March 18, 2025 • 47 mins
Have you been misunderstood and put into a box? In this episode, I talk with Lana Holmes, Psy.D., LCP about the complexities of being highly sensitive and black as well as:
• Honoring your thresholds even if others misinterpret resting as laziness
• Embracing all parts of who you are and loving your sensitivity
• Untangling stereotypes to recognize other people for who they truly are
• How to uplift and include all members of our HSP community
Dr. Lana is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist at the Center for Inclusive Therapy + Wellness. She's passionate about providing therapy that welcomes and celebrates marginalized, oppressed, and stigmatized communities. Her areas of clinical interest and expertise include: the intersection between mental health and spirituality, issues pertaining to BDSM, kink, and ethical non-monogamy; issues pertaining to BIPOC individuals, issues pertaining to LGBTQIA2S+ folx, trauma across the lifespan, life transitions, anxiety disorders, and depressive disorders. She currently has openings for online individual and couples therapy.
Keep in touch with Dr. Lana:
• Website: https://www.inclusivetherapywellness.com/lana
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lana-holmes-psy-d-348972186
• Email: inclusivetherapywellness@gmail.com
Resources Mentioned:
• Kink and Clinical Practice 101 Training: https://www.touchstoneinstitute.org/trainings/kink-and-clinical-practice-101-(self-paced)
• Sacred Rest by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781478921684
• Nap Ministry: https://thenapministry.wordpress.com
Thanks for listening! You can read the full show notes and sign up for my email list to get new episode announcements and other resources at:
https://www.sensitivestories.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Lana Holmes (00:00):
It's important within the broader HSP community
for there to be these ongoingconversations about the cultural
complexities of it.
That way it's not just thewe're all HSPs, all of our
experiences are precisely thesame, and it's like we do have
common experiences and sharedtraits, but then also there's
some nuance to it that needs tobe addressed.
April Snow (00:26):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP,
(00:48):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk with DrLana Holmes about honoring your
limits, even if othersmisinterpret you, resting as
laziness, embracing all parts ofwho you are and loving your
sensitivity and the complexitiesof being highly sensitive and
Black.
Lana is a licensed clinicalpsychologist at the Center for
(01:09):
Inclusive Therapy and Wellness.
She's passionate aboutproviding therapy that welcomes
and celebrates marginalized,oppressed and stigmatized
communities.
Her areas of clinical interestand expertise include the
intersection between mentalhealth and spirituality, issues
(01:31):
pertaining to BDSM, kink andethical non-monogamy.
Issues pertaining to BIPOCindividuals and LGBTQIA2S plus
folks, trauma across thelifespan, life transitions,
anxiety disorders and depressivedisorders.
She currently has openings foronline individual and couples
therapy For more HSP resourcesand to see behind the scenes
video from the podcast, join meon Instagram, tiktok or YouTube
(01:52):
at Sensitive Strengths or signup for my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Hi, dr Lana, it's so nice tohave you here today.
Dr. Lana Holmes (02:34):
Thank you, it's a pleasure April.
April Snow (02:36):
Yeah, thank you.
I'm wondering if we could startoff by hearing your HSP
discovery story how and when yourealized that you're a highly
sensitive person story how andwhen you realize that you're a
highly sensitive person.
Dr. Lana Holmes (02:51):
Oh, I would say that's been a work in progress.
So I would think I mean eversince early childhood I was
aware of I was sensitive.
I was called sensitiveparticularly because I felt
emotions very strongly.
Also, I could detect otherpeople's emotions very easily
and it would just stay with me.
So there would be like scenesfrom a movie or a news story and
something that other peoplecould just shake off and be like
, oh, you know.
(03:12):
Well, we feel a certain type ofway about this, but you know,
we're gonna continue to go onthe rest of the day.
I would be like, uh, and, andit would just stay with me.
But I think, like the term orthe phrase highly sensitive
person is something that I onlybecame aware of more recently
and understanding that it's moreneurological in nature, more
(03:36):
temperament based, and that it'snot just something that, like
you need to overcome or outgrow.
April Snow (03:41):
Yes, exactly, it's so relatable because it does
feel that way, doesn't it?
When we're different from otherpeople.
It's like I just have to getthrough this and change this
about myself.
But, as you're saying, it wasalways there.
Dr. Lana Holmes (03:55):
Yeah, it was always there.
But I think, listening to thestories of other people who
identify as HSPs, it's thatsense of like learning how to
adapt, or really being forced orpressured to adapt, because I
think for me, I very clearlycould detect from other people
or even was just straight outsaid of like you know, yes,
(04:15):
you're sensitive and there'snothing wrong with that, but the
world is tough and rough andyou need to find a way to steel
yourself against that, becausehow are you going to survive?
How are you need to find a wayto steel yourself against that?
Because how are you going tosurvive, how are you going to
function and I understand whatpeople mean by that, because you
do need to find ways toregulate right.
You need to find ways to sootheand to ground yourself but, at
the same time, all of thesereally good qualities that I
(04:39):
associated with being sensitive,being very caring, being very
loving, being very compassionate, being very loving, being very
compassionate it kind of feltlike that wasn't really being
highlighted and it was just kindof like you just need to get
rid of all of that.
April Snow (04:52):
All the good parts.
Dr. Lana Holmes (04:59):
Right, or I don't think even people were
recognizing that asking anyoneto be less sensitive means
you're kind of asking them toget rid of the good parts.
April Snow (05:03):
That's true, because we can't pick, I think
oftentimes we don't recognizewhat our sensitivity does bring
to the table for ourselves andothers.
And people are saying, yeah,get rid of this part, don't be
so emotional or don't be soimpacted, but also then we lose
our empathy and our attention todetail and all the parts get
thrown out.
We can't choose.
Dr. Lana Holmes (05:25):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (05:26):
Yeah, I'm wondering just to add another layer to
this.
You know, what has it been likebeing a highly sensitive Black
woman?
Is that impacted that pressureto be tougher, because that's
something I've heard from otherfolks, or to put the sensitivity
aside, or is what has your beenexperience been like?
Dr. Lana Holmes (05:47):
put the sensitivity aside, or is what
has your been experience beenlike?
Yeah, I think the personalexperience has been in a number
of ways.
I have been told that like Idon't fit this stereotypical
idea of what people have whenthey think about a black woman,
both when within and outside ofmy community, right, even though
there are so many Black peopleand particularly Black cis women
just like me.
At the same time, it's beenlike there's something unusual
(06:12):
about you in terms of yourtemperament or in terms of your
interests, or in terms of like,how you move through the world.
And I think, when it comes tosensitivity, which you and your
audience is probably familiarwith as a strong Black woman,
trope of Black women need to beindomitable.
Black women need to just facewhatever challenge, but also
tied into that, because I'm notjust an HSP, I'm an introvert.
(06:34):
It's like this expectation orthis assumption that Black women
are always extroverted andalways are going to be out in
center and are always going tomake their voices heard, no
matter what.
And so me being a very shy,delicate, gentle Black girl,
particularly when you know, justcoming into awareness about
(06:55):
being very sensitive, it was asense of like who are you.
That's not what you're supposedto be as a Black female.
So there's that, but then alsothere's this idea, particularly
of like.
A part of the stereotype isthat Black women can handle an
inordinate amount of pain, andwe've seen the research on this.
(07:17):
Like particularly in the medicalprofession how there still is a
lingering assumption that Blackpeople, including Black women,
have literally thicker skin, orthat they have a higher pain
threshold, or that we have ahigher pain threshold rather.
April Snow (07:31):
And.
Dr. Lana Holmes (07:32):
I think what that translates to is if you're
a very sensitive person and youcan become easily overly
stimulated, it can be hard tokind of explain to people of
like A.
In general, no one can handlean endless amount of pain or
stress or anything, butespecially if you are highly
sensitive and you're being facedwith stereotypes of like, we
(07:53):
can throw anything at you andyou should be fine.
It's hard and exhausting tokind of constantly advocate for
yourself and to constantly tryto explain and I think one of
the things that's been helpfulabout having more awareness in
psychoeducation, about being ahighly sensitive person, is that
like it gives you something totry to let people know.
(08:15):
Like hey, there's a certainthreshold that I have and I am
more than capable and willing todo the work.
I'm more than capable tocollaborate and help and be a
part of the team and do whatneeds to be done to like benefit
myself and others.
But there's certain thingswhere it's like I've hit the
wall and we need to makeadjustments that way I don't
(08:37):
burn out.
April Snow (08:38):
Yes, you're human, right, you can only take so much
.
And, as you're talking aboutthis pressure to be strong all
the time, that hurts all blackwomen first of all.
But then, if you're highlysensitive, you're introverted,
your need to sacrifice yourselfeven further and the
expectations become more harmfuland unreasonable.
(09:00):
And you brought up aninteresting point, another layer
, which is that in that strength, you also have to be
extroverted.
You have to be on all the time,ready for everything that is so
unreasonable, so harmful.
And so then there's all theselayers of you that are okay.
Not okay to be introverted,it's not okay to be sensitive.
Dr. Lana Holmes (09:21):
And you you said you hit that threshold
sooner than other people, butthen I'm subjected to including
people that are marginalized,oppressed and stigmatized,
(09:48):
including Black women and femmesthen it creates this sense of
like I don't matter and I am atthe behest of other people, like
I am just this thing that ishere to serve other people.
And you know the consequences.
Because we know that when welook at any of the longstanding
(10:10):
research on stress, includingrace-based stress, acculturative
stress, like all of thesedifferent things, both in
general and how it relates tovarious forms of discrimination
and cultural-based issues ingeneral, stress, especially
prolonged and chronic andunrelenting, has a deleterious
effect on mental and physicalhealth and I've definitely felt
(10:30):
that I've definitely had timeswhere I've been pushed to the
brink and still having to facewith people not understanding it
or it being misconstrued aslike laziness or being difficult
ornot wanting to be a team player
and not wanting to contributeenough, and it's like no, and so
almost it can kind of make yousecond guess yourself where
(10:53):
you're just like.
Is it really true?
And of course it's not, becauseif you can point to factual
information, it's like I amputting in the effort and I am
putting in the work and I amcontributing, and you're
continually met with no, youneed to bleed yourself more.
It just starts to get to apoint where you realize, oh no,
it's not a matter of lack ofeffort, it's a matter of, like,
lack of care from the outside.
April Snow (11:15):
Exactly.
Oh, and you said bleed yourselfeven more, Like you're already
bleeding and yet no one isrecognizing that.
Like, how much more do I haveto suffer without being called
lazy or difficult or you knowall the other things that you
hear is dehumanizing?
Right?
You're like an object, Ifyou're comfortable sharing.
(11:38):
Does that messaging come frompeople in your personal life?
Is that more from outside, orboth from?
Dr. Lana Holmes (11:44):
people in your personal life.
Is that more from outside orboth?
I would say it predominantlythat messaging of being lazy,
difficult, not being a teamplayer, not collaborating, has
come from predominantly whitespaces and institutions.
April Snow (11:56):
For sure.
Dr. Lana Holmes (11:57):
Even and this is also the messed up part it's
also come from individuals andinstitutions that have said like
we are inclusive, we arewelcoming and we are
understanding, and so that'sbeen a pain point.
But I think also I mean as somany black women and scholars
(12:17):
and activists and leaders and,just you know, people in general
and femmes as well black femmeshave saying we've always been
the backbone of our community.
And so there's always been thisexpectation of do the most for
your family, for your friends,for your partners for your
community members for the issuesthat directly affect you.
And yet when black women andfemmes step up and say like we
(12:41):
are exhausted, people will feellike but and I mean there
sometimes will be that sense oflike you're being selfish or you
are not down for the cause.
If you are saying I need abreak, I need rest.
I need help.
I can't do this all by myselfon a nonstop basis.
April Snow (12:59):
Right.
So even from those quoteunquote safe spaces, you're
still getting those messages.
You're still getting pressuredto push yourself and sacrifice
yourself and not being heard andsaying like I've done enough,
I'm at my limit, I'm at my limit, and I think particularly we're
talking about women.
Dr. Lana Holmes (13:19):
And femmes.
It's not just about anti-blackracism, it's also about
misogynoir and race-based sexism, and this not only relates
again to Black cisgender women,but Black trans women and Black
femmes who, again, there's somuch that's expected of you and
(13:39):
that's so much little that'sgiven back, so much little
that's given back.
And so it can be a very painfulexperience, but also it's kind
of like a catch 22.
Because you know that if youstop, no one is necessarily
going to come to your aid andthat if nobody else cares about
your life and your humanity, youhave to.
But at the same time it can bea very heartbreaking,
disappointing and lonely andinfuriating, frankly, experience
(14:03):
to be like.
I feel like I'm the mascot orthe token to try to make
everybody else's dreams andaspirations come true to try to
save the day.
And yet when it's like could youplease, like I'm asking
practically and nicely in plainlanguage to just help people,
just being like don't feel likeit.
April Snow (14:24):
I don't know.
Dr. Lana Holmes (14:26):
Maybe you should just work harder, maybe
you should sacrifice a bit more,maybe you should rearrange your
life and so yeah, it's a hardexperience.
April Snow (14:35):
Oh, it's terribly.
I mean terribly hard.
I can obviously.
I haven't lived that, but I canjust imagine just when you're
constantly scraping the bottomof the barrel and it's never
enough.
And you said I'm saying it inplain language, I'm being direct
, I'm advocating for myself Allhard things to do as an HSP, and
yet you know so often thatstill isn't enough.
(14:58):
It's still not being heard.
You're just still expected togive more and more and more and
more.
Dr. Lana Holmes (15:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, expected to give more and
more and more and more.
April Snow (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, you mentioned culture.
I'm wondering, you know we'rekind of talking about the
culture with which HSPs live in,and especially HSPs of color.
How does that influence beingan HSP if we could say more
about that?
Dr. Lana Holmes (15:18):
I think, yeah, I mean it ties into some of what
we already spoke to.
But I think, like in terms ofthese assumptions and
stereotypes and expectationsthat people can have based on
your race?
Or the culture of origin thatyou come from.
I think that within theAfrican-American community in
(15:38):
particular, and more broadlyacross the African diaspora,
there's this kind of expectationof black women coming in to
fill the breach and black womenstepping up to fulfill so many
roles and duties within thecommunity and not necessarily
being fully respected orappreciated or credited or
(16:00):
compensated for that, but it'sjust the expectation you're
going to do this, even if itinvolves a great deal of
suffering and little support.
You know now, there's alwaysbeen, when you look at the
history of Black women andfemmes who have stepped up to be
like, hey, you know we aretrying to provide support or
solve this problem or addressthis like issue that affects us
(16:23):
all Of there being other peopleusually particularly other Black
women and femmes stepping upand going like, yes, we will
help you, but it's notnecessarily as consistent and
long lasting as is needed orhoped for.
April Snow (16:39):
You know.
Dr. Lana Holmes (16:39):
so it's kind of like that twist, but I think
also when we look at the effectsand the ravages of anti-Black
racism, misogynoir, look at theeffects and the ravages of
anti-Black racism, misogynoir,trans misogynoir, race-based
sexism.
I think there has been thisethos within the
African-American community inparticular, and again across the
(17:01):
African diaspora of like look,realistically speaking, you
can't rely on other people tocome to your aid because history
has shown they're notnecessarily going to come in and
help in the way that they maysay that they are in the way
that's needed, and so you haveto toughen yourself up.
(17:21):
I mean, I heard the languageearly on in my life of like you
got to.
You know, life is tough.
You got to prepare yourself forthat.
And you have to make sure thatyou are able to defend yourself,
but also fight back whennecessary.
And that's practical, that'sreal.
But then also, I think it kindof leaves that question of even
(17:42):
though, yes, the evils ofvarious forms of oppression
exist and we can't blanket overthat or minimize it, but always
leaves this question, especiallyfor all of us.
But like who are subjected tooppression, but especially if
you also are very sensitive,like where is there space for
joy, for pleasure, for peace, tojust know that you're safe and
(18:06):
to just know also that you couldbe your full self and not try
to be this model of what peoplewant you to be.
April Snow (18:15):
Yeah, you're constantly being put in such a
tiny box, an impossible box, andyou're saying like you have to
do it all, you have to kind ofhold everything on your own
shoulders.
And there's this message in thewider HSP community like ask
for help, lean on others, right,kind of take some things off,
but if you're a black womanwho's an HSP, that's not an
(18:37):
option, or at least that's notwhat people are going to step in
and support.
So you're out here on your owndealing with all of all the
things, right, right, that seemsimpossible.
All of all the things right,that seems impossible.
Dr. Lana Holmes (18:50):
No, I mean, it's one of those things where
it's like at least in myexperience it's been there are
definitely people, includingwhite people, who identify as
being sensitive, whether it's asan HSP or it's associated with
neurodiversity, et cetera who'vedefinitely been very
compassionate and loving andsupportive and have continued to
like add support.
(19:10):
But you know there also havebeen people, regardless of their
temperament or personality ortheir neurotype, who have not
done that, and so but I thinkit's important, like if people
hear this right and go like,well, that's not right, the
antidote is to step in and toheed the.
(19:33):
This is recording on January28th 2025.
And we are in an especiallytaxing period if you are a black
(19:57):
woman or femme, or if youbelong to any of the
marginalized, oppressed orstigmatized community.
So I would also say it's notjust a matter of asking HSPs who
are marginalized to step up andjust ask for help and advocate
for yourself but like check in,check in with folks, don't just
because when you're alreadybeing hit on multiple sides and
then you're being told, well,you always have to do and yes,
(20:19):
like nobody should be a mindreader or be expected to be that
, and that's not what I'm askingfor, but I'm saying like as a
matter of care, as a matter ofcompassion, be like, let me see
how you're doing, and not justonce in a while, but
consistently Right, exactlyRight.
April Snow (20:36):
That's the piece.
Right.
Let's be allies and communitymembers over time, not just one
and done.
Dr. Lana Holmes (20:43):
Right, oh something big is happening.
I'll check in with this onefriend who I haven't talked with
in years, but then I forgetabout them again, or your
(21:07):
neighbor or whoever.
It is a little spicy, but it'shard not to be spicy.
Yeah.
It's hard not to be spicy rightnow, but I think of it's a time
where, especially if you know itshouldn't take a lot of
handholding and this is what Imean by that is like it is
exhausting, especially if you'vealready had conversations and
(21:27):
presented research and firsthandaccounts and various pieces of
literature, whether it bescholarly books and research or
you know historical accounts oflike.
Let me give you the entirehistory of you know racism and
misogynoir and how it intersectswith other forms of oppression,
(21:48):
and let me tell you about myown firsthand experiences and
accounts.
And then to still see peoplekind of act like they have
amnesia and that they forgot.
And it's kind of at this pointwhere it's like it's not that
you don't know.
And so you need to figure outwhat it is that, even if you
(22:09):
have the knowledge and even ifyou say that you love and care
about people who are vulnerable,that you're still not fully
doing all of the actions thatare necessary and I think one of
the things, too, about being anHSP that I find is that
sometimes people assume thatHSP's are like pushovers or oh,
(22:33):
you know, you can never be angrybecause you're too gentle and
delicate and care about people.
And it's like sweetie if youoverstimulate somebody enough
and take them for granted enoughthat anger will come out, and I
think it's one of those timeswhere it's like do HSPs have a
tremendous wealth of love andcare and compassion for?
April Snow (22:53):
people.
Dr. Lana Holmes (22:53):
Yes, does that motivate us to action?
Yes, does that?
Motivate us to also have acertain level of patience and
understanding for people's flawsand fallibility Absolutely, but
also there are some things thatif you do mess up, it's
important for that to beaddressed so that there can be
correction and improvement.
April Snow (23:15):
Yes.
Dr. Lana Holmes (23:16):
And if people get mad about it, it's valid.
April Snow (23:20):
Yes, well, it's a natural survival response.
If you take, take, take and youpush, push, push, that's
threatening.
You take, take, take and youpush, push, push, that's
threatening.
My nervous system is going toreact to that with anger, with
aggression, whatever it is, tosave myself.
It just seems like there's alot of parallels between being a
sensitive person and a blackwoman who's constantly like,
(23:41):
being pulled on, like give memore of this, give me more of
that.
Either give me more strengthand toughness, or give me more
of your empathy, caregiving,whatever it is Like.
Dr. Lana Holmes (23:50):
no you hit a limit.
Yeah, you do hit a limit and Ithink it's just like and
particularly I think it'simportant within the broader HSP
community for there to be theseongoing conversations about the
cultural complexities of it.
Yeah, that way it's not just the.
We're all HSPs, all of ourexperiences are precisely the
same and it's like we do havecommon experiences and shared
(24:12):
traits, but then also there'ssome nuance to it that needs to
be addressed and it's not beingaddressed to be because, I think
also especially now, I thinksometimes when people talk about
diversity, equity, inclusion,talk about combating systems of
oppression, it's misconstrued asbeing combative or punitive and
(24:34):
it's like it's not, that it'spointing out a problem so that
it can be resolved and there canbe improvements, there can be
solutions, rather than it justbeing like this large, gaping
wound that continues to rot andpoison everybody.
April Snow (24:50):
Exactly.
Well said, Because if we saywhich I firmly believe HSP
spaces are often white spaces,let's be real.
I've been in a lot of HSPspaces.
99% of people are white cis.
So when we point out thesespaces need more work to be
inclusive, that's not pointingfingers at someone just saying
like hey, we have a universalproblem in our HSP community.
(25:12):
How can we solve it?
Because there are HSPs of allcolors, genders, sexes, races,
so let's bring them in, becausewe do have those overlaps.
We also have those differences,and like let's make space for
everybody.
So I'm really happy we'rehaving conversations like this.
Dr. Lana Holmes (25:28):
This is how we start yes, and I think I would
also add for me at least the waythat I conceptualize like any
kind of cultural differences,whether it be about race and
ethnicity, gender identity,sexual orientation, religious or
spiritual affiliation the listgoes on is the issue is when
people try to calibrate thedifferences as if they're ranked
(25:52):
on the level of superiority orinferiority, and instead of just
appreciating the differences.
So when I see people being like,but we shouldn't talk about any
of these differences, or theother extreme that we're all
hopefully trying to fightagainst is like no, no, there
are just some people that arebetter immersed than others is
being able to go like no, wehave differences, but that
(26:15):
doesn't mean that we should rankthem as if there are certain
things that are inherentlyinferior or superior, but just
being like we have differences.
Can we understand and appreciatethose differences, but also,
can we see people for themultifaceted, complex people
that they are, instead of tryingto oversimplify them, instead
(26:35):
of trying to generalize them andinstead?
of trying to put them in veryrigid categories of things is
that, even though the experienceof being Black or a Black woman
and femme is different in anumber of ways from being HSP,
what my hope would be is thatHSPs would relate to that sense
of I can understand what itfeels like to be different and
(27:04):
to be told that this differenceis somehow weak or inferior or
somehow a liability or somehowsomething that is going to need
to be fundamentally changed, ifit can be changed at all.
And be able to go like, okay,it's not exactly the same as
being a racial, ethnic minority,but can I take that and can
(27:27):
that inspire me to be like, ohyeah, I should have this level
of investment.
Can I use this empathy thatcomes with being an HSP to
inspire me to be able to formmeaningful relationships with
other people in the HSPcommunity that maybe aren't
often seen or heard?
Because to me, I think also atthis point in my life, I'm not
(27:49):
just interested in people kindof doing this.
I see that a lot of socialjustice work or social change
work seems to focus a lot onintellectualization of people
just kind of going like I'mcollecting data and then I am
regurgitating it and that's mywork and it's like I think
collecting, disseminatinginformation is powerful and we
have so many examples of it.
(28:10):
But it's one part of this likemultifaceted thing and I think
it's important for people tofocus on relationship building.
So, in addition to being an HSPlike I, am an Air Force brat.
I was born in Germany and spentthe first three years of my
life there.
Our family got to travel andlive in different places around
the world and I was exposed, youknow, to different cultures at
(28:34):
a very early age and I wasencouraged to right Like I was
blessed that I had a family thatdid allow me to form
relationships with people,because there are some people
who don't, especially some whitepeople who don't have that in
their family.
Also, I know that I was blessedto be in spaces that were
diverse, because there were somepeople who they were like.
I was born and raised in aplace that was predominantly
just people like me, and itwasn't until much later in my
(28:57):
life I even have opportunity tobe around a bunch of different
people.
So I know that.
But I think what was veryimportant about that is learning
about different people'sexperiences, not just in the
context of privilege oroppression, but like oh, this is
the history of our people, thisis the history of our nations,
this is the history of ourheritage and our customs.
(29:18):
It really gave me appreciationfor people, but also culture and
also the importance of socialjustice and change, and so to me
it's important for people tohave that visceral experience of
caring, not just because youwent to a workshop, but caring
because you know people fromvarious communities and you love
(29:41):
them.
April Snow (29:42):
Yes, make those connections, build those
relationships, and that's how weshift everything really person
to person.
You talked about how just theoverlaps between being Black,
being sensitive and obviously wecan't change either one of
those things about ourselvesSensitivity is easier to mask.
(30:03):
Obviously, you can't mask thecolor of your skin, but you
could push away your sensitivity, right, you could push it down,
try to deny it.
Do your best to be what'sexpected of you.
You know the strong Black womanwho just does everything for
everybody, which is notsustainable, but you could try.
How do you work with thatdenial, though?
If you're feeling like mysensitivity isn't okay, can we
(30:25):
soften that at all?
I know that's a big question.
Dr. Lana Holmes (30:29):
No, it is.
It's hard because I think for mecoming to terms with being like
a highly sensitive person, ittook a while, like I'm, you know
, I'm significantly into myadulthood and even though I knew
it was sensitive, there was alot of shame around it because I
think there were so manyexperiences where it was kind of
(30:49):
seen as an inconvenience, whereit's like you need to stop
being so sensitive, stop crying,stop you know, like you can't
take in all of this emotion andso you learn how to mask, to
survive, but also try to fit,like it's more than just fitting
in, but to try to like notconstantly be subjected to this
(31:11):
criticism that you beingsensitive is bad and you just
need to bottle that up.
So I think it's a journey and Ithink, when a lot of time and I
ever think about any aspect of aperson's identity or sense of
selfhood or being, I thinksometimes there's this immediate
pressure to go from like I'mkind of confused about who I am
(31:32):
and trying to figure it out tolike I understand exactly who I
am and I feel amazing and I gotthe banner and F anybody who
doesn't get on board and I thinkI wanted to say if you're
someone who you're like, Iunderstand who I am, but I still
have times where I don't feelcomfortable with it.
I still have times where maybeeven I secretly wish that I
(31:55):
wasn't as sensitive or I couldflip it off and on that that's.
Ok, and that that doesn't makeyou any less of a sensitive
person.
That doesn't mean that you arebringing that down the HSP
community or anything like that,like you know, because I think
the journey to finding out whoyou are and being able to accept
(32:15):
that is a very personal one andI think it's important to know
that, like it's normal to havetimes where you feel kind of,
where you vacillate in terms of,like, the degrees of feeling
comfortable and fully groundedand you are to sometimes just
being like why like why?
(32:36):
Out of all the things that Icould have added to my plate in
life.
This is here, you know exactly.
April Snow (32:44):
I appreciate that permission to be imperfect with
your relationship to yoursensitivity, where, yeah, some
days you're going to celebrateit, other days you're going to
dread it, and that is to beexpected.
There are difficult parts ofthis trait and there are really
positive parts, and it candepend who you're with, how
you're seeing it.
You just love externalinfluence and you don't always
(33:07):
have to be in perfect harmonywith it.
That's okay, yeah.
Dr. Lana Holmes (33:11):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (33:12):
As we start to maybe lean into the embracing part.
I know you've talked about howthat can be empowering, that can
be liberating.
Can you help me make thatconnection?
How does that unfold, or howhas it unfolded for you,
acceptance to kind of innerpeace and liberation?
Dr. Lana Holmes (33:30):
Yeah, or how has it unfolded for you?
Acceptance to kind of innerpeace and liberation?
Yeah, I think about it in termsof inner peace and liberation.
I think about so many of us, aspeople in general are made to
feel like you will only be loved, you will only be accepted, you
will only be worthy if you canact, speak, appear in a certain
way for the approval of others,for the approval of community
(33:50):
members, for the approval ofsociety at large.
And so I think when you're ableto say this is who I am and
there is no shame in it, there'snothing about it that is
disgusting or bad or wrong, thatthat's liberating because
you're reclaiming your humanity.
But I think it's even moreparticular like you belong to a
marginalized, oppressed orstigmatized community,
(34:12):
particularly talking about beinga Black woman, slash femme.
It is liberating in the senseof you're saying like I am a
human being and that, regardlessof whatever misinformation that
you got about what you think aBlack woman or femme should be
like, it's like.
This is one of the manyexamples of being a black woman
(34:32):
and femme and I don't have tofit into a checklist, I don't
have to fit into a box.
And if you were out heretripping because you're like I
don't know how to reconcile this, that's your issue.
But it's like.
This is who I am and there's somany people like me and it's
fine, and I am going to be thatway because I can't be anything
(34:55):
else.
Because the process of trying tobe someone else is painful and
and and eventually it can causesignificant emotional and
psychological and evenphysiological harm when you're
trying to adopt a personaconstantly.
And so it's freeing and it'sliberating to actually return to
(35:19):
who you are.
Go with some of the shame I hadas a kid of some of the like
why can't I be like other people?
The loneliness, the sense ofbeing set apart and being able
to go, oh, you know, like eventhough I think inevitably, if
there are negative things thatare part of your life story, you
can't put a smiley face on it.
(35:39):
But I think being able to lookback and go like, oh, these
things that previously had anegative association I'm able to
reclaim and go like actually,this was always a nice thing
about myself.
And I can say now, as an adult,that I really like this about
myself and that this has alwaysbeen a positive trait for me.
(35:59):
It's good, it's empowering.
April Snow (36:01):
So empowering to say you know I'm human, this is who
I am, there's nothing wrongwith it.
And you said you know it's notdisgusting.
Which is like, oh yeah, let'sreally take a look.
Why do I think this is aproblem?
It's okay to be empathetic, tobe emotional, to be sensitive,
to be strong and all of that.
That's beautiful.
There's actually nothing wrongwith it, innately.
(36:22):
So why are we demonizing it somuch?
There's actually nothing wrongwith it innately so why are we
demonizing it so much?
Dr. Lana Holmes (36:29):
Right and it relates to it reminds me of a
lot of the interventions, likecognitive behavioral therapy,
because cognitive behavioraltherapy focuses so much on like
where are the facts?
Instead of just taking thethoughts or the emotional
responses that you use to guideyourself through life at face
value, it's like where did itcome from?
Did it come from a valid source?
(36:49):
And is it factual?
Is it matching the reality andthe accurate information that
you have available?
But, then also is it helpingyou?
April Snow (37:00):
You know?
Yeah, exactly yeah, check itout.
Is it factual, is it real?
And is it factual, is it realand is it helpful?
I think those are two greatquestions to ask when you're
having these thoughts aboutyourself, and just to bring it
back to community.
When we're around others whoare like us, who support us for
me at least, a lot of that shamehas floated away, like, oh,
(37:22):
here's someone else like me, I'mokay.
Yeah, those messages are notreal.
I'm accepted here, I'mappreciated, I can be myself
here, so important.
Well, lana, anything elsebefore we start to wrap up,
anything we didn't get to thatyou thought was important to
share today?
Dr. Lana Holmes (37:41):
No, I think, like we covered all of that.
I think the one thing or theone phrase that comes into my
mind, I feel compelled to share,is love yourself.
And I know we hear a lot ofthese things like there's so
many means, or, you know, youand me are old enough to
remember bumper stickers A lotof those you know and
(38:01):
sloganeering, or even those likehang in there, baby, and other
inspirational posters that werehung all over our schools.
I know that sometimes thosephrases have been used ad
nauseum, where people are likedoes it even mean anything
anymore?
But really love yourself, andthe importance of that is like.
The world is hard enough.
Life, especially right now.
(38:21):
It's hard enough that hatingyourself is corrosive, and so it
is important to find a way tolove yourself.
It is important to find a wayto make peace with yourself.
April Snow (38:33):
Yeah, I personally see that as an act of defiance
in our culture Like I'm going tofind joy, I'm going to self
love all of it.
How can we counteract whatwe're seeing and create more joy
and safety and community?
Yeah, that's been my anchor inall this.
Dr. Lana Holmes (38:51):
Yeah, oh no.
Definitely, I've definitelybeen leaning on the works of
people like Trisha Hersey withthe.
NAP ministry, like RestlessResistance that's been like so
transformative for me, as wellas the book I'm currently in the
middle of by Dr Sandra DaltonSmith called Sacred Rest, and
then also just the work of AudreLorde that focused on like
(39:14):
taking care of oneself as an actof political resistance and so
again drawing back to culture ofhow all of these Black women
have been just continuing tolead the cause, you know, not
just for other black women andfemmes but also for hopefully
all people to just be likereally embrace the sanctity of
(39:35):
rest, really embrace thesanctity of again making peace
with who you are, you know, andnot just being an intellectual
thing, but also being somethingthat you can fill in your body
and in your soul you have somuch gratitude to give to black
women, I mean, have given us somuch and I'll definitely be sure
(39:57):
to share those resources in theshow notes for folks, and
because rest is resistance andwe need more of that.
April Snow (40:03):
Especially women of color deserve it the most, or
need it the most.
Also deserve it, yeah, yeah.
Any other thoughts?
Dr. Lana Holmes (40:11):
oh yeah, and I think like to that point,
because one of the things I lookat is looking at it like even
though these are resources thatwere definitely designed by
black women for black women, um,and it's important to give
credit you know, we're creditedto do for that.
My hope is that also othercommunities will be able to take
inspiration from this and thatwe all can be able to join
(40:33):
forces and work together aroundit of your lives.
It's important for all of us towork together to dismantle
systems of repression.
I know we're at the end, but,like to me at least, one of the
(40:53):
things I look at is like systemsof repression also hurt
privileged people in differentsenses as well, because when we
look at diversity and equity andinclusion research, it's shown
that everybody, including peoplefrom dominant or privileged
groups, benefit when there aremore people on staff in schools
and in medical spaces that arediverse, and so I know sometimes
(41:14):
when we talk about this, I cansee how people can be
intimidated and go like oh, Ifeel like this isn't for me
because I'm not a Black woman orfemme, or I feel like this
isn't something I should betaking part in, and it's like
we're all interconnected, right.
April Snow (41:30):
We're all impacted by each other.
I think our yeah, our biggestproblem is that we're
segregating and dividing so much.
We've lost that sense ofhumanity and to see people and
like we all need each other.
Dr. Lana Holmes (41:43):
Right, let's just come together here right,
we all need each other, andyou's just come together here.
Right, we all need each otherand you know it might.
the answers might not be simple,and it might not be something
where it's like oh, I justlearned this concept and that's
it.
But I think it's importantagain for people to rediscover
what it's like to havemeaningful relationships with
(42:03):
people that embrace all of whowe are, and not just the
negative, harmful bits, but alsothe fun bits.
Like you and me didn't even getinto our favorite bands today,
so that's true.
April Snow (42:15):
Follow up that's true.
There's so much more to say.
Oh, alana, thank you so muchfor this beautiful conversation.
It's such an important one tohave right now always, but
especially right now and inaddition to those helpful
resources you shared, I'll besure to include ways for folks
to get in contact with you yourwebsite, your email.
(42:35):
You also have some continuingeducation resources for
therapists and mental healthproviders.
Yeah, before we go, though, I'mwondering if you could share
just a little bit more aboutworking with you for folks who
are interested?
Dr. Lana Holmes (42:47):
yeah, no, it'd be my pleasure.
So I am a licensed clinicalpsychologist.
I'm based in the state ofgeorgia, but I also have a
sci-pak licensure for folks whoreside in all sci-pak member
states, and the practice thatI'm a part of is the center for
inclusive therapy and wellnesspractice, and so I see folks in
individual and couplesteletherapy, so that would be
(43:08):
online for folks who are notaware about the term teletherapy
.
And, yeah, if you go to thelink that's provided in the show
notes, you can feel free tobook a session with me.
A lot of my work focuses on,you know, trauma and
stress-related disordersdepressive disorders, anxiety
disorders.
Also working with variousmarginalized, oppressed and
stigmatized communities it'sshocker, right Like after this
(43:32):
hour so that not only includeswomen and femmes, but also
members of the queer community,bipoc folks, members of the BSM
and kink communities, members ofthe ethical non-monogamy
community, but also I loveworking around people in the
intersections of myself andspirituality, life change and
transformation issues, but alsoaround grief and loss.
(43:53):
So, yeah, there's a lot ofreally rich, rewarding work that
I enjoy doing with people there.
And then with the TouchstoneInstitute, which is a really
great continuing educationorganization Institute, which is
a really great continuingeducation organization, I have a
kink and clinical practice 101continuing education course
that's available online andself-paced.
It was designed specificallyfor licensed mental health
(44:15):
professionals, but also traineesin the mental health field, who
perhaps have heard about BDSMand kink, but they're still
really green to it and want toknow more about effectively
working with these populations,so it was designed to be a nice
introductory overview for people.
April Snow (44:31):
Beautiful.
I love it.
You're just creating so muchspace for folks in your practice
and in the work that you do and, again, just really appreciate
you sharing with us today.
Dr. Lana Holmes (44:41):
Yeah, it's really been such a pleasure and
thank you, april of like when Ifound out about your work, and
not just with this podcast.
But everything that you'redoing in terms of advocating for
sensitivity.
It just delighted my heart.
I was like this is so nice.
I was like I feel so warm andcozy and I'm so happy.
And again, I remember, like theblog post that you said about
(45:11):
going to a concert, I think atRed Rocks, and remembering the
band and the experience andcrying I was like.
April Snow (45:13):
I've had that experience too.
I know we definitely need totalk about our favorite bands at
some point, because music is abig part of my life.
It's so emotional yeah.
Dr. Lana Holmes (45:20):
Me too.
April Snow (45:21):
Thank you so much, you're welcome, thank you.
Thanks so much for joining meand Lana for today's
conversation.
What I hope you're taking awayis that there's nothing wrong
with being more sensitive andthat it's okay to honor your
(45:42):
thresholds, whoever you are.
If you're interested in workingwith Dr Lana, go to
inclusivetherapywellnesscom.
Slash Lana L-A-N-A or head tothe show notes for more
resources.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated
(46:07):
conversations, reviews andratings are also helpful and
appreciated Forbehind-the-scenes content and
more HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
It's important within the broader HSP community
for there to be these ongoingconversations about the cultural
complexities of it.
That way it's not just thewe're all HSPs, all of our
experiences are precisely thesame, and it's like we do have
common experiences and sharedtraits, but then also there's
some nuance to it that needs tobe addressed.
April Snow (00:26):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP,
(00:48):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk with DrLana Holmes about honoring your
limits, even if othersmisinterpret you, resting as
laziness, embracing all parts ofwho you are and loving your
sensitivity and the complexitiesof being highly sensitive and
Black.
Lana is a licensed clinicalpsychologist at the Center for
(01:09):
Inclusive Therapy and Wellness.
She's passionate aboutproviding therapy that welcomes
and celebrates marginalized,oppressed and stigmatized
communities.
Her areas of clinical interestand expertise include the
intersection between mentalhealth and spirituality, issues
(01:31):
pertaining to BDSM, kink andethical non-monogamy.
Issues pertaining to BIPOCindividuals and LGBTQIA2S plus
folks, trauma across thelifespan, life transitions,
anxiety disorders and depressivedisorders.
She currently has openings foronline individual and couples
therapy For more HSP resourcesand to see behind the scenes
video from the podcast, join meon Instagram, tiktok or YouTube
(01:52):
at Sensitive Strengths or signup for my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Hi, dr Lana, it's so nice tohave you here today.
Dr. Lana Holmes (02:34):
Thank you, it's a pleasure April.
April Snow (02:36):
Yeah, thank you.
I'm wondering if we could startoff by hearing your HSP
discovery story how and when yourealized that you're a highly
sensitive person story how andwhen you realize that you're a
highly sensitive person.
Dr. Lana Holmes (02:51):
Oh, I would say that's been a work in progress.
So I would think I mean eversince early childhood I was
aware of I was sensitive.
I was called sensitiveparticularly because I felt
emotions very strongly.
Also, I could detect otherpeople's emotions very easily
and it would just stay with me.
So there would be like scenesfrom a movie or a news story and
something that other peoplecould just shake off and be like
, oh, you know.
(03:12):
Well, we feel a certain type ofway about this, but you know,
we're gonna continue to go onthe rest of the day.
I would be like, uh, and, andit would just stay with me.
But I think, like the term orthe phrase highly sensitive
person is something that I onlybecame aware of more recently
and understanding that it's moreneurological in nature, more
(03:36):
temperament based, and that it'snot just something that, like
you need to overcome or outgrow.
April Snow (03:41):
Yes, exactly, it's so relatable because it does
feel that way, doesn't it?
When we're different from otherpeople.
It's like I just have to getthrough this and change this
about myself.
But, as you're saying, it wasalways there.
Dr. Lana Holmes (03:55):
Yeah, it was always there.
But I think, listening to thestories of other people who
identify as HSPs, it's thatsense of like learning how to
adapt, or really being forced orpressured to adapt, because I
think for me, I very clearlycould detect from other people
or even was just straight outsaid of like you know, yes,
(04:15):
you're sensitive and there'snothing wrong with that, but the
world is tough and rough andyou need to find a way to steel
yourself against that, becausehow are you going to survive?
How are you need to find a wayto steel yourself against that?
Because how are you going tosurvive, how are you going to
function and I understand whatpeople mean by that, because you
do need to find ways toregulate right.
You need to find ways to sootheand to ground yourself but, at
the same time, all of thesereally good qualities that I
(04:39):
associated with being sensitive,being very caring, being very
loving, being very compassionate, being very loving, being very
compassionate it kind of feltlike that wasn't really being
highlighted and it was just kindof like you just need to get
rid of all of that.
April Snow (04:52):
All the good parts.
Dr. Lana Holmes (04:59):
Right, or I don't think even people were
recognizing that asking anyoneto be less sensitive means
you're kind of asking them toget rid of the good parts.
April Snow (05:03):
That's true, because we can't pick, I think
oftentimes we don't recognizewhat our sensitivity does bring
to the table for ourselves andothers.
And people are saying, yeah,get rid of this part, don't be
so emotional or don't be soimpacted, but also then we lose
our empathy and our attention todetail and all the parts get
thrown out.
We can't choose.
Dr. Lana Holmes (05:25):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (05:26):
Yeah, I'm wondering just to add another layer to
this.
You know, what has it been likebeing a highly sensitive Black
woman?
Is that impacted that pressureto be tougher, because that's
something I've heard from otherfolks, or to put the sensitivity
aside, or is what has your beenexperience been like?
Dr. Lana Holmes (05:47):
put the sensitivity aside, or is what
has your been experience beenlike?
Yeah, I think the personalexperience has been in a number
of ways.
I have been told that like Idon't fit this stereotypical
idea of what people have whenthey think about a black woman,
both when within and outside ofmy community, right, even though
there are so many Black peopleand particularly Black cis women
just like me.
At the same time, it's beenlike there's something unusual
(06:12):
about you in terms of yourtemperament or in terms of your
interests, or in terms of like,how you move through the world.
And I think, when it comes tosensitivity, which you and your
audience is probably familiarwith as a strong Black woman,
trope of Black women need to beindomitable.
Black women need to just facewhatever challenge, but also
tied into that, because I'm notjust an HSP, I'm an introvert.
(06:34):
It's like this expectation orthis assumption that Black women
are always extroverted andalways are going to be out in
center and are always going tomake their voices heard, no
matter what.
And so me being a very shy,delicate, gentle Black girl,
particularly when you know, justcoming into awareness about
(06:55):
being very sensitive, it was asense of like who are you.
That's not what you're supposedto be as a Black female.
So there's that, but then alsothere's this idea, particularly
of like.
A part of the stereotype isthat Black women can handle an
inordinate amount of pain, andwe've seen the research on this.
(07:17):
Like particularly in the medicalprofession how there still is a
lingering assumption that Blackpeople, including Black women,
have literally thicker skin, orthat they have a higher pain
threshold, or that we have ahigher pain threshold rather.
April Snow (07:31):
And.
Dr. Lana Holmes (07:32):
I think what that translates to is if you're
a very sensitive person and youcan become easily overly
stimulated, it can be hard tokind of explain to people of
like A.
In general, no one can handlean endless amount of pain or
stress or anything, butespecially if you are highly
sensitive and you're being facedwith stereotypes of like, we
(07:53):
can throw anything at you andyou should be fine.
It's hard and exhausting tokind of constantly advocate for
yourself and to constantly tryto explain and I think one of
the things that's been helpfulabout having more awareness in
psychoeducation, about being ahighly sensitive person, is that
like it gives you something totry to let people know.
(08:15):
Like hey, there's a certainthreshold that I have and I am
more than capable and willing todo the work.
I'm more than capable tocollaborate and help and be a
part of the team and do whatneeds to be done to like benefit
myself and others.
But there's certain thingswhere it's like I've hit the
wall and we need to makeadjustments that way I don't
(08:37):
burn out.
April Snow (08:38):
Yes, you're human, right, you can only take so much
.
And, as you're talking aboutthis pressure to be strong all
the time, that hurts all blackwomen first of all.
But then, if you're highlysensitive, you're introverted,
your need to sacrifice yourselfeven further and the
expectations become more harmfuland unreasonable.
(09:00):
And you brought up aninteresting point, another layer
, which is that in that strength, you also have to be
extroverted.
You have to be on all the time,ready for everything that is so
unreasonable, so harmful.
And so then there's all theselayers of you that are okay.
Not okay to be introverted,it's not okay to be sensitive.
Dr. Lana Holmes (09:21):
And you you said you hit that threshold
sooner than other people, butthen I'm subjected to including
people that are marginalized,oppressed and stigmatized,
(09:48):
including Black women and femmesthen it creates this sense of
like I don't matter and I am atthe behest of other people, like
I am just this thing that ishere to serve other people.
And you know the consequences.
Because we know that when welook at any of the longstanding
(10:10):
research on stress, includingrace-based stress, acculturative
stress, like all of thesedifferent things, both in
general and how it relates tovarious forms of discrimination
and cultural-based issues ingeneral, stress, especially
prolonged and chronic andunrelenting, has a deleterious
effect on mental and physicalhealth and I've definitely felt
(10:30):
that I've definitely had timeswhere I've been pushed to the
brink and still having to facewith people not understanding it
or it being misconstrued aslike laziness or being difficult
ornot wanting to be a team player
and not wanting to contributeenough, and it's like no, and so
almost it can kind of make yousecond guess yourself where
(10:53):
you're just like.
Is it really true?
And of course it's not, becauseif you can point to factual
information, it's like I amputting in the effort and I am
putting in the work and I amcontributing, and you're
continually met with no, youneed to bleed yourself more.
It just starts to get to apoint where you realize, oh no,
it's not a matter of lack ofeffort, it's a matter of, like,
lack of care from the outside.
April Snow (11:15):
Exactly.
Oh, and you said bleed yourselfeven more, Like you're already
bleeding and yet no one isrecognizing that.
Like, how much more do I haveto suffer without being called
lazy or difficult or you knowall the other things that you
hear is dehumanizing?
Right?
You're like an object, Ifyou're comfortable sharing.
(11:38):
Does that messaging come frompeople in your personal life?
Is that more from outside, orboth from?
Dr. Lana Holmes (11:44):
people in your personal life.
Is that more from outside orboth?
I would say it predominantlythat messaging of being lazy,
difficult, not being a teamplayer, not collaborating, has
come from predominantly whitespaces and institutions.
April Snow (11:56):
For sure.
Dr. Lana Holmes (11:57):
Even and this is also the messed up part it's
also come from individuals andinstitutions that have said like
we are inclusive, we arewelcoming and we are
understanding, and so that'sbeen a pain point.
But I think also I mean as somany black women and scholars
(12:17):
and activists and leaders and,just you know, people in general
and femmes as well black femmeshave saying we've always been
the backbone of our community.
And so there's always been thisexpectation of do the most for
your family, for your friends,for your partners for your
community members for the issuesthat directly affect you.
And yet when black women andfemmes step up and say like we
(12:41):
are exhausted, people will feellike but and I mean there
sometimes will be that sense oflike you're being selfish or you
are not down for the cause.
If you are saying I need abreak, I need rest.
I need help.
I can't do this all by myselfon a nonstop basis.
April Snow (12:59):
Right.
So even from those quoteunquote safe spaces, you're
still getting those messages.
You're still getting pressuredto push yourself and sacrifice
yourself and not being heard andsaying like I've done enough,
I'm at my limit, I'm at my limit, and I think particularly we're
talking about women.
Dr. Lana Holmes (13:19):
And femmes.
It's not just about anti-blackracism, it's also about
misogynoir and race-based sexism, and this not only relates
again to Black cisgender women,but Black trans women and Black
femmes who, again, there's somuch that's expected of you and
(13:39):
that's so much little that'sgiven back, so much little
that's given back.
And so it can be a very painfulexperience, but also it's kind
of like a catch 22.
Because you know that if youstop, no one is necessarily
going to come to your aid andthat if nobody else cares about
your life and your humanity, youhave to.
But at the same time it can bea very heartbreaking,
disappointing and lonely andinfuriating, frankly, experience
(14:03):
to be like.
I feel like I'm the mascot orthe token to try to make
everybody else's dreams andaspirations come true to try to
save the day.
And yet when it's like could youplease, like I'm asking
practically and nicely in plainlanguage to just help people,
just being like don't feel likeit.
April Snow (14:24):
I don't know.
Dr. Lana Holmes (14:26):
Maybe you should just work harder, maybe
you should sacrifice a bit more,maybe you should rearrange your
life and so yeah, it's a hardexperience.
April Snow (14:35):
Oh, it's terribly.
I mean terribly hard.
I can obviously.
I haven't lived that, but I canjust imagine just when you're
constantly scraping the bottomof the barrel and it's never
enough.
And you said I'm saying it inplain language, I'm being direct
, I'm advocating for myself Allhard things to do as an HSP, and
yet you know so often thatstill isn't enough.
(14:58):
It's still not being heard.
You're just still expected togive more and more and more and
more.
Dr. Lana Holmes (15:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, expected to give more and
more and more and more.
April Snow (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, you mentioned culture.
I'm wondering, you know we'rekind of talking about the
culture with which HSPs live in,and especially HSPs of color.
How does that influence beingan HSP if we could say more
about that?
Dr. Lana Holmes (15:18):
I think, yeah, I mean it ties into some of what
we already spoke to.
But I think, like in terms ofthese assumptions and
stereotypes and expectationsthat people can have based on
your race?
Or the culture of origin thatyou come from.
I think that within theAfrican-American community in
(15:38):
particular, and more broadlyacross the African diaspora,
there's this kind of expectationof black women coming in to
fill the breach and black womenstepping up to fulfill so many
roles and duties within thecommunity and not necessarily
being fully respected orappreciated or credited or
(16:00):
compensated for that, but it'sjust the expectation you're
going to do this, even if itinvolves a great deal of
suffering and little support.
You know now, there's alwaysbeen, when you look at the
history of Black women andfemmes who have stepped up to be
like, hey, you know we aretrying to provide support or
solve this problem or addressthis like issue that affects us
(16:23):
all Of there being other peopleusually particularly other Black
women and femmes stepping upand going like, yes, we will
help you, but it's notnecessarily as consistent and
long lasting as is needed orhoped for.
April Snow (16:39):
You know.
Dr. Lana Holmes (16:39):
so it's kind of like that twist, but I think
also when we look at the effectsand the ravages of anti-Black
racism, misogynoir, look at theeffects and the ravages of
anti-Black racism, misogynoir,trans misogynoir, race-based
sexism.
I think there has been thisethos within the
African-American community inparticular, and again across the
(17:01):
African diaspora of like look,realistically speaking, you
can't rely on other people tocome to your aid because history
has shown they're notnecessarily going to come in and
help in the way that they maysay that they are in the way
that's needed, and so you haveto toughen yourself up.
(17:21):
I mean, I heard the languageearly on in my life of like you
got to.
You know, life is tough.
You got to prepare yourself forthat.
And you have to make sure thatyou are able to defend yourself,
but also fight back whennecessary.
And that's practical, that'sreal.
But then also, I think it kindof leaves that question of even
(17:42):
though, yes, the evils ofvarious forms of oppression
exist and we can't blanket overthat or minimize it, but always
leaves this question, especiallyfor all of us.
But like who are subjected tooppression, but especially if
you also are very sensitive,like where is there space for
joy, for pleasure, for peace, tojust know that you're safe and
(18:06):
to just know also that you couldbe your full self and not try
to be this model of what peoplewant you to be.
April Snow (18:15):
Yeah, you're constantly being put in such a
tiny box, an impossible box, andyou're saying like you have to
do it all, you have to kind ofhold everything on your own
shoulders.
And there's this message in thewider HSP community like ask
for help, lean on others, right,kind of take some things off,
but if you're a black womanwho's an HSP, that's not an
(18:37):
option, or at least that's notwhat people are going to step in
and support.
So you're out here on your owndealing with all of all the
things, right, right, that seemsimpossible.
All of all the things right,that seems impossible.
Dr. Lana Holmes (18:50):
No, I mean, it's one of those things where
it's like at least in myexperience it's been there are
definitely people, includingwhite people, who identify as
being sensitive, whether it's asan HSP or it's associated with
neurodiversity, et cetera who'vedefinitely been very
compassionate and loving andsupportive and have continued to
like add support.
(19:10):
But you know there also havebeen people, regardless of their
temperament or personality ortheir neurotype, who have not
done that, and so but I thinkit's important, like if people
hear this right and go like,well, that's not right, the
antidote is to step in and toheed the.
(19:33):
This is recording on January28th 2025.
And we are in an especiallytaxing period if you are a black
(19:57):
woman or femme, or if youbelong to any of the
marginalized, oppressed orstigmatized community.
So I would also say it's notjust a matter of asking HSPs who
are marginalized to step up andjust ask for help and advocate
for yourself but like check in,check in with folks, don't just
because when you're alreadybeing hit on multiple sides and
then you're being told, well,you always have to do and yes,
(20:19):
like nobody should be a mindreader or be expected to be that
, and that's not what I'm askingfor, but I'm saying like as a
matter of care, as a matter ofcompassion, be like, let me see
how you're doing, and not justonce in a while, but
consistently Right, exactlyRight.
April Snow (20:36):
That's the piece.
Right.
Let's be allies and communitymembers over time, not just one
and done.
Dr. Lana Holmes (20:43):
Right, oh something big is happening.
I'll check in with this onefriend who I haven't talked with
in years, but then I forgetabout them again, or your
(21:07):
neighbor or whoever.
It is a little spicy, but it'shard not to be spicy.
Yeah.
It's hard not to be spicy rightnow, but I think of it's a time
where, especially if you know itshouldn't take a lot of
handholding and this is what Imean by that is like it is
exhausting, especially if you'vealready had conversations and
(21:27):
presented research and firsthandaccounts and various pieces of
literature, whether it bescholarly books and research or
you know historical accounts oflike.
Let me give you the entirehistory of you know racism and
misogynoir and how it intersectswith other forms of oppression,
(21:48):
and let me tell you about myown firsthand experiences and
accounts.
And then to still see peoplekind of act like they have
amnesia and that they forgot.
And it's kind of at this pointwhere it's like it's not that
you don't know.
And so you need to figure outwhat it is that, even if you
(22:09):
have the knowledge and even ifyou say that you love and care
about people who are vulnerable,that you're still not fully
doing all of the actions thatare necessary and I think one of
the things, too, about being anHSP that I find is that
sometimes people assume thatHSP's are like pushovers or oh,
(22:33):
you know, you can never be angrybecause you're too gentle and
delicate and care about people.
And it's like sweetie if youoverstimulate somebody enough
and take them for granted enoughthat anger will come out, and I
think it's one of those timeswhere it's like do HSPs have a
tremendous wealth of love andcare and compassion for?
April Snow (22:53):
people.
Dr. Lana Holmes (22:53):
Yes, does that motivate us to action?
Yes, does that?
Motivate us to also have acertain level of patience and
understanding for people's flawsand fallibility Absolutely, but
also there are some things thatif you do mess up, it's
important for that to beaddressed so that there can be
correction and improvement.
April Snow (23:15):
Yes.
Dr. Lana Holmes (23:16):
And if people get mad about it, it's valid.
April Snow (23:20):
Yes, well, it's a natural survival response.
If you take, take, take and youpush, push, push, that's
threatening.
You take, take, take and youpush, push, push, that's
threatening.
My nervous system is going toreact to that with anger, with
aggression, whatever it is, tosave myself.
It just seems like there's alot of parallels between being a
sensitive person and a blackwoman who's constantly like,
(23:41):
being pulled on, like give memore of this, give me more of
that.
Either give me more strengthand toughness, or give me more
of your empathy, caregiving,whatever it is Like.
Dr. Lana Holmes (23:50):
no you hit a limit.
Yeah, you do hit a limit and Ithink it's just like and
particularly I think it'simportant within the broader HSP
community for there to be theseongoing conversations about the
cultural complexities of it.
Yeah, that way it's not just the.
We're all HSPs, all of ourexperiences are precisely the
same and it's like we do havecommon experiences and shared
(24:12):
traits, but then also there'ssome nuance to it that needs to
be addressed and it's not beingaddressed to be because, I think
also especially now, I thinksometimes when people talk about
diversity, equity, inclusion,talk about combating systems of
oppression, it's misconstrued asbeing combative or punitive and
(24:34):
it's like it's not, that it'spointing out a problem so that
it can be resolved and there canbe improvements, there can be
solutions, rather than it justbeing like this large, gaping
wound that continues to rot andpoison everybody.
April Snow (24:50):
Exactly.
Well said, Because if we saywhich I firmly believe HSP
spaces are often white spaces,let's be real.
I've been in a lot of HSPspaces.
99% of people are white cis.
So when we point out thesespaces need more work to be
inclusive, that's not pointingfingers at someone just saying
like hey, we have a universalproblem in our HSP community.
(25:12):
How can we solve it?
Because there are HSPs of allcolors, genders, sexes, races,
so let's bring them in, becausewe do have those overlaps.
We also have those differences,and like let's make space for
everybody.
So I'm really happy we'rehaving conversations like this.
Dr. Lana Holmes (25:28):
This is how we start yes, and I think I would
also add for me at least the waythat I conceptualize like any
kind of cultural differences,whether it be about race and
ethnicity, gender identity,sexual orientation, religious or
spiritual affiliation the listgoes on is the issue is when
people try to calibrate thedifferences as if they're ranked
(25:52):
on the level of superiority orinferiority, and instead of just
appreciating the differences.
So when I see people being like,but we shouldn't talk about any
of these differences, or theother extreme that we're all
hopefully trying to fightagainst is like no, no, there
are just some people that arebetter immersed than others is
being able to go like no, wehave differences, but that
(26:15):
doesn't mean that we should rankthem as if there are certain
things that are inherentlyinferior or superior, but just
being like we have differences.
Can we understand and appreciatethose differences, but also,
can we see people for themultifaceted, complex people
that they are, instead of tryingto oversimplify them, instead
(26:35):
of trying to generalize them andinstead?
of trying to put them in veryrigid categories of things is
that, even though the experienceof being Black or a Black woman
and femme is different in anumber of ways from being HSP,
what my hope would be is thatHSPs would relate to that sense
of I can understand what itfeels like to be different and
(27:04):
to be told that this differenceis somehow weak or inferior or
somehow a liability or somehowsomething that is going to need
to be fundamentally changed, ifit can be changed at all.
And be able to go like, okay,it's not exactly the same as
being a racial, ethnic minority,but can I take that and can
(27:27):
that inspire me to be like, ohyeah, I should have this level
of investment.
Can I use this empathy thatcomes with being an HSP to
inspire me to be able to formmeaningful relationships with
other people in the HSPcommunity that maybe aren't
often seen or heard?
Because to me, I think also atthis point in my life, I'm not
(27:49):
just interested in people kindof doing this.
I see that a lot of socialjustice work or social change
work seems to focus a lot onintellectualization of people
just kind of going like I'mcollecting data and then I am
regurgitating it and that's mywork and it's like I think
collecting, disseminatinginformation is powerful and we
have so many examples of it.
(28:10):
But it's one part of this likemultifaceted thing and I think
it's important for people tofocus on relationship building.
So, in addition to being an HSPlike I, am an Air Force brat.
I was born in Germany and spentthe first three years of my
life there.
Our family got to travel andlive in different places around
the world and I was exposed, youknow, to different cultures at
(28:34):
a very early age and I wasencouraged to right Like I was
blessed that I had a family thatdid allow me to form
relationships with people,because there are some people
who don't, especially some whitepeople who don't have that in
their family.
Also, I know that I was blessedto be in spaces that were
diverse, because there were somepeople who they were like.
I was born and raised in aplace that was predominantly
just people like me, and itwasn't until much later in my
(28:57):
life I even have opportunity tobe around a bunch of different
people.
So I know that.
But I think what was veryimportant about that is learning
about different people'sexperiences, not just in the
context of privilege oroppression, but like oh, this is
the history of our people, thisis the history of our nations,
this is the history of ourheritage and our customs.
(29:18):
It really gave me appreciationfor people, but also culture and
also the importance of socialjustice and change, and so to me
it's important for people tohave that visceral experience of
caring, not just because youwent to a workshop, but caring
because you know people fromvarious communities and you love
(29:41):
them.
April Snow (29:42):
Yes, make those connections, build those
relationships, and that's how weshift everything really person
to person.
You talked about how just theoverlaps between being Black,
being sensitive and obviously wecan't change either one of
those things about ourselvesSensitivity is easier to mask.
(30:03):
Obviously, you can't mask thecolor of your skin, but you
could push away your sensitivity, right, you could push it down,
try to deny it.
Do your best to be what'sexpected of you.
You know the strong Black womanwho just does everything for
everybody, which is notsustainable, but you could try.
How do you work with thatdenial, though?
If you're feeling like mysensitivity isn't okay, can we
(30:25):
soften that at all?
I know that's a big question.
Dr. Lana Holmes (30:29):
No, it is.
It's hard because I think for mecoming to terms with being like
a highly sensitive person, ittook a while, like I'm, you know
, I'm significantly into myadulthood and even though I knew
it was sensitive, there was alot of shame around it because I
think there were so manyexperiences where it was kind of
(30:49):
seen as an inconvenience, whereit's like you need to stop
being so sensitive, stop crying,stop you know, like you can't
take in all of this emotion andso you learn how to mask, to
survive, but also try to fit,like it's more than just fitting
in, but to try to like notconstantly be subjected to this
(31:11):
criticism that you beingsensitive is bad and you just
need to bottle that up.
So I think it's a journey and Ithink, when a lot of time and I
ever think about any aspect of aperson's identity or sense of
selfhood or being, I thinksometimes there's this immediate
pressure to go from like I'mkind of confused about who I am
(31:32):
and trying to figure it out tolike I understand exactly who I
am and I feel amazing and I gotthe banner and F anybody who
doesn't get on board and I thinkI wanted to say if you're
someone who you're like, Iunderstand who I am, but I still
have times where I don't feelcomfortable with it.
I still have times where maybeeven I secretly wish that I
(31:55):
wasn't as sensitive or I couldflip it off and on that that's.
Ok, and that that doesn't makeyou any less of a sensitive
person.
That doesn't mean that you arebringing that down the HSP
community or anything like that,like you know, because I think
the journey to finding out whoyou are and being able to accept
(32:15):
that is a very personal one andI think it's important to know
that, like it's normal to havetimes where you feel kind of,
where you vacillate in terms of,like, the degrees of feeling
comfortable and fully groundedand you are to sometimes just
being like why like why?
(32:36):
Out of all the things that Icould have added to my plate in
life.
This is here, you know exactly.
April Snow (32:44):
I appreciate that permission to be imperfect with
your relationship to yoursensitivity, where, yeah, some
days you're going to celebrateit, other days you're going to
dread it, and that is to beexpected.
There are difficult parts ofthis trait and there are really
positive parts, and it candepend who you're with, how
you're seeing it.
You just love externalinfluence and you don't always
(33:07):
have to be in perfect harmonywith it.
That's okay, yeah.
Dr. Lana Holmes (33:11):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (33:12):
As we start to maybe lean into the embracing part.
I know you've talked about howthat can be empowering, that can
be liberating.
Can you help me make thatconnection?
How does that unfold, or howhas it unfolded for you,
acceptance to kind of innerpeace and liberation?
Dr. Lana Holmes (33:30):
Yeah, or how has it unfolded for you?
Acceptance to kind of innerpeace and liberation?
Yeah, I think about it in termsof inner peace and liberation.
I think about so many of us, aspeople in general are made to
feel like you will only be loved, you will only be accepted, you
will only be worthy if you canact, speak, appear in a certain
way for the approval of others,for the approval of community
(33:50):
members, for the approval ofsociety at large.
And so I think when you're ableto say this is who I am and
there is no shame in it, there'snothing about it that is
disgusting or bad or wrong, thatthat's liberating because
you're reclaiming your humanity.
But I think it's even moreparticular like you belong to a
marginalized, oppressed orstigmatized community,
(34:12):
particularly talking about beinga Black woman, slash femme.
It is liberating in the senseof you're saying like I am a
human being and that, regardlessof whatever misinformation that
you got about what you think aBlack woman or femme should be
like, it's like.
This is one of the manyexamples of being a black woman
(34:32):
and femme and I don't have tofit into a checklist, I don't
have to fit into a box.
And if you were out heretripping because you're like I
don't know how to reconcile this, that's your issue.
But it's like.
This is who I am and there's somany people like me and it's
fine, and I am going to be thatway because I can't be anything
(34:55):
else.
Because the process of trying tobe someone else is painful and
and and eventually it can causesignificant emotional and
psychological and evenphysiological harm when you're
trying to adopt a personaconstantly.
And so it's freeing and it'sliberating to actually return to
(35:19):
who you are.
Go with some of the shame I hadas a kid of some of the like
why can't I be like other people?
The loneliness, the sense ofbeing set apart and being able
to go, oh, you know, like eventhough I think inevitably, if
there are negative things thatare part of your life story, you
can't put a smiley face on it.
(35:39):
But I think being able to lookback and go like, oh, these
things that previously had anegative association I'm able to
reclaim and go like actually,this was always a nice thing
about myself.
And I can say now, as an adult,that I really like this about
myself and that this has alwaysbeen a positive trait for me.
(35:59):
It's good, it's empowering.
April Snow (36:01):
So empowering to say you know I'm human, this is who
I am, there's nothing wrongwith it.
And you said you know it's notdisgusting.
Which is like, oh yeah, let'sreally take a look.
Why do I think this is aproblem?
It's okay to be empathetic, tobe emotional, to be sensitive,
to be strong and all of that.
That's beautiful.
There's actually nothing wrongwith it, innately.
(36:22):
So why are we demonizing it somuch?
There's actually nothing wrongwith it innately so why are we
demonizing it so much?
Dr. Lana Holmes (36:29):
Right and it relates to it reminds me of a
lot of the interventions, likecognitive behavioral therapy,
because cognitive behavioraltherapy focuses so much on like
where are the facts?
Instead of just taking thethoughts or the emotional
responses that you use to guideyourself through life at face
value, it's like where did itcome from?
Did it come from a valid source?
(36:49):
And is it factual?
Is it matching the reality andthe accurate information that
you have available?
But, then also is it helpingyou?
April Snow (37:00):
You know?
Yeah, exactly yeah, check itout.
Is it factual, is it real?
And is it factual, is it realand is it helpful?
I think those are two greatquestions to ask when you're
having these thoughts aboutyourself, and just to bring it
back to community.
When we're around others whoare like us, who support us for
me at least, a lot of that shamehas floated away, like, oh,
(37:22):
here's someone else like me, I'mokay.
Yeah, those messages are notreal.
I'm accepted here, I'mappreciated, I can be myself
here, so important.
Well, lana, anything elsebefore we start to wrap up,
anything we didn't get to thatyou thought was important to
share today?
Dr. Lana Holmes (37:41):
No, I think, like we covered all of that.
I think the one thing or theone phrase that comes into my
mind, I feel compelled to share,is love yourself.
And I know we hear a lot ofthese things like there's so
many means, or, you know, youand me are old enough to
remember bumper stickers A lotof those you know and
(38:01):
sloganeering, or even those likehang in there, baby, and other
inspirational posters that werehung all over our schools.
I know that sometimes thosephrases have been used ad
nauseum, where people are likedoes it even mean anything
anymore?
But really love yourself, andthe importance of that is like.
The world is hard enough.
Life, especially right now.
(38:21):
It's hard enough that hatingyourself is corrosive, and so it
is important to find a way tolove yourself.
It is important to find a wayto make peace with yourself.
April Snow (38:33):
Yeah, I personally see that as an act of defiance
in our culture Like I'm going tofind joy, I'm going to self
love all of it.
How can we counteract whatwe're seeing and create more joy
and safety and community?
Yeah, that's been my anchor inall this.
Dr. Lana Holmes (38:51):
Yeah, oh no.
Definitely, I've definitelybeen leaning on the works of
people like Trisha Hersey withthe.
NAP ministry, like RestlessResistance that's been like so
transformative for me, as wellas the book I'm currently in the
middle of by Dr Sandra DaltonSmith called Sacred Rest, and
then also just the work of AudreLorde that focused on like
(39:14):
taking care of oneself as an actof political resistance and so
again drawing back to culture ofhow all of these Black women
have been just continuing tolead the cause, you know, not
just for other black women andfemmes but also for hopefully
all people to just be likereally embrace the sanctity of
(39:35):
rest, really embrace thesanctity of again making peace
with who you are, you know, andnot just being an intellectual
thing, but also being somethingthat you can fill in your body
and in your soul you have somuch gratitude to give to black
women, I mean, have given us somuch and I'll definitely be sure
(39:57):
to share those resources in theshow notes for folks, and
because rest is resistance andwe need more of that.
April Snow (40:03):
Especially women of color deserve it the most, or
need it the most.
Also deserve it, yeah, yeah.
Any other thoughts?
Dr. Lana Holmes (40:11):
oh yeah, and I think like to that point,
because one of the things I lookat is looking at it like even
though these are resources thatwere definitely designed by
black women for black women, um,and it's important to give
credit you know, we're creditedto do for that.
My hope is that also othercommunities will be able to take
inspiration from this and thatwe all can be able to join
(40:33):
forces and work together aroundit of your lives.
It's important for all of us towork together to dismantle
systems of repression.
I know we're at the end, but,like to me at least, one of the
(40:53):
things I look at is like systemsof repression also hurt
privileged people in differentsenses as well, because when we
look at diversity and equity andinclusion research, it's shown
that everybody, including peoplefrom dominant or privileged
groups, benefit when there aremore people on staff in schools
and in medical spaces that arediverse, and so I know sometimes
(41:14):
when we talk about this, I cansee how people can be
intimidated and go like oh, Ifeel like this isn't for me
because I'm not a Black woman orfemme, or I feel like this
isn't something I should betaking part in, and it's like
we're all interconnected, right.
April Snow (41:30):
We're all impacted by each other.
I think our yeah, our biggestproblem is that we're
segregating and dividing so much.
We've lost that sense ofhumanity and to see people and
like we all need each other.
Dr. Lana Holmes (41:43):
Right, let's just come together here right,
we all need each other, andyou's just come together here.
Right, we all need each otherand you know it might.
the answers might not be simple,and it might not be something
where it's like oh, I justlearned this concept and that's
it.
But I think it's importantagain for people to rediscover
what it's like to havemeaningful relationships with
(42:03):
people that embrace all of whowe are, and not just the
negative, harmful bits, but alsothe fun bits.
Like you and me didn't even getinto our favorite bands today,
so that's true.
April Snow (42:15):
Follow up that's true.
There's so much more to say.
Oh, alana, thank you so muchfor this beautiful conversation.
It's such an important one tohave right now always, but
especially right now and inaddition to those helpful
resources you shared, I'll besure to include ways for folks
to get in contact with you yourwebsite, your email.
(42:35):
You also have some continuingeducation resources for
therapists and mental healthproviders.
Yeah, before we go, though, I'mwondering if you could share
just a little bit more aboutworking with you for folks who
are interested?
Dr. Lana Holmes (42:47):
yeah, no, it'd be my pleasure.
So I am a licensed clinicalpsychologist.
I'm based in the state ofgeorgia, but I also have a
sci-pak licensure for folks whoreside in all sci-pak member
states, and the practice thatI'm a part of is the center for
inclusive therapy and wellnesspractice, and so I see folks in
individual and couplesteletherapy, so that would be
(43:08):
online for folks who are notaware about the term teletherapy
.
And, yeah, if you go to thelink that's provided in the show
notes, you can feel free tobook a session with me.
A lot of my work focuses on,you know, trauma and
stress-related disordersdepressive disorders, anxiety
disorders.
Also working with variousmarginalized, oppressed and
stigmatized communities it'sshocker, right Like after this
(43:32):
hour so that not only includeswomen and femmes, but also
members of the queer community,bipoc folks, members of the BSM
and kink communities, members ofthe ethical non-monogamy
community, but also I loveworking around people in the
intersections of myself andspirituality, life change and
transformation issues, but alsoaround grief and loss.
(43:53):
So, yeah, there's a lot ofreally rich, rewarding work that
I enjoy doing with people there.
And then with the TouchstoneInstitute, which is a really
great continuing educationorganization Institute, which is
a really great continuingeducation organization, I have a
kink and clinical practice 101continuing education course
that's available online andself-paced.
It was designed specificallyfor licensed mental health
(44:15):
professionals, but also traineesin the mental health field, who
perhaps have heard about BDSMand kink, but they're still
really green to it and want toknow more about effectively
working with these populations,so it was designed to be a nice
introductory overview for people.
April Snow (44:31):
Beautiful.
I love it.
You're just creating so muchspace for folks in your practice
and in the work that you do and, again, just really appreciate
you sharing with us today.
Dr. Lana Holmes (44:41):
Yeah, it's really been such a pleasure and
thank you, april of like when Ifound out about your work, and
not just with this podcast.
But everything that you'redoing in terms of advocating for
sensitivity.
It just delighted my heart.
I was like this is so nice.
I was like I feel so warm andcozy and I'm so happy.
And again, I remember, like theblog post that you said about
(45:11):
going to a concert, I think atRed Rocks, and remembering the
band and the experience andcrying I was like.
April Snow (45:13):
I've had that experience too.
I know we definitely need totalk about our favorite bands at
some point, because music is abig part of my life.
It's so emotional yeah.
Dr. Lana Holmes (45:20):
Me too.
April Snow (45:21):
Thank you so much, you're welcome, thank you.
Thanks so much for joining meand Lana for today's
conversation.
What I hope you're taking awayis that there's nothing wrong
with being more sensitive andthat it's okay to honor your
(45:42):
thresholds, whoever you are.
If you're interested in workingwith Dr Lana, go to
inclusivetherapywellnesscom.
Slash Lana L-A-N-A or head tothe show notes for more
resources.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated
(46:07):
conversations, reviews andratings are also helpful and
appreciated Forbehind-the-scenes content and
more HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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