September 13, 2024 • 35 mins
Unlock the secrets to enriching senior living with Wing Pepper, the visionary CEO and co-founder of Perch Houses. In this episode, Wing reveals his inspiring transition from a digital marketing maven to a pioneer in co-living solutions for women over 55. Driven by his personal journey of caregiving during the COVID-19 pandemic, Wing shares how Perch Houses tackles critical issues like loneliness and affordability for seniors. You’ll learn about the unique challenges faced by older women and how Perch Houses provides them with much-needed community and support.
Explore the transformative benefits of co-living, as we delve into how Perch Houses fosters a sense of belonging while alleviating financial stress. Wing discusses the concept of social determinants of health, emphasizing the critical role of a supportive living environment on well-being. Hear compelling stories, such as Ann's, a resident who enjoys the independence of private living while benefiting from a network of senior resources thanks to Perch Houses. Wing also sheds light on the hurdles of adapting this innovative model within the American cultural context.
In the final segments, we look into the entrepreneurial roadmap of Perch Houses, focusing on strategic partnerships and the exciting development of a proprietary digital platform. Wing discusses the future vision of creating integrated communities that offer health, wellness, and social activities, making these spaces attractive to a broader demographic. Stay tuned till the end to find out how to connect with Wing and discover more about Perch Houses' mission to revolutionize senior living.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
What we have found, though, is that people who make
the move to live in a perchhouse are invested in it,
literally and figuratively.
They're invested in the ideatoo, and when people are
invested in the idea, theyreally lean into making things
work.
I'm saying this because we'vejust seen it happen a number of
times.
It's very heartwarming to seepeople who come from opposite
(00:30):
ends of the political spectrumdifferent sides of the religious
spectrum, different sides ofthe sexual preference spectrum
come together over moreimportant things and help each
other and support each other andfind common ground as people,
and we hoped that would happen,but it's been really interesting
to see that happen with peoplewho are 55 plus, who really want
(00:53):
to pay into the value ofbuilding relationships with
other people.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Welcome to the Senior Housing Investors Podcast.
If you are an owner operator,investor, developer or buyer of
senior housing, you've come tothe right place.
The best way to stay connectedwith us is to sign up for our
weekly newsletter athavenseniorinvestmentscom.
This podcast doesn't existwithout you, our community.
(01:26):
Thank you for listening andreach out to us anytime.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome back everyone .
Today, John Haber is speakingwith Wing Pepper, CEO and
co-founder of an organizationcalled Perch Houses, which is
modern co-living for women over55.
You don't want to miss this one, John.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Thanks, kelsey.
We are welcoming Wing to ourpodcast today and this is going
to be a lively discussion.
This is something new that I'veseen little tidbits of the idea
, but not exactly like yours,wing.
But before we get into that,let's get into your background.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and the companies
(02:14):
you've worked for, where youcome from and how you look at
life.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Sure, well, thanks for having me.
First of all, it's a pleasureto be here.
I started my life as a littlekid in Ohio and was uprooted
quickly to Washington DC where Igrew up and ended up spending a
lot of my life traveling aroundthe world professionally and
was in digital marketing when itfirst came to pass.
So I spent a lot of my careerin the transformation business
(02:42):
and transforming businesses fromanalog to digital.
And when I was about 50, whichwas about 13 years ago I got the
bug to be an entrepreneur alittle bit late we kind of call
ourselves elderpreneurs and so Istarted my first company at
that age, which was a companycalled True Botanicals, which is
a non-toxic, all-pure skincarecompany, and my partner ended up
(03:05):
building that company up.
And then I ran two innovationlabs in California where we
started new ventures, newcompanies for places like
Procter Gamble and Nike, and Igot the urge to do another
startup.
So I started with a friend,started a competitor to
Invisalign I don't know if youknow the dental liner company in
(03:26):
San Francisco, and we had ourown supply chain, our own
software, our own clinics, ourown doctors, and it was a
fabulous effort and a greatlearning experience.
And then this thing calledCOVID came along.
And right when COVID came alongand impacted our business, my
elderly mom back home inWashington DC was very ill not
just with COVID, with a numberof other ailments, and I decided
(03:48):
to change my life and come homeand be her primary caregiver.
And I still am today, fouryears later, and it was that
experience that led me to beginthe process of starting Perch
Houses.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, so you started perch houses because of your
mother and caretaking for yourmother.
What was the problem that youare trying to solve with perch
houses?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well, it's a bit of a process.
So for her there were threeproblems.
There was loneliness andisolation and safety.
Those things go hand in handwhen you're living alone in a
house.
There was affordability costhow was she going to take care
of herself?
How was she covered?
Did she understand Medicare orMedicare Advantage in her case?
And then there was how is sheinteracting with the outside
(04:35):
world, getting access toservices and getting in-home
care, but also just day-to-daythings like that, and I watched
her deal with it and I began tolook at there must be a bigger
problem here.
And as I researched it, thenumber that still sticks in my
head to this day, you know, twoyears later, is that only 8% of
Americans ever end up in anykind of assisted living, active
(04:56):
adult nursing home facility.
So the 92% of Americans whoaren't there have to figure out
some way to age in place.
And the same three issuesalways come up affordability
community so you're not lonelyand isolated and access to
services.
And we started to go down thatpath and that's what led us to
start the company.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So my mother is very active.
I mean I'd go out to visit herand she says what am I going to
do with you, john?
I've got this plan, this plan,this plan.
She's 82 years old.
So the question I have for youis of that 92% that are aging in
place, what percentage of thoseare inactive and lonely?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, it's a great question, Depending on who you
speak to.
Well, there's two ways toanswer that.
One is that Medicare estimatesthat it costs them about $7
billion a year dealing withloneliness, isolation, the trips
to the hospital that resultfrom being at home alone, and
all that the social implication.
(06:01):
And when you're 55, just togive you some numbers, when
you're 55, you spend about onaverage now, about 6.5 hours a
day if you're a solo ager.
Let me clarify if you'reaindependent, single person, you
spend about 6.5 hours a dayalone, and when you're 80, it's
up to eight hours a day alone,and so the impact of that
(06:22):
isolation, and, oddly enough,the Internet has made that worse
, not better, because you're nothaving human contact or digital
contact.
So what we started to do, though, is look at All right.
So when does aging start?
And we decided to pick age 55,and we picked age 55 for an
important reason it's when you,your body, starts to change, for
(06:44):
both men and women.
For an important reason it'swhen your body starts to change,
for both men and women, it'swhen your earning power starts
to tap out.
For most of us, you're notearning as much as you did
before, and you tend to be onmore of a flat trajectory.
You're still on private healthcare, so you're paying for your
health care or someone who'spaying for your health care, and
that right.
There is an important phase 55to 65, because you're trying to
(07:06):
preserve capital as you leadinto your 60s, and when you get
to age 65, you're covered byMedicare.
Medicare only covers so much,so we began to look at that
continuum of 55 to 75 as a wayto help people age in place,
help them preserve capital, helpthem not be lonely and isolated
and connect them more with thecommunity, and then try to
(07:28):
tailor services for them aroundthat age.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
So let's go into real quick what is Perch Houses, and
if we can get into your modelreal quick, we can dig deep into
some more questions.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Sure.
So Perch H houses is a new typeof housing concept that takes
existing single family homes andrepurposes them for 55 plus
people to share.
So we take an existing homethat you might know in suburbia,
we do some work to it and weput two to three people in that
house so they can share thecosts and you can live in a
(08:01):
really nice house for $1,300 to$1,800 a month.
But then you're also not lonelyand isolated.
You have the community.
You have people in there tohelp you if something goes wrong
or if you want to go away, andsomeone can look out for the
house.
And then we attend services,append services to the house
that are both lifestyle servicesand health services.
So for people who are middleincome, who are price pressured
(08:24):
and they want, as we call it, away to stay near a major metro,
it's a great way for them tolive in a great house but at an
affordable rate.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I'm sure you've done some studies or focus groups and
such and brought peopletogether.
Do people really like this?
Do the women really like thisconcept, and what kind of
feedback are you getting frompotential users and your current
users?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
The feedback we're getting is very positive, once
they experience it.
I will say this is much morecommon in Europe than it is in
America.
America is much moreindependent.
We tend to not share as muchculturally.
You know, if you look inAmerica today, immigrant
families tend to have much moremulti-generational living than
(09:11):
you know.
It's a cultural thing.
So there is a bit of a hurdleand there's also, frankly, a bit
of a hurdle with.
You know, I'm moving in toshare a house.
I don't have my own house.
Is that a bad thing?
Is that, you know, have I notachieved enough?
But what we find is that whenyou're living, when you're
paying less for rent and you'reless stressed financially, but
(09:32):
you're also surrounded by otherpeople, it's actually a fairly
joyful experience and we've hada 100% lease renewal so far.
But it's a new way of living,to be sure, john.
It's a different way to thinkabout ownership, it's a
different way to think aboutsharing, it's a different way to
(09:54):
think about possessions andit's a different way to think
about, like, how you spend yourmoney and what your priorities
are in life, and that's.
We see that as a big culturalchange coming, and so hopefully,
we're at the tip of the sphere.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So why did you focus on women's 65 plus renters to
start?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
We actually focus on 55 plus 55 to 65.
And the reason it's funny westarted at 65 and we got a lot
of feedback from women to godown to 55 because of the cost
pressures when you're 55 to 65,primarily driven by private
health insurance, and so thereare real financial pressures
there and then easing into the65 age as well.
(10:38):
We picked women because womenare more willing and more
adapted at co-living than men.
I say this as a guy.
Guys are interested in the idea, but women tend to build
community different than men andwomen gravitate as groups
(10:58):
differently than men do.
And so we thought we have tostart somewhere and we got a lot
of positive feedback from women.
So we started there.
So we thought we have to startsomewhere and we got a lot of
positive feedback from women, sowe started there.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
That's awesome.
So I'm curious how do you workwith or integrate or align with
active adult and independentliving communities?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It's very important to our business.
You know, obviously 55 and upis a wide age range.
55 and up is a wide age range.
But what we find is that in anycommunity there are active
adult communities, assistedliving communities, obviously
memory care and things like thatas you get older.
But there are also seniorcenters and community centers
and other community-likeorganizations, and we integrate
(11:39):
with all of them for two reasons.
One, it's a great way to buildcommunity, and one of our jobs
as concierge for our renters isto introduce them to local
organizations that they probablydon't know about, frankly.
So it's not just services, it'sall these organizations.
But the other reason is, youknow, back to the 8 percent of
people who can be in theseplaces, they have to turn away
(12:02):
so many people who can't affordthe exorbitant costs, and so
what we provide is kind of aplace for them to reside at
lower costs but still takeadvantage of those services.
And so the symbioticrelationship between the senior
community and our renters isreally mutually beneficial.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
What does that look like?
So give us an example of thatintegration or that partnership
that you have.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Sure.
So let's take a renter, so Ann,who's a renter for us, and Ann's
a fantastic member of ourcommunity, and so Ann has rent
for about $1,600 a month.
She is in the local school boardand she's very active in the
community, but what she alsowants is access to services that
(12:49):
come from senior resourcecenters, but she doesn't want to
live there, and what the seniorresource center is very excited
about is broadening theircustomer base to people outside
the fixed walls of theirlocation fixed walls of their
location and so what Ann's ableto do is not just integrate with
senior services in the areathat we connect her to, but we
(13:10):
also connect her to financialplanning, health and wellness
resources and nutritionresources, and so that's the
role we play.
Our special sauce is our kind ofconcierge, connecting our
renters to what they need, butthe integration with the senior
resources is really important,and the other reason it's really
important is that nobody staysthe same age, and so as people
(13:32):
age and as their needs changeand as their physical abilities
change which they do, for all ofus it's so helpful and
reassuring to have theserelationships with outpatient
locations who can providein-home care and things like
that for our renters.
So it's really fundamental tobeing part of the community and
(13:53):
the way we look at it is thatwe're part of the senior
community.
We just happen to bedistributed, not in a physical
place.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Yeah, that's a great answer.
So what is that link betweenhousing and health?
As you know, those that areaging above 55 tend to be, these
days, higher acuity.
We're talking about obesityrates being above 60%, and so
what is that link betweenhousing and health?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
We're big believers in things called social
determinants of health, andsocial determinants of health
are five primary metrics andthey measure our environment
that we live in, our financialwell-being, the physical
environment we live in, ouraccess to transportation, all of
these things.
And if you think about it,there's your body health but
then there's the impact of yourhealth on all the things that
(14:39):
are around us every day in ourlives health but then there's
the impact of your health on allthe things that are around us
every day in our lives.
And one of the primary driversof your social determinants of
health is where you live andyour living environment.
And that's what led us to thebelief that the home is a
platform for healthy living.
So if you're not stressedfinancially, that's a huge
(15:00):
impact on your health, yourmental health, how you kind of
go through life every day.
If you're not lonely and you'resurrounded by some other people
who are both there from ahelpful standpoint, but also
from a fun standpoint the socialstandpoint you're activated,
your brain's moving, you'reenjoying life, you're stimulated
by the presence of other people, and if you're not worried
(15:21):
about where you can find whatyou need, you don't have to be
overwhelmed by the idea ofsearching for it and you can
come to your house.
That's a huge benefit to youfrom a health standpoint.
So we see those as primarydrivers of health and we think
it all starts with the house.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Unless one of your roommates is eating your food,
then you're going to be stressedout.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Which we, of course, have had.
That and a few other things.
It's funny that you bring thatup.
You know, one of the questionswe get asked a lot is what
happens if something goes wrong,and what happens if people
don't get along and you'reputting people together who
don't know each other.
All of that is true.
What we have found, though, isthat people who make the move to
live in a perch house areinvested in it, literally and
(16:06):
figuratively.
They're invested in the ideatoo, and when people are
invested in the idea, theyreally lean into making things
work.
I'm saying this because we'vejust seen it happen a number of
times.
It's very heartwarming to seepeople who come from opposite
ends of the political spectrumdifferent sides of the religious
spectrum, different sides ofthe sexual preference spectrum
(16:28):
come together over moreimportant things and help each
other and support each other andfind common ground as people,
and we hoped that would happen,but it's been really interesting
to see that happen with peoplewho are 55 plus who really want
to pay into the value ofbuilding relationships with
other people yeah, that's uh,you know I can see why.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Uh, you really focus on women because women really
it's innate in them to have thatconnectedness and wanting to be
part of community then we kindof want to be alone, leave us
alone, let us be independent anddon't touch my stuff, and so
you know, really great, greatmodel there for you.
(17:11):
So what makes the Perch Houseexperience unique?
Okay, we talked about eatingeach other's food.
What's unique about it?
Over anything else, that'sdealing with, you know, renting
your house to room to a friendor renting a room.
We see these models out there.
What's unique about Perch?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
There are a lot of models out there.
There's three things thatreally are important to us.
One is you mentioned peoplerenting a room in a house and
things like that mentionedpeople renting a room in a house
and things like that.
The premise of our houses isthat there's no hierarchy,
there's no owner, so we controlthe house, so our renters.
There's no pecking order interms of who owns the house and
(17:55):
who's a renter in the house, andthat's really important to
creating co-living environments.
The other one is that we act.
We call ourselves new ageproperty managers, but we're not
property managers, we're peoplemanagers, and so if you move
into a perch house, you don'thave a landlord.
You have somebody that is notonly dealing with your house but
(18:15):
helping you navigate aspects ofyour life, and every renter
we've had has said the samething to us.
They say it's never occurred tous that a landlord would play
these roles.
But if you think about how manybusinesses have transformed and
industries have transformed inthe last 20, 30 years, who are
doing things that they didn'tused to do before or have
(18:36):
disintermediated otherbusinesses that thought they did
something, we see thisintersection of service and
housing as being like the nextwave of what the landlord
experience should be like.
And I think the third thing isour location.
So we really try to keep ourhouses near major metropolitan
(18:57):
areas and that's why we say it'sa way to stay, because what we
listen to our renters say iswhere they want to live.
So we do a lot of outreach topeople, to our database and to
our in-reach, and one of thefirst questions we ask people is
, for example, if you were inGeorgia, where in Atlanta would
you like to live?
And they'll name a place.
Then we'll go get a house forthem.
So instead of working the otherway around, where you're just
(19:20):
kind of take what's out there,we try to find a place where the
demand is, which is obviouslygood for us, but that's where
people want to be, near theirfamily, friends and their work.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
When it comes to the floor plan of these houses.
What are your renters askingfor?
What are they looking for whenit comes to living environment?
Is it main level living?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
It's a great question and I will be honest, we are
learning as we go, and I thinkone of our biggest learnings
going forward is that ourcriteria for houses is evolving.
But in general, what peoplewant the base thing is private
bathroom.
So everyone needs a privatebedroom and a private bathroom.
Ideally, they have somealternative private space as
(20:02):
well.
That can be for a kitchenette,that can be for a little office
or something like that.
So we look for ways of creatingsuites in houses, and that's a
very important dynamic, becausewe don't look at this as
roommates.
We look at this as peoplesharing a house and therefore
you have private space almostlike a mini apartment.
(20:23):
So our criteria for houses isstrict and we never put more
than two to three people in ahouse, and so the houses have to
fit that.
And what we're evolving to togive you a little indication of
where we're going is morepurpose-built houses for this
purpose, almost like apartmentswithin houses, and we see that
as the future.
(20:44):
We think that houses that arebuilt with what we call
universal design, which isdesigned for anybody of any
ability, of any age, they aremore valuable in the real estate
market in general and theyserve our needs better.
So, as we look ahead, a perchhouse is about location, it's
about layout, and then it's alsoabout service.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
What comes up in my mind are two things.
Number one we saw in theresidential marketplace builders
were building homes but theywere doing, you know, not
attaching but there was an extradoor that went out or went into
another apartment for amother-in-law suite.
Okay, now, as you know, we havea huge change in demographics
(21:27):
going on in this country, andwhat we're finding is that more
and more of the differentnationalities tend to have a
culture that they take care ofmom in-house, so instead of
going into a rental opportunity,they bring them into their own
home.
Do you see anything that isgoing to affect your model when
(21:50):
it comes to demographics in thiscountry and the change?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well, we could have 10 companies doing what we're
all doing and we still wouldn'tscratch the surface of the need,
of the need.
So the idea of homes that arepurpose-built within Los Suits,
like you said, that's justfantastic for families that want
to do that.
Some families can't do that andsome people don't have families,
and some people have familiesthat live far away, and so our
(22:23):
focus is solo agers, and sothat's really our target and
we've tailored our businessaround the needs of solo agers,
and they may have family nearbyor the family may not be able to
have them live there or, youknow, they may just be single,
divorced women whose kids aregrown and moved away, and there
are a lot of people out therewho fit that demographic, and
what we want to do is providepeople who are still independent
(22:44):
living a way to not feelburdened by buying a house or
living with another family,although those are wonderful
options, and we just felt thatour target was going to be
solving for the solo market andwhat their needs were.
But I have to say, the number ofmodels out there as you
mentioned before about housesharing which are both elders
(23:07):
sharing with elders or elderssharing with younger people or
families sharing with in-laws.
They're all fantastic models.
It's funny the barrier to someof these are some of the single
family homes that have beenbuilt, which are built with a
single-minded nuclear, you know,a primary bedroom with a huge
(23:28):
bathroom and then three tinylittle rooms and a bathroom that
everyone shares.
And that's not really howpeople live.
Now.
You see in more houses, moreand more construction, more
thoughtful design.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Well, we talked about this offline and that is.
My son is a sophomore at UNC,chapel Hill.
Yeah, first year to go intostudent housing and guess what?
Four suites in the apartment,four suites, four bedrooms, four
baths, with the center area forthe kitchen and hangout area,
and he never sees his roommatesvery often, you know.
(24:00):
But that's that's that modelthat you're talking about, in
terms of if you were to developor partner with a developer
builder to build those foursuite within a main level home
would be fantastic if you canget the lots to enable that to
do it.
These homes have yards and theyhave trees and they have
(24:23):
gardens and such.
What do you bring to the tableto help the renters take care of
the homes and take care of thelandscaping?
Or even providers that come in,like home health aides or
medical doctors or whatever itmay be?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
We break it down into three groups, and so the first
group is what we call homeservices, and so we cover the
landscaping costs for the houseand our renters don't have to
worry about it.
We offer our renters maidservice if they want.
Some want it, believe it or not, some want to do it themselves,
so we offer that as an opt-in.
But we also provide Wi-Fi,security service and renter's
(25:02):
insurance, all bucketed into therent payment, so you've got one
price.
But those are what we callhouse services.
And then we have what arecalled lifestyle services, which
are connecting you to the localcommunity center, connecting
you with health and wellnessresources nearby, whether it's
yoga classes or just fitnessinstructors or fitness classes
(25:25):
and also nutritional advice.
And what we offer every renterwhen they move in is one free
hour of life coaching with thesefantastic women life coaches.
And so what they do is speak toour renters and create a
personal profile for them ofwhat their needs are, because
everyone's needs are differentand what do they want to do to
(25:46):
take care of themselves and whathelps them look forward and
think about life positively.
And then our renters take thatand we can connect them to the
resources that they think aremost valuable to them.
So we provide the connection tothe life coach and then we also
connect them with our suite ofquote unquote service suppliers
that we have that are all local,that we source.
(26:08):
The last area is what I wasalluding to earlier with our
more serious health services,and that's a tricky thing
because if someone really needsmedical attention, obviously we
want them to get that.
But there are many things froma health standpoint and I'll
give you an example that can bedone by connecting you to mental
(26:29):
health coaches, to homecaregivers.
And one of the other serviceswe provide is understanding
Medicare and, by extension,medicare Advantage.
Medicare is something we allget when we're 65.
And when you're 62 to 63, youstart thinking about it because
it's a big change coming up andeven people who understand
(26:51):
Medicare struggle to understandMedicare, and so what we do is
we provide a service that takes,obviously, the patient's
acknowledgement.
We take patient data and helpthem understand how to use
Medicaid to their advantage.
Again, it's an opt-in service,but that's an example of the
service levels.
It's home services, it'slifestyle services and then,
(27:12):
depending on your preference andhow we can help, it's more
health services that are focusedon you.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
That's fantastic.
I think that concierge servicesthere's a friend or
acquaintance of mine actually iscreating a healthcare company
that actually brings that highlevel of concierge services.
For example, many people don'tsee their medical doctor but
once every six months or a year.
Well, this service does thatonce a month.
(27:41):
We're going to be in your houseonce a month to see how it's
doing so.
It's a real values-based caremodel that can be incorporated
into your model, along withassisted living, independent
living communities and such.
So, as you know, this is a hugemarket that is just exploding,
(28:01):
and so where do you see marketexpansion happening for Perch
Homes?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
We see two types of expansion, but I think the first
, I will say before we are goingto expand dramatically it's
really refining our model.
Getting 200 people utilizingour service to its maximum
potential is far more importantto us than 5,000 people just
(28:28):
subscribing to something,because we think this is a very
long-term play and this idea ofa service connected to real
estate for distributed seniorliving has got a lot of moving
parts to it.
So we're right now in theAtlanta market.
We have our test houses in theWashington DC market.
So we're right now in theAtlanta market, we have our test
houses in the Washington DCmarket, but we're expanding in
the Atlanta market and we seeplaces like Tampa, st Petersburg
(28:51):
, fort Myers, that zone, dallas,denver, nashville, charlotte,
obviously Phoenix, being reallyattractive markets for us.
There's also the opportunity toexpand to secondary markets
Spokane, washington, for example, topeka, kansas and your first
question is going to be whythere?
(29:12):
And the reason is that seniorservices, the way we were
talking about them before, arenot equally distributed around
the United States and there areareas of need where senior
living, independent living,active adult, all of these
things still have not gotten to,and so the idea that we might
(29:32):
be able to do that from adistributed standpoint in some
of these other markets versus atraditional model and serve more
people is an intriguing option.
I think we have to.
You know, like I said, I wantto refine our original model
first.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
You're a good entrepreneur.
Right Focus on taking care ofwhat you built instead of going
out and trying to grow big.
So are there any newdevelopments you can share today
as it relates to the companyand its model?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well, I think what we're most excited about is
announcing some partnerships onthe service side in the near
future and really building outthat model.
That adds more dimensions to it.
One of the things as a smallbusiness you are very careful
about how you spend your moneywhen you're building a company.
So you have big ideas and youhave to execute day day.
(30:26):
And that's the dilemma of anentrepreneur Think big, act
small.
And one of the trade-offstypically one makes in that
process is you don't spend a tonof money building out a big
digital platform.
But now we've learned enough toknow what we want that platform
to be and we're excited to bebuilding out a proprietary
(30:46):
service platform in the next sixmonths eight months.
That, we think, is going to bekind of a game changer for this
model.
The second thing that we're veryexcited about is partnering
with the right Build to Rentpartners.
We've worked with a lot ofpeople in the real estate
industry, but what we're excitedabout Build to Rent is the
willingness to look atindividual houses as assets that
(31:10):
can be nurtured over time togenerate return and can be
purpose built for specific needsearlier.
The option of building a housewith universal design has great
value just inherently in and ofitself, but it also serves
multiple purposes and there'svery little work that would have
(31:31):
to be done to retrofit thathouse if you wanted to return it
to, for example, a singlefamily to live in.
So between working with theright real estate partners and
the right kind of housing designand then also building out our
software platform, we see thoseas two big things going forward.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
That's fantastic.
That's a roadmap for a startupcompany, entrepreneurial company
.
But one of the biggest thingsabout an entrepreneurial company
small business is the abilityto bring others in to help you
along in the process of growth.
So, wing, tell us a little bitabout what is it going to take
(32:08):
for you to go to the next leveland how can our members of our
audience help you with thatprocess, if they choose to do so
.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Absolutely the things that are going to get us to the
next level.
We're a little bit differentthan a business just looking for
venture investment.
We're looking for a partner toactually help us build the
company.
And when I say a partner, apartner from the health world, a
partner from the build to rentreal estate world, a partner
from the senior living world whounderstands that we're building
(32:39):
a next generation of service.
That kind of partner is hard tofind, but that's what we're
looking for.
Specifically, I think whatwe're looking for is the ability
to lock in with a certain kindof real estate partner and a
certain kind of build option,which is very, very important to
(33:00):
you.
Asked earlier what is a perchhouse.
That's a big step in our way ofdefining what a perch house is,
and the more we think aboutthis, the more that either
purpose-built houses orretrofitted houses with some
changes really change the game.
When you see a woman walk intoa house today, that's a suburban
(33:21):
house and she looks at it andshe says, well, that bedroom's
great.
I don't really like thatbedroom.
What we want is people to walkinto a house and go.
I could live in any of theseplaces because this is really
beautiful set up for two tothree people, and so we're
looking for a real estatepartner that wants to help us do
that.
And then the last thing we'relooking for is a health partner
(33:43):
to help us really, really buildout our health services platform
.
And we've got.
We all come from the healthcareindustry, so we're excited
about that.
But we aim to define our modeland then start to scale rapidly
into next year.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
We spoke offline and I mentioned what a great model
you have to go into, kind of thevillage concept I always talk
about.
Right here you have your, youknow, independent cottages, but
then your shared houses, all ina community.
That brings health and wellnessto that community, along with
(34:18):
caregivers on site andindependent living and assisted
living and memory care.
I think caregivers on site andindependent living and assisted
living and memory care, I thinkyou know, I think getting spread
out is great today, but in thefuture, being able to go into a
large development with thisconcept would be a great step
for you.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
We agree, and the thing in the past that's made
that a barrier for some peopleis that those are single family
dwellings or single persondwellings, so the cost is
prohibitive.
But if you can take thatapproach and share the cost,
you're opening this up to somany Americans who need this and
they're just dying forcompanionship and connectivity
(34:57):
and social activities, and so wesee that as the big opportunity
.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Awesome Wing.
How do individuals reach out toyou, how do they connect with
you and what is your website?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yep, we're perchhousescom and it's wing
W-I-N-G at perchhousescom.
We look forward to speaking toanyone who's interested in
hearing more.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Well, our audience appreciates you coming on and
giving them more ideas regardingthis big influx of older adults
coming into the marketplace anda fantastic model that you have
, thank you.
Thank you so much for being onour show and best of luck to you
, wayne.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Thanks, john, really appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
You're welcome.
What we have found, though, is that people who make
the move to live in a perchhouse are invested in it,
literally and figuratively.
They're invested in the ideatoo, and when people are
invested in the idea, theyreally lean into making things
work.
I'm saying this because we'vejust seen it happen a number of
times.
It's very heartwarming to seepeople who come from opposite
(00:30):
ends of the political spectrumdifferent sides of the religious
spectrum, different sides ofthe sexual preference spectrum
come together over moreimportant things and help each
other and support each other andfind common ground as people,
and we hoped that would happen,but it's been really interesting
to see that happen with peoplewho are 55 plus, who really want
(00:53):
to pay into the value ofbuilding relationships with
other people.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Welcome to the Senior Housing Investors Podcast.
If you are an owner operator,investor, developer or buyer of
senior housing, you've come tothe right place.
The best way to stay connectedwith us is to sign up for our
weekly newsletter athavenseniorinvestmentscom.
This podcast doesn't existwithout you, our community.
(01:26):
Thank you for listening andreach out to us anytime.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome back everyone .
Today, John Haber is speakingwith Wing Pepper, CEO and
co-founder of an organizationcalled Perch Houses, which is
modern co-living for women over55.
You don't want to miss this one, John.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Thanks, kelsey.
We are welcoming Wing to ourpodcast today and this is going
to be a lively discussion.
This is something new that I'veseen little tidbits of the idea
, but not exactly like yours,wing.
But before we get into that,let's get into your background.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and the companies
(02:14):
you've worked for, where youcome from and how you look at
life.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Sure, well, thanks for having me.
First of all, it's a pleasureto be here.
I started my life as a littlekid in Ohio and was uprooted
quickly to Washington DC where Igrew up and ended up spending a
lot of my life traveling aroundthe world professionally and
was in digital marketing when itfirst came to pass.
So I spent a lot of my careerin the transformation business
(02:42):
and transforming businesses fromanalog to digital.
And when I was about 50, whichwas about 13 years ago I got the
bug to be an entrepreneur alittle bit late we kind of call
ourselves elderpreneurs and so Istarted my first company at
that age, which was a companycalled True Botanicals, which is
a non-toxic, all-pure skincarecompany, and my partner ended up
(03:05):
building that company up.
And then I ran two innovationlabs in California where we
started new ventures, newcompanies for places like
Procter Gamble and Nike, and Igot the urge to do another
startup.
So I started with a friend,started a competitor to
Invisalign I don't know if youknow the dental liner company in
(03:26):
San Francisco, and we had ourown supply chain, our own
software, our own clinics, ourown doctors, and it was a
fabulous effort and a greatlearning experience.
And then this thing calledCOVID came along.
And right when COVID came alongand impacted our business, my
elderly mom back home inWashington DC was very ill not
just with COVID, with a numberof other ailments, and I decided
(03:48):
to change my life and come homeand be her primary caregiver.
And I still am today, fouryears later, and it was that
experience that led me to beginthe process of starting Perch
Houses.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, so you started perch houses because of your
mother and caretaking for yourmother.
What was the problem that youare trying to solve with perch
houses?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well, it's a bit of a process.
So for her there were threeproblems.
There was loneliness andisolation and safety.
Those things go hand in handwhen you're living alone in a
house.
There was affordability costhow was she going to take care
of herself?
How was she covered?
Did she understand Medicare orMedicare Advantage in her case?
And then there was how is sheinteracting with the outside
(04:35):
world, getting access toservices and getting in-home
care, but also just day-to-daythings like that, and I watched
her deal with it and I began tolook at there must be a bigger
problem here.
And as I researched it, thenumber that still sticks in my
head to this day, you know, twoyears later, is that only 8% of
Americans ever end up in anykind of assisted living, active
(04:56):
adult nursing home facility.
So the 92% of Americans whoaren't there have to figure out
some way to age in place.
And the same three issuesalways come up affordability
community so you're not lonelyand isolated and access to
services.
And we started to go down thatpath and that's what led us to
start the company.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So my mother is very active.
I mean I'd go out to visit herand she says what am I going to
do with you, john?
I've got this plan, this plan,this plan.
She's 82 years old.
So the question I have for youis of that 92% that are aging in
place, what percentage of thoseare inactive and lonely?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, it's a great question, Depending on who you
speak to.
Well, there's two ways toanswer that.
One is that Medicare estimatesthat it costs them about $7
billion a year dealing withloneliness, isolation, the trips
to the hospital that resultfrom being at home alone, and
all that the social implication.
(06:01):
And when you're 55, just togive you some numbers, when
you're 55, you spend about onaverage now, about 6.5 hours a
day if you're a solo ager.
Let me clarify if you'reaindependent, single person, you
spend about 6.5 hours a dayalone, and when you're 80, it's
up to eight hours a day alone,and so the impact of that
(06:22):
isolation, and, oddly enough,the Internet has made that worse
, not better, because you're nothaving human contact or digital
contact.
So what we started to do, though, is look at All right.
So when does aging start?
And we decided to pick age 55,and we picked age 55 for an
important reason it's when you,your body, starts to change, for
(06:44):
both men and women.
For an important reason it'swhen your body starts to change,
for both men and women, it'swhen your earning power starts
to tap out.
For most of us, you're notearning as much as you did
before, and you tend to be onmore of a flat trajectory.
You're still on private healthcare, so you're paying for your
health care or someone who'spaying for your health care, and
that right.
There is an important phase 55to 65, because you're trying to
(07:06):
preserve capital as you leadinto your 60s, and when you get
to age 65, you're covered byMedicare.
Medicare only covers so much,so we began to look at that
continuum of 55 to 75 as a wayto help people age in place,
help them preserve capital, helpthem not be lonely and isolated
and connect them more with thecommunity, and then try to
(07:28):
tailor services for them aroundthat age.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
So let's go into real quick what is Perch Houses, and
if we can get into your modelreal quick, we can dig deep into
some more questions.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Sure.
So Perch H houses is a new typeof housing concept that takes
existing single family homes andrepurposes them for 55 plus
people to share.
So we take an existing homethat you might know in suburbia,
we do some work to it and weput two to three people in that
house so they can share thecosts and you can live in a
(08:01):
really nice house for $1,300 to$1,800 a month.
But then you're also not lonelyand isolated.
You have the community.
You have people in there tohelp you if something goes wrong
or if you want to go away, andsomeone can look out for the
house.
And then we attend services,append services to the house
that are both lifestyle servicesand health services.
So for people who are middleincome, who are price pressured
(08:24):
and they want, as we call it, away to stay near a major metro,
it's a great way for them tolive in a great house but at an
affordable rate.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I'm sure you've done some studies or focus groups and
such and brought peopletogether.
Do people really like this?
Do the women really like thisconcept, and what kind of
feedback are you getting frompotential users and your current
users?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
The feedback we're getting is very positive, once
they experience it.
I will say this is much morecommon in Europe than it is in
America.
America is much moreindependent.
We tend to not share as muchculturally.
You know, if you look inAmerica today, immigrant
families tend to have much moremulti-generational living than
(09:11):
you know.
It's a cultural thing.
So there is a bit of a hurdleand there's also, frankly, a bit
of a hurdle with.
You know, I'm moving in toshare a house.
I don't have my own house.
Is that a bad thing?
Is that, you know, have I notachieved enough?
But what we find is that whenyou're living, when you're
paying less for rent and you'reless stressed financially, but
(09:32):
you're also surrounded by otherpeople, it's actually a fairly
joyful experience and we've hada 100% lease renewal so far.
But it's a new way of living,to be sure, john.
It's a different way to thinkabout ownership, it's a
different way to think aboutsharing, it's a different way to
(09:54):
think about possessions andit's a different way to think
about, like, how you spend yourmoney and what your priorities
are in life, and that's.
We see that as a big culturalchange coming, and so hopefully,
we're at the tip of the sphere.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So why did you focus on women's 65 plus renters to
start?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
We actually focus on 55 plus 55 to 65.
And the reason it's funny westarted at 65 and we got a lot
of feedback from women to godown to 55 because of the cost
pressures when you're 55 to 65,primarily driven by private
health insurance, and so thereare real financial pressures
there and then easing into the65 age as well.
(10:38):
We picked women because womenare more willing and more
adapted at co-living than men.
I say this as a guy.
Guys are interested in the idea, but women tend to build
community different than men andwomen gravitate as groups
(10:58):
differently than men do.
And so we thought we have tostart somewhere and we got a lot
of positive feedback from women.
So we started there.
So we thought we have to startsomewhere and we got a lot of
positive feedback from women, sowe started there.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
That's awesome.
So I'm curious how do you workwith or integrate or align with
active adult and independentliving communities?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It's very important to our business.
You know, obviously 55 and upis a wide age range.
55 and up is a wide age range.
But what we find is that in anycommunity there are active
adult communities, assistedliving communities, obviously
memory care and things like thatas you get older.
But there are also seniorcenters and community centers
and other community-likeorganizations, and we integrate
(11:39):
with all of them for two reasons.
One, it's a great way to buildcommunity, and one of our jobs
as concierge for our renters isto introduce them to local
organizations that they probablydon't know about, frankly.
So it's not just services, it'sall these organizations.
But the other reason is, youknow, back to the 8 percent of
people who can be in theseplaces, they have to turn away
(12:02):
so many people who can't affordthe exorbitant costs, and so
what we provide is kind of aplace for them to reside at
lower costs but still takeadvantage of those services.
And so the symbioticrelationship between the senior
community and our renters isreally mutually beneficial.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
What does that look like?
So give us an example of thatintegration or that partnership
that you have.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Sure.
So let's take a renter, so Ann,who's a renter for us, and Ann's
a fantastic member of ourcommunity, and so Ann has rent
for about $1,600 a month.
She is in the local school boardand she's very active in the
community, but what she alsowants is access to services that
(12:49):
come from senior resourcecenters, but she doesn't want to
live there, and what the seniorresource center is very excited
about is broadening theircustomer base to people outside
the fixed walls of theirlocation fixed walls of their
location and so what Ann's ableto do is not just integrate with
senior services in the areathat we connect her to, but we
(13:10):
also connect her to financialplanning, health and wellness
resources and nutritionresources, and so that's the
role we play.
Our special sauce is our kind ofconcierge, connecting our
renters to what they need, butthe integration with the senior
resources is really important,and the other reason it's really
important is that nobody staysthe same age, and so as people
(13:32):
age and as their needs changeand as their physical abilities
change which they do, for all ofus it's so helpful and
reassuring to have theserelationships with outpatient
locations who can providein-home care and things like
that for our renters.
So it's really fundamental tobeing part of the community and
(13:53):
the way we look at it is thatwe're part of the senior
community.
We just happen to bedistributed, not in a physical
place.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Yeah, that's a great answer.
So what is that link betweenhousing and health?
As you know, those that areaging above 55 tend to be, these
days, higher acuity.
We're talking about obesityrates being above 60%, and so
what is that link betweenhousing and health?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
We're big believers in things called social
determinants of health, andsocial determinants of health
are five primary metrics andthey measure our environment
that we live in, our financialwell-being, the physical
environment we live in, ouraccess to transportation, all of
these things.
And if you think about it,there's your body health but
then there's the impact of yourhealth on all the things that
(14:39):
are around us every day in ourlives health but then there's
the impact of your health on allthe things that are around us
every day in our lives.
And one of the primary driversof your social determinants of
health is where you live andyour living environment.
And that's what led us to thebelief that the home is a
platform for healthy living.
So if you're not stressedfinancially, that's a huge
(15:00):
impact on your health, yourmental health, how you kind of
go through life every day.
If you're not lonely and you'resurrounded by some other people
who are both there from ahelpful standpoint, but also
from a fun standpoint the socialstandpoint you're activated,
your brain's moving, you'reenjoying life, you're stimulated
by the presence of other people, and if you're not worried
(15:21):
about where you can find whatyou need, you don't have to be
overwhelmed by the idea ofsearching for it and you can
come to your house.
That's a huge benefit to youfrom a health standpoint.
So we see those as primarydrivers of health and we think
it all starts with the house.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Unless one of your roommates is eating your food,
then you're going to be stressedout.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Which we, of course, have had.
That and a few other things.
It's funny that you bring thatup.
You know, one of the questionswe get asked a lot is what
happens if something goes wrong,and what happens if people
don't get along and you'reputting people together who
don't know each other.
All of that is true.
What we have found, though, isthat people who make the move to
live in a perch house areinvested in it, literally and
(16:06):
figuratively.
They're invested in the ideatoo, and when people are
invested in the idea, theyreally lean into making things
work.
I'm saying this because we'vejust seen it happen a number of
times.
It's very heartwarming to seepeople who come from opposite
ends of the political spectrumdifferent sides of the religious
spectrum, different sides ofthe sexual preference spectrum
(16:28):
come together over moreimportant things and help each
other and support each other andfind common ground as people,
and we hoped that would happen,but it's been really interesting
to see that happen with peoplewho are 55 plus who really want
to pay into the value ofbuilding relationships with
other people yeah, that's uh,you know I can see why.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Uh, you really focus on women because women really
it's innate in them to have thatconnectedness and wanting to be
part of community then we kindof want to be alone, leave us
alone, let us be independent anddon't touch my stuff, and so
you know, really great, greatmodel there for you.
(17:11):
So what makes the Perch Houseexperience unique?
Okay, we talked about eatingeach other's food.
What's unique about it?
Over anything else, that'sdealing with, you know, renting
your house to room to a friendor renting a room.
We see these models out there.
What's unique about Perch?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
There are a lot of models out there.
There's three things thatreally are important to us.
One is you mentioned peoplerenting a room in a house and
things like that mentionedpeople renting a room in a house
and things like that.
The premise of our houses isthat there's no hierarchy,
there's no owner, so we controlthe house, so our renters.
There's no pecking order interms of who owns the house and
(17:55):
who's a renter in the house, andthat's really important to
creating co-living environments.
The other one is that we act.
We call ourselves new ageproperty managers, but we're not
property managers, we're peoplemanagers, and so if you move
into a perch house, you don'thave a landlord.
You have somebody that is notonly dealing with your house but
(18:15):
helping you navigate aspects ofyour life, and every renter
we've had has said the samething to us.
They say it's never occurred tous that a landlord would play
these roles.
But if you think about how manybusinesses have transformed and
industries have transformed inthe last 20, 30 years, who are
doing things that they didn'tused to do before or have
(18:36):
disintermediated otherbusinesses that thought they did
something, we see thisintersection of service and
housing as being like the nextwave of what the landlord
experience should be like.
And I think the third thing isour location.
So we really try to keep ourhouses near major metropolitan
(18:57):
areas and that's why we say it'sa way to stay, because what we
listen to our renters say iswhere they want to live.
So we do a lot of outreach topeople, to our database and to
our in-reach, and one of thefirst questions we ask people is
, for example, if you were inGeorgia, where in Atlanta would
you like to live?
And they'll name a place.
Then we'll go get a house forthem.
So instead of working the otherway around, where you're just
(19:20):
kind of take what's out there,we try to find a place where the
demand is, which is obviouslygood for us, but that's where
people want to be, near theirfamily, friends and their work.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
When it comes to the floor plan of these houses.
What are your renters askingfor?
What are they looking for whenit comes to living environment?
Is it main level living?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
It's a great question and I will be honest, we are
learning as we go, and I thinkone of our biggest learnings
going forward is that ourcriteria for houses is evolving.
But in general, what peoplewant the base thing is private
bathroom.
So everyone needs a privatebedroom and a private bathroom.
Ideally, they have somealternative private space as
(20:02):
well.
That can be for a kitchenette,that can be for a little office
or something like that.
So we look for ways of creatingsuites in houses, and that's a
very important dynamic, becausewe don't look at this as
roommates.
We look at this as peoplesharing a house and therefore
you have private space almostlike a mini apartment.
(20:23):
So our criteria for houses isstrict and we never put more
than two to three people in ahouse, and so the houses have to
fit that.
And what we're evolving to togive you a little indication of
where we're going is morepurpose-built houses for this
purpose, almost like apartmentswithin houses, and we see that
as the future.
(20:44):
We think that houses that arebuilt with what we call
universal design, which isdesigned for anybody of any
ability, of any age, they aremore valuable in the real estate
market in general and theyserve our needs better.
So, as we look ahead, a perchhouse is about location, it's
about layout, and then it's alsoabout service.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
What comes up in my mind are two things.
Number one we saw in theresidential marketplace builders
were building homes but theywere doing, you know, not
attaching but there was an extradoor that went out or went into
another apartment for amother-in-law suite.
Okay, now, as you know, we havea huge change in demographics
(21:27):
going on in this country, andwhat we're finding is that more
and more of the differentnationalities tend to have a
culture that they take care ofmom in-house, so instead of
going into a rental opportunity,they bring them into their own
home.
Do you see anything that isgoing to affect your model when
(21:50):
it comes to demographics in thiscountry and the change?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well, we could have 10 companies doing what we're
all doing and we still wouldn'tscratch the surface of the need,
of the need.
So the idea of homes that arepurpose-built within Los Suits,
like you said, that's justfantastic for families that want
to do that.
Some families can't do that andsome people don't have families,
and some people have familiesthat live far away, and so our
(22:23):
focus is solo agers, and sothat's really our target and
we've tailored our businessaround the needs of solo agers,
and they may have family nearbyor the family may not be able to
have them live there or, youknow, they may just be single,
divorced women whose kids aregrown and moved away, and there
are a lot of people out therewho fit that demographic, and
what we want to do is providepeople who are still independent
(22:44):
living a way to not feelburdened by buying a house or
living with another family,although those are wonderful
options, and we just felt thatour target was going to be
solving for the solo market andwhat their needs were.
But I have to say, the number ofmodels out there as you
mentioned before about housesharing which are both elders
(23:07):
sharing with elders or elderssharing with younger people or
families sharing with in-laws.
They're all fantastic models.
It's funny the barrier to someof these are some of the single
family homes that have beenbuilt, which are built with a
single-minded nuclear, you know,a primary bedroom with a huge
(23:28):
bathroom and then three tinylittle rooms and a bathroom that
everyone shares.
And that's not really howpeople live.
Now.
You see in more houses, moreand more construction, more
thoughtful design.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Well, we talked about this offline and that is.
My son is a sophomore at UNC,chapel Hill.
Yeah, first year to go intostudent housing and guess what?
Four suites in the apartment,four suites, four bedrooms, four
baths, with the center area forthe kitchen and hangout area,
and he never sees his roommatesvery often, you know.
(24:00):
But that's that's that modelthat you're talking about, in
terms of if you were to developor partner with a developer
builder to build those foursuite within a main level home
would be fantastic if you canget the lots to enable that to
do it.
These homes have yards and theyhave trees and they have
(24:23):
gardens and such.
What do you bring to the tableto help the renters take care of
the homes and take care of thelandscaping?
Or even providers that come in,like home health aides or
medical doctors or whatever itmay be?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
We break it down into three groups, and so the first
group is what we call homeservices, and so we cover the
landscaping costs for the houseand our renters don't have to
worry about it.
We offer our renters maidservice if they want.
Some want it, believe it or not, some want to do it themselves,
so we offer that as an opt-in.
But we also provide Wi-Fi,security service and renter's
(25:02):
insurance, all bucketed into therent payment, so you've got one
price.
But those are what we callhouse services.
And then we have what arecalled lifestyle services, which
are connecting you to the localcommunity center, connecting
you with health and wellnessresources nearby, whether it's
yoga classes or just fitnessinstructors or fitness classes
(25:25):
and also nutritional advice.
And what we offer every renterwhen they move in is one free
hour of life coaching with thesefantastic women life coaches.
And so what they do is speak toour renters and create a
personal profile for them ofwhat their needs are, because
everyone's needs are differentand what do they want to do to
(25:46):
take care of themselves and whathelps them look forward and
think about life positively.
And then our renters take thatand we can connect them to the
resources that they think aremost valuable to them.
So we provide the connection tothe life coach and then we also
connect them with our suite ofquote unquote service suppliers
that we have that are all local,that we source.
(26:08):
The last area is what I wasalluding to earlier with our
more serious health services,and that's a tricky thing
because if someone really needsmedical attention, obviously we
want them to get that.
But there are many things froma health standpoint and I'll
give you an example that can bedone by connecting you to mental
(26:29):
health coaches, to homecaregivers.
And one of the other serviceswe provide is understanding
Medicare and, by extension,medicare Advantage.
Medicare is something we allget when we're 65.
And when you're 62 to 63, youstart thinking about it because
it's a big change coming up andeven people who understand
(26:51):
Medicare struggle to understandMedicare, and so what we do is
we provide a service that takes,obviously, the patient's
acknowledgement.
We take patient data and helpthem understand how to use
Medicaid to their advantage.
Again, it's an opt-in service,but that's an example of the
service levels.
It's home services, it'slifestyle services and then,
(27:12):
depending on your preference andhow we can help, it's more
health services that are focusedon you.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
That's fantastic.
I think that concierge servicesthere's a friend or
acquaintance of mine actually iscreating a healthcare company
that actually brings that highlevel of concierge services.
For example, many people don'tsee their medical doctor but
once every six months or a year.
Well, this service does thatonce a month.
(27:41):
We're going to be in your houseonce a month to see how it's
doing so.
It's a real values-based caremodel that can be incorporated
into your model, along withassisted living, independent
living communities and such.
So, as you know, this is a hugemarket that is just exploding,
(28:01):
and so where do you see marketexpansion happening for Perch
Homes?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
We see two types of expansion, but I think the first
, I will say before we are goingto expand dramatically it's
really refining our model.
Getting 200 people utilizingour service to its maximum
potential is far more importantto us than 5,000 people just
(28:28):
subscribing to something,because we think this is a very
long-term play and this idea ofa service connected to real
estate for distributed seniorliving has got a lot of moving
parts to it.
So we're right now in theAtlanta market.
We have our test houses in theWashington DC market.
So we're right now in theAtlanta market, we have our test
houses in the Washington DCmarket, but we're expanding in
the Atlanta market and we seeplaces like Tampa, st Petersburg
(28:51):
, fort Myers, that zone, dallas,denver, nashville, charlotte,
obviously Phoenix, being reallyattractive markets for us.
There's also the opportunity toexpand to secondary markets
Spokane, washington, for example, topeka, kansas and your first
question is going to be whythere?
(29:12):
And the reason is that seniorservices, the way we were
talking about them before, arenot equally distributed around
the United States and there areareas of need where senior
living, independent living,active adult, all of these
things still have not gotten to,and so the idea that we might
(29:32):
be able to do that from adistributed standpoint in some
of these other markets versus atraditional model and serve more
people is an intriguing option.
I think we have to.
You know, like I said, I wantto refine our original model
first.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
You're a good entrepreneur.
Right Focus on taking care ofwhat you built instead of going
out and trying to grow big.
So are there any newdevelopments you can share today
as it relates to the companyand its model?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well, I think what we're most excited about is
announcing some partnerships onthe service side in the near
future and really building outthat model.
That adds more dimensions to it.
One of the things as a smallbusiness you are very careful
about how you spend your moneywhen you're building a company.
So you have big ideas and youhave to execute day day.
(30:26):
And that's the dilemma of anentrepreneur Think big, act
small.
And one of the trade-offstypically one makes in that
process is you don't spend a tonof money building out a big
digital platform.
But now we've learned enough toknow what we want that platform
to be and we're excited to bebuilding out a proprietary
(30:46):
service platform in the next sixmonths eight months.
That, we think, is going to bekind of a game changer for this
model.
The second thing that we're veryexcited about is partnering
with the right Build to Rentpartners.
We've worked with a lot ofpeople in the real estate
industry, but what we're excitedabout Build to Rent is the
willingness to look atindividual houses as assets that
(31:10):
can be nurtured over time togenerate return and can be
purpose built for specific needsearlier.
The option of building a housewith universal design has great
value just inherently in and ofitself, but it also serves
multiple purposes and there'svery little work that would have
(31:31):
to be done to retrofit thathouse if you wanted to return it
to, for example, a singlefamily to live in.
So between working with theright real estate partners and
the right kind of housing designand then also building out our
software platform, we see thoseas two big things going forward.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
That's fantastic.
That's a roadmap for a startupcompany, entrepreneurial company
.
But one of the biggest thingsabout an entrepreneurial company
small business is the abilityto bring others in to help you
along in the process of growth.
So, wing, tell us a little bitabout what is it going to take
(32:08):
for you to go to the next leveland how can our members of our
audience help you with thatprocess, if they choose to do so
.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Absolutely the things that are going to get us to the
next level.
We're a little bit differentthan a business just looking for
venture investment.
We're looking for a partner toactually help us build the
company.
And when I say a partner, apartner from the health world, a
partner from the build to rentreal estate world, a partner
from the senior living world whounderstands that we're building
(32:39):
a next generation of service.
That kind of partner is hard tofind, but that's what we're
looking for.
Specifically, I think whatwe're looking for is the ability
to lock in with a certain kindof real estate partner and a
certain kind of build option,which is very, very important to
(33:00):
you.
Asked earlier what is a perchhouse.
That's a big step in our way ofdefining what a perch house is,
and the more we think aboutthis, the more that either
purpose-built houses orretrofitted houses with some
changes really change the game.
When you see a woman walk intoa house today, that's a suburban
(33:21):
house and she looks at it andshe says, well, that bedroom's
great.
I don't really like thatbedroom.
What we want is people to walkinto a house and go.
I could live in any of theseplaces because this is really
beautiful set up for two tothree people, and so we're
looking for a real estatepartner that wants to help us do
that.
And then the last thing we'relooking for is a health partner
(33:43):
to help us really, really buildout our health services platform
.
And we've got.
We all come from the healthcareindustry, so we're excited
about that.
But we aim to define our modeland then start to scale rapidly
into next year.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
We spoke offline and I mentioned what a great model
you have to go into, kind of thevillage concept I always talk
about.
Right here you have your, youknow, independent cottages, but
then your shared houses, all ina community.
That brings health and wellnessto that community, along with
(34:18):
caregivers on site andindependent living and assisted
living and memory care.
I think caregivers on site andindependent living and assisted
living and memory care, I thinkyou know, I think getting spread
out is great today, but in thefuture, being able to go into a
large development with thisconcept would be a great step
for you.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
We agree, and the thing in the past that's made
that a barrier for some peopleis that those are single family
dwellings or single persondwellings, so the cost is
prohibitive.
But if you can take thatapproach and share the cost,
you're opening this up to somany Americans who need this and
they're just dying forcompanionship and connectivity
(34:57):
and social activities, and so wesee that as the big opportunity
.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Awesome Wing.
How do individuals reach out toyou, how do they connect with
you and what is your website?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yep, we're perchhousescom and it's wing
W-I-N-G at perchhousescom.
We look forward to speaking toanyone who's interested in
hearing more.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Well, our audience appreciates you coming on and
giving them more ideas regardingthis big influx of older adults
coming into the marketplace anda fantastic model that you have
, thank you.
Thank you so much for being onour show and best of luck to you
, wayne.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Thanks, john, really appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
You're welcome.
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