August 20, 2025 • 29 mins
The walls between generations seem to grow taller each year. Teenagers roll their eyes at grandparents who "just don't get it," while seniors shake their heads at youth who "don't care enough." But what if these misconceptions are actually preventing some of life's most enriching relationships?
Licensed clinical social worker Danniel Worthen-Cullumber joins us to dismantle these barriers with wisdom gained from decades working with both ends of the age spectrum. Her insights reveal something surprising: our discomfort with older generations often stems from fear of our own aging future. By creating distance through stereotypes, we protect ourselves from confronting our inevitable journey.
Danniel shares powerful observations about what each generation truly needs. For seniors, regular interaction combats the growing invisibility they feel as society pushes them to the margins. For younger people, these relationships provide something increasingly rare: adults who genuinely listen without judgment. "Teenagers just want to be heard," Danniel explains, "and I guarantee you that senior is going to listen."
The most transformative connections happen in everyday moments, not just holiday gatherings. Whether it's teaching grandma to use a smartphone or learning about historical events from someone who lived through them, these exchanges build bridges across decades of different experiences. Danniel's simple but profound advice—"Ask the question, you'll get the answer"—opens doorways to extraordinary stories and mutual understanding.
For families navigating the delicate balance of supporting aging loved ones while preserving their dignity, this episode offers practical guidance on maintaining autonomy while strengthening bonds. You'll discover how to identify what seniors truly want versus what they need, and how asking this simple question transforms relationships.
Whether you're caring for aging parents, hoping to connect with grandchildren, or simply wanting to enrich your life through intergenerational friendships, this conversation will forever change how you approach these vital human connections.
• Danniel's journey began as a CNA working with seniors, discovering it was "the hardest job she ever loved"
• Depression rates among seniors entering care facilities are alarmingly high, particularly for those who lose independence
• Misconceptions create barriers - young people often think seniors "don't get them," while seniors believe youth "don't care" or "aren't responsible"
• Young people may distance themselves from seniors as a way to avoid confronting their own future aging
• Intergenerational programs like those at Neighborhood House demonstrate how seniors' mental capacities "light up" when interacting with children
• Communication between generations improves when focused on common interests rather than generational differences
• Consistency matters more than grand gestures - regular Tuesday visits mean more than just showing up on holidays
• Seniors provide what teenagers crave most: someone who genuinely listens without judgment
• The value of older adults' experiences and stories provides perspective that can't be gained elsewhere
• Practical advice for families: "Ask the question, you'll get the answer" to discover connections
• Maintaining dignity and autonomy for seniors is crucial - avoid taking away rights as abilities change
For those seeking support as caregivers or those working with aging loved ones, Danniel's practice Willow Medela Wellness offers resources. Caregivers face high burnout rates and often benefit from professional guidance through life transitions and emotional challenges.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, joining us today is Danielle Worthen-Colomber, a
licensed clinical social workerwith years of experience in
mental health care.
She is here to shine insightson how we can break down the
barriers, encourage connectionand empower families to create
stronger intergenerational bonds.
Whether you're a caregiver, aparent or a teen looking to
connect with your grandparent,this episode is going to be
(00:28):
packed with wisdom just for you.
I'm super excited to have you,danielle.
Thanks for joining, kind ofjumping in and starting.
What inspired you to work inthe mental health and therapy,
especially adolescents andseniors?
Kind of got both ends of thespectrum.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, I fortunately had my stepmother wrote the
handbook for CNAs for Utah formy teacher and she would train
future CNAs from the schooldirect clear back in the early
90s Wow, all through.
And so I had originally wantedto be a CNA because I loved
(01:10):
being with my elders Growing upit seemed like they had the best
stories.
I just always gelled well withthem and, being the oldest
grandchild of 40-plus kids, thatgenerational gap was like my
best babysitter let's just say,but I actually got into
(01:33):
geriatrics and senior care, moreso because I loved the medical
aspect.
I wanted to be a pediatricianwhen I grew up but I had hurt my
back while in my pre-trainingdays as a CNA, so that kind of
shelved that for a little bit.
So what ended up happening wasI found out it was the hardest
(01:57):
job that I ever loved.
I was a caregiver and that wasas simple as that.
So what ended up happening wasI became a habilitation
therapist for special needs andthey also had a geriatric
community there and I personallygot to be with them and then
(02:18):
eventually became a recreationaltherapist Wow, therapist.
And I actually worked in thecare facilities providing
holistic care through activitiesand trying to help our
geriatric community with theirmental health, because
statistically at that time thehighest depression rate and for
(02:39):
suicides were those 16 pluslosing their home going into
care facilities because of care.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, isn't that still the statistic?
It's like men over 65 have thehighest suicide rate per capita.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Exactly.
But we found that it was thegeriatric community that the
depression just skyrocketed.
And this is back before we evenwere just barely to be able to
diagnose for bipolar and things.
So my journey in mental healthwas boots on the ground,
learning it firsthand, and I hada consultant that I had to sign
(03:17):
up on my notes because I wasjust a recreation technician in
these environments and he had todo a licensure as an lcsw.
So I actually ended up havingalready a social work lens and I
eventually went into socialwork and the rest is history.
I'm currently in my doctorprogram at simmons university
(03:41):
for my dsw and I have a year anda half left.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Wow, you're getting close, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But all through the years, geriatrics and family
bonding with intergenerationalconnection is the biggest thing,
because we have a lot offamilies who are the sandwich
generation, where they take careof the kids and their parents,
yep.
Then there's the ones thatdon't have anyone to take care
of, and the mental health partof it is depending on the
generation.
They're not able to talk aboutthe stigmas of struggling and
(04:17):
not being able to care forthemselves, especially when your
quality of life goes downhillso quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I'm curious, as you mentioned a little bit about
intergenerational, what are someof the most heartwarming
intergenerational connectionsthat you've witnessed so far
from your work?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You know, I think one of my funnest ones was through
neighborhood house.
They are like the oldest adultdaycare and the oldest child
daycare.
That in this like Valley and Iin the Salt Lake Valley and I
was the activity director thereand they provided
intergenerational activitieswith the preschoolers.
They would bring them over andwe got to work with adults and
(04:56):
all the way to the seniorcitizens and the way that the
mental capacity of a personwho's lost connection lights up
with a child Wow.
So it's like this memory comesback because in truth, if you're
looking at the polar opposites,you are literally bookending it
(05:19):
.
You're either you're the freestwhen you're young, you're not
as free as you're old, but whenyou don't have anything, I feel
like you're pretty mentally freeas you're old, but when you
don't have anything to worryabout, I feel like you're pretty
mentally free when you're old,but you're maybe less physically
free.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right, right, exactly so.
I think the biggest waswatching my own children getting
to be able to go to work withme and interact with my clients.
That's awesome Because that'sbeautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, my clients, that's awesome.
Yeah, throughout your time atlike Neighborhood House and then
beyond, just during in yourclinical work.
What are some of the biggestmisconceptions that like the
younger generation have aroundthe older generation, like, ok,
boomer was like really popularfor a long time and all those
things like?
What misconceptions do younotice that if they weren't
(06:05):
there, it would be a completelydifferent world for both younger
and old people?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
A couple.
Last stigma with this is theydon't get me, they don't know
what I'm talking about.
They smell.
Younger kids are always likethey smell.
(06:30):
That was a bit.
Younger kids are always likethey smell.
Funny, I'm like, well, there'sa reason, um, and it's not you,
it's actually you, can't you.
You only know your own funk kidbecause you're a teenager um no,
I think it's that they arescared to seeing that there is a
future, that that's going to bethem.
I think that's really where thecore of it is.
It doesn't matter what age youare, we're all creeping towards
(06:54):
that.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
That's interesting.
Yeah, I've never thought aboutit that way before of like the
reason why it feels like saferIf you estrange them through
these stigmas oh, that'll neverbe me because whatever, Like,
I've never thought about it thatway.
How joking about old people arelike hating on whatever things
(07:17):
they smell.
Funny.
It helps put like a distancebetween you and them instead of
yeah, that's super interesting.
Actually, I'm like having thisepiphany right now.
But on the flip side, what arecommon misunderstandings that
you've found that seniors haveabout, like today's youth?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The big one.
They don't care, they don'tcare.
They're not responsible,they're not educated, they're
lazy.
The list can go on.
Yeah, they're not educated,they're lazy.
The list can go on.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, that's a lot.
So how have you been able tokind of bridge that gap,
bidirectionally, make it so thatway?
It's like they're just like you, for the younger generation,
looking at seniors that don'tget me blah, blah, blah, don't
get me blah, blah, blah and theopposite of like.
No, these younger kids arehardworking, they're smart,
(08:09):
they're intelligent, just indifferent ways maybe than you're
used to.
They're not out working theranch for 14 hours a day, but
they have their own challenges,you know.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, and you've got to understand too, depending on
which age gap you're looking atmaybe being your teens, your 20s
, your 30s that is going tocoincide with whatever age they
were.
Like that's an old person andthat perception.
So you have to kind of meetwhere their idea of that that
(08:38):
can't be me.
They're too old, they'reforgetful, they're forgetful.
When I was in my 20s this iswhen I was really in the middle
of all the senior care there wasa joke I used to say I didn't
have regular friends.
Either we're dying of somethingor 80 years or older were my
friends.
So about breaking the gap isit's just that communication
(09:04):
piece is like creating asituation where they can talk to
each other doing thoseactivities.
Um, it seems like the only timethat young youth and when I
mean youth, I'm 48, almost 49,so if you're younger than 48,
you're a kiddo to me at thispoint.
I already labeled myself as inthat gap, but it's like I go
(09:31):
what are your common interests?
They don't have commoninterests Like, oh, y'all dated,
y'all had families, y'all hadcars.
You know, find a commoninterest and listen to them.
You might be surprised what youfind out.
And I can tell you I have metmany friends that have passed on
through my connections, from mymental health, my work, and I
(09:57):
still value them.
My memory is as clear as when Ifirst talked to them.
Yeah, because that resource isvaluable, that human connection.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I'm so curious on.
You mentioned a few of likefinding a common interest, but
what?
What are some communicationchallenges that come up between
the older and youngergenerations?
I feel like so badly wanting to.
I see a lot of people so badlywanting to connect potentially,
but, like you said this, likethe sadness generation, where
(10:32):
they you know, they didn't,weren't raised in a way maybe,
where there's as much of thisopen communication and talk
about all these things.
So how do you bridge that gap?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, I, when the thought that I was going to
bring in glad you went back to.
That was when I found the onlytime that seems to be a big
focus is on anniversary timeslike birthdays and things.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Don't make it just a seasonal thing like Christmas or
things, because it's all fluff.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
People feel it's just genuine, yeah, and also they're
forgotten.
Making a goal to do somethingthat smarts your community.
The times that you'resupporting your community,
you're going to find those oldergenerations because they have
more time to connect.
Like Mr and Mrs Golden, yourpageant used to be on.
(11:23):
They have these pageants, theyhave.
Or, you know, olympics pageantneeds to be on.
They have these pageants, theyhave.
Or, uh yeah, senior olympics.
Or one of my favorite thing iswe have the angel tree.
Well, there's the.
The golden angel is buyingthese gifts for the senior
citizens, like making kind oflike a thing that's not just for
your family, for the, for astranger, yeah, it connects.
(11:45):
Um.
Another way you can do this toois look at it also culturally.
This is a big people don'tthink about as culturally.
What is the community or theculture living in and what are
the, the relationships in thatfamily dynamic?
So Polynesian Latino communityand Asians they respect elders.
(12:14):
It's all about family, familialaspects.
Look at how that intersects andconnects and how you can pull
that into other demographics andcultures and see how that
relates and you can see that youactually can relate more than
(12:34):
you realize Because, if you lookat it, it's no different than
having first or secondgenerations immigrants coming in
, because that's another thing.
It's like they don't get it.
They're not from the no.
We always have to put a biasbecause we don't want to say
that we're struggling like theyhave or we're lacking what they
have.
(12:54):
Actually, they have more thanus.
They have more knowledge andquality of life.
Because they see us successful,let's get back by saying thank
you and continue what they wantto teach us when they're not
here.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
I think legacy is it can feedso much into.
I can't remember what the bookis called, but there's a book
that talks about having olderadults specifically like blood.
If it's your grandparents it'sgreat.
But they did this longitudinalstudy of the fact that kids that
(13:35):
had their grandparents in theirlife and kind of like knew
their history, their familyhistory, turned out much more
successful and just generallysuccessful later in life than
those that didn't have kind ofthat advantage of having their
grandparents.
So talking about I lovesomething else that you said
(13:57):
that I love is like don't go onthe typical, don't go on
grandpa's birthday or Christmas.
Like obviously do that, butalso go on a Tuesday on your
drive home from work and spend30 minutes because it means so
much more of like, oh my gosh,they went out of their way to
spend dinner with me on a randomTuesday night, compared to this
(14:17):
big extravagant Christmasdinner, thanksgiving dinner and
then nothing for the next 12months.
But how can spending time withseniors benefit younger people,
teenagers, young adults in termsof emotional intelligence and
personal growth?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
You know, one thing about teenagers is they.
I'm stereotyping here, okay,bear with me, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Because I do work with adolescents too, teenagers.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
They just want to be heard.
Yep, they just want to be heard.
I guarantee you that senior isgoing to listen and if you want
to have a conversation, theywill give you one.
They always think it's allabout me.
(15:06):
No, it's actually.
We just want to connect, justknowing that someone's being
present.
I guarantee, if you want ateenager to connect, have them
try to teach someone about thecell a cell phone or a new
picture.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, technology is hard for somebody.
But when they feel like they'revalued, the teenage, the kids
will actually pay attention whenthey feel there's value in it.
So, you've got to findsomething where there's a buy-in
and that's for anybody.
If there's a buy-in, people aremore willing to show up for it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, it makes me think about conversations that
I've had with my grandpa.
Like I remember when I wasyounger, like early adolescent.
Um, you know grandpa's up hereand he was a little bit like
scary cause he was so stalwartor uh, uh, not stalwart, stoic,
um, but now, talking about lifeand stuff with him, he's
(16:04):
genuinely he's very like old,older fashioned, kind of maybe
concert, like very on theconservative side, but he just
like listens and does prettywell Not, you know, like I said,
not judging, just like oh, wow,that's so cool.
And I think that that's more ofa commonality, because that's
kind of the stage of life thatolder adults are in, is they
(16:26):
want to share and be with theiryounger people.
So, on the flip side of thecoin, what mental health
benefits are there?
I think of like Eric Ericksonand his studies and things.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Oh yeah, stages of life Absolutely, eric Erickson
is like one of my favoritethings to talk to people about,
actually, yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But on the flip side of the mental, what are the
mental health benefits forseniors that interact with
younger people in generalregularly?
Ideally it's like their kin,but if not just somebody at
Costco, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
It goes back to community.
It's like we want someone toconnect with.
We don't want to feel alone.
We want to be not invisible,don't want to feel alone.
We want to be not invisible.
And as we age we become moreinvisible and we get folded into
(17:16):
the shadows, especially when amental health aspect is
impacting our ability to go outin the community or even take
care of ourselves.
That's the problem, is that?
That's why the whole smellthing comes in, because when
you're depressed, you're notable to take care of yourself as
well.
You're lucky that you can wakeup or not be able to have enough
(17:38):
energy, maybe because you can'tafford.
It could be actually economictoo, because you can't have the
money to go visit somebody ortravel.
There's all these aspects, butthe mental health part, on their
end, is where they can findcommunity.
(17:59):
I'll use personal experience.
Even though I've been preparedfor things, my parents had
finally got to that point wherethey were the people I was
taking care of when I was in my20s.
My father just passed away, umlast september, shy of turning
70.
My mother just turned 70.
(18:19):
My mother is very active, butshe's been a widow for six years
and the hardest thing when shewas a widow was she didn't feel
like she belonged anymore, shecouldn't get out there and she
kept being in a loop and I hadto keep showing up, but then I
finally was like going wait, wegot to break the cycle that I'm
(18:39):
the one person that is just foryou.
So she tried different things.
She tried the senior center.
They're too old.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
She's in that generation thing too.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
But she finally found her community and she just
basically had to find what helps, but also knowing that she's
still capable, she's not losingher mind because she lives alone
, she travels, she goes to BearLake, aricota goes to.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Bear Lake every couple weeks.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
She has her two dogs.
I live not far from her but Idon't have to see her every
single day to know that she'sokay.
We talk, we text, she uses thecomputer, she's functional.
I had to convince my ownsiblings that no, mom's not
losing her mind, because youcome see her for a couple days
and you're just noticing thesegaps.
She's telling you the samestories over and over again
(19:31):
because you're the only onesthat are able to listen and you
have heard her in like the 110thdegree time.
But on the other side, mystepmother, who had been the
caregiver all the way up to whenmy father passed away.
The grandkids have come andlived with her and stayed with
her.
They visit, they're constantly,having Sunday dinner every
(19:54):
other week and bless mystepmom's heart.
She's been a widow four timesand even with my father this
last time, after being married26 years.
It never got easier.
So being able to show up andknowing that, no matter what
stage you are, there is someform of grief going on, and
check in and let them understandthat that is hard and don't
(20:19):
force them to do anything thatyou don't want to, that's the
other thing.
When somebody dies or whenthere's a physical ailment or a
decrease in cognitive ability,first thing people want to do is
take away their rights.
Don't do that, people, please.
I'm begging you, because do youwant your rights taken away
(20:41):
from you?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
When you are still capable and functioning and
thriving.
Hey, I don't know about you,but when I'm sick or when I'm
sad, I'm going to beopposite-minded.
I am not going to be able toshow up 100% of the time.
Nobody's any different and itdoesn't matter what age that can
be, from a little kid all theway up to a 99-year-old.
(21:02):
I took care of a woman untilshe was 102.
She lived through two pandemics.
She did not die from thepandemic this last time, it was
just old age and she wastraveling, up until she was 99
years old, around the world andI got to hear her stories.
So, taking the value of thosetimes you get to visit, I mean
(21:24):
watch an old movie, for Pete'ssake, learn about, oh, I met
this person you get to visit, Imean watch an old movie, for
pete's sake, learn about.
Oh, I met this person, my, myclient that passed away of 102.
I got to see pictures of her,uh, on a memory from facebook on
the queen mary wow, I've beento the queen mary.
That is like so badass.
Sorry for the language.
These are things that we don'tget to think that there's an
(21:46):
opportunity we're missing out on.
But the one thing is alwaysknow that if you're going to
whatever you do, make sureyou're having dignity for the
person, yep, respect and don'ttake that moment for granted,
because you're going to learnsomething that you want when
(22:07):
you're in their shoes, in theirspot, in the future.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, I love that.
I think that little nugget ofputting yourself in their shoes,
like you said, like they're as,as things, it's not always all
in once, like maybe it's theycan't go skiing anymore and they
did for 40 years, like thereare all these like micro losses
that they're going through, andit's like, if you flip the
(22:31):
script, if I couldn't go skiinganymore, if I couldn't golf, if
I couldn't go visit my buddyanymore cause he'd passed away,
like I would be maybe not allthe way myself either, you know,
and so being able to reallyenvision yourself living the
life that they currently are andjust having that sympathy, that
empathy with everyone, is soimportant.
(22:53):
And I think, yeah, for familiesthat are really struggling to
bridge that generational gapbetween their seniors and their
(23:13):
family and the younger people.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I would first start with asking what they want and
then also asking what they needand defining what is which Okay,
because what we want is notalways what we need and what we
need is not always what we wantand that could be with anything.
And when we're bridging thatgap, we find we have more.
(23:39):
It's like the basic Maslowhierarchy care, if our basic
needs are being met, nothingelse matters.
And if we can find out wherethat gap is and we can fill that
void, you're going to findthere's more connection
happening.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
It's literally creating a cause for action in
anything, in our relationships,our dialogue, our presence for
things, our people.
Heck, I mean, you may not beable to be able to have the same
conversation about politics toum outroot.
I make it up this, and there'sa little bread and butter
(24:16):
cobbler that you could likenanny to make.
You find out.
We have traditions.
Ask the questions, you'll getthe answers.
That's how you bridge the gap.
Ask the question.
Question, you'll get the answer.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I love that.
Yeah, it makes me think aboutwhen I was 15, I was just going
out fishing with my grandpa,like we did often.
We didn't talk a bunch, but itwas kind of like this weird
realization of like, oh my gosh,you're 70.
So that means you've beenaround 55 years before I was
even on this earth.
What did you do when you weremy age and I learned that donkey
(24:52):
basketball was a thing in Idahoand he just talked about how he
was like an all-star on donkeybasketball in a tiny town in
Idaho and I was like that's thecoolest thing ever.
And so, yeah, ask the question,you'll get the answer.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I remember being a little kid when I was probably
five or six.
I used to.
They had black.
My dad still had a black andwhite TV.
My parents had been divorcedsince I was born.
I used to go Dad.
What was it like to be black andwhite in the 50s?
Because I was born in 1955?
That was my perception, becausethat was my reference and what
we find out is the references.
I'm like I still love theinformation.
I have like going because Iheard a story from someone who
(25:30):
had been there and because Iheard a story from someone who
had been there.
I knew a person that livedduring Topaz and I was like, oh,
what was it like to be aJapanese-American during that?
And she's like, oh, we had, theones of us in Utah had more
rights.
I'm like I got to find out thesereally cool things.
I have met survivors of theHolocaust.
(25:53):
These are opportunities that noone else got to meet.
I used to know the formerlieutenant governor and became
her mayor.
I forgot her name Because myjob, she wasn't my client.
I just happened to be in anevent because nobody else wanted
to go to the event after aconference.
I mean putting yourself inthese positions of meeting these
(26:18):
people that have history aregolden and no one can take that
from you.
But you have to open your mouthand open your ears and look at
what the opportunities arepresenting to you.
And that's where, when peopleare saying, how do I do it, I'm
like first going ask yourselfwhat are you wanting from?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
it yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Because if you're going in with the wrong
perception and idea, you'regoing to hit the brick wall
every time.
You're going to have closeddoors, you're going to have
closed windows, you're not goingto have connection.
One thing about communicationis, as a therapist, it goes back
to this Are you talking withthe person or versus act?
And that's where we also gowith parent to child, adult
(27:04):
child to parent to even greatgrandparents.
Are we listening?
And all the way down?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, are we listening?
And on the way down, yeah, thatwas a beautiful, beautiful
explanation, um, that we blewright past the 25.
That was very.
We could go on and on and on.
This is awesome, um, kind of.
In closing, I'd like that'slike period.
That was a great ending point,um, but is there anything else
that you would want to share?
(27:33):
Or if you're trying to get infront of specific people or
something ways that people canconnect with you, that would be
great.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, I actually started on the founder and
started my practice of WillowMedela Wellness.
Medela is M-E-D-E-L-A becauseno one can spell it, because I
probably don't pronounce itright, because it's a Latin root
word.
But if people want to know howto connect with being as a
caregiver because being acaregiver there's a higher
(28:02):
burnout rate they die soonerthan they're older a spouse or a
partner or a friend that iselderly or struggling, no matter
what age reach out for support.
Use your numbers of 2-1-1 forinformation.
There is talk about the hardquestion about support for
(28:24):
hospice and palliative care.
You can come ask the question.
I don't have a problem withtalking about it.
You don't even have to come fortherapy.
I mean, these are life-changingevents that people need a space
to feel heard and valued in,especially in the emotion,
because we don't know what todeal with or what we're doing,
(28:47):
because we've never been there.
We've only observed it throughother people's lenses.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And these are those lenses have already been skewed
at some point.
Yeah, and we've already had abias.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, danielle, it's been superfun and I I can check mark.
People should reach out to youif they need any sort of support
.
So I'm excited that your clinicis opening up yeah, good luck
in the next year and a halffinishing up your phd, that's
huge.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's actually a doctorate, it's my.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
PhD, doctorate yeah, it's a totally different degree.
Wow, which is awesome.
Awesome.
Okay, thanks so much, danielle.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Thank you.
Hey, joining us today is Danielle Worthen-Colomber, a
licensed clinical social workerwith years of experience in
mental health care.
She is here to shine insightson how we can break down the
barriers, encourage connectionand empower families to create
stronger intergenerational bonds.
Whether you're a caregiver, aparent or a teen looking to
connect with your grandparent,this episode is going to be
(00:28):
packed with wisdom just for you.
I'm super excited to have you,danielle.
Thanks for joining, kind ofjumping in and starting.
What inspired you to work inthe mental health and therapy,
especially adolescents andseniors?
Kind of got both ends of thespectrum.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, I fortunately had my stepmother wrote the
handbook for CNAs for Utah formy teacher and she would train
future CNAs from the schooldirect clear back in the early
90s Wow, all through.
And so I had originally wantedto be a CNA because I loved
(01:10):
being with my elders Growing upit seemed like they had the best
stories.
I just always gelled well withthem and, being the oldest
grandchild of 40-plus kids, thatgenerational gap was like my
best babysitter let's just say,but I actually got into
(01:33):
geriatrics and senior care, moreso because I loved the medical
aspect.
I wanted to be a pediatricianwhen I grew up but I had hurt my
back while in my pre-trainingdays as a CNA, so that kind of
shelved that for a little bit.
So what ended up happening wasI found out it was the hardest
(01:57):
job that I ever loved.
I was a caregiver and that wasas simple as that.
So what ended up happening wasI became a habilitation
therapist for special needs andthey also had a geriatric
community there and I personallygot to be with them and then
(02:18):
eventually became a recreationaltherapist Wow, therapist.
And I actually worked in thecare facilities providing
holistic care through activitiesand trying to help our
geriatric community with theirmental health, because
statistically at that time thehighest depression rate and for
(02:39):
suicides were those 16 pluslosing their home going into
care facilities because of care.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, isn't that still the statistic?
It's like men over 65 have thehighest suicide rate per capita.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Exactly.
But we found that it was thegeriatric community that the
depression just skyrocketed.
And this is back before we evenwere just barely to be able to
diagnose for bipolar and things.
So my journey in mental healthwas boots on the ground,
learning it firsthand, and I hada consultant that I had to sign
(03:17):
up on my notes because I wasjust a recreation technician in
these environments and he had todo a licensure as an lcsw.
So I actually ended up havingalready a social work lens and I
eventually went into socialwork and the rest is history.
I'm currently in my doctorprogram at simmons university
(03:41):
for my dsw and I have a year anda half left.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Wow, you're getting close, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But all through the years, geriatrics and family
bonding with intergenerationalconnection is the biggest thing,
because we have a lot offamilies who are the sandwich
generation, where they take careof the kids and their parents,
yep.
Then there's the ones thatdon't have anyone to take care
of, and the mental health partof it is depending on the
generation.
They're not able to talk aboutthe stigmas of struggling and
(04:17):
not being able to care forthemselves, especially when your
quality of life goes downhillso quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I'm curious, as you mentioned a little bit about
intergenerational, what are someof the most heartwarming
intergenerational connectionsthat you've witnessed so far
from your work?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You know, I think one of my funnest ones was through
neighborhood house.
They are like the oldest adultdaycare and the oldest child
daycare.
That in this like Valley and Iin the Salt Lake Valley and I
was the activity director thereand they provided
intergenerational activitieswith the preschoolers.
They would bring them over andwe got to work with adults and
(04:56):
all the way to the seniorcitizens and the way that the
mental capacity of a personwho's lost connection lights up
with a child Wow.
So it's like this memory comesback because in truth, if you're
looking at the polar opposites,you are literally bookending it
(05:19):
.
You're either you're the freestwhen you're young, you're not
as free as you're old, but whenyou don't have anything, I feel
like you're pretty mentally freeas you're old, but when you
don't have anything to worryabout, I feel like you're pretty
mentally free when you're old,but you're maybe less physically
free.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right, right, exactly so.
I think the biggest waswatching my own children getting
to be able to go to work withme and interact with my clients.
That's awesome Because that'sbeautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, my clients, that's awesome.
Yeah, throughout your time atlike Neighborhood House and then
beyond, just during in yourclinical work.
What are some of the biggestmisconceptions that like the
younger generation have aroundthe older generation, like, ok,
boomer was like really popularfor a long time and all those
things like?
What misconceptions do younotice that if they weren't
(06:05):
there, it would be a completelydifferent world for both younger
and old people?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
A couple.
Last stigma with this is theydon't get me, they don't know
what I'm talking about.
They smell.
Younger kids are always likethey smell.
(06:30):
That was a bit.
Younger kids are always likethey smell.
Funny, I'm like, well, there'sa reason, um, and it's not you,
it's actually you, can't you.
You only know your own funk kidbecause you're a teenager um no,
I think it's that they arescared to seeing that there is a
future, that that's going to bethem.
I think that's really where thecore of it is.
It doesn't matter what age youare, we're all creeping towards
(06:54):
that.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
That's interesting.
Yeah, I've never thought aboutit that way before of like the
reason why it feels like saferIf you estrange them through
these stigmas oh, that'll neverbe me because whatever, Like,
I've never thought about it thatway.
How joking about old people arelike hating on whatever things
(07:17):
they smell.
Funny.
It helps put like a distancebetween you and them instead of
yeah, that's super interesting.
Actually, I'm like having thisepiphany right now.
But on the flip side, what arecommon misunderstandings that
you've found that seniors haveabout, like today's youth?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The big one.
They don't care, they don'tcare.
They're not responsible,they're not educated, they're
lazy.
The list can go on.
Yeah, they're not educated,they're lazy.
The list can go on.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, that's a lot.
So how have you been able tokind of bridge that gap,
bidirectionally, make it so thatway?
It's like they're just like you, for the younger generation,
looking at seniors that don'tget me blah, blah, blah, don't
get me blah, blah, blah and theopposite of like.
No, these younger kids arehardworking, they're smart,
(08:09):
they're intelligent, just indifferent ways maybe than you're
used to.
They're not out working theranch for 14 hours a day, but
they have their own challenges,you know.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, and you've got to understand too, depending on
which age gap you're looking atmaybe being your teens, your 20s
, your 30s that is going tocoincide with whatever age they
were.
Like that's an old person andthat perception.
So you have to kind of meetwhere their idea of that that
(08:38):
can't be me.
They're too old, they'reforgetful, they're forgetful.
When I was in my 20s this iswhen I was really in the middle
of all the senior care there wasa joke I used to say I didn't
have regular friends.
Either we're dying of somethingor 80 years or older were my
friends.
So about breaking the gap isit's just that communication
(09:04):
piece is like creating asituation where they can talk to
each other doing thoseactivities.
Um, it seems like the only timethat young youth and when I
mean youth, I'm 48, almost 49,so if you're younger than 48,
you're a kiddo to me at thispoint.
I already labeled myself as inthat gap, but it's like I go
(09:31):
what are your common interests?
They don't have commoninterests Like, oh, y'all dated,
y'all had families, y'all hadcars.
You know, find a commoninterest and listen to them.
You might be surprised what youfind out.
And I can tell you I have metmany friends that have passed on
through my connections, from mymental health, my work, and I
(09:57):
still value them.
My memory is as clear as when Ifirst talked to them.
Yeah, because that resource isvaluable, that human connection.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I'm so curious on.
You mentioned a few of likefinding a common interest, but
what?
What are some communicationchallenges that come up between
the older and youngergenerations?
I feel like so badly wanting to.
I see a lot of people so badlywanting to connect potentially,
but, like you said this, likethe sadness generation, where
(10:32):
they you know, they didn't,weren't raised in a way maybe,
where there's as much of thisopen communication and talk
about all these things.
So how do you bridge that gap?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, I, when the thought that I was going to
bring in glad you went back to.
That was when I found the onlytime that seems to be a big
focus is on anniversary timeslike birthdays and things.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Don't make it just a seasonal thing like Christmas or
things, because it's all fluff.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
People feel it's just genuine, yeah, and also they're
forgotten.
Making a goal to do somethingthat smarts your community.
The times that you'resupporting your community,
you're going to find those oldergenerations because they have
more time to connect.
Like Mr and Mrs Golden, yourpageant used to be on.
(11:23):
They have these pageants, theyhave.
Or, you know, olympics pageantneeds to be on.
They have these pageants, theyhave.
Or, uh yeah, senior olympics.
Or one of my favorite thing iswe have the angel tree.
Well, there's the.
The golden angel is buyingthese gifts for the senior
citizens, like making kind oflike a thing that's not just for
your family, for the, for astranger, yeah, it connects.
(11:45):
Um.
Another way you can do this toois look at it also culturally.
This is a big people don'tthink about as culturally.
What is the community or theculture living in and what are
the, the relationships in thatfamily dynamic?
So Polynesian Latino communityand Asians they respect elders.
(12:14):
It's all about family, familialaspects.
Look at how that intersects andconnects and how you can pull
that into other demographics andcultures and see how that
relates and you can see that youactually can relate more than
(12:34):
you realize Because, if you lookat it, it's no different than
having first or secondgenerations immigrants coming in
, because that's another thing.
It's like they don't get it.
They're not from the no.
We always have to put a biasbecause we don't want to say
that we're struggling like theyhave or we're lacking what they
have.
(12:54):
Actually, they have more thanus.
They have more knowledge andquality of life.
Because they see us successful,let's get back by saying thank
you and continue what they wantto teach us when they're not
here.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
I think legacy is it can feedso much into.
I can't remember what the bookis called, but there's a book
that talks about having olderadults specifically like blood.
If it's your grandparents it'sgreat.
But they did this longitudinalstudy of the fact that kids that
(13:35):
had their grandparents in theirlife and kind of like knew
their history, their familyhistory, turned out much more
successful and just generallysuccessful later in life than
those that didn't have kind ofthat advantage of having their
grandparents.
So talking about I lovesomething else that you said
(13:57):
that I love is like don't go onthe typical, don't go on
grandpa's birthday or Christmas.
Like obviously do that, butalso go on a Tuesday on your
drive home from work and spend30 minutes because it means so
much more of like, oh my gosh,they went out of their way to
spend dinner with me on a randomTuesday night, compared to this
(14:17):
big extravagant Christmasdinner, thanksgiving dinner and
then nothing for the next 12months.
But how can spending time withseniors benefit younger people,
teenagers, young adults in termsof emotional intelligence and
personal growth?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
You know, one thing about teenagers is they.
I'm stereotyping here, okay,bear with me, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Because I do work with adolescents too, teenagers.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
They just want to be heard.
Yep, they just want to be heard.
I guarantee you that senior isgoing to listen and if you want
to have a conversation, theywill give you one.
They always think it's allabout me.
(15:06):
No, it's actually.
We just want to connect, justknowing that someone's being
present.
I guarantee, if you want ateenager to connect, have them
try to teach someone about thecell a cell phone or a new
picture.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, technology is hard for somebody.
But when they feel like they'revalued, the teenage, the kids
will actually pay attention whenthey feel there's value in it.
So, you've got to findsomething where there's a buy-in
and that's for anybody.
If there's a buy-in, people aremore willing to show up for it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, it makes me think about conversations that
I've had with my grandpa.
Like I remember when I wasyounger, like early adolescent.
Um, you know grandpa's up hereand he was a little bit like
scary cause he was so stalwartor uh, uh, not stalwart, stoic,
um, but now, talking about lifeand stuff with him, he's
(16:04):
genuinely he's very like old,older fashioned, kind of maybe
concert, like very on theconservative side, but he just
like listens and does prettywell Not, you know, like I said,
not judging, just like oh, wow,that's so cool.
And I think that that's more ofa commonality, because that's
kind of the stage of life thatolder adults are in, is they
(16:26):
want to share and be with theiryounger people.
So, on the flip side of thecoin, what mental health
benefits are there?
I think of like Eric Ericksonand his studies and things.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Oh yeah, stages of life Absolutely, eric Erickson
is like one of my favoritethings to talk to people about,
actually, yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But on the flip side of the mental, what are the
mental health benefits forseniors that interact with
younger people in generalregularly?
Ideally it's like their kin,but if not just somebody at
Costco, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
It goes back to community.
It's like we want someone toconnect with.
We don't want to feel alone.
We want to be not invisible,don't want to feel alone.
We want to be not invisible.
And as we age we become moreinvisible and we get folded into
(17:16):
the shadows, especially when amental health aspect is
impacting our ability to go outin the community or even take
care of ourselves.
That's the problem, is that?
That's why the whole smellthing comes in, because when
you're depressed, you're notable to take care of yourself as
well.
You're lucky that you can wakeup or not be able to have enough
(17:38):
energy, maybe because you can'tafford.
It could be actually economictoo, because you can't have the
money to go visit somebody ortravel.
There's all these aspects, butthe mental health part, on their
end, is where they can findcommunity.
(17:59):
I'll use personal experience.
Even though I've been preparedfor things, my parents had
finally got to that point wherethey were the people I was
taking care of when I was in my20s.
My father just passed away, umlast september, shy of turning
70.
My mother just turned 70.
(18:19):
My mother is very active, butshe's been a widow for six years
and the hardest thing when shewas a widow was she didn't feel
like she belonged anymore, shecouldn't get out there and she
kept being in a loop and I hadto keep showing up, but then I
finally was like going wait, wegot to break the cycle that I'm
(18:39):
the one person that is just foryou.
So she tried different things.
She tried the senior center.
They're too old.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
She's in that generation thing too.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
But she finally found her community and she just
basically had to find what helps, but also knowing that she's
still capable, she's not losingher mind because she lives alone
, she travels, she goes to BearLake, aricota goes to.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Bear Lake every couple weeks.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
She has her two dogs.
I live not far from her but Idon't have to see her every
single day to know that she'sokay.
We talk, we text, she uses thecomputer, she's functional.
I had to convince my ownsiblings that no, mom's not
losing her mind, because youcome see her for a couple days
and you're just noticing thesegaps.
She's telling you the samestories over and over again
(19:31):
because you're the only onesthat are able to listen and you
have heard her in like the 110thdegree time.
But on the other side, mystepmother, who had been the
caregiver all the way up to whenmy father passed away.
The grandkids have come andlived with her and stayed with
her.
They visit, they're constantly,having Sunday dinner every
(19:54):
other week and bless mystepmom's heart.
She's been a widow four timesand even with my father this
last time, after being married26 years.
It never got easier.
So being able to show up andknowing that, no matter what
stage you are, there is someform of grief going on, and
check in and let them understandthat that is hard and don't
(20:19):
force them to do anything thatyou don't want to, that's the
other thing.
When somebody dies or whenthere's a physical ailment or a
decrease in cognitive ability,first thing people want to do is
take away their rights.
Don't do that, people, please.
I'm begging you, because do youwant your rights taken away
(20:41):
from you?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
When you are still capable and functioning and
thriving.
Hey, I don't know about you,but when I'm sick or when I'm
sad, I'm going to beopposite-minded.
I am not going to be able toshow up 100% of the time.
Nobody's any different and itdoesn't matter what age that can
be, from a little kid all theway up to a 99-year-old.
(21:02):
I took care of a woman untilshe was 102.
She lived through two pandemics.
She did not die from thepandemic this last time, it was
just old age and she wastraveling, up until she was 99
years old, around the world andI got to hear her stories.
So, taking the value of thosetimes you get to visit, I mean
(21:24):
watch an old movie, for Pete'ssake, learn about, oh, I met
this person you get to visit, Imean watch an old movie, for
pete's sake, learn about.
Oh, I met this person, my, myclient that passed away of 102.
I got to see pictures of her,uh, on a memory from facebook on
the queen mary wow, I've beento the queen mary.
That is like so badass.
Sorry for the language.
These are things that we don'tget to think that there's an
(21:46):
opportunity we're missing out on.
But the one thing is alwaysknow that if you're going to
whatever you do, make sureyou're having dignity for the
person, yep, respect and don'ttake that moment for granted,
because you're going to learnsomething that you want when
(22:07):
you're in their shoes, in theirspot, in the future.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, I love that.
I think that little nugget ofputting yourself in their shoes,
like you said, like they're as,as things, it's not always all
in once, like maybe it's theycan't go skiing anymore and they
did for 40 years, like thereare all these like micro losses
that they're going through, andit's like, if you flip the
(22:31):
script, if I couldn't go skiinganymore, if I couldn't golf, if
I couldn't go visit my buddyanymore cause he'd passed away,
like I would be maybe not allthe way myself either, you know,
and so being able to reallyenvision yourself living the
life that they currently are andjust having that sympathy, that
empathy with everyone, is soimportant.
(22:53):
And I think, yeah, for familiesthat are really struggling to
bridge that generational gapbetween their seniors and their
(23:13):
family and the younger people.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I would first start with asking what they want and
then also asking what they needand defining what is which Okay,
because what we want is notalways what we need and what we
need is not always what we wantand that could be with anything.
And when we're bridging thatgap, we find we have more.
(23:39):
It's like the basic Maslowhierarchy care, if our basic
needs are being met, nothingelse matters.
And if we can find out wherethat gap is and we can fill that
void, you're going to findthere's more connection
happening.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
It's literally creating a cause for action in
anything, in our relationships,our dialogue, our presence for
things, our people.
Heck, I mean, you may not beable to be able to have the same
conversation about politics toum outroot.
I make it up this, and there'sa little bread and butter
(24:16):
cobbler that you could likenanny to make.
You find out.
We have traditions.
Ask the questions, you'll getthe answers.
That's how you bridge the gap.
Ask the question.
Question, you'll get the answer.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I love that.
Yeah, it makes me think aboutwhen I was 15, I was just going
out fishing with my grandpa,like we did often.
We didn't talk a bunch, but itwas kind of like this weird
realization of like, oh my gosh,you're 70.
So that means you've beenaround 55 years before I was
even on this earth.
What did you do when you weremy age and I learned that donkey
(24:52):
basketball was a thing in Idahoand he just talked about how he
was like an all-star on donkeybasketball in a tiny town in
Idaho and I was like that's thecoolest thing ever.
And so, yeah, ask the question,you'll get the answer.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I remember being a little kid when I was probably
five or six.
I used to.
They had black.
My dad still had a black andwhite TV.
My parents had been divorcedsince I was born.
I used to go Dad.
What was it like to be black andwhite in the 50s?
Because I was born in 1955?
That was my perception, becausethat was my reference and what
we find out is the references.
I'm like I still love theinformation.
I have like going because Iheard a story from someone who
(25:30):
had been there and because Iheard a story from someone who
had been there.
I knew a person that livedduring Topaz and I was like, oh,
what was it like to be aJapanese-American during that?
And she's like, oh, we had, theones of us in Utah had more
rights.
I'm like I got to find out thesereally cool things.
I have met survivors of theHolocaust.
(25:53):
These are opportunities that noone else got to meet.
I used to know the formerlieutenant governor and became
her mayor.
I forgot her name Because myjob, she wasn't my client.
I just happened to be in anevent because nobody else wanted
to go to the event after aconference.
I mean putting yourself inthese positions of meeting these
(26:18):
people that have history aregolden and no one can take that
from you.
But you have to open your mouthand open your ears and look at
what the opportunities arepresenting to you.
And that's where, when peopleare saying, how do I do it, I'm
like first going ask yourselfwhat are you wanting from?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
it yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Because if you're going in with the wrong
perception and idea, you'regoing to hit the brick wall
every time.
You're going to have closeddoors, you're going to have
closed windows, you're not goingto have connection.
One thing about communicationis, as a therapist, it goes back
to this Are you talking withthe person or versus act?
And that's where we also gowith parent to child, adult
(27:04):
child to parent to even greatgrandparents.
Are we listening?
And all the way down?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, are we listening?
And on the way down, yeah, thatwas a beautiful, beautiful
explanation, um, that we blewright past the 25.
That was very.
We could go on and on and on.
This is awesome, um, kind of.
In closing, I'd like that'slike period.
That was a great ending point,um, but is there anything else
that you would want to share?
(27:33):
Or if you're trying to get infront of specific people or
something ways that people canconnect with you, that would be
great.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, I actually started on the founder and
started my practice of WillowMedela Wellness.
Medela is M-E-D-E-L-A becauseno one can spell it, because I
probably don't pronounce itright, because it's a Latin root
word.
But if people want to know howto connect with being as a
caregiver because being acaregiver there's a higher
(28:02):
burnout rate they die soonerthan they're older a spouse or a
partner or a friend that iselderly or struggling, no matter
what age reach out for support.
Use your numbers of 2-1-1 forinformation.
There is talk about the hardquestion about support for
(28:24):
hospice and palliative care.
You can come ask the question.
I don't have a problem withtalking about it.
You don't even have to come fortherapy.
I mean, these are life-changingevents that people need a space
to feel heard and valued in,especially in the emotion,
because we don't know what todeal with or what we're doing,
(28:47):
because we've never been there.
We've only observed it throughother people's lenses.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And these are those lenses have already been skewed
at some point.
Yeah, and we've already had abias.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, danielle, it's been superfun and I I can check mark.
People should reach out to youif they need any sort of support
.
So I'm excited that your clinicis opening up yeah, good luck
in the next year and a halffinishing up your phd, that's
huge.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's actually a doctorate, it's my.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
PhD, doctorate yeah, it's a totally different degree.
Wow, which is awesome.
Awesome.
Okay, thanks so much, danielle.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Thank you.
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