September 23, 2025 • 43 mins
How often do you take care of yourself? In this episode, I talk with Angelique Foye-Fletcher, LMFT, RPT about breaking the cycle of self-sacrifice and:
• How your cultural upbringing shapes your identity as an HSP
• Learning to take care of yourself when you grew up in an environment or culture that didn’t have room for your sensitivity
• Why simple acts of mindfulness are deeply healing and can change the way you parent
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (she/her) is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist and Registered Play Therapist who helps sensitive, neurodivergent adults and caregivers heal through her four pillars of Books, Nature, Play, and Connection. An INFJ, HSP, and Enneagram 4, Angelique brings curiosity, ritual, and deep empathy into her work—often lighting incense or walking in nature as part of her own healing practice.
Keep in touch with Angelique:
• Website: https://foyefletchertherapy.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/foyefletchertherapy
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@foyefletcherllc
Resources Mentioned:
• Parent/Caregiver Support: https://foyefletchertherapy.com/parentcaregiver-support-coaching
• Reconnect + Rejuvenate Support: https://foyefletchertherapy.com/coachingtherapy-packages
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https://www.sensitivestories.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (00:00):
When we think about the term cycle
breaker, it's being able torecognize that just because this
happened to this person, thisperson, this person doesn't mean
it stops here and full stop.
And that means also, literally,like undoing the work, firing
the brain, reestablishing asense of clarity and
(00:24):
connectedness to self,unapologetically.
April Snow (00:37):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:59):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode I talk withAngelique Foyer-Fletcher about
learning to take care ofyourself when you grew up in an
environment or culture thatdidn't have room for your
sensitivity.
Why simple acts of mindfulnessare deeply healing and learning
to ask yourself the questionwhat do I need now?
Marriage and family therapistand registered play therapist
(01:27):
who helps sensitive, nordivergent adult and caregivers
heal through her four pillars ofbooks, nature, play and
connection.
As an INFJ, hsp and Enneagram 4, angelique brings curiosity,
ritual and deep empathy into herwork, often lighting incense or
walking in nature as part ofher own healing practice.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind-the-scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
(01:51):
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Angelique, I'm so happy to haveyou on the podcast.
(02:30):
Thank you, it's really exciting.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (02:33):
Yes, I'm happy to be here.
Yes.
April Snow (02:35):
Me too, so excited to talk with you, and I wonder
if we could start off where westart off every episode, which
is looking at your HSP discoverystory.
I'd love to hear how or whenyou realize that you're highly
sensitive.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (02:49):
What a great question.
So how did I discover being anHSP?
It all started in high school.
When you know, like many of us,we want to know who are we?
April Snow (02:58):
What are we?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (02:58):
You know what I mean, and so I would
take a lot of personality tests.
I was 15, 16, like.
What am I?
And I'm like is my introvert?
Extrovert?
That was very big MBTI,myers-briggs.
And along the way I noticedlike I've always heard the term
(03:19):
very sensitive as well, but asmore of a deficit, but that
would keep coming up in mypersonality tests, or having
sensitivity towards just mythought process and my emotions,
and then it wasn't until I wasabout 28.
So about eight, six, sevenyears ago I just said wait,
(03:40):
there's this thing called H ishighly sensitive, empath
Instagram.
Everyone was talking about itand I'm like I think that's me,
so that's my process.
April Snow (03:46):
Yeah, it's true, you have this awareness before you
have the term.
And there's that seeking.
I resonate with that so much.
What's different about me?
Why am I so sensitive?
You're seeking right, trying tofigure it out and I've heard
that word too a lot Deficit ordifference.
Angelique Foye-Fletch (04:03):
Different .
Yeah, too much All the labels,tough enough thick skin.
I'm like, okay, what about justfeeling the vibes in the room?
Yeah, that's a strength,picking up on the things that no
one can feel and see.
April Snow (04:17):
It's a huge strength .
I don't think people realizethe benefit of that.
I think they take advantage ofthe benefits.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (04:23):
Yes.
April Snow (04:24):
Without actually realizing what's happening.
They love our emotionalconnection and empathy.
They love all that part, unlessit's until it gets maybe
inconvenient for them.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (04:35):
Correct .
April Snow (04:36):
Man, you really you're on it.
It's like this part is oh,there's so many beautiful
overlaps with whoever I talk toand it's just really beautiful
to see.
Oh, we all have a somewhatsimilar roots or journey.
Yeah.
So I wonder if we could dive ina little bit more deeply.
You mentioned your emotionalsensitivity.
(04:58):
I'm wondering how yourupbringing, your cultural
upbringing, has shaped that,shaped your identity as an HSP.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (05:06):
Absolutely for you because absolutely
shaped that, shaped youridentity as an hsp absolutely.
I remember in grads I have tostart with kind of this term we
call location of self.
So I'm a licensed marriagefamily therapist and I learned
this term in grad school back in2017 at purdue, where they said
, okay, you have to locateyourself, knowing your
privileges, your what, all theidentities that are marginalized
or historically oppressed, ifyou will.
(05:26):
But I had the opposite effect.
Right April I actually had a lotof deep-rooted connection as a
Ghanaian American so my motheris from Ghana, so West Africa
region or Nigeria, and I grew upwith the food, the culture, the
language, all those kinds ofthings right that gave me a
(05:48):
sense of pride, gave me a senseof belonging that really
resonated with me and helped mefeel grounded.
However, I also grew up as aBlack child in the South, where
there's many folks from similarpopulations who we look every
skin full of ancient kinfolk, aswe say, who actually see as
okay.
I have a disconnect because ofthe historical oppression and
(06:11):
racism and all the things right,Not tied to my I don't know
that part of me, but becauseyou're different from me.
That's when there's always thatdisconnect, that feeling of
othering, if you will.
And then I grew up in small townKansas, so add that in when
Midwest is very much about beingmeek, mild, quiet.
April Snow (06:33):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (06:34):
Don't be too loud.
And that was always just a hardjourney, hard space.
Because, as a Gunnian Americanwho's very rooted in being
jovialvial, loud, very familyoriented, very education
oriented those are I can locatemyself going back to that term,
locate myself as a gunningAmerican, growing up in the
(06:54):
Midwest with Midwestern andSouthern roots that was also
deeply influenced by inferiorand superior racialized
inferiority going on.
April Snow (07:08):
Anyway, it feels like you're getting oh gosh,
these beautiful Ghanian roots,but then you're getting pulled
away from that who you reallyare, and I just think about it.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (07:18):
Where do I fit?
Where do you?
April Snow (07:19):
fit Exactly and that could have been really
beautiful if you could live inthat as an HSP, getting to feel
your big joy.
I don't know how emotions areviewed or sensitivity is viewed,
but I could just imagine youcould take up some space maybe
versus putting yourself in thislittle tiny box.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (07:34):
You bring up an interesting point,
april.
It was funny because it's notthat.
I was actually the quiet,sensitive, shy, reserved.
Oh, she has a voice but she'snot using it.
Always getting that in theclassroom.
April Snow (07:50):
Yep.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (07:51):
Where my culture is the opposite.
Again, loud, brazen, bold allthat kind of thing.
And I just wasn't able to honein on that.
Yeah, or dare I say, beingencouraged or supported.
April Snow (08:03):
I feel like you could have filled up that space.
What stops you?
Is it being in the environmentyou're in?
Is it family?
Is it teachers in the classroom?
What stops?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (08:13):
you.
April Snow (08:13):
Yeah, if you're open to sharing that.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (08:16):
Absolutely .
When I look back on myexperience, what always stopped
me was I was almost discouragedto.
I was encouraged to have avoice, but make sure it fits my
voice.
Make sure it fits doesn't,because I was blunt as well.
So, as an INFJ the onepercenters, everybody out there
(08:38):
I'll just you know, whatever itis.
I'm just like okay, I never had,I had the capacity to.
I had this deep internal world,really like getting lost in
there, loving kind of thenarratives and all that kind of
stuff, but my emotions and mybrain sometimes would just feel
like a scramble, and so whenteachers would see me zoning out
, yep I was a good kid because Iwasn't talking.
(09:02):
Yep yeah, people pleasing allthat kind of stuff, my
trauma-responsive fawning.
Because guess what?
There were some abandonmentwounds, some rejection wounds
that I experienced early on inmy childhood that even just
having a deep-rooted identitywith being Gunnian wasn't enough
to feel seen, if that makessense.
April Snow (09:28):
Makes total sense.
The sensitive quiet ones getlabeled the good kid, when, yes,
we're quiet on the outside butthere's a storm happening inside
and you need space for that andto be able to take those
emotions somewhere for someoneto check in what's happening in
there, what's going on underthat quiet facade and sometimes
quiet.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (09:45):
We're naturally quiet, but sometimes
we're quiet because we're shutdown true, I don't know the
difference sometimes, yeah yeah,it all looks the same yeah, and
when you have a parent who'snot as present with their own
emotions because they got asingle parent, you got to take
care of the kids.
A household yeah, I'moverwhelmed, but then I'm also
like my kid is fine, I live withmy sister.
(10:08):
They're playing in the roomquietly.
But I'm also like I need to beoutside of nature.
April Snow (10:13):
You were needing things to feed your kind of
sensitive soul.
Your INFJ personality.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (10:19):
And it was just.
It was like few and farinconsistent.
April Snow (10:21):
You're not getting that nourishment.
Yeah, yeah, it's tough.
I didn't have the sameexperience at all, but I can
resonate a lot with the quietlysuffering or being the good one
in the chaos and okay, we don'tneed to worry about you, but
there's things that you needright To just satisfy that depth
and that connection and likethe strong emotionality.
(10:42):
You also said that you'reblunts naturally, which I always
get excited about.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (10:47):
Yes, hsps can be blunts, we can be
outspoken yes, that was always aI say it with justin funny now,
but growing up I heard that somuch like angela, she's great,
she's nice, she's fun and shecan be really blunt.
Yeah, but you say it in thatsometimes you just kind of ah.
(11:08):
So I would wear my emotions onmy sleeve.
And again, my thought processwas disjointed because, think
about it, I grew up, also grewup.
I didn't tell you this, but Ihad German roots as well.
So through transracial adoption, grandma, whatever, yeah, she
was spoke different languages.
So I had two people in myhousehold who didn't, whose
first language was in english.
So the thought pattern, theconnection, there's, yep, some
(11:32):
disjointedness there so then mythought process was hard
sometimes to say what am Ifeeling versus what am I
thinking, and I just would sayit yeah, you're trying to
process it out loud.
April Snow (11:43):
Perhaps I was a what they say external processor.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (11:44):
Yes.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just trying to process it outloud, perhaps I was a.
It was an external processor.
April Snow (11:46):
Yes, yeah, that makes sense, just trying to put
all the pieces together.
But then I've heard this from alot of hsps, especially hsps
who come from cultures that aremore outspoken, maybe more
extroverted, where they feellike, oh, I can't be my
sensitive self and be this,maybe blunt, outspoken or
external processor, like thosepieces maybe don't fit, even
though they could fit it's justit's every difference should be
(12:11):
embraced.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (12:11):
What you should acknowledge like
there's there's nothing aboutthe sense of healthy
confrontation.
That's something that I that'sa term I learned when I was
taking the clinical exam, I wantto say last year, and it was
very interesting.
I was like healthyconfrontation, what is that?
That's what I thought I wasdoing with other people when
they would get in my space orI'm overloaded or whatever, and
then I'm like I want to sharewith you, but then I didn't have
(12:34):
any boundaries set up uh youknow what I mean.
People get away with talkingcrazy and then I reach my limit
and it goes out.
What's different with?
April Snow (12:42):
bound.
If you have a boundary set up,how does that become different
for you?
Just for folks who may not befamiliar with that yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (12:50):
So how I look at it is like boundaries.
It's like your house, right,and there's a fence around your
house and you have threedifferent types of fences.
Either you have a wooden fence,where people can see, overlook,
but they know not to get near,but there's a gate.
The second one there's a gateopen, but there's a gate.
The second one is a gate open,but there's no lock.
Anyone can come in anytime.
It's there Like a porousboundary.
(13:10):
If you will, you allow theboundary to happen.
You don't.
You set the boundary, but youstill let it happen.
And then, the last one is just afortress, this large, big thing
that covers the whole house.
No one can get in, and so, fora long time, how I would define
boundaries is just knowing thatthis is me loving you and loving
me at the same time.
Yes, this is letting you know.
This is where I draw the linehere, this is where I recognize
(13:31):
that I can't be in the spaceLike what you're saying, what
you're doing to me, is affecting, kind of our connection, and so
this is me lovingly confrontingyou, yes, and letting you know
that this is the fence, this isprotected property.
And to ensure our friendship,co-worker relationship, romantic
(13:52):
relationship, whatever.
It's important to establishthat, and sometimes you have to
shift those boundaries.
April Snow (13:58):
Yeah, they can be.
They can change Right Person toperson moment to moment.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (14:04):
But they have to be established and
it's not the job of the person.
Toxic people typically willfeel entitled to ignore it.
Dr Adam Grant said that he's agreat IO psychologist.
Toxic people typically feelentitled to ignore your
boundaries, where healthy peopleknow that they need to maintain
the boundaries, and I just thatresonated with me as a HSP.
Yeah, and recognizing the spacethat I want to provide for
(14:26):
others.
April Snow (14:27):
Boundaries are just part of relationships.
I think some people interpretthem as distance or a problem,
but it's really just keeping therelationship healthy balanced
Right.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (14:39):
Balanced yes.
April Snow (14:41):
Exactly, and we need to be able to confront people.
I think HSP struggle with thata lot.
We're afraid of confrontationof conflict.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (14:47):
Yeah, I was guilty of that.
Yeah, Same.
April Snow (14:50):
But I've seen just how it actually strengthens a
relationship, right, because ifyou're not fighting, ooh, things
are festering.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (15:01):
Yes, that's right yeah, yes.
Yeah, so you've had quite thehealing journey yourself.
April Snow (15:09):
it sounds like really reflecting on your early
years as a sensitive child andadolescent, and then bringing
that into focus of what, whatwas going on and how, the
cultural elements in whichgreatly influence our experience
of sensitivity.
So I'm wondering how does thatinfluence you now?
Angelique Foye-Fletc (15:25):
supporting others, yes, yeah so currently
in my life, right now, I am justhave the privilege and honor to
be a mother of two beautifulchildren, and I'm a wife of a
wonderful civil servant so I'lljust keep it at that.
He works for the city and weboth have high stress jobs in a
(15:46):
sense of, and also where we'reat in our family life cycle of
parenting two young kids underfour.
April Snow (15:52):
Oh yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (15:53):
And I'm married to an introvert.
He's an.
I'm an introvert.
Yeah, I have put a lot.
How I show up for others ismaking sure that I pour into
myself at home.
This is me.
I think about it as, and it'sbeen off and on.
Sometimes it's like Ioverextend myself, over-function
, as it happens, becausesometimes the body just does,
(16:14):
the body does the thing, andsometimes it slows down.
I had to learn the hard lesson,right.
But how I show up for others isbeing able to pour a water can
into myself like a plant, rightAt home, right.
Others is being able to pour awater can into myself like a
plant right at home, right.
I myself am an indoor plant.
I need sunlight, right.
I need to be outside, I need tohave oxygen, so breathing right
, being present, being mindfuland creating a structure and
(16:37):
environment, a home where it'sjust safe to be.
Yeah, like when you're growingup with two different homes
Louisiana here, kansas there.
This home is parented this way,this home is parented this way.
You just you don't ever reallyhave a standard grounded.
It's like growing up in adivorced family, like there's
(16:58):
just different rules applydifferently and you don't know
what to expect.
So I work with a lot of clientslike that.
Who?
April Snow (17:04):
are trying, who have been disjointed, or trying to
navigate two different worlds atthe same time?
Yeah, it's a very toughtransition for an HSP.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (17:14):
And yeah, you're right.
And so as far as, like being amother before I became a mom, I
recognized I have to heal.
First start that healingjourney.
So then it's not harder forthem to feel like they have to
recover from childhood, Becausechildhood can be difficult, no
matter what the best intentions.
(17:36):
Sometimes you just will makemistakes.
But if you can be open tobuilding upon knowing that maybe
there is some work that I needto do, the reparenting piece-
yeah, setting up structure formyself?
Absolutely yeah, so then I canshow up for my clients and not
be burnt out and take it out onthem, take it out on my family
(17:57):
at home.
This is not fair, it's notright, it's not fair.
April Snow (18:00):
Your childhood is inherently stressful.
It's a lot of developmentthat's happening and inner
exploration, but you can createa stronger foundation for your
kids than what you had ofgrounded steadiness, yeah, and
so does this.
I think this stems into yourwork with cycle breakers, would
(18:21):
you say, and could you tellfolks a little bit about what
that is?
I think we've already alludedto it, but if we could define it
for folks who maybe haven'theard that term before,
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (18:32):
When we think about the term cycle
breaker, it's being able torecognize that when I just had
brunch with a friend of mine, agirlfriend of mine, who said
it's not generational cursesyou're trying to break, it's in
generational trauma right.
The trauma wounds.
It's you saying, it's someonesaying just because this
happened to this person doesn'tmean that it gets.
(18:53):
Stops here, okay and full stop.
And that means also literallylike undoing the work, firing
the brain, reestablishing asense of clarity and
connectedness to self,unapologetically.
April Snow (19:17):
Love that.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (19:19):
Yeah.
April Snow (19:20):
I just think about this kind of just putting up a
dam right and redirecting theriver, like we can go in a
different direction from here.
We don't have to continue theseintergenerational patterns that
we inherited, because that'swhat it is, it's patterns.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (19:38):
It's patterns, dare I say almost,
because there wasn't likeconsistent patterns.
It's like I have to fill in thegap and recognize.
Okay, if you grew up in a homewhere it was chaotic and
confusing and unpredictableright so somewhere along the way
you had to learn to be aware ofwhen daddy's mood is off or be
understanding of some tensionthere.
(19:59):
But now you're a grown person inyour own house and you still
feel keyed up and on edge.
Maybe you didn't put picturesin the house because you don't
feel like it's feel aconnectedness to it.
But you can cycle.
Breaking is not just thisradical.
Do all the MDR sessions.
It helps.
I'm not going to lie.
It will accelerate.
Yeah, it's not.
It's not everything.
It's not everything, yeah.
April Snow (20:21):
And you frame a good point.
If you grew up feeling on edge,scared, have to be
hypervigilant to whatever'shappening and read the room at
all times, yeah, that doesn'tjust fade away as soon as you
move into your own space, you'recarrying those ghosts with you.
And gosh, even just the pieceabout hanging up the pictures I
remember reading this.
(20:41):
There's a book about thenervous system.
It was like people that grew upin those conditions we just
don't know how to live.
That resonated with me a lot.
Yeah, not doing simple thingslike settling into a space
hanging up a photo, because whatif you have to leave sooner?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (20:54):
Yep.
April Snow (20:54):
You're on edge, but that can change, doing the work
and, yeah, giving yourselfpermission to, or maybe
acknowledging that you're safein your own home, acknowledging,
but you have to understand,define safety and security.
Different for everybody, and Ihad to do that.
Yeah, yeah, do you want to saymore about how you did that?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (21:22):
Taylor Thomas and this amazing comedian
female comedian like in her midtwenties, I've been sure people
know from the audience.
She talked about how thetwenties are you're expected to
fuck up.
April Snow (21:32):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (21:32):
Like people expect you to mess up,
fuck up and so that resonatedwith me in the saying okay, so I
had permission, like lookingback in my twenties, looking
like doing all the thingspermission like looking back in
my twenties looking like doingall the things, like going out
to clubs when I don't know it,that's not my style.
I was a very sensory overloadliving with roommates when I
don't like living with people Idon't really genuinely care
about.
You know what I'm saying.
That's to blunt me saying Ijust don't.
(21:53):
I have this allergic reactionto being in an environment where
it's too loud, too smelly, toomany people, and yet I just kept
going yeah, what you's supposedto do, you're supposed to do.
The fear of FOMO was real andat the same time it was learning
.
It was input, learning input.
But again, your frontal lobeain't lobing.
Yep, not yet.
(22:14):
So it was like, yes, I wishsomeone would have told me like
I expect you to make mistakesand fuck up and learn along the
way, but then don't make too bigof a mistake.
April Snow (22:26):
Yep.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (22:27):
Because redirect the path.
It's this way.
April Snow (22:30):
You don't have the privilege to mess up so much.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (22:33):
Exactly so.
It's just always all gas notank.
All gas, no brakes.
I should say I'm in my 20s andI just recognize like I have to
just slow down, be intentional,and that looks like defining
what security, stability lookslike redefining it for myself,
and some folks who might belistening might be saying what
(22:55):
does she mean by that?
I get that Because you're likego chat to BT and you're like
security is this you're like gochat to bt and you're like
security, is this right, youcould?
April Snow (23:07):
there's a standard definition, but yeah, it's
different.
How would you be able to sharemaybe one example of what
security means for?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (23:12):
you.
I think it's an idea.
I would say an example of thatfor myself.
How it presents is like beingable to say I'm okay.
April Snow (23:27):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (23:29):
I'm safe, I'm loved, I'm okay.
April Snow (23:33):
Yeah, wow, and that's true.
Maybe it wasn't before.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (23:41):
Buddhist principle would say yes no,
maybe we don't know.
We don't know why things happenthe way they do.
Yes, maybe there's a reason,maybe, and there's this really
great Japanese author I'm don'tgot the name, but he wrote a lot
on the male loneliness pandemicback in way back in the
epidemic, I should say back inthe late 80s and he talked about
.
He said pain is inevitable,suffering is optional.
April Snow (24:05):
Oh, did not hon.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (24:06):
Yeah, yes, and that resonated with me
so much, because cycle breakingis saying the life is of pain
and it's inevitable.
Right the suffering, theinternal struggles, the not
recognizing that you need arelease and to let go of guilt
and understand that whathappened as a kid was not OK.
April Snow (24:29):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (24:29):
Or that maybe the adults in your life
didn't have what they needed tomake sure that you're OK, safe,
secure.
But you get to do that.
Work now, not too late.
To do that work now, not toolate, not too late.
And it just starts by justhaving the courage to still live
a life worth living.
April Snow (24:49):
Yeah, that's hopeful , like, even if it was hard
before, it was hard yesterday,you still have time to find that
safety, to say to yourself I'mokay, I'm safe here.
Even if I wasn't safe then,yeah, oh yeah, that's powerful.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (25:12):
It's just as simple as saying because
when you ask me like security,because I'm still on that
journey of okay, I know that ifI can say there's a little part,
there's a little, there'slittle, me saying am I okay?
And big me saying you are, I'mhere.
The four therapeutic powers ofplay says I am here, I see you,
I feel you, I see you.
(25:33):
So those are the things I seeyou, I hear you, I feel you, I
am here.
That's what play is about Toyourself.
April Snow (25:40):
I guess as an adult you could say it to yourself,
but as a play therapist, are yousaying it to the kiddos?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (25:44):
you're working with.
Yeah, beautiful, yes.
April Snow (25:48):
I love that, so I'm here.
I see you.
Yeah, I'm safe.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (25:52):
I am here.
April Snow (25:53):
I am here.
Yeah, it's so simple but sopowerful and, like you said,
it's a starting to rewire thosemessages right, Reframe the
messages, rewire your braintowards safety.
So in your work as a playtherapist and as a parent, I'm
curious what practices do youbring in for the adults in those
(26:14):
scenarios?
You use a lot of mindfulness,grounding practices.
You mentioned finding that safe, grounded space at home.
What does that look like?
What?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (26:23):
are some of those practices.
Oh yeah, as far as with myclients, yeah, or yourself or
myself.
April Snow (26:30):
yeah, for the sensitive cycle breakers out
there who are wondering what arethe practices that I'm talking
to myself differently but arethere other things that I'm
bringing in?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (26:39):
Oh, beautiful question.
It's practical.
But I'll go to my earlier thingof treat yourself like an
indoor plant.
April Snow (26:48):
I love this metaphor or outdoor plant.
What do they need?
They?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (26:51):
need lots of sunlight, so you need
vitamin D Drink water.
This is basic, but it's justthose things, right.
April Snow (26:59):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (27:00):
Grounded .
Go outside.
That's what I like to do.
I like to walk outside and feelmy feet on the earth yep to feel
a sense of connected to myancestors, right, oil that they
were on and being, gave methanks and everything like that,
as well as just walking.
So movement is medicine, natureis medicine.
And then being able to eat anourishing meal, right, that
(27:23):
looks like being more mindful oflike anti-inflammatory diet,
eating all the stuff that'scolorful on my plate.
That's healthy.
Yeah, yeah, just.
And I think, listening in,tuning in, tuning in to what I
need, what is it that I needright now?
For example, me having thisconversation with you is very
nourishing for me because it'smy way of I'm able to connect to
(27:47):
someone without having to overexplain or just being.
I set the space up for this,yeah, because it was an
intention, it was an act.
I wanted to make sure this is.
These two things behind me areactually, you can see, here.
Yeah, I don't know if they'llbe able to see, but they're my
(28:07):
what do you call it?
From the Akan tribe.
That's from where I'm from, andmy mother got this from when
she visited Ghana 30 years ago,and they are kente cloth, so her
grandmother wore this, and sothis is what's behind me to keep
me rooted and grounded.
And then, in the middle, is myfamily, an multicultural family
me being married to an expat, mymom, my gunny, my British
(28:29):
family, all the things you know.
April Snow (28:31):
That's so beautiful.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (28:35):
These are your roots there in physical
form.
April Snow (28:43):
So important to have those symbols, those connection
points.
And I appreciate what you'resaying about these pieces that
are medicine, because I think ifyou grew up in more of a
chaotic or traumatic environment, I know from my own experience
those simple things were hard orthey didn't get to take space
Hard to come by.
So even just saying, what do Ineed now is a revelation,
because that was a luxurygrowing up it was.
(29:03):
So what do I need now is arevelation, because that was a
luxury growing up it was.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (29:05):
So what do I need now?
What do I not deserve?
What do I have to earn?
My body is giving me signalsand telling me that it's as
simple as me lighting an incense.
I remember in grad school Ijust started getting on the term
of like self-care, because it'sall the things stress and if
(29:25):
you already come from astressful environment, you're
like, okay, I'm just throwinginto it.
But I was like, okay, Iactually need to shift the gears
here and understand what doesthat mean?
April Snow (29:33):
right.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (29:34):
So I was making smoothies every day
or being able to.
Someone told me once, like myroommate, she said like I
treated my room like a temple,which is like interesting.
Because I was like what do youmean by that?
Because I would have, I wouldlight my incense grounding
practice.
Look at the smoke, let itdissipate you know what I mean.
Read a book.
(29:54):
Low lights, light a candle,love lighting candles, the
Himalayan salt candles, theHimalayan salt, just even just
my eyes able to see.
Okay, this is soft and it'shelping me re-engage into my
senses and having my water onthe side.
April Snow (30:09):
Yeah, I love this.
Just the intentionality, takingcare of your senses, your
nervous system.
But, deeper than that, havingthe rituals.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (30:17):
I love that.
Stability is routines ritualsyes.
April Snow (30:21):
Routines and rituals R yes routines and rituals.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (30:23):
Routines and rituals, rituals is not
something that's like evil orwhatever some stuff right.
It's just this consistentroutine that allows me to pour
into myself, that regulates mynervous system that's it.
April Snow (30:36):
I think people get scared away by that term ritual,
but it is just these, it'straditions, it's practices,
right, it's the things that youdo regularly for yourself, or
bringing that intentionality,bringing some sacred energy,
something we need that as humans, and especially sensitive
humans, something beyondourselves sensitive souls yeah,
(30:56):
exactly, we need something topour into those souls.
Yeah, this feels like maybe ithad that in you all along.
It's just tapping into it more.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (31:09):
Yeah, it was always in me.
I just just be honest.
I just never really tapped intoit because of just something
else.
Someone else needed somethingfor me.
Their needs was more importantthan mine.
Or this is how I can get love,or this is how I can get love,
or this is how I can securesomething.
But I recognize like I can't.
I keep pouring from an emptycup?
(31:31):
Yeah, I think.
April Snow (31:32):
Yeah, you get to that point where you just
realize I can't do that anymore.
I'm at the bottom.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (31:37):
And let's call it what it is.
As a black woman in America.
You know what I mean.
April Snow (31:40):
You're beyond empty Generations of emptiness, yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (31:44):
And so living my soft girl life,
romanticizing my life.
Those are things that mysisters and I have been talking
about lately, because I do MarcoPolo every day with my best
friend she was out in DC andthat in itself is routine,
structured ritual that reallyhelps me feel grounded and
connected, being able to talkverbally, process out loud, and
(32:05):
just knowing that driving,driving helps me just regulate
as well, but knowing that I amthe work, because we are the
work right.
I do this work because I amcontributing to this community
by helping little ones have avoice, have a space, feel
(32:28):
connected, helping parents asthey're parenting, helping
adults who haven't even heardthe term rest and rejuvenation,
relaxed, right, or knowing thatthey're at burnout, they're at
the danger of just crashing outyeah and they're like I need a
space to.
I love when clients come and sayI just need a space to deeply
(32:49):
reflect what's going on, just aspace to be there, yes to be
held.
My feelings can be held softlyand can be seen with gentle and
tenderness that we all deserveyeah, and creating that safe
space somewhere.
April Snow (33:05):
That could be the first safe space, the therapy
room, potentially.
And I just want to go back tosomething you said which is
really important, which is youdon't have to earn those spaces,
you don't have to earn thatself-care and, yeah, you can
here.
So you're cycle breaking foryourself, for your family, with
(33:26):
your kids.
You're helping others cyclebreak, learn to reparent
themselves, parent their ownchildren differently than they
were parented.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (33:33):
Noticing and understanding and leaning
with curiosity about it.
Not with judgment, just withcuriosity.
April Snow (33:39):
What's important about being curious, not
judgmental.
Angelique Foye-Fletch (33:44):
Curiosity offers a sense of freedom and
liberation and the sense of andwe're all born with it.
Kids are naturally childlike,curious.
I love when kids ask why, why?
Why?
Because that's a kid who'sseeking and understanding their
world and trying to get input.
And when you look at it from ajudgment place like why me, why
this it's you undo, you'reputting an unhealthy amount of
(34:05):
guilt.
You're putting this unrealisticexpectation on yourself to have
understood everything thathappened to you.
Now, it's not why that happened, what happened right as Dr
Bruce Perry talked about withOprah and stuff.
But curiosity is, that's beensomething that's been a strength
of mine, like I've dare I say,a value value.
April Snow (34:29):
Yeah, makes sense right something that you hold in
esteem.
And yeah, instead ofcriticizing, we can be curious
what do I need?
What happened to me?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (34:40):
it's softer, it, it's softer.
It's again the reparenting, thebicycle, breaking processes,
being able to tell, talk to yourinner child and say I know
you're scared, I know you're notunderstanding why your body,
your brain, is sending signalsto your body to say these things
all the time.
And now I am the adult to sayit's okay and I get it.
(35:06):
And you're right to feel scaredand you're right to be
questioning why is thishappening?
What's going on?
And you didn't deserve it andyou don't deserve it.
But let's softly walk away,play with the toy, connect with
me and be seen yeah, it's sopowerful, you're happy.
(35:30):
You say that to me every dayhonestly, for my mission in life
is to like look to help othersfeel seen, loved and supported.
If I had to just be real bluntwith you and be like okay, the
niche and stuff.
It's like I help people break,like no, I want people to feel
loved, seen, supported.
If this is their first time notfeeling it, I want to be able
to give them, offer a spacethat's warm, inviting, curious,
(35:57):
kind, so then it can allow yourbody and your brain to say, okay
, perhaps I could lean intobeing softer to myself, perhaps
I didn't deserve what happened,even though the narrative is
saying these things, and maybe Icould also rewrite the story.
(36:21):
Maybe look at the generationalgifts I got versus the
generational trauma.
It's a both.
Yeah, I came from a highlystructured, matriarchal,
beautiful home, no matter what,no matter what was going on.
I came from a matriarchal,highly independent, amazing
(36:45):
women who poured love into usthe best way they can, with what
they had and still showed upFull stop.
April Snow (36:55):
Still showed up.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (37:00):
And I'm doing that for my kids and it's
going to look different andthey may say there was things I
wish you could have donedifferent and I have to be open
to that.
I'm open and curious to that.
I don't have to like it, Right?
April Snow (37:13):
But I know it's going to happen If they're going
to be in somebody's therapist'soffice.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (37:17):
I'm like at least they can say was I
had a too good childhood right,slip the other way my mom was
too understanding.
April Snow (37:25):
Sometimes I wish, but anyway I can talk, I can
ramble oh no, this is beautiful,but even in all in the chain,
it seems like you're holdingthose roots, those values, in
place in a different package ina different package which is
really beautiful, and just areminder that it's not all bad.
We can look at the nuance,which I know is hard, can take a
(37:48):
long time to do that it doesyeah but there's maybe some
nuggets in there that you wantto keep.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (37:54):
But yeah, change the narrative,
change the packaging, yeah angera long time clouded my anger,
resentment, frustration and justinjustices, because when you're
hsp, you have a highlysensitive, high sensitivity to
any injustice all injustices,injustices, and when, for a long
time, if you've been that vocal, outspoken child who's also
(38:18):
highly sensitive, always put thekibosh on At some point, you
just I can't believe I'm sayingthis.
But the biggest thing, I reallymy biggest takeaway was like I
don't like everybody.
Everybody don't got to like me.
Why am I people pleasing forpeople who's got people all over
(38:39):
you?
Okay, like maybe I should startdoing the opposite, like I was
just tired of like peoplepleasing, fawning, not making
sure I'm into my words or bluntand have to say sorry and feel
bad all the time I just saidokay, let me just try the other
thing of what if I just I likeme and that's enough.
April Snow (38:56):
I like who I am as I am that's it, because if you
like yourself, everything elseis going to be okay it's going
to be okay.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:03):
But for a long time I didn't think I
could.
Or yeah, or there's somethingto fix before I can like myself
and I'm like no, I am fine theway I am.
I'm a good friend, wife,everything like that.
Mother.
I try my best, I'm willing to.
There's a difference?
I'm willing to.
There's a difference.
I'm willing to accept faultwhen fault is there.
April Snow (39:20):
That's important.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:22):
And then also know that if I'm
asking questions like am I agood parent, Just the fact that
I'm asking that is already.
April Snow (39:30):
That's it.
If you're asking thosequestions, you already know that
everything's going to be okay.
It's when you're not asking thequestions that you're in a deep
spot, when it's not even onyour radar.
Angelique, we have to start towrap up, but this has been such
a good conversation.
I feel like I've known you foryears.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:48):
Same same, really, yeah.
April Snow (39:50):
Truly I'm wondering if there's any final messages
you have for the listeners whoare sensitive cycle breakers
themselves.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:59):
Yes, have for the listeners who are
sensitive cycle breakersthemselves.
Yes, oh, we're worthy of thelove that you give to others.
So go ahead and take care ofyourself.
Know that you don't have to allfigure it out.
Be curious, love others, loveyourself and be kind to your
mind.
April Snow (40:15):
Thank you for that.
It's such a good reminder thatyou can send that empathy back
in and you can start today.
Thank you for that.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (40:26):
You're welcome.
April Snow (40:27):
For anyone who wants to work with you, which I
highly recommend.
I'll share all of yourresources in the show notes,
your website, your social media.
You often teach workshops, sofolks can find those there.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (40:39):
That's right.
April Snow (40:40):
I'm excited to do virtual workshops.
Thank you.
So anywhere in the world?
Yep, beautiful, love that, andso can you tell us a little bit
more about working with you, ifthey're interested in coming to
see you for?
Therapy or engaging with yourother offerings.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (40:54):
Absolutely so.
I offer individual therapy foradults.
I will do play therapy forkiddos from three to 11, as well
as starting to see teens.
April Snow (41:04):
Wonderful.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (41:05):
Yep, and the best way you can get to
me.
Obviously, if you live inKansas and Missouri because I'm
licensed there, that'd be great.
But I also offer virtualcoaching workshops or coaching
sessions for those who live outof state to talk about
caregiving.
If you're caregiving for anolder adult or a child and you
just want a space to talk andconnect, you can do virtual that
(41:25):
way, and then I'm located inthe Midtown Westport area in
Kansas City and open forpractice.
Please feel free to visit thewebsite.
I also do speaking engagements,happy to talk to your school,
your retreat, your corporateretreats, to talk about
creativity and play therapy.
April Snow (41:42):
I love it.
So many beautiful offeringsfolks can tap into because, yeah
, if you're caregiving, ifyou're trying to navigate some
of these pieces, it's helpful tohave a space with someone who
gets it.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (41:53):
Absolutely .
You're not alone, you're notalone, even if it feels alone,
it's absolutely, you're notalone.
April Snow (42:00):
You know, even if it feels alone, it's very
isolative being a caregiver?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (42:02):
it is absolutely.
It can be, so just have a spaceto dedicated to talk about all
the things yeah, and you cancreate a safe space for them
that's right yeah, I love it.
April Snow (42:09):
thank you so much.
Thanks so much for joining meand Angelique for today's
conversation.
What I hope you remember isthat, even if you didn't grow up
being encouraged to embraceyour sensitivity or to
prioritize your needs, you canstart now.
It's never too late If you needspace and support to reset.
(42:33):
Join Angelique for one of herRest and Rejuvenate virtual
sessions or work with herone-to-one.
All details are on her websiteat foyerfletchertherapycom.
Foyer, spelled F-O-Y-E.
All links are in the show notes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(42:54):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSB resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
When we think about the term cycle
breaker, it's being able torecognize that just because this
happened to this person, thisperson, this person doesn't mean
it stops here and full stop.
And that means also, literally,like undoing the work, firing
the brain, reestablishing asense of clarity and
(00:24):
connectedness to self,unapologetically.
April Snow (00:37):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author, april Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:59):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode I talk withAngelique Foyer-Fletcher about
learning to take care ofyourself when you grew up in an
environment or culture thatdidn't have room for your
sensitivity.
Why simple acts of mindfulnessare deeply healing and learning
to ask yourself the questionwhat do I need now?
Marriage and family therapistand registered play therapist
(01:27):
who helps sensitive, nordivergent adult and caregivers
heal through her four pillars ofbooks, nature, play and
connection.
As an INFJ, hsp and Enneagram 4, angelique brings curiosity,
ritual and deep empathy into herwork, often lighting incense or
walking in nature as part ofher own healing practice.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind-the-scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, tiktok or YouTube at
(01:51):
Sensitive Strengths or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestoriescom.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Angelique, I'm so happy to haveyou on the podcast.
(02:30):
Thank you, it's really exciting.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (02:33):
Yes, I'm happy to be here.
Yes.
April Snow (02:35):
Me too, so excited to talk with you, and I wonder
if we could start off where westart off every episode, which
is looking at your HSP discoverystory.
I'd love to hear how or whenyou realize that you're highly
sensitive.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (02:49):
What a great question.
So how did I discover being anHSP?
It all started in high school.
When you know, like many of us,we want to know who are we?
April Snow (02:58):
What are we?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (02:58):
You know what I mean, and so I would
take a lot of personality tests.
I was 15, 16, like.
What am I?
And I'm like is my introvert?
Extrovert?
That was very big MBTI,myers-briggs.
And along the way I noticedlike I've always heard the term
(03:19):
very sensitive as well, but asmore of a deficit, but that
would keep coming up in mypersonality tests, or having
sensitivity towards just mythought process and my emotions,
and then it wasn't until I wasabout 28.
So about eight, six, sevenyears ago I just said wait,
(03:40):
there's this thing called H ishighly sensitive, empath
Instagram.
Everyone was talking about itand I'm like I think that's me,
so that's my process.
April Snow (03:46):
Yeah, it's true, you have this awareness before you
have the term.
And there's that seeking.
I resonate with that so much.
What's different about me?
Why am I so sensitive?
You're seeking right, trying tofigure it out and I've heard
that word too a lot Deficit ordifference.
Angelique Foye-Fletch (04:03):
Different .
Yeah, too much All the labels,tough enough thick skin.
I'm like, okay, what about justfeeling the vibes in the room?
Yeah, that's a strength,picking up on the things that no
one can feel and see.
April Snow (04:17):
It's a huge strength .
I don't think people realizethe benefit of that.
I think they take advantage ofthe benefits.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (04:23):
Yes.
April Snow (04:24):
Without actually realizing what's happening.
They love our emotionalconnection and empathy.
They love all that part, unlessit's until it gets maybe
inconvenient for them.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (04:35):
Correct .
April Snow (04:36):
Man, you really you're on it.
It's like this part is oh,there's so many beautiful
overlaps with whoever I talk toand it's just really beautiful
to see.
Oh, we all have a somewhatsimilar roots or journey.
Yeah.
So I wonder if we could dive ina little bit more deeply.
You mentioned your emotionalsensitivity.
(04:58):
I'm wondering how yourupbringing, your cultural
upbringing, has shaped that,shaped your identity as an HSP.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (05:06):
Absolutely for you because absolutely
shaped that, shaped youridentity as an hsp absolutely.
I remember in grads I have tostart with kind of this term we
call location of self.
So I'm a licensed marriagefamily therapist and I learned
this term in grad school back in2017 at purdue, where they said
, okay, you have to locateyourself, knowing your
privileges, your what, all theidentities that are marginalized
or historically oppressed, ifyou will.
(05:26):
But I had the opposite effect.
Right April I actually had a lotof deep-rooted connection as a
Ghanaian American so my motheris from Ghana, so West Africa
region or Nigeria, and I grew upwith the food, the culture, the
language, all those kinds ofthings right that gave me a
(05:48):
sense of pride, gave me a senseof belonging that really
resonated with me and helped mefeel grounded.
However, I also grew up as aBlack child in the South, where
there's many folks from similarpopulations who we look every
skin full of ancient kinfolk, aswe say, who actually see as
okay.
I have a disconnect because ofthe historical oppression and
(06:11):
racism and all the things right,Not tied to my I don't know
that part of me, but becauseyou're different from me.
That's when there's always thatdisconnect, that feeling of
othering, if you will.
And then I grew up in small townKansas, so add that in when
Midwest is very much about beingmeek, mild, quiet.
April Snow (06:33):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (06:34):
Don't be too loud.
And that was always just a hardjourney, hard space.
Because, as a Gunnian Americanwho's very rooted in being
jovialvial, loud, very familyoriented, very education
oriented those are I can locatemyself going back to that term,
locate myself as a gunningAmerican, growing up in the
(06:54):
Midwest with Midwestern andSouthern roots that was also
deeply influenced by inferiorand superior racialized
inferiority going on.
April Snow (07:08):
Anyway, it feels like you're getting oh gosh,
these beautiful Ghanian roots,but then you're getting pulled
away from that who you reallyare, and I just think about it.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (07:18):
Where do I fit?
Where do you?
April Snow (07:19):
fit Exactly and that could have been really
beautiful if you could live inthat as an HSP, getting to feel
your big joy.
I don't know how emotions areviewed or sensitivity is viewed,
but I could just imagine youcould take up some space maybe
versus putting yourself in thislittle tiny box.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (07:34):
You bring up an interesting point,
april.
It was funny because it's notthat.
I was actually the quiet,sensitive, shy, reserved.
Oh, she has a voice but she'snot using it.
Always getting that in theclassroom.
April Snow (07:50):
Yep.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (07:51):
Where my culture is the opposite.
Again, loud, brazen, bold allthat kind of thing.
And I just wasn't able to honein on that.
Yeah, or dare I say, beingencouraged or supported.
April Snow (08:03):
I feel like you could have filled up that space.
What stops you?
Is it being in the environmentyou're in?
Is it family?
Is it teachers in the classroom?
What stops?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (08:13):
you.
April Snow (08:13):
Yeah, if you're open to sharing that.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (08:16):
Absolutely .
When I look back on myexperience, what always stopped
me was I was almost discouragedto.
I was encouraged to have avoice, but make sure it fits my
voice.
Make sure it fits doesn't,because I was blunt as well.
So, as an INFJ the onepercenters, everybody out there
(08:38):
I'll just you know, whatever itis.
I'm just like okay, I never had,I had the capacity to.
I had this deep internal world,really like getting lost in
there, loving kind of thenarratives and all that kind of
stuff, but my emotions and mybrain sometimes would just feel
like a scramble, and so whenteachers would see me zoning out
, yep I was a good kid because Iwasn't talking.
(09:02):
Yep yeah, people pleasing allthat kind of stuff, my
trauma-responsive fawning.
Because guess what?
There were some abandonmentwounds, some rejection wounds
that I experienced early on inmy childhood that even just
having a deep-rooted identitywith being Gunnian wasn't enough
to feel seen, if that makessense.
April Snow (09:28):
Makes total sense.
The sensitive quiet ones getlabeled the good kid, when, yes,
we're quiet on the outside butthere's a storm happening inside
and you need space for that andto be able to take those
emotions somewhere for someoneto check in what's happening in
there, what's going on underthat quiet facade and sometimes
quiet.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (09:45):
We're naturally quiet, but sometimes
we're quiet because we're shutdown true, I don't know the
difference sometimes, yeah yeah,it all looks the same yeah, and
when you have a parent who'snot as present with their own
emotions because they got asingle parent, you got to take
care of the kids.
A household yeah, I'moverwhelmed, but then I'm also
like my kid is fine, I live withmy sister.
(10:08):
They're playing in the roomquietly.
But I'm also like I need to beoutside of nature.
April Snow (10:13):
You were needing things to feed your kind of
sensitive soul.
Your INFJ personality.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (10:19):
And it was just.
It was like few and farinconsistent.
April Snow (10:21):
You're not getting that nourishment.
Yeah, yeah, it's tough.
I didn't have the sameexperience at all, but I can
resonate a lot with the quietlysuffering or being the good one
in the chaos and okay, we don'tneed to worry about you, but
there's things that you needright To just satisfy that depth
and that connection and likethe strong emotionality.
(10:42):
You also said that you'reblunts naturally, which I always
get excited about.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (10:47):
Yes, hsps can be blunts, we can be
outspoken yes, that was always aI say it with justin funny now,
but growing up I heard that somuch like angela, she's great,
she's nice, she's fun and shecan be really blunt.
Yeah, but you say it in thatsometimes you just kind of ah.
(11:08):
So I would wear my emotions onmy sleeve.
And again, my thought processwas disjointed because, think
about it, I grew up, also grewup.
I didn't tell you this, but Ihad German roots as well.
So through transracial adoption, grandma, whatever, yeah, she
was spoke different languages.
So I had two people in myhousehold who didn't, whose
first language was in english.
So the thought pattern, theconnection, there's, yep, some
(11:32):
disjointedness there so then mythought process was hard
sometimes to say what am Ifeeling versus what am I
thinking, and I just would sayit yeah, you're trying to
process it out loud.
April Snow (11:43):
Perhaps I was a what they say external processor.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (11:44):
Yes.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just trying to process it outloud, perhaps I was a.
It was an external processor.
April Snow (11:46):
Yes, yeah, that makes sense, just trying to put
all the pieces together.
But then I've heard this from alot of hsps, especially hsps
who come from cultures that aremore outspoken, maybe more
extroverted, where they feellike, oh, I can't be my
sensitive self and be this,maybe blunt, outspoken or
external processor, like thosepieces maybe don't fit, even
though they could fit it's justit's every difference should be
(12:11):
embraced.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (12:11):
What you should acknowledge like
there's there's nothing aboutthe sense of healthy
confrontation.
That's something that I that'sa term I learned when I was
taking the clinical exam, I wantto say last year, and it was
very interesting.
I was like healthyconfrontation, what is that?
That's what I thought I wasdoing with other people when
they would get in my space orI'm overloaded or whatever, and
then I'm like I want to sharewith you, but then I didn't have
(12:34):
any boundaries set up uh youknow what I mean.
People get away with talkingcrazy and then I reach my limit
and it goes out.
What's different with?
April Snow (12:42):
bound.
If you have a boundary set up,how does that become different
for you?
Just for folks who may not befamiliar with that yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (12:50):
So how I look at it is like boundaries.
It's like your house, right,and there's a fence around your
house and you have threedifferent types of fences.
Either you have a wooden fence,where people can see, overlook,
but they know not to get near,but there's a gate.
The second one there's a gateopen, but there's a gate.
The second one is a gate open,but there's no lock.
Anyone can come in anytime.
It's there Like a porousboundary.
(13:10):
If you will, you allow theboundary to happen.
You don't.
You set the boundary, but youstill let it happen.
And then, the last one is just afortress, this large, big thing
that covers the whole house.
No one can get in, and so, fora long time, how I would define
boundaries is just knowing thatthis is me loving you and loving
me at the same time.
Yes, this is letting you know.
This is where I draw the linehere, this is where I recognize
(13:31):
that I can't be in the spaceLike what you're saying, what
you're doing to me, is affecting, kind of our connection, and so
this is me lovingly confrontingyou, yes, and letting you know
that this is the fence, this isprotected property.
And to ensure our friendship,co-worker relationship, romantic
(13:52):
relationship, whatever.
It's important to establishthat, and sometimes you have to
shift those boundaries.
April Snow (13:58):
Yeah, they can be.
They can change Right Person toperson moment to moment.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (14:04):
But they have to be established and
it's not the job of the person.
Toxic people typically willfeel entitled to ignore it.
Dr Adam Grant said that he's agreat IO psychologist.
Toxic people typically feelentitled to ignore your
boundaries, where healthy peopleknow that they need to maintain
the boundaries, and I just thatresonated with me as a HSP.
Yeah, and recognizing the spacethat I want to provide for
(14:26):
others.
April Snow (14:27):
Boundaries are just part of relationships.
I think some people interpretthem as distance or a problem,
but it's really just keeping therelationship healthy balanced
Right.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (14:39):
Balanced yes.
April Snow (14:41):
Exactly, and we need to be able to confront people.
I think HSP struggle with thata lot.
We're afraid of confrontationof conflict.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (14:47):
Yeah, I was guilty of that.
Yeah, Same.
April Snow (14:50):
But I've seen just how it actually strengthens a
relationship, right, because ifyou're not fighting, ooh, things
are festering.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (15:01):
Yes, that's right yeah, yes.
Yeah, so you've had quite thehealing journey yourself.
April Snow (15:09):
it sounds like really reflecting on your early
years as a sensitive child andadolescent, and then bringing
that into focus of what, whatwas going on and how, the
cultural elements in whichgreatly influence our experience
of sensitivity.
So I'm wondering how does thatinfluence you now?
Angelique Foye-Fletc (15:25):
supporting others, yes, yeah so currently
in my life, right now, I am justhave the privilege and honor to
be a mother of two beautifulchildren, and I'm a wife of a
wonderful civil servant so I'lljust keep it at that.
He works for the city and weboth have high stress jobs in a
(15:46):
sense of, and also where we'reat in our family life cycle of
parenting two young kids underfour.
April Snow (15:52):
Oh yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (15:53):
And I'm married to an introvert.
He's an.
I'm an introvert.
Yeah, I have put a lot.
How I show up for others ismaking sure that I pour into
myself at home.
This is me.
I think about it as, and it'sbeen off and on.
Sometimes it's like Ioverextend myself, over-function
, as it happens, becausesometimes the body just does,
(16:14):
the body does the thing, andsometimes it slows down.
I had to learn the hard lesson,right.
But how I show up for others isbeing able to pour a water can
into myself like a plant, rightAt home, right.
Others is being able to pour awater can into myself like a
plant right at home, right.
I myself am an indoor plant.
I need sunlight, right.
I need to be outside, I need tohave oxygen, so breathing right
, being present, being mindfuland creating a structure and
(16:37):
environment, a home where it'sjust safe to be.
Yeah, like when you're growingup with two different homes
Louisiana here, kansas there.
This home is parented this way,this home is parented this way.
You just you don't ever reallyhave a standard grounded.
It's like growing up in adivorced family, like there's
(16:58):
just different rules applydifferently and you don't know
what to expect.
So I work with a lot of clientslike that.
Who?
April Snow (17:04):
are trying, who have been disjointed, or trying to
navigate two different worlds atthe same time?
Yeah, it's a very toughtransition for an HSP.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (17:14):
And yeah, you're right.
And so as far as, like being amother before I became a mom, I
recognized I have to heal.
First start that healingjourney.
So then it's not harder forthem to feel like they have to
recover from childhood, Becausechildhood can be difficult, no
matter what the best intentions.
(17:36):
Sometimes you just will makemistakes.
But if you can be open tobuilding upon knowing that maybe
there is some work that I needto do, the reparenting piece-
yeah, setting up structure formyself?
Absolutely yeah, so then I canshow up for my clients and not
be burnt out and take it out onthem, take it out on my family
(17:57):
at home.
This is not fair, it's notright, it's not fair.
April Snow (18:00):
Your childhood is inherently stressful.
It's a lot of developmentthat's happening and inner
exploration, but you can createa stronger foundation for your
kids than what you had ofgrounded steadiness, yeah, and
so does this.
I think this stems into yourwork with cycle breakers, would
(18:21):
you say, and could you tellfolks a little bit about what
that is?
I think we've already alludedto it, but if we could define it
for folks who maybe haven'theard that term before,
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (18:32):
When we think about the term cycle
breaker, it's being able torecognize that when I just had
brunch with a friend of mine, agirlfriend of mine, who said
it's not generational cursesyou're trying to break, it's in
generational trauma right.
The trauma wounds.
It's you saying, it's someonesaying just because this
happened to this person doesn'tmean that it gets.
(18:53):
Stops here, okay and full stop.
And that means also literallylike undoing the work, firing
the brain, reestablishing asense of clarity and
connectedness to self,unapologetically.
April Snow (19:17):
Love that.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (19:19):
Yeah.
April Snow (19:20):
I just think about this kind of just putting up a
dam right and redirecting theriver, like we can go in a
different direction from here.
We don't have to continue theseintergenerational patterns that
we inherited, because that'swhat it is, it's patterns.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (19:38):
It's patterns, dare I say almost,
because there wasn't likeconsistent patterns.
It's like I have to fill in thegap and recognize.
Okay, if you grew up in a homewhere it was chaotic and
confusing and unpredictableright so somewhere along the way
you had to learn to be aware ofwhen daddy's mood is off or be
understanding of some tensionthere.
(19:59):
But now you're a grown person inyour own house and you still
feel keyed up and on edge.
Maybe you didn't put picturesin the house because you don't
feel like it's feel aconnectedness to it.
But you can cycle.
Breaking is not just thisradical.
Do all the MDR sessions.
It helps.
I'm not going to lie.
It will accelerate.
Yeah, it's not.
It's not everything.
It's not everything, yeah.
April Snow (20:21):
And you frame a good point.
If you grew up feeling on edge,scared, have to be
hypervigilant to whatever'shappening and read the room at
all times, yeah, that doesn'tjust fade away as soon as you
move into your own space, you'recarrying those ghosts with you.
And gosh, even just the pieceabout hanging up the pictures I
remember reading this.
(20:41):
There's a book about thenervous system.
It was like people that grew upin those conditions we just
don't know how to live.
That resonated with me a lot.
Yeah, not doing simple thingslike settling into a space
hanging up a photo, because whatif you have to leave sooner?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (20:54):
Yep.
April Snow (20:54):
You're on edge, but that can change, doing the work
and, yeah, giving yourselfpermission to, or maybe
acknowledging that you're safein your own home, acknowledging,
but you have to understand,define safety and security.
Different for everybody, and Ihad to do that.
Yeah, yeah, do you want to saymore about how you did that?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (21:22):
Taylor Thomas and this amazing comedian
female comedian like in her midtwenties, I've been sure people
know from the audience.
She talked about how thetwenties are you're expected to
fuck up.
April Snow (21:32):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (21:32):
Like people expect you to mess up,
fuck up and so that resonatedwith me in the saying okay, so I
had permission, like lookingback in my twenties, looking
like doing all the thingspermission like looking back in
my twenties looking like doingall the things, like going out
to clubs when I don't know it,that's not my style.
I was a very sensory overloadliving with roommates when I
don't like living with people Idon't really genuinely care
about.
You know what I'm saying.
That's to blunt me saying Ijust don't.
(21:53):
I have this allergic reactionto being in an environment where
it's too loud, too smelly, toomany people, and yet I just kept
going yeah, what you's supposedto do, you're supposed to do.
The fear of FOMO was real andat the same time it was learning
.
It was input, learning input.
But again, your frontal lobeain't lobing.
Yep, not yet.
(22:14):
So it was like, yes, I wishsomeone would have told me like
I expect you to make mistakesand fuck up and learn along the
way, but then don't make too bigof a mistake.
April Snow (22:26):
Yep.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (22:27):
Because redirect the path.
It's this way.
April Snow (22:30):
You don't have the privilege to mess up so much.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (22:33):
Exactly so.
It's just always all gas notank.
All gas, no brakes.
I should say I'm in my 20s andI just recognize like I have to
just slow down, be intentional,and that looks like defining
what security, stability lookslike redefining it for myself,
and some folks who might belistening might be saying what
(22:55):
does she mean by that?
I get that Because you're likego chat to BT and you're like
security is this you're like gochat to bt and you're like
security, is this right, youcould?
April Snow (23:07):
there's a standard definition, but yeah, it's
different.
How would you be able to sharemaybe one example of what
security means for?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (23:12):
you.
I think it's an idea.
I would say an example of thatfor myself.
How it presents is like beingable to say I'm okay.
April Snow (23:27):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (23:29):
I'm safe, I'm loved, I'm okay.
April Snow (23:33):
Yeah, wow, and that's true.
Maybe it wasn't before.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (23:41):
Buddhist principle would say yes no,
maybe we don't know.
We don't know why things happenthe way they do.
Yes, maybe there's a reason,maybe, and there's this really
great Japanese author I'm don'tgot the name, but he wrote a lot
on the male loneliness pandemicback in way back in the
epidemic, I should say back inthe late 80s and he talked about
.
He said pain is inevitable,suffering is optional.
April Snow (24:05):
Oh, did not hon.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (24:06):
Yeah, yes, and that resonated with me
so much, because cycle breakingis saying the life is of pain
and it's inevitable.
Right the suffering, theinternal struggles, the not
recognizing that you need arelease and to let go of guilt
and understand that whathappened as a kid was not OK.
April Snow (24:29):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (24:29):
Or that maybe the adults in your life
didn't have what they needed tomake sure that you're OK, safe,
secure.
But you get to do that.
Work now, not too late.
To do that work now, not toolate, not too late.
And it just starts by justhaving the courage to still live
a life worth living.
April Snow (24:49):
Yeah, that's hopeful , like, even if it was hard
before, it was hard yesterday,you still have time to find that
safety, to say to yourself I'mokay, I'm safe here.
Even if I wasn't safe then,yeah, oh yeah, that's powerful.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (25:12):
It's just as simple as saying because
when you ask me like security,because I'm still on that
journey of okay, I know that ifI can say there's a little part,
there's a little, there'slittle, me saying am I okay?
And big me saying you are, I'mhere.
The four therapeutic powers ofplay says I am here, I see you,
I feel you, I see you.
(25:33):
So those are the things I seeyou, I hear you, I feel you, I
am here.
That's what play is about Toyourself.
April Snow (25:40):
I guess as an adult you could say it to yourself,
but as a play therapist, are yousaying it to the kiddos?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (25:44):
you're working with.
Yeah, beautiful, yes.
April Snow (25:48):
I love that, so I'm here.
I see you.
Yeah, I'm safe.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (25:52):
I am here.
April Snow (25:53):
I am here.
Yeah, it's so simple but sopowerful and, like you said,
it's a starting to rewire thosemessages right, Reframe the
messages, rewire your braintowards safety.
So in your work as a playtherapist and as a parent, I'm
curious what practices do youbring in for the adults in those
(26:14):
scenarios?
You use a lot of mindfulness,grounding practices.
You mentioned finding that safe, grounded space at home.
What does that look like?
What?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (26:23):
are some of those practices.
Oh yeah, as far as with myclients, yeah, or yourself or
myself.
April Snow (26:30):
yeah, for the sensitive cycle breakers out
there who are wondering what arethe practices that I'm talking
to myself differently but arethere other things that I'm
bringing in?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (26:39):
Oh, beautiful question.
It's practical.
But I'll go to my earlier thingof treat yourself like an
indoor plant.
April Snow (26:48):
I love this metaphor or outdoor plant.
What do they need?
They?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (26:51):
need lots of sunlight, so you need
vitamin D Drink water.
This is basic, but it's justthose things, right.
April Snow (26:59):
Yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (27:00):
Grounded .
Go outside.
That's what I like to do.
I like to walk outside and feelmy feet on the earth yep to feel
a sense of connected to myancestors, right, oil that they
were on and being, gave methanks and everything like that,
as well as just walking.
So movement is medicine, natureis medicine.
And then being able to eat anourishing meal, right, that
(27:23):
looks like being more mindful oflike anti-inflammatory diet,
eating all the stuff that'scolorful on my plate.
That's healthy.
Yeah, yeah, just.
And I think, listening in,tuning in, tuning in to what I
need, what is it that I needright now?
For example, me having thisconversation with you is very
nourishing for me because it'smy way of I'm able to connect to
(27:47):
someone without having to overexplain or just being.
I set the space up for this,yeah, because it was an
intention, it was an act.
I wanted to make sure this is.
These two things behind me areactually, you can see, here.
Yeah, I don't know if they'llbe able to see, but they're my
(28:07):
what do you call it?
From the Akan tribe.
That's from where I'm from, andmy mother got this from when
she visited Ghana 30 years ago,and they are kente cloth, so her
grandmother wore this, and sothis is what's behind me to keep
me rooted and grounded.
And then, in the middle, is myfamily, an multicultural family
me being married to an expat, mymom, my gunny, my British
(28:29):
family, all the things you know.
April Snow (28:31):
That's so beautiful.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (28:35):
These are your roots there in physical
form.
April Snow (28:43):
So important to have those symbols, those connection
points.
And I appreciate what you'resaying about these pieces that
are medicine, because I think ifyou grew up in more of a
chaotic or traumatic environment, I know from my own experience
those simple things were hard orthey didn't get to take space
Hard to come by.
So even just saying, what do Ineed now is a revelation,
because that was a luxurygrowing up it was.
(29:03):
So what do I need now is arevelation, because that was a
luxury growing up it was.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (29:05):
So what do I need now?
What do I not deserve?
What do I have to earn?
My body is giving me signalsand telling me that it's as
simple as me lighting an incense.
I remember in grad school Ijust started getting on the term
of like self-care, because it'sall the things stress and if
(29:25):
you already come from astressful environment, you're
like, okay, I'm just throwinginto it.
But I was like, okay, Iactually need to shift the gears
here and understand what doesthat mean?
April Snow (29:33):
right.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (29:34):
So I was making smoothies every day
or being able to.
Someone told me once, like myroommate, she said like I
treated my room like a temple,which is like interesting.
Because I was like what do youmean by that?
Because I would have, I wouldlight my incense grounding
practice.
Look at the smoke, let itdissipate you know what I mean.
Read a book.
(29:54):
Low lights, light a candle,love lighting candles, the
Himalayan salt candles, theHimalayan salt, just even just
my eyes able to see.
Okay, this is soft and it'shelping me re-engage into my
senses and having my water onthe side.
April Snow (30:09):
Yeah, I love this.
Just the intentionality, takingcare of your senses, your
nervous system.
But, deeper than that, havingthe rituals.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (30:17):
I love that.
Stability is routines ritualsyes.
April Snow (30:21):
Routines and rituals R yes routines and rituals.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (30:23):
Routines and rituals, rituals is not
something that's like evil orwhatever some stuff right.
It's just this consistentroutine that allows me to pour
into myself, that regulates mynervous system that's it.
April Snow (30:36):
I think people get scared away by that term ritual,
but it is just these, it'straditions, it's practices,
right, it's the things that youdo regularly for yourself, or
bringing that intentionality,bringing some sacred energy,
something we need that as humans, and especially sensitive
humans, something beyondourselves sensitive souls yeah,
(30:56):
exactly, we need something topour into those souls.
Yeah, this feels like maybe ithad that in you all along.
It's just tapping into it more.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (31:09):
Yeah, it was always in me.
I just just be honest.
I just never really tapped intoit because of just something
else.
Someone else needed somethingfor me.
Their needs was more importantthan mine.
Or this is how I can get love,or this is how I can get love,
or this is how I can securesomething.
But I recognize like I can't.
I keep pouring from an emptycup?
(31:31):
Yeah, I think.
April Snow (31:32):
Yeah, you get to that point where you just
realize I can't do that anymore.
I'm at the bottom.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (31:37):
And let's call it what it is.
As a black woman in America.
You know what I mean.
April Snow (31:40):
You're beyond empty Generations of emptiness, yeah.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (31:44):
And so living my soft girl life,
romanticizing my life.
Those are things that mysisters and I have been talking
about lately, because I do MarcoPolo every day with my best
friend she was out in DC andthat in itself is routine,
structured ritual that reallyhelps me feel grounded and
connected, being able to talkverbally, process out loud, and
(32:05):
just knowing that driving,driving helps me just regulate
as well, but knowing that I amthe work, because we are the
work right.
I do this work because I amcontributing to this community
by helping little ones have avoice, have a space, feel
(32:28):
connected, helping parents asthey're parenting, helping
adults who haven't even heardthe term rest and rejuvenation,
relaxed, right, or knowing thatthey're at burnout, they're at
the danger of just crashing outyeah and they're like I need a
space to.
I love when clients come and sayI just need a space to deeply
(32:49):
reflect what's going on, just aspace to be there, yes to be
held.
My feelings can be held softlyand can be seen with gentle and
tenderness that we all deserveyeah, and creating that safe
space somewhere.
April Snow (33:05):
That could be the first safe space, the therapy
room, potentially.
And I just want to go back tosomething you said which is
really important, which is youdon't have to earn those spaces,
you don't have to earn thatself-care and, yeah, you can
here.
So you're cycle breaking foryourself, for your family, with
(33:26):
your kids.
You're helping others cyclebreak, learn to reparent
themselves, parent their ownchildren differently than they
were parented.
Angelique Foye-Fletche (33:33):
Noticing and understanding and leaning
with curiosity about it.
Not with judgment, just withcuriosity.
April Snow (33:39):
What's important about being curious, not
judgmental.
Angelique Foye-Fletch (33:44):
Curiosity offers a sense of freedom and
liberation and the sense of andwe're all born with it.
Kids are naturally childlike,curious.
I love when kids ask why, why?
Why?
Because that's a kid who'sseeking and understanding their
world and trying to get input.
And when you look at it from ajudgment place like why me, why
this it's you undo, you'reputting an unhealthy amount of
(34:05):
guilt.
You're putting this unrealisticexpectation on yourself to have
understood everything thathappened to you.
Now, it's not why that happened, what happened right as Dr
Bruce Perry talked about withOprah and stuff.
But curiosity is, that's beensomething that's been a strength
of mine, like I've dare I say,a value value.
April Snow (34:29):
Yeah, makes sense right something that you hold in
esteem.
And yeah, instead ofcriticizing, we can be curious
what do I need?
What happened to me?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (34:40):
it's softer, it, it's softer.
It's again the reparenting, thebicycle, breaking processes,
being able to tell, talk to yourinner child and say I know
you're scared, I know you're notunderstanding why your body,
your brain, is sending signalsto your body to say these things
all the time.
And now I am the adult to sayit's okay and I get it.
(35:06):
And you're right to feel scaredand you're right to be
questioning why is thishappening?
What's going on?
And you didn't deserve it andyou don't deserve it.
But let's softly walk away,play with the toy, connect with
me and be seen yeah, it's sopowerful, you're happy.
(35:30):
You say that to me every dayhonestly, for my mission in life
is to like look to help othersfeel seen, loved and supported.
If I had to just be real bluntwith you and be like okay, the
niche and stuff.
It's like I help people break,like no, I want people to feel
loved, seen, supported.
If this is their first time notfeeling it, I want to be able
to give them, offer a spacethat's warm, inviting, curious,
(35:57):
kind, so then it can allow yourbody and your brain to say, okay
, perhaps I could lean intobeing softer to myself, perhaps
I didn't deserve what happened,even though the narrative is
saying these things, and maybe Icould also rewrite the story.
(36:21):
Maybe look at the generationalgifts I got versus the
generational trauma.
It's a both.
Yeah, I came from a highlystructured, matriarchal,
beautiful home, no matter what,no matter what was going on.
I came from a matriarchal,highly independent, amazing
(36:45):
women who poured love into usthe best way they can, with what
they had and still showed upFull stop.
April Snow (36:55):
Still showed up.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (37:00):
And I'm doing that for my kids and it's
going to look different andthey may say there was things I
wish you could have donedifferent and I have to be open
to that.
I'm open and curious to that.
I don't have to like it, Right?
April Snow (37:13):
But I know it's going to happen If they're going
to be in somebody's therapist'soffice.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (37:17):
I'm like at least they can say was I
had a too good childhood right,slip the other way my mom was
too understanding.
April Snow (37:25):
Sometimes I wish, but anyway I can talk, I can
ramble oh no, this is beautiful,but even in all in the chain,
it seems like you're holdingthose roots, those values, in
place in a different package ina different package which is
really beautiful, and just areminder that it's not all bad.
We can look at the nuance,which I know is hard, can take a
(37:48):
long time to do that it doesyeah but there's maybe some
nuggets in there that you wantto keep.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (37:54):
But yeah, change the narrative,
change the packaging, yeah angera long time clouded my anger,
resentment, frustration and justinjustices, because when you're
hsp, you have a highlysensitive, high sensitivity to
any injustice all injustices,injustices, and when, for a long
time, if you've been that vocal, outspoken child who's also
(38:18):
highly sensitive, always put thekibosh on At some point, you
just I can't believe I'm sayingthis.
But the biggest thing, I reallymy biggest takeaway was like I
don't like everybody.
Everybody don't got to like me.
Why am I people pleasing forpeople who's got people all over
(38:39):
you?
Okay, like maybe I should startdoing the opposite, like I was
just tired of like peoplepleasing, fawning, not making
sure I'm into my words or bluntand have to say sorry and feel
bad all the time I just saidokay, let me just try the other
thing of what if I just I likeme and that's enough.
April Snow (38:56):
I like who I am as I am that's it, because if you
like yourself, everything elseis going to be okay it's going
to be okay.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:03):
But for a long time I didn't think I
could.
Or yeah, or there's somethingto fix before I can like myself
and I'm like no, I am fine theway I am.
I'm a good friend, wife,everything like that.
Mother.
I try my best, I'm willing to.
There's a difference?
I'm willing to.
There's a difference.
I'm willing to accept faultwhen fault is there.
April Snow (39:20):
That's important.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:22):
And then also know that if I'm
asking questions like am I agood parent, Just the fact that
I'm asking that is already.
April Snow (39:30):
That's it.
If you're asking thosequestions, you already know that
everything's going to be okay.
It's when you're not asking thequestions that you're in a deep
spot, when it's not even onyour radar.
Angelique, we have to start towrap up, but this has been such
a good conversation.
I feel like I've known you foryears.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:48):
Same same, really, yeah.
April Snow (39:50):
Truly I'm wondering if there's any final messages
you have for the listeners whoare sensitive cycle breakers
themselves.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (39:59):
Yes, have for the listeners who are
sensitive cycle breakersthemselves.
Yes, oh, we're worthy of thelove that you give to others.
So go ahead and take care ofyourself.
Know that you don't have to allfigure it out.
Be curious, love others, loveyourself and be kind to your
mind.
April Snow (40:15):
Thank you for that.
It's such a good reminder thatyou can send that empathy back
in and you can start today.
Thank you for that.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (40:26):
You're welcome.
April Snow (40:27):
For anyone who wants to work with you, which I
highly recommend.
I'll share all of yourresources in the show notes,
your website, your social media.
You often teach workshops, sofolks can find those there.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (40:39):
That's right.
April Snow (40:40):
I'm excited to do virtual workshops.
Thank you.
So anywhere in the world?
Yep, beautiful, love that, andso can you tell us a little bit
more about working with you, ifthey're interested in coming to
see you for?
Therapy or engaging with yourother offerings.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (40:54):
Absolutely so.
I offer individual therapy foradults.
I will do play therapy forkiddos from three to 11, as well
as starting to see teens.
April Snow (41:04):
Wonderful.
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (41:05):
Yep, and the best way you can get to
me.
Obviously, if you live inKansas and Missouri because I'm
licensed there, that'd be great.
But I also offer virtualcoaching workshops or coaching
sessions for those who live outof state to talk about
caregiving.
If you're caregiving for anolder adult or a child and you
just want a space to talk andconnect, you can do virtual that
(41:25):
way, and then I'm located inthe Midtown Westport area in
Kansas City and open forpractice.
Please feel free to visit thewebsite.
I also do speaking engagements,happy to talk to your school,
your retreat, your corporateretreats, to talk about
creativity and play therapy.
April Snow (41:42):
I love it.
So many beautiful offeringsfolks can tap into because, yeah
, if you're caregiving, ifyou're trying to navigate some
of these pieces, it's helpful tohave a space with someone who
gets it.
Angelique Foye-Fletc (41:53):
Absolutely .
You're not alone, you're notalone, even if it feels alone,
it's absolutely, you're notalone.
April Snow (42:00):
You know, even if it feels alone, it's very
isolative being a caregiver?
Angelique Foye-Fletcher (42:02):
it is absolutely.
It can be, so just have a spaceto dedicated to talk about all
the things yeah, and you cancreate a safe space for them
that's right yeah, I love it.
April Snow (42:09):
thank you so much.
Thanks so much for joining meand Angelique for today's
conversation.
What I hope you remember isthat, even if you didn't grow up
being encouraged to embraceyour sensitivity or to
prioritize your needs, you canstart now.
It's never too late If you needspace and support to reset.
(42:33):
Join Angelique for one of herRest and Rejuvenate virtual
sessions or work with herone-to-one.
All details are on her websiteat foyerfletchertherapycom.
Foyer, spelled F-O-Y-E.
All links are in the show notes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(42:54):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated For
behind-the-scenes content andmore HSB resources.
You can sign up for my emaillist or follow Sensitive
Strengths on Instagram, tiktokand YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestoriescom for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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