Harry Chandler on Running, Retail, and Representation

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Thank you, New York. Today we're reminded of the power
of community and the power of coming together. Athletes, on your mark.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
The first woman to finish, for the second straight year, here in
the New York City Marathon is Miki Gorman, a smiling Miki Gorman,
and why not? 2

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Look at the emotion of Shalane Flanagan as she comes to
the line. Pointing to his chest, pointed to the USA
he so proudly wears across his chest. A great day for Meb Keflezighi.

Rob Simmelkjaer (00:44):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official
podcast of New York Road Runners, presented by Peloton. Nice
to have you with us this week. I'm your host,
Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road Runners. And
with me, Peloton instructor extraordinaire, Becs Gentry. What's up Becs?
How are you?

Becs Gentry (01:01):
That always makes me giggle. I think every time you
introduce me in a different way, I always giggle. I'm
fantastic. Thank you.

You are an extraordinaire. How many people have I met
in the last months that we've been doing this podcast
together, who tell me that Becs is their favorite instructor? It's
what gets them up, it's what gets them on the
tread. You make a big impact in that Peloton world,
and I'm not just saying that. I hear that all

(01:29):
the time, so I think that's the appropriate word.

Too kind.

Are you surviving this winter? How are you doing?

I'm not training, so I'm good.

Yeah.

I have zero guilt about not getting out there for miles.

That's a good segue.

Which is... Yeah.

... to my situation.

... which is a really good segue to-

... which is quite different.

Why are you not liking this winter so much, Rob?

Yeah. Yeah, because I am training, and I've been alluding to
it, but I always like to hold the news until
maybe a month out, until I feel like I'm really doing it.

We're so similar.

Yeah, but I'm going to run the Tokyo Marathon.

Wow.

I'm going to give this a go. Absolutely.

Let's go.

We're doing this. We're doing this, Becs.

Yes, you are.

I'm excited. I'm really excited. After running Berlin, I knew
I was going to the Tokyo Marathon. I had already
made a plan to go to that event. I have a
pattern of going to usually one international major every year
to represent New York Road Runners. So this was the
year I was going to Tokyo. And after running Berlin

(02:29):
and coming out feeling pretty healthy, I was like, you know what? I kind of running these
events when I go to them, if I can.

Yeah, exactly. Why not?

Sitting around watching people run, it's great, but doing it
is so much better. You really get the experience.

Exactly.

And I can really compare it to the experience of running
in New York, or with the other majors. So I
was fortunate enough to get an invitation from the amazing
folks in Tokyo, our friends, the race director out there,
Yasu and former race director, Tad. They're just a great,
great group of people who run that event. So I'm

(03:03):
really excited. And I think what I'm frankly most excited
about, Becs, is just going to Japan.

A hundred percent.

I've never been. It's such an unbelievable, amazing and unique place on
our earth. And I'm just really excited to visit Japan
for the first time.

Well, first and foremost, I'm incredibly excited for you. I'm
very proud of you for doing it again, getting out
there, getting this second in six months, really, done. And
I will concur. Japan is phenomenal. I questioned everything about

(03:42):
my choice to live in the USA when I came
home from Japan, because I was like, what is wrong with us all
here? We are so rude. We are so dirty. We are
just not cool. We're not cool to each other, especially.
And something that really stuck out to me in Japan

(04:02):
is, even when there's a huge race on, even when
it's as busy as Tokyo is as a metropolis, people
are kind and patient to one another. The subway system
you will see is organized and calm, even though there
are more people probably than in New York riding it.

(04:25):
And I really did take on board with me that
Japanese way of just... We all get frustrated. Someone pushes
in front of you when you're in the line for
the bathroom at a race, and you're cursing them out
on your mind, but you take a deep breath, because
you're like, " You know what? We're all going to get there. We're going to get there."
So I'm so happy you're going to go and experience

(04:46):
this amazing, amazing city, and run 26.2. Because what better
than, I love saying it when I feel like having
a workout, especially if it's a sixty- minute class that
I teach and there's members in the room, I'm like, "
I'm going to do this with you, because there is
nothing better than experiencing what your people are experiencing. And
here we go." Here he goes, the CEO of New

(05:08):
York Road Runners, off to experience another World Marathon major.

I can't wait. If I'm fortunate enough to make it
to the finish line-

You will.

It will be my third star in the Abbott World Marathon Majors-

Halfway to the OG six.

... journey, as they say, the six- star journey as we call it.
So halfway, not bad. I frankly never thought I was
going to run more than one marathon when I first
ran the New York Marathon back in the day. So hey,
every one I add on is more than I ever
thought I would do, so I'm excited about that. Now, Becs,
what I have not been excited about, and I've got

(05:44):
to be honest, is the winter training. So this is
obviously my first ever spring marathon. I have never trained-

Oh, I'm sorry.

... for a marathon in the winter months before. And it
has really been a struggle for me. I think, Becs,
what's getting me through it is the very limited goals
that I have for this race. I am not trying to
set a PR. I'm not trying to do anything. I

(06:14):
just want to finish it. And so I'm banking on
the fitness I had from Berlin to get me through.
But unlike Berlin where I was really, I used the
Run It (inaudible) app when I was training for
Berlin. I was doing speed workouts, and tempo workouts.

You were committed.

... and I was going for it, because it was summer and it was warm. And even
though it was sometimes too warm, I had no trouble
getting out the door for a run.

And we had a lot longer daylight hours to play with too.

That's the thing. Becs, it's the daylight. It just kills me, because-

Awful.

... I've got to do my runs typically at 6:00 AM, 5:
30 AM, before whether my kids are getting up, or
work is starting, and there's just no light. So I
don't like running outside in the dark. That's not a
thing I'm comfortable with, especially when I'm out here in
Connecticut versus in the city, where it's a little bit
easier to do. So where does that put me?

On the treadmill.

It puts me on a treadmill. And I know at Peloton-

Careful what you say.

Really, Becs. This is really, I've got to get myself on the Peloton track.

You do.

Because I'm just going and doing treadmill workouts on my own,
and I just can't stand it. It just kills me to
run on the treadmill.

We need to get you a tread class (inaudible) .

So I've got to get in a Becs Gentry running class on the tread, because it is just
a struggle for me to run on these treadmills. I've
learned that about five miles is my max at this point on a tread.

Oh, wow.

And then I'm just done. I can't mentally get myself any
longer than about 45 minutes or so on the treadmill.

Have you done any combo? Tread start and then finish
off outside?

I have not done that. I should probably try that.

Try that when you're in Connecticut, because as you say,
it's easier in New York, because you'll generally find a
bunch of other people in New York who are willing
to pack it up and go for a darker early morning run,
because I think it's more sensible to run in a pack in
the darkness, for sure. Especially for women too. But I
do like that, the tread start, if it's a super

(08:10):
early morning start, especially if you want to turn over
the legs, and maybe do some faster work. And then
head out and finish off the easy miles outside, bundle
up, obviously change out of your sweaty stuff, bundle up
for the cold, and get it done that way. And
I think vice versa. If you've got a long run
and it's icy out, get your easy part of the

(08:30):
long run done. If you've got a combo, I like
to get people running a bit of faster times in
the long runs nearer the race, just to turn the
legs over. Pop that onto the tread, so you're not
risking slipping on the ice and snow if it is
on the ground, but it's patience. And I've got to tell
you, as much as it's awful on the tread for

(08:52):
a long time, and I say that with love as
a Peloton instructor who instructs very long classes, our classes,
it's different. There's distraction. We're entertaining you whilst you're doing it.
But if you are just on a simple tread with
no screen and no Peloton instructor, it tasks your brain
almost as much as your body to stay on it
for X number of miles that you have to do.

(09:13):
But when those races are boring, or those races are
not going well, or if you listen to music, your
headphones died, or your phone died, I'm sorry, but you're
going to have to get through that mental battle. So
sometimes I do prescribe longer treadmill work in order to

(09:34):
train the brain, because you might need that as much
as the body training on race day, if all went
wrong. You don't want to bail on a race, because
your headphones died. That's lame.

I tell you what, that's great advice. It really is. It makes a
lot of sense to me that you would tell people
to do that. And it's funny, you're mentioning this bailing
on something for the headphones. This morning, Becs, true story.
I did not get on the treadmill this morning, because
my headphones were not charged. I was like, " No, I
cannot do this this morning." So I put my headphones in

(10:07):
the charger, and I'm going to run later this afternoon
outside. I have a little window I can run today,
but it's literally, the idea of being on the treadmill without the-

Without noise distraction.

... the music, without the news or whatever the show I was going to watch. I was like, " No,
no, no, no. That's a step too far for me. I can't do it." And I missed
a run, because my headphones were not charged, so if you're out there-

If you were my client, I'd be telling you off.

Oh, well, you know what? I can see. You can't see right
now. The look on Becs' face is one of disapproval,
but understanding.

Serious disapproval.

But understanding.

Yes.

So for those of you out there who are struggling
through this winter training session, first of all, some great
tips from Becs there, but I just want you to
know, I understand. I really do understand, and I think
really it's just learning some tricks, I think, to get
through it-

It is.

... and to find a way through these short days,
and these cold days, to achieve our goals in the spring.

It is. Well, talking of cold running, it was a pretty cold weekend
here in New York. It wasn't as cold as we
have had, but it was still a little nippy. It
was a bit gray as well. It was a bit
of a double whammy of meh.

Oh, Becs, make no mistake. Sunday morning at the New
York Road Runners Manhattan 10K, it was freezing.

It was. It really was.

It was very, very cold. I think the-

It was windy too, wasn't it?

The wind luckily wasn't so bad-

No. Oh, Brooklyn.

... but it was 18 degrees. It was 18 Fahrenheit at the start of the race.

No, thank you.

It was absolutely frigid. And I just want to first
of all give some love to our staff, and our
volunteers, because getting out there, starting to set up at 2:
00, 3:00 in the morning, out there all night. Before any
heaters have been set up and tents have been set
up, they're doing the hard work in the wee hours
on these cold nights. Our staff, our folks based in

(11:59):
Manhattan, we've got a whole staff based at the warehouse
that we have out in the Bronx, who come to
these races early and start setting things up. They are
heroes on days like that. So I want to thank them, I
want to thank our volunteers of course, for being out
there. And I want to thank the runners, because I
thought we'd have maybe kind of a high no- show
rate. It was a beautiful day. The sun was out,

(12:20):
it wasn't too windy, and that was enough for 7, 858
runners to cross the finish line in the Manhattan 10K.
This, by the way, was a big year for this
race, because it's now joined the Five- Borough Series. It's
the first race of the Five- Borough Series this year,
first time it's ever been in that position. So this

(12:40):
was a really big race, and we were thrilled to
see such an amazing turnout for that race on Sunday
morning. The winners were familiar names, the non- binary winner,
Elijah Taylor, 35:47 third race in a row, Elijah has
won their division for the women. Former Set the Pace
Member Moment guest, Khia Kurtenbach was first, with a time

(13:02):
of 34:18. I saw Khia at the finish line, had
a chance to congratulate her. And on the men's side
it was an El Jazouli, but not Jaouad, who we've been
talking about a lot. His brother, Issam El Jazouli won,
with a blazing time of 31:15. Becs, there was no one
close to Issam El Jazouli brother as he crossed the finish line.

(13:25):
On Sunday, I had a chance to chat with him
a little bit. He runs for a garden state track
club or running club out of New Jersey, and did
a phenomenal job. So congratulations to Issam. His brother Jaouad
won the Joe K and the Fred Lebow. So those
brothers are hot right now, and they're doing really well.

So well. My goodness. Yeah, it was chilly. And yeah, I'm happy. I had
nearly two hours on the tread on Saturday.

How nice for you.

Teaching.

It was a good day. Good day to be on
the tread-

Good day to be inside.

... doing your thing on that beautiful Peloton treadmill. Absolutely. All
right. Well, Becs, we've got a great show today.

We do.

Coming up, we've got someone who really is one of
the most impactful and inspirational people that I've met in
my time as CEO of New York Road Runners, who
works in the running industry. Harry Chandler, he's the co-
owner of the Charlotte Running Company in Charlotte, North Carolina.
And he's one of the few African- American retail store

(14:29):
owners in the United States. He's had an incredible journey
to that position. He's also the president of the Running
Industry Association. So he's made a great impact on running,
and we can't wait to talk to Harry about his
journey, and everything he sees as vital to running a
diverse, equitable and inclusive space for everybody, both the runners

(14:51):
and the people who want to make it their living
as well. And then Becs, our Member Moment today we'll
be with Team for Kids runner, Annabella Espina, who's training
for Tokyo as well. That's right. I'll be seeing Annabella
over there. And then Meb will be here for today's
Meb Minute. And Meb's going to give us pointers about
what shoes you should be running in when your marathon

(15:14):
training requires a lot of long runs in icy conditions.
Okay, I need to listen to that.

Ready to level up your running? With the Peloton Tread
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you need to crush your next race, and then recover

(15:42):
from it. All access membership separate. Find your push, find
your power at onepeloton. com/ race- training. Peloton, the official
digital fitness partner for New York Road Runners.

Our guest today is Harry Chandler, who is quickly becoming
a real leader in the world of running. A passionate
runner whose journey began over two decades ago in Michigan,
harry is now the co- owner of the Charlotte Running
Company, one of the very few black- owned running retail
stores in the United States, and it was voted best

(16:16):
running store in America in 2021. Not only dedicated to
the industry, he also loves running. And he's got a
real vision for a more diverse and equitable running community. Harry
was recently appointed the president of the Running Industry Association.
Beyond his professional roles, Harry is deeply committed to advocating

(16:37):
for underrepresented communities, emphasizing social responsibility in everything he does.
And Harry, I've had a chance to hang out with
you a couple of times in the New York Road
Runners offices and seeing you around the industry, doing the
amazing things you do. It's great to have you on
Set the Pace. Welcome.

Harry Chandler (16:54):
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I was just there last week.

Yes. Yes, you were. You've got kind of a public speaking thing,
that you really have become excellent at as well. We'll
talk about that in a minute. But let's just start
with your story. And I always like to ask people who
are unfamiliar to our audience, who come on this show,
how'd you start running? Where did this path into running

(17:18):
even start for you?

It came in a weird space, in my actual career,
working at a running store back home. Initially, you'd never
see me running. I was football, and it was punishment,
but I was real quick working in a 7- Eleven
back home in Okemos, Michigan where I'm from, ironically enough.
And this gentleman, Tony Thomas would come in every day

(17:40):
after he left work, and he would say, " Hit me,
Harry." And I knew exactly what he meant, because he
wanted half a pint of black velvet. And he would
run to the, and he would grab his Mountain Dew.
Then he'd come to the front and he'd go, "Harry, you're
better than this place. We've got to get you out
of here. Come work with me." I'm like, " Tony, I
don't want to work with you if you're drinking after
every shift. What is this job?" He finally wore me

(18:01):
down, and I ended up at the semi- annual sidewalk
sale at Playmakers in Okemos, Michigan where I grew up.
My first introduction to a specialty run shop, I'd never
been inside the door of one. And I walked in,
and it was otherworldly. It was 15, 000 square feet of a
waterfall, and saltwater fish tanks, and stairs on either side.

(18:22):
And I'm like, what is this place? So I head
to the back. There is a huge sign that says, "
Head upstairs, take your name tag, take your binder and
have a seat." So I did that. And then someone
walks up the stairs behind me, and they neglected to
do that/ but I said, you know what? That's none
of my business. And we start having a conversation. And
then the next person walks up, and they do the

(18:43):
same, and then the next and the same. So I'm
like, wait a second. So I grab a handful of
binders and name tags, and start walking around to people,
asking them what their name is and then hand them
their binders. And then John Benedict, who you may know,
JB, owner of Playmakers at the time, walks up behind
me and taps me on the shoulder and goes, " Hey,
do you work here?" I was like, " Not at all. This

(19:03):
is my first day. I should probably sit down." And
I did. He walked away from me and headed over
to his business partner, Tom Keenoy. And I found out
later that he told him that if I made it
through that he would hire me. So made it through
the sidewalk sale, got a call from a Marty Novicki,
who's still working at Playmakers now, was offered an interview,

(19:24):
came back and sat down with Karen Haley, who is
no longer with Playmakers, but she was a huge part
of my grooming in the specialty run industry. And I
was hired. JB was a mentor. It took some warming
up, a slow burn, so I was younger at that
time. So it was a lot of late for shifts,
a lot of missing shifts, and he was the first

(19:44):
person to challenge me, because my parents were the cheerleaders,
right? My mom and dad are from Mississippi, my dad's
French Creole, my mom's from the South. Their son can't
do any wrong. So that was a new opportunity to
grow for me. So JB probably fired me, and hired
me back like 17 times. It's like, " Hey, get out-"

Good boss.

Yeah. He's like, " Go home, and come back when you
know what you want to do." And I'm like, " Okay, I will." So
I ended up going to get my masters. Then I
went to go work at a company called Global Orange
Development, headquartered in East Lansing, Michigan. I was their store
development coordinator. So I helped franchisees find the best socioeconomic
location, bid their build- outs to contractors, hire in new

(20:29):
staff, and then I moved on to the next one. It
wasn't fulfilling for me, but it was a great opportunity
to learn in practice. So from there I went back to
Playmakers, of course, worked for JB a little bit as
a sales associate, then went to footlocker. com and did
sales forecasting. So my background is quantitative methods and statistics

(20:50):
So I did forecasting. How many Pegasus should you buy
next year, based on how many you sold this year?

Something that's very important in the retail industry.

Very.

You don't want to overstock or understock. You want to
get it as close to right as you can, absolutely.

Yeah. Stayed there for two years. Footlocker did take care
of us as far as compensation is concerned. So I
was able to call JB, of course go back to
Playmakers again, and I said, " I've got to get out
of Michigan, man." I was in Wausau, Wisconsin where Foot
Locker's headquarter is. It's cold there. Now I'm back in Michigan.
It's cold here. " Who do you know?" So he gave

(21:24):
me a list of people, and I emailed at least
25 people. And at one point, I get a call
back from him that says, " Look, stop reaching out to
my friends. Pick a place." So I took a call
with Donnie Forsyth and Charlotte where I am today, call
on Monday. He sounded so much like JB. Everything he
had to save was just reminiscent of JB. So I

(21:44):
took the job on that Monday, found an apartment on
Tuesday, and was in Charlotte on Wednesday.

And there you go. And you've been there ever since.

Ever since I was 12 bucks an hour at the
new store when I started. And then I managed and
assisted managed Fleet Feet, then reached out, and got offered
a job with them just due to my background with
Global Orange and store development. And then Scott and I
talked in his living room. Scott founded Charlotte Running Company,

(22:12):
and he's actually my partner, co- owner of Charlotte running
company as well, and said, I don't want to go.
But I understand, it's a small business and you can't
necessarily give me this. It's your retirement plan. There is
no backup. You put everything you have into these businesses,
and secession says a rock star will buy it and your
family will be able to retire. So he created the

(22:33):
position of general manager. So I didn't leave. Thank God.
And then another conversation with Fleet Feet, back on Scott's
couch, crying again, because that's what I do. I'm like, " I
don't want to go. We've got to figure something out,
so give me a month." He and I went to
Beef 'n Bottle in Charlotte. It's a steakhouse. Well, I
like the ones in New York. That's what it reminds

(22:53):
me of. It's dark, it's moody. You can hear the conversation of the
table next to you. And the quote was, " Harry, you
care, and sometimes I think you care too much, but
that's what matters to me." And he slid a Manila
envelope across the folder for me. This is in 2020. And
it was at that point that he asked me to
be his partner at Charlotte Running Company, Incorporated. So that's
when my ownership started with CRC.

So he went from employee to owner, which is not
an easy thing to do, Becs. And clearly it was the
passion that he had for what he was doing that
got that envelope slid across the table.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Harry, that is a story of perseverance. It's a
story of love and passion. And one, I'm sure a
lot of our listeners will be inspired, and if not,
feel some sort of recognition of themselves in there as
well. But I want to rewind a little bit to
high school for you.

Yeah.

You've said in numerous interviews, what started you as a
runner was actually a really darn uncomfortable day. Yes, you
said earlier it was punishment. (inaudible) , a lot of
people say that. In the USA I can't tell you
how many times I'm like, " What happens when you guys

(24:09):
go to school? I don't understand your sports teachers here,"
because 99% of people I meet is like, " Running was punishment."
I'm like, " Do you guys need some new teachers in
this country? Because in the UK they're not that cruel."
Anyway, let's rewind past that. But you've said that you
went out for a 100 degree heat run.

It was hot.

But that started your passion?

That's when I realized, oh, I might like this. So
my parents went out of town-

Which is absurd, by the way. Most people are like, "
Hell no. Way too hot. Going to expire. Bye bye."

It was an opportunity to get lost, and it was
in a perfect moment, like a time where I just need to just
go for a run. I needed to get out of
my head. And my parents are going on vacation, and
Ms. Joni is next door. She's awesome. Her and her family
are still there, but Ms. Joni watches the block. And
if anything is going on, she is very aware. So
I head out of the house, it's high nineties, almost

(25:02):
a hundred at that point, and I just head for a
run. So I go down Hollow Brook, I turn onto (inaudible)
, and I'm running down there, and I end up at
a park. And then I come back. And of course she's
coming out of the house and she's like, " Harry, come
over here. What is wrong with you?" I'm like, " What
did I do?" You know what I mean? I'm stunned
and shocked. And she was like, "Get in here. Do you know it's a hundred degrees outside?"

(25:24):
So she shoves me in her house, and gives me
a bottle of water and has me drink it. And
she's just talking to me and telling me, " You're crazy,"
and all this other stuff, but she's doing it in
love, of course. " Your parents wouldn't want you out here
like that." And then had a conversation with her that
lasted maybe 15, 20 minutes, and it ended with, I'm in
love with running. I like the chance to go out
and get out of my head, to challenge my body,

(25:47):
to push the limits, which I've done too many times
with my stints with rhabdo that I've had staying at a
hospital because of it, but I fell in love with running then.

Oh, wow. Wow.

The sport of it.

The sport of it. And you've taken that now. You
sound like you are now the Miss Joni of the running, and
especially DEI and running. You're like the Miss Joni of your
era now. You're watching out for the block, the whole
community, making sure it's running right, making sure everyone's doing
the good things. So that run has brought you to

(26:19):
where you are today. And I had a little look on your LinkedIn. I like
to have a little look about how people work, especially
in a professional manner. And the amount of people, Harry,
who have written on your achievements, " Congratulations, but no surprise,"
because you get these incredible awards and you get recognition.

(26:43):
But everybody is so loving towards you. You deserve it
for all the work you've done. And you are somebody
who has always run. There's a lot of people in
this industry who don't really run, but they can do
business, but you've done both. So let's talk a little bit
about DEI in the running world, as well as in

(27:04):
the professional space, but in the running world. I don't
want to say it's a hot topic, because it always
should be a topic of conversation, but in the current
climate we live in right now, it's icy. It's like, "
Whoo, what are we talking about here? Let's dig into
this a little bit." So because you started in high

(27:27):
school, because you started as this young kid in such
an incredibly tight community, what do you think your first
experiences of racial equity and inclusion? How do you think
that shaped where you've come?

I say it all the time. I was protected and
sheltered for sure with the community that I had at
Playmakers. It was in the middle of rural Okemos, where
somehow there was a mix of everybody that you could
think of inside of that store. So it gave me
an opportunity to appreciate differences without even knowing that that

(28:00):
was something that I was learning. You know what I mean? I
was loved on by so many different people of so
many different ethnicities, and so many different sexual orientations, and
so many different physical abilities. So I would say that
in that bubble or ethos is kind of where my
grooming took place, and where I grew in the industry.

(28:22):
From a racial standpoint, I don't think I experienced any
negative contention until I got to Charlotte. And at that point,
I had lived experiences, and I had mentorship, and I had
people to help me navigate that in a way that
I was almost fully proud of. And then in some
instances, where I feel like I could have done a little

(28:44):
bit better there.

I asked Ted Metellus this. We had Ted on our
podcast last week, talking about him being the first black
race director of the TCS New York City Marathon. I
asked him, " Why does it matter? Why does it matter
that there's a black race director?" So Harry, I guess
I would ask you in what you do and the
role you have in the running industry as an entrepreneur, an

(29:09):
owner, things like that, why does it matter that you're
black? People want to talk about DEI and hold you
as an example, but does it matter? Why does it matter?

Yeah. Me being black is a huge part of it.
What I'm doing while I'm black is even larger. I
preach it everywhere I go that you can't be what
you can't see. And in Charlotte, the level of disparity
in our economic system, it's tragic, right? Three out of

(29:40):
four people born into poverty in our area die in
poverty. And it just so happens that the majority of
them are minorities or underrepresented people. And if those underrepresented,
or those minorities can't see a person like me achieving,
and working towards things, and doing things for the positive
and better of our community, they don't know that as

(30:01):
an option for themselves. We we did a really cool
charity here, called Bad Prom, and it's exactly what you
think it is. You dress terribly. And then prom king
and queen or whoever raised the most for this organization.
And one of the subsidiaries was the Wesley Ministry. And
what we were to do was to pick some kids

(30:22):
up, take them and get some clothes for their mock
interviews. So I asked one of the parents, or I
asked one of the students to take a permission slip,
go get his parents to sign it, so that we
could take him to a local mall. And when I
named the mall, he said he didn't know what that
was. Is that an amusement park? And that's here in
Charlotte, and it's 20 minutes from where he lives. So that's

(30:44):
why it's important for me to be black, and be co-
owning a business, and to be speaking on platforms when
they're available, and to be talking to you all today.

Ted started his answer the same way. You can't be
what you can't see. And that was his whole ethos of,
other people need to see me here in this position
in order to aspire to make changes in their communities,
and do the same as what you're doing. So Harry,

(31:19):
you work for some incredible organizations, RIA, Running Industry Diversity
Coalition as well. I love those guys. I love Kiera.
I adore her. We happen to always end up in
the same restaurants together. It's so weird. And we always
end up sitting and having food and a chat. But

(31:40):
can you just talk to me a little bit about
those organizations, and some of the things that you are
super proud of, that you've championed whilst being in the
roles there?

First order of business, stepping into my time as president
of the Running Industry Association, was to correctly define the incorrectly
defined term of what DEI means for anyone, but specifically
for our organization. A lot of people make DEI and
affirmative action a synonym, so it's instantly a race thing.

(32:17):
Some of those same people don't know that DEI also has
provided and made provisions for them, right? DEI is escalators,
and elevators, and wheelchair ramps. DEI is nursing rooms for
mothers. DEI is clinical psychology, and therapy for veterans. It's
so much more than what the three of us look

(32:37):
like. And it's meant to make us a community, and
it's meant to make space for everyone else. So that's
what we're working on now. So we decided to get
an advisor to offer us perspective and lens for the RIA
that would be coming in, looking at our events and
programming, looking at our education, looking at our marketing, making

(32:58):
sure that we are moving forward in the correct definition
of what DEI is. And I'm very proud of that. We
are hiring a member manager who has accepted. So that's
a new role for us we didn't have before. And
with the RIDC, they know I don't play about them. I
love them, 10 toes down for the RIDC all the time.

(33:20):
Kiera is a dear friend of mine. Abigail, Betsy, Sông
now as the new president. I love them all. And Sông's here
in Charlotte with us, because she's with features too.

Really?

Yeah.

Ah. And you are the chair, right?

The retail subcommittee.

Retail subcommittee. Okay.

Yeah. And it's essentially making sure that when someone walks
into a specialty run shop, they see themselves. That's the
role there. I've been so inspired in so many of
our aspirations by the RIDC, including our recreation of their
ever famous cookout that they put on at the running
event. And we just did our second annual cookout, Community

(33:56):
Unity Cookout. Just last Saturday here in Charlotte. We had
easily 250 people coming through the shop. We had a
speaker come in, Hailey Mangrum. She's a colleague of mine,
went to Western Michigan with me. And she spoke on
community, and innovation versus collaboration, and what that looks like.

(34:17):
And she talked about leadership, and our burdens as leaders.
And we had some really good conversations. And we did
a group run, which was great. Black Men Run Charlotte
led that. We had food trucks, we had music. Kids
were playing. We had the street block. It was an
old time block party, and it was great.

Phenomenal. Phenomenal.

Harry, I'd love to ask you a little about just
the industry now, and the role of the kind of
specialty stores in the retail ecosystem of running. How hard
is it right now for people in that space, who
have smaller stores? You're not necessarily part of a big
chain. What does that look like day to day? What

(35:03):
brands are you carrying? Is it pretty much everything across
the board? And if you're out there as a runner,
why go to a specialty running store like yours, versus
going to a much bigger sporting goods chain, or something like that?

Yeah. So we carry about 15 different brands. We try
to row in some niche brands, things you can only
get from us. And we also include the bigger guys,
so your Nikes, your Adidas, your Brooks, Asics, so on and
so forth. Specialty run shops. What you won't get shopping at .

(35:38):
com, sitting in your living room, is the connection. And
that's a requirement for people. We need to be connected.
Community is a requirement for us. I say it all
the time, that we're a reflection of our community, the
people that poured into us, the people that are working
with us, and the people that we're serving and pouring
into. That's what you get in a specialty run shop.
It opened my eyes to an entire different life, and

(36:01):
changed my trajectory by just listening to Tony Thomas and
stopping by a specialty run shop. Introducing me to John
Benedict, who's one of my best friends to this day,
and was a mentor then, and poured into me. You
don't get those opportunities, unless you come into a shop.
You don't get to connect with people that love the
sport. You don't get to connect with the people that
love the community. You don't get to collaborate with the

(36:23):
people that care about your journey in health, and in
fitness, and what that could honestly do for your life.
Last Friday... I am going to cry. I am.

It's cathartic. Let it out. It means you care, right?

I want to hear what happened last Friday.

Last Friday, I had an appointment with my friend Brantley
here in Charlotte who owns a meal prep company. And
I needed to be there between the hours of 3
00, so I had a window to go get these pictures
taken for some advertisement for her business. And I promised
her I would, so I owe her a coffee now.
But 3

(37:02):
make it. It's around the corner." And I start walking towards the
door, and this lady and her son walk in. And
I start talking to them, asking them all the qualifying
questions, what brings you in? Any injuries? How'd you hear
about us? What are you going to do? And I'm just
biding my time. I'm like, at some point somebody else
is going to come over here and I'm going to be able to say, "
This is ( insert name), and they're going to finish this

(37:24):
up with you." And nobody came. And I'm like, " All
right, we've got to get to work." So I sit
down with her. Her name is Ashley, and she actually
is a trainer at the gym I go to, and
I had no idea. And her son, Jackson, is sitting
down with me. And we're just laughing, having conversations. And
I asked him, " What are you going to be doing
in these shoes?" He said, " Well, I lift some, I
cross train, but I'm also going to be doing some

(37:45):
running. It's the only thing that makes me happy." And
he said that. And I was like, " I haven't heard
that in so long." Kids coming in, their parents are
dragging them in, because they need spikes for cross country.
And this young man is running, because it makes him
happy, and it changes his physical and mental state. And
I said out loud to him, I was like, " You're

(38:05):
going to make me cry, man." And his mom said
the same thing, " I'm going to cry too." So she
started up, and then I started up. And then we
finished up the process, and then they left. And I
called Jen. And I said, " Jen, I'm going to make
your day right now. One of your trainer's sons came
in and got some shoes from us, and he said

(38:26):
that running's the only thing that makes him happy." Before I
could get it out, she said, " Harry, I know exactly who
you're talking about." And out of their privacy, I won't
go too far into the conversation, but that young man
is living in, and overcome a very dark time. And
because of running, he was able to dig himself out of it.

That's beautiful. And so lucky that he has found that
as well.

Yeah. You don't get that online.

You do not. You do not get that online. And he's probably
looked at you, and thought that maybe Harry could be
a mentor to you, or the inspiration. And the happiness that
you gave him in that interaction maybe ignited something even
more in that love for running.

One of the other things you don't really get online
is learning about yourself as a runner, right? Those questions
you ask, if you're an experienced runner or a new
runner, there's a lot to learn about ourselves as runners.
What kind of strides do we have? What kind of
strike do we have when our foot touches the ground?

(39:33):
What injuries maybe we might be more prone to, because
of the way that we run? And what kind of
shoes, or orthotics, or other things we might need to
help us run with longevity and health, as well as
of course, whatever speed we're trying to achieve. So running

(39:54):
is such a personal thing. There's so many ways to
run out there. You go to a race, and you
look at ten people go by, they're all going to
have something a little different going on, stride length, what
their arms are going to be doing, how their leg
falls, how their foot hits the ground. It's just so
personal, Harry. And there's no right way or wrong way.

(40:17):
There's ways coaches might tell you to do things, but
at the end of the day, what gets you from
point A to point B is the right way. But
there's so much personalization that runners really need to be
healthy and successful.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Our beautiful differences. One thing I love about the in-
store situation, and especially with younger teenagers, that sort of
age of kids who either are punished at school, or
they love it, is the fashion that comes with it.

(40:52):
And it's so easy online to just go onto whatever big
brand is of the moment and think, oh, I saw
my favorite musical artist wearing that brand, so I'm going
to buy those running shoes, but they don't suit you.
And then the punishment, and the pain and everything just
gets worse, and the running love dissipates. But you come

(41:12):
into a store like yours, and you get to actually
have those conversations. You get somebody who is going to
show you even deeper care for you and your running,
to find something that fits. It may not be the
coolest of shoes, but I think that it's really important for
us to keep going, that coolness and fashion isn't always

(41:32):
comfort. Anyone who's ever worn high heels can tell you
that. But it's definitely that personal interaction where again, you
are going to look at that young man and help
him on this journey to even more passion. And it's
like a running glow up for him. He loves it
already, and you've just got him these new kicks that

(41:54):
are going to excel for him. And that's just so
cool, because he's going to remember his mom obviously, every
time he looks at those shoes, because she got them
for him and went with him. But he's going to
remember you as well, which that's heartfelt. And to me
from having read a lot about you, that's how I
feel your journey is. People are going to have these little nuanced moments of, "

(42:17):
Wow. Yeah, that was Harry, and Harry did that for me, with me,
to inspire me and better me." It's so beautiful, but
oh, my goodness.

If anyone knows me, they'll tell you I cringe at
recognition and accolades. I do. If you read my bio, I start sweating, I want to throw up. And it's just like,
hurry up and finish, get to the last sentence. But
I just want to serve people. I do. And I found
out long ago that that was what my calling was.
I didn't know in what capacity it would be. I

(42:48):
didn't know how it would evolve. I didn't know it
would be anything past tying shoes on people's feet. You
know what I mean? And once you fully set into
what it is that you're supposed to do, and achieve
some type of self- awareness in that and start working
towards it, everything just falls into line where it's supposed to.

So Harry, I'm sure there's somebody out there listening to
this podcast who loves running, and would love to make
it their livelihood, start a business, get into this sport,
and really become part of the industry. Regardless of their
background, Harry, what advice would you give someone who wants
to be part of this industry? Who wants to be
an entrepreneur, and really grow a business in this space?

You have to work in a specialty run shop if
it's your intention to own and operate one. So I
would start there. You need to learn the fit process.
You need to learn buying patterns. You need to learn
accounting. You're going to be a janitor, so just get
ready for it, right? You're going to be a therapist,

(43:51):
so get ready for that too. There's HR. It's continued
ed, for sure. So any opportunity you have to connect
with someone who has the capacity, and you can spend
some time in a shop, I would 1000% say, start
there. Yeah.

It really is, that's the base of the pyramid really,
in the running industry, is that specialty runner shop, that
place where somebody gets their first set of running shoes,
or cross- country spikes, and starts to learn about what's
out there. Even I probably need to go into those
places more often, Harry, just to see what's up, to

(44:27):
hear what's hot right now, what people are buying. I'll
probably learn something myself about what's going on in the
industry, just based on what people are buying.

Come on down to Charlotte, North Carolina. I love house
guests. I just had Dave Patterson from Brooks stay at
my house.

Nice.

I tell people all the time, " If you're in town,
don't get a hotel. Pop by."

All right. You wouldn't have to ask me twice, especially in
this weather. Yes, I'll happily come on down.

Watch out, or you're going to have us down there. Harry, when it comes to using social
media and your platform to promote the work you're doing,
to promote racial equity and inclusion in the running space,
what advice would you give to the younger generations right
now, in order to keep doing that successfully?

Be responsible, right? It's your burden, because it's your platform
to serve your specific community in the way that suits
them. I say it all the time, collaborate, don't exploit.
So what is missing? What is needed? How can you
work together with that community and your platform, to bring light
to it? Be specific about what it is, the messaging

(45:36):
that you want out there, because once it's on social,
it's there forever, regardless of if you hit delete or
not. And just have intention, right? What are your goals?
What are your values? Who is your community? Again, I
circled back and I've probably said it 32 times, but
there's an audience that I'll have that Rob won't. And

(45:58):
there's an audience that Rob has that I'll never get. And
the same thing for you, Becs, and so on and so
forth. And in those different audiences are the communities that
we were talking about, the people before you, the people
with you, the people coming after you. So you have
to consider them, and consider them with care when you're
doing it. Integrity and consistency goes such a long way.

(46:18):
Kindness goes such a long way. And if you carry
just those, that base value with you, as you're making
your journey towards whatever it is and you're emerging as
a leader, and a speaker, and an influencer, you won't miss.
You can't.

A hundred percent. Absolutely right.

Collaborate, don't exploit. I wrote that down, because that really
just hit the chord in me.

I love it.

If you hear that in the Peloton class, I promise you I will be quoting
you, but I love that so much. It's a great,
concise way of explaining how to be responsible on social.
Thank you.

Yeah. No, it's really good. So Harry, what are your
future plans for the Charlotte Running Company business? Expansion plans?
You got some new stores you want to open up,
or expand outside Charlotte, take over North Carolina or the
Southeast? What's the plan?

I'd say, I'm the optimist and my business partner's the
realist, because I'm like, " Yes, 75 stores, let's get it
going." And then Scott's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's go
over to South Carolina and look at the new shopping
center that's opening, and let's talk about it in two
to three years." We just expanded our Riverwalk store to
3000 square feet. So it is beautiful. There's a bar

(47:37):
in there, and Brooks poured like a lacquer over the
top of the bar. Customers dropped off all their medals,
so they can come in and get a beer, and
see their medals. We're right on the Catawba River. But
for us, honestly, I would love to see new stores.
I would love the opportunity to offer and/ or provide
what JB did to me, and what Scott did to me.

(47:58):
For example, being Armani McDonald. He manages our Dilworth store.
And should he choose, and his family choose to stay
with us, there's every intention of making sure that he
has that opportunity. So those are my goals for us.
I have been talking about, praying about, writing about a
fitness foundation, forever. We talked earlier about the disparity in

(48:24):
economics and wealth here in Charlotte. And a lot of
private schools, even our public schools are all pay to
play. And I don't know if I believe that you
should have to pay to experience fitness. Far be it for us
to gate keep running, and you can't join the team
if you don't pay $1, 200, or you can't play football

(48:45):
if you don't pay $ 2, 400 and buy all the
equipment, because you can't afford travel. So I want to
find some way to work with the city of Charlotte
school system, Charlotte Running Company, any other network of friends
that I have here, so that we can bring that to
use, and so that they can get the opportunity to
have what I'm sure we've all felt at some point
about the sport of running, or any other sport or

(49:05):
activity that they want to be involved in.

Well, Harry, as our listeners can tell, you are a
force of nature. You are doing so much in this
industry, not just as an entrepreneur and a business person,
but really as a real leader in the sport, and
making the sport a more inclusive place. So we appreciate
everything you're doing, appreciate everything you do for New York

(49:30):
Road Runners as well, because you do a lot with
us and for us, helping us to keep ourselves on
message. You work a lot with Erica Edwards- O'Neal, our
chief diversity officer, who has done such a phenomenal job,
and by the way, who just won an award this
week at Running USA for her incredible work, and impact

(49:54):
in the sport of running. So congratulations to Erica. And
Harry, congratulations to you for everything you've done. Thanks for
coming on today, and we can't wait to see what
happens next.

Thank you.

Annabella Espina has been a proud member of New York
Road Runners since 2011, and her marathon journey is nothing short

(50:25):
of extraordinary. Starting with just a 5K in 2009, Annabella has since completed
27 marathons, raising over $25, 000 for Team for Kids, which
of course is our charitable fund at New York Road
Runners, along the way. This year, she's taking on the
Tokyo and the TCS New York City marathons, representing not

(50:48):
just her passion for running, but her dedication to empowering
young people through New York Road Runners programs. Annabella was
with us last year, as she prepared for London. And
she's joining us today to share with us how her
Tokyo training is going, and what it means to her
to be on the verge of earning her sixth star.

Meb Keflezighi (51:07):
Thanks, Rob. Welcome to the podcast, Annabella. How are you feeling today?

Annabella Espina (51:11):
Hi, Meb. Thank you. I'm feeling great today.

Well, it's good to be with you again. I know
we did the London Marathon last year. But what inspires
you to take on the Tokyo Marathon? And how does
it feel to be so close to completing all six
Abbott World Marathon Majors?

I made the decision to run the Tokyo Marathon, because
I've never been to Japan, so that's number one. But
then number two, I figured I was so close to
the six stars, and there's a little bit of peer
pressure from my running friends who already have the six
stars, that I had a little kind of FOMO going

(51:54):
into it. And I tried to get the spot with
Team for Kids, because I love fundraising for this great
organization. And I was lucky enough to get the spot,
and I'm now in full mode training. It's been a
bit intense starting the year with the training, but I'm
very excited for Tokyo.

And as you should, and you're going to be very
proud come March 2nd after Tokyo, because I still get
the pressure. Well man, we got your beat. We haven't
done the Abbott World Major marathons yet, so you're going
to be okay after that. But can you tell us
about your memorable moments from your 27 marathon journey, that
still makes you smile and motivates you today?

So out of my 27 marathons, I've done TCS New
York City Marathon 12 times since 2013, because in 2012
we were not able to do it, because it was
canceled. And then when COVID hit, I did do it,
but virtually. So I think my proudest moment is to

(52:58):
be almost a streaker on the New York City Marathon,
because it is definitely my favorite marathon. I know this
conversation is more about Tokyo, but I think that running
New York City Marathon every year, and especially being able
to fundraise with Team for Kids for that marathon, it

(53:19):
doesn't matter if I have a spot, a lottery, I
always up fundraising with Team for Kids, just because that's
what gives purpose to my running. And it makes me
smile to know that with my running, I am helping
kids become athletes, or better people, and just make them grow personally.

Well, we're grateful for all the great work that you're doing
for Team for Kids, but you've been doing that for
over a decade. What advice would you give to the
new people who are looking into fundraising, or mentoring for Team
for Kids?

I think the first advice is to be open and
friendly. This is an amazing community map. I think you've
seen it over the past few years, being our ambassador
for Team for Kids. It is an amazing adult group.
Yes, we fundraise for kids, but yes, it is the

(54:22):
best community I've ever seen and been a part of.
I'm not in New York anymore. I spent 10 years
in New York, and I'm in Miami now, and it's
still my family. My best friends are from Team for
Kids. So I think when you decide to join Team
for Kids, fundraise for Team for Kids, you become part

(54:43):
of a community, and you get all the support you
need for the fundraising piece. You get webinars, you get
mentors. Also mentoring, I've been mentoring with Team for Kids
since I think 2014, so it's been over 10 years
as well, I've been a mentor. And it's just such

(55:03):
a feeling of satisfaction, being able to help, not just
the kids, but the other adult runners who are maybe
struggling with their first marathon, or their first fundraising event.
And I don't know. I think that whoever is thinking
of joining Team for Kids to fundraise for a race
doesn't have to be a marathon, just do it. You

(55:29):
will not regret it, because it is really a great
community that you'll want to be a part of.

It is a wonderful community, Annabel. I've been very fortunate
to be an ambassador for Team for kids. And the last
night that we do before the TCS New York City
Marathon, people have even asked me, " Come to dinner with
us." They're so inviting. And I went to that, and had some
great time, whether the first time or the fourth time.
And (inaudible) that just Team for Kids inspires so
many people. But what do you say to somebody who's

(55:55):
starting their running in their thirties? What advice would you
give to adults, and who think it is too late
to start running?

It's never too late. I can tell you. I started running
in my thirties. Before that, I would not even run
to catch the bus, not do anything. And one day
I said, " Let's sign up for a 5K." And I started
from zero, like run, walking. It doesn't matter. As long
as you move forward, you're fine.

That's it.

If you have to walk a little, that's fine. And
also, I have to say, Matt, that during all these
years, mentoring and running with Team for Kids and training
with them, I have seen people not in their thirties starting to
run. I've seen people in their sixties running their first
marathon, I think even almost seventies. So it's never too

(56:46):
late to, either if it's a dream of yours, a
bucket list, something that you just got inspired with, something you've
ever always wanted to do, it doesn't matter. It's never
too late to start. And with Team for Kids, you
always have that support of the training, especially if you're
in New York, it's easier. But it's never too late

(57:08):
to start, as long as you are committed and you
have the motivation.

I definitely agree. It's never too late. And whether they're
in the thirties, forties, fifties, or sixties, I always tell
people to do one marathon in their lifetime. And if
you get the bag, that's okay, but at least if
you do it, you know you can overcome so many things,
and you make friends along the way. So how do
you balance the physical and mental challenges of a marathon

(57:33):
training, especially when you're juggling multiple marathons a year?

So I'm not going to say it's easy. I think
it requires a lot of commitment, and vision to the
end goal. During a year, I run between two, three
marathons,, and maybe I throw in a lot of other

(57:59):
races, sometimes like an ultra marathon here, or a shorter
race or a trail. And it's all about balance. So yes,
I train. I'm not a fast runner, and I always
try to get better, but I also incorporate a lot
of mental well- being activities, such as yoga, stretching, at

(58:25):
least once a week, just because my body is, I'm
not 20 anymore. We have to add more and more
of that. And also, to stay healthy with my running
this year, so this training cycle, I wanted to turn

(58:45):
it up a little bit on my health. And I
started also strength training, and Pilates classes to do more
core, because I realized that yes, running is great, but after
you run all these years, all these marathons, you need
to build a little bit better on the muscles. And
I have to tell you that I've been in strength

(59:07):
training for two months. Yesterday, I ran one of my
18 milers. Nothing hurt. Yes, of course I was tired,
because it's 18 miles. You're always going to be tired,
but no pain, no soreness. All day, I walked all
day. This morning, I woke up, I went to the

(59:28):
gym. It's been a big difference. So I think that
you have to, yes, running, but also balance it with other types
of cross- training, so that your body adjusts a little bit.

Great tips. I really believe now, the drills, or core
exercise, or agility helps, especially as we age, to help
you the posture up, and to run 18 miles and not
be sore, because that's a lot of testament. As you
prepare for Tokyo Marathon, Annabella, we want to wish you all the best as
you earn your six stars. So happy and proud of
you, and thanks for all you do for the sport, and for Team

(01:00:03):
for Kids.

Annabella Espina (01:00:04):
Thank you, Meb. I'm very happy to be here, and hope
to see you soon.

Meb Keflezighi (01:00:08):
Sounds great.

Rob Simmelkjaer (01:00:09):
Oh, thank you so much for joining us. Annabella, I'm so
excited for you to get that sixth star. I hope
to see you there at the finish line in Tokyo.
Maybe I'll have a chance to put that medal around
your neck. That would be amazing. Thanks for being a
member of New York Road Runners. Now, to the final part
of our show, today's Meb Minute.

Meb Keflezighi (01:00:28):
Winter shoes. When training for a marathon in icy conditions, selecting
the right shoes is crucial for both safety and performance.
Look for a shoe with a good grip, or trail-
specific traction to help prevent slipping. Some shoes are designed
with water resistance upper, to keep your feet dry in

(01:00:48):
snowy and slushy conditions. If you are running on ice,
regularly consider adding a removable traction device, like Yaktrax or microspikes.
Make sure your shoes are also well padded for comfort,
as you will likely be running on harder uneven surface.
The right footwear can make all the difference in preventing

(01:01:09):
injuries, and staying on track with your training. It is
very important to wear the right shoes, because you're going
to be running on an even surface, and be able to just
be comfort. And for me, when I was in Mammoth
Lakes, California, I used the Yaktrax to help with the
stability, so I'm not slipping away, and for ligament or
muscle tears. So be careful. Make a wise decision.

Rob Simmelkjaer (01:01:31):
All right, gang, that does it for another episode of
Set The Pace. We want to thank our great guests
today, Harry Chandler and Annabella Espina. If you liked the
episode, please go ahead, rate, subscribe, leave a comment or
a question for me or for Becs in the comments,
wherever you listen. Hope you have a great, great week

(01:01:52):
of running. For those of you training for big Spring
marathons, stay warm, stay safe and enjoy the miles. We'll
see you next week.

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