June 4, 2025 • 35 mins
How did we make this funny?
We’re that good !
From Belarus to Beverly Hills, permanent makeup artist Daria Angelopolo has transformed thousands of faces while pioneering revolutionary techniques that have redefined an industry. Alongside her husband Kostas, Daria shares her remarkable journey from winning the American green card lottery to becoming one of the most sought-after eyebrow artists in Los Angeles.
The conversation takes us through the fascinating evolution of permanent makeup techniques, from the early days of microblading (which Daria helped introduce to America) to the more refined ombre brows, and finally to today's state-of-the-art "fluffy strokes" - a gentle technique that combines machine-applied hair strokes with shading for stunningly natural results that work on all skin types.
What truly stands out is Daria's commitment to skin health above all else. "The most important thing for us is the skin of the client first, not the results," she explains, detailing why newer techniques have replaced microblading for most applications. Her passion becomes particularly evident when discussing her work with cancer survivors, alopecia patients, and those suffering from trichotillomania. For these clients, permanent makeup isn't merely cosmetic - it's transformative, restoring confidence during challenging life periods.
The episode concludes with practical advice for anyone considering permanent makeup: how to choose an artist (experience matters!), what to expect during the healing process (patience is key!), and pre-treatment recommendations. Whether you're beauty-curious or considering permanent makeup yourself, this conversation pulls back the curtain on an art form that's literally changing faces - and lives. Follow Daria on Instagram @goldenbrows to see her stunning work!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are listening to, watching, hearing, smelling,
tasting and feeling sex, drugsand skin care.
Like and subscribe.
Hey, welcome back to Sex, drugsand Skin Care.
I am Nikki Davis Jr, licensedcomedian, stand-up esthetician.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good, good, you're more confident in that.
Last week you didn't really youdidn't know your name.
No, yeah, I'm Nikki Davis.
That was weird.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah.
But this week you sound likeyou know it more, I knew it
better, I practiced, I had somepractice.
How long does it take?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
you to learn your name before the show?
I don't know, I forget aftereach show.
Well, okay, all right, I'm justsaying you know you could
probably prep the this later.
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Couples counseling, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I am a 25 years experienced esthetician plus a
stand-up comedian.
This podcast I'm just trying togive like an explanation up
front for people.
So this is the only skincareand comedy podcast that I'm
aware of, and so we like tointroduce different topics about
beauty and skin care.
Hit the subscribe button andthe like button.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And even if you don't like or want to watch it again,
you don't have to like anythingor watch it, just pretend.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Just pretend, and that's most like most of our
friends.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, it's most of my life, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know they say you fake it till you make it.
Yeah, I don't know when makingit is, you just keep faking it,
right.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
You just keep on faking it.
Oh, you know what it?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
is Fake it till you, make it to death, that's what it
is.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh, that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, I think that's the entire thing.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
By the way, you guys are allowed to laugh if you want
, but don't feel pressured tolaugh.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, they're just shooting.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
so many mean looks already oh my gosh, this is his
first time.
I think we've had a couple yeah, a couple yeah you're not too
sure things right now?
No, I'm not.
I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think it is the first time we've had a couple
aside from us right.
Yeah, that's right.
I keep forgetting we'retogether.
That's so weird.
You wish well?
No, I don't wish, I keepforgetting, I keep forgetting.
Uh, it's the first time we'vehad a couple yeah so it feels
pretty good, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It's like, finally we have somebody that you know
after the show I can be like sois she weird too?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
You know what I mean.
We can compare, because youknow Guess who you guys are.
You're both talking About me,though.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, what's Nikki like when you're, when you want
to?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
St.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You have the power that you do.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But I'm excited for today's show because, speaking
of that, yeah, oh, stabbing inthe face.
I was going to say you have,that was good actually, thank
you, but I don't want it to meanlike that.
No, you don't have to reiteratestabbing in the face.
We're not trying to say thathere.
No, no, no.
But you have experience withthese guests.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I have.
Okay, so I met them.
My hairdresser referred me to Ilove that book, by the way.
My hairdresser, my hairdresserreferred me.
Yeah, it's a book.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think it's a Dr Seuss book.
It's when the cat in the hatafterwards.
All right, that's enough.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I like to try jokes that don't work.
That's one of the best ones.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, they really don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Neither, neither do I .
I'm holding back a cough rightnow, so much.
You should drink some water, Iknow, but I have to finish
talking and then when the cameragoes to somebody else, then I
can do that I'm holding on to it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
That's so why she's old school.
You're doing old school theJohnny Carson days.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I'm also trying to like I'm having trying to have
keep my ponytail on one side,because I focused it towards the
other side.
I have a fake ponytail on, solet, so since I'm going to be
facing this way every once in awhile, I want my ponytail to be
on this side.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I get it.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You can't tell if you're listening and not
watching.
You can't tell which side myponytail is on.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Not at all, but I do think that it's very natural to
do this with your hair Just keepmoving it over.
Is that real?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
There's actually a pole in here, so I could just
bend it a little bit more.
Oh yeah, because you that'sright, it wraps around the hair.
Yeah, it's like a.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Christmas tree ornament or something.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, feel it now it's because it's so old, feel
it.
It feels like horse, likereally bad horse hair, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
It feels like it feels like you.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Just when you got home, you took it feels like it
just feels like the desert, yeah, desert hair, desert hair there
.
It was okay, um so okay.
So these guests that are goingto be here today, we're
splitting this episode into two.
They are also a couple, as Imentioned, um, one of the cup of
the one part of the couple,that's good yes yeah, yeah okay,
the first one I feel like Iwant to introduce, but okay,
(04:28):
well, they both work in the sameplace because A they're married
and B they both do similarthings but also different.
I met both of them by gettingmy lips blushed, which I
probably should have done oncamera.
That would have been really fun.
I think I was trying to hold it,but it was kind of not working
because you're, you know, likeum but and then you get kind of
(04:49):
sleepy, believe it or not okay,I can see that but um, so yeah,
so right now, um should I justnormally have you introduce
people, but since you don'treally know them, I don't know
them that well and I feel likeyou have like a connection with
them yeah and they've andthey've done things that I want
to do sometimes to you.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You know just what's up.
I can't, I don't, I don't wantto hit your face.
I'm not saying that, I'm justsaying they don't hit me.
No, I'm not.
I'm just saying, like you know,because I went like this with
my hand I wanted I'm not someone, I'm not what I mean.
No, I mean I'd love maybe, maybea slap, but that I wouldn't hit
you.
No, like a sexy slap.
Yes, a sexy slap.
But they've also seen you.
You know, when you're relaxedand you're also really, you know
(05:24):
, puffy and you, they get to putneedles into your face and I
wonder what that's like I'm justwondering, you know, just like
an acupressure thing.
You know you do as a coupleyeah, to relieve stress for the.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
For the other person, it's voodoo therapy.
Thank you, yeah, voodoo therapy.
There we go um.
Yeah, okay, well, so they bothwork in a place called uh, I was
gonna say, I almost blew itagain golden brows is the name,
is the full name of your entireum, and they're in beverly hills
, um, and I guess we're gonnatalk to, we're gonna talk to you
first, is that right?
We're so, um, usually we movepeople to the couch so coming to
(05:59):
their own couch, please welcome.
what do you call yourself, bythe way?
Permanent makeup artist.
Permanent makeup artist.
Yeah, yeah, okay, dariaAngelopolo.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Did I say that right?
Thanks for having us.
My pleasure, I think you saidit right enough.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, you're never going to say it, did you?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
think I was actually going to actually people talk
about stuff all the time, Didyou think I?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
would actually drag you guys down here.
I mean, it's a very nicesurprise, because we've never
been together on the show.
That's cool.
It's kind of a different anglefrom us.
I like it.
I'm happy to experience that.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
You guys should have your own reality show, actually.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
We're not so funny though.
No, I bet you are he is morefunny I I'm a little bit more.
You know like, uh, people askme.
You know, like, what is yourfunny side?
I'm like, I don't know.
Like I'm, I'm a little bitboring in this.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Well, you're good at what you do, and that's all that
matters.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
I'm sure she's I'm create.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You're yeah, you're a , you do, and that's all that
matters.
I'm sure she's.
I'm creative yeah, you're acreative, exactly, and that's
all that matters, withoutseeming like I'm trying to like,
push you, like as a product,but you are so freaking great at
what you do.
Thank you and tell me, okay,first of all, I know that you do
.
You do microblading, right.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So we used to do microblading right, so we used
to do microblading, okay, oh, no, touch on that, yeah because we
actually brought microbladingin the united states and we're
the first academy to teach andwe taught like thousands of
students but I don't do anymicroblading now you don't okay
we're gonna touch on thedifferent procedures that are oh
(07:43):
, it's, oh, it's a differentthing now.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Okay, so wait.
Okay, so then you came from.
Tell me the story, give me alittle bit of a background.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Okay, so I'm originally from Belarus and at
age of 18, I moved to Greece,where she's pointing to her
husband I met.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, who is Greecece ?
Yes, I met costas in greece.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
we got married there and we moved together in in la
already like 11 years.
Okay, I've been here.
So I started a career inpermanent makeup back in greece
and you know like back then thefacebook groups were like a big
thing, you know, and people wereactually like supporting each
(08:26):
other and like being likebuilding a community.
So I started to post mymicroblading work, which was
also very new back in Europe,and people were like what's that
?
What do you mean hand done?
You know, because microbladingyou do it without machine, you
do it by hand.
So they were like wow, I likeyour.
(08:46):
So I created a little bitalready hype about my name
before we moved here.
And then when we moved here,there were people like lining up
by themselves Wow, I would liketo learn this.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So we like moved really fast and started to teach
people here to do microbladingwere you ever afraid that, like
if you taught too many people,it would cut into your business?
Or did you even care?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
that's actually what happened.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Probably really, yeah it was so, so big the business
back then.
You know, like with thestudents that you cannot think
this.
You just want you know, to jumpin the opportunity you know
yeah, it's crazy opportunityyeah, but a lot of my, our
students are teaching others,yeah of course it's the name of
the game you know yeah everybodywant to jump for the money,
(09:35):
it's true I almost trained forto do it.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I thought about it but I was like I don't know if
it's a, it's a commitment, likeI didn't know if I wanted to do
that all the time, because I'man esthetician too, yeah, um.
Yeah, but I can see why peoplewould just jump on, especially
around that time is when itreally was starting to get hot
here.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, when we're like at the right place you slid
right in there, yes, the bestcountry in the world, the best
state in the world.
You know, like the beauty ofthe beauty here.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, you think this is better than Greece?
Yeah, what?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
do you mean the opportunity here?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh, the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, okay, yeah.
First of all, it's the bestcountry in the world, the
country that I said always isthe country that you can dream.
The dreams are awake in thiscountry.
The state also helped usbecause of the beauty, so much
it was the peak of our life.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Oh, that's not so nice.
That's really nice, it soundsvery much like.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
My dad was very much the same way he always said all
the time, it's the best countryin the world because of that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
His dad was from Italy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So he was very much.
He came here, you know when hewas, I don't think it was like
20 something, so he was justalways raving.
You know, this is the bestcountry, no matter what.
It gave him the opportunity.
Yes, it is, I love my country.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Sure, I love my country.
It's not that I compare, youknow, like the two countries,
but here is the land ofopportunity.
It is the opportunity, thedream is always awake.
You never know when you willhit something, and you will.
You will be, you know, likemulti million, successful or
celebrity or this, whatever itcan happen only in this country
(11:10):
well, we're glad to have youwelcome.
Now we're American citizens,that's awesome congratulations
we actually won a green cardlottery.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
He won.
I applied, he won.
So if one of you wins, it doyou both get it.
We actually won a green cardlottery.
Whoa he won.
I applied, he won.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So if one of you wins it, do you both get it?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Yes, because we were married already.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And this was while you were living in Greece.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And then, okay, you had come here and then, or you
were just like no.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Daria had one question and she said she came
to me and said you know what Iwant to live?
You know, like my dream, I wantto live something big.
And because I worked with oneGreek American guy for many
years me and my father for manyyears we are distributors in
Greece of this guy so I flewhere a couple of times and I saw
the big dream, I saw the biglife, I saw his life and I was
(12:01):
so jealous and I said to my wifeif you want to live your dream,
you want to live you know theamazing life.
We need to go to los angeles.
So we came with daddy a coupleof times for vacation and we go
back.
We went back in greece.
I say I'm in love with losangeles.
Now I want to move over there.
So we started watching thissecret oh yeah so we sit down
together and we make one bigdream that we are moving one day
(12:23):
in Los Angeles without havingany solution.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
We couldn't move.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
So one friend of hers , we fly in for vacation in her
country, belarus, and her bestfriend gave me the lucky $2 bill
and she said apply for thegreen card lottery and you will
win.
And I said what is green cardlottery?
She said it's a lottery likeyou win the lotto, apply and
(12:49):
maybe you have a chance.
So she applied because I haveno idea how to do this and the
second time I won the, the greencard that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
No, there is a thing like people living in the us.
They don't know that there issuch a thing so like there are
people and they give somepercentage for each country
because they want this diversity, you know.
So there is like a smallpercent of like two percent for
greek people or like fivepercent for russian like.
So, like for differentcountries, yeah, and they like
(13:20):
pick randomly.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
They say randomly selected Are you sure they
didn't see pictures of you guysand they're like, yeah, I got
these guys.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
No with pictures, just voice samples.
Yeah, just voice samples.
I like the way they sound.
Yeah, good voice.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, so then you came here, and then did you
immediately put together thePermanent Makeup University.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
That's what you called it right away.
So yeah, because I waspracticing it before in Greece
already, you know like, andpeople were asking we moved so
fast.
We moved here in July,beginning of July, and then in
August we already opened theacademy.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
It wasn't like an academy.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
The small academy.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
But yeah, it was like a training room and two extra
rooms and you started six months.
We opened a bigger academy, wemoved to the other place.
Bigger place was more, yeah, soit just was like perfect it was
meant to be.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It was meant to be, yeah it was meant to be okay, so
then.
So you were doing microblading,right?
So then tell me now what you'redoing.
Um, first of all, if you don'tknow what microblading is, can
you explain what that is?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Microblading became so popular, everybody learned
what is microblading.
It's a handheld tool and you dohair strokes like small
incisions.
You kind of cut in the skin soyou create small strokes and you
rub the pigment inside andthat's how it's staying in your
skin.
It's like a prison tattoo, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
But beautiful yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, I guess.
So Nikki used to be inmarketing.
Everything was like a prisontattoo.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
We're trying to sell pizza.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I don't understand.
It's like a prison tattoo.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, but there were a lot of like downfalls with
these techniques trying to sellpizza?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I don't understand.
Okay, you can present tattoo.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah, okay, but there there were a lot of like
downfalls with these techniquesbecause, over time, because of
the cut, yes okay like you knowthe color would spread more,
okay or not.
Every skin type was a goodcandidate for the procedure, so
(15:24):
like it would not hold well orbecome a little bit blotchy,
uneven.
You know the depth.
You couldn't regulate so wellthe depth and with this
technique you know so some someskins would hold the color and
age beautiful and look beautifuleven over time.
But a lot of skins were notgood candidates for microblading
(15:45):
so later on we introduced ombreeyebrows.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And that's what you're doing now Bombre, bombre.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Yes, that's when Costas actually came into the
industry.
He was like specializing moreon this, like ombre eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So you were doing the eyebrows too at the time.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I'm doing everything.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
You're doing everything I'm doing eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
I'm doing eyeliner.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
He's multi-talented.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I'm doing everything.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yes, daria, specialized more for the like,
the fluffiest, or the newtechnique that she will explain
you and the amazing wingedeyeliner.
I'm doing only the lips.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
So what's the difference between the Bombre
and the so?
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Bombre Ombre eyebrows we use a machine and we do like
shading eyebrows, not like oldtattoo where it was like super
packed color.
It's very sheer and verynatural.
You can create like as naturalas you want.
They're semi-permanent colors,or we use permanent makeup
colors, but they're kind of ablend of the two colors, so it's
(16:52):
like organic and organic.
Yeah, like it's kind of amixture.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
They're not gonna disappear from your skin they're
still lasting, but fading alittle bit faster but they don't
fade into purple like they usedto in the old days, that's why?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
because they're balanced and that's why you need
to be very careful choosingpermanent makeup artist, because
it's like a relationship, youknow, like you are stuck with
your eyebrows for years if youchoose artists that will screw
(17:25):
your face, you're going to havea regret on your face for years.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
What would you tell someone to ask then?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
So, that's where the years of experience are very
important Real pictures.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Real pictures from the clients right after the
procedure, from the clients withhealed results, because a lot
of people they just stolepictures from the clients right
after the procedure, from theclients with healed results,
because a lot of people theyjust stole pictures from other
people you know they post andlike it's a lot very competitive
industry too.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
I'm telling you a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
When it became so popular, they went to YouTube.
They watch videos how we aredoing the procedure and they
just jump on the client and dothe procedure and then they
destroy the fish and then wehave these clients to come to us
to do removals and that kind ofstuff it
Speaker 4 (18:10):
was very aggressive, you know but yeah, years of
experience where it come handfulis because an artist can see
the result, how the color isaging over a period of like even
three, four years.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
How often would you say you have to do either one,
so in general, we recommend onceper year for the eyebrows to
refresh the color.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
But we work very natural.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yes for natural results to maintain it.
But what happened to me as anartist?
Like when I first started I Iwent for training to very
reputable place with very goodbrand pigments, expensive, you
know, and uh, over time, afterone year, after two years,
(18:58):
sometimes they would come allorange.
Oh so, like there was a phase,the micro.
Then I switched to anotherbrand and until you you
understand the color and how tomodify it and what corrector to
add to.
Like it's taking you for eachpigment line.
Every time you're switching apigment line you need like three
(19:20):
, four years to find the andfine-tune the color because,
like on this, on this skin colorit can age more cool, you know,
on the other skin color so youthat's.
That's where the experience isvery important.
Yeah, like a fresh artist.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Unfortunately, don't have this experience I would
never go to somebody who justgot out of whatever training or
whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, but a lot of people you know, like when you
go out from your training.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Of course you offer a very cheap price because you
want slowly, slowly, to haveexperience how you will have
clients you offer a cheap price,so a lot of people they go, you
know, after the prices.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Oh, I broke you.
These are so good.
They were super cheap, though,yeah yeah, saved a ton of money.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Um, so, yeah, so definitely don't skimp on if
like, and we'll talk more about.
I want to talk more about cost.
Uh, to cost us about the lips,but, like if somebody's charging
a tiny amount of money, I wouldbe suspicious a little bit, you
know definitely no, no one likegood artists in our industry
(20:30):
that respect his work, becauseit's years of experience and
these trainings are not cheapeither.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
You know like you invest in all the time.
Yeah, so nobody will willcharge, yeah, little, yeah so
okay.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So what happens?
Like, um, just talk us through,like say I'm getting my
eyebrows done, I come into youroffice, you do them, what can I?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
so I think, also what you need to pay attention is
the aesthetic of the personyou're going the artist, because
everyone has different stylesand that's how we attract
likewise clients, because wespecialize in more natural
results.
So the younger girls who wantlike a little bit more bolder
eyebrows, they most likely willchoose, like different artists,
(21:14):
you know, for a different style.
So that's something importantLike pay attention if the
results are natural, if it'ssomething that align with your
aesthetic right um, that'sreally super important.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yes, yeah.
So if I but um so like somebodycomes in, you do their brows,
what can they expect?
Um, like the first day, youknow, over the next few weeks?
Speaker 4 (21:36):
so it's always looking bolder, darker, more
reddish, you know, because thereis like a little bit of
swollenness, a little bit ofskin irritation you know, and
the color the first days issitting on the surface.
Okay, what's happening later?
The scabs are peeling off andthe color will be under the
(21:57):
epidermis.
So that's why we always say,like, don't look at yourself in
the mirror for like the nextcouple of weeks because it's not
the result.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, she has client that she finished the procedure
and the client start crying andshe won't refund and all that
stuff and that I say you knowwhat, take your refund, take
everything I don't want, justdon't look your eyebrows for 10
days.
And after 10 days we startreceiving flowers in the office
because she, she feels so bad.
You know she loved her eyebrowsand she started sending you
(22:29):
know like flowers and all thatstuff.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, we had like a lot of drama.
Yeah, after the procedure.
For some people it can be alittle bit overwhelming.
So we we're good to explainthat and we have an aftercare
instructions.
You know like what to expectthe first day.
So the process, like thehealing process, it's important
(22:51):
to understand because it's goingto be like bolder.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Something else I want to add here, because it's very,
very important, is this whenthe you give them the aftercare
and you explain them exactly thesteps that they will see day
one, day two, day, five, day, 10.
When they see every single dayexactly what you explained them,
they understand how experiencedyou are in your business.
So we explain 100% what theywill see first day, second day,
(23:18):
day five, day 10, when they willsee the final color and when we
can touch again the eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So this is very important for the client because
they understand how muchexperience you have yeah, and
you send everybody home withlike little packets of like you
know what to do and like all,the aftercare and everything is
super, super important, but yeah, like pretty much I would say
10 days it's.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
That's where it's going through, this process of
like peeling little bits,scabbing uh, darker, bolder,
redder, you know and then after10 days you can start like
wetting the eyebrow area forlips it's different after care,
so then the scars peel off andthen actually the color will
look too light right, that's theghosting period.
(23:57):
Yes, and then the color willlike kind of show better in the
full potential.
When would you expect it?
Yeah, day 15, day 20s that'sthe actual color that it's going
to land on.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, okay cool, that's amazing.
Yeah, I'm sure you've had somepeople just freak out.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Yeah, I had um, she's a good client of mine now.
Every time we see each other,uh, we're laughing.
But she was so hysteric she wascalling after a few days and,
like you, ruined my career.
I cannot go over this.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
That's the worst feeling too, because even though
you know that's not true, but Idon't know.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
As an esthetician.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Sometimes somebody sends me, anytime, anybody sends
me a picture of something aftera treatment.
I assume I'm going to be ondateline tomorrow.
Like you know, like I'm goingto jail.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Nikki has a lot of outstanding warrants.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
But you feel terrible Like I can't sleep if
somebody's not happy with whatI've done.
But, then it usually ends upbeing something like you're
saying, like it's something thatthey just didn't expect or
something that you had nocontrol over.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
No, now I'm really cool with this process.
I'm like okay, can we talkafter two weeks?
Like, yeah, it's it, I promiseyou it's, it's gonna be
different, you know.
So, like I, I it doesn't botherme inside, like, uh, it doesn't
put too much pressure, becausewhen I first started it was very
, you know, like a lot ofpressure.
And you have a lot ofresponsibilities.
Sperm and makeup, you know yeahabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You were stuck with it for years and you're not one
of those things where, like youknow, people get drunk and they
go for a tattoo and they go.
Oh, I got it on my butt.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
You know they can cover it up.
This is on your face.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
This is like you can't be like oh, I got wasted
and got my eyebrows done, it'slike no, you want to go in there
sober.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Make a gooddecision?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
No, for sure.
No, alcohol is our rule.
Yeah, this is a thin your bloodtoo, because it's thin your
blood.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
Speaker 1 (25:55):
So who's a good candidate for doing this and who
would be a bad candidate fordoing the ombre?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Who should we like?
Who should we hate?
Speaker 4 (26:03):
So in general, with fluffy strokes, I didn't jump
into fluffy strokes, right, no?
So we said that.
Then we introduced the ombreeyebrows.
Okay, yeah, and then the pastlike five, no more Three four
years yeah.
Like during pandemic, you know,like I was practicing already,
(26:24):
so like right after, so like ourson is already.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So this is a third incarnation of it.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Four years, it's the best technique we, I do fluffy
stroke.
I call it, it's my kind of likesignature name for this
technique.
It's a combination.
You do hair stroke like kind ofmicroblading, but with machine
with shading method.
So, this is the best of thebest.
Right Now, you can do more skintypes.
(26:48):
It's working well for oily skin.
It does work well for sensitiveskin.
That wasn't a good candidatefor microblading, so we have
more options.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You don't damage the skin, yeah, even if they have
previous tattoo.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I can still do like a little bit combination hair
stroke with with the shadingtogether, so like it's, it's, uh
, my favorite.
I'm very happy with like howit's aging and look at all our
time.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
So because it's two different types.
That's why I gave up onmicroblading complaint.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I know I haven't touched microblading to all the
past, like first of all, withmicroblading you cannot go to
the same client more than two,three times, even if they have
very good skin three times fourtimes maximum, because you open
the same stroke and every timethat you open the same stroke,
it's gonna look blurry and thenit looks like powder.
That's why the future is ombreeyebrows and fluffy strokes.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
It's not a microblading and it's more scar
tissue too.
Yeah, of course that makessense, you know like when you
create more scar tissue on theskin.
The color won't take the sameover time With fluffy stroke.
It's such a gentle technique.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I don't even heard of that.
So that's yeah, very delicate,very, very gentle.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Do you do that on very gentle to me, do you?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
do that on?
Do you give them option, firstLike I do ombre and then do
fluffy stroke, or you just, youjust go straight for, like the
combo we have we still have.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Even on our website.
We still have microbladingombre fluffy strokes as an
option, because some peoplehaven't heard about fluffy
strokes and they book formicroblading.
But they come explain as theyhave a trust you know they come
to you, to what I see it's daria.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Definitely try to push the client for fluffy
strokes, because the best resultis the most natural and the
most gentle technique for theirskin yeah, and the most
important thing for us is theskin of the client first not the
results right because I cannotdamage your skin and just give
you results.
Yeah, I need to give younatural results and respect your
skin.
This is the most important.
That's why she promote more thefluffy strokes.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Is that your name for it or is that like so, like if
somebody were looking-.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Different artists have their own, different names.
Like this technique is comingmore from Russia, like Baltic,
so some people call it hyperrealism eyebrows, or like
kashmir eyebrows or, um, I don'tknow, like yeah I don't know a
(29:13):
lot of names nano strokes likedifferent yeah, like different
names, but pretty much if you'retalking about hair stroke done
with machine and shading method,because also they were doing
strokes with machine but not inshading movement, in like
dragging movement, which wasdifferent.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yes, and that's I was training that years when I
first started micro blade.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Because micro blade was so new, you know, nobody was
doing it.
So I went to training for nanostrokes with machine.
But it wasn't shading, it was adifferent technique and it
didn't work so good.
Okay, so like that's completelydifferent.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
The powder powder strokes right like you create
the strokes with powder.
You just brush the skin andcreate the stroke.
You don't go into the skin andwork with your machine.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
We don't work into the skin.
You don't work into the skinfor your with your machine.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Oh wow, we don't work into the skin.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You don't work into the skin.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
No for your lips, For your lips for your eyeliner,
for your lips for eyebrows.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
It's like shading we don't work into the skin.
We don't like All thetechniques.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
It's just brushing the skin.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Well, I want to talk to you about that?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, because, yeah, that's pretty intense, a weird
painful way um so okay, so hasanybody ever come to you for
like, um, just, they have noeyebrows whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yes, it's happened a lot and that's where you really
can change someone's life.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah, you can boost their confidence you can really.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
You know like save their time and stress and
confidence.
Like confidence is veryimportant because we work with
alopecia client with cancer Savetheir time and stress and
confidence.
Like confidence is veryimportant Because we work with
alopecia clients with cancersurvivors and this cancer
survivor myself Right, I reallyappreciate having permanent
makeup while going through thisperiod of time.
Because you know like and foreyeliner, no lashes.
(31:04):
You know like you look reallybold.
I hadn't even thought aboutthat.
Yeah, no lashes.
You know like you look reallybold.
So like a little bit touch oflash enhancement that I had in
my liner and, uh, eyebrows.
You know like it was reallygreat to have you know going
through the cancer but, forpeople who have alopecia.
I had a young girl like um was aproblem like picking up on
(31:25):
eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
She was pulling them out.
Yeah, oh yeah trichotillomania,I know, yeah, it's like a hair
pulling.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Yes, yes, so, like in these cases, you can really do
a difference.
That just changes their lives,right.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
You look at yourself especially as a woman and you're
like I have a face now so youcan frame your face and male
alopecia clients.
You know like you change theirlife.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Do you ever do and we didn't even talk about this
before but do you ever do likeany?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
of that on the scalp.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
No, okay, no, I wonder if that's a thing that
people do or not.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I like procedures, you know, like that aging also,
and you can work with it overtime.
With the skull, pigmentation isvery tricky, okay, you know,
because how you will go over thesame, the same over time, it
will work okay, right so it justlooks like you put magic marker
on your head yeah, there aresome amazing results right after
(32:19):
that.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
We're working in light and the new techniques are
more light and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
But you don't know how they will age after three,
four years maybe there are somecouple of like artists in the
world, of course, that like beendoing it for years and they
found the right patterns, butlike it's not like somewhere I
would easily trust maybe is thatwhat happened to uh gorbachev.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I think that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
he was probably the first client and they said no no
, no.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And they said no, and then he proved them all wrong.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
And then they stopped it for 10, 20 years Exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, all right, so we're going to wrap you up in a
second.
But so, like, just what shouldsomebody do before they have any
of those treatments?
Like, what would you recommendthat they do or don't do before
you come in for a treatment forthe fluffing or the?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
So we recommend to avoid any alcohol for, I would
say, at least one day, becausefluffy stroke is gentle
technique.
So there is not much bleeding.
With micro bleeding there was alot of blood, yeah, so then you
know like it would affect.
Now, like, uh, even I, I tellit's okay to have your coffee
(33:35):
before I would say like nocoffee oh that's right, okay,
but obviously, you know, duringpregnancy you don't during
nursing, it's not recommendedthe procedure.
And if you have like, if you'reundergoing cancer treatments,
you know like you need toconsult your physician because
(33:55):
every cancer treatment isdifferent you know, so like
sometimes they can do it rightafter, sometimes they need a
couple of months you know soit's better to.
Sometimes they need a couple ofmonths, you know.
So it's better to.
And I mean, like anyinflammation, any irritation in
the area, obviously you cannotwork over open skin.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
you know, If you want to do your fillers or your
Botox better, first the Botoxand the fillers and then
permanent makeup.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
That's good to know.
So in general we recommend likefew weeks after Botox, so
everything can settle down.
Then you can do it, or fillersalso.
I would give fillers three,four weeks to settle.
Yeah, because you don't want totraumatize too much the area.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
All right, so we're going to wrap you up.
So where can we find you?
Where can people find you?
Usually, at last, people findyou.
Where can people, where canpeople find you?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
usually, at last, people.
Where can people find you onthe social media?
Just so we have something andthen we'll put at the bottom
golden brows our.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Instagram like that's our website platform and then
Daria perban makeup website orgolden brows too.
You know like it's kind ofconnected with academy.
They can choose Perban Makeupwebsite, or Golden Brows too.
You know like it's kind ofconnected with Academy.
They can choose studio orAcademy.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Perfect, all right, and I know that you do great
work and I have a few peoplethat actually I'm referring to
Diane, to her, I think.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Oh nice.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, so I gave her your number.
So anyway, All right cool.
You are listening to, watching, hearing, smelling,
tasting and feeling sex, drugsand skin care.
Like and subscribe.
Hey, welcome back to Sex, drugsand Skin Care.
I am Nikki Davis Jr, licensedcomedian, stand-up esthetician.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good, good, you're more confident in that.
Last week you didn't really youdidn't know your name.
No, yeah, I'm Nikki Davis.
That was weird.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah.
But this week you sound likeyou know it more, I knew it
better, I practiced, I had somepractice.
How long does it take?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
you to learn your name before the show?
I don't know, I forget aftereach show.
Well, okay, all right, I'm justsaying you know you could
probably prep the this later.
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Couples counseling, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I am a 25 years experienced esthetician plus a
stand-up comedian.
This podcast I'm just trying togive like an explanation up
front for people.
So this is the only skincareand comedy podcast that I'm
aware of, and so we like tointroduce different topics about
beauty and skin care.
Hit the subscribe button andthe like button.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And even if you don't like or want to watch it again,
you don't have to like anythingor watch it, just pretend.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Just pretend, and that's most like most of our
friends.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, it's most of my life, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know they say you fake it till you make it.
Yeah, I don't know when makingit is, you just keep faking it,
right.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
You just keep on faking it.
Oh, you know what it?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
is Fake it till you, make it to death, that's what it
is.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh, that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, I think that's the entire thing.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
By the way, you guys are allowed to laugh if you want
, but don't feel pressured tolaugh.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, they're just shooting.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
so many mean looks already oh my gosh, this is his
first time.
I think we've had a couple yeah, a couple yeah you're not too
sure things right now?
No, I'm not.
I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think it is the first time we've had a couple
aside from us right.
Yeah, that's right.
I keep forgetting we'retogether.
That's so weird.
You wish well?
No, I don't wish, I keepforgetting, I keep forgetting.
Uh, it's the first time we'vehad a couple yeah so it feels
pretty good, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It's like, finally we have somebody that you know
after the show I can be like sois she weird too?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
You know what I mean.
We can compare, because youknow Guess who you guys are.
You're both talking About me,though.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, what's Nikki like when you're, when you want
to?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
St.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You have the power that you do.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But I'm excited for today's show because, speaking
of that, yeah, oh, stabbing inthe face.
I was going to say you have,that was good actually, thank
you, but I don't want it to meanlike that.
No, you don't have to reiteratestabbing in the face.
We're not trying to say thathere.
No, no, no.
But you have experience withthese guests.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I have.
Okay, so I met them.
My hairdresser referred me to Ilove that book, by the way.
My hairdresser, my hairdresserreferred me.
Yeah, it's a book.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think it's a Dr Seuss book.
It's when the cat in the hatafterwards.
All right, that's enough.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I like to try jokes that don't work.
That's one of the best ones.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, they really don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Neither, neither do I .
I'm holding back a cough rightnow, so much.
You should drink some water, Iknow, but I have to finish
talking and then when the cameragoes to somebody else, then I
can do that I'm holding on to it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
That's so why she's old school.
You're doing old school theJohnny Carson days.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I'm also trying to like I'm having trying to have
keep my ponytail on one side,because I focused it towards the
other side.
I have a fake ponytail on, solet, so since I'm going to be
facing this way every once in awhile, I want my ponytail to be
on this side.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I get it.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You can't tell if you're listening and not
watching.
You can't tell which side myponytail is on.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Not at all, but I do think that it's very natural to
do this with your hair Just keepmoving it over.
Is that real?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
There's actually a pole in here, so I could just
bend it a little bit more.
Oh yeah, because you that'sright, it wraps around the hair.
Yeah, it's like a.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Christmas tree ornament or something.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, feel it now it's because it's so old, feel
it.
It feels like horse, likereally bad horse hair, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
It feels like it feels like you.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Just when you got home, you took it feels like it
just feels like the desert, yeah, desert hair, desert hair there
.
It was okay, um so okay.
So these guests that are goingto be here today, we're
splitting this episode into two.
They are also a couple, as Imentioned, um, one of the cup of
the one part of the couple,that's good yes yeah, yeah okay,
the first one I feel like Iwant to introduce, but okay,
(04:28):
well, they both work in the sameplace because A they're married
and B they both do similarthings but also different.
I met both of them by gettingmy lips blushed, which I
probably should have done oncamera.
That would have been really fun.
I think I was trying to hold it,but it was kind of not working
because you're, you know, likeum but and then you get kind of
(04:49):
sleepy, believe it or not okay,I can see that but um, so yeah,
so right now, um should I justnormally have you introduce
people, but since you don'treally know them, I don't know
them that well and I feel likeyou have like a connection with
them yeah and they've andthey've done things that I want
to do sometimes to you.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You know just what's up.
I can't, I don't, I don't wantto hit your face.
I'm not saying that, I'm justsaying they don't hit me.
No, I'm not.
I'm just saying, like you know,because I went like this with
my hand I wanted I'm not someone, I'm not what I mean.
No, I mean I'd love maybe, maybea slap, but that I wouldn't hit
you.
No, like a sexy slap.
Yes, a sexy slap.
But they've also seen you.
You know, when you're relaxedand you're also really, you know
(05:24):
, puffy and you, they get to putneedles into your face and I
wonder what that's like I'm justwondering, you know, just like
an acupressure thing.
You know you do as a coupleyeah, to relieve stress for the.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
For the other person, it's voodoo therapy.
Thank you, yeah, voodoo therapy.
There we go um.
Yeah, okay, well, so they bothwork in a place called uh, I was
gonna say, I almost blew itagain golden brows is the name,
is the full name of your entireum, and they're in beverly hills
, um, and I guess we're gonnatalk to, we're gonna talk to you
first, is that right?
We're so, um, usually we movepeople to the couch so coming to
(05:59):
their own couch, please welcome.
what do you call yourself, bythe way?
Permanent makeup artist.
Permanent makeup artist.
Yeah, yeah, okay, dariaAngelopolo.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Did I say that right?
Thanks for having us.
My pleasure, I think you saidit right enough.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, you're never going to say it, did you?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
think I was actually going to actually people talk
about stuff all the time, Didyou think I?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
would actually drag you guys down here.
I mean, it's a very nicesurprise, because we've never
been together on the show.
That's cool.
It's kind of a different anglefrom us.
I like it.
I'm happy to experience that.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
You guys should have your own reality show, actually.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
We're not so funny though.
No, I bet you are he is morefunny I I'm a little bit more.
You know like, uh, people askme.
You know, like, what is yourfunny side?
I'm like, I don't know.
Like I'm, I'm a little bitboring in this.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Well, you're good at what you do, and that's all that
matters.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
I'm sure she's I'm create.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You're yeah, you're a , you do, and that's all that
matters.
I'm sure she's.
I'm creative yeah, you're acreative, exactly, and that's
all that matters, withoutseeming like I'm trying to like,
push you, like as a product,but you are so freaking great at
what you do.
Thank you and tell me, okay,first of all, I know that you do
.
You do microblading, right.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
So we used to do microblading right, so we used
to do microblading, okay, oh, no, touch on that, yeah because we
actually brought microbladingin the united states and we're
the first academy to teach andwe taught like thousands of
students but I don't do anymicroblading now you don't okay
we're gonna touch on thedifferent procedures that are oh
(07:43):
, it's, oh, it's a differentthing now.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Okay, so wait.
Okay, so then you came from.
Tell me the story, give me alittle bit of a background.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Okay, so I'm originally from Belarus and at
age of 18, I moved to Greece,where she's pointing to her
husband I met.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, who is Greecece ?
Yes, I met costas in greece.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
we got married there and we moved together in in la
already like 11 years.
Okay, I've been here.
So I started a career inpermanent makeup back in greece
and you know like back then thefacebook groups were like a big
thing, you know, and people wereactually like supporting each
(08:26):
other and like being likebuilding a community.
So I started to post mymicroblading work, which was
also very new back in Europe,and people were like what's that
?
What do you mean hand done?
You know, because microbladingyou do it without machine, you
do it by hand.
So they were like wow, I likeyour.
(08:46):
So I created a little bitalready hype about my name
before we moved here.
And then when we moved here,there were people like lining up
by themselves Wow, I would liketo learn this.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So we like moved really fast and started to teach
people here to do microbladingwere you ever afraid that, like
if you taught too many people,it would cut into your business?
Or did you even care?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
that's actually what happened.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Probably really, yeah it was so, so big the business
back then.
You know, like with thestudents that you cannot think
this.
You just want you know, to jumpin the opportunity you know
yeah, it's crazy opportunityyeah, but a lot of my, our
students are teaching others,yeah of course it's the name of
the game you know yeah everybodywant to jump for the money,
(09:35):
it's true I almost trained forto do it.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I thought about it but I was like I don't know if
it's a, it's a commitment, likeI didn't know if I wanted to do
that all the time, because I'man esthetician too, yeah, um.
Yeah, but I can see why peoplewould just jump on, especially
around that time is when itreally was starting to get hot
here.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, when we're like at the right place you slid
right in there, yes, the bestcountry in the world, the best
state in the world.
You know, like the beauty ofthe beauty here.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, you think this is better than Greece?
Yeah, what?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
do you mean the opportunity here?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh, the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, okay, yeah.
First of all, it's the bestcountry in the world, the
country that I said always isthe country that you can dream.
The dreams are awake in thiscountry.
The state also helped usbecause of the beauty, so much
it was the peak of our life.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Oh, that's not so nice.
That's really nice, it soundsvery much like.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
My dad was very much the same way he always said all
the time, it's the best countryin the world because of that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
His dad was from Italy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So he was very much.
He came here, you know when hewas, I don't think it was like
20 something, so he was justalways raving.
You know, this is the bestcountry, no matter what.
It gave him the opportunity.
Yes, it is, I love my country.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Sure, I love my country.
It's not that I compare, youknow, like the two countries,
but here is the land ofopportunity.
It is the opportunity, thedream is always awake.
You never know when you willhit something, and you will.
You will be, you know, likemulti million, successful or
celebrity or this, whatever itcan happen only in this country
(11:10):
well, we're glad to have youwelcome.
Now we're American citizens,that's awesome congratulations
we actually won a green cardlottery.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
He won.
I applied, he won.
So if one of you wins, it doyou both get it.
We actually won a green cardlottery.
Whoa he won.
I applied, he won.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So if one of you wins it, do you both get it?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Yes, because we were married already.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And this was while you were living in Greece.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
And then, okay, you had come here and then, or you
were just like no.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Daria had one question and she said she came
to me and said you know what Iwant to live?
You know, like my dream, I wantto live something big.
And because I worked with oneGreek American guy for many
years me and my father for manyyears we are distributors in
Greece of this guy so I flewhere a couple of times and I saw
the big dream, I saw the biglife, I saw his life and I was
(12:01):
so jealous and I said to my wifeif you want to live your dream,
you want to live you know theamazing life.
We need to go to los angeles.
So we came with daddy a coupleof times for vacation and we go
back.
We went back in greece.
I say I'm in love with losangeles.
Now I want to move over there.
So we started watching thissecret oh yeah so we sit down
together and we make one bigdream that we are moving one day
(12:23):
in Los Angeles without havingany solution.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
We couldn't move.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
So one friend of hers , we fly in for vacation in her
country, belarus, and her bestfriend gave me the lucky $2 bill
and she said apply for thegreen card lottery and you will
win.
And I said what is green cardlottery?
She said it's a lottery likeyou win the lotto, apply and
(12:49):
maybe you have a chance.
So she applied because I haveno idea how to do this and the
second time I won the, the greencard that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
No, there is a thing like people living in the us.
They don't know that there issuch a thing so like there are
people and they give somepercentage for each country
because they want this diversity, you know.
So there is like a smallpercent of like two percent for
greek people or like fivepercent for russian like.
So, like for differentcountries, yeah, and they like
(13:20):
pick randomly.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
They say randomly selected Are you sure they
didn't see pictures of you guysand they're like, yeah, I got
these guys.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
No with pictures, just voice samples.
Yeah, just voice samples.
I like the way they sound.
Yeah, good voice.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, so then you came here, and then did you
immediately put together thePermanent Makeup University.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
That's what you called it right away.
So yeah, because I waspracticing it before in Greece
already, you know like, andpeople were asking we moved so
fast.
We moved here in July,beginning of July, and then in
August we already opened theacademy.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
It wasn't like an academy.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
The small academy.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
But yeah, it was like a training room and two extra
rooms and you started six months.
We opened a bigger academy, wemoved to the other place.
Bigger place was more, yeah, soit just was like perfect it was
meant to be.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It was meant to be, yeah it was meant to be okay, so
then.
So you were doing microblading,right?
So then tell me now what you'redoing.
Um, first of all, if you don'tknow what microblading is, can
you explain what that is?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Microblading became so popular, everybody learned
what is microblading.
It's a handheld tool and you dohair strokes like small
incisions.
You kind of cut in the skin soyou create small strokes and you
rub the pigment inside andthat's how it's staying in your
skin.
It's like a prison tattoo, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
But beautiful yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, I guess.
So Nikki used to be inmarketing.
Everything was like a prisontattoo.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
We're trying to sell pizza.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I don't understand.
It's like a prison tattoo.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, but there were a lot of like downfalls with
these techniques trying to sellpizza?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I don't understand.
Okay, you can present tattoo.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah, okay, but there there were a lot of like
downfalls with these techniquesbecause, over time, because of
the cut, yes okay like you knowthe color would spread more,
okay or not.
Every skin type was a goodcandidate for the procedure, so
(15:24):
like it would not hold well orbecome a little bit blotchy,
uneven.
You know the depth.
You couldn't regulate so wellthe depth and with this
technique you know so some someskins would hold the color and
age beautiful and look beautifuleven over time.
But a lot of skins were notgood candidates for microblading
(15:45):
so later on we introduced ombreeyebrows.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And that's what you're doing now Bombre, bombre.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Yes, that's when Costas actually came into the
industry.
He was like specializing moreon this, like ombre eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So you were doing the eyebrows too at the time.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I'm doing everything.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
You're doing everything I'm doing eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
I'm doing eyeliner.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
He's multi-talented.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I'm doing everything.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yes, daria, specialized more for the like,
the fluffiest, or the newtechnique that she will explain
you and the amazing wingedeyeliner.
I'm doing only the lips.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
So what's the difference between the Bombre
and the so?
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Bombre Ombre eyebrows we use a machine and we do like
shading eyebrows, not like oldtattoo where it was like super
packed color.
It's very sheer and verynatural.
You can create like as naturalas you want.
They're semi-permanent colors,or we use permanent makeup
colors, but they're kind of ablend of the two colors, so it's
(16:52):
like organic and organic.
Yeah, like it's kind of amixture.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
They're not gonna disappear from your skin they're
still lasting, but fading alittle bit faster but they don't
fade into purple like they usedto in the old days, that's why?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
because they're balanced and that's why you need
to be very careful choosingpermanent makeup artist, because
it's like a relationship, youknow, like you are stuck with
your eyebrows for years if youchoose artists that will screw
(17:25):
your face, you're going to havea regret on your face for years.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
What would you tell someone to ask then?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
So, that's where the years of experience are very
important Real pictures.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Real pictures from the clients right after the
procedure, from the clients withhealed results, because a lot
of people they just stolepictures from the clients right
after the procedure, from theclients with healed results,
because a lot of people theyjust stole pictures from other
people you know they post andlike it's a lot very competitive
industry too.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
I'm telling you a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
When it became so popular, they went to YouTube.
They watch videos how we aredoing the procedure and they
just jump on the client and dothe procedure and then they
destroy the fish and then wehave these clients to come to us
to do removals and that kind ofstuff it
Speaker 4 (18:10):
was very aggressive, you know but yeah, years of
experience where it come handfulis because an artist can see
the result, how the color isaging over a period of like even
three, four years.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
How often would you say you have to do either one,
so in general, we recommend onceper year for the eyebrows to
refresh the color.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
But we work very natural.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yes for natural results to maintain it.
But what happened to me as anartist?
Like when I first started I Iwent for training to very
reputable place with very goodbrand pigments, expensive, you
know, and uh, over time, afterone year, after two years,
(18:58):
sometimes they would come allorange.
Oh so, like there was a phase,the micro.
Then I switched to anotherbrand and until you you
understand the color and how tomodify it and what corrector to
add to.
Like it's taking you for eachpigment line.
Every time you're switching apigment line you need like three
(19:20):
, four years to find the andfine-tune the color because,
like on this, on this skin colorit can age more cool, you know,
on the other skin color so youthat's.
That's where the experience isvery important.
Yeah, like a fresh artist.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Unfortunately, don't have this experience I would
never go to somebody who justgot out of whatever training or
whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, but a lot of people you know, like when you
go out from your training.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Of course you offer a very cheap price because you
want slowly, slowly, to haveexperience how you will have
clients you offer a cheap price,so a lot of people they go, you
know, after the prices.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Oh, I broke you.
These are so good.
They were super cheap, though,yeah yeah, saved a ton of money.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Um, so, yeah, so definitely don't skimp on if
like, and we'll talk more about.
I want to talk more about cost.
Uh, to cost us about the lips,but, like if somebody's charging
a tiny amount of money, I wouldbe suspicious a little bit, you
know definitely no, no one likegood artists in our industry
(20:30):
that respect his work, becauseit's years of experience and
these trainings are not cheapeither.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
You know like you invest in all the time.
Yeah, so nobody will willcharge, yeah, little, yeah so
okay.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So what happens?
Like, um, just talk us through,like say I'm getting my
eyebrows done, I come into youroffice, you do them, what can I?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
so I think, also what you need to pay attention is
the aesthetic of the personyou're going the artist, because
everyone has different stylesand that's how we attract
likewise clients, because wespecialize in more natural
results.
So the younger girls who wantlike a little bit more bolder
eyebrows, they most likely willchoose, like different artists,
(21:14):
you know, for a different style.
So that's something importantLike pay attention if the
results are natural, if it'ssomething that align with your
aesthetic right um, that'sreally super important.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yes, yeah.
So if I but um so like somebodycomes in, you do their brows,
what can they expect?
Um, like the first day, youknow, over the next few weeks?
Speaker 4 (21:36):
so it's always looking bolder, darker, more
reddish, you know, because thereis like a little bit of
swollenness, a little bit ofskin irritation you know, and
the color the first days issitting on the surface.
Okay, what's happening later?
The scabs are peeling off andthe color will be under the
(21:57):
epidermis.
So that's why we always say,like, don't look at yourself in
the mirror for like the nextcouple of weeks because it's not
the result.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, she has client that she finished the procedure
and the client start crying andshe won't refund and all that
stuff and that I say you knowwhat, take your refund, take
everything I don't want, justdon't look your eyebrows for 10
days.
And after 10 days we startreceiving flowers in the office
because she, she feels so bad.
You know she loved her eyebrowsand she started sending you
(22:29):
know like flowers and all thatstuff.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, we had like a lot of drama.
Yeah, after the procedure.
For some people it can be alittle bit overwhelming.
So we we're good to explainthat and we have an aftercare
instructions.
You know like what to expectthe first day.
So the process, like thehealing process, it's important
(22:51):
to understand because it's goingto be like bolder.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Something else I want to add here, because it's very,
very important, is this whenthe you give them the aftercare
and you explain them exactly thesteps that they will see day
one, day two, day, five, day, 10.
When they see every single dayexactly what you explained them,
they understand how experiencedyou are in your business.
So we explain 100% what theywill see first day, second day,
(23:18):
day five, day 10, when they willsee the final color and when we
can touch again the eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So this is very important for the client because
they understand how muchexperience you have yeah, and
you send everybody home withlike little packets of like you
know what to do and like all,the aftercare and everything is
super, super important, but yeah, like pretty much I would say
10 days it's.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
That's where it's going through, this process of
like peeling little bits,scabbing uh, darker, bolder,
redder, you know and then after10 days you can start like
wetting the eyebrow area forlips it's different after care,
so then the scars peel off andthen actually the color will
look too light right, that's theghosting period.
(23:57):
Yes, and then the color willlike kind of show better in the
full potential.
When would you expect it?
Yeah, day 15, day 20s that'sthe actual color that it's going
to land on.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, okay cool, that's amazing.
Yeah, I'm sure you've had somepeople just freak out.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Yeah, I had um, she's a good client of mine now.
Every time we see each other,uh, we're laughing.
But she was so hysteric she wascalling after a few days and,
like you, ruined my career.
I cannot go over this.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
That's the worst feeling too, because even though
you know that's not true, but Idon't know.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
As an esthetician.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Sometimes somebody sends me, anytime, anybody sends
me a picture of something aftera treatment.
I assume I'm going to be ondateline tomorrow.
Like you know, like I'm goingto jail.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Nikki has a lot of outstanding warrants.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
But you feel terrible Like I can't sleep if
somebody's not happy with whatI've done.
But, then it usually ends upbeing something like you're
saying, like it's something thatthey just didn't expect or
something that you had nocontrol over.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
No, now I'm really cool with this process.
I'm like okay, can we talkafter two weeks?
Like, yeah, it's it, I promiseyou it's, it's gonna be
different, you know.
So, like I, I it doesn't botherme inside, like, uh, it doesn't
put too much pressure, becausewhen I first started it was very
, you know, like a lot ofpressure.
And you have a lot ofresponsibilities.
Sperm and makeup, you know yeahabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You were stuck with it for years and you're not one
of those things where, like youknow, people get drunk and they
go for a tattoo and they go.
Oh, I got it on my butt.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
You know they can cover it up.
This is on your face.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
This is like you can't be like oh, I got wasted
and got my eyebrows done, it'slike no, you want to go in there
sober.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Make a gooddecision?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
No, for sure.
No, alcohol is our rule.
Yeah, this is a thin your bloodtoo, because it's thin your
blood.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
Speaker 1 (25:55):
So who's a good candidate for doing this and who
would be a bad candidate fordoing the ombre?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Who should we like?
Who should we hate?
Speaker 4 (26:03):
So in general, with fluffy strokes, I didn't jump
into fluffy strokes, right, no?
So we said that.
Then we introduced the ombreeyebrows.
Okay, yeah, and then the pastlike five, no more Three four
years yeah.
Like during pandemic, you know,like I was practicing already,
(26:24):
so like right after, so like ourson is already.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So this is a third incarnation of it.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Four years, it's the best technique we, I do fluffy
stroke.
I call it, it's my kind of likesignature name for this
technique.
It's a combination.
You do hair stroke like kind ofmicroblading, but with machine
with shading method.
So, this is the best of thebest.
Right Now, you can do more skintypes.
(26:48):
It's working well for oily skin.
It does work well for sensitiveskin.
That wasn't a good candidatefor microblading, so we have
more options.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You don't damage the skin, yeah, even if they have
previous tattoo.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I can still do like a little bit combination hair
stroke with with the shadingtogether, so like it's, it's, uh
, my favorite.
I'm very happy with like howit's aging and look at all our
time.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
So because it's two different types.
That's why I gave up onmicroblading complaint.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I know I haven't touched microblading to all the
past, like first of all, withmicroblading you cannot go to
the same client more than two,three times, even if they have
very good skin three times fourtimes maximum, because you open
the same stroke and every timethat you open the same stroke,
it's gonna look blurry and thenit looks like powder.
That's why the future is ombreeyebrows and fluffy strokes.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
It's not a microblading and it's more scar
tissue too.
Yeah, of course that makessense, you know like when you
create more scar tissue on theskin.
The color won't take the sameover time With fluffy stroke.
It's such a gentle technique.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I don't even heard of that.
So that's yeah, very delicate,very, very gentle.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Do you do that on very gentle to me, do you?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
do that on?
Do you give them option, firstLike I do ombre and then do
fluffy stroke, or you just, youjust go straight for, like the
combo we have we still have.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Even on our website.
We still have microbladingombre fluffy strokes as an
option, because some peoplehaven't heard about fluffy
strokes and they book formicroblading.
But they come explain as theyhave a trust you know they come
to you, to what I see it's daria.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Definitely try to push the client for fluffy
strokes, because the best resultis the most natural and the
most gentle technique for theirskin yeah, and the most
important thing for us is theskin of the client first not the
results right because I cannotdamage your skin and just give
you results.
Yeah, I need to give younatural results and respect your
skin.
This is the most important.
That's why she promote more thefluffy strokes.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Is that your name for it or is that like so, like if
somebody were looking-.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Different artists have their own, different names.
Like this technique is comingmore from Russia, like Baltic,
so some people call it hyperrealism eyebrows, or like
kashmir eyebrows or, um, I don'tknow, like yeah I don't know a
(29:13):
lot of names nano strokes likedifferent yeah, like different
names, but pretty much if you'retalking about hair stroke done
with machine and shading method,because also they were doing
strokes with machine but not inshading movement, in like
dragging movement, which wasdifferent.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yes, and that's I was training that years when I
first started micro blade.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Because micro blade was so new, you know, nobody was
doing it.
So I went to training for nanostrokes with machine.
But it wasn't shading, it was adifferent technique and it
didn't work so good.
Okay, so like that's completelydifferent.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
The powder powder strokes right like you create
the strokes with powder.
You just brush the skin andcreate the stroke.
You don't go into the skin andwork with your machine.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
We don't work into the skin.
You don't work into the skinfor your with your machine.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Oh wow, we don't work into the skin.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You don't work into the skin.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
No for your lips, For your lips for your eyeliner,
for your lips for eyebrows.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
It's like shading we don't work into the skin.
We don't like All thetechniques.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
It's just brushing the skin.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Well, I want to talk to you about that?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, because, yeah, that's pretty intense, a weird
painful way um so okay, so hasanybody ever come to you for
like, um, just, they have noeyebrows whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yes, it's happened a lot and that's where you really
can change someone's life.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah, you can boost their confidence you can really.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
You know like save their time and stress and
confidence.
Like confidence is veryimportant because we work with
alopecia client with cancer Savetheir time and stress and
confidence.
Like confidence is veryimportant Because we work with
alopecia clients with cancersurvivors and this cancer
survivor myself Right, I reallyappreciate having permanent
makeup while going through thisperiod of time.
Because you know like and foreyeliner, no lashes.
(31:04):
You know like you look reallybold.
I hadn't even thought aboutthat.
Yeah, no lashes.
You know like you look reallybold.
So like a little bit touch oflash enhancement that I had in
my liner and, uh, eyebrows.
You know like it was reallygreat to have you know going
through the cancer but, forpeople who have alopecia.
I had a young girl like um was aproblem like picking up on
(31:25):
eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
She was pulling them out.
Yeah, oh yeah trichotillomania,I know, yeah, it's like a hair
pulling.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Yes, yes, so, like in these cases, you can really do
a difference.
That just changes their lives,right.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
You look at yourself especially as a woman and you're
like I have a face now so youcan frame your face and male
alopecia clients.
You know like you change theirlife.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Do you ever do and we didn't even talk about this
before but do you ever do likeany?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
of that on the scalp.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
No, okay, no, I wonder if that's a thing that
people do or not.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I like procedures, you know, like that aging also,
and you can work with it overtime.
With the skull, pigmentation isvery tricky, okay, you know,
because how you will go over thesame, the same over time, it
will work okay, right so it justlooks like you put magic marker
on your head yeah, there aresome amazing results right after
(32:19):
that.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
We're working in light and the new techniques are
more light and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
But you don't know how they will age after three,
four years maybe there are somecouple of like artists in the
world, of course, that like beendoing it for years and they
found the right patterns, butlike it's not like somewhere I
would easily trust maybe is thatwhat happened to uh gorbachev.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I think that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
he was probably the first client and they said no no
, no.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And they said no, and then he proved them all wrong.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
And then they stopped it for 10, 20 years Exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, all right, so we're going to wrap you up in a
second.
But so, like, just what shouldsomebody do before they have any
of those treatments?
Like, what would you recommendthat they do or don't do before
you come in for a treatment forthe fluffing or the?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
So we recommend to avoid any alcohol for, I would
say, at least one day, becausefluffy stroke is gentle
technique.
So there is not much bleeding.
With micro bleeding there was alot of blood, yeah, so then you
know like it would affect.
Now, like, uh, even I, I tellit's okay to have your coffee
(33:35):
before I would say like nocoffee oh that's right, okay,
but obviously, you know, duringpregnancy you don't during
nursing, it's not recommendedthe procedure.
And if you have like, if you'reundergoing cancer treatments,
you know like you need toconsult your physician because
(33:55):
every cancer treatment isdifferent you know, so like
sometimes they can do it rightafter, sometimes they need a
couple of months you know soit's better to.
Sometimes they need a couple ofmonths, you know.
So it's better to.
And I mean, like anyinflammation, any irritation in
the area, obviously you cannotwork over open skin.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
you know, If you want to do your fillers or your
Botox better, first the Botoxand the fillers and then
permanent makeup.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
That's good to know.
So in general we recommend likefew weeks after Botox, so
everything can settle down.
Then you can do it, or fillersalso.
I would give fillers three,four weeks to settle.
Yeah, because you don't want totraumatize too much the area.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
All right, so we're going to wrap you up.
So where can we find you?
Where can people find you?
Usually, at last, people findyou.
Where can people, where canpeople find you?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
usually, at last, people.
Where can people find you onthe social media?
Just so we have something andthen we'll put at the bottom
golden brows our.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Instagram like that's our website platform and then
Daria perban makeup website orgolden brows too.
You know like it's kind ofconnected with academy.
They can choose Perban Makeupwebsite, or Golden Brows too.
You know like it's kind ofconnected with Academy.
They can choose studio orAcademy.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Perfect, all right, and I know that you do great
work and I have a few peoplethat actually I'm referring to
Diane, to her, I think.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Oh nice.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, so I gave her your number.
So anyway, All right cool.
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