November 6, 2024 • 41 mins
Unlock the secrets of the professional speaking world with the remarkable Rob Jolles as he shares his inspiring journey from an insurance salesman to a seasoned keynote speaker. Rob, with his unparalleled experience in sales training at Xerox, reveals how combining a passion for acting and teaching can lead to captivating audiences and creating a fulfilling career path. Through personal anecdotes and experiences with global enterprises like Toyota and Disney, we explore how to transition from one-off presentations to building lasting corporate relationships.
Discover the art of maintaining energy and enthusiasm in every presentation, no matter how successful, and learn the intricacies of collaborating with speaker bureaus. Rob emphasizes the critical role of authenticity, not just in holding an audience's attention, but in creating a profound and long-term impact. His insights into refining content for maximum impact and the symbolism of personal tokens, like his lightning bolt pin, offer a glimpse into the strategies that lead to sustained success in the speaking arena.
We also touch upon mastering the subtleties of timing, preparation, and authenticity in public speaking. Rob shares the importance of breaking down presentations into manageable segments and the benefits of continuous self-improvement. With analogies to athletic training and comedic open mic nights, he underscores the dedication required to excel. Don’t miss his tips on time management, audience engagement, and how platforms like Vistage can serve as a stepping stone for budding speakers. Be sure to listen for more pearls of wisdom and stay inspired with Rob's "Pocket Size Pep Talks" podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
This is Julie Baranek, host ofthe 7 Figure Builder Show, and
I'm here today with one of myfavorite friends, rob Jollis.
Hey, rob.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey, good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Good to be.
This is our conversation numbertwo.
I'm so excited to have you backand you are the most brilliant
speaker and today we're going totalk about I know, put you on
the spot how to up your.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'll accept that.
I'll honor that title.
Let's see if I can prove it toyou.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I know you can, how to up your presentation game and
just some tips and pearls ofwisdom from over 31 years of
professional, 31 on my own and10 more with Xerox.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
So I've been in the pit, as we call it, for quite a
while.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Well, tell us a bit like what is your bit of your
journey.
You know what you've been doingand I'm excited to dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Good.
Well, from a present.
You know I'm a sales trainer,but you know, if you want to
pull the curtain back and lookat the presentation side, I
actually started as an insurancesalesman for New York Life.
But within about two years andthree months and my numbers were
good At one point I was number11 in the country of 7,800
agents.
(01:11):
It wasn't because I didn't loveselling, it's because I was a
21-year-old selling lifeinsurance to 21-year-olds.
I kind of decided I was goingto take a walk and they said
don't leave so fast.
And they made me a trainer.
Take a walk.
And they said don't leave sofast.
And they made me a trainer.
And that opened up a completelydifferent avenue for me because
I actually had done some actingin college.
I was raised by a Marine so weweren't allowed to be actors,
(01:36):
but I really loved the acting.
I loved that kind of theater,that fix, that energy from a
stage.
And all of a sudden, as acorporate trainer, I went wow,
I'm feeling that, I'm feelingthat buzz.
So trainer for New York Life.
Then I became a trainer forXerox and I actually had to sell
for Xerox for a while, wentinto the field, but then was to
(01:59):
train the trainer instructor forXerox and I put on.
I went, oh wow, I put on oneyear.
I had there were one weekprograms.
I put 46 of them up in one year.
So I was almost every week inthe pit with a.
I've got to tell you it's atough topic because if I teach
you how to sell, you'reevaluating me on my sales and
you should.
(02:19):
When I teach you how to teachthen, and you're falling asleep
or you're not understandingsomething or I'm tripping over
chords or the visual isn't right.
I'm supposed to modeleverything I do.
So those were like dog yearsreally putting on the trainer
trainers for Xerox, but fell inlove with it.
31 years ago I left and Ientered this world of
(02:39):
professional speaking and it'slike, in a sense, a forgotten
occupation.
I was a business andcommunications major at Maryland
.
I've gone back to thecommunication school.
They haven't heard ofprofessional speakers even as an
occupation.
And it's been a wonderfuloccupation and I love it and
(03:00):
I'll tell you all about it todayif you'd like.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I would love it and for our loyal listeners.
You will have seen Rob beforebecause last time we did talk
about sales and we had one of myfavorite conversations.
We had a blast.
So I'm thrilled to have youback again and really just get
into this whole world ofspeaking and like why would
somebody want to be aprofessional speaker?
Why don't we start there?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, well, I think it's a natural step.
In other words, if I said toyou, how about being a training
specialist?
Then people go.
You know, I've heard of thatone and that is.
And, by the way, I wanted to bea training specialist because I
really wanted to be a teacherbut I didn't.
I didn't trust the pay, Ididn't trust, I didn't think I'd
be able to make enough moneyand, you know, raise a family
(03:44):
and be a breadwinner and I justwas concerned about the income.
If I could go back a fewdecades I might have changed my
mind.
But I looked at it as oh, I'llbe a trainer so that I can get
that acting fix, get in front,teach, but make a little bit
more on the corporate side.
But to your question what's thenext step from trainer?
(04:06):
Well, every now and then we getthese people coming in from the
outside.
I remember right before therewas a very important moment in
my life where a guy came in.
He was paid a whopping $1,500,which is not much at all for a
professional speaker.
But my eyes were about 31 totwo years ago.
My eyes were wide open Like wow, $1,500 for an hour.
(04:27):
Can't believe it.
What does he look like, and youknow, as my dad would have said
to me, you know he puts hispants on the same way you do,
one leg at a time.
I we went nose to nose.
He went, I went and we gotevaluations from a crowd of
about 400.
And my evaluations were quite abit higher.
I don't tell you that to brag.
(04:47):
I tell you that because a lightwent off and I went.
I think I can do it.
I think I can play in a biggerpool.
I want to be the guy that goesinto that Marriott ballroom with
a mic around his neck and wowsa crowd, and that's a step up
from being an inside corporatetrainer.
And so I saw it, I tasted it, Ifelt my numbers look good and
(05:11):
out I went.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I love that and for people thinking about okay, how
do you become a speaker?
Like we're talking really aboutkeynote speaking right, Like
being professional speaking,keynote speaking right that you
would be getting yeah, but youknow what, yeah, except I think
that's a blind spot for manypeople, because you'll find that
many people, particularlyauthors, want to be professional
(05:32):
speakers.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They can move books that way, but they see it all
myopically as keynotes.
I really when I tell you, 31years on my own it's rare you'll
ever meet anyone that goes thatlong.
It's just there's a kind of anarc to the career and it's
physical too.
But the reason why my careerhas extended and expanded as
(05:55):
long as it has is becausequickly I realized that the
keynote was just an entry tothese corporate accounts.
I've worked with Toyota forover 20 years.
I worked with Disney, I workedwith 20 different banks.
But if all I did was a keynote,not only would I be one and done
, even if it was the bestkeynote they ever saw.
(06:16):
They don't want to bring thesame guy back the next year.
But why not take that audienceof 400?
And if we're that good and Imean as a professional speaker,
you have to be that good but ifyou're that good, then why
wouldn't we, instead of want tohear an hour of this, why don't
we change the culture of theorganization and put together a
(06:39):
workshop with 20 people at atime and really expand our
footprint in there and thenfigure out how to continue to
add value.
And that's how, rather thansourcing gigs all the time, we
wind up with corporate gigs thatcan last.
You know, 20 years isridiculously long.
Not that I'm not very grateful,but a five-year relationship is
(07:00):
not unusual for a professionalspeaker who has workshops,
virtual coaching sessions, teamcoaching sessions, follow-up
seminars, implementation schoolsI mean, really surrounds it.
So the keynote although I'mgoing to say it but I'm
uncomfortable saying it akeynote's almost like an
(07:23):
infomercial and I know thatsounds terrible to people, but
you love it so much you want tobuy the frying pan.
But the real business is nowlet's learn how to use a frying
pan.
Let's really learn how to cook.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
All I did was sell you a spiral slicer and when you
put all that around it, I thinkthat's one of the ways you get
to 31 years slicer, and sothat's what I and when you put
all that around it, I thinkthat's one of the ways you get
to 31 years at this, 100% no,and I love that because that's
what gives you the stability too.
Like it's not, you don't haveto chase to your point, chasing
the next gig or being that onetrick pony, and you've got to do
(07:59):
it all these different places.
You build the relationship, youhave those contracts and then
you have that long-term therelationship, you have those
contracts and then you have thatlong term the longevity right
in doing what you love.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, yeah, you know even the speakers bureaus which
you know.
That's another topic.
But professional speakers willfrequently be repped by a
speakers bureau and I've got anumber of speakers bureaus that
will that represent me.
But they scratch their heads.
Most speakers bureaus don't doworkshops.
It's like what's that?
We're not interested.
(08:28):
So it's really wonderful becausea bureau.
You have to be very carefulwith the relationship.
When a bureau brings me to you,julie and I do a job and you go
.
That was so good.
I want three more keynotes.
The bureau gets a piece ofeverything, everything that came
out of that room and shouldthere's no gray areas.
If you think it's gray, youwon't last long in this business
(08:49):
.
It's a business of integrity.
If somebody shook my hand andmet me in that meeting, that
belongs to Bureau too.
But the bureaus have verylittle interest in workshops,
which I love.
And that's the part where Iremember I got my little
infomercial in where they wentboy, that guy's good for an hour
and then I can extend thefootprint a little bit.
(09:09):
So keep the bureaus happy andme happy at the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Totally so.
So share with us the magicalquestion of what makes what
makes you good, right Like, whatdo you have to do?
What makes you?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
good.
What makes you good?
Well, I'm not wearing it rightnow because I'm not delivering a
seminar.
But one thing you'll notice ifyou ever see a picture of me
online on a stage if you lookreal carefully, you'll see a
very small lightning bolt on mylapel.
I pin it on every time and Ipin it on to remind myself
doesn't matter if you've been atthis for some decades, this is
(09:45):
the first time.
The audience will see it.
You're as good as your lastpresentation, so pin it on.
And the lightning bolt standsfor energy and enthusiasm.
We can get to tactics in aminute, but one thing that we do
a professional do is we willkick up that energy and
enthusiasm.
I call them the greatequalizers.
And actually you don't have tobe a professional speaker to
(10:06):
just remind yourself that nobodyexpects you to be perfect.
You're allowed to drop this andnot have that work and be a
paid short over there.
Don't show up with energy andenthusiasm.
An audience won't forgive that.
Show up with it.
They'll forgive almost anything.
So the first thing we have tobring is an unbelievable level
of energy.
(10:26):
I mean whatever you think is ahigh level.
Kick it up a little bit more,because from 100 feet out, and
400 feet out doesn't look as bigas you think it looks.
So, without being unauthentic,but over the top on the energy
and enthusiasm, but over the topon the energy and enthusiasm.
And then in terms of content,my son is a comedian.
(10:50):
He can spend months and monthsgetting that joke right, getting
that routine right.
We do too.
But what we learn is we keeprefining and refining and
refining and tightening thekeynote, and so people will come
up afterwards and they'll say,wow, you know, I've heard this
before, this message, neverheard it quite that way.
(11:11):
And I'm thinking, damn right,you haven't.
It took me years to actuallysimplify the message.
That's what a good writer does,that's what a good speaker does
.
We say the same thing.
We tend to say it in in cleanersound bites or, and you know,
and there's more, but I justdon't want to filibuster, but
(11:32):
there are some other pieces Ican go into, but it's, it's
tight on the content, it's tighton that delivery, and all right
, I'm filibustering.
One more thing I you everwatched the cooking shows Julie
with you know chef, what's hisname?
(11:54):
Who's got all the shows?
Ramsey, okay, I watched a showone time and I, and really
something was said that juststuck with me.
Guy was, it was a guest chef.
He tasted something.
He said the protein is good,the protein's good.
You cook that chicken perfectly, your sauce is off.
And he said so.
You know, 75% of the meal isthe sauce.
We tend to obsess on theprotein.
(12:15):
We tend to obsess on thecontent and getting it right
when the sauce is the energy.
The sauce is how you involvethe audience, the creativity in
your questions, the case studiesyou threw out the small group
exercises, the perfect close,the immaculate opening, all the
things you're doing.
That's the sauce.
You put the protein with thesauce.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Even I'm getting excited and that's, that's what
people remember.
I mean, there's that thatsaying.
Right, people and I'm going toscrew it up because speaks to
the saying people remember what10 of you say, 10 of what you
say, help me out.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
70 and the other 90 on how you made them feel and
whatever that percentage is.
By the way julie funny story Iwrote a piece one time.
I thought I said that it justcame to me.
It's one of those things whereyou hear a song but you don't
really know that you heard thesong.
Clearly I didn't come up withit.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You heard it on this podcast last time.
That's it Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But I thought I came up with it.
I was one of these momentswhere I had this epiphany.
I went oh, you are so good, andI wrote an article about it and
somebody said you know, um, youknow, they started quoting the
people who came up with it.
You know, note to self wheneveryou think you're a genius,
google it real fast, just right,make sure someone else wasn't
first I do apologize, but it wasa legitimate mistake anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yes, I love that saying and I almost came up with
it, but I did almost almost,and I I already screwed up, so
you know, but I didn't Almostalmost, and I already screwed it
up, so you know.
But, truth be told, it is howyou make people feel and that's
what they remember.
They don't remember the wordsor the statistic, they just
remember how you make them feeland that speaks to the sauce and
really the magic that you bringand the energy that you bring.
(14:00):
And it's very similar to thepodcasting world.
I mean, if I show up here totalk to you and I'm flat as
could be, this is going to be avery boring podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, but Julie, you did another 200 really well,
great, but this is number 201.
Right, and we got to keepbringing the heat.
You know we got to keep and tobe fair to both you and me we're
both podcasters the heat iswhat we can control, which is
our energy and our enthusiasmand our preparation.
(14:29):
And yet, if we do a hundred,one of them was the best and one
of them was the worst and 98are in the middle.
But let's make a deal, you andme and anybody who's listening,
it'll never be because we didn'tgive it everything we had in
the tank.
That's the agreement we got tohave with ourselves.
And if we can shake hands withourselves and say I gave it
(14:49):
everything I have, good, it wasnumber 43 on the list, but it
wasn't because I phoned it in orI just didn't feel like
prepping that day.
No, control what we can control.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, and actually I think that goes back to what you
were saying with your lightningbolt, which I love is the
mental check in the mentalpreparation of getting your head
on straight, right, like I knowI've done podcasts and
something's happening in myhouse and I'm distracted and
like I can feel it.
I hope the audience, I'm surethey do feel it, but in my head
(15:21):
I'm like, ok, stay focused, stayfocused, stay focused, cause
I'm trying to do my very best,but I think when we take that
moment and just check in withourselves, then you can really
do a much better job of beingfully present, right.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
What do you think that's so smart?
I think that's so smart, it's,it's.
It's why mechanically gothrough the process of pinning
it on, because I don't want toforget, and we people, people go
.
How do you forget?
I?
I think about it for a moment.
Have you ever watched a sportygone to a sporting event?
I went to a caps game last year.
The tickets were not cheap andand uh, and it was expand, the
(15:59):
parking wasn't cheap and thefood wasn't cheap and uh, you
know, we got a souvenir overhere and a thing over there.
It was well north of a thousanddollars to go see the Caps play
and they lost like four,nothing, ok, it was one of those
days.
But the interview afterwards,they, person after person,
player, kept going, just didn'thave it tonight.
(16:21):
You know, we just just didn'thave the energy tonight and I
thought, damn, first of all, Iwish you'd called me and said,
hey, guess what, we don't havethe energy tonight.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
It might not want to.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, I find that unforgivable.
How about we gave it everythingwe had?
It didn't come together for ustonight, you know, but it wasn't
due to a lack of effort andpreparation and energy, and we
laid it all out on the ice there.
That it just didn't go away?
That's much better for me.
Don't tell me, just didn't, wejust didn't have it today.
(16:54):
You know, I don't believe inthat and that's why we do things
like that are mechanical to sayI can't forget, because we can
do something.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Hundreds of times you can forget, so let's do
something to remind us yeah, andI would say that's that tends
to be more forgivable of like Igave it everything I had and it
just didn't happen.
Okay, fine, versus okay withthat.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I wasn't feeling it.
Yep yep, puck didn't bounce ourway.
I almost wanted to write him ascript here.
I'll give you nine other waysto say this don't ever say.
I'm still looking at my bankaccount going.
You know, the hotdog was good,the guy that made the hotdog
gave it all he had, thankgoodness.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Right, Exactly so.
As you're looking for those,those relationships, those
opportunities, how do you findyour audiences?
How do you find the right onesright?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, that's the tough part, and even the right
ones is tough, because sometimeswe get hungry for business.
It doesn't even have to be aspeaking profession.
We get hungry and we bump intoa prospect that probably our
spidey senses are saying stayaway from and we don't listen.
We listen when we're flushedwith business.
(18:08):
But I digress, sorry, I slippedto the sales side on that one.
How do we find gigs?
Well, first of all, I think, foranybody who wants to start in
this profession, one approach Imight suggest, and there's many
approaches.
But there's an organizationcalled Vistage.
Have you ever heard of Vistage?
Okay, and Vistage is not goingto make you wealthy as a speaker
(18:31):
.
I'll just tell you that the payfor a Vistage speaker is about
and I'm telling you the numbershere a little bit about
one-fifteenth of what you wouldget on a professional gig.
Why would I take a Vistage gig?
And for those who don't knowVistage, it's an organization of
(18:52):
small to mid-level CEOs thatmeet in chapters all over the
country and world and if you'reapproved, you get in their
catalog.
They'll hire you for verylittle.
But let me turn the questionaround and say well, I'm getting
going as a speaker, and what ifI said here, I'll pick up all
your expenses, I'll give you astipend of some sort and I'll
(19:15):
put you in front of 10 to 15small to mid-level CEOs and I'll
give you three hours.
Remember, now, let's make ourdefinition of professional
speaking the right one.
It's not that we did a good job, or even a great job.
We always want to have themindset of I'm going to show you
something you've never seen inyour life.
I'm going to have you lean backin your chair and go what in
(19:37):
the world was that?
If we can make that happen,then it's numbers of.
I've got 15 people there aren'tone or two that say I want to
bring that person to my company,and the beauty of Vistage is is
that all the people in thatroom know if you bring this
speaker in, multiply it times 15or so, and so it's a prospect
(20:02):
pool.
I think I don't want to justhit on Vistage too hard, but the
reason why I like somethinglike that is I go back to my son
the comedian.
You know, comedians go to openmic nights.
They work out material, theytighten their presentations up,
and so you know my son gets somecorporate gigs when he does.
Got to be right.
Don't want to be trying out anew joke on, you know, with the
(20:23):
one that's paying you five timesmore, right.
So as an example now there areothers, but that's a, to me, a
real simple way of perfectingyour material, building your
prospect stream, you know, andgetting some prospects into that
pipeline.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Absolutely no.
That makes sense.
And then from there you cancontinue to build on it and
hopefully get more referrals andall of that.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So to your point about material, though, there's
a million things you could talkabout, Like how do you decide?
This is the right message forthat key opportunity.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, and I'll tell you, one of the reasons why I
love this question is because wecan also just sort of sneak
into the biggest mistake that99% of people, even the pros,
even me, occasionally make.
But I'm loading this one up big, I'm saying, 99% of the time,
same problem, same problem, yes,and the problem is too much
(21:18):
information.
Okay, the mirror doesn't talkback.
We're looking at it on paperand we're going.
I'm going to speak for threehours and I have three pages
that can't go for three hours.
Well, it can and it will, andso most people are battling the
clock.
They're so nervous they'regoing to go short.
They almost always go long.
(21:39):
Audiences don't like going long,so we got to be really careful
of how we fit material in.
Another reason why I like avistage I'm not trying to lose a
room, but I'm saying it's notthe end of the world.
If, if, I got a little clunkyin there in terms of my timing.
Uh, I think what we do is uh,for most professional speakers,
(22:01):
we typically are writers.
Uh, we, we gotta be a subjectmatter expert, and so, be it
right or wrong, most of us, whenwe write a book, we wake up in
the morning when a book'spublished and people go oh, he's
an expert on thumbtacks, wrotea book on thumbtacks.
Well now I'm really the sameguy I was before I went to bed
last night.
But okay, that's what the worldsays and I'm going to accept
(22:25):
that.
We get a book.
Then we begin to look withinthat book and we figure out how
can we shape the shot a littlebit.
I'd have to look at material togo deeper in.
But I'll tell you this whateverpresentation somebody puts
together and brings in front ofme, I usually chop it in half,
if not by two thirds, becausewhat am I doing with the other
(22:45):
half?
To two thirds I'm puttingactivities in.
I'm letting the audience nothear about swinging a golf club
but put it in their hand andplay a couple holes with me.
And the more just like sellingthe more the client talks, the
more they like us.
Guess what happens in apresentation?
The more the audience talks,the more they like the speaker.
So we don't crowd the material,take our best shot out of the
(23:07):
gate and we really fill it withlots of activity and lots of
movement.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, for sure.
And then what does yourpractice look like?
And I'm having flashbacks to Iforget if we talked about this
or not, but I'll share it anywaywhen I was in my corporate
career, I remember climbing upthe corporate ladder and at one
point I was offered apresentations course right, like
(23:36):
someone.
And for me it was like, why doI want to do this?
But, okay, fine.
And then I did a second one,which was executive
presentations right, and I hadno idea how much I would use
this for literally the wholerest of my life.
So far, right so.
But you learn to practice, andlike I would literally stand
there and go through my entirespiel before I would, of course,
(23:57):
get in front of an audience.
So what does that process looklike to you?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I you know you got to take yourbest shot at it.
It's all about timing.
With me, I'm never worried.
Will I know what to say?
I can muscle my way through it.
Most of us can.
I would.
I'm going to answer it two ways.
(24:22):
I'm going to say one take yourbest shot out of the gate.
Forget putting a family on acouch.
It's not going to work.
Eyeball it, try and figure itout.
I tend to break it up.
Even a keynote.
I'll break it up into quarters.
Where am I?
Where am I supposed to be 15,30 and 45 minutes into this
thing?
Three hour workshops, the samething-day workshop.
(24:44):
Where should I be before lunch?
The beauty of doing that andlet's just talk about a keynote,
about one hour Beauty of doingthat is we are in constant
contact with the clock.
In a sense, what happens withmost people and we've all seen
it happen, this is what anamateur will do is they'll have
a handout and they'll go.
(25:04):
They'll look and of a sudden,it's terror will strike them.
10 minutes to go and they'll go.
Um, skip page seven.
Uh, we don't eat.
Need eight or nine either?
Uh, go to 14.
Okay, uh, you know I'm going tomake an analogy I obscure, but
have you ever been in a hot airballoon?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I have.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Okay, me too, just once.
Um, but do you remember how thehot air balloon flew?
It doesn't fly straight.
They give it heat, it goes up.
They take the heat out, itstill goes up a little more and
then it begins to ease itselfdown and it goes past that
middle level.
And then they give it heat,goes down a little bit more and
then starts working its way up.
It's not a straight line.
(25:44):
Think like a hot air balloon.
Okay, meaning, where are we?
At 15 minutes?
Oh, my goodness, I'm fiveminutes ahead or I'm five
minutes behind.
I'm adding heat, I'm takingheat out, I'm bringing us back
in so that at 30 minutes, I'vegot a realistic way of, if I'm
going way too fast, slow down.
(26:04):
Ask questions of the audience.
Why don't you take a try atthis thing?
There's lots of ways of slowingit down.
Now I'm looking at 30.
Where's the balloon?
Ooh, now I'm running a littlebit slow.
Okay, now I'm going to ease itout.
That way we it's not a straightline, but at 55, 58 minutes.
We're not telling people to skippages, we're not rushing and
(26:27):
speaking quicker, we are easingit in.
So when you see a pro and it's60 minutes, we finish at 59
minutes and 59 seconds.
We tend to and, believe me, theprofessionals, they got meeting
planners.
There are other speakers beforeand after you.
You can't screw around withtime.
So if I can get the timingright, julie, the words will
just come with repetition.
(26:48):
A lot of it is eyeball it.
Have a plan for timing it.
Finish it properly and now keepassessing.
I've given presentations 300times.
I still keep a journal.
I'm flying home, I'm out inChicago on Monday and Tuesday.
I will be on my journal Tuesdayevening figuring out best two
parts of it, maybe.
What's one or two things I dodifferently?
(27:08):
Keep perfecting it, keepworking on that sauce.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Absolutely yeah.
And what's funny is Ipersonally do that with
podcasting.
I imagine you do the same oflike the milestones.
I know I need to be X, you knowwe'll keep talking until X
point and then bring it backaround to wherever I want to
land.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, You've been in a hot air balloon.
That's why you know how.
You know how this works.
It's not a straight line.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I do, and what would you say, are the skills that are
most, I'll say, important, butyou know the most critical
skills that you need to have tobe able to be a professional
speaker.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, one of them is and I love questions like this
because I'm just going, I'm justcoming where what's hitting my
head.
One of them is I mean thisyou're looking at me.
I'm a little older than youmight think I am, but I pride
myself and I probably don't lookas old as I am because I work
out like a knucklehead.
This is a physical occupation.
You have to.
(28:08):
You know, sometimes some weeksare much tougher than others.
I've been in five cities infive days giving five one day
workshops.
Not like I'm coming in for anhour, yeah, coming in late,
getting up early Damn, do itagain.
Moving luggage up and down, onand off Once or twice sounds
(28:29):
easy, but just keep putting itin the Ubers and Lyfts.
You have to be in physicalshape.
So one is train, train like anathlete, so that when that
audience sees you, you don't runout of gas.
And again, I'm not really goingto run out of gas in the
keynote, but wouldn't it beinteresting to see an audience
at 3.30 and you're still movingand firing.
I used to be a runner.
(28:50):
I still run a little bit, butthere's a marathon pace, there's
a 10-column pace, there's asprinter's pace.
You can't run a sprinter's paceand go 26 miles like that.
So we pace it out a little bit,but part of it is really
understanding that this isalmost an athletic career.
(29:10):
We get that Then.
The second thing I think is justto drive, to always want to
improve Always.
It's never perfect and thatdoesn't bother me.
I'm not upset, I'm not lookingto be perfect.
I don't think perfection isrelatable.
Anyway, I don't think theaudience wants me to be perfect.
They want me to be authentic.
(29:31):
So if I'm in good condition,I'm not gasping for air, I'm not
forced to sit down to catch mybreath, if I can maintain the
energy and be willing to keepperfecting my message.
Find one more word and realfast.
But when you're in front of anaudience you'll say things that
(29:53):
are almost meaningless.
It's almost like putting atomato into a can.
But I'll see the audience gosort of light up when I go
tomato can Immediately, walkingover lectern and going.
And another thing while I'mwriting tomato and can down is
because it's like a dream.
You don't want to tell yourselfduring a presentation, but I'll
remember it at the end All youremember is like the dream.
(30:15):
I had a really good dream.
I just don't know what it was.
I had a really good thought, sotake notes, it's okay.
That's why I like a lectern upthere.
I don't stay in the behind it,but I take certain notes and
keep looking for what'sresonating with that audience
and look for what isn'tresonating.
Sometimes we get up there andwe go not only.
Not only are they looking bored, I'm bored with me right now.
(30:36):
I got to find a better way, asmarter way of doing this.
Let's just keep perfecting thesauce.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Definitely, yeah, and that ties in with reading the
room.
Right, like I love that that.
It's important to read the room, whether people resonate with
what, are they not?
And, you know, be able to helpthat perfect thing as you move
forward.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, yeah, so you shared a bit of your secret
sauce with us, but what is likethat, one thing that you wish
that either people would know,or that's just like mind blowing
for you.
It may be, and it's this iskind of sounds nebulous, but it
(31:17):
may just be the pursuit ofauthenticity.
Remember how we you said youknow, it's not how you make it,
it's how you.
What they remember about you,it's how you you make you, it's
how you.
What they remember about you,it's how you made them feel.
One of the things they want todo is they want to feel like
you're authentic.
Um, you know I, I we won't getpolitical in here, forget red
and blue, whatever, but we allknow that biden had a bad debate
, okay, um, the part of it wasthat it was a lack of
(31:43):
authenticity.
In other words, we felt like,even though there isn't a
teleprompter, there might aswell be one, and it's a shame
because he's so much better thanthat and whatever reasons could
be medical, could maybe not be,I don't know.
I just know that, as a speaker,that audience wants us to be
(32:05):
authentic.
So how do you become authentic?
I mean, what do you take avitamin for that?
I think you have to trustyourself.
I think you really, I think wehave to stop being so hard on
ourselves and realize that theaudience again just wants to see
somebody honestly giving themwhat they have so content.
(32:27):
Get into the protein.
Be creative with your questions.
Ask more opinion and case studyquestions.
Relay questions when they'reasked at you.
There's techniques all over theplace.
When you get a question, don'tbe in such a hurry to answer it.
Maybe relay it to somebody else.
We've got some.
Keep involving that audience.
There's tactics all over theplace.
(32:47):
But to your question, I thinkif somebody says I'd like to
have a cup of coffee with thatwoman or that man, I just feel a
connection.
That's what I want my audienceto feel, a connection.
That's what I want my audienceto feel.
And to get there I have to havea level of comfort that feels
(33:09):
like you're in my living room.
Who is it?
Carole King.
Do you ever see a Carole Kingconcert?
Okay, I actually saw the livingroom tour.
It was called.
They set the stage up like itwas her living room.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
You know what it was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It was brilliant because quickly it began, you
almost felt like you were in herliving room.
I mean, she with her, the it'snot just her song, it's, and her
voice isn't perfect but it'sauthentic, right, and that stage
wasn't a whole lot on there,but there was a nice rug and a
coffee table, a couch over here,piano over there, and quickly
(33:46):
you've lost sight of the factthat we're not really in her
living room, but I feel like weare.
I want an audience to feel likethey're in my living room and
so I'm not trying to show themhow smart I am.
I'm trying to identify withthem and be compassionate with
them and empathize with them andbe as relaxed as I can up there
(34:08):
.
And that comes from repetitionand that comes from practice and
it comes from trustingourselves.
But it's a big question you'reasking.
I think, like I said, I couldrattle off protein, I can rattle
off some some um, sauce, moves,callbacks, things like that,
but I think at the end of theday it's just can you get to a
(34:31):
place where you're comfortable?
You're comfortable on that stageand I will tell you, I'm more
comfortable in front of 500people, I don't know, than three
people at a corporate dinnerthe night before.
I hate those, I do.
I feel like a Michael Jackson.
I have to put on my white gloveand have a steak or a salad or
(34:54):
whatever we're having.
I'd rather just eat.
But on that stage that's magic.
Let's keep appreciating thattoo.
Last, I know I'm going on, butI remind myself what a gift this
is Not my gift, the gift of.
I've got a crowd out there of20, 200, 2,000.
(35:15):
They want to hear what I haveto say.
Maybe if we remind ourselveswhat a blessing that is, we can
get to that living room, youknow, but it's, it's in the head
, it's in the head.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent, and I love you, know
the authenticity and I thinkthat's why we hit it off the
first time we chatted and whywe're here again is just that
genuine connection and just thegenuine energy and, yeah, yeah,
just really being true to whoyou are and that confidence,
that energy comes through 100.
So I love that as my dogs areplaying behind us and I'm trying
(35:52):
to it's very hard to ignorethem, but I have a cat here that
love, that can sense a podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
She can smell one, so I have to keep her downstairs
because she will literally startpulling on my shirt as I'm
speaking.
But I get cat bombed now inthat up here.
I know what that's like.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Video people.
I'm getting puppy bombed.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
But where can people find you online?
Tell us how they can find you,how they can book you and just
learn from you.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Thank you, it's J O L L E Scom.
It's just that's my last nameand you'll find them.
You know I write articles andpodcasts.
I do have a program that I'mexcited about that it's the
first time I'm ever going todeliver it, but it's going to
start in late September and it'sfive Fridays of basic how to
(36:42):
become a professional speaker,the sourcing the gigs, the
negotiating the contracts, thebusiness side of professional
speaking.
They don't teach it in school.
There's really no, really nobooks on it, but one, two.
Then then comes the protein isthe third session, the sauce is
the fourth session and then wegot to play a couple holes of
golf together.
We got to.
(37:02):
I want to see some speakersspeak and really get in there
and and fine tune, but it'll beand you can just go to the
website and contact us and we'lltell you all about that program
.
But first time I've ever doneone like this.
I'm normally a corporate guy,just sort of bought and sold by
corporations, but these butts inthe seats, or bits as we call
them, I'm sourcing myself.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
So I'm excited about it Awesome and we'll have the
links for everybody to comecheck it out.
But that sounds amazing, andbeing able to learn from you and
all your expertise andpersonality and everything else,
so I think that sounds amazing,awesome.
Well, thank you, rob, for beingon today.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I always enjoy it.
I do.
You know something you hit on.
You said something right at theend there.
It made me smile.
I don't do a whole, I run apodcast.
I don't get on a whole lot ofpodcasts, but I got on yours and
then I got on a set.
I'm going to be on second timebecause I do appreciate
authenticity.
You know, we, we tend to wantto kind of hang out with people
(37:59):
that we can identify with, and Ido appreciate the fact that you
are a very authentic person andI'm not just blowing smoke your
way, I'm telling you.
I just you know, we can hangaround with who we want to hang
around with.
I like people that areauthentic.
So cheers to you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I do as well.
Thank you so much.
I love that, so I will beexcited for a third time because
I want to hear all about yourspeaker gig.
So we'll book that later.
But yes, I always love chattingwith you, rob, so thank you for
being on Enjoy it as well,thank you.
Yeah, and plug your podcast.
Where can?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
they find your podcast.
Oh well, it's called PocketSize Pep Talks, go figure.
But you can find Spotify.
All the places will carry it,and including we put them on the
website as well, so you juststick with that J-O-L-L-E-Scom
thing.
You should be able to get mefrom all kinds of different
angles.
Perfect, and we'll have thatlink too.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Awesome.
Well, if you found value inthis episode, please do share it
, and that's how people find us,and you can find me at
7figurebuildercom and I will seeyou on the next episode.
Welcome back.
This is Julie Baranek, host ofthe 7 Figure Builder Show, and
I'm here today with one of myfavorite friends, rob Jollis.
Hey, rob.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey, good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Good to be.
This is our conversation numbertwo.
I'm so excited to have you backand you are the most brilliant
speaker and today we're going totalk about I know, put you on
the spot how to up your.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'll accept that.
I'll honor that title.
Let's see if I can prove it toyou.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I know you can, how to up your presentation game and
just some tips and pearls ofwisdom from over 31 years of
professional, 31 on my own and10 more with Xerox.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
So I've been in the pit, as we call it, for quite a
while.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Well, tell us a bit like what is your bit of your
journey.
You know what you've been doingand I'm excited to dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Good.
Well, from a present.
You know I'm a sales trainer,but you know, if you want to
pull the curtain back and lookat the presentation side, I
actually started as an insurancesalesman for New York Life.
But within about two years andthree months and my numbers were
good At one point I was number11 in the country of 7,800
agents.
(01:11):
It wasn't because I didn't loveselling, it's because I was a
21-year-old selling lifeinsurance to 21-year-olds.
I kind of decided I was goingto take a walk and they said
don't leave so fast.
And they made me a trainer.
Take a walk.
And they said don't leave sofast.
And they made me a trainer.
And that opened up a completelydifferent avenue for me because
I actually had done some actingin college.
I was raised by a Marine so weweren't allowed to be actors,
(01:36):
but I really loved the acting.
I loved that kind of theater,that fix, that energy from a
stage.
And all of a sudden, as acorporate trainer, I went wow,
I'm feeling that, I'm feelingthat buzz.
So trainer for New York Life.
Then I became a trainer forXerox and I actually had to sell
for Xerox for a while, wentinto the field, but then was to
(01:59):
train the trainer instructor forXerox and I put on.
I went, oh wow, I put on oneyear.
I had there were one weekprograms.
I put 46 of them up in one year.
So I was almost every week inthe pit with a.
I've got to tell you it's atough topic because if I teach
you how to sell, you'reevaluating me on my sales and
you should.
(02:19):
When I teach you how to teachthen, and you're falling asleep
or you're not understandingsomething or I'm tripping over
chords or the visual isn't right.
I'm supposed to modeleverything I do.
So those were like dog yearsreally putting on the trainer
trainers for Xerox, but fell inlove with it.
31 years ago I left and Ientered this world of
(02:39):
professional speaking and it'slike, in a sense, a forgotten
occupation.
I was a business andcommunications major at Maryland
.
I've gone back to thecommunication school.
They haven't heard ofprofessional speakers even as an
occupation.
And it's been a wonderfuloccupation and I love it and
(03:00):
I'll tell you all about it todayif you'd like.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I would love it and for our loyal listeners.
You will have seen Rob beforebecause last time we did talk
about sales and we had one of myfavorite conversations.
We had a blast.
So I'm thrilled to have youback again and really just get
into this whole world ofspeaking and like why would
somebody want to be aprofessional speaker?
Why don't we start there?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, well, I think it's a natural step.
In other words, if I said toyou, how about being a training
specialist?
Then people go.
You know, I've heard of thatone and that is.
And, by the way, I wanted to bea training specialist because I
really wanted to be a teacherbut I didn't.
I didn't trust the pay, Ididn't trust, I didn't think I'd
be able to make enough moneyand, you know, raise a family
(03:44):
and be a breadwinner and I justwas concerned about the income.
If I could go back a fewdecades I might have changed my
mind.
But I looked at it as oh, I'llbe a trainer so that I can get
that acting fix, get in front,teach, but make a little bit
more on the corporate side.
But to your question what's thenext step from trainer?
(04:06):
Well, every now and then we getthese people coming in from the
outside.
I remember right before therewas a very important moment in
my life where a guy came in.
He was paid a whopping $1,500,which is not much at all for a
professional speaker.
But my eyes were about 31 totwo years ago.
My eyes were wide open Like wow, $1,500 for an hour.
(04:27):
Can't believe it.
What does he look like, and youknow, as my dad would have said
to me, you know he puts hispants on the same way you do,
one leg at a time.
I we went nose to nose.
He went, I went and we gotevaluations from a crowd of
about 400.
And my evaluations were quite abit higher.
I don't tell you that to brag.
(04:47):
I tell you that because a lightwent off and I went.
I think I can do it.
I think I can play in a biggerpool.
I want to be the guy that goesinto that Marriott ballroom with
a mic around his neck and wowsa crowd, and that's a step up
from being an inside corporatetrainer.
And so I saw it, I tasted it, Ifelt my numbers look good and
(05:11):
out I went.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I love that and for people thinking about okay, how
do you become a speaker?
Like we're talking really aboutkeynote speaking right, Like
being professional speaking,keynote speaking right that you
would be getting yeah, but youknow what, yeah, except I think
that's a blind spot for manypeople, because you'll find that
many people, particularlyauthors, want to be professional
(05:32):
speakers.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They can move books that way, but they see it all
myopically as keynotes.
I really when I tell you, 31years on my own it's rare you'll
ever meet anyone that goes thatlong.
It's just there's a kind of anarc to the career and it's
physical too.
But the reason why my careerhas extended and expanded as
(05:55):
long as it has is becausequickly I realized that the
keynote was just an entry tothese corporate accounts.
I've worked with Toyota forover 20 years.
I worked with Disney, I workedwith 20 different banks.
But if all I did was a keynote,not only would I be one and done
, even if it was the bestkeynote they ever saw.
(06:16):
They don't want to bring thesame guy back the next year.
But why not take that audienceof 400?
And if we're that good and Imean as a professional speaker,
you have to be that good but ifyou're that good, then why
wouldn't we, instead of want tohear an hour of this, why don't
we change the culture of theorganization and put together a
(06:39):
workshop with 20 people at atime and really expand our
footprint in there and thenfigure out how to continue to
add value.
And that's how, rather thansourcing gigs all the time, we
wind up with corporate gigs thatcan last.
You know, 20 years isridiculously long.
Not that I'm not very grateful,but a five-year relationship is
(07:00):
not unusual for a professionalspeaker who has workshops,
virtual coaching sessions, teamcoaching sessions, follow-up
seminars, implementation schoolsI mean, really surrounds it.
So the keynote although I'mgoing to say it but I'm
uncomfortable saying it akeynote's almost like an
(07:23):
infomercial and I know thatsounds terrible to people, but
you love it so much you want tobuy the frying pan.
But the real business is nowlet's learn how to use a frying
pan.
Let's really learn how to cook.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
All I did was sell you a spiral slicer and when you
put all that around it, I thinkthat's one of the ways you get
to 31 years slicer, and sothat's what I and when you put
all that around it, I thinkthat's one of the ways you get
to 31 years at this, 100% no,and I love that because that's
what gives you the stability too.
Like it's not, you don't haveto chase to your point, chasing
the next gig or being that onetrick pony, and you've got to do
(07:59):
it all these different places.
You build the relationship, youhave those contracts and then
you have that long-term therelationship, you have those
contracts and then you have thatlong term the longevity right
in doing what you love.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, yeah, you know even the speakers bureaus which
you know.
That's another topic.
But professional speakers willfrequently be repped by a
speakers bureau and I've got anumber of speakers bureaus that
will that represent me.
But they scratch their heads.
Most speakers bureaus don't doworkshops.
It's like what's that?
We're not interested.
(08:28):
So it's really wonderful becausea bureau.
You have to be very carefulwith the relationship.
When a bureau brings me to you,julie and I do a job and you go
.
That was so good.
I want three more keynotes.
The bureau gets a piece ofeverything, everything that came
out of that room and shouldthere's no gray areas.
If you think it's gray, youwon't last long in this business
(08:49):
.
It's a business of integrity.
If somebody shook my hand andmet me in that meeting, that
belongs to Bureau too.
But the bureaus have verylittle interest in workshops,
which I love.
And that's the part where Iremember I got my little
infomercial in where they wentboy, that guy's good for an hour
and then I can extend thefootprint a little bit.
(09:09):
So keep the bureaus happy andme happy at the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Totally so.
So share with us the magicalquestion of what makes what
makes you good, right Like, whatdo you have to do?
What makes you?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
good.
What makes you good?
Well, I'm not wearing it rightnow because I'm not delivering a
seminar.
But one thing you'll notice ifyou ever see a picture of me
online on a stage if you lookreal carefully, you'll see a
very small lightning bolt on mylapel.
I pin it on every time and Ipin it on to remind myself
doesn't matter if you've been atthis for some decades, this is
(09:45):
the first time.
The audience will see it.
You're as good as your lastpresentation, so pin it on.
And the lightning bolt standsfor energy and enthusiasm.
We can get to tactics in aminute, but one thing that we do
a professional do is we willkick up that energy and
enthusiasm.
I call them the greatequalizers.
And actually you don't have tobe a professional speaker to
(10:06):
just remind yourself that nobodyexpects you to be perfect.
You're allowed to drop this andnot have that work and be a
paid short over there.
Don't show up with energy andenthusiasm.
An audience won't forgive that.
Show up with it.
They'll forgive almost anything.
So the first thing we have tobring is an unbelievable level
of energy.
(10:26):
I mean whatever you think is ahigh level.
Kick it up a little bit more,because from 100 feet out, and
400 feet out doesn't look as bigas you think it looks.
So, without being unauthentic,but over the top on the energy
and enthusiasm, but over the topon the energy and enthusiasm.
And then in terms of content,my son is a comedian.
(10:50):
He can spend months and monthsgetting that joke right, getting
that routine right.
We do too.
But what we learn is we keeprefining and refining and
refining and tightening thekeynote, and so people will come
up afterwards and they'll say,wow, you know, I've heard this
before, this message, neverheard it quite that way.
(11:11):
And I'm thinking, damn right,you haven't.
It took me years to actuallysimplify the message.
That's what a good writer does,that's what a good speaker does
.
We say the same thing.
We tend to say it in in cleanersound bites or, and you know,
and there's more, but I justdon't want to filibuster, but
(11:32):
there are some other pieces Ican go into, but it's, it's
tight on the content, it's tighton that delivery, and all right
, I'm filibustering.
One more thing I you everwatched the cooking shows Julie
with you know chef, what's hisname?
(11:54):
Who's got all the shows?
Ramsey, okay, I watched a showone time and I, and really
something was said that juststuck with me.
Guy was, it was a guest chef.
He tasted something.
He said the protein is good,the protein's good.
You cook that chicken perfectly, your sauce is off.
And he said so.
You know, 75% of the meal isthe sauce.
We tend to obsess on theprotein.
(12:15):
We tend to obsess on thecontent and getting it right
when the sauce is the energy.
The sauce is how you involvethe audience, the creativity in
your questions, the case studiesyou threw out the small group
exercises, the perfect close,the immaculate opening, all the
things you're doing.
That's the sauce.
You put the protein with thesauce.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Even I'm getting excited and that's, that's what
people remember.
I mean, there's that thatsaying.
Right, people and I'm going toscrew it up because speaks to
the saying people remember what10 of you say, 10 of what you
say, help me out.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
70 and the other 90 on how you made them feel and
whatever that percentage is.
By the way julie funny story Iwrote a piece one time.
I thought I said that it justcame to me.
It's one of those things whereyou hear a song but you don't
really know that you heard thesong.
Clearly I didn't come up withit.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You heard it on this podcast last time.
That's it Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But I thought I came up with it.
I was one of these momentswhere I had this epiphany.
I went oh, you are so good, andI wrote an article about it and
somebody said you know, um, youknow, they started quoting the
people who came up with it.
You know, note to self wheneveryou think you're a genius,
google it real fast, just right,make sure someone else wasn't
first I do apologize, but it wasa legitimate mistake anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yes, I love that saying and I almost came up with
it, but I did almost almost,and I I already screwed up, so
you know, but I didn't Almostalmost, and I already screwed it
up, so you know.
But, truth be told, it is howyou make people feel and that's
what they remember.
They don't remember the wordsor the statistic, they just
remember how you make them feeland that speaks to the sauce and
really the magic that you bringand the energy that you bring.
(14:00):
And it's very similar to thepodcasting world.
I mean, if I show up here totalk to you and I'm flat as
could be, this is going to be avery boring podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, but Julie, you did another 200 really well,
great, but this is number 201.
Right, and we got to keepbringing the heat.
You know we got to keep and tobe fair to both you and me we're
both podcasters the heat iswhat we can control, which is
our energy and our enthusiasmand our preparation.
(14:29):
And yet, if we do a hundred,one of them was the best and one
of them was the worst and 98are in the middle.
But let's make a deal, you andme and anybody who's listening,
it'll never be because we didn'tgive it everything we had in
the tank.
That's the agreement we got tohave with ourselves.
And if we can shake hands withourselves and say I gave it
(14:49):
everything I have, good, it wasnumber 43 on the list, but it
wasn't because I phoned it in orI just didn't feel like
prepping that day.
No, control what we can control.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, and actually I think that goes back to what you
were saying with your lightningbolt, which I love is the
mental check in the mentalpreparation of getting your head
on straight, right, like I knowI've done podcasts and
something's happening in myhouse and I'm distracted and
like I can feel it.
I hope the audience, I'm surethey do feel it, but in my head
(15:21):
I'm like, ok, stay focused, stayfocused, stay focused, cause
I'm trying to do my very best,but I think when we take that
moment and just check in withourselves, then you can really
do a much better job of beingfully present, right.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
What do you think that's so smart?
I think that's so smart, it's,it's.
It's why mechanically gothrough the process of pinning
it on, because I don't want toforget, and we people, people go
.
How do you forget?
I?
I think about it for a moment.
Have you ever watched a sportygone to a sporting event?
I went to a caps game last year.
The tickets were not cheap andand uh, and it was expand, the
(15:59):
parking wasn't cheap and thefood wasn't cheap and uh, you
know, we got a souvenir overhere and a thing over there.
It was well north of a thousanddollars to go see the Caps play
and they lost like four,nothing, ok, it was one of those
days.
But the interview afterwards,they, person after person,
player, kept going, just didn'thave it tonight.
(16:21):
You know, we just just didn'thave the energy tonight and I
thought, damn, first of all, Iwish you'd called me and said,
hey, guess what, we don't havethe energy tonight.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
It might not want to.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, I find that unforgivable.
How about we gave it everythingwe had?
It didn't come together for ustonight, you know, but it wasn't
due to a lack of effort andpreparation and energy, and we
laid it all out on the ice there.
That it just didn't go away?
That's much better for me.
Don't tell me, just didn't, wejust didn't have it today.
(16:54):
You know, I don't believe inthat and that's why we do things
like that are mechanical to sayI can't forget, because we can
do something.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Hundreds of times you can forget, so let's do
something to remind us yeah, andI would say that's that tends
to be more forgivable of like Igave it everything I had and it
just didn't happen.
Okay, fine, versus okay withthat.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I wasn't feeling it.
Yep yep, puck didn't bounce ourway.
I almost wanted to write him ascript here.
I'll give you nine other waysto say this don't ever say.
I'm still looking at my bankaccount going.
You know, the hotdog was good,the guy that made the hotdog
gave it all he had, thankgoodness.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Right, Exactly so.
As you're looking for those,those relationships, those
opportunities, how do you findyour audiences?
How do you find the right onesright?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, that's the tough part, and even the right
ones is tough, because sometimeswe get hungry for business.
It doesn't even have to be aspeaking profession.
We get hungry and we bump intoa prospect that probably our
spidey senses are saying stayaway from and we don't listen.
We listen when we're flushedwith business.
(18:08):
But I digress, sorry, I slippedto the sales side on that one.
How do we find gigs?
Well, first of all, I think, foranybody who wants to start in
this profession, one approach Imight suggest, and there's many
approaches.
But there's an organizationcalled Vistage.
Have you ever heard of Vistage?
Okay, and Vistage is not goingto make you wealthy as a speaker
(18:31):
.
I'll just tell you that the payfor a Vistage speaker is about
and I'm telling you the numbershere a little bit about
one-fifteenth of what you wouldget on a professional gig.
Why would I take a Vistage gig?
And for those who don't knowVistage, it's an organization of
(18:52):
small to mid-level CEOs thatmeet in chapters all over the
country and world and if you'reapproved, you get in their
catalog.
They'll hire you for verylittle.
But let me turn the questionaround and say well, I'm getting
going as a speaker, and what ifI said here, I'll pick up all
your expenses, I'll give you astipend of some sort and I'll
(19:15):
put you in front of 10 to 15small to mid-level CEOs and I'll
give you three hours.
Remember, now, let's make ourdefinition of professional
speaking the right one.
It's not that we did a good job, or even a great job.
We always want to have themindset of I'm going to show you
something you've never seen inyour life.
I'm going to have you lean backin your chair and go what in
(19:37):
the world was that?
If we can make that happen,then it's numbers of.
I've got 15 people there aren'tone or two that say I want to
bring that person to my company,and the beauty of Vistage is is
that all the people in thatroom know if you bring this
speaker in, multiply it times 15or so, and so it's a prospect
(20:02):
pool.
I think I don't want to justhit on Vistage too hard, but the
reason why I like somethinglike that is I go back to my son
the comedian.
You know, comedians go to openmic nights.
They work out material, theytighten their presentations up,
and so you know my son gets somecorporate gigs when he does.
Got to be right.
Don't want to be trying out anew joke on, you know, with the
(20:23):
one that's paying you five timesmore, right.
So as an example now there areothers, but that's a, to me, a
real simple way of perfectingyour material, building your
prospect stream, you know, andgetting some prospects into that
pipeline.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Absolutely no.
That makes sense.
And then from there you cancontinue to build on it and
hopefully get more referrals andall of that.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So to your point about material, though, there's
a million things you could talkabout, Like how do you decide?
This is the right message forthat key opportunity.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, and I'll tell you, one of the reasons why I
love this question is because wecan also just sort of sneak
into the biggest mistake that99% of people, even the pros,
even me, occasionally make.
But I'm loading this one up big, I'm saying, 99% of the time,
same problem, same problem, yes,and the problem is too much
(21:18):
information.
Okay, the mirror doesn't talkback.
We're looking at it on paperand we're going.
I'm going to speak for threehours and I have three pages
that can't go for three hours.
Well, it can and it will, andso most people are battling the
clock.
They're so nervous they'regoing to go short.
They almost always go long.
(21:39):
Audiences don't like going long,so we got to be really careful
of how we fit material in.
Another reason why I like avistage I'm not trying to lose a
room, but I'm saying it's notthe end of the world.
If, if, I got a little clunkyin there in terms of my timing.
Uh, I think what we do is uh,for most professional speakers,
(22:01):
we typically are writers.
Uh, we, we gotta be a subjectmatter expert, and so, be it
right or wrong, most of us, whenwe write a book, we wake up in
the morning when a book'spublished and people go oh, he's
an expert on thumbtacks, wrotea book on thumbtacks.
Well now I'm really the sameguy I was before I went to bed
last night.
But okay, that's what the worldsays and I'm going to accept
(22:25):
that.
We get a book.
Then we begin to look withinthat book and we figure out how
can we shape the shot a littlebit.
I'd have to look at material togo deeper in.
But I'll tell you this whateverpresentation somebody puts
together and brings in front ofme, I usually chop it in half,
if not by two thirds, becausewhat am I doing with the other
(22:45):
half?
To two thirds I'm puttingactivities in.
I'm letting the audience nothear about swinging a golf club
but put it in their hand andplay a couple holes with me.
And the more just like sellingthe more the client talks, the
more they like us.
Guess what happens in apresentation?
The more the audience talks,the more they like the speaker.
So we don't crowd the material,take our best shot out of the
(23:07):
gate and we really fill it withlots of activity and lots of
movement.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, for sure.
And then what does yourpractice look like?
And I'm having flashbacks to Iforget if we talked about this
or not, but I'll share it anywaywhen I was in my corporate
career, I remember climbing upthe corporate ladder and at one
point I was offered apresentations course right, like
(23:36):
someone.
And for me it was like, why doI want to do this?
But, okay, fine.
And then I did a second one,which was executive
presentations right, and I hadno idea how much I would use
this for literally the wholerest of my life.
So far, right so.
But you learn to practice, andlike I would literally stand
there and go through my entirespiel before I would, of course,
(23:57):
get in front of an audience.
So what does that process looklike to you?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I you know you got to take yourbest shot at it.
It's all about timing.
With me, I'm never worried.
Will I know what to say?
I can muscle my way through it.
Most of us can.
I would.
I'm going to answer it two ways.
(24:22):
I'm going to say one take yourbest shot out of the gate.
Forget putting a family on acouch.
It's not going to work.
Eyeball it, try and figure itout.
I tend to break it up.
Even a keynote.
I'll break it up into quarters.
Where am I?
Where am I supposed to be 15,30 and 45 minutes into this
thing?
Three hour workshops, the samething-day workshop.
(24:44):
Where should I be before lunch?
The beauty of doing that andlet's just talk about a keynote,
about one hour Beauty of doingthat is we are in constant
contact with the clock.
In a sense, what happens withmost people and we've all seen
it happen, this is what anamateur will do is they'll have
a handout and they'll go.
(25:04):
They'll look and of a sudden,it's terror will strike them.
10 minutes to go and they'll go.
Um, skip page seven.
Uh, we don't eat.
Need eight or nine either?
Uh, go to 14.
Okay, uh, you know I'm going tomake an analogy I obscure, but
have you ever been in a hot airballoon?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I have.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Okay, me too, just once.
Um, but do you remember how thehot air balloon flew?
It doesn't fly straight.
They give it heat, it goes up.
They take the heat out, itstill goes up a little more and
then it begins to ease itselfdown and it goes past that
middle level.
And then they give it heat,goes down a little bit more and
then starts working its way up.
It's not a straight line.
(25:44):
Think like a hot air balloon.
Okay, meaning, where are we?
At 15 minutes?
Oh, my goodness, I'm fiveminutes ahead or I'm five
minutes behind.
I'm adding heat, I'm takingheat out, I'm bringing us back
in so that at 30 minutes, I'vegot a realistic way of, if I'm
going way too fast, slow down.
(26:04):
Ask questions of the audience.
Why don't you take a try atthis thing?
There's lots of ways of slowingit down.
Now I'm looking at 30.
Where's the balloon?
Ooh, now I'm running a littlebit slow.
Okay, now I'm going to ease itout.
That way we it's not a straightline, but at 55, 58 minutes.
We're not telling people to skippages, we're not rushing and
(26:27):
speaking quicker, we are easingit in.
So when you see a pro and it's60 minutes, we finish at 59
minutes and 59 seconds.
We tend to and, believe me, theprofessionals, they got meeting
planners.
There are other speakers beforeand after you.
You can't screw around withtime.
So if I can get the timingright, julie, the words will
just come with repetition.
(26:48):
A lot of it is eyeball it.
Have a plan for timing it.
Finish it properly and now keepassessing.
I've given presentations 300times.
I still keep a journal.
I'm flying home, I'm out inChicago on Monday and Tuesday.
I will be on my journal Tuesdayevening figuring out best two
parts of it, maybe.
What's one or two things I dodifferently?
(27:08):
Keep perfecting it, keepworking on that sauce.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Absolutely yeah.
And what's funny is Ipersonally do that with
podcasting.
I imagine you do the same oflike the milestones.
I know I need to be X, you knowwe'll keep talking until X
point and then bring it backaround to wherever I want to
land.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, You've been in a hot air balloon.
That's why you know how.
You know how this works.
It's not a straight line.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I do, and what would you say, are the skills that are
most, I'll say, important, butyou know the most critical
skills that you need to have tobe able to be a professional
speaker.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, one of them is and I love questions like this
because I'm just going, I'm justcoming where what's hitting my
head.
One of them is I mean thisyou're looking at me.
I'm a little older than youmight think I am, but I pride
myself and I probably don't lookas old as I am because I work
out like a knucklehead.
This is a physical occupation.
You have to.
(28:08):
You know, sometimes some weeksare much tougher than others.
I've been in five cities infive days giving five one day
workshops.
Not like I'm coming in for anhour, yeah, coming in late,
getting up early Damn, do itagain.
Moving luggage up and down, onand off Once or twice sounds
(28:29):
easy, but just keep putting itin the Ubers and Lyfts.
You have to be in physicalshape.
So one is train, train like anathlete, so that when that
audience sees you, you don't runout of gas.
And again, I'm not really goingto run out of gas in the
keynote, but wouldn't it beinteresting to see an audience
at 3.30 and you're still movingand firing.
I used to be a runner.
(28:50):
I still run a little bit, butthere's a marathon pace, there's
a 10-column pace, there's asprinter's pace.
You can't run a sprinter's paceand go 26 miles like that.
So we pace it out a little bit,but part of it is really
understanding that this isalmost an athletic career.
(29:10):
We get that Then.
The second thing I think is justto drive, to always want to
improve Always.
It's never perfect and thatdoesn't bother me.
I'm not upset, I'm not lookingto be perfect.
I don't think perfection isrelatable.
Anyway, I don't think theaudience wants me to be perfect.
They want me to be authentic.
(29:31):
So if I'm in good condition,I'm not gasping for air, I'm not
forced to sit down to catch mybreath, if I can maintain the
energy and be willing to keepperfecting my message.
Find one more word and realfast.
But when you're in front of anaudience you'll say things that
(29:53):
are almost meaningless.
It's almost like putting atomato into a can.
But I'll see the audience gosort of light up when I go
tomato can Immediately, walkingover lectern and going.
And another thing while I'mwriting tomato and can down is
because it's like a dream.
You don't want to tell yourselfduring a presentation, but I'll
remember it at the end All youremember is like the dream.
(30:15):
I had a really good dream.
I just don't know what it was.
I had a really good thought, sotake notes, it's okay.
That's why I like a lectern upthere.
I don't stay in the behind it,but I take certain notes and
keep looking for what'sresonating with that audience
and look for what isn'tresonating.
Sometimes we get up there andwe go not only.
Not only are they looking bored, I'm bored with me right now.
(30:36):
I got to find a better way, asmarter way of doing this.
Let's just keep perfecting thesauce.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Definitely, yeah, and that ties in with reading the
room.
Right, like I love that that.
It's important to read the room, whether people resonate with
what, are they not?
And, you know, be able to helpthat perfect thing as you move
forward.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, yeah, so you shared a bit of your secret
sauce with us, but what is likethat, one thing that you wish
that either people would know,or that's just like mind blowing
for you.
It may be, and it's this iskind of sounds nebulous, but it
(31:17):
may just be the pursuit ofauthenticity.
Remember how we you said youknow, it's not how you make it,
it's how you.
What they remember about you,it's how you you make you, it's
how you.
What they remember about you,it's how you made them feel.
One of the things they want todo is they want to feel like
you're authentic.
Um, you know I, I we won't getpolitical in here, forget red
and blue, whatever, but we allknow that biden had a bad debate
, okay, um, the part of it wasthat it was a lack of
(31:43):
authenticity.
In other words, we felt like,even though there isn't a
teleprompter, there might aswell be one, and it's a shame
because he's so much better thanthat and whatever reasons could
be medical, could maybe not be,I don't know.
I just know that, as a speaker,that audience wants us to be
(32:05):
authentic.
So how do you become authentic?
I mean, what do you take avitamin for that?
I think you have to trustyourself.
I think you really, I think wehave to stop being so hard on
ourselves and realize that theaudience again just wants to see
somebody honestly giving themwhat they have so content.
(32:27):
Get into the protein.
Be creative with your questions.
Ask more opinion and case studyquestions.
Relay questions when they'reasked at you.
There's techniques all over theplace.
When you get a question, don'tbe in such a hurry to answer it.
Maybe relay it to somebody else.
We've got some.
Keep involving that audience.
There's tactics all over theplace.
(32:47):
But to your question, I thinkif somebody says I'd like to
have a cup of coffee with thatwoman or that man, I just feel a
connection.
That's what I want my audienceto feel, a connection.
That's what I want my audienceto feel.
And to get there I have to havea level of comfort that feels
(33:09):
like you're in my living room.
Who is it?
Carole King.
Do you ever see a Carole Kingconcert?
Okay, I actually saw the livingroom tour.
It was called.
They set the stage up like itwas her living room.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
You know what it was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It was brilliant because quickly it began, you
almost felt like you were in herliving room.
I mean, she with her, the it'snot just her song, it's, and her
voice isn't perfect but it'sauthentic, right, and that stage
wasn't a whole lot on there,but there was a nice rug and a
coffee table, a couch over here,piano over there, and quickly
(33:46):
you've lost sight of the factthat we're not really in her
living room, but I feel like weare.
I want an audience to feel likethey're in my living room and
so I'm not trying to show themhow smart I am.
I'm trying to identify withthem and be compassionate with
them and empathize with them andbe as relaxed as I can up there
(34:08):
.
And that comes from repetitionand that comes from practice and
it comes from trustingourselves.
But it's a big question you'reasking.
I think, like I said, I couldrattle off protein, I can rattle
off some some um, sauce, moves,callbacks, things like that,
but I think at the end of theday it's just can you get to a
(34:31):
place where you're comfortable?
You're comfortable on that stageand I will tell you, I'm more
comfortable in front of 500people, I don't know, than three
people at a corporate dinnerthe night before.
I hate those, I do.
I feel like a Michael Jackson.
I have to put on my white gloveand have a steak or a salad or
(34:54):
whatever we're having.
I'd rather just eat.
But on that stage that's magic.
Let's keep appreciating thattoo.
Last, I know I'm going on, butI remind myself what a gift this
is Not my gift, the gift of.
I've got a crowd out there of20, 200, 2,000.
(35:15):
They want to hear what I haveto say.
Maybe if we remind ourselveswhat a blessing that is, we can
get to that living room, youknow, but it's, it's in the head
, it's in the head.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent, and I love you, know
the authenticity and I thinkthat's why we hit it off the
first time we chatted and whywe're here again is just that
genuine connection and just thegenuine energy and, yeah, yeah,
just really being true to whoyou are and that confidence,
that energy comes through 100.
So I love that as my dogs areplaying behind us and I'm trying
(35:52):
to it's very hard to ignorethem, but I have a cat here that
love, that can sense a podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
She can smell one, so I have to keep her downstairs
because she will literally startpulling on my shirt as I'm
speaking.
But I get cat bombed now inthat up here.
I know what that's like.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Video people.
I'm getting puppy bombed.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
But where can people find you online?
Tell us how they can find you,how they can book you and just
learn from you.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Thank you, it's J O L L E Scom.
It's just that's my last nameand you'll find them.
You know I write articles andpodcasts.
I do have a program that I'mexcited about that it's the
first time I'm ever going todeliver it, but it's going to
start in late September and it'sfive Fridays of basic how to
(36:42):
become a professional speaker,the sourcing the gigs, the
negotiating the contracts, thebusiness side of professional
speaking.
They don't teach it in school.
There's really no, really nobooks on it, but one, two.
Then then comes the protein isthe third session, the sauce is
the fourth session and then wegot to play a couple holes of
golf together.
We got to.
(37:02):
I want to see some speakersspeak and really get in there
and and fine tune, but it'll beand you can just go to the
website and contact us and we'lltell you all about that program
.
But first time I've ever doneone like this.
I'm normally a corporate guy,just sort of bought and sold by
corporations, but these butts inthe seats, or bits as we call
them, I'm sourcing myself.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
So I'm excited about it Awesome and we'll have the
links for everybody to comecheck it out.
But that sounds amazing, andbeing able to learn from you and
all your expertise andpersonality and everything else,
so I think that sounds amazing,awesome.
Well, thank you, rob, for beingon today.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I always enjoy it.
I do.
You know something you hit on.
You said something right at theend there.
It made me smile.
I don't do a whole, I run apodcast.
I don't get on a whole lot ofpodcasts, but I got on yours and
then I got on a set.
I'm going to be on second timebecause I do appreciate
authenticity.
You know, we, we tend to wantto kind of hang out with people
(37:59):
that we can identify with, and Ido appreciate the fact that you
are a very authentic person andI'm not just blowing smoke your
way, I'm telling you.
I just you know, we can hangaround with who we want to hang
around with.
I like people that areauthentic.
So cheers to you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I do as well.
Thank you so much.
I love that, so I will beexcited for a third time because
I want to hear all about yourspeaker gig.
So we'll book that later.
But yes, I always love chattingwith you, rob, so thank you for
being on Enjoy it as well,thank you.
Yeah, and plug your podcast.
Where can?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
they find your podcast.
Oh well, it's called PocketSize Pep Talks, go figure.
But you can find Spotify.
All the places will carry it,and including we put them on the
website as well, so you juststick with that J-O-L-L-E-Scom
thing.
You should be able to get mefrom all kinds of different
angles.
Perfect, and we'll have thatlink too.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Awesome.
Well, if you found value inthis episode, please do share it
, and that's how people find us,and you can find me at
7figurebuildercom and I will seeyou on the next episode.
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