July 31, 2025 • 57 mins
This week, Rob announced that he’ll be running the 2025 Chicago Marathon for Team for Kids, with Becs coaching him to a Boston Marathon qualifying time. Tune in to learn what Becs has planned for Rob’s training program. Featured on the show is guest Patina Miller—Tony Award and Grammy Award-winning actor and avid runner. She’s completed the TCS New York City Marathon twice and recently ran the 2025 TCS London Marathon in pursuit of a six-star Abbott World Marathon Majors medal. Tina is also a mother, and this summer, is serving as a mentor for the 2025 cohort of our Run for the Future program. Plus, Meb interviews Leanna Scaglione for this week’s Member Moment. Leanna is the 2025 national ambassador for the Children’s Tumor Foundation and is aiming for her fourth Abbott World Marathon Majors star at the 2025 Berlin Marathon. And don’t miss the launch of our special TCS New York City Marathon Meb Minute series, where Meb counts down the miles to the finish line and offers training tips.
FOLLOW NYRR: Instagram | Facebook | X | TikTok | YouTube
SUPPORT: Support the Set the Pace podcast! If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
DISCLAIMER
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Patina Miller (00:00):
In my career, if I work really hard, I can
get the things that I want. That's how I've lived
my life. If I train hard, if I work on
my voice, if I train my body up enough, I
can get on stage and I can be there eight
shows a week. At some point I will do better
and at some point I will get the role and someone
will say yes. So I brought all of those things
(00:22):
to running like, you know what? I'm going to train
right, I'm going to try and get my nutrition right.
I'm going to do all these things and that's going
to take me to the place that I need to go.
Rob Simmelkjaer (00:34):
Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Set the
Pace, the official podcast of New York Road Runners, presented
by Peloton. I am your host and the CEO of
New York Road Runners, Rob Simmelkjaer. And joined again from
across that little thing called the Atlantic Ocean by my
friend and Peloton instructor, Becs Gentry, who's back in her
(00:55):
homeland of the United Kingdom, joining us from London. Hello,
Becs. How is London treating you?
Becs Gentry (01:01):
Good afternoon. It's fantastic. It's gray and slightly chilly, a
little bit drizzly, not meaning to take anything away from
what feels like the face of the sun apparently in
New York, but London is divine.
Rob Simmelkjaer (01:17):
Gray and drizzly sounds amazing from a running point of
view, not from a beach- going point of view so
much or a pool- going point of view. And we
don't want to give that up because it is summer
and we love those things. But from a running point
of view, 50s and drizzly sounds really nice.
Becs Gentry (01:33):
So very, very good. Yep, I'm excited to be here,
reclaiming the miles on my stomping grounds that were eight
years ago and longer. It's been pretty cool. Though I
will say I thought New York roads were very uneven
and pothole- y. And I'm so mistaken. They are, but
(01:53):
we don't often run on the roads unless it's a
race. The sidewalks are a lot better than the pavements
here in New York because they're so old here that
they're all higgledy- piggledy everywhere and you're just like... The
amount of times I've nearly gone and rolled my ankle
because it's just old that I'm like, " Huh, I'm going
to start to appreciate New York a little bit more right now."
Rob Simmelkjaer (02:16):
Higgledy- piggledy, that is clearly a British term. Only a
Brit would say that, but I get it. That's why
I've tried to run on the cobblestones of places like Paris
before and my ankles, which are prone to turning, not
a thing. Not a thing for me.
Becs Gentry (02:32):
It's rough. It's rough.
Rob Simmelkjaer (02:32):
I love it, I love it. Glad you're enjoying yourself in your
homeland. Well, back here in New York, Becks, we had
an incredible weekend this past weekend, not one but two
amazing events. We launched our first ever Start Line Series
in Queens on Saturday. This was, to remind everybody, a
free two- and- a- half- mile run. It was untimed,
(02:54):
unscored, open to all paces, and we produced in a
partnership the New York City Department of Transportation and their
Summer Streets program. And it was so great. We had
so many runners come out. About 600 folks came out
and started this free race. So many of them were first-
time runners. They ran down Vernon Boulevard and it was
(03:18):
just awesome to see this, to see so many young
people and new runners out there. So it was great. We
were thrilled at how this went as a first- time
event and we're going to be doing this again August
23rd in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. So anybody out there, you're
new to running, you just want to go have a fun run, car-
free tour of Crown Heights, go to New York Road
(03:40):
Runner's website, nyrr. org, and we will drop a link
in the show notes as well. Sign up. I will
be there for that one and I cannot wait to see
that event happen again because it was really a successful first-
time event for us. And there's spaces available, they're not
sold out, so sign up, show up and we hope
to see everybody out there,
Becs Gentry (04:00):
Rob, tell me, is it all day or morning? What's the schedule?
Rob Simmelkjaer (04:03):
The race happens first thing in the morning so that
we can get the folks down and have their run
and then we give the streets back to everybody else
who's going to be strolling for the day. So on
these hot summer days, morning is the way to go
anyway, as we both know.
Becs Gentry (04:17):
So true. Oh my gosh, get down there everybody.
Rob Simmelkjaer (04:20):
Yeah. Yeah, so very happy about that. And then the
next day, Becs, was our New York Road Runners Team
Championships Five- Miler, always a big day in Central Park
for all the club runners out there. And again it was-
Becs Gentry (04:32):
Looked pretty cool.
Rob Simmelkjaer (04:33):
Yeah, these are some of the most hardcore dedicated runners
in our New York City running community and they had
a great day. The individual results, I'll name out, I'll
call a few names. Felicia Pasadyn, she's been an incredible
runner, kind of a new discovery in the New York
Running Circuit. She won the women's side with a time
(04:54):
of 26:43. She's from the new club of 212 Athletic.
You might remember Felicia also won the Brooklyn Half. The non-
binary winner was Jacob Caswell at 28:30 from Front Runners
New York. And on the men's side it was Ryan
Kutch from Central Park Track Club, Tracksmith with a time
of 23
(05:19):
the team side, the women's team was Central Park Track
Club. Non- binary, Front Runners New York. And the men's
winning team was Brooklyn Track Club. So hope everybody had
a great day at the team championships. Sorry I missed
it, it's such a fun day. I'll be there next
year for sure because I love that event and hope
everybody had a great, great day. All right, Becs. We are
(05:46):
here taping in the last week of July. And as
I talked about last week, I am running the Bank
of America Chicago Marathon. By the way, I did not
mention, as I should have done last week, that I
am running again to support Team for Kids. You'll hear
later in the show our guest today, Patina Miller, talking
about her role as a mentor for our Run for
(06:08):
the Future program. That's one of the many amazing community
and youth programs we have at New York Road Runners
that benefit from the funds raised for Team for Kids.
So of course , as the CEO of New York Road
Runners, I'm running to benefit Team for Kids and would
love your support. I need your support, we need your
support. The link to my personal Team for Kids fundraising
(06:29):
page is in the show notes, so please check it
out and I would really love and appreciate everybody's support.
And then speaking of support, Becks, there's the support I'm
going to need to try to not only finish this
marathon but also try to accomplish my goal of running
a Boston qualifying time of three hours and 30 minutes.
And right now, I'm just kind of still working to
(06:52):
build that base. I ran 14 miles over the weekend
as my long run, so that was good. That's actually probably a
little ahead of schedule, right?
Becs Gentry (06:58):
I think you're going to be fantastic. Sub 3
we're looking at what? A sub just around a 7:
25 pace, I think is what we're looking at maybe.
Rob Simmelkjaer (07:09):
Slower actually. I think if I get it done on
the mile side it's more like a just under eight
minute pace. Yeah, which is-
Becs Gentry (07:15):
Just under eight minute pace, yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (07:16):
Which is where I've been. That's really where I've been as a runner for
a while. As I was joking with you last week,
I haven't gotten a lot faster as a runner over
the years, but I've also not gotten slower. My times
have stayed kind of the same.
Becs Gentry (07:32):
I like that and that means that the only way
is up when it comes to this next race. So
I've sort of jiggled it around for Rob. He's going
to be peaking at about a 22- mile- long run around
a month away from the race. And we're going to do drop-
down. So I do love to do that for my
runners, is I don't like it to be always a
(07:53):
consistent build all the way up to that longest run
and then the drop- down to the race because especially,
I'm going to say this out loud, don't hate me,
but for older runners, we want to get up, I
include myself in this category now, we want to get
up to those larger mileage weeks before the race, have
a drop- down to let the body recover, and to
(08:15):
highlight anything that we may need to work on and
then we'll have the chance to work on before we
peak back up for the race. So that's how Rob's
training is going to look. It's going to have a
little drop- down relatively soon because he's already out that
14 mile mark. We'll probably go up to 20, drop
you back down, and then you'll work your way back
(08:36):
up to 22 before the race. And he is going
to be doing some speed work, my friends, because if
you've been on the East Coast, you know this summer
has been brutally hot and humid and sticky and everybody
I speak to, Austin is training for Berlin and he's
struggling with speed work. He's just really... Long runs of
(08:56):
speed work are suffering. So it's about getting on your
tread, ideally a Peloton tread. I'm going to get you
into my classes and we're going to do some speed
work, just some... It doesn't have to be complicated. It
does not have to be overly fast, okay? Simple workouts
doesn't mean it's an easy workout, a simple workout, repetitions,
(09:16):
getting your cardiovascular capacity increased and strong in air conditioning
is good. So for my treadmill haters out there, I'm
sorry, but you may have to suck it up this
summer because there's goals and there's stubbornness. So all I have to say on that matter.
Rob Simmelkjaer (09:33):
Yeah, it makes sense, the treadmill angle, Becks. And I
actually went out this morning and got on a treadmill
just to try to do a few mile repeats at
a good pace and I don't know, there's something going
on with my speed ability right now that just is
off. And it's weird actually between a workout and a
race. And I'm sure people out there can relate to
(09:53):
this. I struggled this morning to do a couple of
mile repeats, like one mile and then a break and
one mile and a break, at a time that is
a time I ran a four- mile race in June
at, I think it was about 6
mile. So I rattled off four straight miles in Central Park
(10:14):
at the pace that I cannot now reproduce on a
treadmill for one mile. So something is going on and
I think it's probably a mix of weather exhaustion and
just some mental fatigue that I may be having as
well because it is not happening for me right now.
Becs Gentry (10:32):
No, and you're right, it's fatigue. It's also, we talk
about comparison being the thief of joy when we compare
ourselves to other people, but we do have to bear
in mind that comparison to our other self, our older self,
our past self is included in that statement. So yes,
you could do it, you can do it again, but
right now there's a lot of other factors, external, internal,
(10:54):
that are affecting you. Also, one mile on the tread
is a while for repeats, so I think (inaudible) -
Rob Simmelkjaer (11:01):
Too much maybe. Yeah.
Becs Gentry (11:01):
Yeah, (inaudible) too long. I like to think if we're
a distance- based, distance- driven runner, when we come to
the tread, we delete that and we go to the
other variable, which is time. And we sit into something
else because we're too used to distance outside. We know
how it should, I'm air quoting for those of you who aren't
watching us, should be feeling. So we switch it to
time and we'll start doing some four- minute repeats on
(11:25):
the tread. So it puts into its own category instead
of mileage, which is so, so familiar outside, but-
Rob Simmelkjaer (11:32):
I like it.
Becs Gentry (11:32):
... you've got this, we've got this. Chicago's going to be
yours. Boston's going to be yours. I've got (inaudible) -
Rob Simmelkjaer (11:37):
Becs, thank you. I'm going to need this pep talk. Hope everybody
else gets something out of this as well. Hopefully all of
you running New York out there can listen to all of
this. And I'll be obviously a few weeks ahead of
all of you, so hopefully you can work some of
that into your TCS New York City Marathon training as
well. All right, Becs, we've got an incredible guest on
(11:57):
today's podcast, a star of the silver screen as well
as the stages of Broadway and a TCS New York City
Marathon two- time finisher. She's been a Tony and Grammy
Award winner. Patina Miller will join us today on Set
the Pace and I cannot wait to talk to this
(12:18):
incredible woman. She sang the national anthem for the 2023 TCS
New York City Marathon and then just walked right downstairs
to the starting line and ran the thing.
Becs Gentry (12:30):
(inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (12:29):
And I haven't seen her since she did that, so
we will catch up and I can't wait to have
a conversation with one of the great stars that we
have in our New York City running community. Then a
little bit later on, for today's member moment, Meb's going
to interview Leanna Scaglione, the 2025 National Ambassador for the
Children's Tumor Foundation, who's training to take on the 2025
(12:52):
Berlin Marathon. And Becs, we might be in the middle of
a heat wave, but tens of thousands of runners have
their eyes on the fall because we're only 13 weeks
away from the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon. That's 13
weeks, we're inside of 100 days.
Becs Gentry (13:10):
(inaudible) 100 days. I saw that New York Road Runners social post
the other day and nearly fell off my chair. How?
It's come around so fast.
Rob Simmelkjaer (13:18):
Oh, it's a milestone we all mark at New York
Road Runners because now we've got to start putting our
game faces on and getting ready for that big day.
Well, we know the runners out there are doing the
same and so today we're launching a special TCS New
York City Marathon Meb Minute series where Meb Keflezighi will
count down the miles to the finish line in Central
Park. We're going to start today at the start, for
(13:41):
Meb's advice at the beginning of the race, miles one
and two of the TCS New York City Marathon. Many of
you know the highest point in the marathon is mile one
on the Verrazzano- Narrows Bridge. So stay tuned for Meb a
little bit later in the show, as he'll start getting
you ready for the 26.2 mile TCS New York City Marathon.
Becs Gentry (14:02):
Try the Peloton app for free and access classes for
every type of runner, whether you're training for your first
race or you're a seasoned pro. From outdoor runs and
intervals to strength, yoga, and stretching, you'll find the perfect
fit for every part of your routine, whether it's a
long run day or you just need a quick five-
minute reset. The Peloton app meets you where you are and
(14:25):
helps you become a stronger, faster runner because it's designed
for someone like you. Try the app free for 30
days and download it now from the App Store or
Google Play. Terms apply. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner
for New York Road Runners.
Rob Simmelkjaer (14:43):
You might know her as the powerhouse lead from musicals
like Sister Act and Pippin, as well as Into the
Woods, or maybe you remember her best as Commander Paylor
in the Hunger Games, Daisy Grant in Madam Secretary, or
as Raquel Thomas in Raising Kanan. But today's guest, Patina
Miller, isn't just a Tony Award and Grammy Award- winning
(15:03):
actor, she is also a runner and a pretty good
one at that. She has finished the TCS New York
City Marathon a couple of times and just ran the 2025
TCS London Marathon in pursuit of her Six Star Medal
in the Abbott World Marathon Majors. Patina's other roles include
mother and this summer she added the role mentor as
(15:26):
well, serving as a mentor for the 2025 cohort of
our Run for the Future program at New York Road
Runners. Patina Miller, this is an honor and a pleasure
to have you on Set the Pace. Welcome.
Patina Miller (15:40):
Oh my God, it is an honor to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Rob Simmelkjaer (15:44):
Patina, you and I first met, we are chatting before
we hit record on the podcast, at the starting line
of the 2023 TCS New York City Marathon where you came to
sing the national anthem and did so spectacularly, of course,
as you would. And then I think you must be
(16:04):
the only person ever to do this, I can't prove
it, but to then, after singing the anthem, go down
and run the TCS New York City Marathon and do it
pretty well also with a time of just around four
hours. And that, I guess, kind of sums up the
magic that is Patina Miller. It's incredible that you are
able to pull that off. So how? How did you
(16:26):
do it that day? How'd you sing and then run?
I guess maybe the running was harder than the singing,
but you tell me.
Patina Miller (16:35):
Looking back, there were some things I'd do a little
different. I would probably not run straight away. I just
didn't know that the vibes are just so strong that after
getting off of the podium and singing the anthem and
thanking God that I knew all the words because when
you're so nervous, you're like, " Please don't let me flub."
(16:58):
Everybody knows the anthem. Am I going to flub a
line? I'm worried about my pacing, I'm worrying about, I
hope it's not too hot. All these things are going
on in my head and then to sing, get through
it and then be ushered to get in there, it
was a lot. But I'm so happy it set me up to
have a great first part of my race, which I
was really, really happy about.
Becs Gentry (17:20):
Oh my gosh. Well, I think that is a warmup
like no one else has ever-
Patina Miller (17:28):
(inaudible) .
Becs Gentry (17:27):
As a running coach for a very long time, I
have never even thought about the benefits of doing a diaphragmatic
warmup only really to get you to get your lungs, to get your
breathing ready. But clearly, as you said, it set you
up for the first half, you said there.
Patina Miller (17:46):
Yes.
Becs Gentry (17:48):
(inaudible) on the other half. Fill us in.
Patina Miller (17:50):
Well, I think all the vibes. I think everybody always
talks about the energy and don't get swept up in the
energy, but I was like, " You know what? I just
was on stage and I was singing the anthem and
everybody's here." I'm watching these elite runners get ready and
just being so up close to all of that. And then
seeing everybody, all different colors, shapes, sizes out there, so
(18:12):
excited to run. I was excited too. I was so excited to come back in 2023. I had not the best race my
first race in 2022, so I was just so excited
by the vibes of people and everyone just putting it
all out there at like 7
And I got swept up in it. And then halfway
(18:33):
through, reality did set in. It did.
Becs Gentry (18:38):
Yeah, that Pulaski Bridge can really wake you up.
Patina Miller (18:44):
What? Reality set in, it was like, "Oh, I have to work. Oh, I have
strategy." Bring it back to the strategy, what are we
going to do? I really had to lock in.
Rob Simmelkjaer (18:54):
Hey, I got to just point out some of your
times because your improvement from '22 to '23 was remarkable
in the marathon. Now, we all know 2022 was a really hard
year to run. The weather was difficult. We all know
that. You ran it in 4
41 minutes off your time in 2023, so maybe the
(19:18):
second half was a struggle for you. You did have
one of those dreaded just over an hour mark times.
We know those are frustrating. Four hours and 36 minutes.
Patina Miller (19:29):
What? So frustrating.
Rob Simmelkjaer (19:31):
Sorry, four hours and 36 seconds, I should say, 4
36. We know those are challenging times, but did you
feel good about that race? And I guess it felt
good enough to keep running, so that's good.
Patina Miller (19:46):
Every time. So it's so funny. Since I started my
running journey, the process of training is always hard and there
are moments during the training process, not... I'm filming a
TV show, that's really hard. And I'm a mother coming
home doing all these things. And the training process was
really great for me because it gave me time to
(20:08):
myself where I wasn't a character. Still mom, but in
a different way. But to then finally get to the
race that you've prepared for and to lock in, you've
trained, to get to the point of like you know
what? In my career, if I work really hard, I
can get the things that I want. That's how I've lived
(20:28):
my life. If I train hard, if I work on
my voice, if I train my body up enough, I
can get on stage and I can be there eight
shows a week. If I practice my lines, if I really
study with my acting coach, then at some point I
will do better and at some point I will get role
and someone will say yes. So I brought all of
(20:50):
those things to running like you know what? I'm going
to train right, I'm going to try and get my
nutrition right. I'm going to do all these things and
that's going to take me to the place that I
need to go. Especially, since the year before, Crash and
Burn had all these things. So I got really excited
for all of the tools that I had in my
tool belt. But to get so close to my little sub-
(21:14):
four dream, it was crushing. But then I said, " You
know what? You shaved off all that time off of
your marathon and you worked so hard and you were so smart."
And to get out there and do it again and
say yes again, to be frightened and scared again, but
so excited. When I went across that finish line, I
(21:34):
was just so proud of myself. I was.
Becs Gentry (21:37):
Good. So you should be, and that comes from somebody
who is a something, something (inaudible) one person are
a lot of the most recent races I have run. I seem
to have that, well, I can't get faster than that
one second over. But anyway, let's take it back to
2022. As we said, that was your first New York Road
Runners race was the 2022 TCS New York City Marathon. It
(22:01):
was a brutally humid day, it was just ugh. Everybody
struggled that day, for sure. So you weren't alone in
feeling that disbelief at the, I don't know, 24 mile
marker. I remember seeing a lot of faces of like,
you know what, no, I don't want to do the
last two. (inaudible) did. But let's talk about what
(22:21):
else you were doing at that time because your life
outside of training to run a marathon, which is gigantic,
was you were in the middle of your run of
Into the Woods, eight shows a week. Mom. Not just
working a bit more, you're performing sometime on Broadway. It's
nuts. So how? How, Patina, did you fit everything in?
(22:48):
What was your schedule?
Patina Miller (22:49):
Well, first off, I relied on my community at home,
my husband, my beautiful teenage nieces who would sort of
serve as babysitters for me. I had amazing coaches, I
trained with really cool people and my friends. And I
would not back out. Once I got Into the Woods,
(23:10):
I had already signed up for the marathon and I
was like, "You know what, no, I'm going to keep... I'm not
going to back out. I know it's going to be
hard. It's eight shows a week. I don't know where
I'm going to find the time to train, but I'm
going to do it." And I loved the experience of
being in Into the Woods and I always say being
on Broadway, it's like being an athlete. It's like a
(23:30):
marathon because you're doing it over and over and over
again every night. So I knew that I was set
up for success if I paced myself in the journey
of before I go to the theater, what am I
doing in the mornings? How can I fit my runs
in? Do I fit them on a two show day?
Do I run in between shows? And I did that. I did that a lot.
(23:52):
I remember my cast members being like, "What are you doing? This
is crazy."
Rob Simmelkjaer (23:56):
So you would run between a matinee and the show at night?
Patina Miller (24:00):
Yes.
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:00):
Wow.
Patina Miller (24:00):
Yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:01):
That's amazing.
Patina Miller (24:01):
You know what? It was actually really great because a lot of
times when you're doing a show where you have to
be all over the stage and it's so high intense,
it's like two hours and 30 minutes of a lot of emotion. To
kind of have to do it over again, if you
stop, that's where the trouble starts. Your voice starts to
get tired, your body starts to get tired. So for
(24:23):
me, picking up and running in between shows was kind
of like a nice little energy burst that would carry
me to the next show. After the last show, different story.
Becs Gentry (24:37):
(inaudible) .
Patina Miller (24:37):
Terrible idea. I remember thinking that was a terrible idea.
Becs Gentry (24:45):
Oh my gosh.
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:45):
It's so interesting to hear this and I remember hearing
Patina's stories about Taylor Swift and you probably heard about
this, during her tour-
Patina Miller (24:54):
(inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:55):
And when she was preparing and training for that tour,
the Eras Tour, she was on the treadmill. And she
was running on the treadmill and singing the songs while
on the treadmill to build that, I guess the lung
capacity and the endurance. So I imagine you can relate
to that. It sounds to me like running really does
(25:17):
complement what you're doing as a live performer.
Patina Miller (25:20):
Oh my god, yes. There's a lot of memorization that
happens. There's a lot of thinking about your character and
really just having those moments to really lock in and
think about your character, think about the lyrics. Sondheim is
not easy. So for me, running and the repetition of
just the beat of running, you know what I mean?
(25:42):
And having to do the Witch's Rat, which is very
fast and it's like beans, beans, nothing but beans. All
of these different syncopations of that I kind of used
with the running as well. So when I'm out there, I
wasn't just training for the mileage, but I was also,
my memorization and figuring out my blocking and it became
(26:02):
very visual for me to just zone out and think
about the work. And even for my character that I
played on TV, because midway through that run and training
I started my third thing, which was filming for Raising
Kanan during that time. So I had to use running
as a way to do it all.
Becs Gentry (26:23):
Wow.
Patina Miller (26:24):
If that makes any sense.
Rob Simmelkjaer (26:25):
It does. It does. It's fascinating. I just have to ask this one
question though. Do you run with music when all this
is going on in your life? Or it sounds like
maybe you run to silence, but the music of your
shows is going through your head. What's happening there?
Patina Miller (26:41):
So during Into the Woods, I definitely would run in
silence, for sure. I always started the run because I
just needed the motivation. I did not want to be singing Into
the woods when I started the run, just to get
into it. But halfway through, I would turn the music
off or turn it down and I just start reciting
my lines or reciting lyrics from the show because we
(27:02):
didn't have a lot of time. The transfer from City
Center, if you were a newbie to Broadway, was like two
and a half weeks. So we had to learn, a
lot of the new people had to learn the entire
show. Thankfully, I had known the show from when I
did it in 2019. But there were a lot of
things I had to memorize and get ready for our
production on Broadway. So I had limited time to really
(27:27):
lock in and focus, and running definitely helped.
Becs Gentry (27:31):
Oh my gosh. So alongside all of these elements of
your life, just throwing challenges at you, you're physical in
so many different ways. Both of your marathons you've run
though for a cause, which I'm guessing gives you that
extra impetus to keep going when the days are tough.
And you decided to support the charity Komera. And it
(27:55):
works with young women in Rwanda and it's a beautiful,
beautiful cause. So just tell our listeners, why is this
charity specifically important to you to make your races feel
like it's a bigger purpose?
Patina Miller (28:10):
So when I was searching for what I... I told my trainer at the time, I
was like, " Well, you know what? If I'm signing up,"
because she's like, " What's your birthday? It'd be so great
to run a marathon." And I was like, " Would it?"
I was like, " But I need to run for a
cause, I need to run for something and I want to
be very specific about what I want to run for."
And women and children, that's always something that's really important
(28:32):
to me. I've been so blessed and fortunate in my
journey to have really great mentors in my life that
changed the trajectory of my life. So when I was
deciding on what charities to support, I wanted to really
find one that really spoke to me. And this one
spoke to me. It was about advocating for young women
(28:53):
in Rwanda and using the gift and the beauty of
running to arm these girls with the necessary tools to
be their best selves. And a lot of the money
we raised, I loved it, it was sending women to college
for a year. And this was like $1, 000 could send
(29:13):
a girl there for four years of college. So I
really felt like I was making a difference in my
own small way of raising money and just thinking what
it meant to those women. And all of the people
who serve on that charity and the work that they've
done, they love it so much. Being able to have
(29:33):
the resources to talk about the different issues and then
being able to speak to the girls and figure out what
they're doing, who graduated, it was a lot of joy
and it really kept me going because it did get
dark. It always gets dark when you're training and so
to run 26.2 miles, it had to be for something
(29:54):
important. And I always try to use my platform for
things that I believe in, things that... Just try and
find ways to make a difference in my own little
way. And through my platform, I was able to do
that with running. So yeah, running for a cause is
always great.
Becs Gentry (30:11):
(inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (30:13):
Patina, your origin story is interesting. You grew up in
South Carolina, small town. And like a lot of young
performers, you realized, it sounds like your mother also realized
at a young age that you had some talent and
you left home to go, at 15 years old you
(30:35):
left home to go attend a performing arts high school.
Where was that?
Patina Miller (30:39):
That was in Greenville, South Carolina. It was the South
Carolina Governor's School for the Arts and Humanities.
Rob Simmelkjaer (30:44):
All right. And that is really, it's a young age to
leave home. It sounds like you kind of knew from
a young age this is what you were meant to
do, right? Is that fair? And how has that-
Patina Miller (30:58):
Yeah, it's very fair.
Rob Simmelkjaer (30:59):
How has that evolved for you now being in New
York? It's happened. You're one of those people, you meet
people in life who are still figuring out what they
want to be at like... Lots of us, right?
Patina Miller (31:09):
Yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (31:09):
20- something, 30- something, 40- something, right? Still trying to
figure it out.
Patina Miller (31:13):
For sure.
Rob Simmelkjaer (31:13):
And I'm always interested what it's like to be one
of those people who knows at such a young age
what you want to be and then you just have
to work and execute, as you have done.
Patina Miller (31:26):
Yeah, it was a dream. Early in my life, I
knew I always wanted to perform and I didn't know how that
was going to happen. So whenever we found this school,
it felt just like, oh my God, I have to
go. The dream in some ways became a little bit
of reality. There was a place that I could go
(31:47):
and train and I could be with professionals and they
would teach me all the necessary things to go to
this next level. So when I got in, I know
what I was doing. The first time I auditioned to
get into the school, I remember going to the library
and looking at plays and that was the first time
I had ever had read a monologue. And I just
(32:10):
remember just doing it and my mom encouraged me to do
it and to memorize it and to sign up and
I was like, " You know what? Yeah, okay, I'm going
to do this. I really want to be an actress.
Who knows if I'm good enough to get into this
school, but I'm just going to do it." And I
did it and I got in and it changed my
life. I got to experience a world that I did
(32:35):
not know I could have. To go to the school
for free, being in South Carolina where the arts unfortunately
are not as appreciated as it should. And that's a
lot of places, arts programming is always the first to
be taken out. The arts is what saved me in
(32:57):
a way. And this dream became a bigger reality after
being there and learning about different schools and schools that
I could go to continue my training to finally maybe
make it on Broadway or maybe do a show. And
to get, I got a full scholarship to Carnegie Mellon.
I was one of 12 in my musical theater class.
(33:21):
And I said when I got there I was going
to work my butt off. I was going to do
everything I needed to do to learn the things that
I needed and I was going to do it. Nobody
could stop me at that point. It's like I'm going
to make this happen one way or the other. And
I just am so thankful, so thankful through hard work,
dedication, a lot of nos, but also some really great
(33:42):
opportunities and some yes, some yeses in my life that
it transformed and changed my life.
Rob Simmelkjaer (33:50):
Becks, listening to Patina, there's so many parallels you can
draw with running and the trajectory that one has to
take to be successful. All those setbacks, all the challenges,
all the nos, as you put it. And Becks, we
can all relate to that in a way through running,
right? And the days maybe our body says no instead
of some casting director.
Becs Gentry (34:12):
(inaudible) all of it, there are. There are so
many nos. But Patina, you touched on it earlier when
we talked about the plethora of things that I feel
like is constantly going on in your life. You're a
yes person, you are someone with what appears to be
a really, really strong work ethic, somebody who wants to
(34:34):
succeed and share your success and your journey with others.
But you are a big family person as well and
having your lovely nieces around to babysit your daughter when
she was younger. But you didn't do your marathon solo,
right? I understand that your-
Patina Miller (34:55):
Did not.
Becs Gentry (34:55):
... husband, David, he ran it with you as well?
Patina Miller (34:57):
He did. He did.
Becs Gentry (34:58):
How did that go? Because sometimes the husband, wife, partners running
can get a little bit...
Patina Miller (35:09):
Well, yeah, you know. It was back and forth. We had some
really... The long runs were really great. Sometimes the long
runs are really great, sometimes the long runs were like, "
Okay, you go run there, I'm going to go run
here." But what I love about my husband is he
loves to push me. And when I get so caught
(35:31):
up and I don't feel like I can do it,
he's the one in my ear like, " You got it,
just keep going, just keep going." Meanwhile, he's over there
suffering too, but he'd never let me know. So the
first year, the hot year that we both had, he
just jumped into training at 16 weeks. He was just like, "
Oh, I'll run, I'll run with you." And yeah, who does that?
(35:56):
I was so jealous first. And then he runs with
me and I start getting cramps and I'm like, " I
don't know if I can do it." We would stop every at every
water and he would massage my cramp, he would massage
my leg and we continued, we continued. And then we'd
go another 10 minutes and I'm like, " I can't, I can't do
(36:16):
it." He'd get down there, we'd move off to the
side, he'd be massaging my legs. So this poor man
for 13 miles, we stop, start, he massaged me. So
yeah, we may, could get a little testy, but he
is definitely my ride or die in terms when it
comes to running. We try to run our races together,
(36:37):
we try to push each other, like all things. It's
never perfect. There could be a little, " You go over
there, you don't run with me today and I don't
want it," but at the end of the day we
have such a good time running.
Becs Gentry (36:52):
That is (inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (36:54):
Hey, a partner who will give you a massage when
you need one in the middle of a race, like, hey-
Patina Miller (36:58):
Middle of the race.
Rob Simmelkjaer (36:58):
You can't beat that.
Patina Miller (36:58):
Come on now.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:00):
That is legit partnership right there.
Becs Gentry (37:04):
It's so, so cute for your daughter to see as well.
Oh, maybe you not see it, but hear about mom
and dad.
Patina Miller (37:09):
Yes. Yes.
Becs Gentry (37:09):
Mom and dad are like the ultimate team goal right there.
Patina Miller (37:13):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now she runs. She ran her first
two miles on Sunday.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:17):
Oh, nice.
Patina Miller (37:18):
It was great, she's like (inaudible) and she was like, " I
want to do it." So she ran two miles. It was hilarious.
She was so proud.
Becs Gentry (37:26):
(inaudible) congratulations mama. That is so good.
Patina Miller (37:28):
It was fun. It was really, really fun.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:30):
We got to see her in one of our Road
Runners Youth Races hopefully very soon.
Patina Miller (37:34):
Oh, you will. On her birthday, she'll be running for
the Percy Sutton. Yeah, she's going to be running.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:39):
Amazing. That's fantastic.
Becs Gentry (37:39):
The Harlem 5K. Yoo-hoo.
Patina Miller (37:39):
Yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:39):
Well, that is awesome.
Becs Gentry (37:39):
Oh, fantastic.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:39):
And you-
Becs Gentry (37:39):
And you've been coaching.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Patina Miller (37:49):
Well, trying. She likes to do her own thing. She's
a Leo, so she thinks she has it all worked
out. She's like, " I got this. I got this." So
she's excited to run for us like you know what,
it's not a heavy lift. You're not going to run
the 5K. They said for the kids, I think for
(38:10):
your birthday it would be really fun, doing to her what my
trainer did to me about signing up for a race
on my birthday. I was like, " It'd be so fun."
She's like, " Yeah, it'd be so fun. I think I'd
like to do it."
Rob Simmelkjaer (38:23):
It'll be great. It'll be great. We love it.
Patina Miller (38:24):
Yeah, it'd be fun.
Rob Simmelkjaer (38:24):
And it's not just your daughter that you are inspiring to run.
You are, as I mentioned at the top, serving as
a mentor for our Run for the Future program, which,
for those who don't know, is a program for high
school aged girls who really haven't been runners before and
they get trained and mentored into running their very first
(38:44):
5K. And what a mentor for them to have, Patina,
to have someone like you, a Broadway star show up.
What was that like? You just were with that group
a few days ago as we taped this podcast. What
was that like for you? And I'm curious, what did
you see in their faces as this Broadway star shows
(39:05):
up to tell them about running and help lead them
on one of their first training runs?
Patina Miller (39:11):
Well, I was just so excited to be there. I was so excited to have
the opportunity to serve in that capacity. And I thought, "
If I could just share some words of wisdom, some
words of encouragement." I know what it's like to start something
that's scary. Something that's so scary you don't think that
you'd ever be able to do it. So I just
love the fact that they all decided on their own
(39:33):
that they wanted to take on a journey of running
a 5K. And that's not an easy thing to do.
You know what I mean? Yeah, we can say running
is easy, but to some it's not. And for me,
that wasn't my case. It was scary for me when
I first started, so I just wanted to get there
to just lock eyes with some of them, take it
(39:53):
all in, look at it like, " Oh, I was there."
I wish I would've had something like this younger to
get started with running even younger. But I was happy
to be there that day and they were so excited.
Some of them were terrified, some of them were like,
their faces were like, " What did I get into? Why
(40:16):
did I sign up for this?" So to see that
inside, to see the talk. I just talked to them
about signing your why and why are you running? Why
you want to do it. Congratulating them on starting and
just sharing with them my own personal journey of starting
to run and the freedom I feel when I run and
(40:36):
the happiness I feel and the moment, the mental health
capacity of it. I wanted to share that with them
of how running makes me feel and how you can
use it when you have frustrating times. And being a
young girl in high school can sometimes not be the
easiest thing. A lot of them are starting their college
journeys and they'll be thinking about all that. So to
(41:00):
have this tool, to have this program with so many
wonderful volunteers. There were so many cool people there, just
there to just be there and serve as sort of
a sounding board for them to help them through for
that day. And to get them out there and we
started our run. My girl, who was so fierce, she's
(41:23):
like... I was like, " Where do you want to go? In
the front or the back?" And I'm thinking she's going to say like, "
No, let's (inaudible) in the back." She's like, " Let's
go to the front. Let's go to the front." So
I'm like, " Okay, girl, it's a 5K. I just ran
speed, let's..." I was like, " What are you trying to do?" And she's like, "I think I want to do it in 25 minutes."
Rob Simmelkjaer (41:37):
Wow.
Patina Miller (41:37):
I was like, " Okay, track star." Now, she does run track.
Rob Simmelkjaer (41:47):
Okay. Okay.
Patina Miller (41:48):
She does run track and she's never done long distance
and she's like, " I think I'm going to do 25 minutes." I was like, "
Okay. Sure, it's a practice. Okay." I was like, "You sure? You want to start slow?" I
kept saying, " Well, just remember we want to start slow
to get faster." Trying to think about you, Becs, think about all the
(42:09):
running coaches like, " Let's start a little slower than we
do it when we get out there." And she's breathing, she
has this, like I'm looking at her running and she's
so chill, not afraid. She's just so confident in herself. She
was running with her friend who had a coach as
well and she just seemed so sure of herself. She
(42:30):
knew she had a time. She listened to me, what
I said like, " Let's start a little slower." And I
watched her breathing and this girl, it's hot as crap outside.
She's using this technique where she didn't open, she didn't
breathe through her mouth. She was just breathing through her
nose and I was like, " What?" I was like, " Excuse
me, so how do you do that?" I'm supposed to
(42:53):
be mentoring her, but she was giving me tips. And
we had the best time. She finished the run in
like 25 minutes.
Rob Simmelkjaer (43:01):
Wow.
Patina Miller (43:01):
Right. She said she wanted to and she's just so
excited to run. So I saw that a lot in
a lot of the girls finishing, it being tough from
the start, but watching them come back, because we did
kind of little run around. And watching them come back and
the confidence that they had in their face, the relief
of doing something that was hard, that's why I did it.
(43:22):
That right there. And that's the reason that I will
show up in any capacity I can for the program
and I can't wait to run on August 9th.
Rob Simmelkjaer (43:32):
Wow. We really appreciate you being a part of it. What
an amazing experience for these girls to run with you
and get to learn from you. It's really a gift,
so thank you for mentoring as part of that program.
Okay, before we let you go, I need to know,
because runners like to ask each other, " What's next?" So
(43:53):
I need to know what's next for you both as
a runner, Patina, and also as an actor, what's coming
up next?
Patina Miller (44:00):
So what's coming up next right now is, so our
final season finally, not our final season, the final season
of Raising Kanan will be airing soon. I just finished
up my run in the show this past April, which is amazing.
(44:20):
So I'm doing a lot of different things. I'm working
on music right now that I am maybe releasing soon.
I'm having some that artist thing of like is it
good enough? And I'm working on an animated show called
Hazbin Hotel, so that. So I'm just kind of in
(44:41):
the phase of working on a lot of different things.
Coming off of a show, I've been on TV for
11 years, I've had this moment to kind of think
about what I want to do next and just really
think about it. Doing the TV work, I'd love to
come back to Broadway in some way, shape, or form, whether
that's producing or starring in something else. But the next
(45:02):
thing for me running- wise is I am going to
be running the New York City Marathon one more time
to try and get my sub- four.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:10):
Yes. Patina, there are easier places to get your sub-
four than New York City. Now, we want you to
do it in New York.
Patina Miller (45:18):
I know.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:18):
Trust me, we want it in New York. But you
could go to Chicago. I hear you're going for the
six stars, so there's Chicago, there's Berlin. It still counts,
but it's not the same, of course, as doing it in
New York.
Patina Miller (45:30):
It's not.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:30):
So I applaud you and appreciate you for going for
it in New York City because if you can do
it, there's a saying, I think I heard once or
twice, if you can-
Patina Miller (45:40):
Do it here.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:40):
If you can do it there.
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Perfect.
Patina Miller (45:46):
Totally. Totally.
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Perfect.
Patina Miller (45:46):
Absolutely.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:46):
Oh my gosh.
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Oh my gosh.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:46):
So great having-
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Well, good, good, good luck for all of them. I can't wait
to see your daughter shine on her birthday race.
Patina Miller (45:57):
Thank you.
Becs Gentry (46:00):
(inaudible) we'll be cheering you on so loud.
Rob Simmelkjaer (46:01):
Yeah, we'll see you in Harlem. I'll be there. Can't
wait to see you there.
Patina Miller (46:04):
Yes, you will. Thank you guys so much.
Rob Simmelkjaer (46:04):
And keep after it. All right. Patina Miller, the one and only. Thank you very
much, joining us here on Set the Pace.
Patina Miller (46:11):
Take care.
Rob Simmelkjaer (46:13):
New York Road Runners is a non- profit organization with
a vision to build healthier lives and stronger communities through
the transformative power of running. The support of members and
donors like you helps us achieve our mission to transform
the health and well- being of our communities through inclusive
and accessible running experiences, empowering all to achieve their potential.
(46:34):
Learn more and contribute at nyrr. org/ donate. Leanna Scaglione
began her athletic journey training to be a professional ballerina,
but a series of major health challenges led to a
diagnosis of neurofibromatosis during her teenage years. After multiple surgeries
and learning to walk again, Leanna found a new athletic outlet in
(46:57):
running, joining the CTF NF Endurance Team during the pandemic. 49
New York Road Runners races later, Leanna is the 2025
National Ambassador for the Children's Tumor Foundation and is aiming
for her fourth Abbott World Marathon Major Star at the 2025
Berlin Marathon.
Meb Keflezighi (47:18):
Thanks, Rob. Great to have Leanna to the show, Set
the Pace. How are you doing today?
Leanna Scaglione (47:24):
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.
Meb Keflezighi (47:26):
Our pleasure. You start wanting to be a ballerina, but
everything changed after the NF diagnosis. What do you remember
most about that time?
Leanna Scaglione (47:35):
That was probably one of the most difficult times in
my life. I was one of those kids that had
everything planned out when they were nine years old. I
had everything planned for training, what ballet school I wanted
to go to, college, what company I eventually wanted to
audition for. So at 16, when I thought I was
(47:59):
just injured, which any athlete can relate to as seeing
as devastating, and finding out that it was more than
an injury and it was actually a tumor, and then
landing in a wheelchair and going from all this dancing
to then nothing, I was lost. I didn't know where
(48:22):
my life would go after that.
Meb Keflezighi (48:23):
Amazing. How was your mental status after the surgery? You
had to relearn how to walk. And what was the
hardest part of the starting over? And what helped you
keep going?
Leanna Scaglione (48:35):
I was angry. I won't lie, I was very angry
at that time. I truly felt like I went through
the five stages of grief. I felt like I really
lost something when I found out I couldn't pursue ballet
professionally. So I really was angry, I was stubborn, and
(48:56):
that really motivated me to get moving again because I
didn't want to admit that things were changing for me.
So I was doing everything in my power to hold
onto that dream of being a ballerina. And fast- forward
years later, I accept the fact that it's not going
(49:17):
to happen and put my focus elsewhere.
Meb Keflezighi (49:22):
Well, good for you not giving up and be able to just persevere. You joined the
NF Endurance Team after seeing another runner in the End
NF shirt at the NYC Half Marathon. What was it like to
realize you weren't alone on the course?
Leanna Scaglione (49:38):
That experience, I take that as a sign from the
universe because from when I was diagnosed back in 2007,
when I was 16, up until 2022, which was my
first half- marathon ever in my life, I also found
(49:59):
out some pretty unfortunate news in regards to my NF.
For all that time, I was what was considered a
watch and wait patient, which means we're going to monitor
whatever existing tumors you have, but we're not going to
really do anything about them. And yes, I went on
various drug trials to hopefully shrink them, but there was
(50:23):
no urgency behind needing these trials to succeed or having
to get surgery done. And in 2022, I found out
that I needed to go on another drug trial and
I really needed it to work. So dealing with my NF,
it started to change for me and I really had
(50:44):
to acknowledge it a lot more and take on the
responsibility of what was going to happen next in my
life. And I wasn't connected to the NF community. I was
very much dealing with my NF all on my own.
And seeing this runner up ahead of me with this
shirt on that said, " End NF," on the back, it
(51:06):
was a sign from the universe, like I said, saying, "
The community's calling out to you. Follow this runner, see
where they're going." And lo and behold, they were with
Children's Tumor Foundation, they have a team for the New
York City Half Marathon as well as the New York
City Marathon and so far all of the other marathon majors,
except for Boston so far. And it's just in my
(51:30):
gut knew that this is where I needed to go
and where I needed to belong.
Meb Keflezighi (51:36):
Wow, incredible that you were in that race and you
saw that sign and the universe helped you realize what
you can do even more beyond yourself. Since you started
running during the pandemics, have you noticed any ways that
your approach to running, like how you train, how you
deal with setbacks feel different because of the expectation with the
(51:56):
illness and recovery?
Leanna Scaglione (51:58):
It's definitely changed throughout the years with my running. When
I first started during the pandemic, it was an escape
for me to get outside of the four walls of
my living room and just to get some air. And
then joining New York Road Runners and participating in the
(52:18):
races in Central Park, it was really exhilarating. I felt
like I found a hobby that I could really latch
onto and enjoy and have that purpose again like I
did with the ballet. And when the things with my
NF started to change and I was on a chemotherapy
(52:40):
drug trial for 2022 to 2023 and then surgery for 2024 and
now again on another immunotherapy treatment, it changed how I
had to train for things. The side effects affected my
(53:00):
heart rate, my breathing capabilities. And I just had to
reflect on my abilities and be like, " Hey, you're still
out here doing it. Yeah, you may not be going
as fast as you typically do, but you're on a
treatment and you just ran six miles. Give yourself some
credit." So it definitely taught myself to listen to my
(53:23):
body and just ease up on myself and be proud
of the smaller moments and achievements that I was able
to have.
Meb Keflezighi (53:31):
Incredible. Leanna, you overcame so much obstacle. You might not
have been the ballerina that you wanted to, but you're a true
champion and you have overcome so many obstacles to be
an ambassador for Children Tumor Foundation. We are so grateful
to have you. But you also are aiming to be
the first person with NF too to earn all six
(53:54):
World Major Marathon Stars. What will that mean to you?
Leanna Scaglione (54:00):
So I, taking it as a personal sense of I've
defeated my NF. Unfortunately, there is no cure for any
type of NF. There's three types, NF1, NF2-related schwannomatosis, which is
what I have, and schwannomatosis. There's, like I said, no
(54:22):
cure for any of them. Hopefully, science is moving forward
in the direction to get a cure and that is
what CTF's main focus is, is funding research so we
can get there. But being able to even get the
six stars alone would just be an amazing personal achievement
(54:42):
just for myself to show to myself that I defeated
my NF in a way. But to be the first
person to do it, I think would be incredible in
a way to show the world what people with NF
can do. And those of us who also have NF,
to see that your life isn't bound by your diagnosis
(55:05):
and you can live beyond it.
Meb Keflezighi (55:07):
Pretty incredible story. Wish you all the best and thank
for sharing your story here with us.
Leanna Scaglione (55:11):
Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be
able to share with you.
Rob Simmelkjaer (55:15):
All right, thank you Meb and thank you Leanna for being
a member of New York Road Runners. Now, it's time
for the final part of our show, today's Meb Minute. And it's Meb's mile- by-
mile countdown to the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon. Today, Meb
is here to kick us off with miles one and two.
Meb Keflezighi (55:33):
Thanks, Rob. Welcome to my mile- by- mile countdown to
the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon. Mile one, a steady
uphill climb, the start of Staten Island is cold and
windy. (inaudible) the national anthem had just been played
and it's the iconic views. Resist pushing too hard in this
(55:55):
exhilarating crowd and climb. The Verrazzano Bridge is the highest
point of the marathon route, but it's also an incredible
view. Pace is not important, just climb up the hill
nice and steady. Mile two, a long downhill as you
descend into Brooklyn. Great opportunity to shed layers and find
(56:17):
a pace that disciplines to be able to be the
best you can. Pace is irrelevant at this point because you're going
down the hill. You just went uphill, now downhill pace
is are relevant, but enjoy the camaraderie of people above
of the bridge, down the bridge. Just have fun.
Rob Simmelkjaer (56:36):
And that does it for another episode of Set The
Pace. We want to thank our incredible guest today, Patina
Miller, along with our New York Road Runners member, Leanna
Scaglione. If you liked the episode, make sure you rate
it, subscribe, leave a comment, we'd love to hear from
you, and of course that will help others find the
show as well. Hope everybody has a great week. Beat
(56:58):
the heat, enjoy the miles, and we'll see you next week.
In my career, if I work really hard, I can
get the things that I want. That's how I've lived
my life. If I train hard, if I work on
my voice, if I train my body up enough, I
can get on stage and I can be there eight
shows a week. At some point I will do better
and at some point I will get the role and someone
will say yes. So I brought all of those things
(00:22):
to running like, you know what? I'm going to train
right, I'm going to try and get my nutrition right.
I'm going to do all these things and that's going
to take me to the place that I need to go.
Rob Simmelkjaer (00:34):
Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Set the
Pace, the official podcast of New York Road Runners, presented
by Peloton. I am your host and the CEO of
New York Road Runners, Rob Simmelkjaer. And joined again from
across that little thing called the Atlantic Ocean by my
friend and Peloton instructor, Becs Gentry, who's back in her
(00:55):
homeland of the United Kingdom, joining us from London. Hello,
Becs. How is London treating you?
Becs Gentry (01:01):
Good afternoon. It's fantastic. It's gray and slightly chilly, a
little bit drizzly, not meaning to take anything away from
what feels like the face of the sun apparently in
New York, but London is divine.
Rob Simmelkjaer (01:17):
Gray and drizzly sounds amazing from a running point of
view, not from a beach- going point of view so
much or a pool- going point of view. And we
don't want to give that up because it is summer
and we love those things. But from a running point
of view, 50s and drizzly sounds really nice.
Becs Gentry (01:33):
So very, very good. Yep, I'm excited to be here,
reclaiming the miles on my stomping grounds that were eight
years ago and longer. It's been pretty cool. Though I
will say I thought New York roads were very uneven
and pothole- y. And I'm so mistaken. They are, but
(01:53):
we don't often run on the roads unless it's a
race. The sidewalks are a lot better than the pavements
here in New York because they're so old here that
they're all higgledy- piggledy everywhere and you're just like... The
amount of times I've nearly gone and rolled my ankle
because it's just old that I'm like, " Huh, I'm going
to start to appreciate New York a little bit more right now."
Rob Simmelkjaer (02:16):
Higgledy- piggledy, that is clearly a British term. Only a
Brit would say that, but I get it. That's why
I've tried to run on the cobblestones of places like Paris
before and my ankles, which are prone to turning, not
a thing. Not a thing for me.
Becs Gentry (02:32):
It's rough. It's rough.
Rob Simmelkjaer (02:32):
I love it, I love it. Glad you're enjoying yourself in your
homeland. Well, back here in New York, Becks, we had
an incredible weekend this past weekend, not one but two
amazing events. We launched our first ever Start Line Series
in Queens on Saturday. This was, to remind everybody, a
free two- and- a- half- mile run. It was untimed,
(02:54):
unscored, open to all paces, and we produced in a
partnership the New York City Department of Transportation and their
Summer Streets program. And it was so great. We had
so many runners come out. About 600 folks came out
and started this free race. So many of them were first-
time runners. They ran down Vernon Boulevard and it was
(03:18):
just awesome to see this, to see so many young
people and new runners out there. So it was great. We
were thrilled at how this went as a first- time
event and we're going to be doing this again August
23rd in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. So anybody out there, you're
new to running, you just want to go have a fun run, car-
free tour of Crown Heights, go to New York Road
(03:40):
Runner's website, nyrr. org, and we will drop a link
in the show notes as well. Sign up. I will
be there for that one and I cannot wait to see
that event happen again because it was really a successful first-
time event for us. And there's spaces available, they're not
sold out, so sign up, show up and we hope
to see everybody out there,
Becs Gentry (04:00):
Rob, tell me, is it all day or morning? What's the schedule?
Rob Simmelkjaer (04:03):
The race happens first thing in the morning so that
we can get the folks down and have their run
and then we give the streets back to everybody else
who's going to be strolling for the day. So on
these hot summer days, morning is the way to go
anyway, as we both know.
Becs Gentry (04:17):
So true. Oh my gosh, get down there everybody.
Rob Simmelkjaer (04:20):
Yeah. Yeah, so very happy about that. And then the
next day, Becs, was our New York Road Runners Team
Championships Five- Miler, always a big day in Central Park
for all the club runners out there. And again it was-
Becs Gentry (04:32):
Looked pretty cool.
Rob Simmelkjaer (04:33):
Yeah, these are some of the most hardcore dedicated runners
in our New York City running community and they had
a great day. The individual results, I'll name out, I'll
call a few names. Felicia Pasadyn, she's been an incredible
runner, kind of a new discovery in the New York
Running Circuit. She won the women's side with a time
(04:54):
of 26:43. She's from the new club of 212 Athletic.
You might remember Felicia also won the Brooklyn Half. The non-
binary winner was Jacob Caswell at 28:30 from Front Runners
New York. And on the men's side it was Ryan
Kutch from Central Park Track Club, Tracksmith with a time
of 23
(05:19):
the team side, the women's team was Central Park Track
Club. Non- binary, Front Runners New York. And the men's
winning team was Brooklyn Track Club. So hope everybody had
a great day at the team championships. Sorry I missed
it, it's such a fun day. I'll be there next
year for sure because I love that event and hope
everybody had a great, great day. All right, Becs. We are
(05:46):
here taping in the last week of July. And as
I talked about last week, I am running the Bank
of America Chicago Marathon. By the way, I did not
mention, as I should have done last week, that I
am running again to support Team for Kids. You'll hear
later in the show our guest today, Patina Miller, talking
about her role as a mentor for our Run for
(06:08):
the Future program. That's one of the many amazing community
and youth programs we have at New York Road Runners
that benefit from the funds raised for Team for Kids.
So of course , as the CEO of New York Road
Runners, I'm running to benefit Team for Kids and would
love your support. I need your support, we need your
support. The link to my personal Team for Kids fundraising
(06:29):
page is in the show notes, so please check it
out and I would really love and appreciate everybody's support.
And then speaking of support, Becks, there's the support I'm
going to need to try to not only finish this
marathon but also try to accomplish my goal of running
a Boston qualifying time of three hours and 30 minutes.
And right now, I'm just kind of still working to
(06:52):
build that base. I ran 14 miles over the weekend
as my long run, so that was good. That's actually probably a
little ahead of schedule, right?
Becs Gentry (06:58):
I think you're going to be fantastic. Sub 3
we're looking at what? A sub just around a 7:
25 pace, I think is what we're looking at maybe.
Rob Simmelkjaer (07:09):
Slower actually. I think if I get it done on
the mile side it's more like a just under eight
minute pace. Yeah, which is-
Becs Gentry (07:15):
Just under eight minute pace, yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (07:16):
Which is where I've been. That's really where I've been as a runner for
a while. As I was joking with you last week,
I haven't gotten a lot faster as a runner over
the years, but I've also not gotten slower. My times
have stayed kind of the same.
Becs Gentry (07:32):
I like that and that means that the only way
is up when it comes to this next race. So
I've sort of jiggled it around for Rob. He's going
to be peaking at about a 22- mile- long run around
a month away from the race. And we're going to do drop-
down. So I do love to do that for my
runners, is I don't like it to be always a
(07:53):
consistent build all the way up to that longest run
and then the drop- down to the race because especially,
I'm going to say this out loud, don't hate me,
but for older runners, we want to get up, I
include myself in this category now, we want to get
up to those larger mileage weeks before the race, have
a drop- down to let the body recover, and to
(08:15):
highlight anything that we may need to work on and
then we'll have the chance to work on before we
peak back up for the race. So that's how Rob's
training is going to look. It's going to have a
little drop- down relatively soon because he's already out that
14 mile mark. We'll probably go up to 20, drop
you back down, and then you'll work your way back
(08:36):
up to 22 before the race. And he is going
to be doing some speed work, my friends, because if
you've been on the East Coast, you know this summer
has been brutally hot and humid and sticky and everybody
I speak to, Austin is training for Berlin and he's
struggling with speed work. He's just really... Long runs of
(08:56):
speed work are suffering. So it's about getting on your
tread, ideally a Peloton tread. I'm going to get you
into my classes and we're going to do some speed
work, just some... It doesn't have to be complicated. It
does not have to be overly fast, okay? Simple workouts
doesn't mean it's an easy workout, a simple workout, repetitions,
(09:16):
getting your cardiovascular capacity increased and strong in air conditioning
is good. So for my treadmill haters out there, I'm
sorry, but you may have to suck it up this
summer because there's goals and there's stubbornness. So all I have to say on that matter.
Rob Simmelkjaer (09:33):
Yeah, it makes sense, the treadmill angle, Becks. And I
actually went out this morning and got on a treadmill
just to try to do a few mile repeats at
a good pace and I don't know, there's something going
on with my speed ability right now that just is
off. And it's weird actually between a workout and a
race. And I'm sure people out there can relate to
(09:53):
this. I struggled this morning to do a couple of
mile repeats, like one mile and then a break and
one mile and a break, at a time that is
a time I ran a four- mile race in June
at, I think it was about 6
mile. So I rattled off four straight miles in Central Park
(10:14):
at the pace that I cannot now reproduce on a
treadmill for one mile. So something is going on and
I think it's probably a mix of weather exhaustion and
just some mental fatigue that I may be having as
well because it is not happening for me right now.
Becs Gentry (10:32):
No, and you're right, it's fatigue. It's also, we talk
about comparison being the thief of joy when we compare
ourselves to other people, but we do have to bear
in mind that comparison to our other self, our older self,
our past self is included in that statement. So yes,
you could do it, you can do it again, but
right now there's a lot of other factors, external, internal,
(10:54):
that are affecting you. Also, one mile on the tread
is a while for repeats, so I think (inaudible) -
Rob Simmelkjaer (11:01):
Too much maybe. Yeah.
Becs Gentry (11:01):
Yeah, (inaudible) too long. I like to think if we're
a distance- based, distance- driven runner, when we come to
the tread, we delete that and we go to the
other variable, which is time. And we sit into something
else because we're too used to distance outside. We know
how it should, I'm air quoting for those of you who aren't
watching us, should be feeling. So we switch it to
time and we'll start doing some four- minute repeats on
(11:25):
the tread. So it puts into its own category instead
of mileage, which is so, so familiar outside, but-
Rob Simmelkjaer (11:32):
I like it.
Becs Gentry (11:32):
... you've got this, we've got this. Chicago's going to be
yours. Boston's going to be yours. I've got (inaudible) -
Rob Simmelkjaer (11:37):
Becs, thank you. I'm going to need this pep talk. Hope everybody
else gets something out of this as well. Hopefully all of
you running New York out there can listen to all of
this. And I'll be obviously a few weeks ahead of
all of you, so hopefully you can work some of
that into your TCS New York City Marathon training as
well. All right, Becs, we've got an incredible guest on
(11:57):
today's podcast, a star of the silver screen as well
as the stages of Broadway and a TCS New York City
Marathon two- time finisher. She's been a Tony and Grammy
Award winner. Patina Miller will join us today on Set
the Pace and I cannot wait to talk to this
(12:18):
incredible woman. She sang the national anthem for the 2023 TCS
New York City Marathon and then just walked right downstairs
to the starting line and ran the thing.
Becs Gentry (12:30):
(inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (12:29):
And I haven't seen her since she did that, so
we will catch up and I can't wait to have
a conversation with one of the great stars that we
have in our New York City running community. Then a
little bit later on, for today's member moment, Meb's going
to interview Leanna Scaglione, the 2025 National Ambassador for the
Children's Tumor Foundation, who's training to take on the 2025
(12:52):
Berlin Marathon. And Becs, we might be in the middle of
a heat wave, but tens of thousands of runners have
their eyes on the fall because we're only 13 weeks
away from the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon. That's 13
weeks, we're inside of 100 days.
Becs Gentry (13:10):
(inaudible) 100 days. I saw that New York Road Runners social post
the other day and nearly fell off my chair. How?
It's come around so fast.
Rob Simmelkjaer (13:18):
Oh, it's a milestone we all mark at New York
Road Runners because now we've got to start putting our
game faces on and getting ready for that big day.
Well, we know the runners out there are doing the
same and so today we're launching a special TCS New
York City Marathon Meb Minute series where Meb Keflezighi will
count down the miles to the finish line in Central
Park. We're going to start today at the start, for
(13:41):
Meb's advice at the beginning of the race, miles one
and two of the TCS New York City Marathon. Many of
you know the highest point in the marathon is mile one
on the Verrazzano- Narrows Bridge. So stay tuned for Meb a
little bit later in the show, as he'll start getting
you ready for the 26.2 mile TCS New York City Marathon.
Becs Gentry (14:02):
Try the Peloton app for free and access classes for
every type of runner, whether you're training for your first
race or you're a seasoned pro. From outdoor runs and
intervals to strength, yoga, and stretching, you'll find the perfect
fit for every part of your routine, whether it's a
long run day or you just need a quick five-
minute reset. The Peloton app meets you where you are and
(14:25):
helps you become a stronger, faster runner because it's designed
for someone like you. Try the app free for 30
days and download it now from the App Store or
Google Play. Terms apply. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner
for New York Road Runners.
Rob Simmelkjaer (14:43):
You might know her as the powerhouse lead from musicals
like Sister Act and Pippin, as well as Into the
Woods, or maybe you remember her best as Commander Paylor
in the Hunger Games, Daisy Grant in Madam Secretary, or
as Raquel Thomas in Raising Kanan. But today's guest, Patina
Miller, isn't just a Tony Award and Grammy Award- winning
(15:03):
actor, she is also a runner and a pretty good
one at that. She has finished the TCS New York
City Marathon a couple of times and just ran the 2025
TCS London Marathon in pursuit of her Six Star Medal
in the Abbott World Marathon Majors. Patina's other roles include
mother and this summer she added the role mentor as
(15:26):
well, serving as a mentor for the 2025 cohort of
our Run for the Future program at New York Road
Runners. Patina Miller, this is an honor and a pleasure
to have you on Set the Pace. Welcome.
Patina Miller (15:40):
Oh my God, it is an honor to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Rob Simmelkjaer (15:44):
Patina, you and I first met, we are chatting before
we hit record on the podcast, at the starting line
of the 2023 TCS New York City Marathon where you came to
sing the national anthem and did so spectacularly, of course,
as you would. And then I think you must be
(16:04):
the only person ever to do this, I can't prove
it, but to then, after singing the anthem, go down
and run the TCS New York City Marathon and do it
pretty well also with a time of just around four
hours. And that, I guess, kind of sums up the
magic that is Patina Miller. It's incredible that you are
able to pull that off. So how? How did you
(16:26):
do it that day? How'd you sing and then run?
I guess maybe the running was harder than the singing,
but you tell me.
Patina Miller (16:35):
Looking back, there were some things I'd do a little
different. I would probably not run straight away. I just
didn't know that the vibes are just so strong that after
getting off of the podium and singing the anthem and
thanking God that I knew all the words because when
you're so nervous, you're like, " Please don't let me flub."
(16:58):
Everybody knows the anthem. Am I going to flub a
line? I'm worried about my pacing, I'm worrying about, I
hope it's not too hot. All these things are going
on in my head and then to sing, get through
it and then be ushered to get in there, it
was a lot. But I'm so happy it set me up to
have a great first part of my race, which I
was really, really happy about.
Becs Gentry (17:20):
Oh my gosh. Well, I think that is a warmup
like no one else has ever-
Patina Miller (17:28):
(inaudible) .
Becs Gentry (17:27):
As a running coach for a very long time, I
have never even thought about the benefits of doing a diaphragmatic
warmup only really to get you to get your lungs, to get your
breathing ready. But clearly, as you said, it set you
up for the first half, you said there.
Patina Miller (17:46):
Yes.
Becs Gentry (17:48):
(inaudible) on the other half. Fill us in.
Patina Miller (17:50):
Well, I think all the vibes. I think everybody always
talks about the energy and don't get swept up in the
energy, but I was like, " You know what? I just
was on stage and I was singing the anthem and
everybody's here." I'm watching these elite runners get ready and
just being so up close to all of that. And then
seeing everybody, all different colors, shapes, sizes out there, so
(18:12):
excited to run. I was excited too. I was so excited to come back in 2023. I had not the best race my
first race in 2022, so I was just so excited
by the vibes of people and everyone just putting it
all out there at like 7
And I got swept up in it. And then halfway
(18:33):
through, reality did set in. It did.
Becs Gentry (18:38):
Yeah, that Pulaski Bridge can really wake you up.
Patina Miller (18:44):
What? Reality set in, it was like, "Oh, I have to work. Oh, I have
strategy." Bring it back to the strategy, what are we
going to do? I really had to lock in.
Rob Simmelkjaer (18:54):
Hey, I got to just point out some of your
times because your improvement from '22 to '23 was remarkable
in the marathon. Now, we all know 2022 was a really hard
year to run. The weather was difficult. We all know
that. You ran it in 4
41 minutes off your time in 2023, so maybe the
(19:18):
second half was a struggle for you. You did have
one of those dreaded just over an hour mark times.
We know those are frustrating. Four hours and 36 minutes.
Patina Miller (19:29):
What? So frustrating.
Rob Simmelkjaer (19:31):
Sorry, four hours and 36 seconds, I should say, 4
36. We know those are challenging times, but did you
feel good about that race? And I guess it felt
good enough to keep running, so that's good.
Patina Miller (19:46):
Every time. So it's so funny. Since I started my
running journey, the process of training is always hard and there
are moments during the training process, not... I'm filming a
TV show, that's really hard. And I'm a mother coming
home doing all these things. And the training process was
really great for me because it gave me time to
(20:08):
myself where I wasn't a character. Still mom, but in
a different way. But to then finally get to the
race that you've prepared for and to lock in, you've
trained, to get to the point of like you know
what? In my career, if I work really hard, I
can get the things that I want. That's how I've lived
(20:28):
my life. If I train hard, if I work on
my voice, if I train my body up enough, I
can get on stage and I can be there eight
shows a week. If I practice my lines, if I really
study with my acting coach, then at some point I
will do better and at some point I will get role
and someone will say yes. So I brought all of
(20:50):
those things to running like you know what? I'm going
to train right, I'm going to try and get my
nutrition right. I'm going to do all these things and
that's going to take me to the place that I
need to go. Especially, since the year before, Crash and
Burn had all these things. So I got really excited
for all of the tools that I had in my
tool belt. But to get so close to my little sub-
(21:14):
four dream, it was crushing. But then I said, " You
know what? You shaved off all that time off of
your marathon and you worked so hard and you were so smart."
And to get out there and do it again and
say yes again, to be frightened and scared again, but
so excited. When I went across that finish line, I
(21:34):
was just so proud of myself. I was.
Becs Gentry (21:37):
Good. So you should be, and that comes from somebody
who is a something, something (inaudible) one person are
a lot of the most recent races I have run. I seem
to have that, well, I can't get faster than that
one second over. But anyway, let's take it back to
2022. As we said, that was your first New York Road
Runners race was the 2022 TCS New York City Marathon. It
(22:01):
was a brutally humid day, it was just ugh. Everybody
struggled that day, for sure. So you weren't alone in
feeling that disbelief at the, I don't know, 24 mile
marker. I remember seeing a lot of faces of like,
you know what, no, I don't want to do the
last two. (inaudible) did. But let's talk about what
(22:21):
else you were doing at that time because your life
outside of training to run a marathon, which is gigantic,
was you were in the middle of your run of
Into the Woods, eight shows a week. Mom. Not just
working a bit more, you're performing sometime on Broadway. It's
nuts. So how? How, Patina, did you fit everything in?
(22:48):
What was your schedule?
Patina Miller (22:49):
Well, first off, I relied on my community at home,
my husband, my beautiful teenage nieces who would sort of
serve as babysitters for me. I had amazing coaches, I
trained with really cool people and my friends. And I
would not back out. Once I got Into the Woods,
(23:10):
I had already signed up for the marathon and I
was like, "You know what, no, I'm going to keep... I'm not
going to back out. I know it's going to be
hard. It's eight shows a week. I don't know where
I'm going to find the time to train, but I'm
going to do it." And I loved the experience of
being in Into the Woods and I always say being
on Broadway, it's like being an athlete. It's like a
(23:30):
marathon because you're doing it over and over and over
again every night. So I knew that I was set
up for success if I paced myself in the journey
of before I go to the theater, what am I
doing in the mornings? How can I fit my runs
in? Do I fit them on a two show day?
Do I run in between shows? And I did that. I did that a lot.
(23:52):
I remember my cast members being like, "What are you doing? This
is crazy."
Rob Simmelkjaer (23:56):
So you would run between a matinee and the show at night?
Patina Miller (24:00):
Yes.
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:00):
Wow.
Patina Miller (24:00):
Yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:01):
That's amazing.
Patina Miller (24:01):
You know what? It was actually really great because a lot of
times when you're doing a show where you have to
be all over the stage and it's so high intense,
it's like two hours and 30 minutes of a lot of emotion. To
kind of have to do it over again, if you
stop, that's where the trouble starts. Your voice starts to
get tired, your body starts to get tired. So for
(24:23):
me, picking up and running in between shows was kind
of like a nice little energy burst that would carry
me to the next show. After the last show, different story.
Becs Gentry (24:37):
(inaudible) .
Patina Miller (24:37):
Terrible idea. I remember thinking that was a terrible idea.
Becs Gentry (24:45):
Oh my gosh.
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:45):
It's so interesting to hear this and I remember hearing
Patina's stories about Taylor Swift and you probably heard about
this, during her tour-
Patina Miller (24:54):
(inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (24:55):
And when she was preparing and training for that tour,
the Eras Tour, she was on the treadmill. And she
was running on the treadmill and singing the songs while
on the treadmill to build that, I guess the lung
capacity and the endurance. So I imagine you can relate
to that. It sounds to me like running really does
(25:17):
complement what you're doing as a live performer.
Patina Miller (25:20):
Oh my god, yes. There's a lot of memorization that
happens. There's a lot of thinking about your character and
really just having those moments to really lock in and
think about your character, think about the lyrics. Sondheim is
not easy. So for me, running and the repetition of
just the beat of running, you know what I mean?
(25:42):
And having to do the Witch's Rat, which is very
fast and it's like beans, beans, nothing but beans. All
of these different syncopations of that I kind of used
with the running as well. So when I'm out there, I
wasn't just training for the mileage, but I was also,
my memorization and figuring out my blocking and it became
(26:02):
very visual for me to just zone out and think
about the work. And even for my character that I
played on TV, because midway through that run and training
I started my third thing, which was filming for Raising
Kanan during that time. So I had to use running
as a way to do it all.
Becs Gentry (26:23):
Wow.
Patina Miller (26:24):
If that makes any sense.
Rob Simmelkjaer (26:25):
It does. It does. It's fascinating. I just have to ask this one
question though. Do you run with music when all this
is going on in your life? Or it sounds like
maybe you run to silence, but the music of your
shows is going through your head. What's happening there?
Patina Miller (26:41):
So during Into the Woods, I definitely would run in
silence, for sure. I always started the run because I
just needed the motivation. I did not want to be singing Into
the woods when I started the run, just to get
into it. But halfway through, I would turn the music
off or turn it down and I just start reciting
my lines or reciting lyrics from the show because we
(27:02):
didn't have a lot of time. The transfer from City
Center, if you were a newbie to Broadway, was like two
and a half weeks. So we had to learn, a
lot of the new people had to learn the entire
show. Thankfully, I had known the show from when I
did it in 2019. But there were a lot of
things I had to memorize and get ready for our
production on Broadway. So I had limited time to really
(27:27):
lock in and focus, and running definitely helped.
Becs Gentry (27:31):
Oh my gosh. So alongside all of these elements of
your life, just throwing challenges at you, you're physical in
so many different ways. Both of your marathons you've run
though for a cause, which I'm guessing gives you that
extra impetus to keep going when the days are tough.
And you decided to support the charity Komera. And it
(27:55):
works with young women in Rwanda and it's a beautiful,
beautiful cause. So just tell our listeners, why is this
charity specifically important to you to make your races feel
like it's a bigger purpose?
Patina Miller (28:10):
So when I was searching for what I... I told my trainer at the time, I
was like, " Well, you know what? If I'm signing up,"
because she's like, " What's your birthday? It'd be so great
to run a marathon." And I was like, " Would it?"
I was like, " But I need to run for a
cause, I need to run for something and I want to
be very specific about what I want to run for."
And women and children, that's always something that's really important
(28:32):
to me. I've been so blessed and fortunate in my
journey to have really great mentors in my life that
changed the trajectory of my life. So when I was
deciding on what charities to support, I wanted to really
find one that really spoke to me. And this one
spoke to me. It was about advocating for young women
(28:53):
in Rwanda and using the gift and the beauty of
running to arm these girls with the necessary tools to
be their best selves. And a lot of the money
we raised, I loved it, it was sending women to college
for a year. And this was like $1, 000 could send
(29:13):
a girl there for four years of college. So I
really felt like I was making a difference in my
own small way of raising money and just thinking what
it meant to those women. And all of the people
who serve on that charity and the work that they've
done, they love it so much. Being able to have
(29:33):
the resources to talk about the different issues and then
being able to speak to the girls and figure out what
they're doing, who graduated, it was a lot of joy
and it really kept me going because it did get
dark. It always gets dark when you're training and so
to run 26.2 miles, it had to be for something
(29:54):
important. And I always try to use my platform for
things that I believe in, things that... Just try and
find ways to make a difference in my own little
way. And through my platform, I was able to do
that with running. So yeah, running for a cause is
always great.
Becs Gentry (30:11):
(inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (30:13):
Patina, your origin story is interesting. You grew up in
South Carolina, small town. And like a lot of young
performers, you realized, it sounds like your mother also realized
at a young age that you had some talent and
you left home to go, at 15 years old you
(30:35):
left home to go attend a performing arts high school.
Where was that?
Patina Miller (30:39):
That was in Greenville, South Carolina. It was the South
Carolina Governor's School for the Arts and Humanities.
Rob Simmelkjaer (30:44):
All right. And that is really, it's a young age to
leave home. It sounds like you kind of knew from
a young age this is what you were meant to
do, right? Is that fair? And how has that-
Patina Miller (30:58):
Yeah, it's very fair.
Rob Simmelkjaer (30:59):
How has that evolved for you now being in New
York? It's happened. You're one of those people, you meet
people in life who are still figuring out what they
want to be at like... Lots of us, right?
Patina Miller (31:09):
Yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (31:09):
20- something, 30- something, 40- something, right? Still trying to
figure it out.
Patina Miller (31:13):
For sure.
Rob Simmelkjaer (31:13):
And I'm always interested what it's like to be one
of those people who knows at such a young age
what you want to be and then you just have
to work and execute, as you have done.
Patina Miller (31:26):
Yeah, it was a dream. Early in my life, I
knew I always wanted to perform and I didn't know how that
was going to happen. So whenever we found this school,
it felt just like, oh my God, I have to
go. The dream in some ways became a little bit
of reality. There was a place that I could go
(31:47):
and train and I could be with professionals and they
would teach me all the necessary things to go to
this next level. So when I got in, I know
what I was doing. The first time I auditioned to
get into the school, I remember going to the library
and looking at plays and that was the first time
I had ever had read a monologue. And I just
(32:10):
remember just doing it and my mom encouraged me to do
it and to memorize it and to sign up and
I was like, " You know what? Yeah, okay, I'm going
to do this. I really want to be an actress.
Who knows if I'm good enough to get into this
school, but I'm just going to do it." And I
did it and I got in and it changed my
life. I got to experience a world that I did
(32:35):
not know I could have. To go to the school
for free, being in South Carolina where the arts unfortunately
are not as appreciated as it should. And that's a
lot of places, arts programming is always the first to
be taken out. The arts is what saved me in
(32:57):
a way. And this dream became a bigger reality after
being there and learning about different schools and schools that
I could go to continue my training to finally maybe
make it on Broadway or maybe do a show. And
to get, I got a full scholarship to Carnegie Mellon.
I was one of 12 in my musical theater class.
(33:21):
And I said when I got there I was going
to work my butt off. I was going to do
everything I needed to do to learn the things that
I needed and I was going to do it. Nobody
could stop me at that point. It's like I'm going
to make this happen one way or the other. And
I just am so thankful, so thankful through hard work,
dedication, a lot of nos, but also some really great
(33:42):
opportunities and some yes, some yeses in my life that
it transformed and changed my life.
Rob Simmelkjaer (33:50):
Becks, listening to Patina, there's so many parallels you can
draw with running and the trajectory that one has to
take to be successful. All those setbacks, all the challenges,
all the nos, as you put it. And Becks, we
can all relate to that in a way through running,
right? And the days maybe our body says no instead
of some casting director.
Becs Gentry (34:12):
(inaudible) all of it, there are. There are so
many nos. But Patina, you touched on it earlier when
we talked about the plethora of things that I feel
like is constantly going on in your life. You're a
yes person, you are someone with what appears to be
a really, really strong work ethic, somebody who wants to
(34:34):
succeed and share your success and your journey with others.
But you are a big family person as well and
having your lovely nieces around to babysit your daughter when
she was younger. But you didn't do your marathon solo,
right? I understand that your-
Patina Miller (34:55):
Did not.
Becs Gentry (34:55):
... husband, David, he ran it with you as well?
Patina Miller (34:57):
He did. He did.
Becs Gentry (34:58):
How did that go? Because sometimes the husband, wife, partners running
can get a little bit...
Patina Miller (35:09):
Well, yeah, you know. It was back and forth. We had some
really... The long runs were really great. Sometimes the long
runs are really great, sometimes the long runs were like, "
Okay, you go run there, I'm going to go run
here." But what I love about my husband is he
loves to push me. And when I get so caught
(35:31):
up and I don't feel like I can do it,
he's the one in my ear like, " You got it,
just keep going, just keep going." Meanwhile, he's over there
suffering too, but he'd never let me know. So the
first year, the hot year that we both had, he
just jumped into training at 16 weeks. He was just like, "
Oh, I'll run, I'll run with you." And yeah, who does that?
(35:56):
I was so jealous first. And then he runs with
me and I start getting cramps and I'm like, " I
don't know if I can do it." We would stop every at every
water and he would massage my cramp, he would massage
my leg and we continued, we continued. And then we'd
go another 10 minutes and I'm like, " I can't, I can't do
(36:16):
it." He'd get down there, we'd move off to the
side, he'd be massaging my legs. So this poor man
for 13 miles, we stop, start, he massaged me. So
yeah, we may, could get a little testy, but he
is definitely my ride or die in terms when it
comes to running. We try to run our races together,
(36:37):
we try to push each other, like all things. It's
never perfect. There could be a little, " You go over
there, you don't run with me today and I don't
want it," but at the end of the day we
have such a good time running.
Becs Gentry (36:52):
That is (inaudible) .
Rob Simmelkjaer (36:54):
Hey, a partner who will give you a massage when
you need one in the middle of a race, like, hey-
Patina Miller (36:58):
Middle of the race.
Rob Simmelkjaer (36:58):
You can't beat that.
Patina Miller (36:58):
Come on now.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:00):
That is legit partnership right there.
Becs Gentry (37:04):
It's so, so cute for your daughter to see as well.
Oh, maybe you not see it, but hear about mom
and dad.
Patina Miller (37:09):
Yes. Yes.
Becs Gentry (37:09):
Mom and dad are like the ultimate team goal right there.
Patina Miller (37:13):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now she runs. She ran her first
two miles on Sunday.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:17):
Oh, nice.
Patina Miller (37:18):
It was great, she's like (inaudible) and she was like, " I
want to do it." So she ran two miles. It was hilarious.
She was so proud.
Becs Gentry (37:26):
(inaudible) congratulations mama. That is so good.
Patina Miller (37:28):
It was fun. It was really, really fun.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:30):
We got to see her in one of our Road
Runners Youth Races hopefully very soon.
Patina Miller (37:34):
Oh, you will. On her birthday, she'll be running for
the Percy Sutton. Yeah, she's going to be running.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:39):
Amazing. That's fantastic.
Becs Gentry (37:39):
The Harlem 5K. Yoo-hoo.
Patina Miller (37:39):
Yeah.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:39):
Well, that is awesome.
Becs Gentry (37:39):
Oh, fantastic.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:39):
And you-
Becs Gentry (37:39):
And you've been coaching.
Rob Simmelkjaer (37:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Patina Miller (37:49):
Well, trying. She likes to do her own thing. She's
a Leo, so she thinks she has it all worked
out. She's like, " I got this. I got this." So
she's excited to run for us like you know what,
it's not a heavy lift. You're not going to run
the 5K. They said for the kids, I think for
(38:10):
your birthday it would be really fun, doing to her what my
trainer did to me about signing up for a race
on my birthday. I was like, " It'd be so fun."
She's like, " Yeah, it'd be so fun. I think I'd
like to do it."
Rob Simmelkjaer (38:23):
It'll be great. It'll be great. We love it.
Patina Miller (38:24):
Yeah, it'd be fun.
Rob Simmelkjaer (38:24):
And it's not just your daughter that you are inspiring to run.
You are, as I mentioned at the top, serving as
a mentor for our Run for the Future program, which,
for those who don't know, is a program for high
school aged girls who really haven't been runners before and
they get trained and mentored into running their very first
(38:44):
5K. And what a mentor for them to have, Patina,
to have someone like you, a Broadway star show up.
What was that like? You just were with that group
a few days ago as we taped this podcast. What
was that like for you? And I'm curious, what did
you see in their faces as this Broadway star shows
(39:05):
up to tell them about running and help lead them
on one of their first training runs?
Patina Miller (39:11):
Well, I was just so excited to be there. I was so excited to have
the opportunity to serve in that capacity. And I thought, "
If I could just share some words of wisdom, some
words of encouragement." I know what it's like to start something
that's scary. Something that's so scary you don't think that
you'd ever be able to do it. So I just
love the fact that they all decided on their own
(39:33):
that they wanted to take on a journey of running
a 5K. And that's not an easy thing to do.
You know what I mean? Yeah, we can say running
is easy, but to some it's not. And for me,
that wasn't my case. It was scary for me when
I first started, so I just wanted to get there
to just lock eyes with some of them, take it
(39:53):
all in, look at it like, " Oh, I was there."
I wish I would've had something like this younger to
get started with running even younger. But I was happy
to be there that day and they were so excited.
Some of them were terrified, some of them were like,
their faces were like, " What did I get into? Why
(40:16):
did I sign up for this?" So to see that
inside, to see the talk. I just talked to them
about signing your why and why are you running? Why
you want to do it. Congratulating them on starting and
just sharing with them my own personal journey of starting
to run and the freedom I feel when I run and
(40:36):
the happiness I feel and the moment, the mental health
capacity of it. I wanted to share that with them
of how running makes me feel and how you can
use it when you have frustrating times. And being a
young girl in high school can sometimes not be the
easiest thing. A lot of them are starting their college
journeys and they'll be thinking about all that. So to
(41:00):
have this tool, to have this program with so many
wonderful volunteers. There were so many cool people there, just
there to just be there and serve as sort of
a sounding board for them to help them through for
that day. And to get them out there and we
started our run. My girl, who was so fierce, she's
(41:23):
like... I was like, " Where do you want to go? In
the front or the back?" And I'm thinking she's going to say like, "
No, let's (inaudible) in the back." She's like, " Let's
go to the front. Let's go to the front." So
I'm like, " Okay, girl, it's a 5K. I just ran
speed, let's..." I was like, " What are you trying to do?" And she's like, "I think I want to do it in 25 minutes."
Rob Simmelkjaer (41:37):
Wow.
Patina Miller (41:37):
I was like, " Okay, track star." Now, she does run track.
Rob Simmelkjaer (41:47):
Okay. Okay.
Patina Miller (41:48):
She does run track and she's never done long distance
and she's like, " I think I'm going to do 25 minutes." I was like, "
Okay. Sure, it's a practice. Okay." I was like, "You sure? You want to start slow?" I
kept saying, " Well, just remember we want to start slow
to get faster." Trying to think about you, Becs, think about all the
(42:09):
running coaches like, " Let's start a little slower than we
do it when we get out there." And she's breathing, she
has this, like I'm looking at her running and she's
so chill, not afraid. She's just so confident in herself. She
was running with her friend who had a coach as
well and she just seemed so sure of herself. She
(42:30):
knew she had a time. She listened to me, what
I said like, " Let's start a little slower." And I
watched her breathing and this girl, it's hot as crap outside.
She's using this technique where she didn't open, she didn't
breathe through her mouth. She was just breathing through her
nose and I was like, " What?" I was like, " Excuse
me, so how do you do that?" I'm supposed to
(42:53):
be mentoring her, but she was giving me tips. And
we had the best time. She finished the run in
like 25 minutes.
Rob Simmelkjaer (43:01):
Wow.
Patina Miller (43:01):
Right. She said she wanted to and she's just so
excited to run. So I saw that a lot in
a lot of the girls finishing, it being tough from
the start, but watching them come back, because we did
kind of little run around. And watching them come back and
the confidence that they had in their face, the relief
of doing something that was hard, that's why I did it.
(43:22):
That right there. And that's the reason that I will
show up in any capacity I can for the program
and I can't wait to run on August 9th.
Rob Simmelkjaer (43:32):
Wow. We really appreciate you being a part of it. What
an amazing experience for these girls to run with you
and get to learn from you. It's really a gift,
so thank you for mentoring as part of that program.
Okay, before we let you go, I need to know,
because runners like to ask each other, " What's next?" So
(43:53):
I need to know what's next for you both as
a runner, Patina, and also as an actor, what's coming
up next?
Patina Miller (44:00):
So what's coming up next right now is, so our
final season finally, not our final season, the final season
of Raising Kanan will be airing soon. I just finished
up my run in the show this past April, which is amazing.
(44:20):
So I'm doing a lot of different things. I'm working
on music right now that I am maybe releasing soon.
I'm having some that artist thing of like is it
good enough? And I'm working on an animated show called
Hazbin Hotel, so that. So I'm just kind of in
(44:41):
the phase of working on a lot of different things.
Coming off of a show, I've been on TV for
11 years, I've had this moment to kind of think
about what I want to do next and just really
think about it. Doing the TV work, I'd love to
come back to Broadway in some way, shape, or form, whether
that's producing or starring in something else. But the next
(45:02):
thing for me running- wise is I am going to
be running the New York City Marathon one more time
to try and get my sub- four.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:10):
Yes. Patina, there are easier places to get your sub-
four than New York City. Now, we want you to
do it in New York.
Patina Miller (45:18):
I know.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:18):
Trust me, we want it in New York. But you
could go to Chicago. I hear you're going for the
six stars, so there's Chicago, there's Berlin. It still counts,
but it's not the same, of course, as doing it in
New York.
Patina Miller (45:30):
It's not.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:30):
So I applaud you and appreciate you for going for
it in New York City because if you can do
it, there's a saying, I think I heard once or
twice, if you can-
Patina Miller (45:40):
Do it here.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:40):
If you can do it there.
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Perfect.
Patina Miller (45:46):
Totally. Totally.
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Perfect.
Patina Miller (45:46):
Absolutely.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:46):
Oh my gosh.
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Oh my gosh.
Rob Simmelkjaer (45:46):
So great having-
Becs Gentry (45:46):
Well, good, good, good luck for all of them. I can't wait
to see your daughter shine on her birthday race.
Patina Miller (45:57):
Thank you.
Becs Gentry (46:00):
(inaudible) we'll be cheering you on so loud.
Rob Simmelkjaer (46:01):
Yeah, we'll see you in Harlem. I'll be there. Can't
wait to see you there.
Patina Miller (46:04):
Yes, you will. Thank you guys so much.
Rob Simmelkjaer (46:04):
And keep after it. All right. Patina Miller, the one and only. Thank you very
much, joining us here on Set the Pace.
Patina Miller (46:11):
Take care.
Rob Simmelkjaer (46:13):
New York Road Runners is a non- profit organization with
a vision to build healthier lives and stronger communities through
the transformative power of running. The support of members and
donors like you helps us achieve our mission to transform
the health and well- being of our communities through inclusive
and accessible running experiences, empowering all to achieve their potential.
(46:34):
Learn more and contribute at nyrr. org/ donate. Leanna Scaglione
began her athletic journey training to be a professional ballerina,
but a series of major health challenges led to a
diagnosis of neurofibromatosis during her teenage years. After multiple surgeries
and learning to walk again, Leanna found a new athletic outlet in
(46:57):
running, joining the CTF NF Endurance Team during the pandemic. 49
New York Road Runners races later, Leanna is the 2025
National Ambassador for the Children's Tumor Foundation and is aiming
for her fourth Abbott World Marathon Major Star at the 2025
Berlin Marathon.
Meb Keflezighi (47:18):
Thanks, Rob. Great to have Leanna to the show, Set
the Pace. How are you doing today?
Leanna Scaglione (47:24):
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.
Meb Keflezighi (47:26):
Our pleasure. You start wanting to be a ballerina, but
everything changed after the NF diagnosis. What do you remember
most about that time?
Leanna Scaglione (47:35):
That was probably one of the most difficult times in
my life. I was one of those kids that had
everything planned out when they were nine years old. I
had everything planned for training, what ballet school I wanted
to go to, college, what company I eventually wanted to
audition for. So at 16, when I thought I was
(47:59):
just injured, which any athlete can relate to as seeing
as devastating, and finding out that it was more than
an injury and it was actually a tumor, and then
landing in a wheelchair and going from all this dancing
to then nothing, I was lost. I didn't know where
(48:22):
my life would go after that.
Meb Keflezighi (48:23):
Amazing. How was your mental status after the surgery? You
had to relearn how to walk. And what was the
hardest part of the starting over? And what helped you
keep going?
Leanna Scaglione (48:35):
I was angry. I won't lie, I was very angry
at that time. I truly felt like I went through
the five stages of grief. I felt like I really
lost something when I found out I couldn't pursue ballet
professionally. So I really was angry, I was stubborn, and
(48:56):
that really motivated me to get moving again because I
didn't want to admit that things were changing for me.
So I was doing everything in my power to hold
onto that dream of being a ballerina. And fast- forward
years later, I accept the fact that it's not going
(49:17):
to happen and put my focus elsewhere.
Meb Keflezighi (49:22):
Well, good for you not giving up and be able to just persevere. You joined the
NF Endurance Team after seeing another runner in the End
NF shirt at the NYC Half Marathon. What was it like to
realize you weren't alone on the course?
Leanna Scaglione (49:38):
That experience, I take that as a sign from the
universe because from when I was diagnosed back in 2007,
when I was 16, up until 2022, which was my
first half- marathon ever in my life, I also found
(49:59):
out some pretty unfortunate news in regards to my NF.
For all that time, I was what was considered a
watch and wait patient, which means we're going to monitor
whatever existing tumors you have, but we're not going to
really do anything about them. And yes, I went on
various drug trials to hopefully shrink them, but there was
(50:23):
no urgency behind needing these trials to succeed or having
to get surgery done. And in 2022, I found out
that I needed to go on another drug trial and
I really needed it to work. So dealing with my NF,
it started to change for me and I really had
(50:44):
to acknowledge it a lot more and take on the
responsibility of what was going to happen next in my
life. And I wasn't connected to the NF community. I was
very much dealing with my NF all on my own.
And seeing this runner up ahead of me with this
shirt on that said, " End NF," on the back, it
(51:06):
was a sign from the universe, like I said, saying, "
The community's calling out to you. Follow this runner, see
where they're going." And lo and behold, they were with
Children's Tumor Foundation, they have a team for the New
York City Half Marathon as well as the New York
City Marathon and so far all of the other marathon majors,
except for Boston so far. And it's just in my
(51:30):
gut knew that this is where I needed to go
and where I needed to belong.
Meb Keflezighi (51:36):
Wow, incredible that you were in that race and you
saw that sign and the universe helped you realize what
you can do even more beyond yourself. Since you started
running during the pandemics, have you noticed any ways that
your approach to running, like how you train, how you
deal with setbacks feel different because of the expectation with the
(51:56):
illness and recovery?
Leanna Scaglione (51:58):
It's definitely changed throughout the years with my running. When
I first started during the pandemic, it was an escape
for me to get outside of the four walls of
my living room and just to get some air. And
then joining New York Road Runners and participating in the
(52:18):
races in Central Park, it was really exhilarating. I felt
like I found a hobby that I could really latch
onto and enjoy and have that purpose again like I
did with the ballet. And when the things with my
NF started to change and I was on a chemotherapy
(52:40):
drug trial for 2022 to 2023 and then surgery for 2024 and
now again on another immunotherapy treatment, it changed how I
had to train for things. The side effects affected my
(53:00):
heart rate, my breathing capabilities. And I just had to
reflect on my abilities and be like, " Hey, you're still
out here doing it. Yeah, you may not be going
as fast as you typically do, but you're on a
treatment and you just ran six miles. Give yourself some
credit." So it definitely taught myself to listen to my
(53:23):
body and just ease up on myself and be proud
of the smaller moments and achievements that I was able
to have.
Meb Keflezighi (53:31):
Incredible. Leanna, you overcame so much obstacle. You might not
have been the ballerina that you wanted to, but you're a true
champion and you have overcome so many obstacles to be
an ambassador for Children Tumor Foundation. We are so grateful
to have you. But you also are aiming to be
the first person with NF too to earn all six
(53:54):
World Major Marathon Stars. What will that mean to you?
Leanna Scaglione (54:00):
So I, taking it as a personal sense of I've
defeated my NF. Unfortunately, there is no cure for any
type of NF. There's three types, NF1, NF2-related schwannomatosis, which is
what I have, and schwannomatosis. There's, like I said, no
(54:22):
cure for any of them. Hopefully, science is moving forward
in the direction to get a cure and that is
what CTF's main focus is, is funding research so we
can get there. But being able to even get the
six stars alone would just be an amazing personal achievement
(54:42):
just for myself to show to myself that I defeated
my NF in a way. But to be the first
person to do it, I think would be incredible in
a way to show the world what people with NF
can do. And those of us who also have NF,
to see that your life isn't bound by your diagnosis
(55:05):
and you can live beyond it.
Meb Keflezighi (55:07):
Pretty incredible story. Wish you all the best and thank
for sharing your story here with us.
Leanna Scaglione (55:11):
Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be
able to share with you.
Rob Simmelkjaer (55:15):
All right, thank you Meb and thank you Leanna for being
a member of New York Road Runners. Now, it's time
for the final part of our show, today's Meb Minute. And it's Meb's mile- by-
mile countdown to the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon. Today, Meb
is here to kick us off with miles one and two.
Meb Keflezighi (55:33):
Thanks, Rob. Welcome to my mile- by- mile countdown to
the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon. Mile one, a steady
uphill climb, the start of Staten Island is cold and
windy. (inaudible) the national anthem had just been played
and it's the iconic views. Resist pushing too hard in this
(55:55):
exhilarating crowd and climb. The Verrazzano Bridge is the highest
point of the marathon route, but it's also an incredible
view. Pace is not important, just climb up the hill
nice and steady. Mile two, a long downhill as you
descend into Brooklyn. Great opportunity to shed layers and find
(56:17):
a pace that disciplines to be able to be the
best you can. Pace is irrelevant at this point because you're going
down the hill. You just went uphill, now downhill pace
is are relevant, but enjoy the camaraderie of people above
of the bridge, down the bridge. Just have fun.
Rob Simmelkjaer (56:36):
And that does it for another episode of Set The
Pace. We want to thank our incredible guest today, Patina
Miller, along with our New York Road Runners member, Leanna
Scaglione. If you liked the episode, make sure you rate
it, subscribe, leave a comment, we'd love to hear from
you, and of course that will help others find the
show as well. Hope everybody has a great week. Beat
(56:58):
the heat, enjoy the miles, and we'll see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com