June 16, 2021 • 51 mins
Dr. Allecia Reid is an Assistant Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Allecia’s research aims to both understand the psychological, social, and environmental factors that relate to health behaviors and to improve the design of health promotion interventions. Allecia talks with Valerie and Carly about drinking on college campuses, including the roles of peer influence and mimicry on alcohol use as well as protective strategies to reduce harmful alcohol use. Allecia also shares about her Fulbright experience working in the UK.
Read more about Allecia’s work here: https://blogs.umass.edu/spahlab
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Episode Transcript
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Valerie Earnshaw (00:09):
Okay.
I'm Valerie Earnshaw.
Carly Hill (00:13):
I'm Carly hill.
Valerie Earnshaw (00:14):
and this is sex drugs and science.
Carly Hill (00:17):
Today's conversation is with Dr.
Allecia Reid.
Allecia is an assistantprofessor of social psychology
at the University ofMassachusetts.
The research aims to understandthe psychological, social, and
environmental factors thatrelate to health behaviors and
to improve the design of healthpromotion interventions.
We talked with Allecia about herresearch on peer influence and
(00:38):
alcohol use.
And I really enjoyed thisconversation.
We talked about the role ofmimicry specifically in alcohol
use.
So essentially like copyingsomeone's behaviors and this
conversation has stuck with me.
So now I'm just like seeingmimicry everywhere.
I don't know about you, but i'man eating walking hand duster,
(00:58):
I'm like a full-time mimicrymonitor over here, seeing it
everywhere, everywhere.
So I hope that you all enjoythis conversation even half as
much as I did.
Valerie Earnshaw (01:14):
Dr.
Allecia Reed.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
Dr. Allecia Reid (01:18):
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be here with you.
Valerie Earnshaw (01:21):
Yeah, it's great to see you.
So I thought that we would startby sort of walking through your
background and training sopeople can get to know you a
little bit.
So you did your bachelor's inpsychology at the university of
Connecticut.
And I think actually, while youwere there, you were, I think
you're a research assistant umworking on like meta-analyses
(01:41):
with Dr.
Johnson.
Was that right?
Dr. Allecia Reid (01:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's correct.
So I, um, finished my bachelor'sdegree at UConn and I'm sure
like, lots of people kind of didthe, like, what am I doing with
my life?
And what's, what am I doing postgraduation?
And, uh, thankfully1 Dr.
Blair Johnson was looking for afull-time research assistant and
somehow my CV landed in hishands and was able to get a
(02:05):
full-time position with him forthat year.
Yeah.
And so I, you know, I think whenyou do those positions, you kind
of get filtered into theacademic lifestyle and you're
sort of like, okay, this feels,this feels okay.
Right.
And ended up applying for gradschool in that year and getting
in, in that year.
So it was a short time as aresearch assistant at Uconn,
but, but a good one for sure.
Valerie Earnshaw (02:26):
Well, it had a big impact because I got to
UConn a few years later for gradschool.
And I actually had theimpression at the time that you
had been a PhD student in ourprogram because people spoke so
highly of you, so highly of youand, you know, your work and
(02:47):
your skill set that I really, Ihad this impression that you,
you know, had a PhD like maybefive years before you actually
did.
Dr. Allecia Reid (02:56):
That's hilarious.
I appreciate of the love fromthe, especially the CHIP folks,
Center for Health andIntervention Prevention at
UConn.
I don't know what I could'vedone.
I did a really good jobcoordinating the lecture series
and ordering food.
I don't know.
I guess that was the thing thatI did really well.
So.
Valerie Earnshaw (03:13):
I think they just knew.
They could see, you know, you'rea budding star and they, they
were, yeah.
I don't know.
I, I had the impression thatthey were, they were really
proud of you and they thoughtvery highly of you, which was
very cool.
All right.
So you took this gap year andthen you, uh, you land at
Arizona State University and youdo your Masters and your PhD
there in psych, right?
(03:34):
Is that correct?
Dr. Allecia Reid (03:35):
Yeah.
Valerie Earnshaw (03:36):
And my impression is that while you
were there, you had like aparticularly strong training in
stats and methods, was thatcorrect?
Or is my impression Right?
Dr. Allecia Reid (03:46):
Yeah, no, that is correct.
So my graduate advisor was Leona A iken.
U m, she's since retired, butshe's w ell k nown in the field
of quantitative psychology.
Lots of people w ill use her bigregression book, Cohen, Cohen,
West, and Aikin.
Right.
Uh, i f you take Regression as agrad student.
Um, y eah.
And so we actually had aquantitative program, but I was
(04:07):
in the social program of course,u m, a t A rizona state, but she
was the founding chair of thequantitative program.
And also of course taught in itas well as her husband, Steve
west.
Um, a nd so she just said, Idon't care how many classes you
need, You're taking every statsclass we offer.
So that just meant by virtue, Itook everything we offered.
(04:28):
Interestingly, except MissingData.
And now I'm kicking myself fornot taking Missing Data.
Like, I got to a point of liketoo much stats right.
And wanting a break from it.
But, u m, ye ah, it was, it wasgreat.
And I thank her profusely forpushing us all in that direction
of"learn the sta ts", b ecausethis will be handy in your back
pocket for the rest of yourcareer.
(04:49):
And it actually has been.
Valerie Earnshaw (04:51):
Yeah.
I mean, you're a phenomenal,like methodologist and
statistician on top of all ofyour content expertise.
Dr. Allecia Reid (04:58):
That's so kind of you to say!
Valerie Earnshaw (04:58):
Well, it's just, it's just really clear in
reading your work.
So, so that's really neat.
Cause we actually, in our gradprogram at the beginning of
every year, they go around andlike the faculty are supposed to
give like one piece of advice tothe incoming graduate students,
and it sort of ranges from,like, don't forget to get enough
(05:19):
sleep to, like, all sorts ofthings.
And one person every year islike take all of the classes
that you can, all of the likequantitative or statistics
classes.
And I think that there really issomething to, like, if you build
these methodological skills oryou accumulate this like toolkit
of stats, analyses that you cando, then you can study lots of
(05:42):
things.
Dr. Allecia Reid (05:43):
That's true.
And I think the other piece ofdoing it while you're in grad
school is that, of course youcan take these workshops after,
right.
But they're three day, five daykind of crash course workshops,
as opposed to taking a fullsemester kind of getting the lay
of the land and really kind of,you know, getting your feet wet
with it, I feel like is a muchbetter way to learn, especially
for me statistical methods thenlike, you know, these five day
(06:06):
courses where you're like, am Iever going to use this?
If I've taken anything away fromthis.
Valerie Earnshaw (06:13):
Yeah.
I'm like really guilty of thethree-day Stats Course.
Then I'm like, what's themulti-level?
What's the second level?
What's...
What Is hierarchical again?
Yeah.
So, I mean, I totally agree withthat.
I mean, I know I took astructural equation modeling
like a certain type of statsclass in grad school and I know
that like really well in andout.
(06:34):
And then the three and five dayclasses are a little bit of a
different story, but yeah.
Dr. Allecia Reid (06:39):
Yeah.
And then the other thingactually I will say that I was
lucky to be able to do was ITA'd two classes, growth
modeling and multi-levelmodeling.
Right.
And it's like, you learn thingsbest when you now have to teach
them to other people.
So, and it was like the secondtime seeing the course taught.
So it was like this refresherplus like, oh, I really have to
know this.
So if people ask questions, um,I'm ready to answer them.
(07:02):
And so I think those were greatexperiences that kind of helped
me to use those techniques andthen now build on them, right.
With the new things coming downthe pipe.
Valerie Earnshaw (07:12):
Yeah, that's certainly true from my seat that
you like, it becomes very clearvery quickly what you don't know
and you're trying to teach it tosomebody else, especially a
graduate student.
You've really got to have itfigured out.
So that's definitely a goodobservation.
Yeah.
All right.
So then you pack up all yourstats skills from Arizona and
(07:32):
you come back to the east coast,you start a postdoc at the
center for interdisciplinaryresearch on AIDS at Yale
university, which is where wemet.
I got to see like all of thesestats skills up close in person.
Dr. Allecia Reid (07:45):
Yeah.
Valerie Earnshaw (07:47):
Yeah.
I remember Carly.
Like I got there.
I was, like, very green andAllecia is like, okay, here's
how I manage-- She was managingthis like, you know, ongoing
data collection for this bigrandomized controlled trial.
So big intervention study in thefield of pregnancy.
And she was like, showing me,you know, how she was pulling
together the data.
And I was just like, I'm so inover my head, because she also,
(08:13):
at the time was you know, shewas transitioning over to brown
for post-doc that was it morefocused on alcohol use, which
is, you know, her area.
But I was like, please neverleave.
Please stay here forever.
Carly Hill (08:25):
How am I going to do this alone?
Valerie Earnshaw (08:27):
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Allecia Reid (08:29):
Yeah.
That data set was just generallygenerally difficult.
What is like every download.
It was like, there was, therewas always going to be something
that was wrong with thedownloaded.
It was a fun one for sure.
Valerie Earnshaw (08:42):
Yeah, it was, that was definitely a good
practice.
But, um, but yeah, so, but thenyou land at Brown and you start
focusing on alcohol use at Brownand it seems like that was a
great experience because, youknow, some point along the way
you had really started todevelop this interest in peer
influence and alcohol use.
Right.
So did you, did you settle intothat interest at Brown or did
(09:04):
you develop that earlier andthen seek out Brown because of
their focus on alcohol?
Dr. Allecia Reid (09:10):
Yeah, I would say that I sought Brown out
because of the alcohol focus.
So, I went to Arizona State inpart because of my advisor being
a health psychologist,quantitatively minded.
Um, but also Bob Cialdini wasthere, um, who is sort of one of
the big names in the field ofNorms, uh, research and, and
sort of, you know, that history.
(09:30):
And so I always knew I kind ofwanted to do something in that
realm.
Uh, and so my dissertation was asunscreen intervention that used
normative information toencourage women to use sunscreen
and wear hats and all thatstuff.
But I was never going to dosunscreen work, like as a life
thing, I'm going to make a lotof sense in Arizona.
(09:51):
It only rains 30 days a year inArizona.
So it's like every day is anopportunity for protection, but,
and we should be doing it in theNortheast as well.
Actually we have really highrates of melanoma.
So, so use your sunscreen.
Carly Hill (10:02):
using this as a plug for a PSA for sunscreen.
Dr. Allecia Reid (10:06):
Yeah.
So then I, then I got to Yaleand was sort of, you know,
staying in the HIV condom use,um, sort of sexual risk-taking
realm there and just realized itwas really not the right area to
think about.
Norms research that, you know,in the context of sexual
relationships, that's reallykind of partner dynamics, right.
And less so, Like, these broadviews of how others view this
(10:28):
behavior.
Um, and so I really kind of madea, like, did a lot of thinking
about what makes sense if thisis what I want to do, what's the
right behavior for this.
And, you know, it just seemslike college students and
alcohol, uh, where else can youvery obviously see peer
influence happening, um, on aweekly basis.
Right.
Um, and so, sought out, uh,Brown for that reason and, you
(10:51):
know, sort of academic world issmall, right.
Um, and interconnections leadyou to different places.
So my advisor there, Kate Carriehad been faculty at Syracuse
University with Blair Johnsonwhen he'd been, uh, at Syracuse
before coming to UConn.
And so I'd been in a meetingwith her husband at some point
(11:11):
who heard me talking about normsand said, are you looking for a
postdoc?
And I was like, no, I'm notright now, I'm at Yale.
And so when I was looking toleave Yale, I just reached out
to her and said, I think we'd bea really good fit together, any
chance that you take a postdoc.
And so, uh, we met and it workedout and it was a great
experience.
It, uh, you know, I'm stilldoing alcohol work and, uh, some
strong in that direction.
(11:33):
So it was definitely the rightmove.
Valerie Earnshaw (11:35):
That's such an interesting behind the scenes,
like, look at how this happenssometimes.
I sometimes give this littleprofessional development talk
where I essentially map out allof the places I've worked and
how my like mentors and bossesare connected to each other.
And people are really, you know,people are really surprised to
see like, it's, by the time it'sall up there, it's like, it's a
(11:58):
super densely connected web, youknow?
And, and I think that that'slike a, that's also a great
takeaway of how these,especially post-docs sometimes
happen of, they're not alwayslike something is posted.
Sometimes it's reaching out andsaying, you know, like I think
this would be a great fit, whatcan we think about doing?
Dr. Allecia Reid (12:17):
Yeah.
And, you know, and I'll say herfirst reaction was"no".
Valerie Earnshaw (12:23):
Oh okay, How did you turn that around?
Dr. Allecia Reid (12:23):
She said,"No, I'm not looking for a p ostdoc".
Right.
U m, and so I said, oh, youknow, I would be willing to
apply for funding.
You know, is there any, wouldyou be open to that?
U h, and then we worked out away to apply for the funding for
it.
U m, so yeah, it is.
And I think i t's certainlyhelped right?
That I was connected.
And I think I have a paper withher husband because he's worked
(12:44):
a lot with Blair Johnson on HIVwork.
So I think, yeah, those, thoseconnections, you cannot
underestimate where they willtake you, u h, throughout your,
throughout your career.
Valerie Earnshaw (12:55):
Well, I love the story of it more now that
she said, it started with a no.
And then you were like,"let me--what if I pay for myself?"
Carly Hill (13:00):
Yeah! Cause well, cause that's what I was going to
say.
Like, yeah.
I mean, what's the worst theycan do, say no?
And it's like, well, yeah, no,actually,
Dr. Allecia Reid (13:09):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so, you know, to be fair,right.
She'd found a postdoc.
Right.
And so she really wasn't lookingfor another one, but she was at
least open to kind of hearing meout.
And I think she might have beena reviewer on my dissertation
paper.
Um, so I couldn't, yeah.
I feel like there was lots ofinterconnections.
Like she, you know, there werelots of reasons she was open to
(13:29):
it that were not just"thisrandom person has shown up in my
inbox asking to be a post- doc"
Valerie Earnshaw (13:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny how these thingshappen and yeah.
How people like learn about yourwork through all sorts of, you
know, funny ways that...
Well, Carly and I are superexcited to talk to you about
your work on alcohol use andstudents in part, because the
university of Delaware has beena number one party school over
(13:55):
the years.
You may not know this about us,
Dr. Allecia Reid (13:57):
I did not know this.
Valerie Earnshaw (13:57):
but, and one of the really interesting parts
about the University of Delawarethat I think is like, is really
relevant to a conversation onpeer influence is that we have,
you know, the university andthen we have a downtown and
there's a few streets thatintersect-- don't worry, this
geography lesson has a point.
(14:20):
These roads that are in downtownare most, there are a lot of
like student rentals and a lotof the houses have these like
big porches.
And so in the spring timestarting, I don't know, even
like starting in like when it'sway too cold for this to be hot.
So like March, February, you golike starting Thursday, Friday,
Saturday, Sunday, people, those,these like porches are like
(14:43):
overrun with students who aredrinking.
And it's just, it's a veryvisible, like, you can, you can
see it, they're playing drinkinggames.
People are like walking aroundwith coolers.
So our drinking culture, I feellike is very visible.
Is that how you...
that's how I experienced it as afaculty member.
Is that how you experienced it,Carly, as a student?
(15:04):
Or..
I had to drive past it everydayon the way home essentially.
Carly Hill (15:08):
Yeah.
And it's not, you know, I'msomeone that, um, grew up on
campus too at the University ofDelaware.
And so just seeing that's howit's always been.
To me, growing up, just like, Ijust thought that was like
college in general until I gotout and was like, oh no, not all
colleges are like this.
And I think a lot of it isbecause, and I think that this
has changed also, but when I wasgrowing up, it was really huge
(15:29):
and very much like Greek lifecentered, which I think had a
lot to do with it too.
Like even I know um like the bigthing every year-- And I think
this still is true-- They giveeach other coolers that they've
decorated.
Just like, that's the big giftthat you get in the fraternity
or sorority that you're in.
Like, so it's just like thedrinking is so ingrained in that
(15:49):
culture in general, but I justalways thought like, oh, that's
college.
Cause that's what I grew uplooking at, you know?
And then coming to figure outthat, like maybe we take it a
little bit harder than, othercolleges do over here.
Valerie Earnshaw (16:01):
Yeah.
So Allecia, I was really curiousabout, you know, it sounds like
you've had, you had the intereston peer influence or, you know,
and, and health behaviors for awhile.
So how did, and was it just thatthis was like a good context to
study that, to study thesedynamics?
Or was there something elseabout alcohol use that was
interesting for you andsomething that you wanted to
(16:22):
study more?
Dr. Allecia Reid (16:23):
Yeah.
I mean, I think, you know, beingan undergrad at UConn, if you
haven't, you haven't been toUConn, it does not sound as
exciting as Delaware.
It's like pretty remote.
Uh, yeah.
Not, there's not a nice downtownwith these intersecting streets
where there's like, partieshappening, that's, that's not
UConn at all, but UConn has alsobeen kind of top of the party
(16:45):
school list, um, at points.
Uh, and then, you know, Arizonastate always has that
reputation.
Right.
Which is, just too bad forArizona state.
But yeah.
So I would say having seen it,it just felt like that was a
place where I could clearly seehow peer influence would, would
make a big difference in thosetypes of contacts and even just
(17:07):
our perceptions of what othersare doing would really matter a
lot for the alcohol-use domain.
So yes, I would say it's, youknow, sort of having, having
watched and witnessed it, um,sort of unfolding in various
spaces around me that made meinterested in studying that,
that particular behavior.
Valerie Earnshaw (17:25):
And I think, you know, something, I didn't
realize when I was anundergraduate, because I also,
you know, to backdate I startedat Penn state, which is another,
so now that we're saying this,I'm like, I feel like every
school, you know, at Penn state,then I went to UConn, now I'm at
university of Delaware.
And I feel like all of thoseplaces have been like top
(17:46):
drinking schools you know?
Like is it following me or...
Dr. Allecia Reid (17:50):
What you were describing.
I was like, thinking,"thatsounds like Penn State"
Valerie Earnshaw (17:55):
It looks alot, actually like Penn State,
because Penn State is also supervisible.
Like there's, there's less ofthis porch thing, but you know,
you can, you just see theundergrads, like walking around
in the evenings and they'relike, hoards of...
It's just very invisible.
Carly Hill (18:10):
Well in UD it used to be way more visible when we
were more like Penn state withthe tailgating.
But we banned that now for themost part.
Or made it more difficult.
It's not, not like it used tobe, but that was like another
huge thing.
And then you'd see-- if youthink like drinking downtown is
bad now-- Like people in throwsjust going to the stadium and
stuff.
Like it was a totally differentworld.
(18:32):
So I guess, I don't know ifthat's one of the things that
they did to crack down on it.
It was like the no tailgating orwhat the deal with that is.
But...
Dr. Allecia Reid (18:39):
Yeah, and I mean, I was going to say one
thing that is interestingthough, is that when you look
nationally, right, and I guesssort of, you know, these kind of
hot-spots aside, um, the placeswhere you actually get the most
drinking are the small liberalarts colleges.
Valerie Earnshaw (18:54):
I never would have guessed that.
Dr. Allecia Reid (18:55):
Yeah, it's totally opposite of what you
would think.
Right.
And, really it's right.
So we go to like the Tailgating,all of those, you know, frats,
the very visible things that wecan think of at large
universities.
Um, but large universities, wehave commuters, we have kids who
live off campus and have, areworking their way with jobs and
various things whereastypically, you know, the liberal
(19:17):
arts are kind of residentialenvironments.
Like they're really not leavingthat campus community much to
drive and, and sort of go placesto meet people.
And so you do tend to see moredrinkers, right?
So you get fewer abstainers onthose smaller, uh, campuses.
And they tend to be a little bitheavier drinking.
Valerie Earnshaw (19:34):
I had no idea, but intuitively makes a lot of
sense.
I mean, you're, this is hangingout in your dorms and everyone's
got their bottles of vodka orwhatever it is.
Their 99 bananas.
There's also a residentassistant.
So it's my job to like goconfiscate alcohol from the 18
year olds.
And it was always 99 bananas orlike something blue,
Carly Hill (19:59):
like the cheap plastic bottle of Burnett's.
Valerie Earnshaw (20:02):
Yeah.
One time, uh, one of my parents,my dad came to visit like on a
Sunday morning and I had been onduty the night before.
And my, I had, I just hadn'ttaken the stuff over, like to
the commons to drop it off yet.
So I had like the hot bluebottle, the pink bottle all
lined up anyway,
Carly Hill (20:23):
but I am happy that you brought up the idea of heavy
drinking.
Allecia, can you define for thelisteners, like what is heavy
drinking when you're going on,you're doing this research for
college campuses?
Like, what is, how is thatdefined?
Dr. Allecia Reid (20:35):
Yeah.
Well, I'm going to give you the,the American definition.
And certainly people in Europehave said, like,"that's not
heavy drinking!".
I mean, we, so our officialdefinition-- and it's gender
specific-- is, um, for men, fiveor more drinks in a two hour
period.
Um, and for women, it's four ormore drinks, in that two hour
(20:57):
period.
Since women metabolize alcohol,a little more slowly than men do
in practice.
In terms of like actualresearch, I typically have never
actually been, you know,measured that period.
Right.
So it's usually just in onenight, um, it's good enough to
kind of capture that heavydrinking designation, but still
men having five or more drinksin a night and women doing four
in a night.
(21:18):
And I said the European thing,because sometimes they just sort
of like, it doesn't sound thatbad to me.
Valerie Earnshaw (21:24):
You did a Fulbright.
Maybe I know, hopefully we'llget to this later, but you did a
Fulbright.
So was that when you were, youwere doing your Fulbright in the
UK, was that also the heavydrinking or was there like a
different marker for what haveyou drinking would be there?
Dr. Allecia Reid (21:37):
Oh goodness.
They do have a different marker.
They also measure alcoholdifferently than we do since
most things come in pints.
And then they differentiatebetween like regular versus
strong lagers.
So I can't even give you thesort of definition means
Valerie Earnshaw (21:53):
A substantial barrier to international
research.
Dr. Allecia Reid (21:57):
It is actually, there's some things
we've been working on with ameta analysis that spans
multiple countries where we'dlike to bring in, like"what's
the per capita alcoholconsumption?".
Right.
And then we're like, wait, but Idon't even, how do we get to
that number when we're talkingabout 12 ounces in the US versus
a pint in the UK and they'redifferentiating how much alcohol
(22:18):
is in it and it's kind of anightmare, but whatever we're
going to get there eventually.
Valerie Earnshaw (22:23):
So interesting.
I've never even like, never eventhought about that.
So, okay.
And like, to me now, as somebodywho is not a college student and
hasn't been for a long time...
Four drinks in two hours I wouldbe unconscious.
Like I would be down, like, itdoes actually, as you get older,
I think it sounds especiallylike that's a,"I'm going to be
(22:46):
in trouble the next day" withfour drinks in two hours.
So it does sound like a healthyamount of drinks in a night to
me.
Dr. Allecia Reid (22:51):
Yeah, For sure.
For sure.
And, and, you know, I think wehave to remember students are
often building up theirtolerance for better and worse
over time, right?
So presumably for you or I, atthis point, four drinks even
spread out over a whole daywould be like this tomorrow.
Not going to be a pleasant dayfor me, you know, but if you've
been drinking in that way, thenyou don't respond quite as
(23:14):
negatively to it.
Valerie Earnshaw (23:15):
That's a great flag.
I didn't even, I hadn't eventhought about the issues around
tolerance.
Like I have mentioned reading abunch of your articles and, you
know, being excited to talk toyou.
And a lot of them start withsome of the stats on like
injuries and health issuesassociated with alcohol use
among college students.
So some of the stuff that youcite is a surprising number of
(23:37):
deaths, like 2000 deaths a yearamong college students, almost
600,000 injuries, almost 700,000assaults every year, and then
almost a hundred thousand sexualassaults among college students
every year.
So there really is like, there'sthese health under these health
issues that are associated withthis heavy drinking that college
(23:58):
students are experiencing.
And especially, you know, whenyou bear in mind that isn't an
injury, like one of the top likerisks of death and health issues
that college students, or peopleof that age span, even like
experience?
Like we really do need to payattention to people injuring
themselves.
Dr. Allecia Reid (24:14):
Yeah, no, that's true.
Right.
Because we often think ofinjuries being a minor.
Like I twisted my ankle whileplaying soccer or something.
Right.
But yeah, absolutely.
There's injury related deaths or, you know, very, they're not
prevalent.
Right.
But that is the, typically theleading cause of death for young
adults or till we get into kindof that older life lifetime.
But yeah.
You know, and again, I've hadconversations with friends in
(24:39):
Europe who sort of say like, oh,it was like college students.
"That's just what they do andthey're going to grow out of
it." But I think that the issuesthey are presenting with, like
they are avoidable, especiallywhen you hear about those deaths
happening on college campusesdue to excessive alcohol use
that are completely avoidable.
Right.
That we, I think we want toimpress upon people.
You know, we typically take aharm reduction approach, right.
(25:01):
So it's not, don't drink, butit's, let's get you to a place
of moderate drinking go out andhave fun, enjoy your time with
your friends, but not to a placewhere you're blacked out
vomiting, um, you know, gettinginto sort of risk of death due
to the amount of alcohol you'reconsuming.
So, um, I, I certainly thinkit's worthwhile.
Uh, and I think, and I AAA, uh,continues to fund that work
(25:22):
because they are concernedabout, you know, risk of deaths
and injuries and all thosethings among college students.
Valerie Earnshaw (25:27):
Well, I remember as a college student,
you know, people who died andlike, you know, people who
there's often a lot ofconstruction on campuses.
And so people who fell intoconstruction sites, I mean, Penn
state has 40,000 students there.
So statistically, I bet likeevery weekend someone was
getting injured.
And I remember, you know, 21stbirthdays are big things for
(25:49):
people to go out and have like21 drinks, which is completely
bananas.
And then, so anyway, while I wasan undergrad, they were trying
to just not have people getalcohol poisoning on their 21st
birthday by being like, Hey, 21drinks today is not a good idea.
Carly Hill (26:05):
We'll need your stomach pumped.
Don't do that.
Valerie Earnshaw (26:07):
Not a good way to bring i n that new year.
Well, I was just g oing t o turnin the direction of some of your
research on whether, and how,peers do influence drinking.
C ause I know that you've hadsome sort of nice papers asking,
you know, do peers i nfluencedrinking?
And then how does that occur ifit does occur?
(26:28):
So I was gonna ask you aboutyour findings in that area.
Dr. Allecia Reid (26:28):
Yeah sure, so, short answer yes, they do
influence drinking.
Uh, and so I think, you know,one paper you might be pointing
to is a recent one where we wereusing Alcohol EDU's national
data set to look at, to whatextent does attending a campus
with more heavy drinkers,increase your risk of becoming a
(26:50):
heavy drinker in the firstsemester of college.
And so Alcohol EDU, you do thiscomputer delivered program that
colleges pay a lot of money, um,to use.
Uh, I think it starts at about$15,000 and sort of goes up
depending on how many studentson your campus are going to take
part.
Um, so they, people are payinglots and lots of money to use
this program.
Um, but what's nice is they willlet researchers also use the
(27:13):
data they're collecting to kindof ask interesting research
questions.
So, um, what we were able to dothere was, you know, and again,
because colleges are paying forit, they usually mandate that
students actually complete theprogram.
Um, so you have pretty much afull look at what every student
in a first year class is doingin terms of their alcohol use,
uh, both before they get tocampus and then after they
(27:34):
arrived there, um, which ispretty nice.
Valerie Earnshaw (27:37):
Yeah that's um , your ideal longitudinal data
that you would want to studythis.
Dr. Allecia Reid (27:41):
Yeah, Exactly.
I mean, it's, it's s hort t ermlongitudinal in the sense t hat
by the time we see them thatsecond time point t hey're a
month or two into their collegecareer.
So, you know, i t'd be nice ifwe could get them sort of
towards the end, but y eah, itis what it is.
I'll take it.
U h, b ut i t w as a d ata s etwith 300,000 students I'm on 2
(28:02):
50 campuses across the u s,which, you know, for those of us
who do research, that's like a gold m ine of
Valerie Earnshaw (28:08):
That's amazing.
That's wow.
Okay.
Dr. Allecia Reid (28:10):
Yeah.
So, so yeah, so short takeaway,there was, it was the case that,
um, students who had beenabstainers or moderate drinkers,
uh, before they arrived oncampus were significantly more
likely to become heavy drinkersif they were attending a campus
with a higher percentage ofheavy drinking students.
Um, so that's the sort of like,yes, does it happen?
(28:34):
Um, and then on the how that's,and that's a great question.
So, you know, we did a couple ofstudies, um, one that was
looking at what we would callsort of be psychological
mediators.
So you're trying to capture, um,is it that I'm around heavy
drinking peers and that'sgetting internalized in my own
attitudes.
So I see heavy drinking as agood thing, or I see the norms
(28:54):
as favoring, heavy drinking, um,or I feel low self-efficacy so
low confidence to kind of resist, um, heavy drinking.
And so, you know, we did findsome evidence that it was
operating through people'sattitudes that, you know, being
in a heavy drinking peer groupled to them having more positive
attitudes towards heavy drinkingthemselves.
And that pathway was there, butnot massive.
(29:16):
Um, at all it was, it was apretty small mediational pathway
through attitudes.
So it was like, it's really not,it's really not it.
Valerie Earnshaw (29:24):
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah,
Dr. Allecia Reid (29:27):
Go ahead.
I'll let you ask a follow-upquestion cause you seem like you
have one.
Valerie Earnshaw (29:29):
Well, I was just going to ask, what do you
think is going on then?
I mean one.
Okay, so just big picture.
One of the interesting thingsabout using some of these data
sets, not all-- because I knowyou also do your own data
collection-- but when you'reanalyzing the data, you know, of
a program that's been conductedor something else, you're sort
of like limited in the questionsthat you can ask by, what are
(29:49):
the things that they decided toask.
So, you know, with that in mind,you may have ideas about why
peers or peer influence mightlead to more drinking behavior,
but haven't been able to test itor maybe you have with other,
you know, data that you've, thatyou've collected.
So if it's not necessarily, youknow, this change of attitudes
(30:11):
or some of these other thingsthat you've tested, do you ever
like, do you have a sense ofwhat it is or what it might be?
Dr. Allecia Reid (30:16):
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question.
And so I think, you know, insome more recent work, which
sort of stems from my Fulbrighttime in the UK, um, we've
shifted to looking at this andthese kinds of experimental
contexts where we bring peopleinto the lab, uh, match them up
with someone who they think isjust another participant, but is
really, um, you know, part ofthe research team and we've
(30:37):
trained them to display eitherhigh or low alcohol consumption
during the interaction.
Um, so it's a fun study.
Uh, they're fun to talk about,fun to run.
Um, time-consuming, but fun.
And so, you know, it sort ofswitched over in there to
looking at mimicry.
So, so trying to get a sense ofif I'm in the presence of
someone engaging in heavydrinking, how often is it the
(30:58):
case that simply after they'vetaken a sip and kind of lifted
the cup to their lips, like, amI mimicking that direct behavior
of, you know, just lifting thecup and taking a sip without
even thinking about it?
Um, and so in that study, we didsee a huge pathway operating
through mimicry that, uh, beingin the presence of a heavy
drinker led to more mimicry thanbeing with the light drinker.
(31:20):
And, um, yeah, and that effecton alcohol consumption was
about, like, 95% operatingthrough mimicry.
I mean, it was massive.
Valerie Earnshaw (31:29):
Gosh, you never see that in our work.
Wow.
Okay.
Dr. Allecia Reid (31:34):
You know, and so that's of course, a small, uh
, lab experimental study, right.
Where, you know, people arecoming in and doing this with
someone they've never metbefore, but I do sort of have
the feeling that, you know, justbeing around other people, we're
not, we're not thinking aboutour attitudes towards alcohol
or, you know, any of thosethings in the moment, we're just
sort of potentially mimickingthat action of this person's
(31:57):
drinking.
So I'm drinking.
Right.
And we also know from socialpsych that mimicry has all sorts
of positive benefits, right?
Like I like the person more, ifthey're mimicking me, we have a
more coordinated flowingconversation if we're mimicking
each other.
And so I think those are justthe sort of natural things that
we do to get along well withothers in the environment.
But, you know, that can lead toheavy drinking, uh, potentially
(32:20):
in these kinds of places wherewe might not want to engage in
heavy drinking.
Valerie Earnshaw (32:24):
This is so super interesting.
I mean, when I read that you haddone your Fulbright and you
went, you were like focusing onmimicry.
I don't think I really, like, Ididn't really understand it,
just reading about it, but thedescription of like, I take a
drink, you take a drink.
Like I'm like, oh, of course.
And it is like, it's like asocial lubricant even over,
like, I notice it for myself alot.
And actually my husband picks upon this for me.
(32:47):
He's like, cause I mimic likewords that people use.
Like I'll pick up on their wordsor, you know, over zoom, you can
see it.
Like if someone's sitting therewith like their fist under their
chin or something, then like theother person on zoom or like
people like use the same bodylanguage.
So I always fire back at thehusband just telling him that I
just like have innately veryevolved social skills and get
(33:09):
people to like me.
But that makes total sense to methen that like, you know, who
knows what the factors are,maybe, to get you to the
drinking situation or to get thefirst drink in your hand-- But
once it's there, like if you'reat a table that yeah, People
(33:29):
would be mimicking that, thatparticular behavior and that the
, and that the drinking couldescalate.
That's really a neat finding.
Yeah.
Dr. Allecia Reid (33:38):
Yeah.
No.
And I think, I mean, we do it inall sorts of contexts.
So, you know, one of the guys Iwork with in England, he's
actually really an eatingresearcher.
Right.
And so these conformity, mimicrystudies thinking about food
consumption and sort of eatingsnack foods when with other
people and sort of that thing.
Right.
And so again, I think it's justone of those natural things we
do to kind of, you know, easesocial situations to help them
(34:01):
go well also because we alreadylike the person.
Right.
And so you mimic people when youlike them.
And it's probably typically okayin the eating context, of
course, unless we're talkingabout eating Snickers bars,
right.
Like eating a whole bunch ofSnickers bars, but you know,
again, in the alcohol context,but I do think it results in
problems and you hit on onething that is absolutely true.
Right.
There's a selection versussocialization issues.
(34:25):
Right.
So selection is like, what getsthe person into this group in
the first place?
Because even at this point inour lives, none of us want to be
in a heavy drinking cohort ofpeople.
It just doesn't feel like thatwe want to be, but maybe in our
earlier years that felt, uh,enticing.
Right.
And so different people aregoing to be drawn to those
environments to begin with.
So I think, yeah, you, youabsolutely hit that nail on the
(34:47):
head, but I think once they'rethere, right.
That those mimicry issues docome into play.
Valerie Earnshaw (34:51):
The other thing that's really interesting
to me about this just with likemy scientist hat on, which is
always on.
So I'm not sure why I pointedthat out, but you know, that the
methods really matter forstudying this, right?
So like some of your work andlike all of us who do health
behavior research is reallybased on like surveys and asking
(35:12):
people about their perceptionsor, you know, you have this
really great work asking peopleabout, I really liked your
accuracy work, where you triedto see like, do people actually
know how much their friends aredrinking and we can come back to
that just in a moment.
But what's really interesting tome is that if you were someone
who just stays like in thesurvey lane or you just use one
(35:35):
methodology and you don't branchout and use other methodologies,
you're not going to find the bigmedium.
Like you're not going to findthe big pathway or the big
reason why peer influence mightbe impacting alcohol use.
And that that's superinteresting to me because a lot
of people will spend their wholecareers, like just doing like
survey data analysis orsomething like that.
Dr. Allecia Reid (35:57):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, I bouncedquite a bit, like, as you've
noted, I've done some with likethe large existing data sets
that are out there and thencollected my own data, um, with
survey correlational approachesand then made this pretty
deliberate shift of like, Iwanted this experimental piece,
um, as a part of the type ofwork I was doing.
Um, and so, you know, reachedout to folks in England to be
(36:18):
able to do that work.
But yeah, I think, I mean, Ithink it's good to come at
things from all differentangles, right.
To sort of shape your thinking,because I think you're right.
If you stay in that sort of-- wecan't measure mimicry, right?
Valerie Earnshaw (36:30):
That's the price!
Dr. Allecia Reid (36:31):
I can't give you a[inaudible] So some of
those are those things that youjust need to get people in a
room and see what's happening, um, in order to kind of the feel
of what's going on in thoseinteractions.
Valerie Earnshaw (36:43):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Carly Hill (36:44):
That's fascinating.
Valerie Earnshaw (36:46):
So you mentioned that you're using the
it's you said it's likealcohol.edu, this, um, that's
like the educationalintervention.
Okay.
So some of your work has alsolooked at like intervention
strategies and what works andCarly, actually, we were
chatting before this and she waslike, she actually talked about
alcoholic.edu.
Carly Hill (37:03):
Like, so we had to take that test and that's what,
you know, I I'm always the onethat's like, okay.
So like, but what can we do?
Like, what do-- you know, that'sjust how my brain works.
And so I was thinking to myselfthough, like, I think, you know,
UDS approach was the alcohol EDUcourse and like all the freshmen
had to take that.
And, you know, I can say withpretty high levels of certainty,
that there was not a moment inmy social circle where any of us
(37:24):
thought,"you know what though,I'm going to put this beer down
because alcohol EDU said" like,and"I should stop after, you
know, three or four." So it'slike, you know, we, we know all
these things.
It's just like, how, what inyour head What's like the ideal,
best case intervention?
Like what's really going tosolve it in this perfect world?
Dr. Allecia Reid (37:43):
Yeah.
I mean, I think you're right.
So I'm not going to bashAlcohol.edu Since they've been
very kind to me, but, Alchol.eduum, they do seem to do better
than sort of no intervention inthat first semester.
But I think by the secondsemester is when you see the,
um, effects really dissipate.
I mean, at least when they'vedone randomized control trials,
(38:04):
it does seem like it has somebenefit over kind of no
intervention at all.
But you know, to me thinkingabout the intervention
strategies that are reallyactually working, I mean, I'm
going to say norms.
It's like what we see in theliterature at least is that, uh,
knowing what the social normsare on your campus, um, having
an accurate representation ofthose is usually effective,
(38:26):
efficacious, to some extent inreducing alcohol use.
Sorry, I'm, I'm thinking justbecause we're talking about
these first year students andthinking about, has norms ever
been applied to incoming firstyear students?
I imagine it has it's often,It's just much more often used
(38:46):
with students who have alreadybeen on campus.
Right.
So they have this view of here'swhat I think is going on in, you
know, at UD and then they findout no people aren't drinking 36
drinks a week.
It's really like nine, you know,that's, that's a pretty common
like,
Valerie Earnshaw (39:02):
That is actually my story.
So I was at Penn State, I hadthis like really overblown idea
of how much people weredrinking, b ecause what you see
is the people who are totallydrunk and outside.
And I was like a third.
I was i n my third or fourthyear.
And they started putting u pthese posters around.
That was like the average Pennstate student has like, think it
(39:23):
was like three drinks a night orsomething.
And I saw that I actually was soblown over by the statistic that
I remember exactly where I was,I was in a bathroom, and I just
was like, it was tremendouslylower than what I thought that
it was.
And so, but you're totallyright.
In that that's kind of backwardsbecause those posters were
(39:48):
definitely a health behaviorintervention to try to change
norms.
But I didn't see it until I wasa third year student.
I did alcohol E DU my firstyear.
And then I, like, I had thisreally inflated perception of
the drinking norms on my campus.
And then third or fourth yearit's being changed.
Dr. Allecia Reid (40:07):
Yeah.
And that's, it's interestingbecause in the past, I don't
know where alcohol EDU is now,but norms were kind of the one
thing that they weren'tincluding in alcohol EDU, so
unusual, all that it was like ofall of the things you could do
with the interventionliterature, it's unusual that
you were missing this likepretty critical piece that the
literature says is the one thingthat seems to be working.
(40:29):
So yeah, so they hadn't, buthopefully they've added it in
more recent years, um, to theirintervention approach.
Um, you know, but there'scertainly other things, right.
I think I've been reallyinterested in how we teach
people about protectivebehavioral strategies they can
use while drinking.
So, you know, if you findyourself in a heavy drinking
situation, right, but maybe youdon't want to be hung over
(40:49):
tomorrow or, you know, you know,you're pushing into a place
where you'd rather not be, um,what are the things that you
could be doing, like alternatingyour alcoholic beverage with
water, or if someone offers youa drink and you don't want to be
the person who says like, no,I'm going to pass on this one.
Right.
You could take it and set itdown somewhere or pretend to
drink it, or, you know, allthose sorts of things that
sometimes when you say tostudents, they're like, I never
(41:12):
thought of that, you know, thatthey can use to manage these
drinking situations if theydon't want to drink quite as
much in that environment.
Valerie Earnshaw (41:20):
Love it.
It's like a harm reductionapproach.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really interesting.
Cause we think a lot about harmreduction in the context of, you
know, heroin, opioid usedisorders, things like that.
Like people are going tocontinue in this behavior and
what is it that we can do tolike minimize the harms
associated or minimize use maybeor something like that.
(41:41):
And so this is a reallyinteresting approach.
Like you're a member of thisfraternity, I don't know you're
going to go to this party.
Like what can we do while we'rethere?
And it's also interesting tointroduce those strategies, like
to younger people, like now Iknow like exactly which friends,
you know, the parties I go tobut who are like sneaking a
(42:02):
seltzer into there, but youknow, like they're drinking a
seltzer in a way that you wouldnever know it because they don't
really want anyone to know whatthey're drinking or not, but
they're kind of like they'redoing some of these behaviors
and kind of a low key way, butthey learnt they'd been drinking
for 15 years.
You know, it's been 15 yearssince they are 20 years that
they've turned 21 and they'vepicked up those strategies along
(42:25):
the way.
Right?
Yeah, yeah,
Dr. Allecia Reid (42:28):
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
I mean, and I've even used someof these strategies in recent
years, right?
I'm like, this is not where Iwant to be tomorrow.
I want to sort of keep myselfaway from that bad place.
I'm going to get a water or likedilute the drink or, you know,
whatever it is.
but still be in the environmentand having fun.
(42:49):
Right.
It's sort of probably reachedthe limit of where I need to go.
Valerie Earnshaw (42:53):
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.
All right.
So I wanted to ask just brieflybefore we let you go off and,
you know, continue with your endof semester stuff about your
Fulbright experience quicklybecause we've alluded to it a
couple of times.
And to be honest, I just have avery romantic idea of what a
(43:14):
Fulbright experience would belike, just hanging out in
another country, like thinkingdeep thoughts and building,
like, building networks orsomething.
So I just want to ask you alittle bit about your experience
and listening to you talk, itsounds like it was pretty great.
I mean, I know you spent a yearin the UK and it sounds like you
(43:34):
were able to like immerseyourself in this mimicry, like,
research and learn a bit aboutthat, but how has the experience
for you and, and is that, isthat perception accurate, was it
very romantic thoughts?
Dr. Allecia Reid (43:48):
Well, that's a good question.
Okay.
So l et's say, u h, theexperience was amazing.
U m, I would highly recommendeveryone if they have the
opportunity go, go abroad on asabbatical, take that time and
sort of get out of the US a nddo something different for a
bit.
I, you know, the thing that'sinteresting about Fulbright is
that at least in the UK, u m,they give you this money.
(44:09):
It was 15,000 pounds, u m, atthe time, and it's not
necessarily designated forresearch, right.
So, you know, and some peoplehave different, u m, sabbatical
situations, I think I was fundedat 80% f rom my college.
So I still felt comfortablewith, u m, you know, living
expenses.
U m, so I was able to use someof that money towards the actual
research, but it they're not,you know, they're actually not
(44:31):
you to do the research.
So I think that's the trickinessof it, of the study wasn't cheap
to run, right?
L ike we had to payparticipants, we had to buy
alcohol and breathalyzer tubes and, you know, all sorts of
things that you have to have onhand to actually do the work.
U m, and I still had some, somemoney f rom my college that
helped to, to do that.
(44:52):
So I think it would depend onhow much deep pondering you're
doing.
The work would depend on likewhat your funding situation is.
Right.
U m, so I think it would justvary, but yeah, no, it was, it
was really amazing.
And I'm still sort ofcollaborating with the guys in
England.
U m, t hey worked with, wesubmitted a grant together pre
pandemic to continue this work,u m, where we were going to be
(45:15):
looking at conformity andmimicry.
And to what extent differentinterventions might reduce the
tendency to engage in thatbehavior, you know, then the
pandemic hit and it was like,yeah, no, no, we're not going to
bring two people into a smallwindowless room and let them
drink together.
Y eah.
Valerie Earnshaw (45:32):
You couldn't get that past your ethics board.
Dr. Allecia Reid (45:34):
Yeah.
I'm hoping to resubmit it, butyou know, l ike when during the
pandemic it just s eemed likethere's no work around for this.
So we're just g oing t o holdoff until, until t hat happens.
U m, yeah.
But you know, I would say it'slike in the moments moving to
another country is not easy,right?
Like there was, there werethese, u h, things that had to
(45:56):
happen.
A nd I took my husband and mytwo small children.
U m, my son was a k indergartenat that time.
So we had to get h im intoschool in the UK, which is
entirely different educationalsystem.
We have, like, it's not like the, just show up and enroll in
school.
It's, there's a wholeapplication process that happens
like way before the start of theschool year.
(46:16):
So that was a nightmare.
I t hink there's just thingsabout moving to another country,
even a n English speakingcountry, where there's just
going to be disconnects.
W here yeah, it was, I wasthinking and thinking about this
l ittle earlier today, i t'slike, t here was definitely the
day where I was standing in thecopy room almost in tears b
ecause I just couldn't, Icouldn't find a stapler.
(46:38):
I couldn't eat, you know, whatever that l ike minor thing
is t hat finally like triggersyou because you're j ust
overwhelmed by this newsituation.
But, u m, all in all though,great experience, wouldn't...
so glad that we did it, wouldn'thave traded it for the world.
Valerie Earnshaw (46:53):
And that's really neat that the
collaboration has continuedbecause my impression is that
that's just part of, you know,the goal of the program is not
thinking deep thoughts andinteresting places, but that the
goal of the program is to likefacilitate international
collaboration and connectionbetween folks internationally.
And so it sounds like this was a, a good investment from
Fulbright because you're stilldoing the work and you still
(47:15):
have these connections.
So that's true.
Absolutely.
Dr. Allecia Reid (47:18):
I feel like they, like, they directly ask
you, like,"how will you fosterthe special relationship
between..." U m, but yes, thatis a big focus is, like, you
know not just this six months ora year that you s pend there,
but how do you keep this going?
And so I took that prettyseriously, but also like wrote
another paper with the groupthat I was in.
(47:39):
U m, and so, yeah, so I think wejust worked really well
together.
I respect them a lot andappreciate like, you know, t
heir, their outlook on things.
So I appreciate working withthem and then other great things
that happened while I was thereis t here's also a, they've now
left the EU, but there was an EUFulbright component where you
could be invited to another EUcountry to give a talk.
(48:01):
U m, and Fulbright would likepay for some of those costs for
you to do that.
And so there were some folks whodid some similar work in the
Netherlands who l ike, thoughtabout going to work with, but
decided that the UK was going tobe a better fit.
U m, so I went out, gave a talkto them and I, you know, have
done conference presentationswith that group, u h, have
another paper in the works withthem.
(48:22):
So a lot of good things, youknow, collaborations and
connections came from that year.
For sure.
Valerie Earnshaw (48:28):
Awesome.
All right.
Well, keep it in the radar thenI'm just like Southern France,
Fulbright sabbatical, you know,decade.
I don't know.
That's that's...
Dr. Allecia Reid (48:42):
I mean, and there was also, you know, there
was, there was lovely, uh,drinking and pubs and, uh,
Carly Hill (48:50):
you have to eat a sausage roll or two, you can't
let them, you can't let them goto waste.
Valerie Earnshaw (48:56):
I man, next time we're at a conference, I'm
worried that we're going to notworried.
I'm excited to go get a drinkwith you maybe, and then just,
we can just watch each othermimic each other.
I know.
We're just going to be,
Dr. Allecia Reid (49:12):
They're going well, if we're mimicking each
other.
So yeah.
Yeah, there we go.
Valerie Earnshaw (49:15):
It means to be like each other.
Okay.
Well, Allecia reading up on yourwork, like to prep for this, but
it's just such a pleasure andsuch a treat because not only do
I think that the topics thatyou're studying are super
interesting and important, butjust like we've been talking
about through this episode, themethods and the data analytics
strategies that you apply toyour work, are, like, are so
(49:36):
smart and interesting.
Like every time I would read apaper, I would be like,"oh wow!"
Like this is a really innovativeand neat approach.
And I think it's hard for peoplewho are like, as prolific as you
are, to each time you're doing astudy, to take that new and
interesting approach.
Like I think people fall intolike, you know, I'm going to do
this type of analysis again andagain and again and again with
(49:58):
the same data set.
So I am just so impressed.
It was such a treat to readabout it and, you know, thank
you so much for coming on todayand talking with us about your
work.
Carly Hill (50:08):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
We really appreciate it.
Dr. Allecia Reid (50:11):
And thanks to both of you for having me.
It's was super fun.
I thought it was going to bescary, but it was fun.
Valerie Earnshaw (50:18):
Thanks to the Stigma and Health Inequities Lab
at the University of Delawarefor their help in the podcast,
including Sarah Lopez, MollyMarine, James Wallace, and
Ashley Roberts.
Carly Hill (50:26):
Thanks to city girl for the music.
As always be sure to check usout on Instagram
@sexdrugsscience, and stay up todate on new episodes by clicking
subscribe.
Valerie Earnshaw (50:36):
Thanks to all of you for listening.
(51:08):
[inaudible].
Okay.
I'm Valerie Earnshaw.
Carly Hill (00:13):
I'm Carly hill.
Valerie Earnshaw (00:14):
and this is sex drugs and science.
Carly Hill (00:17):
Today's conversation is with Dr.
Allecia Reid.
Allecia is an assistantprofessor of social psychology
at the University ofMassachusetts.
The research aims to understandthe psychological, social, and
environmental factors thatrelate to health behaviors and
to improve the design of healthpromotion interventions.
We talked with Allecia about herresearch on peer influence and
(00:38):
alcohol use.
And I really enjoyed thisconversation.
We talked about the role ofmimicry specifically in alcohol
use.
So essentially like copyingsomeone's behaviors and this
conversation has stuck with me.
So now I'm just like seeingmimicry everywhere.
I don't know about you, but i'man eating walking hand duster,
(00:58):
I'm like a full-time mimicrymonitor over here, seeing it
everywhere, everywhere.
So I hope that you all enjoythis conversation even half as
much as I did.
Valerie Earnshaw (01:14):
Dr.
Allecia Reed.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
Dr. Allecia Reid (01:18):
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be here with you.
Valerie Earnshaw (01:21):
Yeah, it's great to see you.
So I thought that we would startby sort of walking through your
background and training sopeople can get to know you a
little bit.
So you did your bachelor's inpsychology at the university of
Connecticut.
And I think actually, while youwere there, you were, I think
you're a research assistant umworking on like meta-analyses
(01:41):
with Dr.
Johnson.
Was that right?
Dr. Allecia Reid (01:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's correct.
So I, um, finished my bachelor'sdegree at UConn and I'm sure
like, lots of people kind of didthe, like, what am I doing with
my life?
And what's, what am I doing postgraduation?
And, uh, thankfully1 Dr.
Blair Johnson was looking for afull-time research assistant and
somehow my CV landed in hishands and was able to get a
(02:05):
full-time position with him forthat year.
Yeah.
And so I, you know, I think whenyou do those positions, you kind
of get filtered into theacademic lifestyle and you're
sort of like, okay, this feels,this feels okay.
Right.
And ended up applying for gradschool in that year and getting
in, in that year.
So it was a short time as aresearch assistant at Uconn,
but, but a good one for sure.
Valerie Earnshaw (02:26):
Well, it had a big impact because I got to
UConn a few years later for gradschool.
And I actually had theimpression at the time that you
had been a PhD student in ourprogram because people spoke so
highly of you, so highly of youand, you know, your work and
(02:47):
your skill set that I really, Ihad this impression that you,
you know, had a PhD like maybefive years before you actually
did.
Dr. Allecia Reid (02:56):
That's hilarious.
I appreciate of the love fromthe, especially the CHIP folks,
Center for Health andIntervention Prevention at
UConn.
I don't know what I could'vedone.
I did a really good jobcoordinating the lecture series
and ordering food.
I don't know.
I guess that was the thing thatI did really well.
So.
Valerie Earnshaw (03:13):
I think they just knew.
They could see, you know, you'rea budding star and they, they
were, yeah.
I don't know.
I, I had the impression thatthey were, they were really
proud of you and they thoughtvery highly of you, which was
very cool.
All right.
So you took this gap year andthen you, uh, you land at
Arizona State University and youdo your Masters and your PhD
there in psych, right?
(03:34):
Is that correct?
Dr. Allecia Reid (03:35):
Yeah.
Valerie Earnshaw (03:36):
And my impression is that while you
were there, you had like aparticularly strong training in
stats and methods, was thatcorrect?
Or is my impression Right?
Dr. Allecia Reid (03:46):
Yeah, no, that is correct.
So my graduate advisor was Leona A iken.
U m, she's since retired, butshe's w ell k nown in the field
of quantitative psychology.
Lots of people w ill use her bigregression book, Cohen, Cohen,
West, and Aikin.
Right.
Uh, i f you take Regression as agrad student.
Um, y eah.
And so we actually had aquantitative program, but I was
(04:07):
in the social program of course,u m, a t A rizona state, but she
was the founding chair of thequantitative program.
And also of course taught in itas well as her husband, Steve
west.
Um, a nd so she just said, Idon't care how many classes you
need, You're taking every statsclass we offer.
So that just meant by virtue, Itook everything we offered.
(04:28):
Interestingly, except MissingData.
And now I'm kicking myself fornot taking Missing Data.
Like, I got to a point of liketoo much stats right.
And wanting a break from it.
But, u m, ye ah, it was, it wasgreat.
And I thank her profusely forpushing us all in that direction
of"learn the sta ts", b ecausethis will be handy in your back
pocket for the rest of yourcareer.
(04:49):
And it actually has been.
Valerie Earnshaw (04:51):
Yeah.
I mean, you're a phenomenal,like methodologist and
statistician on top of all ofyour content expertise.
Dr. Allecia Reid (04:58):
That's so kind of you to say!
Valerie Earnshaw (04:58):
Well, it's just, it's just really clear in
reading your work.
So, so that's really neat.
Cause we actually, in our gradprogram at the beginning of
every year, they go around andlike the faculty are supposed to
give like one piece of advice tothe incoming graduate students,
and it sort of ranges from,like, don't forget to get enough
(05:19):
sleep to, like, all sorts ofthings.
And one person every year islike take all of the classes
that you can, all of the likequantitative or statistics
classes.
And I think that there really issomething to, like, if you build
these methodological skills oryou accumulate this like toolkit
of stats, analyses that you cando, then you can study lots of
(05:42):
things.
Dr. Allecia Reid (05:43):
That's true.
And I think the other piece ofdoing it while you're in grad
school is that, of course youcan take these workshops after,
right.
But they're three day, five daykind of crash course workshops,
as opposed to taking a fullsemester kind of getting the lay
of the land and really kind of,you know, getting your feet wet
with it, I feel like is a muchbetter way to learn, especially
for me statistical methods thenlike, you know, these five day
(06:06):
courses where you're like, am Iever going to use this?
If I've taken anything away fromthis.
Valerie Earnshaw (06:13):
Yeah.
I'm like really guilty of thethree-day Stats Course.
Then I'm like, what's themulti-level?
What's the second level?
What's...
What Is hierarchical again?
Yeah.
So, I mean, I totally agree withthat.
I mean, I know I took astructural equation modeling
like a certain type of statsclass in grad school and I know
that like really well in andout.
(06:34):
And then the three and five dayclasses are a little bit of a
different story, but yeah.
Dr. Allecia Reid (06:39):
Yeah.
And then the other thingactually I will say that I was
lucky to be able to do was ITA'd two classes, growth
modeling and multi-levelmodeling.
Right.
And it's like, you learn thingsbest when you now have to teach
them to other people.
So, and it was like the secondtime seeing the course taught.
So it was like this refresherplus like, oh, I really have to
know this.
So if people ask questions, um,I'm ready to answer them.
(07:02):
And so I think those were greatexperiences that kind of helped
me to use those techniques andthen now build on them, right.
With the new things coming downthe pipe.
Valerie Earnshaw (07:12):
Yeah, that's certainly true from my seat that
you like, it becomes very clearvery quickly what you don't know
and you're trying to teach it tosomebody else, especially a
graduate student.
You've really got to have itfigured out.
So that's definitely a goodobservation.
Yeah.
All right.
So then you pack up all yourstats skills from Arizona and
(07:32):
you come back to the east coast,you start a postdoc at the
center for interdisciplinaryresearch on AIDS at Yale
university, which is where wemet.
I got to see like all of thesestats skills up close in person.
Dr. Allecia Reid (07:45):
Yeah.
Valerie Earnshaw (07:47):
Yeah.
I remember Carly.
Like I got there.
I was, like, very green andAllecia is like, okay, here's
how I manage-- She was managingthis like, you know, ongoing
data collection for this bigrandomized controlled trial.
So big intervention study in thefield of pregnancy.
And she was like, showing me,you know, how she was pulling
together the data.
And I was just like, I'm so inover my head, because she also,
(08:13):
at the time was you know, shewas transitioning over to brown
for post-doc that was it morefocused on alcohol use, which
is, you know, her area.
But I was like, please neverleave.
Please stay here forever.
Carly Hill (08:25):
How am I going to do this alone?
Valerie Earnshaw (08:27):
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Allecia Reid (08:29):
Yeah.
That data set was just generallygenerally difficult.
What is like every download.
It was like, there was, therewas always going to be something
that was wrong with thedownloaded.
It was a fun one for sure.
Valerie Earnshaw (08:42):
Yeah, it was, that was definitely a good
practice.
But, um, but yeah, so, but thenyou land at Brown and you start
focusing on alcohol use at Brownand it seems like that was a
great experience because, youknow, some point along the way
you had really started todevelop this interest in peer
influence and alcohol use.
Right.
So did you, did you settle intothat interest at Brown or did
(09:04):
you develop that earlier andthen seek out Brown because of
their focus on alcohol?
Dr. Allecia Reid (09:10):
Yeah, I would say that I sought Brown out
because of the alcohol focus.
So, I went to Arizona State inpart because of my advisor being
a health psychologist,quantitatively minded.
Um, but also Bob Cialdini wasthere, um, who is sort of one of
the big names in the field ofNorms, uh, research and, and
sort of, you know, that history.
(09:30):
And so I always knew I kind ofwanted to do something in that
realm.
Uh, and so my dissertation was asunscreen intervention that used
normative information toencourage women to use sunscreen
and wear hats and all thatstuff.
But I was never going to dosunscreen work, like as a life
thing, I'm going to make a lotof sense in Arizona.
(09:51):
It only rains 30 days a year inArizona.
So it's like every day is anopportunity for protection, but,
and we should be doing it in theNortheast as well.
Actually we have really highrates of melanoma.
So, so use your sunscreen.
Carly Hill (10:02):
using this as a plug for a PSA for sunscreen.
Dr. Allecia Reid (10:06):
Yeah.
So then I, then I got to Yaleand was sort of, you know,
staying in the HIV condom use,um, sort of sexual risk-taking
realm there and just realized itwas really not the right area to
think about.
Norms research that, you know,in the context of sexual
relationships, that's reallykind of partner dynamics, right.
And less so, Like, these broadviews of how others view this
(10:28):
behavior.
Um, and so I really kind of madea, like, did a lot of thinking
about what makes sense if thisis what I want to do, what's the
right behavior for this.
And, you know, it just seemslike college students and
alcohol, uh, where else can youvery obviously see peer
influence happening, um, on aweekly basis.
Right.
Um, and so, sought out, uh,Brown for that reason and, you
(10:51):
know, sort of academic world issmall, right.
Um, and interconnections leadyou to different places.
So my advisor there, Kate Carriehad been faculty at Syracuse
University with Blair Johnsonwhen he'd been, uh, at Syracuse
before coming to UConn.
And so I'd been in a meetingwith her husband at some point
(11:11):
who heard me talking about normsand said, are you looking for a
postdoc?
And I was like, no, I'm notright now, I'm at Yale.
And so when I was looking toleave Yale, I just reached out
to her and said, I think we'd bea really good fit together, any
chance that you take a postdoc.
And so, uh, we met and it workedout and it was a great
experience.
It, uh, you know, I'm stilldoing alcohol work and, uh, some
strong in that direction.
(11:33):
So it was definitely the rightmove.
Valerie Earnshaw (11:35):
That's such an interesting behind the scenes,
like, look at how this happenssometimes.
I sometimes give this littleprofessional development talk
where I essentially map out allof the places I've worked and
how my like mentors and bossesare connected to each other.
And people are really, you know,people are really surprised to
see like, it's, by the time it'sall up there, it's like, it's a
(11:58):
super densely connected web, youknow?
And, and I think that that'slike a, that's also a great
takeaway of how these,especially post-docs sometimes
happen of, they're not alwayslike something is posted.
Sometimes it's reaching out andsaying, you know, like I think
this would be a great fit, whatcan we think about doing?
Dr. Allecia Reid (12:17):
Yeah.
And, you know, and I'll say herfirst reaction was"no".
Valerie Earnshaw (12:23):
Oh okay, How did you turn that around?
Dr. Allecia Reid (12:23):
She said,"No, I'm not looking for a p ostdoc".
Right.
U m, and so I said, oh, youknow, I would be willing to
apply for funding.
You know, is there any, wouldyou be open to that?
U h, and then we worked out away to apply for the funding for
it.
U m, so yeah, it is.
And I think i t's certainlyhelped right?
That I was connected.
And I think I have a paper withher husband because he's worked
(12:44):
a lot with Blair Johnson on HIVwork.
So I think, yeah, those, thoseconnections, you cannot
underestimate where they willtake you, u h, throughout your,
throughout your career.
Valerie Earnshaw (12:55):
Well, I love the story of it more now that
she said, it started with a no.
And then you were like,"let me--what if I pay for myself?"
Carly Hill (13:00):
Yeah! Cause well, cause that's what I was going to
say.
Like, yeah.
I mean, what's the worst theycan do, say no?
And it's like, well, yeah, no,actually,
Dr. Allecia Reid (13:09):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so, you know, to be fair,right.
She'd found a postdoc.
Right.
And so she really wasn't lookingfor another one, but she was at
least open to kind of hearing meout.
And I think she might have beena reviewer on my dissertation
paper.
Um, so I couldn't, yeah.
I feel like there was lots ofinterconnections.
Like she, you know, there werelots of reasons she was open to
(13:29):
it that were not just"thisrandom person has shown up in my
inbox asking to be a post- doc"
Valerie Earnshaw (13:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny how these thingshappen and yeah.
How people like learn about yourwork through all sorts of, you
know, funny ways that...
Well, Carly and I are superexcited to talk to you about
your work on alcohol use andstudents in part, because the
university of Delaware has beena number one party school over
(13:55):
the years.
You may not know this about us,
Dr. Allecia Reid (13:57):
I did not know this.
Valerie Earnshaw (13:57):
but, and one of the really interesting parts
about the University of Delawarethat I think is like, is really
relevant to a conversation onpeer influence is that we have,
you know, the university andthen we have a downtown and
there's a few streets thatintersect-- don't worry, this
geography lesson has a point.
(14:20):
These roads that are in downtownare most, there are a lot of
like student rentals and a lotof the houses have these like
big porches.
And so in the spring timestarting, I don't know, even
like starting in like when it'sway too cold for this to be hot.
So like March, February, you golike starting Thursday, Friday,
Saturday, Sunday, people, those,these like porches are like
(14:43):
overrun with students who aredrinking.
And it's just, it's a veryvisible, like, you can, you can
see it, they're playing drinkinggames.
People are like walking aroundwith coolers.
So our drinking culture, I feellike is very visible.
Is that how you...
that's how I experienced it as afaculty member.
Is that how you experienced it,Carly, as a student?
(15:04):
Or..
I had to drive past it everydayon the way home essentially.
Carly Hill (15:08):
Yeah.
And it's not, you know, I'msomeone that, um, grew up on
campus too at the University ofDelaware.
And so just seeing that's howit's always been.
To me, growing up, just like, Ijust thought that was like
college in general until I gotout and was like, oh no, not all
colleges are like this.
And I think a lot of it isbecause, and I think that this
has changed also, but when I wasgrowing up, it was really huge
(15:29):
and very much like Greek lifecentered, which I think had a
lot to do with it too.
Like even I know um like the bigthing every year-- And I think
this still is true-- They giveeach other coolers that they've
decorated.
Just like, that's the big giftthat you get in the fraternity
or sorority that you're in.
Like, so it's just like thedrinking is so ingrained in that
(15:49):
culture in general, but I justalways thought like, oh, that's
college.
Cause that's what I grew uplooking at, you know?
And then coming to figure outthat, like maybe we take it a
little bit harder than, othercolleges do over here.
Valerie Earnshaw (16:01):
Yeah.
So Allecia, I was really curiousabout, you know, it sounds like
you've had, you had the intereston peer influence or, you know,
and, and health behaviors for awhile.
So how did, and was it just thatthis was like a good context to
study that, to study thesedynamics?
Or was there something elseabout alcohol use that was
interesting for you andsomething that you wanted to
(16:22):
study more?
Dr. Allecia Reid (16:23):
Yeah.
I mean, I think, you know, beingan undergrad at UConn, if you
haven't, you haven't been toUConn, it does not sound as
exciting as Delaware.
It's like pretty remote.
Uh, yeah.
Not, there's not a nice downtownwith these intersecting streets
where there's like, partieshappening, that's, that's not
UConn at all, but UConn has alsobeen kind of top of the party
(16:45):
school list, um, at points.
Uh, and then, you know, Arizonastate always has that
reputation.
Right.
Which is, just too bad forArizona state.
But yeah.
So I would say having seen it,it just felt like that was a
place where I could clearly seehow peer influence would, would
make a big difference in thosetypes of contacts and even just
(17:07):
our perceptions of what othersare doing would really matter a
lot for the alcohol-use domain.
So yes, I would say it's, youknow, sort of having, having
watched and witnessed it, um,sort of unfolding in various
spaces around me that made meinterested in studying that,
that particular behavior.
Valerie Earnshaw (17:25):
And I think, you know, something, I didn't
realize when I was anundergraduate, because I also,
you know, to backdate I startedat Penn state, which is another,
so now that we're saying this,I'm like, I feel like every
school, you know, at Penn state,then I went to UConn, now I'm at
university of Delaware.
And I feel like all of thoseplaces have been like top
(17:46):
drinking schools you know?
Like is it following me or...
Dr. Allecia Reid (17:50):
What you were describing.
I was like, thinking,"thatsounds like Penn State"
Valerie Earnshaw (17:55):
It looks alot, actually like Penn State,
because Penn State is also supervisible.
Like there's, there's less ofthis porch thing, but you know,
you can, you just see theundergrads, like walking around
in the evenings and they'relike, hoards of...
It's just very invisible.
Carly Hill (18:10):
Well in UD it used to be way more visible when we
were more like Penn state withthe tailgating.
But we banned that now for themost part.
Or made it more difficult.
It's not, not like it used tobe, but that was like another
huge thing.
And then you'd see-- if youthink like drinking downtown is
bad now-- Like people in throwsjust going to the stadium and
stuff.
Like it was a totally differentworld.
(18:32):
So I guess, I don't know ifthat's one of the things that
they did to crack down on it.
It was like the no tailgating orwhat the deal with that is.
But...
Dr. Allecia Reid (18:39):
Yeah, and I mean, I was going to say one
thing that is interestingthough, is that when you look
nationally, right, and I guesssort of, you know, these kind of
hot-spots aside, um, the placeswhere you actually get the most
drinking are the small liberalarts colleges.
Valerie Earnshaw (18:54):
I never would have guessed that.
Dr. Allecia Reid (18:55):
Yeah, it's totally opposite of what you
would think.
Right.
And, really it's right.
So we go to like the Tailgating,all of those, you know, frats,
the very visible things that wecan think of at large
universities.
Um, but large universities, wehave commuters, we have kids who
live off campus and have, areworking their way with jobs and
various things whereastypically, you know, the liberal
(19:17):
arts are kind of residentialenvironments.
Like they're really not leavingthat campus community much to
drive and, and sort of go placesto meet people.
And so you do tend to see moredrinkers, right?
So you get fewer abstainers onthose smaller, uh, campuses.
And they tend to be a little bitheavier drinking.
Valerie Earnshaw (19:34):
I had no idea, but intuitively makes a lot of
sense.
I mean, you're, this is hangingout in your dorms and everyone's
got their bottles of vodka orwhatever it is.
Their 99 bananas.
There's also a residentassistant.
So it's my job to like goconfiscate alcohol from the 18
year olds.
And it was always 99 bananas orlike something blue,
Carly Hill (19:59):
like the cheap plastic bottle of Burnett's.
Valerie Earnshaw (20:02):
Yeah.
One time, uh, one of my parents,my dad came to visit like on a
Sunday morning and I had been onduty the night before.
And my, I had, I just hadn'ttaken the stuff over, like to
the commons to drop it off yet.
So I had like the hot bluebottle, the pink bottle all
lined up anyway,
Carly Hill (20:23):
but I am happy that you brought up the idea of heavy
drinking.
Allecia, can you define for thelisteners, like what is heavy
drinking when you're going on,you're doing this research for
college campuses?
Like, what is, how is thatdefined?
Dr. Allecia Reid (20:35):
Yeah.
Well, I'm going to give you the,the American definition.
And certainly people in Europehave said, like,"that's not
heavy drinking!".
I mean, we, so our officialdefinition-- and it's gender
specific-- is, um, for men, fiveor more drinks in a two hour
period.
Um, and for women, it's four ormore drinks, in that two hour
(20:57):
period.
Since women metabolize alcohol,a little more slowly than men do
in practice.
In terms of like actualresearch, I typically have never
actually been, you know,measured that period.
Right.
So it's usually just in onenight, um, it's good enough to
kind of capture that heavydrinking designation, but still
men having five or more drinksin a night and women doing four
in a night.
(21:18):
And I said the European thing,because sometimes they just sort
of like, it doesn't sound thatbad to me.
Valerie Earnshaw (21:24):
You did a Fulbright.
Maybe I know, hopefully we'llget to this later, but you did a
Fulbright.
So was that when you were, youwere doing your Fulbright in the
UK, was that also the heavydrinking or was there like a
different marker for what haveyou drinking would be there?
Dr. Allecia Reid (21:37):
Oh goodness.
They do have a different marker.
They also measure alcoholdifferently than we do since
most things come in pints.
And then they differentiatebetween like regular versus
strong lagers.
So I can't even give you thesort of definition means
Valerie Earnshaw (21:53):
A substantial barrier to international
research.
Dr. Allecia Reid (21:57):
It is actually, there's some things
we've been working on with ameta analysis that spans
multiple countries where we'dlike to bring in, like"what's
the per capita alcoholconsumption?".
Right.
And then we're like, wait, but Idon't even, how do we get to
that number when we're talkingabout 12 ounces in the US versus
a pint in the UK and they'redifferentiating how much alcohol
(22:18):
is in it and it's kind of anightmare, but whatever we're
going to get there eventually.
Valerie Earnshaw (22:23):
So interesting.
I've never even like, never eventhought about that.
So, okay.
And like, to me now, as somebodywho is not a college student and
hasn't been for a long time...
Four drinks in two hours I wouldbe unconscious.
Like I would be down, like, itdoes actually, as you get older,
I think it sounds especiallylike that's a,"I'm going to be
(22:46):
in trouble the next day" withfour drinks in two hours.
So it does sound like a healthyamount of drinks in a night to
me.
Dr. Allecia Reid (22:51):
Yeah, For sure.
For sure.
And, and, you know, I think wehave to remember students are
often building up theirtolerance for better and worse
over time, right?
So presumably for you or I, atthis point, four drinks even
spread out over a whole daywould be like this tomorrow.
Not going to be a pleasant dayfor me, you know, but if you've
been drinking in that way, thenyou don't respond quite as
(23:14):
negatively to it.
Valerie Earnshaw (23:15):
That's a great flag.
I didn't even, I hadn't eventhought about the issues around
tolerance.
Like I have mentioned reading abunch of your articles and, you
know, being excited to talk toyou.
And a lot of them start withsome of the stats on like
injuries and health issuesassociated with alcohol use
among college students.
So some of the stuff that youcite is a surprising number of
(23:37):
deaths, like 2000 deaths a yearamong college students, almost
600,000 injuries, almost 700,000assaults every year, and then
almost a hundred thousand sexualassaults among college students
every year.
So there really is like, there'sthese health under these health
issues that are associated withthis heavy drinking that college
(23:58):
students are experiencing.
And especially, you know, whenyou bear in mind that isn't an
injury, like one of the top likerisks of death and health issues
that college students, or peopleof that age span, even like
experience?
Like we really do need to payattention to people injuring
themselves.
Dr. Allecia Reid (24:14):
Yeah, no, that's true.
Right.
Because we often think ofinjuries being a minor.
Like I twisted my ankle whileplaying soccer or something.
Right.
But yeah, absolutely.
There's injury related deaths or, you know, very, they're not
prevalent.
Right.
But that is the, typically theleading cause of death for young
adults or till we get into kindof that older life lifetime.
But yeah.
You know, and again, I've hadconversations with friends in
(24:39):
Europe who sort of say like, oh,it was like college students.
"That's just what they do andthey're going to grow out of
it." But I think that the issuesthey are presenting with, like
they are avoidable, especiallywhen you hear about those deaths
happening on college campusesdue to excessive alcohol use
that are completely avoidable.
Right.
That we, I think we want toimpress upon people.
You know, we typically take aharm reduction approach, right.
(25:01):
So it's not, don't drink, butit's, let's get you to a place
of moderate drinking go out andhave fun, enjoy your time with
your friends, but not to a placewhere you're blacked out
vomiting, um, you know, gettinginto sort of risk of death due
to the amount of alcohol you'reconsuming.
So, um, I, I certainly thinkit's worthwhile.
Uh, and I think, and I AAA, uh,continues to fund that work
(25:22):
because they are concernedabout, you know, risk of deaths
and injuries and all thosethings among college students.
Valerie Earnshaw (25:27):
Well, I remember as a college student,
you know, people who died andlike, you know, people who
there's often a lot ofconstruction on campuses.
And so people who fell intoconstruction sites, I mean, Penn
state has 40,000 students there.
So statistically, I bet likeevery weekend someone was
getting injured.
And I remember, you know, 21stbirthdays are big things for
(25:49):
people to go out and have like21 drinks, which is completely
bananas.
And then, so anyway, while I wasan undergrad, they were trying
to just not have people getalcohol poisoning on their 21st
birthday by being like, Hey, 21drinks today is not a good idea.
Carly Hill (26:05):
We'll need your stomach pumped.
Don't do that.
Valerie Earnshaw (26:07):
Not a good way to bring i n that new year.
Well, I was just g oing t o turnin the direction of some of your
research on whether, and how,peers do influence drinking.
C ause I know that you've hadsome sort of nice papers asking,
you know, do peers i nfluencedrinking?
And then how does that occur ifit does occur?
(26:28):
So I was gonna ask you aboutyour findings in that area.
Dr. Allecia Reid (26:28):
Yeah sure, so, short answer yes, they do
influence drinking.
Uh, and so I think, you know,one paper you might be pointing
to is a recent one where we wereusing Alcohol EDU's national
data set to look at, to whatextent does attending a campus
with more heavy drinkers,increase your risk of becoming a
(26:50):
heavy drinker in the firstsemester of college.
And so Alcohol EDU, you do thiscomputer delivered program that
colleges pay a lot of money, um,to use.
Uh, I think it starts at about$15,000 and sort of goes up
depending on how many studentson your campus are going to take
part.
Um, so they, people are payinglots and lots of money to use
this program.
Um, but what's nice is they willlet researchers also use the
(27:13):
data they're collecting to kindof ask interesting research
questions.
So, um, what we were able to dothere was, you know, and again,
because colleges are paying forit, they usually mandate that
students actually complete theprogram.
Um, so you have pretty much afull look at what every student
in a first year class is doingin terms of their alcohol use,
uh, both before they get tocampus and then after they
(27:34):
arrived there, um, which ispretty nice.
Valerie Earnshaw (27:37):
Yeah that's um , your ideal longitudinal data
that you would want to studythis.
Dr. Allecia Reid (27:41):
Yeah, Exactly.
I mean, it's, it's s hort t ermlongitudinal in the sense t hat
by the time we see them thatsecond time point t hey're a
month or two into their collegecareer.
So, you know, i t'd be nice ifwe could get them sort of
towards the end, but y eah, itis what it is.
I'll take it.
U h, b ut i t w as a d ata s etwith 300,000 students I'm on 2
(28:02):
50 campuses across the u s,which, you know, for those of us
who do research, that's like a gold m ine of
Valerie Earnshaw (28:08):
That's amazing.
That's wow.
Okay.
Dr. Allecia Reid (28:10):
Yeah.
So, so yeah, so short takeaway,there was, it was the case that,
um, students who had beenabstainers or moderate drinkers,
uh, before they arrived oncampus were significantly more
likely to become heavy drinkersif they were attending a campus
with a higher percentage ofheavy drinking students.
Um, so that's the sort of like,yes, does it happen?
(28:34):
Um, and then on the how that's,and that's a great question.
So, you know, we did a couple ofstudies, um, one that was
looking at what we would callsort of be psychological
mediators.
So you're trying to capture, um,is it that I'm around heavy
drinking peers and that'sgetting internalized in my own
attitudes.
So I see heavy drinking as agood thing, or I see the norms
(28:54):
as favoring, heavy drinking, um,or I feel low self-efficacy so
low confidence to kind of resist, um, heavy drinking.
And so, you know, we did findsome evidence that it was
operating through people'sattitudes that, you know, being
in a heavy drinking peer groupled to them having more positive
attitudes towards heavy drinkingthemselves.
And that pathway was there, butnot massive.
(29:16):
Um, at all it was, it was apretty small mediational pathway
through attitudes.
So it was like, it's really not,it's really not it.
Valerie Earnshaw (29:24):
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah,
Dr. Allecia Reid (29:27):
Go ahead.
I'll let you ask a follow-upquestion cause you seem like you
have one.
Valerie Earnshaw (29:29):
Well, I was just going to ask, what do you
think is going on then?
I mean one.
Okay, so just big picture.
One of the interesting thingsabout using some of these data
sets, not all-- because I knowyou also do your own data
collection-- but when you'reanalyzing the data, you know, of
a program that's been conductedor something else, you're sort
of like limited in the questionsthat you can ask by, what are
(29:49):
the things that they decided toask.
So, you know, with that in mind,you may have ideas about why
peers or peer influence mightlead to more drinking behavior,
but haven't been able to test itor maybe you have with other,
you know, data that you've, thatyou've collected.
So if it's not necessarily, youknow, this change of attitudes
(30:11):
or some of these other thingsthat you've tested, do you ever
like, do you have a sense ofwhat it is or what it might be?
Dr. Allecia Reid (30:16):
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question.
And so I think, you know, insome more recent work, which
sort of stems from my Fulbrighttime in the UK, um, we've
shifted to looking at this andthese kinds of experimental
contexts where we bring peopleinto the lab, uh, match them up
with someone who they think isjust another participant, but is
really, um, you know, part ofthe research team and we've
(30:37):
trained them to display eitherhigh or low alcohol consumption
during the interaction.
Um, so it's a fun study.
Uh, they're fun to talk about,fun to run.
Um, time-consuming, but fun.
And so, you know, it sort ofswitched over in there to
looking at mimicry.
So, so trying to get a sense ofif I'm in the presence of
someone engaging in heavydrinking, how often is it the
(30:58):
case that simply after they'vetaken a sip and kind of lifted
the cup to their lips, like, amI mimicking that direct behavior
of, you know, just lifting thecup and taking a sip without
even thinking about it?
Um, and so in that study, we didsee a huge pathway operating
through mimicry that, uh, beingin the presence of a heavy
drinker led to more mimicry thanbeing with the light drinker.
(31:20):
And, um, yeah, and that effecton alcohol consumption was
about, like, 95% operatingthrough mimicry.
I mean, it was massive.
Valerie Earnshaw (31:29):
Gosh, you never see that in our work.
Wow.
Okay.
Dr. Allecia Reid (31:34):
You know, and so that's of course, a small, uh
, lab experimental study, right.
Where, you know, people arecoming in and doing this with
someone they've never metbefore, but I do sort of have
the feeling that, you know, justbeing around other people, we're
not, we're not thinking aboutour attitudes towards alcohol
or, you know, any of thosethings in the moment, we're just
sort of potentially mimickingthat action of this person's
(31:57):
drinking.
So I'm drinking.
Right.
And we also know from socialpsych that mimicry has all sorts
of positive benefits, right?
Like I like the person more, ifthey're mimicking me, we have a
more coordinated flowingconversation if we're mimicking
each other.
And so I think those are justthe sort of natural things that
we do to get along well withothers in the environment.
But, you know, that can lead toheavy drinking, uh, potentially
(32:20):
in these kinds of places wherewe might not want to engage in
heavy drinking.
Valerie Earnshaw (32:24):
This is so super interesting.
I mean, when I read that you haddone your Fulbright and you
went, you were like focusing onmimicry.
I don't think I really, like, Ididn't really understand it,
just reading about it, but thedescription of like, I take a
drink, you take a drink.
Like I'm like, oh, of course.
And it is like, it's like asocial lubricant even over,
like, I notice it for myself alot.
And actually my husband picks upon this for me.
(32:47):
He's like, cause I mimic likewords that people use.
Like I'll pick up on their wordsor, you know, over zoom, you can
see it.
Like if someone's sitting therewith like their fist under their
chin or something, then like theother person on zoom or like
people like use the same bodylanguage.
So I always fire back at thehusband just telling him that I
just like have innately veryevolved social skills and get
(33:09):
people to like me.
But that makes total sense to methen that like, you know, who
knows what the factors are,maybe, to get you to the
drinking situation or to get thefirst drink in your hand-- But
once it's there, like if you'reat a table that yeah, People
(33:29):
would be mimicking that, thatparticular behavior and that the
, and that the drinking couldescalate.
That's really a neat finding.
Yeah.
Dr. Allecia Reid (33:38):
Yeah.
No.
And I think, I mean, we do it inall sorts of contexts.
So, you know, one of the guys Iwork with in England, he's
actually really an eatingresearcher.
Right.
And so these conformity, mimicrystudies thinking about food
consumption and sort of eatingsnack foods when with other
people and sort of that thing.
Right.
And so again, I think it's justone of those natural things we
do to kind of, you know, easesocial situations to help them
(34:01):
go well also because we alreadylike the person.
Right.
And so you mimic people when youlike them.
And it's probably typically okayin the eating context, of
course, unless we're talkingabout eating Snickers bars,
right.
Like eating a whole bunch ofSnickers bars, but you know,
again, in the alcohol context,but I do think it results in
problems and you hit on onething that is absolutely true.
Right.
There's a selection versussocialization issues.
(34:25):
Right.
So selection is like, what getsthe person into this group in
the first place?
Because even at this point inour lives, none of us want to be
in a heavy drinking cohort ofpeople.
It just doesn't feel like thatwe want to be, but maybe in our
earlier years that felt, uh,enticing.
Right.
And so different people aregoing to be drawn to those
environments to begin with.
So I think, yeah, you, youabsolutely hit that nail on the
(34:47):
head, but I think once they'rethere, right.
That those mimicry issues docome into play.
Valerie Earnshaw (34:51):
The other thing that's really interesting
to me about this just with likemy scientist hat on, which is
always on.
So I'm not sure why I pointedthat out, but you know, that the
methods really matter forstudying this, right?
So like some of your work andlike all of us who do health
behavior research is reallybased on like surveys and asking
(35:12):
people about their perceptionsor, you know, you have this
really great work asking peopleabout, I really liked your
accuracy work, where you triedto see like, do people actually
know how much their friends aredrinking and we can come back to
that just in a moment.
But what's really interesting tome is that if you were someone
who just stays like in thesurvey lane or you just use one
(35:35):
methodology and you don't branchout and use other methodologies,
you're not going to find the bigmedium.
Like you're not going to findthe big pathway or the big
reason why peer influence mightbe impacting alcohol use.
And that that's superinteresting to me because a lot
of people will spend their wholecareers, like just doing like
survey data analysis orsomething like that.
Dr. Allecia Reid (35:57):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, I bouncedquite a bit, like, as you've
noted, I've done some with likethe large existing data sets
that are out there and thencollected my own data, um, with
survey correlational approachesand then made this pretty
deliberate shift of like, Iwanted this experimental piece,
um, as a part of the type ofwork I was doing.
Um, and so, you know, reachedout to folks in England to be
(36:18):
able to do that work.
But yeah, I think, I mean, Ithink it's good to come at
things from all differentangles, right.
To sort of shape your thinking,because I think you're right.
If you stay in that sort of-- wecan't measure mimicry, right?
Valerie Earnshaw (36:30):
That's the price!
Dr. Allecia Reid (36:31):
I can't give you a[inaudible] So some of
those are those things that youjust need to get people in a
room and see what's happening, um, in order to kind of the feel
of what's going on in thoseinteractions.
Valerie Earnshaw (36:43):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Carly Hill (36:44):
That's fascinating.
Valerie Earnshaw (36:46):
So you mentioned that you're using the
it's you said it's likealcohol.edu, this, um, that's
like the educationalintervention.
Okay.
So some of your work has alsolooked at like intervention
strategies and what works andCarly, actually, we were
chatting before this and she waslike, she actually talked about
alcoholic.edu.
Carly Hill (37:03):
Like, so we had to take that test and that's what,
you know, I I'm always the onethat's like, okay.
So like, but what can we do?
Like, what do-- you know, that'sjust how my brain works.
And so I was thinking to myselfthough, like, I think, you know,
UDS approach was the alcohol EDUcourse and like all the freshmen
had to take that.
And, you know, I can say withpretty high levels of certainty,
that there was not a moment inmy social circle where any of us
(37:24):
thought,"you know what though,I'm going to put this beer down
because alcohol EDU said" like,and"I should stop after, you
know, three or four." So it'slike, you know, we, we know all
these things.
It's just like, how, what inyour head What's like the ideal,
best case intervention?
Like what's really going tosolve it in this perfect world?
Dr. Allecia Reid (37:43):
Yeah.
I mean, I think you're right.
So I'm not going to bashAlcohol.edu Since they've been
very kind to me, but, Alchol.eduum, they do seem to do better
than sort of no intervention inthat first semester.
But I think by the secondsemester is when you see the,
um, effects really dissipate.
I mean, at least when they'vedone randomized control trials,
(38:04):
it does seem like it has somebenefit over kind of no
intervention at all.
But you know, to me thinkingabout the intervention
strategies that are reallyactually working, I mean, I'm
going to say norms.
It's like what we see in theliterature at least is that, uh,
knowing what the social normsare on your campus, um, having
an accurate representation ofthose is usually effective,
(38:26):
efficacious, to some extent inreducing alcohol use.
Sorry, I'm, I'm thinking justbecause we're talking about
these first year students andthinking about, has norms ever
been applied to incoming firstyear students?
I imagine it has it's often,It's just much more often used
(38:46):
with students who have alreadybeen on campus.
Right.
So they have this view of here'swhat I think is going on in, you
know, at UD and then they findout no people aren't drinking 36
drinks a week.
It's really like nine, you know,that's, that's a pretty common
like,
Valerie Earnshaw (39:02):
That is actually my story.
So I was at Penn State, I hadthis like really overblown idea
of how much people weredrinking, b ecause what you see
is the people who are totallydrunk and outside.
And I was like a third.
I was i n my third or fourthyear.
And they started putting u pthese posters around.
That was like the average Pennstate student has like, think it
(39:23):
was like three drinks a night orsomething.
And I saw that I actually was soblown over by the statistic that
I remember exactly where I was,I was in a bathroom, and I just
was like, it was tremendouslylower than what I thought that
it was.
And so, but you're totallyright.
In that that's kind of backwardsbecause those posters were
(39:48):
definitely a health behaviorintervention to try to change
norms.
But I didn't see it until I wasa third year student.
I did alcohol E DU my firstyear.
And then I, like, I had thisreally inflated perception of
the drinking norms on my campus.
And then third or fourth yearit's being changed.
Dr. Allecia Reid (40:07):
Yeah.
And that's, it's interestingbecause in the past, I don't
know where alcohol EDU is now,but norms were kind of the one
thing that they weren'tincluding in alcohol EDU, so
unusual, all that it was like ofall of the things you could do
with the interventionliterature, it's unusual that
you were missing this likepretty critical piece that the
literature says is the one thingthat seems to be working.
(40:29):
So yeah, so they hadn't, buthopefully they've added it in
more recent years, um, to theirintervention approach.
Um, you know, but there'scertainly other things, right.
I think I've been reallyinterested in how we teach
people about protectivebehavioral strategies they can
use while drinking.
So, you know, if you findyourself in a heavy drinking
situation, right, but maybe youdon't want to be hung over
(40:49):
tomorrow or, you know, you know,you're pushing into a place
where you'd rather not be, um,what are the things that you
could be doing, like alternatingyour alcoholic beverage with
water, or if someone offers youa drink and you don't want to be
the person who says like, no,I'm going to pass on this one.
Right.
You could take it and set itdown somewhere or pretend to
drink it, or, you know, allthose sorts of things that
sometimes when you say tostudents, they're like, I never
(41:12):
thought of that, you know, thatthey can use to manage these
drinking situations if theydon't want to drink quite as
much in that environment.
Valerie Earnshaw (41:20):
Love it.
It's like a harm reductionapproach.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really interesting.
Cause we think a lot about harmreduction in the context of, you
know, heroin, opioid usedisorders, things like that.
Like people are going tocontinue in this behavior and
what is it that we can do tolike minimize the harms
associated or minimize use maybeor something like that.
(41:41):
And so this is a reallyinteresting approach.
Like you're a member of thisfraternity, I don't know you're
going to go to this party.
Like what can we do while we'rethere?
And it's also interesting tointroduce those strategies, like
to younger people, like now Iknow like exactly which friends,
you know, the parties I go tobut who are like sneaking a
(42:02):
seltzer into there, but youknow, like they're drinking a
seltzer in a way that you wouldnever know it because they don't
really want anyone to know whatthey're drinking or not, but
they're kind of like they'redoing some of these behaviors
and kind of a low key way, butthey learnt they'd been drinking
for 15 years.
You know, it's been 15 yearssince they are 20 years that
they've turned 21 and they'vepicked up those strategies along
(42:25):
the way.
Right?
Yeah, yeah,
Dr. Allecia Reid (42:28):
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
I mean, and I've even used someof these strategies in recent
years, right?
I'm like, this is not where Iwant to be tomorrow.
I want to sort of keep myselfaway from that bad place.
I'm going to get a water or likedilute the drink or, you know,
whatever it is.
but still be in the environmentand having fun.
(42:49):
Right.
It's sort of probably reachedthe limit of where I need to go.
Valerie Earnshaw (42:53):
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.
All right.
So I wanted to ask just brieflybefore we let you go off and,
you know, continue with your endof semester stuff about your
Fulbright experience quicklybecause we've alluded to it a
couple of times.
And to be honest, I just have avery romantic idea of what a
(43:14):
Fulbright experience would belike, just hanging out in
another country, like thinkingdeep thoughts and building,
like, building networks orsomething.
So I just want to ask you alittle bit about your experience
and listening to you talk, itsounds like it was pretty great.
I mean, I know you spent a yearin the UK and it sounds like you
(43:34):
were able to like immerseyourself in this mimicry, like,
research and learn a bit aboutthat, but how has the experience
for you and, and is that, isthat perception accurate, was it
very romantic thoughts?
Dr. Allecia Reid (43:48):
Well, that's a good question.
Okay.
So l et's say, u h, theexperience was amazing.
U m, I would highly recommendeveryone if they have the
opportunity go, go abroad on asabbatical, take that time and
sort of get out of the US a nddo something different for a
bit.
I, you know, the thing that'sinteresting about Fulbright is
that at least in the UK, u m,they give you this money.
(44:09):
It was 15,000 pounds, u m, atthe time, and it's not
necessarily designated forresearch, right.
So, you know, and some peoplehave different, u m, sabbatical
situations, I think I was fundedat 80% f rom my college.
So I still felt comfortablewith, u m, you know, living
expenses.
U m, so I was able to use someof that money towards the actual
research, but it they're not,you know, they're actually not
(44:31):
you to do the research.
So I think that's the trickinessof it, of the study wasn't cheap
to run, right?
L ike we had to payparticipants, we had to buy
alcohol and breathalyzer tubes and, you know, all sorts of
things that you have to have onhand to actually do the work.
U m, and I still had some, somemoney f rom my college that
helped to, to do that.
(44:52):
So I think it would depend onhow much deep pondering you're
doing.
The work would depend on likewhat your funding situation is.
Right.
U m, so I think it would justvary, but yeah, no, it was, it
was really amazing.
And I'm still sort ofcollaborating with the guys in
England.
U m, t hey worked with, wesubmitted a grant together pre
pandemic to continue this work,u m, where we were going to be
(45:15):
looking at conformity andmimicry.
And to what extent differentinterventions might reduce the
tendency to engage in thatbehavior, you know, then the
pandemic hit and it was like,yeah, no, no, we're not going to
bring two people into a smallwindowless room and let them
drink together.
Y eah.
Valerie Earnshaw (45:32):
You couldn't get that past your ethics board.
Dr. Allecia Reid (45:34):
Yeah.
I'm hoping to resubmit it, butyou know, l ike when during the
pandemic it just s eemed likethere's no work around for this.
So we're just g oing t o holdoff until, until t hat happens.
U m, yeah.
But you know, I would say it'slike in the moments moving to
another country is not easy,right?
Like there was, there werethese, u h, things that had to
(45:56):
happen.
A nd I took my husband and mytwo small children.
U m, my son was a k indergartenat that time.
So we had to get h im intoschool in the UK, which is
entirely different educationalsystem.
We have, like, it's not like the, just show up and enroll in
school.
It's, there's a wholeapplication process that happens
like way before the start of theschool year.
(46:16):
So that was a nightmare.
I t hink there's just thingsabout moving to another country,
even a n English speakingcountry, where there's just
going to be disconnects.
W here yeah, it was, I wasthinking and thinking about this
l ittle earlier today, i t'slike, t here was definitely the
day where I was standing in thecopy room almost in tears b
ecause I just couldn't, Icouldn't find a stapler.
(46:38):
I couldn't eat, you know, whatever that l ike minor thing
is t hat finally like triggersyou because you're j ust
overwhelmed by this newsituation.
But, u m, all in all though,great experience, wouldn't...
so glad that we did it, wouldn'thave traded it for the world.
Valerie Earnshaw (46:53):
And that's really neat that the
collaboration has continuedbecause my impression is that
that's just part of, you know,the goal of the program is not
thinking deep thoughts andinteresting places, but that the
goal of the program is to likefacilitate international
collaboration and connectionbetween folks internationally.
And so it sounds like this was a, a good investment from
Fulbright because you're stilldoing the work and you still
(47:15):
have these connections.
So that's true.
Absolutely.
Dr. Allecia Reid (47:18):
I feel like they, like, they directly ask
you, like,"how will you fosterthe special relationship
between..." U m, but yes, thatis a big focus is, like, you
know not just this six months ora year that you s pend there,
but how do you keep this going?
And so I took that prettyseriously, but also like wrote
another paper with the groupthat I was in.
(47:39):
U m, and so, yeah, so I think wejust worked really well
together.
I respect them a lot andappreciate like, you know, t
heir, their outlook on things.
So I appreciate working withthem and then other great things
that happened while I was thereis t here's also a, they've now
left the EU, but there was an EUFulbright component where you
could be invited to another EUcountry to give a talk.
(48:01):
U m, and Fulbright would likepay for some of those costs for
you to do that.
And so there were some folks whodid some similar work in the
Netherlands who l ike, thoughtabout going to work with, but
decided that the UK was going tobe a better fit.
U m, so I went out, gave a talkto them and I, you know, have
done conference presentationswith that group, u h, have
another paper in the works withthem.
(48:22):
So a lot of good things, youknow, collaborations and
connections came from that year.
For sure.
Valerie Earnshaw (48:28):
Awesome.
All right.
Well, keep it in the radar thenI'm just like Southern France,
Fulbright sabbatical, you know,decade.
I don't know.
That's that's...
Dr. Allecia Reid (48:42):
I mean, and there was also, you know, there
was, there was lovely, uh,drinking and pubs and, uh,
Carly Hill (48:50):
you have to eat a sausage roll or two, you can't
let them, you can't let them goto waste.
Valerie Earnshaw (48:56):
I man, next time we're at a conference, I'm
worried that we're going to notworried.
I'm excited to go get a drinkwith you maybe, and then just,
we can just watch each othermimic each other.
I know.
We're just going to be,
Dr. Allecia Reid (49:12):
They're going well, if we're mimicking each
other.
So yeah.
Yeah, there we go.
Valerie Earnshaw (49:15):
It means to be like each other.
Okay.
Well, Allecia reading up on yourwork, like to prep for this, but
it's just such a pleasure andsuch a treat because not only do
I think that the topics thatyou're studying are super
interesting and important, butjust like we've been talking
about through this episode, themethods and the data analytics
strategies that you apply toyour work, are, like, are so
(49:36):
smart and interesting.
Like every time I would read apaper, I would be like,"oh wow!"
Like this is a really innovativeand neat approach.
And I think it's hard for peoplewho are like, as prolific as you
are, to each time you're doing astudy, to take that new and
interesting approach.
Like I think people fall intolike, you know, I'm going to do
this type of analysis again andagain and again and again with
(49:58):
the same data set.
So I am just so impressed.
It was such a treat to readabout it and, you know, thank
you so much for coming on todayand talking with us about your
work.
Carly Hill (50:08):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
We really appreciate it.
Dr. Allecia Reid (50:11):
And thanks to both of you for having me.
It's was super fun.
I thought it was going to bescary, but it was fun.
Valerie Earnshaw (50:18):
Thanks to the Stigma and Health Inequities Lab
at the University of Delawarefor their help in the podcast,
including Sarah Lopez, MollyMarine, James Wallace, and
Ashley Roberts.
Carly Hill (50:26):
Thanks to city girl for the music.
As always be sure to check usout on Instagram
@sexdrugsscience, and stay up todate on new episodes by clicking
subscribe.
Valerie Earnshaw (50:36):
Thanks to all of you for listening.
(51:08):
[inaudible].
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