August 27, 2025 • 30 mins
Planning for long-term care might be the most important conversation your family isn't having. In this eye-opening episode, Raymond Lavine, founder of Lavine LTC Benefits, reveals why waiting to address caregiving needs creates unnecessary financial and emotional burdens for families across America.
Drawing from his personal experience caring for both parents, Raymond shares powerful insights that go beyond insurance policies to the heart of what matters: preserving relationships when caregiving becomes necessary. "Wife should always be wife, son should always be son—not caregivers," he emphasizes, highlighting how proper planning maintains the integrity of our most important connections.
We explore the three critical questions everyone should answer: Where do you want your care? Who will be responsible for it? And how will you pay for it? Raymond brilliantly reframes long-term care insurance as "a warranty on you," helping listeners understand that humans, like machines, eventually need maintenance—and having a plan for that inevitable reality isn't pessimistic but practical.
The conversation tackles common misconceptions about long-term care benefits, explains how modern policies have evolved to be more efficient, and outlines the various options available depending on your specific needs and circumstances. Raymond's empathetic approach to what many consider an uncomfortable topic transforms the discussion from one of fear to one of empowerment.
Whether you're in your 30s planning decades ahead, approaching retirement, or concerned about aging parents, this episode provides essential guidance for navigating one of life's most challenging transitions. As Raymond powerfully concludes: "Have the conversation." Your future self—and your loved ones—will thank you.
• Long-term care insurance functions as "a warranty on you," protecting your most valuable asset: yourself
• Three fundamental questions everyone should address: Where do you want care? Who will provide it? How will you pay for it?
• Family relationships suffer when spouses and children become caregivers instead of maintaining their primary roles
• Caregiving is a specialized skill that most people haven't been trained to perform
• People delay planning because insurance isn't immediately gratifying and forces confrontation with mortality
• Benefits activate based on inability to perform daily activities, not specific medical diagnoses
• Modern policies have become more efficient with streamlined health assessments and various coverage options
• Raymond's personal experience caring for his father through three extended periods shaped his approach
Have the conversation about long-term care planning now—whether with Raymond Levine, a financial advisor, or another knowledgeable professional. Contact Raymond through LinkedIn or at https://raymondlavineofficial.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Senior Care Academy
podcast.
I'm your host, caleb, andtoday's episode is one that
you're definitely going to wantto listen to.
We are talking about somethingthat affects almost every family
at some point long-term careplanning and, more specifically,
the real cost of waiting toolong to plan.
To help us unpack thisimportant topic, I'm thrilled to
be joined by Raymond Levine,the founder of Levine LTC
(00:35):
Benefits.
Raymond has years of experiencehelping individuals and
businesses understand whycaregiving benefits aren't just
available, but they're essential.
He also brings personal insight, having walked through
long-term care experiences, bothhis father and his mother,
which give him a powerful andempathetic perspective.
I'm really excited to have you,raymond.
Thanks for giving us a fewminutes of your time.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, good afternoon and thank you for having me on
your podcast.
I'm delighted.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, kind of to jump right in and start off.
Raymond, could you share alittle bit about your journey?
How did you first get involvedin long-term care planning?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
A lot of people in my business.
If you ask a lot of long-termcare, they call me a long-term
care specialist.
I like to call myself anextended care benefit advisor,
benefit advisor.
They're all sort of the sametheme Everybody.
(01:31):
They've been involved withcaregiving with their parents,
with a spouse or with theirpartner.
There are others that get intoit because they're financial
planners or they're wealthadvisors or they're insurance
agents.
Does something happen where theysaid you know, yeah, this would
be a good benefit, goodinsurance plan to offer to my
(01:52):
clients?
I do have a thing about thatwhere you know that we all come
from different experiences withcaregiving.
But one of the things you knowas time goes on and you know
I've been in a long-term carebusiness is that there are a
couple of things that I thinkpeople need to understand about
(02:15):
what this product is and why youknow it's a value and a lot of
your.
You know the people that youhave as guests on your program.
They're on the other side.
They're the caregivers.
They're the people that areinvolved in the day-to-day
caregiving.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, exactly, or like operators or like different
people that benefit from thelong-term care programs or do
the things, but they don't know.
I I would definitely want todive into kind of that.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And that's the thing is, I'm the money person.
The problem is it isn'tcaregiving.
The problem is you have aperson that needs caregiving and
then people's families.
So ultimately it's about money,it's about dollars, it's about
people's time, it's about amotive.
And the other thing in thinkingabout it is that caregiving is
(03:11):
a skill.
Parenting is a skill.
Yeah, that's true, and when Iwas in high school and college,
I never took a course incaregiving.
I mean, of course, if you saidI could say the same thing about
marriage and a lot of otherthings, yeah, but but but it's a
, it's a skill level.
The other thing you know in thebeginning to think about it is
(03:33):
because the first thing when Ihave people that you know call
me to say how much does it cost,you know what's the premium,
you know I don't know if I want,and so they'll give you all the
.
You know you call themobjections, but what I think of
is they're not objections,they're just concerns or saying
you know what am I doing?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Things that they haven't been educated on yet.
And I think I wonder, with yourpersonal experience I don't
know if you want to jump toomuch into it, but taking care of
your parents' care needs, howdid that, how did that shape
your passion for it?
And then also the way that you,since you experienced it, how
did that shape the way that youdiscuss it with people when they
(04:10):
come out and like I don't knowif I want to pay this premium, I
imagine having lived.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It maybe gives you a different perspective that
you're able to share.
Well, there were actuallycertain segments about
caregiving.
My father needed caregiving forthree extended times in his
life.
The first time when he was inan automobile accident.
He was at a meeting inSacramento and they were driving
back in a car in a head-oncollision oh my goodness.
(04:43):
And the driver, you know, thehitter was killed, but the
passenger, you know, they wereall injured and he broke his
back.
I mean you know he was 80.
But that was months of recovery.
The second time he had, he felloff a horse because of his back.
(05:03):
So he fell off a horse and hebroke back.
So he fell off a horse and hebroke his hip and he broke his
arm and he was out of commissionfor a year.
I mean, he was in a hospitalbed for a year.
And then the third time he hadhad a heart condition and he had
a heart attack and that was aslow decline.
It took about two and a halfyears for him to die.
(05:25):
But in that time, you know andit was caregiving by my mother
my mother was also a lawyer andyou know she had a practice.
It's all the things that youknow I'm sure your other guests
have talked about is that onceyou're in caregiving it's up
close and personal.
(05:45):
Yeah, and other than you knowintimacy or death, you know
caregiving is about as intimateand personal as you're going to
get other than death andintimacy.
The point is that it involvespeople and you know I mean it
disrupted her life.
It's not that she didn't wantto do it, but it's hard work,
(06:12):
it's every day and thedifference between caregiving
and being a parent is that youknow you can pick them up or you
know you have.
You know you have legal control.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
They weigh 30 pounds, not 200 pounds.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, even if you're not even thinking about the
weight is that they're an adult,they have powers and they have
reasonabilities and they know,and you know, if they're not
feeling well, they can becurmudgeons.
I mean, they can be difficultpeople.
My father he was a good patient, especially with my mother.
They had a good marriage andthey had a good relationship
(06:52):
because they listened to eachother and they respected each
other.
And if he got a little bitornery, my mother had a good way
of putting him in his place.
I'll give you another.
She knew how to give himperspective.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Oh yeah, that's a good thing, that's a nice way.
Yeah, yeah, that I think yousaid something in there that I
thought was interesting, right,like you said, we know that
caregiving it's a very hands onintimate, all in can kind of
consume your life, and so why doyou think so many people delay
(07:29):
planning for caregiving and thenspecifically even like looking
into long term care options,when it is something that's so
kind of all-consuming once ithits you?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Let me just transition.
I'll sort of do a sort of aweave, but I will get to the
point of your question of youknow why don't people do it?
I'll give you the firstauthentic thing is who wants to,
who wants to buy insurance, andwhat's so exciting about buying
insurance or thinking about it?
What's so exciting aboutthinking about caregiving?
(08:03):
I mean, you know, if you say,yes, we're going to go on
vacation, yes, you know we'regoing to get you a, you know, a
really interesting car, you knowit's going to get you motivated
.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
But thinking about insurance and caregiving, yeah,
let's pay for insurance and hopewe might use it eventually,
kind of thing.
That's true.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That's right.
But you see and here's thedifference is that when people
think about insurance, theythink of it as sort of like a
fast food.
You look at the menu, you pickout what you want and you pay.
Or if you go to a restaurant,you're picking out of the menu.
(08:44):
You have an idea of what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah, you're like oh, I'm feeling like whatever, like
Italian, let's go to thisrestaurant, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, and you want the side, or you want the
dressing on the side.
You want onions in it.
Do you not want an onion in it?
You know you want sour creamand with long-term care benefits
.
This is another thing that ifyou're not aware or confused,
they'll go to where the last.
You know.
I mean a typical question.
I know, you know I do Sometimes.
(09:13):
It's you know what does it cost, you know what am I getting,
but it's not fast.
This is kind of benefit.
It's not fast food.
You know you really have to bepatient about it and you know
and this is where you know youknow people always talk about
you know, well, you knowinsurance salesmen are, you know
, being salesy or all.
(09:33):
It's really.
It's empathy, it's you know.
The first question I asked isyou know, why are we having this
conversation?
What is it that you want toaccomplish?
I don't say why do you want tobuy a long-term care benefit?
I mean, you know, sometimes Imight, depending on the
situation, but is, why are youeven thinking about it?
What is?
What is it that you think?
How?
(09:54):
How do you think that thismight help you?
I mean, you know you can ask alot of questions about it.
But I want to find out what'syour story about?
You know, caregiving Do youhave one, you know?
Is this something that concernsyou?
Have you had a parent or yourspouse, or have you been advised
to do it?
So you know, I want to beempathetic to find out.
Why do you want to do that?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I'm not going to give you statistics, I'm not going
to, you know, worry you or sayyou know, look, it's going to.
Yeah, scare tactics kind ofthing.
That's right, it's almost.
It's almost like long-term careand, I guess, insurance in
general.
But long-term care insurance,it's like I think of it's in
essence, you're buying yourselfsecurity in the long run.
Um, which is security is asintangible but also kind of like
air, like if the air is aroundus, we don't think about it
(10:43):
because it's available.
But as soon as you don't havesecurity, as soon as something-.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Or you don't have air , or you don't have air.
Yeah, You're like oh everythingis not okay.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
It's the same, I think, where you lose that
security aspect because you didn, because you didn't kind of you
didn't opt into long-term careinsurance, and then the air's
out of the room and you're like,holy crap, this is thousands
and thousands of dollars everymonth.
What I know, that's one big oneis the financial risk.
But what are some of thebiggest risks families face when
(11:13):
they, like, don't have along-term care?
Maybe policy, but also plan inplace.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, there are three things that I tell myself and I
tell people.
The first is where do you wantyour care?
Where do you want it?
Do you want it at home, andhave you organized your home?
You know, have you done homeimprovements, or you know what
have you done in your home orwhat do you need to do in your
home that you can stay in yourhome and it can be done?
(11:41):
And the second is who's goingto be responsible for your care?
Do you want professionalcaregivers to come in and do
certain things?
Do you want your family to befull or part-time, which I don't
recommend because there is aneconomic cost.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
there is an economic cost and not to, not to mention
the emotional, like I am a bigbeliever that wife should always
be wife, son should always beson, not wife and caregiver.
Son and care, like being ableto keep that relationship, minus
all of like the, the logisticsand like that come along with
kind of caregiving and the likein your privacy, kind of winning
(12:23):
.
So anyways, but I'll let youkeep going.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Right, but it depends on, you know, the relationship
with the family, what people arewilling to.
You know what responsibility,because it is, look, even if
it's it's, it's not family free,it's not friends free.
You know you're going to alwaysbe doing something, but the
(12:46):
thing is that, well, that's.
The third thing is how are yougoing to pay for it?
Because, as I was sayingearlier, I don't have caregiving
.
You know, I don't have a degreein caregiving and I don't, you
know.
I mean, I have an idea of itand I've done it.
But there's certain, sometimesmedical things.
(13:06):
Or you know, if you need totransfer somebody, do you have
the physical ability to do it?
And, depending on you know, ifyou're single or you have a
spouse or partner, you know theymay not be able to do that, or
there may be things that theyneed to take care of.
Or you know if somebody youknow is licensed as a nurse or
(13:29):
something you know that can giveyou injections.
I mean, the point is there aretimes that it makes sense to
hire a you know, a competent andskilled professional.
Well, you know a competent,skilled caregiver to do things
sometimes I don't want to do.
I just don't want to do it or Idon't know how to do it.
Yeah, I mean, it's the same asdo you want to clean your house?
(13:53):
Do you want to hirehousekeeping from time to time?
Cleaned your house, do you wantto hire you know housekeeping
from time to time?
Or do you want to, you know,spray wash the driveway?
Some people do it and they likeit.
Some people, you know, havethat skill and they're okay with
it.
But if it's something you needto do or you've got to do all
the time sometimes, I'd ratherit may not necessarily be less
(14:14):
expensive, but it certainly isgood for my mental health.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You have to have that mental to-do list of like oh my
gosh, I have to get around todoing this, that's right.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
That's right.
So those are the three thingswhen do you want your care,
who's going to be responsiblefor the care and where are the
funds going to be to do that?
And that's where you know sortof the.
You know people wait for, for,for, for.
For a lot of reasons not not.
(14:44):
The biggest is that it isn'tsomething that people you know
train, you know have the habitof thinking about.
When you get a car, you knowwhat do you?
What do you think about?
You think about, you know thecar, you think about payments
you think about and you thinkabout car insurance.
And you know, you know and, oryou want a home or a.
(15:05):
You know, you think you thinkabout that.
Or it'll say, yeah, you got tohave, you got to have the
insurance.
But the thing is, withcaregiving insurance, you know
what I something I came upon acouple months ago.
You know what caregivinginsurance is.
It's a warranty on you.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's a good way to say it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I mean a personal experience.
Our refrigerator motor went outand so you know a couple.
You know it took two visits oneto evaluate it, then order the
parts and today, you know today,he put a refrigerator and we
didn't have a warranty and I gotoff okay.
(15:55):
But the point is, humans aremechanical too and our
warranties expire or they needto be updated from time to time.
So I think long-term care, it'sa warranty that something is
going to happen.
You're either going to becomefrail, you're either going to
have an accident, you're goingto have an illness, or you have
a cognitive and cognitive is inmy world is sometimes when they
(16:22):
say well, you know, how longwill I need, what kind of plan
do I need and how long will Ineed it.
One of the things I'll ask themis you know, do you have
cognitive issues in your family?
Because you know you can last avery long time with a cognitive
issue.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Eventually you die because of heart issues or
things, but mental health— yeah,if you have even dementia and
things like that, you can bearound for a decade.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
That's right.
Like a long time, think ofReagan.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I mean, he lasted a long time.
Yeah, yeah, that's benefits.
There's one person that I canthink of, and this was years ago
, she.
I can't remember what she had,but basically she was wheelchair
bound for most of her life andanyway she turned 60 and she's,
like, I've been paying for theselong-term care.
I don't know what, I don't knowhow they work, or da da, da da.
So I would love to just whatare some misconceptions around
(17:35):
it that you've heard or maybeunknown, that people are afraid
of that you always have toovercome that.
We could just get out of theway for all the people that are
listening.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'll give you two words.
I forget.
Now let me explain what Iforget.
You know, I mean, I'm aconsumer too and I buy insurance
.
But what happens when, if thequestion is people that own long
term care benefits, they're notsure what it will do, sure what
(18:09):
it will do, it's because theyforget.
And the reason they forget isbecause you know it's not a
just-in-time benefit and it's awarranty for the future.
I mean again, in warranty youdon't say, gee, I hope you know
my appliance won't break down,but if it does, or my car, a lot
of other things, you havewarranties.
(18:31):
I mean, of course, that's whyyou know we own AAA, or you know
you own things or healthinsurance.
You know the reason you own itis not because you want to be
unhealthy, not because you wantto be ill, but when you do and
you will that you want to makesure that you're transferring
the risk to somebody else yeah,so that you can go.
(18:52):
You know somebody else so thatyou can go.
You know the illness itself ismiserable enough.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
But you don't want to have this massive bill, that's
right At the end of all.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
That's right.
I mean, how many do you know?
You take your car to the formaintenance and then you get a
call from a customer service.
Hi, Caleb, you know I want totalk to you about your car.
What's the first thing youthink about?
How much is it going to cost?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, how much maintenance is turned into a
$3,000 visit.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
That's right, that's right.
So that's what these plans do.
Is that?
It's not going to make, notgoing to solve, it's not going
to make somebody better, it'snot going to make somebody
healthier, but anyway, gettingback to the reason that people
forget is that if you get into acar accident, it's a car.
Your fender is bent or yourlights are broke.
(19:48):
Of course it's more difficultnow.
When I was young, you didn'thave all this electronic stuff.
Now you know the most expensive.
The reason car insurance ismuch higher is because cars
don't have the kind of bumpersand it's the electronics, I mean
it's the circuit boards and allthe sensors that they.
So that's what brings up thecost.
(20:12):
So with long-term care benefits,people forget that it's about
activities of daily living.
Now, you know I'm not going togive you this insurance language
, but activities of daily livingsimply mean it's not the
illness that you have, or theaccident or the illness.
It's what has it done to youthat you have mobility issues or
(20:38):
transferring issues, or youcan't drive or you can't
transition?
It's if that's what the illnesshas done, then you qualify.
Now the easy one, if you're ata certain point, is cognitive,
all you know.
If the doctor says, look, thisperson has, you know, call easy
one if you're at a certain pointis cognitive.
If the doctor says, look, thisperson has call it dementia,
(20:59):
call it whatever, alzheimer's,but you reach a point where you
need somebody to, you needcaregiving assistance.
Yeah, you need caregivingassistance.
So so you don't.
So that's the only one whereyou don't need two out of the
three.
If it's diagnosed you havecognitive and you're at that
that stage, then then you don't,you don't need anything else.
But that's what people forgetor they haven't been explained.
(21:23):
So the way I do it is I do asummary sheet.
You know, you don't even, youdon't even have to look at the
policy.
I mean, I'll have the policynumber, I'll have the phone
number, you know the insurancecompany, you know what this is,
I'll have the.
You know the claim forms.
It's actually a good idea everycouple of years.
You know, not only just withlong-term care.
(21:43):
You know your other insurance.
Just take a look at it.
Or you know if you have aninsurance agent now, it used to
be, you had insurance agents.
Now a lot of things are doneonline.
You can't do that so much withlong-term care.
But again, it's not a takeout ofa menu.
Yeah, Because they'reshort-term.
(22:04):
There's hybrid, there'straditional, there's
subscription.
There are a number of differentvariations of the same thing.
There are a number of differentvariations of the same thing.
So it depends on you know howlong you want to plan, you know
how much you want to cover inexpenses.
There's inflation benefits toit.
So, you know, maybe AI someday,you know you could say, look, I
(22:28):
want you know, here's my healthhistory.
And so you know, say yeah, youknow, here are three ideas.
Maybe AI will figure it outsomeday.
But in a way, actually it iseasy for me because there are
more software programs that Ihave access to that you know I
can do it quicker and faster.
(22:48):
Sometimes, you know I forget,so you know it's nice to be able
to look at it.
It quicker and faster.
Sometimes, you know I forget,so you know it's nice to be able
to look at it.
But the other thing is that itused to be for health assessment
.
This really annoyed people isthat they'd have to get doctor's
records and that sometimescould take two or three months
and that upset people.
And then you know if you wereto decline, that got them even
(23:09):
more upset.
Like what do you mean?
You know you're not going toinsure me.
Well, you know we didn't knowor had it in the doctor's record
, so we need to explain it.
But they become much moreefficient about that.
It's not perfect.
I mean you know everything I'mgoing to say it's not perfect,
but it's certainly.
You know people that complainabout warranty.
(23:30):
This is a good warranty product.
It really is.
If you have the right one,you've got to have.
You know, and the same with youknow, if you get homeowners
insurance but you don't get theright type of it, they'll say,
well, we didn't cover this.
Or you know you didn't get thisrider.
You know the insurance companyis not going to pay if it
doesn't fall within.
(23:50):
You know the parameters of whatof what you purchased.
But in most cases, if, if, if,if I have done what I always try
to do to you know, find outwhat is it that somebody, you
know what will solve yourcaregiving needs.
How will you pay for it?
And you have the plan.
(24:11):
Now again, some, you know, somepeople say, well, how long
should I have a plan?
You should have a two-year plan, should have a six-year plan,
should have a lifetime plan.
Of course, all you know, thelonger it goes, the more money.
You know it's pretty.
Then you know, then you're in amoney.
It's like you know, going.
Yeah, you know you want acorvette.
You know you pay 120 000.
Do you do?
You do you want a, a truck?
that has all the trimmings andthat's another 120,000.
(24:34):
Or you know, you know, maybeyou don't need, you know all
those trimmings, but do you,just you know, do you want to
lease a vehicle that will getyou from one place to another?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, exactly, that's a.
Really I love the analogy andkind of theme throughout the
whole thing of comparing it tolike an automobile warranty.
The time has flown on thisepisode but one.
A few last questions, but oneis what personal professional
goals are you working on that'smoving forward in this space?
Are there projects or likespecific things that you're
(25:10):
super excited about?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Well, I, just last year I published a book with
Chris Voss.
It's called Empathy andUnderstanding Business.
I'm also subscribing to, youknow, like longevity plans, and
also there's also a company thatI subscribe to where when I get
people's health assessmentinformation that it will help me
(25:33):
to figure out what plans orwhat their health situation,
what I can do for them and I cando it more efficiently.
Of course, the other big thingis that I've really been
involved with the Black SwanGroup in negotiating and in
negotiating.
It's made me a much moreinteresting person, a much more
(25:56):
you know of skills, where youknow I don't worry about
objections and I don't want it's.
You know it's asking people,you know it's again, it's
empathy.
Or you know somebody you knowis not you know wants to argue
with me.
I say, look, it seems like youknow this is what I'm doing.
It's just not your vision, it'sjust not what you're doing.
(26:18):
You know it's not what you want.
Oh, yeah, it is.
It is what it is.
Well, you know, I don't argue,I don't argue, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, so these are.
You know, it's Black Swan GroupMethods.
In fact, I'm going to ChrisVoss, who's the founder of Black
Swan Group.
He's going to interview me inSeptember, and so those are just
you know, and I'm doingpodcasts.
(26:48):
So these are things, you know,that I really like to do and I'm
enjoying it and it's making mesay hopefully, I think it's
making me a better person.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So if those are some, of the things that I'm that's
awesome is if you could leaveour listeners with just one
lasting message about whyplanning for caregiving and
getting long-term care insurance, why it matters not just like
financially, but for the peoplethat they love as well.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
What would you want them to remember in one or two
sentences.
Have the conversation, whetherit's with Raymond Levine or you
know, if you have, you know awealth advisor, or you have you
know somebody that you know is,you know is knowledgeable about
long-term care benefits, or youknow, selfishly, you know, have
the conversation, that's it.
Have the conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I love that.
I think that's great advice,raymond.
And then the last question iswho should reach out to Raymond
Levine?
How do they get a hold of youand things like that?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, you can contact me, Raymond Levine, on LinkedIn
.
You can go to my website,wwwlevine, l-a-v-i-n-e,
l-t-c-i-n-s dot com, and thoseare the two best places.
I mean.
You can also find me on thesearch engine.
Just put Raymond Levine and Ishould come up in the search
(28:23):
engines.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Sweet, sweet.
I've loved this conversation,raymond.
It's been insightful.
I think it's something thatmore people should talk about.
Just like how you don't thinkabout air until it's gone I
think it's you don't think aboutlong-term care and insurance
until you're in that situation.
You're like crap.
I should have started thinkingabout this 20 years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You know a quick story about that you talked
about.
You know, when I was in basictraining at Fort Bliss, texas,
there was one where you have agas mask day and you know they
are very specific.
One of the good learningexperience is that they will
(29:09):
make sure when they're teachingsomething, that you're going to
learn it and they're not kiddingaround.
And if you think that you know,oh, I'll just put this gas mask
on and I'll just do it any wayI want, what they do is they put
you, they put us in a, in a ina bunker, and they release the
gas and I'll get it.
(29:31):
You know it.
It stings you, you.
You never forget thatexperience.
But then you also learn how toyou know how to put it on your
gas.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
That's right.
That's awesome.
No, it's been a lot of it's.
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
I can't recommend you enoughfor people that are looking into
kind of long-term care and, and, yeah, follow you on LinkedIn
things.
But, yeah, thanks for spendingthis half hour with myself and
just being open and sharing yourinsights.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's been my pleasure .
I've I've be authentic.
I actually I had fun.
I'm having fun.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Good, good, good Sweet.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Senior Care Academy
podcast.
I'm your host, caleb, andtoday's episode is one that
you're definitely going to wantto listen to.
We are talking about somethingthat affects almost every family
at some point long-term careplanning and, more specifically,
the real cost of waiting toolong to plan.
To help us unpack thisimportant topic, I'm thrilled to
be joined by Raymond Levine,the founder of Levine LTC
(00:35):
Benefits.
Raymond has years of experiencehelping individuals and
businesses understand whycaregiving benefits aren't just
available, but they're essential.
He also brings personal insight, having walked through
long-term care experiences, bothhis father and his mother,
which give him a powerful andempathetic perspective.
I'm really excited to have you,raymond.
Thanks for giving us a fewminutes of your time.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, good afternoon and thank you for having me on
your podcast.
I'm delighted.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, kind of to jump right in and start off.
Raymond, could you share alittle bit about your journey?
How did you first get involvedin long-term care planning?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
A lot of people in my business.
If you ask a lot of long-termcare, they call me a long-term
care specialist.
I like to call myself anextended care benefit advisor,
benefit advisor.
They're all sort of the sametheme Everybody.
(01:31):
They've been involved withcaregiving with their parents,
with a spouse or with theirpartner.
There are others that get intoit because they're financial
planners or they're wealthadvisors or they're insurance
agents.
Does something happen where theysaid you know, yeah, this would
be a good benefit, goodinsurance plan to offer to my
(01:52):
clients?
I do have a thing about thatwhere you know that we all come
from different experiences withcaregiving.
But one of the things you knowas time goes on and you know
I've been in a long-term carebusiness is that there are a
couple of things that I thinkpeople need to understand about
(02:15):
what this product is and why youknow it's a value and a lot of
your.
You know the people that youhave as guests on your program.
They're on the other side.
They're the caregivers.
They're the people that areinvolved in the day-to-day
caregiving.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, exactly, or like operators or like different
people that benefit from thelong-term care programs or do
the things, but they don't know.
I I would definitely want todive into kind of that.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And that's the thing is, I'm the money person.
The problem is it isn'tcaregiving.
The problem is you have aperson that needs caregiving and
then people's families.
So ultimately it's about money,it's about dollars, it's about
people's time, it's about amotive.
And the other thing in thinkingabout it is that caregiving is
(03:11):
a skill.
Parenting is a skill.
Yeah, that's true, and when Iwas in high school and college,
I never took a course incaregiving.
I mean, of course, if you saidI could say the same thing about
marriage and a lot of otherthings, yeah, but but but it's a
, it's a skill level.
The other thing you know in thebeginning to think about it is
(03:33):
because the first thing when Ihave people that you know call
me to say how much does it cost,you know what's the premium,
you know I don't know if I want,and so they'll give you all the
.
You know you call themobjections, but what I think of
is they're not objections,they're just concerns or saying
you know what am I doing?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Things that they haven't been educated on yet.
And I think I wonder, with yourpersonal experience I don't
know if you want to jump toomuch into it, but taking care of
your parents' care needs, howdid that, how did that shape
your passion for it?
And then also the way that you,since you experienced it, how
did that shape the way that youdiscuss it with people when they
(04:10):
come out and like I don't knowif I want to pay this premium, I
imagine having lived.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It maybe gives you a different perspective that
you're able to share.
Well, there were actuallycertain segments about
caregiving.
My father needed caregiving forthree extended times in his
life.
The first time when he was inan automobile accident.
He was at a meeting inSacramento and they were driving
back in a car in a head-oncollision oh my goodness.
(04:43):
And the driver, you know, thehitter was killed, but the
passenger, you know, they wereall injured and he broke his
back.
I mean you know he was 80.
But that was months of recovery.
The second time he had, he felloff a horse because of his back.
(05:03):
So he fell off a horse and hebroke back.
So he fell off a horse and hebroke his hip and he broke his
arm and he was out of commissionfor a year.
I mean, he was in a hospitalbed for a year.
And then the third time he hadhad a heart condition and he had
a heart attack and that was aslow decline.
It took about two and a halfyears for him to die.
(05:25):
But in that time, you know andit was caregiving by my mother
my mother was also a lawyer andyou know she had a practice.
It's all the things that youknow I'm sure your other guests
have talked about is that onceyou're in caregiving it's up
close and personal.
(05:45):
Yeah, and other than you knowintimacy or death, you know
caregiving is about as intimateand personal as you're going to
get other than death andintimacy.
The point is that it involvespeople and you know I mean it
disrupted her life.
It's not that she didn't wantto do it, but it's hard work,
(06:12):
it's every day and thedifference between caregiving
and being a parent is that youknow you can pick them up or you
know you have.
You know you have legal control.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
They weigh 30 pounds, not 200 pounds.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, even if you're not even thinking about the
weight is that they're an adult,they have powers and they have
reasonabilities and they know,and you know, if they're not
feeling well, they can becurmudgeons.
I mean, they can be difficultpeople.
My father he was a good patient, especially with my mother.
They had a good marriage andthey had a good relationship
(06:52):
because they listened to eachother and they respected each
other.
And if he got a little bitornery, my mother had a good way
of putting him in his place.
I'll give you another.
She knew how to give himperspective.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Oh yeah, that's a good thing, that's a nice way.
Yeah, yeah, that I think yousaid something in there that I
thought was interesting, right,like you said, we know that
caregiving it's a very hands onintimate, all in can kind of
consume your life, and so why doyou think so many people delay
(07:29):
planning for caregiving and thenspecifically even like looking
into long term care options,when it is something that's so
kind of all-consuming once ithits you?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Let me just transition.
I'll sort of do a sort of aweave, but I will get to the
point of your question of youknow why don't people do it?
I'll give you the firstauthentic thing is who wants to,
who wants to buy insurance, andwhat's so exciting about buying
insurance or thinking about it?
What's so exciting aboutthinking about caregiving?
(08:03):
I mean, you know, if you say,yes, we're going to go on
vacation, yes, you know we'regoing to get you a, you know, a
really interesting car, you knowit's going to get you motivated
.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
But thinking about insurance and caregiving, yeah,
let's pay for insurance and hopewe might use it eventually,
kind of thing.
That's true.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That's right.
But you see and here's thedifference is that when people
think about insurance, theythink of it as sort of like a
fast food.
You look at the menu, you pickout what you want and you pay.
Or if you go to a restaurant,you're picking out of the menu.
(08:44):
You have an idea of what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah, you're like oh, I'm feeling like whatever, like
Italian, let's go to thisrestaurant, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, and you want the side, or you want the
dressing on the side.
You want onions in it.
Do you not want an onion in it?
You know you want sour creamand with long-term care benefits
.
This is another thing that ifyou're not aware or confused,
they'll go to where the last.
You know.
I mean a typical question.
I know, you know I do Sometimes.
(09:13):
It's you know what does it cost, you know what am I getting,
but it's not fast.
This is kind of benefit.
It's not fast food.
You know you really have to bepatient about it and you know
and this is where you know youknow people always talk about
you know, well, you knowinsurance salesmen are, you know
, being salesy or all.
(09:33):
It's really.
It's empathy, it's you know.
The first question I asked isyou know, why are we having this
conversation?
What is it that you want toaccomplish?
I don't say why do you want tobuy a long-term care benefit?
I mean, you know, sometimes Imight, depending on the
situation, but is, why are youeven thinking about it?
What is?
What is it that you think?
How?
(09:54):
How do you think that thismight help you?
I mean, you know you can ask alot of questions about it.
But I want to find out what'syour story about?
You know, caregiving Do youhave one, you know?
Is this something that concernsyou?
Have you had a parent or yourspouse, or have you been advised
to do it?
So you know, I want to beempathetic to find out.
Why do you want to do that?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I'm not going to give you statistics, I'm not going
to, you know, worry you or sayyou know, look, it's going to.
Yeah, scare tactics kind ofthing.
That's right, it's almost.
It's almost like long-term careand, I guess, insurance in
general.
But long-term care insurance,it's like I think of it's in
essence, you're buying yourselfsecurity in the long run.
Um, which is security is asintangible but also kind of like
air, like if the air is aroundus, we don't think about it
(10:43):
because it's available.
But as soon as you don't havesecurity, as soon as something-.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Or you don't have air , or you don't have air.
Yeah, You're like oh everythingis not okay.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
It's the same, I think, where you lose that
security aspect because you didn, because you didn't kind of you
didn't opt into long-term careinsurance, and then the air's
out of the room and you're like,holy crap, this is thousands
and thousands of dollars everymonth.
What I know, that's one big oneis the financial risk.
But what are some of thebiggest risks families face when
(11:13):
they, like, don't have along-term care?
Maybe policy, but also plan inplace.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, there are three things that I tell myself and I
tell people.
The first is where do you wantyour care?
Where do you want it?
Do you want it at home, andhave you organized your home?
You know, have you done homeimprovements, or you know what
have you done in your home orwhat do you need to do in your
home that you can stay in yourhome and it can be done?
(11:41):
And the second is who's goingto be responsible for your care?
Do you want professionalcaregivers to come in and do
certain things?
Do you want your family to befull or part-time, which I don't
recommend because there is aneconomic cost.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
there is an economic cost and not to, not to mention
the emotional, like I am a bigbeliever that wife should always
be wife, son should always beson, not wife and caregiver.
Son and care, like being ableto keep that relationship, minus
all of like the, the logisticsand like that come along with
kind of caregiving and the likein your privacy, kind of winning
(12:23):
.
So anyways, but I'll let youkeep going.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Right, but it depends on, you know, the relationship
with the family, what people arewilling to.
You know what responsibility,because it is, look, even if
it's it's, it's not family free,it's not friends free.
You know you're going to alwaysbe doing something, but the
(12:46):
thing is that, well, that's.
The third thing is how are yougoing to pay for it?
Because, as I was sayingearlier, I don't have caregiving
.
You know, I don't have a degreein caregiving and I don't, you
know.
I mean, I have an idea of itand I've done it.
But there's certain, sometimesmedical things.
(13:06):
Or you know, if you need totransfer somebody, do you have
the physical ability to do it?
And, depending on you know, ifyou're single or you have a
spouse or partner, you know theymay not be able to do that, or
there may be things that theyneed to take care of.
Or you know if somebody youknow is licensed as a nurse or
(13:29):
something you know that can giveyou injections.
I mean, the point is there aretimes that it makes sense to
hire a you know, a competent andskilled professional.
Well, you know a competent,skilled caregiver to do things
sometimes I don't want to do.
I just don't want to do it or Idon't know how to do it.
Yeah, I mean, it's the same asdo you want to clean your house?
(13:53):
Do you want to hirehousekeeping from time to time?
Cleaned your house, do you wantto hire you know housekeeping
from time to time?
Or do you want to, you know,spray wash the driveway?
Some people do it and they likeit.
Some people, you know, havethat skill and they're okay with
it.
But if it's something you needto do or you've got to do all
the time sometimes, I'd ratherit may not necessarily be less
(14:14):
expensive, but it certainly isgood for my mental health.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You have to have that mental to-do list of like oh my
gosh, I have to get around todoing this, that's right.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
That's right.
So those are the three thingswhen do you want your care,
who's going to be responsiblefor the care and where are the
funds going to be to do that?
And that's where you know sortof the.
You know people wait for, for,for, for.
For a lot of reasons not not.
(14:44):
The biggest is that it isn'tsomething that people you know
train, you know have the habitof thinking about.
When you get a car, you knowwhat do you?
What do you think about?
You think about, you know thecar, you think about payments
you think about and you thinkabout car insurance.
And you know, you know and, oryou want a home or a.
(15:05):
You know, you think you thinkabout that.
Or it'll say, yeah, you got tohave, you got to have the
insurance.
But the thing is, withcaregiving insurance, you know
what I something I came upon acouple months ago.
You know what caregivinginsurance is.
It's a warranty on you.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's a good way to say it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I mean a personal experience.
Our refrigerator motor went outand so you know a couple.
You know it took two visits oneto evaluate it, then order the
parts and today, you know today,he put a refrigerator and we
didn't have a warranty and I gotoff okay.
(15:55):
But the point is, humans aremechanical too and our
warranties expire or they needto be updated from time to time.
So I think long-term care, it'sa warranty that something is
going to happen.
You're either going to becomefrail, you're either going to
have an accident, you're goingto have an illness, or you have
a cognitive and cognitive is inmy world is sometimes when they
(16:22):
say well, you know, how longwill I need, what kind of plan
do I need and how long will Ineed it.
One of the things I'll ask themis you know, do you have
cognitive issues in your family?
Because you know you can last avery long time with a cognitive
issue.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Eventually you die because of heart issues or
things, but mental health— yeah,if you have even dementia and
things like that, you can bearound for a decade.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
That's right.
Like a long time, think ofReagan.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I mean, he lasted a long time.
Yeah, yeah, that's benefits.
There's one person that I canthink of, and this was years ago
, she.
I can't remember what she had,but basically she was wheelchair
bound for most of her life andanyway she turned 60 and she's,
like, I've been paying for theselong-term care.
I don't know what, I don't knowhow they work, or da da, da da.
So I would love to just whatare some misconceptions around
(17:35):
it that you've heard or maybeunknown, that people are afraid
of that you always have toovercome that.
We could just get out of theway for all the people that are
listening.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'll give you two words.
I forget.
Now let me explain what Iforget.
You know, I mean, I'm aconsumer too and I buy insurance
.
But what happens when, if thequestion is people that own long
term care benefits, they're notsure what it will do, sure what
(18:09):
it will do, it's because theyforget.
And the reason they forget isbecause you know it's not a
just-in-time benefit and it's awarranty for the future.
I mean again, in warranty youdon't say, gee, I hope you know
my appliance won't break down,but if it does, or my car, a lot
of other things, you havewarranties.
(18:31):
I mean, of course, that's whyyou know we own AAA, or you know
you own things or healthinsurance.
You know the reason you own itis not because you want to be
unhealthy, not because you wantto be ill, but when you do and
you will that you want to makesure that you're transferring
the risk to somebody else yeah,so that you can go.
(18:52):
You know somebody else so thatyou can go.
You know the illness itself ismiserable enough.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
But you don't want to have this massive bill, that's
right At the end of all.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
That's right.
I mean, how many do you know?
You take your car to the formaintenance and then you get a
call from a customer service.
Hi, Caleb, you know I want totalk to you about your car.
What's the first thing youthink about?
How much is it going to cost?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, how much maintenance is turned into a
$3,000 visit.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
That's right, that's right.
So that's what these plans do.
Is that?
It's not going to make, notgoing to solve, it's not going
to make somebody better, it'snot going to make somebody
healthier, but anyway, gettingback to the reason that people
forget is that if you get into acar accident, it's a car.
Your fender is bent or yourlights are broke.
(19:48):
Of course it's more difficultnow.
When I was young, you didn'thave all this electronic stuff.
Now you know the most expensive.
The reason car insurance ismuch higher is because cars
don't have the kind of bumpersand it's the electronics, I mean
it's the circuit boards and allthe sensors that they.
So that's what brings up thecost.
(20:12):
So with long-term care benefits,people forget that it's about
activities of daily living.
Now, you know I'm not going togive you this insurance language
, but activities of daily livingsimply mean it's not the
illness that you have, or theaccident or the illness.
It's what has it done to youthat you have mobility issues or
(20:38):
transferring issues, or youcan't drive or you can't
transition?
It's if that's what the illnesshas done, then you qualify.
Now the easy one, if you're ata certain point, is cognitive,
all you know.
If the doctor says, look, thisperson has, you know, call easy
one if you're at a certain pointis cognitive.
If the doctor says, look, thisperson has call it dementia,
(20:59):
call it whatever, alzheimer's,but you reach a point where you
need somebody to, you needcaregiving assistance.
Yeah, you need caregivingassistance.
So so you don't.
So that's the only one whereyou don't need two out of the
three.
If it's diagnosed you havecognitive and you're at that
that stage, then then you don't,you don't need anything else.
But that's what people forgetor they haven't been explained.
(21:23):
So the way I do it is I do asummary sheet.
You know, you don't even, youdon't even have to look at the
policy.
I mean, I'll have the policynumber, I'll have the phone
number, you know the insurancecompany, you know what this is,
I'll have the.
You know the claim forms.
It's actually a good idea everycouple of years.
You know, not only just withlong-term care.
(21:43):
You know your other insurance.
Just take a look at it.
Or you know if you have aninsurance agent now, it used to
be, you had insurance agents.
Now a lot of things are doneonline.
You can't do that so much withlong-term care.
But again, it's not a takeout ofa menu.
Yeah, Because they'reshort-term.
(22:04):
There's hybrid, there'straditional, there's
subscription.
There are a number of differentvariations of the same thing.
There are a number of differentvariations of the same thing.
So it depends on you know howlong you want to plan, you know
how much you want to cover inexpenses.
There's inflation benefits toit.
So, you know, maybe AI someday,you know you could say, look, I
(22:28):
want you know, here's my healthhistory.
And so you know, say yeah, youknow, here are three ideas.
Maybe AI will figure it outsomeday.
But in a way, actually it iseasy for me because there are
more software programs that Ihave access to that you know I
can do it quicker and faster.
(22:48):
Sometimes, you know I forget,so you know it's nice to be able
to look at it.
It quicker and faster.
Sometimes, you know I forget,so you know it's nice to be able
to look at it.
But the other thing is that itused to be for health assessment
.
This really annoyed people isthat they'd have to get doctor's
records and that sometimescould take two or three months
and that upset people.
And then you know if you wereto decline, that got them even
(23:09):
more upset.
Like what do you mean?
You know you're not going toinsure me.
Well, you know we didn't knowor had it in the doctor's record
, so we need to explain it.
But they become much moreefficient about that.
It's not perfect.
I mean you know everything I'mgoing to say it's not perfect,
but it's certainly.
You know people that complainabout warranty.
(23:30):
This is a good warranty product.
It really is.
If you have the right one,you've got to have.
You know, and the same with youknow, if you get homeowners
insurance but you don't get theright type of it, they'll say,
well, we didn't cover this.
Or you know you didn't get thisrider.
You know the insurance companyis not going to pay if it
doesn't fall within.
(23:50):
You know the parameters of whatof what you purchased.
But in most cases, if, if, if,if I have done what I always try
to do to you know, find outwhat is it that somebody, you
know what will solve yourcaregiving needs.
How will you pay for it?
And you have the plan.
(24:11):
Now again, some, you know, somepeople say, well, how long
should I have a plan?
You should have a two-year plan, should have a six-year plan,
should have a lifetime plan.
Of course, all you know, thelonger it goes, the more money.
You know it's pretty.
Then you know, then you're in amoney.
It's like you know, going.
Yeah, you know you want acorvette.
You know you pay 120 000.
Do you do?
You do you want a, a truck?
that has all the trimmings andthat's another 120,000.
(24:34):
Or you know, you know, maybeyou don't need, you know all
those trimmings, but do you,just you know, do you want to
lease a vehicle that will getyou from one place to another?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, exactly, that's a.
Really I love the analogy andkind of theme throughout the
whole thing of comparing it tolike an automobile warranty.
The time has flown on thisepisode but one.
A few last questions, but oneis what personal professional
goals are you working on that'smoving forward in this space?
Are there projects or likespecific things that you're
(25:10):
super excited about?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Well, I, just last year I published a book with
Chris Voss.
It's called Empathy andUnderstanding Business.
I'm also subscribing to, youknow, like longevity plans, and
also there's also a company thatI subscribe to where when I get
people's health assessmentinformation that it will help me
(25:33):
to figure out what plans orwhat their health situation,
what I can do for them and I cando it more efficiently.
Of course, the other big thingis that I've really been
involved with the Black SwanGroup in negotiating and in
negotiating.
It's made me a much moreinteresting person, a much more
(25:56):
you know of skills, where youknow I don't worry about
objections and I don't want it's.
You know it's asking people,you know it's again, it's
empathy.
Or you know somebody you knowis not you know wants to argue
with me.
I say, look, it seems like youknow this is what I'm doing.
It's just not your vision, it'sjust not what you're doing.
(26:18):
You know it's not what you want.
Oh, yeah, it is.
It is what it is.
Well, you know, I don't argue,I don't argue, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, so these are.
You know, it's Black Swan GroupMethods.
In fact, I'm going to ChrisVoss, who's the founder of Black
Swan Group.
He's going to interview me inSeptember, and so those are just
you know, and I'm doingpodcasts.
(26:48):
So these are things, you know,that I really like to do and I'm
enjoying it and it's making mesay hopefully, I think it's
making me a better person.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So if those are some, of the things that I'm that's
awesome is if you could leaveour listeners with just one
lasting message about whyplanning for caregiving and
getting long-term care insurance, why it matters not just like
financially, but for the peoplethat they love as well.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
What would you want them to remember in one or two
sentences.
Have the conversation, whetherit's with Raymond Levine or you
know, if you have, you know awealth advisor, or you have you
know somebody that you know is,you know is knowledgeable about
long-term care benefits, or youknow, selfishly, you know, have
the conversation, that's it.
Have the conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I love that.
I think that's great advice,raymond.
And then the last question iswho should reach out to Raymond
Levine?
How do they get a hold of youand things like that?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, you can contact me, Raymond Levine, on LinkedIn
.
You can go to my website,wwwlevine, l-a-v-i-n-e,
l-t-c-i-n-s dot com, and thoseare the two best places.
I mean.
You can also find me on thesearch engine.
Just put Raymond Levine and Ishould come up in the search
(28:23):
engines.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Sweet, sweet.
I've loved this conversation,raymond.
It's been insightful.
I think it's something thatmore people should talk about.
Just like how you don't thinkabout air until it's gone I
think it's you don't think aboutlong-term care and insurance
until you're in that situation.
You're like crap.
I should have started thinkingabout this 20 years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You know a quick story about that you talked
about.
You know, when I was in basictraining at Fort Bliss, texas,
there was one where you have agas mask day and you know they
are very specific.
One of the good learningexperience is that they will
(29:09):
make sure when they're teachingsomething, that you're going to
learn it and they're not kiddingaround.
And if you think that you know,oh, I'll just put this gas mask
on and I'll just do it any wayI want, what they do is they put
you, they put us in a, in a ina bunker, and they release the
gas and I'll get it.
(29:31):
You know it.
It stings you, you.
You never forget thatexperience.
But then you also learn how toyou know how to put it on your
gas.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
That's right.
That's awesome.
No, it's been a lot of it's.
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
I can't recommend you enoughfor people that are looking into
kind of long-term care and, and, yeah, follow you on LinkedIn
things.
But, yeah, thanks for spendingthis half hour with myself and
just being open and sharing yourinsights.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's been my pleasure .
I've I've be authentic.
I actually I had fun.
I'm having fun.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Good, good, good Sweet.
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