Sof Camacho on Culture, Creating Art, and Chasing PRs

Episode Transcript
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Sof Camacho (00:00):
Running should be accessible, right? Running should be for everyone.
So, if you work at night, running is for you.
If you run a little bit slower, running is for you.
If you walk most of your runs, running is yours.
I don't like seeing, especially more recently, just the gatekeeping of running
because I feel like it's the last sport that should
be gatekeeped.

Becs Gentry (00:24):
Welcome to Set the Pace, the official podcast of New
York Roadrunners presented by Peloton. Today, I'm your host, Peloton
Instructor Becs Gentry, taking the helm as my co- host,
Rob Simmelkjaer, CEO of New York Road Runners, is out
of town. All right. Well, this past weekend was a

(00:45):
great one. There was a lot going on. Honestly, I
think we all thought that because the US Open was
over and tennis was done, that all sport was done.
But then, we all remembered that the world championships got
underway in Tokyo this weekend and we saw two very

(01:05):
exciting marathons unfold on the streets of Tokyo. So, first,
let's just talk about that women's race. It was led,
most of the way, by past Set the Pace guest
Susanna Sullivan, who ran an unbelievably gutsy race. She took
charge early on, leading for 18 or so miles, okay?

(01:28):
Eventually, she was caught and she hung on for very
impressive 4th place overall in a hugely awesome time of 2:28:
17. The conditions were hot and humid, but they all
pushed on unbelievably well. The world championship title ultimately went

(01:48):
to the 2021 TCS New York City Marathon champ, Peres Jepchirchir
of Kenya, with a time of 2:24
I highly recommend you watch the last at least two
kilometers of that race back, especially when the women came

(02:08):
back into the stadium, which was the Olympic Stadium from
the Tokyo games. Watch that part back because there is
just so much joy. Anyway, next day, we move on and it was
the men's turn, and there was a massive pack, sticking
together, leading the field for most of the way, taking
their turns at the start, and it came down to

(02:30):
an absolutely thrilling photo finish at the line on the
track between Tanzania's Alphonce Simbu, who managed to take the slight
lead over Germany's Amanal Petros. They both actually finished with
the time of 2:09
a second difference, which meant Alphonce took gold. We had

(02:53):
some incredible Set the Pace representation in the men's field
with Clayton Young. Actually, he took a fall at mile
9 and he managed to hang on to the lead
pack all the way through the 40K and he did
finish as the top American with a time of 2
hours, 10 minutes, and 43 seconds. Ninth place overall, so huge
congratulations to every runner who went over to Tokyo for

(03:17):
the world champs, whether it was marathon and beyond, all
the athletes. Here at NYC, it was a party in
the Bronx at the annual New Balance Bronx 10 Mile
race. The 4th of five stops in the New York
Road Runners Five- Borough Series. This weekend's finishes... The top
spots in the men's race were Ryan Kutch with 49 minutes and 20

(03:39):
seconds from Central Park Track Club. The women's race was
led by Felicia Pasadyn with 53 minutes, 26 seconds from
212 Athletic- Saucony. In the non- binary category, we have Jacob
Caswell with 59 minutes and 10 seconds from Front Runners New
York. So, again, all of the athletes who toed the line

(03:59):
this weekend for the New Balance Bronx 10 Mile, congratulations!
What a summer it has been. One more stop on
the journey of the New York Road Runners Five- Borough
Series to go. Okay. Coming up in just a moment
is our guest, my friend Sof Camacho, makes their third
appearance on Set the Pace, but, this time, not as

(04:20):
a featured member, not as the RBC Brooklyn Half non-
binary winner, although those are both great reasons to be
on the show, but now here they are as an
emerging elite runner in their own right. Sof will be
with us in just a moment. Also, on today's show,
today's Member Moment features an interview with the great Meb Keflezighi

(04:40):
and New York Road Runners member who took on the
Speed Project this year, Jen Curtis. I cannot wait for
you to hear that, having done the Speed Project multiple
times myself. I love listening to people and their individual
experiences. And then, as for today's Meb Minute, we take
a break from Meb's mile by mile countdown to the
2025 TCS New York City Marathon to focus instead on how

(05:04):
to maintain your mental health during your intense marathon training
season. So, stay tuned.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
This episode of Set the Pace is brought to you
by Volvo Cars, including the fully electric Volvo EX90 SUV,
the official vehicle of the TCS New York City Marathon. The
Volvo EX90 SUV is designed to be the safest Volvo
ever made, with safe space technology, cutting edge radars and
cameras that help you detect potential risks inside and outside

(05:33):
the car, even in the dark, helping to protect you
and those around you, because sometimes the moments that never
happen matter the most. Visit volvocars. com/ us to learn
more about the fully electric EX90 proudly assembled in South Carolina.

Over the past year, Sof Camacho has quickly become a
name to know in distance running. They won the non-
binary division of the 2024 New York City Marathon in
an astounding 2:31
even more astounding 2:29

(06:12):
fastest marathon times ever by a non- binary athlete. This
summer, Sof picked up wins at Nike's After Dark half
marathon in Los Angeles, the Bandit Grand Prix in Brooklyn,
showing an incredible range from the marathon down to the 3K. Alongside
these breakthroughs on the roads, Sof has a whole second
life on stage as a drag performer, Xana Whoria. Taken together,

(06:36):
their running and art have put Sof squarely on the
map not just as an emerging athlete, but also as
a singular voice in the sport. Sof, hi.

Hello.

I am never not in awe of you, your achievements,
the grace with which you carry yourself through life in
general. We've been able to spend quite a bit of
time together and we've run a lot of races together.

(07:08):
I've been chasing your dust, but it is just so
amazing to see, as I just said, this range of
excellence that you can bring to running. I can't wait
to dive into this conversation to let our listeners learn
a bit more about you because there's snippets I've got

(07:29):
to know I adore about you and, every time I
see you, I am just always gushing of how incredible you are.
The whole time I've been co- host on this podcast,
your name has been there, the winning names of our
races, week in, week out. So, I'm sure our listeners
kind of do know you.

Thank you, what an intro.

Well, it's all stuff you've done. Everyone, big athletes like
you, always say that, but I'm like, " This is all you. You realize
that?" It's just wild once somebody else breaks it down.
Okay, let's take it back. I want everybody to follow
you and to watch you in everything that you do

(08:15):
because living authentically is just how you roll. You've said
that, many a time, that it makes everything lighter, even
your legs. So, can you explain that to us?

Yes. So, I actually started running obviously on a women's
team. It was high school. I always thought, " High school,
maybe I just don't fit in, whatever. College will be
different." I also was told never to choose my school
based on running because I was likely not going to
make it on a D3 team. I did walk onto

(08:51):
my college team. I was nowhere near fast enough to
be recruited to anything. So then, being on a women's
college team, I was like, " Okay. This also feels a
little... Something isn't clicking, and it has to be me.
Something's wrong with me." It was only after I graduated
and actually found nightlife that I realized how common it

(09:12):
is to be trans and how many people felt the
same, and it was kind of something that clicked instantly.
After I leaned into that side of me a little
more and surrounded myself with people that had similar experiences
in their life growing up, it's when it became more
natural to just live however I do. And then, it kind

(09:37):
of permeated itself into running. Night and day, I'm the
same person. So, it just kind of happened. Yeah.

Oh, that is just... It's amazing to hear because, in
the honesty of it all, it doesn't happen that simply, not that
it was simple for you. But in a fluid way,
a lot of people struggle, so I'm sure you're a
beacon of light and hope to many, many people out
there. So, let's talk about how you balance your performance

(10:07):
goals with the physical and emotional realities of training as
a non- binary athlete.

Yeah, luckily... I do run every day and I work
at night a lot. If I'm not doing drag, if
I'm not on stage, I am tattooing a lot. I
do a lot of parties where I come and I
tattoo my flash, which is also physically demanding because I
find that, the night, my shoulders are sore, my back is

(10:33):
sore and I'm like, " Oh, my God, wow." I didn't
think that sitting so long would also be so physically
demanding. So, it is about balancing the two, but also,
in the back of my mind, I know that nothing
is perfect, which is also something I struggled with is
perfectionism and being extremely Type A and thinking that everything

(10:57):
had to be just right. I learned kind of to
move away from the all- or- nothing mentality that I
so strongly grasped growing up, especially in the household that
I was raised. I'm Mexican. Everything had to be perfect.
Everything had to be right. It really wasn't about the
effort you put in. It didn't really matter. It was

(11:18):
more of if it was good enough or done well.
I keep that in the back of my mind. As
in, everything I approach, I try my best in and
I aim to do well. But, at the same time,
it's not the end of the world if I don't,
I guess, do everything perfectly. I enter marathon training, I'm like, "

(11:39):
Okay," in the back of my mind, I know that
I work with a crazy schedule, so it's not about
if this run is going to happen more. It's like, "
Okay. When am I going to do it?" and I'm
open to going to Mile High where I work and
we have access to treadmills whenever we want. So, that
might be a 10

(11:59):
in or it might be another crazy run at 2:
00 AM if I'm doing it after a night shift
if I didn't fit it in the day. So, it's
more about just, " Okay. When am I going to do
this?" because I'm going to do it anyway, if that makes sense.

It does, yeah. It's a strong mentality. I think the
vast majority of the population would be ready to go
straight home after they've worked a night shift and figure it
out the next day. That kind of mindset. It's just
so cool to hear somebody say, " Yeah, you've just got
to shift it in that respect of you've worked the

(12:36):
night and..." You're probably quite energized when you finish a
shift, especially being on stage. You are kind of pumped up,
so why not use that adrenaline and that excitement to
go and get some miles? That's actually a really great way
of putting it. Okay, so perfectionism... It's hard, I'm sure.

(12:57):
My God. I've been to Mile High a few times,
I love it, but I can't even imagine going in
at 2
and the mirrored walls. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so talking
about your perfectionism. You're transitioning, but you've decided to delay

(13:20):
testosterone to keep racing in the women's categories per se.
How do you feel that that has affected and shaped
your athletic identity right now?

I try to view it as a luxury because, a
lot of times, something that I notice with professional running
specifically and pro sports in general is, when you're a
pro athlete and when you have a career in sports,
it's hard to know when to quit. It feels like
you are deciding, " I cannot get better than what I've

(13:59):
done," and that, to me, it feels not real because,
to me, I'm just like, " I just want to get better
and better and better," and that's just the athlete mentality.
Especially with pro running, specifically with women, is a lot
of these women actually peak when they're 30 or in
their 30s or later than that, especially in marathoning. So,

(14:24):
it's hard as someone assigned female at birth to decide
when you are done. That's just unfathomable. And then, what's
next? Especially with Olympians, a lot of Olympians that I've
spoken to personally struggle with the what's next part because
your entire life you kind of have this goal and
then you did it, and then what's next? For me,

(14:48):
it's kind of a luxury because I call it white
knuckling where I get to push, push, push and focus
on this one thing for a shorter period of time,
and then I decide, " Okay, I've done it. I've done
my thing, and there's this other side of my life
that I am really excited about." In the back of my mind,

(15:10):
I'm always like, " Oh, my God, I wish I could
do this now," or, " I wish I had these changes
in my 20s and I wish I could live, I
guess, my, quote, unquote, 'boyhood' in my 20s and go through the
uncomfortable puberty parts, not in my 30s." That's something that
often just gets me down a little, thinking about that.

(15:32):
But at the same time, I try to see it
the other way where I'm like, " Well, I have the
luxury of having this thing that comes after my pro
career that I'm striving for right now." There's this after
that I'm so excited for, and so I don't have
to be in limbo of, " Am I done? Am I
not done?" Or, if I am, I at least I'm like, "

(15:52):
Okay, I feel fine. I went for this. Now, I
have this whole other thing," which is also why I
like to push non- binary categories for races because I
would like to still run non- binary and I would
still like to race for fun and run not pro
later on.

Of course, that is a luxury. That really is. I think
just as somebody assigned as female at birth, as you
said, it's very difficult for women to draw the line
in any career because it is that, " Am I done

(16:30):
yet?" whether it's a professional running career or performance, whether
it's a career where you can't go back after having children
very easily. It's just always that level of, " Am I
done yet?" To have something so incredibly exciting waiting for

(16:50):
you after is a huge luxury and not one many
people afford. Your advocacy is huge. I really do admire
the fact that you focus on being good at running.
I think we have to see the air quotes here
because your humility of just, " I'm good at running," is

(17:13):
hilarious because you are phenomenal at running. But that's kind
of your one arm of beauty and strength and you
are using your visibility as a drag performer as a
tool to help educate and help raise awareness. So, what

(17:35):
is that strategy as they kind of come together and
then one peaks maybe, one goes down? What's that strategy
looking like?

I honestly think it's because... Again, going back to me
being an extreme perfectionist and being Type A my whole
life, I guess if you google little pictures of little
Mexican kids, it's the hair gel slicked back. It's always
perfect hair, huge bows. So, I grew up, even just

(18:06):
if there was a lump in my hair, I needed to start my
hair over again. It was like everything needs to be
perfect. If my handwriting was poor, I would redo my
homework. I would ask for a new piece of paper. Even if
I was in class, I would ask for a new
one and redo the whole thing, rewrite it. That was
so extreme. I did that throughout all of high school

(18:27):
even, like my hair, everything needed to be perfect. I
guess now that I'm running faster than I did in
college, when I was trying to maintain the oatmeal that
I ate... I would bring it with me in a
bag, very specific. Everything was perfect and it was so

(18:47):
exhausting because the second something wasn't perfect, it was the end
of my world. With nightlife, it kind of forced me
to lean into the side where everything is not going
to be perfect and I have to be ready for
that. Leaning into that side of me made it so
that I would expect things to not be perfect and,

(19:09):
in turn, my response to, I call it my trains
being knocked over, is more like, " I knew this would
happen," and I also know I'm going to figure it
out no matter what because I always have. So, it
forces me out of the panic. I would be lying
if I still don't have perfectionist tendencies in me. But,
at the same time, the nightlife work and then the

(19:30):
advocating for that side is... You can actually achieve fitness
things, fitness goals, fitness milestones and breakthroughs, even with an
unconventional schedule or what you would think is the opposite
of what a semi- pro athlete would be doing. Especially

(19:51):
in the running world where... Running should be accessible, right?
Running should be for everyone. So, if you work at
night, running is for you. If you run a little
bit slower, running is for you. If you walk most of
your runs, running is yours. So, I don't like seeing,
especially more recently, just the gatekeeping of running because I

(20:12):
feel like it's the last sport that should be gatekeeped.
You have two feet or you could even have one.
I don't care how many feet you have. Running is
yours. I'm a huge advocate for the concept of it's
for everyone and the external like, " Did you take your

(20:33):
electrolytes? Did you take your fuel? You need this, you
need that," the overspending. I get it. But at the
same time, any fuel works, any hydration works. So, the
narrative of needing all these specific things to be good
at something is what my main thing is. And I try
to do that through nightlife and working in nightlife and
drag. You can be an artist and an athlete. You

(20:56):
should be a multifaceted person if you have many things.
Running should just add on to you as a person,
not take over your whole personhood, I guess.

Yes, I am with you and I have my pom
poms out cheering for everything you just said because, as
we're both running coaches as well, it hurts me when
people think running isn't for them, or they can't fit
in, or it has to be marathon training and they

(21:28):
can't fit it into their life. I'm just constantly like, "
No, maybe you see that because it's in Vogue right
now, distance running, super cool, yes. People going to run a
100K on their Monday morning, cool, good for them. That's
their schedule. They can celebrate that. You can celebrate that
with them. But if it's not your schedule, it doesn't

(21:49):
matter. You make it work and you just start by
walking. You start by, instead of getting in your car
to a shop, walk to it. You've got to make
it yours." And I love that you just said running is for
everyone, and it truly is. I always tell people, " It's
not about the pace. It doesn't matter because..." I'm sure

(22:10):
you've had that as a running coach before, " You are
fast." I was fast.

No, you are (inaudible) . Fast is relative.

Yes, it's relative and people are like, " Oh, well, I
can't run like you, so I'm not going to." I'm like, "
You think I came out of the womb running like
that? I used to run like Phoebe from Friends, all
arms and legs everywhere. It takes some practice, yes, but
you've got to make it yours. I'm here." Okay. So,

(22:41):
your girlfriend says that your superpower is your brain. I
think everybody has just heard why and how. How do
you learn so much? Where do you learn from and
how does it play a part of you in your
art and your sport? Because I know you do actual

(23:01):
art, like drawing too, as well as performing art. How
is your intellect... How does your brain work across all
of these multifaceted parts of you?

I think you just said it because, in the back
of my mind, it's the concept of figuring it out.
I will figure it out. I don't care how. I
know I spoke about needing everything to be perfect, but
the truth is that that was my only thing that
I could hang onto growing up because my life, not

(23:34):
to be this person, but my upbringing was pretty difficult.
A lot of my life was spent in survival mode.
You kind of only learn that later when you discover
that that's not the way you have to live your
whole life and that discovery actually, it doesn't hurt you,

(23:56):
but it can flip your world upside down when you
realize that there's another side to life that's not just
surviving. Because then when you discover that there is good
and that there's a whole positive side of life that you
can have, you realize like, " Oh, I can have this
good thing. So, now, I can see how bad the

(24:16):
other things were." I talked a little bit about my
high school experience and how that was a little crazy
with a coach that forced me into sexual relationships that
were inappropriate. I've spoken about the hard upbringing I had
in my household as well. So I think, after all

(24:41):
of that, I figured it out. I still was valedictorian
in high school somehow. I still went to the school,
the Division 1 Ivy League that I got myself into.
I figured it out. In the back of my mind,
it's like, " Okay, it's going to be crazy. Hang on
tight. It's not going to be easy." Not to sound

(25:07):
again pessimistic, but, in the back of my mind, it's like, "
This could go so wrong, but you're going to hang
onto the driver's seat and you're going to push that
pedal and it's not going to be perfect and it
might be ugly, but you're going to figure it out."
So, I think that's it too. It's also just a
lot of things in my mind are not optional. So,
removing the option to do things makes it that you

(25:30):
have to, and I slowly discovered art in my life. Having
that is not negotiable, right? I need it in my
life to thrive in other sides. I also realized, " Well,
oh my, God, running is also apparently non- negotiable, so
I have no option but to figure out this thing."
And then, in that, it forced me into a lot

(25:51):
of spaces where I'm a very shy person and I
also have an autism diagnosis that makes social and performing
things hard for me. So, when drag became part of
my career and coaching on a microphone and coaching to
bigger crowds for a large company, I found none of

(26:14):
that in my life and I figured it out because-

You did.

... all of these things were scary for me. I remember
before coaching my first Mile High class on the microphone,
I was freaking so bad. (inaudible) same time on
stage too, people that knew me were like, " Oh, my
God, I didn't think you were going to do that. I didn't think you were going to get up
there." I think it's just these things I love doing,

(26:41):
and so I have to figure out how I can do that.

The strength, the strength. I like it. It's like you're prepared though. With
it, comes a strength of being prepared that, as you said, "
If it doesn't go well, I'll also figure that out,
and so I'm going to do it, and here we
go, white knuckle and go."

Yes. I don't mean it like don't prepare for your
runs or don't prepare for your job. I mean prepare,
but in the back of your mind... Especially with marathon
training, I tell my runners, " Your build won't be perfect.
Your race won't be perfect. Don't train perfectly because then
you'll be ready for when things kind of..." For example,

(27:28):
one day, I forgot my fuel for a long run,
it was two hours. Me and my girlfriend were walking
around the Chelsea Flea where they had bits and bobs
and I realized like, " I have a two- hour run
and we need to be at a show at a certain
time." So, I have literally two hours to do this

(27:49):
run. I don't have time to wait for traffic lights.
The two- hour run that takes two and a half
hours, I don't have time. I went in two Mile
High and I said, " I have two hours." So, I
turned on the treadmill and I'm running for two hours
and I think, " I forgot fuel," so click pause for
two seconds, I grabbed some of the mints in the

(28:10):
locker room and I'm like, " This is my fuel for the next two hours."

Oh, my god. Gross.

(inaudible) with me and it was disgusting, but I got it done-

You did.

It wasn't graceful and I might never eat a mint
again, but-

Understand-

I made that.

But you had great breath and-

Come race day, maybe if I forget, I'm like, " Okay,
I did mints, I can do anything."

Yeah, you literally will put your hand in those disgusting
bowls of sweets that people hand out, but it's fuel.
Oh, my goodness. Okay, so talking about preparing, we both
got to run the Nike After Dark in LA earlier.
When even was that? Was that March, April, sometime around that?
No, June. June.

June, yes.

Wow. It feels like so long ago.

It does.

We spoke, actually... We were on a whole trip together
that weekend and always your cheerleader, I was like, "Sof's going
to win, Sof's going to win," and you were like, "Becs, I have been
injured. I have not been training for more than 30
minutes a day," which is an amazing amount of running

(29:19):
for anyone wondering out there. That's still phenomenal to be
going out for 30 minutes a day. But again, as
I've said earlier, it's all relative to who you are
and what you're training for. For you, in that moment, it
wasn't what you would ideally want to be training ahead
of a half marathon. So, what was on your mind
as we all lined up for that multiply delayed start

(29:42):
of the race?

Oh, my. I was actually really nervous because, by then,
the longest run I'd done for a couple months leading
up to that race... I even had to pull out
of the last day of Southbound 400 because my knee
was hurting so bad. I was nervous that maybe it
was going to start hurting in the middle of that
race. The longest run I'd done was the shakeout the

(30:07):
day before actually because I didn't realize that some of
the girls were doing a longer shakeout. I was there
coaching, I was there working, so I was like, " Let
me go catch up to them and be the coach
that makes sure everyone gets back to the hotel." We
were out there, I caught up to them and I
was like, " Okay," it's an out and back and I've been

(30:29):
going out for 20 or so minutes, so, " How much
longer are they?" And then, I realized, " Oh, this is
a longer shakeout than I thought."

Yeah, they did like 8 miles, didn't they?

I think so, yeah. I was like, "Okay, all right, longest run in a couple months."
Yeah, it was that 8 miles. I was like, " All right." I
was really just nervous. I wasn't sure how my body
was going to respond at all. And also, just there is
a newer pressure that I've been, not getting used to,

(30:58):
but acknowledging this year, after winning things or after I
guess having running breakthroughs, is that people kind of know
my name now, which is new to me, and expect certain
things. I just want to live up to that, but
also just wasn't sure genuinely if I would be able

(31:20):
to. So, I was nervous. But then, like you said,
those words that my girlfriend said to me do live
in the back of my mind, and I called her,
I was like, " Danny, I'm nervous." Usually, I can kind
of block it out or remember like, " No, I've got
this. I know I've worked hard," but, this time, I

(31:43):
don't have that. The hard work is there, but not
in a training way. " I've been injured. This is different,"
I told her. She's like, " It's not different. You'll figure
it out. This is the part where it's the same
as everything else. It feels different, but you'll figure it
out," and so she's... I missed her so much on
that trip. I know it was only two days, but

(32:03):
it wasn't fun. You take us apart for two days, and
it's the end of the world. I really missed her,
so having her voice in the back of my mind
was the superpower that day. It was more just-

Well, it worked. It worked.

I was so excited at that point. I was just...
It was so cool to be there.

It was. It was vibrant.

(inaudible) was working and I was there as a coach, but
oh, my God. " What do you mean we were flown
out? What do you mean I'm here in LA for the first time
with Nike?" I also just tried to lock in like, "
Oh, my God, this is so fun," and, at the
same, my heart was really hurting because of everything happening
with ICE and just... I'm Mexican. My family's affected. People

(32:46):
around me are affected. And even if I wasn't, the
kids that are out there are affected. So just being
in a very Mexican space in LA, realizing how Mexican
it is, being there for the first time was also
a driving force for me.

It was. There was a lot of support too on
the course from the people cheering. It was so united
not just for the 18, 000 women who ran through the
night. What was it, 20- something percent? It was their
first race ever or their first half. There was just

(33:22):
so much going on. You broke the tape in 1
hour, 15 minutes, and 25 seconds. Just FYI, everyone, even with
an injury, Sof can still fly, and it wasn't a
kind course. It was rolling hills. It was kind of
an out and back. Again, it was at night, but

(33:44):
you are clearly totally used to running every single hour
possible. How did you feel when you came over that
line with that time?

The way out, I didn't want to lead. The thing
in the back of my mind was, " Don't lead, just
go with the flow," but it happened organically to where
I was really trying to not lead and there was
someone in front of me. But my pet peeve personally
is when someone is breathing behind me and I can
feel them and hear them and there's an unspoken, " I

(34:19):
want to pass you in the breath and steps of
my neighbor," or maybe I'm just hyper aware of my
surroundings like that, but I could feel that I was
doing that to this person that was in the lead.
I said, " Let me not do this. Let me run
my own race. Let me just do it. I don't know. I'm
just going to go because I feel great and I'm

(34:41):
being annoying. I could feel it." So, I took off
and I said, " Well, my one goal was to not
lead," and here I am doing the one thing that
I said I wasn't going to do because I felt
fine, I felt good. In turn, I was like, " All
right, so this is what it's going to be." But
then, the way back, oh, my God, I was not
expecting to run back and have everyone cheer the way

(35:04):
they were because I was alone. I was alone alone. The wonderful
woman on the bike, she's also an endurance coach. She
coaches children. Her name's Nadia. She's wonderful. We kind of
talked during the race where I turned to her in
awe of everyone cheering and I was like, " Oh, my
God, I'm going to cry. What is happening here?" Because
I saw you throughout the course and I saw people

(35:29):
on the trip with us and I saw my co-
workers and I saw other people that were Mexican where
I pointed to them because I could tell from their (foreign language)
, their bows and their colors they were wearing, that
I was like, " Oh, my God. Me, too." So, we were
all just a big mess of emotional happy runners, which

(35:49):
was so insane. When I say my cheeks were hurting,
Becs, the whole run back, I'm not kidding, from literally
7, less than 7, just under 7 miles of pure
joy. I was not prepared for that.

No.

(inaudible) . It was crazy.

Yeah, I can't imagine running through it as a Mexican
person as well because, to me, I'm also an immigrant
in this country, it hurts my heart. As a white
person, it's different. We're looked at, we're viewed differently, but

(36:32):
it doesn't mean I can't feel it and want to shout, "
Me, too," in a funny way of like, " I'm with
you. I stand with you." For the female world, just
to see just over 18, 000 of women running along the streets

(36:52):
that night, just doing what they want to do and
having fun was astounding. Trust me, the cheek ache, I
was dragged around it by Kira who was like, " Let's
just chat and run." I'm like, " Kira, I'm actually dying
at your chatting pace, but I'm not leaving you because
I get to run a half marathon with you." But

(37:13):
I felt the same, coming over that finish line, just
in awe of that evening. Brand withstanding, they did a
great job, but I think it was more the humans
involved in actually making it happen. All right, let's move
on to our next race, I love that we've run
these together, the absolutely, just mind- blowingly cool Bandit Grand

(37:37):
Prix in Brooklyn this year. I don't know how you
felt about going into that race, but, for me, I
do not love the shorter distances in how I perform
because it hurts quicker, but they intrigued me. This one
was nothing ever before. What was your training or mindset

(38:01):
going into this as something that was so new in
race structure compared to other things that we've all done recently?

Yeah, similar to Nike After Dark, where I said to
my girlfriend, " I'm not ready for this," I said the
same thing to her for this Bandit Grand Prix because...
I told her like, " No, no, this time for real."
I said, " I don't have any speed training in me,
none." I can't remember the last time I touched a

(38:31):
track. I don't have it in my legs. I'm not
built this kind of running. In college, I did the
3K and the 5K, but the training was so different. I
even told Daniela, I was like, " I haven't even been
doing my strides after my easy runs like I'm supposed
to. I haven't even touched speed at all," and so

(38:55):
I was also nervous for that. I said, " Okay, let
me just..." I also registered very last minute. It was
like two days before. I wasn't even on the list,
the first list, that came out because I delayed registration
so long.

Same.

It was like Sasha said, " Do you want to be
on our team," she said, " for this thing?" I hadn't
heard of it. I said, " Sure," and I forgot that
I said yes to her for this thing. We started
getting reminders and emails and I was like, " Let me
go check my email," and I saw it and I was like, "
Oh, no, that means I have to do it because I felt bad."
I was literally going to tell her, " I'm so sorry.

(39:31):
I don't think," but I was like, " No, no, no. Be a
good friend. Be a good friend," so I did it. I
went for the 5K. Again, I was also nervous like, "
This is going to feel like college. It's going to
be a track meet where we're there all day." For
the 5K, I wore my super shoes and then I
had a rock stuck in the little hole. (inaudible) .

Oh, underneath?

Yeah.

Yeah, I hate that.

A piece of pebble. So, for the whole race, I was kind
of just turning to the girls next to me being like, "
Oh, my God, the rock is stuck," but I could
tell that obviously no one's in a chatty mood because
it is a 5K. It was boiling hot at 2:00 PM.

And dry from all that dust on the gravel, all
I thought... I thought I was sick. I honestly thought there
was something wrong with me.

From the heat, yeah, it was so hot that people
were throwing up because at least... Again, speed is relative,
but it was just not a fast time. The 5K and the 3K were
just not fast.

No, because there was multiple turns too. There was like hairpin... I
think it was eight, six or eight turns in that
1K loop.

Yes, very strategic, very not time- based at all. So, I showed up and it was so
overwhelming. The music was great. You step in and you're like, "
Okay, this is cool." And then, after 30 minutes, you're like, "
Oh, my god, it's going to be like this all
day and all night." I did the 5K, and then I went home and then I left.

Same.

(Inaudible) I said I can't. And then, I grabbed my girlfriend and I said, "
This is a cool kid thing and I don't feel
adequate, so I need you there to just feel better.
I need you there, please." I said to her, I was like, "
I'm the only trans person. There is no non- binary
category. I need you there." So, I grabbed her and I said, "

(41:21):
You're coming with me and we're going to just be
each other's person for this thing." It was wonderful though
because there were people that were like, " I know you
from After Dark," or, " I know you from this. I
know you from that. I love what you stand for."
Again, it's the people, the runners themselves specifically, that really
kept me in it and kept me like, " Okay, I

(41:44):
have to, it's a non- negotiable for me to take
this win as the only trans person here. And my
girlfriend is here, so I can't embarrass myself like that
either." But, yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, you cruised through that day and
it was another honor to run a course with you
and following your dust again, but I love this. All right,
let's talk about what's coming up. You've got the Marathon
Project in Arizona in December. Oh, my gosh.

I do.

You do. Okay, it's a flat course, which is a great
thing. It's different to New York or Valencia, which you
excelled in last year. You've got paces, it's loops, verging
on what we may say is similar to kind of a
time trial for elite runners. Feel free to not share

(42:35):
because I know what it's like when people are like, "
What's your time goal?" You're like, "I don't want to tell you I'm the only person who's
allowed to know that. That's generally me," if you have
a time goal or strategy going into this super cool event.

Yeah, I do. I have a goal. Again, I used
to be that way where I couldn't... To each their
own about communicating those things. But again, I'm trying to
just keep it fun and see running as it adds
to my life. So, it is very serious for me,
but it's also not that serious. We're saying, " Ready, set,

(43:07):
go," and moving as fast as we can from point
A to point B, it's not that serious.

Awesome. Quote that, please. I need that on a T- shirt.

It's not that serious, don't worry. But at the same time, it can
be, but it's just fun. So, my time goal is
just to stick maybe near the 2
have a 2
to remind myself that I ran that four weeks after
New York. I don't easily recover from marathons as much

(43:37):
as I'd like, so I'm hoping that, on fresher legs,
I'm able to do that or at least be closer
to that. So, it's definitely just a PR, but again
stick closer to the 2

All right. I like that 2

Floating somewhere there, I'd like that at, least under 2:
30. Just to have another one under my belt, I would
like... Yeah, I'm nervous because ignorance is bliss for me
when it comes to running now. And to keep it
fun, the only way I'm able to do that is
the less I know, the ready I am to just

(44:17):
figure it out. But for this race, it feels more
real and a little more pro. I ran the women's
pro division in Valencia, but that just meant starting at
the front the way you would for a New York
Road Runners race where it's like wave AA, where it's

(44:38):
kind of mixed gender and you just go. I think
the difference between those races in this is, in New
York, I kind of just... You go for the water
cups and I had my fuel in my pocket and
I would just pull it out and I didn't overthink anything and
I was like, " Okay, Gatorade?" " Yep, I got it," or, "

(44:58):
Water?" because I missed the Gatorade, " All right, yep, take
it." But this time, we have our bottles. I don't
even know what to put in that. What do people
put... I don't know. I'm trying to just keep it like, "
Don't overthink it. If it's Gatorade, it's Gatorade, just (inaudible) -"

If it's a hydration sachet, whatever, something you like that's
going to make you feel good.

Yeah. It's easier to overthink these races where it's like, "
It's only pros or it's only..." Even lining up for
Valencia, I turned to my right and I see Alice
Wright, who I'd been following since high school when again
I was told that I shouldn't even look into college

(45:37):
running. I would follow this girl and look up to
her as a runner and look her up on YouTube
and I would just watch all the Workout Wednesday videos of her.
So, I look and I see her at the start
and I'm like... starstruck.

Distraction, it's distraction then. That's great.

Crazy. Yeah, and then we ran most of that race
together also, and it was just me pretending that I wasn't starstruck, trying
really, really hard. I felt the same actually at the
Bandit Grand Prix when Allie Kieffer was there. I saw the name
and I said, " No way," because again I would buy
Runner's World and she was in it and I would follow her journey

(46:18):
with mental health stuff as a little kid that just
wasn't a faster runner. So, just being in these spaces
where I'm constantly starstruck, it's crazy, and I feel that
way about this marathon too. So, I'm trying to just
take deep breaths and be a little less nervous because
I feel myself getting extra nervous for this race, but

(46:41):
I'm nervous for every race anyway.

Because it matters, right?

I'll figure it out. But at the start line, I'm vibrating
even if... We'll take it with stride. But yeah, that's
the goal for now.

I'm very excited for these goals for you. I can't wait to watch you. I'm going to
be tuning in, screaming at my phone or laptop or
TV or wherever I can stream it. All right, the
last couple of questions, I just want to talk a
little bit more about community activism, your personal outlook and
future for all of the younger non- binary queer youths

(47:15):
out there who are looking perhaps to you or looking
at the arenas that you function so highly in, athletics,
art. Have you got any advice that you'd like to
give to them?

Yeah. I think my main piece of advice is everything
that you do, do it your own way. If you play
a sport, do it your own way. If you're part of
a friend group, be your own kind of friend. Even
if you do drag, do it your own way because the

(47:52):
drag world is very saturated with a lot of male
drag queens and I am assigned female at birth person
that is trans and an alternative drag performer. So, even
then, I don't often fit in the spaces I'm in.
And also, just find your people I think is huge.

(48:14):
I always underestimated the power of having people that love
you for who you are. It's so cheesy, but it's
so true. And just being in a trans relationship for
me has helped me so much because my girlfriend is
also a drag and burlesque performer and, as a burlesque
performer, she's often the only trans person in bigger burlesque

(48:37):
shows, just as I tend to be the only trans
person on bigger start lines. So, having someone that can relate
to that is huge. Having my nightlife family, my chosen
family, we're all trans. Yeah, I have a trans dad,
I have a trans mom in nightlife. What that means

(48:57):
is basically that these are the people that I can
go to, people that can come to me. If something
were to happen to me, knock on wood, those are
the people that I would call, my nightlife family that
are chosen. And it's because trans or not, I love
them, they love me. I don't have to do things

(49:20):
a certain way to be loved I think is something
that I learned through them. So, I owe it to
my chosen family and my girlfriend to be able to
do this running thing, quote, unquote, " successfully" because success is
also relative, but I guess on paper, and same with
drag. So, just to do it your own way for real,

(49:42):
for real. Because if you think there isn't a way
to do something, I promise there is. If you love
something enough, you will figure it out. People will tell
you that it's not possible or it doesn't make sense.
Show them. Do it, not to be, " Just do it,"
but it's so true. Just do it. Figure it out.
Well, just figure it out. Yeah.

Wow, perfect, perfect advice. Okay, final question. If there was
one thing that you want people to remember about Sof and/
or Xana Whoria, what would it be?

Ooh. I guess that, again cheesy, you can do anything,
and you can also be trans and do anything because
I know, right now, it's very hard and I struggle with
this where I... There are days where I don't do
anything because I'm like, " Oh, my God, it's so scary
to be trans right now." Not only that, but everyone

(50:40):
I love is trans, and so it's very real in
my world and in our world. So, to have to
wake up and go to jobs where no one is
trans around me and people don't understand the gravity of
our safety, especially as a trans person of color, it's
just like feels surreal. So, you can be trans and

(51:04):
do anything. I just want to, I guess, follow my
dreams in a way where other trans people can be like, "
This is a person that figured it out, and I
will also figure it out." Because if anyone is resilient,
I promise you it's trans people are some of the
most resilient people you'll ever meet. Yeah, the last thing

(51:27):
I want people to remember is protect trans women, always,
always, always.

Yes, yes. Louder for the people at the back, louder
for the people who don't want to hear. Sof, it is
always an honor to see you, to talk to you,
and it's such an honor to toe all the lines
with you. I wish you the most incredible run in
Arizona and the training leading up to it. I know you've

(51:55):
got tons of athletes who are going to be heading
into the TCS New York City Marathon this year and I'm sure
all the other four majors that are about to kick
off. So, thank you for all you do for the running community,
for the trans community, and for just general humanity. So,
keep shining bright, my friend.

Thank you for talking to me. I know you're a
mom and I know you're baby's in great hands, so
it seems a lot to speak to you. Thank you
so much. Thanks for having me.

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(52:44):
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Jen Curtis's running story spans big city marathons and long-
distance adventures, from asphalt races to multi- day ultra events.
She's run 24 marathons. And then, earlier this year, she
took on the Speed Project, a 300- mile race from
Los Angeles to Las Vegas. Off the race course, Jen

(53:18):
supports mental health awareness through her family's nonprofit 4TeamBrock. Where
her next challenge is is a 24- hour run/ walk in
her hometown of Buffalo. Today, she joins us to talk
about the miles, the meaning, and what keeps her coming back.

Meb Keflezighi (53:33):
Jen, welcome to Set the Pace podcast. How's it going today?

Jen Curtis (53:36):
It's going great. Pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Thanks for joining us. So, let's get to it. When
you move back to New York in 2016, why was
the signing up for the NYRR races one of the
first things on your list?

Jen Curtis (53:50):
It was a dream of mine to always run New
York City Marathon. As soon as I made plans to
move back to New York, I was like, " I'm going
to run the marathon," became a member of NYRR, did
the 9+1 and was able to run it in 2017. I've
lived in New York ever since. Definitely, I was able

(54:13):
to achieve one of those dreams.

So, you have run 24 marathons. Do you remember what
it felt like when you lined up for the first time?

Jen Curtis (54:22):
I do. It was in Rome. It was when I
was in grad school in Italy. I did not prepare.
I ran a half marathon before in Paris when I
studied abroad there, but I was young, I was 22,
I think, or 23. Sometimes, it's one of the best

(54:47):
ways to try something new is you just kind of
go in blind. I don't recommend it for everybody. But
for me, just finishing was the goal, and I ended
up doing that. It's a hard race. You're on cobblestones
for some of it, but I think I just knew
this was going to be hard and I ended up

(55:12):
being able to do that hard thing.

It is a hard thing. I did my first one at
the TCS New York City Marathon 2002. I said, " Never
again," but the feeling somehow you come back and keep
doing it. You've done 24, I've done 26, but there's always a motivation. Your brother
has been an inspiration for you ultra running. Can you
share what he means on your running journey and how
his story drives you in those long races?

Jen Curtis (55:37):
Yeah, happy to, always happy to talk about my brother.
My brother Brock, younger by six years, he tragically passed
due to struggles with his mental health, and that was
now five years ago. Before he passed, I was able
to run a virtual marathon with him, his first, in

(55:58):
our neighborhood in Buffalo, and it was something I always
cherish and think about a lot, so he is always
part of my runs. He was an athlete. So, through
our nonprofit 4TeamBrock, it's to promote mental health, and a
big part of that is movement. When I run... Marathons

(56:21):
are now newly ultras. It's always connecting that to the
why and I think, when you talk about mental health,
it always helps somebody, even if it helps one person. To
think about what resources you might want to take advantage
of or just having a conversation, it helps move that

(56:41):
mission forward.

Pretty incredible, and I think he'd be smiling down and
then remember him on all those ultra marathons or marathons.
So, ultras and marathon demand a very different mental approach.
How does your mindset change when you are running for 24
hours and more compared to a single morning in the marathon?

Jen Curtis (57:02):
Yeah, I think long distance is very freeing. I did
the 1- mile BKLYN MILE a couple weeks ago and
I've done the 5th Ave Mile that NYRR does, and that's stressful.
It's fast. A lot of people are watching. But the longer

(57:22):
time on feet, a way I like to look at
it, it's of course challenging. You have to have a
lot of mental stamina to get through those long days.
But when I did the Speed Project, I pretty much
did 50 miles a day for five and a half
days, and every day was a new day. I know
you talk a lot about not resting on your laurels.

(57:45):
I love this quote Phil Jackson says. It's, " Success is
only in the moment that you achieve it. You have
to do it again." So, when I did those 50
miles a day, I never thought about the day before.
I always was in the moment, " This is what I
need to do. This is what I need to accomplish," and I think
that really helps mentally when you have these long miles.

(58:08):
It's like just being in the moment. Think about the
next snack break. I think a lot about lunch like, "
What am I going to eat?" The longer you run, the
more fuel you'll need and that's, to me, very... it
motivates me.

I think probably running ultras, you will have an appetite.
But for me, mind over body at the same time.
You got to forget what has happened and then focus
on what's ahead and be in the moment. When you're
getting ready for a Javelina Jundred, what drives you to try 100-
mile race and what's your training like for something that long?

Jen Curtis (58:43):
Yeah, Javelina I think is going to be the hardest
thing I have done. I think it's going to be
harder than the Speed Project because, when I did the
Speed Project, I got to sleep for five hours every
night. Javelina, 100, which is in Arizona, it's going to
be 24 hours of running and it's in a lot

(59:03):
of heat. It's actually five loops of 20 miles each
and it's going to be thinking about it one lap
at a time and... Yeah, I think it's going to be a good
test for me too to see, if I like it,

(59:24):
then I might continue this route. If it doesn't go
well and I hate it, I might have to stick
to my bougie asphalt marathons, but I'm going to at
least try.

You're going to try and you're going to do great.
You do great work on the course on the asphalt or after the course
as well. As your family nonprofit 4TeamBrock work to support
people with the mental health or mental illness, how does
upcoming 24- hour run/ walk connect to that mission?

Jen Curtis (59:54):
Yeah, I'm really excited for it. My mom's hosting it.
It's going to be in our local high school, Clarence, New
York, where I went, where Brock went, where my other
two siblings all attended. I do plan to run/ walk
the entire thing. It's going to be great training for Javelina.
However, people are invited to come to walk a mile.

(01:00:18):
There are going to be resources for mental health. There'll
be games, there'll be yoga, food, all sorts of things,
and there is a virtual opportunity too for people who
aren't based in Buffalo. I have a lot of friends
here in New York who plan to attend virtually. It's
about awareness. We partner a lot with NAMI, which I
know NYRR does too, National Alliance on Mental Illness. And

(01:00:43):
what's important too is it's at a high school and that's
where a lot of mental health issues take place for
the first time. And then, also you, can learn this
information. Then, it can carry with you in college, which
there's even more issues start coming up when you're in
your 20 to 24 age group. It's a way to
bring community together, promote mental health, and get some miles in.

Meb Keflezighi (01:01:06):
Nicely done, Jen. Thanks for being with us and as you... As I said earlier, it's all about
movement, whether it's 1 mile or 100 miles and having
a cause. Definitely, 4TeamBrock, you got that going and your
family. So, great job and congratulations and good luck.

Becs Gentry (01:01:22):
Thank you for joining us, Jen, and being a member
of New York Road Runners. Now, to the final part of
the show, our Meb Minute, with a special TCS New York
City Marathon by the miles mental health check- in.

Meb Keflezighi (01:01:33):
Hey, everyone. It's Meb Minute, Mental Health During Marathon Training.
If you have been following along the mile by mile
countdown to the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon, you know that
last week we made the past halfway point, so I
thought this would be a good time to take a break and

(01:01:54):
focus on mental strength while training for 26. 2 miles.
Running is hard. Marathon is extremely hard. But what you
can control, things as mental is... 90% is physical, 10%
mental and training. But on race day, it's going to
switch. What I would like for you to do at
this point is to visualize the success that you want

(01:02:17):
to achieve. Think about the finish line. Even though only
you're running 13, 15- miles run, you got to put yourself
on the New York City Marathon course. You have to
be able to just work hard, choose the right challenges.
At this point, what are your goals? What are those
meaning for the ABC? For me, it was to win.

(01:02:37):
For you, it might be personal best. Sometimes, things don't always
go your way, but keep a journal. Set your goals
and be able to write them down, whether it's goals,
running goals, or your mental toughness that's going on. When
you do that, it helps to put it in writing and
helps you set new goals, but also do the small things.
You got to do your weekly, monthly, and couple months

(01:03:02):
of the finish line goals. You have to set those goals.
Do the small things that make a big difference. As long you can do
that, if the mind is right, the body's right, the
spirit is right, and you're going to do amazing things. So, keep up
the good work no matter what you are dealing with.
We all go through struggles and challenges. Sometimes, even as
Olympians, we do struggles. If you do all the preparation

(01:03:23):
right now, come to the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon on November 2nd.
It's like a graduation. You're going to be celebrating all 26.
2 miles. Now, visualize yourself with all the hard work
mentally and then spiritually and physically on race day, November
2nd. It's going to be awesome. Great results.

Becs Gentry (01:03:42):
That does it for another episode of Set the Pace.
Thank you to all of today's guests, Sof Camacho and
Jen Curtis. If you like this episode, please do go
ahead, subscribe, rate, or leave a comment for the show
on whatever platform you're listening on. This not only helps
us, but it helps others find out about the show
too. Thanks for listening. Take care.

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