December 2, 2025 • 40 mins
Do you feel overwhelmed and underappreciated at work? In this episode, I talk with Melody Wilding, LMSW about trusting yourself at work and:
• Balancing the strengths and liabilities of being what Melody calls a “Sensitive Striver”
• Trusting your intuition as a valuable source of information
• The key to speaking up in meetings starts by building relationships and taking care of your nervous system before the meeting
• Living with an honor roll hangover from your school days and how that could be contributing to burnout as an adult in the workplace
• Why overperforming and perfectionism often harm your chances of advancement at work
• Strategies for setting boundaries at work and what to say when you’ve overcommitted
• Creating a “me manual” to help you communicate how you work best while establishing reciprocal relationships with your supervisors
Melody is the best-selling author of Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work. Named one of Business Insider’s Most Innovative Coaches for her groundbreaking work on “Sensitive Strivers,” her clients include CEOs, C-level executives, and managers at top Fortune 500 companies such as Google, Amazon, and JP Morgan, among others. Melody has been featured in The New York Times and Wall Street Journal and is a contributor to Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Psychology Today, and Forbes. Melody is a licensed social worker with a masters from Columbia University and a professor of Human Behavior at Hunter College.
Keep in touch with Melody:
• Website: https://melodywilding.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melodywilding/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melodywilding/
• Facebook Community: https://melodywilding.com/community
Resources Mentioned:
• Get a free chapter from Melody's book, Trust Yourself: Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work, here: https://melodywilding.com/chapter
• Trust Yourself Book by Melody Wilding: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9781797201962
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melody Wilding (00:20):
You have more control than you think to shape
what's happening around you.
And I think that's importantfor HSPs and sensitive strivers
to hear because we often feel atthe whim of everything that's
happening around us.
We often feel because we'remore sensitive that we can't
handle these situations.
(00:41):
We can't handle the stress.
We can't handle the demands.
But you can if you are takingcare of yourself and treating
yourself in the right way.
April Snow (00:57):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author April Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(01:19):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withMelody Walleting about how
perfectionism contributes toburnout at work, how setting
boundaries and honoring yoursensitive needs actually
benefits everyone, and learningto trust yourself and speak up
at work when you're a few stepsahead.
Melody is the best-sellingauthor of Trust Yourself: Stop
(01:41):
Overthinking and Channel YourEmotions for Success at Work.
Named one of Business Insider'smost innovative coaches for her
groundbreaking work onsensitive drivers, her clients
include CEOs, C-levelexecutives, and managers at top
Fortune 500 companies such asGoogle, Amazon, and JP Morgan.
Melody has been featured in theNew York Times and the Wall
(02:04):
Street Journal and is acontributor to the Harvard
Business Review, Fast Company,Psychology Today, and Forbes.
Melody is a licensed socialworker with a master's from
Columbia University and aprofessor of human behavior at
Hunter College.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind-the-scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, TikTok, or YouTube at
(02:26):
Sensitive Strengths, or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestories.com.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Melody Wilding (03:19):
And most of all, it was very reassuring and it
was very relieving to know thatnothing was wrong with me.
I wasn't broken or somehowdefective.
And also that I wasn't alonebecause I think I felt like I
was the only person whostruggled with some of the
(03:40):
things I struggled with.
And so it was really nice toknow that I was not alone.
And I think the overall feelingwas it actually allowed me to
be much more objective aboutchallenges I faced, even
strengths that I had, because Irealized this is part of my
(04:00):
biology.
It's part of how I'm wired.
It just is.
It is just a fact that isneutral.
And having that self-knowledgejust changed so much about how I
could manage myself, my day,the types of environments I put
myself in.
Yeah, I think it also led to alevel of acceptance too.
(04:22):
Again, that I didn't have thislevel of shame over everything.
April Snow (04:26):
It is neutral, isn't it?
It is a fact that we have thistrait and it comes with certain
qualities and gifts and thingsto offer.
I'm wondering, would you mindsharing one of those gifts that
you've noticed over the yearsthat you bring to the table?
Yeah.
Melody Wilding (04:44):
I am very intuitive.
So I think the idea of beingvery aware of the environment,
changes in people's bodylanguage or different dynamics.
I'm the person where we couldgo out to dinner with a bunch of
people and I could say,something was off.
And my husband will say, I haveno idea what you're talking
(05:05):
about.
And then a few weeks or monthslater, oh, that person is
leaving their job or what haveyou.
Something comes up where it'slike, see, I knew something was
up there.
So just being able to sensethose shifts in the environment
has been incredibly helpful.
And again, something that Ithought everyone can do this.
(05:27):
Yes.
But what I've learned over timeis often the things that come
easy to us, those are ourstrengths, those are our gifts,
yet they're the very thing wediscount as unimportant.
April Snow (05:40):
Exactly.
It's true.
I hear this from so manyclients that I work with.
I've had this my experiencemyself, where we assume our
experience is the universalexperience, which makes sense.
It's the only experience thatwe know.
But if we look closer,especially for sensitive, we all
have different gifts andstrengths, but for sensitive
people, we bring a certainquality to the table.
(06:01):
And intuition is a big one,right?
Being able to sense somethingin a room and not knowing maybe
why you know it, but you knowit, it's true.
And it can be difficult totrust that, to believe it when,
like you said, when othersaround you, like your husband,
are not picking up on it.
(06:21):
So how do you lean in and say,I know this is truth for me?
I know I can trust myintuition.
How do you yeah, how have youbeen able to do that?
Melody Wilding (06:31):
Yeah, it's such a great question because it's
very ethereal, right?
Intuition is not, andespecially when you hear the
word intuition, it's been usedoften in a very mystical
context.
But in psychological terms,intuition is really just the
collection of all of yourexperiences and the data you've
(06:54):
taken in.
And as more sensitive people,we're not only scanning the
environment and taking in morebits of information, we're also
processing that more deeply.
Yes.
And so thinking about it thatway, that this is not some
magical quality I have, but it'sreally a strength of being able
to tap into, synthesize, makeconnections and conclusions out
(07:20):
of my past experiences, that hasmade it so much more concrete
for me and a strength where nowI can lean into it and know
based on my experience, there'sbeen a pattern here in the past.
Does that mean every situationis going to be like that?
No, but it helps me predict.
(07:41):
And also, especially as a coachin this line of work, being
able to sense what's going onfor people, to read between the
lines or notice someone's toneof voice shifts when they start
talking about a subject.
Being able to sense, like,there's something going on here,
and actually speak to that andsay, Hey, I noticed when you
(08:06):
talked about this aspect of yourjob, your voice got really
flat.
What's going on with that?
And that could unlock a hugeaha for someone to say, Oh, I
never realized that before.
And so just having the enoughcourage to do that over time and
have it go well again gives meconfidence in that, you know
(08:27):
what?
If I try it and I put somethinglike that out there, what is
the worst that could happen?
The person says, No, actually,your perception is not right.
But nine times out of 10, itjust adds so much to my
relationships, my work, whetherit's personal or it's
professional.
April Snow (08:44):
Absolutely.
There's two opportunitiesthere.
One is to help the persondeepen their own insights about
themselves, being a mirror forthem.
Or two, it allows you tounderstand them more and let
them explain, process their ownexperience, inform you of that
experience.
So for me, it's open eitherway, whether you get it right or
(09:05):
wrong, there's still adeepening and a knowing.
I love that.
And I appreciate that you saidintuition is also often
objective based on data, notalways, but when it's true.
And we can lean into that andrecognizing when that intuition
is correct and recognizing howoften we get it right and not
(09:26):
dismissing that.
Oh, so good.
Melody Wilding (09:28):
Yeah.
And when I talk about this withmy clients, we also we often
talk about it as the skill ofdiscernment.
Yes.
And discernment is making senseof a situation and most of the
time figuring out what's truthhere or what's right for me in
this situation.
And there's a reason my book iscalled Trust Yourself.
(09:51):
Trust yourself.
I was just thinking back.
Perfect.
Yeah.
And it's because many timeswith sensitive people, we've had
our experiences invalidated ourentire lives.
Stop being so sensitive.
You're taking things toopersonally, aka your perception
of the world is not right.
Look at it a different way.
That it really is a muscle todiscern what do I want in this
(10:15):
situation?
What am I feeling?
What do I think is right here?
Is really a muscle you need torebuild and practice.
April Snow (10:24):
Yes, exactly.
It is all about learning totrust yourself.
And it does take practice, ittakes time to unravel those
messages.
You're too sensitive, you'renot enough of this or that.
Yeah.
And it's possible to do that.
Yeah.
So I know another label oranother way you identify as a
sensitive striver, which I lovethis term.
It's one I identify withmyself.
(10:45):
It's one you've coined duringyour work with your coaching.
Can you describe what thatmeans for folks who aren't
familiar?
Melody Wilding (10:52):
Yes.
The simplest way to describe itis a sensitive striver is
someone who is highly sensitiveand add on the high achieving
piece.
High achieving doesn'tnecessarily mean you're in the
C-suite, you're you're gunningto climb the corporate ladder.
High achieving means you arevery driven.
(11:13):
You set a lot of goals foryourself.
You may have big goals andambitions for your career.
But it's really what I havefound is many highly sensitive
people are also very gifted,right?
Very highly intelligent.
And that drive, that level ofinner drive can come with
tremendous strengths.
(11:34):
But again, must much like allof our traits, there's a flip
side to it if we are not able torecognize it or we don't have
the tools, or we're not able tomanage it correctly.
So sensitive strivers tend to,again, they have the high
sensitivity aspect where theyfeel and think things deeply,
but they may also struggle withwhat I call the honor roll
(11:57):
hangover, which is the A plusgold star student mentality of I
have to get all the A pluses, Ihave to be the rule follower,
the good boy or girl.
And so there's a mix of peoplepleasing in there as well.
Perfectionism also tends tocome into play a lot.
Overfunctioning, where you aretaking on more responsibility
(12:20):
than is yours.
So again, it's the plus sidesand downsides.
April Snow (12:24):
I know a lot of HSPs do overperform, overfunction,
whether it's at work or in theirfamily life and their
relationships and every aspectof their life.
Um wanting to, I think, bufferagainst a lot of that criticism
we've faced throughout our livesin different ways.
And you talked about there's alot of gifts to being a
sensitive striver.
(12:45):
I'm wondering if you couldspeak to for those HSPs who
think and feel so deeply andoften forget that value that
they bring at work.
Could you speak to what some ofthose gifts are?
Melody Wilding (12:56):
Yeah.
And I'm sure you've come acrossthis stat, which is that
managers tend to rate people whoare more sensitive as their top
performers.
And it's precisely for a lot ofthe reasons we're talking
about.
Sensitive people tend toironically be great at things
like sales and marketing becausethey understand other people's
(13:20):
needs.
They're very highly empatheticand they can connect with other
people.
We tend to be conscientious andthoughtful.
I think a lot of sensitivepeople would label themselves as
risk averse when in fact wetend to be strategic risk
takers.
We tend to be thoughtful,right, and considerate about the
what are the upsides or thedownsides here.
(13:42):
Let's make the best choicepossible.
We also tend to be verydiplomatic communicators because
we're considering what's theimpact of our statements before
we say them.
And we're often not the peoplein the workplace who are
speaking just to be heard.
We are speaking to add valueand to add nuance to a
(14:05):
conversation.
I think one thing I've alsoseen too is that sensitive
strivers tend to be the peoplethat see problems or see
opportunities a bit earlier thanothers.
Yes.
Which sometimes they may secondguess themselves because
they'll say, I see this, but noone else does.
Why isn't anybody else sayingsomething?
(14:26):
And it's often because you'reone or two steps ahead.
And so when people tell methat, again, that's another
aspect to lean into that youhave that unique perspective to
speak up about.
So don't always second guessyourself on those things.
April Snow (14:41):
It goes back to trusting your intuition,
remembering all the times whereyou did see something one or two
steps ahead to help you maybegather the strength or the
bravery to speak up.
Because I know I get asked thisquestion a lot is how can I
speak up more in meetings?
How can I allow my voice totake up space at work when
(15:01):
others aren't seeing things theway that I see them?
I wonder if you have anythoughts on that.
I'm sure that's somethingyou've dealt with in your
coaching.
All the time.
Melody Wilding (15:10):
Yes, all the time.
A couple of things.
I think speaking up in meetingsactually happens way before you
even get into the conferenceroom or join the Zoom call.
Okay.
And for us as sensitive peoplein April, you can tell me if
this has been your experiencetoo.
But I find we need to feel alevel of comfort and safety with
(15:33):
the people around us.
Definitely.
And yeah.
And if we don't feel that, oreven if we don't feel we have
enough context on the people inthe room, the situation, we're
more hesitant to speak up.
Yes.
And so getting to know thepeople in the room, whether many
times a lot of folks that Iwork with, probably you work
(15:54):
with, work in very matrixed,cross-functional environments.
They may be in rooms withpeople that are in levels of
positional power above them orthat they've only met on Zoom a
few times.
So actually being intentionalabout building those
relationships, getting to knowpeople through 20-minute coffee
(16:14):
chats.
Or if you do have to, let'ssay, bring a decision or you
need to present something topeople in the room, having the
meeting before the meeting todebrief them on, hey, here's how
I'm planning to present this.
How does this land with you?
What questions do you have so Ican make sure I address them?
(16:35):
So you feel more confidentgoing into that.
And your mind doesn't spiraland fill in the gaps with all
negative perceptions of whatcould happen.
So getting comfortablebeforehand, so you feel more
comfortable speaking up in themoment, and as uncomfortable as
it can be, challenging yourselfto speak up early on.
(16:58):
So being one of the first, Iwould say first three, three to
five people to speak in themeeting.
And again, this isn't aboutjust talking for talking sake,
but it's about overcoming yourown fear because the longer the
meeting goes on, the more likelythat it is all the good ideas
(17:20):
will be out on the table.
You'll feel you'll convinceyourself people have checked
out.
I'm I shouldn't say anythingnow.
And the more your resistancewill build.
And so if you speak up earlyon, it builds your confidence
with saying something early.
And you don't have to saysomething groundbreaking.
You can ask a thoughtfulquestion.
(17:41):
You can build on what somebodyelse has said.
John, that was a great idea.
Something else I considered isXYZ.
So there's something herearound letting go of the
perfectionistic idea that it hasto be this breakthrough share
that nobody else has everconsidered or thought of.
Take that off, but you get usedto using your voice and get
(18:05):
other people used to hearingyour voice as well.
April Snow (18:08):
Exactly.
You can be the connector attimes, the mirror at times, just
to help bolster thisconversation.
I appreciate that permission toallow it to be imperfect and
also to support yoursensitivity.
We're great at buildingrelationships with HSPs.
And that's something we can doone-to-one in shorter bursts.
(18:29):
You said those 20 to 30 minutecoffee breaks or chats.
And then preparing ahead oftime is so crucial.
So your nervous system isfamiliar with what might happen.
I know Dr.
Aaron talks about this a lot.
Get in the room if you canbefore you have a presentation.
Familiarize yourself with theperson that you're going to be
talking with.
Go to the restaurant ahead oftime if you have an important
(18:50):
dinner.
How can you take away as manyunknowns as possible?
So important.
And this can all you can dothis all in the workplace.
Melody Wilding (18:59):
Yeah.
And if I could add to that, soplease exciting.
Yeah, I love the point abouttry to make it as real as
possible.
That's something.
So I do a lot of speaking, andsomething I've started requiring
when I speak in person is thatI have the ability to get in the
room at least two hours, if notthe day before the event,
(19:21):
because I've had too manysituations where my first time
seeing the stage, seeing how bigit is, where the screen is 15
minutes before I have to give mytalk.
And that just sends, to yourpoint, the unpredictability just
sends my level of stimulationthrough the roof.
And then I can't show up in thebest way.
So that's a great example ofunderstanding your wiring, being
(19:45):
able to ask for what you need,which is a perfectly reasonable
request.
And one other thing I'll add tothe suggestion of try to settle
into the room, lowering yourlevel of stimulation before you
get into these types ofsituations.
Yes.
So you everyone is very busy.
We're all stressed out, HSPsand sensitive strivers more and
(20:09):
if you go into a meeting andyour level of stimulation is
already at an eight or a nineout of 10, any little situation
is going to send you into thatreally debilitating fight or
flight state.
Yes.
And so if it's five deep bellybreaths, I have some clients who
(20:29):
create a pre-meeting protocolwhere, okay, I have my notes, I
have my water, I've checked Ihave the right Zoom link, I've
had a bio break.
And that's their warm-up ritualthat calms them down, gets them
in the zone.
And then one other verypractical thing is try not to
have back to back to back toback to back meetings.
(20:51):
I know that is easier said thandone.
But if you have the ability toeven take one-hour meetings,
make those 50 minutes or 55minutes.
So you have just that littlebit of buffer where you can
catch up on emails, you can takea breath.
And you and I know from beingtherapists for so long that
(21:15):
there's a reason our sessionsare 50 minutes.
April Snow (21:17):
Yeah, or 45 minutes, exactly.
Melody Wilding (21:20):
So we have a little space in between.
And I've just found that hasmade that just small little
shift has made such a hugedifference for so many people I
work with.
April Snow (21:30):
It's true.
Like you said, work with yourwiring, know your nervous
system.
It's going to be more impactedby stimuli and input.
And I think this is the thingthat people don't realize, and
my clients are always reallyastounded by.
It just takes a little, right?
That differentialsusceptibility where we are more
impacted by the positives.
(21:50):
Five, 10 minutes makes a bigdifference.
It doesn't sound like a lot,but it can be groundbreaking
when you have that throughoutyour day.
Just to take a moment todecompress, to check in so
you're not worrying about whatemails have come in during that
last meeting or the you know,the three back-to-back meetings.
Yeah.
What little tweaks can youmake?
(22:10):
So important.
I love that.
Melody Wilding (22:13):
Can I can I add one thing to that?
Please too.
Yeah, please do.
Which is yeah, yes, literally,physiologically, it makes a huge
difference.
April Snow (22:21):
Yes.
Melody Wilding (22:22):
And I think also psychologically and
emotionally, it's a very strongsignal to yourself that you
matter, right?
I respect myself enough to dothese things.
And I always like to tell myclients that self-trust is built
by the promises you keep toyourself.
(22:42):
Because again, all of us aremany sensitive strivers or HSPs.
We will put everyone else'sneeds ahead of our own, which
sends the signal to yourselfthat I'm not important.
Everybody else is moreimportant than me.
And it's not necessarily, Ilike to say, you don't need to,
you don't need to prioritizeyour needs over others, but you
(23:06):
don't need to necessarily putyourself first.
You need to make yourself equalto other people.
At least give yourself thatyour needs are just as important
as other people's.
And you need to send your thatsignal to yourself as well.
April Snow (23:20):
We often do put ourselves at the bottom of the
list, and then theperfectionism, the guilt takes
control, and then we'reconstantly feeling
overstimulated, even burnt out,which has a very significant
impact on the way we're able towork.
So yeah, how can we signal toourselves it's okay to put
yourself on an equal plane?
(23:41):
And I think that's the worry iswe often think, oh, I'm putting
myself ahead, and that makes usuncomfortable a lot of times as
HSPs, but we're just puttingourselves at the same level.
That's it.
That's what we're doing.
Exactly.
Melody Wilding (23:53):
Yes, exactly.
It's not about superiority.
April Snow (23:56):
That's right.
It's just about getting ourneeds met.
So, how do we do that?
So, when we're you said a lotof supervisors, managers will
rate their HSP employees thehighest, which makes sense.
We're bringing a lot to thetable.
How do we communicate our needsand these gifts to the people
that manage us if we're notyeah?
Melody Wilding (24:19):
I am a huge advocate of having what I call
the styles conversation, whichis with your manager, the other
key people you work with, havinga conversation about how you
work, you and them.
So you have the opportunity toshare.
I'm speaking me personally asMelody that I'm the type of
(24:45):
person.
If April, before we met today,you sent me the questions.
Thank you.
That is that is the most I canask.
I like to show up prepared.
I like to know what I'm walkinginto.
And so if someone is able tocommunicate with their boss
wherever possible, I like to beable to show up and make sure
I'm making my best contribution.
(25:06):
And to help with that, havingthe agenda or having questions I
can prepare, or even justthought starters is really
helpful for me.
All the way to things like whenin terms of feedback, if you
ever have to give me feedback,it helps me if you could start
by telling me what's going rightbefore we get into what could
be better.
(25:26):
Or I have some people that willsay, I don't mind if you grab
me at the end of a meeting andgive me some feedback then.
Whereas other people would say,I would actually prefer to meet
once a month and talk aboutthose things.
This is where it's on us asHSPs to figure out what actually
is going to allow us to do ourbest work, whether that's how we
(25:49):
want other people tocommunicate with us, give us
feedback, what are ourboundaries around our work
hours, what type of work wereally enjoy doing, don't enjoy
doing?
How do we learn best?
What does it look like when weare at our best versus not at
our best?
All of those sorts of things,it can be really helpful to
(26:09):
think about.
And I call this puttingtogether a me manual.
So basically a manual of me.
You don't necessarily have toshare that and say to your boss,
here is here's exactly all ofmy demands and everything I
want.
But think of it as aconversation starter for that.
And it can be really helpful tothen ask your manager if I have
(26:34):
a question I need to ask ofyou, what's the best way to do
that?
Do you prefer email?
Do you want me to pick up thephone?
Should I text you?
Those little things can go sofar to number one, teaching
people how to treat you becausewe do that through our behavior,
but also taking away so muchsecond guessing from I don't
(26:57):
understand why this person isbeing so short with me.
Why every time I email them,they only send me back one
second.
They don't even say hi, how areyou?
And understanding that may justbe somebody else's style.
Whereas you as an HSP may havea higher preference and drive
for context and connecting withsomeone before you get into the
(27:20):
business of things.
And so it can just take away somuch of the taking things
personally or reading intosituations.
April Snow (27:29):
You're highlighting again that there's an equalness
here, equality here.
It's a reciprocity.
It's not me coming in with mydemands.
This is what I need to work,which is you also want to bring
some of that, but also asking,how do you work best?
How can we collaborate here?
How can we support each other?
What do you do when someone isshort on an email and you like
(27:53):
context and there's maybe adifferent style?
Can we navigate that?
Is that workable?
Absolutely.
Melody Wilding (28:01):
Yeah.
It depends on this thesituation, of course, always,
but absolutely.
And I should also add to thatthat as sensitive people, we may
have to flex our style here andthere to get people to hear us
more.
And so when you think aboutsomeone that tends to be a
shorter, more concise, maybedominant communicator, you as an
(28:24):
HSP may need to adjust a littlebit to lead with your bottom
line instead of saying, Here'show we got to this decision.
Here's the people I consulted,here's the history of this.
You lead with this is myrequest for you.
Are you able to do this?
And then from there, you couldsay, What other information do
(28:46):
you need?
And then you can get into allof the particulars.
And so I think it's just it'sabout knowing who you're dealing
with and how to speak with themso that you get what you need
out of the exchange.
April Snow (29:01):
That you're stacking the request slowly and
introducing new levels.
This is the first step, here'swhat I need, and then what do
you need?
And then we're building fromthere, slowly letting more of
that me manual content out ontothe page.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
Exactly.
And that's how allrelationships are right.
The best relationships arethey're reciprocal, there's
(29:24):
compromise.
We're working collaborativelytogether.
It's not one-sided.
So we're bringing that sameconcept to work.
And let's say someone strugglesto put themselves into the
picture at all, right?
You're letting that empathy,that guilt, that uh
perfectionism, the tendency tooverperform drive you.
(29:45):
How can you manage that to andnot slip into burnout?
How can we allow more of ourneeds to show up and less of the
guilt driving the show?
Melody Wilding (29:56):
Yeah.
April Snow (29:57):
How do we do that?
Melody Wilding (29:58):
Yeah, there's uh a chapter in the book where I
talk about setting boundaries,and one of the tools for that is
what I call the four feelingstest using our emotions as data.
And I'll just focus in on oneof the four feelings that's most
important, which is resentment.
Resentment is a very strong.
(30:20):
Emotional signal that you havelet a situation go on for too
long, or you feel undervalued oroverlooked.
And that is a very sure signthat you need to start setting
some limits, have a hardconversation, start saying no.
And I say that because manytimes I work with so many people
(30:41):
that don't even know where tostart.
They feel so overwhelmed andburned out that they can't even
prioritize what needs to comeoff their plate or what needs to
change.
And so use your emotions as asignal to help you prioritize
what needs my attention themost.
So you may feel resentful.
I see this all the time, wherepeople will have said to a
(31:05):
colleague, sure, I can help youwith that.
Yep, I can sit in on thatcommittee, or yep, I can pitch
in with that project.
And it's now six months, a yearlater.
And every time you see an emailcome in for that, your blood
just boils.
That is a very good time sign,rather, that it's time to reset
the dynamics to say, when Iinitially agreed to this, I had
(31:29):
the bandwidth.
The situation has changed.
So I'd love to work with you tocreate a plan so I can
transition off of this withinthe next four weeks because
these other projects need myattention.
So really starting with that, Ithink is a great place.
And just building on that,there's one technique I love.
(31:49):
We use this all the time in mycoaching programs, which is the
positive no, which is a niceperson's way of saying no.
Basically, I can't do X, but Ican do Y.
So it's offering a reasonablealternative.
So at work, that may be I can'tget everything to you by the
(32:12):
15th, but I could by the 30th.
How does that sound?
It could be negotiating thetimeline, the scope.
It could be offering to help insome smaller capacity, but it's
looking for a workablecompromise because in the
workplace, you have to be a teamplayer, right?
(32:33):
But there's a line there.
You don't want to be a teamplayer to the point that you
hurt yourself.
So the positive no straddlesthat line of I want to pitch in
and help out, but I want to setsome limits about around how
that's done.
April Snow (32:51):
Right.
I love that.
Yeah, there's it's not a blackand white, there's room in the
middle, there's some gray.
If you do find yourself in aplace of I've taken on too much,
I've overcommitted, there's away to back out graciously.
I'm just saying, things havechanged.
I love that permission.
You know, you don't have tokeep pushing through and and
(33:12):
maybe risk burning yourself outor feeling sick or resentful and
dreading every time you have togo to work or address a certain
project or a team member.
You can say, you know what,something's changed.
And I and it's I think it'sbeneficial to both parties to be
honest about that.
You're not gonna do your bestwork, you may harm the
relationship in the long run,and that there's other ways to
(33:36):
say yes, the positive no,compromise.
I can't do this, but I can dothis instead.
I think that makes it a loteasier, and we don't have to
fully commit, maybe we partiallycommit.
And sometimes we may just needto say no.
Melody Wilding (33:50):
That's right, that's right.
And like you said, how can yousay no in a way that's in
integrity where people respondto how we show up?
And so if you show up veryapologetically and say, Oh my
gosh, I'm so sorry.
And the the other personresponds to that.
But if you show up withstrength and say, Thank you so
(34:13):
much for thinking of me.
Unfortunately, this isn'tsomething I can fit in.
Can I refer you to a colleague?
Or can we look at another way Imay be able to support on this?
Um, this isn't something I canfit in.
I have project A on my plate.
I hear that project B isimportant.
What would you like me todeprioritize?
(34:34):
That's such a more groundedcoming from a position of
strength that people respect andyou will most importantly that
you'll feel better about.
April Snow (34:44):
Exactly.
It is a position of strength tobe honest about what capacity
you have and what you cansuccessfully complete.
I think everyone will respectthat information.
Yeah.
Melody Wilding (34:56):
I have worked with so many sensitive strivers
over the years that that come tome after receiving performance
review feedback or after notgetting a promotion or a big
project precisely because theyare told we don't think you know
how to prioritize, or we seeyou taking on so much, we're not
(35:17):
sure if you can handle more.
And so I just offer that foranyone out there who feels like
I'm trying to do all the things.
I raise my hand for everything.
And again, we're taught on aroll hangover, we're taught work
really hard and you'll getnoticed and rewarded.
But ironically, the higher yourise, the more you go in your
(35:40):
career, being able to say no,again, strategically and
selectively, actually shows yourleadership qualities more than
just indiscriminately sayingyes.
April Snow (35:52):
It's true.
Discernment is the truestrength.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's about quality of work,not quantity of work that's
going to drive the needleforward.
I think there is thatmisconception that we need to do
everything.
We need to show up everywhere.
And that really dilutes what wehave to offer.
Yeah.
So if there's one message youcan leave listeners with who
(36:12):
highly sensitive, potentiallysensitive strivers, who may be
struggling with work and wantingto implement some of these
ideas, what message would youleave them with?
Melody Wilding (36:20):
I'll go back to that phrase, you teach people
how to treat you.
Yes.
Because it's so central.
And if you think about it,we're all teaching people how to
treat us every day.
If we are constantly respondingto messages at all hours of the
day, you teach people thatyou're always available, right?
(36:41):
Or if you're alwaysvolunteering or changing your
schedule to accommodate otherpeople, you teach people that
you are willing to do that andthat your time may not be that
important.
So think about that.
Of course, relationships arealways two-way streets, but you
have more control than you thinkto shape what's happening
(37:04):
around you.
And I think that's importantfor HSPs and sensitive strivers
to hear because we often feel atthe whim of everything that's
happening around us.
We often feel, because we'remore sensitive, that we can't
handle these situations.
We can't handle the stress.
We can't handle the demands.
But you can, again, if you aretaking care of yourself and
(37:28):
treating yourself in the rightway.
April Snow (37:30):
I love that takeaway.
You have more control than youthink.
Coming back again to thattrusting yourself, trusting what
you have to offer and beingdiscerning about what you commit
to and just checking out,making sure you're finding some
balance there.
That so, Melly, I want to thankyou so much for this
conversation.
So many amazing takeaways andso much more to dive into.
(37:52):
I know that you offer a freechapter of your book, Trust
Yourself, that I will include inthe show notes for folks along
with your website and socialmedia.
Could you tell folks just afew?
We mentioned it a bit, butcould you tell folks a little
bit more about the book?
Yeah, and thank you so much forhaving me.
Melody Wilding (38:07):
This has been a lot of fun.
It's been great.
Yeah.
Trust yourself is really theculmination of my over decade of
coaching.
I really wanted to givesensitive strivers a roadmap to
being able to turn theirsensitivity from something that
feels like a liability in theircareers specifically to
(38:27):
something that feels like anasset and that is an asset.
So it is very practical.
It's very tactical.
There's lots of exercises andscripts and worksheets in inside
of the book.
So if you are someone thatrelates to that intersection of
high sensitivity andachievement, then it really is a
(38:47):
roadmap for overcomingoverthinking, not people
pleasing, getting out ofperfectionism, so much more.
April Snow (38:55):
It truly is a roadmap.
I agree.
It's just for me, it wasgroundbreaking because there's
no other book like it and onethat was really needed for the
HSP community.
So definitely recommend.
Thank you for that, Melody.
Melody Wilding (39:07):
That means the world coming from you.
So thank you.
Thank you.
April Snow (39:19):
Thanks so much for joining me and Melody for
today's conversation.
What I hope you're taking awayis that honoring your needs at
work is more possible than youthink, and that your instincts
are valuable and need to beheard.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories Podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(39:40):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated.
For behind the scenes contentand more HSB resources, you can
sign up for my email list orfollow Sensitive Strengths on
Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestories.com for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
You have more control than you think to shape
what's happening around you.
And I think that's importantfor HSPs and sensitive strivers
to hear because we often feel atthe whim of everything that's
happening around us.
We often feel because we'remore sensitive that we can't
handle these situations.
(00:41):
We can't handle the stress.
We can't handle the demands.
But you can if you are takingcare of yourself and treating
yourself in the right way.
April Snow (00:57):
Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the
people who live with hearts andeyes wide open.
I'm your host, psychotherapistand author April Snow.
I invite you to join me as Ideep dive into rich
conversations with fellow highlysensitive people that will
inspire you to live a morefulfilling life as an HSP
(01:19):
without all the overwhelm.
In this episode, I talk withMelody Walleting about how
perfectionism contributes toburnout at work, how setting
boundaries and honoring yoursensitive needs actually
benefits everyone, and learningto trust yourself and speak up
at work when you're a few stepsahead.
Melody is the best-sellingauthor of Trust Yourself: Stop
(01:41):
Overthinking and Channel YourEmotions for Success at Work.
Named one of Business Insider'smost innovative coaches for her
groundbreaking work onsensitive drivers, her clients
include CEOs, C-levelexecutives, and managers at top
Fortune 500 companies such asGoogle, Amazon, and JP Morgan.
Melody has been featured in theNew York Times and the Wall
(02:04):
Street Journal and is acontributor to the Harvard
Business Review, Fast Company,Psychology Today, and Forbes.
Melody is a licensed socialworker with a master's from
Columbia University and aprofessor of human behavior at
Hunter College.
For more HSP resources and tosee behind-the-scenes video from
the podcast, join me onInstagram, TikTok, or YouTube at
(02:26):
Sensitive Strengths, or sign upfor my email list.
Links are in the show notes andat sensitivestories.com.
And just a reminder that thisepisode is for educational
purposes only and is notintended as a substitute for
treatment with a mental healthor medical professional.
Let's dive in.
Melody Wilding (03:19):
And most of all, it was very reassuring and it
was very relieving to know thatnothing was wrong with me.
I wasn't broken or somehowdefective.
And also that I wasn't alonebecause I think I felt like I
was the only person whostruggled with some of the
(03:40):
things I struggled with.
And so it was really nice toknow that I was not alone.
And I think the overall feelingwas it actually allowed me to
be much more objective aboutchallenges I faced, even
strengths that I had, because Irealized this is part of my
(04:00):
biology.
It's part of how I'm wired.
It just is.
It is just a fact that isneutral.
And having that self-knowledgejust changed so much about how I
could manage myself, my day,the types of environments I put
myself in.
Yeah, I think it also led to alevel of acceptance too.
(04:22):
Again, that I didn't have thislevel of shame over everything.
April Snow (04:26):
It is neutral, isn't it?
It is a fact that we have thistrait and it comes with certain
qualities and gifts and thingsto offer.
I'm wondering, would you mindsharing one of those gifts that
you've noticed over the yearsthat you bring to the table?
Yeah.
Melody Wilding (04:44):
I am very intuitive.
So I think the idea of beingvery aware of the environment,
changes in people's bodylanguage or different dynamics.
I'm the person where we couldgo out to dinner with a bunch of
people and I could say,something was off.
And my husband will say, I haveno idea what you're talking
(05:05):
about.
And then a few weeks or monthslater, oh, that person is
leaving their job or what haveyou.
Something comes up where it'slike, see, I knew something was
up there.
So just being able to sensethose shifts in the environment
has been incredibly helpful.
And again, something that Ithought everyone can do this.
(05:27):
Yes.
But what I've learned over timeis often the things that come
easy to us, those are ourstrengths, those are our gifts,
yet they're the very thing wediscount as unimportant.
April Snow (05:40):
Exactly.
It's true.
I hear this from so manyclients that I work with.
I've had this my experiencemyself, where we assume our
experience is the universalexperience, which makes sense.
It's the only experience thatwe know.
But if we look closer,especially for sensitive, we all
have different gifts andstrengths, but for sensitive
people, we bring a certainquality to the table.
(06:01):
And intuition is a big one,right?
Being able to sense somethingin a room and not knowing maybe
why you know it, but you knowit, it's true.
And it can be difficult totrust that, to believe it when,
like you said, when othersaround you, like your husband,
are not picking up on it.
(06:21):
So how do you lean in and say,I know this is truth for me?
I know I can trust myintuition.
How do you yeah, how have youbeen able to do that?
Melody Wilding (06:31):
Yeah, it's such a great question because it's
very ethereal, right?
Intuition is not, andespecially when you hear the
word intuition, it's been usedoften in a very mystical
context.
But in psychological terms,intuition is really just the
collection of all of yourexperiences and the data you've
(06:54):
taken in.
And as more sensitive people,we're not only scanning the
environment and taking in morebits of information, we're also
processing that more deeply.
Yes.
And so thinking about it thatway, that this is not some
magical quality I have, but it'sreally a strength of being able
to tap into, synthesize, makeconnections and conclusions out
(07:20):
of my past experiences, that hasmade it so much more concrete
for me and a strength where nowI can lean into it and know
based on my experience, there'sbeen a pattern here in the past.
Does that mean every situationis going to be like that?
No, but it helps me predict.
(07:41):
And also, especially as a coachin this line of work, being
able to sense what's going onfor people, to read between the
lines or notice someone's toneof voice shifts when they start
talking about a subject.
Being able to sense, like,there's something going on here,
and actually speak to that andsay, Hey, I noticed when you
(08:06):
talked about this aspect of yourjob, your voice got really
flat.
What's going on with that?
And that could unlock a hugeaha for someone to say, Oh, I
never realized that before.
And so just having the enoughcourage to do that over time and
have it go well again gives meconfidence in that, you know
(08:27):
what?
If I try it and I put somethinglike that out there, what is
the worst that could happen?
The person says, No, actually,your perception is not right.
But nine times out of 10, itjust adds so much to my
relationships, my work, whetherit's personal or it's
professional.
April Snow (08:44):
Absolutely.
There's two opportunitiesthere.
One is to help the persondeepen their own insights about
themselves, being a mirror forthem.
Or two, it allows you tounderstand them more and let
them explain, process their ownexperience, inform you of that
experience.
So for me, it's open eitherway, whether you get it right or
(09:05):
wrong, there's still adeepening and a knowing.
I love that.
And I appreciate that you saidintuition is also often
objective based on data, notalways, but when it's true.
And we can lean into that andrecognizing when that intuition
is correct and recognizing howoften we get it right and not
(09:26):
dismissing that.
Oh, so good.
Melody Wilding (09:28):
Yeah.
And when I talk about this withmy clients, we also we often
talk about it as the skill ofdiscernment.
Yes.
And discernment is making senseof a situation and most of the
time figuring out what's truthhere or what's right for me in
this situation.
And there's a reason my book iscalled Trust Yourself.
(09:51):
Trust yourself.
I was just thinking back.
Perfect.
Yeah.
And it's because many timeswith sensitive people, we've had
our experiences invalidated ourentire lives.
Stop being so sensitive.
You're taking things toopersonally, aka your perception
of the world is not right.
Look at it a different way.
That it really is a muscle todiscern what do I want in this
(10:15):
situation?
What am I feeling?
What do I think is right here?
Is really a muscle you need torebuild and practice.
April Snow (10:24):
Yes, exactly.
It is all about learning totrust yourself.
And it does take practice, ittakes time to unravel those
messages.
You're too sensitive, you'renot enough of this or that.
Yeah.
And it's possible to do that.
Yeah.
So I know another label oranother way you identify as a
sensitive striver, which I lovethis term.
It's one I identify withmyself.
(10:45):
It's one you've coined duringyour work with your coaching.
Can you describe what thatmeans for folks who aren't
familiar?
Melody Wilding (10:52):
Yes.
The simplest way to describe itis a sensitive striver is
someone who is highly sensitiveand add on the high achieving
piece.
High achieving doesn'tnecessarily mean you're in the
C-suite, you're you're gunningto climb the corporate ladder.
High achieving means you arevery driven.
(11:13):
You set a lot of goals foryourself.
You may have big goals andambitions for your career.
But it's really what I havefound is many highly sensitive
people are also very gifted,right?
Very highly intelligent.
And that drive, that level ofinner drive can come with
tremendous strengths.
(11:34):
But again, must much like allof our traits, there's a flip
side to it if we are not able torecognize it or we don't have
the tools, or we're not able tomanage it correctly.
So sensitive strivers tend to,again, they have the high
sensitivity aspect where theyfeel and think things deeply,
but they may also struggle withwhat I call the honor roll
(11:57):
hangover, which is the A plusgold star student mentality of I
have to get all the A pluses, Ihave to be the rule follower,
the good boy or girl.
And so there's a mix of peoplepleasing in there as well.
Perfectionism also tends tocome into play a lot.
Overfunctioning, where you aretaking on more responsibility
(12:20):
than is yours.
So again, it's the plus sidesand downsides.
April Snow (12:24):
I know a lot of HSPs do overperform, overfunction,
whether it's at work or in theirfamily life and their
relationships and every aspectof their life.
Um wanting to, I think, bufferagainst a lot of that criticism
we've faced throughout our livesin different ways.
And you talked about there's alot of gifts to being a
sensitive striver.
(12:45):
I'm wondering if you couldspeak to for those HSPs who
think and feel so deeply andoften forget that value that
they bring at work.
Could you speak to what some ofthose gifts are?
Melody Wilding (12:56):
Yeah.
And I'm sure you've come acrossthis stat, which is that
managers tend to rate people whoare more sensitive as their top
performers.
And it's precisely for a lot ofthe reasons we're talking
about.
Sensitive people tend toironically be great at things
like sales and marketing becausethey understand other people's
(13:20):
needs.
They're very highly empatheticand they can connect with other
people.
We tend to be conscientious andthoughtful.
I think a lot of sensitivepeople would label themselves as
risk averse when in fact wetend to be strategic risk
takers.
We tend to be thoughtful,right, and considerate about the
what are the upsides or thedownsides here.
(13:42):
Let's make the best choicepossible.
We also tend to be verydiplomatic communicators because
we're considering what's theimpact of our statements before
we say them.
And we're often not the peoplein the workplace who are
speaking just to be heard.
We are speaking to add valueand to add nuance to a
(14:05):
conversation.
I think one thing I've alsoseen too is that sensitive
strivers tend to be the peoplethat see problems or see
opportunities a bit earlier thanothers.
Yes.
Which sometimes they may secondguess themselves because
they'll say, I see this, but noone else does.
Why isn't anybody else sayingsomething?
(14:26):
And it's often because you'reone or two steps ahead.
And so when people tell methat, again, that's another
aspect to lean into that youhave that unique perspective to
speak up about.
So don't always second guessyourself on those things.
April Snow (14:41):
It goes back to trusting your intuition,
remembering all the times whereyou did see something one or two
steps ahead to help you maybegather the strength or the
bravery to speak up.
Because I know I get asked thisquestion a lot is how can I
speak up more in meetings?
How can I allow my voice totake up space at work when
(15:01):
others aren't seeing things theway that I see them?
I wonder if you have anythoughts on that.
I'm sure that's somethingyou've dealt with in your
coaching.
All the time.
Melody Wilding (15:10):
Yes, all the time.
A couple of things.
I think speaking up in meetingsactually happens way before you
even get into the conferenceroom or join the Zoom call.
Okay.
And for us as sensitive peoplein April, you can tell me if
this has been your experiencetoo.
But I find we need to feel alevel of comfort and safety with
(15:33):
the people around us.
Definitely.
And yeah.
And if we don't feel that, oreven if we don't feel we have
enough context on the people inthe room, the situation, we're
more hesitant to speak up.
Yes.
And so getting to know thepeople in the room, whether many
times a lot of folks that Iwork with, probably you work
(15:54):
with, work in very matrixed,cross-functional environments.
They may be in rooms withpeople that are in levels of
positional power above them orthat they've only met on Zoom a
few times.
So actually being intentionalabout building those
relationships, getting to knowpeople through 20-minute coffee
(16:14):
chats.
Or if you do have to, let'ssay, bring a decision or you
need to present something topeople in the room, having the
meeting before the meeting todebrief them on, hey, here's how
I'm planning to present this.
How does this land with you?
What questions do you have so Ican make sure I address them?
(16:35):
So you feel more confidentgoing into that.
And your mind doesn't spiraland fill in the gaps with all
negative perceptions of whatcould happen.
So getting comfortablebeforehand, so you feel more
comfortable speaking up in themoment, and as uncomfortable as
it can be, challenging yourselfto speak up early on.
(16:58):
So being one of the first, Iwould say first three, three to
five people to speak in themeeting.
And again, this isn't aboutjust talking for talking sake,
but it's about overcoming yourown fear because the longer the
meeting goes on, the more likelythat it is all the good ideas
(17:20):
will be out on the table.
You'll feel you'll convinceyourself people have checked
out.
I'm I shouldn't say anythingnow.
And the more your resistancewill build.
And so if you speak up earlyon, it builds your confidence
with saying something early.
And you don't have to saysomething groundbreaking.
You can ask a thoughtfulquestion.
(17:41):
You can build on what somebodyelse has said.
John, that was a great idea.
Something else I considered isXYZ.
So there's something herearound letting go of the
perfectionistic idea that it hasto be this breakthrough share
that nobody else has everconsidered or thought of.
Take that off, but you get usedto using your voice and get
(18:05):
other people used to hearingyour voice as well.
April Snow (18:08):
Exactly.
You can be the connector attimes, the mirror at times, just
to help bolster thisconversation.
I appreciate that permission toallow it to be imperfect and
also to support yoursensitivity.
We're great at buildingrelationships with HSPs.
And that's something we can doone-to-one in shorter bursts.
(18:29):
You said those 20 to 30 minutecoffee breaks or chats.
And then preparing ahead oftime is so crucial.
So your nervous system isfamiliar with what might happen.
I know Dr.
Aaron talks about this a lot.
Get in the room if you canbefore you have a presentation.
Familiarize yourself with theperson that you're going to be
talking with.
Go to the restaurant ahead oftime if you have an important
(18:50):
dinner.
How can you take away as manyunknowns as possible?
So important.
And this can all you can dothis all in the workplace.
Melody Wilding (18:59):
Yeah.
And if I could add to that, soplease exciting.
Yeah, I love the point abouttry to make it as real as
possible.
That's something.
So I do a lot of speaking, andsomething I've started requiring
when I speak in person is thatI have the ability to get in the
room at least two hours, if notthe day before the event,
(19:21):
because I've had too manysituations where my first time
seeing the stage, seeing how bigit is, where the screen is 15
minutes before I have to give mytalk.
And that just sends, to yourpoint, the unpredictability just
sends my level of stimulationthrough the roof.
And then I can't show up in thebest way.
So that's a great example ofunderstanding your wiring, being
(19:45):
able to ask for what you need,which is a perfectly reasonable
request.
And one other thing I'll add tothe suggestion of try to settle
into the room, lowering yourlevel of stimulation before you
get into these types ofsituations.
Yes.
So you everyone is very busy.
We're all stressed out, HSPsand sensitive strivers more and
(20:09):
if you go into a meeting andyour level of stimulation is
already at an eight or a nineout of 10, any little situation
is going to send you into thatreally debilitating fight or
flight state.
Yes.
And so if it's five deep bellybreaths, I have some clients who
(20:29):
create a pre-meeting protocolwhere, okay, I have my notes, I
have my water, I've checked Ihave the right Zoom link, I've
had a bio break.
And that's their warm-up ritualthat calms them down, gets them
in the zone.
And then one other verypractical thing is try not to
have back to back to back toback to back meetings.
(20:51):
I know that is easier said thandone.
But if you have the ability toeven take one-hour meetings,
make those 50 minutes or 55minutes.
So you have just that littlebit of buffer where you can
catch up on emails, you can takea breath.
And you and I know from beingtherapists for so long that
(21:15):
there's a reason our sessionsare 50 minutes.
April Snow (21:17):
Yeah, or 45 minutes, exactly.
Melody Wilding (21:20):
So we have a little space in between.
And I've just found that hasmade that just small little
shift has made such a hugedifference for so many people I
work with.
April Snow (21:30):
It's true.
Like you said, work with yourwiring, know your nervous
system.
It's going to be more impactedby stimuli and input.
And I think this is the thingthat people don't realize, and
my clients are always reallyastounded by.
It just takes a little, right?
That differentialsusceptibility where we are more
impacted by the positives.
(21:50):
Five, 10 minutes makes a bigdifference.
It doesn't sound like a lot,but it can be groundbreaking
when you have that throughoutyour day.
Just to take a moment todecompress, to check in so
you're not worrying about whatemails have come in during that
last meeting or the you know,the three back-to-back meetings.
Yeah.
What little tweaks can youmake?
(22:10):
So important.
I love that.
Melody Wilding (22:13):
Can I can I add one thing to that?
Please too.
Yeah, please do.
Which is yeah, yes, literally,physiologically, it makes a huge
difference.
April Snow (22:21):
Yes.
Melody Wilding (22:22):
And I think also psychologically and
emotionally, it's a very strongsignal to yourself that you
matter, right?
I respect myself enough to dothese things.
And I always like to tell myclients that self-trust is built
by the promises you keep toyourself.
(22:42):
Because again, all of us aremany sensitive strivers or HSPs.
We will put everyone else'sneeds ahead of our own, which
sends the signal to yourselfthat I'm not important.
Everybody else is moreimportant than me.
And it's not necessarily, Ilike to say, you don't need to,
you don't need to prioritizeyour needs over others, but you
(23:06):
don't need to necessarily putyourself first.
You need to make yourself equalto other people.
At least give yourself thatyour needs are just as important
as other people's.
And you need to send your thatsignal to yourself as well.
April Snow (23:20):
We often do put ourselves at the bottom of the
list, and then theperfectionism, the guilt takes
control, and then we'reconstantly feeling
overstimulated, even burnt out,which has a very significant
impact on the way we're able towork.
So yeah, how can we signal toourselves it's okay to put
yourself on an equal plane?
(23:41):
And I think that's the worry iswe often think, oh, I'm putting
myself ahead, and that makes usuncomfortable a lot of times as
HSPs, but we're just puttingourselves at the same level.
That's it.
That's what we're doing.
Exactly.
Melody Wilding (23:53):
Yes, exactly.
It's not about superiority.
April Snow (23:56):
That's right.
It's just about getting ourneeds met.
So, how do we do that?
So, when we're you said a lotof supervisors, managers will
rate their HSP employees thehighest, which makes sense.
We're bringing a lot to thetable.
How do we communicate our needsand these gifts to the people
that manage us if we're notyeah?
Melody Wilding (24:19):
I am a huge advocate of having what I call
the styles conversation, whichis with your manager, the other
key people you work with, havinga conversation about how you
work, you and them.
So you have the opportunity toshare.
I'm speaking me personally asMelody that I'm the type of
(24:45):
person.
If April, before we met today,you sent me the questions.
Thank you.
That is that is the most I canask.
I like to show up prepared.
I like to know what I'm walkinginto.
And so if someone is able tocommunicate with their boss
wherever possible, I like to beable to show up and make sure
I'm making my best contribution.
(25:06):
And to help with that, havingthe agenda or having questions I
can prepare, or even justthought starters is really
helpful for me.
All the way to things like whenin terms of feedback, if you
ever have to give me feedback,it helps me if you could start
by telling me what's going rightbefore we get into what could
be better.
(25:26):
Or I have some people that willsay, I don't mind if you grab
me at the end of a meeting andgive me some feedback then.
Whereas other people would say,I would actually prefer to meet
once a month and talk aboutthose things.
This is where it's on us asHSPs to figure out what actually
is going to allow us to do ourbest work, whether that's how we
(25:49):
want other people tocommunicate with us, give us
feedback, what are ourboundaries around our work
hours, what type of work wereally enjoy doing, don't enjoy
doing?
How do we learn best?
What does it look like when weare at our best versus not at
our best?
All of those sorts of things,it can be really helpful to
(26:09):
think about.
And I call this puttingtogether a me manual.
So basically a manual of me.
You don't necessarily have toshare that and say to your boss,
here is here's exactly all ofmy demands and everything I
want.
But think of it as aconversation starter for that.
And it can be really helpful tothen ask your manager if I have
(26:34):
a question I need to ask ofyou, what's the best way to do
that?
Do you prefer email?
Do you want me to pick up thephone?
Should I text you?
Those little things can go sofar to number one, teaching
people how to treat you becausewe do that through our behavior,
but also taking away so muchsecond guessing from I don't
(26:57):
understand why this person isbeing so short with me.
Why every time I email them,they only send me back one
second.
They don't even say hi, how areyou?
And understanding that may justbe somebody else's style.
Whereas you as an HSP may havea higher preference and drive
for context and connecting withsomeone before you get into the
(27:20):
business of things.
And so it can just take away somuch of the taking things
personally or reading intosituations.
April Snow (27:29):
You're highlighting again that there's an equalness
here, equality here.
It's a reciprocity.
It's not me coming in with mydemands.
This is what I need to work,which is you also want to bring
some of that, but also asking,how do you work best?
How can we collaborate here?
How can we support each other?
What do you do when someone isshort on an email and you like
(27:53):
context and there's maybe adifferent style?
Can we navigate that?
Is that workable?
Absolutely.
Melody Wilding (28:01):
Yeah.
It depends on this thesituation, of course, always,
but absolutely.
And I should also add to thatthat as sensitive people, we may
have to flex our style here andthere to get people to hear us
more.
And so when you think aboutsomeone that tends to be a
shorter, more concise, maybedominant communicator, you as an
(28:24):
HSP may need to adjust a littlebit to lead with your bottom
line instead of saying, Here'show we got to this decision.
Here's the people I consulted,here's the history of this.
You lead with this is myrequest for you.
Are you able to do this?
And then from there, you couldsay, What other information do
(28:46):
you need?
And then you can get into allof the particulars.
And so I think it's just it'sabout knowing who you're dealing
with and how to speak with themso that you get what you need
out of the exchange.
April Snow (29:01):
That you're stacking the request slowly and
introducing new levels.
This is the first step, here'swhat I need, and then what do
you need?
And then we're building fromthere, slowly letting more of
that me manual content out ontothe page.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
Exactly.
And that's how allrelationships are right.
The best relationships arethey're reciprocal, there's
(29:24):
compromise.
We're working collaborativelytogether.
It's not one-sided.
So we're bringing that sameconcept to work.
And let's say someone strugglesto put themselves into the
picture at all, right?
You're letting that empathy,that guilt, that uh
perfectionism, the tendency tooverperform drive you.
(29:45):
How can you manage that to andnot slip into burnout?
How can we allow more of ourneeds to show up and less of the
guilt driving the show?
Melody Wilding (29:56):
Yeah.
April Snow (29:57):
How do we do that?
Melody Wilding (29:58):
Yeah, there's uh a chapter in the book where I
talk about setting boundaries,and one of the tools for that is
what I call the four feelingstest using our emotions as data.
And I'll just focus in on oneof the four feelings that's most
important, which is resentment.
Resentment is a very strong.
(30:20):
Emotional signal that you havelet a situation go on for too
long, or you feel undervalued oroverlooked.
And that is a very sure signthat you need to start setting
some limits, have a hardconversation, start saying no.
And I say that because manytimes I work with so many people
(30:41):
that don't even know where tostart.
They feel so overwhelmed andburned out that they can't even
prioritize what needs to comeoff their plate or what needs to
change.
And so use your emotions as asignal to help you prioritize
what needs my attention themost.
So you may feel resentful.
I see this all the time, wherepeople will have said to a
(31:05):
colleague, sure, I can help youwith that.
Yep, I can sit in on thatcommittee, or yep, I can pitch
in with that project.
And it's now six months, a yearlater.
And every time you see an emailcome in for that, your blood
just boils.
That is a very good time sign,rather, that it's time to reset
the dynamics to say, when Iinitially agreed to this, I had
(31:29):
the bandwidth.
The situation has changed.
So I'd love to work with you tocreate a plan so I can
transition off of this withinthe next four weeks because
these other projects need myattention.
So really starting with that, Ithink is a great place.
And just building on that,there's one technique I love.
(31:49):
We use this all the time in mycoaching programs, which is the
positive no, which is a niceperson's way of saying no.
Basically, I can't do X, but Ican do Y.
So it's offering a reasonablealternative.
So at work, that may be I can'tget everything to you by the
(32:12):
15th, but I could by the 30th.
How does that sound?
It could be negotiating thetimeline, the scope.
It could be offering to help insome smaller capacity, but it's
looking for a workablecompromise because in the
workplace, you have to be a teamplayer, right?
(32:33):
But there's a line there.
You don't want to be a teamplayer to the point that you
hurt yourself.
So the positive no straddlesthat line of I want to pitch in
and help out, but I want to setsome limits about around how
that's done.
April Snow (32:51):
Right.
I love that.
Yeah, there's it's not a blackand white, there's room in the
middle, there's some gray.
If you do find yourself in aplace of I've taken on too much,
I've overcommitted, there's away to back out graciously.
I'm just saying, things havechanged.
I love that permission.
You know, you don't have tokeep pushing through and and
(33:12):
maybe risk burning yourself outor feeling sick or resentful and
dreading every time you have togo to work or address a certain
project or a team member.
You can say, you know what,something's changed.
And I and it's I think it'sbeneficial to both parties to be
honest about that.
You're not gonna do your bestwork, you may harm the
relationship in the long run,and that there's other ways to
(33:36):
say yes, the positive no,compromise.
I can't do this, but I can dothis instead.
I think that makes it a loteasier, and we don't have to
fully commit, maybe we partiallycommit.
And sometimes we may just needto say no.
Melody Wilding (33:50):
That's right, that's right.
And like you said, how can yousay no in a way that's in
integrity where people respondto how we show up?
And so if you show up veryapologetically and say, Oh my
gosh, I'm so sorry.
And the the other personresponds to that.
But if you show up withstrength and say, Thank you so
(34:13):
much for thinking of me.
Unfortunately, this isn'tsomething I can fit in.
Can I refer you to a colleague?
Or can we look at another way Imay be able to support on this?
Um, this isn't something I canfit in.
I have project A on my plate.
I hear that project B isimportant.
What would you like me todeprioritize?
(34:34):
That's such a more groundedcoming from a position of
strength that people respect andyou will most importantly that
you'll feel better about.
April Snow (34:44):
Exactly.
It is a position of strength tobe honest about what capacity
you have and what you cansuccessfully complete.
I think everyone will respectthat information.
Yeah.
Melody Wilding (34:56):
I have worked with so many sensitive strivers
over the years that that come tome after receiving performance
review feedback or after notgetting a promotion or a big
project precisely because theyare told we don't think you know
how to prioritize, or we seeyou taking on so much, we're not
(35:17):
sure if you can handle more.
And so I just offer that foranyone out there who feels like
I'm trying to do all the things.
I raise my hand for everything.
And again, we're taught on aroll hangover, we're taught work
really hard and you'll getnoticed and rewarded.
But ironically, the higher yourise, the more you go in your
(35:40):
career, being able to say no,again, strategically and
selectively, actually shows yourleadership qualities more than
just indiscriminately sayingyes.
April Snow (35:52):
It's true.
Discernment is the truestrength.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's about quality of work,not quantity of work that's
going to drive the needleforward.
I think there is thatmisconception that we need to do
everything.
We need to show up everywhere.
And that really dilutes what wehave to offer.
Yeah.
So if there's one message youcan leave listeners with who
(36:12):
highly sensitive, potentiallysensitive strivers, who may be
struggling with work and wantingto implement some of these
ideas, what message would youleave them with?
Melody Wilding (36:20):
I'll go back to that phrase, you teach people
how to treat you.
Yes.
Because it's so central.
And if you think about it,we're all teaching people how to
treat us every day.
If we are constantly respondingto messages at all hours of the
day, you teach people thatyou're always available, right?
(36:41):
Or if you're alwaysvolunteering or changing your
schedule to accommodate otherpeople, you teach people that
you are willing to do that andthat your time may not be that
important.
So think about that.
Of course, relationships arealways two-way streets, but you
have more control than you thinkto shape what's happening
(37:04):
around you.
And I think that's importantfor HSPs and sensitive strivers
to hear because we often feel atthe whim of everything that's
happening around us.
We often feel, because we'remore sensitive, that we can't
handle these situations.
We can't handle the stress.
We can't handle the demands.
But you can, again, if you aretaking care of yourself and
(37:28):
treating yourself in the rightway.
April Snow (37:30):
I love that takeaway.
You have more control than youthink.
Coming back again to thattrusting yourself, trusting what
you have to offer and beingdiscerning about what you commit
to and just checking out,making sure you're finding some
balance there.
That so, Melly, I want to thankyou so much for this
conversation.
So many amazing takeaways andso much more to dive into.
(37:52):
I know that you offer a freechapter of your book, Trust
Yourself, that I will include inthe show notes for folks along
with your website and socialmedia.
Could you tell folks just afew?
We mentioned it a bit, butcould you tell folks a little
bit more about the book?
Yeah, and thank you so much forhaving me.
Melody Wilding (38:07):
This has been a lot of fun.
It's been great.
Yeah.
Trust yourself is really theculmination of my over decade of
coaching.
I really wanted to givesensitive strivers a roadmap to
being able to turn theirsensitivity from something that
feels like a liability in theircareers specifically to
(38:27):
something that feels like anasset and that is an asset.
So it is very practical.
It's very tactical.
There's lots of exercises andscripts and worksheets in inside
of the book.
So if you are someone thatrelates to that intersection of
high sensitivity andachievement, then it really is a
(38:47):
roadmap for overcomingoverthinking, not people
pleasing, getting out ofperfectionism, so much more.
April Snow (38:55):
It truly is a roadmap.
I agree.
It's just for me, it wasgroundbreaking because there's
no other book like it and onethat was really needed for the
HSP community.
So definitely recommend.
Thank you for that, Melody.
Melody Wilding (39:07):
That means the world coming from you.
So thank you.
Thank you.
April Snow (39:19):
Thanks so much for joining me and Melody for
today's conversation.
What I hope you're taking awayis that honoring your needs at
work is more possible than youthink, and that your instincts
are valuable and need to beheard.
If you enjoyed this episode,subscribe to the Sensitive
Stories Podcast so you don'tmiss our upcoming conversations.
(39:40):
Reviews and ratings are alsohelpful and appreciated.
For behind the scenes contentand more HSB resources, you can
sign up for my email list orfollow Sensitive Strengths on
Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Check out the show notes orsensitivestories.com for all the
resources from today's episode.
Thanks for listening.
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