May 13, 2024 • 41 mins
Discover how to craft online courses that captivate and educate without overwhelming your audience, as Julie Hood from CourseCreatorsHQ.com graces our show with her wisdom. Together, we unpack the secrets to generating a passive income through course creation, emphasizing the fine line between information-rich content and information overload. Our conversation pivots to the innovative use of private podcasts, a medium that not only fosters intimate learning experiences but also skyrockets completion rates.
Transform your personal triumphs into a unique educational framework with our strategic insights on market research and course development. Julie and I explore how starting with mini-courses can establish trust and stave off creator burnout. We also share tactics for pinpointing hot topics and the pain points of your audience, leveraging social platforms and tools like Answer the Public to ensure your content hits the mark. Engaging and supporting students are central themes as we discuss live coaching calls and tiered course access, imparting key strategies to maintain motivation and drive course completion.
Wrapping up, we tackle the nuances of pricing your courses and the psychology behind effective marketing. Ensuring your course price reflects its value is paramount, as is constructing a compelling and market-validated offer. The art of email marketing takes the spotlight, highlighting the role of a robust list, targeted messaging, and the courage to embrace failure as part of the growth journey. By the end of our talk, you'll be equipped with actionable advice from Julie Hood, honed to enhance every facet of your course creation and marketing efforts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, welcome back.
This is Julie Baranek, the 7Figure Builder Show, and I'm
here today with my friend, julieHood.
Hey, julie, hello, thanks forhaving me.
Absolutely, it's the Julie showtoday, so I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I know right.
It's so much fun when you getto meet other.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Julies stream of income for coaches and
consultants today that requiresa fraction of the time of most
of the others and helps you drawin leads, like it does so many
things for people's business, soI'm excited to dive in, but can
you tell us a bit about what itis that you do and this amazing
thing that you have?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes, thanks for asking.
I have coursecreatorshqcom.
We've been going since 2017,but I've actually was way online
before that.
But I sort of focused in oncourse creators and coaches.
They're my favorite peoplebecause they're out to improve
the world with what they knowand make a little revenue while
(00:56):
they're at it.
So we have a podcast, weeklynewsletter.
I do tons of courses, obviously, and I like to do live group
coaching.
So lots of fun, reallyinteresting ways to get
connected with other outstandingpeople.
So it's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I love it, and so I'm going to just dive right in,
because I'm sure a lot of ushave some experience with
courses, either from creatingthem, from taking them, or both
Right, but what would you say iswe're going to from taking them
or both right, but what wouldyou say is we're going to say
the secret to a successfulcourse, like what makes the
difference?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You know there are several things, and so it starts
at the beginning and this isone that comes up so much for my
course creators and that isthey want to share too much in a
course and it comes from such agood place.
You know they want to just giveand give and give and they have
all this knowledge and theywant to share it with their
audience.
But what ends up happening isit's either so big it doesn't
(01:53):
get finished, or it's so bigyour students don't finish it,
cause I know we've all sat downand had 45 minute video as your
first lesson and you're justlike, oh, I don't know about
this one.
So I always have to rein in mycourse creators and be like you
have so much to share, let'skeep it concise, Just give them
(02:16):
what they need to get the result, and then we're going to take
all this other knowledge youhave and use it in more ways.
So either more courses, morecoaching, more ways, and then,
if you want to bundle some ofthose things, that's great.
But really focusing in on thefirst side of things, which is
how do I make sure I'm notoverwhelming my students, so
(02:37):
that's part of it, and then Ithink there's been kind of a
transition lately intorecognizing that a lot of people
don't finish.
If we really want to be honest.
They buy things and they'reexcited about what you're going
to help them with, but then thefinishing part of it.
So there's a couple differentthings that you can do to help
(02:58):
with that.
One of them is having a privatepodcast of your content, and if
it's the right content, youknow, if it's something where
you don't have to see the screento follow along, where you
could just listen, it can be areally useful experience for
your students, because then theydon't have to be sitting at the
(03:21):
computer and trying to log inand figure all the follow and
where was I and all of that.
They can listen on theirpodcast app, and so I was
talking with Lindsay Padilla ofHello Audio about this and how
much more completion you can getwhen people can listen.
So if you can combine those twothings, you're going to be 99%
(03:43):
of the way ahead of a lot of thecourse creators that are out
there already.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and I love that idea of the private podcast,
right, those mini podcasts,because it's exclusive content
that only they get, I'm assuming.
Right, because it comes withyour course and it's hitting
people from different angles.
Like, if they're an auditoryperson, like for me, I will
rarely see me sit down and reada book, but I am a voracious
(04:09):
consumer of audio books, likeit's just.
Obviously I'm in the podcastingworld, right, so it just
depends on how we're wired thatyou can feed that to your people
in a way that they like toconsume it.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Exactly, and there's a different level, I think, of
intimacy that you get with yourstudents, your listeners, your
podcast listeners, when you'redoing audio.
And it's different from videotoo, because I think there's a
little bit more of almost adistraction when we're watching
the videos, but with audio, whenwe're listening, it's almost in
(04:45):
your head, in your earbuds,kind of thing.
It's a whole different level.
So I agree.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, that, and depending where they are right,
like for me, I love to listenwhile I'm driving, so you've got
me focused other than trying tocontrol my vehicle.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, being safe.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Right, different than when I've got notifications
popping up when I'm watching it,right?
So, yeah, no, I really likethat idea I think you mentioned
about.
It's so easy for us to to telltoo much, right, like we have so
much to share, and that's veryeasy to do.
But how, how do people find,like, the best course idea so
(05:21):
that it's just contained tosomething that is palatable for
their audience?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So there's a couple different things that I like to
have you look at, and the firstone is and this usually
surprises people when they hearthis is you want to find that
somebody else is sellingsomething similar to what you're
doing?
That's a great thing.
A lot of times it willdisappoint some of my new course
(05:47):
creators.
They're like oh, somebodyalready is selling this, but
your content, your wisdom, yourbrilliance is going to come
through in your course and theway you teach and how you put it
together so that people that'swhy people buy from you.
Because I don't know about you,but I bought so many Facebook
ad courses trying to figure,trying to figure it out, that I
(06:09):
just keep buying, keep keeplooking, keep checking it out.
So people will definitely buy,even if you already see
something out there.
So that's one piece of it.
And then the second piece is toreally think about what is it
that you've gotten results with,either for yourself, or, if
you've gotten results forsomeone else, then you can build
(06:33):
on those experiences, kind ofpull out the knowledge and even
put it into your own sort offramework of how you would do
this for someone.
And I was talking with one of mystudents the other day how you
would do this for someone.
And I was talking with one ofmy students the other day and
she has all this big toolkit ofhow she works with women and she
was recognizing.
She said so usually when I domy one-on-one consulting I will
(07:00):
pull specific tools that aperson needs so they get a very
custom approach.
But she said you know, I canput that into a framework and
have all of these differenttools that can be part of a
course and then kind of guidepeople depending on what they
need and where they are.
But she said I really recognizethat I could put this into a
framework that would work formultiple people.
So that's kind of the secondstep to thinking about how you
(07:21):
want to do things.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, no, it's so true.
And to your first point, I mean, like you said, we can tend to
get discouraged like someoneelse is already doing this, but
if somebody is already doing it,then there's an established
market for it, right, Likepeople?
Like to your point, people arebuying this thing.
So therefore, come in with yourlens and you can, you know,
communicate that and teach thatin a different way.
(07:43):
And there's a proven market,which is really nice.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Exactly If you have to educate your market first and
like convince them, there's aproblem that is so much more
challenging and more difficultthan if you can come into
something and be another voice,in a different way, in a
different angle, with your ownuniqueness.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, yeah.
That's such a longer pathwayright To sail when you have to
start at the education pointthan when they're already
problem aware and they'realready solution aware and then
they just need to find you.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Exactly you got it, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
And then the other, what you mentioned about getting
results.
I'm sorry, I love to geek outabout this stuff too, but I find
it so helpful.
When we think of it as in termsof quick wins, right Like what
is that, that kind of like withlead magnets?
Right Like what is anactionable thing that I can help
somebody with, then they buildyour trust even more, they have
more trust in you and it'seasier to help them with the
(08:40):
next thing or the next course.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Right that you can work in a series them with the
next thing or the next course.
Right, that you can work in aseries.
Yes, yes, and I will grab abunch of my students sometime
and we have this course thatwe've been doing lately.
It's about mini courses andtotally builds on what you were
saying in that you wanted to bea quick win, in that, even if
they don't do anything else withyou, they feel like they
(09:04):
accomplished something.
So we'll jump in sometimes andreally look at okay, what's the
big course that you're going tooffer, and then what's a very
early step in that process.
So, for example, let's say youwere going to I'll just make
this up but let's say you'regoing to teach a course on how
to make an incredible lasagna.
(09:24):
You wouldn't want your minicourse or your lead magnet
either one, to be how toassemble the lasagna, because
that's later on in the process.
That would be in your fullcourse.
But you could do.
These are the five mostincredible ingredients that will
make any lasagna taste better,most incredible ingredients that
(09:47):
will make any lasagna tastebetter.
And so they start with thatmini course, they go shopping
and even if they don't do yourfull course, they can make a
better lasagna because they knowyour ingredients.
So that's a kind of a way tosort of keep in your mind, like,
what should I be doing, notonly for lead magnets?
But if I decide, I've startedhaving my folks do mini courses
so that they can get going on aproject and like, get it created
(10:09):
.
There's something powerfulabout getting to that finish
line, so that's where we've beenheading people these days.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, I love that, and you actually, too, mentioned
get it done right.
You don't get stuck, as, like Ihave this monster of a course
that you don't even know if it'ssomething that people want.
Exactly Right, have thismonster of a course that you
don't even know, if it'ssomething that people want,
exactly right.
How does market research tieinto all of this?
What is your approach there?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So I have a couple sites that I really like to go
check out, but my favorite, I'llbe honest, is Facebook groups
and LinkedIn groups, wherepeople are actually talking
about your topic, where peopleare actually talking about your
topic, and so I would go inthere and, like I found this
really hot topic in.
It was like a coach's group andthey were asking where do you
(10:53):
host your courses?
And 187 different comments.
Like people were hot about thistopic and had opinions and
found it super important.
So I have a freebie that I giveaway and that's how I found
that topic was.
Oh, this is something peoplereally ask about, have a lot of
opinions about.
(11:13):
So that can be a great place tostart and then from there, I
like to go out and see you knowwhat's on Google right now,
what's on Amazon, what's onGoogle right now, what's on
Amazon, what's on what arepeople commenting, especially in
reviews.
Or if you're on YouTube, youknow what's in the YouTube
(11:34):
comments for a video.
Like all of that is goldenresearch, because it's people
actually commenting and tellingyou what they need, what their
questions are.
So I start there.
And then I also like a websitecalled Answer the Public, so
(11:55):
they will let you do some freesearches and you can get
detailed about what people areasking what ideas are out there
quite a bit.
So once you get through all ofthat kind of research you have a
pretty good feeling for howgood your ideas are or where you
should focus.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, no, I love all those.
Those are like gold, like youmentioned.
You know, going through whatare people actually asking?
And the other one that I foundthat was hidden from my obvious
view for a long time was Googleitself, but not actually in
Google, Meaning if you search Idon't know if you've found this
or use this, but if you searchfor something but you scroll
(12:28):
down on the results and there'sa series of questions that
people have asked on that topicand you can open and expand it
and it'll give you morequestions on that topic.
I find that is a greatbrainstorming tool of like oh, I
didn't think that people wereasking that about this
particular thing.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, that's a new feature andyou're right, there's a lot
there that you can mine and workwith.
I also actually sometimes willgo out and you know this one you
kind of take with a grain ofsalt and put your own knowledge
to it.
But I will ask ChatGPT, or Iactually prefer Copilot,
microsoft Copilot better, and Iwill say tell me the big
obstacles that course creatorshave or that podcasters have or
(13:13):
you know, whatever, whatevergroup I'm trying to reach, and
usually I get some good ideasthat way and something I could
kind of build on.
So those are both.
That's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, the other one like that that I found, again
hidden from my plain view, wasin Canva.
If you use the, there's a docfeature in Canva for those that
have Canva out there, andthere's a magic ask, a magic
write feature in it that I usequite all the time, actually,
where it's similar like similarto ChatGPT.
(13:44):
But tell me the top 20 thingsthat course creators are
struggling with today and it'llgive you a whole list and it
gives me a different lens thansome other AI tools that I found
that I play with as well.
So, for those that have Canvaand want to play with it, that's
another great spot, if youalready have it too.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You know, I've seen that on there and I haven't
played with it yet.
So now you've inspired me, I'mgoing to go play with magic,
right.
So?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I use it all the time , quite honestly.
I use it with my clients.
I'm like here's an easy way tobrainstorm, you know, and so
it's going to suck.
A lot of them are going to suck.
Full transparency, yes, useyour gut, and you know this one
stands out to me and so, yeah, Iso you mentioned too about the
fall off rate.
Like that, people will oftenstart a course but they won't
(14:31):
necessarily complete it.
So are there things that yourecommend for that, or what are
your thoughts to help people getto the final result you're
trying to help them with?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, part of it is human nature.
We get all excited and then youhave to find a way to kind of
get through that valley, becauseat the beginning you're like,
oh, this will be great, I can dothis, I'll get to this.
And then there's this naturalhuman progression of, oh, this
is going to take some work andI'm going to have to put out
some effort.
And they're in that messymiddle of like, okay, now what
(15:02):
am I going to do with this?
And then they get back up tothe oh, I can see the light at
the end of the tunnel moment.
So your goal as the coursecreator is to sit down and
figure out okay, how can I helpthem get through that messy
middle part where they can't seethe end?
They have to do the work.
(15:25):
So a few things I like to do.
One I really like having livecoaching calls so that people
can bring you their obstacleswhen they're stuck and they feel
like, oh, I don't know what todo next.
They need somewhere to go.
So having either group coachingor some coaches will do boxer
coaching or email coaching lotsof ways to get questions
answered.
But that's another way to helppeople keep moving and one of
(15:48):
the things you can do toactually help with the revenue
side of things, too is you canhave the basic course that I
like to call the DIY version,that they don't get any support
with, and then you can have aslightly more expensive version
where they get some kind oflevel of support.
So I think that will help.
(16:08):
Then, also preempting it too.
You know, sending an email thatsays, hey, we're three weeks in
.
This is where it gets tough.
You might be not able to see itcompletely, you know, right now
, but I'm holding that space foryou and keep going.
And so I've sent my studentswho are in my six-month program
(16:31):
this is one of the things thatcomes up quite a bit and so I've
sent them a GIF a few timesthat are like it's from the Nemo
movie, from Finding Nemo, andit's, you know, just keep
swimming, just keep swimming,just keep going.
I promise we'll get thereAbsolutely.
So anything you can do to kindof help through that path, I
(16:52):
think, is good.
Have you seen some other thingsthat you've liked, that people
have done?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, I love Narcher email series I'm a huge
fan of.
I love automation and geekingout in systems and automation.
So I love setting up verypersonalized automation for
where people are or if they'regetting off track.
So like if the expectation is,hey, you do this once a week and
there are three weeks in andthey're on like lesson one.
Right, like you could say hey,I noticed you're still at lesson
(17:20):
one, are you stuck?
Do you need help?
Is there a problem?
Right, like reach out.
This is our support, if thereis support.
And then like making sure thatthe notifications are in sync
with where they are, because tome nothing's more annoying when
I binge through a course andthen their notifications are
completely off sync of where I'mat and it's like, well, now I
already did that.
(17:41):
Now you lost my attention, youknow.
So I think there's a happymedium there where I like to try
to do things as real time aspossible, to give those little
tidbits of encouragement and,you know, keep people engaged in
what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because
sometimes I'll get some coursecreators and I actually like
these two that will do 30 daykinds of things, or you know
specific time periods kinds ofthings, or you know specific
time periods, and so they set uptheir automation to be once a
day for 30 days.
(18:15):
But you're right, if you havestudents who are either going
fast or slow, it's notnecessarily going to work for
them.
So setting that up to be set upon when they complete lessons
might be a much better way to doit.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, I like that.
I mean to me it's the relevanceof whatever communication you
have with people.
That is what really connectswith people, or it turns them
off, like we're so used to inthis day of you know, having
everything personalized and justknowing where we are.
And I have a love haterelationship with it all, but
the reality is that's you knowwhat we've been trained to do,
(18:50):
so you know, the more that wecan connect with people where
they're at, the more we'rehaving a relevant experience
with them, the more we keeptheir attention, the more we
build the trust you know it all.
It all ties together, so Ithink it all helps.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Right, yeah, I think there's definitely there.
That's a next level, I wouldsay for some of my folks.
But once you can get therewhere you can really put in that
thought around, that I love.
I love that idea of keeping itso targeted for them.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And I'm curious you mentioned kind of the different
levels or different tiers, butwhat do you recommend people
when they're trying to figureout their price?
I know so many people struggle.
It's like is it a $47 price oris it a $4,000 course?
There's so much in the middlethere.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So we could probably talk a whole hour on pricing,
but I'll give you my short JulieHood version and the first
thing that I tell everyone is,whatever price you pick,
regardless of why you pick it is, you have to be 100% confident
in the price that you'recharging, because if you're not,
it will come through.
Your messaging will be vague.
(19:57):
Your audience will hear it ifyou don't feel like this is an
incredible offer for you.
The second thing I like to talkabout is do make it into a full
, complete offer for them.
So it's not just I'm going toteach you in this one course.
(20:18):
It's.
There's some extra things andsome of that extra knowledge
that we were talking aboutearlier.
Those can become some of thoseextra things.
So it becomes this completeoffer for folks things.
So it becomes this completeoffer for folks.
And then after that it gets alittle challenging in that
sometimes you just have to test.
You just have to try things out, and so the way I test things
(20:39):
is I usually start low.
I've trained my audience and mycommunity that the first time I
tell you about a product, it'sgoing to be the best price
you're probably going to see thewhole time.
So jump in here at thebeginning, because then, as I
refine, as I improve, as I addmore to it, I'm going to raise
the price.
So jump in at the beginning.
(21:01):
So it's, you know, it's alittle easier to raise your
pricing than it is to startsuper high and then bring it
down.
I had a coach that was wantingme to see if I was interested in
working with them and they had,like, I think their lowest
price at one point was $2,500.
(21:22):
And then they, their team, cameback and said hey, we can get
you started for a hundreddollars.
And it was such a likedisconnect in my brain that it
didn't re, it didn't work,didn't resonate, even though I
love the a hundred dollar price.
But I was like, hmm,something's not quite.
Yeah, yeah.
And then probably the lastthing and this is something to
(21:46):
have that I'd like to havepeople thinking about earlier is
what are you going to give awayfor free, what are you going to
make sure everyone pays for?
And to have those thoughts inyour mind so that, for example,
I have this blueprint that Ishare with my coaching clients
(22:06):
about how they get to sellingmore courses, and I never share
that for free.
I never give that out to anyone, it's only for my paid clients.
And so thinking about thatearly is a good idea, because
then you have those exclusivecontent pieces that you don't
share or talk about, and theneverything else is free, free
(22:29):
game, and I I love to talk about.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
So absolutely Is that what you've seen too.
Um, I have.
No, I have, and I think I thinkit's important to go with your
gut of like.
You know, if you'recommunicating a price and into
what you, you know we're sayingearlier, you're communicating a
price and you're like, oh God,that's way too much.
(22:53):
Or, oh, my God, I'm giving thisaway for nothing, right, like,
all of that energy is going tocome across to people, whether
you realize it or not it will,and so you need to be aligned
and centered on.
Okay, this price is freakingamazing.
You're going to get X, y, z forthis.
You know, if you want to raiseyour price, then align your
offer to match your price.
You want to lower it?
Align your offer for that.
Break it off as a piece, rightLike, there's ways around that.
But you need to be really solidin your gut of like.
(23:15):
Yes, I am worth every freakingpenny of this offer and more.
If you want it, great.
If not, whatever.
You know.
So, like that, confidence is abig part of what actually sells,
whatever it is that you'reselling.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
There part of what actually sells, whatever it is
that you're selling.
There's a copywriter that Ifollow.
His name is Bob Bly and he'sincredibly talented and he said
your price, should, your offershould, be worth 10 times what
your price point is, which, ifyou think about it, that's a
pretty big ask, especially forsome high-end, high-ticket
coaching.
So I always like to kind of usethat as a gauge.
(23:54):
I don't always do thatnecessarily, but it is an
interesting question to askyourself Is this worth 10 times
what I'm pricing it at?
And if it's not, then maybe youwant to think about what could
I do to make it more valuablethat?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
kind of thing.
Yeah, and I also find,personally, I like to have an
offer, everybody likes to havean offer like this but that you
go to market with it and youtalk to people, they're like,
well, yeah, right, like youshouldn't have to feel like
you're you're pushing a bigboulder uphill every time you're
talking to somebody, because ifyou do something's not aligned
right, like there's somethingmissing there.
(24:30):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That's such a good point.
Yes, and getting that messagingto match.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, and actually to that point I could ask
questions all day.
But so many people go out andthey build a course right, and
they just like I have an idea, Ihave a talent, I'm building a
course.
They go to market and they hearcrickets.
So what would you recommend forpeople that are at that point
in their journey and they'relike I don't even know where to
start to fix something that Idon't even know what's broken?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I know, and it's just such soul crushing when that
happens.
I, I, I hate it when I hearthat.
So there's a couple of things,and the first thing I want to
say is probably 95% of the timewhen I see that there's a couple
of things that are going on,and the first one is you
(25:21):
probably didn't get it in frontof enough people, and so this
was one of the things that wasso enlightening when I had some
seven figure clients, and Irecognize one of the big
differences that they had isthey had a huge email list, and
so whenever they would offersomething, it wasn't going to a
(25:41):
few hundred people, it was goingto.
The one group had like 200,000people that they would send
their emails to, so they couldget sales very easily.
It's easy to get a percentageof those folks getting to
purchase.
So when you're just starting,if that happens, your first
question should be how manypeople actually saw this?
(26:02):
And then, after that, I like tolook at the messaging, because
the other thing I see After that, I like to look at the
messaging because the otherthing I see and this isn't quite
as common, but sometimes I willsee this is there isn't a
specific outcome for a course.
It's more of.
You know I'm going to help youfeel better and I'm going to you
(26:22):
know your life will be happierand successful, happier and
successful.
And so those kinds of whilethose are very positive things,
they're very vague, so it's hardto really grab onto something.
To where your student goes oh,this is for me.
I have to have this right now.
So that's a couple of places tostart.
(26:50):
And then you know there's somany things that you could be
talking about, about how youreach people, how you told them
about your course, how manytimes you even shared it.
That's another one.
So you know, if you sent outtwo emails about a course that
you created and you didn't getanyone, you know how many people
actually saw that email andthose two emails and were able
to consider the offer.
(27:11):
So there's always a bigdiscussion.
I'm sure you've heard this too.
How many emails should I besending, especially when I have
a new offer?
And it has increased over theyears, just because people
aren't.
There's so much coming at us.
We're not seeing everything.
So that's kind of the third legof the three things that I
(27:33):
start with.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, no, and that makes total sense.
And so often we feel like, well, I put it on Facebook and I've
got 5,000 friends, so 5,000people saw it, when in reality
it may be like 30, right, right,but the algorithms they screw
you.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
It's like it's very good.
Build your email list.
Build your email list.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Build your email list yeah no, I agree, I agree and I
, yeah, I see it as well inclients.
And it's like for me, I alwaysfeel, like you know, go back to
market research and align.
You know, and it may be a quickfix of like you know your
messaging, which I completelyagree with, but if it's not,
then go back and realign yourtopic.
(28:15):
Make sure the topic solid,awesome, right, and it's it's
talking to your dream person,awesome.
Then there's other things thatwe can tweak to make it better,
right, so that you're actuallyreaching the person that you're
trying to reach.
And I always think of it as likea series of micro conversions,
just in my geeky, methodicalbrain of, like you know, figure
out, is this the right topicwith the right person?
(28:37):
And then look at eachindividual piece of that journey
that you can then optimize tosay, okay, am I getting leads?
Yes, you know, are peopleinterested?
Yes, are they coming to thepage?
Yes, is the page not converted?
Right, like you can, you cannarrow it down that way, instead
of looking at the whole journeyand being like I don't even
(28:57):
know where to start, which isvery overwhelming and, to your
point, soul crushing, of likeI've put so much energy into
this and it just flopped.
I'm just going to throw it awayand start another one, which I
think we've all been guilty of,but you know you don't have to
throw it all away if somethingis not getting you the results
that you know you're looking forand ultimately call you because
you can help them with that.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thanks.
Well, and I think to your pointtoo.
I would see some of my clientswho had been doing this for
years and years and years, whoknew their audience backwards
and forwards.
They would launch new productsthat would flop and it's never a
full-blown, guaranteed kind ofthing.
(29:37):
You're testing and you'retrying it out and I think one of
the things I found that reallyhard as a business owner is the
concept of we're going to justkeep doing things.
Some of them are going to workand some of them are going to
fail.
And you got to be okay withthat.
And that took me many, manyyears to get okay with, because
(29:59):
I don't know about you, but Igot the message all the way
through school If you study hardenough and you work hard enough
, you will get that good gradeand we will pat you on the head
and say good job and give you anA and life is happy and good.
And then you become a businessowner where you're like, okay,
there's nobody patting me on thehead anymore, there's no grades
(30:19):
, nobody telling me what to do,and then all of this stuff is
failing.
Like it's a shock for folks whoare not ready for it.
I think.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Oh yeah, if you throw enough spaghetti at the wall,
something will stick.
That's not really themethodology that we want to go
by.
But to your point.
I mean, that's really whatmarketing is is test measure,
improve right, Like what worked,what didn't.
It's not personal, it's notpeople saying they hate you,
it's just something ismisaligned.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So we tweak, we test, we and I have to say, because
it's popped up for me just now,in case this is happening to
anyone else, especially when Iwas brand new, unsubscribes
would be difficult to.
I'd be like what did I do?
Why did they leave?
What was wrong with this emailand get a lot of energy around
(31:08):
it.
And I finally have gotten to aplace where a couple things that
I do.
Number one I turn off allnotifications about unsubscribes
.
I don't want to know, I don'twant to see it, don't care, try
not to care.
And then the second thing isand I've seen this a lot lately
people are spring cleaning andso they're just mass
unsubscribing and they're noteven paying attention to what
(31:31):
they're unsubscribing from.
They're just trying to get ridof emails because it's too much
and they have too many, so youcould be the very best person in
their inbox, but they're notpaying that much attention,
they're just I've got to haveless emails.
So if you can tell yourselfit's that it's not what you're
saying or what you're doing, Ithink that can be helpful.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, and I'll take it one notch more than that,
cause I agree a hundred percent.
I look at it cause I used toget frustrated too.
It's like what did I say?
Like what?
You know, what was in thisemail that pissed you off enough
to say I don't want to hearfrom you again, but I flipped it
in my head of that's a no right, which is okay, and you know I
need X amount of no's to reach ayes.
(32:15):
So thank you for getting off mylist, thank you for not
reporting me to spam.
So I would always much ratheryou unsubscribe than you know
say this is spam and I don'twant it because that's not what
I do.
So I like to make myunsubscribes really prominent,
actually, and I have them as aPS of like hey, if you don't
want to hear from me again, noproblem, just hit this link,
(32:36):
it's all good, right, like I'mproactive and even asking for it
, so that my list is a list ofpeople that are engaged and
people that want to hear from meand the people that don't want
to hear from me.
I don't want to talk to you.
Like it's all good, you know.
So that was something that Ishifted in my head to look at it
.
It's not personal, and that'sone less no that I have to come
(32:57):
across to then hit a yes right.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yes, and technically, since you like the tech stuff
too, like I do, when you'resending to just those folks who
want to hear from you, who openall your emails, the email
providers, the Gmails, theYaho's, they love you even more.
So it's kind of an interestingbalance for me, because I've
gone back and forth on onlysending to people who who open
(33:24):
regularly and keeping people onyour list forever, cause you
never quite know when they'regoing to want to come back to
you, because and you kind ofhave to get to know your
audience, because I have hadsome folks who have been on my
list longer and then theyeventually are like okay, now
I'm ready.
So a year, 18 months.
(33:45):
And then I've had some folkswho will jump in right away.
They're all excited and theywant to get going.
So it's an interesting balance.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I think For sure, absolutely.
And I'm curious.
You've accomplished a ton inyour business.
You help your clients, you'vegot so much amazing things
you've done, but how do youdefine success?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, such a good question.
So this was one of the thingswhen I first started when my son
was born, actually, and I satdown and I recognized for me
that at the end they talk aboutimagining yourself at the end of
your life I realized for me andthis isn't for everyone, this
(34:24):
was just my own realization thatif I messed up the motherhood
side of things but maybe hadsome incredible career I was
working as a consultant at oneof the accounting firms, kind of
like you, with Fortune 500companies and it was a very
stressful, very busy, a verydifficult job to do as a new
(34:47):
mother.
And I was like you know, if Imess up this motherhood thing, I
am not going to be happy at theend of my life.
But if I don't have some bigcareer, job where I've made
partner or whatever, I'm notgoing to be unhappy about that.
And there's a middle ground.
Obviously you know you have tohave enough where you make
(35:07):
enough to survive and live.
And luckily my husband was in agood place where we could go to
the place where I did not haveto have some supercharged job
and career while we had littlekids and stuff.
So that was what started me outon the path of the choices that
I was making, and so I'm happyto say they are both my
(35:29):
daughters about to graduate,they're both about launched and
they're incredible people, andso I feel like I have I solved
that one.
But I think the important piecefor your listeners to hear is
to just think about it.
What is it that is going to berewarding for you and go that
direction?
Not what somebody else istelling you that is is success,
(35:52):
like what is it really for you?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Absolutely Now, and I couldn't agree more.
I mean, at the end of the day,that's why we do what we do,
generally speaking.
So that's, yeah, definitely,definitely important for success
.
And also, if you had theattention of the whole world for
five minutes, what would youtell them?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Be kind, and I really feel like our planet could be
so different if every personcould be kind.
I think we would be in acompletely different,
unbelievable place.
And if you want to add to that,do some unknown kindness.
How exciting is it when youdrive through Starbucks and
(36:33):
somebody's like, oh, the personin front of you just bought your
coffee for you?
Those kinds of things, I think,are what we definitely need,
and it can solve a lot of thechallenges out there.
So good question 100%.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, it's funny.
Years and years ago I made Iprobably have them somewhere
around here I made littlebusiness cards that said, please
enjoy this random act ofkindness and pass it along, or
something like that.
And so I leave those.
I got the whole case of themand design them whatever, and so
I leave them whenever I do thesame thing, like that's just one
of my favorite things to do toois it must be a jewelry thing
(37:09):
that you know we're kind of likespirits here.
There you go, leave it and payit forward.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know, like it's just, you can make such an
impact on other people's livesin a way that you don't even
know, right, oh yeah, I, I, Ilove that and I love the
business card idea.
I may have to borrow that.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I'll send it and we'll put it at the end of this
episode, so for anybody thatwants you can make your own, but
I'll give you the uh, thetemplate for it.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Thank you so for people that want to find you,
where can they find you online?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
yeah, so I'm at coursecreatorshqcom with ans
course creators and I also havea podcast.
It's all about online coursesand I try to make it super
actionable.
So you leave with some stepsthat you can take as you're
listening, and then we have theemail newsletter and the
(38:07):
probably the last thing.
If you need to message me,instagram or Facebook is usually
a good way to get get connected.
So any of those are good placesto start, and definitely get on
the email list, because that'swhere all the fun stuff goes.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Awesome.
Thank you, and I know youmentioned earlier you have a
magic little gift there on yourwebsite.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, so I'll send you the link so you can add it
to the show notes if you want.
But it's my mini course on howto find your profitable course
idea and it's just a littleshort course.
If you're trying, if you'rethinking about should I do a
course or not, it's a reallygood place to start and it's not
very long, so I'll send youthat Awesome A course about a
(38:51):
course.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
That's perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Awesome.
Well, thank you, julie, Iappreciate being on today.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
So much fun to chat with you and you as well and if
you found value in this episode,please do share it.
And some people find us and youcan find me at
sevenfigurebuildercom and I willsee you in the next episode.
Well, welcome back.
This is Julie Baranek, the 7Figure Builder Show, and I'm
here today with my friend, julieHood.
Hey, julie, hello, thanks forhaving me.
Absolutely, it's the Julie showtoday, so I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I know right.
It's so much fun when you getto meet other.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Julies stream of income for coaches and
consultants today that requiresa fraction of the time of most
of the others and helps you drawin leads, like it does so many
things for people's business, soI'm excited to dive in, but can
you tell us a bit about what itis that you do and this amazing
thing that you have?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes, thanks for asking.
I have coursecreatorshqcom.
We've been going since 2017,but I've actually was way online
before that.
But I sort of focused in oncourse creators and coaches.
They're my favorite peoplebecause they're out to improve
the world with what they knowand make a little revenue while
(00:56):
they're at it.
So we have a podcast, weeklynewsletter.
I do tons of courses, obviously, and I like to do live group
coaching.
So lots of fun, reallyinteresting ways to get
connected with other outstandingpeople.
So it's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I love it, and so I'm going to just dive right in,
because I'm sure a lot of ushave some experience with
courses, either from creatingthem, from taking them, or both
Right, but what would you say iswe're going to from taking them
or both right, but what wouldyou say is we're going to say
the secret to a successfulcourse, like what makes the
difference?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You know there are several things, and so it starts
at the beginning and this isone that comes up so much for my
course creators and that isthey want to share too much in a
course and it comes from such agood place.
You know they want to just giveand give and give and they have
all this knowledge and theywant to share it with their
audience.
But what ends up happening isit's either so big it doesn't
(01:53):
get finished, or it's so bigyour students don't finish it,
cause I know we've all sat downand had 45 minute video as your
first lesson and you're justlike, oh, I don't know about
this one.
So I always have to rein in mycourse creators and be like you
have so much to share, let'skeep it concise, Just give them
(02:16):
what they need to get the result, and then we're going to take
all this other knowledge youhave and use it in more ways.
So either more courses, morecoaching, more ways, and then,
if you want to bundle some ofthose things, that's great.
But really focusing in on thefirst side of things, which is
how do I make sure I'm notoverwhelming my students, so
(02:37):
that's part of it, and then Ithink there's been kind of a
transition lately intorecognizing that a lot of people
don't finish.
If we really want to be honest.
They buy things and they'reexcited about what you're going
to help them with, but then thefinishing part of it.
So there's a couple differentthings that you can do to help
(02:58):
with that.
One of them is having a privatepodcast of your content, and if
it's the right content, youknow, if it's something where
you don't have to see the screento follow along, where you
could just listen, it can be areally useful experience for
your students, because then theydon't have to be sitting at the
(03:21):
computer and trying to log inand figure all the follow and
where was I and all of that.
They can listen on theirpodcast app, and so I was
talking with Lindsay Padilla ofHello Audio about this and how
much more completion you can getwhen people can listen.
So if you can combine those twothings, you're going to be 99%
(03:43):
of the way ahead of a lot of thecourse creators that are out
there already.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and I love that idea of the private podcast,
right, those mini podcasts,because it's exclusive content
that only they get, I'm assuming.
Right, because it comes withyour course and it's hitting
people from different angles.
Like, if they're an auditoryperson, like for me, I will
rarely see me sit down and reada book, but I am a voracious
(04:09):
consumer of audio books, likeit's just.
Obviously I'm in the podcastingworld, right, so it just
depends on how we're wired thatyou can feed that to your people
in a way that they like toconsume it.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Exactly, and there's a different level, I think, of
intimacy that you get with yourstudents, your listeners, your
podcast listeners, when you'redoing audio.
And it's different from videotoo, because I think there's a
little bit more of almost adistraction when we're watching
the videos, but with audio, whenwe're listening, it's almost in
(04:45):
your head, in your earbuds,kind of thing.
It's a whole different level.
So I agree.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, that, and depending where they are right,
like for me, I love to listenwhile I'm driving, so you've got
me focused other than trying tocontrol my vehicle.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, being safe.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Right, different than when I've got notifications
popping up when I'm watching it,right?
So, yeah, no, I really likethat idea I think you mentioned
about.
It's so easy for us to to telltoo much, right, like we have so
much to share, and that's veryeasy to do.
But how, how do people find,like, the best course idea so
(05:21):
that it's just contained tosomething that is palatable for
their audience?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So there's a couple different things that I like to
have you look at, and the firstone is and this usually
surprises people when they hearthis is you want to find that
somebody else is sellingsomething similar to what you're
doing?
That's a great thing.
A lot of times it willdisappoint some of my new course
(05:47):
creators.
They're like oh, somebodyalready is selling this, but
your content, your wisdom, yourbrilliance is going to come
through in your course and theway you teach and how you put it
together so that people that'swhy people buy from you.
Because I don't know about you,but I bought so many Facebook
ad courses trying to figure,trying to figure it out, that I
(06:09):
just keep buying, keep keeplooking, keep checking it out.
So people will definitely buy,even if you already see
something out there.
So that's one piece of it.
And then the second piece is toreally think about what is it
that you've gotten results with,either for yourself, or, if
you've gotten results forsomeone else, then you can build
(06:33):
on those experiences, kind ofpull out the knowledge and even
put it into your own sort offramework of how you would do
this for someone.
And I was talking with one of mystudents the other day how you
would do this for someone.
And I was talking with one ofmy students the other day and
she has all this big toolkit ofhow she works with women and she
was recognizing.
She said so usually when I domy one-on-one consulting I will
(07:00):
pull specific tools that aperson needs so they get a very
custom approach.
But she said you know, I canput that into a framework and
have all of these differenttools that can be part of a
course and then kind of guidepeople depending on what they
need and where they are.
But she said I really recognizethat I could put this into a
framework that would work formultiple people.
So that's kind of the secondstep to thinking about how you
(07:21):
want to do things.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, no, it's so true.
And to your first point, I mean, like you said, we can tend to
get discouraged like someoneelse is already doing this, but
if somebody is already doing it,then there's an established
market for it, right, Likepeople?
Like to your point, people arebuying this thing.
So therefore, come in with yourlens and you can, you know,
communicate that and teach thatin a different way.
(07:43):
And there's a proven market,which is really nice.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Exactly If you have to educate your market first and
like convince them, there's aproblem that is so much more
challenging and more difficultthan if you can come into
something and be another voice,in a different way, in a
different angle, with your ownuniqueness.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, yeah.
That's such a longer pathwayright To sail when you have to
start at the education pointthan when they're already
problem aware and they'realready solution aware and then
they just need to find you.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Exactly you got it, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
And then the other, what you mentioned about getting
results.
I'm sorry, I love to geek outabout this stuff too, but I find
it so helpful.
When we think of it as in termsof quick wins, right Like what
is that, that kind of like withlead magnets?
Right Like what is anactionable thing that I can help
somebody with, then they buildyour trust even more, they have
more trust in you and it'seasier to help them with the
(08:40):
next thing or the next course.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Right that you can work in a series them with the
next thing or the next course.
Right, that you can work in aseries.
Yes, yes, and I will grab abunch of my students sometime
and we have this course thatwe've been doing lately.
It's about mini courses andtotally builds on what you were
saying in that you wanted to bea quick win, in that, even if
they don't do anything else withyou, they feel like they
(09:04):
accomplished something.
So we'll jump in sometimes andreally look at okay, what's the
big course that you're going tooffer, and then what's a very
early step in that process.
So, for example, let's say youwere going to I'll just make
this up but let's say you'regoing to teach a course on how
to make an incredible lasagna.
(09:24):
You wouldn't want your minicourse or your lead magnet
either one, to be how toassemble the lasagna, because
that's later on in the process.
That would be in your fullcourse.
But you could do.
These are the five mostincredible ingredients that will
make any lasagna taste better,most incredible ingredients that
(09:47):
will make any lasagna tastebetter.
And so they start with thatmini course, they go shopping
and even if they don't do yourfull course, they can make a
better lasagna because they knowyour ingredients.
So that's a kind of a way tosort of keep in your mind, like,
what should I be doing, notonly for lead magnets?
But if I decide, I've startedhaving my folks do mini courses
so that they can get going on aproject and like, get it created
(10:09):
.
There's something powerfulabout getting to that finish
line, so that's where we've beenheading people these days.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, I love that, and you actually, too, mentioned
get it done right.
You don't get stuck, as, like Ihave this monster of a course
that you don't even know if it'ssomething that people want.
Exactly Right, have thismonster of a course that you
don't even know, if it'ssomething that people want,
exactly right.
How does market research tieinto all of this?
What is your approach there?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So I have a couple sites that I really like to go
check out, but my favorite, I'llbe honest, is Facebook groups
and LinkedIn groups, wherepeople are actually talking
about your topic, where peopleare actually talking about your
topic, and so I would go inthere and, like I found this
really hot topic in.
It was like a coach's group andthey were asking where do you
(10:53):
host your courses?
And 187 different comments.
Like people were hot about thistopic and had opinions and
found it super important.
So I have a freebie that I giveaway and that's how I found
that topic was.
Oh, this is something peoplereally ask about, have a lot of
opinions about.
(11:13):
So that can be a great place tostart and then from there, I
like to go out and see you knowwhat's on Google right now,
what's on Amazon, what's onGoogle right now, what's on
Amazon, what's on what arepeople commenting, especially in
reviews.
Or if you're on YouTube, youknow what's in the YouTube
(11:34):
comments for a video.
Like all of that is goldenresearch, because it's people
actually commenting and tellingyou what they need, what their
questions are.
So I start there.
And then I also like a websitecalled Answer the Public, so
(11:55):
they will let you do some freesearches and you can get
detailed about what people areasking what ideas are out there
quite a bit.
So once you get through all ofthat kind of research you have a
pretty good feeling for howgood your ideas are or where you
should focus.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, no, I love all those.
Those are like gold, like youmentioned.
You know, going through whatare people actually asking?
And the other one that I foundthat was hidden from my obvious
view for a long time was Googleitself, but not actually in
Google, Meaning if you search Idon't know if you've found this
or use this, but if you searchfor something but you scroll
(12:28):
down on the results and there'sa series of questions that
people have asked on that topicand you can open and expand it
and it'll give you morequestions on that topic.
I find that is a greatbrainstorming tool of like oh, I
didn't think that people wereasking that about this
particular thing.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, that's a new feature andyou're right, there's a lot
there that you can mine and workwith.
I also actually sometimes willgo out and you know this one you
kind of take with a grain ofsalt and put your own knowledge
to it.
But I will ask ChatGPT, or Iactually prefer Copilot,
microsoft Copilot better, and Iwill say tell me the big
obstacles that course creatorshave or that podcasters have or
(13:13):
you know, whatever, whatevergroup I'm trying to reach, and
usually I get some good ideasthat way and something I could
kind of build on.
So those are both.
That's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, the other one like that that I found, again
hidden from my plain view, wasin Canva.
If you use the, there's a docfeature in Canva for those that
have Canva out there, andthere's a magic ask, a magic
write feature in it that I usequite all the time, actually,
where it's similar like similarto ChatGPT.
(13:44):
But tell me the top 20 thingsthat course creators are
struggling with today and it'llgive you a whole list and it
gives me a different lens thansome other AI tools that I found
that I play with as well.
So, for those that have Canvaand want to play with it, that's
another great spot, if youalready have it too.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You know, I've seen that on there and I haven't
played with it yet.
So now you've inspired me, I'mgoing to go play with magic,
right.
So?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I use it all the time , quite honestly.
I use it with my clients.
I'm like here's an easy way tobrainstorm, you know, and so
it's going to suck.
A lot of them are going to suck.
Full transparency, yes, useyour gut, and you know this one
stands out to me and so, yeah, Iso you mentioned too about the
fall off rate.
Like that, people will oftenstart a course but they won't
(14:31):
necessarily complete it.
So are there things that yourecommend for that, or what are
your thoughts to help people getto the final result you're
trying to help them with?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, part of it is human nature.
We get all excited and then youhave to find a way to kind of
get through that valley, becauseat the beginning you're like,
oh, this will be great, I can dothis, I'll get to this.
And then there's this naturalhuman progression of, oh, this
is going to take some work andI'm going to have to put out
some effort.
And they're in that messymiddle of like, okay, now what
(15:02):
am I going to do with this?
And then they get back up tothe oh, I can see the light at
the end of the tunnel moment.
So your goal as the coursecreator is to sit down and
figure out okay, how can I helpthem get through that messy
middle part where they can't seethe end?
They have to do the work.
(15:25):
So a few things I like to do.
One I really like having livecoaching calls so that people
can bring you their obstacleswhen they're stuck and they feel
like, oh, I don't know what todo next.
They need somewhere to go.
So having either group coachingor some coaches will do boxer
coaching or email coaching lotsof ways to get questions
answered.
But that's another way to helppeople keep moving and one of
(15:48):
the things you can do toactually help with the revenue
side of things, too is you canhave the basic course that I
like to call the DIY version,that they don't get any support
with, and then you can have aslightly more expensive version
where they get some kind oflevel of support.
So I think that will help.
(16:08):
Then, also preempting it too.
You know, sending an email thatsays, hey, we're three weeks in
.
This is where it gets tough.
You might be not able to see itcompletely, you know, right now
, but I'm holding that space foryou and keep going.
And so I've sent my studentswho are in my six-month program
(16:31):
this is one of the things thatcomes up quite a bit and so I've
sent them a GIF a few timesthat are like it's from the Nemo
movie, from Finding Nemo, andit's, you know, just keep
swimming, just keep swimming,just keep going.
I promise we'll get thereAbsolutely.
So anything you can do to kindof help through that path, I
(16:52):
think, is good.
Have you seen some other thingsthat you've liked, that people
have done?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I mean, I love Narcher email series I'm a huge
fan of.
I love automation and geekingout in systems and automation.
So I love setting up verypersonalized automation for
where people are or if they'regetting off track.
So like if the expectation is,hey, you do this once a week and
there are three weeks in andthey're on like lesson one.
Right, like you could say hey,I noticed you're still at lesson
(17:20):
one, are you stuck?
Do you need help?
Is there a problem?
Right, like reach out.
This is our support, if thereis support.
And then like making sure thatthe notifications are in sync
with where they are, because tome nothing's more annoying when
I binge through a course andthen their notifications are
completely off sync of where I'mat and it's like, well, now I
already did that.
(17:41):
Now you lost my attention, youknow.
So I think there's a happymedium there where I like to try
to do things as real time aspossible, to give those little
tidbits of encouragement and,you know, keep people engaged in
what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because
sometimes I'll get some coursecreators and I actually like
these two that will do 30 daykinds of things, or you know
specific time periods kinds ofthings, or you know specific
time periods, and so they set uptheir automation to be once a
day for 30 days.
(18:15):
But you're right, if you havestudents who are either going
fast or slow, it's notnecessarily going to work for
them.
So setting that up to be set upon when they complete lessons
might be a much better way to doit.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, I like that.
I mean to me it's the relevanceof whatever communication you
have with people.
That is what really connectswith people, or it turns them
off, like we're so used to inthis day of you know, having
everything personalized and justknowing where we are.
And I have a love haterelationship with it all, but
the reality is that's you knowwhat we've been trained to do,
(18:50):
so you know, the more that wecan connect with people where
they're at, the more we'rehaving a relevant experience
with them, the more we keeptheir attention, the more we
build the trust you know it all.
It all ties together, so Ithink it all helps.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Right, yeah, I think there's definitely there.
That's a next level, I wouldsay for some of my folks.
But once you can get therewhere you can really put in that
thought around, that I love.
I love that idea of keeping itso targeted for them.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And I'm curious you mentioned kind of the different
levels or different tiers, butwhat do you recommend people
when they're trying to figureout their price?
I know so many people struggle.
It's like is it a $47 price oris it a $4,000 course?
There's so much in the middlethere.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So we could probably talk a whole hour on pricing,
but I'll give you my short JulieHood version and the first
thing that I tell everyone is,whatever price you pick,
regardless of why you pick it is, you have to be 100% confident
in the price that you'recharging, because if you're not,
it will come through.
Your messaging will be vague.
(19:57):
Your audience will hear it ifyou don't feel like this is an
incredible offer for you.
The second thing I like to talkabout is do make it into a full
, complete offer for them.
So it's not just I'm going toteach you in this one course.
(20:18):
It's.
There's some extra things andsome of that extra knowledge
that we were talking aboutearlier.
Those can become some of thoseextra things.
So it becomes this completeoffer for folks things.
So it becomes this completeoffer for folks.
And then after that it gets alittle challenging in that
sometimes you just have to test.
You just have to try things out, and so the way I test things
(20:39):
is I usually start low.
I've trained my audience and mycommunity that the first time I
tell you about a product, it'sgoing to be the best price
you're probably going to see thewhole time.
So jump in here at thebeginning, because then, as I
refine, as I improve, as I addmore to it, I'm going to raise
the price.
So jump in at the beginning.
(21:01):
So it's, you know, it's alittle easier to raise your
pricing than it is to startsuper high and then bring it
down.
I had a coach that was wantingme to see if I was interested in
working with them and they had,like, I think their lowest
price at one point was $2,500.
(21:22):
And then they, their team, cameback and said hey, we can get
you started for a hundreddollars.
And it was such a likedisconnect in my brain that it
didn't re, it didn't work,didn't resonate, even though I
love the a hundred dollar price.
But I was like, hmm,something's not quite.
Yeah, yeah.
And then probably the lastthing and this is something to
(21:46):
have that I'd like to havepeople thinking about earlier is
what are you going to give awayfor free, what are you going to
make sure everyone pays for?
And to have those thoughts inyour mind so that, for example,
I have this blueprint that Ishare with my coaching clients
(22:06):
about how they get to sellingmore courses, and I never share
that for free.
I never give that out to anyone, it's only for my paid clients.
And so thinking about thatearly is a good idea, because
then you have those exclusivecontent pieces that you don't
share or talk about, and theneverything else is free, free
(22:29):
game, and I I love to talk about.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
So absolutely Is that what you've seen too.
Um, I have.
No, I have, and I think I thinkit's important to go with your
gut of like.
You know, if you'recommunicating a price and into
what you, you know we're sayingearlier, you're communicating a
price and you're like, oh God,that's way too much.
(22:53):
Or, oh, my God, I'm giving thisaway for nothing, right, like,
all of that energy is going tocome across to people, whether
you realize it or not it will,and so you need to be aligned
and centered on.
Okay, this price is freakingamazing.
You're going to get X, y, z forthis.
You know, if you want to raiseyour price, then align your
offer to match your price.
You want to lower it?
Align your offer for that.
Break it off as a piece, rightLike, there's ways around that.
But you need to be really solidin your gut of like.
(23:15):
Yes, I am worth every freakingpenny of this offer and more.
If you want it, great.
If not, whatever.
You know.
So, like that, confidence is abig part of what actually sells,
whatever it is that you'reselling.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
There part of what actually sells, whatever it is
that you're selling.
There's a copywriter that Ifollow.
His name is Bob Bly and he'sincredibly talented and he said
your price, should, your offershould, be worth 10 times what
your price point is, which, ifyou think about it, that's a
pretty big ask, especially forsome high-end, high-ticket
coaching.
So I always like to kind of usethat as a gauge.
(23:54):
I don't always do thatnecessarily, but it is an
interesting question to askyourself Is this worth 10 times
what I'm pricing it at?
And if it's not, then maybe youwant to think about what could
I do to make it more valuablethat?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
kind of thing.
Yeah, and I also find,personally, I like to have an
offer, everybody likes to havean offer like this but that you
go to market with it and youtalk to people, they're like,
well, yeah, right, like youshouldn't have to feel like
you're you're pushing a bigboulder uphill every time you're
talking to somebody, because ifyou do something's not aligned
right, like there's somethingmissing there.
(24:30):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That's such a good point.
Yes, and getting that messagingto match.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, and actually to that point I could ask
questions all day.
But so many people go out andthey build a course right, and
they just like I have an idea, Ihave a talent, I'm building a
course.
They go to market and they hearcrickets.
So what would you recommend forpeople that are at that point
in their journey and they'relike I don't even know where to
start to fix something that Idon't even know what's broken?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I know, and it's just such soul crushing when that
happens.
I, I, I hate it when I hearthat.
So there's a couple of things,and the first thing I want to
say is probably 95% of the timewhen I see that there's a couple
of things that are going on,and the first one is you
(25:21):
probably didn't get it in frontof enough people, and so this
was one of the things that wasso enlightening when I had some
seven figure clients, and Irecognize one of the big
differences that they had isthey had a huge email list, and
so whenever they would offersomething, it wasn't going to a
(25:41):
few hundred people, it was goingto.
The one group had like 200,000people that they would send
their emails to, so they couldget sales very easily.
It's easy to get a percentageof those folks getting to
purchase.
So when you're just starting,if that happens, your first
question should be how manypeople actually saw this?
(26:02):
And then, after that, I like tolook at the messaging, because
the other thing I see After that, I like to look at the
messaging because the otherthing I see and this isn't quite
as common, but sometimes I willsee this is there isn't a
specific outcome for a course.
It's more of.
You know I'm going to help youfeel better and I'm going to you
(26:22):
know your life will be happierand successful, happier and
successful.
And so those kinds of whilethose are very positive things,
they're very vague, so it's hardto really grab onto something.
To where your student goes oh,this is for me.
I have to have this right now.
So that's a couple of places tostart.
(26:50):
And then you know there's somany things that you could be
talking about, about how youreach people, how you told them
about your course, how manytimes you even shared it.
That's another one.
So you know, if you sent outtwo emails about a course that
you created and you didn't getanyone, you know how many people
actually saw that email andthose two emails and were able
to consider the offer.
(27:11):
So there's always a bigdiscussion.
I'm sure you've heard this too.
How many emails should I besending, especially when I have
a new offer?
And it has increased over theyears, just because people
aren't.
There's so much coming at us.
We're not seeing everything.
So that's kind of the third legof the three things that I
(27:33):
start with.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, no, and that makes total sense.
And so often we feel like, well, I put it on Facebook and I've
got 5,000 friends, so 5,000people saw it, when in reality
it may be like 30, right, right,but the algorithms they screw
you.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
It's like it's very good.
Build your email list.
Build your email list.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Build your email list yeah no, I agree, I agree and I
, yeah, I see it as well inclients.
And it's like for me, I alwaysfeel, like you know, go back to
market research and align.
You know, and it may be a quickfix of like you know your
messaging, which I completelyagree with, but if it's not,
then go back and realign yourtopic.
(28:15):
Make sure the topic solid,awesome, right, and it's it's
talking to your dream person,awesome.
Then there's other things thatwe can tweak to make it better,
right, so that you're actuallyreaching the person that you're
trying to reach.
And I always think of it as likea series of micro conversions,
just in my geeky, methodicalbrain of, like you know, figure
out, is this the right topicwith the right person?
(28:37):
And then look at eachindividual piece of that journey
that you can then optimize tosay, okay, am I getting leads?
Yes, you know, are peopleinterested?
Yes, are they coming to thepage?
Yes, is the page not converted?
Right, like you can, you cannarrow it down that way, instead
of looking at the whole journeyand being like I don't even
(28:57):
know where to start, which isvery overwhelming and, to your
point, soul crushing, of likeI've put so much energy into
this and it just flopped.
I'm just going to throw it awayand start another one, which I
think we've all been guilty of,but you know you don't have to
throw it all away if somethingis not getting you the results
that you know you're looking forand ultimately call you because
you can help them with that.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thanks.
Well, and I think to your pointtoo.
I would see some of my clientswho had been doing this for
years and years and years, whoknew their audience backwards
and forwards.
They would launch new productsthat would flop and it's never a
full-blown, guaranteed kind ofthing.
(29:37):
You're testing and you'retrying it out and I think one of
the things I found that reallyhard as a business owner is the
concept of we're going to justkeep doing things.
Some of them are going to workand some of them are going to
fail.
And you got to be okay withthat.
And that took me many, manyyears to get okay with, because
(29:59):
I don't know about you, but Igot the message all the way
through school If you study hardenough and you work hard enough
, you will get that good gradeand we will pat you on the head
and say good job and give you anA and life is happy and good.
And then you become a businessowner where you're like, okay,
there's nobody patting me on thehead anymore, there's no grades
(30:19):
, nobody telling me what to do,and then all of this stuff is
failing.
Like it's a shock for folks whoare not ready for it.
I think.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Oh yeah, if you throw enough spaghetti at the wall,
something will stick.
That's not really themethodology that we want to go
by.
But to your point.
I mean, that's really whatmarketing is is test measure,
improve right, Like what worked,what didn't.
It's not personal, it's notpeople saying they hate you,
it's just something ismisaligned.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So we tweak, we test, we and I have to say, because
it's popped up for me just now,in case this is happening to
anyone else, especially when Iwas brand new, unsubscribes
would be difficult to.
I'd be like what did I do?
Why did they leave?
What was wrong with this emailand get a lot of energy around
(31:08):
it.
And I finally have gotten to aplace where a couple things that
I do.
Number one I turn off allnotifications about unsubscribes
.
I don't want to know, I don'twant to see it, don't care, try
not to care.
And then the second thing isand I've seen this a lot lately
people are spring cleaning andso they're just mass
unsubscribing and they're noteven paying attention to what
(31:31):
they're unsubscribing from.
They're just trying to get ridof emails because it's too much
and they have too many, so youcould be the very best person in
their inbox, but they're notpaying that much attention,
they're just I've got to haveless emails.
So if you can tell yourselfit's that it's not what you're
saying or what you're doing, Ithink that can be helpful.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, and I'll take it one notch more than that,
cause I agree a hundred percent.
I look at it cause I used toget frustrated too.
It's like what did I say?
Like what?
You know, what was in thisemail that pissed you off enough
to say I don't want to hearfrom you again, but I flipped it
in my head of that's a no right, which is okay, and you know I
need X amount of no's to reach ayes.
(32:15):
So thank you for getting off mylist, thank you for not
reporting me to spam.
So I would always much ratheryou unsubscribe than you know
say this is spam and I don'twant it because that's not what
I do.
So I like to make myunsubscribes really prominent,
actually, and I have them as aPS of like hey, if you don't
want to hear from me again, noproblem, just hit this link,
(32:36):
it's all good, right, like I'mproactive and even asking for it
, so that my list is a list ofpeople that are engaged and
people that want to hear from meand the people that don't want
to hear from me.
I don't want to talk to you.
Like it's all good, you know.
So that was something that Ishifted in my head to look at it
.
It's not personal, and that'sone less no that I have to come
(32:57):
across to then hit a yes right.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yes, and technically, since you like the tech stuff
too, like I do, when you'resending to just those folks who
want to hear from you, who openall your emails, the email
providers, the Gmails, theYaho's, they love you even more.
So it's kind of an interestingbalance for me, because I've
gone back and forth on onlysending to people who who open
(33:24):
regularly and keeping people onyour list forever, cause you
never quite know when they'regoing to want to come back to
you, because and you kind ofhave to get to know your
audience, because I have hadsome folks who have been on my
list longer and then theyeventually are like okay, now
I'm ready.
So a year, 18 months.
(33:45):
And then I've had some folkswho will jump in right away.
They're all excited and theywant to get going.
So it's an interesting balance.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I think For sure, absolutely.
And I'm curious.
You've accomplished a ton inyour business.
You help your clients, you'vegot so much amazing things
you've done, but how do youdefine success?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, such a good question.
So this was one of the thingswhen I first started when my son
was born, actually, and I satdown and I recognized for me
that at the end they talk aboutimagining yourself at the end of
your life I realized for me andthis isn't for everyone, this
(34:24):
was just my own realization thatif I messed up the motherhood
side of things but maybe hadsome incredible career I was
working as a consultant at oneof the accounting firms, kind of
like you, with Fortune 500companies and it was a very
stressful, very busy, a verydifficult job to do as a new
(34:47):
mother.
And I was like you know, if Imess up this motherhood thing, I
am not going to be happy at theend of my life.
But if I don't have some bigcareer, job where I've made
partner or whatever, I'm notgoing to be unhappy about that.
And there's a middle ground.
Obviously you know you have tohave enough where you make
(35:07):
enough to survive and live.
And luckily my husband was in agood place where we could go to
the place where I did not haveto have some supercharged job
and career while we had littlekids and stuff.
So that was what started me outon the path of the choices that
I was making, and so I'm happyto say they are both my
(35:29):
daughters about to graduate,they're both about launched and
they're incredible people, andso I feel like I have I solved
that one.
But I think the important piecefor your listeners to hear is
to just think about it.
What is it that is going to berewarding for you and go that
direction?
Not what somebody else istelling you that is is success,
(35:52):
like what is it really for you?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Absolutely Now, and I couldn't agree more.
I mean, at the end of the day,that's why we do what we do,
generally speaking.
So that's, yeah, definitely,definitely important for success
.
And also, if you had theattention of the whole world for
five minutes, what would youtell them?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Be kind, and I really feel like our planet could be
so different if every personcould be kind.
I think we would be in acompletely different,
unbelievable place.
And if you want to add to that,do some unknown kindness.
How exciting is it when youdrive through Starbucks and
(36:33):
somebody's like, oh, the personin front of you just bought your
coffee for you?
Those kinds of things, I think,are what we definitely need,
and it can solve a lot of thechallenges out there.
So good question 100%.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, it's funny.
Years and years ago I made Iprobably have them somewhere
around here I made littlebusiness cards that said, please
enjoy this random act ofkindness and pass it along, or
something like that.
And so I leave those.
I got the whole case of themand design them whatever, and so
I leave them whenever I do thesame thing, like that's just one
of my favorite things to do toois it must be a jewelry thing
(37:09):
that you know we're kind of likespirits here.
There you go, leave it and payit forward.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know, like it's just, you can make such an
impact on other people's livesin a way that you don't even
know, right, oh yeah, I, I, Ilove that and I love the
business card idea.
I may have to borrow that.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I'll send it and we'll put it at the end of this
episode, so for anybody thatwants you can make your own, but
I'll give you the uh, thetemplate for it.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Thank you so for people that want to find you,
where can they find you online?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
yeah, so I'm at coursecreatorshqcom with ans
course creators and I also havea podcast.
It's all about online coursesand I try to make it super
actionable.
So you leave with some stepsthat you can take as you're
listening, and then we have theemail newsletter and the
(38:07):
probably the last thing.
If you need to message me,instagram or Facebook is usually
a good way to get get connected.
So any of those are good placesto start, and definitely get on
the email list, because that'swhere all the fun stuff goes.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Awesome.
Thank you, and I know youmentioned earlier you have a
magic little gift there on yourwebsite.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, so I'll send you the link so you can add it
to the show notes if you want.
But it's my mini course on howto find your profitable course
idea and it's just a littleshort course.
If you're trying, if you'rethinking about should I do a
course or not, it's a reallygood place to start and it's not
very long, so I'll send youthat Awesome A course about a
(38:51):
course.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
That's perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Awesome.
Well, thank you, julie, Iappreciate being on today.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
So much fun to chat with you and you as well and if
you found value in this episode,please do share it.
And some people find us and youcan find me at
sevenfigurebuildercom and I willsee you in the next episode.
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