September 6, 2024 • 34 mins
Tune in to this special episode recorded live at the NYRR RUNCENTER featuring the New Balance Run Hub as Becs talks with Peloton’s Alex Karwoski, a dedicated rowing instructor and multifaceted athlete. He competed at the Olympic Games in Rio and was an alternate for the Olympics in Tokyo. Now, Alex is setting his sights on the road ahead and is training for his first marathon, the 2024 TCS New York City Marathon. Alex shares with the live audience how he’s making the transition from rowing to running as he trains to get to the start line on November 3, and why he enjoys running more than rowing!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:00):
Take your running to the next level with the Peloton
Tread+. Featuring a rubberized shock- absorbing slap belt, it's designed
to optimize your runs and walks to the fullest potential.
With classes designed and led by expert level coaches, you'll
get the guidance you need to reach your running goals.
Whether you're just a beginner or consider yourself a pro
runner, Peloton is here to support and challenge you every
(00:23):
step of the way. All- access membership separate. Learn more
about Peloton Tread at onepeloton. com/ running. Peloton, the official
digital fitness partner for New York Road Runners. Thank you
New York. Today, we're reminded of the power of community
(00:44):
and the power of coming together. Athletes, on your mark.
The first woman to finish for the second straight year
here in the New York City Marathon is Miki Gorman, a smiling
Miki Gorman. And why not? 2
Look at the emotion of Shalane Flanagan as she
(01:05):
comes to the line. Pointing to his chest, pointed to
the USA he so proudly wears across his chest. A
great day for Matt Kaplusky.
Becs Gentry (01:19):
Hello, hello. All right, everybody. Welcome to Set the Pace
presented by Peloton. I'm Becs Gentry and I'm holding down
the fort today whilst my wonderful and usual co- host
Rob Simmelkjaer, CEO of New York Roadrunners. He's a little
under the weather. He's training for Berlin Marathon, so we
want to send him lots of love and well wishes.
(01:43):
So I've told Rob to go rest because I've totally
got this. I've totally got this, right? So forgive me
if I sound a little out of breath, but we
have just got back from a lovely run. Okay, we
are at the New York Roadrunners Run Center, featuring the
New Balance run Hub, directly after our New Balance 5th
(02:03):
Avenue Mile, warm- up run, presented by Peloton today. So
many words and titles there. Oh my goodness. But we
got it. We got it in. I'm very honored to
have our guest sitting next to me here. He is
a friend, a colleague, a massive inspiration, the fabulous Alex
(02:25):
Karwoski. So we've just run with these wonderful people here
in front of us ahead of New Balance Fifth Av
Mile happening on Sunday, and Alex has agreed to hang
out with us a little longer today so I can
ask him a few questions. For those of you who
(02:45):
don't know him, perhaps check him out on Peloton first
and foremost. But he is an absolute marvel. He is
not just a Peloton instructor, a fabulous Peloton rowing instructor.
He is a multifaceted athlete. He was competed in Rio.
He was an alternate in Tokyo. And now, like many
(03:09):
of you, Alex is training for his first marathon, the
2024 TCS New York City Marathon. I got to say I
am smugly happy about this.
Alex Karwoski (03:26):
I'm very excited. I'm sorry, I didn't know when I'm
supposed to jump in, but that's-
Becs Gentry (03:28):
Anytime.
Alex Karwoski (03:28):
... too much of an intro. Just for the record,
I'm sitting next to you. I'm not a runner. All
of these folks just ran with me. They saw my
form, so it's going to be a marathon. I'm not
sure it's going to be a fast one, but it's
going to be a marathon.
Becs Gentry (03:41):
I know he's lying. And you all know he's lying,
because as you said, you just ran with him. Beautiful
running form. And we're all runners. We're all runners. We
just all move at different paces, right? Yeah, forward is pace.
Alex Karwoski (03:54):
I say that with rowing. It is right. There is no wrong form in
rowing. It's just your form. No one gets injured, but
there are about, as I can tell, 34 different ways
to row correctly, so you're good.
Becs Gentry (04:05):
I'm the 35th when it comes to my rowing classes.
Alex Karwoski (04:08):
It's not true.
Becs Gentry (04:11):
Okay, Alex, there are so many things I want to
know, and I'm sure there are so many things our
listeners want to know about you. I'm sure a lot
of our listeners have taken class with you. I'm sure
they all follow you @ AlexPeloton on Instagram. There's not enough
dog content, by the way.
Alex Karwoski (04:27):
I try to post once a month. Sometimes it's once
a quarter.
Becs Gentry (04:32):
He rivals Dennis Morton. Alex has a beautiful golden retriever
as well. We are golden retriever parents up here, proud.
Alex Karwoski (04:40):
Not great running partners as it turns out.
Becs Gentry (04:42):
No.
Alex Karwoski (04:42):
Not.
Becs Gentry (04:43):
No. Maurice is on the DIET right now. Summer got him
bad. Anyway, talking about rowing and transitioning to running, because
I and everybody want to know how you have altered
your training as you are preparing to run 26.2, in
(05:07):
comparison to training for the games.
Alex Karwoski (05:13):
The games. I will say, rowing inherently it's a team
sport, for sure. I know there is the single skull,
so you can do it by yourself, but it requires
a lot of people, a lot of getting to the
boathouse, getting the oars down, having the right equipment. Oh,
(05:36):
this wheel on the seat isn't doing what you want
it to do, so let's replace that. There's just a
lot of steps. And obviously when you streamline that, sure
it gets going. But with running, what I've really enjoyed
over the last three and a half months or so,
has just been, its wonderful simplicity to it. And I
know I'm not downplaying it at all. It's still such
(05:56):
a complicated, trying to figure out how to just get
that 1% faster. But being able to put on my
pair of shorts, put on my tank top shirt, whatever
it is, and I now have, thanks to Becs, I've
ordered more pairs of running shoes that I'm going to
race in. And not just train in, but race in
so my body gets familiar with that. It's just simple.
And in that simplicity I've found, and this might be
(06:19):
like a knock on rowing, but slightly more enjoyment out
of it. And that could also be because with rowing,
I was always very focused on okay, beating... I had
my friends, I had my teammates, but most of them
were ports and I'm a starboard. With running we're all
just trying to finish and doing that. So I found more
enjoyment in the running.
Becs Gentry (06:41):
Wow. Wow. You heard it here first. He's liking running more than
rowing. So as we've heard, you trained for Rio, for
Tokyo, Paris trials, share with us something that you have
in you that obviously allows you to stay incredibly motivated
(07:05):
in intense training cycles.
Alex Karwoski (07:08):
That's very kind of you. I think we should probably
clarify. There's a fine line between being courageous and going
for the games, and being stubborn, and then being stupid.
And I think I very much ventured into the more
stubborn, stupid part as I kept going. Which to your
point, there is some motivation there for sure. But I
(07:29):
found especially with, again, finding more enjoyment in the running,
is that, the dedication required to do anything over and
over again, especially when it is a repetitive motion. Especially
when you know, okay, the training plan, " Oh, I might
get one or two different workouts this week from last
week, but primarily my block is staying the same." You
(07:53):
need more than motivation. And of course, having people that
you work out with, having your training partners. They can
push you, but at the same time, I think they
hold you accountable in a way that sometimes you can't
do by yourself. And so for me, it's always been
about less motivation, more dedication and discipline as far as
(08:18):
not letting the other people that you're training with down.
And even with running, I've found, I knew I could
rope some of these know doofuses that I work out
with. Not Peloton employees, not my fellow Peloton instructors. I'm
so sorry. Guys that I rode with years and years
ago. I just started sending out the group text saying, "
I have this coming up and you should join me."
(08:40):
And slowly but surely there's been this, " Okay, we're going
to do this work out together." And there have been
a number of mornings where I've just not wanted to
show up, but since I started it, I feel like
I have to at this point. So it's a good commitment.
Becs Gentry (08:55):
You are very committed for sure. From my perspective as
a colleague, a friend, and somebody who has seen the
change from rowing to running, not that... This sounds like
he's leaving rowing behind, he's not.
Alex Karwoski (09:11):
I'd be okay with... No. Rowing is a great compliment. I will
say my rowing training helped, the foundational.
Becs Gentry (09:17):
No impact. Yeah, no impact. 86% of the muscles in
the body. He trained me to be a rowing instructor. I'm just- (inaudible)
Alex Karwoski (09:23):
It's a misquoted study. I'm in talks with the professor
at Kansas State University. We're going to get it sorted.
That was in a biking test. It's okay, sorry. Yes, rowing
does work a lot of muscles, but...
Becs Gentry (09:33):
It does. But your, I'd say, discipline for getting the training
done is huge. And I see you and I have
seen you, whether it was training for the trials or
now for the TCS, New York City Marathon. You fit
(09:57):
it in, you get it done, whether it's 5
in the morning, 6
PM at night, and you adapt on the fly. Which
I think is a huge part of today's society of
being stuck in our ways when it comes to, I
have a training plan, I must do this in order
to succeed. But I know there's been a morning where
(10:20):
you were going to do a certain workout. I saw
you later on and I was like, " Oh, how was
that disgusting workout that I didn't join you for because
it was too gross?" And you were like, " Oh, I just went
and did an hour on the erg instead because I
wasn't... I was like, " Oh, I don't know which one sounds
more horrible." But you adapted on the fly and you
still got a great cardio workout in. So where does
(10:42):
that principle come from in your brain, to not just
be like, " I'm just going to snooze my alarm and
roll over?"
Alex Karwoski (10:52):
That's good. You make it sound like I just, no
matter what hour of the day it is, I'm willing
to work out. Which is kind of true, but I
think part of it-
Becs Gentry (11:04):
Check Peloton schedule. It's true.
Alex Karwoski (11:04):
I think part of it is the enjoyment of, this might sound dark, but the
suffering of it. And it's something we talked about on
the team going to multiple world championships and doing all
this. And yes, you get to compete and see where
(11:24):
you stack up, but we calculated it out one year
and it was just horribly depressing. It was, we ended
up racing for less than 0. 06% of our entire
training mileage and time and all of that. And we
didn't calculate it after that year because we said, that's
just silly. We're doing 99.94 of this for 0. 06. And
(11:49):
we had to find a way in our minds to
rephrase that a little bit. And so what we started
saying was, " It doesn't have to be fun to be
fun," And enjoying the suffering. Again, there is real suffering,
there is horrible things going on and all that. But
when it comes to working out, getting in the miles,
getting in the workouts, whatever it is, that sometimes the
(12:11):
worse it is, the more you can enjoy it, especially
as you get deeper into it because you keep choosing
to do it. And again, it's not something that when
I talk to some guy still in college rowing or
high school kids that want to row in college, I
don't say to them, " Well, you have to suffer more."
That's not really the pick me up they're looking for.
(12:33):
But I do say, " Remember, the training is about 90
plus percent of it." And so what you want to
be able to get to is the point where you're
training not so much for the racing, but you're training
to get the training done so that you can race.
As opposed to thinking, " Oh, well, if I get through
this, I can then go to the race." It's no, no, no, no. You have
(12:57):
to be at the race, actually ready to race. So yeah...
Becs Gentry (13:04):
I love that. I really do love that because I
think if any of you run with me, I say
a lot of the time that the race day is
the cherry on top of the sprinkles on top of the layered,
layered, layered, layered cake. And we do not give ourselves
enough grace when it comes to getting to, or not
(13:25):
getting to the start line. Because what was it? 99 point...
Alex Karwoski (13:30):
It's just a lot.
Becs Gentry (13:32):
Something crazy is done by the time that race day
comes. And all we ever see on, and I'm not
blaming social here, but that's our outlet, is the sadness
of people not making it on race day. And it's
such a teeny tiny percentage when we should be being like, "
Hey, well done me for those months and weeks and
(13:55):
days and hours of suffering."
Alex Karwoski (13:58):
And we live in a digital world, and yet so
often we think about things analog and as far as
I either raced or I didn't, or I either won
or I didn't. And again, yes, we have a saying amongst
some of the rowing crowd, and I won't say the
event, but when you go to this world event where
(14:20):
there are international athletes competing, and it's usually in a
major city, and it happens once every four years. Amongst
the US men that for London, Rio, Tokyo for three
years, so it ended up being 16 years between medals.
We talked about how you went to the games and
you either won, you lost or you came in forth.
(14:42):
And if you win, great. If you lose, no one
cares. And if you come in forth, no one cares
except for you. And what you're saying as far as,
we don't give ourselves any grace in terms of, " Oh,
you did get to a really high level." And that's
not me patting myself on the back because again, I
(15:03):
got forth and no one cares. And I mean that
in the nicest way possible. The best interaction I had
post games was two or three years after and I was
getting my haircut, and I was wearing some USA shirt
and the hairdresser said, " Oh, did you go compete?" And
I said, " Oh, I did." And she goes, " How'd you
(15:23):
do?" And I said, " Oh, we got fourth." And she said, "
Well, what sucks?" And I looked at her and again, it
was in the mirror and she had cut the half
side and the other side still had to go. And I was like, " Yeah,
it did suck. It did." And she goes, " No, it's
still cool you went, but it sucks." I was like, "
Yes, it does." But again, in that moment I was like, "
(15:44):
Oh, she doesn't care." To her it was, " Did you
win a medal? Did you not?" " Oh, you got fourth.
Well, that sucks." And she wasn't saying it to be
mean, but it made me realize that again, you do
have to take things for what they are. And in
the moment, very rarely, I think it's Andy Bernard in
The Office where he says, " I wish there was a
way to recognize the good old days while you're in
(16:05):
them, but then obviously they're not the good old days."
And so often with sports and competition and athletics, we
think about getting there. And then once we're there, then
it'll be fun. And I just haven't found that to
be the case. Getting there is the fun. And obviously
when you do well and when you win, yes it
can get better, but I don't know, that enjoyment period
(16:28):
and giving yourself that opportunity to enjoy the digital inputs
is part of it.
Becs Gentry (16:34):
Are you enjoying training for a marathon?
Alex Karwoski (16:37):
I am very much enjoying it. I anticipate probably around
mile 21 or 22 that it will have a sucking moment. And
that's probably not the appropriate terminology in terms of running, but-
Becs Gentry (16:48):
Hit the wall.
Alex Karwoski (16:48):
Okay, there we go. In rowing, that would be very
bad and you don't want to hit walls or bridges
or anything like that. But at the same time, it's
been been very fun figuring out how to translate the
rowing work counts to running work counts. And I know
rowing numbers and I can stare at the screen and say, "
(17:11):
Oh, I know my stroke rate. I know my output."
When I look at my watch sometimes and I'm running,
I'm like, " Oh, it's still gathering satellites. Whoops." And I
just keep running. So there's a nice learning curve there
that it's-
Becs Gentry (17:23):
That's New York running for you.
Alex Karwoski (17:25):
Which is great.
Becs Gentry (17:26):
GPS is ready when you get home, you're like, " Thanks. That's
great." Okay, so you're enjoying it. You're in the process,
you're finding the fun, but you're suffering. You are ready
to hit the wall at 21, 22. I'm going to go 18.
Alex Karwoski (17:46):
All right, fair.
Becs Gentry (17:46):
18 to 24th. You don't have to share, but do you
have any goals for your 26.2? You can tell me
to go away as well (inaudible) .
Alex Karwoski (18:01):
No, no. For all the years I was in the
training center, we used to scoff at all the guys,
I would say, " Oh yeah." And you tell your family like, " Oh
yeah, I'm training for the international sporting event that takes
place once every four years, whatever." We always pooh- poohed
those guys. And we said, " That's not realistic. You're not
(18:22):
training for that. You're training to make the team the
next summer." And if you're good enough to make the
team that next summer, then you keep training and then
you make the team the next summer. And obviously once
every four years the senior team becomes the so on and so forth.
So I was one of those guys that would pooh-
pooh, the ones that said, " Oh, I'm training for the
games." I realized it didn't make a difference. No one
(18:45):
cared. Your family wants to hear what you're doing. You
should say, " Oh yes, we're two years out, we're one
year out, we're a 100 days out," All that. So
all of that long- winded way of saying, yes, I have
a goal and this is going to be mean. I
know Becs' PR, I want to go one second faster,
only because I know how fast it is. It is
a goal. If I can go-
Becs Gentry (19:05):
Wait, which PR? My New York PR?
Alex Karwoski (19:08):
Yeah.
Becs Gentry (19:09):
Oh, my trials PR.
Alex Karwoski (19:12):
I want to go 236, 26.
Becs Gentry (19:18):
Ooh, baby.
Alex Karwoski (19:18):
558, is that correct?
Becs Gentry (19:23):
237, 01 was New York, so you can do 237
bang on.
Alex Karwoski (19:28):
Okay.
Becs Gentry (19:28):
If you want.
Alex Karwoski (19:30):
Okay, good.
Becs Gentry (19:30):
And you'll still beat me.
Alex Karwoski (19:30):
And gold just got easier. Gold just got easier.
Becs Gentry (19:32):
Yeah, right. Oh, I should have just pushed him, right?
I should have left him there.
Alex Karwoski (19:37):
Again, I have a number that I'll be content with,
but I have a number that I'll be satisfied with.
And that's honestly from you, watching you run. Going on
some of these runs with her where she's like, " Yeah,
it's a 14." I'm be like, " Okay." And then we
get nine in and we're at 642 and I'm like, "
Well, okay." All right. I guess that's... So yeah, it's your fault.
Becs Gentry (19:59):
Sorry.
Alex Karwoski (20:00):
And I fully anticipate not beating it, for the record.
Becs Gentry (20:05):
I have other thoughts. I think you're going to whoop
it. I think you're going to be closer to my trials time.
Alex Karwoski (20:09):
I don't think so.
Becs Gentry (20:09):
Make that a 232 bang on buddy. Come on. You got this.
Alex Karwoski (20:12):
No, that's too much.
Becs Gentry (20:13):
Oh, for New York. That could be tough.
Alex Karwoski (20:17):
Yes.
Becs Gentry (20:17):
Okay, so everyone else listening may well be training for
the TCS New York City Marathon as well. Where is
your favorite place in New York to practice for the
undulating terrain of this beautiful route?
Alex Karwoski (20:34):
Certainly Central Park. I mean, it's obviously the most accessible.
It's the closest. But also the Hill, Harlem Hill is
good. I've done one six mile back up and over.
That was a rowing workout. And so that got me
(20:55):
familiar with, " Okay, here's the start. Here's the peak and
that," So...
Becs Gentry (20:59):
In my brain, I'm that slow today that I was like, "
How do you get hills in rowing?"
Alex Karwoski (21:05):
No, it was a rowing workout too. Yeah, if you, the distances.
Becs Gentry (21:10):
The distance, yeah. Yes. Yeah, okay. See, I'm personally, I prefer Harlem
Hill over the Three Sisters. I find the Three Sisters
worse. Anyone else with me on that? Yeah, right.
Alex Karwoski (21:21):
The Three Sisters keep going. Yeah.
Becs Gentry (21:23):
Yeah.
Alex Karwoski (21:24):
Harlem Hill starts, ends, and then you get to enjoy.
Becs Gentry (21:27):
It's got the one bend in it that you're like, "
Come on, how do I forget this every time?"
Alex Karwoski (21:31):
The suffering is squished.
Becs Gentry (21:33):
But the three sisters, I'm like, " Did someone add some
pavement to this in between when I was last here?"
It's wild. Wild. Okay, well, we will see in November
what you do. I'm very excited for that. I want
to talk about though, your rowing career and the inspiration
behind that as well, because that's what you are known.
(21:53):
We may be here on a running podcast, but you
are known as the rower here. What brought you to
rowing in the first place?
Alex Karwoski (22:04):
So I started off running. Well, I started off playing soccer.
Becs Gentry (22:07):
Just completely flattened that question, didn't you?
Alex Karwoski (22:10):
No, but rowing is the more, yeah, I've done more rowing.
Becs Gentry (22:13):
Actually, I started running.
Alex Karwoski (22:15):
I say that as... Started playing soccer, then my brother
didn't make the sixth grade travel soccer team, and in
a huff he picked up running. And so naturally being
the strong, independent, younger brother that I was, I did
the exact same thing and started running with him. And
then went to high school and there was not a
(22:37):
spring track team, but there was fall cross- country. Then
we played basketball in the winter, and then there was
a rowing team. And so picked up rowing as a, "
Oh, this is like running, but I just get to
sit down. So this is great." It was not at
all like running. It was again, in some ways more
fun, in some ways less fun. But then realized, went
to my freshman year of college for cross- country preseason.
(22:59):
I was both cross- country and basketball captain in high
school. I was not rowing captain.
Becs Gentry (23:03):
I did not know that.
Alex Karwoski (23:04):
And so maybe that... Yeah, some of that. Again, I
wasn't good at either of those. But then went to cross-
country preseason for my freshman year, and there were only four
other freshmen on the team. I liked one of them,
two of them I was indifferent to, and one I
didn't care for. And so I said, " You know what? I'm
(23:26):
going to swap over to rowing."
Becs Gentry (23:28):
All that one guy's fault.
Alex Karwoski (23:30):
Yeah, I mean maybe. Also, again, was not that good.
And as a, I said this earlier, but as a
gangly white kid from New Hampshire, there are a lot
fewer people who row in the world than run. And
so my avenue, not so much basketball, not so much
running. It was going to be in the rowing. So
then went over to the rowing team, grew another two
(23:50):
and a half inches, which was helpful, and then kept
rowing, and was dumb enough to keep rowing after college.
Becs Gentry (23:56):
Wow. And rowing has taken you around the world. It's taken you to some incredible summer events.
Alex Karwoski (24:04):
Yes.
Becs Gentry (24:04):
And now it has brought you to Peloton and we
are very grateful and lucky to have you. When it
comes to your classes, honestly, I think people who take
rowing classes are the luckiest and most unlucky on the
Peloton platform because you have you, Wilps and me as instructors.
Alex Karwoski (24:29):
It's the only- (inaudible) .
Becs Gentry (24:30):
Three giant nerds.
Alex Karwoski (24:31):
Three training specialists in one, yeah.
Becs Gentry (24:33):
Three absolute fitness nerds.
Alex Karwoski (24:36):
It is a number sport though, so I mean as
every sport, but, yeah.
Becs Gentry (24:40):
So we're all drawn. But you are our training specialist
on rowing. For those of you who don't know what
that means, that is the most knowledgeable of instructors, becomes
a training specialist, and helps impart their knowledge and experience
to the rest of the team and helps us produce
the top- level content that we hope we do produce.
Alex Karwoski (24:59):
It's like the top dork. It's the dork. Yeah. Sorry.
Becs Gentry (25:03):
So clearly me, Alex, and Wilps. But when it comes to
sharing your knowledge about rowing, how do you find the balance
between the competitive experience rower and being the Peloton instructor?
Alex Karwoski (25:23):
In my very first interview, I guess I should say,
so I got a LinkedIn message from our talent team, and I thought
it was a scam. I was with my now wife
at the time, fiancee, and I said, " Oh, look at
this. This has to be a scam." And she said, "
Well, even if it is just respond, worst case, it's
(25:43):
a scam." Four months later, it was not a scam.
It was very much a job opportunity and it was
great. And I'm forever grateful for that opportunity. In my
very first interview after what I thought was a scam,
I said to Jen, I said, " Rowing is not fun.
You have to believe me when I say that rowing
is not fun. Erging on the machine can be very
(26:04):
fun, but when... You have to take my word for it,
when you're on the water, and especially after you've trained
with these people and you've done seat racing and you've
lined up in pairs and straight fours, and then gotten
in the eights, and you're doing back and forth." " And
it's months and months and you go through eight and
a half months of training. And then you go into
two and a half months of selection, and then you
(26:24):
go into the week of meeting with the coaches and
writing down different guys' names and lineups, and then they
tally the votes and then they disregard the votes. And
then you get more into the politics of, well, he
didn't lose a seat race in the four, but... So
when you get into all of that, rowing is not fun."
So I said that to them and they all looked
at me and they were like, " Do you want this
job? Do you want to do this?" And I was like, "
(26:48):
Oh, I'm so sorry. Peloton's great. Rowing can totally be fun.
I'm sorry about that." But actually I don't think that
what we're doing at Peloton is actually teaching people how
to row. At least in my mind, that's not what
I'm trying to do. What I'm trying to do is
introduce the motion of rowing on a stationary machine. That
(27:08):
being said, open invite. If anyone wants to go up
to the Columbia boathouse, my ID still works. So we
can get in, we can row. But the difficulty with
teaching someone how to row is there's so many more
hurdles that you have to go through. And I say
that both, not only as a predominantly Ivy League sport,
(27:28):
where intro level boats cost tens of thousands of dollars
and the equipment needed and the boathouse and then the
waterways and all that. So it's difficult and sometimes difficult
things can be really fun. In the case of rowing,
I think sometimes it makes it really not fun. And so
for me, the competitive side of, " Oh, let's row and
(27:50):
let's race each other." I've tried to push that aside
and instead I've tried to make it more about the,
when you're on this machine, when you're on the Peloton
platform, yes, there's a leaderboard. And don't get me wrong,
I'm checking that thing constantly. Even while we're in class
because I want to see where people are. And because
you see more and more of the same people showing
(28:10):
up and you see who they were around. And so
I try to think of it less of, you're competing
against these people and more of those are your teammates
that you're actually getting to row with. And so that's
how I've tried to shift from the rowing is not
fun. Competing on the water is so difficult and all
that to, " Oh, rowing can be fun. And being on
the machine is how we do that."
Becs Gentry (28:32):
Nice, okay. So it's a new version of training people
to row. Training people to enjoy the motion of rowing
on a stationary machine.
Alex Karwoski (28:42):
It's very difficult to jump into a boat having never
sat down on a machine and you have this oar,
and you put it in the oar lock and the
seat moves and you're putting your feet into these shoes.
And maybe the person before you was wearing socks, maybe
not. You don't know, right? And as you're doing all
that, if you haven't sat on the erg at least
once, and almost every rowing program starts with a learn
(29:04):
to row on land, I feel like Peloton is the
world's greatest learn to row program. And it's so much
more accessible. It's so much more fun. Don't take my
word for it, take Becs, take all the other instructors.
I tell people all the time, " I'm probably the least
fun on the machine." But again, I think about this
rowing funnel and instead of trying to get people to
(29:24):
come down to the bottom of the funnel and say, "
That's the Peloton part," I just want to make the
funnel bigger and bring more people in to enjoy it.
Becs Gentry (29:35):
Now you've all got to take a (inaudible) class
just because of that. Okay, I have two more questions for you. One
of them is a personal question that I need to
know the answer to. When you run the TCS New
York City Marathon, are you going to be wearing shorts
as short as the ones you wear on the row?
Alex Karwoski (30:00):
That's the personal question. All right. That's not that personal.
Becs Gentry (30:02):
I want to don't know if I'm going to show
up to watch.
Alex Karwoski (30:05):
I mean, if it were up to me, I would
not wear shorts while I'm rowing because rowing attire, you
have a lot of moving parts-
Becs Gentry (30:13):
I'm like, naked rowing.
Alex Karwoski (30:13):
... on the thing where skin tights up. You don't want
anything to get... I'll be wearing shorts. There'll be one
inch in seams. There'll be the little pieces of fabric,
Becs Gentry (30:24):
He's a tall guy.
Alex Karwoski (30:24):
I'll also be wearing tights.
Becs Gentry (30:24):
You going to run in tights?
Alex Karwoski (30:26):
No, not tights. I mean, sorry. I call tights the
little things that-
Becs Gentry (30:29):
Oh, like cycling shorts.
Alex Karwoski (30:30):
Spandex.
Becs Gentry (30:31):
Yes. Okay, great.
Alex Karwoski (30:33):
Yeah.
Becs Gentry (30:33):
Good.
All right. I'll stick around.
Alex Karwoski (30:33):
Degrees of freedom.
Becs Gentry (30:34):
I'll stick around.
Alex Karwoski (30:36):
Maybe not at mile 18. Maybe you don't want to be there.
Becs Gentry (30:38):
Okay. And my last question, I would be able to
stay and talk to you for hours about this. I
think there's so much more to Alex rowing, beautiful, wonderful,
very talented wife. You have an MBA. You did officially
(31:02):
go to Columbia Business School. He wasn't lying. He did
do that. Very, very talented.
Alex Karwoski (31:08):
It's business school. We weren't curing cancer, but yes it was.
Becs Gentry (31:11):
Hey.
Alex Karwoski (31:12):
I just want to clarify.
Becs Gentry (31:13):
Some people say money makes the world go round. But
my final question will be, when you get that medal
around your neck right there by Tavern On The Green,
where we just ran past.
Alex Karwoski (31:27):
A lot can happen. Okay. I appreciate the confidence.
Becs Gentry (31:30):
You will, visualize it. What is going to be the
first thing Alex eats? I'm a food person. What can
I say?
Alex Karwoski (31:38):
I'm curious how the MBA tied in. I feel like
there's something that's, I'll have to run unless I'm like
unit economics on what's the most price- efficient post race
meal. (inaudible) First thing I'll eat after.
Becs Gentry (31:52):
Yeah.
Alex Karwoski (31:55):
I just asked you as we were coming in, I
need to pick your brain about fueling for the marathon.
So far the only thing I've found that I've really
enjoyed have been Jelly Belly sport beans, which Matt Wilpers
claims I shouldn't be using.
Becs Gentry (32:09):
After the race, as your reward?
Alex Karwoski (32:11):
Well, because they're delicious and I have a whole candy
diatribe. There's sweets and savories and there's car candy and
there's great workout candy. There's post workout candy.
Becs Gentry (32:24):
He's a candy guy, everyone.
Alex Karwoski (32:26):
Big sweets. Hence, why I try to just work out
a lot so I can counter that. No, but...
Becs Gentry (32:33):
This is what you did at Columbia.
Alex Karwoski (32:36):
I did do a project on some candy pricing.
Becs Gentry (32:40):
Wow.
Alex Karwoski (32:40):
But no, okay, first thing I'll eat after, probably go
to favorite bagel spot down near where we live.
Becs Gentry (32:50):
Amazing. It will be-
Alex Karwoski (32:51):
Everything bagel.
Becs Gentry (32:51):
... very well deserved because you are going to get to
that finish line. There is no doubt about it. You
are an incredibly dedicated human to everything you do. And
if nothing else, I can tell you, the TCS New
York City Marathon is the best marathon in the world
and the crowd will get you through. And if the
(33:12):
crowd happened to fluctuate in that moment, there will be
another runner who will get you through. So that finish
line is yours for the grabbing and I am so
excited to cheer you on and watch you over the
next few months try and beat my goal.
Alex Karwoski (33:33):
I was going to say, I want to put a little asterisk there and say I'm especially
flattered that you're still rooting for me, even though I
put it out there publicly that I'm trying to beat
you. Again, it's not your PR. When you want to
beat my rowing PR erg is, you let me know
and we'll start training a bit. Yeah.
Becs Gentry (33:53):
Yeah, I don't think that, you're in no fear of
that happening at all. I'm happy to be the fun
rowing instructor-
Alex Karwoski (33:59):
I will still root for you.
Becs Gentry (33:59):
... who rows mediocrely. Well, is that a word? I
don't know. We made it up. Alex, thank you so
much for joining us today on Set the Pace. It
is a pleasure to talk to you, learn from you,
work with you, and run with you. Team, remember, if
you like this episode, please go ahead, subscribe, rate, or
(34:19):
leave us a comment on the show, on whatever platform
you listen to. This not only helps us, but it
helps others find out about the show. Thank you so
much for joining us.
Alex Karwoski (34:29):
Thank you.
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(00:23):
step of the way. All- access membership separate. Learn more
about Peloton Tread at onepeloton. com/ running. Peloton, the official
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New York. Today, we're reminded of the power of community
(00:44):
and the power of coming together. Athletes, on your mark.
The first woman to finish for the second straight year
here in the New York City Marathon is Miki Gorman, a smiling
Miki Gorman. And why not? 2
Look at the emotion of Shalane Flanagan as she
(01:05):
comes to the line. Pointing to his chest, pointed to
the USA he so proudly wears across his chest. A
great day for Matt Kaplusky.
Becs Gentry (01:19):
Hello, hello. All right, everybody. Welcome to Set the Pace
presented by Peloton. I'm Becs Gentry and I'm holding down
the fort today whilst my wonderful and usual co- host
Rob Simmelkjaer, CEO of New York Roadrunners. He's a little
under the weather. He's training for Berlin Marathon, so we
want to send him lots of love and well wishes.
(01:43):
So I've told Rob to go rest because I've totally
got this. I've totally got this, right? So forgive me
if I sound a little out of breath, but we
have just got back from a lovely run. Okay, we
are at the New York Roadrunners Run Center, featuring the
New Balance run Hub, directly after our New Balance 5th
(02:03):
Avenue Mile, warm- up run, presented by Peloton today. So
many words and titles there. Oh my goodness. But we
got it. We got it in. I'm very honored to
have our guest sitting next to me here. He is
a friend, a colleague, a massive inspiration, the fabulous Alex
(02:25):
Karwoski. So we've just run with these wonderful people here
in front of us ahead of New Balance Fifth Av
Mile happening on Sunday, and Alex has agreed to hang
out with us a little longer today so I can
ask him a few questions. For those of you who
(02:45):
don't know him, perhaps check him out on Peloton first
and foremost. But he is an absolute marvel. He is
not just a Peloton instructor, a fabulous Peloton rowing instructor.
He is a multifaceted athlete. He was competed in Rio.
He was an alternate in Tokyo. And now, like many
(03:09):
of you, Alex is training for his first marathon, the
2024 TCS New York City Marathon. I got to say I
am smugly happy about this.
Alex Karwoski (03:26):
I'm very excited. I'm sorry, I didn't know when I'm
supposed to jump in, but that's-
Becs Gentry (03:28):
Anytime.
Alex Karwoski (03:28):
... too much of an intro. Just for the record,
I'm sitting next to you. I'm not a runner. All
of these folks just ran with me. They saw my
form, so it's going to be a marathon. I'm not
sure it's going to be a fast one, but it's
going to be a marathon.
Becs Gentry (03:41):
I know he's lying. And you all know he's lying,
because as you said, you just ran with him. Beautiful
running form. And we're all runners. We're all runners. We
just all move at different paces, right? Yeah, forward is pace.
Alex Karwoski (03:54):
I say that with rowing. It is right. There is no wrong form in
rowing. It's just your form. No one gets injured, but
there are about, as I can tell, 34 different ways
to row correctly, so you're good.
Becs Gentry (04:05):
I'm the 35th when it comes to my rowing classes.
Alex Karwoski (04:08):
It's not true.
Becs Gentry (04:11):
Okay, Alex, there are so many things I want to
know, and I'm sure there are so many things our
listeners want to know about you. I'm sure a lot
of our listeners have taken class with you. I'm sure
they all follow you @ AlexPeloton on Instagram. There's not enough
dog content, by the way.
Alex Karwoski (04:27):
I try to post once a month. Sometimes it's once
a quarter.
Becs Gentry (04:32):
He rivals Dennis Morton. Alex has a beautiful golden retriever
as well. We are golden retriever parents up here, proud.
Alex Karwoski (04:40):
Not great running partners as it turns out.
Becs Gentry (04:42):
No.
Alex Karwoski (04:42):
Not.
Becs Gentry (04:43):
No. Maurice is on the DIET right now. Summer got him
bad. Anyway, talking about rowing and transitioning to running, because
I and everybody want to know how you have altered
your training as you are preparing to run 26.2, in
(05:07):
comparison to training for the games.
Alex Karwoski (05:13):
The games. I will say, rowing inherently it's a team
sport, for sure. I know there is the single skull,
so you can do it by yourself, but it requires
a lot of people, a lot of getting to the
boathouse, getting the oars down, having the right equipment. Oh,
(05:36):
this wheel on the seat isn't doing what you want
it to do, so let's replace that. There's just a
lot of steps. And obviously when you streamline that, sure
it gets going. But with running, what I've really enjoyed
over the last three and a half months or so,
has just been, its wonderful simplicity to it. And I
know I'm not downplaying it at all. It's still such
(05:56):
a complicated, trying to figure out how to just get
that 1% faster. But being able to put on my
pair of shorts, put on my tank top shirt, whatever
it is, and I now have, thanks to Becs, I've
ordered more pairs of running shoes that I'm going to
race in. And not just train in, but race in
so my body gets familiar with that. It's just simple.
And in that simplicity I've found, and this might be
(06:19):
like a knock on rowing, but slightly more enjoyment out
of it. And that could also be because with rowing,
I was always very focused on okay, beating... I had
my friends, I had my teammates, but most of them
were ports and I'm a starboard. With running we're all
just trying to finish and doing that. So I found more
enjoyment in the running.
Becs Gentry (06:41):
Wow. Wow. You heard it here first. He's liking running more than
rowing. So as we've heard, you trained for Rio, for
Tokyo, Paris trials, share with us something that you have
in you that obviously allows you to stay incredibly motivated
(07:05):
in intense training cycles.
Alex Karwoski (07:08):
That's very kind of you. I think we should probably
clarify. There's a fine line between being courageous and going
for the games, and being stubborn, and then being stupid.
And I think I very much ventured into the more
stubborn, stupid part as I kept going. Which to your
point, there is some motivation there for sure. But I
(07:29):
found especially with, again, finding more enjoyment in the running,
is that, the dedication required to do anything over and
over again, especially when it is a repetitive motion. Especially
when you know, okay, the training plan, " Oh, I might
get one or two different workouts this week from last
week, but primarily my block is staying the same." You
(07:53):
need more than motivation. And of course, having people that
you work out with, having your training partners. They can
push you, but at the same time, I think they
hold you accountable in a way that sometimes you can't
do by yourself. And so for me, it's always been
about less motivation, more dedication and discipline as far as
(08:18):
not letting the other people that you're training with down.
And even with running, I've found, I knew I could
rope some of these know doofuses that I work out
with. Not Peloton employees, not my fellow Peloton instructors. I'm
so sorry. Guys that I rode with years and years
ago. I just started sending out the group text saying, "
I have this coming up and you should join me."
(08:40):
And slowly but surely there's been this, " Okay, we're going
to do this work out together." And there have been
a number of mornings where I've just not wanted to
show up, but since I started it, I feel like
I have to at this point. So it's a good commitment.
Becs Gentry (08:55):
You are very committed for sure. From my perspective as
a colleague, a friend, and somebody who has seen the
change from rowing to running, not that... This sounds like
he's leaving rowing behind, he's not.
Alex Karwoski (09:11):
I'd be okay with... No. Rowing is a great compliment. I will
say my rowing training helped, the foundational.
Becs Gentry (09:17):
No impact. Yeah, no impact. 86% of the muscles in
the body. He trained me to be a rowing instructor. I'm just- (inaudible)
Alex Karwoski (09:23):
It's a misquoted study. I'm in talks with the professor
at Kansas State University. We're going to get it sorted.
That was in a biking test. It's okay, sorry. Yes, rowing
does work a lot of muscles, but...
Becs Gentry (09:33):
It does. But your, I'd say, discipline for getting the training
done is huge. And I see you and I have
seen you, whether it was training for the trials or
now for the TCS, New York City Marathon. You fit
(09:57):
it in, you get it done, whether it's 5
in the morning, 6
PM at night, and you adapt on the fly. Which
I think is a huge part of today's society of
being stuck in our ways when it comes to, I
have a training plan, I must do this in order
to succeed. But I know there's been a morning where
(10:20):
you were going to do a certain workout. I saw
you later on and I was like, " Oh, how was
that disgusting workout that I didn't join you for because
it was too gross?" And you were like, " Oh, I just went
and did an hour on the erg instead because I
wasn't... I was like, " Oh, I don't know which one sounds
more horrible." But you adapted on the fly and you
still got a great cardio workout in. So where does
(10:42):
that principle come from in your brain, to not just
be like, " I'm just going to snooze my alarm and
roll over?"
Alex Karwoski (10:52):
That's good. You make it sound like I just, no
matter what hour of the day it is, I'm willing
to work out. Which is kind of true, but I
think part of it-
Becs Gentry (11:04):
Check Peloton schedule. It's true.
Alex Karwoski (11:04):
I think part of it is the enjoyment of, this might sound dark, but the
suffering of it. And it's something we talked about on
the team going to multiple world championships and doing all
this. And yes, you get to compete and see where
(11:24):
you stack up, but we calculated it out one year
and it was just horribly depressing. It was, we ended
up racing for less than 0. 06% of our entire
training mileage and time and all of that. And we
didn't calculate it after that year because we said, that's
just silly. We're doing 99.94 of this for 0. 06. And
(11:49):
we had to find a way in our minds to
rephrase that a little bit. And so what we started
saying was, " It doesn't have to be fun to be
fun," And enjoying the suffering. Again, there is real suffering,
there is horrible things going on and all that. But
when it comes to working out, getting in the miles,
getting in the workouts, whatever it is, that sometimes the
(12:11):
worse it is, the more you can enjoy it, especially
as you get deeper into it because you keep choosing
to do it. And again, it's not something that when
I talk to some guy still in college rowing or
high school kids that want to row in college, I
don't say to them, " Well, you have to suffer more."
That's not really the pick me up they're looking for.
(12:33):
But I do say, " Remember, the training is about 90
plus percent of it." And so what you want to
be able to get to is the point where you're
training not so much for the racing, but you're training
to get the training done so that you can race.
As opposed to thinking, " Oh, well, if I get through
this, I can then go to the race." It's no, no, no, no. You have
(12:57):
to be at the race, actually ready to race. So yeah...
Becs Gentry (13:04):
I love that. I really do love that because I
think if any of you run with me, I say
a lot of the time that the race day is
the cherry on top of the sprinkles on top of the layered,
layered, layered, layered cake. And we do not give ourselves
enough grace when it comes to getting to, or not
(13:25):
getting to the start line. Because what was it? 99 point...
Alex Karwoski (13:30):
It's just a lot.
Becs Gentry (13:32):
Something crazy is done by the time that race day
comes. And all we ever see on, and I'm not
blaming social here, but that's our outlet, is the sadness
of people not making it on race day. And it's
such a teeny tiny percentage when we should be being like, "
Hey, well done me for those months and weeks and
(13:55):
days and hours of suffering."
Alex Karwoski (13:58):
And we live in a digital world, and yet so
often we think about things analog and as far as
I either raced or I didn't, or I either won
or I didn't. And again, yes, we have a saying amongst
some of the rowing crowd, and I won't say the
event, but when you go to this world event where
(14:20):
there are international athletes competing, and it's usually in a
major city, and it happens once every four years. Amongst
the US men that for London, Rio, Tokyo for three
years, so it ended up being 16 years between medals.
We talked about how you went to the games and
you either won, you lost or you came in forth.
(14:42):
And if you win, great. If you lose, no one
cares. And if you come in forth, no one cares
except for you. And what you're saying as far as,
we don't give ourselves any grace in terms of, " Oh,
you did get to a really high level." And that's
not me patting myself on the back because again, I
(15:03):
got forth and no one cares. And I mean that
in the nicest way possible. The best interaction I had
post games was two or three years after and I was
getting my haircut, and I was wearing some USA shirt
and the hairdresser said, " Oh, did you go compete?" And
I said, " Oh, I did." And she goes, " How'd you
(15:23):
do?" And I said, " Oh, we got fourth." And she said, "
Well, what sucks?" And I looked at her and again, it
was in the mirror and she had cut the half
side and the other side still had to go. And I was like, " Yeah,
it did suck. It did." And she goes, " No, it's
still cool you went, but it sucks." I was like, "
Yes, it does." But again, in that moment I was like, "
(15:44):
Oh, she doesn't care." To her it was, " Did you
win a medal? Did you not?" " Oh, you got fourth.
Well, that sucks." And she wasn't saying it to be
mean, but it made me realize that again, you do
have to take things for what they are. And in
the moment, very rarely, I think it's Andy Bernard in
The Office where he says, " I wish there was a
way to recognize the good old days while you're in
(16:05):
them, but then obviously they're not the good old days."
And so often with sports and competition and athletics, we
think about getting there. And then once we're there, then
it'll be fun. And I just haven't found that to
be the case. Getting there is the fun. And obviously
when you do well and when you win, yes it
can get better, but I don't know, that enjoyment period
(16:28):
and giving yourself that opportunity to enjoy the digital inputs
is part of it.
Becs Gentry (16:34):
Are you enjoying training for a marathon?
Alex Karwoski (16:37):
I am very much enjoying it. I anticipate probably around
mile 21 or 22 that it will have a sucking moment. And
that's probably not the appropriate terminology in terms of running, but-
Becs Gentry (16:48):
Hit the wall.
Alex Karwoski (16:48):
Okay, there we go. In rowing, that would be very
bad and you don't want to hit walls or bridges
or anything like that. But at the same time, it's
been been very fun figuring out how to translate the
rowing work counts to running work counts. And I know
rowing numbers and I can stare at the screen and say, "
(17:11):
Oh, I know my stroke rate. I know my output."
When I look at my watch sometimes and I'm running,
I'm like, " Oh, it's still gathering satellites. Whoops." And I
just keep running. So there's a nice learning curve there
that it's-
Becs Gentry (17:23):
That's New York running for you.
Alex Karwoski (17:25):
Which is great.
Becs Gentry (17:26):
GPS is ready when you get home, you're like, " Thanks. That's
great." Okay, so you're enjoying it. You're in the process,
you're finding the fun, but you're suffering. You are ready
to hit the wall at 21, 22. I'm going to go 18.
Alex Karwoski (17:46):
All right, fair.
Becs Gentry (17:46):
18 to 24th. You don't have to share, but do you
have any goals for your 26.2? You can tell me
to go away as well (inaudible) .
Alex Karwoski (18:01):
No, no. For all the years I was in the
training center, we used to scoff at all the guys,
I would say, " Oh yeah." And you tell your family like, " Oh
yeah, I'm training for the international sporting event that takes
place once every four years, whatever." We always pooh- poohed
those guys. And we said, " That's not realistic. You're not
(18:22):
training for that. You're training to make the team the
next summer." And if you're good enough to make the
team that next summer, then you keep training and then
you make the team the next summer. And obviously once
every four years the senior team becomes the so on and so forth.
So I was one of those guys that would pooh-
pooh, the ones that said, " Oh, I'm training for the
games." I realized it didn't make a difference. No one
(18:45):
cared. Your family wants to hear what you're doing. You
should say, " Oh yes, we're two years out, we're one
year out, we're a 100 days out," All that. So
all of that long- winded way of saying, yes, I have
a goal and this is going to be mean. I
know Becs' PR, I want to go one second faster,
only because I know how fast it is. It is
a goal. If I can go-
Becs Gentry (19:05):
Wait, which PR? My New York PR?
Alex Karwoski (19:08):
Yeah.
Becs Gentry (19:09):
Oh, my trials PR.
Alex Karwoski (19:12):
I want to go 236, 26.
Becs Gentry (19:18):
Ooh, baby.
Alex Karwoski (19:18):
558, is that correct?
Becs Gentry (19:23):
237, 01 was New York, so you can do 237
bang on.
Alex Karwoski (19:28):
Okay.
Becs Gentry (19:28):
If you want.
Alex Karwoski (19:30):
Okay, good.
Becs Gentry (19:30):
And you'll still beat me.
Alex Karwoski (19:30):
And gold just got easier. Gold just got easier.
Becs Gentry (19:32):
Yeah, right. Oh, I should have just pushed him, right?
I should have left him there.
Alex Karwoski (19:37):
Again, I have a number that I'll be content with,
but I have a number that I'll be satisfied with.
And that's honestly from you, watching you run. Going on
some of these runs with her where she's like, " Yeah,
it's a 14." I'm be like, " Okay." And then we
get nine in and we're at 642 and I'm like, "
Well, okay." All right. I guess that's... So yeah, it's your fault.
Becs Gentry (19:59):
Sorry.
Alex Karwoski (20:00):
And I fully anticipate not beating it, for the record.
Becs Gentry (20:05):
I have other thoughts. I think you're going to whoop
it. I think you're going to be closer to my trials time.
Alex Karwoski (20:09):
I don't think so.
Becs Gentry (20:09):
Make that a 232 bang on buddy. Come on. You got this.
Alex Karwoski (20:12):
No, that's too much.
Becs Gentry (20:13):
Oh, for New York. That could be tough.
Alex Karwoski (20:17):
Yes.
Becs Gentry (20:17):
Okay, so everyone else listening may well be training for
the TCS New York City Marathon as well. Where is
your favorite place in New York to practice for the
undulating terrain of this beautiful route?
Alex Karwoski (20:34):
Certainly Central Park. I mean, it's obviously the most accessible.
It's the closest. But also the Hill, Harlem Hill is
good. I've done one six mile back up and over.
That was a rowing workout. And so that got me
(20:55):
familiar with, " Okay, here's the start. Here's the peak and
that," So...
Becs Gentry (20:59):
In my brain, I'm that slow today that I was like, "
How do you get hills in rowing?"
Alex Karwoski (21:05):
No, it was a rowing workout too. Yeah, if you, the distances.
Becs Gentry (21:10):
The distance, yeah. Yes. Yeah, okay. See, I'm personally, I prefer Harlem
Hill over the Three Sisters. I find the Three Sisters
worse. Anyone else with me on that? Yeah, right.
Alex Karwoski (21:21):
The Three Sisters keep going. Yeah.
Becs Gentry (21:23):
Yeah.
Alex Karwoski (21:24):
Harlem Hill starts, ends, and then you get to enjoy.
Becs Gentry (21:27):
It's got the one bend in it that you're like, "
Come on, how do I forget this every time?"
Alex Karwoski (21:31):
The suffering is squished.
Becs Gentry (21:33):
But the three sisters, I'm like, " Did someone add some
pavement to this in between when I was last here?"
It's wild. Wild. Okay, well, we will see in November
what you do. I'm very excited for that. I want
to talk about though, your rowing career and the inspiration
behind that as well, because that's what you are known.
(21:53):
We may be here on a running podcast, but you
are known as the rower here. What brought you to
rowing in the first place?
Alex Karwoski (22:04):
So I started off running. Well, I started off playing soccer.
Becs Gentry (22:07):
Just completely flattened that question, didn't you?
Alex Karwoski (22:10):
No, but rowing is the more, yeah, I've done more rowing.
Becs Gentry (22:13):
Actually, I started running.
Alex Karwoski (22:15):
I say that as... Started playing soccer, then my brother
didn't make the sixth grade travel soccer team, and in
a huff he picked up running. And so naturally being
the strong, independent, younger brother that I was, I did
the exact same thing and started running with him. And
then went to high school and there was not a
(22:37):
spring track team, but there was fall cross- country. Then
we played basketball in the winter, and then there was
a rowing team. And so picked up rowing as a, "
Oh, this is like running, but I just get to
sit down. So this is great." It was not at
all like running. It was again, in some ways more
fun, in some ways less fun. But then realized, went
to my freshman year of college for cross- country preseason.
(22:59):
I was both cross- country and basketball captain in high
school. I was not rowing captain.
Becs Gentry (23:03):
I did not know that.
Alex Karwoski (23:04):
And so maybe that... Yeah, some of that. Again, I
wasn't good at either of those. But then went to cross-
country preseason for my freshman year, and there were only four
other freshmen on the team. I liked one of them,
two of them I was indifferent to, and one I
didn't care for. And so I said, " You know what? I'm
(23:26):
going to swap over to rowing."
Becs Gentry (23:28):
All that one guy's fault.
Alex Karwoski (23:30):
Yeah, I mean maybe. Also, again, was not that good.
And as a, I said this earlier, but as a
gangly white kid from New Hampshire, there are a lot
fewer people who row in the world than run. And
so my avenue, not so much basketball, not so much
running. It was going to be in the rowing. So
then went over to the rowing team, grew another two
(23:50):
and a half inches, which was helpful, and then kept
rowing, and was dumb enough to keep rowing after college.
Becs Gentry (23:56):
Wow. And rowing has taken you around the world. It's taken you to some incredible summer events.
Alex Karwoski (24:04):
Yes.
Becs Gentry (24:04):
And now it has brought you to Peloton and we
are very grateful and lucky to have you. When it
comes to your classes, honestly, I think people who take
rowing classes are the luckiest and most unlucky on the
Peloton platform because you have you, Wilps and me as instructors.
Alex Karwoski (24:29):
It's the only- (inaudible) .
Becs Gentry (24:30):
Three giant nerds.
Alex Karwoski (24:31):
Three training specialists in one, yeah.
Becs Gentry (24:33):
Three absolute fitness nerds.
Alex Karwoski (24:36):
It is a number sport though, so I mean as
every sport, but, yeah.
Becs Gentry (24:40):
So we're all drawn. But you are our training specialist
on rowing. For those of you who don't know what
that means, that is the most knowledgeable of instructors, becomes
a training specialist, and helps impart their knowledge and experience
to the rest of the team and helps us produce
the top- level content that we hope we do produce.
Alex Karwoski (24:59):
It's like the top dork. It's the dork. Yeah. Sorry.
Becs Gentry (25:03):
So clearly me, Alex, and Wilps. But when it comes to
sharing your knowledge about rowing, how do you find the balance
between the competitive experience rower and being the Peloton instructor?
Alex Karwoski (25:23):
In my very first interview, I guess I should say,
so I got a LinkedIn message from our talent team, and I thought
it was a scam. I was with my now wife
at the time, fiancee, and I said, " Oh, look at
this. This has to be a scam." And she said, "
Well, even if it is just respond, worst case, it's
(25:43):
a scam." Four months later, it was not a scam.
It was very much a job opportunity and it was
great. And I'm forever grateful for that opportunity. In my
very first interview after what I thought was a scam,
I said to Jen, I said, " Rowing is not fun.
You have to believe me when I say that rowing
is not fun. Erging on the machine can be very
(26:04):
fun, but when... You have to take my word for it,
when you're on the water, and especially after you've trained
with these people and you've done seat racing and you've
lined up in pairs and straight fours, and then gotten
in the eights, and you're doing back and forth." " And
it's months and months and you go through eight and
a half months of training. And then you go into
two and a half months of selection, and then you
(26:24):
go into the week of meeting with the coaches and
writing down different guys' names and lineups, and then they
tally the votes and then they disregard the votes. And
then you get more into the politics of, well, he
didn't lose a seat race in the four, but... So
when you get into all of that, rowing is not fun."
So I said that to them and they all looked
at me and they were like, " Do you want this
job? Do you want to do this?" And I was like, "
(26:48):
Oh, I'm so sorry. Peloton's great. Rowing can totally be fun.
I'm sorry about that." But actually I don't think that
what we're doing at Peloton is actually teaching people how
to row. At least in my mind, that's not what
I'm trying to do. What I'm trying to do is
introduce the motion of rowing on a stationary machine. That
(27:08):
being said, open invite. If anyone wants to go up
to the Columbia boathouse, my ID still works. So we
can get in, we can row. But the difficulty with
teaching someone how to row is there's so many more
hurdles that you have to go through. And I say
that both, not only as a predominantly Ivy League sport,
(27:28):
where intro level boats cost tens of thousands of dollars
and the equipment needed and the boathouse and then the
waterways and all that. So it's difficult and sometimes difficult
things can be really fun. In the case of rowing,
I think sometimes it makes it really not fun. And so
for me, the competitive side of, " Oh, let's row and
(27:50):
let's race each other." I've tried to push that aside
and instead I've tried to make it more about the,
when you're on this machine, when you're on the Peloton
platform, yes, there's a leaderboard. And don't get me wrong,
I'm checking that thing constantly. Even while we're in class
because I want to see where people are. And because
you see more and more of the same people showing
(28:10):
up and you see who they were around. And so
I try to think of it less of, you're competing
against these people and more of those are your teammates
that you're actually getting to row with. And so that's
how I've tried to shift from the rowing is not
fun. Competing on the water is so difficult and all
that to, " Oh, rowing can be fun. And being on
the machine is how we do that."
Becs Gentry (28:32):
Nice, okay. So it's a new version of training people
to row. Training people to enjoy the motion of rowing
on a stationary machine.
Alex Karwoski (28:42):
It's very difficult to jump into a boat having never
sat down on a machine and you have this oar,
and you put it in the oar lock and the
seat moves and you're putting your feet into these shoes.
And maybe the person before you was wearing socks, maybe
not. You don't know, right? And as you're doing all
that, if you haven't sat on the erg at least
once, and almost every rowing program starts with a learn
(29:04):
to row on land, I feel like Peloton is the
world's greatest learn to row program. And it's so much
more accessible. It's so much more fun. Don't take my
word for it, take Becs, take all the other instructors.
I tell people all the time, " I'm probably the least
fun on the machine." But again, I think about this
rowing funnel and instead of trying to get people to
(29:24):
come down to the bottom of the funnel and say, "
That's the Peloton part," I just want to make the
funnel bigger and bring more people in to enjoy it.
Becs Gentry (29:35):
Now you've all got to take a (inaudible) class
just because of that. Okay, I have two more questions for you. One
of them is a personal question that I need to
know the answer to. When you run the TCS New
York City Marathon, are you going to be wearing shorts
as short as the ones you wear on the row?
Alex Karwoski (30:00):
That's the personal question. All right. That's not that personal.
Becs Gentry (30:02):
I want to don't know if I'm going to show
up to watch.
Alex Karwoski (30:05):
I mean, if it were up to me, I would
not wear shorts while I'm rowing because rowing attire, you
have a lot of moving parts-
Becs Gentry (30:13):
I'm like, naked rowing.
Alex Karwoski (30:13):
... on the thing where skin tights up. You don't want
anything to get... I'll be wearing shorts. There'll be one
inch in seams. There'll be the little pieces of fabric,
Becs Gentry (30:24):
He's a tall guy.
Alex Karwoski (30:24):
I'll also be wearing tights.
Becs Gentry (30:24):
You going to run in tights?
Alex Karwoski (30:26):
No, not tights. I mean, sorry. I call tights the
little things that-
Becs Gentry (30:29):
Oh, like cycling shorts.
Alex Karwoski (30:30):
Spandex.
Becs Gentry (30:31):
Yes. Okay, great.
Alex Karwoski (30:33):
Yeah.
Becs Gentry (30:33):
Good.
All right. I'll stick around.
Alex Karwoski (30:33):
Degrees of freedom.
Becs Gentry (30:34):
I'll stick around.
Alex Karwoski (30:36):
Maybe not at mile 18. Maybe you don't want to be there.
Becs Gentry (30:38):
Okay. And my last question, I would be able to
stay and talk to you for hours about this. I
think there's so much more to Alex rowing, beautiful, wonderful,
very talented wife. You have an MBA. You did officially
(31:02):
go to Columbia Business School. He wasn't lying. He did
do that. Very, very talented.
Alex Karwoski (31:08):
It's business school. We weren't curing cancer, but yes it was.
Becs Gentry (31:11):
Hey.
Alex Karwoski (31:12):
I just want to clarify.
Becs Gentry (31:13):
Some people say money makes the world go round. But
my final question will be, when you get that medal
around your neck right there by Tavern On The Green,
where we just ran past.
Alex Karwoski (31:27):
A lot can happen. Okay. I appreciate the confidence.
Becs Gentry (31:30):
You will, visualize it. What is going to be the
first thing Alex eats? I'm a food person. What can
I say?
Alex Karwoski (31:38):
I'm curious how the MBA tied in. I feel like
there's something that's, I'll have to run unless I'm like
unit economics on what's the most price- efficient post race
meal. (inaudible) First thing I'll eat after.
Becs Gentry (31:52):
Yeah.
Alex Karwoski (31:55):
I just asked you as we were coming in, I
need to pick your brain about fueling for the marathon.
So far the only thing I've found that I've really
enjoyed have been Jelly Belly sport beans, which Matt Wilpers
claims I shouldn't be using.
Becs Gentry (32:09):
After the race, as your reward?
Alex Karwoski (32:11):
Well, because they're delicious and I have a whole candy
diatribe. There's sweets and savories and there's car candy and
there's great workout candy. There's post workout candy.
Becs Gentry (32:24):
He's a candy guy, everyone.
Alex Karwoski (32:26):
Big sweets. Hence, why I try to just work out
a lot so I can counter that. No, but...
Becs Gentry (32:33):
This is what you did at Columbia.
Alex Karwoski (32:36):
I did do a project on some candy pricing.
Becs Gentry (32:40):
Wow.
Alex Karwoski (32:40):
But no, okay, first thing I'll eat after, probably go
to favorite bagel spot down near where we live.
Becs Gentry (32:50):
Amazing. It will be-
Alex Karwoski (32:51):
Everything bagel.
Becs Gentry (32:51):
... very well deserved because you are going to get to
that finish line. There is no doubt about it. You
are an incredibly dedicated human to everything you do. And
if nothing else, I can tell you, the TCS New
York City Marathon is the best marathon in the world
and the crowd will get you through. And if the
(33:12):
crowd happened to fluctuate in that moment, there will be
another runner who will get you through. So that finish
line is yours for the grabbing and I am so
excited to cheer you on and watch you over the
next few months try and beat my goal.
Alex Karwoski (33:33):
I was going to say, I want to put a little asterisk there and say I'm especially
flattered that you're still rooting for me, even though I
put it out there publicly that I'm trying to beat
you. Again, it's not your PR. When you want to
beat my rowing PR erg is, you let me know
and we'll start training a bit. Yeah.
Becs Gentry (33:53):
Yeah, I don't think that, you're in no fear of
that happening at all. I'm happy to be the fun
rowing instructor-
Alex Karwoski (33:59):
I will still root for you.
Becs Gentry (33:59):
... who rows mediocrely. Well, is that a word? I
don't know. We made it up. Alex, thank you so
much for joining us today on Set the Pace. It
is a pleasure to talk to you, learn from you,
work with you, and run with you. Team, remember, if
you like this episode, please go ahead, subscribe, rate, or
(34:19):
leave us a comment on the show, on whatever platform
you listen to. This not only helps us, but it
helps others find out about the show. Thank you so
much for joining us.
Alex Karwoski (34:29):
Thank you.
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