A Special Marathon Episode for Your Long Run - with Cory Wharton-Malcolm and Austin Curtis - Set the Pace

Episode Transcript
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Cory Wharton-Malcolm (00:00):
Because I know what this running thing did for me,
it gave me cardio confidence. And that cardio confidence, is
that instills this belief in you, that because I can
get to the bottom of the road, because I can
accomplish anything that I set my mind to in the
running space, I can probably do anything outside of the
running space that I set my mind to.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Thank you, New York. Today we're reminded of the power
of community and the power of coming together. Athletes,
on your mark.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
The first woman to finish for the second straight year here
in the New York City Marathon is Miki Gorman, a
smiling Miki Gorman, and why not? 2

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Look at the emotion of Shalane Flanagan as she comes
to the line. Pointing to his chest, pointed to the
USA he so proudly wears across his chest. A great
day for Matt (inaudible) .

Rob Simmelkjaer (01:00):
Hey everybody, and welcome to a special long edition
of Set the Pace, the official podcast of New York
Road Runners, presented by Peloton. I'm your host, Rob Simmelkjaer,
the CEO of New York Road Runners. And with me,
my co- host and birthday girl this week, Peloton instructor,

(01:23):
Becs Gentry. Becs, happy birthday, belated. How are you?

Becs Gentry (01:27):
Thank you. I'm good. Year older, feeling a lot
wiser, and all of that joy. I had a wonderful
week, celebrate... Well, not week, I'm not the queen, but
a wonderful couple of days of celebration. Rodan, it was
my father- in- law's 70th birthday as well, so we
had a big family party this weekend for him. So,

(01:48):
it's been a lot of joy and good memories being made.

I love it. You're not getting any older, I don't care what
the calendar says. You keep doing what you do and
you're clearly aging in reverse. So, happy reverse birthday. Absolutely, yes.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

You're welcome, you're welcome. And Becs, we're going long today
with today's episode of Set the Pace. This is something
that was actually in response to a lot of requests
we've gotten from listeners who want a long episode to
go with the long run. And so, we know a
lot of folks right now are out there getting ready
for the Boston Marathon, the London Marathon, the spring

(02:30):
races that are coming up. And so this is really
for them and anybody who's training for a long, long
race, or if you're just in the car for a
long time or have a couple hours worth of errands
to run and you want some good running talk to
go along with you, we're going to go for about
two hours today. We got more than one great guest

(02:50):
and we're so excited. So, we'll get to all that in
just a second but this will be fun, I think,
for us to have some longer conversations and give folks
a chance to settle in for a while.

Absolutely, and we are so honored if you are taking
us out for that long run, we're honored that we
are here with you and we hope that you have some
fun with us over these miles and maybe some of
these conversations might shake out some nerves. There's definitely a
lot of tips and tricks and moments in these conversations,

(03:21):
all of the conversations, all of the guests that we
have on this long episode. So yeah, thanks for being
here with us, but we have a lot to
celebrate too, actually, Rob. We have a lot of fun
coming. I feel like once April kicks off, it is
truly spring and there's truly all of the magic starts

(03:46):
happening, and that kicks off for us next week.

April is so much fun at New York Road Runners
and in New York. We'll talk about the running for
a second, and then we'll talk about the podcast. Some
of my favorite races of our year are in
the month of April, because we do a lot of
these kind of four- mile runs and I love the four-
mile distance. So, this coming Sunday we've got the Run

(04:10):
as One four- miler in Central Park, which is always
one of my favorites. And I'm not quite sure why
Becs, but actually two years in a row, for me
personally, this race has been my best pace race for
New York Road Runners. Back- to- back years, it's been
my best pace. I don't know if I'll be able
to keep that streak going, but I've had two

(04:31):
straight years of really great days. I just love the course,
it's got a nice kind of downhill finish and you
love to run fast at the end. So that's coming
up. And then a week after that, we've got the
Retro Run, which has actually moved up from where it
usually sits in the middle of the summer, because we
switched our calendar a bit this year. So the Retro
Run where people are always invited to come and wear

(04:52):
kind of the old school clothes from the '70s and the '80s, and
we bring out some of the older New York Road
Runners stuff, the signage and the logos and we
have a lot of fun with that race. So, that'll
be the weekend after that. So, a lot of great
stuff happening in the month of April. We're also going
to have our women's half marathon later in the month,
that's now sponsored by our friends at Maybelline. So, just

(05:16):
a lot of great things coming up with Road Runners
in the month of April. And then Becs, you were
kind of alluding to it on the podcast front. We've
got a big anniversary coming up on April 8th. We
will have the 100th episode of Set The Pace.

Wow, wow.

I can't believe it. I mean, I'm sure for you
it's amazing, for me it's insane because I still think
back to the first kind of beginnings of this podcast, and
the meetings that we had at New York Road Runners
and the people who I said, " Let's do this so
we can have a different way of talking to our

(05:53):
members and to our audience," and we've had so many
great people involved in the podcast over that 100 episodes.
Matt Singer, who was kind of there at the
very beginning, our head of content at New York Road
Runners. Lou Pellegrino, who came in with the company that
his boss Spencer Brown works with, works for. Spencer was

(06:16):
the first guy I called to say, " Hey, can you
help us put a podcast together?" Spencer brought in Lou,
who's our phenomenal editor and puts this show together every
single week. Catherine Jones joined as our producer, and
then of course it was me and Meb for the beginning and
now it's me and you, Becs, with Meb still involved.
So, it feels like so much has happened in 100

(06:39):
episodes and it's been such a great ride. And we're
going to celebrate that 100th episode with a live episode
at the New York Public Theater, which-

Wow.

... Becs, if you know the history of the New York Public
Theater, it's an iconic place in New York. It's a
theater, we call it the Public, that's really a
New York institution since the 1950s, just like New York
Road Runners, and so many unbelievably successful shows have launched

(07:10):
there. Hair, A Chorus Line, and of course most recently,
Hamilton launched at the Public Theater. They've won 54 Tony
Awards, five Pulitzer Prizes.

What?

55 productions have gone on to Broadway from there.

Unreal.

And Set the Pace is going to be on the stage at
the public theater. It's bananas.

We'll be the 56th production that goes to Broadway.
I'm kidding.

Let's not get crazy.

I cannot wait. I love it when we have our
live shows. It is always so inspiring to meet our
listeners, to meet the runners, and just have this one- to-
one interaction with people. So, I cannot wait to see
everybody next Tuesday at this beautiful event.

I'm going to see if we can drag Lou Pellegrino
to show up in person for that episode and get
some of the people behind the scenes.

100% pick her, yes.

Matt and Catherine to actually stand up on stage-

On stage, yes.

... for a second.

They should.

Just so they can get some love for helping this
show get to where it is with 100 episodes. So
we'll work on that offline.

We'll work on that, yep.

But I think if you come to the Public theater, we're going
to make sure you meet some of the people behind
the show.

You might meet them.

But it's been so great. Thank you to everybody who's been listening
all this time and we hope you'll stay with us
for many episodes to come. And then Becs, we've
got another live episode happening on April 19th. For the
second year in a row, we're going to be recording,
Set the Pace live from the Citizens House of Blues
in Boston. This is our second year of doing this.

(08:42):
The Saturday before the Boston Marathon. That's going to be
a special member only event, and my guest host that
day will be ABC's Sam Ryan, who of course is
an amazing broadcaster, well- known to everybody in New York.
Her phenomenal job as a sports anchor for Eyewitness
News, and she's a regular host of the studio production

(09:06):
for our marathon and our other big races. So, so
excited to have Sam join us. And our guest for
that episode is going to be the incredible Ed Eyestone,
a two- time Olympian.

Wow.

Sometime broadcaster, and of course famously, coach to both Conner
Mantz and Clayton Young, out there in Utah. So, cannot
wait for that episode.

Cannot wait, I am so envious. I need to
get myself back up to Boston after, I haven't been
up for a couple of years. So, I'm going to
be tuning in and cannot wait to hear this wonderful
episode and cheer Sam and all the other runners on
at the race as well.

I can't wait to, I've got so many questions for Ed Eyestone,
in terms of how he's been able to do what he's done with Conner, with Clayton,
with this incredible pack of fast, fast runners out there
in Utah. It's really become a hotbed of running
in the United States, which isn't necessarily what you'd naturally
would think would happen in Utah. You think about skiing,

(10:08):
and you think about winter sports primarily in Utah. They're
going to have another Winter Olympics out there after having
one already, and suddenly it's a distance running mecca. So,
can't wait to talk to Ed about what is happening
out there with running in Utah and all these great
runners. So, that's going to be great. But today, as
I said, we're going long, a two- hour episode, as

(10:29):
folks get ready for Boston and London. So our
guest today, first coming off of a relay run from
Los Angeles to Las Vegas, is Apple Fitness Plus trainer
and running coach, as well as author, Cory Wharton- Malcolm.
And Becs, you and Cory go back a ways as our
listeners will hear, you guys worked together at Nike, and

(10:53):
I'm excited to have you guys reconnect because I know
you guys have a lot of things to talk about.

Oh yeah, you are all in store for a truly
magnificent conversation with Cory. He's one of a kind.

He is an incredible person, incredibly inspiring and just sums
up so many of the things we talk about when
it comes to running and the power of running. So, it's
a great conversation and Cory will join us in just
a minute. Then Becs, we're going to go back to
the in- family portion of our broadcast and check in
with your partner, Austin, as he prepares to run the

(11:29):
London Marathon, which we're excited about. And we're going
to see how Austin's feeling as he gets ready for London.

Absolutely, can't wait to hear about his whole journey to
this infamous race. And there might be a little surprise in
store for Austin as well, so stay tuned to find
out what that might be.

Maybe so, maybe so. Austin's got aspirations, for sure. That six-
star journey, we all want to get that six- star.
And then we've got a great member moment as well, as
we were going to keep it in the family, and
we mean the whole family. Sister and brother TFK members,
Teresita and Luis Gonzalez are going to join us to

(12:09):
talk about their training for both Boston and London, and
how with every finish line they cross, more of their
family members cross it with them. They're bringing the family
along for these runs. So we'll talk to them, look
forward to that. And then in keeping with our spring
marathon theme for today, today's Meb Minute is all about
traveling for your run. So, stay tuned for that.

Looking for new ways to keep you moving? Step
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Peloton app. Try a range of instructor- led workouts that
push your current routine to the next level and track
your progress in real- time metrics. Whether it's your first
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(12:50):
outdoor runs, strength for runners, to yoga and stretching to
choose from and support the runner you are. Try the
app for free for 30 days. Download it now
from the App Store or Google Play. Terms apply. All
Access membership not included. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner
for New York Road Runners. Cory Wharton- Malcolm is a London-

(13:12):
born running coach, whose journey began with a very simple
goal, just get to the end of the street. Since
completing his first marathon back in 2007, he's gone on
to coach thousands of runners with Apple Fitness Plus, and
his own community, Track Mafia. Known for blending music,
humor and honesty, Cory brings joy and inclusivity to a

(13:36):
sport that can often feel very intimidating. His book came
out in 2024, All You Need is Rhythm and Grit.
And it captures his philosophy that running is for everybody
and every mind. Today, I am so excited that he
is here to talk long runs, great vibes and why
just getting to the bottom of the road is still

(13:58):
his go- to mindset.

Cory, it is great to have you here on
Set the Pace. Welcome.

Thank you, Rob. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm very happy to be here. A
little bit sleepy but overjoyed.

Yeah, the sleep thing. So you were telling us before
we started, and by the way, I'm happy to reunite
you and Becs. I know you guys go back a long way.

Big side note.

Yeah, your days together at Nike.

Pretty much everything we talk about today, we'll be like, "
Oh yeah, we did that, but 10 years ago. Oh yeah, Cory and I did that, 10 years
ago." Yeah, yep, yep, yes.

Yeah, that's right. Becs and Cory were colleagues for a long time
at Nike Run Club, so we'll talk about that at
some point. But so I'm going to stay out of the way for
the most part so you guys can catch up on
this podcast.

Perfect.

But I just want to start with the sleep thing.
So Cory, you just did an incredible thing, participating in
this run from Los Angeles to Vegas.

Yes.

Is that why you haven't slept or what's going on?
Why haven't you slept at all?

Yeah, so you are 100% correct, Rob. I did a
run from Santa Monica to the Welcome to Las Vegas
sign, with some wonderful friends, family and teammates. And you
start off at 4
Vegas when you get to Vegas. So, we were a
mixed team, some incredibly fast people, some incredibly easy running

(15:19):
people, so the team was balanced. So it took us
50 hours and I'm overjoyed with it because when I did
it last time, I think it took us 52 or 54 hours.
But you just run, just run and run and
run, and then when you can't run anymore, you have
a nap, your teammate tags you in. So, I think

(15:41):
I ran about 50K or so, really slow on a
bum hamstring, and I'm happy. But every night I think
I got two hours sleep on the Thursday night, because you
have to meet at 4
I picked up a little bit of sleep, and the same
on Sunday. And then because we arrived in Vegas

(16:03):
at 6
check into your hotel, have an hour sleep, and then
go to the pool party. And then I ended up
just partying all the way through till, I think 4

Oh, boy.

As one does in Vegas. That's why you were running
there, isn't it? So, kind of understandable.

Of course, but yeah.

Dude, I have done this thing multiple times, as Cory
has. Cory did it back in, I think 2017 was your first
time doing it?

Yes, yes.

Back with Run Dem, and Track Mafia. Well, this is your first time doing it with a
full Track Mafia team though this year?

Yes, so that's why it felt even more special than
it has done previously, because yep, everyone is my family,
but this is the first time I've done it with
my core family. So my wife and her dear friend,
Xandria, they organized the entire trip, and then they were
all out there as well. So to be with

(17:00):
people that you kind of started Track Mafia with and
to be with young people who you kind of met 10, 11,
12 years ago, and you gave them their first camera
because they said they were interested in photography and now
they're out in the desert shooting campaigns for different brands.

(17:22):
It was just this beautiful full circle moment, and inspiring
for me and inspiring for other people because it's
like, look at where we started. I couldn't get to
the bottom of the road. And now we're here with our
family running to the bottom of a very, very, very,
very long road.

Very, very, 340 miles, depending on which route you take. Might be 300.

Yes, exactly.

Could go into it, that's amazing. And we'll go into the who's
and the what's of Track Mafia, because I think that's
an important part of who you are and where your
personal and your running life has come from. But let's
go back almost 20 years, since your first London Marathon finish line.

Yes, which is crazy.

Holy moly. London Marathon is around the corner. This episode
will drop as a long run prior to the two
big spring marathons that are on our doorstep.

Amazing.

And it's just unreal for me. I've known Cory for
12 plus years now, and to think you were such a runner
when I met you. I looked up to you
as like, he knows everything about running, this dude.

No way.

And it was 2026... It is 2025, Rebecca, yes, but 2026, that'll
be your 20 years since you first ran London Marathon.
What happened at that finish line that made you go,
bam, this is it?

Do you know what? I'd lived in London my entire
life and I'd seen the race on television and I'd
spoken to people who had done it. They weren't
like my friends, they were friends of friends, so I'd
just stumbled upon them. But the London Marathon that I went
to go and see for the first time, it was
the first time I actually really knew someone and cared
about someone that was running it. So when I watched

(19:14):
them training, when I watched them run, I was like,
oh wow, this is a normal everyday person that does
this stuff. But when I went out on the street
and I saw the diversity of people that were running,
it was like different sexes, different sizes, completely different
races, religions, everyone was running together. And everyone on the

(19:35):
city, everyone in the city came out to cheer them
on. And I was like, I want some, this is
crazy. I want some of this. I'm seeing people running
in rhino seats, to running with fridges on their backs,
and I'm like, this is beautiful. I want to do this. And I
remember saying to my friends, "You know what? I might do this next
year," and everybody laughed, literally everyone laughed. They were like, "

(19:58):
Dude, do you know how poorly you live?" They didn't
say it as politely as that, but they were like, "Do you know how
many poor habits you have? There's no way in the
world you can do that." And I went, " Oh, okay. I bet I can." And
that's literally when, even if I wasn't serious when I
suggested it, I was doubling down on my seriousness when
you doubted me, and that's when the journey began. I

(20:21):
just started looking into how one trains for a marathon
and began. It was the hardest, back then that
was the hardest thing that I had ever done. So,
I just did it.

I love stories like that. First of all. I love
it, Cory, because the same thing really happened to me.
I had not thought about running a marathon. I had
been a runner, so I had running experience, but when
I was 25 years old, I kind of stumbled upon
the finish line of the Boston Marathon on my way home
from a Red Sox baseball game. And I was

(21:00):
like, oh, this is cool. And I sat there and
watched and watched and I was like, I got to
do this. And right then and there I signed up
for the New York Marathon that following fall.

Oh, wow.

So it happened to me very similar. Now, I've heard
that you, when you made this pledge to run the
London Marathon, your first run, you didn't even make it
down the street.

Nope, I did not. I did not, I didn't. That's kind of where one
of my mantras comes from, which is, just get
to the bottom of the road. Because when I stepped
out of the house and I looked down to the bottom
of the road, I was like, ah, nope, this will
be easy. I understood it was going to be a
challenge, but I didn't think that I was so unhealthy,
so unfit that I wouldn't literally be able to run

(21:45):
to the bottom of the road. Now, where I used
to live in (inaudible) , I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not
a big incline. It's like a slight incline, maybe 0.
25%. So it wasn't a hill, but I was like,
how can I not do this?

You were going down, you were going down the hill?

No, no. I started going up ever so slightly.

Okay, got it.

And then it would start going down, and I was
like, how is this hurting? How is my back hurting? How are my quads hurting? How are my calves hurting? How are
my legs hurting? And all I've run for is like
three minutes and I was like, how the hell am I going
to run for four hours, for five hours for six
hours? And that's when I realized, huh, all I have

(22:27):
to do for right now is just get to the
bottom of the road. And even if I can't get to the
bottom of the road, pick something else which is my
representation of the bottom of the road. So it's like,
get to that yellow car, get to that dog, get
to that row of bricks. And that's what I did
throughout the run from LA to Vegas. It was like,

(22:50):
get to the next equivalent of the bottom of the
road. And that might have been a sign, it might
have been a rock, it might have been the RV. Just do
what you can. And the whole point of that is
to reframe everything that is in your head. In
my head, I'm not saying I don't have negativity in my
head, but everything is reframed. It's like, just get there.
Not, I can't get any further, it's, I got there,

(23:11):
and you just keep saying that over and over and
over again. And then you find out that by saying,
just get to that next door or get to that
next fridge or get to the bottom of the road,
you've now hit so many different roads and you look
at your watch and you'll be like, "Ah, I've run 26
miles just by looking at the end of the
road." And yeah, that's what I try and instill in

(23:34):
anyone that I work with, speak with, who has doubt
about anything. It's like, you can do this, you just got
to reframe it.

Absolutely, and that's how you've always been. For as long
as I've known you, for sure. It's, you've just got
to try, you've just got to give it a go. Don't be afraid
to give it a go and show up. And you
are somebody who, for as long as I've known
you and since we've both been in different countries and

(24:04):
same country but now different companies, is you are somebody
who shows up for other people as well, massively. And I think
I feel incredibly lucky to have been your colleague and
your friend back in London in our Nike days. But
everything that you do, whether it's giving back to the
community, whether it's just the things you say about your

(24:26):
mom and your family and all of the energy that you put
out there, is so encouraging for people to actually look
into. There's a difference between people saying it and you're
like, yeah, but do you really do that? You actually, you embody
it. And I think to hear you talk about that

(24:48):
first journey and just take us through how for you,
that first marathon, how that hit your mindset to change,
to become this person who's like, I've unlocked something
for me. How am I going to share this for
other people to feel too?

So, when I finished that first run, when I finished
that first marathon, that six hours, nearly seven hour journey
was just, it was like free therapy. And I'm not saying that
you shouldn't go to a therapist because you run, but
at that point it was free therapy for me, and
I learned so much about myself. I learned that

(25:30):
I was a lot stronger than I ever thought I
was. But I also learned that there were a lot
of things that I was dealing with or hadn't dealt
with, and I realized that it was running that could help
me with that. And it felt like I had unlocked this secret
little box with a bunch of tricks in it that the world
wasn't telling people about. And I was like, if I

(25:52):
didn't know about this, that means there's a bunch of
other people that don't know about this. And those people
would benefit from knowing this because I know what
this running thing did for me. It gave me cardio
confidence, and that cardio confidence is, that instills this belief
in you that because I can get to the bottom
of the road, because I can accomplish anything that I

(26:13):
set my mind to in the running space, I can probably
do anything outside of the running space that I set
my mind to. And I wanted to share that gift
with other people, but I also wanted people to be
aware that everything that you may know about running, everything
that you may have been told about running, I'm
not saying it's not true, but you don't have to

(26:33):
be intimidated. You don't have to be scared. You don't
have to think about running fast. You don't have to
think about running far. You don't have to think about
perfect form, perfect gait, perfect kit, all these things that
we're kind of told. Just get out there and just
keep winning. And when you lose, put your hands up
in the air and be like, we're going to try
and win again. And that is what I wanted people

(26:57):
to realize. Running can and will change your life if
you believe in it, if you believe in yourself. And if
you don't believe in yourself, I'm here to help you
believe in yourself. And that's what I always wanted to
do, it's like help people believe that they can achieve
anything because that's a beautiful space to live in. And
it just changes your life completely.

Wow. Can we just stop the podcast right now? Is
there anything left to say, ever, on a running podcast
than that? Cory, you kind of just summed up
everything we ever talk about at New York Road Runners
in a beautiful way. So, we got to have you
around more often, man.

Okay, thank you, Rob.

You're really good at talking about the transformative power of running, as we like to
say in New York Road Runners, it's pretty amazing. And
how has it transformed you? How are you different? This
cardio confidence you talk about, obviously you're different as a
runner, you're different physically, your fitness level obviously has
changed dramatically. Now you're running from LA to Vegas. You

(28:05):
couldn't run down the street.

(inaudible) got nothing.

This is bananas, right? But how has it changed you,
the person? If I talk to the person you're closest
to in your life, I don't know who that might
be, Cory, your mother or partner or brother, whoever. How
would they say it's changed you?

I would say I stand taller in who I
am and I have less regard for the thoughts and
feelings about me that aren't positive. I think that's the
best way to articulate and synthesize it. And I guess
the long version of it is, running told me that I

(28:48):
can do anything. And because running told me that I
can do anything, I'm now going to do anything. It's
changed the way that I look. Someone said to me the
other day, because you obviously spend lots and lots
of time together in the van, we were looking through
pictures of what we looked like 10 years ago, 15
years ago, 20 years ago. And everyone sort of, not

(29:10):
laughed, but yeah, we were laughing. They were like, " Dude,
you are 47 now. You look younger than when you did
when you were 27." Because I was living poorly. Running
has given me lots and lots of friends. I met
my wife there and it introduced me to a completely
different world. I always laugh with people and I say, "

(29:33):
Dude, before I started running, I'd never been to Shoreditch."
and they're like, " What do you mean you've never been to
Shoreditch?" And for those of you who don't know where Shoreditch
is, it's this sort of hipster- y, cool, if you
want to use that word, area in East London. And
going there, I met all of these people who were
runners or into running. They wouldn't even refer to themselves

(29:55):
as runners at that time. And they just did all
of these things that I'd never heard of. And
I know that sounds really weird, but I used to
work for the government, I used to work for the
public sector, I worked in youth centers, community organizations, and then I go and
meet these people and I'm like, " Oh, what do you
do for a living?" And it's like, " Oh, I'm a videographer." And I was like, " A videographer?
As in you hold a video camera and you video stuff?"

(30:18):
And they're like, " Yeah, I do that." You'd meet someone else and they're like, "
I'm a music producer. I paint pictures, I do all of
these things." So I met all of these creative people and I was
like, hold on. I've been slogging for years and
I've met these people who appear with respect to not
really do anything, and you're paying for your house, you're
paying for your car, you're putting your kids through school.

(30:40):
I was like, how come I haven't heard of any
of these things? Why did no one tell me there
was this life on the other side that I now
have access to? And you meet other people and they
show you about another world. And this sort of relatively
small focus that I had just expanded tenfold. And I was

(31:01):
like, oh, I can actually-
... tenfold and I was like, oh, I can actually
achieve even more than I thought I could have achieved.
And then when you just start talking to yourself like
that over and over and over again, now I'm like, so you want to go
to Mars? Cool. When? Tuesday or Wednesday? And that's what changed.

Yep, that's how it goes.

Wait, but I just want to say though, I've never been
to Shoreditch. I've never even heard of Shoreditch. Becks, when
were you going to tell me about Shoreditch? Shouldn't
I go hang out in Shoreditch when I'm in London
next time?

Maybe.

Am I hip enough? No? Maybe I'm not hip enough.

Once you have a discussion-

Oh, no, you are.

... with Kwesi you'll be fine. Okay. In the moment we're in
of change and of meeting new people and of you coming from
that, London, the social sector in London, heading into your
social sector. So, 2012, is that right, is when TrackMafia

(31:58):
was founded? Around then?

Yes, yeah. So, 2012 was when we started RDC West, and
then RDC West became TrackMafia probably two years after that. Maybe
two years after that.

So, RDC, for our listeners, rundown, crew, it was one of
the biggest and probably one of the most formative run
crews in London. Still to this day I think it's
probably one of the first names that people think of
when it comes to run crews in London.

Charlie Dark, my mentor.

Sir Charlie Dark.

Yeah, sorry. Sir Charlie Dark.

Sir Charlie Dark. Beautiful, beautiful human. And between he and
Cory, they really did change the landscape for runners in
London and created a safe space for runners, whoever they
were, wherever they were from, whether they were locals or
whether they were visiting, to come and move their bodies

(32:56):
and run. And it was a concept that today is
now super fashionable and super cool, but back in
the early 2010s onwards was just life for us all in London,
is what we did. You took over Paddington Rec, which
was an unusual place. It wasn't the Shoreditch rub. It
was a very different-

It's very different.

... other side of London. But it worked and it
really was truly this unassuming park in London that didn't
have the hipster cool vibe that Cory was talking
about of Shoreditch, but it had a certain something.

Charm.

Charm. Perfect. And your TrackMafia, the inner crew has always
been the inner crew. It's like you really do have
the core of the apple and it stayed together.

Yes.

Even though you're now in different countries, like I saw,
I think it was on your or Jules's Instagram last week
where I was like, " What is happening? Everyone's congregating at
Cory's house." And then I just hadn't looked at
the date and was like, " Oh, Speed Project."

Exactly.

But it's just what you've done. So, talk to us
about like what is TrackMafia to you in your heart from
then to today?

Oh, wow. Becks is trying to make me cry. TrackMafia
is my real family. We bonded over miles and miles
and miles of just joy, pain, suffering, talking to
each other. How it worked was we were obviously running

(34:35):
RDC West and then TrackMafia was born. And TrackMafia was
born because I used to run at a run club
called Dulwich Runners and I used to do track sessions
there with the team and the coach there. And then
when we started RDC West and then TrackMafia, my now wife
Jules, she used to do track and the other founder,
Jeggy, he used to do track. So, we were like, "

(34:58):
Do you know what? My office is upstairs," or
used to be upstairs from Paddington Rec. We're like, " There's
a track right there. Why don't we just go and do
track?" So, the three of us just started doing track.
And we were real running nerds, so we would geek
out on YouTube and just watch old running races, watch old-
school Olympic workouts. And we were like, "We can do this, but just

(35:19):
in a really small version." And the whole point of
it was to democratize track but also show people that
speed isn't just for the fast. And I know
that sounds really weird, but loads of people believe that
track is only for people who run fast. You only
go to track if you're going to be running in

(35:42):
zone five, your VO2 max, where we wanted to switch
that and basically say, " No. Running is a safe space
for you to experiment with your body." Now, when we
started doing track, we started doing ridiculous workouts and our
time started getting faster. And people noticed that and they were like, "
What are you lot doing over there at the track?" And

(36:03):
I was like, " We're just doing 400- meter reps. We're doing 200-
meter reps, maybe some 800- meter reps, but we're taking
it seriously." And we were the only group at the
time who weren't an old- school running club that were
doing speed in the space that we existed. So, people
were like, " What's this track thing? Isn't track scary?" And it
was like, " Yeah, track can be scary, but come and

(36:26):
do it with a smile." So, we would run 400-
meter reps and be on the verge of throwing
up, but we'd still be smiling. We'd still be happy.
We'd still be overjoyed. Then we would go on long
three, four hour runs, the three of us, and we'd
just talk. And I've always said that running fast tracks

(36:46):
friendship, because if you think about it, if you just
look at how long you are running with someone and
then try and spend that amount of time just socially,
you got one run, you've got to spend weeks or
months, sometimes years with someone to get to know
them that well. So, we just got to know each
other really, really well. And that's how the friendship was

(37:08):
born. And then we just started bringing more people in,
and then all of a sudden, you've just got this
amazing group of people all from different backgrounds with a
bunch of different skill sets that just want to be
around each other. And that's when we started telling stories,
which is what wasn't happening at that particular point in
time. That was what made us different. One, the fact

(37:30):
that we were doing these hard track sessions, two,
we were telling the stories. And back then, it wasn't
about the beautiful shot, the wonderful light. It was really lo-
fi back then and it was about, how hurt do
I look right now? And I want to share this pain
and anguish with people, but I also want to share

(37:50):
the joy that it has brought. And that's what used
to bring people to us. It was the balance between
pain and suffering and joy and happiness, camaraderie with
friends. And it's like, " They look like they're having fun.
How are they having fun? I just saw the time
that they ran, but this... Okay, I'm going to go
and I'll see if I can have fun." And that

(38:11):
just snowballed.

It really did. And all the friendliest people. And I will never forget
Cynthia being the first person I ever was like, " That
girl runs with red lipstick on? That's so cool." And
then the first time-

And she stills does.

... I went to Peloton and was like, " I'm channeling my
inner Cynthia," when I wore red lipstick for the first
time. And to this day, if I wear-

Amazing.

... red lipstick, I think of Cynthia and I'm just like, "
It's so..." Yeah, it truly, I'm just trying to get
across how wonderful all of it. They really, truly are. Even
from an outsider who was never somebody who ran with
TrackMafia because I was always doing Nike things, but-

The space was there for you.

Exactly. But you always all held space when we were
in other countries and other cities doing races together.
I felt like I was part of the family, even
though I was never essentially at the track meets all
the time. And that is something that definitely helped me
personally in running and falling in love with running. So,

(39:15):
thank you, guys.

No, thank you. And you're still always welcome at track as it
still goes on. Even though we've moved, it's still there.
Thursday at 6:30.

I'd definitely pull a hammy these days.

Guys, it sounds like so many of the run
clubs we have in New York. We've got clubs, we've
got crews, we've got super competitive, super social, a mix.
This really is so much a part of what has
driven this boom in running over the last several years
since the pandemic is all that you said, Cory, about

(39:50):
the way it brings people together, the way you can
connect with somebody over a run. I never thought of
it in the terms you put it and how much
time you spend with someone on a long run and
how many coffee dates you'd have to put together
to spend that much time with someone. You're right. An hour
coffee is like, you got to do like 12 of those
to do a half- marathon or whatever, or a long,

(40:11):
long run. So, it's a lot. It's a lot of
time and it really does make an impact. Cory, I want
to talk about your music side too. So, you have
a bit of a background in the music world. You
are an MC for DJs and a lot of the
electronic dance music superstars that are out there, that
whole world. How does that relate to your running? I'm

(40:34):
curious, do you channel some of that? Do you-

Can I answer that?

... listen to a lot of music when you run?

I want to hear what Becks is going to say because
I most definitely do channel that on my runs.

Oh my gosh, no, you go for it. But trust me, he is the good vibes, the
good energy, and he is the kind of... You think
I don't shut up when you're running. I learned
from him, put it that way.

So, when I used to MC in clubs or on
radio over garage, house, drum and bass, all of that
music, you realize that you are the vibe controller. You
are the mood controller, and you have to lead with
your energy. And that's what I take to my running

(41:24):
space. I have to lead with my good energy and
that's what will bring the crowd up. That's my
job. My job is to dial into you personally and
as a group of people and help you have the
best time of your life in combination with the DJ.
And it's the same thing when I speak to people

(41:45):
about running. I sometimes explain it to them either like
a DJ set or an entire evening of raving. It's
like when you get to the rave or when you
look at the first DJ, the first DJ isn't always
necessarily the best DJ of the night. It's the one
that's going to get you warm, but you still
have to go to that set. So, you go to
that set and that first DJ is the one that

(42:06):
gets you nice and warm, gets you hyped. Then the DJs in
the middle, the DJs in the middle, they're hit or miss. AKA,
you might have a good time, you might have a
bad time, but you still have to stay committed to
that rave if you want to see the best DJ,
which is normally the last person who closes out. So,
you have to stay committed to that middle section. And

(42:26):
then when you get to the end, it's going to
be hard. It's going to be tired because you've
now been raving since midnight and it's now 6
AM. But if you really love this DJ, you just
got to keep raving. You just got to keep partying.
You just got to keep going. And that's how I
look at it, that's how I still treat runs to
this day. And because I'm a MC, anytime I'm out

(42:51):
on a run and I find my head drifting off
into spaces that I may not necessarily want them to,
I'll just start spitting bars. And for people who don't
understand spitting bars, I just mean I'll start freestyling
about stuff. I'll talk about the rocks that are beside,
I'll talk about the pigeons, I'll talk about the darkness
that's out there. It's just anything to take my mind
off of that particular space point in time right there.

(43:14):
And that's what I share with people. I was like when you run, you've
got two choices. You either live in it or you
live outside of it. And depending on where you are,
you have to make your choice. And I love living
in it, because living in it, I get to process
a bunch of things that I may not necessarily have
processed. And it also teaches me that you can't control

(43:37):
life, but what you can control is the stuff you can control.
And that's how I react. I said a bunch of
stuff there. I hope I answered the question.

I loved it. Cory, this is a new metaphor for
me. I have a lot of marathon and running metaphors,
but I have not had the marathon rave metaphor before.
This is huge. You may be surprised to hear
this, I don't go to a lot of raves, but
I know what a rave is. And the idea that it's that last DJ

(44:11):
that you're holding out for and you do have to keep the
vibe going that whole time, I totally see that. I
totally get that. That's really cool.

Really nice.

Thank you.

I will attest to he does keep you going. He does. I have
this real memory of you on a beanbag in,
it's either going to be Amsterdam or Berlin, I can't
remember which city it was. We were exhausted. We were on
a 90 tour of some sort and we'd been going
for weeks. And Cory's just on this beanbag and he got

(44:45):
his shoes off, and I can just see you, I
literally can just see you, and you just started singing.
And we were all flat in the room, and within
minutes someone had a song on their phone and Cory's just
singing and we're all up and we're like, " We've
got this!" Just because he literally just probably had that

(45:06):
thought in his own brain of, " We got to get
through this. We got to get to that last DJ."

And I actually built a class out of that. We
used to call it Forge and it was all about
drum and bass music, which is anywhere between, I think
it's 175, 180, or 185 bpm. I can never remember. And it is fast. It's like bam, bam, bam. But it's the
perfect pace for running drills. The perfect pace. So, I

(45:35):
would do a full class anywhere between 45 minutes and
an hour and it would just be hit and running
drills. So, the drum and bass would be on, its like... And I would have people just going, "
One, two, three, four. Now, give me high knees, high
knees, high knees, high knees. Now, give me a skip,
a skip, a skip." And people would come to the

(45:56):
class and be like, " Dude, I hate running, I hate
drills, I hate all of these things, but I like
this music." And they would just come and they would do it.
And I'd realize that if you just play some decent
music, turn the lights off, and you're a nice person,
people will come and dance and work out even if

(46:17):
they don't like working out because they're not coming to
work out. You fooled them into believing that they're coming
to dance and it just so happens there might be
some equipment in the area. And that's what I used
to tell people. I fool people into working out
by getting them to dance and do ridiculous things.

Perfect. And that leads it on very nicely to talk
about your incredible book that has just come out.

Ah, yes. All You Need is Rhythm and Grit.

Oh my gosh, this book. You can't quite see all
of Cory right now, but Cory is a pink and
blue guy in my mind. Yeah, from forever you've had
pink and blue as your colors.

Always.

And I just love the book. Just, it's straight
up like, " That's Cory's book." That's Cory's book.

When they showed me that design, I was like, " Wow."
Because Cindy, which is my publisher, she just messaged me
and she was like, " Oh, Cory, what do you want your book
cover to look like?" And I said to her, "I don't know." I was like, " Anything but
this." I don't want a-

Didn't want a closeup.

Yeah, I didn't want a portrait of me leaning in.

Awkwardly in a suit, in a linen suit.

Yeah. I didn't want that. And she was like, " We've got a
few ideas. The designer has worked on this. Let me
know what you think of this." And when she sent me the PDF,
I was blown away. I was like, " This is me.
The artist has literally captured me in color. You fully

(47:58):
understood the assignment." I was overjoyed. And to be able to write
a book, like what? From where I started about this
thing that I found, it's still unbelievable. As a child,,
you have these pipe dreams. I'm like, " Oh yeah, I'd
love to write a book." And when people are like, " About

(48:21):
what?" I was like, "I don't know. It's just a pretty cool thing to
do." But then when I was given the opportunity to
do that, I was like, " This is unbelievable." And
I'm going to share my story because I think people
not necessarily need to know my story, and that's the
thing, even though the book is about me, it's not

(48:43):
about me. It's about people like me, and those are
people who in the beginning didn't necessarily believe too much
in themselves. They weren't really happy in their skin, but
there was just something that you couldn't quite put
your finger on. And I couldn't put my finger on

(49:03):
it until running. When I found running, I realized how
unhappy I was, and I wanted to share that. And
it was unhappy about how I looked, unhappy about my
weight, unhappy about where I was in life. And you
spend hours with yourself, you can't but explore that. And that's
what I wanted to share with people, that if you

(49:25):
choose to, I guess, give yourself to the road or
give yourself to the trails, it will give you
back in tenfold. And that's what the book is about.
The book is about community. How I describe it is
it's a love letter to running and to myself, thanking
the running gods for blessing me and giving me an

(49:47):
opportunity to bless my family, my community, with some of
the lessons that I've learned that have changed my life. And
it's changed a bunch of other people's lives. And that's
not on me. That's on them. I just shone
the torch down into the cave and I was like, " Look in
there. You can go in there if you want." And

(50:07):
many people have chosen to. The book is about saying
running is really hard, but you'll learn a lot if
you engage.

Amazing. Love it. The book is called All You Need
is Rhythm and Grit. I love everything you just said
about it, so got to pick that up. Got
to check it out. Another thing that folks can check
out that you're a part of, Cory, is your role
with Apple and Apple Fitness+.

Yes.

This must be the culmination for you of all of
this journey you've had, now you are part of a
fitness and running product, which is incredible.

Which is.

Right?

It's unbelievable.

You must pinch yourself sometimes and be like, " Now, I'm
here? I'm bringing other people to this." Talk about
what you do for Apple Fitness+ and what that experience
is like.

So, I say to people, Becks, we might battle about
this, but I say to people, " I have the best job
in the world." And the reason why I say I
have the best job in the world is I predominantly
work on something called Time to Run. And Time to
Run is a immersive audio- guided experience where the whole

(51:27):
point of it is to transport people on their
daily runs to a completely different location. So, my job
is to literally pick a location, go to that location,
pick a route, run that route, take beautiful pictures that
show up on people's Apple watches and their phones, and
guide them through a workout. And I get to play

(51:48):
the music that I'd like to as well. So, I'm
like, hold on, I've taken all of the things that
I've been incredibly passionate about over the past couple of
decades and I now get paid to do it
in sunny Los Angeles. Every morning I wake up and
I'm like, " How is this possible? How are we here?"

(52:09):
But we are here. So, I do that as part
of my role. And then as you said, the other
part of the role for Fitness+ is working in online
workouts. So, I am either a modifier in workouts, so
I will do yoga, strength, rowing, core, treadmill, cycling, all

(52:30):
of those things. I basically work out and write and
play music for a living and get to speak to,
whether it's, I have no ideas about any figures, but
it's hundreds of thousands or millions of people I get
to speak to. And I'm like, " How is this happening?"
20 years ago, I couldn't run to the bottom of

(52:53):
the road, and now I'm telling people in countries all
over the world how to get to the bottom
of the road. I still pinch myself. I still pinch
myself that I'm surrounded by such amazing people that many

(53:15):
years ago I would've paid lots and lots of money
just to talk to, just to learn from. And now, I get to sit
with these people and have coffee with them every morning and
tap their brains. I've recently gone on another journey
myself. Basically, I was supposed to run Berlin Marathon in

(53:35):
September and I was injured. And I watched all of
my friends run Berlin Marathon and I was like, " I'm
not missing this again next year, so I'm going to
start training now a year out." And because I obviously
work for Fitness+, I was like, " I'm just going to
set up a program on Fitness+ and I'm going to

(53:57):
do a strength and yoga workout every single day.
Maybe I'll do a Pilates workout." And just Fitness+, and obviously monitoring
my nutrition, I dropped 40 pounds in three months so
that I could begin my running cycle proper at the
beginning of the year in January. And obviously, I knew

(54:17):
that Speed Project was coming up and I was like, "
You know what? I need to get back down to
race weight." Because I'd actually snuck back up for the
first time to quite a weight that I didn't
want to be at. And because of the book, All
You Need is Rhythm and Grit, I just remembered everything that I

(54:37):
had done previously and I was like, " All I'm going
to do now is I'm going to do everything that
I've done before, but now I have access to Fitness+, so
I don't necessarily have to go to a class." So,
I'd wake up in the morning and I'd put on
my teammates. So, there's a yoga workout that I've done,
I think, 112 times because I would do it every
morning to stretch my hammies or my quads or my

(54:58):
back or wherever, and then I'd do a strength
workout, then I'd go and do a cycling work and then
a treadmill workout. And it's just easy. It just changed
my life. So yeah, that's all. It's just amazing.

It really is.

What a journey.

I'm not going to batter you because I think no
matter what the companies we both work for are called,
we do the same thing essentially. And so we
absolutely do have the best jobs in the world that
we get to help people and ourselves move their bodies,

(55:39):
feel grace and happiness, hopefully, on the journey, for want
of a better word, that we can be part of,
which is just nuts that we get to be part
of these millions of different journeys that are happening simultaneously,
but we also have no idea.

Yes. That's the hard part.

Yeah.

That's the hard part. That, for me, is the
hardest part, not knowing as in... Because I've gone from
standing in the rain with an umbrella, a clipboard, and
a whistle-

To a coach.

Yeah. And you see change week after week after week
right in front of you, right there, but then when
you're in a predominantly digital space, you don't necessarily get
to, I guess, be as close to that change. But
when you're trackside or when you're roadside, when you're

(56:32):
on the trails, you only get access to those 20
people or to those 30 people, 40 people, or some of
these running clubs or crews now 100 people or 1, 000
people. You can't have 1, 000 connections at once. So, let's
just say you've got 30 people whereby all of these
online platforms, and as Beck says, regardless of what platform
it is that you work for, all of these people

(56:55):
you're helping. You'll get emails. You'll get text messages. You'll
get DMs, and it's just people that you wouldn't
even think of. And some of these stories that we
get from Fitness+ are unbelievable. It's like, " I was suffering
from this, but through your workouts, it's made me realize
that I can do more. And I've changed my life.

(57:18):
And now, I've got my daughter into running, my son
into running. My whole family's into running. And now, we've
changed our nutrition. Now, we go to different places on
holiday." And that's just from listening to my voice or
to your voice or to someone else's voice, or
seeing that embodiment. It's just beautiful how much change we

(57:40):
can be part of. And not for selfish reasons. It's more like
what you do feeds me. And that's what I love,
just seeing all of that positivity out there, just seeing
someone smiling. There was one audio- guided run that I did
in dc DC, so we went to DC, we ran the
route, et cetera. It's actually happening in Puerto Rico

(58:03):
as well, where people take the pictures that I have
taken, they go to the location, they run the route,
and then they take the pictures in the same place,
but they'll Photoshop themselves in to make it look like
we did it together. And I'm like, " This is wild."
This is how committed-

Wow.

... these people-

That's so cool.

... are to remapping what we did. Look at my face.
I'm just smiling. I'm like, this is ridiculous.

But that's because you created that connection for them, and
that's their way of feeling the gratitude towards you showing
it and just understanding that this guy, because you did
it, they did it.

Yeah.

It's so beautiful.

Yeah, it's beautiful.

Well, Cory, I could talk to you all day. It's just-

Wait, I want to know one more thing, though-

Yep.

Yeah, please.

... about connection.

Yep.

Go ahead.

Are your mom and your sister still running?

Oh, yes, yeah.

Yeah!

So, it's funny, my mum actually, so she started running...
Let me start from the beginning. She started walking, and
then when she saw that I was running, she was
like, "Do you think I can run too?" And I was like, " You saw me
when I started running, right?" And then we both laughed

(59:26):
and she was like, " I can do it. I can run."
So, we just started going for walks and then going
for runs. And then the old- school phrase, " Teach one,
teach one." And I might have changed that, but that's
what she did. I showed her how to run, and
then she just gathered her own group and they started

(59:48):
going for runs. They started going for walks. And my
mom would come and cheer me on at cross country.
She would cheer me on when I would do 5Ks, 10Ks, half-
marathons, marathons, and then she signed up for races
without me even knowing that she was signing up for
these races. So, she signed up for a race in
Paris at a, what's it called? At an adventure park. I

(01:00:11):
don't even know if we're allowed to say the name,
but she went there to Paris. There's one in Orlando
and other places.

Rob Simmelkjaer (01:00:16):
Disney.

Cory Wharton-Malcolm (01:00:16):
And she did this-

Becs Gentry (01:00:16):
The Disney, yeah.

Disney. The Disney race.

The Disney challenges.

I didn't know if I could say it.

Of course.

The Disney race. So, she did the 5K, the 10K, and
the half- marathon.

Wow, she did the whole Dopey Challenge.

She did the whole challenge.

Whoa.

But this is the best part. Our dear friend Paula
Radcliffe, she was at the finish line. And obviously, we've
done a lot of work with Paula and my mum
has met Paula, so my mum is stood at the
finish line waving and screaming at Paula Radcliffe. " Go ahead, do you
remember me? I'm Cory's mum." Paula then invites her up
onto the little bus on the finish line, and her

(01:00:54):
and Paula Radcliffe are taking selfies and my mum is sending them
to me. And I'm like, " Mum." I'm like, " Lynn, what are
you doing? Why?" " No, it's Paula. She's fine." That's how
deep my mum got into the running. And then I
obviously bought her an Apple Watch, and now she's addicted
to that thing. She wants to close her rings every
day. She wants to go for a walk.

Great.

And she wants to share activity. She's like, "Is the new
one out? When can I get that? I hear there's
this new strap." The other day, like she chipped it.
She said, " Oh, will it still work if it's chipped?
Can you get me another one?" And I also
bought her one of the little Apple TVs, so she
now attempts to do the workouts. And when I say attempts

(01:01:37):
to do the workout, she'll put it on and she'll
have it in the background and she'll do a couple
of the moves.

That's fine. She's moving.

Exactly.

She's moving. She's engaging and she's moving.

Exactly.

That is beautiful. Wow, Lynn.

See, you even remember her name.

Aw.

Well, she came to a lot of Nike events.

Exactly.

We got to know her. She'd always bring us food too.

So, that is also a thing. Sorry, Rob. That's
also a thing. I-
So that is also a thing. Sorry, Rob. That's also
a thing. At all of the events that we used
to organize, I always used to try and make sure
that it was full circle, so it was a running event
and my mom would cook all of the food. So
you would have these ridiculous running event, and then my
mom would come in and cook like rice and peas,
jerk chicken curry chicken, roti, all the West Indian food.

Becs (01:02:21):
And roti.

And roti.

Becs (01:02:25):
And people would be like, " Dude, what is this? Do
I have to pay for this?" And I'm like, " No,
this is our way of giving back my friend.
Eat, be merry, be happy." And yeah, that's what we
used to do.

So cool. And you influence people all over the world,
but when it's your mom, that's where it's at. That's where it's at.

One more thing about my mom. We did a Kevin
Hart run and she was the person-

Becs (01:02:55):
She will never forget that.

Never forget Kevin Hart running towards my mom to
try and help her. " That's your mom. That's your mom."
I'm like, " Yeah, that's my mom, Kevin."

Becs (01:03:04):
That's superb.

And I'm like, " Why are you making a scene?" Me and Becs are running
this thing and you have to take the limelight."

Becs (01:03:17):
She took it, she was fine.

I'm like, "You're a ridiculous person." But that's why I'm a ridiculous
person. So I have to thank my mom for making
me who I am.

That sounded just like Kevin Hart, by the way. I totally see that.
Could totally see Kevin Hart doing that.

Becs (01:03:33):
I can. I can snowball from Secret Life of Pets because
I have a two- year- old who is addicted to
watching it and Kevin Hart is the voice of Snowball
the rabbit. But yeah.

He's hilarious. Please.

Becs (01:03:45):
He's brilliant.

I love it.

Becs (01:03:47):
So good. Well, Cory-

Well Cory, you are ridiculously inspiring. It's unbelievable everything that you are
doing and just phenomenal having a chance to talk to
you. Congratulations on the runs, on the book, on
the Apple Fitness Plus and everything else you're doing. And
when are we going to see you in New York?

(01:04:07):
You got to get to New York for a race. When
are we going to see you here?

Dude, I have been coming to New York for the
New York Marathon every year. Probably, I think I've missed
two years in the last decade or so. I'm always
there cheering or taking photographs or just hanging out because
we haven't spoken about the BTG movement. But the
whole reason I was able to meet all of these

(01:04:33):
things was because Mike Safe started it in New York.
So I'm always in New York giving back to that
community. I'm always up there with Hector and Rue Crew,
Safe and Bridge Runners. Weirdly enough, New York is my
second home. I can land in New York tomorrow and
be like, " Yo, I've arrived." And they'll be like, "Come to this burger spot, come to this place, come to

(01:04:56):
that place."

Becs (01:04:58):
And he is the guy in the middle of the
course up there too. I mean, there was no way Cory was
not letting me know that he was right there.

I was like, "Yeah. Yeah. Yeah."

Becs (01:05:04):
Camera confetti.

I was screaming.

Becs (01:05:04):
Yeah, that crew is the best on race day. It's
such a great area.

All right, well we got to make sure we connect
with you this year.

Becs (01:05:18):
Yes.

Oh, definitely.

Hopefully you'll be back.

Yes, I will.

And love to have you show up at some things
and just get you-

Dude, definitely.

... up and in front of some people because-

Becs (01:05:27):
100%.

... it's so great listening to you and hearing your
story. So let's get you out there, even more
in New York this year.

Oh, amazing.

I would love to do that.

Thank you, Rob. Thank you Becs.

Absolutely. Cory Wharton- Malcolm, amazing conversation, amazing guy. Thank you
so much for being with us today. I appreciate you.

Thank you for having me. Such a pleasure.

New York Roadrunners is a nonprofit organization with a
vision to build healthier lives and stronger communities through the
transformative power of running. The support of members and donors
like you helps us achieve our mission to transform the
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(01:06:20):
more and contribute at NYRR. org/ donate.

Becs (01:06:25):
All right, one of today's guests is somebody very, very
important in my world. He's a fantastic father, he's
a pretty darn good athlete all around, and he is here
for a second time on Set the Pace today. It
is Mr. Austin Curtis.

Austin (01:06:43):
Thank you for having me back.

Becs (01:06:47):
Well this time you get the duo, you actually get
Rob and myself here to talk to you about all
things running. But thank you for coming back.

Austin (01:06:57):
We weren't too bad last time. I don't think we need
a mediator, but it's nice to have Rob on.

We're not going to do therapy here. We're just going to talk about running. Hello
Austin, how are you?

Austin (01:07:08):
I'm doing well, thank you.

Nice to have you on. Set the Pace, I guess
you kind of have to say yes, right? I mean,
when the request comes from Becs, there's not really much
much of a conversation to be had. We knew you'd
come on. But we're thrilled to have you back on
Set the Pace. And I've been thinking about you Austin
a lot over the last six months as I

(01:07:32):
am regaled by Becs, all of her incredible stories, her
amazing adventure of running the Great World Race and seven
marathons on seven continents in seven days, and all of the
incredible training that had to lead up to that and
the time that she had to put in to do

(01:07:55):
that. And I'm thinking to myself, of course in the
back of my head that wow, Austin is a
champ because clearly he is picking up the slack for
so much of what had to happen at home with
your daughter Tallulah and everything else that has to happen
on the home front when someone is undertaking an adventure

(01:08:16):
like that. So what was it like from your perspective
to see and be a part of Becs accomplishing this
unbelievable adventure of the Great World Race?

Austin (01:08:28):
I mean, nothing short of incredible to see Becs
accomplish it. We were down in Miami for the final
finish line of the seven and we had friends, family, some
of Becs' colleagues, and I always find races to be
the celebration in many ways. But what you don't see

(01:08:49):
is the behind the scenes, the runs that Becs doesn't
want to leave because Tallulah is asking again where mommy's
going. And there were a lot of daddy daughter
dates on the weekends and some of those longer runs.
We tried to incorporate sharing some miles, some stroller miles

(01:09:14):
together in the late summer before it got too cold.
But yeah, I don't think people realize how much of
a sacrifice it is to let alone train for a
marathon, but then seven. And we talked about it
going into it that there was going to be probably

(01:09:36):
some difficult conversations, times, et cetera. And we reached some
of those bits towards the end and I think Becs
was ready for the race to be done, but we
were able to continue to find the best balance we

(01:09:57):
could once we were getting close to the race
start. And then it's just when you're trying to squeeze
in a FaceTime between flights and continents and time changes,
and just to wish Becs good luck and this is
what it was all for, it's all worth it. So

(01:10:22):
yeah, I still can't comprehend. It's not like I'm not
a runner. I run, I still can't comprehend a
race of this magnitude. So yeah, still processing it.

I will never ever comprehend what Becs did and others who
accomplished that feat, with her others who have done it before
and since then, it boggles the mind.

Austin (01:10:53):
It surely does. I have one long run a week
at the moment and that is circled on the
calendar each week. I'm just like, all right, I've got
to build myself up. And that was almost every day
for what Becs was training, and she was able to

(01:11:14):
meet a lot of now close friends through that race
and everyone has their own story of how they got
to that start line and to the finish line. So yeah,
it was quite special.

Becs (01:11:28):
I work to inspire even that, but you definitely did
hold down the fort and allowed me the time on
my feet, which got me to the finish line. So
it was a team effort. I want to know though,
did my training in many ways, seeing as you were
so close to it first hand, inspire you or change

(01:11:49):
your mindset at all going into your current block of training?

Which is for the London Marathon, right Austin?

Austin (01:11:58):
For London, yeah. Which will be the fifth star,
chasing the sixth and-

Nice.

Austin (01:12:05):
... a couple more after that. Yeah, it did. I
think there was always a talk, that the stars conversation
came quite quickly after I had run Boston, and that
was my first major. I qualified for that. I ran

(01:12:25):
it. It was a terrible year weather- wise, and I had
heard about the stars, but it was not anything I
had thought of. And then in 2023, Chicago and New York
just came up quite quickly and suddenly I was at
three stars. And then Becs wanted to do Tokyo and

(01:12:48):
I wasn't going to go all that way and not
run. So there was four. So after Tokyo I had
the idea just based on Tallulah's age, it would be
nice to run Berlin in the fall of 2024
and then run London this year. And Tallulah, not that

(01:13:08):
her memory is set in stone right now, but she
would be able to kind of experience, and then also
knowing Becs connection to the UK, it'd be nice to
finish in London. And when Becs was training for the
7, 7, 7 I started to go for a few longer runs

(01:13:29):
to just see what was in the tank and
just based on our schedules, both also trying to balance
work too and being parents, I just didn't have that
fire within me. And so Berlin was kind of scrapped
for 2024 and just was like, let's just get through Becs'

(01:13:50):
race and then I can refocus. But it was quickly reignited
in Miami, seeing Becs finish with some of her
friends and just like, " Okay, I want to have that

(01:14:10):
feeling again." Because I treat running quite... You learn so
much about yourself each kind of training block, and I'm
not one to just line up a multitude of races.
I kind of like to just sit back for a
little bit, and London couldn't come at a better

(01:14:31):
time. So definitely excited to be in this training cycle.
Becs is coaching me, which is the first time she's
coached me in a race. So there's that balance, but
just feeling accomplished after each tough workout and rebuilding again.

Becs (01:14:54):
We go through phases of I will give him his
training plan for the week and he will just
sit in silence, and especially before the speed workout days,
I can feel him glaring at me over the counter
in the kitchen of like, " I don't want to talk
to you right now because this is a horrible workout."

(01:15:14):
And then I can tell whether it's been a good workout or
not of how quickly he text me after it's done
and his tone. Like, uh- oh, maybe I should not
go home for a minute and just let him calm down,
or it's okay, he really crushed this workout. But
as we're getting closer, I'm kind of sending him his

(01:15:34):
workouts with trepidation.

What's interesting to me in listening to you guys talk
about your respective running challenges is the way that you
do have to support each other in what each of
you is trying to accomplish. And I think all runners
who are people with kids and families, if you're out

(01:15:58):
there running marathons, whether it's one or you're going
for the six stars or you're going to next level
stuff like what Becs did or Ultras or whatever it might
be, you simply can't do it without some level of
support. And I've met all the kinds of couples. I've

(01:16:19):
met the couples where one is running like crazy and
the other one doesn't run and doesn't understand why anybody
would run, which can be challenging because one's like, "
Well what are you doing? Why are you doing this?" Although
sometimes that works kind of like the, " Hey, whatever keeps
that person happy and calm makes me happy." Sometimes you've

(01:16:40):
got the double runner couple, which you guys obviously are,
and I think in some ways that's ideal because there's
an understanding that each of you has as to what
the other one's trying to do, and that question of
why maybe doesn't exist because you each understand intuitively the
why, and it makes it a little easier to support.

(01:17:02):
And then you guys are really next level because you're
not just understanding, but you're coaching, especially Becs, you coaching
Austin, or Austin you supporting Becs at the high level
given what she had to do in November. So you
really are in a lot of ways a model. What
do you think, and I'll ask Austin, since you're our

(01:17:24):
guest, I'll ask you, what do you think other couples, other
sets of partners out there who are trying to
do these things can take from what you and Becs
have learned about supporting each other through these races?

Austin (01:17:43):
Going back to what you just said about having a
support system. And I had a specific goal that I
wanted to hit on a time and I achieved that,
but I look back at that and you always hold
a PR close to you and you say, " Will I
ever hit it again? And my life was very

(01:18:04):
different. I was single. I didn't have a dog, I
could train. Really the only thing in my way was
work, but I could train whenever I wanted to. And
our life is much different now. Becs and our relationship,
we have Tallulah, we have two dogs, we both have
careers that we're trying to build. And more so I

(01:18:28):
guess my career, I've stepped away from a typical 9:
00 to 5:00 job and out on my own. And so you're
always asking yourself, " I could be working in this time,
I could be doing this." And there have been runs
that have been very tough. If Tallulah's a little sick

(01:18:48):
or under the weather, just fussy, she's a toddler, to
just be like, " Becs, you got it? I got to
go do this." And I know on the same side,
Becs has had to step out for some runs
and it's just like, " Yeah, I got it." So advice? What

(01:19:10):
works for Becs and I, and I don't know if it's advice
but it's advice for us is, I know how much
a workout can change our mindsets and just our energy
for the day. So getting out there, I know it
very much fills Becs' cup up. There's been times

(01:19:31):
where I've just told her to go for a run.
I said, " Hey, you need to just go out for
a run."

I can imagine what kind of circumstances might've caused you to say
that. Yeah, just like, " You know what sweetheart, maybe you
should just go for a run maybe, like now."

Austin (01:19:49):
And then I see her Strava or something, it's like 18 mile run, six-
minute phase. You're just like, " Okay, I think that was a
good shout on my part." I don't know where
I came across this bit of information, it was more

(01:20:11):
related to parenting, but I think we've applied this into
other aspects of our relationship is, there's days that you're
going to be at 80% and your partner might be
at 20%. And there might be days that you're at
40 and they're at 40. And just to check

(01:20:32):
in with each other and see where they're at and
see what they need. And if you're both at an
equal level and low, " Hey, how can we get ourselves
back? How can we get through this next bit?" Whatever,
it's the afternoon, the day, the week, whatever. So I
think that helps quite a bit. But yeah, like you

(01:20:58):
said, there's relationship set. There's a runner in the
family and the other person doesn't step on an exercise
equipment, they get their fix from whether it be watching
sports or playing sports, et cetera. But balance is certainly
key for us, I think.

Becs (01:21:21):
I think finding out also what helps each other on
the flip side to recover is key as well. Because
you know that any strenuous exercise is going to
take energy from a human. That's just what happens. But
knowing how each person can come back from that, because
as you train, you get stronger and you don't maybe

(01:21:42):
necessarily need to spend the rest of the afternoon on
the couch after your long run, which is fine to
do. But when you have other responsibilities in life, it's
knowing, okay, when Aus comes back from a run, it's,
I'm going to get his rehydration stuff out and ready.
The water is poured and there'll be a smoothie...

(01:22:02):
If I had made a smoothie for Tallulah and I whilst
he's out, make sure I've made enough and it's in
the fridge. And if T and I are out, it's all on a post-
it note of just like, " Hey babe, I got you.
This is going to help you recover and also help
you get back onto parenting." In a way, because you
don't want that guilt. I know I felt that guilt
a lot and Aus did that for me last year. Was helping

(01:22:24):
my recovery, helping my post- run lineup be efficient so
I could get back to being mom. And I didn't
have that guilt of extra time rolling through. So
I think that's a piece of advice. If you have
dogs and not kids, get the dogs out for a
walk and then you don't have to worry about them.
You can go back to being a couple as soon as

(01:22:44):
possible after the shower and then that person can get
in the boots or whatever it is to get their
recovery going and feeling back to their primary role, whatever
that may be. But yeah, it's fun.

No doubt about it.

Becs (01:22:57):
It's very fun.

Recovery is part of the run. It's a big part of
the run. So Austin, let's talk about London. First of
all, excited for you. That's going to be your fifth
star you said. By the way, starting in Boston is
unusual. That's amazing that you qualify and obviously you're a
very good runner to start out with a qualifying run in

(01:23:21):
Boston as your first star. I think that's the stars
that are most likely to be the last star someone
gets, from what I've seen in my travels, and I
think I've seen the data on this from the
Abbott World Marathon Majors. Folks are Tokyo and Boston, those
are the two that people generally struggle to get. So
you got those in your pocket already. Now you're sweeping

(01:23:42):
up the relatively easier ones to get. What is your
goal in London? Do you have a goal other than
just to get that star? A PR or anything like
that in your sights? So how are you thinking about it?

Austin (01:23:54):
Yeah, I do have a time kind of goal and
it's not a PR, it's just I think a pretty solid
effort. My PR is, I broke three hours, I ran 2:
57 and that's what qualified me for Boston. And I

(01:24:18):
would like to think that I can do that again.
But Chicago, New York and Tokyo were three marathons in,
it's called six months from 2023 to 2024. And
I felt a bit broken. Even going into Chicago, I

(01:24:39):
was having achilles issues, but I had already had the
bibs for New York and Tokyo. So at that point
it was just kind of get through the races. And
so Chicago, I actually had quite a bit of fun
in Chicago. It wasn't until about mile 20- ish that

(01:24:59):
I had some achilles issues that flared up. And
then New York-

Those are tough, by the way, the achilles thing is
a really tough thing to deal with.

Becs (01:25:08):
Very tough.

I've been lucky never to have had that. It's scary
because you know that thing goes and you're going to
be sitting for a long time.

Austin (01:25:19):
Yeah. I think the last race I had done before
Chicago was actually an Ironman, and it was like the
last two miles I felt my achilles and calf
kind of starting to, and this wasn't issues I was
having with my achilles, it was just the end of
a long day, that my body was just trying to say, "

(01:25:41):
Yeah, we're done, we want to be done." But going
into Chicago, I don't know if it was I got
a bib quite late and tried to ramp up my
mileage a little bit too quickly. Since Tokyo, I've started
to get back into the gym to do some
strength training. Again, though, before Tallulah, we were able to

(01:26:09):
go to the gym for two, three hours and run
for an hour and lift for an hour and recover,
but time is very crucial now. So I think I
put the gym and the strength training on the back
burner and I paid for it. So New York

(01:26:30):
though was just a fun day celebrating in the city.
I had a few friends that wanted to run. They
had a goal time around like 3
was like, " This is great. This should be a nice
run." And we came in a little over that, but
just we had so much fun that day. And then

(01:26:51):
Tokyo, I was so sick after the holidays in January
and February. I think I had run less than 50
miles of training total before that race. So that
was just a tough day and a tough course. We
were talking about that for a second there in the pre-
show, but it's a tough course. There's so many out

(01:27:13):
and backs, its sensory overload. To go-

The jet lag, everything is hard.

Austin (01:27:17):
Yeah, all of it.

It really is a hard race, for Americans. For people coming from this side of
the world. Yeah.

Austin (01:27:23):
Very much. But then you think someone in that part
of the world that wants the six stars, they're
coming over for three races in the US and two
in Europe. So yeah, but just going into London, I
wanted to see if I could touch back into some

(01:27:45):
of that lower threes. And right now training is going
pretty well. I think both the coaching has helped tremendously
from Becs, and then also finding a balance in
the gym, strength training and also the running. So I'm

(01:28:07):
excited to see what London has. It's a city that
I've grown to really love and spend a lot of
time in. And from what Becs has shared with me,
I haven't done too much research on the course, but
you see a lot. It's a nice sightseeing tour as
well. So yeah, very excited for London. We have some

(01:28:31):
friends that will be running it as well. I think
my mom is coming out to support, and yeah, Becs
and Tallulah will be on the sidelines.

Becs (01:28:44):
Yeah we will. All right, let's get to the nitty- gritty though. The
thing that everybody talks about for London and Boston, especially
over here and in the UK, Europe, is the training
through winter. So quick fire question. Summer training guy
or winter training guy?

Austin (01:29:01):
Summer. After coming out of this winter, summer training.

Becs (01:29:04):
Yeah.

You and me both my friend. Absolutely.

Becs (01:29:08):
It is brutal if you don't have access-

Dark, cold, windy.

Becs (01:29:11):
... to a treadmill, it's terrible. Yeah, daylight hours are
minimal. It's tough. And I think going into these spring
races, that is an extra element of congratulatory love to
send to all of our runners going into London and
Boston this year. But you mentioned earlier you ran

(01:29:31):
Boston in the famous year that the weather took a
drastic turn for the worst. So you finished it. There
were some very notable elite runners who bailed on the
day, understandably so. Their careers are kind of on the
line and they didn't want to get sick ahead of
certain things. But you and a friend battled the elements

(01:29:54):
all the way. All the to Boston and finished like a
pair of drowned rats, but looking lovely. But what
advice would you give to anyone, because at this point
of recording, we're a long way from both races, so we
can't really see the weather forecast. What advice would you
give to anyone who's running London or Boston and the

(01:30:17):
weather may take a turn, what would you say?

Austin (01:30:21):
I would say experiencing Boston that year, I think it
was 2019, 2018 maybe. But yeah, the famous year of just
brutal weather. And at that time, I really didn't
know how much of a privilege it was to run
Boston and the six stars, it being like most people's

(01:30:41):
last, that or Tokyo. What I did know and felt was
this was a few years past the bombings and the
terrible finish line, there was this sense of community
and a privilege to run it. So the Boston Strong

(01:31:05):
motto just kind of resonated quite well. And I think
that going into London, if the weather's poor, really just
what a privilege it is to be able to run
one of the six majors. And at that time, I
just kind of threw out any goals or expectations for

(01:31:27):
the race. It was more of just, " Hey, this is
going to be a run to the finish line."
And I still ended up having a great day despite
the weather. Duct taping on shoes and just kind of
lowered the head and battled the winds and rains. So
it was a very tough day in Boston that day,

(01:31:48):
but I mean, winter training kind of gets you through
and preps you the most for I think some of
these spring races because there are plenty of cold.
The wind in New York recently has been crazy strong.
You either have a nice tailwind going up or back,

(01:32:09):
but at one point you're going to have to face
it. So I think going into London, yeah, it's just like, " All right,
I've been through this with the training." So just tapping
back into that.

What the winter training does not always prepare you that
well for is a 70 degree day, which is what
we had in Tokyo. And you never know, you
could certainly have in London. It's not known for warm,
sunny days per se, especially not in April. But I

(01:32:42):
feel like in London you could get three seasons in
one race. I feel like that's the thing about London.

Becs (01:32:47):
Totally.

You could get a beautiful spring day and a cold winter
day and a rainy day all in the same race.

Becs (01:32:55):
I agree. I will actually say the same for Boston.
The year I ran Boston, which was 2019, I
woke up to-
... I woke up to ... So yours is 2018, because
I remember waking up and seeing literally sideways rain out
the window and being like, " Oh, no, it's going to
be the same as it was last year, this is
awful." I left my aunt's house head- to- toe in

(01:33:18):
bin bags, covered, and I had my spare pair of
shoes and my spare pair of socks bundled up inside.
I was prepared for everything. By the time we
started that race, it had dried, the rain had stopped,
but it was still wet underfoot. By the time we
finished, I finished that race and then the continuation of

(01:33:40):
that day, Rob, it got to mid- sixties in Boston,
so it really was multi seasons in the day for
Boston too. So it can be just this wild experience
of waking up with dread and finishing with dehydration. Don't
do that though, everyone. But yeah, London's going to

(01:34:01):
be very interesting I think. Let's talk a little bit
about your running journey. So obviously having come from hockey
to Ironman to running marathons, just road running, is there
a part of you that after you complete the six

(01:34:24):
stars, whenever that happens, do you think you're going to
return to Ironman training or something else?

Austin (01:34:30):
Something else seems like a loaded question there. Should
I be? No, yeah-

Becs (01:34:37):
Yeah, I signed you up for The Great World Race.

Austin (01:34:40):
Yeah. We actually have a handshake agreement, and you heard
it here first. What was it we made?

Becs (01:34:48):
I don't remember.

Austin (01:34:51):
I would do the Great World Race if you did
a triathlon, it was something ...

Becs (01:34:55):
It was the other way round. I said if you do the Great
World Race, I will do a triathlon.

Really?

Austin (01:35:00):
Yeah, something like that, like an Ironman.

Becs (01:35:02):
I think I'm pretty safe.

I was going to say, after watching Becs do it, Austin,
is there a chance this could happen or maybe zero chance?

Austin (01:35:12):
Yeah, she would say zero, I'd say about 5%.

Becs (01:35:16):
I am so ...

In the famous words of, I believe it was Jim
Carrey in Dumb and Dumber, so you're saying there's a chance.

Austin (01:35:25):
Yes.

Becs (01:35:28):
Terrible, terrible.

Austin (01:35:28):
So the six stars is obviously ... it became a
reality like 2023 and it looks like I'll be on
track to finish within possibly this year with Berlin in
the fall. Iron Man? Yeah, I would like to do

(01:35:53):
another one. I think there's a goal time that I
have that I was quite close on the last one.
And it was also before Tallulah. The training for
that is just so much time. The efforts, I'd be

(01:36:13):
very ... Becs is about to start training for her next
race. And she went from training just endurance. I was
actually her coach on some of those long runs to
slow her up actually for pace to just time on
feet to now touching back into speed. And I
think that's when, when you're training for a marathon and

(01:36:37):
you do have a goal time, you are doing speed
workouts. And they're tough workouts. It's putting you quite uncomfortable.
Where with an Ironman, I know a lot of athletes
do have crazy goal times, and some of the times
I can't even fathom how they are doing that for
nine hours or eight hours.

Becs (01:36:58):
How long it would take me to swim it.

Austin (01:37:00):
But it's really just, for how I take it
is, it's really just endurance, the time on feet, quote,
unquote, that Becs experienced for The Great World Race. And
yeah, I'm enjoying this process right now, training for a
marathon. I think it's a really good balance of having

(01:37:22):
time for our relationship, to be a parent, to do
other things outside of fitness. And Ironman is a
bit time- consuming. So yeah, right now I'm focused on
just getting these two done. I hit a goal ton
in the marathon, I'm happy with that. If I never

(01:37:44):
hit it again, I'm like, cool, that's what I set
out to do.

Sub three hours, which was ... What was the exact time?

Austin (01:37:52):
2

And that was where?

Austin (01:37:56):
It was the New Jersey marathon.

Jersey City, okay, good one.

Austin (01:38:00):
Not Jersey City, it was in Asbury Park.

Asbury Park, okay, cool.

Austin (01:38:05):
So it was a small race. I worked with the pacing group. It
was just maybe 300 runners, maybe a little bit more,
but it wasn't a big race.

Amazing, amazing. Lots of space. Yeah, well, that can make it easier, space to
run. Absolutely.

Austin (01:38:19):
Exactly. And that was a springtime race. So yeah, right
now just the goals are set on the two marathons.
I would love to get back into some ice
hockey at some point. Not necessarily playing, but coaching to

(01:38:40):
some level, quite difficult in New York, but that would
be something down the road. But right now it's just
trying to just enjoy each race. That's how I look
at it.

Well, I am of course the CEO of New York
Road Runners, and so I will always say, and
I'm also a native New Yorker, that the TCS New
York City Marathon is the greatest marathon in the world.

Austin (01:39:08):
Absolutely.

That said, with respect to all of our colleagues at
the other majors, I generally believe, and I haven't run
it yet, but I've been there, I've experienced it, I've
talked to so many six star finishers, the one that
is closest to New York in terms of the experience,
the environment, the crowds, the energy, the feel, all

(01:39:34):
of the things that make New York special is definitely
London. I think London has that passion in the community
for the event, the crowds are massive. And then the
route and that incredible spectacular finish in the shadow of

(01:39:54):
Buckingham Palace, nobody else can offer that obviously. It's a
really special one. So I think you're going to
have a great time. What are you most looking forward
to in terms of going over there, being in London
and running that race, is it the race? Is it
just being over there? What are you most excited about?

Austin (01:40:15):
Right now I think it's-

Seeing Becs in her native element?

Austin (01:40:15):
No, I think having a good run, honestly, this is maybe a little
bit taboo to say, but the beer afterwards with the friends.

Becs (01:40:30):
The hot beer.

Austin (01:40:30):
Yeah, the lukewarm beer that London serves.

Not taboo at all by the way, the beer I had in Tokyo was epic.

Austin (01:40:43):
Yeah, I mean, the funniest thing, the first marathon I
ever did was the Philly marathon, and my friends had
run it the year before, and they were like, there's
an out and back along Kelly Drive that turns around
in a little town called Manayunk, which is a
very post- college grad area to live. So there's a

(01:41:08):
lot of bars and it gets a bit rowdy there.
And I remember them saying that they had a beer,
they were giving out beer on the course at the
turnaround. And so the next year I was running it
with my twin sister. And I was like, " I'm going to have
a beer at the turnaround." And I remember passing

(01:41:30):
that booth and just the smell of beer at that
point I was just like, no way would I ever
think of that. It's not until you're done, that post
drink celebratory feeling hit. So yeah, I have some good
friends, Becs and I have some good friends in London. Two of them are

(01:41:51):
running. And we've got some plans afterwards. I don't know,
where are we going, Becs, there was some pub
or something that they-

Becs (01:42:01):
I'm not putting that out there on this thing.

Austin (01:42:05):
(inaudible)

Oh, there's lots of pubs. Saying you'll be in a pub
in London is like, there's no way.

Becs (01:42:09):
We'll be south of the river.

Austin (01:42:09):
It'll be like, the Blue Crow Door and you look it up
on Google Maps and there's 15.

Becs (01:42:17):
The Red Lion, there's a hundred Red Lions.

Austin (01:42:19):
Yeah, The Red Lion, there's just a hundred of them. You're like, "
Which owner?" But yeah, we'll see some friends after. One
of them, he actually just had a newborn that's
almost, not a newborn, she's almost a year old, so
we'll get to meet her. Yeah, so will be fun.

Becs (01:42:36):
The dad's running.

Austin (01:42:37):
Yeah, the dad's running. But yeah, to take it in,
I think New York is ... I've lived in New York
now for 12 years. And just each neighborhood you run
through, you almost run through different chapters of your life
if you've spent that much time here and experience it.
And I'm sure the same, I won't have the exact

(01:42:59):
same connections running through London, but I'm sure you
get that sense. If you're not from New York and
run New York marathon, you see the different neighborhoods and
can piece together what that is. So yeah, I'm excited
for London very much.

Becs (01:43:17):
It is a good one for seeing different parts, same as
Boston. There's Boston central where you finish, London central where
you finish. But because they're point to point races, you
do get to see parts of London that maybe
as a first time tourist visitor, maybe even a second
time tourist visitor, you don't go to. Going down to
Greenwich is a trek. The park is beautiful, but not

(01:43:39):
everybody goes there on their first and maybe even second
trip to London. But starting there and then winding through
those really cute little villages into the city and then
back out to Canary Wharf, which is our extended financial
district in London, you get to see so much more
of this cool city. And the big mixture that I
love the most about the route in London is the

(01:44:00):
old and the new. So when you get to see
Canary Wharf, is so new compared to Blackfriars and the areas
that you run through on the last let's say five
miles of the race are so old and historic. You're running
alongside the Embankment with Big Ben and the Houses of
Parliament in front of you. As Rob said, finishing at

(01:44:23):
Buckingham Palace where the king will be waving you on.
It's such a magical place. I hope it's sunny
because the year I ran London, which was 2016, oh
my gosh, 2016, so long ago, and it was a spring
day and there was crocuses and little flowers all over the

(01:44:46):
park. And it was such a beautiful place to start
that being from the UK, I hope that you get
to see that.

Austin (01:44:52):
Yeah, and you may have a different opinion on this, but
when we've spent our time in London, it's quite
a hard city to run in. Whereas New York, you've
got a lot of different running paths in Brooklyn, Manhattan,
you've got Central Park, you've got Prospect Park. There's so

(01:45:14):
many different routes you can take if you need to
go for a longer run. Where London is ... I've enjoyed
some of our runs, but it's always stop- start. Hyde
Park's not a huge park.

Not that big.

Austin (01:45:30):
It's big but it's not that big.

Hyde Park is big, but it's not Central Park, you can't
run a six- mile loop in Hyde Park.

Austin (01:45:34):
Exactly. Yeah.

Tokyo is worse. Tokyo, there's nowhere to run in Tokyo.
You can go run that loop around the palace.

Austin (01:45:44):
But that's it. It was 5K.

That's a couple of miles, but otherwise you're just out
in the streets. People don't, I think they do, but
if you don't, if you're a New Yorker and if
you're listening to this podcast, you're probably part of the New
York runners community, how lucky we are in New
York City to have both Central Park and the routes

(01:46:05):
that we have along the waterfronts. I think next to
Boston or along with Boston, these are the great places
to run. Chicago too, along the lake front. We've got
great places to run in these big running cities in
the United States. And that just doesn't exist in a
lot of these other places.

Austin (01:46:24):
Yeah, you could go from the tip of Manhattan up
to the George Washington Bridge uninterrupted on the path.
And that's, what, 16 miles?

It sounds about right. I don't know. Maybe 12.

Becs (01:46:38):
12.

Austin (01:46:38):
12. Okay. Yeah.

I was saying 11 or 12, yeah. But yeah, you can do
your whole long run just up and down the west
side, absolutely, and be on the water the entire time.

Austin (01:46:46):
Yeah, if you want to cut in, you can cut into Central Park in a number
of different levels, you've got the bridge.

Becs (01:46:53):
Yeah, we're spoiled.

Austin (01:46:54):
We're very spoiled to be able to ... We looked at a
house that was a little bit further into Brooklyn.
And one of the things that I mentioned was just,
hey, this is now a three- mile just to get to ...

Becs (01:47:10):
(inaudible) Park.

Austin (01:47:11):
That's unheard of in New York because if you live
in Manhattan, I think the widest part of the city
is two and a half miles. So if you live
in the-

That's right, just under three miles that's right.

Austin (01:47:23):
You are less than a mile and a half to
at least the east or the west side and then
you can start your run.

That's right.

Austin (01:47:31):
When we travel to different cities, it's just like, oh,
okay, this is the only path I can run on.

Yeah, it's a great, great running city.

Austin (01:47:37):
So yeah, we're very spoiled. I'm excited to run through
London and just have the streets closed down and just
have a fun day.

Becs (01:47:49):
Hear all those Londoners cheering you on.

That's right. And those lovely, lovely accents. Okay, Austin, so
let's get down to business here. So you're going to
get your fifth star in London. Berlin, you almost
ran once, decided not to do it, that's going to be-

Becs (01:48:07):
We ended up going on a beach holiday instead. Let's be honest, Austin, I said
to you, you can run Berlin or we can go to the Cayman Islands for a really nice beach
weekend holiday. And he was like, "Oh, I'll take the Cayman Islands."

I can't exactly blame him on that choice, but okay,
either work really hard and run 26. 2 miles-

Austin (01:48:27):
She called me out.

Or have a pina colada on the beach. It's a
very understandable choice that you made there, Austin. But now
with only this one star remaining, it's going to be
sitting there waiting for you. How would you like to
run the BMW Berlin Marathon this fall, would that be
something that would interest you?

Austin (01:48:47):
I would love to.

Well, I think that we can make that happen for you, Austin. In fact,
we are going to make that happen for you. Assuming
you actually finish in London. We're going to ... If
you don't finish, then the deal's off. But we're going
to hand you a bib for the BMW Berlin Marathon

(01:49:10):
this fall, 2025, through our relationship with them through Abbott
World Marathon Majors. We're fortunate to have some. And we
are pleased to present you that opportunity to run. So
what do you think about that? No Cayman Islands this
year. What do you think?

Austin (01:49:24):
No Cayman Islands this year. Sorry, Becs. One, greatly, greatly
appreciated. Thank you so much for making that happen
to you, Becs and the New York Road Runners team. Yeah, that
will round it out and finish things up on the
six stars. So a little speechless, thank you.

Becs (01:49:47):
I promise you we will go to a European island after
for a vacation.

I think that will be deserved, I think that will be deserved.

Austin (01:49:54):
Fair enough. I will be enjoying the summer training very much.

Yeah, I've been there and done that, and it's
nice, the long days, so much opportunity to run. Yeah,
that should give you a little extra motivation as you
get ready for London and course your way through that
race knowing that that six star is there for you
if you want it this September. And we know you
do. So wish you all the best getting ready for

(01:50:23):
London and for your day there. And it's always great
to have you and get a little look inside the world of
Becs Gentry other than what she does on Peloton
and in our podcast, the man who is behind all that.

Austin (01:50:36):
Rob, if you want me back for the third time, you and I can
just do one.

Becs (01:50:42):
Edge me out. Edge me out.

I like that, we can just talk about Becs on a show,
I think that's a great idea.

Becs (01:50:48):
Not allowed, not allowed, no, vetoed.

Austin, great to see you, good luck in London.

Austin (01:50:59):
You as well.

Thank you. Teresita Gonzalez took up running in 2018
and soon after her brother Luis followed suit. Then after

(01:51:20):
many years sitting in the grandstands watching her two children
run the marathon, their mother decided to lace up herself,
completing her first New York City Marathon at the age
of 65. But it doesn't stop there, keep your
eyes out for this coming November 2nd, because in this
year's 2025 TCS New York City Marathon, the Gonzalez family will

(01:51:41):
be all in. Teresita, Luis, their mother and their youngest
sister will all be on the start line together. Teresita
and Luis are here with us today to talk about
running, family and their upcoming spring marathons. Take it away, Meb.

Meb (01:51:58):
Thanks Rob. Teresita, looking at your race history, it
seems like you were the first in the family to start
running back in 2018, what got you started?

Teresita Gonzalez (01:52:10):
Some health issues that arose in 2017, I decided to
do a 5K. After liking my 5K, I decided to
venture off onto the New York City Marathon website, and
I saw that I could run the New York City Marathon
in 2018. I discovered Team for Kids, and I ran
my first New York City Marathon in 2018. We

(01:52:31):
were fundraising for a wonderful cause.

Meb (01:52:33):
Awesome, Teresita. And you have your brother, Luis. Was it
Teresita, Luis, who inspired you to start running or was
there another moment that pulled you in?

Luis Gonzalez (01:52:44):
I grew up playing soccer, so I think she was
the catalyst behind the decision. We did try to do
a 9+ 1 one year, I think the year before
COVID. So I was in line to run the marathon that
following year. But then one night we stayed out
too late and I missed one of my races the

(01:53:05):
next morning. And so then I had to wait until
the year after and because I didn't have my 9+
1, the only way I could sign up to run
the New York City Marathon was fundraising through Team for
Kids. So that's how it all came together.

Meb (01:53:20):
So sports has been part of your family. I love
soccer as well. But your mother's story is incredible. She
went from watching you race to running a marathon at 65.
What was it like crossing that finish line with
your 65- year- old mother?

We grew up on the course, we grew up on
Fourth Avenue, so every year the marathon was always the first
Sunday in November, it was always around my birthday. So
it was always a good thing to go just run
up the street and see all the runners, get the
high five, just putting your hand out, just watching everybody
run. And in my head I'm always like, these people are

(01:53:57):
crazy, 26 miles, I would never do this. And
then you fast- forward 20 years later, there I am
lining up at the start line.

Meb (01:54:08):
What's your perspective, Teresita, on your finish with your mother?

It was emotional, I had a little bit more experience
with my mom because I was helping her train. I
decided to take back my running season that year to
help her through the run, walking segments, help train her.
That way she felt comfortable. And being able to see
firsthand the emotional and physical wellbeing that it did
to her was great. And then having our family along

(01:54:35):
the course cheering us on, our nieces, our nephew, our
cousins, the whole family out there was very exciting and
was very heartwarming. And now I look forward to this
November, sharing that experience now with my little sister.

Meb (01:54:48):
This is incredible story. So this November, this coming year,
your whole family, Team Gonzalez, your mother, your younger sister,
and the two of you will be running NYC together.
What does that mean to you?

For me, it's a full circle. Lots of things are
happening this year for me personally. But being able to
put my sister out there, have her train for a marathon,
for her to get to know her body on another
level, it's just good family moments for me and happiness
all around.

Meb (01:55:22):
Wonderful. What about you, Luis?

The same thing. Sometimes you take time for granted, you
take family for granted, you're always busy. New York
City's very fast- paced, you work, work, work, work, work.
And then you don't have time for anything else. Even
training for your own marathon, you're like, okay, where do
you fit in the time? Do you have to wake
up earlier? It's still 24 hours in a day, so you
got to make the time. So I think this is

(01:55:46):
good for the whole family to kind of ... it's a
good time to spend together. When we trained with my
mom, we would take her with all our friends, introduce
her to everybody and be like, " Hey Ma, you have
to say hi to these people, these are our friends.
These are the people that are helping you that
donated to your cause, you have to be polite." And
then for my sister, we're trying to help her break

(01:56:11):
out of her shell. And I feel like this will
be fun for her, for her to get this mental
aspect of her, build her resilience up, see what you're
capable of. There is a lot more to do out
there. And being able to, for us to travel 26.2
miles together, I think it'll be a great moment. And

(01:56:33):
the pictures that we have from last year are forever.

Meb (01:56:37):
Absolutely. Family that runs together sticks together. And to see
you guys in a positive environment is amazing. So, Teresita, you
were one of the just six women accepted into NYRR's
first ever Game Changers cohort. Can you tell us what
that program is and what it means for you as

(01:56:57):
a coach?

Game Changer is a program founded by Vanessa. She is
on a mission to increase the number of women of
color in the running industry. So for this cohort, she
partnered up with New York Road Runners and Brooks. And
this is a focus within the five boroughs. I was
one of the six, about 50 women applied in New
York City of color. And this is very special to

(01:57:21):
me. Since 2019, I've been mentoring with Team for Kids,
so I've had friends and family pitch the idea that
maybe I should take up being a running coach.
But I just didn't have the time for it back
then. And now with this cohort, things aligned for me.
And now I have the time to be able to
dedicate myself to study, look up different ... just study and

(01:57:46):
do lots of research on what it is to become
a running coach. And I look forward to helping people
step on the start line for their marathons.

Meb (01:57:56):
Pretty incredible. You have case study with your family, do
a lot of research on, so keep it up. Luis, how is
your training going for the London Marathon?

I think it's been pretty good. I guess, this would
be my third spring marathon. It's always hard. And this
has been the coldest one I would say. I'm a
bigger fan of the cold, but sometimes the cold is
just ... with the wind and everything like that. When you're
trying to get the speed workouts and you got a
headwind instead of a tailwind, it's a little rough. But

(01:58:26):
it's always good, half the battle is just getting out
there and then the rest just comes.

Meb (01:58:31):
The hardest part is lacing the shoes up and getting out
the door. Once you get out, you're going to get it done and you're going to
get even motivated and also inspire others who watch you
run. So good luck there. And then, Teresa, you are
taking the Boston marathon and London within weeks to earn
your six star medal. What's your game plan for recovery
between the two races?

I'm coming back home that Monday night from Boston, so
I'm just going to rest, hydrate and do lots of
ice baths. That way I can have some fresh
legs for the following Sunday.

Meb (01:59:02):
From Monday to Sunday, right?

From Monday to Sunday, yes.

Meb (01:59:06):
Incredible. Well, I'm so delighted to interview you guys. And
thank you for all the hard work that you do for Team for Kids
and Team Gonzalez. 2025 is going to be special. So I
wish you guys all the best.

Thank you so much, Meb.

Thank you.

All right, thank you, Meb. And thank you Teresita and Luis for joining us and for being members
of New York Road Runners and Team for Kids. Great
story. Now today's Meb Minute.

Meb (01:59:32):
Traveling is important. You know me, I'm a visualization person,
I visualize my race, but I also visualize my packing
list. So when you are traveling for a race, make
sure you book your flights and hotels early. Arrive to
a destination early. Pack all the necessaries on carry- on.
I cannot emphasize on this one because I made one

(01:59:54):
big mistake. There's a law that says Murphy's Law, anything
that can go wrong, it will go wrong. And
on a direct flight from San Diego to New York,
I had my first daughter, and we are going to travel. How can
anything get lost on a direct flight? I did not
have my carry- on. I just packed everything check in.

(02:00:15):
And my luggage never made it. So be careful as
you plan your travels. Carry- on is the way to
go. Sometimes time zone, time zone accumulation or adaptation is
important. For me, I used to get up, when I
was in the West Coast, get up really early, 5
AM my time, which is 8 AM in Eastern Standard

(02:00:37):
Time. So you have to be really careful. And as
you travel, gets on that plane, before the plane, you
got a lot of things going on. But once you get on
the plane, you are out of control. Do what you can,
just now relax. As you travel, walk around. It's important
to move around in the plane. Sometimes you go where
the flight attendants sit, go there and stretch a little

(02:00:57):
bit. Tell them about yourself. You're getting ready for a
half marathon, getting ready for a marathon. The flight
attendant might be kind enough to give you water or
snacks and things like that. So my thing is think
ahead, travel well and run to win to the best
that you can on race day. And more importantly, have
fun once you get to the destination. Think about the
race, smell the air, feel the temperature, and soak in

(02:01:21):
all the atmosphere because you are celebrating one of the
great accomplishments you're going to achieve.

Well, that does it for a true marathon episode
of Set The Pace. We had to give you that
of course. Thanks to today's guests, Corey Wharton Malcolm, Austin
Curtis and Teresita and Luis Gonzalez. Great conversations with all
of you. Remember, if you like this episode, make sure
you subscribe, rate it or leave a comment or review

(02:01:47):
so other folks can find it as well. Enjoy the
miles everybody. We'll see you for our special 100th edition
of Set The Pace next week.

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A Special Marathon Episode for Your Long Run - with Cory Wharton-Malcolm and Austin Curtis

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;} A Special Marathon Episode for Your Long Run - with Cory Wharton-Malcolm and Austin Curtis