S2E42-ReRun-REWATCH04-PT01-Woe's Hollow

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Severed The Ultimate Severance Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey the Refiner, Welcome back to the Severed Floor. The
Severed full rewatch of season two continues with one of
the most unique episodes of the series to date. Astern Warning.
I'm going to spoil the hell out of everything. You
must have seen all ten of the season two episodes
of Severance before you begin this podcast. There are spoilers everywhere.

(00:34):
You have been warned. Oh, and welcome to Severed, the
Ultimate Severance Podcast. I'm your host, Dalan As. Episode four
of season two, woes Hollow, was released for download on
February sixth of twenty twenty five. It was written by
series creator Dan Erickson and a name we haven't heard
since last season, Anna Yang Munch. This episode was directed

(00:54):
by executive producer Ben Stiller. This episode of Severance is
wholly unique in almost every way. It's entirely on location.
For one thing, we never even glimpse of White Hallway
the entire fifty one minutes. There are also a ton
of contradictions surrounding this episode. In order to prepare for
one of these podcasts, I seek out as many different

(01:16):
sources of information as possible. I consider the most important
sources to be direct quotes from the people involved. That's
why I'm constantly on the lookout for interviews with the
primary performers and the lead crew people. They were there,
they did the work. They more than anyone, should know
what happened, right Well, that's what I used to think
before I did the research on woes Hollow. Volunteer researcher

(01:38):
NYP and I have accumulated more than fifty different articles
talking about specifics involved in the production of this episode.
I have quotes from key people that completely contradict each
other when it comes to locations, the content of the scenes,
where they were, and how long they were out there.
It's really kind of crazy. As we get into the episode,

(01:58):
I'll let you know where those odd ball disconnects happened.
One of the most glaring is when they shot this episode.
It was shot in the Lake Minnewasca region of upstate
New York. Minnewaska isn't far from Lake Mohawk, where we
saw that cool gate to the birthing retreat. A number
of the show exteriors have been shot in this general area.
Ben Stiller said on the Ben and Adam podcast. This

(02:20):
shoot happened in March of twenty twenty three, right before
the start of the writer's strike. It was reported by
Vulture they were on location for a total of twenty
three days, or just over three weeks. Other places I've
found quotes claiming the shoot was five weeks, so about
thirty five days, and still other accounts claim four weeks,
so roughly twenty eight days. Stiller said they were in

(02:41):
natural snow, even to the point of having to take
a snow cat up to the tent area. Production designer
Jeremy Hindel told GQ this shoot happened in February of
twenty twenty three, and it got really warm that February.
He said, the snow all melted. He claimed somewhere between
seventy and ninety percent of the snow you're seeing in
this episode was created using CGI. Just because all of

(03:03):
this had my head spinning, I did a little bit
of weather slewthing. Turns out they're both kind of right. Yes,
it was warm in February of twenty twenty three, and
there was a lot of melt off, but there was
also a major snowstorm on March fourth. It dropped a
foot of new snow on the area. This was reported
on a skiing website called Above the Snow Line. A

(03:24):
Vulture article about Woe's Hollow also mentions this storm. Jeremy
Hindle was on site in February doing prep work. He
told Variety about hiking around this area for twenty days
scouting locations for the various Woes Hollow scenes. While doing
this he saw all of the melting snow and warm weather.
The entire production made the move to the location just

(03:45):
before the big snowstorm. This means shooting would have happened
in March and they'd have been shooting with at least
some real snow. This change in the weather may have
also added a few days to the shoot schedule. There
are a number of these confusing, inconsistentcies and the reporting
about the production of this episode. I think a lot
of them are the result of busy people with flawed recall.

(04:07):
Nobody remembers everything exactly as it happened. Plus, these are
some way back memories. They shot this thing two years
before it premiered. Think about it. Where were you and
what were you doing the first two weeks of March
in twenty twenty three. Unless you keep a daily journal,
you're probably going to get the details wrong when you
rely entirely on your gray matter. For recall, it's not

(04:28):
a huge deal. But we will get into these inconsistencies
as they come up. For now, we need to get
down to the lake bed so we can meet up
with our mdr Innies. That's right, the Innies are going outside.
It's time to open the file called woes Hollo. We
come up from black on an elevator day, and as

(04:50):
Zali transition, Herb's head distorts, so we know he's the
one who made the transition from Audi to any. Herb's
got a look of concern in his eyes. He appears
to be standing in a wide open snowscape, dressed in
a cossack style fur hat and fur coat. Tiny flakes
of snow are blowing past his face. Take note of
this first shot we open this episode with IRV, because

(05:14):
we are going to end the episode with IRV in
almost the exact same shot. It turns out to be
a very dramatic and permanent end. There's something else to
note about this opening image. It has the same look
as a famous painting from World War II. The painting
is called either the Thousand Yard Stare or the two
Thousand Yards Stare by artist Thomas Lee. This image first

(05:36):
appeared in Life magazine in nineteen forty four. It's of
a helmeted soldier looking directly at the viewer. A battle
is raging behind him, but he's not engaged. He's staring
off into the distance. The angle of Irv's hat matches
the angle of the soldier's helmet. The eyes have the
same far off look and are looking in the same direction.
If this isn't an homage to the original painting, it's

(05:59):
certainly an eerie coincidence. There's a cut to a long shot.
IRV is nothing but a tiny speck of black on
a wide open field of white. Jeremy Hindle cited fargo
as one of his inspirations when he was creating the
Look Book for Severance. This shot, plus the shot of
Harmonies Rabit out by the Highway both have strong fargo vibes.
IRV is standing on the surface of the frozen lake Minnewaska.

(06:22):
The wind is howling. Okay, so it looks like IRV
is standing on the surface of a frozen lake. John
Taturo is most definitely not. Remember it had been warm
in February. There was a snowstorm on March fourth, but
there was never a big freeze. They did not have
a frozen lake for this shoot. The Incredible Effects House
Industrial Light and Magic or ILM, who did the VFX

(06:45):
work for the show, released a great CGI sampler reel
for the season. It includes this scene with Taturo stomping
across a white dock. The dock extends maybe thirty or
forty feet out into the water. There is some precipitation
coming down while he's doing it, but the lake around
him is very liquid. The rest of the frozen and
snow covered lake was added in posts by ILM. It

(07:08):
is interesting to note, even though Severance is not a
show you would consider using a lot of CGI, there
is a ton of it in these scenes. It's what
Jeremy Hindle refers to as hidden VFX. Anytime you see
snow or wet pavement, it's probably CGI. There are as
many CGI scenes and effects in an episode of Severance
as there would be in any Star Wars or Marvel

(07:31):
TV series. You just don't realize they're there. It looks
like a wide shot, but then we cut to an
even wider shot. This view shows us the entire area
of the lake in the woods around it. This shot
has very definitely been redressed using CGI. The lake has
been widened out to make it rounder than it is
in real life. Signs of civilization have also been removed,

(07:53):
like the visitor buildings. Even in this very wide shot,
we can still see the tiny speck that is Irving.
Why is IRV waking up in this desolate place? Dan
Erickson has said, both in interviews and in the post
show to this episode, this is something he's always wanted
to do. He wanted to awaken an Inny while they
were standing out in the middle of nowhere. At first,

(08:15):
this scene was written so it would happen in a field.
Then the Severance location manager found this amazing space at
Lake Minnewaska. Field was replaced with frozen lake bed. When
asked how Audy IRV got out there in the middle
of the frozen lake, Ericson brings up what he calls
the subjective reality of the Innies. He said, quote, it

(08:36):
occurred to me that they could wake up somewhere and
have no idea how they came to be there, and
that if we put the audience in that same confused space,
we can solve that mystery along with them. Unquote. A
lot of folks got in on the mystery solving, but
as far as I'm concerned, no mysteries have truly been solved.
I have yet to see a theory that fully explains

(08:57):
how this lake wake up happened. I'm reminded of the
scenes and Being John Malkovich where visitors to Jm's brain
are deposited along the New Jersey Turnpike. Why, well, no
one knows. It's never revealed to us as an audience,
and we are basically told to just go with it.
I think the same movie making license is being applied
to these scenes around the lake. Even though we were

(09:19):
basically told by the writer and creator to just go
with it, that didn't stop certain folks from concocting a
few theories. Some of the most popular involved shutting the
Macrodats down completely and moving them here. A semi comatose
herv may have been stood up out on the frozen lake,
left there, then activated remotely once the severed floor crew

(09:40):
that brought him here had cleared off the ice. Whether
they were conscious or not, it would be necessary to
get each of the audies to the point where they're
any transition happens These theories rely on there being a
number of severed floor workers we've never seen. Milchik always
seems to have a conscientious employee at the other end
of his communicator. When he tells them to do something,

(10:02):
it gets done. Who are these people and where are
they hiding? It's not miss Wong, She's out here assisting
mister Miltchik with the Macrodads. Someone we've never met is
back at the home office doing Seth's bidding. Still more
theories claim it's possible the Audies themselves assisted in setting
up these any transitions. Well here in the next episode

(10:23):
how Audi Mark was aware of the ortbow He knew
his Inny would be attending a retreat over the weekend
they all did. The Audis would have to prepare for
this change in their schedule. Dylan would need to tell
Gretchen he won't be home this weekend. IRV would have
to find somebody to feed and walk radar. So it's
possible the Audi's helped with the transition. Maybe Irv's out

(10:43):
He was told to walk out on the frozen lake
and turn around once he was in position. That's when
his chip was remotely switched. Some speculators have proposed more
advanced tech for these transitions. Let's go full crackpot for
a second. It was noted there aren't any footprints leading
up to IRV. Even if it was just Irv's out
he getting himself in position, he should have left a

(11:05):
line of prints leading out to the transition spot. Since
he didn't, some fringe theorists have concluded Luman must have
teleportation technology. There is no evidence pointing to the existence
of this tech. It's purely speculation. If Luman has this tech,
then the theory says IRV was teleported to this spot

(11:25):
on the lake. His chip was switched remotely after the teleportation,
so he would transition to his AUDI. A cool possibility,
but we've never seen any indication Luman has anything close
to this capability. What's in any to do? When they
wake up outside and alone, IRV decides to yell oh.

(11:47):
We cut back to a close up of herv Ollo.
There's a cat to a long side shot. HERV is
on the open expanse of frozen lake up on a bluff.
We see a figure move out into the open irving.
It sounds like Mark Seno here.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
We cut to a shot from behind IRV looking up
the bluff. This looks like it could have been created
in a composite. It would have been very easy to
shoot IRV over a green screen, then add in the
bluff with Mark centered above the shot. According to Adam Scott,
that's not what they did.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
I was really up on that cliff. He was out
in the middle of the frozen lake and we were
actually screaming to each other.

Speaker 5 (12:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, we know from the ILM reel the lake wasn't
actually frozen, but it sounds like this might be an
actual shot. The bluff is tinted with a blue overlay
and a lot of CGI snow has been added everywhere.
The result is to make the scene very stark and cold.
The ENnies are, as predicted, pretty confused.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
What having wellly.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Mark from up on the bluff is no help.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
I have no fucking idea.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
He does point out a path up the cliff right
down there. This side shot blows me away. It's not
just the angle and structure of the shot, it's the
amazing clarity. Even at this distance, you can see Mark's
arms as he gestures to IRV. IRV is a bit
uncertain about the value of the path.

Speaker 6 (13:11):
You want me to come on?

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, that's what he was getting at. IRV isn't wanting
to move.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
I'm on the ice, full on the fucking eyes.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yes you are, and just how did you manage to
get yourself out there? Mark? Ever, the level headed department
manager tells him maybe he should get off the ice.
Come on, sure, easy to say when you're the one
on top of the bluff I'm covering. IRV starts his
track across the huge expanse of white. Crunching and cracking
sounds have been added by Jacob Ribakoff and the Folly Gang.

(13:41):
RV is taking some big steps as he crosses the
uncertain ice. As IRB is finding his way off the ice,
this might be a great time for you to hit
the vending machine. Refiner Severed will be right back. Hi.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
I'm Adam Scott. I play Mark s on Severance, which
you likely already know since you're listening to sever did
the Ultimate Severance Podcast.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
IRV continues his track across the ice. In several interviews,
the performers mentioned wearing crampons for most of this shoot.
If you're not familiar, crampons are clip on spikes. You
can add to regular shoes or boots. Crampons are great
help when it comes to things like getting across ice,
they can be difficult to use while walking in deep
snow or The cast also reports they aren't great for

(14:29):
crossing a field of blueberry bushes. Be careful, half dancing,
half running. IRV makes it to a fall of rocks
at the base of the bluff. Snow is still swirling
around him and covering his coat. We're going to hit
a scene in a bit where Ben Stiller noted they
were in actual snow. He said, most of the rest
of the falling snow we see anywhere in these scenes
has been added digitally, as we could see from the

(14:51):
ILM reel. This opening sequence is a mix of naturally
falling precipitation and some additional CGI snow. Mark is keeping
on Irv's track and ridiculously cold. As IRV is making
his way up the rocks, we get a pretty good
look at his cold weather wardrobe. The costumers were instructed

(15:13):
to go for vintage with these outfits. They were shooting
for about one hundred years old. This would put the
clothing in the era of Cure's final years on Earth.
The authenticity of the wardrobe extends all the way down
to the underwear. These folks are also wearing a special
belt buckle we'll get a glimpse of later. John Taturo
said the overcoats were warm, but also wound up weighing

(15:34):
about thirty pounds when they got wet. Zach Cherry claimed
there was an upside the hiking and all of this
heavy clothing. By the end of the shoot, he says,
he added quite a bit of new calf muscle. Isn't
that just like Dylan always concerned about the appearance of
his muscles.

Speaker 5 (15:49):
My delts are embarrassingly good today. Miouti does muscle shows
for sure.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
As IRV is climbing, he hears a voice from below
his position. It's Helena, who has somehow also appeared on
this bluff. Hey, no, it's not Helly, it's Helena. But
IRV isn't completely sure about this just yet. Helena is
also dressed in period winter gear. Everything is black, including
the cossick looking fur hat pushed down over her red hair.

(16:15):
The high contrast of the dark clothing in this all
white environment was definitely intentional. Where did you come from? Oh,
she came from the giant glasshouse located across the way
from the main Lumen building. But you can't know that.
Helena ops for a vague and clueless response, Oh no,
she's trying to sound like one of the gang. What
are we doing you here? Mark is shouting up here

(16:36):
from off in the distance. Yes, Mark, we know, which
is a mostly useless thing to say due to the echo.
We stay with Irv and Helena as they continue climbing
through the woods. The two climbers make their way out
onto Mark's bluff. He's still looking over the gorgeous but
frigid lake scene. Mak Hi runs across the bluff in

(17:01):
their direction.

Speaker 6 (17:02):
Are you okay?

Speaker 2 (17:03):
They were able to climb the bluff you're standing on,
so I'd say, yeah, they're okay, Irv Aci if Mark
woke up on the ice too.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
What about you on the cliff?

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Well, sure you could claim to wake up anywhere. They
didn't have to worry about getting Helena to a switch
point because she didn't switch. You've got about half a
second to realize we're down or refiner. When this happens
at the other end of the bluff, it's Dylan. He
emerges from the bushes onto a rock outcropping and he

(17:33):
Dylan is also swaddled in black wool with a cossick hat.

Speaker 6 (17:37):
Is it you?

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Of course it's this.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Dylan has the unchecked exuberance of an eleven year old
on summer vacation. Oh shit, how fucking side. Dylan's comments
here are the main reason I had to tick the
explicit box for this episode. Dylan reminds us Any's have
never been outside.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
I mean I knew there's no actual ceiling, but this fucking.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Insay, which reminds me of Gwendolyn from Grand Rapids and
her fascination with the sky. Helena decides to look for
other life in this desolate place. She walks to the
edge of the bluff.

Speaker 6 (18:11):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Her movement causes the others to turn in her direction.
This is when they first noticed the AV cart on
the next bluff. If you're over forty, no explanation necessary.
Those of you who were not in high school prior
to the turn of the century might not recognize a
multimedia audio visual cart. The TV sits on the top,
and it's not some four pound led flat screen. Nope.

(18:35):
These were the big, heavy CRT TVs, so they always
made the cart very top heavy. Hitting a threshold while
moving too fast with one of these carts caused a
lot of them to keel over and smash the TV.
This created immeasurable embarrassment for whatever av geek was pushing
the cart at the time. A media player of some

(18:56):
kind is necessary to feed content to the TV. This
player usually sits on the next shelf down. It might
be a VCR or a DVD player. Heckett might even
be a video disc player. Not sure what that is?
Google the term obsolete digital video formats to learn all
about it. We cut to a look at the bluff
from the reverse angle. On the next bluff, the mysterious

(19:17):
and slightly foreboding multimedia cart has suddenly appeared. You're right,
it was not in the previous shot when we were
first on the bluff looking this direction. You would also
be right if you said this av cart is not
plugged into anything. Another standard feature of these cards was
a power strip mounted to the back of one of
the shelves. The operator could plug the power strip into

(19:38):
the wall, then plug the TV and media devices into
the power strip. This cart has no strip, no power,
and no cables of any kind. How is this possible. Again,
I would direct you to the subjective reality of the
Innies as defined by series creator Dan Erickson. Some stuff
you just gotta go with. There's a phrase I've used

(20:00):
a couple of times in comment lines and in response
to emails. I'm surprised I haven't used it in the
podcast before. Now it's this. They aren't making a documentary.
All this stuff has only happened in Dan Ericksson's head.
Ben Stiller is skilled at taking those things that happen
in Dan's head and turning them into entertaining our long
chapters of television. In my opinion, we have luckily been

(20:23):
allowed to hear and see these tales being told by
Dan and envisioned by Ben. And yes, I know I'm
really simplifying, but go with me here. This tale is
ultimately being told by expert craftspeople and master storytellers who
have elevated the medium of episodic television to an art form.
We're here or we should be here, because we like

(20:45):
the stories these guys tell. We also like the way
they tell them. We're not here because they necessarily get
every fact in every detail exactly right, which is what
I mean when I say it's not a documentary. Jeremy
Hndall said they tried doing a few electric can data
plug ins for the av cart. They were mounted right
in a rock, kind of like what they did for
Lorn Down in Mammalian's Nurturable. Hindal said, after several different attempts,

(21:09):
nothing was working exactly right, they decided to go with
no plug ins and for that matter, no cables of
any kind. According to Ben Stiller, who approved this no
chord setup, quote, sometimes you want to pay attention to
the logic. Other times you assume the viewers can figure
it out for themselves, because you just want to live
in the imagery. Unquote. Living in the imagery means we

(21:31):
sometimes have to let the TV play without it being
plugged in.

Speaker 6 (21:36):
What is the.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
It's the cure anthem? We heard Cobel sing down on
the severed floor. It's a tinny epe bit rendition, but
this is most certainly the same song. Music director Theodore
Shapiro said his only direction here was quote, make it shittier.
Director Ben Stiller asked more than once if this piece
of music could sound even worse. Ultimately, Shapiro crunched it

(22:03):
down to this thin eight bit rendition that sounds kind
of like it's being done by a loungeack. As the
ENnies make their way over to the next bluff, we're
given a long distance overview shot of their location. This
setting adds additional fuel to my cure was given a
land grant theory. I think it also kind of kills
some theories saying this location is inside. Yes, I know

(22:25):
we've been told this severed floor is huge, but I
just don't think anything like this open space could exist underground.
A theory that might still hold water is the virtual
reality theory. Could the Macrodats be experiencing this outside scenario
via a headset of goggles or possibly through some even
more immersive VR experience. Maybe we've been assured the primary

(22:49):
experience on this severed floor is real, no matrix style
pseudo existence there we don't know about something like this
outbound retreat. Could this experience be a VR fears for
the senses while the Innnies are sitting in matrix style
dentist chairs. It would explain some of the weirdness like
this non electrified TV and DVD setup. The tiny speaker

(23:11):
in that TV is really getting some carry The four
Macrodats slowly approached the av cart, Mark actually reaches for
the DVD player on the second shelf. A remote is
laying there. Volunteer researcher Vinip discovered a fun detail about
the remote in an early cut of this episode. The
remote is still sitting there on the DVD player even

(23:31):
after Mark has picked it up and turned on the TV.
It's gone now, but Vinnie found is still showing it
sitting there with the TV on. I'll post it to
the Facebook page. We cut to a medium front view
of the TV. The cart itself is branded with a
lumin logo on the three x four standard DEF screen
as a DVD menu. It looks like the default menu

(23:52):
from whatever DVD authoring program they used. The word welcome
is across the top and a large font. The only
menu option is play title. In an oval to the side,
we can see a cropped image from the painting here
invite you to drink of his water. The menu background
is green, much like the green carpet from Mdr. Green
is the color of severed spaces. Mark It's play. A

(24:15):
momentary blue screen appears, then the smiling face of mister
Miltchik pops on. He's standing square onto the camera against
a white wall. Seth is stylin in a good looking
dark suit with a dark blue tie and lumen water
drop pin. Miltchic smiles and says good morning.

Speaker 5 (24:32):
Refiners.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Quick timeline check. This is a weekend retreat. Since mister
em is saying good morning, this would have to be
Saturday morning. The gang is going to hike and explore
all day today. They will wind up at camp by
this evening. In our overall timeline, I believe last night
would have been two weeks since the Galla and the
unauthorized OTC. The first week back involved messing around with

(24:55):
other macrodats. Now we've had a solid week with this
crew back at the Diamond Desk. I love how Seth
introduces himself.

Speaker 6 (25:04):
This is mister Milchick from work, as.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Though the Nies might not recall where they know him from, and.

Speaker 6 (25:09):
I'm thrilled to welcome you to your first ever outdoor
retreat and team building occurrence.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yep, it's an ort bow. Why are the Innes all
of a sudden getting an ort bow? It's Luman's response
to their desire to see the outside world. Luman is listening,
you know. I love the unspoken message here. You want
to see the outside, Here you go. The outside world
is cold, desolate, and lifeless. The only things you'll find
here are death and unpleasant conditions. Be careful what you

(25:40):
wish for, you stupid innies quick at side about the
term ort bow. You don't have to be great at
anagrams to see this word contains the same letters as
the word robot. This is not the only awkward anagram
we're going to run into this episode. I think these anagrams,
if they are even intentional, are a bunch of red
herrings being thrown into the mix. I'll point the others

(26:02):
out as we get to them, so you can decide
just how serious you think these are. And as you're
considering the weight of this ort bow anagram, this would
be a great time to wash your hands. Refiner Severed
will be right back.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
This is Mark Geller kier Egan on Severns. When I
want to hear the latest details about the company I founded,
I listened to Severed, the Ultimate Severance podcast.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
The Innies continue watching mister Miltchick's video message SETH has
been heavily edited in this DVD. Each edit creates a
weird jump He reminds me a lot of the Max
Headroom character from the mid nineteen eighties.

Speaker 6 (26:43):
With your Audi's blessings, you will spend the next two
calendar days walking the meadows, thickets, brambles, and brooks that
make up the Deeter Egan National Forest.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I'm pretty sure the two calendar days he's talking about
are Saturday, Today and Sunday. Woman would not want to
take any time away from the refiner's work down on
the severed floor by scheduling the ortbow during the week.
This is why most major corporations hold things like corporate
retreats and team building exercises on weekends. Participants might get

(27:14):
credit or even some extra pay, but ultimately the event
happened on their personal time. Seth said, this is the
Deeter Egan National Forest. The United States National Forest System
is a classification of protected and managed federal lands. The
forest system includes land in forty four states, Puerto Rico,
and the US Virgin Islands. I could find no mention

(27:36):
of Forest System lands located in any place designated PE.
There are currently one hundred and fifty four named national forests.
Not one of them is named for Deeter Egan. The
US National forest system makes up about eight and a
half percent of the total land area in the United States.
I believe Dylan spoke for all of us after hearing

(27:56):
this news.

Speaker 5 (27:57):
Who the fuck is Dieter Egan?

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Ah, But the crafty Seth headroom was prepared for this reaction,
Dieter Egan. We can tell it's a new take because
the camera cuts into a close up of Miltchik. Remember
how I called out the PD funeral video because it
was impossibly a two cameras shoot. I said they did
it because a one camera video was so boring. This
little production featuring Miltchik illustrates the incredible boredom of a

(28:22):
true one camera shoot. Seth does not read the room
on this next.

Speaker 6 (28:26):
Line, some of you may be quietly yearning to learn more.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Quietly, come on, you've met these people, right, mister Am
then drops a huge bombshell.

Speaker 6 (28:35):
The truth you seek lies within the fourth appendix.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
We've seen the original handbook plus the first three appendices
down on the severed floor. I strongly suspect the later
appendices may have been written much later, and possibly not
by Keir. I based this on the fact there's a
passage concerning how to handle departmental pictures. Miltchik provides a
timeline for this fourth and we must assume final appendix.

Speaker 6 (29:02):
Kir dictated a fourth appendix in his final hours of life,
A text of such sanctity that it is forbidden upon
the severn floor.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Whoa forbidden texts? It looks like he has the interest
of the Macrodats.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
It's waiting for you and Scissor Cave.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
This is perfect for a group of anies who're all
about twelve years old. Developmentally. Of course they're gonna love
a treasure hunt. But we need some rules, give us
some stakes, Seth. At this point, the video gets dark.
The shot cuts to an extreme close up. The framing
is so tight we're not seeing the top of sess head.
Up to this point, the narration has been dry. Now

(29:40):
we've got this eerie and ominous music in the background.
It's the same eight bit video game quality we heard
at the beginning, but it's very ominous. Seth explains the
importance of Scissor Cave.

Speaker 5 (29:53):
The very same grottover Kir.

Speaker 6 (29:55):
He contained the four tempers for the very first time.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
It's a quest they'll be following in the footsteps of
the founder. This is way better than some high adventure
executive ropes. Course in the woods I do.

Speaker 6 (30:07):
Remember straight not from Kears Path unless your royal Nature's wrath.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
There's a cut to our group of four there, standing
next to and slightly ahead of each other. They're spaced
perfectly across the frame, with Helena, the furthest away. They
get gradually larger in frame as we look right. This
is a fantastic frame. If they were a band, this
would make a great album cover. I actually thought this
was mimicking an album cover, which I'm certain I remember.

(30:36):
I probably spent longer than I should have searching for
an original, which I can clearly picture in my mind.
It felt like it could be you two, but I
couldn't find the corresponding original. If you have any idea
what album cover this might be, please drop me a
note to Severed Pod at gmail dot com. Cess Video continues.

(30:56):
Like any good video adventure game, these guys won't be
left completely alone while out on their quest.

Speaker 5 (31:02):
There will be held along the way.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
We get a great medium shot of the av card
and the panorama behind it. Sess's head appears to be floating.
It's a bit unsettling.

Speaker 5 (31:12):
Happy fortunes mdr.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
The screen abruptly cuts to blue with a tone, then
back to the basic DVD menu screen. The four are
left standing on the av bluff in the wind. Says okay,
so Miltchik told them the what, but not the where.
They all use the flat of their hand to create
a glare visor over their eyes. For a group of
people who've never been outside before, they picked this move

(31:35):
up quickly.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
What the fuck is that?

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Dylan is pointing in the distance back towards the bluff
where they started. There's a cut to a long shot.
Standing on a far bluff is the figure of a person.
It's not just any person either. It looks like Mark,
Yeah it does. This is Mark in a suit and
tie with no overcoat. As they are watching this distant
Mark raises his left arm. He is pointing to frame right,

(31:59):
which leads into the woods on the bluff. The Macrodats
are quietly watching this odd figure.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
Melchick said there'd be help along the way.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Of course, since it's lumin the help will probably be
creepy and unconventional. So this tracks the figure we saw
across the way is shadow Mark. Each of the four
Macrodats has a shadow entity with them on this trip.
The shadows provide direction key points along the journey. It
is never explained what these figures really are. They don't

(32:29):
wear outer coats, so they must not be susceptible to
the cold. They are silent, so maybe they don't speak.
They do seem to know where to go, which they
indicate by creepily pointing. We know this shadow Mark is
being played by American actor Adam Jepson. He was also
the guy we saw lurking in the hallway behind Mark
in the opening minutes of the season two premiere. I'll

(32:50):
introduce the other Macrodat shadows to you as we meet them.
Looking for shadow theories, the internet was full of guesses.
Clones always take a front seat when it comes to
these discussions. A common theory says the shadows are disposable
clones created from the DNA of each Macrodat. The DNA
was collected from skin cells sloughed off onto their keyboards

(33:12):
as they were refining. These shadows were created just so
they could perform up here on the mountain, and they
will be destroyed on Monday. Holograms also feature heavily in
shadow theories. The hologram theories say these three d entities
are being projected from above on the surface of the bluff.
They can be projected anywhere. They aren't really standing on

(33:33):
the ground, so it doesn't matter where they appear. This
theory also explains why some of the shadows seem to
be floating a couple of inches above the surface of
wherever they're placed, while others look like they've been planted.
In reality, these shadows are actors in a production with
huge amounts of visual effects in CGI, you'd expect something

(33:53):
as odd as these shadows to be CGI creations. That's
not the case. According to visual effects supervisor Eric Levin.
These are real people, but they're wearing three D printed
masks of the lead actors' faces. They aren't really putting
these poor people out on the bluffs with no code
and a full face mask. They were shot in York studios.

(34:13):
Once shot, these shadow images could then be composited on
the edges of cliffs and even on tops of waterfalls.
When I first saw these odd shadows in action, they
seemed familiar. As I was prepping for the epicap it
hit me. They looked like the episode of Lost where
Jack kept seeing his dead dad and his dad kept
pointing at things. I said, I'd get the details for

(34:36):
the rewatch, but that's really about all there is to it.
Jack's dad, Christian Shepherd, was played by John Terry. Christian
acted the same weird and silent way as these shadows
on Loss. The appearance of Christian was being generated by
the smoke Monster. These woes, hollow shadow figures seem to
be real, not a hallucination. It's possible they aren't people,

(34:56):
but they are real. IRV is not comforted by him
Milchik's promise of help.

Speaker 7 (35:01):
I wouldn't trust a word out of that amount of
Bank's bluff, not even televisionly.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
I was excited to hear the word montebank. This is
a vocabulary word we ran across and defined in my
last podcast, the WKRP Cast. A mountebank is a quack
who pedals, elictsurs and nostrums at fairs. The word was
coined in the fifteen hundreds. It comes from the Italian montembanco,
which means one who climbs on a bench. Mountebanks were
known for hopping up on benches to pedal their quack

(35:29):
medicines to fairgoers. Shadow Mark continues to creepily point to
the woods. His head slowly swivels in the direction of
his pointing hand, then swivels back to face the macrodads.
We're shown a nice reverse angle from the shadows perspective.
Another option for the reality of these shadows might be animatronics.
Lumann has experience we're going to see the animatronic cure

(35:50):
at the end of the season. We've also heard about
the animatronic Grand Rapid's perpetuity waning from Gwendolen, So maybe
popping a couple of animatronic refiners out here on the
bluffs wouldn't be a problem for Lumen. Even though RV
objects to trusting, miltchik Mark claims they don't have a
lot of other options right now. He leads the four
Black claud Refiners off the av bluff. Interesting little detail here, Mark, Helly,

(36:15):
and Dylan all actually leave the frame. RV is the
last one in the shot. Instead of leaving, RV's visage
fades from the screen in a dissolved to cloud cover.
RV's image is effectively wiped away, and with that we've

(36:36):
at the end of our literal cold open and ortbow
also means no theme music, and no extra wag animation.
Over a screen filled with clouds, we get the word
Severance in white with the line over the top. This
version of the word is integrated. There's no break in
the R. When I first saw this, I figured it
was a clue we were dealing with an integrated mark

(36:59):
during this episode. Nope, that's not what it means. It
was interesting when they put the R back together, but
I don't think the severed and unsevered versions of the
logo actually mean anything. Six seconds of sky title dissolves
to a drone shot following the Macrodats. They're trudging along
the rock outcroppings high above Lake Minawaska. This shoot really

(37:20):
did become an ort bow for the cast of Severance.
Shooting was a challenge, with many of the locations requiring
a SnowCat ride or a hike into the woods. In
off hours, they spent time together in a hotel near
the base of the mountains. They even had a roller
skating wrap party in Accord, New York. When the shooting
was finished. We follow the Macrodats along the lip of
the bluffs via down angle drone views. Once they've made

(37:42):
it back into the woods, there are long, slowly dissolving
close ups of each refiner. Clouds are rolling by, making
the sun a white ball in the sky. If the
Macrodats started the day in the morning, as Milchak said,
this means they are hiking and searching the entire day.
This montage must be covering quite a bit of hike time.
Watch the sun as we dissolve out of the sky

(38:04):
shot to the scene of the Refiners reaching a bluff.
The white ball of the sun stays in exactly the
same spot in the frame. Through the dissolve. The Macrodads
hold up at the edge of the bluff. Mark Pause
is looking down from their vantage point. He's spotted another
shadow before we see who it is. This would be
a great time for you to hit the vending machine, Refiner.
Severed will be right back.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Hello, Refiners, this is your beloved leader, Ker Egan. Actually
it's Mark Keller, who plays Ker Egan on Severance for
the latestn Stopping the MDR Rebellion. I like to check
in with Severed the Ultimate Severance podcast.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
The shadow we're seeing this time is very obviously Shadow Helly.
She's providing the gang with more creepy root information. This
shadow is dressed in Helly looking clothing, but muted. It's
not Helly's usual color scheme. She's standing oddly. Er hips
are raked in. Her head is at a strange angle.
It has been noted the angle of her head might
be mimicking how she looked during her suicide attempt. As

(39:10):
with the Mark, Shadow Helly raises a left arm and points.
Her right hand is on her hip. She's pointing into
a group of rocks. Is we'll discover is the entrance
to scissor Cave? They found it. Shadow Helly is being
played by Michee Petronelli. Miche is not an actress so
much as she's a dancer. Her eight performer credits are
all for parts identified as being dancers, except for this

(39:34):
shadow assignment on Severance. She also has eight additional crew
credits where she worked as either choreographer or assistant choreographer
on those shows where she was also a dancing performer.
I'm guessing Michee lives in New York because she's appeared
nine times on Saturday Night Live as a dancer and choreographer.
There's an unsettling eeriness to seeing these shadows out in

(39:57):
the woods. Dylan is looking to Mark an herv for
some reassurance Shadowhelly knew what she was pointing about. We
cut to a leading shot from inside a pretty narrow cave.
This must be the legendary Scissor Cave. We can see
the Macrodats approaching from the outside. Mark is leading the group,
peering down into the small opening in the rock. Where
they are is an actual cave in the Minawasca Park.

(40:20):
It is only accessible on foot. The Macrodats were taken
to the closest access point via SnowCat and had to
hike the rest of the way in. It was thirty
minutes of walking through some pretty rough terrain. This was
the same route taken by camera, sound and lighting equipment.
Everything used for this shoote was carried half an hour
on foot through the woods to the shoot site. This

(40:41):
included the very heavy storage batteries needed to keep everything running.
I don't know what happened here, but Vinnie p and
I both noticed a continuity glitch is the Macrodats enter
the cave. Mark is very definitely the first guy in
this very narrow and rocky cave. We cut to a
close up as he's picking through a fall of rocks
in the entrance. Helly is next behind him. There's a

(41:02):
pan up to IRV and Dylan, then a cut to
Helena's face. Somehow after the cut, she is now leading
the group. Mark must have stepped aside, but it didn't
look like he had enough room. Helena has seen something
up ahead. It's a lighted something. This is weird because
you don't usually find light fixtures mounted to the walls

(41:22):
of caves.

Speaker 6 (41:23):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Sure, as tourists we become somewhat used to lights in caves.
I live in Missouri. We have caves all around us,
and they've all already been explored and renovated. The cave
owners put in things like lights and smooth walking paths
so tourists can have a safe caving experience. Scissor Cave
does not strike me as a tourist destination, yet it
has this lighted shelf mounted on the wall. On the

(41:46):
shelf is an imposing looking volume stamped in enormous characters.
On the front of the book are the capital letters
I and V in Roman numerals. This would be four.
As with any good adventure game, we've followed the clues
and are being real arted. With a look at the
fourth appendix, to the lumin handbook. Before we begin to
peruse volume four, a quick comment about this place. Many

(42:08):
viewers had this sense this Ortbow was being staged in
an area much like disney World. Nothing is real so
much as it has been created with a sense of
realness in mind. It would explain this real looking cave
that's somehow been wired for electric lights. These folks who
subscribe to this theory believe the entire Deeter Egan National

(42:29):
Forest is a construction akin to Disney World or Universal
Studios in Orlando. It's a safely curated adventure for the refiners,
but it has the feel of being wild and unpredictable.
It's what happens when you take away concession stands and bathrooms,
you're left with a theme park that feels wild. Helena
approaches the volume slowly, almost reverently. Mark and IRV move

(42:51):
in next to her in front of the shelf. Helena
is the first to reach out and actually pick up
the book. This reminds me of her of Mark and
Dylan standing in front of the chair that held the
uure nobody wanted to touch it. The volume Helena picks
up looks smaller in her hands than I was expecting.
Then when they start to flip through it, it feels
a lot bigger than what I thought it would be.

(43:12):
She opens to the title page and we see the
dedication for Dieter. Helena then turns this page to reveal
a large and ornate header Chapter one. According to Jeremy Hindel,
this book existed in multiple forms and sizes. The shooting
book what we're seeing in these close up shots of
the pages was about thirty inches tall or seventy six centimeters.

(43:34):
As Hindel says, it's huge that details of the drawings
and lettering were easier to shoot in the larger format
When a character is carrying the volume or reading from it.
The version they used was much smaller. Hindel said it
was unbelievable the amount of work and collaboration that went
into all the different versions of this one book. The
name Dieter is a masculine given name of Germanic origin.

(43:58):
The Old High German word was a precursor. The name
translates to warrior of the people. Those who bore this
name traditionally had a commitment to protecting and leading their community.
We'll discover this is not a description of Deeter Egan,
refiner and podcast listener Carsten k sends greetings from Germany,
a place where Carston says Dieter is a totally common name,

(44:20):
at least if you're over fifty years old. This shot
of the first page of chapter one tilts down slightly
to reveal the first lines of text.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Haves not born into this world alone.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
There's a cut to a close up of Helena's face
as she reveals new information from this sacred tome.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
The lodgings of my mother's womb I shared with another.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
This is groundbreaking stuff. The innies have never known anything
about this.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Other a twin brother who was called Dieter.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
There's another anagram brew haha going on here. If you
rearrange the letters in the name Dieter Egan, one of
the options you get is AI generated. This angered a
lot of viewers, and I'm not exactly sure why. I
don't even know what it is that would be AI
generated this story, this character. Since it's never brought up

(45:07):
again the entire season, I'm leaning towards the idea this
is a coincidence. It so happens this AI generated information
came out at a time when AI was all over
the news, and not in a good way. Deeter Egan
is in name with a lot of vowels and popular
letters in it. Don't believe me check any episode a
Wheel of Fortune. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to

(45:29):
create quite a few different anagrams from this name. I
quickly ran it through a scrambler and came up with
over two hundred and twenty word or phrase combinations. There
were a couple of other alternatives I really enjoyed. Deeter
Egan is also an anagram for eating a deer and
gained a tree Gained a tree as my favorite. Sure

(45:51):
it's dark, but it's also hilarious considering what happens to
old Deeter. So do you think Helena Egan has heard
this Deeter story before? Miltchik said this appendix wasn't allowed
on the severed floor, but it sounds like it might
be known otherwise. We did see the sign for the
band named Dieter's Brother. This appendix four story must be
common knowledge among audies who follow kir I'm betting Helena

(46:14):
Egan may have studied this story as part of her
homeschool Lore of Egan classes for a group who have
been fed nothing but shriveled raisins and kure legends their
whole lives. This information is a bombshell. Well, remember it's
according to his own account. But yeah, he claims to
have had a twin. Could kir be trusted to provide

(46:37):
clear and accurate reporting while on his deathbed? Maybe? I
don't think Kre was all that trustworthy. At any point
in his life. He made up stories to serve his needs.
An example would be Stu Man and an ether factory.
Truth in Kirr's stories seems to have always been optional.
Could he have made up this Deeter story as a

(46:57):
way to save his own troubled conscience? Oh yeah, I'd
say that's a very definite possibility. Doesn't matter if it's
fantasy or truth. This appendix is the word of Kre,
so I'm sure it has been studied by both Egans
and Luminites alike. Dylan sees a parallel between Deeter's twin
and their adventures today.

Speaker 5 (47:17):
That's what those things are.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Things seems to be an apt description for the shadows
there certainly don't seem human. This means Dylan sees the
shadows as twins to the macrodats interesting. Helena continues to
read from the newly discovered appendix. Kere says, in infancy
he and his twin were best buds.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Does be blossomed into boyhood? He beseeched me to take
to the wood with him, to live as paupers.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Dieter, it turns out as the granola crunching hippie of
the Egan clan live as paupers. He's a barking, mad communist.
I can see Jame angrily spitting a few choice words
in Peter's face if he ever had the chance to
meet him. While working at the ad Agency, I handle
the accounts of several companies that had been owned by
generations of a single family. This Deeter situation is not unusual.

(48:03):
Being born into wealth and power can cause some people
to rebel against the life they've been given. These wealth
naysayers don't feel like it's fair they should be given
so much while others go without. Some just don't want
the pressure or responsibility that comes with running a massive corporation.
It's not that they want to give it all up.
They love the perks, but they're not motivated to keep

(48:24):
making the pile bigger. Deeterer seems to have been a
part of this ilk. Surprisingly, Keir claims he goes to
live with Deeder, I.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Ac seated and we ventured into the wood.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Towards There's a pause here as she turns the page.
Only two words are visible on the next page, Woo's Hollow,
and we get the name of the episode. So do
you think this place was named Woe's Hollow before Dieter
and Keir's visit or is this a name Kir gave
to the place after his experiences. There's a cut to

(48:56):
one of the volume four pages. This is a beautiful
reprint of an image titled Map to woes Hollow. Painter
and illustrator Danny of Viles is the real life artist
behind this very cool illustration. The camera does his slow
tilt up over the entire image. The bluffs are capped
by a waterfall we've not seen yet.

Speaker 6 (49:14):
So.

Speaker 5 (49:16):
We walk in the brother's footsteps.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
The quest continues. Of course, Luhmann couldn't do anything as
simple as hold a weekend camp out. They must infuse
it with all this weird twin brother mythology. The page
turns from the Woe's Hollow map to reveal another passage.
The text we're allowed to see on the turned page
is then read to us by both Irving and by
the voice of Keir, as he does throughout the series.
Friend of the podcast Mark Geller is providing the voice

(49:42):
of Kir here. Mark said he recorded this in about
February of twenty twenty four. The story, IRV reads his
floury and handles the subject matter delicately without all the flourish.
What Kure describes is Deeter getting up in the night,
walking out into the floora of the forest. Once he's
in the trees, he unf assens his pants and masturbates
in the woods. IRV continues to read as the Macrodats

(50:05):
are hiking through a deep field.

Speaker 8 (50:11):
Crickets from the moaning of the women.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
This is an extended passage. It sounds like Kiir may
have spent quite a bit of time with Peter. They
get to the yearly thaw. Kirk claims Deeter became an
instrument of nature that night, and nature.

Speaker 5 (50:26):
Played Dita with elegantness.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
This is some rude and crude content, but Kir is
making it palatable to even the most sensitive reader.

Speaker 7 (50:35):
I add no choice but to listen as he spilt
his lineage of coon the soil.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Check out the burnt and twisted remains of the trees
they're walking through. This entire area was subjected to a
controlled burn the previous fall. It's healthy for the forest,
but the aftermath looks horrible. The blackened and blasted out
trees added to the eeriness of the surroundings. The group
stops on a ridge and some strong wind. They're all
looking down at something. The reverse cut reveals Shadow Dylan

(51:04):
in a suit and tie with his blue MDR Key
card around his neck. This doppelganger is standing out in
a field of snow as the four watch. Shadowed Dylan
also raises a left arm and points to frame right.
The fact that all the shadows pointed in the same
direction caused some theorists to speculate the Macrodats were being
led around in a circle. Considering the extensive hiking we've

(51:26):
seen in various montages. I don't think that's the case.
We don't know which way the Macrodats are facing at
any time when they see a pointing shadow. We also
don't know how far they've traveled between shadows. Shadow Dylan
is being played by American actor Quentin Avery Brown. Quentin
has five IMDb credits dating back to twenty fifteen and

(51:47):
eight stage credits. He started his TV career in a
twenty fifteen episode of the Fatal Attraction TV series. Like
Hellyar's Shadow, Quinton is also a dancer. Two of his
five TV and movie credits for dancing rolls. Dylan is
a bit weirded out by the whole thing. It's like
this shadow's feet are buried in the snow. I love

(52:09):
the macrodat reaction shots. Make sure to check out the construction,
especially on the wide shot before we follow Dylan's shadow.
This would be a great time for you to get
a cup of coffee refiner. Severed will be right back.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Hello, refiners, It's Mark Keller kier Egan on Severance. Don't
let your dreary, dead end job get you down. Do
what I do for a workday pick me up. Listen
to Severed, the Ultimate Severance Podcast.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
After the encounter with Dylan's shadow, there's a slow dissolved
to more of those passive icicles fighting desperately to hang
on to tree limbs. The hike to the hollow continues.
Mark stops in front of a wall of rock. After
catching her breath, Helen says, yeah, she is, so I
know where we were going HERV was lagging behind and
now taken a seed at a bend in the trail.

(53:02):
He's back just far enough he can see Mark and Helena,
but he can't hear what they're saying, or watches the
conversation with interest. As erv is looking concerned, A winded
Dylan comes around the bend in the trail. Fuck, there's
quite a bit more hiking in the context of the story.
These guys walk the entire day. There's a great transition

(53:25):
using a tree in the foreground of Seated IRV. It
entirely wipes into a new scene with even more walking.
We're only seeing a few minutes of what must be
an hour's long hike. Check the snow flocked trees. Some
of this is CGI, but a lot of it is
either real snow or practical effects. The production was not
shy about physically flocking trees if necessary for various shots.

(53:48):
They use the same kind of pseudo snow on trees
around the lumin parking lot. Most of the snow on
the ground was created by machines, so the macrodats would
have something to walk through. Jeremy Hindele estimates anywhere from
seventy to ninety percent of the snow you're seeing in
this episode is CGI. Most of the rest came from
snow machines. Since Jeremy Hindle worked closely with Industrial Light

(54:08):
and Magic throughout post production, he would be the guy
who most knows which snow is reel versus what's fake.
We follow Mark and IRV as they're trudging along. According
to Ben Stiller, this is real snow falling here. We're
coming up on the seal scene. Ben said they happened
to get about three hours of real falling snow during
the shoot for this scene. They rushed to get it

(54:30):
all finished so they could have real snow in the shots.
IRV takes advantage of being up ahead with Mark as.

Speaker 5 (54:36):
What even Helly talking about that?

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Before he can answer, we cut away to Dylan traveling
with Helly. They seem to be stuck in some limbs.
Cut back to Mark, who doesn't know what IRV is
talking about back where.

Speaker 5 (54:50):
I don't trust.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Yeah, that was kind of obvious after your blunt interrogation
from the other day. IRV tells Mark he thinks she's
lying about what her audi's saw during the OTC.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
Why would you think that.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Mark has obviously not been following the discussion on Reddit,
Mike Godness and just the general I'm not really Helly vibe.
She's been spreading around the severed floor. Those who aren't
in love with her any have seen it. Britt Lauer
has played around with a music analogy in various interviews
as a way to describe the difference between her Any
and Audi personas. In one Q and A session, she

(55:25):
compared the different versions of Helena to the difference between
hearing a song on an album than seeing the same
song performed live. You realize it's the same song and
the same artist, but it sounds different live. That one
is okay, but I preferred an alternate take on this analogy.
In another interview, she said comparing Any Helly to Audi
Helena was like comparing two different albums by the same group.

(55:48):
You can tell it's the same group, but the message,
the tone, everything is different from one album to the other.
IRV thinks Mark's judgment is being clouded. It's clear you
do not have an object to prospective duty of feelings
for her. This Ryles Mark up a bit. He claims
his feelings for her don't mean anything. When he is
cut short he's seen something up ahead. We cut to

(56:10):
a wide shot. Helena and Dylan are just catching up
to Mark an IRV. There's a lump of something organic
in the stream in front of them.

Speaker 9 (56:18):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Mark approaches whatever it is slowly.

Speaker 5 (56:21):
The fuck.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
The camera tilts down to look at the poor beastie
who has met its demise in the stream.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (56:28):
The other ENnies stay well back. They're standing three across
on a little rise. As Mark bends down to get
a better look at whatever this is, let's unc seal.
The creative team knew the Macrodats would be finding a
dead animal along this route. The outside world is being
portrayed to them as nothing but cold, hard and deadly.

(56:48):
It would follow they should find something dead while on
their journey. There was a lot of discussion as to
exactly what kind of dead animal they would find. The
debate started with a hybrid creature of some kind. It
should be something both unrecognizable to the innies and to
us as viewers. This idea was scrapped because why confuse everyone.
The decision was made to only confuse the innies. A

(57:10):
seal ultimately became the option because it was so unlikely
to be here, as in any would you know a
seal doesn't live in a mountainous climate. Some theorists also
believe the seal is a nod that the TV series lost.
The animal that didn't belong Unlost was a polar bear.
Seals are the dietary mainstay of polar bears, to the
tune of about fifty seals per year per bear. Allowing

(57:34):
Mark to recognize the seal was another chance to get
into the question of what gets through the severed barrier
and what doesn't. Mark gets this is a seal, but
it doesn't strike him as odd that a seal would
somehow wind up here by a freshwater lake in a
mountainous region. The thing in the water is an actual thing,
but it's not organic. This corpse of a dead seal

(57:56):
was created by severan staff sculptor Pinko Platinkon. Pinko is
the sculptor who has created every carved or sculpted item
in the series, from the statue of Cure in the
town Square to the tiny figure of Cure wearing a
swimsuit in Miss Wong's game. Working from photographs of dead seals,
Pinkos set out to build a lifelike seal corpse. He

(58:17):
sculpted several versions of the beast out of foam, fake furs, lacquer,
and latex. The created creature was presented to Hindle Stiller
and propmaster Cat Miller for proofing. They had changes, of course,
at one point, Miller said it felt like they were
reverse engineering the decay of this seal corpse. Helena looks
genuinely upset at the sight of the creature.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Why does it look so messed up?

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Mark tells her maybe this is what dead things look like.
The Niese you remember are shielded from death on the
severed floor, at least mister Miltchik would like them to
think they are.

Speaker 7 (58:50):
I think this is a good time to remind ourselves
that things like deaths happen outside of here, not here.
A life at Lumen is protected from such things.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
We'll find out later this season more talk of death
takes place down on the severed Floor than you'd imagine.
All this hiking has made IRV a bit angry. We
should eat it. No, I don't think we should. Dylan
is stunned by this comment.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
Pardon me.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
IRV is worried. He says, they don't even know if
there's any food waiting for them at the hollow. This
thing could be dinner. They don't know. Maybe they shouldn't
pass up the opportunity to eat. We don't even know
where we are. Irv's getting almost panicky. Dylan sounds concerned,
but he still has faith in the company. They can't
let anything happen to us. It's an ort bow. Surely

(59:39):
everybody is going to be safe during an ort bow,
right Mark. IRV wheels on Dylan. He's hot. He says,
they don't know what this is. We don't know anything,
and Irv's hungry, so let's eat some seal. Wow, when
you think about it, how is he even planning to
prepare that? Just grab a hunk and chewse some blubber
Irving calm down, Mark says, they all know his last

(01:00:01):
outside experience was a bad one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Who said I had a bad experience.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Well, uh, you didn't specifically say it, but there was
the screaming and pounding on the elevator door. Then there
was almost practically locking yourself in the bathroom where you
were obviously crying. None of these things are indicative of
a positive outy experience.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
What did you tell him, dumbass?

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
It's true, IRV came clean with Dylan in the hall
outside the severed barrier. But Dylan didn't say anything, or
did he? Would you say, Dylan nothing? What the fuck? See?
He didn't say anything? Mark is impatient. This is a
waste of valuable ort. Bow time. Let's just get to
the hollow. Wow, if luoks could kill. IRV gives Dylan

(01:00:42):
one last glare before turning to follow Mark. We get
a couple more close ups to the dead and decaying
seal before leaving the scene. Are you a bit shaken
up by the dead seal? Refiner? I can understand this
would be a great place for us to take a break.
I can tell you need a rest. The trek to
the hollow will continue next time. For now, you need
to close the Woes Hollow file and reflect on the

(01:01:04):
sanctity of life on the severed floor. Aren't you glad
it's not all crazy and gross like it is here
in the outside world. Thanks for joining me this time around, Refiner.
Also a huge thanks to volunteer Researcher of n ep
for helping track down the details regarding this amazing episode.
Quick reminder before you leave, get to this Severed Patreon page.
Support the Severed podcast by pledging five dollars a month.

(01:01:26):
Signing up is easy. Go to patreon dot com slash
Severed pod. That's patreon dot com slash Severed Pod. Patron
refiners get early and commercial free access to podcast episodes. Plush,
you're helping me to supplement my retirement income. We'll talk
again next week during part two, when we break down
the stunning conclusion to woes hollow, big secrets are revealed,

(01:01:49):
there's a huge death. It's everything you could want out
of a Severance episode. Until then, it's time to shut
down your workstation and get to the elevator. Refiner. Thanks
for being here, and as always, please stagger your exits.

Speaker 8 (01:02:01):
You've been listening to Severed, the Ultimate Severance Podcast. Severed
is written, produced, and hosted by Alan Stair.

Speaker 9 (01:02:08):
Severed is not endorsed by Red Hour Productions, Endeavor Content,
or Apple TV Plus. This podcast is intended for entertainment
and informational purposes only.

Speaker 8 (01:02:18):
Severance, the Severance logo, and all video and audio of
Severance and Severance characters are registered trademarks of Red Hour,
Endeavor Content, Apple TV Plus, or their respective copyright holders.

Speaker 9 (01:02:30):
Please make sure to leave a five star rating and
review for Severed at Apple Podcasts.

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