Running and Redefining Strength with Shaunta-Maé Alexander

Episode Transcript
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Shaunta-Mae Alexander (00:00):
One of the things that Tunde kept repeating to me
while on this course was, " Pick your head up. I
want you to see the beauty around you." Every time
she said that, it took my mind off of the
pain and on the moment that I was actually doing
something that I never imagined for myself. I never saw
myself running 13. 1 miles.

Becs Gentry (00:24):
Welcome to Set the Pace, the official podcast of New
York Roadrunners presented by Peloton. I'm your host, Peloton instructor,
Becs Gentry, and I am here today doing the show
solo while Rob is busy CEOing. Yep. Well, I think
it is kind of payback because I sort of left

(00:44):
him solo for a couple of weeks there whilst I
was busy vacationing and visiting my family in the Canary
Islands and having some, I'm going to say it, self-
professed, well- deserved time away from New York City. I
have to say, the running there was absolutely phenomenal. I've been
going there since I'm two years old. It looks like

(01:04):
Mars when you land. Okay, I'm going to tell you
that because if anyone ever chooses to go to Fuerteventura
in the Canary Islands, as you come in to land,
it is like the scape of Mars that you see
in movies. The running is dry, windy; terrain is trail,
sand, rocks, volcanic lava. It is challenging and divine. It

(01:30):
threw everything my way, from tantrums and tears to absolutely
fantastic strong runs on rolling hills, and most of them
ended up either at my favorite juice bar or in
the ocean with Tallulah. It was what the soul needed.
And now we're back in New York and busy trying
to crack away at a few more weeks of training,

(01:53):
before Grandma's, which is going okay. I'm not going to
go into it. It's going okay. It's not going as
well as I'd like it to be going, so we
might have to readdress some goals, but that's okay, because
that's what goals are. You can address them, you can
assess them, and you can reset them. Anyway, enough about me.
We have a fantastic show here today. We have a

(02:16):
lot of emotion and a lot of information for all
humans on today's show. First up, we are going to
hear the incredible story of Shaunta- Mae Alexander. She's an
athlete, author, and speaker who has relearned how to walk
and then run after being paralyzed twice. Yeah, I'll let

(02:41):
that settle in. If you want to check out her
Instagram and see a deep dive detail on her life
story, please do so after the show. It will just
enlighten you and a hundred percent it will inspire you
in whatever you are doing in your life. After Shaunta-

(03:04):
Mae, we have the dual board- certified dermatologist, Jane Yoo.
She's going to be here to talk with Rob about
everything you didn't know you needed to know about skincare
for runners. Yeah, there's a lot there. A lot to
unpack there, and critical information, as we said. You all
need to be looking after your skin when we're doing

(03:25):
those miles. Okay? So take notes. And then for those
of you who might be coming off a recent marathon
or half- marathon, Meb will be here with some advice
on how to overcome your post- race blues, specifically half-
marathon blues. I know, from coming back from London, there's

(03:46):
definitely some post- marathon blues for Austin, although he didn't
have the greatest of races; the weather, he had a
back injury that sparked the night before the race, so
he's definitely got some post- marathon redemption blues coming his
way. So I cannot wait to listen to that part
of the show myself as well. Try the Peloton app

(04:08):
for free and access classes for every type of runner,
whether you're training for your first race or you're a seasoned
pro. From outdoor runs and intervals to strength yoga and
stretching, you'll find the perfect fit for every part of
your routine. Whether it's a long run day or you
just need a quick five- minute reset, the Peloton app

(04:29):
meets you where you are and helps you become a
stronger, faster runner, because it's designed for someone like you.
Try the app free for 30 days and download it
now from App Store or Google Play. Terms apply. Peloton,
the official digital fitness partner for New York Roadrunners. Shaunta-
Mae Alexander is a disabled adaptive athlete. She is also

(04:53):
a children's book author, an actress, and an advocate. Diagnosed
with Crohn's disease as a teenager, she has survived countless
medical setbacks including two episodes of paralysis, and now uses
a feeding tube to stay alive. But this past March,
a mere two years after relearning how to walk, she

(05:15):
completed the United Airlines NYC Half with my fellow Peloton
instructor, Tunde Oyeneyin, by her side. Shaunta- Mae is the embodiment
of purpose and perseverance, and she is here today to
talk to us about what is possible when you run
your own race. Shaunta- Mae, I am beyond honored to

(05:40):
have you here as a guest on Set the Pace
today. Thank you for sharing your time with us and
for sharing your story with us. You are unbelievable. I
love seeing your smiling face in the studio. I love
seeing Tunde coming in after class saying, " That girl does
not know chill." How are you today?

I am well. I'm well. I'm feeling good. Yeah, I'm
grateful to be here. I'm grateful to share space with
you all and to continue to share my story and
encourage so many people.

You do. You truly, truly do with everything you do,
and I'm sure there's been many times in your life
where you have thought, " There's no way anyone else is
going through this. There's no way my story can help
anyone else." And then you come to another part in
your journey and realize that there are hundreds and thousands

(06:42):
and more faces who are watching out for you, to
see your smile, to see you get through. Let's dive
into that. Let's dive into you. Who is Shaunta- Mae
Alexander and what was your relationship to moving, in any
capacity that you desire to talk about. As a kid,

(07:07):
you grew up in foster care. Is that correct?

Yes.

Yeah. Was there movement in your life? What was it like?

Growing up in foster care was not easy at all.
I had a very, very rough childhood. My foster homes
were not the best, and that's putting it lightly. I used
movement as it related to sports as one of my

(07:37):
outlets. I also used acting as one of my outlets.
I started acting when I was about five years old in little
school plays and things, and running, probably around the same
time. As a kid, running was a way for me

(07:57):
to ... Running and playing basketball was a way for me to just expel all of
the negative energy and all of the trauma and pain
that I was enduring in these homes that I could
not express inside the home. So being viewed at school,
on the playground with other kids sometimes and then other times

(08:18):
just by myself, I was able to run and get
that all out. I was able to do the same
thing with acting. Acting was a way for me to take on another person,
another character's life as my own. It was a way for me to escape
my own reality. And so I fell in love with

(08:39):
all of it. Basketball as well. Basketball, I like to
say basketball was my first taste of self- advocacy as
a kid, because growing up as a little girl, especially
back in the nineties, playing basketball was technically a boys

(09:00):
sport. Girls can't play basketball. They don't know how to
play basketball. And so for me, I was like, " That's
fine. I'll show you." And so I would sit and I would
watch the boys play basketball and I would play the
little games on the Sega Genesis and all of that, so
that I could learn the techniques. And then I'd get back
out there and I'd ball out and I'd hoop and

(09:23):
they'd have no choice but to accept me. So that
was a way for me to not only advocate for
myself and make space and have a voice for myself
that I didn't have within these homes, but it was also
a way to show other girls. I didn't know it
then, but it gave other girls at the time permission
to do the same, " Well, if she's out there playing

(09:45):
basketball when all these boys say it's not for girls,
then I want to do it too." So that was
my first taste, first taste in that. Movement has always
been a part of my life. As far as the
actual fitness aspect and weight training and lifting and all

(10:06):
of those things, I was not a fan of that. I was not a fan of that.
Just give me the ball so I can shoot it, so I can
run up and down the court. Just give me my 100-
meter hurdles, my 200s, my 400s, my long jumps, just
give me that and I'm good. All of this weight
training stuff, I'm not interested. Distance running, I'm not interested.

(10:27):
Just give me the meat. But it wasn't until I
lost my mobility, after having a colonoscopy for severe Crohn's
flare that I was in and developed a rare reaction
to the anesthesia that was used, that I found a

(10:52):
new respect, a new, I guess you could say, gratitude
for movement. When we have the ability of our limbs
and the ability to speak and to think in our
right minds and be able to do little things like
picking things up and setting things down, tying your shoes,

(11:13):
you take all of that for granted and you don't
realize how special that really is, how privileged you really
are to have those movements and those abilities until it's
taken from you. And so when I lost my movement
and I lost my ability to speak, and I lost
my ability to form real tangible thoughts and not be

(11:37):
able to articulate those the way that I wanted to,
I just developed this gratitude. Specifically when it came to
walking, I made a promise to God. I said, " God,
if you restore my walking, if you restore my movement,
I'll run like I've never ran before, I'll walk like
I've never walked before, and I will dance like I've

(11:58):
never danced before." That was the bow that I made
to God, and He kept his end of the bargain
and I kept mine. But what I was not ready
for, what I was not prepared for, was falling in
love with the sport and the process. This was just
a vow that I originally made. I was just going to

(12:20):
do that, but I actually fell in love with movement.
I fell in love with running. I fell in love
with cycling, which I didn't even know existed until 2022.
And picking up weights?

Nah.

You couldn't get me to do it. You couldn't get
me to do it. You couldn't bribe me. So this is
not just a vow to God, it's a vow to myself. It's
a way of saying thanks to my body every single
day. It's a way for me to be the voice

(12:58):
for so many people who are out there with disabilities
and different abilities and children all over the world who have
also had hard lives, whether in foster care, battered (inaudible)
, being sick themselves. This is just a way for
me to say, " Hey, you're not in this alone. I'm
here with you." It's just a sum of everything working

(13:24):
together for my good.

Everything coming together and it all being sealed with that
vow is so beautiful and so strong. Shaunta- Mae, just
for our listeners who may not understand the severity of
Crohn's and Crohn's disease, I feel like in this transient
world we live in, many disease names are thrown around

(13:51):
and people nod their heads as though they know exactly
what it is. And then it doesn't affect them, so
they don't really know what it is. Just explain to
our audience quickly what Crohn's disease is and how your
situation took the turn, not how but why, let's say,

(14:11):
why it took the turn it did. Do you mind
going into that?

Sure, yeah. Crohn's disease is an autoimmune disease under the umbrella called
IBD, which stands for inflammatory bowel disease. That is Crohn's
disease, ulcerative colitis. Those are the sister conditions. Basically what
Crohn's disease does is, your immune system attacks your digestive

(14:38):
system anywhere from your mouth to your behind. Everything attached to
your digestive system is attacked. So it causes stomach pain,
internal bleeding, ulcers, nausea, malnutrition, lack of bowel control, all

(15:01):
kinds of different nitty- gritty symptoms that basically aren't fun.
It is debilitating. It's not fun. It's very excruciating. I
got sick at the age of nine, but wasn't diagnosed

(15:23):
until, I believe, I was 14 or 15 years old.

Oh my gosh.

So I went through middle school and high school sick.

Oh my God.

At that time, I didn't have the support, which is
another reason why I advocate and do what I do
now, because I felt alone in my process, as a
kid, as a teen, in middle school and high school.
You can only imagine how hard that can be, especially
when kids don't understand.

(inaudible) the pain and-

Yeah. And so for me, what that looked like for
me was having to bring an extra bag of clothes
in case I used the bathroom on myself. I was
in diapers in middle school and high school. Medication, having

(16:17):
to pack my own food and then having to deal with
the questions and the jokes and all the things about
being small. I was very tiny, and at the time
I didn't know it, but I was severely malnourished. And so,

(16:42):
again, I just wish I'd had the me that I
am now when I was going through this process. I
think it's a beautiful time to share this and to
share this journey and to share about Crohn's disease, especially

(17:03):
because yesterday was World International IBD Day, Crohn's Disease Day,
which I think is also crazy as well because it
was also my birthday. I think it was kind of kismet.

No.

Yeah.

Happy belated birthday.

Thank you. Thank you. I think it was kismet. I think this was just part of something
that was always going to be a part of my journey.
But for those of you that are dealing with the symptoms and dealing
with family members or friends or just know somebody that
struggles with stomach issues, I just implore you, one, to

(17:42):
make sure that you're advocating for yourself. Make sure that
you're getting in with a GI team, not accepting no for
an answer. That was a big part of my process
because it took so long for me to be diagnosed.
And that affected my mental state. There was a lot
of times when these doctors would say that it was

(18:03):
in my head or that it was stress related, and that's
daunting, especially as a kid who is suffering. So I
want you guys to advocate for yourselves. Don't give up.
Know that this is not the end of your journey
and that you can still have a beautiful and meaningful

(18:25):
life with this condition.

Absolutely. Look at your story.

Yeah.

So you had this terrible flare- up that ended up
with you being hospitalized. Let's fast- forward a little bit
to January 1st, 2022. That was after your second paralysis,

(18:54):
and you've already kind of fought for your life. You've
already fought to restart, to reset, to put every teeny
tiny teeniest tiniest ounce of energy into standing up and
saying no, or being like, "Uh- uh. I've got this. I've

(19:17):
got this back." And then that's taken away from you
again. What was going through your mind? You've already said
it was so hard for you to talk, to explain
your thoughts in your head. When you were alone in
those moments of thinking, like, " Please God, this is the

(19:38):
second time I'm going through this," how? How did you
get that strength to just say, " I'm going to do
this again"?

It was extremely difficult. I went through ... especially the second
time, I went through this deep, deep depression. At this
point, I'm not quite 33 yet, and all I've known was
trauma and pain and sickness and illness. When I relapsed

(20:12):
with this condition for the second time, and I did
not recover as quickly as I did the first time,
I didn't get to my baseline as quickly as I
did the first time, I was ready to fold in the towel.
I was like, " I don't want this anymore. I don't
want to fight anymore." I say often that people make

(20:36):
New Year's resolutions and they declare new things for their
new year and all of this, and I think that's
beautiful. I love that people set intentions for themselves ahead
of time. They see something and they want to go
for it, and they do the work to make those
intentions happen. For myself, I don't want to say I've

(21:00):
never done it, but I don't necessarily subscribe to New
Year's resolutions. For me, if I want to make a
change, I'm going to make it now. As soon as
I think it and I say I want to do something different,
immediately I'm going into action on how I can put
this forward, how I can set this forward. It just
so happened that this thought process of, " I'm done allowing

(21:25):
my disabilities to determine my quality of life. I'm done
allowing my disabilities to rule my life for me," it
just so happened that it happened to fall on January 1st of 2022.

Wow.

Crazy. I was, " Okay, well."

Crazy.

" Let's do it."

Yeah.

So I had-

33 years of, " No, I'm not doing that." And then all of a sudden
you're like, " Oh, this is the biggest one yet."

Yeah. This is enough. Enough. Enough. I want to make my dreams a
reality. I want to enjoy my life. I don't want
to live suffering anymore. I don't want that anymore. So
if that means that I have to act from my wheelchair,
then I will act from my wheelchair. If that means

(22:13):
that I am going to be on big stages and I have to do
that from my wheelchair, I will do that. If that
means I have to be an author from my chair,
I'm going to do that. I'm going to be the
strongest actress, author, motivational speaker from my wheelchair. Let's do
it. I'm done. My disabilities ... And that is my motto.

(22:34):
I live by it daily. I profess it daily. My
disabilities do not disqualify me for my purpose. They don't.
I have to do things differently, and that's okay. And
I think when people begin to understand that there are
different ways and different avenues to getting to your goals, to reaching

(22:57):
your dreams, and knowing that your possibilities are endless despite
what you're going through, despite your conditions, despite your life's
circumstances, you really become unstoppable. And so I was doing
this search on how I can become stronger, and I'm

(23:19):
a huge fan of Cynthia Erivo. I've been a fan
of hers since The Color Purple on Broadway, and I
would see her getting on this thing called a Peloton
bike. I'm like, " What is that? I want to do it. I want to do that. I like that. I like that. I

(23:41):
want it. I need it." And so I did all the
research and finding out what this thing called Peloton was and
what it does and how I can use it to
become a better, stronger version of myself, disabled and all.
My god- sister had a Peloton as well. So I

(24:03):
reached out to her and I was like, " Okay, so
you have a Peloton. Tell me all about it. I'm
thinking about getting one." She was just like, " Do it."
That was all I needed.

Without a thought.

Without a second thought. Okay. So I downloaded the app and
I was like, "Okay. So I don't have the bike. I can't
do heavy weights or anything like that. I can't run.
What can I do that's going to help build my
strength?" Light weights. I can do those. I can do

(24:35):
those from my chair. I can do a couple one,
two, three pounds from my wheelchair. And so I went
through the instructor list, all the instructors, and I said, "
I want somebody that looks like me, that looks like
they've been through some things and have come out on the other
side." And I saw Tunde's picture and I was like, "

(24:58):
Her." It was something about the light in her eyes.
You could just see it. You could just see it.
And so I hit start on that app and I
would train every day. I would literally take three to
five arms and lightweight classes a day.

We know those are not easy classes from Ms. Oyeneyin. Thank you.

They're not. They're not. I don't know.

Uh-uh.

I don't know.

How she does it?

I have no idea. I don't know. But I knew
that every time I got into this class, her words
were encouraging, and it just encouraged me to continue the fight.
I felt stronger doing it. I felt the strongest I've
ever felt.

Absolutely.

I haven't turned back since.

We love it. We love it. Okay, but tell me
though, with no matter what, no matter how many steps
forward you get to take, you know, as a human,
that your health is fragile. We all do. I hope
that we all understand life is fragile, and from having

(26:18):
the setbacks that you had with your health, I'm sure
in the back of your mind you were thinking, " My
health is more fragile than some other people, so I
have to protect my power as it grows." How did
you know that it was the right time to take
all the steps you did? So you just talked about

(26:39):
the steps with Tunde that encouraged you to do the arms
and lightweights from your chair, and then the next step
for you, well, not the next step, but a few
steps later, but the next really big one was ... Shaunta- Mae,
you decided to run. You believed you could and you
did. But talk us through how you, not just physically,

(27:05):
but mentally got to a place where you believed so
powerfully that you could trust your body again to do this.

There's this feeling that I get right before a big leap
in my movement and my life. It's hard to describe, but
it's just this inkling that I get inside. Every time
I make a huge leap, I feel it, not days,

(27:42):
not weeks, literally moments before I do it. I received my tread in
December of 2023, so I started learning how to walk
December 12th of ... Nope, I'm lying. December 2022. I started learning

(28:08):
how to walk on the tread December 12th, 2022. Beautiful numbers.

I was going to say I remember as well. I was away on maternity
leave and I came back, and I'd seen you take
some of my classes while I was away on maternity. And then we connected when
I came back. So I was like, " It must've been 2022."

Absolutely. Yeah. And so this specific day, I want to
say it was in February, I was on the tread
and I was walking. And I got that same feeling. I said, "
I think I can run. I'm going to try it. I'm

(28:48):
going to try it." Now, as I'm learning how to
walk, my speeds are very, very slow on the tread. 1.5 to 2.0
speed. So for me, a run was literally 2. 7, 3. 0.

Speed is irrelevant, isn't it? It's the movement.

It's the movement.

Mm-hmm.

And so I hit that button. I hit it twice. And
I'm getting faster. My legs are moving a little bit
faster. I'm like, " Oh my God." I have the post
somewhere on my Instagram page where I'm actually doing it.

Hang on, I can see it.

This is literally what happens every time. The same with the
bike. I got on the bike and I was training
every day for anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours. But there was
this specific day. When I was on my bike, I'd
have to use my hands to pedal my legs. That's
how I'd be able to move my legs. And I

(29:56):
did this daily until one day I was like, " I
think I'm going to take my hands off. I just want to see." The same feeling. "I just want to see if I can do it." And I pedaled. And I was like, "
Wait a minute." And I did it again, and again, and again. It's
just this-

Oh, I have chills.

It's just this God wink, I'll call it a God
wink, that says, " Mae, you're ready. Mae, you're ready. Mae,
you're ready." I think the hardest part in that is
trusting that God wink while denouncing the doubt that you

(30:35):
have in your head. It's a balance being like, what
are you going to trust more? Are you going to trust
the doubt or are you going to trust the God wink that
has never felt you? Every time you lean into that
God wink, it happens for you. That's just been my
journey. I trust the God wink every time.

So strongly. From the minute, I'm sure, that you stood
up for the first time after paralysis to taking those
steps of running on your tread, hands off the thighs
on the bike, lifting those heavier weights, to crossing the
finish line at the United Airlines NYC Half, every God

(31:22):
wink has been a really, really beautiful one with a
big smile as well. It's like a cheeky wink. It's
not just-

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Okay. Let's have a look at the adaptive training that
you've gone through, because I think it's so important for
people, you said this earlier, to understand that ... You said, "
Your disabilities does not disqualify you." And it needs to

(31:57):
be said louder. It needs to be said louder every
single day in every single way that people are training
around the world, that there are multiple ways of doing
things; though, the way, the one way, is not the
right way at all, because it's not right for everybody.
It might be right for that person. It's just not
right, period.

Yeah.

When we look at all of the adaptive training that
you've done, it's vast.

Yeah.

So where are you at now? You're obviously not just doing
one, two, three- pound weights from your chair. Where are
we now? What's your training like now?

Actually, I just finished week three of Tunde's upper body program.
So I'm lifting.

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry for you. Do you
need me to send a masseuse or something for you?

All of the things. Because the woman is nuts.

The woman is just nuts.

And this is my second time going through the program.

Okay.

I'm a glutton for growth.

Yes. I've done it once and that was fine. Thank
you very much.

So I'm definitely lifting a lot heavier. I find so
much joy in doing lower body, and that may just
be because I didn't have the functionality of my lower
body for quite some time, and so being able to use
those same legs and those same muscles and joints that

(33:31):
were immobile at one point, and being able to press
heavy weights is just something that just rocks my mind
every time. I feel so strong doing it. I'm just
getting back into running again. I was sick for some
time, which kind of comes with the territory. I have

(33:54):
a suppressed immune system, so things take much longer. But
I'm getting back into running. I have my next race
on the 1st.

Which race? What?

It is the Women's Fitness Festival that I do every
year. This is actually the very first race that I
did back in 2023, so this is a way that
I pay homage. I do this every year. This year,
I will be running the 10K, so I'm playing catch-
up with training for that, and then also doing a

(34:28):
lot of cycling. As far as having to adapt, I
adapt a lot. A lot of the things that I have to do,
I pay attention a lot to my body. I just
have to. As someone who-

Of course.

... lives with multiple conditions and disabilities, I have to
pay attention. Because the moment I choose not to pay
attention can be the defining moment of whether I go
from being in a stable condition to making myself critically
sick, or in an emergency situation, life- threatening situation. For

(35:10):
me, the way I care for myself when I get
into any workout is making sure that my heart meds
are on deck. I have to make sure that my
heart rate is at a pretty low level before I
get into my exercises, my routine, my training. Because if
I don't, I get really sick. At times, if I'm

(35:35):
flaring with Crohn's disease or the gastroparesis, I have to
do my workouts on all my feeds, which you guys
have probably seen a few times. Managing to spin or
lift weights or run attached to my feeding tube is

(35:55):
an adjustment, but it's something I need to do. And
the days that I'm flaring from my neurological condition, what
does that look like in my training? That means I
may have to slow down. That means I may have
to do workouts from my floor. That means instead of
running, I may have to walk. It means no inclines

(36:18):
at times. It means having to go at a much slower pace.
But all of this, all of this is just an indicator
that things may just have to be different. It doesn't
mean that you can't do them. It doesn't mean that
you're less qualified to do them. It doesn't mean that you're
not worthy of doing them. It just means that you

(36:41):
have to lean into the pivot a little bit. When
you lean into the pivot, you realize that you're not
limited. You're not limited. You can do it all.

Absolutely. You can. You can. Doing it all for you,
recently, or this year let's say, culminated in such a
magical day in March where ... I mean, I saw you,
was it the day before or two days before? I
don't remember whether it was the Friday or the Saturday.

(37:12):
You were in studio. You took a cycling class with
Tundes. You were exhausted. You said to me like, "Becs, I'm
tired. I'm really tired. I'm not feeling a hundred percent."
Tunde and I were like, " Chill. Just take this class
as easy as you want. This is your shakeout moment." And
then the next morning, there you were, shining so bright

(37:36):
with the biggest smile. I'm not going to take away
from the fact that I know it was ... You had
some tough moments. Every single runner has tough moments when
they go through race day. It's not just you. But
let's think about the positives and the amazingness. Is there a
moment from that day that you still think back to

(37:57):
that gives you the chills of like, " Oh my gosh. Wow."

There's a couple of them for me. Yeah. I'd probably
say one of the biggest ones for me, and I'd
say maybe for Tunde as well, we're on the FDR and
we see a runner who's not looking the best. Tunde

(38:29):
spots her first, and she grabbed my attention, and I
noticed her as well. We're just watching to see how
she's doing, see if she kind of picks things up.
Tunde is fine, I'm fighting for my life, but seeing

(38:51):
her kind of took my mind off of the pain
that I was experiencing, right?

Distraction. Right. Mm- hmm.

Her wellbeing, her safety became a priority for the both
of us. So we continued to watch her, and she
just continued to go downhill, and at one point, she
had gone off to the side and it wasn't good.
It looked like she was going to topple over. We
ran over and we grabbed her and we got her

(39:23):
to safety. We got her to the medics. I think
the beautiful thing about that that I love so much
is, it is a reflection of what the running community looks like.
It's selfless. You want to see everybody win. You want

(39:47):
to see everybody well. And to be able to take
not necessarily the pressure off of ourselves and our race,
but to take our thoughts out of doing our own
thing, to lend a hand, to help somebody else in
need more than wanting to finish this race at a

(40:09):
certain time or in whatever capacity, was just a beautiful
moment. That's one I will never forget. She did end
up reaching out to us after the race and said
that she got the help that she needed, and she
was actually able to get back on the course and
finish the race.

Yay. Perfect.

So that was absolutely beautiful.

Yes.

Another, which actually happened a lot. One of the things
that Tunde kept repeating to me while on this course was, "
Pick your head up. I want you to see the
beauty around you." Every time she said that, it took
my mind off of the pain and on the moment

(40:58):
that I was actually doing something that I never imagined for
myself. I never saw myself running 13. 1 miles. Even
up to the beginning of starting the race, I was like, "
I'm really about to do this? This doesn't feel real."
So every time she told me to " pick my head
up, I want you to see the beauty around you,"

(41:19):
it gave a new perspective. It gave a new light
about running this race, and I got to see so
many people on their own journeys running their own race
at their own pace. It was absolutely beautiful. Running with

(41:40):
Team for Kids, so that the kids could see somebody
like myself and so many other people that are out
there running the race, disabled and all, in pain and
all, was absolutely beautiful. And had she not taken me
out of my pain by telling me to simply pick
my head up and see all the beauty around me,

(42:01):
I would've missed it. Those are probably the two most pivotal
moments for me in that race. Oh, wait, one more.

(inaudible) . Of course, please.

Finish the race. Finishing.

Well, yes.

Finishing the race. Crossing that finish line. Crossing that finish
line was ... yeah. I came home from that and I've
literally been living like this ever since. You really can't
tell me anything now.

Yeah, you can't. I'm fine.

If I want to do it, I'm going to do it.

Yes, you are. You are. I'm sure every step of that 13.1,
that young, tiny nine- year- old girl in you who
struggled for five years, feeling alone, suddenly had this joyous

(42:57):
moment of love, of understanding, of probably a ton of
frustration and anger, but release. And you used the word
reclamation, reclamation, however you want to pronounce it, English versus American.
But it's true. And it takes ... I'm sure. Two paralyses,

(43:23):
years of fighting for your life, not just in the
hospital, literally before; living your life day to day, fighting
for yourself. It takes someone, in your instance, Tunde, to
take you out of a tough moment, to distract you,
to let all of those things for a moment just

(43:47):
be reclaimed by beauty and love and allow you to
see through, and a door that is just there for
you of goals and strength and inspiration because you share
it. I see another book coming for you because, I
mean, oh my gosh. How many kids out there who ...

(44:12):
Yeah, she's looking at me like, " Yes, Becs. You know." I mean, you
know I have a two and a half year old,
and it shocks me every single day the things that
she picks up in my words, of course, but my
mannerisms. And to have somebody like you inspire a kid

(44:38):
who was you? You know? That child needs you. That
child needs to see this beautiful smile that you have,
this strength upon strength upon strength that you have held
on to. So thank you for inspiring. Not just inspiring

(44:59):
kids like you, but you will inspire Tallulah to be
a stronger and more beautiful human in what you do.
So take those challenges, everybody. Take them, because life is
precious, but boy, can we? Can we? Because as you
said to those boys, " Who can't? Who can't? Uh- uh."

I'm going to show you.

"Not me. I can. Thank you." And here you are today,
still, taking the hoops and shooting your shot, my girl.
You're utterly astounding. You're awe- inspiring. All of the brain
people, doctors out there, tell you to find awe in
life every day. So today, my friends, if you are

(45:46):
struggling to find awe, go on Shaunta- Mae's page, see
her face, and there's your awe, inspiration for today. Thank
you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for
sharing it with us, with the world. I can't wait to
see what ... You're giving me the winks and the nods
of what's coming for you. I can't wait to see

(46:06):
you and squeeze you in the studio when you're next
here. But thank you for being you, and just everything
you do.

Thank you. Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank
you also because you've played a pivotal role in my
journey as well. When I started taking your classes on
the tread, when I first started, I was so intimidated.

(46:34):
I was so intimidated because I was like, " Do y'all
know who Becs is? Do y'all know? Do y'all know who this woman is? She's a beast. She's a beast on the track. I don't know if I can do this." But getting
into your classes, honestly, I think you're one of the
most challenging tread instructors there is. Because, one, again, you

(46:57):
know who Becs is. But because you challenge us to
push ourselves past our limits, but you inspire us in
the process, which I think is beautiful because oftentimes, especially
when it comes to me, being on the tread is

(47:18):
hard. Running is hard for me daily. It is a
constant battle in my head of, if I can actually
do this still. I've run a half- marathon. But when
I get in your classes and I choose these hard
classes, knowing that you're there and that you're inspiring, and you're doing

(47:40):
it with such love and compassion and empathy for the
people that you are instructing and teaching, not just on
the tread, but off the tread as well, is something
that I'll hold dear to. I absolutely adore you. I
do. You're so special to me. I did not forget

(48:03):
the message that you sent to Tunde, while I was
on the course, for me, as I was fighting the
last, I think it was like the last 5K. I think it was the last
three miles. And that helped me run a little bit
faster. It actually brought me to tears. So I want to say
thank you for all that you do. Thank you for

(48:24):
inspiring so many of us. Thank you for your love
and your heart, not just for the sport, but for the
people. I'm glad I get to experience you in this
way, and I definitely can't wait to get back to
New York to hug your face again. And hopefully be
in your classes, because I need that. I need to have no chill in your class.

You better. You better. You better. We're getting you in. Amazing.
All right, lots of love, and I will see you soon.

Thank you so much.

Rob (49:07):
New York Roadrunners is a nonprofit organization with a vision
to build healthier lives and stronger communities through the transformative
power of running. The support of members and donors like
you helps us achieve our mission to transform the health
and wellbeing of our communities through inclusive and accessible
running experiences, empowering all to achieve their potential. Learn more

(49:30):
and contribute at nyrr. org/ donate. Dr. Jane Yoo is
a dual board- certified dermatologist, a surgeon and an assistant
professor at Mount Sinai, and she wants every runner, especially
runners of color, to take sun protection seriously. A decades-
long New York Roadrunners member, Jane just completed her Abbott

(49:50):
Six Star Journey at the 2024 Berlin Marathon, and she's
in training now for Sydney. In addition to her work
as a researcher and a public policy advocate, Jane is
a spokesperson for the Skin Cancer Foundation helping shape national
sun protection standards. She joins us today to share her
practical advice for fall marathon training, especially when it comes

(50:12):
to sunscreen and skin health. Dr. Yoo, it is great
to see you. You and I have had a chance to chat a couple
of times in the past about your passion on this
topic, so thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Jane Yoo (50:24):
Thank you.

Rob (50:25):
Okay. I have a lot of questions about this. Let's
just start with the basics. When a runner is out
there training through the spring and the summer months, getting
ready for whatever their race is, a half- marathon, a
marathon, maybe they're in races over the summer, how much
is sun protection a factor they should be thinking about?

(50:47):
How much time in the sun does it require to
really potentially do damage to your skin?

Well, that's a great question because I think when we
think about running marathons, we're thinking about the long game.
Our training typically starts in the summer, goes through November,
and so we see all different seasons. We should be
thinking about sunscreen actually every single day of the year

(51:15):
because we have sun exposure that comes from two different
types of rays; the UVA rays, which cause premature skin
aging, as well as the UVB rays or burning. But we
still also have visible light that affects us, so every
day, we should be thinking about sun protection.

Rob (51:33):
Jane, if I can call you Jane, you and I know
each other, I should call you Dr. Yoo. Dr. Yoo,
we run in the morning a lot of the time.
Oftentimes our races are at 8
00 a. m. How big a factor is that? I'm
not often going out for a run at noon or 2:00 in
the afternoon. I'm usually early in the morning, sometimes late

(51:56):
in the evening. Does that matter a lot? If you're
running before 9
less or is the sun really dangerous any time of day?

I think you really have to worry about the sun during the
prime times, during noon and when it's really, really hot
out, but I would recommend folks to run either early
in the morning or in the evening, so they get
less of that exposure and less of the burning. I
have to say that most people think that skin cancer

(52:29):
is caused by just the sun, but there's genetic and
there's environmental factors that play a role. The most important
thing that we can do is protect ourselves and make
sure that we have hats as well as sunglasses and
UV clothing.

Rob (52:46):
So it's not just about sunscreen. It's obviously about the
things, the physical things that block the sun. I'm a
huge fan of running with a hat on, baseball cap
sort of thing when the sun's out, and sunglasses to
protect the eyes as well, right?

Exactly. The more you can protect yourself on sun exposed
areas, the better. If you want to get into sun protection,
well, first of all, this is May, Skin Cancer Awareness
Month. Let me start off with that. Skin cancer is the
most common form of cancer in the US, and one
in five people will be diagnosed by age 70. So
everyone needs sunscreen and everyone is at risk regardless of

(53:21):
their skin color. What the American Academy of Dermatology recommends
is that everyone wear sunscreen that's broad spectrum, protecting you
against the UVA as well as UVB rays, SPF30 or higher, as
well as something that's water resistant. Most people ask, " Well,
what is SPF?" That's the number that just tells you

(53:42):
how long the sun's UVB rays would take to redden
the skin when you're using a particular sunscreen compared to
the amount of time without the sunscreen. Basically, using a
sunscreen with SPF30 blocks 97% of the sun's UVB rays.
The higher number SPFs block slightly more of the sun's

(54:03):
UVB rays, but no sunscreen can block a hundred percent
of the sun's UVB rays. Again, it's really, really important
to reapply, and what I recommend is reapplying every two hours.

Rob (54:15):
What about sunblocks, Dr. Yoo? Those are different because they're,
as I understand, you tell me, are they physical blocks?
Zinc and things like that, that actually you can still
see on someone's face, they don't rub in the same way?

There's two different types of sun protectors. There's the chemical
as well as physical sunscreens. The primary difference between the
sunscreens is the active ingredients that they contain. If the
active ingredient in your sunscreen is titanium dioxide or zinc
oxide or both, you have a physical sunscreen. That basically
consists of a layer that's on your skin. Dermatologists often

(54:53):
will recommend this for people with sensitive skin or people
with acne. If the sunscreen doesn't contain the titanium dioxide
or zinc oxide, you have a chemical sunscreen. Some sunscreens
can even be hybrid of them, so they contain something
that is a chemical as well as a physical sunscreen, and so
they will be labeled that way.

Rob (55:14):
Unless someone has a sensitivity, do you recommend the physical
over the chemical?

Well, if they have a sensitivity, they're more likely to
be utilizing a physical sunscreen because they'll be less reactive
to the chemicals.

Rob (55:29):
Got it. But is one more effective than the other, Dr.
Yoo, or they're both as effective?

Well, the physical sunscreens will protect against UVA as well as
UVB, so you're guaranteed by that. I would go with
a physical sunscreen if you're always on the fence.

Rob (55:46):
Got it. Got it. Now, what about the factor, obviously,
that a runner's dealing with, Dr. Yoo, of the sweating?
You're out there, you're running with the sunscreen on, and
a lot of the time you'll sweat. I've had experiences
where I can feel the sweat dripping into my eyes
after putting on a sunscreen and it stings a little

(56:07):
bit. Are there either certain types of sunscreens or certain
ways to apply them or times to apply them that
might make it easier for a runner to run and
sweat and still tolerate having sunscreen on?

Definitely. I think the best sunscreen is the one that you're
going to use every day. That being said, try out
a lot of different sunscreens, and I've tried many, and
so I know which ones are going to sting and
burn in my eyes. I typically like to go for
a stick because the stick is easy to carry. It's
portable. Creams are best for people who have dry skin

(56:42):
and applying around the face. Gels are good for people
who have oily complexion and hairy areas such as the
scalp, or the males and the chest. Spray, this is
the thing that I have to say about sprays. You
really have to rub it in. If you just let
it aerosolize, it's just going to go in the air.
It's not going to protect you. I always tend to just
keep the stick on hand and reapply every hour just

(57:06):
to make it easier. Basically when I take a gel,
I'll also do the sunscreen stick.

Rob (57:13):
Got it. Now I'm really interested in what you say
about people of color because, okay, I, as an African-
American, I will be perfectly honest in this conversation. I
have always believed that while it's good to wear sunscreen,
especially if I know I'm going to be in the
sun for long periods of time, that I don't need
it as much because I have melanin in my skin

(57:34):
that is kind of serving as a natural sunscreen and
that I'm less susceptible to skin cancer. Tell me why
this is wrong, why I've been laboring under this false
belief all these years.

All skin tones have melanin, not only dark skin. There
is a misconception that darker skin tones provide natural sun
protection, but that's not actually true. The darkest skin tone
only provides up to an equivalent of SPF13. Since skin
cancer happens to everyone, right? Typically, skin cancer in skin

(58:08):
of color happens where the sun don't shine and areas
where you get very little sun exposure. So skin cancer,
like melanoma in African- Americans as well as Asians, happens
on the hands and feet; basically on the palms of
the hands, the soles of the feet, under the nail
areas. Squamous cell carcinoma is the most common in Black people,

(58:29):
and 1 to 2% of all cancers happen in African- Americans,
2 to 4% in Asians, and 4 to 5% of skin cancers in
Hispanic people. So it could happen, and I've seen it
in my office.

Rob (58:40):
That's really interesting. So really, your advice applies to everyone
no matter who they are.

And you can get a sunburn. Just don't think that
because you're darker skinned, you can't get a sunburn. People
of color may not show the visible redness that other
people do, like our Caucasian counterparts, but in fact, our
skin can also burn in the sun, and the skin
can darken and feel warm to the touch and crack
and eventually blister.

Rob (59:07):
That is true. I have had that experience. When I
was younger especially, getting way too much sun in hot
places like the Caribbean and feeling the burn, both in
terms of the way I felt and then how hot
it was to the touch. So that's true. Really interesting.
Another thing that's interesting to me, as a person of
color in particular, is this balance between protecting my skin

(59:30):
and protecting from skin cancer, but also getting enough vitamin
D, Dr. Yoo, because it's very common for people of
color to have vitamin D deficiencies because they don't process
the sun the same way that someone who's lighter skinned does.
I've actually had that myself and have to take vitamin
D supplements because of that.

Yeah, I think that's also a fallacy. I think we all get
enough of vitamin D from our natural exposure, just like walking
outdoors. I don't think that you can say like, " Oh,
I need more sun exposure for vitamin D purposes," is
necessarily the truth. In all reality, most of us are
not construction workers. We get enough sun exposure just ambiently. So

(01:00:13):
I would say that's definitely false.

Rob (01:00:17):
All right. So the advice is simple, Dr. Yoo. Wear sunscreen. Is
it for any run? Is it just for longer runs?
It sounds like you are in the camp of, if
you're going outside and you're going to see the sun,
have something on.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:00:29):
Exactly. So every day, no matter what, rain or shine,
you still have ambient UV exposure out there. And do
it, if not for skin cancer, for anti- aging. You
don't want those wrinkles and you don't want to look
like an old person out there. You want to look nice and young.

Rob (01:00:44):
I think we can all agree with that. Absolutely. Speaking of looking young,
feeling young, you must be feeling young and great after
completing your Six Star Journey. Congratulations on getting the Six
Stars in Berlin. That's huge. Tell us about your running
journey. When did you first start to run?

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:01:03):
Oh gosh, this is probably more than 20 years ago.
I started running because my sorority sister passed away from
brain cancer, and so I ran for Dana- Farber. I
ran the Boston Marathon and I was scared because I had
never run more than three miles in my entire life. But
through Dana- Farber's excellent training program with Jack Fultz, I

(01:01:27):
was able to complete that marathon. I said, " Wow, this
is incredible." It was such a great feeling, the training,
and just having so many people around me do it
at the time. I think it just stirred this feeling that, "
Okay, I can do it again. And I can do it
again." And it just became that long journey.

Rob (01:01:48):
How many years did it take you to get through
all six?

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:01:51):
Oh gosh, it took quite a while. I'll have to
say Berlin took a couple of tries because I had
some injuries. First time, I had a stress fracture because
I ramped up my training too quickly. Another time, I
tore my medial meniscus, and so I had an injury
there. So I'm really, really concerned about just staying healthy

(01:02:12):
and just making sure that I train properly and get to
the start line without any significant injuries.

Rob (01:02:21):
As a dermatologist, as someone who's an expert in skin,
I'm just curious what your regimen is, Dr. Yoo. Take
us through before a run, during a run, and then maybe
after the run. Are there things you're doing as well
after the run? What are all the things and the steps
you take to keep your skin healthy?

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:02:37):
Just like you, Rob, I'm a normal person. I'm not
fast. I would say I'm more of a back of
the pack runner, so I need more sunscreen.

Rob (01:02:47):
Because you're out there longer, yeah. The longer you're out there.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:02:53):
(inaudible) . Longer. I'm the person that they're waiting until the cows come home.

Rob (01:02:59):
And the later waves actually, which tend to be when
the sun is higher in the sky. It really is
actually a really good point that the slower runners are
out there longer and usually when it's hotter and more
intense sun.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:03:11):
Exactly. And I'm not in my twenties anymore, like when
I started running. As we get older, our pace also
gets slower too. But in any case, it's just enjoying
the process and doing everything that other people do; making
sure you get plenty of rest, drinking plenty of fluids,
don't do anything differently on race day, knowing what they

(01:03:35):
have at the different fueling stations. I knew that they
had Pocari Sweat in Japan, and I had loved that
drink as a young child, so I was very familiar with it,
but I was not going to take anything that didn't
look like a banana or an orange in Tokyo. Okay?
I know that they had some radishes and other things
out there, but I was not about to try anything new.

Rob (01:03:56):
I was the exact same way, Dr. Yoo. I saw baked goods and all kinds
of things that I had no idea what was in these
things. I was like, " Not today. I'm curious what this
tastes like, but not today."

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:04:11):
Yeah, don't do anything different. I'm a little bit of an oddball
too. As my running coaches know, I run on the
treadmill just so I get less sun exposure, and I like
to have very much controlled environments. And I'm a huge
fan of Becs Gentry. She is someone I listen to
when I train, and I'll do some of the 30- minute, one-

(01:04:34):
hour runs and different types of workouts listening to her.
And forward is a pace, I have to say. She
says that too, right?

Rob (01:04:42):
That's right.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:04:43):
You just keep moving one foot across another and just
doing it.

Rob (01:04:50):
All right. The message from Dr. Jane Yoo, wear sunscreen, reapply
too. I know that's important. You got to bring it out there
with you and reapply. How do you reapply in the
middle of a race, by the way? Do you actually
stop and go over to the side and reapply? Do
you just try to do it while you're running?

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:05:06):
You have to do it a little surreptitiously, right?

Rob (01:05:06):
Yeah.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:05:06):
You're going to attract attention. No. I actually will do
it again, like when I'm taking in the gels. I'll
do it at the same time. It's kind of like
a no- brainer to me. When you look at your
Garmin and the time is up, so you'll just reapply

(01:05:27):
during that time. Some people can do it when they
take a break getting water. So it just depends. I'll
say in all reality, it's not the easiest, and sometimes
I do forget to reapply. Or you're really thinking, " Okay,
is this a day for the PR? Is the sunscreen
going to ..."

Rob (01:05:48):
Yeah, to have the sunscreen keep you from getting that
PR, I imagine that would be a little frustrating, but
not as bad as having skin cancer, I guess, right?
That's the message.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:05:59):
Exactly.

Rob (01:06:01):
All right. Dr. Jane Yoo, I appreciate your joining us.
I know this is obviously your job, so you know
it better than anyone, and it's great advice for all
of our runners to hear. Congratulations on your Six Stars.
It's amazing. Sydney as well is coming up. So you're going to run Sydney this fall?

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:06:14):
It's coming up, yes. I'm just starting off my training,
doing a lot of squats and all the foam rolling,
all the stretching and things that I'm supposed to do,
because otherwise, Amy Sitar would get really mad at me.
She's the head coach for the New York Flyers. So

(01:06:36):
I'm just appreciative of all of you guys. The New
York Roadrunners, you've been so supportive along the way during
this 20- plus- year- old journey. Because it's been that
long, and you learn along the way what to do and
what not to do. And listen to your body, most
of all.

Rob (01:06:53):
Absolutely.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:06:54):
(inaudible) develop good skin habits, year long.

Rob (01:06:57):
Well, thank you so much, Dr. Yoo. It's great to
see you. This is actually a great reminder for me
now going into the summer, to get a little more
serious about my skin regime and my protection. I've definitely
been just riding the dark skin thing, so I'm going
to stop doing that and start using more sunscreen. Dr.
Yoo, thank you very much. Thanks for being a member

(01:07:17):
of New York Roadrunners. Appreciate you.

Dr. Jane Yoo (01:07:20):
Thank you.

Becs Gentry (01:07:21):
Thank you for joining us, Jane, and for being a member
of New York Roadrunners. Now to the final part of
our show, our Meb Minute.

Meb (01:07:28):
Marathon Blues. We all go through it. After a marathon
or half- marathon, it is normal to feel a sense
of emptiness. Set new goals and stay motivated. Prioritize recovering
with rest, cross- training and light running to avoid post-
race burnouts. Reflect on your accomplishment and find ways to
give back, such as mentoring new runners. Plan your next

(01:07:51):
race or fitness challenge to maintain momentum. For me, after
a race, I sometimes immediately to sign up, and other
times you are questioning, " Why did I do this?" But
give it time. Give time to recover. Three weeks later,
you're going to miss running. And then a month or so
within the race, you're going to be like, " Oh, I
miss running. I need to sign up for a race."

(01:08:13):
Just make sure you are in the right mental phase to be able
to just say, " Hey, I'm ready for another challenging goal,"
and work toward that goal.

Becs Gentry (01:08:21):
That does it for another episode of Set the Pace.
Thank you so much to today's guests, Shaunta- Mae Alexander
and Dr. Jane Yoo. If you like this episode, please
go ahead and subscribe, rate, or leave a comment for
the show on whatever platform you're listening on. This not
only helps us, but it helps others find out about
the show too. Take care.

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