October 21, 2025 • 35 mins
Are you parenting a highly sensitive child or healing your inner HSC? In this episode, I talk with Dr. Judith Orloff about the struggles and gifts of being a highly sensitive child and:
• Ways to interrupt overwhelm and tend to you or your child’s sensitive nervous system
• Ending the shame cycle for highly sensitive children
• Supporting your highly sensitive child’s interests and needs
• Nurturing your younger self who didn’t know why they were different
Judith Orloff, MD is a New York Times bestselling author, a psychiatrist, and an empath. She is the author of the upcoming children’s book The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, which is about a caring cottontail who was shamed for her sensitivities but then learns to embrace them. Dr. Orloff's other books include The Genius of Empathy, The Empath’s Survival Guide, and Thriving as an Empath. Dr. Orloff also specializes in treating highly sensitive people in her medical practice. Dr. Orloff’s work has been featured on The Today Show, CNN, Oprah Magazine, the New York Times, and USA Today. Dr. Orloff has spoken at Google-LA and TEDx. Explore more at www.drjudithorloff.com.
Keep in touch with Judith:
• Website: https://drjudithorloff.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/judith.orloff.md
• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/judithorloffmd
Resources Mentioned:
• The Highly Sensitive Rabbit: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781649632876
• Empath Support Newsletter: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sl/G0dAyeY
• Merlin Birdwatching App: https://merlin.allaboutbirds.org
Thanks for listening! You can read the full show notes and sign up for my email list to get new episode announcements and other resources at:
https://www.sensitivestories.com
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Judith Orloff (00:00):
I bring my inner child everywhere.
It's very important to me tohave her with me.
She knows she's safe, andthat's a great thing.
It's a simple, beautiful bookthat can make your heart happy
and help you awaken the innerchild within even more and let
the inner child know that you'respending time with her.
April Snow (00:29):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author April Stowe.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:51):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withDr.
Judith Orloff about thestruggles and gifts of being a
highly sensitive child,nurturing your younger self who
didn't know why they weredifferent, and bolstering your
own children who may be HSPs.
Judith is a New York Timesbestselling author,
psychiatrist, and empath.
She wrote the children's book,The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, as
(01:13):
well as The Genius of Empathy,The Empath Survival Guide, and
Thriving as an Empath.
Dr.
Orloff also specializes intreating highly sensitive people
in her medical practice, andher work has been featured on
The Today Show, CNN, OprahMagazine, The New York Times,
and USA Today.
She's also spoken at Google andTEDx.
(01:34):
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, TikTok, or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths, or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestories.com.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
(01:57):
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in the Judith.
(02:19):
Thank you.
I'm very excited to be here.
Yes.
Can you start off us by tellingus your HSP discovery story?
Do you remember how or when yourealized that you're highly
sensitive and an empath?
Dr. Judith Orloff (02:34):
I didn't have the verbiage to describe it as
a little girl.
So I didn't know what it was.
And my parents, who were bothdoctors, said to me, You're
overly sensitive, you don't havea thick enough skin.
Why don't you toughen up?
You're never going to survivein the world.
You don't belong to this world,you know, just all these
zingers that so many of usheard, children.
(02:57):
And so I took it personally, ofcourse.
And I believed there wassomething wrong with me.
So I held that inside ofmyself, you know, for a long
time.
Because I, you don't know.
As children, your perceptionsare different.
You know, you don't think aboutwell, how I mean, how could I
change that?
Let's say I could change it,but you don't want to change it.
(03:20):
But that's what I was thinking.
So it's very confusing if youdon't get the proper guidance.
As a child, that's why I wrotethe highly sensitive rabbit to
give children the properguidance so they don't have to
struggle like so many of us did,is trying to make sense of this
beautiful trait.
Yes, exactly.
I couldn't make sense of it.
(03:40):
So a lot of confusion for megrowing up, a lot of loneliness.
I was an only child, so Ididn't have any brothers or
sisters.
But that might have made iteven worse because you know, in
the story, the Aurora, who's ourheroine, who's a cottontail
heroine, a rabbit, and in otherwords, she was bullied by her
(04:01):
brothers.
You know, she was called acrybaby and they didn't want to
play with her, and she was offon her own and she didn't feel
like she belonged.
So sometimes having siblingshurts, you know, makes her
worse.
Sometimes it helps if you havea nice one.
April Snow (04:16):
That's true, exactly.
But it you're right, it can bea lot to manage as a young
person when you don't have thelanguage, you don't understand
why you're showing updifferently in the world and why
your parents are trying to getyou to toughen up, especially if
you're not seeing other peoplelike you in the world.
And maybe you are, you justdon't realize it, but not with
the same language.
And so, yeah, we need thesebooks so children can grow up
(04:39):
realizing, oh, this is me, andit's okay.
I'm okay just as I am, andthere's actually good things
about being highly sensitivebecause we often internalize the
negatives.
Dr. Judith Orloff (04:50):
Absolutely.
And the one thing about thisbook that helps convey that
point are the illustrations byKatie Tannis, because they're
not only words saying you'reokay, you've always been okay.
It's the beautiful colors ofthe Sonoran Desert, which is
where this takes place, but itreflects to your soul and it
lets you see the colors of yoursoul, which is really what I
(05:14):
wanted to do is to communicatevisually with these kinds of
picture books that you get to dothat.
You get you know have thesevisuals and the colors and the
nature changes that go on canawaken you know your empath,
HSP, HSE self too.
April Snow (05:33):
Yes, I know the illustrations I was sharing with
you earlier that they're sovibrant and but in this soft,
sensitive, friendly way.
I really appreciate that youfound that balance because I
think little HSCs are gonnareally resonate with that,
right?
There's so much texture andinterest, but in a subtle way,
it's just it's a great balance.
Dr. Judith Orloff (05:55):
Yeah, so at my book signings, I've asked the
little children who come, theysit there a lot of they're very
quiet most of the months theycome, right?
But when I ask them, you know,what are they, it was their
impression, what do they like?
They say they like the colors.
The colors calm them.
April Snow (06:13):
Yes, colors.
Dr. Judith Orloff (06:15):
They respond to the colors, I think perhaps
more than the words, not sure.
It's hard, hard to know, butthat's what they remark on.
April Snow (06:24):
Yes, I can see that because it does draw you in, and
there's a lot of nuance andtexture there, which I think is
interesting for a highlysensitive child.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I'm wondering for listenersthat are out there and thinking
one of my children might behighly sensitive.
What are some signs that wouldpoint them in that direction
(06:46):
that they would know I have ahighly sensitive child?
Dr. Judith Orloff (06:49):
Well, highly sensitive kids are often very
reactive to outer stimuli,noise, smells, sounds, excessive
talking, crowds, video games,screaming, traffic noise,
scratchy labels.
April Snow (07:09):
Yes.
Dr. Judith Orloff (07:10):
Anything on the body that's uncomfortable,
the body of a highly sensitivechild is very attuned to what
touches it.
And so it's important not tohave the scratchy labels.
And if they cry or complainabout that, just cut it up.
Yeah.
It's like a really easy fix fora problem.
They're not being entitled oranything like that.
Parents may misinterpret it.
(07:32):
They just literally don't likethe scratch.
So help them with that.
You know, help them withwhatever they you can.
They're not being entitled andyou they're being authentic.
April Snow (07:44):
That's so true.
You know, everything is a lotlouder when you're highly
sensitive, whether it's sensoryinformation like the tags or the
sounds or your emotions thatyou're feeling.
And it can be very confusingwhen you're a little child.
So I appreciate that you'resaying, because some people
might say, well, buildresilience, make them tough it
out.
You know, I think a lot of ushave had that experience.
(08:04):
But you're saying, no, it'sokay to help them feel more
comfortable.
Dr. Judith Orloff (08:08):
And it doesn't mean they're not tough.
They're gonna be tougher ifthey're not getting scratched
all the time by the label.
It's true.
April Snow (08:16):
It's so true.
Like if we can bear with someof that noise, then they're able
to pour that energy elsewhere.
I think that's such a goodreason.
Dr. Judith Orloff (08:26):
Well, what would what would be toughening
up with the label?
It would be bearing the label.
So you're irritated all daylong.
Exactly.
And that's true for adults too.
You know, just be kind toyourself.
You don't like scratchy labels,so be it.
No, fix the things that can befixed without much problem,
without doing some kind of anegative thought, you know,
(08:50):
coming in and saying, Oh, you'retoo sensitive.
You should be able to standthis label, or you should be
able to stand this loud music.
Why not?
Look at all the other kids andyou compare yourself to the
other kids.
So highly sensitive kids haveparticular sensitivities.
What they love is not going toa baseball game at a stadium
(09:12):
with millions of people, butthey love taking a walk, maybe
in the forest or by a creek orbeing with animals and seeing a
little rabbit or a little animaljump by.
And they love that, they getlots of joy from it.
And so they love poetry andthey love colors and pictures
and staring into space.
(09:34):
You know, that's not a badthing.
Don't worry about them if theystare into space.
I always stare into space.
Yeah, me too.
Finally, the day's over, I canstare into space, you know.
So exactly.
April Snow (09:46):
I know it's that the moment your brain can do its
work.
Dr. Judith Orloff (09:48):
It's like, oh, I can catch up on just
downloading everything andsifting through it, and doing
nothing, and staring into spaceand not thinking about anything
but looking up at the beautifulstars in the sky, which is what
Aurora does, or this is Aurorato get a pick a sense of her
eyes so pretty and what shelooks like.
(10:10):
And this is an example of theillustrations, but she loves
looking at the moon.
Yes, that's something I alwaysloved to do as a child when I
didn't relate to people thatmuch.
I would look up at the moonevery night from my bed.
I'd get under my covers andlook out the window and see the
moon rise.
It's always made me feelconnected.
April Snow (10:31):
I know.
Those are some of my favoritenight parts, too, of just being
quiet in the night and eitherthe moon or the stars or hearing
the little sounds outside, thecrickets, whatever it was.
It's so peaceful.
And I appreciate that reminderto let sensitive kids be who
they are, let them daydream alittle bit, right?
Let them immerse in what theylove.
(10:53):
You don't have to force themmaybe to do all the things you
think they should be doing.
Dr. Judith Orloff (10:59):
Exactly.
And if they say, Oh, I went outto sit with my tree who's my
friend, just say great, asopposed to getting all alarmed
that they think they have afriend that's a tree.
They have friends that aretrees.
That's just what we do.
Exactly.
Maybe the mother or fathermight not understand that
because they've never had afriend that's a tree.
(11:20):
But if you read the highlysensitive rabbit, you'll see
that's very common.
And it's nothing to beconcerned about.
It's a form of creativity.
If you look at the naturalistpoets like Mary Oliver and, you
know, you hear David Whitereciting his poetry.
It's all about having friendsthat are trees.
You know, it's all aboutconnecting to nature in your own
(11:41):
way and looking up at the skyin your own way and seeing
reality in your own way, and nothaving somebody trying to tweak
it or make it more acceptable.
That's parents.
You don't want to do that.
You want to enjoy thecreativity of your child, the
intuitions of your child.
You might child might have anintuition about somebody, they
(12:03):
might really, really likesomebody right away, saying I
like that person.
They might not like anotherperson.
They might say, I'm not gonna,I don't, I don't like this
person.
And instead of saying, as myparents did, what do you mean
you don't even know this person?
That's what they always say.
Yeah, uh well, that's just whatyou know.
I don't feel comfortable, youknow, that you don't have the
(12:26):
words when you're that young.
This is young, and you don'thave the words, but it's just
no, you just get a and so ifthat's your child and you have a
highly sensitive child, atleast find out what they're
feeling like.
What is it about this person?
Oh, they're so sad, mommy.
They're so sad, you know, or orsomething, or they seem angry,
(12:48):
you know.
I whatever it is that they'refeeling, you go, that's
interesting.
I'll think about that.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yes, trust them.
Well, trust them, and also youdon't know, maybe they're not
accurate, you know, maybethey're having anxiety, but you
want to give them thecredibility of considering their
point of view.
April Snow (13:09):
Yes, exactly, because they may be picking up,
as you're saying, something thatyou don't see or feel because
of their perceptive nature.
Dr. Judith Orloff (13:19):
That's right.
And that's what I did as achild.
I had very strong intuitions,and there was one friend who I
picked up that he was gonna thathe was very depressed and
unhappy, although he was veryvibrant and smiley on the
outside, and then he ended uptrying to kill himself.
And so after that, my parentssaid never mention another one
(13:41):
of these intuitions again athome, so I wasn't allowed to
talk about it.
April Snow (13:46):
Wow.
So it was completely cut offfor you at home.
Yep.
And I think that's reallycommon for HSPs because the
parents don't understand whatwe're experiencing internally.
It can be really hard.
Did you find ways to expressthat elsewhere, or did you pull
back from it yourself as well?
Dr. Judith Orloff (14:07):
Oh gosh.
Well, my story is that I gotvery heavily involved in drugs
and to run from my abilities andshut them off.
I didn't want to have anythingto do with them.
I wanted to go with my friendsto parties and to shopping.
I had had it with all this.
And so I don't recommend thispath, of course.
But you know, I got the help Ineeded to see that in order for
(14:28):
me to be whole, I had tointegrate these abilities into
my life.
And that's realization that youcan't not do it if you're an
HSP.
Yeah, you must embrace it.
You can't fight it, you know,it'll cause a lot of problems.
April Snow (14:45):
Yeah, it does it's not because it's not going away,
right?
It's a trait we're born with.
So it will always be there.
And it sounds like you know,there were things your parents
maybe didn't understand orpushed away.
But I think it sounds like whyyou wrote this book, The Highly
Sensitive Rabbit, is to create adifferent experience for kids
that are highly sensitive,right?
Create a dialogue and anunderstanding because so many
(15:08):
kids are ashamed.
We hear that constantly.
You're too sensitive, you'retoo emotional, toughen up, get
over it.
But this book and can helpcreate a different conversation,
right?
Dr. Judith Orloff (15:19):
Right, right, more acceptance, and help the
parents understand the point ofview of the child and the child
to understand the point of viewof the parent.
But I just want to read you onepart of it.
Please.
In the end of the book, there'sall the pictures of the desert
animals and who they are,actually, which is a quite I
love that edition.
(15:39):
I love that too.
This is in the end of the book.
This isn't giving it away.
But the Aurora sat with hermother and watched the moon.
The world can be overwhelmingand hard things happen, her
mother said, but it's alsobeautiful.
Aurora nodded.
Being sensitive did often makeit harder being in the world,
(16:02):
but it helped her see its wildand glorious beauty too.
April Snow (16:06):
I love that so much.
Dr. Judith Orloff (16:08):
Oh, and there they are, mother and Aurora
looking at the moon.
Yes, together or she sometimeslikes being alone.
So one of the skills shelearned from her animal friends
is that she doesn't just becauseshe has a friend, doesn't mean
she has to sit with themwatching the moon all the time.
(16:29):
She could say, No, I'd ratherbe alone tonight.
Or yes, let's go.
So you have a choice, you don'thave to say yes to everybody.
April Snow (16:37):
I appreciated that modeling because I think a lot
of sensitive kids, and I'veheard this recently from folks
that you know they're alwaysencouraged to get outside, be
social, you know, constantly.
It's like, no, we need abalance.
And it's like, yeah, you wantto say yes sometimes, but
sometimes you need to say no andset that limit.
Right.
Right.
And it can be both.
Both are healthy and important.
Yeah.
Dr. Judith Orloff (16:58):
Exactly right.
And for the children to acceptthemselves is so important.
And one thing I always heard asan HSP, and this drove me
crazy, and as an adult, it'slike really a button for me,
where they say you'reexperiencing something.
Let's say you have a pain inyour ankle or something, and
they say, We have never heardanybody else express this
(17:19):
before.
You're the only one.
Right.
It's like just I know it's soagitating.
April Snow (17:26):
Right.
But I am experiencing it.
Dr. Judith Orloff (17:28):
Right, right.
But just as a warning to themoms and the kids and the dads,
they might say that I've neverheard anybody say that before.
April Snow (17:37):
Right.
My whole life.
Yes, I know.
And but it doesn't make it anyless valid.
Dr. Judith Orloff (17:43):
Just because you haven't heard from my
perspective, this is how it is.
And there's no negotiating it.
But for them to say, Well, I'venever heard anything like that
before.
So I'm very careful, I'm apsychiatrist, and you know, with
my patients.
And if I see younger patients,to not do that to them, to not
say, Well, I've never heard ofthat before.
(18:05):
If they say, I'm taking thismedication and I see purple, my
whole world is turning purple,and it doesn't say that
anywhere, I don't care.
Right.
I see fine, I understand.
Your world is purple.
Let's deal with it.
Yes, exactly.
Right.
You take it seriously, youdon't dismiss it.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter if no oneelse ever experienced it before.
(18:28):
That's the whole point.
Right.
April Snow (18:30):
How can you possibly capture every experience?
Dr. Judith Orloff (18:34):
Right.
It matters that you'reexperiencing it now.
Yes.
That's what matters.
April Snow (18:39):
Yes, exactly.
And that's something you cansay to your child.
Yes.
That matters.
Dr. Judith Orloff (18:44):
I hear you.
That's right.
I want to know what you'refeeling.
Yeah, right.
April Snow (18:49):
Be curious and open-minded about it.
Dr. Judith Orloff (18:52):
Yeah, but don't overdo it either.
I've seen some parents, yeah.
April Snow (18:56):
Oh, Charlie, don't I say the child doesn't want to
do anything?
That's true, too.
I've seen that too, wherethere's overemphasis on the
emotion to the point ofoverwhelm.
Dr. Judith Orloff (19:06):
Right, right.
April Snow (19:07):
Yes.
So maybe we could talk aboutthat.
You know, obviously, highlysensitive kids will get more
easily overwhelmed.
How can they start to work withthat?
I know you include some thingsin the book, but what are some
go-tos that you recommend toparents?
Dr. Judith Orloff (19:23):
Well, one thing that Aurora learned from
one of her bird friends was thatwhen she gets overwhelmed, she
takes a breath immediately.
She stops and takes a breath.
She doesn't work it up in hermind.
She this one is even good.
And two if she wants to.
But to get in the habit andprogram yourself to take a deep
(19:48):
breath and relax if you'refeeling overstimulated.
That helps to calm it down.
You know, and you can do thisanywhere as people don't really
notice what you're doing.
No, or go in the bathroom.
You know, I always go in thebathroom.
Same.
April Snow (20:04):
Yeah, it's the refuge.
Dr. Judith Orloff (20:07):
Yeah.
So don't feel bad about goingin the bathroom.
Just go in, close the door,take a breath.
You might want to put your handover your heart because that's
very calming and pat yourselflike this.
Mothers often do this.
You think you just pat over theheart and you begin to calm
yourself down.
So that's good.
And if you're at home andyou're starting to feel it, you
(20:31):
can go into your room or go intoa room that's quiet.
So you don't have continualtalking.
The excessive talking cantrigger the children.
If the talking it just getscrazy blurred together, you
know, just we we can't processthat many words at once.
(20:52):
It is too many.
And so just to know that, Ithink parents need to know that
and slow it down a little bit,you know, slow it down, be calm
and not trying to fit it inbetween all these other things.
That won't work.
I understand your impulse to dothat because you're so busy.
Work with the child, so you'vegot to weigh that.
April Snow (21:14):
Yes.
Yeah, it's so important to slowthings down.
I think a lot of times parentswant to process verbally, not
realizing that A, that'soverstimulating, and B, the
child more than likely willrespond more to a somatic or
physical intervention than averbal one.
Dr. Judith Orloff (21:32):
Right.
April Snow (21:33):
So even just interrupting the cycle of
overwhelm with that breath orchanging locations, it makes a
big difference.
Dr. Judith Orloff (21:40):
Yes, give them a stuffed animal, uh, close
the door if they want peace andquiet in a room and let them do
whatever they're gonna do withthe stuffed animal or the
pillows or look out the windowso they can find their center.
You just want to remove themfrom the excessive stimulation.
That's really important.
And if you're upset, if theparents are upset, or if you're
(22:04):
yelling or you're raising yourvoice or you're getting
impatient, this is the time foryou to take a time out, too.
Good reminder, right?
The parents also need a break.
They do.
Oh my God.
It's a full-time job.
April Snow (22:18):
Yes, exactly.
A lot of people say, Well, Idon't know how I'll fit this in.
Let's all do it together.
The whole family could take abreak.
Dr. Judith Orloff (22:26):
If you can get them together, yeah.
April Snow (22:28):
If you can do that, or going off into your having
your separate time alone.
But there sounds like you know,there needs to be maybe a
little bit of disruption orshift in the chaos.
Dr. Judith Orloff (22:39):
Yes, yes, and the child learning to make an
inner shift that's simple.
Yes, the hand on the heart, thebreath.
If you can go into the room,take some alone time and just
play whatever you want to do.
Look at a book, play, just sitthere.
Yes, talk to your imaginaryfriends, whatever makes you
(23:01):
happy, just go do it.
You know, follow your list.
April Snow (23:04):
Yeah, how life-changing to have those
tools and that permission earlyon.
That's not something I learnedprobably until my late 20s or
30s.
Right, yeah, yes.
So to instill that early on canreally be life-changing.
Dr. Judith Orloff (23:21):
Oh, yeah.
Like if the child's gettingworked up in the car and you
have to go somewhere, you couldjust look at the child and say,
honey, we have to go somewhere.
Let's just take a minute, takea breath together.
We could both calm down so wecould be calm when we go.
And so that will cut off thetantrum cycle if you can get it
early on.
(23:42):
Let's do this together.
Let's stop.
Let's stop the car.
Let's stop.
We're gonna breathe, we'regonna smile, and hold hands,
whatever, and then continue onso we both could be in our best
selves.
Absolutely.
Yeah, having someco-regulation, yeah.
Co-regulation, yeah.
You can talk to your child thatway, even if you think they
(24:02):
might not understand every word.
So understand the tone.
Right.
April Snow (24:08):
Exactly.
Yeah, they'll match your energyor tone that will make a big
difference, absolutely.
That's right.
So helping sensitive kids workwith their nervous system,
manage the overwhelm, how can wehelp them embrace their
sensitive gifts?
Dr. Judith Orloff (24:24):
Mm-hmm.
By saying, you know, that'sreally interesting.
And I wanted to pick that up.
That's really tell me about it.
Like just curiosity.
You don't like too much of it.
Now that I want to emphasizetoo, is like, oh, that's a
wonderful, you're such abrilliant child.
Don't say that.
Right, too far.
You you know, I can understandthe enthusiasm, but you just
(24:47):
want to be calm, go, honey.
That's interesting.
Tell me about it.
You know, what is that?
Why do you feel that way?
Oh, you know, that's a goodpoint of view.
I'll think about it.
So you just have you kind oftreat them with respect.
You treat their perceptionswith respect.
You leave room for them beingright or them being wrong in
terms of intuition.
(25:08):
They don't have to be right allthe time, but it's important
that they're expressing theirdreams and their intuition, you
know, to you.
And maybe sometimes it is anintuition, sometimes they're you
know, just afraid to go toschool or they feel bullied, and
you need to know that.
You need to know that so youcan intervene and get the school
(25:29):
authorities involved to helpthe child, they should never be
left alone in that schoolyardwith the bullies.
That's right.
Yeah, so that's I mean, evenwith the highly sensitive
rabbits, she had the bullyingbrothers, but the parents didn't
stop it.
Right, the mother didn't stopit, they just thought it was
normal play, right?
And Aurora is crying all thetime, and then they say she's a
(25:52):
crybaby and don't want to playwith her, and then she feels
like she doesn't belonganywhere, so that's how it goes
off alone.
And luckily, though, in thestory, the different animals
find her and they see how upsetshe is, and they say, Well, when
this happens to me, this iswhat I do.
April Snow (26:10):
Sometimes it's good just to talk to a like-minded
friend, it is, and it's a goodreminder to be curious and open
about your child's experience.
And as you said earlier, justbecause this might be normal
play for one child or would havebeen for you, doesn't mean it
is for your other child, yoursensitive child.
So really looking at theirindividual experience.
Dr. Judith Orloff (26:35):
That's good, that's good.
And one thing I love growing upis sports because I love
handball and I love the ringsgoing on the rings and in a
circle and anything with a ball.
If I can get it in, you know, ahole, then that I was happy.
Yeah.
See if your child likes to playsports too, because that's a
(26:56):
good outlet for them.
It is, absolutely so they don'thold all the tension in and
they could go and play.
Um, even if they just go ontheir own, you know, they don't
have to join a sports team.
Right, something can get alittle complicated.
If they want to do it, that'sfine.
If they don't, that's fine too.
(27:16):
They could just go and swing.
Movement is really good forchildren.
April Snow (27:21):
It's key, yes.
It's how they can work throughtheir emotions, and as you said,
work through that physicaltension.
So important.
And it's a good reminder not toforce them onto a team sport if
that's not their choice,finding other alternatives,
right?
Looking outside the box alittle bit.
Dr. Judith Orloff (27:39):
Right, right, right, exactly.
And and going with them andseeing what they like, they
might tell you what they like.
I mean, they might like birdwatching, right?
So you get bird watching booksand you go out, you know, in the
wild blue yonder with them andlook around for birds and get
bird songs and get Merlin, theMerlin app, which has all these
(28:01):
bird songs on it that you canjust, you know, wherever you are
you're at, you can put the appup and it can identify the local
birds there.
Oh, I love that.
I'm gonna write that down.
Wonderful.
Everybody should have Merlin.
I mean, all so if you lovebirds.
Well, I'm always curious aboutit, so I'm gonna give that up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you can do that with yourchild where you can go somewhere
(28:22):
and say, What bird is that?
And you listen for the songs,and then you look it up and they
go, Oh, you know, it's asparrow, or oh, it's a Robin
Redbreast, or oh, right, youcould know, and then they, oh,
that's fun, you know, and soit's kind of a fun thing you
could do with a nature-lovingHSP child.
April Snow (28:42):
Right.
You get that movement, but youalso get the educational piece
and the curiosity and the sharedexperience together.
It's beautiful all around.
Dr. Judith Orloff (28:51):
There's enforcing socializing, right?
April Snow (28:55):
Exactly.
Dr. Judith Orloff (28:56):
And even if you go with another child or
another family, you all might belooking at the Merlin app
together.
So you have a common task whichisn't overwhelming.
April Snow (29:06):
Right, right.
It could be a little bit morelike parallel play, it's not so
overstimulating that you'restill together.
That's right.
Yeah, I love that just beingable to think about different
ways that your child can expressand engage in what they're
interested in.
It's a yeah, it that's a goodreminder.
(29:27):
Like, let's see where they'redrawn and follow their lead.
Dr. Judith Orloff (29:31):
Right.
Yeah.
Many times HSP children aredrawn to animals or bugs or
moving things, living things.
They love that fish.
Yes.
So you could just go for a walkwherever there are fish or take
them to an aquarium, yeah,which can be a bit overwhelming,
you know, because there's somany lights, but you'd be aware
(29:52):
of that, just see how much timethey want to stay in there, or
if they start getting tantrumand they need a little break to
go out.
There's a lot of stimulation inthe aquarium, but there's a lot
of amazing visuals that thechild can connect to the
creatures.
April Snow (30:09):
There absolutely is.
Yes.
Well, do as we start to wrapup, I'm wondering if there's a
final message for parents thatare listening, they're parenting
your highly sensitive child, orlet's say you're working with
your inner child.
Is there any last thoughts youwould have?
Dr. Judith Orloff (30:26):
Yes.
You know, people are coming tomy book signings for the highly
sensitive rabbit who are adultsand bringing their inner child
because they want their innerchild nurtured.
And that's so beautiful.
I bring my inner childeverywhere.
It's very important to me tohave her with me.
She doesn't rule my life,however, you know, but she's
with me.
And she knows she's not goingto be hurt and she's safe.
(30:49):
And that's a great thing.
And so reading this book, youcan just let your inner child be
happy.
April Snow (30:56):
Yes.
Dr. Judith Orloff (30:57):
It's simple.
It's simple.
Don't make it a complex thing.
It's a simple, beautiful bookthat can make your heart happy
and help you awaken the innerchild within even more and let
the inner child know that you'respending time with her and that
this is for you and her or him.
April Snow (31:19):
I love that.
Yeah, you can just sh do thatwith intention.
Dr. Judith Orloff (31:24):
Yeah.
Yes.
Have it had be a day out, youknow, looking at the book or I
put the book on my bed.
So I do that with books I love.
I don't entirely know what I'mdoing, but I put it there
because I like it near me when Isleep because I'm a good
dreamer and I remember mydreams.
So I just like it.
So you could do whatever youwant with the book.
Put the book somewhere unusualor you know, near you.
(31:47):
I mean, some one child justliked it near her.
Near her.
April Snow (31:53):
I think the size and the imagery is very comforting.
So I could see having it on myaltar or having it on display by
the bedside.
And it is it's reassuring forthat inner child that may that
didn't have these books when wewere growing up.
Right, I know.
Right.
And so now how lucky are we tohave a resource like this that
(32:14):
we can then read to her, him, orthem?
I just love that so much.
Well, Judah, thank you foreverything that you shared
today.
I know parents and our innerchilds are going to be very just
soothed by it.
And I'll be sure to share yourresources in the show notes,
including the book.
Is there anything else that weshould know about the highly
sensitive rabbit that we haven'ttouched on already?
Dr. Judith Orloff (32:36):
This book is about Aurora's journey.
And oh, by the way, Aurora isme.
Mine is Aurora, like in myadult life.
Um people call me Aurora.
Oh, I wondered.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
So this is my childhood.
I'm Aurora the.
Thank you for sharing that.
As you are too.
You're you could be Aurora.
Everybody.
We all could be, yes.
(32:57):
I love that.
Well, thank you, Judith.
Yes, and I also want to say Ihave an empath support
newsletter on my website.
Great.
Which is atdrjudithorlofforf.com.
Perfect.
And I just send out helpfultips and tricks and how to be a
successful, highly sensitiveperson and happiness and you
(33:21):
know what are the what to do inthis crazy world that we're
living in being centered andstill having a good time and
still connecting with love toeveryone, regardless of a lot of
the distractions.
April Snow (33:35):
That's what I'm focusing on too.
How can we find bits of joy andlevity in all of the chaos?
Yep, absolutely.
Yeah, I'll make sure I includethat too in your resources.
Thank you for that.
Thanks so much for joining meand Judith for today's
(33:56):
conversation.
I hope you'll feel inspired towelcome in your own inner child
and or celebrate your highlysensitive little ones.
Get started with Judith's newbook, The Highly Sensitive
Rabbit, which you can findanywhere you get your books.
Links are also in the shownotes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(34:18):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated.
For behind the scenes contentand more HSB resources, you can
sign up for my email list orfollow Sensitive Strengths on
Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestories.com for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
I bring my inner child everywhere.
It's very important to me tohave her with me.
She knows she's safe, andthat's a great thing.
It's a simple, beautiful bookthat can make your heart happy
and help you awaken the innerchild within even more and let
the inner child know that you'respending time with her.
April Snow (00:29):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author April Stowe.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(00:51):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withDr.
Judith Orloff about thestruggles and gifts of being a
highly sensitive child,nurturing your younger self who
didn't know why they weredifferent, and bolstering your
own children who may be HSPs.
Judith is a New York Timesbestselling author,
psychiatrist, and empath.
She wrote the children's book,The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, as
(01:13):
well as The Genius of Empathy,The Empath Survival Guide, and
Thriving as an Empath.
Dr.
Orloff also specializes intreating highly sensitive people
in her medical practice, andher work has been featured on
The Today Show, CNN, OprahMagazine, The New York Times,
and USA Today.
She's also spoken at Google andTEDx.
(01:34):
For more HSP resources and tosee behind the scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, TikTok, or YouTube at
Sensitive Strengths, or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestories.com.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
(01:57):
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in the Judith.
(02:19):
Thank you.
I'm very excited to be here.
Yes.
Can you start off us by tellingus your HSP discovery story?
Do you remember how or when yourealized that you're highly
sensitive and an empath?
Dr. Judith Orloff (02:34):
I didn't have the verbiage to describe it as
a little girl.
So I didn't know what it was.
And my parents, who were bothdoctors, said to me, You're
overly sensitive, you don't havea thick enough skin.
Why don't you toughen up?
You're never going to survivein the world.
You don't belong to this world,you know, just all these
zingers that so many of usheard, children.
(02:57):
And so I took it personally, ofcourse.
And I believed there wassomething wrong with me.
So I held that inside ofmyself, you know, for a long
time.
Because I, you don't know.
As children, your perceptionsare different.
You know, you don't think aboutwell, how I mean, how could I
change that?
Let's say I could change it,but you don't want to change it.
(03:20):
But that's what I was thinking.
So it's very confusing if youdon't get the proper guidance.
As a child, that's why I wrotethe highly sensitive rabbit to
give children the properguidance so they don't have to
struggle like so many of us did,is trying to make sense of this
beautiful trait.
Yes, exactly.
I couldn't make sense of it.
(03:40):
So a lot of confusion for megrowing up, a lot of loneliness.
I was an only child, so Ididn't have any brothers or
sisters.
But that might have made iteven worse because you know, in
the story, the Aurora, who's ourheroine, who's a cottontail
heroine, a rabbit, and in otherwords, she was bullied by her
(04:01):
brothers.
You know, she was called acrybaby and they didn't want to
play with her, and she was offon her own and she didn't feel
like she belonged.
So sometimes having siblingshurts, you know, makes her
worse.
Sometimes it helps if you havea nice one.
April Snow (04:16):
That's true, exactly.
But it you're right, it can bea lot to manage as a young
person when you don't have thelanguage, you don't understand
why you're showing updifferently in the world and why
your parents are trying to getyou to toughen up, especially if
you're not seeing other peoplelike you in the world.
And maybe you are, you justdon't realize it, but not with
the same language.
And so, yeah, we need thesebooks so children can grow up
(04:39):
realizing, oh, this is me, andit's okay.
I'm okay just as I am, andthere's actually good things
about being highly sensitivebecause we often internalize the
negatives.
Dr. Judith Orloff (04:50):
Absolutely.
And the one thing about thisbook that helps convey that
point are the illustrations byKatie Tannis, because they're
not only words saying you'reokay, you've always been okay.
It's the beautiful colors ofthe Sonoran Desert, which is
where this takes place, but itreflects to your soul and it
lets you see the colors of yoursoul, which is really what I
(05:14):
wanted to do is to communicatevisually with these kinds of
picture books that you get to dothat.
You get you know have thesevisuals and the colors and the
nature changes that go on canawaken you know your empath,
HSP, HSE self too.
April Snow (05:33):
Yes, I know the illustrations I was sharing with
you earlier that they're sovibrant and but in this soft,
sensitive, friendly way.
I really appreciate that youfound that balance because I
think little HSCs are gonnareally resonate with that,
right?
There's so much texture andinterest, but in a subtle way,
it's just it's a great balance.
Dr. Judith Orloff (05:55):
Yeah, so at my book signings, I've asked the
little children who come, theysit there a lot of they're very
quiet most of the months theycome, right?
But when I ask them, you know,what are they, it was their
impression, what do they like?
They say they like the colors.
The colors calm them.
April Snow (06:13):
Yes, colors.
Dr. Judith Orloff (06:15):
They respond to the colors, I think perhaps
more than the words, not sure.
It's hard, hard to know, butthat's what they remark on.
April Snow (06:24):
Yes, I can see that because it does draw you in, and
there's a lot of nuance andtexture there, which I think is
interesting for a highlysensitive child.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I'm wondering for listenersthat are out there and thinking
one of my children might behighly sensitive.
What are some signs that wouldpoint them in that direction
(06:46):
that they would know I have ahighly sensitive child?
Dr. Judith Orloff (06:49):
Well, highly sensitive kids are often very
reactive to outer stimuli,noise, smells, sounds, excessive
talking, crowds, video games,screaming, traffic noise,
scratchy labels.
April Snow (07:09):
Yes.
Dr. Judith Orloff (07:10):
Anything on the body that's uncomfortable,
the body of a highly sensitivechild is very attuned to what
touches it.
And so it's important not tohave the scratchy labels.
And if they cry or complainabout that, just cut it up.
Yeah.
It's like a really easy fix fora problem.
They're not being entitled oranything like that.
Parents may misinterpret it.
(07:32):
They just literally don't likethe scratch.
So help them with that.
You know, help them withwhatever they you can.
They're not being entitled andyou they're being authentic.
April Snow (07:44):
That's so true.
You know, everything is a lotlouder when you're highly
sensitive, whether it's sensoryinformation like the tags or the
sounds or your emotions thatyou're feeling.
And it can be very confusingwhen you're a little child.
So I appreciate that you'resaying, because some people
might say, well, buildresilience, make them tough it
out.
You know, I think a lot of ushave had that experience.
(08:04):
But you're saying, no, it'sokay to help them feel more
comfortable.
Dr. Judith Orloff (08:08):
And it doesn't mean they're not tough.
They're gonna be tougher ifthey're not getting scratched
all the time by the label.
It's true.
April Snow (08:16):
It's so true.
Like if we can bear with someof that noise, then they're able
to pour that energy elsewhere.
I think that's such a goodreason.
Dr. Judith Orloff (08:26):
Well, what would what would be toughening
up with the label?
It would be bearing the label.
So you're irritated all daylong.
Exactly.
And that's true for adults too.
You know, just be kind toyourself.
You don't like scratchy labels,so be it.
No, fix the things that can befixed without much problem,
without doing some kind of anegative thought, you know,
(08:50):
coming in and saying, Oh, you'retoo sensitive.
You should be able to standthis label, or you should be
able to stand this loud music.
Why not?
Look at all the other kids andyou compare yourself to the
other kids.
So highly sensitive kids haveparticular sensitivities.
What they love is not going toa baseball game at a stadium
(09:12):
with millions of people, butthey love taking a walk, maybe
in the forest or by a creek orbeing with animals and seeing a
little rabbit or a little animaljump by.
And they love that, they getlots of joy from it.
And so they love poetry andthey love colors and pictures
and staring into space.
(09:34):
You know, that's not a badthing.
Don't worry about them if theystare into space.
I always stare into space.
Yeah, me too.
Finally, the day's over, I canstare into space, you know.
So exactly.
April Snow (09:46):
I know it's that the moment your brain can do its
work.
Dr. Judith Orloff (09:48):
It's like, oh, I can catch up on just
downloading everything andsifting through it, and doing
nothing, and staring into spaceand not thinking about anything
but looking up at the beautifulstars in the sky, which is what
Aurora does, or this is Aurorato get a pick a sense of her
eyes so pretty and what shelooks like.
(10:10):
And this is an example of theillustrations, but she loves
looking at the moon.
Yes, that's something I alwaysloved to do as a child when I
didn't relate to people thatmuch.
I would look up at the moonevery night from my bed.
I'd get under my covers andlook out the window and see the
moon rise.
It's always made me feelconnected.
April Snow (10:31):
I know.
Those are some of my favoritenight parts, too, of just being
quiet in the night and eitherthe moon or the stars or hearing
the little sounds outside, thecrickets, whatever it was.
It's so peaceful.
And I appreciate that reminderto let sensitive kids be who
they are, let them daydream alittle bit, right?
Let them immerse in what theylove.
(10:53):
You don't have to force themmaybe to do all the things you
think they should be doing.
Dr. Judith Orloff (10:59):
Exactly.
And if they say, Oh, I went outto sit with my tree who's my
friend, just say great, asopposed to getting all alarmed
that they think they have afriend that's a tree.
They have friends that aretrees.
That's just what we do.
Exactly.
Maybe the mother or fathermight not understand that
because they've never had afriend that's a tree.
(11:20):
But if you read the highlysensitive rabbit, you'll see
that's very common.
And it's nothing to beconcerned about.
It's a form of creativity.
If you look at the naturalistpoets like Mary Oliver and, you
know, you hear David Whitereciting his poetry.
It's all about having friendsthat are trees.
You know, it's all aboutconnecting to nature in your own
(11:41):
way and looking up at the skyin your own way and seeing
reality in your own way, and nothaving somebody trying to tweak
it or make it more acceptable.
That's parents.
You don't want to do that.
You want to enjoy thecreativity of your child, the
intuitions of your child.
You might child might have anintuition about somebody, they
(12:03):
might really, really likesomebody right away, saying I
like that person.
They might not like anotherperson.
They might say, I'm not gonna,I don't, I don't like this
person.
And instead of saying, as myparents did, what do you mean
you don't even know this person?
That's what they always say.
Yeah, uh well, that's just whatyou know.
I don't feel comfortable, youknow, that you don't have the
(12:26):
words when you're that young.
This is young, and you don'thave the words, but it's just
no, you just get a and so ifthat's your child and you have a
highly sensitive child, atleast find out what they're
feeling like.
What is it about this person?
Oh, they're so sad, mommy.
They're so sad, you know, or orsomething, or they seem angry,
(12:48):
you know.
I whatever it is that they'refeeling, you go, that's
interesting.
I'll think about that.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yes, trust them.
Well, trust them, and also youdon't know, maybe they're not
accurate, you know, maybethey're having anxiety, but you
want to give them thecredibility of considering their
point of view.
April Snow (13:09):
Yes, exactly, because they may be picking up,
as you're saying, something thatyou don't see or feel because
of their perceptive nature.
Dr. Judith Orloff (13:19):
That's right.
And that's what I did as achild.
I had very strong intuitions,and there was one friend who I
picked up that he was gonna thathe was very depressed and
unhappy, although he was veryvibrant and smiley on the
outside, and then he ended uptrying to kill himself.
And so after that, my parentssaid never mention another one
(13:41):
of these intuitions again athome, so I wasn't allowed to
talk about it.
April Snow (13:46):
Wow.
So it was completely cut offfor you at home.
Yep.
And I think that's reallycommon for HSPs because the
parents don't understand whatwe're experiencing internally.
It can be really hard.
Did you find ways to expressthat elsewhere, or did you pull
back from it yourself as well?
Dr. Judith Orloff (14:07):
Oh gosh.
Well, my story is that I gotvery heavily involved in drugs
and to run from my abilities andshut them off.
I didn't want to have anythingto do with them.
I wanted to go with my friendsto parties and to shopping.
I had had it with all this.
And so I don't recommend thispath, of course.
But you know, I got the help Ineeded to see that in order for
(14:28):
me to be whole, I had tointegrate these abilities into
my life.
And that's realization that youcan't not do it if you're an
HSP.
Yeah, you must embrace it.
You can't fight it, you know,it'll cause a lot of problems.
April Snow (14:45):
Yeah, it does it's not because it's not going away,
right?
It's a trait we're born with.
So it will always be there.
And it sounds like you know,there were things your parents
maybe didn't understand orpushed away.
But I think it sounds like whyyou wrote this book, The Highly
Sensitive Rabbit, is to create adifferent experience for kids
that are highly sensitive,right?
Create a dialogue and anunderstanding because so many
(15:08):
kids are ashamed.
We hear that constantly.
You're too sensitive, you'retoo emotional, toughen up, get
over it.
But this book and can helpcreate a different conversation,
right?
Dr. Judith Orloff (15:19):
Right, right, more acceptance, and help the
parents understand the point ofview of the child and the child
to understand the point of viewof the parent.
But I just want to read you onepart of it.
Please.
In the end of the book, there'sall the pictures of the desert
animals and who they are,actually, which is a quite I
love that edition.
(15:39):
I love that too.
This is in the end of the book.
This isn't giving it away.
But the Aurora sat with hermother and watched the moon.
The world can be overwhelmingand hard things happen, her
mother said, but it's alsobeautiful.
Aurora nodded.
Being sensitive did often makeit harder being in the world,
(16:02):
but it helped her see its wildand glorious beauty too.
April Snow (16:06):
I love that so much.
Dr. Judith Orloff (16:08):
Oh, and there they are, mother and Aurora
looking at the moon.
Yes, together or she sometimeslikes being alone.
So one of the skills shelearned from her animal friends
is that she doesn't just becauseshe has a friend, doesn't mean
she has to sit with themwatching the moon all the time.
(16:29):
She could say, No, I'd ratherbe alone tonight.
Or yes, let's go.
So you have a choice, you don'thave to say yes to everybody.
April Snow (16:37):
I appreciated that modeling because I think a lot
of sensitive kids, and I'veheard this recently from folks
that you know they're alwaysencouraged to get outside, be
social, you know, constantly.
It's like, no, we need abalance.
And it's like, yeah, you wantto say yes sometimes, but
sometimes you need to say no andset that limit.
Right.
Right.
And it can be both.
Both are healthy and important.
Yeah.
Dr. Judith Orloff (16:58):
Exactly right.
And for the children to acceptthemselves is so important.
And one thing I always heard asan HSP, and this drove me
crazy, and as an adult, it'slike really a button for me,
where they say you'reexperiencing something.
Let's say you have a pain inyour ankle or something, and
they say, We have never heardanybody else express this
(17:19):
before.
You're the only one.
Right.
It's like just I know it's soagitating.
April Snow (17:26):
Right.
But I am experiencing it.
Dr. Judith Orloff (17:28):
Right, right.
But just as a warning to themoms and the kids and the dads,
they might say that I've neverheard anybody say that before.
April Snow (17:37):
Right.
My whole life.
Yes, I know.
And but it doesn't make it anyless valid.
Dr. Judith Orloff (17:43):
Just because you haven't heard from my
perspective, this is how it is.
And there's no negotiating it.
But for them to say, Well, I'venever heard anything like that
before.
So I'm very careful, I'm apsychiatrist, and you know, with
my patients.
And if I see younger patients,to not do that to them, to not
say, Well, I've never heard ofthat before.
(18:05):
If they say, I'm taking thismedication and I see purple, my
whole world is turning purple,and it doesn't say that
anywhere, I don't care.
Right.
I see fine, I understand.
Your world is purple.
Let's deal with it.
Yes, exactly.
Right.
You take it seriously, youdon't dismiss it.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter if no oneelse ever experienced it before.
(18:28):
That's the whole point.
Right.
April Snow (18:30):
How can you possibly capture every experience?
Dr. Judith Orloff (18:34):
Right.
It matters that you'reexperiencing it now.
Yes.
That's what matters.
April Snow (18:39):
Yes, exactly.
And that's something you cansay to your child.
Yes.
That matters.
Dr. Judith Orloff (18:44):
I hear you.
That's right.
I want to know what you'refeeling.
Yeah, right.
April Snow (18:49):
Be curious and open-minded about it.
Dr. Judith Orloff (18:52):
Yeah, but don't overdo it either.
I've seen some parents, yeah.
April Snow (18:56):
Oh, Charlie, don't I say the child doesn't want to
do anything?
That's true, too.
I've seen that too, wherethere's overemphasis on the
emotion to the point ofoverwhelm.
Dr. Judith Orloff (19:06):
Right, right.
April Snow (19:07):
Yes.
So maybe we could talk aboutthat.
You know, obviously, highlysensitive kids will get more
easily overwhelmed.
How can they start to work withthat?
I know you include some thingsin the book, but what are some
go-tos that you recommend toparents?
Dr. Judith Orloff (19:23):
Well, one thing that Aurora learned from
one of her bird friends was thatwhen she gets overwhelmed, she
takes a breath immediately.
She stops and takes a breath.
She doesn't work it up in hermind.
She this one is even good.
And two if she wants to.
But to get in the habit andprogram yourself to take a deep
(19:48):
breath and relax if you'refeeling overstimulated.
That helps to calm it down.
You know, and you can do thisanywhere as people don't really
notice what you're doing.
No, or go in the bathroom.
You know, I always go in thebathroom.
Same.
April Snow (20:04):
Yeah, it's the refuge.
Dr. Judith Orloff (20:07):
Yeah.
So don't feel bad about goingin the bathroom.
Just go in, close the door,take a breath.
You might want to put your handover your heart because that's
very calming and pat yourselflike this.
Mothers often do this.
You think you just pat over theheart and you begin to calm
yourself down.
So that's good.
And if you're at home andyou're starting to feel it, you
(20:31):
can go into your room or go intoa room that's quiet.
So you don't have continualtalking.
The excessive talking cantrigger the children.
If the talking it just getscrazy blurred together, you
know, just we we can't processthat many words at once.
(20:52):
It is too many.
And so just to know that, Ithink parents need to know that
and slow it down a little bit,you know, slow it down, be calm
and not trying to fit it inbetween all these other things.
That won't work.
I understand your impulse to dothat because you're so busy.
Work with the child, so you'vegot to weigh that.
April Snow (21:14):
Yes.
Yeah, it's so important to slowthings down.
I think a lot of times parentswant to process verbally, not
realizing that A, that'soverstimulating, and B, the
child more than likely willrespond more to a somatic or
physical intervention than averbal one.
Dr. Judith Orloff (21:32):
Right.
April Snow (21:33):
So even just interrupting the cycle of
overwhelm with that breath orchanging locations, it makes a
big difference.
Dr. Judith Orloff (21:40):
Yes, give them a stuffed animal, uh, close
the door if they want peace andquiet in a room and let them do
whatever they're gonna do withthe stuffed animal or the
pillows or look out the windowso they can find their center.
You just want to remove themfrom the excessive stimulation.
That's really important.
And if you're upset, if theparents are upset, or if you're
(22:04):
yelling or you're raising yourvoice or you're getting
impatient, this is the time foryou to take a time out, too.
Good reminder, right?
The parents also need a break.
They do.
Oh my God.
It's a full-time job.
April Snow (22:18):
Yes, exactly.
A lot of people say, Well, Idon't know how I'll fit this in.
Let's all do it together.
The whole family could take abreak.
Dr. Judith Orloff (22:26):
If you can get them together, yeah.
April Snow (22:28):
If you can do that, or going off into your having
your separate time alone.
But there sounds like you know,there needs to be maybe a
little bit of disruption orshift in the chaos.
Dr. Judith Orloff (22:39):
Yes, yes, and the child learning to make an
inner shift that's simple.
Yes, the hand on the heart, thebreath.
If you can go into the room,take some alone time and just
play whatever you want to do.
Look at a book, play, just sitthere.
Yes, talk to your imaginaryfriends, whatever makes you
(23:01):
happy, just go do it.
You know, follow your list.
April Snow (23:04):
Yeah, how life-changing to have those
tools and that permission earlyon.
That's not something I learnedprobably until my late 20s or
30s.
Right, yeah, yes.
So to instill that early on canreally be life-changing.
Dr. Judith Orloff (23:21):
Oh, yeah.
Like if the child's gettingworked up in the car and you
have to go somewhere, you couldjust look at the child and say,
honey, we have to go somewhere.
Let's just take a minute, takea breath together.
We could both calm down so wecould be calm when we go.
And so that will cut off thetantrum cycle if you can get it
early on.
(23:42):
Let's do this together.
Let's stop.
Let's stop the car.
Let's stop.
We're gonna breathe, we'regonna smile, and hold hands,
whatever, and then continue onso we both could be in our best
selves.
Absolutely.
Yeah, having someco-regulation, yeah.
Co-regulation, yeah.
You can talk to your child thatway, even if you think they
(24:02):
might not understand every word.
So understand the tone.
Right.
April Snow (24:08):
Exactly.
Yeah, they'll match your energyor tone that will make a big
difference, absolutely.
That's right.
So helping sensitive kids workwith their nervous system,
manage the overwhelm, how can wehelp them embrace their
sensitive gifts?
Dr. Judith Orloff (24:24):
Mm-hmm.
By saying, you know, that'sreally interesting.
And I wanted to pick that up.
That's really tell me about it.
Like just curiosity.
You don't like too much of it.
Now that I want to emphasizetoo, is like, oh, that's a
wonderful, you're such abrilliant child.
Don't say that.
Right, too far.
You you know, I can understandthe enthusiasm, but you just
(24:47):
want to be calm, go, honey.
That's interesting.
Tell me about it.
You know, what is that?
Why do you feel that way?
Oh, you know, that's a goodpoint of view.
I'll think about it.
So you just have you kind oftreat them with respect.
You treat their perceptionswith respect.
You leave room for them beingright or them being wrong in
terms of intuition.
(25:08):
They don't have to be right allthe time, but it's important
that they're expressing theirdreams and their intuition, you
know, to you.
And maybe sometimes it is anintuition, sometimes they're you
know, just afraid to go toschool or they feel bullied, and
you need to know that.
You need to know that so youcan intervene and get the school
(25:29):
authorities involved to helpthe child, they should never be
left alone in that schoolyardwith the bullies.
That's right.
Yeah, so that's I mean, evenwith the highly sensitive
rabbits, she had the bullyingbrothers, but the parents didn't
stop it.
Right, the mother didn't stopit, they just thought it was
normal play, right?
And Aurora is crying all thetime, and then they say she's a
(25:52):
crybaby and don't want to playwith her, and then she feels
like she doesn't belonganywhere, so that's how it goes
off alone.
And luckily, though, in thestory, the different animals
find her and they see how upsetshe is, and they say, Well, when
this happens to me, this iswhat I do.
April Snow (26:10):
Sometimes it's good just to talk to a like-minded
friend, it is, and it's a goodreminder to be curious and open
about your child's experience.
And as you said earlier, justbecause this might be normal
play for one child or would havebeen for you, doesn't mean it
is for your other child, yoursensitive child.
So really looking at theirindividual experience.
Dr. Judith Orloff (26:35):
That's good, that's good.
And one thing I love growing upis sports because I love
handball and I love the ringsgoing on the rings and in a
circle and anything with a ball.
If I can get it in, you know, ahole, then that I was happy.
Yeah.
See if your child likes to playsports too, because that's a
(26:56):
good outlet for them.
It is, absolutely so they don'thold all the tension in and
they could go and play.
Um, even if they just go ontheir own, you know, they don't
have to join a sports team.
Right, something can get alittle complicated.
If they want to do it, that'sfine.
If they don't, that's fine too.
(27:16):
They could just go and swing.
Movement is really good forchildren.
April Snow (27:21):
It's key, yes.
It's how they can work throughtheir emotions, and as you said,
work through that physicaltension.
So important.
And it's a good reminder not toforce them onto a team sport if
that's not their choice,finding other alternatives,
right?
Looking outside the box alittle bit.
Dr. Judith Orloff (27:39):
Right, right, right, exactly.
And and going with them andseeing what they like, they
might tell you what they like.
I mean, they might like birdwatching, right?
So you get bird watching booksand you go out, you know, in the
wild blue yonder with them andlook around for birds and get
bird songs and get Merlin, theMerlin app, which has all these
(28:01):
bird songs on it that you canjust, you know, wherever you are
you're at, you can put the appup and it can identify the local
birds there.
Oh, I love that.
I'm gonna write that down.
Wonderful.
Everybody should have Merlin.
I mean, all so if you lovebirds.
Well, I'm always curious aboutit, so I'm gonna give that up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you can do that with yourchild where you can go somewhere
(28:22):
and say, What bird is that?
And you listen for the songs,and then you look it up and they
go, Oh, you know, it's asparrow, or oh, it's a Robin
Redbreast, or oh, right, youcould know, and then they, oh,
that's fun, you know, and soit's kind of a fun thing you
could do with a nature-lovingHSP child.
April Snow (28:42):
Right.
You get that movement, but youalso get the educational piece
and the curiosity and the sharedexperience together.
It's beautiful all around.
Dr. Judith Orloff (28:51):
There's enforcing socializing, right?
April Snow (28:55):
Exactly.
Dr. Judith Orloff (28:56):
And even if you go with another child or
another family, you all might belooking at the Merlin app
together.
So you have a common task whichisn't overwhelming.
April Snow (29:06):
Right, right.
It could be a little bit morelike parallel play, it's not so
overstimulating that you'restill together.
That's right.
Yeah, I love that just beingable to think about different
ways that your child can expressand engage in what they're
interested in.
It's a yeah, it that's a goodreminder.
(29:27):
Like, let's see where they'redrawn and follow their lead.
Dr. Judith Orloff (29:31):
Right.
Yeah.
Many times HSP children aredrawn to animals or bugs or
moving things, living things.
They love that fish.
Yes.
So you could just go for a walkwherever there are fish or take
them to an aquarium, yeah,which can be a bit overwhelming,
you know, because there's somany lights, but you'd be aware
(29:52):
of that, just see how much timethey want to stay in there, or
if they start getting tantrumand they need a little break to
go out.
There's a lot of stimulation inthe aquarium, but there's a lot
of amazing visuals that thechild can connect to the
creatures.
April Snow (30:09):
There absolutely is.
Yes.
Well, do as we start to wrapup, I'm wondering if there's a
final message for parents thatare listening, they're parenting
your highly sensitive child, orlet's say you're working with
your inner child.
Is there any last thoughts youwould have?
Dr. Judith Orloff (30:26):
Yes.
You know, people are coming tomy book signings for the highly
sensitive rabbit who are adultsand bringing their inner child
because they want their innerchild nurtured.
And that's so beautiful.
I bring my inner childeverywhere.
It's very important to me tohave her with me.
She doesn't rule my life,however, you know, but she's
with me.
And she knows she's not goingto be hurt and she's safe.
(30:49):
And that's a great thing.
And so reading this book, youcan just let your inner child be
happy.
April Snow (30:56):
Yes.
Dr. Judith Orloff (30:57):
It's simple.
It's simple.
Don't make it a complex thing.
It's a simple, beautiful bookthat can make your heart happy
and help you awaken the innerchild within even more and let
the inner child know that you'respending time with her and that
this is for you and her or him.
April Snow (31:19):
I love that.
Yeah, you can just sh do thatwith intention.
Dr. Judith Orloff (31:24):
Yeah.
Yes.
Have it had be a day out, youknow, looking at the book or I
put the book on my bed.
So I do that with books I love.
I don't entirely know what I'mdoing, but I put it there
because I like it near me when Isleep because I'm a good
dreamer and I remember mydreams.
So I just like it.
So you could do whatever youwant with the book.
Put the book somewhere unusualor you know, near you.
(31:47):
I mean, some one child justliked it near her.
Near her.
April Snow (31:53):
I think the size and the imagery is very comforting.
So I could see having it on myaltar or having it on display by
the bedside.
And it is it's reassuring forthat inner child that may that
didn't have these books when wewere growing up.
Right, I know.
Right.
And so now how lucky are we tohave a resource like this that
(32:14):
we can then read to her, him, orthem?
I just love that so much.
Well, Judah, thank you foreverything that you shared
today.
I know parents and our innerchilds are going to be very just
soothed by it.
And I'll be sure to share yourresources in the show notes,
including the book.
Is there anything else that weshould know about the highly
sensitive rabbit that we haven'ttouched on already?
Dr. Judith Orloff (32:36):
This book is about Aurora's journey.
And oh, by the way, Aurora isme.
Mine is Aurora, like in myadult life.
Um people call me Aurora.
Oh, I wondered.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
So this is my childhood.
I'm Aurora the.
Thank you for sharing that.
As you are too.
You're you could be Aurora.
Everybody.
We all could be, yes.
(32:57):
I love that.
Well, thank you, Judith.
Yes, and I also want to say Ihave an empath support
newsletter on my website.
Great.
Which is atdrjudithorlofforf.com.
Perfect.
And I just send out helpfultips and tricks and how to be a
successful, highly sensitiveperson and happiness and you
(33:21):
know what are the what to do inthis crazy world that we're
living in being centered andstill having a good time and
still connecting with love toeveryone, regardless of a lot of
the distractions.
April Snow (33:35):
That's what I'm focusing on too.
How can we find bits of joy andlevity in all of the chaos?
Yep, absolutely.
Yeah, I'll make sure I includethat too in your resources.
Thank you for that.
Thanks so much for joining meand Judith for today's
(33:56):
conversation.
I hope you'll feel inspired towelcome in your own inner child
and or celebrate your highlysensitive little ones.
Get started with Judith's newbook, The Highly Sensitive
Rabbit, which you can findanywhere you get your books.
Links are also in the shownotes.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(34:18):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated.
For behind the scenes contentand more HSB resources, you can
sign up for my email list orfollow Sensitive Strengths on
Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestories.com for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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