October 16, 2024 • 30 mins
Experience the journey of Katie Tanner, our guest whose path led her from zookeeping to head of HR at multiple firms.
Through her unique perspective, Katie uncovers the essential role empathy plays in effective HR management and shares her commitment to being an approachable ally for employees. Her insightful concept of "coaching up or coaching out" provides a fresh take on aligning individual growth with organizational culture.
Discover the intricacies of scaling a company from 11,000 to 35,000 employees in just two years without compromising staff morale or patient care. Katie shares her experiences with creative employee appreciation strategies that bypass bureaucratic hurdles, offering a playbook for those navigating rapid organizational growth. Our conversation delves into the high-stakes world of mergers and acquisitions, particularly in healthcare, where aligning cultures and maintaining transparent communication are crucial for success.
Join us as we unpack the critical role HR plays during organizational transitions, focusing on early involvement and proactive strategies to ensure workforce stability and satisfaction. Katie's firsthand experiences in the post-acute care sector shed light on the challenges and opportunities of moving between organizations of different sizes. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to gain valuable insights into the complexities of healthcare and HR leadership, as well as practical advice on navigating similar challenges in their own professional journeys.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our guest today is Katie Tanner, senior
Professional in Human Resources,sphr and Senior Human Resources
Manager at Helperly.
Before Helperly, she worked inthe post-acute care space as a
VP of HR at PAX, taking themfrom 50 buildings to over 200
and pre-IPO.
With over a decade ofexperience across HR functions,
(00:20):
such as mergers and acquisitions, policy development, employee
engagement, katie brings awealth of knowledge and passion
for putting the human back inhuman resources.
She's here to share herinsights on leading with empathy
, developing people-firstpolicies and fostering cultures
that drive business success.
We're excited to dive intoKatie's wealth of knowledge and
learn more about her approach toHR leadership.
(00:42):
Thanks for coming on, katie.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yes, of course, so kind of jumping into it.
What originally got you startedin HR?
We talked a little bit beforeabout how you were a zookeeper
and doing all this fun stuff,and then you got into HR and
then I had to get a real jobright so I had.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's kind of funny like no one really goes to
school thinking I want to be inhuman resources for the rest of
my life and deal with all theseissues.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So I had just graduated and I just needed a
job.
My very first job after Igraduated college was at a
nursing home and I was sittingat their front desk just
answering phones and that'sabout it.
And so I was there for about amonth and their payroll person
(01:34):
went out on maternity leave.
So they asked me if I wouldjust do it while she was gone.
I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever.
So I started doing that.
Well, then their HR personmoved out of state, so they
asked me if I would take on thattoo.
And I'm like sure, it can't bethat that that hard, and I just
(01:55):
absolutely kind of love, lovedit and I just kind of rolled
with it.
I I taught myself most mosteverything with it.
I I taught myself most mosteverything, and then I just
absolutely loved it at thatpoint.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, what.
What did you love about it andwhat's kept you?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
going throughout the years and staying in HR.
Yeah, so I have a background inbehavioral science and so I
like the kind of aspect of like,of, of like helping people
react, um, helping people under,uh, understand things that they
might not understand, and justlike helping people um with with
(02:38):
.
With that first job, I had acorporate HR person who was the
scariest person that I had evermet.
The very first time that I mether she was just very short and
very rude and it was very hardto actually ask questions
because she would get really madvery fast.
(03:04):
And so from that point, on.
I just kind of decided that Iwould never be that person,
right, and so, um, and so I justkind of made it my like
personal mission that if I wasgoing to stick with an HR, that
that that I wanted to be the HRperson that people wanted to
talk to, not that they had hadhad to talk to, and so that's
(03:26):
just has, that's just how, how Ihave, like, personally, grown.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, I think that's a great ideal to aspire to it's.
I could see how it's difficult,though, trying to balance that.
So how, over the years, haveyou been able to be the HR
person that's approachable, butalso, when the time comes, being
able to kind of not lay down,lay down the law when you need
to.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Hey, policies are policies and I need to.
So how did you balance that andhow have you?
How would you suggest otherpeople be able to balance that
where they can lean in?
Maybe they're way overlycharismatic and they never lean
in and put their foot down whenthey need to, or they're just a
dictator and they don't have aheart.
How do you meet in the middle?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, I mean it is this very fine balance right Of
like.
We are working with humans.
Humans, naturally, are going tomake mistakes and they are
going to do something wrong, andso you can either choose to
coach people up and then helpthem work out things, or you can
(04:30):
choose to coach them out right,and so you just have to find
that fine line of everybody canbe taught something and maybe
it's not on this team and so I'mgoing to help you learn
something else on another team,right?
But you just have to have thatkind of mindset that people are
(04:57):
going to make mistakes and youhave to have that empathy side,
like no matter what, because ifyou don't have like, if, if you
don't care about your people,then they are not going to care
about your business, and if youdon't have people helping you
run, then you don't have abusiness eventually Right.
(05:20):
And so you just have to findways to keep your people happy.
However that is and it's notnecessarily always with money,
and so that's what I have justkind of ran with, and that's how
I just like running HR stuff isthat if you take care of your
people first, then all of yourprocesses will just naturally
(05:42):
happen.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, yeah, and starting with the people, all
the way back to kind of aculture like coach them up or
coach them out, like it's acharismatic thing to coach them
up into it, cause if you arecoaching them up to fit into the
culture of the place thatyou're working, they're going to
thrive and they're going to behappy.
Um, and so I think it does.
Culture is a very like likebuzzword kind of, but it's kind
(06:07):
of a dirty word.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, what's?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
culture.
It's a tech company that has aping pong table in the break
room, right.
But yeah, like coaching andcaring about them to the point
where, for the charismaticpeople, coaching is showing that
you care about them and for thedictator people like, how about
you reward them for when theydo like those small things?
(06:31):
It doesn't have to be financial, but that helps them stay in
the line.
Let's jump a little bit aboutinto your journey in post acute
care.
You were there for a few yearscrazy growth, yeah.
Talk about how that was versusother roles that you had in HR,
because post-acute or really anyindustry that works with
(06:51):
seniors, I feel like theturnover rate, especially in
direct care staff, can be reallyhigh.
So kind of just walk throughthat.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So healthcare is just its own kind of like beast
right.
And especially post COVID.
There was so many things thathappened, naturally, right.
So most of your businesses,when COVID happened, pivoted and
(07:20):
people are working from homeand their processes are still
happening Well within the24-hour health care world.
That did not happen, right.
We actually started being allof our patients' direct family
at that point.
That's interesting, becausethat's who they saw every single
day, right, and so instead,instead of their family coming
(07:43):
and their family visiting them,we, we, we started being their
actual family every single day,right, um, or their family was,
was um visiting through througha FaceTime call or something
kind of kind of like that, for afor a good like year, kind of
(08:06):
like that for a good like year.
That is how things kind of likewere right.
But again, if you take care ofyour people, then they're gonna
take care of your clients andyour patients and that type of
stuff.
In order to work within thehealthcare field like it takes a
very special person right.
Like they have to actually careabout what they're doing and
(08:27):
they want to come to work notthat they have to come to work,
and so you just have to makethem feel appreciated every
single day, and it could besomething super simple or it
could be something huge, right,but you have to make that happen
.
It doesn't just naturallyhappen and that happens with
(08:50):
really good leaders, it happenswith very, very good processes
and just literally making yourstaff feel like you honestly
care about them every single day.
Yeah, um, especially within thepost acute care world, because
patients are there because theycan't be home.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Um or or because it's not safe in order for them to
be home.
And so you're helping them getto that point, and so that's
where help really kind of takesover.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
So so, um so, it's this kind of just like takes
over, Right, so so so, it's thiskind of just like natural
growth.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, so yeah, it is really interesting thing that I
feel like isn't I mean, peopleknow that it happened, but it
isn't like talked about likeeverybody else?
Covid shut down.
Okay, I guess we're meeting onzoom today?
It's like no, I still have toshow up every single day,
especially in the early dayswhen you, like before we knew
the extent or more about it, itfelt like every day your life
(09:50):
was at risk, right Like in avery intense way.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And there were rules changing every single day.
There were laws changing everysingle day.
Ahr was like flying unblind forlike 18 months.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Because you could have this like new uh state, uh
law, and then tomorrow it'sdifferent, and then it's
different in this state, or it'sdifferent in this state or or
like maybe you are um testingevery single day in one state,
but but you're not testing in inin in another state.
And maybe you're wearing maskshere, but you're not testing in
(10:26):
another state.
And maybe you're wearing maskshere, but you're not wearing
masks there.
And so yeah, it was this kind ofstruggle, you know.
But I mean patient safetyalways came first right and then
staff also.
But yeah, it was super tricky,especially when you're with
(10:46):
these very vulnerable patientsand again, you are their family
during this time, becausefamilies not allowed in.
Yeah, right Because there wereso many rules around it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, and not to mention during that time.
So in your tenure in post-acute, you 4X'd the amount of people
and buildings during all ofthose policy changes.
It was super crazy, yeah forsure.
What did you learn?
As far as dramatic growth?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I think you have a very unique insight where you
had dramatic growth in a verydramatic, unprecedented time in
human history.
So what were the good and thenwhat was the bad?
Like not the bad as far as um,we'll cut this out.
Not the bad as far as the bad,but the bad, like the
difficulties specifically in HRand trying to keep people during
(11:39):
that time.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, for sure.
So I'm.
I mean, there's um a lot oftrial and error growing right,
so a lot of.
How many support people do Ineed in order to back up patient
growth?
Or, you know, beds filled orkind of however you want to look
(12:02):
at?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
it right.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So there was a lot of challenge around how do I make
this grow and I keep my staffhappy, right, but we also keep
our patients taken care of.
And so, again, there was a lotof trial and error around ratio
(12:25):
hiring and trying to figure outhow much back-end support we
could give and still grow andstill function and make sure
that all of our current staffare still being cared for
correctly, but knowing thatthere's X amount of people
(12:47):
coming on within an X amount oftime, right.
So a lot of patience, a lot ofgrace, as you're like failing,
naturally right, but then a lotof just like trial and error,
kind of knowing, well, thisdidn't work and so how can we
make it work better.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Right.
So, and then naturally, withinthe HR world, like policies grow
and then policies changeaccording to whatever state,
whatever region, what your headcounts are Right, and so it's
also a matter of just staying upon all those like ever evolving
(13:28):
changes too.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So yeah, I'm trying to make sure my math is right.
So during that time it's likealmost an unfathomable amount of
growth.
It's like 26,000 people.
From how many people you had tohow many you got, that's like
an entire stadium of people.
How in the world did you scale?
(13:50):
I think those, those smallappreciations cause, at a small
level.
It's really easy to get a $20gift card or like give a pat on
the back.
Like how did you scale fromnine to 35,000 people to make
sure those small appreciationsstill happened?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Right, yeah, so I think just so, as leaders, we
had autonomy to do what wasright for our specific teams.
So like, for instance, if myteam had to like travel on the
(14:27):
weekend, then as soon as we wereback, then I would give them a
three-day weekend off.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Oh nice.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Without having to dip into their time off right.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And so it's just something kind, kind of kind of
like that, or um, let's say thatthey were traveling to, to, to
a new building, um, and thenthey wanted to stay for the um
weekend.
They could like piggy um backoff of that plane um ticket
(15:04):
instead of having to purchaseanother one.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Right, because they're already there.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And so then I would just let them, you know, stay
for like a couple extra days andthen have you know, a couple
other days off.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Or just something kind of like that.
You just had to let them knowthat you absolutely cared about
all of the extra and hard workthat was going into it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And I mean an extra bonus never hurts right.
But it isn't always doable, andso you just have to do whatever
you can to just make them feeland then know that you care
about all of the hard work thatthey are doing.
Because it was crazy.
I mean, it was like 11,000-ishstaff to like 35,000-ish staff
(15:51):
within like 24 months.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I mean, it was psycho .
It really is crazy.
Yeah, 23,000 people.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It was super fun, in all honesty, like going all over
the whole country meeting allthese wonderful people, bringing
in a bunch of people.
But yeah, I mean it was superbusy for a really long time.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, yeah, I think it sounds like something that
needs to happen, especially asorganizations get bigger, but
kind of create the parameters orgive the put lines on the field
so people know what's ininbounds.
And then just like play the gameyou, you know, like let people
know they're appreciated, kindof like how you said, if they
took a weekend, you were able to, without any sort of backlash
(16:33):
or needing approval or whatever.
It's just like you get threedays off, like those were
parameters.
Where you're, you were able tohelp them feel appreciated
without all this back end likepaperwork and like headache and
approvals and talking to the ctor the cfo or whatever.
I don't know right but um, yeah, that's really yeah, cool yeah,
(16:54):
um, trying to think, justscrolling through really fast.
um, I do have an interestingquestion.
I know a lot of the people thatlisten to this.
They come from the space, sohelperly.
You know home health, uh,hospice personal care.
We don't have buildings thatwe're acquiring and I mean you
(17:17):
might acquire a smallercompetitor.
Um, but something that's reallyunique that I would love your
insight on is mergers andacquisitions in this space,
cause we do have a lot ofassisted livings or skilled
nursings that listen to this.
Unique that I would love yourinsight on is mergers and
acquisitions in the space, causewe do have a lot of assisted
livings or skilled nursings thatlisten to this.
How do you successfullynavigate the HR challenges in
the transitions?
You know one culture absorbinganother, people absorbing, like
(17:38):
practices, all of that.
How do you go through that onthe HR side?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, I think um bringing in HR early helps um A
lot of times during the M&Apractice.
It is operations only, right,like, how much money is this
going to cost?
Do we need new like equipment,I a T structures and all of that
(18:05):
type of stuff?
Right, and so that's.
That's all just like naturalstuff dealing with like money
and finance and that type ofthing.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
The um.
The the earliest that you bringHR in, the better, because they
will ask, ask um questions likewhat are your paid a days off?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Because people don't ever think to like ask any of
those questions.
Right, or like what is yourcurrent time off policy?
Are they going to keep theirs?
Are they going to merge withours?
Do we want separate ones?
Do they have a state specificpolicy or a company one?
(18:45):
What are we going to take Right?
Yeah, take.
Or are there any promisesaround their jobs?
Or are there bonus structures?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Are we?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
going to keep them?
Do they have commissionstructures?
And so it's just a matter ofhaving that right people person
to ask all of those questionsand to figure out what is going
to happen post-merger right.
Because that's everyone's veryfirst question Do I still have a
(19:15):
job?
Do I get to keep all of mybenefits?
Am I going to have worsebenefits?
Are you going to keep myseniority date or do I have to
start over?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
There's a lot of those, just like simple things,
that if you're on the businessside, you aren't thinking about.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Because you're dealing with money and
operations and that type ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And so HR is that people, person and they and they
have to worry about whateverybody else worries about.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, Right.
So yeah, it's a good train ofthought, like having HR in there
earlier, kind of thinking about.
I feel like in a merger youprobably lose the most people
less.
This is my assumption, Lessabout actual logistics of it and
more about not knowing thelogistics of it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Like you said, am I going to lose my?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
job.
So the three months leading orthe six months leading up to the
acquisition, they're lookingfor other jobs and applying and
like they start getting thegrasses greener on the other
side feeling, and so thenthey're leaving before versus
having HR in there, kind oftrying to curb these things and
tell them the plan from theget-go, where if you don't have
that, you can't tell them theplan.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right, Plus, I mean as much as we want to think that
people come to work becausethey love us and they want to
work here.
People come because they get acheck or they have medical
benefits or they have paid timeoff or they have a 401k, and so
(20:49):
those are their first questionsas soon as this stuff starts to
like happen and so if you canease some of their worry, then
it stops them from all quittingprior to the acquisition
happening.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Which makes it kind of a dumpster fire when you buy
the film, Right?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
right, and so you want to be as transparent as
possible, as soon as you can.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Granted, there is times where you can't talk about
it until a certain time,because mergers and acquisitions
are tough.
Yeah, right, certain time.
Because mergers andacquisitions are tough.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Right, but as soon as you're available, then have
that conversation.
We went in in in a person everysingle time and we answered
everybody's questions everysingle time directly in front of
of of of them, so that theyknew that we honestly cared
(21:49):
about them and that we weren'tthis just like mean person
coming in and just taking over.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Oh, I just bought my yeah, yeah, exactly.
Boss sold out and now I havethis terrible Right.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And so you were just trying to ease their mind like
as soon as possible, right.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah trying to ease their mind, like as soon as
possible, right, and so as soonas you could do that, then it
kind of helps them, kind of likebreathe breathe easy, like,
okay, I'm still going to get acheck, I can still pay all of my
bills, Right and so yeah, nomatter how much somebody loves a
mission or culture it reallylike, if it gets down to it
where my benefits aredramatically worse or my pays
(22:29):
dramatically cut back rightbecause of real life stuff, like
you can in the perfect worldeverybody just blame them for
that.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, right, exactly yeah, and so whatever you can do
to kind of ease their thoughtprocess amongst that, that's
what hr is there for yeah rightis to is to keep all of the like
people happy, and then everyoneelse can deal with all the
money and all the operationalsides right I will have those
one-on-one chats and kind ofyeah, ease everyone's mind, yeah
(22:59):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Um, yeah, that's really what it comes down to is
because, even if it's likeminorly worse benefits, if they
love where they're working andthey love all the other things
coming in, they'll stick aroundLike it's like, yeah, it's a
whole addition thing.
Last few questions.
So 35,000 people, a few monthsoff or run, you still have your
(23:23):
own company where you're able toprovide some HR on the side,
and then you come to help earlywhere we have the amount of
staff of one building.
Yeah, totally different.
What has your experience beenlike here?
What's been fun about it?
What differences have you seenin the post-acute versus, like
you said, right after that, whenthey get back home?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, so I mean, this was kind of a like natural step
right.
Kind of a like natural stepright Of.
Like that is the post acutecare, where they might need like
24 hour help and so now they'rehealthy and they can go back
home and so this is like thenext step, right.
So kind of that like naturalpush Coming in here where it's a
(24:05):
like startup and nothing islike set.
Then I get to kind of likestart from a scratch on the HR
side and it's super fun, right.
Because I am the expert, right,and so naturally I can look at
these other things or likegrowth, as to where we want to
(24:28):
be, and I can tell you, like man, that isn't a good choice.
I promise, maybe we should dothis.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
But it's also just like building everything up how,
how, how you want it toactually look Right and so we
can build, kind of all of theselittle like stepping stepping
stones, instead of coming in andsomething's already settled and
then you try to like change.
It is so hard yeah, rightbecause nobody likes change, no
(24:57):
matter what yeah but if we canstart kind of like small and
then build everything up andthen we build as we like grow,
then it's kind of a lot harder.
So, coming in was a littletricky because you are brand new
.
You have never had a HR personwho 100% knew what they were
(25:21):
doing.
So it's a little bit of alearning curve, right?
But naturally we are just goingto build as we like grow as I
said.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So, yeah, yeah, it's a lot of fun having like an HR
focus and, like you said, kindof starting building the
foundation and kind of buildingin the incentives and the
rewards and the people first now, rather than being a big old
behemoth and trying to.
It's a lot like it's easier tomove a stone and place it rather
(25:53):
than after all the dirt settledand having to dig it back out
again right, yeah um, what, um,what has been the most rewarding
part of work at helperly so fargetting the ground going that
that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I would say medical benefits is kind of the big deal
right.
Like everyone here, was soexcited about that because,
again, it's something thatpeople want when they start an
actual job, right Like.
Unfortunately, not everyonecomes because they think that
Helperly is the greatest thingin the world.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Like people need money and they need to survive.
And so coming and not havingany like set things is kind of
fun to kind of give my owninsight into my side of this
business.
But also so you are super likebusiness focused and revenue and
(26:54):
how do we grow?
And naturally I am peoplefocused and I am operational
focused and so making a strongoperational plan to actually
grow helps us get to that.
Higher revenue helps us, helpsus get to that like bigger a
client base.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And and so be be being able to kind of like put
in all these kind of kind oflike missing pieces to um, to,
to um, align everything is justsuper fun yeah, it's way fun
being able to that's what I love.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Even one day, forever down the road, I'm just the
chairman at helperly orsomething right like I'd want to
start something else, becauseit is so fun getting the
foundation set and then justlike getting things going, you
know, building something ratherthan just plugging in.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, plus I am the people person Like.
I am the biggest person forlike people Right, whereas you
are like operations and revenue,and growth and that type of
stuff Right.
And so we are a nice littleteam because, we can merge them
both together.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Because if your people are happy, then your
clients are taken care of andthen processes just work
naturally at that point?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, um last few questions.
What legacy do you hope toleave on the HR industry, just
as a whole.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Oh, that's a good one .
So, um, hr has had a bad rapfor a really long time, right?
So, um, yeah, you haveby fromthe office right, I know ever
since, ever, since 2013 orwhenever the office came out,
2007, whatever it was like hrhas has has been the bad guy for
a really, and we only do thatright, and so I am here to bring
(28:54):
the human back into HR right.
And so again, if you make yourpeople happy, then they will
want to come to work, and sojust making that like people
focus, so people above profits,yeah, if your people are happy,
you will naturally also havereally high profits.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And so it's just a matter of actually caring about
what your people need in orderto succeed while they are at
work, and so if you are a morelike people over profits focused
person, then you will seetremendous growth.
(29:38):
If you care about your profitsfirst, then naturally people are
going to think that you don'tcare, and then stuff is just
going to fail.
And so as an HR person, I wantto be the reason why people want
to come to work.
(29:58):
Yeah, and just kind of justleading with that Love that.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yes, that's awesome.
Who knows Love that?
Yes, that's awesome.
Who knows, maybe in 10, 15, 20years your legacy will make it
so people will actually go toschool and say they'll be in
sixth grade saying when I growup, I want to be the VP of HR.
That's right.
That's right, exactly.
Yes, you're building the dreamsof little boys and girls across
(30:26):
America to be into HR Awesome.
Well, this has been a lot offun just chatting through
everything.
Your experience is extremelyrich and we're very blessed and
lucky to have you at Help Relief.
I'm so happy to be here and Ithink that people listening,
especially those that have well,just anybody that works in the
healthcare space, likepost-acute, is right there in
(30:46):
the middle of all of it and it'svery valuable insight, so I'm
excited to air this episode.
Yeah, great Thanks.
Thank you.
Our guest today is Katie Tanner, senior
Professional in Human Resources,sphr and Senior Human Resources
Manager at Helperly.
Before Helperly, she worked inthe post-acute care space as a
VP of HR at PAX, taking themfrom 50 buildings to over 200
and pre-IPO.
With over a decade ofexperience across HR functions,
(00:20):
such as mergers and acquisitions, policy development, employee
engagement, katie brings awealth of knowledge and passion
for putting the human back inhuman resources.
She's here to share herinsights on leading with empathy
, developing people-firstpolicies and fostering cultures
that drive business success.
We're excited to dive intoKatie's wealth of knowledge and
learn more about her approach toHR leadership.
(00:42):
Thanks for coming on, katie.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yes, of course, so kind of jumping into it.
What originally got you startedin HR?
We talked a little bit beforeabout how you were a zookeeper
and doing all this fun stuff,and then you got into HR and
then I had to get a real jobright so I had.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's kind of funny like no one really goes to
school thinking I want to be inhuman resources for the rest of
my life and deal with all theseissues.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So I had just graduated and I just needed a
job.
My very first job after Igraduated college was at a
nursing home and I was sittingat their front desk just
answering phones and that'sabout it.
And so I was there for about amonth and their payroll person
(01:34):
went out on maternity leave.
So they asked me if I wouldjust do it while she was gone.
I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever.
So I started doing that.
Well, then their HR personmoved out of state, so they
asked me if I would take on thattoo.
And I'm like sure, it can't bethat that that hard, and I just
(01:55):
absolutely kind of love, lovedit and I just kind of rolled
with it.
I I taught myself most mosteverything with it.
I I taught myself most mosteverything, and then I just
absolutely loved it at thatpoint.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, what.
What did you love about it andwhat's kept you?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
going throughout the years and staying in HR.
Yeah, so I have a background inbehavioral science and so I
like the kind of aspect of like,of, of like helping people
react, um, helping people under,uh, understand things that they
might not understand, and justlike helping people um with with
(02:38):
.
With that first job, I had acorporate HR person who was the
scariest person that I had evermet.
The very first time that I mether she was just very short and
very rude and it was very hardto actually ask questions
because she would get really madvery fast.
(03:04):
And so from that point, on.
I just kind of decided that Iwould never be that person,
right, and so, um, and so I justkind of made it my like
personal mission that if I wasgoing to stick with an HR, that
that that I wanted to be the HRperson that people wanted to
talk to, not that they had hadhad to talk to, and so that's
(03:26):
just has, that's just how, how Ihave, like, personally, grown.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, I think that's a great ideal to aspire to it's.
I could see how it's difficult,though, trying to balance that.
So how, over the years, haveyou been able to be the HR
person that's approachable, butalso, when the time comes, being
able to kind of not lay down,lay down the law when you need
to.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Hey, policies are policies and I need to.
So how did you balance that andhow have you?
How would you suggest otherpeople be able to balance that
where they can lean in?
Maybe they're way overlycharismatic and they never lean
in and put their foot down whenthey need to, or they're just a
dictator and they don't have aheart.
How do you meet in the middle?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, I mean it is this very fine balance right Of
like.
We are working with humans.
Humans, naturally, are going tomake mistakes and they are
going to do something wrong, andso you can either choose to
coach people up and then helpthem work out things, or you can
(04:30):
choose to coach them out right,and so you just have to find
that fine line of everybody canbe taught something and maybe
it's not on this team and so I'mgoing to help you learn
something else on another team,right?
But you just have to have thatkind of mindset that people are
(04:57):
going to make mistakes and youhave to have that empathy side,
like no matter what, because ifyou don't have like, if, if you
don't care about your people,then they are not going to care
about your business, and if youdon't have people helping you
run, then you don't have abusiness eventually Right.
(05:20):
And so you just have to findways to keep your people happy.
However that is and it's notnecessarily always with money,
and so that's what I have justkind of ran with, and that's how
I just like running HR stuff isthat if you take care of your
people first, then all of yourprocesses will just naturally
(05:42):
happen.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, yeah, and starting with the people, all
the way back to kind of aculture like coach them up or
coach them out, like it's acharismatic thing to coach them
up into it, cause if you arecoaching them up to fit into the
culture of the place thatyou're working, they're going to
thrive and they're going to behappy.
Um, and so I think it does.
Culture is a very like likebuzzword kind of, but it's kind
(06:07):
of a dirty word.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, what's?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
culture.
It's a tech company that has aping pong table in the break
room, right.
But yeah, like coaching andcaring about them to the point
where, for the charismaticpeople, coaching is showing that
you care about them and for thedictator people like, how about
you reward them for when theydo like those small things?
(06:31):
It doesn't have to be financial, but that helps them stay in
the line.
Let's jump a little bit aboutinto your journey in post acute
care.
You were there for a few yearscrazy growth, yeah.
Talk about how that was versusother roles that you had in HR,
because post-acute or really anyindustry that works with
(06:51):
seniors, I feel like theturnover rate, especially in
direct care staff, can be reallyhigh.
So kind of just walk throughthat.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So healthcare is just its own kind of like beast
right.
And especially post COVID.
There was so many things thathappened, naturally, right.
So most of your businesses,when COVID happened, pivoted and
(07:20):
people are working from homeand their processes are still
happening Well within the24-hour health care world.
That did not happen, right.
We actually started being allof our patients' direct family
at that point.
That's interesting, becausethat's who they saw every single
day, right, and so instead,instead of their family coming
(07:43):
and their family visiting them,we, we, we started being their
actual family every single day,right, um, or their family was,
was um visiting through througha FaceTime call or something
kind of kind of like that, for afor a good like year, kind of
(08:06):
like that for a good like year.
That is how things kind of likewere right.
But again, if you take care ofyour people, then they're gonna
take care of your clients andyour patients and that type of
stuff.
In order to work within thehealthcare field like it takes a
very special person right.
Like they have to actually careabout what they're doing and
(08:27):
they want to come to work notthat they have to come to work,
and so you just have to makethem feel appreciated every
single day, and it could besomething super simple or it
could be something huge, right,but you have to make that happen
.
It doesn't just naturallyhappen and that happens with
(08:50):
really good leaders, it happenswith very, very good processes
and just literally making yourstaff feel like you honestly
care about them every single day.
Yeah, um, especially within thepost acute care world, because
patients are there because theycan't be home.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Um or or because it's not safe in order for them to
be home.
And so you're helping them getto that point, and so that's
where help really kind of takesover.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
So so, um so, it's this kind of just like takes
over, Right, so so so, it's thiskind of just like natural
growth.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, so yeah, it is really interesting thing that I
feel like isn't I mean, peopleknow that it happened, but it
isn't like talked about likeeverybody else?
Covid shut down.
Okay, I guess we're meeting onzoom today?
It's like no, I still have toshow up every single day,
especially in the early dayswhen you, like before we knew
the extent or more about it, itfelt like every day your life
(09:50):
was at risk, right Like in avery intense way.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And there were rules changing every single day.
There were laws changing everysingle day.
Ahr was like flying unblind forlike 18 months.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Because you could have this like new uh state, uh
law, and then tomorrow it'sdifferent, and then it's
different in this state, or it'sdifferent in this state or or
like maybe you are um testingevery single day in one state,
but but you're not testing in inin in another state.
And maybe you're wearing maskshere, but you're not testing in
(10:26):
another state.
And maybe you're wearing maskshere, but you're not wearing
masks there.
And so yeah, it was this kind ofstruggle, you know.
But I mean patient safetyalways came first right and then
staff also.
But yeah, it was super tricky,especially when you're with
(10:46):
these very vulnerable patientsand again, you are their family
during this time, becausefamilies not allowed in.
Yeah, right Because there wereso many rules around it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, and not to mention during that time.
So in your tenure in post-acute, you 4X'd the amount of people
and buildings during all ofthose policy changes.
It was super crazy, yeah forsure.
What did you learn?
As far as dramatic growth?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I think you have a very unique insight where you
had dramatic growth in a verydramatic, unprecedented time in
human history.
So what were the good and thenwhat was the bad?
Like not the bad as far as um,we'll cut this out.
Not the bad as far as the bad,but the bad, like the
difficulties specifically in HRand trying to keep people during
(11:39):
that time.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, for sure.
So I'm.
I mean, there's um a lot oftrial and error growing right,
so a lot of.
How many support people do Ineed in order to back up patient
growth?
Or, you know, beds filled orkind of however you want to look
(12:02):
at?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
it right.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So there was a lot of challenge around how do I make
this grow and I keep my staffhappy, right, but we also keep
our patients taken care of.
And so, again, there was a lotof trial and error around ratio
(12:25):
hiring and trying to figure outhow much back-end support we
could give and still grow andstill function and make sure
that all of our current staffare still being cared for
correctly, but knowing thatthere's X amount of people
(12:47):
coming on within an X amount oftime, right.
So a lot of patience, a lot ofgrace, as you're like failing,
naturally right, but then a lotof just like trial and error,
kind of knowing, well, thisdidn't work and so how can we
make it work better.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Right.
So, and then naturally, withinthe HR world, like policies grow
and then policies changeaccording to whatever state,
whatever region, what your headcounts are Right, and so it's
also a matter of just staying upon all those like ever evolving
(13:28):
changes too.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So yeah, I'm trying to make sure my math is right.
So during that time it's likealmost an unfathomable amount of
growth.
It's like 26,000 people.
From how many people you had tohow many you got, that's like
an entire stadium of people.
How in the world did you scale?
(13:50):
I think those, those smallappreciations cause, at a small
level.
It's really easy to get a $20gift card or like give a pat on
the back.
Like how did you scale fromnine to 35,000 people to make
sure those small appreciationsstill happened?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Right, yeah, so I think just so, as leaders, we
had autonomy to do what wasright for our specific teams.
So like, for instance, if myteam had to like travel on the
(14:27):
weekend, then as soon as we wereback, then I would give them a
three-day weekend off.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Oh nice.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Without having to dip into their time off right.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And so it's just something kind, kind of kind of
like that, or um, let's say thatthey were traveling to, to, to
a new building, um, and thenthey wanted to stay for the um
weekend.
They could like piggy um backoff of that plane um ticket
(15:04):
instead of having to purchaseanother one.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Right, because they're already there.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And so then I would just let them, you know, stay
for like a couple extra days andthen have you know, a couple
other days off.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Or just something kind of like that.
You just had to let them knowthat you absolutely cared about
all of the extra and hard workthat was going into it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And I mean an extra bonus never hurts right.
But it isn't always doable, andso you just have to do whatever
you can to just make them feeland then know that you care
about all of the hard work thatthey are doing.
Because it was crazy.
I mean, it was like 11,000-ishstaff to like 35,000-ish staff
(15:51):
within like 24 months.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I mean, it was psycho .
It really is crazy.
Yeah, 23,000 people.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It was super fun, in all honesty, like going all over
the whole country meeting allthese wonderful people, bringing
in a bunch of people.
But yeah, I mean it was superbusy for a really long time.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, yeah, I think it sounds like something that
needs to happen, especially asorganizations get bigger, but
kind of create the parameters orgive the put lines on the field
so people know what's ininbounds.
And then just like play the gameyou, you know, like let people
know they're appreciated, kindof like how you said, if they
took a weekend, you were able to, without any sort of backlash
(16:33):
or needing approval or whatever.
It's just like you get threedays off, like those were
parameters.
Where you're, you were able tohelp them feel appreciated
without all this back end likepaperwork and like headache and
approvals and talking to the ctor the cfo or whatever.
I don't know right but um, yeah, that's really yeah, cool yeah,
(16:54):
um, trying to think, justscrolling through really fast.
um, I do have an interestingquestion.
I know a lot of the people thatlisten to this.
They come from the space, sohelperly.
You know home health, uh,hospice personal care.
We don't have buildings thatwe're acquiring and I mean you
(17:17):
might acquire a smallercompetitor.
Um, but something that's reallyunique that I would love your
insight on is mergers andacquisitions in this space,
cause we do have a lot ofassisted livings or skilled
nursings that listen to this.
Unique that I would love yourinsight on is mergers and
acquisitions in the space, causewe do have a lot of assisted
livings or skilled nursings thatlisten to this.
How do you successfullynavigate the HR challenges in
the transitions?
You know one culture absorbinganother, people absorbing, like
(17:38):
practices, all of that.
How do you go through that onthe HR side?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, I think um bringing in HR early helps um A
lot of times during the M&Apractice.
It is operations only, right,like, how much money is this
going to cost?
Do we need new like equipment,I a T structures and all of that
(18:05):
type of stuff?
Right, and so that's.
That's all just like naturalstuff dealing with like money
and finance and that type ofthing.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
The um.
The the earliest that you bringHR in, the better, because they
will ask, ask um questions likewhat are your paid a days off?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Because people don't ever think to like ask any of
those questions.
Right, or like what is yourcurrent time off policy?
Are they going to keep theirs?
Are they going to merge withours?
Do we want separate ones?
Do they have a state specificpolicy or a company one?
(18:45):
What are we going to take Right?
Yeah, take.
Or are there any promisesaround their jobs?
Or are there bonus structures?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Are we?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
going to keep them?
Do they have commissionstructures?
And so it's just a matter ofhaving that right people person
to ask all of those questionsand to figure out what is going
to happen post-merger right.
Because that's everyone's veryfirst question Do I still have a
(19:15):
job?
Do I get to keep all of mybenefits?
Am I going to have worsebenefits?
Are you going to keep myseniority date or do I have to
start over?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
There's a lot of those, just like simple things,
that if you're on the businessside, you aren't thinking about.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Because you're dealing with money and
operations and that type ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And so HR is that people, person and they and they
have to worry about whateverybody else worries about.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, Right.
So yeah, it's a good train ofthought, like having HR in there
earlier, kind of thinking about.
I feel like in a merger youprobably lose the most people
less.
This is my assumption, Lessabout actual logistics of it and
more about not knowing thelogistics of it.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Like you said, am I going to lose my?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
job.
So the three months leading orthe six months leading up to the
acquisition, they're lookingfor other jobs and applying and
like they start getting thegrasses greener on the other
side feeling, and so thenthey're leaving before versus
having HR in there, kind oftrying to curb these things and
tell them the plan from theget-go, where if you don't have
that, you can't tell them theplan.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right, Plus, I mean as much as we want to think that
people come to work becausethey love us and they want to
work here.
People come because they get acheck or they have medical
benefits or they have paid timeoff or they have a 401k, and so
(20:49):
those are their first questionsas soon as this stuff starts to
like happen and so if you canease some of their worry, then
it stops them from all quittingprior to the acquisition
happening.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Which makes it kind of a dumpster fire when you buy
the film, Right?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
right, and so you want to be as transparent as
possible, as soon as you can.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Granted, there is times where you can't talk about
it until a certain time,because mergers and acquisitions
are tough.
Yeah, right, certain time.
Because mergers andacquisitions are tough.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Right, but as soon as you're available, then have
that conversation.
We went in in in a person everysingle time and we answered
everybody's questions everysingle time directly in front of
of of of them, so that theyknew that we honestly cared
(21:49):
about them and that we weren'tthis just like mean person
coming in and just taking over.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Oh, I just bought my yeah, yeah, exactly.
Boss sold out and now I havethis terrible Right.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And so you were just trying to ease their mind like
as soon as possible, right.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah trying to ease their mind, like as soon as
possible, right, and so as soonas you could do that, then it
kind of helps them, kind of likebreathe breathe easy, like,
okay, I'm still going to get acheck, I can still pay all of my
bills, Right and so yeah, nomatter how much somebody loves a
mission or culture it reallylike, if it gets down to it
where my benefits aredramatically worse or my pays
(22:29):
dramatically cut back rightbecause of real life stuff, like
you can in the perfect worldeverybody just blame them for
that.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, right, exactly yeah, and so whatever you can do
to kind of ease their thoughtprocess amongst that, that's
what hr is there for yeah rightis to is to keep all of the like
people happy, and then everyoneelse can deal with all the
money and all the operationalsides right I will have those
one-on-one chats and kind ofyeah, ease everyone's mind, yeah
(22:59):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Um, yeah, that's really what it comes down to is
because, even if it's likeminorly worse benefits, if they
love where they're working andthey love all the other things
coming in, they'll stick aroundLike it's like, yeah, it's a
whole addition thing.
Last few questions.
So 35,000 people, a few monthsoff or run, you still have your
(23:23):
own company where you're able toprovide some HR on the side,
and then you come to help earlywhere we have the amount of
staff of one building.
Yeah, totally different.
What has your experience beenlike here?
What's been fun about it?
What differences have you seenin the post-acute versus, like
you said, right after that, whenthey get back home?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, so I mean, this was kind of a like natural step
right.
Kind of a like natural stepright Of.
Like that is the post acutecare, where they might need like
24 hour help and so now they'rehealthy and they can go back
home and so this is like thenext step, right.
So kind of that like naturalpush Coming in here where it's a
(24:05):
like startup and nothing islike set.
Then I get to kind of likestart from a scratch on the HR
side and it's super fun, right.
Because I am the expert, right,and so naturally I can look at
these other things or likegrowth, as to where we want to
(24:28):
be, and I can tell you, like man, that isn't a good choice.
I promise, maybe we should dothis.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
But it's also just like building everything up how,
how, how you want it toactually look Right and so we
can build, kind of all of theselittle like stepping stepping
stones, instead of coming in andsomething's already settled and
then you try to like change.
It is so hard yeah, rightbecause nobody likes change, no
(24:57):
matter what yeah but if we canstart kind of like small and
then build everything up andthen we build as we like grow,
then it's kind of a lot harder.
So, coming in was a littletricky because you are brand new
.
You have never had a HR personwho 100% knew what they were
(25:21):
doing.
So it's a little bit of alearning curve, right?
But naturally we are just goingto build as we like grow as I
said.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So, yeah, yeah, it's a lot of fun having like an HR
focus and, like you said, kindof starting building the
foundation and kind of buildingin the incentives and the
rewards and the people first now, rather than being a big old
behemoth and trying to.
It's a lot like it's easier tomove a stone and place it rather
(25:53):
than after all the dirt settledand having to dig it back out
again right, yeah um, what, um,what has been the most rewarding
part of work at helperly so fargetting the ground going that
that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I would say medical benefits is kind of the big deal
right.
Like everyone here, was soexcited about that because,
again, it's something thatpeople want when they start an
actual job, right Like.
Unfortunately, not everyonecomes because they think that
Helperly is the greatest thingin the world.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Like people need money and they need to survive.
And so coming and not havingany like set things is kind of
fun to kind of give my owninsight into my side of this
business.
But also so you are super likebusiness focused and revenue and
(26:54):
how do we grow?
And naturally I am peoplefocused and I am operational
focused and so making a strongoperational plan to actually
grow helps us get to that.
Higher revenue helps us, helpsus get to that like bigger a
client base.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And and so be be being able to kind of like put
in all these kind of kind oflike missing pieces to um, to,
to um, align everything is justsuper fun yeah, it's way fun
being able to that's what I love.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Even one day, forever down the road, I'm just the
chairman at helperly orsomething right like I'd want to
start something else, becauseit is so fun getting the
foundation set and then justlike getting things going, you
know, building something ratherthan just plugging in.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, plus I am the people person Like.
I am the biggest person forlike people Right, whereas you
are like operations and revenue,and growth and that type of
stuff Right.
And so we are a nice littleteam because, we can merge them
both together.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Because if your people are happy, then your
clients are taken care of andthen processes just work
naturally at that point?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, um last few questions.
What legacy do you hope toleave on the HR industry, just
as a whole.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Oh, that's a good one .
So, um, hr has had a bad rapfor a really long time, right?
So, um, yeah, you haveby fromthe office right, I know ever
since, ever, since 2013 orwhenever the office came out,
2007, whatever it was like hrhas has has been the bad guy for
a really, and we only do thatright, and so I am here to bring
(28:54):
the human back into HR right.
And so again, if you make yourpeople happy, then they will
want to come to work, and sojust making that like people
focus, so people above profits,yeah, if your people are happy,
you will naturally also havereally high profits.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And so it's just a matter of actually caring about
what your people need in orderto succeed while they are at
work, and so if you are a morelike people over profits focused
person, then you will seetremendous growth.
(29:38):
If you care about your profitsfirst, then naturally people are
going to think that you don'tcare, and then stuff is just
going to fail.
And so as an HR person, I wantto be the reason why people want
to come to work.
(29:58):
Yeah, and just kind of justleading with that Love that.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yes, that's awesome.
Who knows Love that?
Yes, that's awesome.
Who knows, maybe in 10, 15, 20years your legacy will make it
so people will actually go toschool and say they'll be in
sixth grade saying when I growup, I want to be the VP of HR.
That's right.
That's right, exactly.
Yes, you're building the dreamsof little boys and girls across
(30:26):
America to be into HR Awesome.
Well, this has been a lot offun just chatting through
everything.
Your experience is extremelyrich and we're very blessed and
lucky to have you at Help Relief.
I'm so happy to be here and Ithink that people listening,
especially those that have well,just anybody that works in the
healthcare space, likepost-acute, is right there in
(30:46):
the middle of all of it and it'svery valuable insight, so I'm
excited to air this episode.
Yeah, great Thanks.
Thank you.
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