November 12, 2024 • 41 mins
Are you feeling burned out by the dating process or struggling to show up in your relationships? In this episode, I talk with Rebecca Marcus, LCSW about going at your own pace and:
• Caring for yourself when starting new relationships just as you would in every other part of your life
• Not comparing yourself to others when dating and choosing the right pace for you
• Slowing down to process and reflect throughout the dating process to understand how you feel about the other person
• The importance of honoring and speaking your needs with the other people in your life, even if they’re also highly sensitive
Rebecca is a social worker in NYC who helps Millennial women chill out, get confident, and trust themselves and their dating process, so they can find and keep the love they want. Growing up on Disney movies, rom coms, and fairy tales about Prince Charming that showed unrealistic expectations of relationships, dating, and love only led to chaos and confusion when she started dating. So for a decade, she’s helped millennial women navigate the confusing NYC dating scene, break toxic patterns, and create relationships and a life filled with meaning and joy.
Keep in touch with Rebecca:
• Website: https://rmpsychotherapy.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rm.psychotherapy
Resources Mentioned:
• Free Meditation: https://rmpsychotherapy.com/subscribe
• Dating Groups: https://rmpsychotherapy.com/group
• Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781954118157
• Highly Sensitive Person by Dr. Elaine Aron: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780553062182
• The Empath’s Survival Guide by Dr. Judith Orloff: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781683642114
Thanks for listening! You can read the full show notes and sign up for my email list to get new episode announcements and other resources at:
https://www.sensitivestories.com
You can also follow "SensitiveStrengths" for behind-the-scenes content plus more educational and inspirational HSP resources:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sensitivestrengths
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@sensitivestrengths
And for more support, attend a Sensitive Sessions monthly workshop: https://www.sensitivesessions.com. Use code PODCAST for 25% off.
If you have a moment, please rate and review the podcast, it helps Sensitive Stories reach more HSPs!
This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional.
Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rebecca Marcus (00:00):
There's a sense of urgency because maybe we feel
lonely, or my friend just gotengaged, or they're married, or
you see a lot of the comparison,and so I think when we're in a
place of scarcity or urgency, Ithink that can definitely cause
burnout.
April Snow (00:22):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:44):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withRebecca Marcus about dating and
being in a relationship as anHSP and how to not ignore your
sensitive needs throughout theprocess.
Rebecca is a social worker inNew York City who helps
millennial women chill out, getconfident and trust themselves
and their dating process so theycan find and keep the love they
(01:07):
want.
Growing up on Disney movies,rom-coms and fairy tales about
Prince Charming that showedunrealistic expectations of
relationships, dating and loveonly led to chaos and confusion
when Rebecca started dating.
So for a decade she's helpedmillennial women navigate the
confusing dating scene, breaktoxic patterns and create
(01:28):
relationships and a life filledwith meaning and joy.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
(01:50):
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Rebecca, could you start off bytelling us your HSP discovery
(02:20):
story?
How and when do you rememberrealizing that you're highly
sensitive?
Rebecca Marcus (02:25):
So I have gone on an off since I was probably a
little kid like four, to playtherapist different therapist
and I think probably around 10years old.
One of the therapists that kindof like a family therapist gave
my mom the book that like Ithink Rebecca is highly
sensitive, so she gave her thatbook to read and then we didn't
(02:47):
really talk that much about it.
But then I remember in collegefinding the book and she's like,
oh yeah, this woman like Kathy,she gave it to read about you.
And then I read a little moreabout it and I was like, oh,
that's interesting and I hadalways kind of felt sensitive
and more curious about people'semotions.
And yeah, I always kind of feltsensitive and more curious
(03:08):
about people's emotions and,yeah, started diving a little
bit more in college.
And then when I re-found thatbook and took more intuitive
healing and reiki healing andjust kind of a more holistic
practice and yeah, I wasminoring in art and so just
reading about the book and thedifferent strengths and then the
things that could be overstimulating, or yeah, it just
resonated and then I picked itback up and come back and but,
(03:31):
it definitely really resonated.
And then I had also which I knowis a little bit different, but
read some of Judith Orloff'sempath stuff and I know they're
different, but just some of thethings and the ways of
understanding yourself andtuning into your nervous system
and like the gifts that comewith it when you have things
organized yeah, I don't know theword I'm losing the word that
(03:53):
I'm looking for but likesupportive, that you really
thrive.
So it's been a process.
And then also moving into beinga therapist and kind of
figuring out that direction withbeing a more sensitive person
as a therapist, yeah, yeah, it'ssuch a journey, isn't it
Organic?
yeah.
April Snow (04:14):
I love that it was introduced early on.
You're the first person I'vetalked to on the podcast that
their parents actually knewabout the trait in Elaine's book
early on.
Wow, which is so fascinatingthat most people say I knew
there was something differentabout me, but not knowing quite
what it was.
And how interesting that thatseed was planted early on.
But it sounds like do you findthat it showed up during your
(04:39):
childhood?
Did it inform how your mom oryour family looked at you or
treated your sensitivity?
Rebecca Marcus (04:43):
Well, I mean, I think that my, like my mom was a
little anxious.
She was a single mom and, likeI think more, didn't always know
how to help me with soothingand comfort, hand shrooms and
those kinds of things.
And yeah, I think now as aparent to a toddler that has
hand shrooms and like this kindof understanding dysregulation
(05:07):
and the nervous system and itall kind of makes sense with
being overstimulated and yeah.
So I guess maybe sensitive inthat way.
But also I was reading some ofthe strengths about it as I got
older.
I was sort of like kind of likea high EQ or like having
conversations with adults as alittle kid and just being very
(05:27):
empathic and things like thatand just very interested in
people and stories so and Ialways liked doing art and
creative things.
So, yeah, it's just interesting.
So I don't know, I guess Iprobably did feel sensitive a
lot and maybe I was told that.
April Snow (05:44):
But yeah, yeah.
And essentially you said youwere drawn to people's emotions
and you had this rich inner lifewhich I love.
It's such a therapist.
Rebecca Marcus (05:56):
But probably also.
Yeah, it's interesting Likelooking back.
April Snow (06:01):
Yeah, yeah.
What's interesting about it foryou when you think about those
early years?
Rebecca Marcus (06:08):
Yeah, I guess the way I'm describing it.
Now I didn't have the languageor sort of the insight to
understand that then.
April Snow (06:15):
Exactly, yeah, this is, I think, true for a lot of
us, when we finally have thelanguage there's so much to make
sense of.
Yeah, language there's so muchto make sense of yeah, when you
look back and you said youreally resonated with judith
orloff's work and being empathicand maybe picking up on things
in people's experiences thatmaybe other kids didn't or
(06:36):
family members didn't, and justhaving this, yeah, this very
distinct experience around yoursensitivity, yeah, very rich
yeah, yeah, I guess it's now.
Rebecca Marcus (06:47):
I look at it that way, but I don't know that.
I looked at it as much.
You know, like in the moment Iwas kind of anxious or not fully
understanding certain things.
April Snow (06:54):
Yeah right, yeah, when I look back for myself too,
I don't remember thinking oh,I'm sensitive when I was a kid
definitely right.
Yeah, it's interesting becauseI don't remember thinking that
definitely had some big feelingsand I was really curious and
perceptive, but I never thoughtof myself as sensitive, didn't
really have that language at all.
So yeah, now there's a lot ofkind of re -understanding those
(07:17):
earlier experiences when I lookback.
Rebecca Marcus (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, kind of integrating it with like
okay, I understand this now,this is what was understood then
, and I can hold space for both.
April Snow (07:30):
Yeah, exactly, and as you got older and started
forming relationships with folks, how did your sensitivity, or
how did being more sensitive,impact those experiences as you
got older?
Rebecca Marcus (07:42):
Interesting, High school and middle school, I
feel, are a harder time forsocial relationships.
I just think about it now.
I'm reflecting back a lot onthat, like my inner teen, and I
think like engaging, like I'mable to talk to people most
people easily, but definitely Ihad experienced some of those
(08:03):
like small talk being drainingor people that were.
Just now I realize it's like,oh, they're just maybe not so
deep or we just don't connect onthat, yeah, and having bad
experiences with misattainmentand then friendship being really
close and having deepconversations.
I think, yeah, in terms ofromantic relationships, I feel
(08:24):
like at crushes when I was, Idefinitely would have kind of a
lot of fans I mean, I talk aboutit now which is how that can
happen, and so I think thatevolution versus more when I was
a young woman, like dating, andunderstanding now what I see as
dating burnout and why it'sbetter to be intentional and
tune into yourself andunderstand your needs and like
(08:46):
less is more and that kind ofthing.
April Snow (08:48):
Yeah, I know that that was kind of a longer answer
this is helpful because you'reyou're highlighting a lot of, I
think, the struggles HSPs gothrough, whether forming any
relationship, wanting deep,meaningful relationships, not
always being able to get themnot just relationships,
relationships, but friendshipstoo but then often a lot of
times feeling disappointed orunfulfilled, right Like yeah,
(09:17):
find that, those closeconnections, then you have them.
Rebecca Marcus (09:18):
But I think sometimes I would experience,
yeah, like more sensitive torejection, I guess, or feeling
left out, yeah, but I did find,even as a teenager kid, I would
be friendly with like a handfulof people, but I tended to have
a few close friends that I wouldbe engaging with more and so
just understanding that now andit's interesting even, I feel
like now at the time of my life,and just my friendships and the
(09:40):
quality of that, this seems somuch more, I don't know, just
aligned and like the things thatreally matter.
So it's, yeah, looking at itthrough the HSP lens, I think,
is interesting for me.
April Snow (09:55):
Yeah, it is, and you mentioned being able to connect
with a lot of different typesof people.
That's definitely been myexperience, which always
surprises, surprises me.
I can kind of connect peoplewould tell me a lot like I
remember going to college and Iwent to a place in New Paltz.
Rebecca Marcus (10:08):
That's in up to New York but like Huffington
Valley, I'm originally fromOneonta and then I went.
New Paltz is like a little bitcloser to New York City now.
April Snow (10:17):
I'm in.
Rebecca Marcus (10:17):
New York City.
But yeah, and suddenly it waslike a lot more people and it
was like, oh, there's somepeople that I don't connect with
.
There's a lot more people, but Iremember people disclosing to
me a lot of things and you'relike, oh, okay, yeah, and then
just reading more about empaths,hsps and that like it kind of
happens to them right and beingmindful yeah of, like, how much
(10:39):
you're holding or taking on andI definitely have read a lot of
melody, bady, codependency kindof things that yeah, it's such a
delicate balance of holding,facing empathic, but then not
like, right, yeah, takingeverything on or, yeah, getting
drained, or maybe using it as away to feel like in control or
(11:01):
whatever if you're open to it.
April Snow (11:03):
I hear more about that.
Rebecca Marcus (11:10):
How does the control piece come in?
I'm curious.
I guess it's not in like a wayof really manipulative, but I
think with kind of morerejection, sensitivity or being
a little sensitive toabandonment or things like that,
and then feeling like oh, I'mvery like nurturing and I can
help people using it as a way tobe like oh, they're going to
want to like.
I don't know like a lessvulnerable way to bonds, which
now that's something that's notfulfilling because it feels like
(11:32):
it's not reciprocal.
But yeah, I don't know ifthat's an HSP trait, but
sometimes people see that in youand they're like, oh wow, you
really understand me.
April Snow (11:40):
Yeah Well, I don't know if this is true, but I
wonder if it's a way that we getvalue.
And then leaning kind of toomuch into this is something I've
definitely done where it's likeoh, I can be empathetic, I can
be caring, I can really seepeople, I can take care of their
emotions, but then I can maybeover-identify with that Exactly
Nothing is coming back in return, but it is safer.
Rebecca Marcus (12:04):
In some it's less vulnerable and that's, I
think you know, younger partsthere is like being in a more
survival mode.
But yeah, as you begin to kindof embrace and understand, it's
like oh, that doesn't actuallyfeel good and I don't need that.
April Snow (12:18):
Right, exactly Right .
You need something to come backand feel that support, yeah,
some reciprocity, yeah.
What do we do if we findourselves stuck in those
relationships or maybe in thatpattern of I'm always the giver?
How do we kind of write thebalance there?
Rebecca Marcus (12:36):
well and I think actually, like in dating with a
lot of the women I work with,especially kind of near city,
there's a lot of very successful, professionally successful, you
know, and not very driven, likealso kind of a little sensitive
and anxious, yeah, but a littleafraid to be vulnerable.
Sometimes with dating, I seethis and wanting to almost be
(12:57):
hyper independent or controlthings or predict every single
outcome, or, like you, I thinkit's a balance of being able to
find some softness andvulnerability, while also, you
know, like yes, yeah.
April Snow (13:10):
Welcoming in some softness and letting yourself be
cared for sometimes.
Rebecca Marcus (13:15):
Even if you can do it yourself.
April Snow (13:17):
But when asking for help and yeah.
Do you see that when you'rehelping clients in the dating
process, that they often are theones doing a lot of the
emotional labor in therelationships, or giving maybe
more than they're receiving,getting stuck in that role?
Rebecca Marcus (13:37):
Yeah, I mean it depends, I guess, on what stage
they're at if they're in arelationship, versus if they are
going on dates, single.
But yeah, definitely see womenthat it's a little scary to be
vulnerable or wanting to kind ofcontrol a lot of aspects or,
you know, wanting beingvulnerable and then feeling like
(13:59):
nervous about it afterwards.
Or, yeah, I tell people whenthey're very anxious about
meeting someone, they haven'tmet someone yet.
You know it doesn't end onceyou meet the person like all the
stuff is going to come up too.
It's kind of like a mirror.
So being able to be in tunewith that, understand what's
your stuff with theirs, how do Icommunicate it?
you know, where are differencesin what we need and you know,
(14:22):
even if you're dating anotherHSP like you might not always
have the same needs at the sametime or exactly the same
preferences.
April Snow (14:30):
That's true.
That's really a good reminderthat even two HSPs are going to
have differences to work throughand might be going at different
paces.
Rebecca Marcus (14:40):
Yeah, such a good reminder.
April Snow (14:41):
Yeah, you mentioned earlier about burnout.
We talked about this alreadyoff the recording.
But just how burnout can alsoshow up in dating, which we only
hear about burnout in workright.
Could you say more about thatexperience of burnout in dating?
Rebecca Marcus (14:59):
Well, it's interesting because I guess I
got interested in likemindfulness and burnout after
working in agency, transitioninginto private practice, but also
seeing how you could still beburnt out in the private
practice, and so I'm a speakerfor like PE lectures on burnout
and the helping profession andso just noticing some of the as
(15:21):
I had created that before Ireally niched onto dating, I saw
a lot of overlap and some ofthe things that I had been
through.
I mean, it's been a bit of timesince I was like in that dating
world but like initially what Iwas doing and then seeing what
wasn't working and then thingsthat I shifted and then seeing
clients coming in when they werein this place of just
(15:43):
misalignment and not really, youknow, intentional, versus the
ones that were yeah, and so Iwas like, oh, okay, like it's,
it's pretty similar and some ofthe strategies that you would
use to help are also kind ofsimilar to and just sort of this
interconnection of everythingand also sometimes how we could
hide.
(16:03):
But I guess the differencesometimes like hiding behind
work professionally like you can, I don't know.
I feel like the personal andprofessional.
It's like we want to haveboundaries but they also like go
back to one another.
April Snow (16:14):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah Right, I mean these twoare they easily overlap, right,
the things that?
You're seeing in dating versuswork.
You know putting so much intoit.
If I'm let's say I'm in thedating process, what would lead
me to burnout in that?
What are some of the thingsthat you see like what am I
(16:34):
doing that could make me feelburned out in my dating life
versus work?
Rebecca Marcus (16:39):
so specifically for HF or anyone, really I'm
just yeah, yeah.
Well, okay.
So I guess I would think that'sa clarify, because I think I
would say when you're going onway too many dates and it's not
with people that are alignedlike they're not a good fit,
whether that means they don'thave the same like values or
(17:01):
like a vision for what they want, or they're just kind of.
It's just not like personalitywise or it's uncomfortable.
You don't really want to bethere but you went and you feel
bad, like some of that stuff.
But sometimes I have found,definitely for HSPs and more
introverted, I definitely saylike just less is more.
(17:22):
But there are some people maybethat are a little bit more
extroverted that sometimes, ifthey're a little anxious
socially in terms of going outto them, just going out on a few
dates to kind of like getthings moving, can be helpful.
So I think it's again it's liketuning into yourself, though,
and sort of knowing, but Idefinitely think going out with
(17:42):
people just because like likethrowing spaghetti at the wall
when you don't actually reallyknow what you value or what you
need, what your needs, are whatworked in the last relationship
what did?
it what are maybe like kind ofblind spot or there's a sense of
urgency, because maybe we feellonely or we feel like, oh, my
friend just got engaged, orthey're married, or you know,
(18:04):
like you see a lot of thecomparison.
And so I think when we're inlike a place of kind of scarcity
or like urgency and we stay inthat and keep taking like I need
to do more and more and more, Ithink that can definitely cause
burnout.
April Snow (18:18):
Sure, especially if you see others around you
meeting milestones in arelationship, either starting a
relationship, getting married,maybe having kids, and then
chronically maybe feeling likeyou're behind.
Rebecca Marcus (18:30):
I work with a lot of clients that are in that
space.
April Snow (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that urgency amps way up,
and then we're maybe pushingourselves beyond our capacity
for dating.
Rebecca Marcus (18:42):
And also I think I use a lot of.
I mean, I'm integrative, Ithink, as you are too, but stuff
around nervous systemregulation and then also secure
attachment like healingattachment, and it's like when
we're in a place where we'reburnt out and anxious and we go
on a date we're not going to,we're not really in a place
(19:02):
where we're safe and connectedto really.
You know, openly connect orshow up authentically or feel
like comfortable.
April Snow (19:11):
Yeah, that's true.
Rebecca Marcus (19:13):
You maybe need to do some grounding, some
regulating first, so you can beclear-headed enough to think how
am I feeling, how am Iconnecting with this person
exactly in the moment and alsoahead of time meeting at a place
that like also works for you,like if you have a super long
day and it's one thing if you'vebeen seeing someone and you're
(19:34):
really excited, but you're kindof meeting on first seats and
it's like that's not reallyconvenient for me, but I guess
I'll go or like that's far Idon't really, but but I
personally I'm just like oh okay, I'll pick a place right near
me.
If it's not good, then I givemyself a time.
When I started doing that, Ifelt more like okay, well, I
went.
And then I think also sometimesagain that quality over
(19:56):
quantity, like really tuning in,okay, well, what is it that
they actually need?
What are my needs in arelationship?
And being clear on what arelike arbitrary things that are
it's like based on an image,that like, is that really going
to be a trait that meets a needof yours, or it's just sort of a
status about how it'll lookexternally or something that.
But it's good to have our ownstandards.
But I kind of encourage peopleto look within and think about
(20:20):
that and to be confident inknowing that.
And I recommend do a call withsomebody before you meet them,
like if you can bet people,because less is more, and I
think people get into like, oh,I'm going to miss out, and I
this is where I think like thespirituality and letting go
piece is.
I find releasing thatexpectation and like attachment
to the outcome to be okay, butlike you're being intentional
(20:44):
about it, so like you're justfiltering it out.
If it doesn't work out, okay,you're just getting closer to
the next one, and when you're inthat place of alignment, it
just comes.
I mean people always like tohear that, and so it's the more
we tune into our knowing, like I, like I don't know just I
really enjoyed all of the stuffI've seen with your work of even
(21:05):
just knowing your schedule, orwhen you need a pause, or when
you need a moment to regulate,or maybe you need time to
yourself, or maybe that's goingto be too much for you and
putting yourself into a placewhere you're first filled up and
regulated and then going out,dating or even showing up in a
relationship.
I tell people you don't throwthese skills out the window,
(21:25):
like, once you're in arelationship, you still have to
be throwing up your cupregulating your nervous system
communicating your needs, Likeyeah.
April Snow (21:34):
Yeah, everything you're saying really resonates
because you need to take careand consider your nervous system
, your needs and the equation ofdating.
I love it You're saying like,familiarize yourself with where
you're going, pick somewherethat's close.
Maybe that'll help minimize anyanxiety or energy that it takes
to go on these dates If you cansave some of that bandwidth.
And then, yeah, giving yourselftime to process, vet these
(21:55):
people.
It's okay to say no.
It's okay to trust your gut ifsomething's not feeling good.
You don't have to like datearbitrarily just to meet a
certain threshold or somethinglike that.
Rebecca Marcus (22:05):
Yeah, and I think that also the same goes
with.
It's definitely good to havesome outside guidance, but I
think it's like being moreintentional with not asking a
million different people,because that can also cause some
burnout or like confusion.
So people that you trust, trustthat you respect, they
understand you, you're able tohave conversations, um, I think
(22:27):
that helps too.
Yeah, just having a supportsystem throughout the process
yeah and yeah, and I mean in mypractice we also do like some
dating group, like group therapy, kind of psychoeducation,
because I have found that also,like you're saying, the feeling
of isolation people can feel alot and so if you're like I just
need to meet someone becauseeveryone else has someone, you
(22:49):
can also start to like you'renot really tuned into what you
actually need right.
April Snow (22:55):
So just coming back to yourself and having other
people that are like-minded.
Rebecca Marcus (23:00):
They have the same intention.
They get it like you feel.
Okay.
I definitely found for myself,having at least a few supportive
you know, platonic friends,that safe relationships and we
could support each other made adifference could you say a
little bit more about?
April Snow (23:17):
what does that look like?
Is that checking in before,after dates, dates?
Is that getting advice?
What does that look like?
Rebecca Marcus (23:23):
Yeah, I guess a bit of both, and also knowing
that having people to do thingswith outside of just dating and
feeling supported yeah, likeencouraging each other, looking
out for each other.
I feel like that was helpfulfor me personally and I've seen
with my clients which is why Icreated the dating groups was
(23:43):
the ones that had more likepositive friends aligned, I
guess.
Like in the same page as whatfelt like support.
It was a lot easier to feelrelaxed about dating versus
people that felt like they wereall alone and that feeling of
loneliness and then that likeurgency, I have to meet someone.
I think it was harder.
April Snow (24:04):
Right right when.
If you have friends in yourcorner it kind of softens that
urgency yeah, like some kind ofcommunity right.
Yeah, how amazing that you'redoing groups.
I mean, that is such a goodsupport yeah, it's fun for me
too.
Rebecca Marcus (24:18):
I ran a lot of groups when I worked in
addiction treatment and I thinkI just put something a little
different about group energy.
April Snow (24:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm curious Is that somethingyou only offer for folks that
are in New York, or is itsomething that is online?
Rebecca Marcus (24:31):
Well, we have like psychoeducation, ones that
are more general to people outof state, and then there's I'm
also listening to Florida and myassociate is New York and New
Jersey, so for like the moreprocess groups and people in
state, but then we have likepsychoeducation where it's like
workshops and stuff like that.
Yeah, so it's been fun, yeah,and it's really nice Like I
(24:55):
think also kind of thesynchronicity that you see, the
synergy and things that you seein a group is inspiring it
really is.
Yeah, you tend to see your ownexperience show up when you see
in a group is inspiring.
April Snow (25:03):
It really is.
Yeah, you tend to see your ownexperience show up when you're
in community.
Rebecca Marcus (25:09):
Yeah, I love that.
April Snow (25:11):
So I have a listener question for you, if you're
open to it.
So this is about once you're inrelationship and this person
says you know, relationships areso important, as we both know.
Rebecca Marcus (25:28):
But the time and the energy needed to sustain
them can be really overwhelming.
April Snow (25:31):
You know, when you're dealing with life,
friendships, family.
How do we find the energy tomaintain these romantic
relationships or build arelationship?
If you're in the dating process, when you're more sensitive and
maybe have less capacity, howdo we find the time and energy
for a relationship?
Rebecca Marcus (25:46):
That's a really good question.
It sounds very reflective, youknow, self-reflective.
So I think it's definitelytuning into when you're depleted
and still filling up your owncup and recognizing that the
relationship, like your partner,is not going to be able to fill
every single role for you Somestuff is you have to take care
(26:08):
of.
Some stuff might be a friend orlike going to a yoga class or
something else.
And then I think beingintentional about making time to
connect, but also recognizingwhether or not your partner is
highly sensitive or not,recognizing whether or not your
partner is highly sensitive ornot, but kind of talking about
like hey, these are things thatsometimes I need a little more
(26:28):
time or I was a little toosocial, like just communicating,
I think, our expectations andneeds and having an open
dialogue with both people.
April Snow (26:40):
So important isn't it?
Rebecca Marcus (26:58):
Yeah, so important, isn't it?
Different things, you know,like okay, maybe we need to
schedule a babysitter for thisdate night, like, let's put our
phones away for this dinner, theshow, certain things, like
being intentional about it,because they think we with life
is overstimulating andoverwhelming and there's a lot
of stuff that we have.
So finding that time to be ableto ground and even doing some
(27:21):
things, like together that aregrounding, yeah, but I think
paying attention if you feeldepleted, like maybe it's just
also thinking about maybe whatcan we simplify or clear out a
little that's not as essentialthat might be causing, like, an
energy drain yeah right, justlooking at, what do we need to
either sustain ourselves or comeback together in relationship,
(27:43):
and also like going back to do.
Both people have a shared visionand shared expectations of the
relationship, because if that'smismatched, yeah, yeah, right,
that's a big deal.
April Snow (27:57):
Yeah, and I know people.
Rebecca Marcus (27:59):
it's vulnerable, especially in today's dating
culture, sometimes to own, likewhat you want, or to be with the
fear of owning people that arelike, oh, I'm just looking for
something casual.
But then before they just toldme they're like, well, he said
he just wants to see, and I'mlike, but you just told me you
really want a commitment or aserious relationship.
So it's a fear of like, well, Idon't want to get rid of what I
(28:21):
have, because then I'd reallybe alone.
Or sometimes maybe somebody'slike, they do like the person,
but maybe it feels like there'sfalse intimacy building or a lot
of texting up front before youreally met or a little love
bombing Not that it's always bad, but sometimes we get excited
with our hormones and chemistryand so I think, sometimes
slowing it down if it does feelintense, and noticing that and
(28:43):
kind of being more in tune, justyou know, based on this person
asking themselves well, how muchtime do you want to put into it
?
Is it the priority for you?
Kind of exploring your own.
April Snow (28:52):
Yeah, that's a great inquiry too.
How much do you want versus howmuch is expected and what's
realistic?
Yeah, these are great questions.
I think there is a lot ofpressure to do relationships in
a certain way.
Rebecca Marcus (29:05):
I know, and I think it is a combination of,
like our families, differentgenerations.
As we look at all the cycles ofintergener gratification, I
think we have kind of beenabsorbed a lot into the dating
(29:28):
culture.
Um yep, but in general, justthe things that we see on tv and
movies I mean, I've watched allof them too.
They're fun.
But I think having somedistinguishing that like that's
a 45 minute episode or whatever,that's like an hour and a half
movie, like after they gettogether.
There's work that has like youknow, they don't just live
happily ever after, right workand even in terms of like sex
(29:52):
and intimacy and some of the, Ithink, expectations or things as
relationships change or thingsare stressful or there's not
times, and kind of justnormalizing that things up and
flow and that it's an ongoingthing and yeah, it's not a fairy
tale.
April Snow (30:07):
I think you talk about this a lot like the
rom-coms or the Disney movies,where everything looks a certain
perfect way.
That's not reality at all.
Rebecca Marcus (30:16):
Right.
I mean I think you can havemoments where you feel you know
I don't mean to say it in a waythat like it's not something
that's meaningful, but I thinkit's like in general real life,
I guess, like this person isasking does have different
stressors or responsibilities,or you're tired or you're not
feeling.
Well, you know.
(30:36):
So I think it's also learninghow do we kind of coexist and
co-regulate and navigate it like, communicate it and ultimately
thinking about when you'redating.
That I mean depending on whatgoals are, because I don't it
like that's what I always peopleclarify your own goal, like if
somebody wants to be casual or,you know, conventional
non-monogamy, or I mean itreally depends.
(30:58):
I took my population I'm workingwith is more like monogamous,
um, commitment, so.
But again, it's like somepeople want kids and people
don't.
Some people could go either wayand even those kind of things
can definitely, you know, ifyou're not aligned with it.
So I think just clarifying foryourself is important too and
then thinking about like, okay,well, this is like a long-term
(31:19):
thing.
I'm also going to want toprioritize traits of a perk in
50, 60 years, like someone whocommunicates well, someone who's
thoughtful, someone who canlisten someone who doesn't have
a short fuse or yeah, that's agreat inquiry what type of
person I would spend the nextmultiple decades of my life with
, and what would be a fit for meand I guess it sounds almost
(31:42):
like that's what I'm saying.
It's like whatever works foreach person.
It's not that I force that onanyone, but I think a lot of
people are saying that they'reseeing this in in movies but
they're not registering like ohright, exactly, yeah, the
different pieces of puzzle.
April Snow (31:58):
As we we get closer to wrapping up, I'm wondering if
there's anything we've left outthat feels important to share
with folks that are listeningabout dating relationships.
Rebecca Marcus (32:07):
As a sensitive person, I think, remembering
because even I think my husbandis relatively more sensitive I
made him read the HSP book, theJudith Orr.
But we're're also different andwe have sometimes different
preferences on what we want.
Or some might be similar, butwe might want alone time at
(32:28):
different times, or we might youmight want affectionate time
when I don't, or like vice versa.
And I think you know, obviouslywe're like a line, but maybe
one person is triggered bysomething or it's not discussed
and that I think sometimes beingnervous speaker needs or this
illusion of like our partnershould know but they don't know.
And so I think, tuning in,learning about your traits and
(32:52):
what you need.
Even I'm like, can we turn offthese overhead lights?
It's not as sensitive to themas I get started.
I'm like I just need a littleof the overhead light.
I'm over-stimulated right now.
Everyone, everyone's different,so that's why I think it's just
communicating it and, again,like bringing in, like
attachment, which I styled.
I really feel are kind of fluidpersonally, but being even like,
(33:16):
oh, like I feel nervous if Idon't hear from you all day,
even though I have my what myfriend, it's like my husband's
always.
He never texts, but he hatestexting.
He doesn't like to really be onthe phone so he's not always
paying attention, but it's kindof her being like but I feel
anxious not hearing from you, socould you let me know you're
not going to be outCommunicating things like that
(33:37):
and then knowing for ourselveswhen it's like, okay, I'm
irritated, I need to.
I'm not expecting someone toread your mind.
Yeah, we do.
April Snow (33:51):
I think, though, because we are very perceptive
as HSPs, and I think a lot oftimes we want or we hope that
other people will do the same.
But even when you have two HSPstogether, there's still
communication that needs tohappen moment to moment, even if
you're perfectly aligned onyour values and everything
else's no things, and I thinkthat's also it's like the myth
(34:14):
of the one or whatever.
Rebecca Marcus (34:15):
That it's like oh, even with the rate percent,
it'll never be hard and itdoesn't mean it's not meaningful
and it's not like rewarding andit's not the right person
sometimes it's not, but yeah, Ithink having more of that, like
this fluid kind of like, okay,it's gonna ebb and flow Like
each day we're tuning into ourneeds, we're regrounding, yeah,
just creating some of our ownspace.
(34:37):
And I mean I think even I seethis like people talk a lot
about mom burnout too which isnot my specialty, but I
definitely.
when I became a new mom, Idefinitely felt that and I think
that some of that of like nowmy daughter's in daycare and I
feel like I have my own time,and there can be feelings of
like guilt or like, oh, I'mexercising, I'm doing this, but
then I'm showing up like morefilled up for her, and I think
(34:58):
it's similar with a romanticpartner right, filling up
yourself, so then you havesomething to bring into the
relationship and also the energyto communicate needs,
boundaries, whatever it is.
April Snow (35:12):
Yeah, expectations, expectations, yeah.
It seems like a lot of whetheryou're dating, whether you're in
a relationship, is reallysupporting yourself and then
really getting in touch withwhat your needs, your values,
expectations are.
I think these really corepieces.
Rebecca Marcus (35:36):
And I feel like that's also.
I think it's buying the stuffthat's not so aligned.
So, whether it's extra stuff onyour calendar that's like, oh,
it just feels like I'm drainedall the time and I don't have
time for a relationship, ormaybe going out with people.
That's not aligned, yeah.
April Snow (35:56):
And needing to be thoughtful about that with your
limited energy and bandwidth.
Rebecca Marcus (36:03):
Yeah, and I definitely have seen on your
things.
At least that you talk about isjust normalizing it for
yourself, like, okay, this is mycapacity and like, with that,
why do I want to prioritize?
And you know, I think sometimeswe can feel frustrated and I've
seen you say that a lot and Ilike your surveys and you say
like how many, what's yourcaseload, that you're
(36:24):
comfortable with, Like you know,and even the comparison that we
do to other people, or likeyeah, we could ask ourselves the
same question with how manydates can you go on a week?
April Snow (36:35):
So I have some clients that feel like they need
to go on 10 dates a week tokeep up and give themselves the
best chance.
I'm like, well, let's take alook, is that actually
sustainable?
Rebecca Marcus (36:44):
Yeah, I know, it's that scarcity mindset.
I've had my one friend the sameone now when she was dating,
but the one I said about, likethe husband, doesn't like to be
on his phone, he doesn't evenhave a smartphone Like he.
Just he didn't, yeah, but Iremember she got like a lot of
dates but she was like moreextroverted and she liked it.
So that's what I'm saying, kindof knowing yourself.
(37:05):
Knowing yourself, but if it'sfor a person and it feels like
they're still coming in likethis.
It's kind of like okay, is thisactually helping?
April Snow (37:13):
right, because if you're showing up to dates
dysregulated, maybe resentfulfor being there, but you think
you should that's not gonna gowell, yeah, exactly yeah, yeah,
thank you for all this.
I mean, I think it's a reminderfor sensitive folks to honor
your needs even in dating, and alot of the ways that you're
taking care of yourself in yourpersonal life at work can also
(37:34):
show up in your relationships.
There's a lot of crossoverwhich I hadn't really put
together, and I reallyappreciate the burnout piece
because that's, I think, reallyimportant for us to think about
how can we make datingsustainable and fulfilling and
our relationships.
Rebecca Marcus (37:47):
Yeah, and I think also that you were saying
just in terms of your own careerand pivoting, and I think,
looking at relationships anddating and our lives, as you
know, we want to have somestructure and direction, but
kind of knowing that it's goingto be a little bit fluid and it
will ebb and flow, and having tochecking in with ourselves.
(38:08):
Yeah, yeah, what?
April Snow (38:09):
just as a maybe a final thought.
What could checking in withourselves?
Yeah, yeah, what?
Just as a maybe a final thoughtwhat could checking in with
ourselves?
In dating look like Is theresomething that you've done or
you share with clients as a wayto take a baseline.
Rebecca Marcus (38:22):
So I guess how you feel on the date, like are
you feeling comfortable?
Do you feel like conversationflowing?
Are you feeling heard?
Heard, you know, are theylistening?
Yeah, just giving yourself alittle time after, like you
don't always have to immediatelycall someone, just letting it
settle for a little bit.
Or also, if it's really feelinguncomfortable, and like to
(38:46):
trust that too yes, exactly,give yourself time to process as
an HSP.
April Snow (38:52):
It might not be apparent in the moments, but
also using all the nonverbalinformation, you're picking up
the emotion, what's happeningbetween the lines, how you feel
when you're with that person.
There's a lot of informationthere that you could use Totally
.
Rebecca Marcus (39:08):
Yeah, and I think also still taking time to
do other things that are fun orenjoyable for yourself, like
self-care right, don't throweverything else out to date,
don't lose yourself.
April Snow (39:23):
I just want to thank you so much for this
conversation.
I feel like thank you so much.
It was so wonderful, it was sofun.
So I know I'll be sure to shareyour website, your Instagram.
I know you have a freemeditation for folks who are in
the dating process, so I'llshare all that in the show notes
.
Rebecca Marcus (39:41):
Okay, wonderful.
Thank you so much, April.
April Snow (39:52):
Thanks so much for joining me and Rebecca for
today's conversation.
What I hope you will rememberis that you can go at your own
pace when dating or starting arelationship, and that your
needs are just as valid as yourpartner's.
Just don't forget to let themknow what those needs are.
And for more support in thedating process, you can visit
Rebecca's website for a freemeditation and support groups.
(40:14):
Links are in the show notes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
(40:34):
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
There's a sense of urgency because maybe we feel
lonely, or my friend just gotengaged, or they're married, or
you see a lot of the comparison,and so I think when we're in a
place of scarcity or urgency, Ithink that can definitely cause
burnout.
April Snow (00:22):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:44):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withRebecca Marcus about dating and
being in a relationship as anHSP and how to not ignore your
sensitive needs throughout theprocess.
Rebecca is a social worker inNew York City who helps
millennial women chill out, getconfident and trust themselves
and their dating process so theycan find and keep the love they
(01:07):
want.
Growing up on Disney movies,rom-coms and fairy tales about
Prince Charming that showedunrealistic expectations of
relationships, dating and loveonly led to chaos and confusion
when Rebecca started dating.
So for a decade she's helpedmillennial women navigate the
confusing dating scene, breaktoxic patterns and create
(01:28):
relationships and a life filledwith meaning and joy.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
(01:50):
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Rebecca, could you start off bytelling us your HSP discovery
(02:20):
story?
How and when do you rememberrealizing that you're highly
sensitive?
Rebecca Marcus (02:25):
So I have gone on an off since I was probably a
little kid like four, to playtherapist different therapist
and I think probably around 10years old.
One of the therapists that kindof like a family therapist gave
my mom the book that like Ithink Rebecca is highly
sensitive, so she gave her thatbook to read and then we didn't
(02:47):
really talk that much about it.
But then I remember in collegefinding the book and she's like,
oh yeah, this woman like Kathy,she gave it to read about you.
And then I read a little moreabout it and I was like, oh,
that's interesting and I hadalways kind of felt sensitive
and more curious about people'semotions.
And yeah, I always kind of feltsensitive and more curious
(03:08):
about people's emotions and,yeah, started diving a little
bit more in college.
And then when I re-found thatbook and took more intuitive
healing and reiki healing andjust kind of a more holistic
practice and yeah, I wasminoring in art and so just
reading about the book and thedifferent strengths and then the
things that could be overstimulating, or yeah, it just
resonated and then I picked itback up and come back and but,
(03:31):
it definitely really resonated.
And then I had also which I knowis a little bit different, but
read some of Judith Orloff'sempath stuff and I know they're
different, but just some of thethings and the ways of
understanding yourself andtuning into your nervous system
and like the gifts that comewith it when you have things
organized yeah, I don't know theword I'm losing the word that
(03:53):
I'm looking for but likesupportive, that you really
thrive.
So it's been a process.
And then also moving into beinga therapist and kind of
figuring out that direction withbeing a more sensitive person
as a therapist, yeah, yeah, it'ssuch a journey, isn't it
Organic?
yeah.
April Snow (04:14):
I love that it was introduced early on.
You're the first person I'vetalked to on the podcast that
their parents actually knewabout the trait in Elaine's book
early on.
Wow, which is so fascinatingthat most people say I knew
there was something differentabout me, but not knowing quite
what it was.
And how interesting that thatseed was planted early on.
But it sounds like do you findthat it showed up during your
(04:39):
childhood?
Did it inform how your mom oryour family looked at you or
treated your sensitivity?
Rebecca Marcus (04:43):
Well, I mean, I think that my, like my mom was a
little anxious.
She was a single mom and, likeI think more, didn't always know
how to help me with soothingand comfort, hand shrooms and
those kinds of things.
And yeah, I think now as aparent to a toddler that has
hand shrooms and like this kindof understanding dysregulation
(05:07):
and the nervous system and itall kind of makes sense with
being overstimulated and yeah.
So I guess maybe sensitive inthat way.
But also I was reading some ofthe strengths about it as I got
older.
I was sort of like kind of likea high EQ or like having
conversations with adults as alittle kid and just being very
(05:27):
empathic and things like thatand just very interested in
people and stories so and Ialways liked doing art and
creative things.
So, yeah, it's just interesting.
So I don't know, I guess Iprobably did feel sensitive a
lot and maybe I was told that.
April Snow (05:44):
But yeah, yeah.
And essentially you said youwere drawn to people's emotions
and you had this rich inner lifewhich I love.
It's such a therapist.
Rebecca Marcus (05:56):
But probably also.
Yeah, it's interesting Likelooking back.
April Snow (06:01):
Yeah, yeah.
What's interesting about it foryou when you think about those
early years?
Rebecca Marcus (06:08):
Yeah, I guess the way I'm describing it.
Now I didn't have the languageor sort of the insight to
understand that then.
April Snow (06:15):
Exactly, yeah, this is, I think, true for a lot of
us, when we finally have thelanguage there's so much to make
sense of.
Yeah, language there's so muchto make sense of yeah, when you
look back and you said youreally resonated with judith
orloff's work and being empathicand maybe picking up on things
in people's experiences thatmaybe other kids didn't or
(06:36):
family members didn't, and justhaving this, yeah, this very
distinct experience around yoursensitivity, yeah, very rich
yeah, yeah, I guess it's now.
Rebecca Marcus (06:47):
I look at it that way, but I don't know that.
I looked at it as much.
You know, like in the moment Iwas kind of anxious or not fully
understanding certain things.
April Snow (06:54):
Yeah right, yeah, when I look back for myself too,
I don't remember thinking oh,I'm sensitive when I was a kid
definitely right.
Yeah, it's interesting becauseI don't remember thinking that
definitely had some big feelingsand I was really curious and
perceptive, but I never thoughtof myself as sensitive, didn't
really have that language at all.
So yeah, now there's a lot ofkind of re -understanding those
(07:17):
earlier experiences when I lookback.
Rebecca Marcus (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, kind of integrating it with like
okay, I understand this now,this is what was understood then
, and I can hold space for both.
April Snow (07:30):
Yeah, exactly, and as you got older and started
forming relationships with folks, how did your sensitivity, or
how did being more sensitive,impact those experiences as you
got older?
Rebecca Marcus (07:42):
Interesting, High school and middle school, I
feel, are a harder time forsocial relationships.
I just think about it now.
I'm reflecting back a lot onthat, like my inner teen, and I
think like engaging, like I'mable to talk to people most
people easily, but definitely Ihad experienced some of those
(08:03):
like small talk being drainingor people that were.
Just now I realize it's like,oh, they're just maybe not so
deep or we just don't connect onthat, yeah, and having bad
experiences with misattainmentand then friendship being really
close and having deepconversations.
I think, yeah, in terms ofromantic relationships, I feel
(08:24):
like at crushes when I was, Idefinitely would have kind of a
lot of fans I mean, I talk aboutit now which is how that can
happen, and so I think thatevolution versus more when I was
a young woman, like dating, andunderstanding now what I see as
dating burnout and why it'sbetter to be intentional and
tune into yourself andunderstand your needs and like
(08:46):
less is more and that kind ofthing.
April Snow (08:48):
Yeah, I know that that was kind of a longer answer
this is helpful because you'reyou're highlighting a lot of, I
think, the struggles HSPs gothrough, whether forming any
relationship, wanting deep,meaningful relationships, not
always being able to get themnot just relationships,
relationships, but friendshipstoo but then often a lot of
times feeling disappointed orunfulfilled, right Like yeah,
(09:17):
find that, those closeconnections, then you have them.
Rebecca Marcus (09:18):
But I think sometimes I would experience,
yeah, like more sensitive torejection, I guess, or feeling
left out, yeah, but I did find,even as a teenager kid, I would
be friendly with like a handfulof people, but I tended to have
a few close friends that I wouldbe engaging with more and so
just understanding that now andit's interesting even, I feel
like now at the time of my life,and just my friendships and the
(09:40):
quality of that, this seems somuch more, I don't know, just
aligned and like the things thatreally matter.
So it's, yeah, looking at itthrough the HSP lens, I think,
is interesting for me.
April Snow (09:55):
Yeah, it is, and you mentioned being able to connect
with a lot of different typesof people.
That's definitely been myexperience, which always
surprises, surprises me.
I can kind of connect peoplewould tell me a lot like I
remember going to college and Iwent to a place in New Paltz.
Rebecca Marcus (10:08):
That's in up to New York but like Huffington
Valley, I'm originally fromOneonta and then I went.
New Paltz is like a little bitcloser to New York City now.
April Snow (10:17):
I'm in.
Rebecca Marcus (10:17):
New York City.
But yeah, and suddenly it waslike a lot more people and it
was like, oh, there's somepeople that I don't connect with
.
There's a lot more people, but Iremember people disclosing to
me a lot of things and you'relike, oh, okay, yeah, and then
just reading more about empaths,hsps and that like it kind of
happens to them right and beingmindful yeah of, like, how much
(10:39):
you're holding or taking on andI definitely have read a lot of
melody, bady, codependency kindof things that yeah, it's such a
delicate balance of holding,facing empathic, but then not
like, right, yeah, takingeverything on or, yeah, getting
drained, or maybe using it as away to feel like in control or
(11:01):
whatever if you're open to it.
April Snow (11:03):
I hear more about that.
Rebecca Marcus (11:10):
How does the control piece come in?
I'm curious.
I guess it's not in like a wayof really manipulative, but I
think with kind of morerejection, sensitivity or being
a little sensitive toabandonment or things like that,
and then feeling like oh, I'mvery like nurturing and I can
help people using it as a way tobe like oh, they're going to
want to like.
I don't know like a lessvulnerable way to bonds, which
now that's something that's notfulfilling because it feels like
(11:32):
it's not reciprocal.
But yeah, I don't know ifthat's an HSP trait, but
sometimes people see that in youand they're like, oh wow, you
really understand me.
April Snow (11:40):
Yeah Well, I don't know if this is true, but I
wonder if it's a way that we getvalue.
And then leaning kind of toomuch into this is something I've
definitely done where it's likeoh, I can be empathetic, I can
be caring, I can really seepeople, I can take care of their
emotions, but then I can maybeover-identify with that Exactly
Nothing is coming back in return, but it is safer.
Rebecca Marcus (12:04):
In some it's less vulnerable and that's, I
think you know, younger partsthere is like being in a more
survival mode.
But yeah, as you begin to kindof embrace and understand, it's
like oh, that doesn't actuallyfeel good and I don't need that.
April Snow (12:18):
Right, exactly Right .
You need something to come backand feel that support, yeah,
some reciprocity, yeah.
What do we do if we findourselves stuck in those
relationships or maybe in thatpattern of I'm always the giver?
How do we kind of write thebalance there?
Rebecca Marcus (12:36):
well and I think actually, like in dating with a
lot of the women I work with,especially kind of near city,
there's a lot of very successful, professionally successful, you
know, and not very driven, likealso kind of a little sensitive
and anxious, yeah, but a littleafraid to be vulnerable.
Sometimes with dating, I seethis and wanting to almost be
(12:57):
hyper independent or controlthings or predict every single
outcome, or, like you, I thinkit's a balance of being able to
find some softness andvulnerability, while also, you
know, like yes, yeah.
April Snow (13:10):
Welcoming in some softness and letting yourself be
cared for sometimes.
Rebecca Marcus (13:15):
Even if you can do it yourself.
April Snow (13:17):
But when asking for help and yeah.
Do you see that when you'rehelping clients in the dating
process, that they often are theones doing a lot of the
emotional labor in therelationships, or giving maybe
more than they're receiving,getting stuck in that role?
Rebecca Marcus (13:37):
Yeah, I mean it depends, I guess, on what stage
they're at if they're in arelationship, versus if they are
going on dates, single.
But yeah, definitely see womenthat it's a little scary to be
vulnerable or wanting to kind ofcontrol a lot of aspects or,
you know, wanting beingvulnerable and then feeling like
(13:59):
nervous about it afterwards.
Or, yeah, I tell people whenthey're very anxious about
meeting someone, they haven'tmet someone yet.
You know it doesn't end onceyou meet the person like all the
stuff is going to come up too.
It's kind of like a mirror.
So being able to be in tunewith that, understand what's
your stuff with theirs, how do Icommunicate it?
you know, where are differencesin what we need and you know,
(14:22):
even if you're dating anotherHSP like you might not always
have the same needs at the sametime or exactly the same
preferences.
April Snow (14:30):
That's true.
That's really a good reminderthat even two HSPs are going to
have differences to work throughand might be going at different
paces.
Rebecca Marcus (14:40):
Yeah, such a good reminder.
April Snow (14:41):
Yeah, you mentioned earlier about burnout.
We talked about this alreadyoff the recording.
But just how burnout can alsoshow up in dating, which we only
hear about burnout in workright.
Could you say more about thatexperience of burnout in dating?
Rebecca Marcus (14:59):
Well, it's interesting because I guess I
got interested in likemindfulness and burnout after
working in agency, transitioninginto private practice, but also
seeing how you could still beburnt out in the private
practice, and so I'm a speakerfor like PE lectures on burnout
and the helping profession andso just noticing some of the as
(15:21):
I had created that before Ireally niched onto dating, I saw
a lot of overlap and some ofthe things that I had been
through.
I mean, it's been a bit of timesince I was like in that dating
world but like initially what Iwas doing and then seeing what
wasn't working and then thingsthat I shifted and then seeing
clients coming in when they werein this place of just
(15:43):
misalignment and not really, youknow, intentional, versus the
ones that were yeah, and so Iwas like, oh, okay, like it's,
it's pretty similar and some ofthe strategies that you would
use to help are also kind ofsimilar to and just sort of this
interconnection of everythingand also sometimes how we could
hide.
(16:03):
But I guess the differencesometimes like hiding behind
work professionally like you can, I don't know.
I feel like the personal andprofessional.
It's like we want to haveboundaries but they also like go
back to one another.
April Snow (16:14):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah Right, I mean these twoare they easily overlap, right,
the things that?
You're seeing in dating versuswork.
You know putting so much intoit.
If I'm let's say I'm in thedating process, what would lead
me to burnout in that?
What are some of the thingsthat you see like what am I
(16:34):
doing that could make me feelburned out in my dating life
versus work?
Rebecca Marcus (16:39):
so specifically for HF or anyone, really I'm
just yeah, yeah.
Well, okay.
So I guess I would think that'sa clarify, because I think I
would say when you're going onway too many dates and it's not
with people that are alignedlike they're not a good fit,
whether that means they don'thave the same like values or
(17:01):
like a vision for what they want, or they're just kind of.
It's just not like personalitywise or it's uncomfortable.
You don't really want to bethere but you went and you feel
bad, like some of that stuff.
But sometimes I have found,definitely for HSPs and more
introverted, I definitely saylike just less is more.
(17:22):
But there are some people maybethat are a little bit more
extroverted that sometimes, ifthey're a little anxious
socially in terms of going outto them, just going out on a few
dates to kind of like getthings moving, can be helpful.
So I think it's again it's liketuning into yourself, though,
and sort of knowing, but Idefinitely think going out with
(17:42):
people just because like likethrowing spaghetti at the wall
when you don't actually reallyknow what you value or what you
need, what your needs, are whatworked in the last relationship
what did?
it what are maybe like kind ofblind spot or there's a sense of
urgency, because maybe we feellonely or we feel like, oh, my
friend just got engaged, orthey're married, or you know,
(18:04):
like you see a lot of thecomparison.
And so I think when we're inlike a place of kind of scarcity
or like urgency and we stay inthat and keep taking like I need
to do more and more and more, Ithink that can definitely cause
burnout.
April Snow (18:18):
Sure, especially if you see others around you
meeting milestones in arelationship, either starting a
relationship, getting married,maybe having kids, and then
chronically maybe feeling likeyou're behind.
Rebecca Marcus (18:30):
I work with a lot of clients that are in that
space.
April Snow (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that urgency amps way up,
and then we're maybe pushingourselves beyond our capacity
for dating.
Rebecca Marcus (18:42):
And also I think I use a lot of.
I mean, I'm integrative, Ithink, as you are too, but stuff
around nervous systemregulation and then also secure
attachment like healingattachment, and it's like when
we're in a place where we'reburnt out and anxious and we go
on a date we're not going to,we're not really in a place
(19:02):
where we're safe and connectedto really.
You know, openly connect orshow up authentically or feel
like comfortable.
April Snow (19:11):
Yeah, that's true.
Rebecca Marcus (19:13):
You maybe need to do some grounding, some
regulating first, so you can beclear-headed enough to think how
am I feeling, how am Iconnecting with this person
exactly in the moment and alsoahead of time meeting at a place
that like also works for you,like if you have a super long
day and it's one thing if you'vebeen seeing someone and you're
(19:34):
really excited, but you're kindof meeting on first seats and
it's like that's not reallyconvenient for me, but I guess
I'll go or like that's far Idon't really, but but I
personally I'm just like oh okay, I'll pick a place right near
me.
If it's not good, then I givemyself a time.
When I started doing that, Ifelt more like okay, well, I
went.
And then I think also sometimesagain that quality over
(19:56):
quantity, like really tuning in,okay, well, what is it that
they actually need?
What are my needs in arelationship?
And being clear on what arelike arbitrary things that are
it's like based on an image,that like, is that really going
to be a trait that meets a needof yours, or it's just sort of a
status about how it'll lookexternally or something that.
But it's good to have our ownstandards.
But I kind of encourage peopleto look within and think about
(20:20):
that and to be confident inknowing that.
And I recommend do a call withsomebody before you meet them,
like if you can bet people,because less is more, and I
think people get into like, oh,I'm going to miss out, and I
this is where I think like thespirituality and letting go
piece is.
I find releasing thatexpectation and like attachment
to the outcome to be okay, butlike you're being intentional
(20:44):
about it, so like you're justfiltering it out.
If it doesn't work out, okay,you're just getting closer to
the next one, and when you're inthat place of alignment, it
just comes.
I mean people always like tohear that, and so it's the more
we tune into our knowing, like I, like I don't know just I
really enjoyed all of the stuffI've seen with your work of even
(21:05):
just knowing your schedule, orwhen you need a pause, or when
you need a moment to regulate,or maybe you need time to
yourself, or maybe that's goingto be too much for you and
putting yourself into a placewhere you're first filled up and
regulated and then going out,dating or even showing up in a
relationship.
I tell people you don't throwthese skills out the window,
(21:25):
like, once you're in arelationship, you still have to
be throwing up your cupregulating your nervous system
communicating your needs, Likeyeah.
April Snow (21:34):
Yeah, everything you're saying really resonates
because you need to take careand consider your nervous system
, your needs and the equation ofdating.
I love it You're saying like,familiarize yourself with where
you're going, pick somewherethat's close.
Maybe that'll help minimize anyanxiety or energy that it takes
to go on these dates If you cansave some of that bandwidth.
And then, yeah, giving yourselftime to process, vet these
(21:55):
people.
It's okay to say no.
It's okay to trust your gut ifsomething's not feeling good.
You don't have to like datearbitrarily just to meet a
certain threshold or somethinglike that.
Rebecca Marcus (22:05):
Yeah, and I think that also the same goes
with.
It's definitely good to havesome outside guidance, but I
think it's like being moreintentional with not asking a
million different people,because that can also cause some
burnout or like confusion.
So people that you trust, trustthat you respect, they
understand you, you're able tohave conversations, um, I think
(22:27):
that helps too.
Yeah, just having a supportsystem throughout the process
yeah and yeah, and I mean in mypractice we also do like some
dating group, like group therapy, kind of psychoeducation,
because I have found that also,like you're saying, the feeling
of isolation people can feel alot and so if you're like I just
need to meet someone becauseeveryone else has someone, you
(22:49):
can also start to like you'renot really tuned into what you
actually need right.
April Snow (22:55):
So just coming back to yourself and having other
people that are like-minded.
Rebecca Marcus (23:00):
They have the same intention.
They get it like you feel.
Okay.
I definitely found for myself,having at least a few supportive
you know, platonic friends,that safe relationships and we
could support each other made adifference could you say a
little bit more about?
April Snow (23:17):
what does that look like?
Is that checking in before,after dates, dates?
Is that getting advice?
What does that look like?
Rebecca Marcus (23:23):
Yeah, I guess a bit of both, and also knowing
that having people to do thingswith outside of just dating and
feeling supported yeah, likeencouraging each other, looking
out for each other.
I feel like that was helpfulfor me personally and I've seen
with my clients which is why Icreated the dating groups was
(23:43):
the ones that had more likepositive friends aligned, I
guess.
Like in the same page as whatfelt like support.
It was a lot easier to feelrelaxed about dating versus
people that felt like they wereall alone and that feeling of
loneliness and then that likeurgency, I have to meet someone.
I think it was harder.
April Snow (24:04):
Right right when.
If you have friends in yourcorner it kind of softens that
urgency yeah, like some kind ofcommunity right.
Yeah, how amazing that you'redoing groups.
I mean, that is such a goodsupport yeah, it's fun for me
too.
Rebecca Marcus (24:18):
I ran a lot of groups when I worked in
addiction treatment and I thinkI just put something a little
different about group energy.
April Snow (24:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm curious Is that somethingyou only offer for folks that
are in New York, or is itsomething that is online?
Rebecca Marcus (24:31):
Well, we have like psychoeducation, ones that
are more general to people outof state, and then there's I'm
also listening to Florida and myassociate is New York and New
Jersey, so for like the moreprocess groups and people in
state, but then we have likepsychoeducation where it's like
workshops and stuff like that.
Yeah, so it's been fun, yeah,and it's really nice Like I
(24:55):
think also kind of thesynchronicity that you see, the
synergy and things that you seein a group is inspiring it
really is.
Yeah, you tend to see your ownexperience show up when you see
in a group is inspiring.
April Snow (25:03):
It really is.
Yeah, you tend to see your ownexperience show up when you're
in community.
Rebecca Marcus (25:09):
Yeah, I love that.
April Snow (25:11):
So I have a listener question for you, if you're
open to it.
So this is about once you're inrelationship and this person
says you know, relationships areso important, as we both know.
Rebecca Marcus (25:28):
But the time and the energy needed to sustain
them can be really overwhelming.
April Snow (25:31):
You know, when you're dealing with life,
friendships, family.
How do we find the energy tomaintain these romantic
relationships or build arelationship?
If you're in the dating process, when you're more sensitive and
maybe have less capacity, howdo we find the time and energy
for a relationship?
Rebecca Marcus (25:46):
That's a really good question.
It sounds very reflective, youknow, self-reflective.
So I think it's definitelytuning into when you're depleted
and still filling up your owncup and recognizing that the
relationship, like your partner,is not going to be able to fill
every single role for you Somestuff is you have to take care
(26:08):
of.
Some stuff might be a friend orlike going to a yoga class or
something else.
And then I think beingintentional about making time to
connect, but also recognizingwhether or not your partner is
highly sensitive or not,recognizing whether or not your
partner is highly sensitive ornot, but kind of talking about
like hey, these are things thatsometimes I need a little more
(26:28):
time or I was a little toosocial, like just communicating,
I think, our expectations andneeds and having an open
dialogue with both people.
April Snow (26:40):
So important isn't it?
Rebecca Marcus (26:58):
Yeah, so important, isn't it?
Different things, you know,like okay, maybe we need to
schedule a babysitter for thisdate night, like, let's put our
phones away for this dinner, theshow, certain things, like
being intentional about it,because they think we with life
is overstimulating andoverwhelming and there's a lot
of stuff that we have.
So finding that time to be ableto ground and even doing some
(27:21):
things, like together that aregrounding, yeah, but I think
paying attention if you feeldepleted, like maybe it's just
also thinking about maybe whatcan we simplify or clear out a
little that's not as essentialthat might be causing, like, an
energy drain yeah right, justlooking at, what do we need to
either sustain ourselves or comeback together in relationship,
(27:43):
and also like going back to do.
Both people have a shared visionand shared expectations of the
relationship, because if that'smismatched, yeah, yeah, right,
that's a big deal.
April Snow (27:57):
Yeah, and I know people.
Rebecca Marcus (27:59):
it's vulnerable, especially in today's dating
culture, sometimes to own, likewhat you want, or to be with the
fear of owning people that arelike, oh, I'm just looking for
something casual.
But then before they just toldme they're like, well, he said
he just wants to see, and I'mlike, but you just told me you
really want a commitment or aserious relationship.
So it's a fear of like, well, Idon't want to get rid of what I
(28:21):
have, because then I'd reallybe alone.
Or sometimes maybe somebody'slike, they do like the person,
but maybe it feels like there'sfalse intimacy building or a lot
of texting up front before youreally met or a little love
bombing Not that it's always bad, but sometimes we get excited
with our hormones and chemistryand so I think, sometimes
slowing it down if it does feelintense, and noticing that and
(28:43):
kind of being more in tune, justyou know, based on this person
asking themselves well, how muchtime do you want to put into it
?
Is it the priority for you?
Kind of exploring your own.
April Snow (28:52):
Yeah, that's a great inquiry too.
How much do you want versus howmuch is expected and what's
realistic?
Yeah, these are great questions.
I think there is a lot ofpressure to do relationships in
a certain way.
Rebecca Marcus (29:05):
I know, and I think it is a combination of,
like our families, differentgenerations.
As we look at all the cycles ofintergener gratification, I
think we have kind of beenabsorbed a lot into the dating
(29:28):
culture.
Um yep, but in general, justthe things that we see on tv and
movies I mean, I've watched allof them too.
They're fun.
But I think having somedistinguishing that like that's
a 45 minute episode or whatever,that's like an hour and a half
movie, like after they gettogether.
There's work that has like youknow, they don't just live
happily ever after, right workand even in terms of like sex
(29:52):
and intimacy and some of the, Ithink, expectations or things as
relationships change or thingsare stressful or there's not
times, and kind of justnormalizing that things up and
flow and that it's an ongoingthing and yeah, it's not a fairy
tale.
April Snow (30:07):
I think you talk about this a lot like the
rom-coms or the Disney movies,where everything looks a certain
perfect way.
That's not reality at all.
Rebecca Marcus (30:16):
Right.
I mean I think you can havemoments where you feel you know
I don't mean to say it in a waythat like it's not something
that's meaningful, but I thinkit's like in general real life,
I guess, like this person isasking does have different
stressors or responsibilities,or you're tired or you're not
feeling.
Well, you know.
(30:36):
So I think it's also learninghow do we kind of coexist and
co-regulate and navigate it like, communicate it and ultimately
thinking about when you'redating.
That I mean depending on whatgoals are, because I don't it
like that's what I always peopleclarify your own goal, like if
somebody wants to be casual or,you know, conventional
non-monogamy, or I mean itreally depends.
(30:58):
I took my population I'm workingwith is more like monogamous,
um, commitment, so.
But again, it's like somepeople want kids and people
don't.
Some people could go either wayand even those kind of things
can definitely, you know, ifyou're not aligned with it.
So I think just clarifying foryourself is important too and
then thinking about like, okay,well, this is like a long-term
(31:19):
thing.
I'm also going to want toprioritize traits of a perk in
50, 60 years, like someone whocommunicates well, someone who's
thoughtful, someone who canlisten someone who doesn't have
a short fuse or yeah, that's agreat inquiry what type of
person I would spend the nextmultiple decades of my life with
, and what would be a fit for meand I guess it sounds almost
(31:42):
like that's what I'm saying.
It's like whatever works foreach person.
It's not that I force that onanyone, but I think a lot of
people are saying that they'reseeing this in in movies but
they're not registering like ohright, exactly, yeah, the
different pieces of puzzle.
April Snow (31:58):
As we we get closer to wrapping up, I'm wondering if
there's anything we've left outthat feels important to share
with folks that are listeningabout dating relationships.
Rebecca Marcus (32:07):
As a sensitive person, I think, remembering
because even I think my husbandis relatively more sensitive I
made him read the HSP book, theJudith Orr.
But we're're also different andwe have sometimes different
preferences on what we want.
Or some might be similar, butwe might want alone time at
(32:28):
different times, or we might youmight want affectionate time
when I don't, or like vice versa.
And I think you know, obviouslywe're like a line, but maybe
one person is triggered bysomething or it's not discussed
and that I think sometimes beingnervous speaker needs or this
illusion of like our partnershould know but they don't know.
And so I think, tuning in,learning about your traits and
(32:52):
what you need.
Even I'm like, can we turn offthese overhead lights?
It's not as sensitive to themas I get started.
I'm like I just need a littleof the overhead light.
I'm over-stimulated right now.
Everyone, everyone's different,so that's why I think it's just
communicating it and, again,like bringing in, like
attachment, which I styled.
I really feel are kind of fluidpersonally, but being even like,
(33:16):
oh, like I feel nervous if Idon't hear from you all day,
even though I have my what myfriend, it's like my husband's
always.
He never texts, but he hatestexting.
He doesn't like to really be onthe phone so he's not always
paying attention, but it's kindof her being like but I feel
anxious not hearing from you, socould you let me know you're
not going to be outCommunicating things like that
(33:37):
and then knowing for ourselveswhen it's like, okay, I'm
irritated, I need to.
I'm not expecting someone toread your mind.
Yeah, we do.
April Snow (33:51):
I think, though, because we are very perceptive
as HSPs, and I think a lot oftimes we want or we hope that
other people will do the same.
But even when you have two HSPstogether, there's still
communication that needs tohappen moment to moment, even if
you're perfectly aligned onyour values and everything
else's no things, and I thinkthat's also it's like the myth
(34:14):
of the one or whatever.
Rebecca Marcus (34:15):
That it's like oh, even with the rate percent,
it'll never be hard and itdoesn't mean it's not meaningful
and it's not like rewarding andit's not the right person
sometimes it's not, but yeah, Ithink having more of that, like
this fluid kind of like, okay,it's gonna ebb and flow Like
each day we're tuning into ourneeds, we're regrounding, yeah,
just creating some of our ownspace.
(34:37):
And I mean I think even I seethis like people talk a lot
about mom burnout too which isnot my specialty, but I
definitely.
when I became a new mom, Idefinitely felt that and I think
that some of that of like nowmy daughter's in daycare and I
feel like I have my own time,and there can be feelings of
like guilt or like, oh, I'mexercising, I'm doing this, but
then I'm showing up like morefilled up for her, and I think
(34:58):
it's similar with a romanticpartner right, filling up
yourself, so then you havesomething to bring into the
relationship and also the energyto communicate needs,
boundaries, whatever it is.
April Snow (35:12):
Yeah, expectations, expectations, yeah.
It seems like a lot of whetheryou're dating, whether you're in
a relationship, is reallysupporting yourself and then
really getting in touch withwhat your needs, your values,
expectations are.
I think these really corepieces.
Rebecca Marcus (35:36):
And I feel like that's also.
I think it's buying the stuffthat's not so aligned.
So, whether it's extra stuff onyour calendar that's like, oh,
it just feels like I'm drainedall the time and I don't have
time for a relationship, ormaybe going out with people.
That's not aligned, yeah.
April Snow (35:56):
And needing to be thoughtful about that with your
limited energy and bandwidth.
Rebecca Marcus (36:03):
Yeah, and I definitely have seen on your
things.
At least that you talk about isjust normalizing it for
yourself, like, okay, this is mycapacity and like, with that,
why do I want to prioritize?
And you know, I think sometimeswe can feel frustrated and I've
seen you say that a lot and Ilike your surveys and you say
like how many, what's yourcaseload, that you're
(36:24):
comfortable with, Like you know,and even the comparison that we
do to other people, or likeyeah, we could ask ourselves the
same question with how manydates can you go on a week?
April Snow (36:35):
So I have some clients that feel like they need
to go on 10 dates a week tokeep up and give themselves the
best chance.
I'm like, well, let's take alook, is that actually
sustainable?
Rebecca Marcus (36:44):
Yeah, I know, it's that scarcity mindset.
I've had my one friend the sameone now when she was dating,
but the one I said about, likethe husband, doesn't like to be
on his phone, he doesn't evenhave a smartphone Like he.
Just he didn't, yeah, but Iremember she got like a lot of
dates but she was like moreextroverted and she liked it.
So that's what I'm saying, kindof knowing yourself.
(37:05):
Knowing yourself, but if it'sfor a person and it feels like
they're still coming in likethis.
It's kind of like okay, is thisactually helping?
April Snow (37:13):
right, because if you're showing up to dates
dysregulated, maybe resentfulfor being there, but you think
you should that's not gonna gowell, yeah, exactly yeah, yeah,
thank you for all this.
I mean, I think it's a reminderfor sensitive folks to honor
your needs even in dating, and alot of the ways that you're
taking care of yourself in yourpersonal life at work can also
(37:34):
show up in your relationships.
There's a lot of crossoverwhich I hadn't really put
together, and I reallyappreciate the burnout piece
because that's, I think, reallyimportant for us to think about
how can we make datingsustainable and fulfilling and
our relationships.
Rebecca Marcus (37:47):
Yeah, and I think also that you were saying
just in terms of your own careerand pivoting, and I think,
looking at relationships anddating and our lives, as you
know, we want to have somestructure and direction, but
kind of knowing that it's goingto be a little bit fluid and it
will ebb and flow, and having tochecking in with ourselves.
(38:08):
Yeah, yeah, what?
April Snow (38:09):
just as a maybe a final thought.
What could checking in withourselves?
Yeah, yeah, what?
Just as a maybe a final thoughtwhat could checking in with
ourselves?
In dating look like Is theresomething that you've done or
you share with clients as a wayto take a baseline.
Rebecca Marcus (38:22):
So I guess how you feel on the date, like are
you feeling comfortable?
Do you feel like conversationflowing?
Are you feeling heard?
Heard, you know, are theylistening?
Yeah, just giving yourself alittle time after, like you
don't always have to immediatelycall someone, just letting it
settle for a little bit.
Or also, if it's really feelinguncomfortable, and like to
(38:46):
trust that too yes, exactly,give yourself time to process as
an HSP.
April Snow (38:52):
It might not be apparent in the moments, but
also using all the nonverbalinformation, you're picking up
the emotion, what's happeningbetween the lines, how you feel
when you're with that person.
There's a lot of informationthere that you could use Totally
.
Rebecca Marcus (39:08):
Yeah, and I think also still taking time to
do other things that are fun orenjoyable for yourself, like
self-care right, don't throweverything else out to date,
don't lose yourself.
April Snow (39:23):
I just want to thank you so much for this
conversation.
I feel like thank you so much.
It was so wonderful, it was sofun.
So I know I'll be sure to shareyour website, your Instagram.
I know you have a freemeditation for folks who are in
the dating process, so I'llshare all that in the show notes
.
Rebecca Marcus (39:41):
Okay, wonderful.
Thank you so much, April.
April Snow (39:52):
Thanks so much for joining me and Rebecca for
today's conversation.
What I hope you will rememberis that you can go at your own
pace when dating or starting arelationship, and that your
needs are just as valid as yourpartner's.
Just don't forget to let themknow what those needs are.
And for more support in thedating process, you can visit
Rebecca's website for a freemeditation and support groups.
(40:14):
Links are in the show notes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
(40:34):
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.