November 19, 2024 • 58 mins
Do you feel overwhelmed by your emotions or struggle to communicate your experience as an HSP? In this episode, I talk with Lucy Sherman, LPC about expressing yourself through creativity and:
• How to use card decks and creative prompts as part of your reflection and self-care practice
• Understanding and nurturing your rich inner life through images and metaphor from nature, photographs, and cards
• Soothing your nervous system and finding safety by connecting inward
Lucy is a Licensed Professional Counselor, EMDR Certified Therapist and a Highly Sensitive Person herself in Portland, OR. Lucy has always felt deeply with others and has brought creativity into every part of her life both as a tool to explore her experience and in connecting with others. Lucy feels honored to do this therapeutic work helping Highly Sensitive Folks reflect and process trauma while also tapping into their intuition, imagination, creativity, humor and hope. Through Therapy Intensives there is space to explore outside of talking and weave in creative expression, oracle cards with EMDR while getting to the root of what is stuck and finding relief, lightness and a new compassion for all versions of self. Outside of sessions, you can find Lucy in the forest with her Basset mix Penny, creating with loved ones or gushing over a favorite deck.
Keep in touch with Lucy:
• Website: https://www.perceptivecounselingpdx.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/perceptive_counseling
Resources Mentioned:
• Therapy Magic Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapy-magic/id1676794458
• Therapy Intensives: https://www.perceptivecounselingpdx.com/emdr-intensives
• Creative Consultation for Therapists: https://www.perceptivecounselingpdx.com/method-page-1-1
• Light Seer’s Tarot Deck: https://lightseerstarot.com
• Amy Maricle Slow Drawing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM2KmGwTNhI
• Draw Yourself Calm by Amy Maricle: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9
Thanks for listening! You can read the full show notes and sign up for my email list to get new episode announcements and other resources at:
https://www.sensitivestories.com
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- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sensitivestrengths
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lucy Sherman (00:00):
In the past I could really take in some of the
energy or loudness or intensity.
If I'm also releasing as wellinto watercolor, into painting,
me being observer, taking inemotions while doing something
grounding, doing somethingreleasing, and so for me it's
(00:20):
always been there, that creativepart.
It's always been there, thatcreative part.
So doing art still to this dayfeels incredibly grounding and
incredibly expressive.
April Snow (00:40):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(01:02):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withLucy Sherman about using
creativity, imagery, metaphorand card decks to release and
express your emotions in a safeway.
Lucy is a licensed professionalcounselor and an EMDR certified
therapist in Portland, oregon.
Lucy has always felt deeply withothers and has brought
(01:23):
creativity into every part ofher life, both as a tool to
explore her experiences andconnecting with others.
Lucy feels honored to do thistherapeutic work, helping highly
sensitive folks like herselfreflect and process trauma,
while also tapping into theirintuition, imagination,
creativity, humor and hope.
Imagination, creativity, humorand hope.
(01:47):
Through therapy intensives,there is a space to explore
outside of talking and weavingcreative expression, oracle
cards and EMDR, while getting tothe root of what is stuck and
finding relief, lightness and anew compassion for all versions
of self.
Outside of sessions, you canfind Lucy in the forest with her
Basset, mixed Penny, creatingwith loved ones or gushing over
(02:08):
a favorite deck.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind-the-scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
(02:31):
treatment with mental health ormedical professional.
Let's dive in so lissy.
(02:54):
Could you start off by tellingus your hsp discovery story, how
, when you realize that you're ahighly sensitive person?
Lucy Sherman (03:03):
yeah.
So I actually did a little bitof exploring of this last night,
just kind of noticing and forme exploring can be with cards,
so I actually pulled a card tojust notice what is that like
first time really connectingwith that, like, oh, I'm
sensitive, and the one was threeof cups and and it was three
(03:28):
women that just looked like justreally close friends in the
image and it really reminded meof like I've always known
through friendship, I've alwaysknown through relationships with
others, and in the beginning Ifelt like there was a lot of
nurturing of my sensitivity andfeeling like very much like the
(03:50):
connections I had as a youngchild with others.
Like I always felt like veryconnected, noticing others'
experiences, observing but thepeople around were also in that
way too, and so there is likethis warmth and connection there
and that creativity and thelike playing with fairy houses
(04:13):
and being in the garden, lovinglittle smells and not loving
really strong things or notloving a certain scratchy or
like face cloth and like all ofthat, but just that
understanding.
But then I felt like in fourthgrade I really noticed it more
of like oh, not everyone aroundme is sensitive like this and I
(04:38):
can be told I'm too sensitiveand I can be bullied for it or
that kind of feeling.
So I felt like I've always kindof known and there is this way,
it's like been nurtured.
And then later on it was like,oh, actually, this is different
and this is maybe like I canfeel more overwhelmed.
(05:00):
Or when things are faster, likein school, is a required of me
or the world, there's actuallyharder things that I'm seeing,
like all of that just feeling itso heavily.
So it was kind of, yeah, thatquestion just noticing, yeah,
that the earlier sensitivity isokay and then, little by little,
(05:21):
yeah, it's shifting.
April Snow (05:23):
Yeah, it really does happen in a relationship, does
it when we have that mirror?
I hadn't really thought aboutthat before, but that's when we
see it, when we're having thingsreflected back, yeah, yeah, and
how beautiful to have thatfoundation of acceptance and
nurturing around yoursensitivity before going out
into the world and then gettingthose messages.
(05:45):
I think that we've all heard atsome point of too sensitive,
but how beautiful to hear thatthere was those playing with
fairy houses and being in thegarden and just sharing.
It sounds like there werepeople in your life that you got
to share your sensitivity with.
Lucy Sherman (06:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and like honored.
So people pointing out, oh, youreally connected with that
stranger or that new friend, oryou went out of your way there
to explore this little flowerwith a new person in preschool,
or something like that kind ofnoticing.
But then later on that likewhoa, things are heavy, or this
(06:23):
is hard, and then that extendingon of oh, this is actually
there's not.
Like everyone isn't exactlylike this, or other people are
totally okay with the busynessand like almost want it.
Right, that's true.
April Snow (06:40):
Thank you, but beautiful that you got to
highlight the gifts ofsensitivity early on, instead of
having to try to weed throughthe difficulties later to find
it.
It seems like did it stay inyour awareness, the gifts, or
did it fade as other people cameinto your life?
Lucy Sherman (07:03):
Yeah, I feel like there was places where it felt
okay to really show myself inrelationships and that's
throughout life, knowing theseare the ones that I can really
share those sensitivities orreally ask for things to meet my
sensitive needs.
But then there's others thatjust feel like, oh, I really,
like I don't show it and it kindof fades in those and I felt
(07:25):
like there was a lot of time,kind of more middle school, high
school, all of that, where itjust started to be like, oh, I
have to just meet other people'sneeds or the things that I need
need to be on the back burner,or, yeah, their people are
prioritized, and so that feelingof like, oh, I'm that's
actually fading away.
April Snow (07:46):
Some, yeah, yeah, right as you start to prioritize
other people instead ofyourself.
Is that in an effort to kind offit in as you're going through
your adolescence, or is theresomething else happening that
empathy coming through?
Or I'm curious what washappening for you there?
Lucy Sherman (08:04):
Yeah, I think it was definitely the fitting in
and also kind of went from likesmaller environments to bigger
environments, so like a way,bigger school and that kind of
difference too.
And so there's multiple peopleto start like, oh, where do I
belong, what do I do do?
And then also with that, justlike they're, yeah, seeing
(08:28):
people having harder times orlike really, yeah, coping with
really big life things and sobeing there, but with that not
being there as much for myselflike.
April Snow (08:42):
I just think of you maybe getting deluded in these
bigger crowds versus being youngand just being able to really
center around your needs andyour sensitivity.
Yeah, it's easier to loseourselves when other people's
needs are coming more into theforefront totally.
Lucy Sherman (09:02):
I think there's also like noticing that, being
observed or being watched that'ssuch a difference too and so
different experiences wheremaybe I was more like judged or
yeah, or just being in some waylike you're different or you're
(09:22):
not enough, you're not as smart,like all of that kind of coming
together and processing butalso trying to take in because
there was so long of taking inand it being like okay, like
it's okay to take in, and thenwell, actually there's things to
like filter Right.
April Snow (09:40):
That's true.
Right At the beginning you getto be kind of this open vessel
and then realizing oh wait, Imight need to discern what to
take in and what not to take in.
I love that idea of like oh, Ineed to put up a filter here,
it's too much to take this allin, were taking more in.
(10:02):
I'm curious what were younoticing for yourself?
Were you more overwhelmed?
Lucy Sherman (10:15):
Were you feeling other people's emotions?
What was happening as you wentinto this other phase?
Definitely a lot more.
Yeah, feeling other people'semotions and of course I'll
caretaker role in different ways, even if it wasn't asked of me.
But then it kind of started tobe like, oh well, lucy will be a
sounding board, yeah, that kindof thing.
So at first, yeah, very muchlike feeling into others'
emotions and then also withoutbeing so overwhelmed with that
(10:37):
too, or feeling like, yeah, justlike other people being able to
move on from intenseexperiences or little situations
that would happen out ofcontrol, and me just feeling
very much like, oh, this isstill really intense.
Experienced you in like littlewords of a caretaker just
(11:03):
sticking in my mind or likedeeply connected at times with
friends sticking in my mind.
April Snow (11:09):
But then there's also that, yeah, that total
overwhelm and body feeling itand yeah, yeah, yeah, it really
does stick with us, no matterwhat's happening, whether it's
uncomfortable and difficult,edgygy, or if it's beautiful and
meaningful, all of it sticksaround and needing time with
(11:31):
that and it's.
It can be hard when you seeother people bouncing back so
quickly or moving on so quickly.
It's like how do we find thattime to slow down and to be
different, to filter, filter todiscern Sounds like you.
Really, you went from beingvery open and moving forward to
maybe needing to maybe pull backa little bit.
Yeah.
Lucy Sherman (11:54):
I feel that too, like different, like
relationships too.
That may be at first like ohyeah, this is just how it is,
and then that kind of actuallythis is a lot more like loudness
, or this is a lot more energy,or this is yeah.
So that kind of feeling of nowI need to like do something in
my system, as like I really needto pull back?
April Snow (12:18):
Yes, as you've gone through and, you know, had these
experiences.
What have you found issupportive for you as a
sensitive person?
What do you bring in?
Lucy Sherman (12:31):
Yeah, so much I feel like too.
That's just always been there.
So I feel like watercolor doingjust anything art related
creative, just anything artrelated creative, and that's
also been a way that in the pastI feel like even younger years
(12:51):
I could really take in some ofthe energy or loudness or
intensity.
if I'm also releasing as wellinto watercolor, into painting,
listening to conversations thatmaybe were a little bit more
intense in family, but then mebeing kind of like observer,
taking in emotions while doingsomething grounding, doing
something releasing, and so forme it's always been there, that
(13:15):
kind of, yeah, that likecreative part.
So doing art still to this dayjust feels incredibly grounding
and incredibly expressive and away to really see myself too.
Also, like looking at middleschool and high school art and
everything.
There's just this kind of likeoh, those are times that I could
(13:37):
really see myself, even if Iwas trying to go into all of
these different likerelationships or mask a little
bit more, try to be this orchameleon, like all of that.
I really there were times ofstill being with myself or, yeah
, really seeing myself in a waythat, yeah, that other things,
(14:00):
like I couldn't do as much, oryeah.
So art has always been there.
That's like watercolor, acrylicpainting, drawing, and it can
just be like playing with colortoo.
It does not, yeah, and so Ifeel like there's that like
expressive part, and thenthere's also that really
grounding part, and there's alsothat really like needing
(14:22):
emotion out and there was onepost that you made a while back
just around, like movement, likewith excitement and stuff.
But there was something aboutthat that reminded me too of
different ways that I would movemy body when I was younger and
then now what that looks like.
But I yeah, there's just waysthat either way, that kind of
(14:43):
expression whether, yeah,movement, dancing, even to this
day, writing, drawing being innature, all of that just feels
so soothing yeah, creativity canmanifest in many ways.
April Snow (14:59):
Yeah, and I love that.
You said you can just putcolors on a page, play, play
with color.
It doesn't have to be anythingformal, and it sounds like
creativity was a through linefor you even before.
Maybe you realized how you wereusing it.
Yes, yeah, absolutely yeah,yeah, it's beautiful Just the
way you described it, as it'snot just this tactile expression
(15:23):
, it's grounding, it's findingyourself again.
I hadn't thought about this,but it is really moving emotion
through out of you onto the page, and there doesn't have to be
words.
Lucy Sherman (15:34):
Exactly.
Yeah, I feel like that too withthe not having words sometimes,
like having so much processingand everything but being able to
do that and like have thatspace on paper, and that there
isn't a way to mess up.
It's really just like this isyou and you can.
If you don't want to anyoneelse to see it, that's okay too,
and it's just like this is you,but it's a way to really settle
(15:58):
into yourself and then, littleby little, you start to have the
words, but you don'tnecessarily have to.
And I feel like in the past,being sensitive, I had some
people like caregivers in mylife who were very loquacious
like a lot of words and veryextroverted, and so being able
to, in those moments, have apause for myself and then share
(16:22):
and that being acceptable, likeoh, I'm just doing, and that
being acceptable, Like oh, I'mjust doing, you know, just doing
art, and then I'll share, butlisten and take it in and then
see where I'm at.
So it's always yeah, but Ididn't always know what I was
doing.
April Snow (16:38):
I think that's such a common experience.
I hear from sensitive folkswhether it was knowing they're
more sensitive or just leaninginto certain ways of living
before they even knew what theywere doing, just trusting that
intuition.
It's so beautiful, I love it.
And then it often will kind ofadapt and and change over time
as more awareness comes in.
(16:59):
But just having that space tonot have to have words and I
have to have it figured out,especially when we have so many
somatic experiences withsensitive people, there aren't
always words I found yes.
And so to have another outlet,and I love that.
You said you can't mess up.
There's no one right way to dothis.
You can just be in the processwith beautiful permission.
(17:23):
Yeah, I love that.
I'm curious.
You talked about using cardsand how you pulled a card for
this conversation and to thinkabout that, how can we use
imagery?
So we've talked about looselyart, but if we get more specific
with imagery and cards andother symbols, how can we use
(17:43):
that to support us in ourprocessing?
Oh, everywhere.
Lucy Sherman (17:46):
Everywhere.
Oh, I can't use that to supportus in our processing.
Oh, everywhere, I love it somuch.
Everywhere.
Oh, I can't wait, I love it,yeah.
So I feel I mean really justbeing able to sit with imagery
and we just being so like suchthis inner world, and have so
much creativity, and so to beable to create space for that
and then see things in new ways.
So I feel like a lot of thetime, like even exploring what
(18:09):
stands out and this can be on acard, this can be in a magazine,
this can be in like I did itthe other day where I didn't
have any cards or imagerybesides nature around and then
be like, okay, what is thismountain reflecting to me right
now, of, like how I'm feeling,or what is a message here, and
(18:29):
it's just that sense of really,yeah, that settling with it and
seeing things in a new way,where sometimes, if you're
really cognitive and really inthe words, we can get so like
this is just how it is, and sothere's a way to expand and play
, and then that, yeah, I feellike imagery can really give you
(18:50):
that chance of play.
Yeah.
April Snow (18:55):
Like you said, pull us out of the words, those
confines of the words,especially when we're having
such a nuanced, depthfulexperience.
The words do not do it justiceat all.
And I remember I worked with asomatic therapist years back and
every session we would startshe just had images that she had
cut out or printed, orphotographs or postcards that
(19:18):
she had found at the thriftstore and we would just use
those and it was really helpfulin kind of reconnecting with
myself.
Oh, I'm drawn to this image.
Then being curious, why am Idrawn to it?
Oh, I can't figure out what Iwant to say, but this image
speaks to what I'm feeling and Ilove the idea of taking that
(19:39):
practice.
You don't have to have cards oreven cutouts.
You can look outside, in yourenvironment, in your world.
A cloud, a mountain if you havemountains, a tree, an animal,
that's really beautiful, thatthat feels like.
It really opens up a lot for meas I hear you say that because
I had never considered that thatwe could take this practice out
(19:59):
into our into our worlds.
Lucy Sherman (20:01):
Anything, yeah, and just like.
What does it reflect to you?
And it's all about your ownexperience and that sense of
like.
Yeah, what is your bodysensation with that?
What is, yeah, what is thatlike intuition around the
message?
What is this connecting to aswell?
Like, maybe you see somethingand then all of a sudden, it
(20:23):
connects with, like anexperience you've had, and then
what about that experience?
That is like, why is thatcoming up now for you?
And then maybe there's been alesson there that you learned in
that experience and now it'shere.
So it's like this beautiful wayto expand the map it feels like,
and then also to just sit, yeah, together and just like have
(20:44):
that, yeah, that common languageas well.
So like to both, even if youdon't have the words, to both
see the same thing.
And from that, yeah, withfriends, with loved ones, and
sessions, all of that, but beingable to have this and also,
yeah, see each other.
It's a way of really seeingeach other, I feel like, but in
(21:05):
a way that can feel a little bitmore like safe, sometimes, or
comforting or less of just rightaway, vulnerable, yet still
very vulnerable.
April Snow (21:22):
Yeah, so yeah, it like just starting with you know
what does this bring up for me?
And then, how am I feelingabout this?
And what does that remind me of?
And all these questions justspill out and just reminds me of
our natural way of being asensitive people, how we make
connections in our minds and ourexperiences, and just allows us
to come home to ourselves andbe with our process.
(21:46):
And then how beautiful to beable to share that with someone
else without needing to figureout necessarily how to
communicate it if the wordsaren't there, and it could be an
opportunity to deepen.
We're both looking at thisbeautiful image and then maybe
being curious what does thatbring up for them?
Yes, this is really amazing tothink about how we could use
that yeah, I love it too as away to get creative as well.
Lucy Sherman (22:13):
so, most like if this one image happened to be a
creative exploration for myself,what would that be as well?
And so playing around with thatas well.
So turning what image you seeinto like an expression to from
there on onto paper again, solike one image turning into
(22:35):
another image that you createand then image expressing under
the page you mean it's lettingit inspire you to create your
own art or just play on the page.
Yeah, oh wow, yeah yeah, itcould.
April Snow (22:56):
It could really open up a lot, I imagine.
Yeah, and you spoke tosomething about it being safer.
I'm wondering if you could saymore about that.
How is working with imagerymaybe safer than working with
words or conversation?
Lucy Sherman (23:12):
Yeah.
So I feel like sometimes withwork, if you're just asked like
a question or something, it canfeel so direct or so intense or
almost like so pressure, butwith imagery there's that pause
and then also you can sharewhatever you want to share from
that and it's not necessary,like it can be, yeah, however
(23:34):
you're seeing it, but thereisn't this feeling of like this
is the only answer.
It's like, okay, I can see thispart and then I can also see
this part and and yeah, I thinkwith that space and then also
it's a lot of the time to if wehad really intense experiences
that like the part of our brainconnected with language can go
(23:56):
offline.
Express that way can just be somuch more comfortable and
actually not get us out intothis like fight, flight, freeze,
spawn and can yeah, it canreally like ground us.
April Snow (24:14):
That makes a lot of sense.
It just opens up a lot of roomto explore your experience and
have to come up with the perfectanswer response yeah,
especially because we oftendon't know what's going on until
we get in there and explore alittle bit.
And this offers, it seems like,a just a practice for doing
(24:35):
that.
Lucy Sherman (24:35):
See what's here exactly, yeah, I feel too,
because with that highlysensitive self and just how much
we see beauty and then also howmuch we see, yeah, kind of
those harder things as well, andhow we feel, but with the
beauty and a card too, just likebeing so just connected with
(25:00):
one particular color or onething, that really just elates
us Because there's a way to justreally zero in.
And then with imagery too, it'ssomething really safe that you
can just turn the page or go toa different card or decide not
to look at something.
So there's also choice thereand that also creates safety
(25:24):
when there's choice.
April Snow (25:25):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you get to decide and beelated or set a boundary.
Yeah, exactly, put it aside.
What a good practice for life.
Would you be open to walking azero card pool?
Lucy Sherman (25:46):
what that looks like yeah, I'd love you to.
April Snow (25:49):
Yeah, I know this might be new for some folks, or,
or, if you're like me, youmight have some cards that you
are still figuring out how tointeract with yes, I would love
to well, one thing I just loveis the way I mean with art, it's
just like there isn't a rightor wrong.
Lucy Sherman (26:06):
And I think sometimes if you're thinking
like, okay, oracle or tarotcards, imagery cards, it's like
there's only one meaning.
But no, it's all about what itbrings up for you.
And so, instead of it beinglike predictive and like, oh,
this is about future, this isreally about what do you notice
Projective, and like, oh, thisis about future, this is really
(26:27):
about what do you noticeprojective, what is it bringing
up for you today that maybetomorrow you notice a completely
different thing?
And like, what a fun thing tolook at the same card and see a
completely different thing basedon where you're at.
So that kind of mirror.
And then also knowing thereisn't like any bad cards,
they're all just ways to explore.
So, and also with that, there'sways that some folks will be
(26:51):
like, okay, I want to like learneverything about the cards
before and do all the learning,but so much of the learning can
happen in your own intuition.
And then exploring, okay, whatdoes the guidebook say?
So like playing around aroundyou with that, so you don't have
to know everything before youstart using them that's so
helpful to know that it can be avery personal experience.
April Snow (27:13):
You might want to read the guidebook if that
provides some safety structure,but you have to.
It's so personal and what abeautiful metaphor around our
emotions that it can change andit will change.
Yes, that's okay too.
Lucy Sherman (27:29):
Yeah, it can be wild to just yeah, to like pull
for certain times and then allof a sudden you have, yeah, this
whole different understandingand deepening and so yeah and
there can almost be like a waythat cards can be your friends
too, like that support and youcan.
Really there's choice in how youpull too.
(27:51):
So maybe you'll do likemessages from like past, present
, future, self and what I wantto notice, or maybe a message of
like energy of the day I wantto tap into, or how can I honor
my sensitive self right now,like it's just playing around
with questions that feel rightfor you.
April Snow (28:09):
So you can have different inquiries depending on
what's going on for you.
Lucy Sherman (28:13):
That day, exactly, yeah, so even that can be
incredibly creative and eventhough there isn't a right or
wrong way, it's just whatevercomes up for you yeah, so yeah,
maybe just noticing like whatwhat I'm feeling right now?
What kind of is happening rightnow in my world.
What I'm noticing?
April Snow (28:35):
as Lucy is pulling a card.
I just want to.
If you're listening to this andyou want to see the cards, you
can watch on YouTube.
That way, I'm sure it could benice to have a visual element as
we talk about imagery All thevisuals and imagery.
Exactly.
Lucy Sherman (28:49):
Yeah, I am pulling from the Lightseers Tarot right
now.
This is Chrisanne Donnelly.
She has some really incredible,just creative artwork and she
also on her website she has afree card pull.
So if you don't have your ownas well, it can be nice to just,
(29:11):
even on the go, be able to pulla card for free.
Oh, that's beautiful.
That can be really lovely, andthis is just a yeah, sweet, just
noticing, and there's plenty of, yeah, just really wonderful
imagery cards out here.
So I'm just kind of spreadingthem out and this is also part
of my noticing intuition,pausing, seeing what it feels
like where I'm at, and I'll justput my hands over the cards and
(29:33):
just notice anythingsomatically that kind of tells
me like, oh, this card, likewhat I'm noticing right now and
it's this one and I have no ideawhat it is.
There's also something reallypowerful about just that
spontaneity where you're justlike whatever this is, I don't
know what it is, and so it alsogets you out of this like, yeah,
(29:54):
the cognitive, like, oh, it hasto be this.
It's like, okay, so we have theking of cups beautiful card.
Yeah, and so for me, I'm justgoing to spend a moment and just
notice what first kind ofstands out to me.
And you can do this by maybejust noticing, like, okay, what
(30:17):
colors am I noticing or drawn toIf I'm looking at all the
details of the card, what is,yeah, just kind of drawing my
attention the most.
And this is just a person who'skind of in the water and flow
with this bowl that they're justmoving their hand towards.
(30:39):
So for me there's been a lotaround how to find space and
grounding and steadiness, evenif there is that up and down.
So even if there's like the ebband flow of business, the ebb
and flow of life, the intensity,the calmness, the discomfort
(31:01):
with some of those differentparts.
But this really just I see somuch and this is feeling more
where I'm at right now, whereaslast week I was feeling a little
bit more angsty, antsy and thatkind of like ending of summer
into fall feeling and I feellike also being sensitive.
We just are really connected tothe seasons and so for me, I
(31:25):
really see this glowing aroundthe head and then heart, and so
so much of this message of justdo what's in integrity and in
love and with, yeah, intention,and so seeing so much around
that heart, and for me there's alittle boat in the background
(31:48):
and with the boat in thebackground, it's just like
that's a strong boat.
It doesn't.
It's little boat, but it's likea little engine that could boat
.
Yeah, it just looks like it canjust weather the waves and
there are going to be waves.
So, and then there's alsosomething really beautiful with
the actual movement of the handtowards the bowl as well, and
(32:14):
this is this one just noticingthat, and there's actually I'm
noticing like a vibration thatthey're kind of creating.
So they're actually making avibration and sound that can
affect the water and with that,it's like what are different
ways right now?
For me, even if things feel outof control, or even if things
(32:36):
feel like that ebb and flow istoo much or anything like that,
what is a little thing that Ican do that still creates some
kind of vibration around thatstill, and so that like sharing
my love in all the differentways, whether that's in
friendships and relationship tomyself, anything like that but
(32:59):
using that kind of sharing ofcompassion, sensitive love,
seeing people, even if certainareas of my life I'm yeah, I
have a little bit more dormant.
So yeah there's something likethat, of like, how can I really
tune into that love?
And then how can I be steady inthe ebb and flow?
(33:24):
And then how can I create somekind of way of still affecting
my external environment?
April Snow (33:33):
So beautiful, just to see you go through that
process and all that it canbring up and letting it be
organic.
I see this part of the imageand it brings up this and this
other piece and so so, sopowerful to you, even just
seeing one image, which on thesurface it's a relatively simple
(33:54):
image for a card, because I'veseen ones that are a lot more
complex, but we're able to focuson the nuances, the ripple with
the finger in the water, theboat in the background, and this
is this, the like you said, theenergy coming off the car
that's emanating from the car,this peacefulness.
I love how you said you knowit's this ebb and flow and
(34:16):
alignment was coming up for me,just like the alignment between
head and the heart and how whatwe do ripples out and impacts
others, and just so much wecould just imagine.
Go on and on, exactly.
Yes, I'm wondering is okay, I'mjust thinking of my experience
as a sensitive person andobviously doing a practice like
(34:40):
this.
It's pretty straightforward onthe surface, but internally
there's a lot happening.
Yeah, it can be very evocative,a lot could come through.
So I'm just wondering if youhave any thoughts on just taking
care of ourselves as thesethoughts, emotions, other images
(35:01):
and memories come up as you'redoing a card, pull yeah.
Or working with an image yeah,yeah, what helps for you as
you're going through thispractice, taking care of
yourself with what comes up.
Lucy Sherman (35:14):
Something that, like I'll sometimes do if I'm
just noticing like, oh, I reallywant some extra support, is go
through and looking the other,so looking at all the images and
choosing a card beforehand thatconnects with a support, so
like this card is going tosupport me, this image is going
to support me in whatever I pullto.
(35:36):
And so, yeah, or you can connectwith beforehand of someone in
your life, real or imaginary,someone from a book, someone
from a movie, like anything,nature, anything that can hold
you when you do a pull, a cardpull, and then also with yeah,
with all of that, like againthat like choice piece, also
(35:58):
creating a space for you thatfeels comforting.
So maybe having a smell close bythat feels really comforting to
you, maybe your dog or, yeah,animal being sensitive to, maybe
something really soft, justcreating an environment that
feels comforting, environmentthat feels comforting.
And then also, if there is likemaybe you don't want to, maybe
(36:23):
you want to almost set a littletime in the beginning, like in
the beginning, you don'tnecessarily have to go straight
into, there's never a have towith this, it's all about your
own practice.
But if you feel like, oh, a lotcould be brought up if I have
an hour to do this, like whathappens if it's just one card
for the day, this feels like anice container of what's the
energy that I want to tap intotoday and then somehow see some
(36:46):
part of the card that resonateswith that.
So there's like creating theenvironment, also, anything of
comfort, also creating some kindof container, if that feels
good any way of expressing to,so maybe it taps into something
intense.
And then you can pull adifferent card and like, okay,
(37:07):
well, how is this gonna?
come up or maybe an expressionof writing, and just like really
vigorous writing and then likescrpling up the paper and or
ripping it or anything like that, but just that still gives you
a choice in it.
I think that's everything isabout you and your experience,
(37:27):
and then finding that resource,finding that container.
April Snow (37:32):
I love that everything is about you.
Yeah, this is maybe one of thespaces that we get to say that
if that's not available in a lotof places, this is up to you.
There's no one right way to dothis, it sounds like, and
bringing some intentionality totake care of yourself in it,
whether that's some type of ananchor, a person in a place and
(37:53):
real or imaginary taking care ofyour nervous system, have those
comforts of sensory supportsand maybe not needing to throw
yourself into the process, maybejust spending a few minutes,
and then it sounds like beingable to express whatever comes
through or change your mind orchange how you approach it.
(38:15):
Instead of pulling a card blind, it sounds like you could
choose a card totally morepredictable.
I love it.
Lucy Sherman (38:21):
There's so much personalization here yeah yeah
that can be so powerful, justlike what is one of the cards
that somehow stands out to meright now and not needing to
know exactly why.
When you pull it and then justlike what yeah, what is exactly?
April Snow (38:36):
what am I?
Lucy Sherman (38:36):
gonna write up yeah, with that yeah yeah it's
beautiful.
April Snow (38:40):
I'm wondering would you be open to sharing a few of
the other images from this deckso we can get a sense, or if
anything calls to you?
Lucy Sherman (38:47):
yeah, of course, and I love to with just there's
an art, too, of like findingimagery that really resonates.
So some people will really lovelike a deck that just doesn't
have any people on that, becausemaybe a person would feel like
too much, so maybe they justwant nature images and there's
so many incredible decks outthere made by so many incredible
(39:10):
people that really can resonatewith you.
So maybe you'll be less like,it'll feel less intense if it is
just like nature or there's adog deck like it's hard
sometimes to yeah, so reallyjust finding what feels good.
So I'll just kind of show, yes,and I don't know exactly what's
being pulled up, but can you see, okay?
April Snow (39:31):
oh yes, thank you.
Lucy Sherman (39:33):
Wow, these are beautiful yeah, so there's just
all different.
And again coming back to likethere isn't any bad, yeah, or
that is bad or negative or meanssomething about you, that you
pulled it, it's all just like.
This is almost like you're, youcan almost look at it.
(39:55):
It was like you're in an artmuseum and if you don't like
something that you see, you justmove to the next painting, or
you just put it away or youdecide to leave the museum.
April Snow (40:04):
So I could see this deck there's.
These different scenes I'mlooking at bring up a lot of
different emotion.
I could see really just leadingyourself on a journey, some
more spiritual, some more likegrief or introspection, just
lots of different.
Lucy Sherman (40:25):
Oh, totally yeah.
April Snow (40:27):
Thank you so much.
What a beautiful deck.
Lucy Sherman (40:30):
I know, yeah, it's really lovely.
It's a great one to start withtoo.
April Snow (40:34):
Can you remind me the?
Lucy Sherman (40:34):
name of that.
Yeah, it's the Lightseers Tarot.
Yeah, chris Ann Donnelly, andshe just yeah on her site she
has some really amazing things.
April Snow (40:45):
I'll be sure to share that in the show notes for
folks they want to check it out.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm happyalways to share other decks too.
I just have so much fun withfinding imagery that really can
resonate?
Lucy Sherman (40:57):
and everything.
So yeah, and then maybe if,like tarot, like you're not
quite wanting to explore thatright now, there's also just
cards that have no words or thatdoesn't have the meaning on
there or anything too, so youcan just play with what is it
like to just have imagery onlyor words only?
April Snow (41:16):
I hadn't thought about that.
But you could really choose thedecks, the type of imagery or
the content that really speaksto you.
I would feel really supportive.
I'm curious because I've beenin spiritual bookstores or at
crystal shops, things like that,where I found decks.
Where do you find your decksfor folks that maybe are looking
(41:36):
for their first deck?
Lucy Sherman (41:39):
yeah, and so also, yeah, those kind of stores a
lot of time on their website too, and they just sometimes have
all of these little hidden gemsthat you would never know, or
they're sort of like oh, here'sa whole audio that goes with
each card too.
That can guide you along oryeah, so I feel like that going
to their site can be reallysweet.
April Snow (42:01):
Um, and just seeing, like what else?
Lucy Sherman (42:03):
because they, if they already have had imagery
that you really connect with,they might have other really
cool resources or freebies onthere too.
So, yeah, and etsy is reallylovely too.
And then, yeah, I think, justgoing also on like youtube and
seeing what our deck guidethroughs or walkthroughs nature
(42:24):
deck walkthroughs what is that?
And being able to just playaround with that and then
deciding from there where toorder it- yeah, I love that.
April Snow (42:32):
This is a whole world, it's like it's opening up
.
Yes, what a beautiful thing.
Thank you for that, and thankyou for sharing one of your
decks with us.
That feels really special, sothank you for that and I know
you do carpools on yourInstagram so folks can see you
doing other practices there,which is great, just to get some
(42:56):
inspiration.
I'm curious do you have anyother favorite creative prompts
that you love to explore withyourself or with or with clients
, in addition to your card pulls?
Lucy Sherman (43:06):
yeah, I find one of the go-to's I just will do it
often and then also somethingthat I just invite clients as
well but just draw a line, shapeand color for kind of how
you're feeling right now andthat can be in there.
Again, there isn't a right orwrong, it's just all about your
experience and this is gettingout of like the very like,
(43:29):
logical, or this is the exactliteral interpretation, like
what happens if you do a littleabstract with that.
So just line, shape and colorand it's incredible what can
come up and like also therelease and that validation too.
And so, for my own, if I justhave a minute even, and I just
(43:51):
need to like, tap into, likewhere I'm at, sometimes just
doing, what is a color that I'mpulled to right now, what is,
what are the different shapesconnected to my feelings right
now?
Also being able to draw thepeople in your life or maybe
relationships that you're havingor or family members, anything
(44:13):
but as plants, and that alsobrings a little like yeah, where
you can get so muchunderstanding, but it's not like
this literal person, right away.
So you're like, oh, yeah, I cancreate whatever imagery around
this and see what comes up forme, so like, yeah, that can be
really lovely.
(44:33):
And then also for moreresources and connecting with
grounding, I love to just noticeif there're feeling like, oh,
I'm really, this is intense oroverwhelmed what happens if you
(45:03):
just really practice drawingvery, very slow and Amy Maracle
has some amazing resources onthat and has a free Facebook
group with really wonderfulvideos but all about like very
slow, intentional shapes anddrawings and so, yeah, I think
it's just what.
(45:24):
And for me and sessions and inmy own life, there again is like
no right or wrong, and so it'sjust like what comes up and, oh,
what would happen if youcreated something connected to
that?
And that also creates space tojust notice, even if it's like I
don't know exactly, I have noidea what the shape is.
But even that was time to pause, do something, ground or
(45:49):
express and then share, whichcan just be so powerful when,
yeah, we need a little time forourselves.
April Snow (45:56):
Yeah, what a beautiful way to channel what
you're feeling, and especiallyin relationships.
Sometimes for me it's too edgyto really be so direct with who
I'm feeling something about, butif I could change them into a
plant or an image that feelslike there's a lot of safety
there, I could go to places thatmaybe I would feel too scared
(46:19):
to go to.
And just the playfulness ofthat and the permission to be
imperfect.
I'm just going to go to the artstore after this and get some
pens.
I want April.
This is it.
There's so much possibility.
(46:40):
You don't have to be an artist.
You can just play and see whatcomes onto the page, and see
what you feel inspired to do andline, shape, color.
That seems so accessible.
Lucy Sherman (46:51):
Yeah, yeah and even if you are feeling like, oh
, this perfectionist, like whathappens if you close your eyes
and do?
that Like still there's arelease that can happen and like
almost that, no matter what,this isn't going to be beautiful
too.
It just takes thatperfectionism sense away too.
So there's so many differentways to explore, but really just
(47:16):
playing with it and it's allabout the process, like what
happens, like when it's, yeah,just really creating for the
experience of creating and thenbringing more of that into your
life.
It just creates all this otherexpansion of, yeah, what happens
if I thought about this in adifferent way?
What happens if I explore thisin a different way?
April Snow (47:36):
What happens if I explore this in a different way.
Yeah, it allows you to try ondifferent ways of being and
thinking and relating toyourself and your world.
It's like a lot of justpermission to be in the present
and not worry about the outcome,and we really need to be able
to experience that a sense ofpeople.
Yeah, it's so beautiful.
If someone was maybe strugglingto connect with their
(48:00):
creativity in this way or tapinto their imagination as a
resource, was there a messagethat you could share with them
of?
Lucy Sherman (48:09):
encouragement yeah , again, there isn't a right or
wrong and then also justexploring, like what is a
creative outlet that would feelmost comfortable and safe for
you to start with?
So maybe drawing if you had anexperience in the past where
maybe you were told somethinglike hard when you were younger,
(48:32):
like maybe drawing isn't thething that we start with, maybe
we start with just looking atimages in a magazine and cutting
them out and then seeing whatit feels like to put them out on
paper or yeah or maybe writingor maybe knitting, but like what
happens, which is like one ofthose things and then bringing
that in more, or yeah, I thinkthat kind of feeling of finding
(48:55):
the thing that really works,like right now feels like the
most low stakes.
That could be like arrangingrocks in your backyard, like,
yeah, it could just be reallywhat feels supportive for you
and then seeing from there, Ithink also for me having a setup
that is just so like it's hardnot to go towards it, so it's
(49:17):
just something that is so easyto travel with.
Like for me, an amazing tool insession and outside of session
is just these twistable Crayolacrayons that, like you can't
break and they got all differentcolors, so it's vibrant, but
it's just a crayon and you justdo.
Like what happens if you playwith that?
(49:38):
And it's so easy to grab andyou don't have to sharpen them,
or yeah, so the thing that youcould just like I'm going to
just spend two minutes on thistoday and see what happens if I
just am in front of my page witha crayon or water, yeah,
watercolor pen or whatever fortwo minutes and then where does?
April Snow (49:58):
it go?
Yeah, just starting with what'savailable to you, what feels
safe to you, yeah, and notneeding to put pressure on
yourself to do it for very longor to do it a certain way.
I love it.
It could be as simple as goinginto your yard arranging some
rocks, or maybe something inyour house, or maybe going to
(50:20):
the craft store and buying somecrowns.
Yes, exactly.
Lucy Sherman (50:25):
How beautiful, yeah, yeah.
Just playing with it, yeah.
April Snow (50:30):
I love that so much.
Thank you so much for this.
Yeah, I am excited to dive in.
I'm excited for you.
I hope folks are, I'm sure.
I mean, you've given us so manyavenues to come back to self
and to explore these rich innerworlds that we have that
sometimes feel reallyoverwhelming and we don't know
what to do with.
(50:51):
But this is a very tactile, Iguess, exploratory way to do it,
and there's so many avenuesavenues I just love it so much.
I'll be sure to share withfolks.
All of you have a lot ofdifferent resources your website
, your Instagram, your podcast.
I know you offer therapyintensives and consultation for
(51:12):
other therapists, so if othertherapists want to bring some of
this in, you're available.
The one thing I would love tohear more about from you before
we end, though, is what are thetherapy intensives?
I know a lot of folks may notknow what that means.
If you could share just alittle bit more about that.
Lucy Sherman (51:26):
Yeah, I'd love to.
Yeah, so with therapyintensives if you just want to
feel a little more relief, kindof faster, you know, sometimes
therapy with every week or everyother week for a certain
shorter amount of time,especially highly sensitive we
can feel like, oh, I just openedup and now it's closed.
(51:47):
We're really getting to thesense of energy in the room and
then we don't see each other andthere's a whole lot of stuff
that happens in a week.
So, yeah, therapy intensivesare usually we can start either
two hours a day for three days aweek, or it can be longer than
that, depending on what feelssupportive, and then it's for a
(52:07):
very concentrated amount of timeusually.
And this can be really lovelyfor folks who are just like I,
really want to have thisintentional time for my healing
and then also not be in therapyfor years and years too, and so,
a way, it just can be amazingwhat can happen when you have
like, oh, I'm seeing my.
You know we're going to worktogether the next day.
(52:29):
So whatever is brought up wehave tomorrow, and there doesn't
have to be as much of this likecontaining and are we OK to
really open this up or do youhave the resources.
It's just like tomorrow we'rejust gonna come right back here
and not much has happened sincewe can explore, yeah, and so
(52:50):
being able to.
Sometimes it's like someone iswanting to feel different for
this new life chapter.
So if they're going to bemoving soon or they are getting
a new job experience or anythinglike that, there can be that,
or also like a lot of just I'mreally finally ready to dedicate
(53:14):
to my healing and really feeldifferent, ready to dedicate to
my healing and really feeldifferent, and I want to do it
now instead of little by littleand so, yeah, so it's just a
different like more concentratedwork, usually multiple days, or
, yeah, concentrated time, andthat can be, yeah, more like
complex trauma.
It can be, yeah, like more, justlike a very specific like I had
(53:38):
this experience that was reallyhard and really overwhelming
recently, or, yeah, that justkeeps coming up and exploring
and so just knowing you havethis container, and with that
too, like I love just how, withthe spaciousness, there's so
much chance for creativity too.
April Snow (53:56):
So just being able to like wherever it feels right
to go as far as how you want toexplore and express and like,
build that trust and comforttogether and all of that is just
right there and that, yeah, acertain amount of time and yeah,
yeah, so beautiful to have thatspace to be able to deep dive,
like we often want to do a senseof people and to have also to
(54:20):
have the room in the session tohave things like creative
process come through, not feelrushed like, oh, we only have 50
minutes, I have to hurry up andget through this.
And how many times have weexperienced that in our lives as
hsps where we're rushed throughour feelings?
yes but this you get to savorand linger and know there's
support right around the corneragain.
(54:42):
So the process keeps moving.
Yeah, yeah, wonderful.
Is that something you offeredjust in Portland, or do you
offer it online for folks inOregon or who can reach out to
you for those?
Lucy Sherman (54:54):
Yeah, so right now it's yeah, just in person, in
person in Portland, oregon, butthere is a chance of yeah just
down the line, a little bit moreonline.
So folks still are welcome toreach out and and it can also be
lovely, yeah, even if it's like, oh, I don't have necessarily
like one trauma, but it's more Ireally want to feel just more
(55:16):
connected to myself, regulated,grounded, creative, all of that,
like that can be really lovelytoo with them.
So, yeah, so mostly just inperson right now, but potential
down the line.
April Snow (55:30):
And I imagine your therapist consultations are for
anywhere.
Or, yes, beautiful, anywhere.
Yes, so yeah, lovely.
Yes, for anywhere.
Or, yes, yeah, beautiful, soyeah, lovely.
Yeah, so many ways for folks towork with you, to connect with
you, whether it's on instagramor through your podcast or the
other resources that you offer,and then for a few special folks
to get to work with you inperson, lovely yeah, and with
(55:55):
the comes much oh it's been justa joy.
Yeah, do you want to mentionabout your consultation?
Lucy Sherman (56:01):
yeah, so just with consultation, like similar to
what I did with my own, likecard pool.
That's just a way to alsoexplore your own practice and
experience and everything as atherapist so we explore through
creativity and cards and reallymake.
I love just the makingsensitive systems that work
really well for you, whetherit's changing your schedule and
(56:24):
to really work for you, orhaving your own little rituals
and between sessions or just awhole, yeah, new, creative way
of doing something.
It's just a joy to do that.
April Snow (56:35):
I love, love that.
Yeah, we really need that asense of therapists having those
supports so we can bringourselves into our work and make
sure we have some space too andthings work for us long-term,
so important.
Yeah, well, lucy, thank youagain.
This is such a lovelyconversation.
Lucy Sherman (56:54):
I loved it.
Yes so wonderful.
April Snow (56:58):
Yes, thank you, and I'll be sure to share all of
those resources that youmentioned in the show notes for
folks they can dive into, theycan reach out to you.
Thanks so much for joining meand Lucy for today's
conversation.
I hope you'll feel inspired tobring more creative supports
(57:20):
into your self-care practice andto help you get started.
Listen to Lucy's podcastTherapy Magic Podcast to learn
more about using creative toolsin your unique healing work.
And if you're a therapistseeking consultation around
creativity or wanting to workwith Lucy as a therapy client in
Portland Oregon, check out theshow notes for more information.
(57:45):
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
(58:05):
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
In the past I could really take in some of the
energy or loudness or intensity.
If I'm also releasing as wellinto watercolor, into painting,
me being observer, taking inemotions while doing something
grounding, doing somethingreleasing, and so for me it's
(00:20):
always been there, that creativepart.
It's always been there, thatcreative part.
So doing art still to this dayfeels incredibly grounding and
incredibly expressive.
April Snow (00:40):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(01:02):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withLucy Sherman about using
creativity, imagery, metaphorand card decks to release and
express your emotions in a safeway.
Lucy is a licensed professionalcounselor and an EMDR certified
therapist in Portland, oregon.
Lucy has always felt deeply withothers and has brought
(01:23):
creativity into every part ofher life, both as a tool to
explore her experiences andconnecting with others.
Lucy feels honored to do thistherapeutic work, helping highly
sensitive folks like herselfreflect and process trauma,
while also tapping into theirintuition, imagination,
creativity, humor and hope.
Imagination, creativity, humorand hope.
(01:47):
Through therapy intensives,there is a space to explore
outside of talking and weavingcreative expression, oracle
cards and EMDR, while getting tothe root of what is stuck and
finding relief, lightness and anew compassion for all versions
of self.
Outside of sessions, you canfind Lucy in the forest with her
Basset, mixed Penny, creatingwith loved ones or gushing over
(02:08):
a favorite deck.
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Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
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(02:31):
treatment with mental health ormedical professional.
Let's dive in so lissy.
(02:54):
Could you start off by tellingus your hsp discovery story, how
, when you realize that you're ahighly sensitive person?
Lucy Sherman (03:03):
yeah.
So I actually did a little bitof exploring of this last night,
just kind of noticing and forme exploring can be with cards,
so I actually pulled a card tojust notice what is that like
first time really connectingwith that, like, oh, I'm
sensitive, and the one was threeof cups and and it was three
(03:28):
women that just looked like justreally close friends in the
image and it really reminded meof like I've always known
through friendship, I've alwaysknown through relationships with
others, and in the beginning Ifelt like there was a lot of
nurturing of my sensitivity andfeeling like very much like the
(03:50):
connections I had as a youngchild with others.
Like I always felt like veryconnected, noticing others'
experiences, observing but thepeople around were also in that
way too, and so there is likethis warmth and connection there
and that creativity and thelike playing with fairy houses
(04:13):
and being in the garden, lovinglittle smells and not loving
really strong things or notloving a certain scratchy or
like face cloth and like all ofthat, but just that
understanding.
But then I felt like in fourthgrade I really noticed it more
of like oh, not everyone aroundme is sensitive like this and I
(04:38):
can be told I'm too sensitiveand I can be bullied for it or
that kind of feeling.
So I felt like I've always kindof known and there is this way,
it's like been nurtured.
And then later on it was like,oh, actually, this is different
and this is maybe like I canfeel more overwhelmed.
(05:00):
Or when things are faster, likein school, is a required of me
or the world, there's actuallyharder things that I'm seeing,
like all of that just feeling itso heavily.
So it was kind of, yeah, thatquestion just noticing, yeah,
that the earlier sensitivity isokay and then, little by little,
(05:21):
yeah, it's shifting.
April Snow (05:23):
Yeah, it really does happen in a relationship, does
it when we have that mirror?
I hadn't really thought aboutthat before, but that's when we
see it, when we're having thingsreflected back, yeah, yeah, and
how beautiful to have thatfoundation of acceptance and
nurturing around yoursensitivity before going out
into the world and then gettingthose messages.
(05:45):
I think that we've all heard atsome point of too sensitive,
but how beautiful to hear thatthere was those playing with
fairy houses and being in thegarden and just sharing.
It sounds like there werepeople in your life that you got
to share your sensitivity with.
Lucy Sherman (06:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and like honored.
So people pointing out, oh, youreally connected with that
stranger or that new friend, oryou went out of your way there
to explore this little flowerwith a new person in preschool,
or something like that kind ofnoticing.
But then later on that likewhoa, things are heavy, or this
(06:23):
is hard, and then that extendingon of oh, this is actually
there's not.
Like everyone isn't exactlylike this, or other people are
totally okay with the busynessand like almost want it.
Right, that's true.
April Snow (06:40):
Thank you, but beautiful that you got to
highlight the gifts ofsensitivity early on, instead of
having to try to weed throughthe difficulties later to find
it.
It seems like did it stay inyour awareness, the gifts, or
did it fade as other people cameinto your life?
Lucy Sherman (07:03):
Yeah, I feel like there was places where it felt
okay to really show myself inrelationships and that's
throughout life, knowing theseare the ones that I can really
share those sensitivities orreally ask for things to meet my
sensitive needs.
But then there's others thatjust feel like, oh, I really,
like I don't show it and it kindof fades in those and I felt
(07:25):
like there was a lot of time,kind of more middle school, high
school, all of that, where itjust started to be like, oh, I
have to just meet other people'sneeds or the things that I need
need to be on the back burner,or, yeah, their people are
prioritized, and so that feelingof like, oh, I'm that's
actually fading away.
April Snow (07:46):
Some, yeah, yeah, right as you start to prioritize
other people instead ofyourself.
Is that in an effort to kind offit in as you're going through
your adolescence, or is theresomething else happening that
empathy coming through?
Or I'm curious what washappening for you there?
Lucy Sherman (08:04):
Yeah, I think it was definitely the fitting in
and also kind of went from likesmaller environments to bigger
environments, so like a way,bigger school and that kind of
difference too.
And so there's multiple peopleto start like, oh, where do I
belong, what do I do do?
And then also with that, justlike they're, yeah, seeing
(08:28):
people having harder times orlike really, yeah, coping with
really big life things and sobeing there, but with that not
being there as much for myselflike.
April Snow (08:42):
I just think of you maybe getting deluded in these
bigger crowds versus being youngand just being able to really
center around your needs andyour sensitivity.
Yeah, it's easier to loseourselves when other people's
needs are coming more into theforefront totally.
Lucy Sherman (09:02):
I think there's also like noticing that, being
observed or being watched that'ssuch a difference too and so
different experiences wheremaybe I was more like judged or
yeah, or just being in some waylike you're different or you're
(09:22):
not enough, you're not as smart,like all of that kind of coming
together and processing butalso trying to take in because
there was so long of taking inand it being like okay, like
it's okay to take in, and thenwell, actually there's things to
like filter Right.
April Snow (09:40):
That's true.
Right At the beginning you getto be kind of this open vessel
and then realizing oh wait, Imight need to discern what to
take in and what not to take in.
I love that idea of like oh, Ineed to put up a filter here,
it's too much to take this allin, were taking more in.
(10:02):
I'm curious what were younoticing for yourself?
Were you more overwhelmed?
Lucy Sherman (10:15):
Were you feeling other people's emotions?
What was happening as you wentinto this other phase?
Definitely a lot more.
Yeah, feeling other people'semotions and of course I'll
caretaker role in different ways, even if it wasn't asked of me.
But then it kind of started tobe like, oh well, lucy will be a
sounding board, yeah, that kindof thing.
So at first, yeah, very muchlike feeling into others'
emotions and then also withoutbeing so overwhelmed with that
(10:37):
too, or feeling like, yeah, justlike other people being able to
move on from intenseexperiences or little situations
that would happen out ofcontrol, and me just feeling
very much like, oh, this isstill really intense.
Experienced you in like littlewords of a caretaker just
(11:03):
sticking in my mind or likedeeply connected at times with
friends sticking in my mind.
April Snow (11:09):
But then there's also that, yeah, that total
overwhelm and body feeling itand yeah, yeah, yeah, it really
does stick with us, no matterwhat's happening, whether it's
uncomfortable and difficult,edgygy, or if it's beautiful and
meaningful, all of it sticksaround and needing time with
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that and it's.
It can be hard when you seeother people bouncing back so
quickly or moving on so quickly.
It's like how do we find thattime to slow down and to be
different, to filter, filter todiscern Sounds like you.
Really, you went from beingvery open and moving forward to
maybe needing to maybe pull backa little bit.
Yeah.
Lucy Sherman (11:54):
I feel that too, like different, like
relationships too.
That may be at first like ohyeah, this is just how it is,
and then that kind of actuallythis is a lot more like loudness
, or this is a lot more energy,or this is yeah.
So that kind of feeling of nowI need to like do something in
my system, as like I really needto pull back?
April Snow (12:18):
Yes, as you've gone through and, you know, had these
experiences.
What have you found issupportive for you as a
sensitive person?
What do you bring in?
Lucy Sherman (12:31):
Yeah, so much I feel like too.
That's just always been there.
So I feel like watercolor doingjust anything art related
creative, just anything artrelated creative, and that's
also been a way that in the pastI feel like even younger years
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I could really take in some ofthe energy or loudness or
intensity.
if I'm also releasing as wellinto watercolor, into painting,
listening to conversations thatmaybe were a little bit more
intense in family, but then mebeing kind of like observer,
taking in emotions while doingsomething grounding, doing
something releasing, and so forme it's always been there, that
(13:15):
kind of, yeah, that likecreative part.
So doing art still to this dayjust feels incredibly grounding
and incredibly expressive and away to really see myself too.
Also, like looking at middleschool and high school art and
everything.
There's just this kind of likeoh, those are times that I could
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really see myself, even if Iwas trying to go into all of
these different likerelationships or mask a little
bit more, try to be this orchameleon, like all of that.
I really there were times ofstill being with myself or, yeah
, really seeing myself in a waythat, yeah, that other things,
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like I couldn't do as much, oryeah.
So art has always been there.
That's like watercolor, acrylicpainting, drawing, and it can
just be like playing with colortoo.
It does not, yeah, and so Ifeel like there's that like
expressive part, and thenthere's also that really
grounding part, and there's alsothat really like needing
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emotion out and there was onepost that you made a while back
just around, like movement, likewith excitement and stuff.
But there was something aboutthat that reminded me too of
different ways that I would movemy body when I was younger and
then now what that looks like.
But I yeah, there's just waysthat either way, that kind of
(14:43):
expression whether, yeah,movement, dancing, even to this
day, writing, drawing being innature, all of that just feels
so soothing yeah, creativity canmanifest in many ways.
April Snow (14:59):
Yeah, and I love that.
You said you can just putcolors on a page, play, play
with color.
It doesn't have to be anythingformal, and it sounds like
creativity was a through linefor you even before.
Maybe you realized how you wereusing it.
Yes, yeah, absolutely yeah,yeah, it's beautiful Just the
way you described it, as it'snot just this tactile expression
(15:23):
, it's grounding, it's findingyourself again.
I hadn't thought about this,but it is really moving emotion
through out of you onto the page, and there doesn't have to be
words.
Lucy Sherman (15:34):
Exactly.
Yeah, I feel like that too withthe not having words sometimes,
like having so much processingand everything but being able to
do that and like have thatspace on paper, and that there
isn't a way to mess up.
It's really just like this isyou and you can.
If you don't want to anyoneelse to see it, that's okay too,
and it's just like this is you,but it's a way to really settle
(15:58):
into yourself and then, littleby little, you start to have the
words, but you don'tnecessarily have to.
And I feel like in the past,being sensitive, I had some
people like caregivers in mylife who were very loquacious
like a lot of words and veryextroverted, and so being able
to, in those moments, have apause for myself and then share
(16:22):
and that being acceptable, likeoh, I'm just doing, and that
being acceptable, Like oh, I'mjust doing, you know, just doing
art, and then I'll share, butlisten and take it in and then
see where I'm at.
So it's always yeah, but Ididn't always know what I was
doing.
April Snow (16:38):
I think that's such a common experience.
I hear from sensitive folkswhether it was knowing they're
more sensitive or just leaninginto certain ways of living
before they even knew what theywere doing, just trusting that
intuition.
It's so beautiful, I love it.
And then it often will kind ofadapt and and change over time
as more awareness comes in.
(16:59):
But just having that space tonot have to have words and I
have to have it figured out,especially when we have so many
somatic experiences withsensitive people, there aren't
always words I found yes.
And so to have another outlet,and I love that.
You said you can't mess up.
There's no one right way to dothis.
You can just be in the processwith beautiful permission.
(17:23):
Yeah, I love that.
I'm curious.
You talked about using cardsand how you pulled a card for
this conversation and to thinkabout that, how can we use
imagery?
So we've talked about looselyart, but if we get more specific
with imagery and cards andother symbols, how can we use
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that to support us in ourprocessing?
Oh, everywhere.
Lucy Sherman (17:46):
Everywhere.
Oh, I can't use that to supportus in our processing.
Oh, everywhere, I love it somuch.
Everywhere.
Oh, I can't wait, I love it,yeah.
So I feel I mean really justbeing able to sit with imagery
and we just being so like suchthis inner world, and have so
much creativity, and so to beable to create space for that
and then see things in new ways.
So I feel like a lot of thetime, like even exploring what
(18:09):
stands out and this can be on acard, this can be in a magazine,
this can be in like I did itthe other day where I didn't
have any cards or imagerybesides nature around and then
be like, okay, what is thismountain reflecting to me right
now, of, like how I'm feeling,or what is a message here, and
(18:29):
it's just that sense of really,yeah, that settling with it and
seeing things in a new way,where sometimes, if you're
really cognitive and really inthe words, we can get so like
this is just how it is, and sothere's a way to expand and play
, and then that, yeah, I feellike imagery can really give you
(18:50):
that chance of play.
Yeah.
April Snow (18:55):
Like you said, pull us out of the words, those
confines of the words,especially when we're having
such a nuanced, depthfulexperience.
The words do not do it justiceat all.
And I remember I worked with asomatic therapist years back and
every session we would startshe just had images that she had
cut out or printed, orphotographs or postcards that
(19:18):
she had found at the thriftstore and we would just use
those and it was really helpfulin kind of reconnecting with
myself.
Oh, I'm drawn to this image.
Then being curious, why am Idrawn to it?
Oh, I can't figure out what Iwant to say, but this image
speaks to what I'm feeling and Ilove the idea of taking that
(19:39):
practice.
You don't have to have cards oreven cutouts.
You can look outside, in yourenvironment, in your world.
A cloud, a mountain if you havemountains, a tree, an animal,
that's really beautiful, thatthat feels like.
It really opens up a lot for meas I hear you say that because
I had never considered that thatwe could take this practice out
(19:59):
into our into our worlds.
Lucy Sherman (20:01):
Anything, yeah, and just like.
What does it reflect to you?
And it's all about your ownexperience and that sense of
like.
Yeah, what is your bodysensation with that?
What is, yeah, what is thatlike intuition around the
message?
What is this connecting to aswell?
Like, maybe you see somethingand then all of a sudden, it
(20:23):
connects with, like anexperience you've had, and then
what about that experience?
That is like, why is thatcoming up now for you?
And then maybe there's been alesson there that you learned in
that experience and now it'shere.
So it's like this beautiful wayto expand the map it feels like,
and then also to just sit, yeah, together and just like have
(20:44):
that, yeah, that common languageas well.
So like to both, even if youdon't have the words, to both
see the same thing.
And from that, yeah, withfriends, with loved ones, and
sessions, all of that, but beingable to have this and also,
yeah, see each other.
It's a way of really seeingeach other, I feel like, but in
(21:05):
a way that can feel a little bitmore like safe, sometimes, or
comforting or less of just rightaway, vulnerable, yet still
very vulnerable.
April Snow (21:22):
Yeah, so yeah, it like just starting with you know
what does this bring up for me?
And then, how am I feelingabout this?
And what does that remind me of?
And all these questions justspill out and just reminds me of
our natural way of being asensitive people, how we make
connections in our minds and ourexperiences, and just allows us
to come home to ourselves andbe with our process.
(21:46):
And then how beautiful to beable to share that with someone
else without needing to figureout necessarily how to
communicate it if the wordsaren't there, and it could be an
opportunity to deepen.
We're both looking at thisbeautiful image and then maybe
being curious what does thatbring up for them?
Yes, this is really amazing tothink about how we could use
that yeah, I love it too as away to get creative as well.
Lucy Sherman (22:13):
so, most like if this one image happened to be a
creative exploration for myself,what would that be as well?
And so playing around with thatas well.
So turning what image you seeinto like an expression to from
there on onto paper again, solike one image turning into
(22:35):
another image that you createand then image expressing under
the page you mean it's lettingit inspire you to create your
own art or just play on the page.
Yeah, oh wow, yeah yeah, itcould.
April Snow (22:56):
It could really open up a lot, I imagine.
Yeah, and you spoke tosomething about it being safer.
I'm wondering if you could saymore about that.
How is working with imagerymaybe safer than working with
words or conversation?
Lucy Sherman (23:12):
Yeah.
So I feel like sometimes withwork, if you're just asked like
a question or something, it canfeel so direct or so intense or
almost like so pressure, butwith imagery there's that pause
and then also you can sharewhatever you want to share from
that and it's not necessary,like it can be, yeah, however
(23:34):
you're seeing it, but thereisn't this feeling of like this
is the only answer.
It's like, okay, I can see thispart and then I can also see
this part and and yeah, I thinkwith that space and then also
it's a lot of the time to if wehad really intense experiences
that like the part of our brainconnected with language can go
(23:56):
offline.
Express that way can just be somuch more comfortable and
actually not get us out intothis like fight, flight, freeze,
spawn and can yeah, it canreally like ground us.
April Snow (24:14):
That makes a lot of sense.
It just opens up a lot of roomto explore your experience and
have to come up with the perfectanswer response yeah,
especially because we oftendon't know what's going on until
we get in there and explore alittle bit.
And this offers, it seems like,a just a practice for doing
(24:35):
that.
Lucy Sherman (24:35):
See what's here exactly, yeah, I feel too,
because with that highlysensitive self and just how much
we see beauty and then also howmuch we see, yeah, kind of
those harder things as well, andhow we feel, but with the
beauty and a card too, just likebeing so just connected with
(25:00):
one particular color or onething, that really just elates
us Because there's a way to justreally zero in.
And then with imagery too, it'ssomething really safe that you
can just turn the page or go toa different card or decide not
to look at something.
So there's also choice thereand that also creates safety
(25:24):
when there's choice.
April Snow (25:25):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you get to decide and beelated or set a boundary.
Yeah, exactly, put it aside.
What a good practice for life.
Would you be open to walking azero card pool?
Lucy Sherman (25:46):
what that looks like yeah, I'd love you to.
April Snow (25:49):
Yeah, I know this might be new for some folks, or,
or, if you're like me, youmight have some cards that you
are still figuring out how tointeract with yes, I would love
to well, one thing I just loveis the way I mean with art, it's
just like there isn't a rightor wrong.
Lucy Sherman (26:06):
And I think sometimes if you're thinking
like, okay, oracle or tarotcards, imagery cards, it's like
there's only one meaning.
But no, it's all about what itbrings up for you.
And so, instead of it beinglike predictive and like, oh,
this is about future, this isreally about what do you notice
Projective, and like, oh, thisis about future, this is really
(26:27):
about what do you noticeprojective, what is it bringing
up for you today that maybetomorrow you notice a completely
different thing?
And like, what a fun thing tolook at the same card and see a
completely different thing basedon where you're at.
So that kind of mirror.
And then also knowing thereisn't like any bad cards,
they're all just ways to explore.
So, and also with that, there'sways that some folks will be
(26:51):
like, okay, I want to like learneverything about the cards
before and do all the learning,but so much of the learning can
happen in your own intuition.
And then exploring, okay, whatdoes the guidebook say?
So like playing around aroundyou with that, so you don't have
to know everything before youstart using them that's so
helpful to know that it can be avery personal experience.
April Snow (27:13):
You might want to read the guidebook if that
provides some safety structure,but you have to.
It's so personal and what abeautiful metaphor around our
emotions that it can change andit will change.
Yes, that's okay too.
Lucy Sherman (27:29):
Yeah, it can be wild to just yeah, to like pull
for certain times and then allof a sudden you have, yeah, this
whole different understandingand deepening and so yeah and
there can almost be like a waythat cards can be your friends
too, like that support and youcan.
Really there's choice in how youpull too.
(27:51):
So maybe you'll do likemessages from like past, present
, future, self and what I wantto notice, or maybe a message of
like energy of the day I wantto tap into, or how can I honor
my sensitive self right now,like it's just playing around
with questions that feel rightfor you.
April Snow (28:09):
So you can have different inquiries depending on
what's going on for you.
Lucy Sherman (28:13):
That day, exactly, yeah, so even that can be
incredibly creative and eventhough there isn't a right or
wrong way, it's just whatevercomes up for you yeah, so yeah,
maybe just noticing like whatwhat I'm feeling right now?
What kind of is happening rightnow in my world.
What I'm noticing?
April Snow (28:35):
as Lucy is pulling a card.
I just want to.
If you're listening to this andyou want to see the cards, you
can watch on YouTube.
That way, I'm sure it could benice to have a visual element as
we talk about imagery All thevisuals and imagery.
Exactly.
Lucy Sherman (28:49):
Yeah, I am pulling from the Lightseers Tarot right
now.
This is Chrisanne Donnelly.
She has some really incredible,just creative artwork and she
also on her website she has afree card pull.
So if you don't have your ownas well, it can be nice to just,
(29:11):
even on the go, be able to pulla card for free.
Oh, that's beautiful.
That can be really lovely, andthis is just a yeah, sweet, just
noticing, and there's plenty of, yeah, just really wonderful
imagery cards out here.
So I'm just kind of spreadingthem out and this is also part
of my noticing intuition,pausing, seeing what it feels
like where I'm at, and I'll justput my hands over the cards and
(29:33):
just notice anythingsomatically that kind of tells
me like, oh, this card, likewhat I'm noticing right now and
it's this one and I have no ideawhat it is.
There's also something reallypowerful about just that
spontaneity where you're justlike whatever this is, I don't
know what it is, and so it alsogets you out of this like, yeah,
(29:54):
the cognitive, like, oh, it hasto be this.
It's like, okay, so we have theking of cups beautiful card.
Yeah, and so for me, I'm justgoing to spend a moment and just
notice what first kind ofstands out to me.
And you can do this by maybejust noticing, like, okay, what
(30:17):
colors am I noticing or drawn toIf I'm looking at all the
details of the card, what is,yeah, just kind of drawing my
attention the most.
And this is just a person who'skind of in the water and flow
with this bowl that they're justmoving their hand towards.
(30:39):
So for me there's been a lotaround how to find space and
grounding and steadiness, evenif there is that up and down.
So even if there's like the ebband flow of business, the ebb
and flow of life, the intensity,the calmness, the discomfort
(31:01):
with some of those differentparts.
But this really just I see somuch and this is feeling more
where I'm at right now, whereaslast week I was feeling a little
bit more angsty, antsy and thatkind of like ending of summer
into fall feeling and I feellike also being sensitive.
We just are really connected tothe seasons and so for me, I
(31:25):
really see this glowing aroundthe head and then heart, and so
so much of this message of justdo what's in integrity and in
love and with, yeah, intention,and so seeing so much around
that heart, and for me there's alittle boat in the background
(31:48):
and with the boat in thebackground, it's just like
that's a strong boat.
It doesn't.
It's little boat, but it's likea little engine that could boat
.
Yeah, it just looks like it canjust weather the waves and
there are going to be waves.
So, and then there's alsosomething really beautiful with
the actual movement of the handtowards the bowl as well, and
(32:14):
this is this one just noticingthat, and there's actually I'm
noticing like a vibration thatthey're kind of creating.
So they're actually making avibration and sound that can
affect the water and with that,it's like what are different
ways right now?
For me, even if things feel outof control, or even if things
(32:36):
feel like that ebb and flow istoo much or anything like that,
what is a little thing that Ican do that still creates some
kind of vibration around thatstill, and so that like sharing
my love in all the differentways, whether that's in
friendships and relationship tomyself, anything like that but
(32:59):
using that kind of sharing ofcompassion, sensitive love,
seeing people, even if certainareas of my life I'm yeah, I
have a little bit more dormant.
So yeah there's something likethat, of like, how can I really
tune into that love?
And then how can I be steady inthe ebb and flow?
(33:24):
And then how can I create somekind of way of still affecting
my external environment?
April Snow (33:33):
So beautiful, just to see you go through that
process and all that it canbring up and letting it be
organic.
I see this part of the imageand it brings up this and this
other piece and so so, sopowerful to you, even just
seeing one image, which on thesurface it's a relatively simple
(33:54):
image for a card, because I'veseen ones that are a lot more
complex, but we're able to focuson the nuances, the ripple with
the finger in the water, theboat in the background, and this
is this, the like you said, theenergy coming off the car
that's emanating from the car,this peacefulness.
I love how you said you knowit's this ebb and flow and
(34:16):
alignment was coming up for me,just like the alignment between
head and the heart and how whatwe do ripples out and impacts
others, and just so much wecould just imagine.
Go on and on, exactly.
Yes, I'm wondering is okay, I'mjust thinking of my experience
as a sensitive person andobviously doing a practice like
(34:40):
this.
It's pretty straightforward onthe surface, but internally
there's a lot happening.
Yeah, it can be very evocative,a lot could come through.
So I'm just wondering if youhave any thoughts on just taking
care of ourselves as thesethoughts, emotions, other images
(35:01):
and memories come up as you'redoing a card, pull yeah.
Or working with an image yeah,yeah, what helps for you as
you're going through thispractice, taking care of
yourself with what comes up.
Lucy Sherman (35:14):
Something that, like I'll sometimes do if I'm
just noticing like, oh, I reallywant some extra support, is go
through and looking the other,so looking at all the images and
choosing a card beforehand thatconnects with a support, so
like this card is going tosupport me, this image is going
to support me in whatever I pullto.
(35:36):
And so, yeah, or you can connectwith beforehand of someone in
your life, real or imaginary,someone from a book, someone
from a movie, like anything,nature, anything that can hold
you when you do a pull, a cardpull, and then also with yeah,
with all of that, like againthat like choice piece, also
(35:58):
creating a space for you thatfeels comforting.
So maybe having a smell close bythat feels really comforting to
you, maybe your dog or, yeah,animal being sensitive to, maybe
something really soft, justcreating an environment that
feels comforting, environmentthat feels comforting.
And then also, if there is likemaybe you don't want to, maybe
(36:23):
you want to almost set a littletime in the beginning, like in
the beginning, you don'tnecessarily have to go straight
into, there's never a have towith this, it's all about your
own practice.
But if you feel like, oh, a lotcould be brought up if I have
an hour to do this, like whathappens if it's just one card
for the day, this feels like anice container of what's the
energy that I want to tap intotoday and then somehow see some
(36:46):
part of the card that resonateswith that.
So there's like creating theenvironment, also, anything of
comfort, also creating some kindof container, if that feels
good any way of expressing to,so maybe it taps into something
intense.
And then you can pull adifferent card and like, okay,
(37:07):
well, how is this gonna?
come up or maybe an expressionof writing, and just like really
vigorous writing and then likescrpling up the paper and or
ripping it or anything like that, but just that still gives you
a choice in it.
I think that's everything isabout you and your experience,
(37:27):
and then finding that resource,finding that container.
April Snow (37:32):
I love that everything is about you.
Yeah, this is maybe one of thespaces that we get to say that
if that's not available in a lotof places, this is up to you.
There's no one right way to dothis, it sounds like, and
bringing some intentionality totake care of yourself in it,
whether that's some type of ananchor, a person in a place and
(37:53):
real or imaginary taking care ofyour nervous system, have those
comforts of sensory supportsand maybe not needing to throw
yourself into the process, maybejust spending a few minutes,
and then it sounds like beingable to express whatever comes
through or change your mind orchange how you approach it.
(38:15):
Instead of pulling a card blind, it sounds like you could
choose a card totally morepredictable.
I love it.
Lucy Sherman (38:21):
There's so much personalization here yeah yeah
that can be so powerful, justlike what is one of the cards
that somehow stands out to meright now and not needing to
know exactly why.
When you pull it and then justlike what yeah, what is exactly?
April Snow (38:36):
what am I?
Lucy Sherman (38:36):
gonna write up yeah, with that yeah yeah it's
beautiful.
April Snow (38:40):
I'm wondering would you be open to sharing a few of
the other images from this deckso we can get a sense, or if
anything calls to you?
Lucy Sherman (38:47):
yeah, of course, and I love to with just there's
an art, too, of like findingimagery that really resonates.
So some people will really lovelike a deck that just doesn't
have any people on that, becausemaybe a person would feel like
too much, so maybe they justwant nature images and there's
so many incredible decks outthere made by so many incredible
(39:10):
people that really can resonatewith you.
So maybe you'll be less like,it'll feel less intense if it is
just like nature or there's adog deck like it's hard
sometimes to yeah, so reallyjust finding what feels good.
So I'll just kind of show, yes,and I don't know exactly what's
being pulled up, but can you see, okay?
April Snow (39:31):
oh yes, thank you.
Lucy Sherman (39:33):
Wow, these are beautiful yeah, so there's just
all different.
And again coming back to likethere isn't any bad, yeah, or
that is bad or negative or meanssomething about you, that you
pulled it, it's all just like.
This is almost like you're, youcan almost look at it.
(39:55):
It was like you're in an artmuseum and if you don't like
something that you see, you justmove to the next painting, or
you just put it away or youdecide to leave the museum.
April Snow (40:04):
So I could see this deck there's.
These different scenes I'mlooking at bring up a lot of
different emotion.
I could see really just leadingyourself on a journey, some
more spiritual, some more likegrief or introspection, just
lots of different.
Lucy Sherman (40:25):
Oh, totally yeah.
April Snow (40:27):
Thank you so much.
What a beautiful deck.
Lucy Sherman (40:30):
I know, yeah, it's really lovely.
It's a great one to start withtoo.
April Snow (40:34):
Can you remind me the?
Lucy Sherman (40:34):
name of that.
Yeah, it's the Lightseers Tarot.
Yeah, chris Ann Donnelly, andshe just yeah on her site she
has some really amazing things.
April Snow (40:45):
I'll be sure to share that in the show notes for
folks they want to check it out.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm happyalways to share other decks too.
I just have so much fun withfinding imagery that really can
resonate?
Lucy Sherman (40:57):
and everything.
So yeah, and then maybe if,like tarot, like you're not
quite wanting to explore thatright now, there's also just
cards that have no words or thatdoesn't have the meaning on
there or anything too, so youcan just play with what is it
like to just have imagery onlyor words only?
April Snow (41:16):
I hadn't thought about that.
But you could really choose thedecks, the type of imagery or
the content that really speaksto you.
I would feel really supportive.
I'm curious because I've beenin spiritual bookstores or at
crystal shops, things like that,where I found decks.
Where do you find your decksfor folks that maybe are looking
(41:36):
for their first deck?
Lucy Sherman (41:39):
yeah, and so also, yeah, those kind of stores a
lot of time on their website too, and they just sometimes have
all of these little hidden gemsthat you would never know, or
they're sort of like oh, here'sa whole audio that goes with
each card too.
That can guide you along oryeah, so I feel like that going
to their site can be reallysweet.
April Snow (42:01):
Um, and just seeing, like what else?
Lucy Sherman (42:03):
because they, if they already have had imagery
that you really connect with,they might have other really
cool resources or freebies onthere too.
So, yeah, and etsy is reallylovely too.
And then, yeah, I think, justgoing also on like youtube and
seeing what our deck guidethroughs or walkthroughs nature
(42:24):
deck walkthroughs what is that?
And being able to just playaround with that and then
deciding from there where toorder it- yeah, I love that.
April Snow (42:32):
This is a whole world, it's like it's opening up
.
Yes, what a beautiful thing.
Thank you for that, and thankyou for sharing one of your
decks with us.
That feels really special, sothank you for that and I know
you do carpools on yourInstagram so folks can see you
doing other practices there,which is great, just to get some
(42:56):
inspiration.
I'm curious do you have anyother favorite creative prompts
that you love to explore withyourself or with or with clients
, in addition to your card pulls?
Lucy Sherman (43:06):
yeah, I find one of the go-to's I just will do it
often and then also somethingthat I just invite clients as
well but just draw a line, shapeand color for kind of how
you're feeling right now andthat can be in there.
Again, there isn't a right orwrong, it's just all about your
experience and this is gettingout of like the very like,
(43:29):
logical, or this is the exactliteral interpretation, like
what happens if you do a littleabstract with that.
So just line, shape and colorand it's incredible what can
come up and like also therelease and that validation too.
And so, for my own, if I justhave a minute even, and I just
(43:51):
need to like, tap into, likewhere I'm at, sometimes just
doing, what is a color that I'mpulled to right now, what is,
what are the different shapesconnected to my feelings right
now?
Also being able to draw thepeople in your life or maybe
relationships that you're havingor or family members, anything
(44:13):
but as plants, and that alsobrings a little like yeah, where
you can get so muchunderstanding, but it's not like
this literal person, right away.
So you're like, oh, yeah, I cancreate whatever imagery around
this and see what comes up forme, so like, yeah, that can be
really lovely.
(44:33):
And then also for moreresources and connecting with
grounding, I love to just noticeif there're feeling like, oh,
I'm really, this is intense oroverwhelmed what happens if you
(45:03):
just really practice drawingvery, very slow and Amy Maracle
has some amazing resources onthat and has a free Facebook
group with really wonderfulvideos but all about like very
slow, intentional shapes anddrawings and so, yeah, I think
it's just what.
(45:24):
And for me and sessions and inmy own life, there again is like
no right or wrong, and so it'sjust like what comes up and, oh,
what would happen if youcreated something connected to
that?
And that also creates space tojust notice, even if it's like I
don't know exactly, I have noidea what the shape is.
But even that was time to pause, do something, ground or
(45:49):
express and then share, whichcan just be so powerful when,
yeah, we need a little time forourselves.
April Snow (45:56):
Yeah, what a beautiful way to channel what
you're feeling, and especiallyin relationships.
Sometimes for me it's too edgyto really be so direct with who
I'm feeling something about, butif I could change them into a
plant or an image that feelslike there's a lot of safety
there, I could go to places thatmaybe I would feel too scared
(46:19):
to go to.
And just the playfulness ofthat and the permission to be
imperfect.
I'm just going to go to the artstore after this and get some
pens.
I want April.
This is it.
There's so much possibility.
(46:40):
You don't have to be an artist.
You can just play and see whatcomes onto the page, and see
what you feel inspired to do andline, shape, color.
That seems so accessible.
Lucy Sherman (46:51):
Yeah, yeah and even if you are feeling like, oh
, this perfectionist, like whathappens if you close your eyes
and do?
that Like still there's arelease that can happen and like
almost that, no matter what,this isn't going to be beautiful
too.
It just takes thatperfectionism sense away too.
So there's so many differentways to explore, but really just
(47:16):
playing with it and it's allabout the process, like what
happens, like when it's, yeah,just really creating for the
experience of creating and thenbringing more of that into your
life.
It just creates all this otherexpansion of, yeah, what happens
if I thought about this in adifferent way?
What happens if I explore thisin a different way?
April Snow (47:36):
What happens if I explore this in a different way.
Yeah, it allows you to try ondifferent ways of being and
thinking and relating toyourself and your world.
It's like a lot of justpermission to be in the present
and not worry about the outcome,and we really need to be able
to experience that a sense ofpeople.
Yeah, it's so beautiful.
If someone was maybe strugglingto connect with their
(48:00):
creativity in this way or tapinto their imagination as a
resource, was there a messagethat you could share with them
of?
Lucy Sherman (48:09):
encouragement yeah , again, there isn't a right or
wrong and then also justexploring, like what is a
creative outlet that would feelmost comfortable and safe for
you to start with?
So maybe drawing if you had anexperience in the past where
maybe you were told somethinglike hard when you were younger,
(48:32):
like maybe drawing isn't thething that we start with, maybe
we start with just looking atimages in a magazine and cutting
them out and then seeing whatit feels like to put them out on
paper or yeah or maybe writingor maybe knitting, but like what
happens, which is like one ofthose things and then bringing
that in more, or yeah, I thinkthat kind of feeling of finding
(48:55):
the thing that really works,like right now feels like the
most low stakes.
That could be like arrangingrocks in your backyard, like,
yeah, it could just be reallywhat feels supportive for you
and then seeing from there, Ithink also for me having a setup
that is just so like it's hardnot to go towards it, so it's
(49:17):
just something that is so easyto travel with.
Like for me, an amazing tool insession and outside of session
is just these twistable Crayolacrayons that, like you can't
break and they got all differentcolors, so it's vibrant, but
it's just a crayon and you justdo.
Like what happens if you playwith that?
(49:38):
And it's so easy to grab andyou don't have to sharpen them,
or yeah, so the thing that youcould just like I'm going to
just spend two minutes on thistoday and see what happens if I
just am in front of my page witha crayon or water, yeah,
watercolor pen or whatever fortwo minutes and then where does?
April Snow (49:58):
it go?
Yeah, just starting with what'savailable to you, what feels
safe to you, yeah, and notneeding to put pressure on
yourself to do it for very longor to do it a certain way.
I love it.
It could be as simple as goinginto your yard arranging some
rocks, or maybe something inyour house, or maybe going to
(50:20):
the craft store and buying somecrowns.
Yes, exactly.
Lucy Sherman (50:25):
How beautiful, yeah, yeah.
Just playing with it, yeah.
April Snow (50:30):
I love that so much.
Thank you so much for this.
Yeah, I am excited to dive in.
I'm excited for you.
I hope folks are, I'm sure.
I mean, you've given us so manyavenues to come back to self
and to explore these rich innerworlds that we have that
sometimes feel reallyoverwhelming and we don't know
what to do with.
(50:51):
But this is a very tactile, Iguess, exploratory way to do it,
and there's so many avenuesavenues I just love it so much.
I'll be sure to share withfolks.
All of you have a lot ofdifferent resources your website
, your Instagram, your podcast.
I know you offer therapyintensives and consultation for
(51:12):
other therapists, so if othertherapists want to bring some of
this in, you're available.
The one thing I would love tohear more about from you before
we end, though, is what are thetherapy intensives?
I know a lot of folks may notknow what that means.
If you could share just alittle bit more about that.
Lucy Sherman (51:26):
Yeah, I'd love to.
Yeah, so with therapyintensives if you just want to
feel a little more relief, kindof faster, you know, sometimes
therapy with every week or everyother week for a certain
shorter amount of time,especially highly sensitive we
can feel like, oh, I just openedup and now it's closed.
(51:47):
We're really getting to thesense of energy in the room and
then we don't see each other andthere's a whole lot of stuff
that happens in a week.
So, yeah, therapy intensivesare usually we can start either
two hours a day for three days aweek, or it can be longer than
that, depending on what feelssupportive, and then it's for a
(52:07):
very concentrated amount of timeusually.
And this can be really lovelyfor folks who are just like I,
really want to have thisintentional time for my healing
and then also not be in therapyfor years and years too, and so,
a way, it just can be amazingwhat can happen when you have
like, oh, I'm seeing my.
You know we're going to worktogether the next day.
(52:29):
So whatever is brought up wehave tomorrow, and there doesn't
have to be as much of this likecontaining and are we OK to
really open this up or do youhave the resources.
It's just like tomorrow we'rejust gonna come right back here
and not much has happened sincewe can explore, yeah, and so
(52:50):
being able to.
Sometimes it's like someone iswanting to feel different for
this new life chapter.
So if they're going to bemoving soon or they are getting
a new job experience or anythinglike that, there can be that,
or also like a lot of just I'mreally finally ready to dedicate
(53:14):
to my healing and really feeldifferent, ready to dedicate to
my healing and really feeldifferent, and I want to do it
now instead of little by littleand so, yeah, so it's just a
different like more concentratedwork, usually multiple days, or
, yeah, concentrated time, andthat can be, yeah, more like
complex trauma.
It can be, yeah, like more, justlike a very specific like I had
(53:38):
this experience that was reallyhard and really overwhelming
recently, or, yeah, that justkeeps coming up and exploring
and so just knowing you havethis container, and with that
too, like I love just how, withthe spaciousness, there's so
much chance for creativity too.
April Snow (53:56):
So just being able to like wherever it feels right
to go as far as how you want toexplore and express and like,
build that trust and comforttogether and all of that is just
right there and that, yeah, acertain amount of time and yeah,
yeah, so beautiful to have thatspace to be able to deep dive,
like we often want to do a senseof people and to have also to
(54:20):
have the room in the session tohave things like creative
process come through, not feelrushed like, oh, we only have 50
minutes, I have to hurry up andget through this.
And how many times have weexperienced that in our lives as
hsps where we're rushed throughour feelings?
yes but this you get to savorand linger and know there's
support right around the corneragain.
(54:42):
So the process keeps moving.
Yeah, yeah, wonderful.
Is that something you offeredjust in Portland, or do you
offer it online for folks inOregon or who can reach out to
you for those?
Lucy Sherman (54:54):
Yeah, so right now it's yeah, just in person, in
person in Portland, oregon, butthere is a chance of yeah just
down the line, a little bit moreonline.
So folks still are welcome toreach out and and it can also be
lovely, yeah, even if it's like, oh, I don't have necessarily
like one trauma, but it's more Ireally want to feel just more
(55:16):
connected to myself, regulated,grounded, creative, all of that,
like that can be really lovelytoo with them.
So, yeah, so mostly just inperson right now, but potential
down the line.
April Snow (55:30):
And I imagine your therapist consultations are for
anywhere.
Or, yes, beautiful, anywhere.
Yes, so yeah, lovely.
Yes, for anywhere.
Or, yes, yeah, beautiful, soyeah, lovely.
Yeah, so many ways for folks towork with you, to connect with
you, whether it's on instagramor through your podcast or the
other resources that you offer,and then for a few special folks
to get to work with you inperson, lovely yeah, and with
(55:55):
the comes much oh it's been justa joy.
Yeah, do you want to mentionabout your consultation?
Lucy Sherman (56:01):
yeah, so just with consultation, like similar to
what I did with my own, likecard pool.
That's just a way to alsoexplore your own practice and
experience and everything as atherapist so we explore through
creativity and cards and reallymake.
I love just the makingsensitive systems that work
really well for you, whetherit's changing your schedule and
(56:24):
to really work for you, orhaving your own little rituals
and between sessions or just awhole, yeah, new, creative way
of doing something.
It's just a joy to do that.
April Snow (56:35):
I love, love that.
Yeah, we really need that asense of therapists having those
supports so we can bringourselves into our work and make
sure we have some space too andthings work for us long-term,
so important.
Yeah, well, lucy, thank youagain.
This is such a lovelyconversation.
Lucy Sherman (56:54):
I loved it.
Yes so wonderful.
April Snow (56:58):
Yes, thank you, and I'll be sure to share all of
those resources that youmentioned in the show notes for
folks they can dive into, theycan reach out to you.
Thanks so much for joining meand Lucy for today's
conversation.
I hope you'll feel inspired tobring more creative supports
(57:20):
into your self-care practice andto help you get started.
Listen to Lucy's podcastTherapy Magic Podcast to learn
more about using creative toolsin your unique healing work.
And if you're a therapistseeking consultation around
creativity or wanting to workwith Lucy as a therapy client in
Portland Oregon, check out theshow notes for more information.
(57:45):
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
(58:05):
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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