Breaking Marathon Records One Step at a Time with Calli Hauger-Thackery

Episode Transcript
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Rob Simmelkjaer (00:00):
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(00:21):
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Audio (00:29):
Thank you, New York. Today, we're reminded of the power
of community and the power of coming together. Athletes, on
your mark. The first woman to finish for the second
straight year here in the New York City Marathon is Miki Gorman,
a smiling Miki Gorman. And why not? 2

(00:52):
time for Grete Waitz. Look at the emotion of Shalane Flanagan as she comes to
the line. Pointing to his chest, pointing to the USA he
so proudly wears across his chest. A great day for
Meb Keflezighi.

Hey everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official
podcast of New York Road Runners, presented by Peloton. I'm
your host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road Runners.
And with me, as she is every week, Peloton instructor
extraordinaire, Becs Gentry. Hello, Becs, how are you today?

Becs Gentry (01:27):
Good, thank you, just surviving this cold weather here in
New York City. But weirdly, people keep telling me to
start running. I am really enjoying running outside in this
cold. Now, I know what you're all thinking, " Just because
you went to Antarctica, shut up. Blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah." It's misleading because you think, " Oh, I'm just going

(01:50):
to get out there and have a little bit of
vitamin D on my face." And then you realize your face
is totally covered. So I'm actually forcing myself to run
inside a little bit more because I know me, I'll
end up getting sick. And I don't need to be
running outside, I'm not in a training block. So I'm
teaching myself that the gym is the better place for
me right now.

You know it's funny with running in the cold, and I experienced
all of this on Saturday at the Joe Kleinerman 10K that we
had in Central Park, you have this mental barrier to
the run, at least I do. Because you look out
there and you're like, " This is not a day I'm
supposed to be going outside." I woke up before dawn

(02:29):
on Saturday morning, snow was falling and it just was like, "
I'm going to run a race right now?" And I
drove down that morning actually from Connecticut and get to
the park, the sun starts to come up and all
the runners are there. By the way, we had a great
turnout on Saturday, just about 5, 000 runners came. And I

(02:50):
stood at the starting line and I spoke to the crowd and I said, "
You know what? It is an absolutely beautiful day to
run." Because the snow had stopped and, Becs, the park looked
like a postcard on Saturday morning.

I'm sure, yeah.

It was so beautiful. The snow kind of arranged itself perfectly
for us. It was on the grass and on the
trees, but the road was totally fine. So people had
great footing to run on and it was a gorgeous
day to run. And it took me a while to get
my head around running, but as you say, once I
got going, it just felt amazing. And I ended up

(03:27):
running the 10K and then a lot, lot more that
day because I am, and we'll talk about this in
a later episode, maybe training for something right now. But
it went great. I felt amazing. And sometimes when it's
cold like that, you just feel like you could run forever
and maybe that's what it was like for you in
Antarctica. I don't know. I certainly felt that way on Saturday. I felt

(03:48):
great after a long, long run.

Yeah, it's true, you just settle in. You settle in and
you get it done, as long as you don't get
too hot. I mean, I imagine to some of the
incredible athletes who raced the 10K on Saturday, we're going
to go through the winners very shortly, but then your
body's gotten to a heat level and a sweat level

(04:13):
that isn't necessarily conducive to continuing a steady- state run
in that weather. But yeah, if you keep it chill,
excuse the pun, you'll be good.

Yeah, it's all about those layering decisions and you want to be
comfortable enough at the start that you're not just getting
frostbite. But as your body heats up, to have the
ability to take a bit off here, take a bit
off there, lower a zipper, open a vent, and give
yourself what you need to get through that run. And
I was, I was discarding things as I passed the

(04:46):
finish line because I kept running after the race and
I handed off a jacket and a hat and some
gloves and felt great as I kept going. So it
was awesome and it was a great day. Thanks to
everybody who came out for the Joe K 10K celebrating
Joe Kleinerman, a legend at New York Road Runners, a
man who volunteered 45 years of his life to this

(05:07):
organization and making running a better sport.

A legend.

An incredible individual and that we're thrilled to honor every
year. And the winners on Saturday, it was Brooke Starn
of Central Park Track Club Tracksmith with a winning time
of 35:56 in the brisk conditions. The non- binary winner
was Elijah Taylor, 35

(05:29):
was Jaouad El Jazouli with a time of 30
the Garden State Track Club. That is a blistering 10K.

He was running for his hot chocolate.

That's right, everybody was. We had bagels, we had all
the things you wanted at the end. So it was a
great, great day. Congratulations to everybody who came out on
a really, really beautiful morning on Saturday. And Becs, by
the way, we've got some exciting new stuff coming out
on Peloton right now with New York Road Runners.

We do.

Talk about that. I'll let you give that news-

We do.

... because it's really cool- looking stuff.

Oh, it really is. So basically for all of our Peloton Tread and
Tread+ users looking to stay inside or just wanting to
check them out, we have released two new classes this
week that we filmed at last year's New Balance 5th
Avenue Mile. Okay? So you've got to head to the

(06:26):
scenic library and you can run the iconic race alongside myself
and some other very awesome New York Road Runners' Set
the Pace guests that we've had the pleasure of talking
to, and my fellow instructors, Mariana, Alex K, and Matt
Wilpers. I can't tell you the fun we had filming

(06:46):
that day. Did we all run the ... I definitely ran
the Mile. I think Matt Wilpers also did run the
Mile. So we actually ran it ourselves and then we
waited for everybody else to finish, all the various waves
because as you know, the New York Road Runners New Balance 5th

(07:06):
Avenue Mile has a lot of different waves and then
the kids do their waves. And then we went to
the course and we ran it bit by bit together.
And I'm not going to give it all away, but go check
it out. And then also, I believe there was a
Mariana special as well on there. So I'm really excited. Let

(07:27):
us know what you think of the classes and if
it inspires you to sign up for any races perhaps.

Absolutely. The 5th Avenue Mile is such an iconic stretch
of road. It's such an amazing experience to run down
5th Avenue and it's just an amazing vibe. So I
think that's a really cool thing to have on the
treadmill for those who want to go experience that run
fast on that treadmill and tear down 5th Avenue. I
love that. So I'm looking forward to checking that out

(07:57):
and giving people a chance to experience that wherever they
are with all of these amazing Peloton instructors.

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and Tread+, you can challenge yourself anytime, anywhere. Whether you're
building strength or working on speed, Peloton has a class
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(08:25):
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Becs, we are going to your side of the pond today for our
special guest, a fellow member of yours of Team GB
joining us, Calli Hauger- Thackery. I'm sure this is someone
you know, Becs, from that British running community. Excited to
talk to her?

So excited to talk to Calli. She is such a beautiful light
in the women's running community. Calli has recently absolutely crushed
the 2024 California International Marathon record. She ran a 2:
24. The previous was a 2

(09:18):
unreal, but I think what's super special is the day
that her and her husband had an ... You got to
listen to find out a little bit more about that.
She's setting her sights on 2025 Boston Marathon. And I
think, Rob, I don't know about you, but the lineup
for the women's elite field at Boston, day by day

(09:40):
is becoming so very riveting.

Yeah, it's going to be an amazing day in Boston.
It's also going to be an amazing day in New
York in March. And so when Calli joins us, we'll
have a little something to say about the United Airlines
NYC Half field as well. So teasing that in just a
moment. And speaking of moment, the Member Moment today, of
course, Meb Keflezighi will join us. And he's going to catch

(10:03):
up with New York Road Runners' member, Danielle Grimley, a first-
time marathoner who started the 24 TCS New York City Marathon
out in Staten Island on foot, as most runners did,
but finished the race in Central Park on crutches. But
she did finish.

She did.

And she did an amazing job and has an amazing story to
tell about getting there and ending up being a part
of that incredible final finisher celebration we have after dark
in Central Park. So Danielle is here to tell us
that story and how that moment changed her forever. So
I can't wait to hear Meb's conversation with Danielle Grimley

(10:43):
and her experience with the final finisher. And then Meb
will be back with some words of advice for all
you runners out there who are training for a spring
marathon during these cold, dark winter months. I'm going to
be tuning in to listen to that one myself. I
want to hear what Meb has to say because, let's
just say, I have never trained for a spring marathon

(11:05):
and I just want to hear what Meb has to
say about that. So we'll talk more about that later.

I want to hear what Rob's going to say about
that too.

Oh, the winter months. All I can say is make friends
with a treadmill, whether it's a Peloton Tread or whatever
you can get your hands on because the daylight hours
are just limited.

Oh, gosh.

And you got to do what you got to do.

You do.

It is what it is. Can't wait to hear what
Meb has to say about that.

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Our guest today is an incredibly talented British runner who is
on the rise in the world of professional distance running.
Calli Hauger- Thackery is a Yorkshire, England native turned international
marathon star. She's been steadily making her mark on the
global running scene this past summer as a member of
Team GB at the Paris Olympics, and most recently, a

(12:15):
thrilling win at the California International Marathon. Calli's now preparing
to tackle one of the world's most prestigious races, the
2025 Boston Marathon. And as part of her training, she's
going to be joining us in New York, we're happy
to announce, for the 2025 United Airlines NYC Half. Calli, it

(12:36):
is great to have you here on Set the Pace.
Welcome, and we're so thrilled to welcome you to New York.

Calli Hauger-Thackery (12:41):
Thank you so much. New York, I love it. I'm excited to
be here, guys. It's just a great race. I'm lucky I've done it
before so I kind of know what I'm getting myself
in for this time.

Love it. Oh my gosh, Calli. Well, it's an honor to
meet you from the GB side of things. It's been
incredible to watch you flourish in your career because you
have really come into it with such a great attitude,
a really lovely personality. You're so friendly and bubbly. And

(13:16):
I think it's a change within the world of women's
sports to have that camaraderie and friendship amongst the females
on the start line. So thank you for doing that
for our sport. And massive congratulations on CIM. Wow.

Well, thank you for the compliment, first. That's a big
compliment. Thank you. And secondly, CIM, super happy with it
considering the training beforehand wasn't the best prep. I'm going
through some sleep apnea things. As an athlete, that was
pretty daunting, so just getting on top of that now.
So yeah, several days before, I had no sleep trying

(13:54):
to figure this stuff out. So to pull off a
win, I was very thrilled with in the end. I
mean, Jackie made it very hard for me. I remember
looking back at one point being like, " Wow, I've got
a race on my hands today." But it makes it
fun and that's why I love racing. It's, you never
know. I mean, she smashed it. She got a 3-

(14:14):
minute PB, so she nearly got me at the final stages.
And I just remember thinking, " I've got to turn the
wheels now or else I'm not winning this race."

Absolutely.

So no, it was a really cool, fun experience.

Yeah, and I mean, you didn't just win it. You're
being very humble here. You won it with a 2:
24 and you broke the previous course record by 90
seconds or so, right? You are now the CIM record
holder. It's just so cool.

Thank you so much. It was my partner, Nick. He loves it. It's a big race
for him and he was like, " Well, you can either watch
me or you can race." And I was like, " Well,
you know what? I might as well get involved myself." It was
a really fun event.

Calli, I want to take you back to Paris where
Becs and I both were doing different things and I
know you were there representing Team GB in the marathon,
obviously a really difficult course. It was a challenging day
for you. You ended up not finishing the race. But

(15:20):
what did you take away from that experience that allowed
you such a short time later to have this record-
breaking performance in California?

Yeah, that's the thing. It's obviously heartbreaking having to pull
out of that race. The training honestly couldn't have been
better leading up to it. So it was definitely one
of the hardest decisions I had to make to pull
out of that race. But ultimately I know it was the
right decision because if I'd have gone a step further,
I just know I wouldn't have had a season. I was not in a

(15:53):
good way. And that's the thing with running and what we
do, especially the marathon, you need to get everything right.
So the sleep, the eating, nutrition, everything. And unfortunately, I
found out some sad news with my mum with her

(16:13):
cancer diagnosis just a few weeks before and it hit
me harder than I thought it would. I was working
with my team to try and get my head right,
but with that, I did lose sleep, I lost my appetite,
and unfortunately, I wasn't a hundred percent on race day
and my body was fighting. So yeah, it was really

(16:33):
tough, but ultimately when I dropped out, I was like, "
Okay." It was the worst moment of my life, but at
the same time, what an experience to actually be there and
do the Olympics. And you know what? It made me
so hungry now for future races and for the next
four years, for LA. So I've learned a lot. Even

(16:55):
though it was a really hard time, I've learned so
much from that experience and I will take it with
me and let it make me hungry for the next
few years, for sure.

Yeah, and you already have. I know your mum obviously
had that cancer diagnosis right before Paris. How is she
doing, Calli? What was it like for you? I can
only imagine how challenging it must've been to try to
compete after getting news like that, but would love to
know how she's doing and how the family's doing.

Yeah, thank you so much for asking. She's doing really
good. I think chemo has come a long way. Her
treatment has been a lot better. She had cancer seven
years ago and this time has been a lot more positive.
The treatment plan just makes more sense. And it's not
easy, chemo knocks you down hard, but she's fighting. She's

(17:48):
a fighter, so she'll get through it. And we can't
wait to see that all-clear hopefully in the next few months and then
we go from there. But no, she's doing great. She's really
positive at the minute, so it's good to see.

Fantastic. Such a testament to our bodies, how when we
go through these massive training blocks and then it's our
body and our mind coming together telling us what's really
the most important. And I think that was probably your
body's way of saying, " Hey, you know what? It's okay
to not push through this and to keep that mental

(18:23):
strength there for your family." Because it's probably what you
all needed, was just to come together and for you
to not be exhausted for it. But having said that,
I mean just seven weeks later, there you were in
Berlin and absolutely tearing up that course.

Thank you.

I mean, well, your time there was a 2:21
you do after, body- wise? I don't want to dwell
on your mom's diagnosis, but body- wise, share with our
listeners how you recovered from Paris in just seven weeks

(19:04):
to get that incredible time in Berlin.

I think with me, that's how I deal with things. If
I have a bad situation happen, the only way I know how
to deal with it is just get back up and
just keep trying and I just try to put everything
behind me. We went back to the UK for a
little bit and I just put my head down and,
well, obviously took some time with family and things. And

(19:28):
then I just really reset with family and honestly just
did enough to tick over enough to get me through
a good race because I knew I wanted to do
one soon. The thing was I could have done Valencia
and waited until December, but I was like, " Can I
get through another training block this big?" Honestly, what I

(19:48):
put in for Paris, the training I put in for
that, I was like, "Do you know what? That's not going to go
anywhere." It's like, " I don't want to waste that. I want
to take advantage of the training I've done, I've put in, and
just maintain this fitness somehow and just rip the band-
aid off." And Berlin just seemed like the perfect race
for that. I think a lot of people thought I

(20:11):
was crazy for going in so soon, but for me,
it was just like, I just wanted to somehow soften
the blow from what happened in Paris. And I knew
how fit I was, that was a thing, so that wasn't
a question. It was more just I knew it was
a mental thing and I just had to overcome that. So

(20:32):
I did a lot of work with close ones, getting
myself in a good spot, and before you know it, I was ready.
I felt like I was ready enough to line up
and still do have a good day. So yeah, it
excites me because I know there's a lot more to
come with things going on my side. It was still

(20:52):
a very, very chaotic few weeks and definitely not good
preparation either, but I'm just glad I was able to
do myself proud, at least. I genuinely at the finish, I was
like, "Do you know what? I'm proud of that performance today and it's not been
easy." It was courageous getting on that line, but I
did it. I PB'd and that's all I could ask for right

(21:13):
now in that moment.

So Calli, we were chatting before the show. You and I
actually met briefly on the pro athletes bus on the
way to the starting line in Berlin. You were there because
you're a pro athlete. I was there because I was
a stowaway on the bus, had been let on by
some people who somehow seemed to think I should take

(21:35):
that bus to the start. And I set a PB
too. So I guess it rubbed off on me, all
the positive energy you guys had getting to that starting
line. But it was a great day in Berlin. And
what you say is interesting about just needing to get
right back to running. It makes a lot of sense
to me. From other sports, if you're a baseball player

(21:58):
or a tennis player and you have a bad match,
you want to play again the next day. You want
to get right back out there and just absolutely turn
the page. And that can be really hard to do,
obviously, when you run marathons for a living. You can't
play the very next day as you can in a
lot of sports. And so I can see the mentality

(22:20):
would make you want to get back out there quickly.
And a lot of amateur athletes, Calli, can also relate
to the fitness that you had from a previous race
and not having to let it all go and then start a
whole new training block, but being able to feed off
of a fitness that you developed from a previous race.

Exactly. Yeah, I know. It was one of those, it
was like, " Do I wait or do I just do
it now?" But I think the more I waited, the worse
it was going to get mentally. So for me, I just
had to do it. I know people deal with things
differently, but that's just how I had to deal with

(22:58):
it at the time. And yeah, I'm glad I did
and I can move forward now. I hate that the
Olympics, they put such a big thing on the Olympics
and it's so much pressure. I've never felt pressure like
it. But at least I've done that now and I can take that
and be like, " I can be ready and deal with
it in a way that's going to help me achieve

(23:21):
on the day." And yeah, I don't know, it's tough.
I know it's all pressurized, all of the world championships, all
these world majors and stuff, but I think that was
just a different kind of thing on the Olympics. They
just put so much on that event. But like I
said, I can definitely take learnings from this.

Great. Well, that's what we want to hear because your
lineup for 2025 is pretty spectacular already. So it's been
announced that you are toeing the line for Boston this
year, 2025, Boston, April coming up. You also announced that

(24:05):
you will be joining us in New York for a
very special race to us at New York Road Runners,
the United Airlines NYC Half. So what's going through your
head for those two races?

Those ones, I'm really excited about them right now. It's definitely motivating
me in the cold and the snow and all of
this. Actually, no snow right now. It looks like it's
about to snow, but it's really cold here. But no, I'm really
excited about both New York half and Boston full. I think

(24:40):
they'll prepare me well. New York's going to prepare me
greatly for the Boston Marathon, I believe. I just think,
yeah, both of them just excite me because it's a
race for me. I love a race in terms of it's not super-
fast, where you're just going all out to get this crazy,
fast time. It's tactics and there's so much to it.

(25:03):
And that's what I really love about New York and I
think the same will go for Boston as well.

Absolutely. So the field for Boston, let's say, the field
is slowly coming through to the public here. And I
mean, day by day on Instagram, I've been glued to
it, seeing all of the names of the elite field,
all of the women you're going to be running alongside.
I want to know because I know what I'm like

(25:31):
when I toe the line with my inspirations, is there
anyone who you're really excited to be running with? I
mean in a competitive way or non- competitive way, is
there anyone who you're like, " Yay"?

Oh, definitely. So for Boston, Hellen's doing it, right?

Yeah.

Is Hellen? Yeah, Hellen Obiri. I think if I'm near
her, I'm doing okay. And Emma Bates, obviously on the
American side, she is just so tough. I just think
if I'm next to her, I'm doing fine, and then
Sharon as well. I just think, wow, they are just
incredible athletes and honestly if I can run alongside them

(26:13):
for a long time, then I'm going to have a
good day. So yeah, definitely. But honestly, so many girls
on that start line, I'm like, " Wow, okay. I'm in
some good company."

Yes, absolutely. I'm really excited to see that whole race
take its place. So what's your training schedule looking like
with a half and a full so close together?

Yeah, funnily enough, I do a lot of high intensity
stuff, so I don't do loads. I don't do high
mileage per se. I think compared to a lot of
marathon runners, I don't. I do more, honestly a lot
of 10K, slash, half- marathon zone in my training. So
when I do come to do the marathon, it feels
really easy for a long time because I actually do

(27:00):
way more half- marathon zone work and 10K zone work than
I would marathon pace. I don't know how to run
marathon pace in training. I just like the high intense stuff.
And I like track running as well, so I'm actually going
to dabble in some track stuff over the summer and
things like that. I think it's all important, especially for

(27:20):
me and the athlete I am. On my VO2 max and
stuff, I do really well at even the 5K and
the 10K. So I think the half- marathon will definitely get that
fast twitch going a little bit more and then I'll
be ready to, okay, come marathon date, I hope, for
a long time that pace will feel really nice.

That makes sense. I know it is nice when you
feel like your marathon pace is very comfortable. And I guess the
question is, how long can you keep it up, right?
You're comfortable for a while and then of course the
race does start in the 20- something mile range. So
what's there? What's left to pick it up, I guess,
is always the question, Calli? You come from an athletic

(28:01):
background. Both your parents, athletes. Your father, Carl, professional long
distance runner. Your mom was a sprinter, so I guess
that's where some of that fast twitch comes from.

Yeah, I know. I'm very lucky with my genes, I
won't lie. My mom was a sprinter and then my
dad was more marathon focused and I'm in the middle.
So when I know my dad was doing his best
in the '90s, in 1993 when I was born, and there were people
coming in wanting to interview him and there was this

(28:32):
newspaper article and just read, " Baby, you were born to run," because
of my genes. And it's ironic that I do run
still, I might not have. I might not have chosen that route, but yeah,
no, it's working out so far. I definitely think I'm
more on my dad's side. I try and fake the
fast twitch stuff. I try my best to keep that

(28:54):
going and keep that alive, but I think the marathon
was always going to be the one what chose me,
I guess. I always say that I think the marathon definitely
chose me, for sure.

I was going to ask you about that. When did
you know, Calli? When did you know marathon was your thing?

On my debut. My debut, I did not know I
was going to run 2
was thinking, on a good day, I probably will run 2:
24, 2:25. So when I saw 2
beep), okay, I'm now a marathon runner and this is going to be my event moving
forward. So goodbye to the 5K and we're going to

(29:30):
go all in on the marathon." So yeah, no, it
was funny. It's bittersweet because I do love the track
stuff, but everyone around me has been like, "You're a marathon runner.
Your biomechanics, your family history, everything points to the marathon."
And I just think I tried to not listen to
it. I knew I always was going to do one,
I knew it, I just didn't know it was going to

(29:51):
be now. And funnily enough, I really do enjoy it.
I'm talking about it in a negative way, but I do.
I can't believe how much I enjoy the distance. It's
just so different from the track. But like we were
talking about earlier, the only thing what I don't love
about the marathon is the fact that if one goes bad, you can't just go

(30:14):
and do one like two weeks after. Whereas the 5K, if I had
a bad race, it's like, " Oh, it's not the end
of the world. I can go and jump in one
next week or the week after and I still could actually
turn it around." So it's just different.

Yeah, it really is. It really is so, so different, but I love
the excitement that you have for it and the passion.
And I think it's really inspiring to our younger athletes
out there to hear you say that you're not a
big fan of the high mileage. Because, I mean, Rob
and I speak to so many different athletes over different

(30:49):
distances, not just marathon runners of course, and we have
a lot of different opinions on here. And it's really,
really awesome to hear somebody with such incredible times say
that you don't bust your gut on running 100, 150 miles
per week to get those times. You really are focusing
on those fast twitch fibers, those short, sharp speed workouts

(31:13):
and enjoying it, like dabbling in the track workouts like
you said. And I think what we see are these
communities coming together, but they're still quite different when you
think about, let's say, let's call it New York, the
Armory, the indoor workout, the track workouts versus our outdoor.
So I love the way that you're combining it together

(31:35):
and you are proving that those 10K, half- marathon, those
tempo workouts are useful for both. And I think for,
again, the younger athletes and the older athletes to see, "
Okay, she can go and do these," like, " Hey, Rob,
shush," which you could do it-

No, I'm excited too, Becs, because I feel like Calli's giving me a justification to not run 75, 100 miles in a week.
I don't want to do that and I still want to be able to go
run a marathon from time to time. And so I
think it's a great approach if you can do it.
I also feel like for me, Calli, I don't know
about you, me as an amateur athlete, much, much older

(32:17):
than you, it just also I think keeps me more injury-
free, less likely to get hurt as I'm trying to
get ready for a race. Is that part of your
logic as well?

Definitely, yeah. It's funny because if you looked at my
marathon training before my debut, on paper, you will not
say it's marathon training. It was very much like I
say, I was doing more 5Ks, half- marathon. I did
a few half- marathons within that, but it was very
much a lot of fast twitch, high intensity stuff. And

(32:50):
we were like, " Oh wow, your ceiling is very high."
Everyone around me was like, " Yeah, your ceiling is very
high because we've not even touched on marathon work yet."
So obviously then afterwards, I did start doing more marathon-
based sessions and tried to up my mileage a little
bit, obviously within reason. But it's funny, because I still
find that before my debut that just works for me,

(33:12):
I just realize more and more. I try not to
get caught up on mileage at all. And I love
the versatility of all the events. I think it really
does complement the 5K, the 10K. And funnily enough, people ask me, "
Oh, how different is the training?" And I'm like, " It's
really not a whole lot different, marathon training versus 5K
training to me." Because like I say, I just didn't

(33:34):
do this massive jump where, okay, I've gone from 70, 80 miles
to then 120, because that wasn't the case. I just
think because I got my VO2 max up really high
from the work I did, like the 5K work, that
translated into a really good, strong marathon for me.

Do you think that you maintain some of that speed
work with the memory of the 5K in order for
you to keep that door open to return to competing
in the 5K?

I think a little bit, yeah. I think I'll always
have a soft spot for the track until I can't do
it anymore. I just think there's still a lot of
untapped, unfinished business I still have to do. And it's more for me, honestly.
I know what I can do in the 5K still.
I think a lot of people, my sponsor probably, it's
definitely me based on the marathon. But do you know what? They're great and Nike

(34:39):
have even said, " Yeah." And so I still have bonuses within the
5K and the 10K. I'm like, " Well, okay." So I think this is the year. It's
not an Olympic year. I think I'm going to go
all in. After the Boston Marathon, I can then be like, "Okay, I've done my marathon for
the year and then summertime I can do some track
races and see where it takes me." I don't find

(35:00):
any pressure with it all. I just find it fun.
I just think, like I say, it just mixes it up a bit.
Because if I just fully go on the marathon all
year, if I'm just fully thinking about marathons, it just
kind of takes the fun away personally for me. I
just like to mix it up. And then maybe I finish with a marathon
in December, who knows, all being well, if my body

(35:21):
allows me to do that. But yeah, why not mix
it up a little bit and try and be competitive
still on the track if I'm still able to? I've
still never done a 10, 000- meter race. I've only done 10K
on the road. I've never done a track 10,000 meters
before, so I really want to do my debut this year.

Ooh, heard it here first, everyone.

I like it. Very cool. Calli, you're coached by your partner, your husband, Nick. I'm
always wondering how those relationships go.

Oh my gosh, we do.

It always amazes me when people are able to do that.

It would not work in my house.

I just want to know, how's that going because it
seems like it's going pretty well? So you're going to
stick with that arrangement for a while?

Yeah, I can't imagine being coached by anyone else now.
No, he's amazing. He's just got such a coach mind and
we work collaboratively. He understands my needs and vice versa.
He just sees me day in, day out, so he
knows my energy. He can just look at me and
know when I'm going to have a good day or a bad day
just for my biomechanics each day and stuff. So he's

(36:31):
very good at reading me and knowing when to pull
me back and when to push me. Obviously I always want to push,
push, push, but he's like, " There's a right time for
that." And most of the time, he will allow me
to push a bit, but sometimes it's like, " Okay, this
workout isn't about that. We need to hit these times."
No, he's brilliant. He really has got such a good

(36:53):
coach head on him. And he also coaches many different
athletes. I just trust him wholeheartedly. And I think if
you have that trust in a coaching relationship, you're going
to fly. And it makes it fun and it makes it exciting and
yeah, we really work well together.

I love that. You and Nick, what do you guys
do, like what is a typical weekend in your house,
let's say, leading up to CIM because you were both training
for it? What does that look like for a couple
who are smashing these times?

Yeah, it's funny because obviously he responds better off ... I
just try and roll with him as much as I
can. Obviously I cut my workout shorter. So I don't
know. I feel like if I'm anywhere near him in
training, then I'm doing okay. And I mean, look at the world record now.

Unreal.

If I want to be running a world record one day or anywhere close, I need to
be running what Nick's basically got to run himself, bless
him. So yeah, no, we work really well together actually
in our workouts. Obviously I will just do a little
bit less than him in each rep. So we team
up well together there. And then for CIM, it was

(38:15):
just a crazy week. Honestly, it's gone over my head
because I can't even tell you how crazy it was
with the sleep apnea stuff going on. I just remember
saying to Nick, I'm like, " I just need to get a full
night's sleep. And if I can get a full night's
sleep, then I can definitely win this race. But if
not, it's going to be like Paris all over again.
So I just need to." And luckily, leading up to CIM,

(38:38):
when we got there at sea level, I was like, "
Okay, I can do this. I finally got some good night's
sleep." We were just training together each day and tapering together,
which is really fun. And just being on the start
line with him, it's such a unique experience. It's just
amazing being able to line up with my coach- husband

(38:59):
knowing that it was his main race for the year
as well. It was just exciting.

All right, Calli, so looking ahead to your trip to New York
to join us here for the United Airlines NYC Half,
have you spent much time here in New York? What are
you most looking forward to doing here?

Yeah, I've been a few times in New York. I
do love it there. It's just such a cool place
to be. And oh my gosh, what's not to love
about Central Park and just that area in general? It's
just so cool. Yeah, I don't know.

Is there a museum or a restaurant or maybe a
show you want to check out?

I need to do all that. I need to do it. I feel like I go and see all
the big city stuff and then I never actually take
myself to a museum. I mean Sam looks after us
very well, obviously. Last year, what did we do? We kind of
laid low, didn't we, I feel like, but then I ended
up getting really sick. It was one race. I've never had
it before, but I got really, really sick to the point where

(40:06):
I was blowing my nose honestly every minute the day
before. So I'm like, " I just need to kick it."
So I did all of the things you can think of like
ginger shots, chicken noodle soup. I'm like, " Okay, I'm going
to kick it, I'm going to kick it." And then
actually, miraculously, I woke up the morning of the race and I
felt great. I could breathe again. I'm like, " Okay, I've

(40:27):
got away with this. Wow." So then I'm warming up. I'm thinking, "
Okay, I think I can do this." But do you know
what I did not think about was how the ginger
shots and the chicken noodle soup would affect my stomach.

Oh, no. Oh, no.

So during the race, honestly, all I was thinking about was like, "
Just don't vomit, don't vomit." There's a helicopter above me,
there's people, the cameras were everywhere. And I'm thinking, " Oh
no, this is going to be where I lose all
dignity. I'm just going to end up vomiting on camera." So
as long as I don't have that experience again.

Oh, no.

Luckily I didn't vomit, but my stomach was not in a good
way. I somehow got to the finish line and a semi-
okay performance, but I just can't wait to get redemption from that
and just hopefully not get sick-

I can absolutely imagine.

... and go and have a good experience and get some redemption in New York,
for sure.

Sometimes winning is winning. Sometimes winning is finishing without vomiting, right? So there you go.

Oh my gosh. So regardless, this year's going to be probably a
little more fun. We'll have to talk to Sam and
see what's on to get you guys a true New
York fun experience as well.

Yeah, definitely.

I love it. Well, it's great having you on the
show. One thing I want to know, what's something about
you apart from running that when people come to watch
you in New York, you think they should know about
you as a person? Nothing about running, about Calli.

Oh, I'm going to ask Nick. I'm looking at Nick.
I don't know. I don't know. I'm just a dork. I don't know,
I'm happy- go- lucky, very. People know me as the happy- go-
lucky one. I very much just love what I do genuinely and I hope people

(42:27):
can see that authentically. I do absolutely love what I
do. I feel very lucky and I always get on
the start line and I just think, " I get to
do this." I'm just grateful to be doing what I
do. And I love it when people come up to
me and say hello and things like that. I just
love the running community. I think it's the best thing

(42:47):
ever. I don't know. Funnily enough, I don't know about any random
facts other than running, sorry.

Well, it is what you do. It is what you
do. You spend a lot of time doing it. But hey, a
takeaway for listeners, if you see Calli Hauger- Thackery out there in
New York, she wants you to come say hello. So
say hello. She loves the fans and loves to interact
with people. So that's a beautiful thing right there because
I tell you, our members, our fans, our running community

(43:14):
in New York, they get so excited-

They do.

... when they're able to meet someone who is your
caliber of runner and actually have that person be excited
to meet them. So I think that's a takeaway for
everybody listening who's going to be in New York in March.

Nick's just whispered something as well. He said, " Say about
Australia." So I haven't had the typical route. I lived
in Australia for quite a few years and I was
stuck there during COVID in the end. So I literally
couldn't get away and I was doing farm work just to keep my
visa and things like that. So I've been like a lumberjack in
the open forest in Australia just to keep my visa

(43:50):
and haven't had the normal trajectory a lot of professional
athletes have had. I like to travel a lot and that gets
me into situations sometimes, but it's fun and it makes life
interesting. And I've seen a lot of the world, so
I'm very lucky.

Okay, I like that. So you were actually a lumberjack, you
were cutting stuff down?

I was literally chopping down trees to keep my visa
in Australia, yeah, because you have to do three months
of farm work to stay there. So I was like, "Wow, I've got to somehow get a farm
work job." Me and my friend out there was like, "We need to cut
down trees." And we were getting paid by the hectare.

(44:31):
So I was chopping down trees, I'm like, " Come on,
we've got this." Oh my God.

Did you get to know how to use a chainsaw, Calli, as
part of that or were you just using a plain old ax?

I watched people, but no, I didn't ever use the
chainsaw. It was just like the scissors, the big scissors.

Yeah, wow.

Wow.

Shears.

Yeah, there you go.

That's amazing. There we go, that's endurance for you as well.

Right.

And that's definitely something I think that us Brits, we
really get. Rob, I don't know whether it's the same
in the US but for Brits, we get a three-
month working visa in Australia. So a lot of people
of Calli and I's, probably, age have done that. I
definitely. Calli, it was also a long time ago. I
was 18 when I did that, but I was string

(45:22):
bean picking, really wasn't cool. So I feel you.

Yeah, no. It's so worth it though to live in Australia
for a little bit. It's such a different lifestyle over there,
isn't it?

Exactly.

You definitely feel like down under.

Yeah, upside down.

The benefits of being a member of the Commonwealth all
sounds lovely. You get to string bean pick or cut down
trees in Australia. We just have to go be tourists there
for Americans, but I love it. Calli, great, that's a
fun fact, very funny stuff. And best of luck to
you on the training, getting ready for New York and

(46:04):
then obviously for Boston. But we can't wait to see
you here at the starting line in Brooklyn in March.

Thank you so much guys. I can't wait to be there.

Danielle Grimley, a 41- year- old from Colorado, redefined determination
at the 2024 TCS New York City Marathon. Diagnosed with Ehlers- Danlos
syndrome, which affects connective tissues around joints, Danielle faced an
unexpected injury mid- race that left her completing the final
nine miles on crutches. But thanks to her months of

(46:49):
training, her willpower, and the help of two New York
Road Runners volunteers, she crossed the finish line after more
than 10 hours on the course. Her story is a
testament to the power of community and underlines why New
York Road Runners is so committed to celebrating every last
finisher of the TCS New York City Marathon. Let's hear

(47:10):
more about Danielle's incredible journey as she joins Meb.

Meb Keflezighi (47:14):
Thanks, Rob. Danielle, welcome to the Set the Pace podcast. How you
feeling today? And can you please take us back to
the moment you realized your hip injury derailed your race? What
went through your mind and how did you decide to continue?

Danielle Grimley (47:30):
Awesome, thank you so much. It's great to be here.
Well, this is my first marathon, so what an experience, right?
So I trained for roughly a year. I had some
health diagnosis in the beginning of 2024 that pushed me

(47:55):
back about four months till I can get those figured
out. But once I was cleared to go and start
running, I was pretty excited. I'm a New York kid,
I grew up on Long Island. I've cheered the marathon
on for years, both in person and virtually. So it's
been a dream of mine to participate. So going into

(48:19):
the marathon, unbeknownst to me, I actually came in with the injury.
So I started the race with the injury. I had
a great shakeout run the day before. I was under
the care of a physical therapist, all the things. So
I did everything in my power to prevent an injury.

(48:40):
But joining the race, I did have a hip stress
fracture unfortunately. I had a pretty decent race in the
beginning. I think when I started on the Verrazano, most
people say, " You're going to be really excited and ready
to go." I started on that bridge and I was

(49:00):
like, "Oh, I don't love this." I knew things were a
little off from the start of the race, but I
kind of chalked that up to not every run is
going to be a great run. On my long runs, I did
great on some and others I struggled with and this
was just the cards I was dealt. I was hoping

(49:21):
that I would shake that off in the later portions of
the race. So things were progressing pretty well for the
first half. It wasn't until I got onto the Queensboro
Bridge around mile 15 that I noticed my pace was
really slower than I anticipated. I wasn't going for a
pace goal, but it was pretty slow. And the dull

(49:45):
ache that I had experienced earlier in the race turned into
a little bit more of a sharper pain. And so
from miles 15 to roughly somewhere between 16 and 17, I couldn't
really put weight on it anymore. And I was on
the 1st Avenue where the crowds are crazy and it's

(50:06):
really exciting. I actually was holding onto a stanchion and
someone got me into the med tent, very thankful for
that. I can't remember the gentleman's name. He was wonderful.
He was a volunteer in the med tent and checked

(50:27):
me out. He said, " Look, you can't put weight on
it. You're not going to be able to walk or
run this. I don't think you're going to finish today."
And oddly enough, my immediate reaction was just like, " No,
we're finishing. Do you have crutches?" And he looked at

(50:48):
me and he was like, " Yeah. Yeah, we can get you
crutches." And gave me crutches and then I started the
trek from there. It just wasn't even a decision, it
just was like, " I have to keep going."

And that's marathons, you have to keep going. You mentioned
the incredible support you received from volunteers like Joshua Borzooyeh
and Thomas Kim. How did they encourage you, the impact,
the ability to finish the marathon on crutches?

They were incredible. I mean, I think I had known
about the final finishers program from listening to this podcast
and seeing Kayleigh and some of the other final finishers
in the past online. So I can't remember exactly what
mile they joined me on, but they were with us

(51:37):
for a couple of hours. They started and they were
behind us, so my first initial thought was like, " I'm
getting swept. They're pulling me off the course." And that
was the furthest thing. They waited back patiently and were
reading the situation to see what we needed. They were
incredible. It went from, they were hanging behind us a

(52:00):
little bit to make sure I was safe and that
I had everything I needed. Or if I needed any
med support, they would've called for me too. They were
walking next to me and Josh was pacing me on
an app and making sure, " Hey, you're going to finish,
you're going to make it, you're going to make it."
And even little things. I'd been on the course for
over nine hours and really had only eaten gels and

(52:23):
a couple of endurance chews. They found me pretzels and
it was like, " Yeah." They just really were incredible and
they were with me till the end, till the very
end. And in fact, I haven't asked them this and
we've kept in touch, but I wanted to be like, "
Did your volunteer shift end and you just kind of

(52:44):
ride this out with me?" Because they were with us
for a really long time.

New York Road Runners bring the best volunteers. I always
tell people, Danielle, 90% is mental on race day and
you personified that. How did your training get you to
that finish line, be able to just get it, because I know,
I've been at the time in 2013 New York City
Marathon, my mind says go, but my body says no.

(53:10):
So what was the mental aspect that pushed you to
that finish line?

I think with anything in marathon training, you're always going
to be thrown curveballs, and I had been thrown a
lot of curveballs on my runs, none quite like this.
But I think it's just I wanted to finish so
badly. And then the other piece too is I had
a lot of support. I think it would've been really

(53:40):
devastating to have an injury and not finish. Most races
don't let you finish. There's a cutoff time, so you'd
be injured and wouldn't have that opportunity. So knowing that
there was still hope and that there is a final
finishers program and that they're keeping that open until well
into the dark, really motivated me to get through it.

(54:03):
And anything I could do to keep my mind off
of it towards this. Look, the last two miles were
pretty rough, but there were so many wonderful people still out
on the streets in the dark cheering me on. There
were people on their stoops listening to music who would
get up and start clapping, the NYPD. It was really
incredible and motivating. So that helped from a mental perspective.

Pretty awesome, pretty incredible story. They say pain is temporary,
pride is forever. It definitely showed that resilience to get to that
finish line. So do you look ahead and see if
you can tackle another marathon? What lessons will you carry
forward from this extraordinary accomplishment and are you going to do a marathon?

I think this experience has completely changed my life. And
so because of this, I feel like I can really
do anything. When I have a tough day at work
or something, or I'm weightlifting and I'm like, " Okay, do
one more rep." And you're like, "I don't want to." But you're like, "You did a marathon. You

(55:08):
finished a marathon on crutches, you could do it. Come on."
So it's really made me believe I can do anything.
And while I wouldn't be doing the 2025 New York
City Marathon, I do have hopes to do it in
the future. My family's going to kill me, but I

(55:29):
really would love to do New York again and get
the full experience of running it, even though the experience
that I had was incredible, but it would be really
fun to run it in its entirety, for sure. So
that is a goal.

The marathon is all about resilience and perseverance and get
to the finish line, whether we are in the front of
the pack, the middle of the pack, or the back of
the pack. As you were the second finisher and your
story was told at the New York Times, what would
you like to tell the people about your story?

Oh my gosh. I'm really overwhelmed with gratitude and the
positive outreach that I've had. That was beyond anything I
could have imagined. Even when I crossed the finish line,
I was blown away by the crowds that stayed out.
And what I would share is when you're injured and

(56:21):
you've been out on the course for over 10 hours,
you don't feel like an athlete. I didn't feel really
like an athlete ever in my training. It's just something that
I really wanted to do. But you cross that finish
line and that crowd is giving you all that love

(56:42):
and support, and they are genuinely stoked, they made me
feel like an athlete probably at one of the lowest
times. And so the outreach even afterwards has been incredible.
So I'm just very thankful and I'm very thankful to Josh
and Tom, the volunteers. I feel forever connected to them

(57:02):
because we shared this experience together.

Well, we look forward to having you hopefully run the TCS
New York City Marathon and for a positive experience, but New York does
show the support wherever you are to get to that finish line. So Danielle,
thanks for being on the podcast with us and look
forward to seeing your next marathon.

Thanks for having me.

Wow. Danielle, thank you so much for joining us, an
unbelievable and inspiring story. And thank you so much for
being a member of New York Road Runners. Now it's
on to the final part of our show, today's Meb Minutes.

Cool downs. Training for a spring half- marathon or marathon
presents extra challenges with the bulk of your training taking
place in the winter month, which is why a proper
cool down is even more important. After braving the cold,
take the time to gradually slow your pace and walk
for a few minutes to avoid muscle tightness. Stretching, especially

(57:56):
in the calves, hamstring, and quads, helps prevent stiffness from
the cold weather. Your muscles are more prone to tightness
in the winter, so warming down properly ensures you to
stay injury- free and ready for your next run, even
when the temperature drops. This is what you need to
think about, pre- hab instead of rehab because you have

(58:16):
to think ahead of the stretches that are necessary to
keep your body moving.

All right, folks, that does it for another episode of
Set the Pace. We want to thank our guests today, Calli Hauger-
Thackery and Danielle Grimley. If you liked this episode, please
make sure you subscribe, rate it, leave a comment wherever
you listen so others can find us as well. Stay
warm out there. Enjoy the miles. We'll see you next week.

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