“Wicked” Star Jordan Litz Prepares for His First TCS New York City Marathon

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan Litz (00:00):
So my plan is to run the marathon and do
the shows, and anybody that has worked with me over
the past five years in Wicked knows that I never
call out of shows unless I am on my deathbed.

Rob Simmelkjaer (00:19):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official
podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton. I'm
your host Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road
Runners, and I am flying solo today. Becs is away,
so we'll miss her this week. Look forward to catching
up with her next week. Well, for a lot of
people, this past weekend was all about the BMW Berlin

(00:42):
Marathon. It was the 51st edition of that race and
it featured more than 54,000 finishers, including a lot of
New York Road Runners members. And a number of New
York Road Runners Set the Pace guests in the past,
including Patina Miller, who ran with New York Road Runners
Team for Kids. And Becs's partner, Austin, who was one

(01:04):
of a few hundred runners to earn their sixth star
from the Abbott World Marathon Majors this past week. And
that's why I'm solo because Becs was in Berlin. They're
still making their way back from Germany. It was great,
by the way, to see that moment on Becs's Instagram. It
was beautiful. They exchanged a long hug and you could
see how much it meant for Austin to get that

(01:26):
sixth star medal. We were so thrilled, by the way,
to help Austin get in. You might remember an episode
some time back when we told Austin that we were
using one of our entries for Austin to have that
opportunity and he did a great job, so that was
terrific. Congratulations to him, to Patina, to all of our
TFK runners and all of our New York Road Runners

(01:49):
members over in Berlin. Listen, I know that it was
a hot day over there. I was getting messages from
people all through the weekend, all concerned about the weather.
Looks like it got up to about 80 degrees on
Sunday in Berlin, and that is not easy. It sounds
like the humidity was up as well. So congratulations to

(02:11):
everybody who managed to get to the finish line over
there in Berlin. That is not easy to run in
those conditions. And so, if it wasn't a PR, I
know a lot of people go to Berlin hoping to
run that fast time because it's flat, but those conditions
can definitely counteract the flatness of the course. So congratulations
to everybody who finished in Berlin and I hope you guys

(02:34):
had a great experience over there, as I did last
year for the 50th Berlin Marathon. On the elite side,
it was a Swiss sweep in the wheelchair division. Marcel
Hug won with a time of 1:21
the women's wheelchair side, 1

(02:54):
Kenyan sweep in the open division. Sebastian Sawe with time
of 2:02
it was Rosemary Wanjiru with a time of 2:21
to win the women's open division in Berlin. Well, back
here in New York City, we are officially in fall.
And fall marathon season is in full swing as everybody

(03:19):
starts to gear up for the TCS New York City
Marathon. We had our 18- mile training run in Central
Park on Sunday. Over 4, 000 runners took on the
hills of Central Park in a long run ahead of
a lot of people's fall marathons, including my own by
the way. I ran that training run for the first

(03:39):
time since 2013, which is the last time I ran
the TCS New York City Marathon. And man, oh man,
let me tell you, that is no joke going around
Central Park three times, up Harlem Hill three times. I
just don't know that I ever will do that again.

(04:00):
That was really an incredibly difficult run. But the good news
was, unlike in Berlin, the weather was absolutely perfect for
all of the runners. I was so glad to see that.
We had a really a picture- perfect morning. I actually
felt like the weather got better as the morning went
on. A little breeze picked up and it just felt

(04:21):
terrific. I ran four miles before, so a total of
22. I'll talk about that in a second. The winners
of that, and it's funny to talk about winners for
a training room, but we had some folks go out
who ran very, very quickly. Danqing Liu on the men's
side, 1:48

(04:41):
And Alissa Kolarik on the women's side, 1:59
great times there. But yes, for so many people, this
was really all about training for their fall marathons. Almost
everybody, of course, training for New York there, but we
had a number of Chicago folks getting ready as well.
That race was three weeks out from Chicago and it

(05:02):
was the perfect spot for me to do my last
really long run. I'm now officially into the taper mode
and my long runs will be getting shorter the next
couple of weeks. I don't have Becs, so I can't really
bounce off of her much of what happened for me.
But I did send her my day and I actually
felt really good about it. I ran just about 15

(05:23):
seconds on average over my goal marathon pace for that
full 22- mile run. I ran about 11 miles inside
the training run at marathon pace and considering the hills
in Central Park and the flatness of Chicago, I felt
really good coming out of that. I think that's one
of the things that in New York we really have

(05:44):
going for us. Whether we're running New York and you
need those hills to train for the hills of the
TCS New York City Marathon, Central Park is really the
perfect place to train for our marathon here in New
York because of the hills and the preparation you've got
to do. And as I said, when I spoke at
the starting line, for someone like me who's running Chicago,

(06:04):
a very flat course, I'm hoping that running Harlem Hill
and Cat Hill and the Three Sisters three times this
weekend is going to make Chicago feel downhill. I really
hope that that hill training is going to help me
feel like I'm running with a wind at my back
in Chicago. So we'll see how it goes, but it's

(06:25):
really a great thing for our running community here in
New York to have that opportunity to train not only
in Central Park with those hills, but all the support
that you've got when you run in an event like
that. The fluid stations, the Maurten Gel station that we
had as well. So much support out there both in
terms of the things you need as well as just the

(06:46):
other runners pulling for each other, the staff, the volunteers
with the cowbells all out there. There's no better way
to do a long run than in the New York
Road Runners TCS New York City Marathon training series. So
congrats to everybody who ran this weekend here in New
York. Coming up in just a moment on Set the Pace,
we have the fastest man on Broadway joining the show,

(07:07):
Jordan Litz, who's currently starring in Wicked on Broadway, earned
that title earlier this month, breaking the tape in the
inaugural Broadway Mile at the New Balance 5th Avenue Mile.
He'll be on in just a few minutes to talk
about his next role as a marathoner in the 2025 TCS
New York City Marathon. Then a little later on in
this show, Harlem Run's Torian Wiggins will be Meb's guest

(07:30):
on today's member moment. And then finally, Meb will continue
his mile by mile countdown to the TCS New York
City Marathon with miles 16, 17, and 18. Those are some challenging
miles. You're getting up into the Bronx during that stretch,
I believe. And so you got to get through those miles to

(07:51):
get back down through Harlem into 5th Avenue and of
course those final miles in the park. So definitely want
to hear Meb's advice on taking on those miles as well.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
As you head into peak training. Don't let nutrition slow
you down. Let CookUnity's award- winning chefs fuel your run
with endurance- boosting dishes hand- picked by a sports dietician.
Every meal is delivered to your door and ready to
eat in two minutes or less. Head to cookunity. com/
NYRR and use the code marathonmeals to get 50% off

(08:25):
your first week.

Jordan Litz is a Broadway actor and singer currently starring
as Fiyero in Wicked. He's a California native and a
former competitive swimmer, and he's built a career on stage
with performances in national tours as well as regional productions
before he made his big Broadway debut. Now off the
stage, he's still a passionate athlete who recently took first

(08:47):
place in the first- ever Broadway Mile at the New
Balance 5th Avenue Mile. This November, he'll step into an
entirely new spotlight running his first- ever marathon at the
2025 TCS New York City Marathon. Jordan, we've had some challenges
technically, but we've got you back on. Thank you so
much for joining us on Set the Pace. We appreciate it.

Dude, thanks for your patience. We're going to make it
happen. It's going to be a great chat.

I want to start with your run on 5th Avenue
and what that was like for you. It was such
a fun event, this Broadway Mile that we pulled together,
these amazing actors and people from behind the scenes, executives
from shows and theaters from around the city. You guys
raised $ 15,000 for a great cause, Broadway Cares, Actors Equity

(09:35):
Fights AIDS. So what was that like for you both
to get to compete at that distance of a mile
and also to be around so many of your colleagues
and people in that amazing New York City theater community?

Just to be able to get to be a part
of the 5th Avenue Mile was really special for me.
I've watched that race now for several years. It's been
one that I've been excited to be a part of.
I was actually signed up to run the race even
before the Broadway Mile became a thing. I was already
going to run it this year, and then New York Road

(10:10):
Runners and the Broadway League and Broadway Cares all came
together and through this Broadway Mile thing, which made it
just even more special. And then to get to tap
into the competitive background, that side of my life was
also really special. So it was an incredible day.

Yeah. And obviously, very different swimming and running. But at
that distance of a mile, did it feel similar to
you? What kind of distances did you swim when you
were competing in the pool and how did it feel
maybe similar or different competing at that one mile running distance?

It was relatively similar. That's about as far as I
would go distance- wise and time- wise. I went to
Olympic trials in both the breaststrokes 100, breaststroke 200, breaststroke 200 IM, 400
IM. So the longest race I did was about four
minutes. So to get up and do a little extra,

(11:07):
an extra minute, is still within the range of my
ability. But three hours, I don't know. We'll see how
that goes on November 2nd.

Yeah. So that is a very different kettle of fish,
if you will. What inspire you to sign up for
your first marathon?

There were several things. I was looking for a new
outlet to challenge myself. So running seemed like the natural
progression from swimming. It's an aerobic sport and it's an
accessible sport. All you need is a pair of shoes
and a road and you're good to go. You don't

(11:44):
need any fancy things. You don't need a pool, you
don't need any technical equipment. You can literally just go
out and do it. If there's a sidewalk, you can
run. So that was really appealing to me. Then the
other thing, round about 2022 in the fall, Wicked was
in Chicago. I was on the national tour with Wicked
at that point, and we happened to be in Chicago

(12:06):
and the Chicago Marathon took place while we were there.
And so I got to walk out of my apartment
that I was staying in and be able to see
those elite athletes and everybody else sprinting down the road.
And that really inspired me. Then obviously Kipchoge had just
broken the world record, I think, in Berlin around then,

(12:29):
so I became aware of him. And I fell in
love with his work ethic, and his personality, and who
he was, and what he's done for the sport, and
that really inspired me to want to get out on
the road. So it was a few combinations of things, but it's
been a blast.

It's amazing. And that's a fun tie into what we got
going on the Chicago Marathon coming up in a couple of
weeks, which by the way, I'm running, Jordan, so-

You are?

... it'll be my first time running Chicago. Yep. Very excited about
that. We've been talking-

Wait, so-

... about that on the podcast the last few months.

... how many of the majors will this be for
you now?

That'll be my fourth.

Which ones are you missing?

I will still after this need Boston and London. So
my goal is to qualify for Boston in Chicago. That's
the hope. We'll see how that goes. We'll need a
good weather day.

So what do you need? A 255? What do you
need for that?

Oh, you're so kind. I'm a little older than you
think I am. So I actually, in my current age group,
which I'm aging up to another age group actually for
the 2027 Boston Marathon, I need a 330 and I
ran a 327 in Berlin, but-

Oh, come on.

... minus the buffer and everything, I'll probably need to
shave a few minutes off of that, so we'll see.
But hey, if I get a good weather day, I
think I got a shot, I think I got a shot.

Well, from what I remember when I was there in
Chicago, obviously I didn't run it, but the weather felt
perfect to me. So hopefully you get another day like that.

That's what we're talking about, and hopefully you get a
day like that on November 2nd. It makes such a
difference to folks when they get a good weather day.
I've seen both sides of it. We had a beautiful
day last year in New York. The year before that,
not so much. So it's just all about catching that
right weather and I'm obviously hoping that you and everybody gets

(14:18):
a great day. How's the training been going? So we
know you ran the mile for 5th Avenue, and that's
obviously a little sprint compared to a marathon, the training.
How has it all been going and how has it
been balancing your marathon training with acting in Wicked on Broadway?

I'll not lie to you. It is really hard. When
I started, this is going to sound crazy, but I
did a 26- week training block.

Wow.

And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I
kind of just started running this year, to be honest.
I had dabbled in it, threw in a couple of
runs within my normal training regiment here and there from
2023 up until the start of this year. And then
I ran in March or April, and that is when

(15:10):
I kind of started to take running more seriously. And
so I don't have a lot of miles on my
legs. I have a lot of miles on my shoulders
from swimming. But as far as being able to take
the beating of what a training for a marathon entails, I
wanted to start really, really slow and build up to
those high 40- mile weeks. So those first couple of

(15:34):
weeks were 15 to 20 miles just kind of getting used
to the pounding and incorporating it into my normal lifestyle.
So to start, I was running five days a week
and lifting two days a week. And about 13 weeks
into the block, I was not doing well. I was

(15:55):
not surviving the runs, I was hitting all of my
paces, but the effort to get there was not what
I wanted it to be. So I dropped that to
four runs a week and still lifted twice, and then
I cut caffeine, I cut artificial sugars, and anything that
was going to upset my stomach because that's also been
a large challenge for me is figuring out the gut

(16:18):
training aspect of it. And ever since then, it has
been smooth sailing. The training has been fun. It's been
challenging, but not unattainable. So yeah, 26- week training block.
But I feel like it's going to pay off because I just did
a 20 miler last Saturday before two shows and felt great.

Wow. First of all, thank you for sharing all that.
I love that story and it really does come down
to finding what works for you and everybody's going to
have something that's going to work for them. A number
of runs a week mileage, it has to balance that
with the rest of your life and what your preexisting

(17:02):
running experience was. So it makes sense to me actually
that you would've thought about a 26- week block when
you really hadn't been running. I mean, people ask me,
okay, if I don't run, what do you think is
a good amount of time to train for a marathon? I
think half a year makes a lot of sense because
you need that gradual build up to keep from getting
hurt. And so you did that, plus you took a

(17:23):
little bit of load off by cutting that one day
a week and it seems like it's working for you,
which is fantastic.

Yeah, it really is. Well, and then the other thing
that I incorporated was I'm doing eight Broadway shows a
week, 52 weeks a year. So I figured it was
probably okay if I dropped off one day of running
and counted those eight Broadway shows as an extra day
of running or an easy day of running. So I

(17:51):
felt like, yeah, that kind of makes sense and I
won't be too hard on myself for cutting that day.

I think that is really interesting. Really it's the breath work,
right? Because you're out there singing, the amount of breath
control and stamina that you need. Especially I got to
imagine on those days where you're doing a matinee and
then a show at night, that's some serious stamina. Do
you find that there really is that crossover between performing

(18:19):
and the stamina endurance that that takes and what you do
out on the road?

Absolutely, dude. Absolutely. I've had so many... Well, I won't
name names, but I've had Fiyero's say that Dancing Through
Life, Fiyero's big number, is taxing and they're out of
breath by the time they get to this big note
that you're on the statue holding this big long note.

(18:45):
And because of the swimming background and now because of
all of this running that I've been doing, I can
honestly say that that has never been something that has
even crossed my mind being out of breath or having
my heart rate spike too high. Every now and then
I'll wear my watch in rehearsal just because I'm curious like, "

(19:08):
Hey, how hard am I working during Dancing Through Life?
I'd be curious to know what's my max heart rate
here." And my max heart rate's 119 during Dancing Through
Life. So I think because of all of that aerobic
training, it has just made it so simple and so
comfortable to survive the rigors of eight shows a week.

That's so interesting. A 119 is a very manageable number if you're
trying to get through and your voice has to stay
even, right? The audience can't know-

For sure.

... that you're working that hard, so you've got to be
at a point where you're working, but super comfortable.

Well, yeah, and Fiyero's philosophy of life is Dancing Through
Life. Everything should be cool. It should be smooth. You're
gliding through life, so it has to seem like it's
easy and comfortable for him. So if you're up there
and you're huffing and puffing through the song, the audience
is not going to believe anything you say.

I love it. This is a, it's great, great behind the scenes of
what it's like to perform and run at the same
time. I'm sure you heard the stories about Taylor Swift
running on a treadmill, and performing, rehearsing her songs for
her tour while running on a treadmill. So you really
see how that VO2 max really carries over to live performance.

I actually had not heard that before. She practiced her
songs on the treadmill?

Yeah. She would get on a treadmill, and actually I
think she was either lightly running or at least fast
walking, and she would try to get through her whole
set list on a treadmill. And that was part of
her preparation for her big Eras Tour. So yeah, you're
not alone in seeing that connection.

Interesting, interesting. Yeah, I can see that for sure. I
think I'd probably have to walk at an incline or
something like that because I don't know that the bouncing
of running would be all that conducive to helping me
figure out how to sing Dancing Through Life in a
healthy way. But walking at an incline I think works.

I love it. It's so interesting. So tell us about
your journey as an actor. How did it start? When
did you realize that the stage was the place for
you, and how did you manage that journey from California
to Broadway?

Well, I failed as an athlete and I had to
find something else that I liked to do and that I had a skill
for. Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, I went to Olympic
trials in 2012, swam the IMs and breaststrokes. And unfortunately, Michael
Phelps and Ryan Lochte went to those trials as well, and-

They were pretty good, pretty tough competition.

They're pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're the greatest
in history. If Michael Phelps doesn't exist, Ryan Lochte is
the new Michael Phelps. So those guys were just behemoths
in the sport of swimming. And look, I wasn't even
close to them anyway, so it was either wait around
four more years and try again in 2016 for Rio

(22:11):
or move on with your life. And I decided to
move on with my life and it was the right
choice because those guys didn't retire anyway, and they came
back. So I decided to go back to school. I
studied vocal performance for maybe a year or so in
school. And in the process, as part of the curriculum,
I had to do a musical. And I didn't want

(22:32):
to do it. I wasn't interested. I wanted to be a
session vocalist in the studio and record for pop artists,
and jazz artists, and things like that as maybe a
backup vocalist, but I fell in love with it. I
was the first person to have all of my notes
and words memorized. I showed up to rehearsal every single

(22:54):
day so prepared because I was so excited about this
prospect of marrying acting with singing and movement and all of
that. I became obsessed in the way that all great
athletes become obsessed with their sport. And so after that
production of Sound of Music, I did a couple of

(23:15):
smaller community theater/ regional productions just to make sure that,
yeah, I have a love for it, but do I
actually have the skill set to take this and make
it something professional? And because there are two very distinct
things. I love running. I'm not going to go compete
with Conor Mantz in a marathon to qualify for Olympics

(23:37):
or be a professional. So I wanted to make sure
that I knew that I had that ability to... If
I wanted to go to new or somewhere else and
be a professional performer that I could do it. And
fortunately, the feedback was really, really positive. So I ended
up going to work at Disney World for three and
a half years. The plan was three months. I ended

(23:59):
up staying there for three and a half years because
I was having so much fun. I actually met my
wife there who was a Disney princess at the time,
and so we met working at Disney World together and
bonded over our desire to move to New York and
conquer that-

What roles did you have, what were you cast as at Disney World?

People are always like, " Ah, he was a prince. He
was a prince." I actually was never a prince. I
did the singing show. So I was a Dapper Dan,
the barbershop quartet on Main Street. I did this group
called The Voices of Liberty, which is an a cappella
group in Epcot. I also did Gaston at the Beauty
and the Beast musical. And several other things. I recorded

(24:41):
for parades and fireworks shows and all of that. It was
a dream. I would go back in a heartbeat. I
loved it there. And some of my best friends to
this day still work for Disney. But yeah, my wife
and I met there and we moved up to New
York together and not, I want to say five months
after working in New York, I got cast in the National

(25:03):
Tour of Wicked. And five, six years later, I'm now
the longest running Fiyero in Broadway history. So it's been a-

Wow.

... crazy, crazy journey, but one that I wouldn't trade
for anything.

Wow, what a great journey.

I loved it.

A life of a performer is so interesting. It's so
different and fascinating. You have to be a bit of
a rarity. I mean, someone who competed at an Olympic
trials for any sport to then be a Broadway performer.
Do you know of anybody else who was an athlete
at that level who has been on Broadway as well?

I can only think of one. His name is Cody
Simpson. He is a huge pop star in Australia. He
was also growing up a stellar swimmer until 15, 16 years
old, and then he became wildly famous as a pop
star. So he quit swimming to become a pop star.

(26:04):
He does all of that. And then he came over here
and he was in a production of, I think he
was Dimitri and Anastasia for maybe six months to a
year or something like that. After that was all over,
he said, " You know what? I miss swimming. I want
to do that again." And he jumped back into swimming
and he went to Olympic trials for Australia. He came

(26:24):
up short, I want to say he was 4th or 5th
in the 100 fly. So he came up short to
that top two to make it to the Olympics. But
still that's unbelievable to all of a sudden just say, "
Ah, I'm going to stop performing for a little while
and just tackle swimming." And within a year and a
half or two years, he already jumped to the ranks

(26:46):
and almost made-

Wow.

... the Olympics for Australia. And Australia is one of
the best swimming countries in the world.

Always. It's always the US and Australia going head-to-head-

Exactly.

... in the pool at the Olympics.

Yeah, exactly. So I think he's the only one that
I can think of that was at a very, very
elite level in athletics and also a performer at an
elite level.

Wow. It's incredible. The people with that kind of combination
of talents do not grow on trees. So all I
can say is it's more than a little impressive. And
I have a feeling you're going to show another impressive
performance on November 2nd. So I'm curious about Wicked and
what it's been like as the longest running Fiyero you

(27:30):
said on Broadway and your castmates. What's it been like to
watch the movie and how the movie has succeeded? I'm
really curious as a stage performer, what it was like
when that movie came out and you saw the success
and the cultural impact that the movie ended up having
as well.

There has been no better time to be a part of Wicked
than this last three years or so. I was fortunate
enough to be cast in the 20th anniversary cast of
Wicked, and this was back in 2023. The show opened
October 30th, 2003. In that process that I got to do

(28:13):
a lot of unbelievably cool things surrounding the 20th anniversary.
And then the following year, the first movie came out,
which took this unbelievable musical phenomenon to a worldwide stage.
There had already been productions in Japan, and Korea, and
Germany, and all over South America, and it was a

(28:36):
worldwide phenomenon before. But now it was a household name.
Everybody throughout the entire world knew what Wicked was and
had the access to be able to watch it. So
our ticket sales went through the roof. Wicked is always
sold out, but the prices were just astronomical.

Wow.

People were clamoring to get in and see our show,
because the part one of the movie was just the
first act. So you could come and see ours and
know what happens in the end. So we had so many
first time people that were coming to see Wicked for
the very first time. I got to meet people at
the stage door after all the shows, and they were

(29:16):
so excited to know what happens and get to meet
us. And it's the best time to be a part
of Wicked. And now with part two coming out somewhere,
I want to say, a couple weeks after I run
the marathon, I'm sure that there will be a new resurgence
of people wanting to come and see the show again.

Yeah, it's just turned into an unbelievable franchise, if you
will. It started on Broadway and now to see what
it's doing in theaters on the movie side is incredible.
Did you ever get a chance to hang out with
Jonathan Bailey, or Ariana Grande, or Cynthia Erivo? Was there
a stage and a movie cast kind of get together

(29:56):
or maybe give Jonathan Bailey some tips on how to
play Prince Fiyero?

So first off, I would never give that guy tips.
He killed it. He was so good, man. It's obviously
a different medium. The song was in a different key. They
had different scenes. It felt like somebody running a marathon
in Alphaflys and somebody running a marathon barefoot. It's just

(30:22):
like a completely different kind of feel. But we had
a screening for the original Broadway cast, the current Broadway
cast, and a bunch of the movie cast and people
involved with the movie maybe a month before the first
movie came out. So we all got to sit in
a room at the Director's Guild of America Theater somewhere,

(30:45):
I want to say, on 57th Street. And we all
got to watch the movie together. And it was this
unreal experience. It was almost like watching live theater. There
were standing ovations after every song. The energy in the
room I can't even describe to you. And that's the
only time that I've seen Wicked the movie, because the

(31:05):
experience was so amazing that I don't want to go
back and watch it again because I feel like I'll
watch it with a more critical eye this time around.
And I want to leave it in my memory as
this perfect night, this perfect experience. But yeah, Jon Chu
was there. I got to have a lovely 25, 30- minute
conversation, Jon Chu's the director of the movie, with him.

(31:26):
And he is a Wicked nerd, man. He wanted to
talk about nothing but Wicked, and it made me so
excited for part two of the movie because I could
tell how much he truly cares about this story and
doing it justice. I didn't get to meet Ariana, I
didn't get to meet Cynthia, but I know that a
lot of the witches did because they have the special

(31:49):
green and pink camaraderie that is so unique within our
community. And I don't think Jonathan Bailey was there, but maybe
for the part two screening, we will get a chance
to bump into each other.

That's really cool. What a great story of having a
chance to watch that with those two casts together. Very,
very cool. And yeah, your point is so interesting. I
mean, obviously film is such a completely different process and
it really is. If you got to run the marathon
broken up one mile at a time, that's kind of
what it's like when you-

Oh, exactly, dude.

Yeah. You're not doing it in one fell swoop when
you put a movie together.

Well, and doing it, you got to think of it
like running the marathon on a track indoors with very
controlled settings. It's still impressive. It's just a different kind
of thing. You're not singing it live, it's edited. There's

(32:50):
a lot of post- production that goes into it that
changes the feel of it.

Yeah, no doubt about it. It's a fascinating parallel. So
what are your goals when you show up to the
starting line in Staten Island on November 2nd? Do you
have a time goal in mind? Is it just to
finish? What are you hoping to do that day?

Am I crazy for wanting to try to run as
close to three as possible?

Ooh, three hours. I love it. That is a legit
goal for a first time marathoner. But with your athletic
pedigree, I don't think it's crazy. I don't know much
about how your training has been. What have your mile
splits been in your long runs?

Well, so I'm trying to take my long runs conversational,
which is I've been using Runna. Shout- out Runna. It's
unbelievable. It's been an unbelievable source of information and inspiration
because I'm training completely alone. I think I've had maybe

(33:57):
a couple people join me on a couple 6- mile, 7-
mile easy runs, but the majority of my training has
been completely solo. It's been fine. My 20- mile run
last week was like, I think I was 856 pace
for 20 miles with average heart rate of 124. So
it was really, really cozy, felt nice. I've got a 20-

(34:20):
mile progressive run in a couple of weeks, and that will
be really, really telling for me on whether or not
three hours is going to be possible.

Yeah, because Runna will push you to hit some time
goals in some of those long runs. They'll ask you
to hold a fast pace for a good number of
miles just to see if you can do it. So
you will learn some things. And it's interesting, I mentioned
that I'm running Chicago, so a big topic of conversation

(34:51):
between me and Becs Gentry, who's normally my co- host,
has been how hard to go at those long runs.
And this is my 5th marathon. I've normally done exactly
what you do, keep it very conversational, and a lot
of my long runs have been that way. But Becs
has pushed me to push myself a little harder in
some of these long runs. So I ran a half

(35:12):
marathon Labor Day weekend, and I ran 20 miles that
day, but the half I ran at marathon pace. And
I ran 22 this past weekend. A good chunk of
it was in the 18- mile training run that we
have at Road Runners, and I ran about 11 of that
at my marathon pace. So I trying to just establish in
my mind that, all right, I can hold this pace

(35:35):
for a while so that I have the confidence when
I come out in Chicago to know I can do
it for a sustained period. So Runna will push you
to do that as well. And you'll learn a lot
between now and the marathon, I'm sure.

Yeah, exactly. I did the Bronx 10 Miler a couple of
weeks or a week ago, and my long run for
that day was 15 miles, but 10 miles at marathon
pace, so that worked out perfectly. I was able to
get out on the road, do a couple mile warmup,
and then do the race. And Runna had me at seven-

(36:09):
minute miles for a projected 303 or something like that,
and it felt super cozy. So I think-

That's awesome.

... maybe if the weather is right and the conditions
are good and I hit my taper just right, who
knows? Maybe I can drop that down to a 652 pace
and yeah, I have no idea what I'm capable of.

It's going to be fun to see what happens. So
everybody out there listening, we're all going to track you right
now. Let's see. We can put your name in the
app as soon as it's ready, and I want to
see how it goes. And I'll be there at the
finish line to see you come across as well. But
that's really an awesome goal. And listen, it's your first
one, so no matter what happens, you're going to feel

(36:56):
great when it's over and you're setting a bar for
yourself, right? If you decide you want to do it
again, you'll know what went well, what didn't go well,
and you go from there.

Yes, exactly. And I hope that this experience instills a
love of distance running in me, and it doesn't make
me hate it, you know what I'm saying? I hope
that I finish it and I'm like, I'm itching for
more and I want to run all the major marathons,
and that's my hope. At the end of the day,
regardless of what the clock says at the end, I

(37:26):
hope that the experience makes me fall in love more
with this sport.

One thing I can just about guarantee anyone who runs
the TCS New York City Marathon, the experience on the
day will blow you away no matter what your time
is. And that's one thing I also really encourage people
to do, especially the first time they run, is, okay,
have a time goal if you want to, that's all
great, but make sure you soak in the experience of

(37:53):
it as well. And don't let your time goal and
looking at your watch keep you from looking at the
crowds, and hearing the music, and hearing the energy and
the people yelling your name as you go by, because
that's such a huge part of what makes it special.

Yeah, that is my number one priority. I think everybody
talks about having the A goal, B goal, C goal.
My A goal is just have an incredible experience. C
goal is sub- three.

I love it. I love the way you're approaching it.
I am super impressed at the times you're talking about,
so I can't wait to see what you do. How nervous
do you think you'll be at the starting line? The
nerves, and I've done a little theater for fun when
I was in school, but nothing remotely serious. But I
still can't think of the butterflies that you get or

(38:47):
just doing... I've done a lot of live television, like
the butterflies that you get before the red light goes
on for a broadcast. How do you think your pre-
show butterflies will compare to your pre- race butterflies on
November 2nd?

Well, I'll be honest with you, I don't get nervous
for Wicked anymore. I have done 1500 shows of Wicked,
so it's pretty ingrained in my body and in my
mind at this point. It's very rare that I will
go out to do a show and feel any sort
of nerves. If there's somebody in the audience, we had

(39:25):
Norbert Leo Butz, who's the original Fiyero, in the show
a couple of weeks ago. And so that definitely jacked
the energy a little bit, and that was one of
the most nervous performances I've had of Wicked. The 20th
anniversary performance of Wicked was very nervy, and my debut
in Wicked was very nervy. As far as the marathon

(39:49):
goes, I have no expectations of success other than finishing
it. So I don't feel a lot of pressure to
perform at a high level, although now that I said
I'm trying to go as close to three hours as
possible and all these people are going to hear this,
maybe I feel the pressure now. But I don't feel-

You put it out there, I love it. We're manifesting
this for you. Come on now, let's go.

It's in the universe. I've got my Alphafly 3s, they're ready
to go. But I don't feel the nerves really with
this. The only thing that I will say is that
I hope that my knee cooperates. I broke my knee
about five or six years ago playing Disney Company softball

(40:37):
of all things, stupid. So I hope that that cooperates.
It hasn't been an issue this entire training block, and
I hope that my gut cooperates. If those two things
happen, I'm not worried about my conditioning. I think that's
going to come through for me. Yeah, I don't think
the nerves are going to play a factor for me.

(40:57):
I'm just excited. I'm excited to lace up the shoes
and get out there and see what I can do.

I love it. I really do love it. If you
need any help on the nutrition side with your gut,
let us know offline. We've got some great folks in
the Road Runners community who are nutritionists. I'm actually working
with one myself to make sure that that stays right
too, because that's a big, big, big factor. All right,
so one last question I got to ask you before
we let you go.

Ask away.

Is it true that you are going to go from
the finish line of the marathon to perform not once
but twice on Broadway? You're going to do Wicked two
performances after the marathon, is that true?

So look, we have two scheduled that day. And anybody
that has worked with me over the past five years
in Wicked knows that I never call out of shows
unless I am on my deathbed. I think the first
two years that I was in Wicked, I called out
one time. And then my first year on Broadway, I
think I called out no times. I called out no

(41:59):
times except for my paternity leave. I had a kid
the first year at Wicked. So my plan is to
run the marathon and do the shows. I don't know
if that will come to fruition, but the goal is
to do two Wickeds after the marathon. So I can't promise

(42:21):
that'll happen. I'm not sure logistically time- wise. You've run
the marathon, when should I expect to finish?

Well, first, we got to figure out what wave you're
in and let's make sure we talk offline with our
team to make sure you're in the first wave because
you're going to have to be to have any chance
of that.

I am in wave one. I am in wave one. I can tell you that now.

All right, so if you're in wave one and you're talking about three hours and the matinees
are at what? 2

2

Be in the building at 1:30. So yeah, you could do it. It's possible. You
could really do it. I think we got to get
you off that walk off very quickly, get you to
a shower, a massage I think as well. I want
to see this happen, okay? Because this has to be
some sort of Guinness Book of World records. It has
to be only person ever to run a marathon and

(43:12):
then perform twice on Broadway. No one has ever done
this. I am quite confident no one's ever done this.
So we're going to work with you, Jordan, to see
if we can make this happen. And I want to
make sure our PR people are on board as well,
because if this happens, this has to be covered by
the media. This is something that must be told and
given attention to.

I will do my best. I don't want to sacrifice
my experience of having a good time, and enjoying, and
savoring the moment of finishing a marathon in order to
get to that first show. So if it doesn't happen,
I won't be crushed, but I will definitely do the
night show, 100%.

Incredible. Really incredible. So much fun talking to you, Jordan.

Thank you.

You're quite an inspiration as an athlete, as a performer,
truly doing everything. So congrats. We wish you luck. I
cannot wait to see you on race day. And I
just wish you good training from here till then, and we'll
see you at the finish line.

Thank you so much. Good luck in Chicago, man. You're
going to kill it.

All right, and thank you for your perseverance. It was
not easy to get this interview done, but Jordan stuck
with it and it was a great conversation with Jordan Litz,
Broadway star.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Maybelline New York, the official cosmetic partner of the 2025 TCS
New York City Marathon. Get a bold look that lasts
with SuperStay Matte Ink. Focus on your finish. Maybelline has
your look covered.

Torian Wiggins is not just logging miles, he's helping others
do the same. He's a New York Road Runners member
who has finished major races including the TCS New York
City Marathon, the New Balance Bronx 10 Miler, and the
United Airlines NYC Half. For Harlem Run, Torian is known for
leading the eight- minute pace group at Monday night runs and
organizing Saturday morning long runs. He even helped launch Harlem

(45:04):
Run's weekly speed workouts in order to make the community
faster and stronger. Torian's passion for running comes with a
passion for people. He's all about seeing his neighbors challenge
themselves and strive to be better.

Meb Keflezighi (45:17):
Torian, welcome to Set the Pace podcast. How's it going today?

Torian Wiggins (45:22):
It's going good. Thank you for having me.

Glad to have you. You have run some NYC's biggest races,
the Marathon, the Bronx 10 Miler, the NYC Half. What was
your experience like conquering those events?

The experience is always great. I think just getting one
with the community of just running and just feeding off the
energy of the crowd, the people that you're running by,
it makes things so easy and just motivating and inspiring
to just go out there and just run along with everyone.

Pretty awesome. The friendship that you make is huge. You are
a leader with the Harlem Run, have 10 pace and the 8-
minute per mile group on Mondays. What do you enjoy
about guiding the pace group and how does your running
together help the community bond?

Well, I like doing the eight- minute pace group. I actually initially
fell into it because someone got hurt and I end up
becoming the pacer at that time and then I just
never let it go. But I love it because at
one point you feel the energy of the people that
are depending on you to hit a certain pace and

(46:35):
at the same time I'm feeding off the energy of
them. So in a way, we're all just working together
to just hit a pace, be at a conversational pace.
I think I enjoy it because it's outside of my
comfort zone as well as someone to just start to
lead to become a leader of the group as well.

(46:57):
And it was, it's just amazing. So from there I started
from just running along with some of the slower paces to
building my way up to it and then now I'm
in a position to lead as well as try to
encourage others to get better along the way.

Wow, you all are about helping others and that pace, eight-
minute pace is no slouch either. Keep up the great
work that you're doing. But we know you also help
organize started long runs. What do you think having multiple
paces group or routines is important for runners training for
the big races?

I think it's important and mostly for those that even just
preparing for the races here in New York, we have
the course in our backyard. I done ran all up
and down Harlem, so it's like for me, someone that
came from Florida, that was a good way for me
to explore the city. So with me and just doing

(47:56):
the running community and getting paces not only to just
to be out there training, but just to socialize and
just be with the community to say, " Hey, you want
to see what this place is with a cafe? Let's
just run there and everything." So that's how that kind
of originally started. It was a way to explore the
city, but not just Harlem, but the rest of the

(48:18):
community. So going to Queens, going to Brooklyn, going all
the way up in the Bronx just for some carrot
cake. I think it was important to just do something
different but at the same time enjoy the city while
it's here.

I'm in Florida and those Harlem hills are really tough,
so I'd rather come from Harlem to Florida than Florida
to the Harlem hills. Those are very, very challenging. But
you also do the Harlem Run, introduce weekly speed workout
to help everyone get faster. You were part of the
starting those sessions. What inspired that and how have you

(48:56):
seen that once the speed workout impact runners over time?

So for me, speed workout is pretty critical to training
and I know for me that it's really hard to do
speed workout by myself because I tend to slow down
and just take my time with it. So with me,
and the good thing is with the community, it's not
just me that personally built it up, but also another

(49:23):
leader. His name is Hussain, so shout out to him.
There was just one day where we was just talking,
it was like, " Hey, let's just get some speed workout
in." And then we decided to say, " Hey, we'll just
see if anybody else wants to join." And so from
there it was just maybe initially started off with four
people and then we just being consistent, we're showing everyone

(49:45):
that we did our speed workout, we're showing pictures, and
then it started to gain speed. Everyone seemed to recognize
it and then that's when we started to say, " Hey,
well what's a good day for everyone to do the
speed workouts?" So we put it in the app, we
got a vote, everyone said, " Hey, this day, this time

(50:07):
we can do so." And then it just started to
build up from there. So we've been doing it since
the beginning of the year and it's always encouraging because
running with people that are faster than you or even
at the same pace and at different paces is always
motivating to know that you're not going through the pain

(50:27):
by yourself and everything like that. So you come in,
get the speed workout in, just enjoy yourselves and watch
yourself grow as you consistently come out.

I'm just curious, what was the first intervals that you
guys did or the speed session?

Yeah, so we started with, so we're always Wednesdays on
the Great Hill in Central Park and what we initially
did is we did a one mile warmup, we did
four 400s and then two 800s, and then we had some
rest in between there. And what we did initially was
to just start to build from there. So the very

(51:05):
next week we would say, " Hey, we're still doing the
400s, and then we'll add a 800 and then we'll
just keep adding each week until we got to six
or eight. And then we'll start to switch it up just
to kind of keep the variety going and everything."

That's pretty awesome. So you have said that running gives
you a sense of freedom while challenging you physically, mentally,
and spiritually. Can you talk about what means for you
personally, maybe an example of how running has tested or
feed you in those ways?

Yeah, so always feel like, again, mentally, physically, and spiritually, you
have to have that alignment to have that balance in
order to have a good run. Because if one thing
is not aligned with the other two, it's going to
affect your run in a way. So whether it's physically, whether you're hydrated,

(51:56):
you warm up, make sure you respect the warm up
of course, and you're ready to go run, that's good in
itself. So where's your mind? Is your thoughts are on
the stresses of this world or what are you focusing
on at that time? And of course, you've got to have
the right attitude in order to do that. So if
one thing is out of balance, I feel that you

(52:17):
could potentially have a bad run. But if you can
just center, just warm up, be prepared, well hydrated, your
mind is not wondering, you just kind of focus on
to clear your mind from the stresses of the world.
You have the right attitude most importantly, I think that
is the formula to having a good run. And when

(52:39):
you think of the stresses in the world of what's going outside, maybe
political, maybe recent shootings, what's going on when Gaza, Ukraine,
Burma, anything. It's a lot of things that can get you
depressed or in a sad form of state. But the
time that when I'm running and I'm aligned and I

(53:01):
can focus, I can just for that run for 45
minutes or so, I can just ignore everything and just be in the
now, focus on myself, focus on my breathing, saying that
I'm blessed to be able to run. And that gives
me a sense of freedom from everything just for that moment.

Torian, it's great work that you guys are doing, just
keep up the great work. And yes, running is all
about the expectation about yourself, not somebody else's. And for
that hour or an hour and a half, you're in
the zone and it's a beautiful thing. And keep up
the great work.

If you're training for a race or just trying to
stay motivated, Peloton is the perfect running companion. Their instructor-
led runs and walks are built to fit into your
training routine with classes that help you stay consistent, build
speed, and enjoy the experience. Take your metrics, see your
progress, and train smarter with pace targets, hit runs, and

(53:59):
so much more. They've got it all to help you
reach your goals and stay on track. Ready to take
your race training up a notch. Learn more at onepeloton. com/ race-
training. Peloton, an official partner of the 2025 TCS New York
City Marathon. Thank you so much Torian for joining us
and for being an outstanding member of New York Road

(54:21):
Runners. Now it's time for the final part of today's
show, our Meb Minutes.

Thanks, Rob. Back to my mile- by- mile countdown to the 2025
TCS New York City Marathon. This week we are counting down mile
16 through 18, 1st Avenue North in Manhattan. This is the
time of amazingness, flat and loud and electrifying. This is where you kind

(54:49):
of came from a silence of the Queensborough Bridge to
the people whether they're watching from their condominiums. They're 10
deep, 15 deep. This is where the sound can move
you, literally, can move you. But you have to be
able to control that you still have 10 miles to
go. But pump your chest, give them thumbs up like

(55:13):
I did. This is where you acknowledge them, but at
the same saying, " Hey, I still got 10 miles to
go." And miles 16 to 18 is fairly flat. The crowd does
move you, but use it to your advantage. Don't sprint
but be able to say, " Hey, (inaudible) ." Feel the
thrilling sound of the TCS New York City Marathon. People come

(55:35):
to support the marathon and this is pretty evident. And you know
what? Acknowledge it, but at the same time, don't push
too hard too soon.

All right folks, that does it for another episode of
Set the Pace. We missed Becs today, but I tried
to carry the load for her. Thanks to our great
guest today, Jordan Litz and Torian Wiggins. If you liked
the episode, make sure you subscribe, rate it, leave us
a comment or a question. We'd love to hear from
you and that helps other people find the show as

(56:06):
well. Enjoy the miles. Good luck to everybody out there
as you continue your builds or maybe your tapers if
you're running Chicago. We'll see you next week. Enjoy the miles.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}“Wicked” Star Jordan Litz Prepares for His First TCS New York City Marathon

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

“Wicked” Star Jordan Litz Prepares for His First TCS New York City Marathon

On Purpose with Jay Shetty