November 20, 2024 • 37 mins
Discover the remarkable journey of Kayden Grenko, a trailblazer in senior care and the Director of Business Development at CareLife. With a fascinating background in healthcare administration and a wealth of hands-on experience Kayden offers invaluable insights into understanding and revolutionizing senior care. This episode discusses the unique value of intimate community settings and the diverse skill set required to thrive in this industry.
Join us as we explore the importance of team development and innovative approaches to senior living. Kayden reveals how aligning team members' personal goals with their roles can lead to success, and challenges traditional activities by suggesting fresh, engaging alternatives.
We also turn our attention to the mental well-being of both residents and staff, as Kayden shares strategies for fostering purpose-driven living and empathetic leadership. Learn how these approaches can enhance job satisfaction, reduce turnover, and transform communities.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Senior Care Academy.
Today's guest is Caden Grinko.
He's a forward-thinking leaderin senior living, currently
serving as the Director ofBusiness Development at CareLife
.
You may recognize CareLife fromour recent episode with Ezra
Torres, another remarkable voicein this transformative
organization.
Caden's work focuses onelevating quality of life for
seniors through innovativetechnologies and empathetic care
(00:22):
strategies, reinforcing ourdedication to showcasing
industry authorities who set newstandards.
With a master's in healthadministration from Weber State
University, caden brings bothdepth and leadership to senior
care.
His expertise extends beyondcare life as the founder of
Telos Consulting, where hedrives impactful changes in
sales and operations withinsenior living.
He also sits on the UtahCitizens Living Association
(00:44):
Board, helping out inlegislation, marketing and
education.
His career journey, includingroles as executive director and
director of health services,reflects his commitment to
integrating empathy andinnovation in senior care.
In this episode, we're going todive into his strategic
approaches, his role in pushingboundaries in elder care and his
unique vision for the future.
Caden's perspective offersvaluable insights into the
(01:07):
industry and will resonate withlisteners seeking expert advice,
especially those who share ourmission of compassionate,
advanced senior care.
Caden, thanks for coming onSenior Care Academy.
I'm excited to talk to you moreabout senior care kind of your
journey, any advice you have,people getting into it and stuff
that you've learned along theway.
How did your career start?
Tell us about, like your earlyyears and the journey that
(01:30):
you've went on to lead you towhere you are now.
What got you originally in thesenior care?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Senior living is an interesting space because I
don't think a lot of peoplestart their schooling or
anything planning to go into it,right, Like it's not a career
that you have since you're alittle kid, Like I'm going to go
do this right yeah, when I growup.
It's not talked about on theplayground as something you work
towards, but for me, Iinitially got my start in health
(01:57):
care in a physical therapyoffice.
Oh interesting, and I loved it.
I loved everything about sportsmedicine.
I was an athlete myself.
But the problem with kind ofany career that I've had is I
spend enough time in it and Iget bored of what's going on.
You learn the routine and aftera little bit in physical
(02:21):
therapy it was the same kneeankle, shoulder, hip over and
over again, same diagnosis, samethree exercises.
Exactly, and it just didn't havethe same alert that it
originally had.
So I was forced to kind of makea pivot, and I started that
pivot even within the physicaltherapy office that I was
working for.
Yeah, I started doing marketingfor them, outreaching to a
(02:44):
bunch of different places Infact.
I saw a need for them to dothat, and so I took a proposal
to them one day and said, hey, Ithink I can help grow your
company.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I know I've just been an aide here, but if you give
me a chance, here's my plan.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
That's awesome.
What do you think of it?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, and they were willing to take that shot.
Let me kind of learn as I goand do a bunch of things for
them.
And then I liked I still knewthat I liked healthcare and I
wanted to be in it.
So I changed my careertrajectory to go be part of
(03:21):
healthcare administrationinstead, because the business
side seemed to always haveproblems that needed solving
right.
Yeah, instead, because thebusiness side seemed to always
have problems.
Yeah, that needed solving,right.
Yeah, so for me, uh, that hasalways been the allure uh unique
problem every day exactly yeah,that is an interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
A lot of people want not the unique problem, so it's
a good, good persona that youhave to be able to build, step
into the problems every day.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Space exactly, but I got to keep them new and fresh
right.
So I have to keep breakingthings or finding new ways to
fix them and, and, and, reallyjust tinkering with it and so um
so I entered that program notreally knowing what I wanted to
do yeah um, and one of mymentors has suggested just go
into different types ofhealthcare environments, yeah,
(04:06):
and just see what's going on.
So I went to clinics, I went tohospitals and eventually I ended
up in a beehive homes inBrigham City Wow, and fell in
love with it and beehive isbasically.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It's like converted houses, so they're relatively
small communities, right, ohyeah?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, normally you're going to see a size of like 15
to 20 beds and an administrator.
That is over everything.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So really unique in that sense, just super important
for anyone looking to get intothe career because you do get
that hands-on experience of whatgoes on in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What goes on with activities?
What goes?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
on with maintenance and, frankly, I went in and I
started, I called myself anintern, even though they didn't
really have an intern program.
They let me hang out and askquestions and and just learn
from the environment there.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, I think that's a unique perspective a lot of
the people.
One of the questions theyalways ask is like what advice
do you have somebody gettingthis space and like super common
answer is like you gotta lovethe people or you have to like,
it has to be more than um, justlike work or seniors.
I think that that's the firsttime that we heard like if you
want to get into senior carespecifically like retirement,
(05:30):
this space, go into a smallercommunity so you can touch all
pieces.
That's a interesting piece oflike.
Get in so you understand allthe ins and outs, rather than
going to, you know, a managementcompany that has their smallest
building, is like 75 beds.
It's like go find somethingsmall where you're super
intimately related to everyaspect of the business.
I think that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, yes, start small, with small knowledge, and
then grow into it from there,because that's like, I started
as that intern and theneventually they gave me um an
opportunity yeah uh, notnecessarily the opportunity that
I would pick, but that's whatopportunities are yeah um, so I
made the decision to move myfamily down to price utah nice
(06:11):
manage, manage two communitiesdown there, um and uh, man, it
was a wild ride.
Yeah, first, first, uh, likethey dropped me off, they.
They kind of felt like I knewwhat I was doing because I had
interned for so long.
My nearest help was three hoursaway.
I took her through the canyonand the first five days I got
the cops in my office right.
(06:33):
Wow, and just wild things goingon.
The state had just visited thethings had with the previous
ownership.
They had been in some financialtrouble.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And that led to state trouble.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So lots of tags like 42 or something like that I
think when I, when I had walkedin and like so.
So a giant, a giant problemlike I had always hoped for and
dreamed for, right?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
yeah, there you go and uh, and you know, you start,
you start um first things first, second things not at all right
, yeah, so you prioritize andyou start working towards it
yeah, um.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So how has your perspective changed and kind of
evolved over the years, startingfrom a single um facility as
that intern and then gettingjust right into the fiery pit
and then now kind of whereyou're at, where you're actually
helping other assisted livingsand where you had your
consulting for a while.
What's what perspectives havepersisted and what's changed
(07:31):
over the years of being in theindustry?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that you learn um
as a as an executive director inassisted living, is number one,
and this has taken me some time.
Um, you can't do it alone.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And then when I look back on my greatest successes,
it's not necessarily grandefforts or heroic movements from
myself.
It's more of a combination ofgreat team members, great people
that I invested time in todevelop, people that I gave
opportunities um to really shine, or people that were they were
(08:09):
in the wrong seat on the bus.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Um, and instead of moving on from them, having
in-depth conversations andfinding the right seat for them
and then watching them flourish?
Yeah, so team development ishuge for me.
Um, I don't know exactly when,but but but it's been a long
time since I haven't had aninterview with somebody, or one
of the first um questions Iasked them is, like what their
(08:32):
goals look like.
Yeah, to me, interviews are waymore of a conversation, um, to
find out if somebody ismotivated, if they have a dream,
why they want to be in there,um and that, and then working
with them to help themaccomplish what they're doing.
Because that's what I approachthe industry in, and so that's
kind of how I've looked ateveryone else.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You're here for a reason.
You have a purpose.
Can we find it and can we worktogether?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
to get it.
I think that's awesome.
I think that's a good learningcurve as well.
It's like especially earlypeople, those people that you
like that are driven and thathave a goal, they think that the
way that they can progress.
Obviously there's truth, sometruth to it, but it's like the
Herculean amount of effort andeverything's on my back and
that's how I'm going to grow.
(09:16):
But it's like actually moreespecially in the senior care
space, because it does take kindof a village to help the people
that we help, to be able tocollaborate and you know, uh,
trust other people that you workwith and show that you're, um,
contributing as a team, eventhough it feels really good to
be crazy busy and being like,yeah, I'm the, I'm the man or
(09:38):
the woman, I guess, um, in this,in this community, and
everybody can count on me, whichwhich is great, but it's even
better to be like, hey, let'swork together, like
collaborating, and just that's agreat insight and lesson that
you've learned.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, those feelings.
Those feelings are awesome,except for, like, when you want
to take a vacation or, like you,want to get to your kid's
soccer game or just like thelittle things in life where
we're like can't you guys solveone problem without?
me Right and then all of asudden you've realized you've
put yourself in a box and growthcan't happen Like you're only
able to do so much as one person.
(10:12):
And to me that was a lesson ofleadership that I had to learn
quickly because if not, likethere were too many problems to
tackle.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, definitely leads to burnout.
What are some things that youor?
What do you?
Believe are some of the mostproblems to tackle?
Yeah, definitely leads toburnout.
Yeah, um, what are some thingsthat you, or what, what do you
believe are some of the mostoverlooked aspects of senior
care that, um, um, couldsignificantly impact the life of
the residents or the clients?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, I've worked in very small companies and I work
for very large corporations, andapproaches from both sides are
very different and I think bothsides could learn some things
from each other.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And a lot of that comes down to financial barriers
.
Sometimes, obviously, you justhave more money to throw at
things in larger groups.
But the biggest takeaway isreally understanding the work
that you're requiring fromeveryone.
Far too often have I seen asolution to a problem that
(11:15):
someone brings to a corporateoffice or someone else.
That's like well, let's justget you another form for you to
fill out and meticulouslymaintain throughout the day,
right?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I was like well, I don't need more paperwork, I
don't need more of this.
I need help addressing theconcerns of this resident or
this family member or my team.
And like I need real solutionsto that instead of something
else that I have to maintainRight.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Um and so and so that's kind of always been my
approach and and and maybe I, um, maybe I just look at problems
differently.
Instead of problems beingunsolvable, like there's always
a new solution or or aninnovation to it or or a
different spin on it, yeah anduh, taking those and and coming
(12:04):
up with crazy ideas and, and andadmittedly, some of my ideas
have failed um yeah, and, and Itry and learn from those, but uh
, there's the occasional onethat hits that.
That, I think is is fun andbrings a new light to the game.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, I love that.
I think being a hurdle removeris one of the biggest things
that a lot of times, peopleeither add hurdles, like I said,
an extra form, or they're justlike that hurdles there and it's
been there for however long.
So that's what you have to do,but just like removing those,
what are one of those crazyideas that you've had that have
hit that you're really proud of?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean.
So activities was a piece thatI always I mean I struggled with
it, even having worked likeearly, early on, as wasn't
necessarily an activitiesdirector, but I worked in an
afterschool program with kids.
And so every day was trying tocome up with something new to
entertain them, yeah, to keepthem engaged until mom.
(12:59):
Um and like that was fun.
But for me, um, I always feltlike activities and assisted
living needed some sort offacelift, Like like we can only
do bingo so much.
Um, and I worked with a lot ofdifferent companies where where
they felt like they had it, Um,and I could never quite get the
engagement level that I thoughtshould be there.
(13:21):
And so I sat down with my teamand I kind of interviewed them
on, like what they liked to do,and then we looked at the budget
and compared like okay, well,if you really like 3D printing,
can we get a 3D printer here?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And can you do a demonstration with the elderly
and can you?
Have them get involved and solike.
From that point he had ameeting.
It was the maintenance director.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Went out and spoke with the residents, taught them
how it works and then, all of asudden, they're asking him for
little gadgets and things likehey, can you make this so it
goes on my keys, so they canturn their key easier?
Yeah and like little thingslike that yeah um, and so then
it was identifying all of thedifferent um hobbies that my
(14:09):
whole team enjoyed, yeah, andthen offering the residents to
engage with him on that levelyeah and so from my aspect um,
this is going to make me soundlike a total nerd, but it was an
idea that I always thoughtwould be fun we held a Dungeons
Dragons game with a handful ofresidents.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I had a friend who's really into it.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So he brought all of his stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
He led the campaign.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
We helped walk them through it all, and it was
amazing was um.
It was amazing to see themparticipate in something that
you'd never see seniors doingyeah and so again, thinking
outside of the box and anengaging team with the goal um
and aligning all those together,yeah is where I've seen awesome
stuff happen.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
That's pretty cool what kind of results did you see
kind of on both sides as far asdid you see more residents
showing up?
And then I wonder, did thathave an impact on, especially,
like your direct care staff thata lot of times are in the
industry?
They're kind of churningthrough jobs, are going to the
highest bidder kind of thing.
Were they more engaged and like, enjoyed their work more by
(15:15):
being able to be involved inthat sense?
Or what impact did it have onboth sides?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, there were definitely activities that
showed up as stinkers, you knowlike nobody.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Nobody was there for us.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And it's like, well, did we market that right?
Could we get them to go?
And, yeah, and even some ofthem, there was some arm
twisting like, no, come try thisout.
Yeah, right, but I do feel likeif you can get your staff to
buy in, they'll work harder ongetting the residents to buy in
yeah.
And residents are like.
(15:48):
The adage is like when you'reold, you're stuck in your ways.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, old dog, new trick Right.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And to me that has never really applied.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
If you have a good enough relationship with your
residents, they're open to allsorts of new concepts.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that that's a myth thatis slowly getting debunked and
continues to, but we were at theSenior Expo in Salt Lake a few
weeks ago and the question thatwe were asking to get seniors to
stop was what's somethingyou've always wanted to learn
but you haven't yet?
And at least I would say 85%would say something specific.
(16:28):
Oh my gosh, I've always wantedto learn this specific thing.
And they're like 85, 90.
And they're still like.
I've always wanted to learnthis.
So like, the whole idea of likeyou can't learn, yeah, it's
totally a lie.
And then 10 would be likethere's so many things, I can't
name one and it was like fivepercent.
That was like I'm too old, Ican't, and I was like I
guarantee you can, um, but outof like a hundred people, only a
(16:52):
handful would say like or ahandful would say no, I can't,
and so like.
It's totally a myth that I thinkis ruining a lot of like said
activities directors, where it'slike we've got bingo.
They're like their little, youknow their drawer that they pull
out right, insert genericsenior activity rather than
(17:14):
actually diving in, being like.
I wonder if seniors would takea liking to 3D printing and then
like having it be a huge hit,so that's way cool.
Yeah, let me see what's.
Oh, there's a good one.
How do you know that?
How do you know you're makingprogress in senior care
specifically, maybe as anadministrator or just as an
industry as a whole?
How do we know that progress ishappening?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
as an industry as a whole.
How do we know that progress ishappening?
Um, progress is a game.
Uh, there's a book calledatomic habits, where they refer
to as aggregation of marginalgains.
Yeah, and sometimes you want toget to 100 right away but, but
for the most part you have to bepatient and get the 1% for that
(18:03):
next day.
And then the next day you'reworking on how do we get 1% to
another 1% and to another one,and then growth happens.
In that regard, and that hasfar more often been for me the
rule.
It's like we do improvementsand again it's focusing on, like
(18:24):
I said, the first things firstand then the second things
really not at all.
And I think that's where a lotof directors get confused is
they get caught up in thedemands of every day and they go
and they try and put out all ofthose fires.
Yeah of every day and they goand they try and put out all of
those fires, instead of beingreally intentional about like,
okay, I've got seven differentdepartments.
I'm going to focus on this onetoday, um, and I'm going to work
(18:45):
on them and let the other oneskind of float, yeah, um, until
I'm happy with how they'reoperating and they understand
their role, and then I can leavethat piece of the castle and go
to the next one and then slowlydevelop again the team, the
right players and the rightprocesses in order to take on
whatever challenge comes my wayand ultimately, for my own
(19:09):
sanity.
So I don't have to feel like Ihave to play hero every day so.
I can leave for 10 days, not geta phone call and come back and
not have to play three weeks ofcatch up afterwards.
State can show up and I'm notthinking this was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, right, yeah, I like that a lot.
I think a good comparison thatI've heard that I really liked
was especially in this spacewhere there is like it's
inevitable that you're going toshow up the next morning with
some a handful of fires atminimum.
And so the defining if it's atrash can fire or a wildfire.
(19:43):
Trash can fire it sucks andit's going to be hot, but it's
contained in a trash can, it'sgoing to burn out eventually on
its own, versus something that'slike a real problem.
Real problems burn bigger andbigger and bigger because
they're not taking time to belike I'm focusing on this
department today to make surethat that gets smaller and
things are getting handled, andso they're chasing around all
(20:06):
these trashcan fires that go outby themselves and then all of a
sudden they turn around.
There's like California's onfire you know, and so that's a
(20:32):
really good thing, and I thinkI'd love to ask a little bit
about your.
They believe can help people.
So what need does TELOS provideand what made you feel like you
should start doing someconsulting?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, so I think assisted living, every building
is unique and I've beenfortunate enough in my career
that I've seen a lot ofdifferent kinds of buildings.
I've been in the very small tothe very large kinds of
buildings.
I've been in the very small tothe very large.
I've seen one unit giantproperties to a very spread out,
seven different buildings onthe same piece of land, Huge
(21:04):
campus basically.
Big campus yeah, Seven acres andlots of places to go.
So I have a unique perspectiveof being able to walk into a
building and then seeing kind ofthe fit for the market and then
developing a plan to make thatbuilding successful.
And so why I started it?
(21:25):
Honestly, I was approached.
They're like, hey, you seempretty good at this.
We've heard your reputation.
People like what you do.
And then from there it's likecan I do this?
It's something new.
Why not Start before you'reready?
is another phrase I always tellmyself is like jump in and then
figure it out, and like there'sdefinitely been growing pains
(21:47):
there.
And again, I never profess toalways have the right answer,
but I do always try to do theright thing and to learn from
any mistakes that I do make, andthat has been it's been an
incredible growing experience.
I've appreciated everythingthat's come from it.
Even what I'm doing now startedas a consulting role with Care
(22:14):
Life and talking about how wecan better approach and help
senior living.
Um, and then, over three yearstime, grew into an opportunity
that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, I like.
I think that's a greatmentality that more people
should have.
I don't know if you've seenthat.
Um, it's like a short of jasonmomoa and it's like I think it's
jason, it's like.
I don't know that answer, butI'll do everything I can to find
that's something that peopleneed to have, like you don't
need the answer to get startedor to try to help, but do
everything you can to get theanswer as you're like working on
it.
So what?
(22:47):
Let me see what are some of thebiggest logistical hurdles that
you've seen, whether personallyor as you're consulting, in
scaling a senior care or anassisted living.
And then what approach hasworked best for you to overcome
those logistical hurdles?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I think senior living is in an interesting time
.
Right now there's a lot goingon where the market is growing.
All projections say that supplyand demand is going to shift to
where there's going to be anincreasing amount of demand from
seniors.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The silver tsunami is coming, yeah.
At the same time we, covid,kind of put a microscope over
the industry, said that there'sthings that we could be doing
better and there's legislativemovements to hold us accountable
to that.
And then, finally, I thinkanother thing COVID did was
(23:40):
consolidate a lot of properties.
A lot of the mom and pop shopscouldn't keep up and so they
sold off.
And then these largercorporation groups they're
taking over in management andownership and that is creating
Definitely more competition inwho can provide the best product
(24:04):
, and that always leads to moredemand for data, information,
analytics and reallyrevolutionizing how senior
living does business.
I mean it was not very long agowhere senior livings were still
all on paper.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, and then they saw Everything was just in a
filing cabinet Exactly Filingcabinets.
Folders Makes me cringe alittle bit.
Yeah, just thinking abouttrying to operate a business
like that Just an absolutelycrazy time.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
And I think most people have moved on to some
version of an EHR system andagain I see the future is where
it gets even more and moredefined by technology.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, I like that a lot With kind of the different
changes, especially kind of withCOVID.
Another thing that we'verecovered, I feel like for the
most part, but during COVIDthere was a big push obviously
like staying in place, and Ithink it's very.
A lot of seniors want to age inplace.
So how do senior carefacilities, how do you kind of
(25:10):
adapt to balance the trend withseniors that want to age in
place but also there's a lotthat are aging in place that
really ought to be in aretirement community or care
facility of some sort, to kindof reshape the way that people
are thinking about aging inplace versus moving into a
community?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well, so that's the game that.
I think there's markets rightnow where the price of moving
into the senior living is almostequivalent to hiring your own
personal at-home caregiver.
And so then, what is yourjustification for moving into a
senior living at that point?
If home is best and that'swhere I want to be Senior
livings have gotten good and arecontinuing to get better at
(25:54):
programming, because it's notjust being at home.
It's like what's your diet looklike?
What's um, what's yoursocialization look like, and,
and, and both of those things,in particular um, are, are
crucial to to the senior'slifestyle, um.
But beyond that, it's like howcan you guarantee that you're
(26:17):
not going to be left on thefloor right Like?
things like that in your homethere's risks that are involved
and really it's up to the seniorlivings to prove to the
prospective resident that whatthey offer is better.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And like that's hard because everybody loves their
home.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Like nobody wants to move out of it, but at some
point I often think about whatassisted livings of the future
would be like.
Am I going to be excited tomove in?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
there.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Or am I going to be clawing at the door to stay at
my house?
Yeah, and really I thinkthere's evolutions happening
there.
Like I said, it comes down towhat kind of activities are we
offering?
Are we making a better efforton on doing things differently
to to attract a different kindof resident?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's.
I mean, that's in essence whatsales is when the when, what
you're offering greatlyoutweighs the cost of doing it,
and the cost not just being aprice, but like the cost of
staying in home, like you said,from nutrition to engagement, to
overall health, to mentalhealth, that cost is greatly.
(27:30):
The value that you're gettingjust minimizes the cost in any
sense.
And so I do think that there'sgoing to be a trend, especially
in assisted living, where it'snot just you know we have great
care staff going to be a trend,especially in assisted living
where it's not just you know wehave great care staff and some
fun activities, it's, it's goingto kind of be a whole.
It's going to be an offer.
You know, it can't just be likethis is a great option for you.
(27:50):
It's like they're going to haveto make a sales offer.
Um, that greatly outweighs anybenefits that they're going to
have by staying at home.
And I think it'll be aninteresting thing over the next
five, 10 years seeing that offertake place, where assisted
living becomes a place where,like I said, when we're, you
know, 50 years from now, 60years from now, and we're like
at that point where we need tomake a decision, or even earlier
(28:12):
, who knows, by the time we're60, maybe we're like, yeah, this
whole homeownership thing'soverrated, I want to move into
an assisted living, which wouldbe a cool thing to see.
Okay, we've got a few more isoverrated, I want to move into
an assisted living right, whichwould be a cool thing to see.
(28:33):
Um, uh, okay, we're gonna filmright.
So, uh, kind of a shiftingquestion.
But there's been a big focus onmental health, kind of across
all age groups.
Um, how do you see senior carespecifically like assisted
living, um evolving to meetthose needs?
And then, what personalexperiences have you had that
kind of shapes the perspectiveon mental wellness for seniors.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
For seniors or those that work in there.
I have both, I mean, and again,my perspective is always towards
the people in the industrybecause that's who I, as an
executive director, like you,rarely you get moments with
seniors, but lot of your um timeis time is with your team,
(29:11):
right, um?
But from the senior side, again, like everybody needs a purpose
.
There's a few books out there,um, I think it's eden effect is
one of them, where it talksabout giving a purpose.
Some guy went out and he got abunch of birds and plants for
residents and and them all a jobto take care of one or the
other and all of their healthmarkers increased because he did
(29:31):
that.
Purpose is kind of fundamentalto all of us and, again, it's
not getting caught up in theday-to-day, it's understanding
why you're there, and I guessthis is a throwback to what we
originally started talking about.
Um, what are your goals?
What are you working towards?
If you keep that in mind?
Um, another phrase that we useat my in in my home all the time
(29:55):
is like, like, how are youdoing today?
I'll say that to my wife andand her response will be well,
yeah, it's just another.
Another day on the slope ofmount everest, because um it's
all about the climb right, yeah,I like
that and so and so, like youtake that into account and what
you're doing, and then, and whenyour goal is to reach the
summit, then then the day-to-daythings don't hit so hard.
(30:19):
Yeah, yeah, but mental healthis going.
I think we have to really takestock of how we talk to our
employees, the demands we makeof them and really listen to the
problems we're having.
And similarly with ourresidents.
(30:41):
Like you have a resident thathas behavioral issues, is
depressed, like I can't tell youhow many times a 20-minute
conversation with one of themhas changed my entire
perspective of the individual.
Yeah, and and and it's reallyforcing yourself to step away
(31:03):
from the day to day and findingtime for those kinds of
interactions.
Yeah, everybody's, everybodyhas a reason for what they're
doing.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, I like that a lot, especially with trying to
identifying that Mount Everestearly on.
Identifying that Mount Everestearly on because it, I think,
where a lot of mental healthstruggles come in is especially
um.
So I have a lot of loved onesand people that I know that have
different uh, they're on thespectrum of how depressed they
(31:33):
feel, you know, um, andultimately what it comes down to
is feeling like I have to dothis again.
For the rest, of my life like ifit's the exact.
Every day is the exact samething and that's it, like I'm
gonna wake up.
What is it?
It's like uh, have to work topay my bills, or like the bills
(31:53):
for the pills so I get morepills to get on anyways, like
this whole vicious cycle of likeI have to work and it's just
like it's never gonna end.
And so I like identifyingsomething, some mountain that
they're working towards and thenjust helping.
You know, you're justrealigning them on that of like.
Hey, you know, yeah, there'sfires every single day when you
show up to work and there's hardthings and this resident
(32:14):
might've been upset or rude toyou today, but you're working
towards this bigger thing andjust like realigning it's like
you're showing up and doing ADLsevery day but it's for a bigger
purpose, because you want toreach this thing.
I think is good insight to tryto help other administrators, to
help their staff stay on thatpath, so that way they don't it
(32:36):
doesn't feel like I'm going toshow up again tomorrow and it's
going to be the exact same thingand that's it.
And I think that's what alsoleads to churn a lot of the time
.
Is they?
If they're just going to haveto do the same thing every day,
might as well go find a placewhere they get paid more.
You know we're getting close ontime, but I have a few
questions about care life.
So what goals have you achievedso far this year at care life
(32:58):
that set you apart and what areyour goals or what are some
things that you're excited aboutat care life over this, like
next year?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So, uh, care life, and again I'll I'll reference
another book, so it's a bookcalled uh, 4,000 weeks.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Um, 4,000 weeks is the average amount of weeks you
have in a lifetime.
Um, and it kind of gives youperspective.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
In that sense it doesn't seem like a lot at all.
Right Like years, 80 years, 80years sounds great, you know but
4,000 weeks doesn't sound likeany at all.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So my journey with CareLife came from a decision of
like I like assisted living, Ican stay in senior living.
There's lots I can do likeassisted living, I can stay in
senior living, there's lots Ican do in senior living.
But you really only get anopportunity like this one once.
And like how many more times isthat going to happen in my
(33:55):
4,000 weeks, you know?
And so it's jumping in andlearning something that's
completely different.
But what drives that for me isthe ability I do feel like it
has to change the industry Atthe core of what Care Life is.
(34:16):
We keep residents safer thanever before.
And like I don't want to soundlike the guy, but it's like I've
seen things, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Um, things, things that have happened during my
career that, uh, we could havenever prevented but they, but
it's unfortunate that theyhappen, you know, um, because
seniors, um, they, they, theyhave accidents, right, they fall
, they get hurt, and it's up tothe people that work in there to
(34:46):
live with those outcomes, andthat's hard.
And then the other side of itis like giving caregivers a goal
and accountability within thework that they do, and so a lot
of the design in the system thatwe built is with a real
intentional understanding ofcaregivers, how to motivate them
(35:09):
and how to hold themaccountable and help them take
better care of the residents andultimately, providing tools to
operators operators to betterunderstand each community.
And so, for me, what I'veachieved in this space is like I
(35:30):
took a leap.
I left the career that I lovedand enjoyed to try something new
and see if I can have a biggerreach than just the walls of my
own community.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, I think that's awesome.
The last question that, like Isaid, I always like to ask and
we kind of started with it, butwhat's one piece of advice that
you would give to somebody juststarting out in the senior care
space?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, I think a lot of people, when I've talked to
them, they don't know how tobreak in.
of people when I've talked tothem, they don't know how to
break in and my advice is uhthere's lots of people that can
apply for jobs, like a lot ofpeople have learned and mastered
that skill, um, but there's nota lot of people walking into
buildings and saying, hey, doyou mind if I sit here and learn
(36:17):
?
Um, that's awesome.
There's not a lot of peopleconnecting and having
conversations with people onLinkedIn about how they got that
way or got where they're at intheir careers and so, not being
afraid to reach out, haveconversations, be a little nosy,
be a little intrusive into theenvironment and kind of demand,
(36:41):
an opportunity to learn and growin the space is a way to set
yourself apart.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, I think that's great advice.
Last last question.
Last question, for real thistime who should reach out for
Care Life and how should theyreach out if they're interested
in getting Care Life installedinto their community?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, contact me, caden, at carelife, and I'd love
to talk to you about it, why Iabandoned my career to go after
it and to change the world withit.
Because that's the ultimategoal Climb to the top of Everest
.
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, I can wholeheartedly recommend that
you reach out to Caden andCareLife.
I think it could make a hugeimpact in all the communities
and they are making impact inall the communities that you're
already in.
So again, thanks, caden, forcoming on Senior Care Academy
and I really enjoyed theconversation.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Always a pleasure.
Welcome to Senior Care Academy.
Today's guest is Caden Grinko.
He's a forward-thinking leaderin senior living, currently
serving as the Director ofBusiness Development at CareLife
.
You may recognize CareLife fromour recent episode with Ezra
Torres, another remarkable voicein this transformative
organization.
Caden's work focuses onelevating quality of life for
seniors through innovativetechnologies and empathetic care
(00:22):
strategies, reinforcing ourdedication to showcasing
industry authorities who set newstandards.
With a master's in healthadministration from Weber State
University, caden brings bothdepth and leadership to senior
care.
His expertise extends beyondcare life as the founder of
Telos Consulting, where hedrives impactful changes in
sales and operations withinsenior living.
He also sits on the UtahCitizens Living Association
(00:44):
Board, helping out inlegislation, marketing and
education.
His career journey, includingroles as executive director and
director of health services,reflects his commitment to
integrating empathy andinnovation in senior care.
In this episode, we're going todive into his strategic
approaches, his role in pushingboundaries in elder care and his
unique vision for the future.
Caden's perspective offersvaluable insights into the
(01:07):
industry and will resonate withlisteners seeking expert advice,
especially those who share ourmission of compassionate,
advanced senior care.
Caden, thanks for coming onSenior Care Academy.
I'm excited to talk to you moreabout senior care kind of your
journey, any advice you have,people getting into it and stuff
that you've learned along theway.
How did your career start?
Tell us about, like your earlyyears and the journey that
(01:30):
you've went on to lead you towhere you are now.
What got you originally in thesenior care?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Senior living is an interesting space because I
don't think a lot of peoplestart their schooling or
anything planning to go into it,right, Like it's not a career
that you have since you're alittle kid, Like I'm going to go
do this right yeah, when I growup.
It's not talked about on theplayground as something you work
towards, but for me, Iinitially got my start in health
(01:57):
care in a physical therapyoffice.
Oh interesting, and I loved it.
I loved everything about sportsmedicine.
I was an athlete myself.
But the problem with kind ofany career that I've had is I
spend enough time in it and Iget bored of what's going on.
You learn the routine and aftera little bit in physical
(02:21):
therapy it was the same kneeankle, shoulder, hip over and
over again, same diagnosis, samethree exercises.
Exactly, and it just didn't havethe same alert that it
originally had.
So I was forced to kind of makea pivot, and I started that
pivot even within the physicaltherapy office that I was
working for.
Yeah, I started doing marketingfor them, outreaching to a
(02:44):
bunch of different places Infact.
I saw a need for them to dothat, and so I took a proposal
to them one day and said, hey, Ithink I can help grow your
company.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I know I've just been an aide here, but if you give
me a chance, here's my plan.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
That's awesome.
What do you think of it?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, and they were willing to take that shot.
Let me kind of learn as I goand do a bunch of things for
them.
And then I liked I still knewthat I liked healthcare and I
wanted to be in it.
So I changed my careertrajectory to go be part of
(03:21):
healthcare administrationinstead, because the business
side seemed to always haveproblems that needed solving
right.
Yeah, instead, because thebusiness side seemed to always
have problems.
Yeah, that needed solving,right.
Yeah, so for me, uh, that hasalways been the allure uh unique
problem every day exactly yeah,that is an interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
A lot of people want not the unique problem, so it's
a good, good persona that youhave to be able to build, step
into the problems every day.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Space exactly, but I got to keep them new and fresh
right.
So I have to keep breakingthings or finding new ways to
fix them and, and, and, reallyjust tinkering with it and so um
so I entered that program notreally knowing what I wanted to
do yeah um, and one of mymentors has suggested just go
into different types ofhealthcare environments, yeah,
(04:06):
and just see what's going on.
So I went to clinics, I went tohospitals and eventually I ended
up in a beehive homes inBrigham City Wow, and fell in
love with it and beehive isbasically.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It's like converted houses, so they're relatively
small communities, right, ohyeah?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, normally you're going to see a size of like 15
to 20 beds and an administrator.
That is over everything.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So really unique in that sense, just super important
for anyone looking to get intothe career because you do get
that hands-on experience of whatgoes on in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
What goes on with activities?
What goes?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
on with maintenance and, frankly, I went in and I
started, I called myself anintern, even though they didn't
really have an intern program.
They let me hang out and askquestions and and just learn
from the environment there.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, I think that's a unique perspective a lot of
the people.
One of the questions theyalways ask is like what advice
do you have somebody gettingthis space and like super common
answer is like you gotta lovethe people or you have to like,
it has to be more than um, justlike work or seniors.
I think that that's the firsttime that we heard like if you
want to get into senior carespecifically like retirement,
(05:30):
this space, go into a smallercommunity so you can touch all
pieces.
That's a interesting piece oflike.
Get in so you understand allthe ins and outs, rather than
going to, you know, a managementcompany that has their smallest
building, is like 75 beds.
It's like go find somethingsmall where you're super
intimately related to everyaspect of the business.
I think that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, yes, start small, with small knowledge, and
then grow into it from there,because that's like, I started
as that intern and theneventually they gave me um an
opportunity yeah uh, notnecessarily the opportunity that
I would pick, but that's whatopportunities are yeah um, so I
made the decision to move myfamily down to price utah nice
(06:11):
manage, manage two communitiesdown there, um and uh, man, it
was a wild ride.
Yeah, first, first, uh, likethey dropped me off, they.
They kind of felt like I knewwhat I was doing because I had
interned for so long.
My nearest help was three hoursaway.
I took her through the canyonand the first five days I got
the cops in my office right.
(06:33):
Wow, and just wild things goingon.
The state had just visited thethings had with the previous
ownership.
They had been in some financialtrouble.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And that led to state trouble.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So lots of tags like 42 or something like that I
think when I, when I had walkedin and like so.
So a giant, a giant problemlike I had always hoped for and
dreamed for, right?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
yeah, there you go and uh, and you know, you start,
you start um first things first, second things not at all right
, yeah, so you prioritize andyou start working towards it
yeah, um.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So how has your perspective changed and kind of
evolved over the years, startingfrom a single um facility as
that intern and then gettingjust right into the fiery pit
and then now kind of whereyou're at, where you're actually
helping other assisted livingsand where you had your
consulting for a while.
What's what perspectives havepersisted and what's changed
(07:31):
over the years of being in theindustry?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that you learn um
as a as an executive director inassisted living, is number one,
and this has taken me some time.
Um, you can't do it alone.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And then when I look back on my greatest successes,
it's not necessarily grandefforts or heroic movements from
myself.
It's more of a combination ofgreat team members, great people
that I invested time in todevelop, people that I gave
opportunities um to really shine, or people that were they were
(08:09):
in the wrong seat on the bus.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Um, and instead of moving on from them, having
in-depth conversations andfinding the right seat for them
and then watching them flourish?
Yeah, so team development ishuge for me.
Um, I don't know exactly when,but but but it's been a long
time since I haven't had aninterview with somebody, or one
of the first um questions Iasked them is, like what their
(08:32):
goals look like.
Yeah, to me, interviews are waymore of a conversation, um, to
find out if somebody ismotivated, if they have a dream,
why they want to be in there,um and that, and then working
with them to help themaccomplish what they're doing.
Because that's what I approachthe industry in, and so that's
kind of how I've looked ateveryone else.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It's like.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You're here for a reason.
You have a purpose.
Can we find it and can we worktogether?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
to get it.
I think that's awesome.
I think that's a good learningcurve as well.
It's like especially earlypeople, those people that you
like that are driven and thathave a goal, they think that the
way that they can progress.
Obviously there's truth, sometruth to it, but it's like the
Herculean amount of effort andeverything's on my back and
that's how I'm going to grow.
(09:16):
But it's like actually moreespecially in the senior care
space, because it does take kindof a village to help the people
that we help, to be able tocollaborate and you know, uh,
trust other people that you workwith and show that you're, um,
contributing as a team, eventhough it feels really good to
be crazy busy and being like,yeah, I'm the, I'm the man or
(09:38):
the woman, I guess, um, in this,in this community, and
everybody can count on me, whichwhich is great, but it's even
better to be like, hey, let'swork together, like
collaborating, and just that's agreat insight and lesson that
you've learned.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, those feelings.
Those feelings are awesome,except for, like, when you want
to take a vacation or, like you,want to get to your kid's
soccer game or just like thelittle things in life where
we're like can't you guys solveone problem without?
me Right and then all of asudden you've realized you've
put yourself in a box and growthcan't happen Like you're only
able to do so much as one person.
(10:12):
And to me that was a lesson ofleadership that I had to learn
quickly because if not, likethere were too many problems to
tackle.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, definitely leads to burnout.
What are some things that youor?
What do you?
Believe are some of the mostproblems to tackle?
Yeah, definitely leads toburnout.
Yeah, um, what are some thingsthat you, or what, what do you
believe are some of the mostoverlooked aspects of senior
care that, um, um, couldsignificantly impact the life of
the residents or the clients?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, I've worked in very small companies and I work
for very large corporations, andapproaches from both sides are
very different and I think bothsides could learn some things
from each other.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And a lot of that comes down to financial barriers
.
Sometimes, obviously, you justhave more money to throw at
things in larger groups.
But the biggest takeaway isreally understanding the work
that you're requiring fromeveryone.
Far too often have I seen asolution to a problem that
(11:15):
someone brings to a corporateoffice or someone else.
That's like well, let's justget you another form for you to
fill out and meticulouslymaintain throughout the day,
right?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I was like well, I don't need more paperwork, I
don't need more of this.
I need help addressing theconcerns of this resident or
this family member or my team.
And like I need real solutionsto that instead of something
else that I have to maintainRight.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Um and so and so that's kind of always been my
approach and and and maybe I, um, maybe I just look at problems
differently.
Instead of problems beingunsolvable, like there's always
a new solution or or aninnovation to it or or a
different spin on it, yeah anduh, taking those and and coming
(12:04):
up with crazy ideas and, and andadmittedly, some of my ideas
have failed um yeah, and, and Itry and learn from those, but uh
, there's the occasional onethat hits that.
That, I think is is fun andbrings a new light to the game.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, I love that.
I think being a hurdle removeris one of the biggest things
that a lot of times, peopleeither add hurdles, like I said,
an extra form, or they're justlike that hurdles there and it's
been there for however long.
So that's what you have to do,but just like removing those,
what are one of those crazyideas that you've had that have
hit that you're really proud of?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean.
So activities was a piece thatI always I mean I struggled with
it, even having worked likeearly, early on, as wasn't
necessarily an activitiesdirector, but I worked in an
afterschool program with kids.
And so every day was trying tocome up with something new to
entertain them, yeah, to keepthem engaged until mom.
(12:59):
Um and like that was fun.
But for me, um, I always feltlike activities and assisted
living needed some sort offacelift, Like like we can only
do bingo so much.
Um, and I worked with a lot ofdifferent companies where where
they felt like they had it, Um,and I could never quite get the
engagement level that I thoughtshould be there.
(13:21):
And so I sat down with my teamand I kind of interviewed them
on, like what they liked to do,and then we looked at the budget
and compared like okay, well,if you really like 3D printing,
can we get a 3D printer here?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And can you do a demonstration with the elderly
and can you?
Have them get involved and solike.
From that point he had ameeting.
It was the maintenance director.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Went out and spoke with the residents, taught them
how it works and then, all of asudden, they're asking him for
little gadgets and things likehey, can you make this so it
goes on my keys, so they canturn their key easier?
Yeah and like little thingslike that yeah um, and so then
it was identifying all of thedifferent um hobbies that my
(14:09):
whole team enjoyed, yeah, andthen offering the residents to
engage with him on that levelyeah and so from my aspect um,
this is going to make me soundlike a total nerd, but it was an
idea that I always thoughtwould be fun we held a Dungeons
Dragons game with a handful ofresidents.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I had a friend who's really into it.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
So he brought all of his stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
He led the campaign.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
We helped walk them through it all, and it was
amazing was um.
It was amazing to see themparticipate in something that
you'd never see seniors doingyeah and so again, thinking
outside of the box and anengaging team with the goal um
and aligning all those together,yeah is where I've seen awesome
stuff happen.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
That's pretty cool what kind of results did you see
kind of on both sides as far asdid you see more residents
showing up?
And then I wonder, did thathave an impact on, especially,
like your direct care staff thata lot of times are in the
industry?
They're kind of churningthrough jobs, are going to the
highest bidder kind of thing.
Were they more engaged and like, enjoyed their work more by
(15:15):
being able to be involved inthat sense?
Or what impact did it have onboth sides?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, there were definitely activities that
showed up as stinkers, you knowlike nobody.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Nobody was there for us.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And it's like, well, did we market that right?
Could we get them to go?
And, yeah, and even some ofthem, there was some arm
twisting like, no, come try thisout.
Yeah, right, but I do feel likeif you can get your staff to
buy in, they'll work harder ongetting the residents to buy in
yeah.
And residents are like.
(15:48):
The adage is like when you'reold, you're stuck in your ways.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, old dog, new trick Right.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And to me that has never really applied.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
If you have a good enough relationship with your
residents, they're open to allsorts of new concepts.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that that's a myth thatis slowly getting debunked and
continues to, but we were at theSenior Expo in Salt Lake a few
weeks ago and the question thatwe were asking to get seniors to
stop was what's somethingyou've always wanted to learn
but you haven't yet?
And at least I would say 85%would say something specific.
(16:28):
Oh my gosh, I've always wantedto learn this specific thing.
And they're like 85, 90.
And they're still like.
I've always wanted to learnthis.
So like, the whole idea of likeyou can't learn, yeah, it's
totally a lie.
And then 10 would be likethere's so many things, I can't
name one and it was like fivepercent.
That was like I'm too old, Ican't, and I was like I
guarantee you can, um, but outof like a hundred people, only a
(16:52):
handful would say like or ahandful would say no, I can't,
and so like.
It's totally a myth that I thinkis ruining a lot of like said
activities directors, where it'slike we've got bingo.
They're like their little, youknow their drawer that they pull
out right, insert genericsenior activity rather than
(17:14):
actually diving in, being like.
I wonder if seniors would takea liking to 3D printing and then
like having it be a huge hit,so that's way cool.
Yeah, let me see what's.
Oh, there's a good one.
How do you know that?
How do you know you're makingprogress in senior care
specifically, maybe as anadministrator or just as an
industry as a whole?
How do we know that progress ishappening?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
as an industry as a whole.
How do we know that progress ishappening?
Um, progress is a game.
Uh, there's a book calledatomic habits, where they refer
to as aggregation of marginalgains.
Yeah, and sometimes you want toget to 100 right away but, but
for the most part you have to bepatient and get the 1% for that
(18:03):
next day.
And then the next day you'reworking on how do we get 1% to
another 1% and to another one,and then growth happens.
In that regard, and that hasfar more often been for me the
rule.
It's like we do improvementsand again it's focusing on, like
(18:24):
I said, the first things firstand then the second things
really not at all.
And I think that's where a lotof directors get confused is
they get caught up in thedemands of every day and they go
and they try and put out all ofthose fires.
Yeah of every day and they goand they try and put out all of
those fires, instead of beingreally intentional about like,
okay, I've got seven differentdepartments.
I'm going to focus on this onetoday, um, and I'm going to work
(18:45):
on them and let the other oneskind of float, yeah, um, until
I'm happy with how they'reoperating and they understand
their role, and then I can leavethat piece of the castle and go
to the next one and then slowlydevelop again the team, the
right players and the rightprocesses in order to take on
whatever challenge comes my wayand ultimately, for my own
(19:09):
sanity.
So I don't have to feel like Ihave to play hero every day so.
I can leave for 10 days, not geta phone call and come back and
not have to play three weeks ofcatch up afterwards.
State can show up and I'm notthinking this was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, right, yeah, I like that a lot.
I think a good comparison thatI've heard that I really liked
was especially in this spacewhere there is like it's
inevitable that you're going toshow up the next morning with
some a handful of fires atminimum.
And so the defining if it's atrash can fire or a wildfire.
(19:43):
Trash can fire it sucks andit's going to be hot, but it's
contained in a trash can, it'sgoing to burn out eventually on
its own, versus something that'slike a real problem.
Real problems burn bigger andbigger and bigger because
they're not taking time to belike I'm focusing on this
department today to make surethat that gets smaller and
things are getting handled, andso they're chasing around all
(20:06):
these trashcan fires that go outby themselves and then all of a
sudden they turn around.
There's like California's onfire you know, and so that's a
(20:32):
really good thing, and I thinkI'd love to ask a little bit
about your.
They believe can help people.
So what need does TELOS provideand what made you feel like you
should start doing someconsulting?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, so I think assisted living, every building
is unique and I've beenfortunate enough in my career
that I've seen a lot ofdifferent kinds of buildings.
I've been in the very small tothe very large kinds of
buildings.
I've been in the very small tothe very large.
I've seen one unit giantproperties to a very spread out,
seven different buildings onthe same piece of land, Huge
(21:04):
campus basically.
Big campus yeah, Seven acres andlots of places to go.
So I have a unique perspectiveof being able to walk into a
building and then seeing kind ofthe fit for the market and then
developing a plan to make thatbuilding successful.
And so why I started it?
(21:25):
Honestly, I was approached.
They're like, hey, you seempretty good at this.
We've heard your reputation.
People like what you do.
And then from there it's likecan I do this?
It's something new.
Why not Start before you'reready?
is another phrase I always tellmyself is like jump in and then
figure it out, and like there'sdefinitely been growing pains
(21:47):
there.
And again, I never profess toalways have the right answer,
but I do always try to do theright thing and to learn from
any mistakes that I do make, andthat has been it's been an
incredible growing experience.
I've appreciated everythingthat's come from it.
Even what I'm doing now startedas a consulting role with Care
(22:14):
Life and talking about how wecan better approach and help
senior living.
Um, and then, over three yearstime, grew into an opportunity
that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, I like.
I think that's a greatmentality that more people
should have.
I don't know if you've seenthat.
Um, it's like a short of jasonmomoa and it's like I think it's
jason, it's like.
I don't know that answer, butI'll do everything I can to find
that's something that peopleneed to have, like you don't
need the answer to get startedor to try to help, but do
everything you can to get theanswer as you're like working on
it.
So what?
(22:47):
Let me see what are some of thebiggest logistical hurdles that
you've seen, whether personallyor as you're consulting, in
scaling a senior care or anassisted living.
And then what approach hasworked best for you to overcome
those logistical hurdles?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I think senior living is in an interesting time
.
Right now there's a lot goingon where the market is growing.
All projections say that supplyand demand is going to shift to
where there's going to be anincreasing amount of demand from
seniors.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The silver tsunami is coming, yeah.
At the same time we, covid,kind of put a microscope over
the industry, said that there'sthings that we could be doing
better and there's legislativemovements to hold us accountable
to that.
And then, finally, I thinkanother thing COVID did was
(23:40):
consolidate a lot of properties.
A lot of the mom and pop shopscouldn't keep up and so they
sold off.
And then these largercorporation groups they're
taking over in management andownership and that is creating
Definitely more competition inwho can provide the best product
(24:04):
, and that always leads to moredemand for data, information,
analytics and reallyrevolutionizing how senior
living does business.
I mean it was not very long agowhere senior livings were still
all on paper.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, and then they saw Everything was just in a
filing cabinet Exactly Filingcabinets.
Folders Makes me cringe alittle bit.
Yeah, just thinking abouttrying to operate a business
like that Just an absolutelycrazy time.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
And I think most people have moved on to some
version of an EHR system andagain I see the future is where
it gets even more and moredefined by technology.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, I like that a lot With kind of the different
changes, especially kind of withCOVID.
Another thing that we'verecovered, I feel like for the
most part, but during COVIDthere was a big push obviously
like staying in place, and Ithink it's very.
A lot of seniors want to age inplace.
So how do senior carefacilities, how do you kind of
(25:10):
adapt to balance the trend withseniors that want to age in
place but also there's a lotthat are aging in place that
really ought to be in aretirement community or care
facility of some sort, to kindof reshape the way that people
are thinking about aging inplace versus moving into a
community?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well, so that's the game that.
I think there's markets rightnow where the price of moving
into the senior living is almostequivalent to hiring your own
personal at-home caregiver.
And so then, what is yourjustification for moving into a
senior living at that point?
If home is best and that'swhere I want to be Senior
livings have gotten good and arecontinuing to get better at
(25:54):
programming, because it's notjust being at home.
It's like what's your diet looklike?
What's um, what's yoursocialization look like, and,
and, and both of those things,in particular um, are, are
crucial to to the senior'slifestyle, um.
But beyond that, it's like howcan you guarantee that you're
(26:17):
not going to be left on thefloor right Like?
things like that in your homethere's risks that are involved
and really it's up to the seniorlivings to prove to the
prospective resident that whatthey offer is better.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And like that's hard because everybody loves their
home.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Like nobody wants to move out of it, but at some
point I often think about whatassisted livings of the future
would be like.
Am I going to be excited tomove in?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
there.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Or am I going to be clawing at the door to stay at
my house?
Yeah, and really I thinkthere's evolutions happening
there.
Like I said, it comes down towhat kind of activities are we
offering?
Are we making a better efforton on doing things differently
to to attract a different kindof resident?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's.
I mean, that's in essence whatsales is when the when, what
you're offering greatlyoutweighs the cost of doing it,
and the cost not just being aprice, but like the cost of
staying in home, like you said,from nutrition to engagement, to
overall health, to mentalhealth, that cost is greatly.
(27:30):
The value that you're gettingjust minimizes the cost in any
sense.
And so I do think that there'sgoing to be a trend, especially
in assisted living, where it'snot just you know we have great
care staff going to be a trend,especially in assisted living
where it's not just you know wehave great care staff and some
fun activities, it's, it's goingto kind of be a whole.
It's going to be an offer.
You know, it can't just be likethis is a great option for you.
(27:50):
It's like they're going to haveto make a sales offer.
Um, that greatly outweighs anybenefits that they're going to
have by staying at home.
And I think it'll be aninteresting thing over the next
five, 10 years seeing that offertake place, where assisted
living becomes a place where,like I said, when we're, you
know, 50 years from now, 60years from now, and we're like
at that point where we need tomake a decision, or even earlier
(28:12):
, who knows, by the time we're60, maybe we're like, yeah, this
whole homeownership thing'soverrated, I want to move into
an assisted living, which wouldbe a cool thing to see.
Okay, we've got a few more isoverrated, I want to move into
an assisted living right, whichwould be a cool thing to see.
(28:33):
Um, uh, okay, we're gonna filmright.
So, uh, kind of a shiftingquestion.
But there's been a big focus onmental health, kind of across
all age groups.
Um, how do you see senior carespecifically like assisted
living, um evolving to meetthose needs?
And then, what personalexperiences have you had that
kind of shapes the perspectiveon mental wellness for seniors.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
For seniors or those that work in there.
I have both, I mean, and again,my perspective is always towards
the people in the industrybecause that's who I, as an
executive director, like you,rarely you get moments with
seniors, but lot of your um timeis time is with your team,
(29:11):
right, um?
But from the senior side, again, like everybody needs a purpose
.
There's a few books out there,um, I think it's eden effect is
one of them, where it talksabout giving a purpose.
Some guy went out and he got abunch of birds and plants for
residents and and them all a jobto take care of one or the
other and all of their healthmarkers increased because he did
(29:31):
that.
Purpose is kind of fundamentalto all of us and, again, it's
not getting caught up in theday-to-day, it's understanding
why you're there, and I guessthis is a throwback to what we
originally started talking about.
Um, what are your goals?
What are you working towards?
If you keep that in mind?
Um, another phrase that we useat my in in my home all the time
(29:55):
is like, like, how are youdoing today?
I'll say that to my wife andand her response will be well,
yeah, it's just another.
Another day on the slope ofmount everest, because um it's
all about the climb right, yeah,I like
that and so and so, like youtake that into account and what
you're doing, and then, and whenyour goal is to reach the
summit, then then the day-to-daythings don't hit so hard.
(30:19):
Yeah, yeah, but mental healthis going.
I think we have to really takestock of how we talk to our
employees, the demands we makeof them and really listen to the
problems we're having.
And similarly with ourresidents.
(30:41):
Like you have a resident thathas behavioral issues, is
depressed, like I can't tell youhow many times a 20-minute
conversation with one of themhas changed my entire
perspective of the individual.
Yeah, and and and it's reallyforcing yourself to step away
(31:03):
from the day to day and findingtime for those kinds of
interactions.
Yeah, everybody's, everybodyhas a reason for what they're
doing.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, I like that a lot, especially with trying to
identifying that Mount Everestearly on.
Identifying that Mount Everestearly on because it, I think,
where a lot of mental healthstruggles come in is especially
um.
So I have a lot of loved onesand people that I know that have
different uh, they're on thespectrum of how depressed they
(31:33):
feel, you know, um, andultimately what it comes down to
is feeling like I have to dothis again.
For the rest, of my life like ifit's the exact.
Every day is the exact samething and that's it, like I'm
gonna wake up.
What is it?
It's like uh, have to work topay my bills, or like the bills
(31:53):
for the pills so I get morepills to get on anyways, like
this whole vicious cycle of likeI have to work and it's just
like it's never gonna end.
And so I like identifyingsomething, some mountain that
they're working towards and thenjust helping.
You know, you're justrealigning them on that of like.
Hey, you know, yeah, there'sfires every single day when you
show up to work and there's hardthings and this resident
(32:14):
might've been upset or rude toyou today, but you're working
towards this bigger thing andjust like realigning it's like
you're showing up and doing ADLsevery day but it's for a bigger
purpose, because you want toreach this thing.
I think is good insight to tryto help other administrators, to
help their staff stay on thatpath, so that way they don't it
(32:36):
doesn't feel like I'm going toshow up again tomorrow and it's
going to be the exact same thingand that's it.
And I think that's what alsoleads to churn a lot of the time
.
Is they?
If they're just going to haveto do the same thing every day,
might as well go find a placewhere they get paid more.
You know we're getting close ontime, but I have a few
questions about care life.
So what goals have you achievedso far this year at care life
(32:58):
that set you apart and what areyour goals or what are some
things that you're excited aboutat care life over this, like
next year?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So, uh, care life, and again I'll I'll reference
another book, so it's a bookcalled uh, 4,000 weeks.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Um, 4,000 weeks is the average amount of weeks you
have in a lifetime.
Um, and it kind of gives youperspective.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
In that sense it doesn't seem like a lot at all.
Right Like years, 80 years, 80years sounds great, you know but
4,000 weeks doesn't sound likeany at all.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So my journey with CareLife came from a decision of
like I like assisted living, Ican stay in senior living.
There's lots I can do likeassisted living, I can stay in
senior living, there's lots Ican do in senior living.
But you really only get anopportunity like this one once.
And like how many more times isthat going to happen in my
(33:55):
4,000 weeks, you know?
And so it's jumping in andlearning something that's
completely different.
But what drives that for me isthe ability I do feel like it
has to change the industry Atthe core of what Care Life is.
(34:16):
We keep residents safer thanever before.
And like I don't want to soundlike the guy, but it's like I've
seen things, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Um, things, things that have happened during my
career that, uh, we could havenever prevented but they, but
it's unfortunate that theyhappen, you know, um, because
seniors, um, they, they, theyhave accidents, right, they fall
, they get hurt, and it's up tothe people that work in there to
(34:46):
live with those outcomes, andthat's hard.
And then the other side of itis like giving caregivers a goal
and accountability within thework that they do, and so a lot
of the design in the system thatwe built is with a real
intentional understanding ofcaregivers, how to motivate them
(35:09):
and how to hold themaccountable and help them take
better care of the residents andultimately, providing tools to
operators operators to betterunderstand each community.
And so, for me, what I'veachieved in this space is like I
(35:30):
took a leap.
I left the career that I lovedand enjoyed to try something new
and see if I can have a biggerreach than just the walls of my
own community.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, I think that's awesome.
The last question that, like Isaid, I always like to ask and
we kind of started with it, butwhat's one piece of advice that
you would give to somebody juststarting out in the senior care
space?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, I think a lot of people, when I've talked to
them, they don't know how tobreak in.
of people when I've talked tothem, they don't know how to
break in and my advice is uhthere's lots of people that can
apply for jobs, like a lot ofpeople have learned and mastered
that skill, um, but there's nota lot of people walking into
buildings and saying, hey, doyou mind if I sit here and learn
(36:17):
?
Um, that's awesome.
There's not a lot of peopleconnecting and having
conversations with people onLinkedIn about how they got that
way or got where they're at intheir careers and so, not being
afraid to reach out, haveconversations, be a little nosy,
be a little intrusive into theenvironment and kind of demand,
(36:41):
an opportunity to learn and growin the space is a way to set
yourself apart.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, I think that's great advice.
Last last question.
Last question, for real thistime who should reach out for
Care Life and how should theyreach out if they're interested
in getting Care Life installedinto their community?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, contact me, caden, at carelife, and I'd love
to talk to you about it, why Iabandoned my career to go after
it and to change the world withit.
Because that's the ultimategoal Climb to the top of Everest
.
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, I can wholeheartedly recommend that
you reach out to Caden andCareLife.
I think it could make a hugeimpact in all the communities
and they are making impact inall the communities that you're
already in.
So again, thanks, caden, forcoming on Senior Care Academy
and I really enjoyed theconversation.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Always a pleasure.
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