February 12, 2025 • 35 mins
Pam Hill and Brian Tucher from Beacon Therapy reveal the transformative power of therapy for seniors, joined by their delightful therapy dog, Hal. Experience firsthand how they create a nurturing space that allows older adults to express their emotions freely, overcoming the stigma of mental health often faced by the elderly. By sharing their compassionate approach, Pam and Brian emphasize the critical role of building trust and friendship to help seniors find renewed purpose and joy even amidst the challenges of aging.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the nuances of supporting older adults' mental health, from the societal perceptions that often undervalue them to the family dynamics essential in offering empathy and understanding. The episode underscores the importance of engaging with seniors in their reality, particularly in navigating conditions like dementia and Alzheimer's. The therapeutic journey of transitioning from despair to ego integrity is explored, highlighting how community and reminiscence can play pivotal roles in this profound transformation.
Discover the heartwarming impact of therapy dogs in the healing process, as Hal's presence brings joy and sparks positive memories for clients. Pam and Brian share personal stories that honor the individuality of their clients, shedding light on their unique lives and contributions. Additionally, we explore the services offered by Beacon Therapy in Taylorsville, Utah, noting its accessibility and the importance of spreading awareness about these vital resources. This episode is a testament to the power of compassionate therapy and the boundless benefits it offers to seniors and their families.
This episode includes the following:
• Discusses the journey into focusing on geriatric therapy
• Explains how therapy dogs enhance emotional expression
• Examines common barriers seniors face regarding mental health
• Describes strategies for family involvement and community building
• Explores grief and loss within the aging population
• Discusses the unique perspectives of aging gracefully
• Highlights the importance of respecting the individuality of seniors
• Offers insights into the future of geriatric mental health treatment
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Senior Care Academy.
Today we are thrilled towelcome some extraordinary
guests Pam Hill and Brian Tucher.
They are highly experiencedtherapists that specialize in
the aging process at BeaconTherapy, with a compassionate
approach, and a unique additionto the sessions that they do is
a therapy dog named Hal.
They have been transforming thelives of seniors by helping
(00:21):
them overcome mental healthchallenges, building emotional
connections and finding arenewed purpose as they age.
Their innovative use of animaltherapy has brought comfort and
joy to countless seniors, and sotoday they'll be talking about
their journey methods andheartwarming stories from the
work that they've done.
Get ready for an inspiring andinsightful conversation about
the intersection of therapy,companionship and unique needs
(00:43):
of the seniors in our community.
Pam and Brian, thanks so muchfor coming on Senior Care
Academy.
I'm excited to talk about whatyou do and the way that you're
helping older adults.
So, yeah, so what inspired youto specialize in therapy?
We were talking a little bitbefore.
You kind of have other optionsof people that you serve, but
primarily the demographic isseniors.
(01:03):
So what inspired that?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
options of people that you serve but primarily the
demographic is seniors.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So what inspired that Go ahead.
So I mean a lot of it startsjust my own background.
I've worked within the hospiceworld and even outside of like
my job specifically, just havealways kind of had a soft spot
for the senior community.
My grandma was my best friendfor a long time.
Yeah, and so then, as Pam joinedmy team, we were originally
(01:28):
just going to be a traditionaloutpatient practice, and she
started talking about some ofher connections with the work
that she's done in the skillednursing and assisted living
world.
That's really kind of whatsparked the idea of us trying to
go in this direction, nichingspecifically with seniors.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I think there is a massive need for seniors within
the, and we'll get intodifferent reasons why, but how
would you say the working withseniors is different than maybe
the approach that you take withworking with other demographics,
younger people?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I think that mostly one of the things we do have to
realize is that they've kind oflost everything that they've
built over their lives.
Now we're taking them andputting them into a nursing home
or into an assisted living, andthey are losing their autonomy
to just be their own person, andso we take an approach more of
building a good relationship,building a friendship with them
(02:25):
and then allowing them to kindof guide the way they really
feel like they need to talk,because sometimes it might be
about a trauma they have in thepast and sometimes it's about
this initial trauma right nowthat's causing them to be there.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
That is interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I think maybe the only thing I'd add with that is
that along with that loss ofindependence there's also a bit
of a mindset around mentalhealth that this particular
generation has, and so that doeskind of shift the way that we
would show up where most of ourpeople were getting like
referred from a third partysaying hey we think so-and-so
(02:59):
could benefit from services andso-and-so maybe is not aware of
that benefit from services.
Yeah and so, and so maybe is notaware of that.
Yeah, yeah, um, where, liketraditional outpatient, they're
calling in, they're wanting thework and so we part of the
reason we take such arelationship focused approach
first is to be able to helpovercome some of that mental
(03:20):
health stigma yeah, I was, I wasgonna bring that up like there
is a big stigma.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I mean my grandpa, all of my grandparents, it's
kind of same idea where it'slike they just grew up in a time
where you know the it's kidsare to be seen and not heard,
and then they raise that andit's like just things a lot of
times get pushed down and nottalked about.
How have you guys found, like,are there any things you've
(03:47):
found that kind of break, thatbarrier that you're able to use?
Or like the maybe their kidsare able to use, to be like?
You know?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I want to talk about some stuff from childhood mom,
you know, as in their lateryears, so I think I'll be honest
, that's still something thatwe're figuring out like a great
way to go about doing that.
I think the first thing is isjust that we get comfortable
talking about what's the presentday stuff first Interesting,
(04:15):
and even just comfortabletalking about.
You know, you can tell me thestory of what happened last week
when your granddaughter came tovisit, but how did that feel?
What was it like?
Yeah, of what happened lastweek when your granddaughter
came to visit, but how did thatfeel?
What was it like?
Just so that we were gettingthem comfortable with language
around emotion, and it can besometimes a week's worth process
(04:36):
of a few sessions at a timebefore we even get to that spot.
Yeah, and a lot of times it'sjust showing up, more so with
the perspective of how a friendwould listen than how, like a
clinician is going to listenright from the beginning.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And I was just going to add.
I think too that it's a hardquestion to answer because
everybody's different.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, some people are like ready to share.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, some people have are a little more reserved
and you have to find the rightspot for them to decide.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
They're ready to open up a little bit, so I think
everybody's different yeah, Ithink the key tactic, potential
tactic that like I pulled fromit, like uh brian said, was like
talk about, let them vent,maybe about the daily, the
struggle they had that day, orlike if it's or like their
political grievances or whatever.
(05:24):
It is just like pause and letthem talk openly and then from
there you can start kind ofprodding in a little bit rather
than being like super deep rightoff the bat.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And that fits just therapy in general.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, that's true.
Are we going to get?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
deep in off the bat, because so much of that work is
just building the goodrelationship with your client
first.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Do you find that there's any sort of like
original barriers, becausethere's, you mentioned at the
beginning, like societalperceptions on aging and there's
a lot of r?
Does it have impacts generallyon the mental health of older
adults, like the way that theyview themselves because of the
(06:09):
way that society views them?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Oh, for sure that's.
I mean, that's just a definiteyes.
Like they, I think that theyjust, we just think we're going
to get sick and old and die andso we should just be quiet and
sit in our rooms and that's whata lot of my clients will tell
me is like my family doesn'twant to hear about.
I don't feel good again, or myfamily doesn't want to see that
I don't have.
You know that, like withMedicaid, I only have a little
(06:32):
bit of money to spend, so theydon't want to get me the things
that I need, and so they justquietly sit and say nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I was actually even thinking
about that this morning how thework that we do really kind of
has a bell curve as far as thework with seniors mirrors a lot
of aspects of the work with,like teenagers or children
Interesting.
But the difference is, I think,that with teenagers or children
it's so easy for us to say,well, they don't have as much
(07:00):
control of their situation, theylike life experience, right,
they don't have as much controlof their situation.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Life experience.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Right, there's not just life experience.
Or they even like we're kind ofwilling to do a little bit more
investment because there's thisfuture ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That could be years worth of time, where, with
seniors, there's theexpectations of they should know
better because they're older,they've been through it, or you
older, they've been through it,or you know they're an adult
like they can take care ofthemselves.
There's this tendency, I think,to be able to write off what
some of the additional needs arefor an adult, and I think
(07:37):
there's a societal bias towardslike do we want to focus on
putting some time and effortinto a situation that's not
going to have a quote unquotepayout?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, It'll have a huge impact on that individual.
But then, if they pass awayfive years later or two years
later, one year later, did itchange anything other than how
they felt about themselves atthe end of the day?
Versus, yeah, that's aninteresting like thing to tackle
.
It's something that people putolder adults I mean, these
people are mom, dad, grandma,grandpa and they built the
(08:10):
society as we know it.
So they are on this pedestal oflike well, they're our elders
we need to respect and they knowbetter and it's like.
But in reality, like you said,it kind of does revert back
where it's like.
No, we actually do.
Sometimes I do need support andbe like we're all figuring this
out, just like.
So I have a toddler and we'repotty training him and we're
figuring out the toilet togetherand it's scary for him, and
(08:31):
it's the same kind.
It's a different dynamic alittle bit, but it's the same
concept, like we're figuring outgetting old together and bodies
not doing what they normally do, and so realizing that and
opening up.
And so realizing that andopening up, are there things
that you've found like how canfamilies play a role in
supporting the mental health oftheir older, their grandma,
grandpa, mom, dad, aunt, uncle?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I think part of it is knowing that.
The one that really sticks tome is that as they start to age
and we start to get like onsetof dementia or Alzheimer's or
any of that direction, isreminding them that we kind of
have to live in their world,with them.
We can't we're not going tochange a perception they have
when that starts to hit.
(09:14):
And that's a lot of the timeswhere I see the some issues when
families start to butt headsover no, that didn't happen.
Or you've been here five yearsand the thinks.
I have a client who thinksshe's only been in a facility
for two weeks and she's beenthere over two years.
But every week she tells meit's just been two weeks.
But to argue that with herevery single week would be
pointless.
(09:35):
It would just be a pointlessconversation, where instead we
focus on so many other thingsfor her.
And I think that's a big onethat family seems to miss
sometimes is just living withthem in their world.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I didn't realize that you canwork with patients that are
going through memory loss.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It's a.
It's a.
Honestly, it's a great areathat we're kind of navigating
what's going to be the mosteffective.
It is a little bit differentthan traditional therapy,
because someone with dementiawe're not going to be teaching
coping skills.
Yeah, we're not going to be,you know, heavily processing
trauma with the intent that,like, we're going to get a new
(10:14):
way of thinking about thesituation.
Yeah, there's.
It's a pretty minimallyresearched area for mental
health.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, it's super.
I'm just like flabbergasted.
It's so interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, some of the things we are finding is how do
we maybe help their?
Their environment is where mostof the change comes from, but
how do we help them maybe bringa system to?
I just blanked on the wordmeaningful activity, right, so
like in a, in a facility, like,quote, unquote giving the person
(10:47):
a job or a role?
Yeah, and it can be like Like,even as simple as like a greeter
.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Right, and they don't have to like be held
accountable for that.
Yeah, it's just a sense ofpurpose that comes with it and
that reminder of like hey, thisis part of your role, you're
helping actually helps boostlevels of mental health.
They find that when there'sthat purposeful activity and
meaningful engagement, thedepression scores and anxiety
(11:15):
scores go down for individualswith dementia Wow, but it's
still pretty early.
The biggest yes, I was figuringit out.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, that's really cool, though, that there's even
investment going into that,because I think that there's so
much life still left to live andmemories with the people around
them that are left to be made.
That are left to be made, andit sounds like the biggest
difference, more than anything,from traditional therapy to
dementia therapy, or helpingthose with dementia, is like
(11:43):
traditional therapy you'rediving super into personal
problems and like how can I getthrough this trauma, how can I
resolve and become better?
And with seniors you're tryingto really, or with those with
dementia, you're trying toreally dive into how they
perceive the world and then goto the people around them and
say let's change the world thisway.
So, rather than internal, it'skind of making an external thing
(12:05):
, that's really cool.
I had no idea.
That's way cool, that kind ofthat exists at all.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, this is this is purely just a Brian thought.
Just as we're finding so muchmore of how, like in trauma,
it's connected to our brain butalso in our body, my guess will
(12:34):
be is that more of the somaticinterventions, like physical and
physiological interventions,that happen for processing
trauma could find a place forindividuals with dementia.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I don't know what that would look like.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's interesting and maybe that's thinking too
far ahead.
But my guess would be, as we'relearning, that just the body is
keeping a lot of thisinformation.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, it stores different.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That I think there's going to be some interventions
there to help process negativeemotion.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So that would look like, you know, finding.
I don't.
I'm not.
I'm not a therapist, so educateme.
But that's like finding, likethis trauma, this deep rooted
trauma is stored in the back orsomething and so it's bringing
in other modalities likeacupuncture or physical therapy
or like other things.
Is that kind of what that means?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I think there's parts of it that are that, um, I'm
really well versed in one mode,that's emdr, which still has a
pretty oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Is that the cognitive component?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
yeah, the eye movement yeah, sensitization and
reprocessing um, but I knowthat there are specific
modalities that are strictlyjust somatic processing um.
I I will not claim to betrained in there, but that's
probably a direction that we'regoing to start looking at just
because I think it potentiallycould have benefit with dementia
.
Again, totally Brian's opinionyes.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
That's where this is.
This is a safe place forBrian's opinions and Pam's.
So how would you?
I guess switching a little bit,I guess maybe not.
It applies for those withdementia and everybody else but
how do you address the feelingsof loneliness or isolation,
because that's probably a bigone that you face.
Like you said, they feel likethey can't open to their family
(14:02):
or their family doesn't care.
I don't want to burden them,which leads to feeling really
lonely if you feel like you'reon an island.
So how do you, once you getthere with a senior, how do you
approach that?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So we do a lot of, I think, for me, when I'm sitting
with my clients, first I try toget to know who they are and
what what would help them.
So some of my clients don'twant to go play bingo and some
of them live to go play bingo.
So it's like, which directionare we going to make sure they
make it to?
So I think it's finding theirown um, their own happy spots
(14:34):
that give them some, a way tofind some, not to not be
isolated, to go out of theirroom, to get some, you know, to
be able to speak up forthemselves.
It's just teaching them thecoping skills, I think, to just
incorporate all of that.
And again, all of them aredifferent, Everybody's different
.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, it's such an interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, I think with a lot of our clients, a lot of our
work is in helping them torealize what is still in their
control.
You know that maybe my childrendon't come and visit me, but it
is in my control to be able topick up the phone and reach out
to my friend that maybe stilllives at home, or I can be.
It's in my control to.
(15:14):
We've had one person who islike learning how to be able to
be online in a stronger capacity, or another person who's
actually a younger clientcompared to most, maybe in their
40s but they enjoy being socialwith video games and they'll
get like their headset.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Just getting the live chat.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Where can they have control of finding a community
that they can connect with,rather than having to focus
beyond what's not in my control,with the community that isn't
showing up?
We'll validate and be presentwith the frustration and
disappointment that comes withthose.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And then we get into that space of what can we do
about it.
Yeah, once a senior connects tothat community because I
imagine there's some legworkthere to like help them realize,
you know, as as disappointingas it is that your built-in
community or the one that youhad isn't doing what you feel
they should be doing um, sogetting past that and realizing
there's other communities, onceyou get there and they're on
board and they plug into, saythat they're just like, are
(16:19):
obsessed with fly fishing andthey found like some Reddit or
something like what, what impactdoes that have on them?
After?
After plugging in like, uh,mentally, emotionally,
physically even maybe.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I think that it gives them a space to feel accepted,
to feel kind of part of a group,and that is going to help with.
I think what it does is ittakes them out of their own head
.
It takes.
It takes less.
It gives them less time to justbe thinking about all the
things that aren't going rightin their lives and start seeing
some things that are positive.
And once we have some positivepoints in our life, it gives us
(16:55):
a better outlook and it growsfrom there, going right in their
lives and start seeing somethings that are positive.
And once we have some positivepoints in our life, it gives us
a better outlook and it growsfrom there.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
I'm curious on.
So something that I like a lotis I'm sure you're both familiar
with, like Eric Erickson, thepsychosocial.
How does that play into it?
Kind of trying to get them outof despair, back into ego,
integrity and everything thatthat entails.
What is?
Is that a focus or, ascommunity, play a role in that,
(17:24):
or what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, well, and even as you asked that question
before of like what impact doesit have?
I think there is a naturaltransitioning of that.
You know we're no longer maybegoing to be able to enjoy the
activity of fly fishing, as youbring that example up.
But do we now gain some benefitin the reminiscence about fly
fishing?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh I like that.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Is there opportunity that we can be able to connect
with others around this thingand be part of this community,
or that we're maybe teachingsomeone younger about this thing
that we enjoyed, that theymight not be as engaged in?
I think that that can be partof helping make that transition
from despair into this egointegrity, because we're
(18:07):
building purpose in the lifethat was lived through that
reminiscence.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, that's really cool, kind of helping them
realize that just becausethey're not doing, because
they're not, you know, racingaround the street on their 85
motorcycle anymore, they canstill be a part of a motorcycle
group and talk about how muchthey loved their whatever model
and stuff and I don't know.
It's.
That's pretty cool to be ableto help them see that, like I
(18:33):
said, getting back into egointegrity, they can take these
seven, eight, nine years,decades of knowledge and wisdom
and start teaching.
And that's making them realizelike holy crap, I think a lot of
the times what happens is they.
You know, life gets just likebombarded and all of the bright
spots get buried with monotonousmonotony or whatever.
(18:53):
And so helping them find thatbright spot and pull it back up
to the top is what we focus alot on, as well as just like
realize that's what's importantand help them feel that, yep, um
, so we have a special guesttoday.
Um, what's his name?
Again?
How, how get, how a littletreat come here, bud.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Hey, uh, come here.
He's like look, how how do yousee what I have?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
see, if you'll, he's what he does, he's content, come
here look, oh, there he is doyou see it come here so how and
so what inspired you toincorporate therapy dogs into
your practice with these olderadults?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
well, hal is our only dog.
He's the only one we have, andI'm a dog lover.
Brian loves cats, but I'mbringing him.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Cats are a little bit more difficult to get them to
emotional on demand.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I have a friend who owns a not for profit where he
puts golden retrievers withtherapists, and he called me and
asked me if I wanted a dog.
And I called Brian and said,can I have a therapy dog?
And he said no.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I mean kind of quickly.
He kind of quickly said no.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Let me think about that so anxious.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Brian kicked in.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
But we, uh, we had some discussion back and forth
and he agreed to let me do it,and so I got Hal when he was
three months old and he prettymuch every day, probably four
out of five days, comes to workwith me and goes to see the
clients and and he is thehighlight of I know there are
some clients who will talk to mewhen I come in laying on their
(20:39):
bed and then when Hal is there,they will sit up and they're
happy to see him.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I was going to ask what like?
What's the?
What impact does that have onthe dynamic of the visits?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It is to me to see.
It is incredible, like therereally are some clients who
don't, who have zero affect totheir voice when they're just
talking to me there's, I feellike they're still getting
something out of our sessions.
I don't want to take my, justtalking to me.
I feel like they're stillgetting something out of our
sessions.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I don't want to take my purpose away from it, I feel
like they still are able toshare.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
But when the dog comes in, they laugh and smile
and love on them and talk abouttheir past animals and I think
it gives them some nice memories, and he's good at giving loves,
so yeah, what does thatvisually look like?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Like I know that as a kid, anytime I had to talk
through something sitting therewas really hard for me.
So we went out and got icecream, or like we'd tinker and
clean dishes or something.
So is it kind of look the samewhere they're?
Just you know petting.
Hal and mine like mindlesslynot mindlessly but kind of out
of focus being able just to talkand open up more.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I think it does help some open up.
I have mentioned that sometimes.
I think sometimes crying ishelpful to us to get some
emotions out, and Hal doesn'twant people to cry.
He will get up and hug them.
So, sometimes I want him to not.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I want him to let them get their emotions out,
stop being such a sweet boy.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
But he is really good at giving the hugs and feeling
people's emotions.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
That's so cool.
Yeah, do you have a coolexperience, maybe where there
was a client, like you said,kind of generally speaking, but
where, like one that you've beengoing to?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
and finally, my client, who I mentioned earlier,
who has the two-week thought inher head, her head she's.
She's not full-blown dementia,she's like onset of dementia.
She's a really good historianabout her life story, just not
the last two years yeah and um,she is the one who lays on her
bed and will just stare at theceiling and tell me everything.
(22:38):
But when hal comes in, she willimmediately sit up, puts her
feet on the ground.
He, he, just gets up and she,just, she, just loves on him and
it's.
It is such a switch of a person.
It's incredible to watch.
But she remembers his name andshe remembers when I got and
she'll tell stories of the firsttime he came in with me, even
though it was six months ago.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
But she thinks it was two weeks ago.
Yeah, yeah, and that's okay.
That's so special.
I just love that.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Just getting people to open up, and it's a creative
way.
Kudos to you, brian and Pam,for being open to it and
convincing me.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Well, the story with Hal actually is kind of a good
representation of just wherewe're going with everything,
because it's you give us creditto say what inspired you to be
able to.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
We don't know, we just say I'm the gas and he's
the brakes.
Yeah, that's fair, so I alwayshave great ideas that I throw
out, and he's like, okay, holdon.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, I have some brakes in my life, some breakers
in my life.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I think overall, though, is that it represents
just like we are committed tothis population.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And we're kind of willing to be able to figure out
what's going to be able to workbest for them, because I think
on the whole mental health wisethey've been a pretty neglected
population, and so that's why,as you ask some of those
questions about what's the bestpractice or what's this, we
fumble a little bit becausethere isn't nearly as much
research around.
(24:12):
How do you do trauma with asenior or someone who maybe does
have dementia, versus how do wedo trauma with a three-year-old
?
How do we do it with an adult?
And I think that kind of tiesin, as you asked that question
before, of like, how doessociety's view of this
population impact the way theyshow up?
I think that view has kind oftrickled into the lack of
(24:36):
research that's been done forworking with this population.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's something that I think is going
to become more and more valuableover the next, like as baby
boomers that are a little bitmore open to these things
compared to like the silentgeneration and stuff, really
hopefully getting more research.
And then you guys potentiallyleading you guess a different
(25:03):
question, I think a lot of thetime.
So some stuff in my childhood Ihad to go to like grief therapy
, to kind of work through grief.
How does, how do you helpseniors navigate grief and loss,
whether it's a spouse or alifelong friend, and is it like
different than younger people?
Or is it basically the samepremise Because it's I or a
lifelong friend, and is it likedifferent than, um, younger
(25:24):
people?
Or is it basically the samepremise because it's, I don't
know, like you said, the youngerpeople they had that same with,
just like it's society worthhelping the younger people
because they have this potential?
Is grief different for youngerpeople because they had the
potential of the life, therelationship when somebody
passes, or something like that?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
yeah, so I.
So I guess because a lot of mywork has been grief-related even
before we started workingspecifically with seniors, and I
think for the individualexperiencing grief, it actually
is going to look pretty similar.
I think sometimes and thisisn't maybe even the most fair
(26:04):
statement to make but I do thinkthere are differences between
whether it's like a young personwho has lost it then makes
grief for the remaining people,like a parent or others, like
there is that component of thelife that was lost.
On the flip side of that, Ithink for an older person who's
(26:25):
lost a spouse, a lot of theirgrief is my world is now
completely different.
I've had 40 years of my lifebeing the two of us together as
a combination.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And now I have to navigate, doing this by myself,
and so I think that's part ofthe unique aspect with a lot of
our elderly population isreinventing or redefining what
life is like as a single person.
They've spent probably moretime in a couple than as an
individual, and that's a biglearning curve, especially in
(26:59):
the time when your body's alsodeclining as well, so it's not
like I'm an individual and now Ican go out skydiving do all the
activities I wanted to do.
It's now.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I'm an individual and I'm kind of stuck yeah, that is
really unique where it's lessof grief of the life that could
have been or the potential, it'sthe grief of the life that had
been and not having that anymore.
Yeah, that's super interesting,um, where this time has flown,
because I find this incrediblyinteresting.
But, um the last few questions,how would you define aging,
(27:34):
gracefully, as far as thecontext of mental health?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
hmm, I think that's such a great question, and my
background actually before Iworked with Brian, I came from
aging services and that was kindof one of the components we
really focused on was aginggracefully, and one of the big
things was what does that looklike to the person Like?
What does aging gracefully looklike?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Was it mean?
It sounds really cool, but it'skind of amorphous.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
But to each person it's going to be so differently,
because some people don't wantto go to a nursing home or an
assisted living.
They want to age in their homeand be able to live their life
out there.
Maybe they live there for 45,50 years with their spouse and
that's their home.
Some people are like I can't dothis on my own and they don't
want to have the fire departmentshow up to get them off the
(28:23):
ground or people to show up todo everything for them and we're
moving into an assisted livingfeels a little safer and feels
more graceful to them.
And so I think that's thebiggest part of it is that we
lump them all into this bigcategory, our aging population,
but they're all so different andjust hearing their stories and
(28:43):
seeing who they were in their30s and 40s I think that's how
you help them age gracefully,Because you have.
I have a client who's amotorcycle guy.
He's going to be a differentperson when he's 80 than
somebody who is a.
You know, I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
A retired nurse or something.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, they're such different lifestyles that aging
gracefully to them is going tobe so different.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, yeah.
They just they're suchdifferent lifestyles that aging
gracefully to them is going tobe so different.
Ego, integrity, whatever.
That means getting them therephysically with their
environment, mentally with whatthey're doing, you know,
(29:31):
socially with their community,just all around.
What gets them back intointegrity with the life that
they feel they lived and andthat's really insightful and
just taking the time that ittakes to get down to what does.
What is that life and how do webring it to the surface?
So I love that.
Um, what, um.
If you could this is a lastquestion on this but, um, if you
(29:54):
could share one lesson thatyou've learned from your senior
clients about their, about theworld, and summarize it in one
word, what would that word be?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's going to be a hyphenated word Perfect Like
respected individuality, and Iguess by that, if I can explain,
yes, please.
For me I think back to when Iwas like 12 or 13 and I would
have to like, have to, in quotesgo visit some of my neighbors
(30:26):
or visit someone who was older,and in my mind I put this
category of just the elderly.
Yeah, totally and for a longtime it was anybody who I
visually saw in this categoryjust fit Like I kind of I'll be
open I kind of saw them as maybeless competent, less to be able
to provide or offer a littlebit of a burden, right Like I
(30:51):
had this preconception in mymind of, like aging, that's just
this group.
But in working with thesepeople it's helped me to be able
to see like they have an entireindividual life that they've
lived and there's no matter howthey're showing up, no matter
what their mental health orcognition level is with dementia
, there's a degree of benefitsthat's going to come for my life
(31:13):
as I interact with them, and soI think that's where I have to
make sure to respect theindividuality of them rather
than keep them in that lumped upgroup.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, I love that.
Res Respect to individuality.
Yep, do you have a differentanswer?
No, I like his answer.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
It's so true.
I, when he was saying it, I wasthinking about I think we all
have those pre-judgment momentsright.
We all need them when you're akid, you're like thinking
through all my clients and Ifound it interesting because I
(31:49):
have one client you do, youtreat them all with such
individuality.
I have one client who has.
She hugs me at the end of everysession and she has some
cognitive disabilities and I'mnot a hugger.
I'm not a big hugger, so, but IUnless it's Hal.
Well, yes, I a big hugger.
So but I, unless it's.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Hal.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, yes, I'll hug her every time and she gives the
best hugs and it's just thesweetest thing.
And and if I don't hug her likethen when I'm leaving the
building and she'll see me andshe'll be like you have to give
me my hug and it's just, it'sjust, it is.
It's such individual, like youjust take those individual
moments and really work throughon my and it's pretty great.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, I love that.
Um, wrapping up beacon therapywho should?
Who's like your ideal person?
If anybody wanted to, at theend of this, work with you or,
uh, be a client of yours or areferral partner, who's that?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Our focus right now is really it's anybody who's
connected to or experiencing theaging process, so that can be
the individual themselves andnavigating their loss of
independence and mobility.
It can be the adult caregiverthat's a child who is struggling
with managing with mom or dadwith dementia, or even people
(32:59):
who work in facilities that arefeeling burnout and that they're
struggling with just being ableto keep their best face.
On working with this group, wethat's our focus as anybody
who's connected to thatexperience of of aging and
decline.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
That's awesome, helping the whole circle of all
the people that are in the partof part of the aging process.
I like that.
Um, how do they find you?
Where should they go?
Who should they contact?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, so our website is Beacon Therapy UT it's like
Beacon Therapy Utah, but justshortened UT Dot com and they
can be able to find us there.
For we do like generaloutpatient services if people
are mobile and can be able toget out.
But then we also do in-homevisits for people who are
(33:48):
homebound or like for thecaregivers who can't find a
sitter for their parent.
We can go in.
So beacontherapyutcom, ourphysical office is out of
Taylorsville, just off RedwoodRoad, so pretty accessible.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
That's why I recognize the name.
I live in Taylorsville.
Sorry, I just connected thatdot, but I was like I feel like
I've heard this before.
Yes, I live right there.
I've probably seen you.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And our main phone number as well, if they wanted
to be able to call in, is801-742-5851.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yep, and then I think our main source of referrals
come from just about anybody.
We've done a lot of work withthe facilities themselves case
management, some of the homehealthcare agencies or home
agencies.
We get quite a bit from allover the place, which has been
great which has been nice to getout and do some of that and
(34:44):
meet new people, to just get ourname out there.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, I can't recommend youguys enough.
This conversation was reallygreat and insightful.
It was interesting to learnabout this resource and I think
it's an education thing.
Most people don't know thatthis resource is there, so,
hopefully, just keep on keepingon, and it'd be cool to see the
research that comes over thenext five years, especially as
(35:09):
you guys are focusing on it.
So thanks again for coming in.
Welcome back to Senior Care Academy.
Today we are thrilled towelcome some extraordinary
guests Pam Hill and Brian Tucher.
They are highly experiencedtherapists that specialize in
the aging process at BeaconTherapy, with a compassionate
approach, and a unique additionto the sessions that they do is
a therapy dog named Hal.
They have been transforming thelives of seniors by helping
(00:21):
them overcome mental healthchallenges, building emotional
connections and finding arenewed purpose as they age.
Their innovative use of animaltherapy has brought comfort and
joy to countless seniors, and sotoday they'll be talking about
their journey methods andheartwarming stories from the
work that they've done.
Get ready for an inspiring andinsightful conversation about
the intersection of therapy,companionship and unique needs
(00:43):
of the seniors in our community.
Pam and Brian, thanks so muchfor coming on Senior Care
Academy.
I'm excited to talk about whatyou do and the way that you're
helping older adults.
So, yeah, so what inspired youto specialize in therapy?
We were talking a little bitbefore.
You kind of have other optionsof people that you serve, but
primarily the demographic isseniors.
(01:03):
So what inspired that?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
options of people that you serve but primarily the
demographic is seniors.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So what inspired that Go ahead.
So I mean a lot of it startsjust my own background.
I've worked within the hospiceworld and even outside of like
my job specifically, just havealways kind of had a soft spot
for the senior community.
My grandma was my best friendfor a long time.
Yeah, and so then, as Pam joinedmy team, we were originally
(01:28):
just going to be a traditionaloutpatient practice, and she
started talking about some ofher connections with the work
that she's done in the skillednursing and assisted living
world.
That's really kind of whatsparked the idea of us trying to
go in this direction, nichingspecifically with seniors.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I think there is a massive need for seniors within
the, and we'll get intodifferent reasons why, but how
would you say the working withseniors is different than maybe
the approach that you take withworking with other demographics,
younger people?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I think that mostly one of the things we do have to
realize is that they've kind oflost everything that they've
built over their lives.
Now we're taking them andputting them into a nursing home
or into an assisted living, andthey are losing their autonomy
to just be their own person, andso we take an approach more of
building a good relationship,building a friendship with them
(02:25):
and then allowing them to kindof guide the way they really
feel like they need to talk,because sometimes it might be
about a trauma they have in thepast and sometimes it's about
this initial trauma right nowthat's causing them to be there.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
That is interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I think maybe the only thing I'd add with that is
that along with that loss ofindependence there's also a bit
of a mindset around mentalhealth that this particular
generation has, and so that doeskind of shift the way that we
would show up where most of ourpeople were getting like
referred from a third partysaying hey we think so-and-so
(02:59):
could benefit from services andso-and-so maybe is not aware of
that benefit from services.
Yeah and so, and so maybe is notaware of that.
Yeah, yeah, um, where, liketraditional outpatient, they're
calling in, they're wanting thework and so we part of the
reason we take such arelationship focused approach
first is to be able to helpovercome some of that mental
(03:20):
health stigma yeah, I was, I wasgonna bring that up like there
is a big stigma.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I mean my grandpa, all of my grandparents, it's
kind of same idea where it'slike they just grew up in a time
where you know the it's kidsare to be seen and not heard,
and then they raise that andit's like just things a lot of
times get pushed down and nottalked about.
How have you guys found, like,are there any things you've
(03:47):
found that kind of break, thatbarrier that you're able to use?
Or like the maybe their kidsare able to use, to be like?
You know?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I want to talk about some stuff from childhood mom,
you know, as in their lateryears, so I think I'll be honest
, that's still something thatwe're figuring out like a great
way to go about doing that.
I think the first thing is isjust that we get comfortable
talking about what's the presentday stuff first Interesting,
(04:15):
and even just comfortabletalking about.
You know, you can tell me thestory of what happened last week
when your granddaughter came tovisit, but how did that feel?
What was it like?
Yeah, of what happened lastweek when your granddaughter
came to visit, but how did thatfeel?
What was it like?
Just so that we were gettingthem comfortable with language
around emotion, and it can besometimes a week's worth process
(04:36):
of a few sessions at a timebefore we even get to that spot.
Yeah, and a lot of times it'sjust showing up, more so with
the perspective of how a friendwould listen than how, like a
clinician is going to listenright from the beginning.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And I was just going to add.
I think too that it's a hardquestion to answer because
everybody's different.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, some people are like ready to share.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, some people have are a little more reserved
and you have to find the rightspot for them to decide.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
They're ready to open up a little bit, so I think
everybody's different yeah, Ithink the key tactic, potential
tactic that like I pulled fromit, like uh brian said, was like
talk about, let them vent,maybe about the daily, the
struggle they had that day, orlike if it's or like their
political grievances or whatever.
(05:24):
It is just like pause and letthem talk openly and then from
there you can start kind ofprodding in a little bit rather
than being like super deep rightoff the bat.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And that fits just therapy in general.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, that's true.
Are we going to get?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
deep in off the bat, because so much of that work is
just building the goodrelationship with your client
first.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Do you find that there's any sort of like
original barriers, becausethere's, you mentioned at the
beginning, like societalperceptions on aging and there's
a lot of r?
Does it have impacts generallyon the mental health of older
adults, like the way that theyview themselves because of the
(06:09):
way that society views them?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Oh, for sure that's.
I mean, that's just a definiteyes.
Like they, I think that theyjust, we just think we're going
to get sick and old and die andso we should just be quiet and
sit in our rooms and that's whata lot of my clients will tell
me is like my family doesn'twant to hear about.
I don't feel good again, or myfamily doesn't want to see that
I don't have.
You know that, like withMedicaid, I only have a little
(06:32):
bit of money to spend, so theydon't want to get me the things
that I need, and so they justquietly sit and say nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I was actually even thinking
about that this morning how thework that we do really kind of
has a bell curve as far as thework with seniors mirrors a lot
of aspects of the work with,like teenagers or children
Interesting.
But the difference is, I think,that with teenagers or children
it's so easy for us to say,well, they don't have as much
(07:00):
control of their situation, theylike life experience, right,
they don't have as much controlof their situation.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Life experience.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Right, there's not just life experience.
Or they even like we're kind ofwilling to do a little bit more
investment because there's thisfuture ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That could be years worth of time, where, with
seniors, there's theexpectations of they should know
better because they're older,they've been through it, or you
older, they've been through it,or you know they're an adult
like they can take care ofthemselves.
There's this tendency, I think,to be able to write off what
some of the additional needs arefor an adult, and I think
(07:37):
there's a societal bias towardslike do we want to focus on
putting some time and effortinto a situation that's not
going to have a quote unquotepayout?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, It'll have a huge impact on that individual.
But then, if they pass awayfive years later or two years
later, one year later, did itchange anything other than how
they felt about themselves atthe end of the day?
Versus, yeah, that's aninteresting like thing to tackle
.
It's something that people putolder adults I mean, these
people are mom, dad, grandma,grandpa and they built the
(08:10):
society as we know it.
So they are on this pedestal oflike well, they're our elders
we need to respect and they knowbetter and it's like.
But in reality, like you said,it kind of does revert back
where it's like.
No, we actually do.
Sometimes I do need support andbe like we're all figuring this
out, just like.
So I have a toddler and we'repotty training him and we're
figuring out the toilet togetherand it's scary for him, and
(08:31):
it's the same kind.
It's a different dynamic alittle bit, but it's the same
concept, like we're figuring outgetting old together and bodies
not doing what they normally do, and so realizing that and
opening up.
And so realizing that andopening up, are there things
that you've found like how canfamilies play a role in
supporting the mental health oftheir older, their grandma,
grandpa, mom, dad, aunt, uncle?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I think part of it is knowing that.
The one that really sticks tome is that as they start to age
and we start to get like onsetof dementia or Alzheimer's or
any of that direction, isreminding them that we kind of
have to live in their world,with them.
We can't we're not going tochange a perception they have
when that starts to hit.
(09:14):
And that's a lot of the timeswhere I see the some issues when
families start to butt headsover no, that didn't happen.
Or you've been here five yearsand the thinks.
I have a client who thinksshe's only been in a facility
for two weeks and she's beenthere over two years.
But every week she tells meit's just been two weeks.
But to argue that with herevery single week would be
pointless.
(09:35):
It would just be a pointlessconversation, where instead we
focus on so many other thingsfor her.
And I think that's a big onethat family seems to miss
sometimes is just living withthem in their world.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I didn't realize that you canwork with patients that are
going through memory loss.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It's a.
It's a.
Honestly, it's a great areathat we're kind of navigating
what's going to be the mosteffective.
It is a little bit differentthan traditional therapy,
because someone with dementiawe're not going to be teaching
coping skills.
Yeah, we're not going to be,you know, heavily processing
trauma with the intent that,like, we're going to get a new
(10:14):
way of thinking about thesituation.
Yeah, there's.
It's a pretty minimallyresearched area for mental
health.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, it's super.
I'm just like flabbergasted.
It's so interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, some of the things we are finding is how do
we maybe help their?
Their environment is where mostof the change comes from, but
how do we help them maybe bringa system to?
I just blanked on the wordmeaningful activity, right, so
like in a, in a facility, like,quote, unquote giving the person
(10:47):
a job or a role?
Yeah, and it can be like Like,even as simple as like a greeter
.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Right, and they don't have to like be held
accountable for that.
Yeah, it's just a sense ofpurpose that comes with it and
that reminder of like hey, thisis part of your role, you're
helping actually helps boostlevels of mental health.
They find that when there'sthat purposeful activity and
meaningful engagement, thedepression scores and anxiety
(11:15):
scores go down for individualswith dementia Wow, but it's
still pretty early.
The biggest yes, I was figuringit out.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, that's really cool, though, that there's even
investment going into that,because I think that there's so
much life still left to live andmemories with the people around
them that are left to be made.
That are left to be made, andit sounds like the biggest
difference, more than anything,from traditional therapy to
dementia therapy, or helpingthose with dementia, is like
(11:43):
traditional therapy you'rediving super into personal
problems and like how can I getthrough this trauma, how can I
resolve and become better?
And with seniors you're tryingto really, or with those with
dementia, you're trying toreally dive into how they
perceive the world and then goto the people around them and
say let's change the world thisway.
So, rather than internal, it'skind of making an external thing
(12:05):
, that's really cool.
I had no idea.
That's way cool, that kind ofthat exists at all.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, this is this is purely just a Brian thought.
Just as we're finding so muchmore of how, like in trauma,
it's connected to our brain butalso in our body, my guess will
(12:34):
be is that more of the somaticinterventions, like physical and
physiological interventions,that happen for processing
trauma could find a place forindividuals with dementia.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I don't know what that would look like.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's interesting and maybe that's thinking too
far ahead.
But my guess would be, as we'relearning, that just the body is
keeping a lot of thisinformation.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, it stores different.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That I think there's going to be some interventions
there to help process negativeemotion.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So that would look like, you know, finding.
I don't.
I'm not.
I'm not a therapist, so educateme.
But that's like finding, likethis trauma, this deep rooted
trauma is stored in the back orsomething and so it's bringing
in other modalities likeacupuncture or physical therapy
or like other things.
Is that kind of what that means?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I think there's parts of it that are that, um, I'm
really well versed in one mode,that's emdr, which still has a
pretty oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Is that the cognitive component?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
yeah, the eye movement yeah, sensitization and
reprocessing um, but I knowthat there are specific
modalities that are strictlyjust somatic processing um.
I I will not claim to betrained in there, but that's
probably a direction that we'regoing to start looking at just
because I think it potentiallycould have benefit with dementia
.
Again, totally Brian's opinionyes.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
That's where this is.
This is a safe place forBrian's opinions and Pam's.
So how would you?
I guess switching a little bit,I guess maybe not.
It applies for those withdementia and everybody else but
how do you address the feelingsof loneliness or isolation,
because that's probably a bigone that you face.
Like you said, they feel likethey can't open to their family
(14:02):
or their family doesn't care.
I don't want to burden them,which leads to feeling really
lonely if you feel like you'reon an island.
So how do you, once you getthere with a senior, how do you
approach that?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So we do a lot of, I think, for me, when I'm sitting
with my clients, first I try toget to know who they are and
what what would help them.
So some of my clients don'twant to go play bingo and some
of them live to go play bingo.
So it's like, which directionare we going to make sure they
make it to?
So I think it's finding theirown um, their own happy spots
(14:34):
that give them some, a way tofind some, not to not be
isolated, to go out of theirroom, to get some, you know, to
be able to speak up forthemselves.
It's just teaching them thecoping skills, I think, to just
incorporate all of that.
And again, all of them aredifferent, Everybody's different
.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, it's such an interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, I think with a lot of our clients, a lot of our
work is in helping them torealize what is still in their
control.
You know that maybe my childrendon't come and visit me, but it
is in my control to be able topick up the phone and reach out
to my friend that maybe stilllives at home, or I can be.
It's in my control to.
(15:14):
We've had one person who islike learning how to be able to
be online in a stronger capacity, or another person who's
actually a younger clientcompared to most, maybe in their
40s but they enjoy being socialwith video games and they'll
get like their headset.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Just getting the live chat.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Where can they have control of finding a community
that they can connect with,rather than having to focus
beyond what's not in my control,with the community that isn't
showing up?
We'll validate and be presentwith the frustration and
disappointment that comes withthose.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And then we get into that space of what can we do
about it.
Yeah, once a senior connects tothat community because I
imagine there's some legworkthere to like help them realize,
you know, as as disappointingas it is that your built-in
community or the one that youhad isn't doing what you feel
they should be doing um, sogetting past that and realizing
there's other communities, onceyou get there and they're on
board and they plug into, saythat they're just like, are
(16:19):
obsessed with fly fishing andthey found like some Reddit or
something like what, what impactdoes that have on them?
After?
After plugging in like, uh,mentally, emotionally,
physically even maybe.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I think that it gives them a space to feel accepted,
to feel kind of part of a group,and that is going to help with.
I think what it does is ittakes them out of their own head
.
It takes.
It takes less.
It gives them less time to justbe thinking about all the
things that aren't going rightin their lives and start seeing
some things that are positive.
And once we have some positivepoints in our life, it gives us
(16:55):
a better outlook and it growsfrom there, going right in their
lives and start seeing somethings that are positive.
And once we have some positivepoints in our life, it gives us
a better outlook and it growsfrom there.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
I'm curious on.
So something that I like a lotis I'm sure you're both familiar
with, like Eric Erickson, thepsychosocial.
How does that play into it?
Kind of trying to get them outof despair, back into ego,
integrity and everything thatthat entails.
What is?
Is that a focus or, ascommunity, play a role in that,
(17:24):
or what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, well, and even as you asked that question
before of like what impact doesit have?
I think there is a naturaltransitioning of that.
You know we're no longer maybegoing to be able to enjoy the
activity of fly fishing, as youbring that example up.
But do we now gain some benefitin the reminiscence about fly
fishing?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh I like that.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Is there opportunity that we can be able to connect
with others around this thingand be part of this community,
or that we're maybe teachingsomeone younger about this thing
that we enjoyed, that theymight not be as engaged in?
I think that that can be partof helping make that transition
from despair into this egointegrity, because we're
(18:07):
building purpose in the lifethat was lived through that
reminiscence.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, that's really cool, kind of helping them
realize that just becausethey're not doing, because
they're not, you know, racingaround the street on their 85
motorcycle anymore, they canstill be a part of a motorcycle
group and talk about how muchthey loved their whatever model
and stuff and I don't know.
It's.
That's pretty cool to be ableto help them see that, like I
(18:33):
said, getting back into egointegrity, they can take these
seven, eight, nine years,decades of knowledge and wisdom
and start teaching.
And that's making them realizelike holy crap, I think a lot of
the times what happens is they.
You know, life gets just likebombarded and all of the bright
spots get buried with monotonousmonotony or whatever.
(18:53):
And so helping them find thatbright spot and pull it back up
to the top is what we focus alot on, as well as just like
realize that's what's importantand help them feel that, yep, um
, so we have a special guesttoday.
Um, what's his name?
Again?
How, how get, how a littletreat come here, bud.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Hey, uh, come here.
He's like look, how how do yousee what I have?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
see, if you'll, he's what he does, he's content, come
here look, oh, there he is doyou see it come here so how and
so what inspired you toincorporate therapy dogs into
your practice with these olderadults?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
well, hal is our only dog.
He's the only one we have, andI'm a dog lover.
Brian loves cats, but I'mbringing him.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Cats are a little bit more difficult to get them to
emotional on demand.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I have a friend who owns a not for profit where he
puts golden retrievers withtherapists, and he called me and
asked me if I wanted a dog.
And I called Brian and said,can I have a therapy dog?
And he said no.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I mean kind of quickly.
He kind of quickly said no.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Let me think about that so anxious.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Brian kicked in.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
But we, uh, we had some discussion back and forth
and he agreed to let me do it,and so I got Hal when he was
three months old and he prettymuch every day, probably four
out of five days, comes to workwith me and goes to see the
clients and and he is thehighlight of I know there are
some clients who will talk to mewhen I come in laying on their
(20:39):
bed and then when Hal is there,they will sit up and they're
happy to see him.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I was going to ask what like?
What's the?
What impact does that have onthe dynamic of the visits?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It is to me to see.
It is incredible, like therereally are some clients who
don't, who have zero affect totheir voice when they're just
talking to me there's, I feellike they're still getting
something out of our sessions.
I don't want to take my, justtalking to me.
I feel like they're stillgetting something out of our
sessions.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I don't want to take my purpose away from it, I feel
like they still are able toshare.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
But when the dog comes in, they laugh and smile
and love on them and talk abouttheir past animals and I think
it gives them some nice memories, and he's good at giving loves,
so yeah, what does thatvisually look like?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Like I know that as a kid, anytime I had to talk
through something sitting therewas really hard for me.
So we went out and got icecream, or like we'd tinker and
clean dishes or something.
So is it kind of look the samewhere they're?
Just you know petting.
Hal and mine like mindlesslynot mindlessly but kind of out
of focus being able just to talkand open up more.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I think it does help some open up.
I have mentioned that sometimes.
I think sometimes crying ishelpful to us to get some
emotions out, and Hal doesn'twant people to cry.
He will get up and hug them.
So, sometimes I want him to not.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I want him to let them get their emotions out,
stop being such a sweet boy.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
But he is really good at giving the hugs and feeling
people's emotions.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
That's so cool.
Yeah, do you have a coolexperience, maybe where there
was a client, like you said,kind of generally speaking, but
where, like one that you've beengoing to?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
and finally, my client, who I mentioned earlier,
who has the two-week thought inher head, her head she's.
She's not full-blown dementia,she's like onset of dementia.
She's a really good historianabout her life story, just not
the last two years yeah and um,she is the one who lays on her
bed and will just stare at theceiling and tell me everything.
(22:38):
But when hal comes in, she willimmediately sit up, puts her
feet on the ground.
He, he, just gets up and she,just, she, just loves on him and
it's.
It is such a switch of a person.
It's incredible to watch.
But she remembers his name andshe remembers when I got and
she'll tell stories of the firsttime he came in with me, even
though it was six months ago.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
But she thinks it was two weeks ago.
Yeah, yeah, and that's okay.
That's so special.
I just love that.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Just getting people to open up, and it's a creative
way.
Kudos to you, brian and Pam,for being open to it and
convincing me.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Well, the story with Hal actually is kind of a good
representation of just wherewe're going with everything,
because it's you give us creditto say what inspired you to be
able to.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
We don't know, we just say I'm the gas and he's
the brakes.
Yeah, that's fair, so I alwayshave great ideas that I throw
out, and he's like, okay, holdon.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, I have some brakes in my life, some breakers
in my life.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I think overall, though, is that it represents
just like we are committed tothis population.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And we're kind of willing to be able to figure out
what's going to be able to workbest for them, because I think
on the whole mental health wisethey've been a pretty neglected
population, and so that's why,as you ask some of those
questions about what's the bestpractice or what's this, we
fumble a little bit becausethere isn't nearly as much
research around.
(24:12):
How do you do trauma with asenior or someone who maybe does
have dementia, versus how do wedo trauma with a three-year-old
?
How do we do it with an adult?
And I think that kind of tiesin, as you asked that question
before, of like, how doessociety's view of this
population impact the way theyshow up?
I think that view has kind oftrickled into the lack of
(24:36):
research that's been done forworking with this population.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's something that I think is going
to become more and more valuableover the next, like as baby
boomers that are a little bitmore open to these things
compared to like the silentgeneration and stuff, really
hopefully getting more research.
And then you guys potentiallyleading you guess a different
(25:03):
question, I think a lot of thetime.
So some stuff in my childhood Ihad to go to like grief therapy
, to kind of work through grief.
How does, how do you helpseniors navigate grief and loss,
whether it's a spouse or alifelong friend, and is it like
different than younger people?
Or is it basically the samepremise Because it's I or a
lifelong friend, and is it likedifferent than, um, younger
(25:24):
people?
Or is it basically the samepremise because it's, I don't
know, like you said, the youngerpeople they had that same with,
just like it's society worthhelping the younger people
because they have this potential?
Is grief different for youngerpeople because they had the
potential of the life, therelationship when somebody
passes, or something like that?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
yeah, so I.
So I guess because a lot of mywork has been grief-related even
before we started workingspecifically with seniors, and I
think for the individualexperiencing grief, it actually
is going to look pretty similar.
I think sometimes and thisisn't maybe even the most fair
(26:04):
statement to make but I do thinkthere are differences between
whether it's like a young personwho has lost it then makes
grief for the remaining people,like a parent or others, like
there is that component of thelife that was lost.
On the flip side of that, Ithink for an older person who's
(26:25):
lost a spouse, a lot of theirgrief is my world is now
completely different.
I've had 40 years of my lifebeing the two of us together as
a combination.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And now I have to navigate, doing this by myself,
and so I think that's part ofthe unique aspect with a lot of
our elderly population isreinventing or redefining what
life is like as a single person.
They've spent probably moretime in a couple than as an
individual, and that's a biglearning curve, especially in
(26:59):
the time when your body's alsodeclining as well, so it's not
like I'm an individual and now Ican go out skydiving do all the
activities I wanted to do.
It's now.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I'm an individual and I'm kind of stuck yeah, that is
really unique where it's lessof grief of the life that could
have been or the potential, it'sthe grief of the life that had
been and not having that anymore.
Yeah, that's super interesting,um, where this time has flown,
because I find this incrediblyinteresting.
But, um the last few questions,how would you define aging,
(27:34):
gracefully, as far as thecontext of mental health?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
hmm, I think that's such a great question, and my
background actually before Iworked with Brian, I came from
aging services and that was kindof one of the components we
really focused on was aginggracefully, and one of the big
things was what does that looklike to the person Like?
What does aging gracefully looklike?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Was it mean?
It sounds really cool, but it'skind of amorphous.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
But to each person it's going to be so differently,
because some people don't wantto go to a nursing home or an
assisted living.
They want to age in their homeand be able to live their life
out there.
Maybe they live there for 45,50 years with their spouse and
that's their home.
Some people are like I can't dothis on my own and they don't
want to have the fire departmentshow up to get them off the
(28:23):
ground or people to show up todo everything for them and we're
moving into an assisted livingfeels a little safer and feels
more graceful to them.
And so I think that's thebiggest part of it is that we
lump them all into this bigcategory, our aging population,
but they're all so different andjust hearing their stories and
(28:43):
seeing who they were in their30s and 40s I think that's how
you help them age gracefully,Because you have.
I have a client who's amotorcycle guy.
He's going to be a differentperson when he's 80 than
somebody who is a.
You know, I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
A retired nurse or something.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, they're such different lifestyles that aging
gracefully to them is going tobe so different.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, yeah.
They just they're suchdifferent lifestyles that aging
gracefully to them is going tobe so different.
Ego, integrity, whatever.
That means getting them therephysically with their
environment, mentally with whatthey're doing, you know,
(29:31):
socially with their community,just all around.
What gets them back intointegrity with the life that
they feel they lived and andthat's really insightful and
just taking the time that ittakes to get down to what does.
What is that life and how do webring it to the surface?
So I love that.
Um, what, um.
If you could this is a lastquestion on this but, um, if you
(29:54):
could share one lesson thatyou've learned from your senior
clients about their, about theworld, and summarize it in one
word, what would that word be?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's going to be a hyphenated word Perfect Like
respected individuality, and Iguess by that, if I can explain,
yes, please.
For me I think back to when Iwas like 12 or 13 and I would
have to like, have to, in quotesgo visit some of my neighbors
(30:26):
or visit someone who was older,and in my mind I put this
category of just the elderly.
Yeah, totally and for a longtime it was anybody who I
visually saw in this categoryjust fit Like I kind of I'll be
open I kind of saw them as maybeless competent, less to be able
to provide or offer a littlebit of a burden, right Like I
(30:51):
had this preconception in mymind of, like aging, that's just
this group.
But in working with thesepeople it's helped me to be able
to see like they have an entireindividual life that they've
lived and there's no matter howthey're showing up, no matter
what their mental health orcognition level is with dementia
, there's a degree of benefitsthat's going to come for my life
(31:13):
as I interact with them, and soI think that's where I have to
make sure to respect theindividuality of them rather
than keep them in that lumped upgroup.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, I love that.
Res Respect to individuality.
Yep, do you have a differentanswer?
No, I like his answer.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
It's so true.
I, when he was saying it, I wasthinking about I think we all
have those pre-judgment momentsright.
We all need them when you're akid, you're like thinking
through all my clients and Ifound it interesting because I
(31:49):
have one client you do, youtreat them all with such
individuality.
I have one client who has.
She hugs me at the end of everysession and she has some
cognitive disabilities and I'mnot a hugger.
I'm not a big hugger, so, but IUnless it's Hal.
Well, yes, I a big hugger.
So but I, unless it's.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Hal.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, yes, I'll hug her every time and she gives the
best hugs and it's just thesweetest thing.
And and if I don't hug her likethen when I'm leaving the
building and she'll see me andshe'll be like you have to give
me my hug and it's just, it'sjust, it is.
It's such individual, like youjust take those individual
moments and really work throughon my and it's pretty great.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, I love that.
Um, wrapping up beacon therapywho should?
Who's like your ideal person?
If anybody wanted to, at theend of this, work with you or,
uh, be a client of yours or areferral partner, who's that?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Our focus right now is really it's anybody who's
connected to or experiencing theaging process, so that can be
the individual themselves andnavigating their loss of
independence and mobility.
It can be the adult caregiverthat's a child who is struggling
with managing with mom or dadwith dementia, or even people
(32:59):
who work in facilities that arefeeling burnout and that they're
struggling with just being ableto keep their best face.
On working with this group, wethat's our focus as anybody
who's connected to thatexperience of of aging and
decline.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
That's awesome, helping the whole circle of all
the people that are in the partof part of the aging process.
I like that.
Um, how do they find you?
Where should they go?
Who should they contact?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, so our website is Beacon Therapy UT it's like
Beacon Therapy Utah, but justshortened UT Dot com and they
can be able to find us there.
For we do like generaloutpatient services if people
are mobile and can be able toget out.
But then we also do in-homevisits for people who are
(33:48):
homebound or like for thecaregivers who can't find a
sitter for their parent.
We can go in.
So beacontherapyutcom, ourphysical office is out of
Taylorsville, just off RedwoodRoad, so pretty accessible.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
That's why I recognize the name.
I live in Taylorsville.
Sorry, I just connected thatdot, but I was like I feel like
I've heard this before.
Yes, I live right there.
I've probably seen you.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And our main phone number as well, if they wanted
to be able to call in, is801-742-5851.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yep, and then I think our main source of referrals
come from just about anybody.
We've done a lot of work withthe facilities themselves case
management, some of the homehealthcare agencies or home
agencies.
We get quite a bit from allover the place, which has been
great which has been nice to getout and do some of that and
(34:44):
meet new people, to just get ourname out there.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, I can't recommend youguys enough.
This conversation was reallygreat and insightful.
It was interesting to learnabout this resource and I think
it's an education thing.
Most people don't know thatthis resource is there, so,
hopefully, just keep on keepingon, and it'd be cool to see the
research that comes over thenext five years, especially as
(35:09):
you guys are focusing on it.
So thanks again for coming in.
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