June 17, 2025 • 39 mins
Do you hide your sensitivity and push yourself beyond your limits? In this episode, I talk with Dr. Huong Diep about breaking old patterns of masking and:
• The process of unmasking and making room for your sensitivity
• Navigating the push-pull of simultaneously craving rest and stimulation as a High Sensation Seeker (HSS)
• The challenges of being a BIPOC HSP growing up in an immigrant family
Huong is a board-certified psychologist and HSP/HSS who specializes in helping sensitive and neurodivergent individuals navigate life transitions, emotional overwhelm, and identity shifts. With a global perspective gained from living, working, and traveling to over 50 countries, she blends cultural awareness with clinical expertise to create a safe, empathetic space for her clients. Huong is passionate about helping people embrace their unique strengths, set boundaries, and reconnect with their authentic selves.
Keep in touch with Huong:
• Website: http://www.drhdiep.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drhdiep
Resources Mentioned:
• High Sensation Seeking self-test: https://hsperson.com/test/high-sensation-seeking-test
• Differential Susceptibility research: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19883141
• Big Five Personality Traits: https://positivepsychology.com/big-five-personality-theory/#what-are-the-big-five-personality-traits
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Huong Diep (00:00):
My parents were really young and just in
survival mode and certainlydidn't understand eye
sensitivity.
For a lot of folks like myselffrom BIPOC communities, I think
it was a liability to besensitive.
I was this dreamy, book-loving,question-asking kid, always
wanting to know more.
(00:20):
They were just worried like howwas I going to survive?
April Snow (00:32):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, April Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP,
(00:54):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk with DrHong Depp about unmasking and
making room for your sensitivity, breaking old patterns of
pushing yourself beyond yourlimits, balancing sensitivity
and needs for more novelty andexcitement, as well as the
experiences of being a BIPOC HSP, growing up in an immigrant
(01:15):
family.
Hong is a board-certifiedpsychologist and
high-sensation-seeking HSP whospecializes in helping sensitive
and neurodivergent individualsnavigate life transitions,
emotional overwhelm and identityshifts.
With a global perspectivegained from living, working and
traveling to over 50 countries,she blends cultural awareness
(01:37):
with clinical expertise tocreate a safe, empathetic space
for her clients.
Hong is passionate abouthelping people embrace their
unique strengths, set boundariesand reconnect with their
authentic selves.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, TikTok or YouTube at
(01:58):
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in so.
(02:35):
Hello Hong, I'm so happy tohave you on the podcast today.
I'm just excited to connectwith you a little bit more.
Yeah, me too, Super exciting.
Yeah, I'm wondering if youcould start by telling us your
HSP discovery story, how or whenyou realized that you're a
highly sensitive person.
Huong Diep (02:54):
Well, since I'm a regular podcast listener, I knew
you asked this question, so Idefinitely wanted to have an
answer ready.
So I think, looking back, Ithink I always knew from a young
age that I was different.
But out of curiosity, I'm like,okay, now, when did I actually
really know?
And so I searched through mytext email history and it was
actually around 2018 when Ifirst started diving into this.
Yeah, so I was reading a lot atthat time about INFJs, empaths,
(03:20):
enneagram work, and that's how Istumbled into the world of HSPs
.
And then I just starteddevouring everything I could
from blogs, podcasts and, ofcourse, elaine Aron's work.
And then, once I had that termHSP, it just felt like so many
moments from my life camerushing back like a mashup of
movie scenes playing in my mindof all those times I was called
(03:43):
too sensitive or too much or notenough, and you know, naming it
brought a mixed bag of reliefand grief of really being able
to make sense of theirexperiences and revisiting them
through a new lens of like, oh,okay, so like, that's why Right,
but no, definitely learningthat I'm an HSP has been one of
(04:03):
the biggest tools in my road ofself-discovery.
April Snow (04:07):
I love that.
You said you know I feltdifferent, which is a theme I
hadn't considered before.
But hearing other people'sdiscovery stories, I'm like, oh,
that is a thread that I seethroughout.
I know something's differentabout me.
If I don't have the languageyet, and it's funny, you're like
I was researching other layers.
You know, being an INFJ, beingan empath those are often the
(04:32):
things that lead us to realizingoh, I'm an HSP, that's what it
is.
Yeah, I love that.
You mentioned this feeling ofrelief and grief, and I don't
think that that's somethingwe've talked about on the
podcast yet.
The sense of grief.
I'm just curious if you couldshare a little bit about that
feeling.
What were you grieving when yourealized that you're an HSP?
Because I had a similarexperience.
(04:54):
I'm curious to hear your side.
Huong Diep (04:55):
Yeah, I think that grief was just almost like a
sadness for my younger self,right, I think, you know, one of
the things I do a lot withclients is parts work, and we
talked about the exiled and thewounded part, and one of the key
activity is, you know, takingout a picture of your younger
(05:16):
self and looking at that version.
And so, yeah, when I look atthis younger version of Phuong,
who was told all things, andyeah, I think it is just so much
how adaptable like she was andhow quickly she figured out how
to survive, but I just want togive her a big hug and just be
like, wow, like that was reallyhard for you, and especially
(05:39):
growing up in a family where youknow come from an immigrant
family and we spoke a differentlanguage and had different
values and customs andtraditions.
So it's almost like navigating,like being HSP on top of the
cultural and intergenerationaldifferences as well.
And, as we know, grief is somultilayered that it's not.
(05:59):
It wasn't just sadness Then, itwas also anger.
I was pissed at all the timesthat I was.
I believed that I was too muchor not enough, right?
So so, yeah, it's beendefinitely this like up and down
where it's not all roses, I'mdiscovering and just being like,
(06:20):
oh, that's great, but it took alot too, and I think even with
my clients we talk a lot about.
Hey, the journey ofself-discovery is filled with
oftentimes the grief for maybethe childhood or the life, or
there's certain roads not takenRight.
April Snow (06:36):
It's so true that there's so many layers and I'm
constantly reminding my clientsyou can feel more than one thing
at a time.
It doesn't have to be one noteand there can.
Yeah, I appreciate that You'relike there's anger and there's
sadness and there's all theseemotions as you put those puzzle
pieces together and think backon not just your present self
but your younger self and whatshe was going through at the
(06:59):
time.
I think we really need to makespace for all of that.
Yeah, and I know you are alsosomeone who identifies not just
as highly sensitive but also ahigh sensation seeker, and so
I'm wondering how do younavigate those two parts?
Huong Diep (07:13):
Yes, lucky me, yeah.
So you know, at first I waslike okay, cool, hsp right.
I was diving into learning aboutthat.
But there always was somethingwhere it didn't like 100% fit
with HST, because I'm like, okay, there's also this other part,
right, that craves newexperiences and a certain level
(07:33):
of intensity and novelty.
And so then when I came acrossHigh Sensation Seeker HSS, like
that also clicked too.
And so then I was like, oh,okay, great, Now I'm also a
guest, right, and I just lovethe way Elaine Aron has depicted
it in terms of, you know, it'salways like one foot on the gas
(07:56):
and one foot on the brake, right.
And so then I'm like, oh, okay,this is why it feels like
there's these two conflicting,like dueling personalities
almost like inside of me, Right.
And that I started to noticepattern of like for myself and
my clients, of those whoidentify as HSP, HSS, through
the big five personality traitswithin psychology.
(08:17):
So you know the ocean acronym.
So I tend to notice that likefor me personally, I scored
super high on openness to newexperiences, like 99th
percentile, right.
But then I also scored prettyhigh on I don't like the word,
but it's still neuroticism ofthe N, right, which I'm like
they really should change that.
And so I know that not all HSPsscore high on N.
(08:40):
But definitely I've noticed apattern in myself and clients
who like score high on O andthen also score high on N right,
Because like we're the folkswho like want to bungee jump or
maybe do something new right,but then we also worry about
everything that could go wrongright, and then sometimes
talking ourselves like out of it, like entirely right.
So I think adding that HSS sidereally then helped me to
(09:01):
understand.
Oh okay, so when I was youngerI definitely leaned more into
that HSS side because that waslike more acceptable, right, it
was the side that was likeadventurous and outgoing and
that studied abroad and joinedthe Peace Corps and climbed
mountains and all sorts ofadrenaline sports right.
And I definitely put myself inthese like unfamiliar or
(09:23):
sometimes risky situationsbecause I loved the stimulation
and the newness.
And also age helped as well,Right, Sure, but I don't think I
realized that I was masking alot because I would just push
through crash, burnout and thenlike need, solitude, you know,
to recover.
April Snow (09:42):
And definitely this was before I understood the
dialectic right, the like bothand Right, right, that's a good
point, that when you're in HSSit is more of an acceptable part
.
Right, you're more adventurous,you're more spontaneous, maybe
more social, you know, just moreadaptable perhaps in that part.
But then, right, there's alimit and at some point you
(10:04):
crash yeah.
Huong Diep (10:06):
Yes, yes.
April Snow (10:07):
What does that look?
Huong Diep (10:08):
like yeah, yeah, I think I I mean, since I didn't
know it myself, I think I kindof confused maybe former
partners because then, right,we're always sort of putting our
best foot forward it's notreally our.
I was like Chris Rock like jokeabout like the first three
months of dating where you'relike, oh, that's your ambassador
version of dating, that's notreally you Right.
(10:29):
So I think my ambassadorversion really like leaned into
the HSS so I would attract, youknow, these partners and friends
who really enjoyed my HSS side.
April Snow (10:41):
Right, which you know.
Huong Diep (10:41):
I did too, HSS side right, which you know I did too,
but after a while, right, youcan only mask for so long.
And then I think that part ofwhen you asked about the crash,
right, Sometimes it was actuallylike literally like a crash and
or, like you know, like hurtingmyself right In some kind of
extreme sport or just reaching awall where I'm like I can't do
(11:02):
this anymore, in terms ofwhatever the intensity was of
going out, socializing, gettingon planes multiple times a month
or whatnot.
It was, I think, a really rudeawakening.
And then having to try toexplain that to the people that
were in my circles at the timebecause, yeah, I think it was
really confusing for them andfor myself before I really
(11:26):
understood.
Oh okay, like how to find thatmiddle ground and almost that
like regulation for both thedopamine seeking side, but also
like the nervous systemregulating side.
April Snow (11:41):
I mean, they seem like such opposites of each
other.
Yes, how do you present dayfind a balance?
Are you making sure that youhave space carved out for each?
You know adventure and downtime.
Huong Diep (12:01):
Or is it a conscious process, or is it more in the
background at this?
point I would love to say it wasin the background, but no, it's
still a daily struggle.
But I would say, yeah, we allhave our things right and I
think I've just come tounderstand yeah, this is my
thing of learning that yes,there are so many things I want
to do and I'm interested in, butI think, a little bit of
reality testing, especiallyagain, I know I'm still
(12:24):
relatively young, but you knowI've aged and so just, I think,
owning up to maybe what some ofmy limits are now and, I think,
really doing a better job ofchecking in in the moment too.
So I think that's where, like,my somatic work and meditation
has come in handy, becausebefore, maybe I would just push
(12:45):
through and do certain things,even if I like felt discomfort,
because I just learned to pushthrough.
Right Discomfort, right, like,right, I'm like, oh, I don't
really feel like doing something.
That's because right.
And again, this is wheresocietal messages that's because
I'm lazy or that's because I'ma scaredy pan, so that's right.
(13:06):
So instead of being like, oh no,my body just doesn't want to do
it, and so now I think I'm muchbetter about honoring, like
where I am and even if it's notwhat I planned or right, but if
I wake up that day and I'm like,oh wow, my body's really
hurting or this is what my bodyneeds, and really having, I
think, the confidence and therespect of myself to myself to
(13:26):
be like, okay, well, this iswhere I am today, and then to
communicate that, you know, toothers as well, but it is.
It's definitely something thatwill.
Practice has got easier, butit's still something that I'm
still on the journey as well.
April Snow (13:44):
Yes, it makes sense that you, as you build
self-awareness and somaticresources, that you catch
yourself earlier, before thecrash yeah, you kind of see the
signs.
That makes sense.
Huong Diep (13:58):
Yeah, maybe part of his wisdom as well.
Right when you're now like okay, if I go out on a Friday night
and I do this and I do that, I'mprobably not gonna have this
energy.
If I go out on a Friday nightand I do this and I do that, I'm
probably not going to have thisenergy.
Or if I schedule this manyclients in a row.
That's probably not going to beright.
So I think, yeah, a little bitmore.
Maybe a little bit of wisdomkind of come in as well Once you
have a certain number of datapoints and experiences.
(14:20):
Right.
April Snow (14:21):
Right, you see the data and the trends.
Huong Diep (14:23):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (14:32):
I'm like, okay, am I N of one?
I know that this tends tohappen.
How has working abroad shaped?
Huong Diep (14:35):
your experiences as a sensitive person or a high
sensation seeker.
I think in so many ways I'vedone accidental exposure therapy
on myself as an HSP, throwingmyself into new, loud and
sometimes uncomfortableenvironments through my travels
just to prove that like I couldhandle it and I can to a certain
degree, but it's just notsustainable in the long term.
But definitely being HSP hasfelt like a superpower abroad.
(14:58):
I can read a room prettyquickly, sense cultural nuances,
even when I don't speak thelanguage you know.
I remember when I was a PeaceCorps volunteer in Peru I was
living with a host family andyeah, I mean, even though it was
a new family and new culture,like new dynamics, I was pretty
able to quickly integrate andbecome part of the community
(15:19):
within a short amount of timebecause I could just kind of
pick up on what was sort ofexpected of me and the unspoken
rhythms of life.
And yeah, the beautiful part isI formed deep connections with
folks from all over the worldand different backgrounds and
walks of life.
April Snow (15:34):
Oh, I love that.
That is a superpower, beingable to not only integrate but
also respect cultures thatyou're in, and just it makes it
a much easier transition thanyou would expect as a sensitive
person, since we tend to takemore time.
But, yeah, we do pick upcontext clues, even when there's
maybe a language barrier, andI've had that experience myself
traveling, where I could justkind of settle in pretty easily.
(15:56):
You never put that together,though.
Huong Diep (16:00):
No, definitely, it's like the DUS acronym, right,
like observation, like just HSPsand our work as therapists,
right, right, I'm a very goodobserver and can quickly observe
body language.
But I don't know if you feelthis way, but I think learning
that like this great strengthcan also be like a great
vulnerability, right, so thatability to like, tune in, to
(16:21):
adapt, it just means that I'vealso had a code switch.
Oh, yes, right, just constantlychanging and almost being very
chameleon-like between thedifferent languages as well,
right, so, growing up speakingVietnamese and English and then
I've also, you know, becomefluent in Spanish.
Right that, like, sometimes Ihave lost touch with my own
(16:41):
voice, and especially incultures where maybe being seen
as like more outgoing or socialis like the right way.
Right, like I remember in Peru,you didn't want to be known as
seria.
Seria, which is kind oftranslates to serious, right,
you want it to be like yeah,alegre, right, like happy and
joyful and light.
Right, so I've just felt thattension.
(17:02):
So I think one of the ways isjust having to create with,
again, lots of trial and errorsafe spaces for myself when,
like living and working abroad,so to have touch points that
really grab me, and this iswhere, like body work,
meditation, talking to likecertain friends from back home
and just my own therapy journey,has been essential to me, no
(17:23):
matter where I am.
April Snow (17:25):
It's such a good point that something that is a
superpower, it also has itslimits, because you can only
assimilate or mask or put yourown self aside for so long
before it starts to be reallytaxing definitely and definitely
it as the older I get as well.
Huong Diep (17:44):
I'm just like not that young backpacker who can
sleep in random hostels or trainstations, right, I don't know
how she did it.
I need quiet, I need my ownplace to recharge, and so, while
I still love exploringfar-flung places, I just had to
get real intentional about like.
I set up my space and then, Ithink, just honor it instead of,
like you know, judging it rightOf, just like, oh, why don't I
(18:06):
want to share a big house witheverybody?
You know.
Just sort of be like you know,guys, I love you, but I'm going
to need my own separate space.
April Snow (18:13):
Yes, always need to have that space to retreat.
Yeah, yes, and you know, kindof diving a little bit deeper
into some of the challenges, I'mcurious what challenges
patterns you see with the HSPclients you work with who are
from immigrant, multicultural orBIPOC communities.
What have you seen?
Huong Diep (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
First of all I just want to saythanks, april, for amplifying.
You know BIPOC voices.
April Snow (18:37):
And.
Huong Diep (18:38):
I was really moved listening to Dr Lana Holmes
share her experiences asa, blackHSP and actually made me reach
out to her.
So thanks for connecting us.
I love that, yeah, and I thinkthat when we look through like
an intersectional lens, rightidentifying as an other just
adds another complicated butbeautiful layer to the
experience of being an HSP.
(18:58):
Right, and I think, likespeaking from my own personal
experience, my parents are likeboat people who fled Vietnam
after the war, and so my mom wasover seven months pregnant with
me when she boarded that boat,not knowing where it would take
her or if she would survive.
I was born in a refugee camp inHong Kong before we gained
asylum to the US, and my momthen worked in garment factories
(19:20):
and sweatshops when my dadstudied English and picked up
odd jobs.
They survived and eventuallysupported other family members
along the way.
So, you know, I look back, Isee that I come from really
no-nonsense people.
Emotions weren't something wetalked about, and my parents are
definitely not HSPs Lovelypeople, but not HSPs.
The expectation was listen toyour elders, study hard, repay
(19:43):
the sacrifices your ancestorsmade.
Right was listen to your elders, study hard, repay the
sacrifices your ancestors maderight.
And so I think, looking back, Ican hold a duality now, right
that my parents were reallyyoung and in an arranged
marriage, carrying trauma,scarcity, paranoia from war and
displacement and they were justin survival mode and they didn't
have access to, like parentingbooks and certainly didn't
understand like high sensitivity, right.
(20:05):
And so I think, yeah, for a lotof folks like myself and folks
you know from BIPOC communities,I think it was a liability to
be sensitive, right, and I thinkthat they were just so
concerned about you know howlike I was really this dreamy,
book-loving, question-asking kidprobably my undiagnosed ADHD at
(20:28):
that time but you know, it wasjust always like wanting to know
more and like was wantinginformation.
I think if Google existed atthe time, I probably would have
been on Google or you know,asking a lot of questions.
But then it was encyclopedias,right.
But yeah, I think it justseemed like a liability to them
that I just wanted to read bymyself in the corner and so they
(20:49):
were just worried like how wasI going to survive?
So I think that's, you know, Ithink one of the threads I see
when working with other BIPOC orfolks who come from
marginalized communities orimmigrant backgrounds is that
there is this additional layerwhere being sensitive was really
seen as this, you know, reallybad and potentially dangerous
(21:13):
thing.
April Snow (21:15):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, I've always seen theability to embrace your
sensitivity as a privilege,because if you are someone who
is in survival mode, you comefrom an immigrant family where
it is about just getting throughthe day to day right, Pulling
yourself up.
Yeah, I imagine your parents arelooking at you in the corner
with your books and they're likewell, but then they start to
(21:38):
worry right to be resilientenough to take this to the next
level after all the hard workand sacrifice that they made to
create this different life foryou.
I can understand that right.
I mean, I'm not a BIPOC person,but there have been times in
life where I was struggling more, where sensitivity had to get
(22:00):
pushed to the side as much asyou can, because it's always in
you, but you do have to maskmore, so that, yeah, that could
be really concerning for parentsand I wonder, did that also?
Were you aware of that as wellat the time?
Like, Ooh, I should be lesssensitive or different.
Huong Diep (22:20):
Yes, yes, cause I think, being a sensitive kid,
you are aware, right, yeah,always.
What pleases and then also arecovering people pleaser, right
and over-parentified.
I think that intersectiondefinitely led me to be like, oh
, this is what my parents needof me, right?
Because I think, yeah, theytried to like train me right and
(22:41):
again with all the bestintentions that if I expressed
any worries, they would tell me,hey, don't be a baby.
There's like bigger things,like paying the bills and rents
and things to worry about.
Right, if like loud noises andare like cramped apartment
complex overwhelmed me, theywould really try to focus on
gratitude, which, again, isimportant, but you should be
grateful that we have a home anda roof over your head, right?
(23:04):
Or, I was always very silly I'msensitive to like tags on my
like stuff, right, I have to cutthem all out, and just
different like textures ofclothing.
But then I was deemed like toodemanding or picky.
So I think, yeah, I quicklylearned, oh, like, don't
complain.
Like, the more you complain,you're going to get negative
attention and people don't likethat, right.
(23:25):
And that, again, wanting tohelp my parents, seeing how hard
my parents were working, liketwo jobs all the time, you know.
And, yeah, I wanted to be aquote, unquote, good kid.
So then I figured out.
Oh, okay, to be a good kidmeans like I don't complain
about these things, even if theyreally bother me.
So, to really try to likeyounger Hong had to really find
(23:47):
different ways to self-soothe inorder to complete her tasks to
help her family, right?
So I understand I mean again asan adult, right that, yeah,
it's not even sometimesconvenient for me, right For my
sensitivities, where, you know,if I'm on a plane and there's
(24:07):
certain noises I wish I couldtune it out, right.
So I understand that survivalwas the priority.
But now that I have again, likeyou said, the privilege to have
more resources that I can nowtune into what current needs.
April Snow (24:24):
Yeah right, you can listen to those needs more
actively instead of needing topush them aside.
Yeah, it's hard, though,because that sensory sensitivity
, that tag, can't stop that.
But we also have to make surethat we're acclimating to our
environment or what parents needat the time, because your
parents were, I imagine theyjust didn't have parents need at
(24:45):
the time.
Because your parents were, Iimagine they just didn't have
capacity to think about the tagson your clothing.
Huong Diep (24:51):
Yeah, no, and I think, yeah, I think they were
just very confused and I thinkthat again, we also have to look
at the intersection of whattheir values and what was
important to them at the time.
Right, and maybe growing upduring a certain time period of
Vietnam and in more ruralsettings, that there were
(25:13):
certain expectations of whatkids do, and so I think that,
through their lens, I wasalready quite privileged that my
main job was to go to schooland maybe other things that
maybe them and their siblingshad to do, right, so again I can
see all the different nuancesand have compassion now, from a
(25:35):
distance, you know, for for allthe players, right, but it was
also, oh, my gosh, would I haveloved if someone could have
named that for me as a child.
Just be like, oh hey, like,that's okay that you don't like
this tag, like, let's just, youknow we'll take it off.
For, oh, you don't like thistexture, okay, like, what
texture do you like?
(25:56):
Like, let's go look at right,cause I do know that the
research does show that kids whoare HSPs if they get actually
the nurturance that they need,that is actually like a double
bonus, because they actuallythen right, they really grow up
to be very resilient folks whocan honor and nurture their
(26:17):
needs.
April Snow (26:17):
So, yes, yeah, because of our differential
susceptibility, we take thatgood and we just soak it up like
a sponge and we actually aremore resilient, which is not
what a lot of people wouldexpect.
Huong Diep (26:30):
No, definitely.
So I remember when I saw thatresearch, it really, you know,
was so inspiring and, I think,something that I remind clients
because a lot of my clientsmaybe, who are BIPOC or second
gen or multicultural or whatnot,oftentimes one of the ways they
get into therapy is not forthem, but it's because they
(26:51):
either have kids or they'rethinking about having kids right
or caretaking for youngchildren, and so I think they're
realizing, oh, I want to breakthese intergenerational patterns
or these different messagingsright, and so I think they are
very, you know, pertinent when Ido share with them like, hey,
like, the more you are able tovalidate and nurture and see and
(27:15):
just help your kids understandabout their different
sensitivities, it bodes superwell, you know, for them and
also could be a very reparativehealing process to them as well.
April Snow (27:28):
Absolutely.
I'm wondering if we could getinto how you're supporting your
clients to overcome some ofthese challenges we've talked
about.
Huong Diep (27:36):
Yeah, I think what I really love doing is, yeah,
helping clients be the part ofthe generation that breaks, like
, some of the old patterning andreally starts to question you
know different messaging andwhatnot and that you know.
I think, again, we always startoff very slowly, I think, for a
lot of folks maybe who havealready had a lot of fears right
(27:59):
about going into therapy.
I know that therapy has changeda lot of fears right about
going into therapy.
I know that therapy has changeda lot since when I first went
20 years ago, it was almost likethis you can't tell anybody
thing, right.
These days.
Right, I think it's a littlebit more mainstream, but still
right.
I think to admit that you, yeah,need some extra support, I
think is always like an amazingfirst step right, and I come
(28:22):
from it from a very like,non-judgmental and very
affirming perspective.
First, by just honoring all theways like their strategies
right, like things likeperfectionism,
over-parentification, avoidanceeven, or being a hyper-achiever,
right, like has helped themsurvive, and I just always
remind clients that how creativethey were younger than we're to
(28:45):
adapt, to make it this far,especially growing up with
families and cultures that, like, didn't make room for
sensitivity, right.
And so I think you know themore that they can understand
that those behaviors weren'trandom, that those coping
strategies came from somewhere,that they had like an adaptive
purpose at one point and itreally helped the younger
(29:08):
versions of them function andfeel safe.
But now that really questioningnow like, okay, do those coping
mechanisms, do they still serveyou?
Right?
What might be holding you backnow?
What no longer feels good?
Right, because I think that'sthe confusion I see from a lot
of clients.
They're like well,perfectionism has always helped
me get to this point in my life,but now why is it no longer
(29:30):
working?
Or having diminishing returnsor whatnot, right?
Or actually, for so many of myperfectionists they wouldn't
even say perfectionism becausethey're like well, I'm not
perfect enough to beperfectionist, enough to be
perfectionist, right?
April Snow (29:47):
so yeah, I think, coming from it again in a very
like gentle non-judgment, verycurious way and such a good
reminder that there's resilience, there's creativity.
You figured out how to survivewhile being sensitive in an
environment that couldn'tsupport your sensitivity right
the resources weren't there, theawareness wasn't there, but you
got through and I think that'ssuch an important piece to
(30:09):
highlight that there's strengthand resilience there and now
hopefully there's some abilityto soften, like a lot of my
BIPOC clients talk about that.
A lot is just want to softenand let the mass fall down, not
be strong all the time, let moreparts of themselves come
through, but there is anunderlying strength and
creativity there that isincredible.
Huong Diep (30:33):
Yeah, no, and that's amazing, the work that you're
doing and the clients are ableto feel that way.
And I don't know if you'reseeing this.
But then there's also a lot offear of like well, now that I'm
letting the mask down, what if Idon't like what I see?
Or what if, like other people,don't like what they see right?
Or oh, like I could have donethis.
(30:53):
Or like, oh, this is who right?
So I think that's where reallymeeting folks where they're at
and taking it very slowly rightas we're unpacking a lot of
things, whether it's throughlike parts work or EMDR, somatic
healing, and definitely withculturally informed care, just
to like know that there's goingto be a mix of like emotions,
(31:14):
and that there's, I think forsome clients, yeah, it's a mixed
bag of the joy, like we talkedabout, and reclaiming those
sensitive parts, to be like wait.
So you're saying it's okay thatlike I'm X, y, z, I'm like,
yeah, it's more than okay,that's who you are right.
But then there's also like alot of anger and sadness as they
realize how much their youngerselves are like belittled or
dismissed, things that theywould never tell like their
(31:37):
child or like another youngerperson, of course, yeah, there's
.
April Snow (31:44):
I mean, I just think about how your nervous system
is wired for protection andkeeping that mask on, so it can
even feel dangerous to start totake it off, and especially in
this climate, that danger feelsvery palpable.
So, yeah, so there's a lot oflayers there and I think that's
an important reminder that,please, you know it's important
to go at your own pace and notfeel like you have to rush the
process or it has to look anycertain way.
(32:07):
You have to be in control ofthat.
Huong Diep (32:11):
Yeah, definitely, Because sometimes for some of my
clients who you know, likethey're overachievers, right, or
that type of preference,they're like, okay, let's go
full steam ahead, and I alsohave to like slow them down and
be like hey, hey, like right, wewant to build this slowly.
We don't want to just pull therug out from under you, because
then you'll have no rug to standon.
All right, we're needing toalmost like slowly weave like a
(32:33):
new rug Right as you slowlystart transitioning over to
another rug.
And so I use a lot of metaphors,a lot of imagery, a lot of
examples in my work, just likeyeah, because I think sometimes
it can feel really scary anddaunting right to engage in this
work and I think my clientsfeel very grounded with me
(32:56):
because I think they know again,without overly disclosing in a
non-professional way, but Ithink they can tell and they
know that I'm on the journey aswell and I'm like, hey, like no
one's perfect here, there's nosuch thing as perfect.
We're all learning how to be.
You know, we're all souls inthis human body having these
human experiences, right, and so, yeah, sort of almost.
(33:20):
How do you learn more you knowabout yourself?
April Snow (33:25):
Yeah, it's good modeling for them, like we're
all imperfect and figuring itout and you're also walking that
journey, so they can trust youin that process.
Huong Diep (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, I think clients really appreciate my you
know.
I mean, they know I have likeall the degrees and they can
build up on that and see all ofthose things.
But I think what they reallyappreciate is they're always
like, oh, but you don't talklike a doctor or have this.
You know sort of not that I'mnot serious like in my work, but
I think I really try just to belike, yeah, this is like the
(33:54):
human struggle and so, yeah, itfeels really good, right,
because I think back in gradschool sometimes I would get
into trouble for not being likeprofessional enough, but I think
that's what draws people to me.
I think I just speak in areally real way and, you know,
try to sprinkle in humor whenappropriate, right, because,
(34:17):
yeah, this is like sometimesreally heavy stuff that we're
talking about.
April Snow (34:20):
Yeah, sometimes you need that levity just to take a
breath for a moment.
Yeah, sometimes you need thatlevity just to take a breath for
a moment.
Yeah, I can feel that, asyou're talking, just that
balance of that solid foundationof knowledge, but also there is
some lightness and someplayfulness.
That's great.
I love it.
Huong Diep (34:36):
Thank you.
Yeah yeah, I think you know,again, staying within our window
of tolerance, I think that'sreally important.
And then for myself as well,right, Like modeling that, I
think you know.
Again, staying within ourwindow of tolerance, I think
that's really important.
And then for myself as well,right, like modeling that.
And that, you know, I thinkoftentimes, yeah, I think I have
to model like hey, I thinkwe've done enough digging or
sounds like we've dug up somethings.
Right, like let's just reviewwhat we've dug up instead of I
(34:58):
think sometimes there's this,you know like it being an HSP is
nothing to fix, right.
So I think oftentimes peopleare digging to like fix it.
Like the more I understand it,the more I'm going to fix it.
I'm like, oh, it's not reallysomething wrong with you.
We're not like here to fixanything.
I think it's really more aboutthat understanding.
April Snow (35:16):
A hundred percent?
Yes, Well, Hong, I'm wonderingif there this has been an
amazing conversation.
I'm wondering if there's anyfinal messages that you want to
leave with our HSP listeners.
Huong Diep (35:28):
Yeah, I think something I tell myself is just
there's nothing wrong with you.
Like I said, truly the way youthink, the way you feel, the
depth, the intensity you bringto your life, that's your
superpower.
So, like, surround yourselfwith people who encourage that
exploration, people who help youget curious about who you are,
whether that's through supportgroups, therapy books, podcasts,
find spaces where you can hearother HSP stories and, like,
(35:52):
feel less alone and, I think,definitely listen to the wisdom
of your body, Like if somethingjust doesn't feel good, like
just stop.
Even if you haven't tuned intoyour body for years and a lot of
us are very dissociated fromour bodies it's always there,
you can always come back to itand you can really rebuild that
trust with yourself.
April Snow (36:13):
Such a good reminder that it's always there, even if
you've forgotten about it.
Huong Diep (36:18):
Yes, it's still here Doing its thing.
April Snow (36:21):
Exactly Well.
Thank you again so much foreverything you shared today and
helping us deepen thisconversation, bringing more
perspectives into our HSVcommunity.
I mean, that's such animportant piece and I will be
sure for any folks that want toreach out to you.
I'll share your website in theshow notes and I know you do
offer therapy consulting work.
Could you share a little bitmore about working with you?
Huong Diep (36:45):
Yeah, you know, like I said, I'm a licensed
psychologist.
I'm licensed in gosh.
You know five states likeCalifornia, nevada, south Dakota
, new York, dc.
I might be missing one, but youcan find all on my website.
I added all the additionallicensures, especially when it's
during the pandemic and justduring different periods where
(37:06):
I've noticed different groupsneeding additional support, and
so I think that was sort of myoffering was getting additional
licensures so that I could offermore.
And yeah, I'm available forindividual therapy, couples
therapy and consultations, andfolks can find me over my
website and I think, just toknow that, whether you've been
(37:28):
in therapy before or you'rebrand new to it, I think you can
see my style is like verycurious and really, yeah, I
think, just trying to meet you,like where you're at right, how
you got to where you are and howyou can move forward in a way
that feels like grounded andaligned, what makes you you and
that you know.
I think, if anything thisconversation resonated like, I'd
(37:49):
love to hear from you.
So, whether it's reaching out,connecting or just sitting with
these reflections, I just thinkthere's so much power and
sharing our story and findingcommunity.
So thank you again, april, forfor inviting me on and letting
me share.
Thank you, Hong this has been areally beautiful conversation.
April Snow (38:13):
Thanks so much for joining me and Hong for today's
conversation.
What I hope you'll take away isthat all parts of your
sensitive self are acceptableand welcome and it's important
to make space for them.
If you'd like to work with DrHong as a therapy or consulting
client, you can go to herwebsite, wwwdrhdiepcom.
That's wwwdrhdiepcom.
(38:39):
Links are also in the shownotes.
Dot drhdepcom.
Links are also in the shownotes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
(39:00):
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
My parents were really young and just in
survival mode and certainlydidn't understand eye
sensitivity.
For a lot of folks like myselffrom BIPOC communities, I think
it was a liability to besensitive.
I was this dreamy, book-loving,question-asking kid, always
wanting to know more.
(00:20):
They were just worried like howwas I going to survive?
April Snow (00:32):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, April Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP,
(00:54):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk with DrHong Depp about unmasking and
making room for your sensitivity, breaking old patterns of
pushing yourself beyond yourlimits, balancing sensitivity
and needs for more novelty andexcitement, as well as the
experiences of being a BIPOC HSP, growing up in an immigrant
(01:15):
family.
Hong is a board-certifiedpsychologist and
high-sensation-seeking HSP whospecializes in helping sensitive
and neurodivergent individualsnavigate life transitions,
emotional overwhelm and identityshifts.
With a global perspectivegained from living, working and
traveling to over 50 countries,she blends cultural awareness
(01:37):
with clinical expertise tocreate a safe, empathetic space
for her clients.
Hong is passionate abouthelping people embrace their
unique strengths, set boundariesand reconnect with their
authentic selves.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, TikTok or YouTube at
(01:58):
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in so.
(02:35):
Hello Hong, I'm so happy tohave you on the podcast today.
I'm just excited to connectwith you a little bit more.
Yeah, me too, Super exciting.
Yeah, I'm wondering if youcould start by telling us your
HSP discovery story, how or whenyou realized that you're a
highly sensitive person.
Huong Diep (02:54):
Well, since I'm a regular podcast listener, I knew
you asked this question, so Idefinitely wanted to have an
answer ready.
So I think, looking back, Ithink I always knew from a young
age that I was different.
But out of curiosity, I'm like,okay, now, when did I actually
really know?
And so I searched through mytext email history and it was
actually around 2018 when Ifirst started diving into this.
Yeah, so I was reading a lot atthat time about INFJs, empaths,
(03:20):
enneagram work, and that's how Istumbled into the world of HSPs
.
And then I just starteddevouring everything I could
from blogs, podcasts and, ofcourse, elaine Aron's work.
And then, once I had that termHSP, it just felt like so many
moments from my life camerushing back like a mashup of
movie scenes playing in my mindof all those times I was called
(03:43):
too sensitive or too much or notenough, and you know, naming it
brought a mixed bag of reliefand grief of really being able
to make sense of theirexperiences and revisiting them
through a new lens of like, oh,okay, so like, that's why Right,
but no, definitely learningthat I'm an HSP has been one of
(04:03):
the biggest tools in my road ofself-discovery.
April Snow (04:07):
I love that.
You said you know I feltdifferent, which is a theme I
hadn't considered before.
But hearing other people'sdiscovery stories, I'm like, oh,
that is a thread that I seethroughout.
I know something's differentabout me.
If I don't have the languageyet, and it's funny, you're like
I was researching other layers.
You know, being an INFJ, beingan empath those are often the
(04:32):
things that lead us to realizingoh, I'm an HSP, that's what it
is.
Yeah, I love that.
You mentioned this feeling ofrelief and grief, and I don't
think that that's somethingwe've talked about on the
podcast yet.
The sense of grief.
I'm just curious if you couldshare a little bit about that
feeling.
What were you grieving when yourealized that you're an HSP?
Because I had a similarexperience.
(04:54):
I'm curious to hear your side.
Huong Diep (04:55):
Yeah, I think that grief was just almost like a
sadness for my younger self,right, I think, you know, one of
the things I do a lot withclients is parts work, and we
talked about the exiled and thewounded part, and one of the key
activity is, you know, takingout a picture of your younger
(05:16):
self and looking at that version.
And so, yeah, when I look atthis younger version of Phuong,
who was told all things, andyeah, I think it is just so much
how adaptable like she was andhow quickly she figured out how
to survive, but I just want togive her a big hug and just be
like, wow, like that was reallyhard for you, and especially
(05:39):
growing up in a family where youknow come from an immigrant
family and we spoke a differentlanguage and had different
values and customs andtraditions.
So it's almost like navigating,like being HSP on top of the
cultural and intergenerationaldifferences as well.
And, as we know, grief is somultilayered that it's not.
(05:59):
It wasn't just sadness Then, itwas also anger.
I was pissed at all the timesthat I was.
I believed that I was too muchor not enough, right?
So so, yeah, it's beendefinitely this like up and down
where it's not all roses, I'mdiscovering and just being like,
(06:20):
oh, that's great, but it took alot too, and I think even with
my clients we talk a lot about.
Hey, the journey ofself-discovery is filled with
oftentimes the grief for maybethe childhood or the life, or
there's certain roads not takenRight.
April Snow (06:36):
It's so true that there's so many layers and I'm
constantly reminding my clientsyou can feel more than one thing
at a time.
It doesn't have to be one noteand there can.
Yeah, I appreciate that You'relike there's anger and there's
sadness and there's all theseemotions as you put those puzzle
pieces together and think backon not just your present self
but your younger self and whatshe was going through at the
(06:59):
time.
I think we really need to makespace for all of that.
Yeah, and I know you are alsosomeone who identifies not just
as highly sensitive but also ahigh sensation seeker, and so
I'm wondering how do younavigate those two parts?
Huong Diep (07:13):
Yes, lucky me, yeah.
So you know, at first I waslike okay, cool, hsp right.
I was diving into learning aboutthat.
But there always was somethingwhere it didn't like 100% fit
with HST, because I'm like, okay, there's also this other part,
right, that craves newexperiences and a certain level
(07:33):
of intensity and novelty.
And so then when I came acrossHigh Sensation Seeker HSS, like
that also clicked too.
And so then I was like, oh,okay, great, Now I'm also a
guest, right, and I just lovethe way Elaine Aron has depicted
it in terms of, you know, it'salways like one foot on the gas
(07:56):
and one foot on the brake, right.
And so then I'm like, oh, okay,this is why it feels like
there's these two conflicting,like dueling personalities
almost like inside of me, Right.
And that I started to noticepattern of like for myself and
my clients, of those whoidentify as HSP, HSS, through
the big five personality traitswithin psychology.
(08:17):
So you know the ocean acronym.
So I tend to notice that likefor me personally, I scored
super high on openness to newexperiences, like 99th
percentile, right.
But then I also scored prettyhigh on I don't like the word,
but it's still neuroticism ofthe N, right, which I'm like
they really should change that.
And so I know that not all HSPsscore high on N.
(08:40):
But definitely I've noticed apattern in myself and clients
who like score high on O andthen also score high on N right,
Because like we're the folkswho like want to bungee jump or
maybe do something new right,but then we also worry about
everything that could go wrongright, and then sometimes
talking ourselves like out of it, like entirely right.
So I think adding that HSS sidereally then helped me to
(09:01):
understand.
Oh okay, so when I was youngerI definitely leaned more into
that HSS side because that waslike more acceptable, right, it
was the side that was likeadventurous and outgoing and
that studied abroad and joinedthe Peace Corps and climbed
mountains and all sorts ofadrenaline sports right.
And I definitely put myself inthese like unfamiliar or
(09:23):
sometimes risky situationsbecause I loved the stimulation
and the newness.
And also age helped as well,Right, Sure, but I don't think I
realized that I was masking alot because I would just push
through crash, burnout and thenlike need, solitude, you know,
to recover.
April Snow (09:42):
And definitely this was before I understood the
dialectic right, the like bothand Right, right, that's a good
point, that when you're in HSSit is more of an acceptable part
.
Right, you're more adventurous,you're more spontaneous, maybe
more social, you know, just moreadaptable perhaps in that part.
But then, right, there's alimit and at some point you
(10:04):
crash yeah.
Huong Diep (10:06):
Yes, yes.
April Snow (10:07):
What does that look?
Huong Diep (10:08):
like yeah, yeah, I think I I mean, since I didn't
know it myself, I think I kindof confused maybe former
partners because then, right,we're always sort of putting our
best foot forward it's notreally our.
I was like Chris Rock like jokeabout like the first three
months of dating where you'relike, oh, that's your ambassador
version of dating, that's notreally you Right.
(10:29):
So I think my ambassadorversion really like leaned into
the HSS so I would attract, youknow, these partners and friends
who really enjoyed my HSS side.
April Snow (10:41):
Right, which you know.
Huong Diep (10:41):
I did too, HSS side right, which you know I did too,
but after a while, right, youcan only mask for so long.
And then I think that part ofwhen you asked about the crash,
right, Sometimes it was actuallylike literally like a crash and
or, like you know, like hurtingmyself right In some kind of
extreme sport or just reaching awall where I'm like I can't do
(11:02):
this anymore, in terms ofwhatever the intensity was of
going out, socializing, gettingon planes multiple times a month
or whatnot.
It was, I think, a really rudeawakening.
And then having to try toexplain that to the people that
were in my circles at the timebecause, yeah, I think it was
really confusing for them andfor myself before I really
(11:26):
understood.
Oh okay, like how to find thatmiddle ground and almost that
like regulation for both thedopamine seeking side, but also
like the nervous systemregulating side.
April Snow (11:41):
I mean, they seem like such opposites of each
other.
Yes, how do you present dayfind a balance?
Are you making sure that youhave space carved out for each?
You know adventure and downtime.
Huong Diep (12:01):
Or is it a conscious process, or is it more in the
background at this?
point I would love to say it wasin the background, but no, it's
still a daily struggle.
But I would say, yeah, we allhave our things right and I
think I've just come tounderstand yeah, this is my
thing of learning that yes,there are so many things I want
to do and I'm interested in, butI think, a little bit of
reality testing, especiallyagain, I know I'm still
(12:24):
relatively young, but you knowI've aged and so just, I think,
owning up to maybe what some ofmy limits are now and, I think,
really doing a better job ofchecking in in the moment too.
So I think that's where, like,my somatic work and meditation
has come in handy, becausebefore, maybe I would just push
(12:45):
through and do certain things,even if I like felt discomfort,
because I just learned to pushthrough.
Right Discomfort, right, like,right, I'm like, oh, I don't
really feel like doing something.
That's because right.
And again, this is wheresocietal messages that's because
I'm lazy or that's because I'ma scaredy pan, so that's right.
(13:06):
So instead of being like, oh no,my body just doesn't want to do
it, and so now I think I'm muchbetter about honoring, like
where I am and even if it's notwhat I planned or right, but if
I wake up that day and I'm like,oh wow, my body's really
hurting or this is what my bodyneeds, and really having, I
think, the confidence and therespect of myself to myself to
(13:26):
be like, okay, well, this iswhere I am today, and then to
communicate that, you know, toothers as well, but it is.
It's definitely something thatwill.
Practice has got easier, butit's still something that I'm
still on the journey as well.
April Snow (13:44):
Yes, it makes sense that you, as you build
self-awareness and somaticresources, that you catch
yourself earlier, before thecrash yeah, you kind of see the
signs.
That makes sense.
Huong Diep (13:58):
Yeah, maybe part of his wisdom as well.
Right when you're now like okay, if I go out on a Friday night
and I do this and I do that, I'mprobably not gonna have this
energy.
If I go out on a Friday nightand I do this and I do that, I'm
probably not going to have thisenergy.
Or if I schedule this manyclients in a row.
That's probably not going to beright.
So I think, yeah, a little bitmore.
Maybe a little bit of wisdomkind of come in as well Once you
have a certain number of datapoints and experiences.
(14:20):
Right.
April Snow (14:21):
Right, you see the data and the trends.
Huong Diep (14:23):
Yeah, yeah.
April Snow (14:32):
I'm like, okay, am I N of one?
I know that this tends tohappen.
How has working abroad shaped?
Huong Diep (14:35):
your experiences as a sensitive person or a high
sensation seeker.
I think in so many ways I'vedone accidental exposure therapy
on myself as an HSP, throwingmyself into new, loud and
sometimes uncomfortableenvironments through my travels
just to prove that like I couldhandle it and I can to a certain
degree, but it's just notsustainable in the long term.
But definitely being HSP hasfelt like a superpower abroad.
(14:58):
I can read a room prettyquickly, sense cultural nuances,
even when I don't speak thelanguage you know.
I remember when I was a PeaceCorps volunteer in Peru I was
living with a host family andyeah, I mean, even though it was
a new family and new culture,like new dynamics, I was pretty
able to quickly integrate andbecome part of the community
(15:19):
within a short amount of timebecause I could just kind of
pick up on what was sort ofexpected of me and the unspoken
rhythms of life.
And yeah, the beautiful part isI formed deep connections with
folks from all over the worldand different backgrounds and
walks of life.
April Snow (15:34):
Oh, I love that.
That is a superpower, beingable to not only integrate but
also respect cultures thatyou're in, and just it makes it
a much easier transition thanyou would expect as a sensitive
person, since we tend to takemore time.
But, yeah, we do pick upcontext clues, even when there's
maybe a language barrier, andI've had that experience myself
traveling, where I could justkind of settle in pretty easily.
(15:56):
You never put that together,though.
Huong Diep (16:00):
No, definitely, it's like the DUS acronym, right,
like observation, like just HSPsand our work as therapists,
right, right, I'm a very goodobserver and can quickly observe
body language.
But I don't know if you feelthis way, but I think learning
that like this great strengthcan also be like a great
vulnerability, right, so thatability to like, tune in, to
(16:21):
adapt, it just means that I'vealso had a code switch.
Oh, yes, right, just constantlychanging and almost being very
chameleon-like between thedifferent languages as well,
right, so, growing up speakingVietnamese and English and then
I've also, you know, becomefluent in Spanish.
Right that, like, sometimes Ihave lost touch with my own
(16:41):
voice, and especially incultures where maybe being seen
as like more outgoing or socialis like the right way.
Right, like I remember in Peru,you didn't want to be known as
seria.
Seria, which is kind oftranslates to serious, right,
you want it to be like yeah,alegre, right, like happy and
joyful and light.
Right, so I've just felt thattension.
(17:02):
So I think one of the ways isjust having to create with,
again, lots of trial and errorsafe spaces for myself when,
like living and working abroad,so to have touch points that
really grab me, and this iswhere, like body work,
meditation, talking to likecertain friends from back home
and just my own therapy journey,has been essential to me, no
(17:23):
matter where I am.
April Snow (17:25):
It's such a good point that something that is a
superpower, it also has itslimits, because you can only
assimilate or mask or put yourown self aside for so long
before it starts to be reallytaxing definitely and definitely
it as the older I get as well.
Huong Diep (17:44):
I'm just like not that young backpacker who can
sleep in random hostels or trainstations, right, I don't know
how she did it.
I need quiet, I need my ownplace to recharge, and so, while
I still love exploringfar-flung places, I just had to
get real intentional about like.
I set up my space and then, Ithink, just honor it instead of,
like you know, judging it rightOf, just like, oh, why don't I
(18:06):
want to share a big house witheverybody?
You know.
Just sort of be like you know,guys, I love you, but I'm going
to need my own separate space.
April Snow (18:13):
Yes, always need to have that space to retreat.
Yeah, yes, and you know, kindof diving a little bit deeper
into some of the challenges, I'mcurious what challenges
patterns you see with the HSPclients you work with who are
from immigrant, multicultural orBIPOC communities.
What have you seen?
Huong Diep (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
First of all I just want to saythanks, april, for amplifying.
You know BIPOC voices.
April Snow (18:37):
And.
Huong Diep (18:38):
I was really moved listening to Dr Lana Holmes
share her experiences asa, blackHSP and actually made me reach
out to her.
So thanks for connecting us.
I love that, yeah, and I thinkthat when we look through like
an intersectional lens, rightidentifying as an other just
adds another complicated butbeautiful layer to the
experience of being an HSP.
(18:58):
Right, and I think, likespeaking from my own personal
experience, my parents are likeboat people who fled Vietnam
after the war, and so my mom wasover seven months pregnant with
me when she boarded that boat,not knowing where it would take
her or if she would survive.
I was born in a refugee camp inHong Kong before we gained
asylum to the US, and my momthen worked in garment factories
(19:20):
and sweatshops when my dadstudied English and picked up
odd jobs.
They survived and eventuallysupported other family members
along the way.
So, you know, I look back, Isee that I come from really
no-nonsense people.
Emotions weren't something wetalked about, and my parents are
definitely not HSPs Lovelypeople, but not HSPs.
The expectation was listen toyour elders, study hard, repay
(19:43):
the sacrifices your ancestorsmade.
Right was listen to your elders, study hard, repay the
sacrifices your ancestors maderight.
And so I think, looking back, Ican hold a duality now, right
that my parents were reallyyoung and in an arranged
marriage, carrying trauma,scarcity, paranoia from war and
displacement and they were justin survival mode and they didn't
have access to, like parentingbooks and certainly didn't
understand like high sensitivity, right.
(20:05):
And so I think, yeah, for a lotof folks like myself and folks
you know from BIPOC communities,I think it was a liability to
be sensitive, right, and I thinkthat they were just so
concerned about you know howlike I was really this dreamy,
book-loving, question-asking kidprobably my undiagnosed ADHD at
(20:28):
that time but you know, it wasjust always like wanting to know
more and like was wantinginformation.
I think if Google existed atthe time, I probably would have
been on Google or you know,asking a lot of questions.
But then it was encyclopedias,right.
But yeah, I think it justseemed like a liability to them
that I just wanted to read bymyself in the corner and so they
(20:49):
were just worried like how wasI going to survive?
So I think that's, you know, Ithink one of the threads I see
when working with other BIPOC orfolks who come from
marginalized communities orimmigrant backgrounds is that
there is this additional layerwhere being sensitive was really
seen as this, you know, reallybad and potentially dangerous
(21:13):
thing.
April Snow (21:15):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, I've always seen theability to embrace your
sensitivity as a privilege,because if you are someone who
is in survival mode, you comefrom an immigrant family where
it is about just getting throughthe day to day right, Pulling
yourself up.
Yeah, I imagine your parents arelooking at you in the corner
with your books and they're likewell, but then they start to
(21:38):
worry right to be resilientenough to take this to the next
level after all the hard workand sacrifice that they made to
create this different life foryou.
I can understand that right.
I mean, I'm not a BIPOC person,but there have been times in
life where I was struggling more, where sensitivity had to get
(22:00):
pushed to the side as much asyou can, because it's always in
you, but you do have to maskmore, so that, yeah, that could
be really concerning for parentsand I wonder, did that also?
Were you aware of that as wellat the time?
Like, Ooh, I should be lesssensitive or different.
Huong Diep (22:20):
Yes, yes, cause I think, being a sensitive kid,
you are aware, right, yeah,always.
What pleases and then also arecovering people pleaser, right
and over-parentified.
I think that intersectiondefinitely led me to be like, oh
, this is what my parents needof me, right?
Because I think, yeah, theytried to like train me right and
(22:41):
again with all the bestintentions that if I expressed
any worries, they would tell me,hey, don't be a baby.
There's like bigger things,like paying the bills and rents
and things to worry about.
Right, if like loud noises andare like cramped apartment
complex overwhelmed me, theywould really try to focus on
gratitude, which, again, isimportant, but you should be
grateful that we have a home anda roof over your head, right?
(23:04):
Or, I was always very silly I'msensitive to like tags on my
like stuff, right, I have to cutthem all out, and just
different like textures ofclothing.
But then I was deemed like toodemanding or picky.
So I think, yeah, I quicklylearned, oh, like, don't
complain.
Like, the more you complain,you're going to get negative
attention and people don't likethat, right.
(23:25):
And that, again, wanting tohelp my parents, seeing how hard
my parents were working, liketwo jobs all the time, you know.
And, yeah, I wanted to be aquote, unquote, good kid.
So then I figured out.
Oh, okay, to be a good kidmeans like I don't complain
about these things, even if theyreally bother me.
So, to really try to likeyounger Hong had to really find
(23:47):
different ways to self-soothe inorder to complete her tasks to
help her family, right?
So I understand I mean again asan adult, right that, yeah,
it's not even sometimesconvenient for me, right For my
sensitivities, where, you know,if I'm on a plane and there's
(24:07):
certain noises I wish I couldtune it out, right.
So I understand that survivalwas the priority.
But now that I have again, likeyou said, the privilege to have
more resources that I can nowtune into what current needs.
April Snow (24:24):
Yeah right, you can listen to those needs more
actively instead of needing topush them aside.
Yeah, it's hard, though,because that sensory sensitivity
, that tag, can't stop that.
But we also have to make surethat we're acclimating to our
environment or what parents needat the time, because your
parents were, I imagine theyjust didn't have parents need at
(24:45):
the time.
Because your parents were, Iimagine they just didn't have
capacity to think about the tagson your clothing.
Huong Diep (24:51):
Yeah, no, and I think, yeah, I think they were
just very confused and I thinkthat again, we also have to look
at the intersection of whattheir values and what was
important to them at the time.
Right, and maybe growing upduring a certain time period of
Vietnam and in more ruralsettings, that there were
(25:13):
certain expectations of whatkids do, and so I think that,
through their lens, I wasalready quite privileged that my
main job was to go to schooland maybe other things that
maybe them and their siblingshad to do, right, so again I can
see all the different nuancesand have compassion now, from a
(25:35):
distance, you know, for for allthe players, right, but it was
also, oh, my gosh, would I haveloved if someone could have
named that for me as a child.
Just be like, oh hey, like,that's okay that you don't like
this tag, like, let's just, youknow we'll take it off.
For, oh, you don't like thistexture, okay, like, what
texture do you like?
(25:56):
Like, let's go look at right,cause I do know that the
research does show that kids whoare HSPs if they get actually
the nurturance that they need,that is actually like a double
bonus, because they actuallythen right, they really grow up
to be very resilient folks whocan honor and nurture their
(26:17):
needs.
April Snow (26:17):
So, yes, yeah, because of our differential
susceptibility, we take thatgood and we just soak it up like
a sponge and we actually aremore resilient, which is not
what a lot of people wouldexpect.
Huong Diep (26:30):
No, definitely.
So I remember when I saw thatresearch, it really, you know,
was so inspiring and, I think,something that I remind clients
because a lot of my clientsmaybe, who are BIPOC or second
gen or multicultural or whatnot,oftentimes one of the ways they
get into therapy is not forthem, but it's because they
(26:51):
either have kids or they'rethinking about having kids right
or caretaking for youngchildren, and so I think they're
realizing, oh, I want to breakthese intergenerational patterns
or these different messagingsright, and so I think they are
very, you know, pertinent when Ido share with them like, hey,
like, the more you are able tovalidate and nurture and see and
(27:15):
just help your kids understandabout their different
sensitivities, it bodes superwell, you know, for them and
also could be a very reparativehealing process to them as well.
April Snow (27:28):
Absolutely.
I'm wondering if we could getinto how you're supporting your
clients to overcome some ofthese challenges we've talked
about.
Huong Diep (27:36):
Yeah, I think what I really love doing is, yeah,
helping clients be the part ofthe generation that breaks, like
, some of the old patterning andreally starts to question you
know different messaging andwhatnot and that you know.
I think, again, we always startoff very slowly, I think, for a
lot of folks maybe who havealready had a lot of fears right
(27:59):
about going into therapy.
I know that therapy has changeda lot of fears right about
going into therapy.
I know that therapy has changeda lot since when I first went
20 years ago, it was almost likethis you can't tell anybody
thing, right.
These days.
Right, I think it's a littlebit more mainstream, but still
right.
I think to admit that you, yeah,need some extra support, I
think is always like an amazingfirst step right, and I come
(28:22):
from it from a very like,non-judgmental and very
affirming perspective.
First, by just honoring all theways like their strategies
right, like things likeperfectionism,
over-parentification, avoidanceeven, or being a hyper-achiever,
right, like has helped themsurvive, and I just always
remind clients that how creativethey were younger than we're to
(28:45):
adapt, to make it this far,especially growing up with
families and cultures that, like, didn't make room for
sensitivity, right.
And so I think you know themore that they can understand
that those behaviors weren'trandom, that those coping
strategies came from somewhere,that they had like an adaptive
purpose at one point and itreally helped the younger
(29:08):
versions of them function andfeel safe.
But now that really questioningnow like, okay, do those coping
mechanisms, do they still serveyou?
Right?
What might be holding you backnow?
What no longer feels good?
Right, because I think that'sthe confusion I see from a lot
of clients.
They're like well,perfectionism has always helped
me get to this point in my life,but now why is it no longer
(29:30):
working?
Or having diminishing returnsor whatnot, right?
Or actually, for so many of myperfectionists they wouldn't
even say perfectionism becausethey're like well, I'm not
perfect enough to beperfectionist, enough to be
perfectionist, right?
April Snow (29:47):
so yeah, I think, coming from it again in a very
like gentle non-judgment, verycurious way and such a good
reminder that there's resilience, there's creativity.
You figured out how to survivewhile being sensitive in an
environment that couldn'tsupport your sensitivity right
the resources weren't there, theawareness wasn't there, but you
got through and I think that'ssuch an important piece to
(30:09):
highlight that there's strengthand resilience there and now
hopefully there's some abilityto soften, like a lot of my
BIPOC clients talk about that.
A lot is just want to softenand let the mass fall down, not
be strong all the time, let moreparts of themselves come
through, but there is anunderlying strength and
creativity there that isincredible.
Huong Diep (30:33):
Yeah, no, and that's amazing, the work that you're
doing and the clients are ableto feel that way.
And I don't know if you'reseeing this.
But then there's also a lot offear of like well, now that I'm
letting the mask down, what if Idon't like what I see?
Or what if, like other people,don't like what they see right?
Or oh, like I could have donethis.
(30:53):
Or like, oh, this is who right?
So I think that's where reallymeeting folks where they're at
and taking it very slowly rightas we're unpacking a lot of
things, whether it's throughlike parts work or EMDR, somatic
healing, and definitely withculturally informed care, just
to like know that there's goingto be a mix of like emotions,
(31:14):
and that there's, I think forsome clients, yeah, it's a mixed
bag of the joy, like we talkedabout, and reclaiming those
sensitive parts, to be like wait.
So you're saying it's okay thatlike I'm X, y, z, I'm like,
yeah, it's more than okay,that's who you are right.
But then there's also like alot of anger and sadness as they
realize how much their youngerselves are like belittled or
dismissed, things that theywould never tell like their
(31:37):
child or like another youngerperson, of course, yeah, there's
.
April Snow (31:44):
I mean, I just think about how your nervous system
is wired for protection andkeeping that mask on, so it can
even feel dangerous to start totake it off, and especially in
this climate, that danger feelsvery palpable.
So, yeah, so there's a lot oflayers there and I think that's
an important reminder that,please, you know it's important
to go at your own pace and notfeel like you have to rush the
process or it has to look anycertain way.
(32:07):
You have to be in control ofthat.
Huong Diep (32:11):
Yeah, definitely, Because sometimes for some of my
clients who you know, likethey're overachievers, right, or
that type of preference,they're like, okay, let's go
full steam ahead, and I alsohave to like slow them down and
be like hey, hey, like right, wewant to build this slowly.
We don't want to just pull therug out from under you, because
then you'll have no rug to standon.
All right, we're needing toalmost like slowly weave like a
(32:33):
new rug Right as you slowlystart transitioning over to
another rug.
And so I use a lot of metaphors,a lot of imagery, a lot of
examples in my work, just likeyeah, because I think sometimes
it can feel really scary anddaunting right to engage in this
work and I think my clientsfeel very grounded with me
(32:56):
because I think they know again,without overly disclosing in a
non-professional way, but Ithink they can tell and they
know that I'm on the journey aswell and I'm like, hey, like no
one's perfect here, there's nosuch thing as perfect.
We're all learning how to be.
You know, we're all souls inthis human body having these
human experiences, right, and so, yeah, sort of almost.
(33:20):
How do you learn more you knowabout yourself?
April Snow (33:25):
Yeah, it's good modeling for them, like we're
all imperfect and figuring itout and you're also walking that
journey, so they can trust youin that process.
Huong Diep (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, I think clients really appreciate my you
know.
I mean, they know I have likeall the degrees and they can
build up on that and see all ofthose things.
But I think what they reallyappreciate is they're always
like, oh, but you don't talklike a doctor or have this.
You know sort of not that I'mnot serious like in my work, but
I think I really try just to belike, yeah, this is like the
(33:54):
human struggle and so, yeah, itfeels really good, right,
because I think back in gradschool sometimes I would get
into trouble for not being likeprofessional enough, but I think
that's what draws people to me.
I think I just speak in areally real way and, you know,
try to sprinkle in humor whenappropriate, right, because,
(34:17):
yeah, this is like sometimesreally heavy stuff that we're
talking about.
April Snow (34:20):
Yeah, sometimes you need that levity just to take a
breath for a moment.
Yeah, sometimes you need thatlevity just to take a breath for
a moment.
Yeah, I can feel that, asyou're talking, just that
balance of that solid foundationof knowledge, but also there is
some lightness and someplayfulness.
That's great.
I love it.
Huong Diep (34:36):
Thank you.
Yeah yeah, I think you know,again, staying within our window
of tolerance, I think that'sreally important.
And then for myself as well,right, Like modeling that, I
think you know.
Again, staying within ourwindow of tolerance, I think
that's really important.
And then for myself as well,right, like modeling that.
And that, you know, I thinkoftentimes, yeah, I think I have
to model like hey, I thinkwe've done enough digging or
sounds like we've dug up somethings.
Right, like let's just reviewwhat we've dug up instead of I
(34:58):
think sometimes there's this,you know like it being an HSP is
nothing to fix, right.
So I think oftentimes peopleare digging to like fix it.
Like the more I understand it,the more I'm going to fix it.
I'm like, oh, it's not reallysomething wrong with you.
We're not like here to fixanything.
I think it's really more aboutthat understanding.
April Snow (35:16):
A hundred percent?
Yes, Well, Hong, I'm wonderingif there this has been an
amazing conversation.
I'm wondering if there's anyfinal messages that you want to
leave with our HSP listeners.
Huong Diep (35:28):
Yeah, I think something I tell myself is just
there's nothing wrong with you.
Like I said, truly the way youthink, the way you feel, the
depth, the intensity you bringto your life, that's your
superpower.
So, like, surround yourselfwith people who encourage that
exploration, people who help youget curious about who you are,
whether that's through supportgroups, therapy books, podcasts,
find spaces where you can hearother HSP stories and, like,
(35:52):
feel less alone and, I think,definitely listen to the wisdom
of your body, Like if somethingjust doesn't feel good, like
just stop.
Even if you haven't tuned intoyour body for years and a lot of
us are very dissociated fromour bodies it's always there,
you can always come back to itand you can really rebuild that
trust with yourself.
April Snow (36:13):
Such a good reminder that it's always there, even if
you've forgotten about it.
Huong Diep (36:18):
Yes, it's still here Doing its thing.
April Snow (36:21):
Exactly Well.
Thank you again so much foreverything you shared today and
helping us deepen thisconversation, bringing more
perspectives into our HSVcommunity.
I mean, that's such animportant piece and I will be
sure for any folks that want toreach out to you.
I'll share your website in theshow notes and I know you do
offer therapy consulting work.
Could you share a little bitmore about working with you?
Huong Diep (36:45):
Yeah, you know, like I said, I'm a licensed
psychologist.
I'm licensed in gosh.
You know five states likeCalifornia, nevada, south Dakota
, new York, dc.
I might be missing one, but youcan find all on my website.
I added all the additionallicensures, especially when it's
during the pandemic and justduring different periods where
(37:06):
I've noticed different groupsneeding additional support, and
so I think that was sort of myoffering was getting additional
licensures so that I could offermore.
And yeah, I'm available forindividual therapy, couples
therapy and consultations, andfolks can find me over my
website and I think, just toknow that, whether you've been
(37:28):
in therapy before or you'rebrand new to it, I think you can
see my style is like verycurious and really, yeah, I
think, just trying to meet you,like where you're at right, how
you got to where you are and howyou can move forward in a way
that feels like grounded andaligned, what makes you you and
that you know.
I think, if anything thisconversation resonated like, I'd
(37:49):
love to hear from you.
So, whether it's reaching out,connecting or just sitting with
these reflections, I just thinkthere's so much power and
sharing our story and findingcommunity.
So thank you again, april, forfor inviting me on and letting
me share.
Thank you, Hong this has been areally beautiful conversation.
April Snow (38:13):
Thanks so much for joining me and Hong for today's
conversation.
What I hope you'll take away isthat all parts of your
sensitive self are acceptableand welcome and it's important
to make space for them.
If you'd like to work with DrHong as a therapy or consulting
client, you can go to herwebsite, wwwdrhdiepcom.
That's wwwdrhdiepcom.
(38:39):
Links are also in the shownotes.
Dot drhdepcom.
Links are also in the shownotes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSP resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
(39:00):
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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