October 23, 2024 • 33 mins
What if you could transform a company from a $500 million market cap to an astounding $5 billion? Join us on the Senior Care Academy podcast as we welcome Dave Sedgwick, President and CEO of CareTrust REIT, to unravel the strategic maneuvers behind this impressive growth. Dave gives us a firsthand account of CareTrust's evolution since 1999 starting under the umbrella of Ensign Group. Dave shares insight into how REITs function and includes his tips for leadership success.
Our conversation with Dave also sheds light on the delicate balance between leadership and growth. Dave shares career advice on becoming invaluable within your organization. Learn how empowering team members can lead to remarkable business success. Discover insights into Dave's leadership style, including the importance of achieving results while nurturing relationships. His journey offers valuable lessons for anyone aspiring to lead in the dynamic environment of real estate investment and senior care.
As we look ahead, Dave provides a glimpse into the future role of REITs in meeting the rising demand for senior living facilities.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Senior Care Academy.
Today on our show, we'rethrilled to have Dave Sedgwick,
president and CEO of CareTrustREIT, joining us.
Dave has been with CareTrustsince its inception in 2014,
guiding the company's strategicgrowth in areas such as new
investments, tenant relationsand portfolio management.
Before CareTrust, dave heldseveral leadership roles at
(00:23):
Enzyme Group, where heaccumulated over 12 years of
experience in post-acute careand senior living.
Dave's career path, frommanaging skilled nursing
facilities to overseeing one ofthe most dynamic healthcare
REITs in the industry, is trulyinspiring.
Beyond his impressive businessacumen, he's a licensed nursing
home administrator and apassionate traveler who's always
eager to learn and to share newideas.
(00:45):
We are looking forward todiving into his journey and
insights on the future ofhealthcare real estate.
So, Dave, thanks for coming onand welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, happy to be here.
Thanks, Caleb.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah.
So I kind of want to jump in.
You've been with CareTrustsince the beginning and it's
pretty exceptional what you guyshave done.
What is kind of the originalvision behind Care Trust REIT
and how has it evolved over thelast decade?
Not too many businesses arepublicly traded and not too many
businesses actually havemeaningful growth over a decade.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, Well, I guess, to go back, our story really
starts back in 1999, when theskilled nursing operating
company, the Ensign Group, wasborn.
I started there in the earlydays, became an administrator,
ran a handful of facilities forthe company.
(01:37):
In 2007, ensign went public andalong the way, it had acquired
quite a bit of its own realestate.
So it's running skilled nursingfacilities.
In some cases it's leasing thebuildings on long-term leases
from different landlords,including other REITs, and in
(01:57):
other cases it's actuallyacquiring the real estate itself
.
So by about 2014 or 10 years ago, we had realized that we had
acquired a lot of real estateand we weren't really getting
credit for the value of thatreal estate and in a way, to
sort of unlock that value, wetook 97 properties that we owned
(02:22):
outright and spun it off into apublic company.
That's a REIT.
Now, a lot of people don't knowwhat a REIT is.
Yeah, it stands for Real EstateInvestment Trust.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And it's really just a type of company that the
federal government created sothat Joe Public can own
commercial real estate.
So what that means is if,before a REIT was formed, it'd
be virtually impossible for youor me to own commercial real
(03:00):
estate because we don't havethat kind of money.
Tens, hundreds of millions ofdollars.
Yeah, geez, right and like ifyou wanted to own a shopping
center or a manhattan office orhospital or whatever that's,
that's reserved for a veryselect few people.
Well, a re is created as a wayto have everybody who wants to
(03:23):
not just buy a share of ibm orapple or whatever, but you can
also buy a share of thecommercial real estate in the
country and so then thesedifferent sectors were created
to specialize in health careREITs or office or industrial
REITs and things like that.
And so what we did is we spunout the 97 properties into Care
(03:47):
Trust REIT and on day one, 10years ago, we had one operator,
one tenant, the Ensign Groupthat leased their own buildings
from us, and we then had to.
The idea then was well, and wethen had to.
The idea then was well, nopublic company investor is going
(04:09):
to be comfortable with just onetenant or one operator, it's
all your hands in one basket.
Even if it's Ensign who's a bluechip operator and bulletproof
credit.
It still makes people nervous.
So you have to diversify yourportfolio, and what that meant
for us is we're going to growwith new operators so that the
(04:31):
Ensign percentage comes down,and that's what we've done.
So today we have somewherearound 30% of our business is
with the Ensign group oh wow.
Percent of our business is withthe Ensign group oh wow.
And the other two thirds iswith new operators.
That we've gotten to know, thatwe knew from our operating days
(04:52):
at Ensign and that we've gottento know since we started.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
So putting it back basically a REIT, you buy
nursing homes or skilled nursingfacilities and then I can then
go invest in CareLife REIT orCareTrust sorry REIT and I own
it.
And then the operator orwhatever entity that the C-Corp
(05:18):
that's an operator, the LLCthat's operating a skilled
nursing rents that buildingright.
Am I saying?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
that right?
Yes, very interesting.
For example, a lot of our weown buildings that are operated
currently by you mentionedbefore we started PAX.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Or the Ensign Group, or Lynx, or Bayshire or Duro,
Cascadia, um uh covenant care.
There's all these differentoperators.
So you go to a PAX facility.
You don't really know, as afamily member, as a patient who
(05:59):
owns the real estate you know,that PAX is the operator and
that's all that really matters,right?
So you walk into an ensignfacility estate, you know that
PACS is the operator and that'sall that really matters, right?
So you walk into an Ensignfacility.
We have virtually zero controlor influence over operations.
So whether PACS owns their ownproperty or they lease it from
(06:23):
us on a 15-year lease, thepatient experience is the same.
The employee experience is thesame because Pax has 100%
control in both of thosescenarios.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's similar to an office space, right Like you own
.
If somebody owns an officebuilding they don't necessarily
have control.
They can deny people that wantto work in their space but, like
the company that's in thebuilding operating it, if they
have one star review, it's noton them necessarily.
They just own the land thatit's on.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, well, that's very interesting and I am.
This is not one of thequestions I was planning on, but
I'm curious as far as investingin just different publicly
traded stocks, how does, how doREITs compare to, like I said,
apple, these other liketechnology or service or product
(07:16):
companies, cause I feel like,where it's based on real estate
and it's always appreciating,like, how does it, is it a safer
bet?
For me, it feels like it wouldbe a safer bet to go with my
dollars as a as a Joe investorand invest in a REIT.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah.
So that's a great question.
And there's not.
I mean Apple, nvidia, netflix.
They can't compete with skillednursing real estate in terms of
sex appeal, right?
I mean?
There's nothing sexier thaninvesting in nursing homes.
That's a joke.
I'm glad you get it.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah, nobody yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No one's going to.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
If you go to a second grade class, probably at least
80% of the kids are going to sayI want to be a nursing home
administrator one day, right,exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
a nursing home administrator one day, right,
exactly so when you think aboutinvesting in public companies in
security.
We all kind of know aboutportfolio allocation.
And that allocation is going tobe a function of your appetite
for risk, so you're going tohave of your appetite for risk,
so you're going to have.
You know, if you invest in tech, you're probably going to have
(08:28):
more upside.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
but you also?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
have the volatility with it.
So higher risk, higher reward.
The reason REITs are viewedprimarily as like an income part
of your portfolio.
So you're investing in techtype stocks for the stock price
depreciation potential that ithas.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You invest in REITs because, in order to be a REIT
technically, you have todistribute at least 90% of all
of your income every year out toyour shareholders.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Wow.
So we can't even all thisincome that we get from our
operators that pay us rent.
We can't retain that andredeploy that into growth.
We have to distribute 90% of itout in the form of dividends.
That's crazy 90% of it out inthe form of dividends.
That's crazy.
And so REITs are really.
They're kind of a safe incomesystem, part of your portfolio.
(09:32):
Now, care, trust.
We try to be both, we try to bethat safe income producing
stock.
But we also have a prettytremendous growth story that a
lot of regions don't have, andso people invest in care, trust
who who want a little bit of ofboth of that action yeah,
(09:52):
because you've grown so if youstarted with 97, um enzyme
buildings and now you guys areover 200, right?
Yeah, we're over 200.
We have 23 or somethingoperators that lease from us.
Wow, um, yeah, so we've gonefrom I think we started at
around 50 million of revenue andtoday it's closer to 220
(10:17):
million of of, uh, just rentplus interest revenue takes us
up yeah that's so when we.
When we spun out, our marketcap was just below 500 million.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Last year.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Last summer we were at about 2.5 billion, wow, and
at this point, year to date,we've grown that to about 5
billion.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So we've been on a pretty meteoric increase, yes,
especially it sounds like forREITs where, like, pretty
meteoric, yes, especially itsounds like for reits where,
like, if you only have 10 ofyour, your income to try to grow
, to be able to grow like thatin 10 years with 10 of your
income, um is crazy, impressive.
So that's really cool as far asgrowing that like the leadership
(11:10):
style of it.
I was looking at differentinterviews.
You were on one like early lastyear with CareLife or something
I can't remember.
It was like the hot seat, butyou're like successfully leading
companies like that.
And then the 10 years beforeyou went into CareTrust you've
managed to successfully leadcompanies through different
(11:30):
stages of growth.
How would you describe the waythat you try to lead and then
what principles are guiding youon the way that you lead?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Um, I think one of my , one of my advantages is that I
I have a pretty good awarenessof my limitations and I know
that here at Care Trust, I'm notthe smartest guy in the room,
(12:05):
and so we have to have I have tohave really exceptionally
competent, talented people, andso I try to create an
environment where they want tobe.
Most exceptionally talenteddriven people prefer not to be
really micromanaged.
They prefer to be empowered,respected, listened to and
(12:31):
because I know I'm not thesmartest guy, that comes easily
to me to respect and listen andtrust other people and what they
have to say, and I think theyfeel that because it's genuine
and they give their best to theorganization because of it.
And that's what we are reallyexperiencing this year in
(12:54):
particular, where we're havingthis historic growth, but it
doesn't necessarily feel likewe've already quadrupled our
normal year of growth, which wehave, because it feels like
people are really well motivated, they're doing well, they're
doing well and so, yeah, Iprobably lean toward the empower
(13:22):
others side of things asopposed to try to have my
fingers on most things.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, no-transcript have autonomy where it's like I
(14:02):
own this thing and so that's anawesome leadership style of
saying like this is I trust you,I know that you're capable and
I don't need to, you know, keepmy finger on the pulse to make
sure that it's alive, becauseunder your tutelage it's going
to be an awesome tree one day.
You know, I did have a questionon kind of that leadership.
(14:24):
So last year on the hot seatyou were asked about a question
about like early on in yourcareer and you said it was kind
of a funny story where you hadyour first skilled nursing
experience where they soundslike you kind of were thrown
into a trash can fire and thenyou got out 90 days later or six
months, I can't remember, andyou're like never doing that, at
(14:45):
least I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I forgot how long it's.
Yeah, but you're, you're likenever again.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
and then a family member got you back in but you
said that something that youlearned was that your pride and
ego drove you to care more aboutbeing liked by your staff and
then the results and making likethose hard decisions to make
sure that it's a profitableoperation of the facility.
So how do you balance what kindof feels counterintuitive,
where your nature arecounterintuitive to your nature,
(15:14):
and like getting results aboveall, kind of even though you're
a seemingly very caring personand it's hard to do those things
when ultimately some peoplearen't going to like you because
you have to make hard decisions?
How do you balance that?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, that is that is .
That was a really formationalexperience for me and, lucky for
me, it came at a very earlypoint in my career.
It was my very first facilitythat I ran and I'm not naturally
a real detail control type guy.
And running a skilled nursingfacility, super regulated, right
(15:56):
, Tons of policies andprocedures and the phrase system
in place is what you hear allthe time.
What's our?
I'm not naturally oriented tobeing a real system process guy
and I thought I don't need toright.
I'm just going to play to mystrengths, and my strengths are,
I mean, come on, who's notgoing to want to work for me?
(16:20):
I just got to get up there tellsome inspiring stories and I'm
going to be the best leaderthey've ever had, and that
ultimately not ultimately, butinitially that was my goal and
it wasn't articulated that wayand I didn't really realize it
until I failed and got fired.
(16:40):
That I realized that my goalwas to be viewed as fill in the
blank, and the blank I filled inwas the best leader they ever
had.
So if your goal is to be viewedas something you're, you're
already in trouble.
You're you're as a leader,right.
(17:04):
As the top person is is you havethe inconvenient responsibility
to, to be responsible forresults, and there's nobody else
to pass that to.
So what I, what I've, what Ilearned then and have learned
over the years, is that ifyou're focused on yourself and
(17:29):
how you're viewed and liked,you're probably not going to
make the hard decisions thatyour A players need you to make.
And it's because you toleratesome C players, some C
performance, some C attitude,and that really ends up
(17:53):
frustrating.
You think you're being allnoble and virtuous and merciful
and kind and patient for this Cplayer and that's fine.
Give second chances, of course,to people who deserve them, and
the people who deserve thosesecond chances and coaching are
the people who create attitudes.
(18:13):
Defenses and coaching are thepeople who create attitudes.
But if they continue tounderperform, then what that's
going to do is it's going tocause so much strain and
frustration on your A playersthat they're going to burn out
(18:36):
and leave results.
And you you have to realizethat those results are going to
come from great people workingtogether really well, and so
then, that's really what you'refocused on.
You're, you're not focused onbeing popular with everybody and
you're going to just and theother thing that you realize,
caleb, is that if you're, if youhave these folks that are
(18:59):
underperforming, they'reprobably not very happy right
yeah, nobody likes to lose, evenif they're not competitive even
if you're talking about a nurseor a marketing person or a
housekeeper or a cook or whoeveryou're talking about, Like if
(19:20):
they're constantly being coachedand criticized and this and
that, and look this, you're nothere.
We need you here.
They're probably not in theright seat.
Yeah, it seems like the mostsuccessful people find the seat
on the bus where they're verynaturally, very naturally
(19:40):
perform well, and so sometimesyou got to move people from seat
to seat.
You coach them.
Ultimately, if they're notgoing to perform, you help them
find some place where they'regoing to actually thrive.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
And that's ultimately the most charitable thing you
can do.
I had a mentor of mine that Ihad a similar not quite to that
extent, but it was where therewas somebody that wasn't doing
what needed to be done in theseat and my mentor said that
he's like you want to becharitable.
You're a charitable person,you're a caring person within
(20:20):
your organization.
You're never going to be ableto have the excess income or the
excess profit or anything to becharitable in a meaningful way,
like you can be, charitable toone person and never grow the
company the way that needs to begrown.
So you can invest and donatewhatever percentage to whatever
cause you feel is important, oryou can make that hard decision
(20:43):
and Um and or that.
Have that, not even a harddecision, have the hard
conversation Cause ultimatelythen it ends up kind of being
their decision as well, of likethis is what the seat entails.
I don't think it.
I don't think there's a meshright there.
There's this other thing thatmight not be um, as high paying
or as in the same vertical or ordepartment in the organization.
(21:07):
If you want to go to that andif they don't decide that, you
know like, help them have thosedecisions, but some incredibly
meaningful advice of help themfind where they can be best, and
then that's really thecharitable thing is, get them to
where they can win, and if it'sdefinitely not in your
organization, then let them knowthat so that way they can feel
like they're winning wherever,whatever organization that they
(21:30):
fit into.
Right, you know, I love that.
The other question that I hadsorry, I have all the questions
that I'm trying to find it oh,on kind of that same vein of
just your style and things.
You are also like, aself-confessed member of the 5
(21:52):
am club.
So how does starting your dayearly and impact your
productivity and then, overall,just your ability to be a great
leader?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Well, you caught me on a good day.
I can't say I'm very distant,uh, as consistent as I'd like to
be with it.
But today, I happened to to be auh, a faithful member of that
club.
Um, you know what, what Inotice, and I actually just
noticed this on Sunday.
So on Sunday I was reflectingon um, on the momentum or lack
(22:28):
thereof that I have in mydifferent areas of
responsibility in my life, and Irealized that I wasn't feeling
as productive and effective insome areas as I should, and it
dawned on me that I had stoppedsome really important habits a
(22:53):
few months ago because of just aton of travel that I had.
So you travel, you get out ofyour rhythm, you come home and
you're playing catch-up, itseems like, and next thing you
know, a few months have gone byand you haven't been faithful to
the habits that have broughtyou success.
So it was just this week verytimely your question is very
(23:14):
timely.
Just a week that I got back tomy practice of starting each
week with this, so um, startingeach week with this, so, um, so,
wake up.
You know you wake up around5.00 AM, I, I study, I read in
the morning, pray um, work out.
(23:35):
I have to have about at leastan hour to work out and then um,
send the kids off to school andum, and then come to work.
And when I get to work onMonday, what I do is I, I do
this for the week and I foundthat monthly goals are too,
their timeframe is too long.
(23:56):
But if I can set weeklyobjectives for myself over all
these areas, then that's whenI'm really, I feel, dialed in.
And so on the left-hand sidethis is all work related I've
got um areas of responsibilityand what I want to give
attention to for investmentswith my board, because we have
(24:17):
our board meeting next week uh,investor relations and some
finance, some financingactivities.
Those are kind of some thingsthat I'm working on this week.
And then on the right-hand sideI've got my wife's name Jess,
kids, spirit, body, communityservice, son, brother, friend
(24:38):
and CEO.
And then underneath each ofthose I have one or two things
that I want to accomplish.
So one thing was one-on-onetime with my son, and last night
I went to dinner.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I took him to dinner just the two of us.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
We had Indian food and had a heart-to-heart that
was much needed.
But if I hadn't kind of plannedmy week thoughtfully,
intentionally, around thedifferent areas of
responsibility, that I could gomonths without really having it
(25:15):
occur to me that I need to havesome one-on-one time with my son
.
It's so easy just to driftthrough life.
It's so easy just to driftthrough life.
That 5 am club helps a lotbecause it gives you that time
to get your day started right.
When you come into work you'vealready accomplished so much,
you're already so productive.
(25:35):
You want to not lose thatmomentum throughout the day.
The days that I don't do thatand I wake up at 6.30 or 7 or
something and I'm kind ofrushing to get the kids out and
get to work.
It's a totally different vibe.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I love that a lot.
I'm going to implement thatright now because it's so easy,
especially if you're reallydriven and you're early on in
your career or you're gettingrevitalized and you're really
diving into your work.
It's easy to set those goalsbecause you have measurables,
you have these metrics thatyou're trying to hit.
So it's like, okay, these arethe.
(26:12):
You know the five to seventhings and if I move these
forward this week, I'm going tokill it at work.
And then you get home and likethe rest of your life.
I love the right hand side ofthe page where it's like here's
all the different seats in mypersonal life that I'm sitting
in.
What can I do this week toprogress?
Like that's something that Ineed to.
That was a great reminder forme.
(26:32):
So, thank you, I need to.
I need to dial in all the otherside.
I feel like I'm doing prettygood on the left side of the
page, but the right hand side ofthe the page needs some
improvement.
And then the other kind of keythat I think people need to,
where you had, as you werereflecting on Sunday.
Basically, you're like thinkingback to when was I feeling
(26:54):
really dialed in last?
And then you're like, oh mygosh, it was when I was doing 5
am.
It was when I was waking up andexercising and doing all my
goals and I'm just going tostart doing that again, and then
you get dialed in again.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So think about a time in your life.
Yeah, that's the thing aboutmomentum, right, I played a lot
of sports, I played basketball alot, and momentum in a game can
switch, just like that.
And if you look at the wordmomentum, it starts with the
word moment and momentumswitches in a moment.
(27:26):
It is literally you're having abad day, you realize it.
You can change that in onemoment, just like in a game, and
it doesn't take days and weeksand months.
It just takes a moment to wakeup and make a better choice, and
then that creates some dominoes.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And thinking about in the day-to-day life of people,
kind of in the senior care spacetoo, where you maybe you're
feeling momentum, like the day'sgoing so well and then you get
like a family member call andthen all of a sudden it's like,
and the momentum, everythingthat it was like, oh my gosh,
we're gonna have the best monthof our, of our life, of our
existence.
And then that one calling likecrap, there's all my momentum,
(28:12):
but it's just that anotherfinding that next moment to
switch it back on.
It's kind of cool that I likethat.
All it takes is a moment.
Um, the this 30 minutes has, um, I have like a few more or the
last two kind of questions.
Um, I am curious, what role doyou think REITs, like care trust
, will kind of play in thesenior living industry, cause
(28:35):
the demand is growing so much,especially over the next decade?
I've seen different articlesabout how the demand is growing
faster than building, becausethese, these big building, the
commercial real estate, it takestime to move everything along.
There's just so much red tape.
So what role do you think theyplay?
(28:55):
Or what kind of projections doyou have in the REIT and
long-term senior care space overthe next decade?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, so for our company for health care reads
you know you look, you'relooking at skilled nursing or
seniors housing, assisted livingright abilities.
And you're right, because ofinterest rates and covid, the,
the building boom really pausedand it's going to take quite a
(29:23):
while for that to start up againand catch up to the demand.
So you know, reits are acapital partner for operators.
That's how you really think of.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
REITs.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
They have banks that can help them grow and acquire
facilities.
They have reits that can helpby acquiring facilities for them
and just lease them theproperties.
Um, we don't do.
We personally don't do much inthe in the world of developing
or building new locations.
There's so many opportunitiesto grow just through acquisition
(30:02):
of people who are exiting thebusiness.
That's where we spend most ofour time.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Very cool.
Are there any trends that yousee on the other side of so
those other, because there are alot of developers out there or
what I guess?
What market shifts shouldpeople be looking for to be able
to see that like?
Is it interest rates dropping,that kind of create the boom
again?
Or or what things do you lookfor?
Because I mean, as, as they'regetting developed, then you can
(30:29):
go around acquiring them as well.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But yeah, I think so I think.
I think just the cost ofcapital has kept a lot of people
on the sidelines and they'rewaiting for those, those
interest rates, to come down sothat their borrowing costs
become better, and it makesthese investments for them
pencil, because right now theydon't.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, and then we're out of time, which I'm really
sad about.
I was loving getting intoMomentum and the 5 am Club and
all this stuff.
So this went really fastgetting into Momentum and the 5
am Club and all this stuff, sothis went really fast.
But the last question I'd liketo ask is what advice, if you
had one or two pieces, would yougive for people getting into
their career?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
whether it's in the senior care space or more into
the like a REIT type space.
I'll tell you, the folks thatrise the fastest, that get the
raises, that get the promotions,that really grow the most,
whether they do it on purpose ornot, they make their bosses,
their immediate supervisors'life as easy and as good as
(31:44):
possible.
It's the employee who is morefocused on what's in it for them
, how they're being treated,what experience they're getting
that tends to not get recognizedand promoted, et cetera.
It's, it's the person thatbecomes just invaluable to their
(32:05):
boss.
That either as that boss risesand they, they got to take them
with them or if there'sopportunities to lose that
person would be a sin and soyou're going to be promoting
that person.
So it's a little bitparadoxical, because I've
interviewed and met with somepeople who, when they interview,
(32:27):
their question is around youknow what can?
What kind of experience canyour company provide me?
Because the question that I wantto hear is one that exposes the
(32:48):
mindset or the orientation of.
I am so hungry to make adifference in your company.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know, am I going to be able to do that?
Am I going to be able to?
You know, if that's theattitude that you have and
you're less focused on you knowyour experience and what you're
getting from it, you're going torise a lot faster.
You have much more success.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And I think, ultimately have a better
experience yourself becauseyou're, because you're rising.
It's fun to rise, it's fun tobe invaluable, but I like that a
lot.
Become the person or theindividual that the idea of you
leaving is like a nightmare foryour director board.
They wake up with cold sweatslike, oh my gosh, caleb or Joe
(33:34):
or Schmo anybody, they can'tleave please.
So I love that.
That's great advice.
Well, dave, thanks so much fortaking some time.
Sorry, I went a little bit over.
It was fun talking to you andlearning about REITs.
I hadn't.
I kind of had a concept of it,but now I really understand and
it's plays a valuable part inthe whole senior care ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
So I appreciate what you do Uh enjoyed the time with
you, Caleb.
Best of luck to you.
Welcome to the Senior Care Academy.
Today on our show, we'rethrilled to have Dave Sedgwick,
president and CEO of CareTrustREIT, joining us.
Dave has been with CareTrustsince its inception in 2014,
guiding the company's strategicgrowth in areas such as new
investments, tenant relationsand portfolio management.
Before CareTrust, dave heldseveral leadership roles at
(00:23):
Enzyme Group, where heaccumulated over 12 years of
experience in post-acute careand senior living.
Dave's career path, frommanaging skilled nursing
facilities to overseeing one ofthe most dynamic healthcare
REITs in the industry, is trulyinspiring.
Beyond his impressive businessacumen, he's a licensed nursing
home administrator and apassionate traveler who's always
eager to learn and to share newideas.
(00:45):
We are looking forward todiving into his journey and
insights on the future ofhealthcare real estate.
So, Dave, thanks for coming onand welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, happy to be here.
Thanks, Caleb.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah.
So I kind of want to jump in.
You've been with CareTrustsince the beginning and it's
pretty exceptional what you guyshave done.
What is kind of the originalvision behind Care Trust REIT
and how has it evolved over thelast decade?
Not too many businesses arepublicly traded and not too many
businesses actually havemeaningful growth over a decade.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, Well, I guess, to go back, our story really
starts back in 1999, when theskilled nursing operating
company, the Ensign Group, wasborn.
I started there in the earlydays, became an administrator,
ran a handful of facilities forthe company.
(01:37):
In 2007, ensign went public andalong the way, it had acquired
quite a bit of its own realestate.
So it's running skilled nursingfacilities.
In some cases it's leasing thebuildings on long-term leases
from different landlords,including other REITs, and in
(01:57):
other cases it's actuallyacquiring the real estate itself
.
So by about 2014 or 10 years ago, we had realized that we had
acquired a lot of real estateand we weren't really getting
credit for the value of thatreal estate and in a way, to
sort of unlock that value, wetook 97 properties that we owned
(02:22):
outright and spun it off into apublic company.
That's a REIT.
Now, a lot of people don't knowwhat a REIT is.
Yeah, it stands for Real EstateInvestment Trust.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And it's really just a type of company that the
federal government created sothat Joe Public can own
commercial real estate.
So what that means is if,before a REIT was formed, it'd
be virtually impossible for youor me to own commercial real
(03:00):
estate because we don't havethat kind of money.
Tens, hundreds of millions ofdollars.
Yeah, geez, right and like ifyou wanted to own a shopping
center or a manhattan office orhospital or whatever that's,
that's reserved for a veryselect few people.
Well, a re is created as a wayto have everybody who wants to
(03:23):
not just buy a share of ibm orapple or whatever, but you can
also buy a share of thecommercial real estate in the
country and so then thesedifferent sectors were created
to specialize in health careREITs or office or industrial
REITs and things like that.
And so what we did is we spunout the 97 properties into Care
(03:47):
Trust REIT and on day one, 10years ago, we had one operator,
one tenant, the Ensign Groupthat leased their own buildings
from us, and we then had to.
The idea then was well, and wethen had to.
The idea then was well, nopublic company investor is going
(04:09):
to be comfortable with just onetenant or one operator, it's
all your hands in one basket.
Even if it's Ensign who's a bluechip operator and bulletproof
credit.
It still makes people nervous.
So you have to diversify yourportfolio, and what that meant
for us is we're going to growwith new operators so that the
(04:31):
Ensign percentage comes down,and that's what we've done.
So today we have somewherearound 30% of our business is
with the Ensign group oh wow.
Percent of our business is withthe Ensign group oh wow.
And the other two thirds iswith new operators.
That we've gotten to know, thatwe knew from our operating days
(04:52):
at Ensign and that we've gottento know since we started.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
So putting it back basically a REIT, you buy
nursing homes or skilled nursingfacilities and then I can then
go invest in CareLife REIT orCareTrust sorry REIT and I own
it.
And then the operator orwhatever entity that the C-Corp
(05:18):
that's an operator, the LLCthat's operating a skilled
nursing rents that buildingright.
Am I saying?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
that right?
Yes, very interesting.
For example, a lot of our weown buildings that are operated
currently by you mentionedbefore we started PAX.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Or the Ensign Group, or Lynx, or Bayshire or Duro,
Cascadia, um uh covenant care.
There's all these differentoperators.
So you go to a PAX facility.
You don't really know, as afamily member, as a patient who
(05:59):
owns the real estate you know,that PAX is the operator and
that's all that really matters,right?
So you walk into an ensignfacility estate, you know that
PACS is the operator and that'sall that really matters, right?
So you walk into an Ensignfacility.
We have virtually zero controlor influence over operations.
So whether PACS owns their ownproperty or they lease it from
(06:23):
us on a 15-year lease, thepatient experience is the same.
The employee experience is thesame because Pax has 100%
control in both of thosescenarios.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's similar to an office space, right Like you own
.
If somebody owns an officebuilding they don't necessarily
have control.
They can deny people that wantto work in their space but, like
the company that's in thebuilding operating it, if they
have one star review, it's noton them necessarily.
They just own the land thatit's on.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, well, that's very interesting and I am.
This is not one of thequestions I was planning on, but
I'm curious as far as investingin just different publicly
traded stocks, how does, how doREITs compare to, like I said,
apple, these other liketechnology or service or product
(07:16):
companies, cause I feel like,where it's based on real estate
and it's always appreciating,like, how does it, is it a safer
bet?
For me, it feels like it wouldbe a safer bet to go with my
dollars as a as a Joe investorand invest in a REIT.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah.
So that's a great question.
And there's not.
I mean Apple, nvidia, netflix.
They can't compete with skillednursing real estate in terms of
sex appeal, right?
I mean?
There's nothing sexier thaninvesting in nursing homes.
That's a joke.
I'm glad you get it.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah, nobody yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No one's going to.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
If you go to a second grade class, probably at least
80% of the kids are going to sayI want to be a nursing home
administrator one day, right,exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
a nursing home administrator one day, right,
exactly so when you think aboutinvesting in public companies in
security.
We all kind of know aboutportfolio allocation.
And that allocation is going tobe a function of your appetite
for risk, so you're going tohave of your appetite for risk,
so you're going to have.
You know, if you invest in tech, you're probably going to have
(08:28):
more upside.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
but you also?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
have the volatility with it.
So higher risk, higher reward.
The reason REITs are viewedprimarily as like an income part
of your portfolio.
So you're investing in techtype stocks for the stock price
depreciation potential that ithas.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You invest in REITs because, in order to be a REIT
technically, you have todistribute at least 90% of all
of your income every year out toyour shareholders.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Wow.
So we can't even all thisincome that we get from our
operators that pay us rent.
We can't retain that andredeploy that into growth.
We have to distribute 90% of itout in the form of dividends.
That's crazy 90% of it out inthe form of dividends.
That's crazy.
And so REITs are really.
They're kind of a safe incomesystem, part of your portfolio.
(09:32):
Now, care, trust.
We try to be both, we try to bethat safe income producing
stock.
But we also have a prettytremendous growth story that a
lot of regions don't have, andso people invest in care, trust
who who want a little bit of ofboth of that action yeah,
(09:52):
because you've grown so if youstarted with 97, um enzyme
buildings and now you guys areover 200, right?
Yeah, we're over 200.
We have 23 or somethingoperators that lease from us.
Wow, um, yeah, so we've gonefrom I think we started at
around 50 million of revenue andtoday it's closer to 220
(10:17):
million of of, uh, just rentplus interest revenue takes us
up yeah that's so when we.
When we spun out, our marketcap was just below 500 million.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Last year.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Last summer we were at about 2.5 billion, wow, and
at this point, year to date,we've grown that to about 5
billion.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So we've been on a pretty meteoric increase, yes,
especially it sounds like forREITs where, like, pretty
meteoric, yes, especially itsounds like for reits where,
like, if you only have 10 ofyour, your income to try to grow
, to be able to grow like thatin 10 years with 10 of your
income, um is crazy, impressive.
So that's really cool as far asgrowing that like the leadership
(11:10):
style of it.
I was looking at differentinterviews.
You were on one like early lastyear with CareLife or something
I can't remember.
It was like the hot seat, butyou're like successfully leading
companies like that.
And then the 10 years beforeyou went into CareTrust you've
managed to successfully leadcompanies through different
(11:30):
stages of growth.
How would you describe the waythat you try to lead and then
what principles are guiding youon the way that you lead?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Um, I think one of my , one of my advantages is that I
I have a pretty good awarenessof my limitations and I know
that here at Care Trust, I'm notthe smartest guy in the room,
(12:05):
and so we have to have I have tohave really exceptionally
competent, talented people, andso I try to create an
environment where they want tobe.
Most exceptionally talenteddriven people prefer not to be
really micromanaged.
They prefer to be empowered,respected, listened to and
(12:31):
because I know I'm not thesmartest guy, that comes easily
to me to respect and listen andtrust other people and what they
have to say, and I think theyfeel that because it's genuine
and they give their best to theorganization because of it.
And that's what we are reallyexperiencing this year in
(12:54):
particular, where we're havingthis historic growth, but it
doesn't necessarily feel likewe've already quadrupled our
normal year of growth, which wehave, because it feels like
people are really well motivated, they're doing well, they're
doing well and so, yeah, Iprobably lean toward the empower
(13:22):
others side of things asopposed to try to have my
fingers on most things.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, no-transcript have autonomy where it's like I
(14:02):
own this thing and so that's anawesome leadership style of
saying like this is I trust you,I know that you're capable and
I don't need to, you know, keepmy finger on the pulse to make
sure that it's alive, becauseunder your tutelage it's going
to be an awesome tree one day.
You know, I did have a questionon kind of that leadership.
(14:24):
So last year on the hot seatyou were asked about a question
about like early on in yourcareer and you said it was kind
of a funny story where you hadyour first skilled nursing
experience where they soundslike you kind of were thrown
into a trash can fire and thenyou got out 90 days later or six
months, I can't remember, andyou're like never doing that, at
(14:45):
least I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I forgot how long it's.
Yeah, but you're, you're likenever again.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
and then a family member got you back in but you
said that something that youlearned was that your pride and
ego drove you to care more aboutbeing liked by your staff and
then the results and making likethose hard decisions to make
sure that it's a profitableoperation of the facility.
So how do you balance what kindof feels counterintuitive,
where your nature arecounterintuitive to your nature,
(15:14):
and like getting results aboveall, kind of even though you're
a seemingly very caring personand it's hard to do those things
when ultimately some peoplearen't going to like you because
you have to make hard decisions?
How do you balance that?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, that is that is .
That was a really formationalexperience for me and, lucky for
me, it came at a very earlypoint in my career.
It was my very first facilitythat I ran and I'm not naturally
a real detail control type guy.
And running a skilled nursingfacility, super regulated, right
(15:56):
, Tons of policies andprocedures and the phrase system
in place is what you hear allthe time.
What's our?
I'm not naturally oriented tobeing a real system process guy
and I thought I don't need toright.
I'm just going to play to mystrengths, and my strengths are,
I mean, come on, who's notgoing to want to work for me?
(16:20):
I just got to get up there tellsome inspiring stories and I'm
going to be the best leaderthey've ever had, and that
ultimately not ultimately, butinitially that was my goal and
it wasn't articulated that wayand I didn't really realize it
until I failed and got fired.
(16:40):
That I realized that my goalwas to be viewed as fill in the
blank, and the blank I filled inwas the best leader they ever
had.
So if your goal is to be viewedas something you're, you're
already in trouble.
You're you're as a leader,right.
(17:04):
As the top person is is you havethe inconvenient responsibility
to, to be responsible forresults, and there's nobody else
to pass that to.
So what I, what I've, what Ilearned then and have learned
over the years, is that ifyou're focused on yourself and
(17:29):
how you're viewed and liked,you're probably not going to
make the hard decisions thatyour A players need you to make.
And it's because you toleratesome C players, some C
performance, some C attitude,and that really ends up
(17:53):
frustrating.
You think you're being allnoble and virtuous and merciful
and kind and patient for this Cplayer and that's fine.
Give second chances, of course,to people who deserve them, and
the people who deserve thosesecond chances and coaching are
the people who create attitudes.
(18:13):
Defenses and coaching are thepeople who create attitudes.
But if they continue tounderperform, then what that's
going to do is it's going tocause so much strain and
frustration on your A playersthat they're going to burn out
(18:36):
and leave results.
And you you have to realizethat those results are going to
come from great people workingtogether really well, and so
then, that's really what you'refocused on.
You're, you're not focused onbeing popular with everybody and
you're going to just and theother thing that you realize,
caleb, is that if you're, if youhave these folks that are
(18:59):
underperforming, they'reprobably not very happy right
yeah, nobody likes to lose, evenif they're not competitive even
if you're talking about a nurseor a marketing person or a
housekeeper or a cook or whoeveryou're talking about, Like if
(19:20):
they're constantly being coachedand criticized and this and
that, and look this, you're nothere.
We need you here.
They're probably not in theright seat.
Yeah, it seems like the mostsuccessful people find the seat
on the bus where they're verynaturally, very naturally
(19:40):
perform well, and so sometimesyou got to move people from seat
to seat.
You coach them.
Ultimately, if they're notgoing to perform, you help them
find some place where they'regoing to actually thrive.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
And that's ultimately the most charitable thing you
can do.
I had a mentor of mine that Ihad a similar not quite to that
extent, but it was where therewas somebody that wasn't doing
what needed to be done in theseat and my mentor said that
he's like you want to becharitable.
You're a charitable person,you're a caring person within
(20:20):
your organization.
You're never going to be ableto have the excess income or the
excess profit or anything to becharitable in a meaningful way,
like you can be, charitable toone person and never grow the
company the way that needs to begrown.
So you can invest and donatewhatever percentage to whatever
cause you feel is important, oryou can make that hard decision
(20:43):
and Um and or that.
Have that, not even a harddecision, have the hard
conversation Cause ultimatelythen it ends up kind of being
their decision as well, of likethis is what the seat entails.
I don't think it.
I don't think there's a meshright there.
There's this other thing thatmight not be um, as high paying
or as in the same vertical or ordepartment in the organization.
(21:07):
If you want to go to that andif they don't decide that, you
know like, help them have thosedecisions, but some incredibly
meaningful advice of help themfind where they can be best, and
then that's really thecharitable thing is, get them to
where they can win, and if it'sdefinitely not in your
organization, then let them knowthat so that way they can feel
like they're winning wherever,whatever organization that they
(21:30):
fit into.
Right, you know, I love that.
The other question that I hadsorry, I have all the questions
that I'm trying to find it oh,on kind of that same vein of
just your style and things.
You are also like, aself-confessed member of the 5
(21:52):
am club.
So how does starting your dayearly and impact your
productivity and then, overall,just your ability to be a great
leader?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Well, you caught me on a good day.
I can't say I'm very distant,uh, as consistent as I'd like to
be with it.
But today, I happened to to be auh, a faithful member of that
club.
Um, you know what, what Inotice, and I actually just
noticed this on Sunday.
So on Sunday I was reflectingon um, on the momentum or lack
(22:28):
thereof that I have in mydifferent areas of
responsibility in my life, and Irealized that I wasn't feeling
as productive and effective insome areas as I should, and it
dawned on me that I had stoppedsome really important habits a
(22:53):
few months ago because of just aton of travel that I had.
So you travel, you get out ofyour rhythm, you come home and
you're playing catch-up, itseems like, and next thing you
know, a few months have gone byand you haven't been faithful to
the habits that have broughtyou success.
So it was just this week verytimely your question is very
(23:14):
timely.
Just a week that I got back tomy practice of starting each
week with this, so um, startingeach week with this, so, um, so,
wake up.
You know you wake up around5.00 AM, I, I study, I read in
the morning, pray um, work out.
(23:35):
I have to have about at leastan hour to work out and then um,
send the kids off to school andum, and then come to work.
And when I get to work onMonday, what I do is I, I do
this for the week and I foundthat monthly goals are too,
their timeframe is too long.
(23:56):
But if I can set weeklyobjectives for myself over all
these areas, then that's whenI'm really, I feel, dialed in.
And so on the left-hand sidethis is all work related I've
got um areas of responsibilityand what I want to give
attention to for investmentswith my board, because we have
(24:17):
our board meeting next week uh,investor relations and some
finance, some financingactivities.
Those are kind of some thingsthat I'm working on this week.
And then on the right-hand sideI've got my wife's name Jess,
kids, spirit, body, communityservice, son, brother, friend
(24:38):
and CEO.
And then underneath each ofthose I have one or two things
that I want to accomplish.
So one thing was one-on-onetime with my son, and last night
I went to dinner.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I took him to dinner just the two of us.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
We had Indian food and had a heart-to-heart that
was much needed.
But if I hadn't kind of plannedmy week thoughtfully,
intentionally, around thedifferent areas of
responsibility, that I could gomonths without really having it
(25:15):
occur to me that I need to havesome one-on-one time with my son
.
It's so easy just to driftthrough life.
It's so easy just to driftthrough life.
That 5 am club helps a lotbecause it gives you that time
to get your day started right.
When you come into work you'vealready accomplished so much,
you're already so productive.
(25:35):
You want to not lose thatmomentum throughout the day.
The days that I don't do thatand I wake up at 6.30 or 7 or
something and I'm kind ofrushing to get the kids out and
get to work.
It's a totally different vibe.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I love that a lot.
I'm going to implement thatright now because it's so easy,
especially if you're reallydriven and you're early on in
your career or you're gettingrevitalized and you're really
diving into your work.
It's easy to set those goalsbecause you have measurables,
you have these metrics thatyou're trying to hit.
So it's like, okay, these arethe.
(26:12):
You know the five to seventhings and if I move these
forward this week, I'm going tokill it at work.
And then you get home and likethe rest of your life.
I love the right hand side ofthe page where it's like here's
all the different seats in mypersonal life that I'm sitting
in.
What can I do this week toprogress?
Like that's something that Ineed to.
That was a great reminder forme.
(26:32):
So, thank you, I need to.
I need to dial in all the otherside.
I feel like I'm doing prettygood on the left side of the
page, but the right hand side ofthe the page needs some
improvement.
And then the other kind of keythat I think people need to,
where you had, as you werereflecting on Sunday.
Basically, you're like thinkingback to when was I feeling
(26:54):
really dialed in last?
And then you're like, oh mygosh, it was when I was doing 5
am.
It was when I was waking up andexercising and doing all my
goals and I'm just going tostart doing that again, and then
you get dialed in again.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So think about a time in your life.
Yeah, that's the thing aboutmomentum, right, I played a lot
of sports, I played basketball alot, and momentum in a game can
switch, just like that.
And if you look at the wordmomentum, it starts with the
word moment and momentumswitches in a moment.
(27:26):
It is literally you're having abad day, you realize it.
You can change that in onemoment, just like in a game, and
it doesn't take days and weeksand months.
It just takes a moment to wakeup and make a better choice, and
then that creates some dominoes.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And thinking about in the day-to-day life of people,
kind of in the senior care spacetoo, where you maybe you're
feeling momentum, like the day'sgoing so well and then you get
like a family member call andthen all of a sudden it's like,
and the momentum, everythingthat it was like, oh my gosh,
we're gonna have the best monthof our, of our life, of our
existence.
And then that one calling likecrap, there's all my momentum,
(28:12):
but it's just that anotherfinding that next moment to
switch it back on.
It's kind of cool that I likethat.
All it takes is a moment.
Um, the this 30 minutes has, um, I have like a few more or the
last two kind of questions.
Um, I am curious, what role doyou think REITs, like care trust
, will kind of play in thesenior living industry, cause
(28:35):
the demand is growing so much,especially over the next decade?
I've seen different articlesabout how the demand is growing
faster than building, becausethese, these big building, the
commercial real estate, it takestime to move everything along.
There's just so much red tape.
So what role do you think theyplay?
(28:55):
Or what kind of projections doyou have in the REIT and
long-term senior care space overthe next decade?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, so for our company for health care reads
you know you look, you'relooking at skilled nursing or
seniors housing, assisted livingright abilities.
And you're right, because ofinterest rates and covid, the,
the building boom really pausedand it's going to take quite a
(29:23):
while for that to start up againand catch up to the demand.
So you know, reits are acapital partner for operators.
That's how you really think of.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
REITs.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
They have banks that can help them grow and acquire
facilities.
They have reits that can helpby acquiring facilities for them
and just lease them theproperties.
Um, we don't do.
We personally don't do much inthe in the world of developing
or building new locations.
There's so many opportunitiesto grow just through acquisition
(30:02):
of people who are exiting thebusiness.
That's where we spend most ofour time.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Very cool.
Are there any trends that yousee on the other side of so
those other, because there are alot of developers out there or
what I guess?
What market shifts shouldpeople be looking for to be able
to see that like?
Is it interest rates dropping,that kind of create the boom
again?
Or or what things do you lookfor?
Because I mean, as, as they'regetting developed, then you can
(30:29):
go around acquiring them as well.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But yeah, I think so I think.
I think just the cost ofcapital has kept a lot of people
on the sidelines and they'rewaiting for those, those
interest rates, to come down sothat their borrowing costs
become better, and it makesthese investments for them
pencil, because right now theydon't.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, and then we're out of time, which I'm really
sad about.
I was loving getting intoMomentum and the 5 am Club and
all this stuff.
So this went really fastgetting into Momentum and the 5
am Club and all this stuff, sothis went really fast.
But the last question I'd liketo ask is what advice, if you
had one or two pieces, would yougive for people getting into
their career?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
whether it's in the senior care space or more into
the like a REIT type space.
I'll tell you, the folks thatrise the fastest, that get the
raises, that get the promotions,that really grow the most,
whether they do it on purpose ornot, they make their bosses,
their immediate supervisors'life as easy and as good as
(31:44):
possible.
It's the employee who is morefocused on what's in it for them
, how they're being treated,what experience they're getting
that tends to not get recognizedand promoted, et cetera.
It's, it's the person thatbecomes just invaluable to their
(32:05):
boss.
That either as that boss risesand they, they got to take them
with them or if there'sopportunities to lose that
person would be a sin and soyou're going to be promoting
that person.
So it's a little bitparadoxical, because I've
interviewed and met with somepeople who, when they interview,
(32:27):
their question is around youknow what can?
What kind of experience canyour company provide me?
Because the question that I wantto hear is one that exposes the
(32:48):
mindset or the orientation of.
I am so hungry to make adifference in your company.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know, am I going to be able to do that?
Am I going to be able to?
You know, if that's theattitude that you have and
you're less focused on you knowyour experience and what you're
getting from it, you're going torise a lot faster.
You have much more success.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And I think, ultimately have a better
experience yourself becauseyou're, because you're rising.
It's fun to rise, it's fun tobe invaluable, but I like that a
lot.
Become the person or theindividual that the idea of you
leaving is like a nightmare foryour director board.
They wake up with cold sweatslike, oh my gosh, caleb or Joe
(33:34):
or Schmo anybody, they can'tleave please.
So I love that.
That's great advice.
Well, dave, thanks so much fortaking some time.
Sorry, I went a little bit over.
It was fun talking to you andlearning about REITs.
I hadn't.
I kind of had a concept of it,but now I really understand and
it's plays a valuable part inthe whole senior care ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
So I appreciate what you do Uh enjoyed the time with
you, Caleb.
Best of luck to you.
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