October 25, 2023 • 32 mins
Ready for a mind-expanding trip into the realm of BDSM? You’re about to unlearn some deeply ingrained misconceptions! We're debunking the myth that BDSM is a trauma response, a stereotype rooted in heteronormative and socially normative perspectives. We'll expose how this practice ranges from mild to wild, can be a tool for working through trauma, and is even part of asexual people's lives.
BDSM is more than just kink – it’s a journey of self-discovery, healing, and liberation. It's about restructuring self-concept, repurposing behaviors, and redefining relationships with pain. We discuss how BDSM provides opportunities for role switch, self-exploration, and experimenting with different types of connectedness. We'll shed light on the often overlooked, intimate, and tender connection that BDSM fosters, essential for understanding trust in these specialized relationships.
We also explore how BDSM can be therapeutic, similar to meditation, mindfulness, and relaxation. It can make one feel more attuned and alive, similar to the runner’s high. You’ll learn about the concept of "subspace," an altered state of consciousness achieved through BDSM that some practitioners describe as a heightened state of eroticism. We highlight the role of BDSM in identity exploration, negotiating power dynamics, developing trust and communication skills, and creating a safe space for exploration and discovery. Get ready for a fresh, inclusive perspective on sex education and BDSM.
Follow us on social @sexeddebunked or send us a message at sexeddebunked@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christine (00:03):
Hi, this is Sex Ed Debunked, a cross-generational
podcast hosted bymother-daughter duo, christine
and.
Shannon (00:09):
Shannon Curley.
Every episode we tackle a newmyth about sex, sexuality and
pleasure, and use research andexpert insights to debunk
stereotypes and misinformationfrom the bedroom and beyond.
In 2022,.
We won the American Associationof Sexuality Educators,
counselors and Therapists Awardfor Best Podcast and also
managed to not totally freak outour family and friends along
the way.
Christine (00:29):
We believe in healthy , sex-positive, pleasure-focused
sex education, backed by realresearch and real experience.
Shannon (00:34):
Follow us on Instagram, facebook or Twitter at Sex Ed
Debunked or email us atSexEdDeBunked at gmailcom to
share your sex miseducationtales and the myths you'd like
to hear us debunk.
Thanks for listening.
Hi, this is Sex.
Ed Debunked across-generational podcast about
sexual health, sex positivityand the sheer number of acronyms
in the sex and gender world.
It's crazy.
It's like being in corporate.
(00:55):
I think, goodness, I'm not incorporate anymore.
It's wild.
Sometimes I just throw outacronyms that don't mean
anything, just to see if peoplecatch me and they just nod.
I'm like that wasn't real.
I said an N-P-W and they justsaid okay, and I'm like an N-P-W
is nothing.
It's nothing.
Christine (01:11):
And you said yes, well, part of the problem is
people don't know if they'recurrent and like, oh my gosh,
have I missed something?
So maybe that's not the kindestthing, shannon.
Shannon (01:21):
It is the kindest thing , because the best way to learn
is to ask questions.
Christine (01:24):
True enough.
So, anyway, that leads intothis week's episode, where we're
talking about BDSM, bondage anddiscipline, domination,
submission, sadism and masochism, Just in time for October,
national Kick Month.
Shannon (01:42):
Wow, didn't know it had its own month.
Also, what a complicatedacronym, because you, for sure,
just said six different wordsfor four letters.
Christine (01:50):
Yes, so perhaps I should slow down and we go over
it one more time, even thoughwe've discussed BDSM on several
other podcast episodes.
Let's just have a refresher soyou all don't have to go back
and listen to those episodesagain.
Shannon (02:05):
That would be the worst , if you had to go back and
listen to some of our episodes.
Christine (02:09):
Well, you know, while you're listening to this one,
you don't want to have to pauseand go back.
Shannon (02:14):
All right, so give us the definition, give us the
placeholder letters there.
Christine (02:19):
Okay, bdsm, b, bondage, which can also be
restraining.
D, which is dominance ordomination.
Sometimes the D can be referredto as a DOM or a top.
Now, sometimes the BDSM the Sis a little S, and when it's a
(02:40):
little S it means submission,which is letting go of control,
and that is being a sub or abottom, and sometimes the S is a
big S, which means you're intospecifically sadism and
inflicting pain, and then the Mis masochism and receiving pain.
(03:02):
So the letters can overlap and,importantly, they don't always
mean it's a sexual experience,although often it's an erotic
experience.
Shannon (03:14):
Give our audience a quick refresher on the
difference between sexualexperience and erotic experience
.
Christine (03:21):
Well, in the context of BDSM and Kink practitioners,
there is not an expectation thatwhat is happening is going to
lead to some type of genitalcontact or sexual activity.
Sometimes, and in many cases,one activity doesn't lead to the
(03:42):
other.
So, for example, if someone isengaging in bondage and is being
tied up as part of roleplay, itdoesn't necessarily mean at the
end, when the person is untied,they are going to engage in a
sexual experience with the topor otherwise known as the rigor.
So in the community there's noexpectation that it's going to
(04:05):
be sexual.
Shannon (04:07):
It's interesting because I don't know if you knew
this actually, mom, but it'sasexual asexuality awareness
week this week, and not that wewill delve into this whole
separate myth, but it isinteresting because asexual
people who identify as asexualcan and do participate in BDSM,
which just goes to show you thatyou can participate in BDSM
without being involved in asexual act.
(04:27):
Excellent point, the more youknow.
In a prior episode, we talkedabout the myth that BDSM is all
about sex and pain, and wedebunked that myth and talked
about all the different elementsand how control and dominance
and power dynamics all play in.
But that doesn't necessarilymean that it is painful.
And then, in myth 23, wediscussed the myth that BDSM is
(04:50):
only for deviance, and we talkedabout that with Rin Fufer, who
also gave us a lot of otherreally interesting information
about her experience in sex workand sex journalism.
But we are returning to thetopic of BDSM today, not because
we're obsessed with it, butbecause there's a lot to be
understood about BDSM.
And again, it is kink month, soit feels appropriate.
(05:13):
But the myth that we'retackling today is the myth that
BDSM is a trauma response, andwhere this myth comes from is
the idea that people seek outbondage and submission and power
dynamics and kink, in a word,because they have been sexually
traumatized or are otherwisesexually dysfunctional.
So this is kind of that ideathat this myth that comes from
(05:36):
very heteronormative but alsojust sort of socially normative
perspectives that are notcorrect, but the idea that well,
if you're into BDSM then it'sbecause you're into weird stuff
or you got something weird goingon or there's something weird
about you.
And we're here to debunk thatmyth because, believe it or not,
a lot of people participate ina lot of BDSM at various ranges.
(05:58):
But also there's a lot ofresearch that supports that BDSM
is not just not a traumaresponse but in fact can help
work through trauma.
Christine (06:07):
Yes, shannon, and I just want to point out like this
is kind of a particularly likepainful myth for people in the
BDSM kink community because, aswe've mentioned, there's already
a stigmatization that it'ssomehow deviant, and now you're
piling on to say, well, on topof that, you're all a bunch of
damaged people, and so it iscritically important, in my
(06:29):
opinion, that we debunk thismyth separately, even though
we've talked about BDSM and kinkbefore, because, as you said,
there is an abundance researchthat suggests that BDSM kink is
actually can be, for a lot ofpeople, a path to healing.
But, as a general matter, Iwant to point out the research
(06:49):
that's consistent, that showsthere are absolutely no greater
percentage of people in the kinkcommunity who have experienced
trauma or abuse when compared tothe general population and, for
that matter, no higherincidence of depression, anxiety
(07:11):
, ptsd, personality disorders.
So, basically, the BDSMcommunity and kink community is
really no different from thepopulation at large.
Shannon (07:22):
In other words, they're no more messed up than you are.
Vanilla people Come on.
Christine (07:27):
Well said Shannon.
So let's talk a little bitabout the recent research that
has actually found thatparticipating in BDSM kink can
actually be a healing experiencefor some people who have
experienced either sexual traumaor other abuse, especially in
childhood.
Shannon (07:48):
Yeah, and just a reminder if this is a topic of
interest to folks, rinne againin episode or in myth number 23,
talked about her personalexperience with BDSM and power
dynamics and how she used thatto heal from her own sexual
trauma.
So if you are interested in apersonal story about that, myth
number 23,.
But we are talking about theresearch side of things in this
(08:09):
episode.
So there was a study publishedthis year, 2023, in the sexual
and relationship therapy journal.
It was a qualitative study,which we talk about all the time
.
But what I found the mostinteresting from this study and
I'll let you, dr, go into moreof the details here but what I
found interesting was that frominterviewing 20 participants
(08:30):
about BDSM and about theirexperience with BDSM, there were
six themes that were kind ofpulled out for what BDSM is used
for, what the practice of BDSMcan do.
And so those six themes wereBDSM in the cultural context of
healing, bdsm as a restructuringof the self concept
(08:51):
relationally liberation throughBDSM dynamics so things like
tops and bottoms and powerdynamics creating liberation for
BDSM as a reclamation of power.
Five as BDSM repurposingbehaviors and six BDSM
redefining relationships withpain.
So kind of just interesting toeven just walk through that list
(09:13):
of six, because everything inthat is obviously really
positively connotated.
For the most part it's allabout reclamation and
repositioning and understandinga new perspective, not just
about, obviously, sex andintimacy and erotic
relationships, but all aboutthose relationships with
yourself.
Christine (09:31):
Well, and what's really particularly interesting,
even though this is a studywith a relatively small sample,
the sample was taken from fivedifferent countries, so the
participants came from fivedifferent countries and these
themes came from their storiesand their narratives and their
interviews.
So the researchers called thesethemes that were pretty
(09:52):
consistent across a majority ofthe people they were interviewed
.
So let's talk specificallyabout what each of these themes
mean in terms of the potentialof BDSM kink in connection with
different types of trauma.
So the first it was framed as acultural context of healing and
(10:16):
under this category,individuals talked about the
fact that the norms around BDSMin terms of having a highly
consensual culture, having anunderstanding that these
activities don't have to lead tosex those changing norms
(10:36):
actually allowed them, allowedthese participants to reframe
what kink means and what traumameans.
And, importantly, a lot of theparticipants in this study were
also working with kink awaretherapists at the time.
So that helped them reframetheir experiences using BDS
(10:57):
norms of saying, hey, you knowwhat?
This is a different way to goabout structuring erotic play
and erotic relationships.
Shannon (11:06):
And then the second one was the restructuring, the self
concept, and this one'sinteresting to me because I
think there's all differentlevels of this right like what
your self concept is.
So it's something as much assexual self-esteem and new
self-knowledge and reclaimingyour confidence.
But I've even heard folks talkabout this in the context of in
my day-to-day life, in my wakinglife, I'm so in control and I'm
(11:29):
such a powerful person that inBDSM I love being a sub, because
it lets me completely embodythis other part of myself that I
don't get to live out in myday-to-day life.
And so that's where I thinkthis is an interesting one with
the whole restructuring selfconcept, because one way or
another, if your self concept isthat you're always in power or
your self concept is that you'rea little bit more subordinate
(11:49):
in your daily life, there's anopportunity to really switch
that role playing, you know,both within yourself and with a
partner, through BDSM, which isjust a really interesting,
striking balance.
Christine (11:59):
It is, it's striking.
Is that a pun intended?
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know if it's tied up inthe metaphors, but Well and I
think the other layer of that iswhat you just mentioned is the
role playing aspect.
So the role playing allowsindividuals to experiment with
who they are and experiment within a gradual way of how to
(12:22):
unravel how they might have beenimpacted by other past negative
experiences.
So it allows individuals tostep into their power because
it's starting as role play, andas role play, you can you know
for lack of a better term kindof fake it till you make it and
explore these areas in a safeway.
(12:42):
Yeah, all right.
That's the one thing that youcan't fake Well but it does
allow you to play with differentroles and to explore yourself
in a different way, kind ofoutside the box.
So that is kind of the part ofthe whole dynamics of BDSM and
(13:04):
role play and power exchange isit lets you play with things
that might be outside of yourordinary lived experience.
Shannon (13:13):
And then that leads to the third sort of theme that was
pulled out of this research,which was liberation through
relationships, so similar to theidea of self-concept, except
now bringing a relationaldynamic into it.
Christine (13:27):
And that is an important distinction is that
now these individuals are not,are talking about learning a
different kind of connectedness.
Shannon (13:36):
Yeah, and learning to be seen and valued in different
ways as well by those intimatepartners.
You know, I think a submith ofBDSM and of Kink is again, and
we talked about it being aboutpain, sex and pain being the
BDSM myth.
But there's also with bondageand with tying up and with
(13:56):
blindfolding and things likethat, there's an intimacy to it
that I think will overlook.
Where it's like you're beinggentle, there's a gentleness and
of course that ranges too.
But there is so muchopportunity in BDSM to be gentle
and to be intimate and to becareful and thoughtful and I
think that gets overlooked a lot.
But when we look at this thirdtheme of relational dynamics
(14:19):
with others, of liberation andrelationships, that's the flip
side.
It's not just pain and power,it's also tenderness.
Christine (14:27):
Well, and the tenderness and the vulnerability
and the openness comes fromthis really enhanced need for
trust in a BDSM relationship,and it doesn't have to be.
It doesn't have to be arelationship like we think of it
in terms of a romanticrelationship.
Instead, it's more like what'smy relationship between the Dom
(14:48):
and the sub, and in order for asub to give consent, a
submissive to give consent, thatrequires such a high degree of
trust and that's part of the waythese types of relationships
can be liberating, because,because BDSM has such strong
consent guidelines and boundaryguidelines, you can learn
(15:11):
liberation of a new relationshipof trust that allows you to be
more vulnerable and more open tonew experiences that maybe you
couldn't explore in the quote.
Unquote vanilla world.
Shannon (15:25):
Which leads to that fourth theme, which is
reclaiming power.
So very similar, but settingand maintaining personal
boundaries is a reclamation ofpower.
So being able to say no in thatcontext, that context Well, and
setting and maintaining andthat's another main myth too is
that there's no consent in BDSM.
There is so much consent inBDSM because of that, because
(15:47):
setting boundaries andmaintaining personal boundaries
is such a valued part, and asacred part even, of the BDSM
relationship.
Christine (15:59):
Really it is, and on top of that, much like when we
talked way, way back in thebeginning, we talked about
consent and we talked aboutfries.
Even in the BDSM world, you arefree to revoke consent and you
are free to have boundaries thatare yellow or red when you come
across something that you'reuncomfortable in at the moment.
(16:22):
So even if you are in the roleof a submissive and you have
given consent to the dominantperson, you can still revoke
that consent, even in the middleof a scene, and that is really
part of what reclaiming power isabout.
Some of the individuals whotalked about that actually said
(16:43):
and this was a quote from thestudy that being powerless is
powerful.
That's a really kind of I don'tknow.
A very deep theme, I think, isbeing able to be so in such a
space that you can give up allyour power transcends a lot of
(17:05):
what we come to understand ineveryday life in terms of giving
up power.
You don't usually see it as apositive, but the participants
in this study saw it as a way totransition into a new sense of
their own power, which was very,very cool.
Shannon (17:20):
Yeah, and I think just this is an important place to
pause and remind everyone againabout what the myth of this
episode is.
The myth is that BDSM is atrauma response, but what the
research really supports is thatit helps heal trauma.
So, as we're talking throughthese themes, it makes sense
that being powerless is powerful.
Imagine, right In the contextof healing from trauma, to be
(17:41):
able to feel like you don't haveto be in utter control and you
can still trust yourself andfeel trusted and in control when
you're out of control.
It actually makes a ton ofsense, when you think about it
in the context of this myth thatwe're talking about today, that
if you can use BDSM to coachyourself through feelings that
maybe once were triggering toyou and instead use them as a
(18:04):
reclamation of control, thatmakes sense.
And so that leads to the fifththeme, which is repurposing
behaviors.
And so that's engaging in actsthat maybe have harmed someone
in the past.
And you can think of that asmaybe role playing, where you
role place through maybe a scarysituation or a traumatic
situation.
And how do you work throughthat?
(18:25):
Even thinking about it with avery easy example, but maybe
something traumatic occurred inthe dark and you can really have
them to be blindfolded and thatmight take a while to work
through that and you may have towork through your setting of
boundaries constantly.
Where I'm blindfolded for fiveseconds, I'm done stop and it's
stopped and respected.
But next time you can do that.
Christine (18:45):
But that's a good point.
Shannon is under this theme.
It's considered very gradual, agreat gradual, prolonged
exposure, which is reallysimilar to any form of like
exposure therapy in psychology,where you have something that
you're traumatized with oryou're afraid of and the idea is
to to slowly become acclimatedto that so you no longer have
(19:10):
the trauma response.
The flip side of that is anumber of participants talked
about re-centering theirpleasure.
So if you talk about, likedarkness and the blindfold your
example, to take your example,shannon well, instead of being
when you're blindfolded, you canhave the opportunity to just
focus on your own pleasure andyour own body rather than
(19:33):
focusing on fear.
And so, once again, to quotefrom one of the participants in
the study, focusing on thepleasure in the moment created a
better reality, which is alsopretty, pretty stunning that
that there's such potential inthe BDSM kink space to alter
reality and for some that's areally powerful experience.
Shannon (19:56):
Well, and I think this is a good place to remind people
that they're, you know, atherapist who is kink aware is
really important.
If someone is using BDSM to workthrough trauma, having a
therapist who understands whatparticular trauma they're trying
to work through is veryimportant and, at a minimum,
having a partner who understandswhat they're trying to work
(20:16):
through in that BDSM context.
Because, you know, one of themore extreme examples of role
play with BDSM or healingthrough trauma would be you know
power dynamics right.
If you are a victim of sexualassault or sexual abuse,
something you might try to workthrough is asserting power in a
situation where there is someonewho is in a more natural
position of privilege and you'reworking through setting
(20:37):
boundaries or you're workingthrough inverting that power
structure so that you're incontrol.
Well, that's all well and goodon paper, but you are still a
person processing trauma.
So having a partner whounderstands the trauma you are
still going through to processand doesn't immediately throw
you in the deep end, and alsopairing that with a kink aware
therapist, is just reallyimportant.
That you know you don't listento this and think I'm going to
(20:58):
heal it, I'm going to go do someBDSM and I'm going to be great
tomorrow.
As with any form of therapy, itis important to be mindful of
the way that your psychologyworks with your body.
Christine (21:09):
And it's important to know too, Shannon, there and we
can post this when we post thepodcast there are a lot of kink
aware practitioners out thereand there are resources where to
find them.
You know the hours in Pawtucket.
Rhode Island has resources, butmore and more counselors are
actually becoming aware of thispotentiality.
(21:30):
So I would suggest find theright therapist, as we've talked
about in other podcasts.
Finding the right therapist iscrucial, but I want to add, they
are out there.
In fact, I have some friendswho are in that space so, and
they are eager to practice inthat space in order to find this
(21:52):
new, the kind of a new tool interms of helping people through
trauma to a more positivesexuality for themselves.
So that leads us to the lastsub theme, right, Shannon?
Shannon (22:06):
Yup Sub theme.
Christine (22:09):
Okay, which is redefining pain.
So there are people in the BDSMkink space who actually do
contrary to what some may sayactually do find the pain
experience very transcendent.
So for this group ofparticipants in this study, they
(22:29):
found that, in order, enduringthe painful experience actually
allowed them to transcend thosememories and allowed them to
reframe the experience of painas something that was more
positive.
Shannon (22:43):
And we have another research study where we'll talk
a little bit more about that andsome of the findings from that.
But I think you know just again, it's important to emphasize
here that even though thisresearch happens to show a
relationship between healingfrom trauma, it doesn't mean
that people who participate inBDSM are more likely to have
(23:04):
experienced trauma.
Christine (23:05):
No, exactly the opposite.
Bdsm kink community, vanillacommunity the numbers are the
same.
We, as humans, have experiencedtrauma and you know, there is
no research that I've been ableto find and I have looked
through a fair amount of it toshow that there's any higher
prevalence in the BDSM kinkcommunity of any.
(23:27):
You know pathology, contrary tothe myth.
So, which leads us to the nextresearch, because, although this
study involved a smallqualitative sample, the findings
of this study are actually inline with other research about
potential benefits of BDSM kinkpractices.
So I'm going to refer to astudy from 2020 that was
(23:51):
published in the Journal of SexResearch, and this one looked at
testimonials of 227practitioners about potential
benefits of BDSM.
Shannon (24:06):
Yes, the first one is sort of meditation, mindfulness
and relaxation.
So that's the potential benefitis that you have to be present
and focused in the BDSM dynamic.
You can't.
You know, it's pretty difficultto not be tuned in to that
experience.
Christine (24:26):
Well, and that's part of the practice of BDSM kink is
part of it, quite honestly, islearning how to be present and
focused.
So it's in line with kind ofthe vanilla world of meditation
and mindfulness, and theexperiences of BDSM
practitioners are quite similarto those people who are like
(24:46):
yogis or meditating and I thinkit leads to the same type of
benefits, which is basicallylearning how to be more focused
in the rest of your life andlearning how to be more present
in the rest of your life.
Shannon (25:00):
And again it's that idea that we talked about under
that fifth theme of repurposingbehaviors, of centering your
pleasure.
How often in meditation andmindfulness practices do you
hear find your center, centeryourself?
Christine (25:12):
Exactly Similar theme we have going on Like return to
your breathing right.
Shannon (25:18):
Well, maybe that hitting is really fast paced and
escalating by the second, whoknows?
Christine (25:24):
Or it might simply be return to your skin, return to
your body, return to the feelingof the impact of, you know, of
a flog or a whip or whateveryour, your, your kink is in the
moment, which actually leads toa second potential benefit,
reported by a fair amount ofpractitioners, which this this
(25:45):
idea of an altered state ofconsciousness, which in the
community is often referred toas subspace, and that is almost
like, if you're so in the momentand you're so focused, you can
actually, kind of like, leaveyour body, for lack of a better
term, the the participants inthe study who talked about the
(26:07):
experience referred to it as atrance and referred to it as
like really being outside ofthemselves, which is a very
interesting experience, I wouldimagine.
Shannon (26:20):
Yeah, it's funny.
I think that Rin mentioned thatwhen we interviewed her and I
don't remember if we included iton the episode or not, but
maybe I'll do a little diggingand find out if we can get that
sound bite, because Rin didmention that and that was part
of her experience with usingBDSM as a trauma.
Healing experience was beingable to separate herself and
just enjoy pleasure in thatsubspace.
Christine (26:42):
Then the last one that came up in this study,
which was contrary to what theresearchers expected, was that
for some participants, pain isactually enjoyed for its own
benefit.
They asked a lot of questionsof these individuals and found
that a fair amount of themactually just had a very high
(27:04):
pain tolerance to begin with.
But the experience that theydiscussed was like a runner's
high, when you reach that pointnot that I've done it all that
much, but you reach that pointwhere it's painful and then you
push through the pain and youstart feeling euphoric.
Well, the idea of the pain inthe BDSM context is really
(27:29):
similar, because the endorphinsboth are analgesic, which means
they ease pain, and euphoric,which means it's energizing and
it can put you on a high.
So that was a really curiousand unexpected finding, but I
think it really reinforces theidea that BDSM is not something
(27:51):
that's a result of sexualdysfunction.
It's actually a way to practicea higher state of eroticism.
Really.
Shannon (28:00):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I could see that some of ourlisteners might hear that and
say okay, so you should want tobe in pain.
No, no, no, this is a subset ofthe study.
Christine (28:11):
It was an unexpected finding because most
practitioners talk about themeditation aspect and the
trans-like aspect and the otherbenefits, like the fun of being
able to roleplay and, like youmentioned earlier, shannon, the
idea of, hey, I'm in control ofeverything in my real life, it's
(28:31):
so good to get up control, or Iam my real life, I have no
control, and so it's so fun tobe dominant.
And there are individuals inthe community that are called
switches that alternate,depending on context, what they
want to do.
So all of those are differentaspects of the experience, and
(28:53):
the idea that some individualsactually enjoy the pain aspect
is just one more facet of theBDSM kank experience.
Shannon (29:02):
It's funny.
I was talking to a friend ofmine.
The podcast comes up, naturally, in conversation quite a bit
and I've found and this is whywe do the show but when someone
finds out that you're willing totalk about sex, they sure will
talk about sex with you.
And so I was talking to afriend of mine and they said you
know, I love being tied up.
And I was like cool.
And they said I love being tiedup by my husband.
(29:24):
And I said cool.
And they said I love being tiedup by my husband because I
spend all of my time running thehousehold and having to ask him
to do things and like remindinghim of stuff and having to tell
him to pick up his towels anddo this.
And that's just like.
I just love being tied up andrestrained because I feel like
all the time I'm the one tellinghim what to do.
I'm like you know I go out on alimb and say your husband
(29:48):
probably likes it for similarreasons.
Very perceptive BDSM.
Again, it gets this very thisbad rep for being so extreme or
being deviant or being all aboutsex and pain, and we've
debunked all those myths at thispoint.
But the thing is too that muchlike pretty much everything we
talk about in the world ofsexuality and gender.
(30:09):
It's a spectrum, it is a rangeand you can play with it as much
as you'd like and we are not ago do BDSM podcast, but
certainly, if you want toconsider adding it to your all a
cart menu of sexual experience,as we have shown, there can be
benefits for the individual andfor couples and for not couples
and for anyone who's interestedin playing around, you might
(30:31):
find something you like.
Christine (30:32):
Well said, Shannon.
So the myth today was thatpracticing BDSM is a form of a
trauma response.
In fact, for many individualswho practice BDSM kink, engaging
in these activities in atrusting, highly consensual,
conscious environment has been ahealing and transformative
experience for persons toreclaim their sexuality and
(30:54):
sexual agency.
Shannon (30:57):
So that, my friends, is another myth Put to bed.
Thanks so much for tuning in toSex Ed Debunked.
We will be back again next weekwith another study session.
You won't want to miss it.
It is very specific to NovemberBonus points, if you can guess
what it's about.
We hope that everyone enjoysand acknowledges that this week
(31:20):
is asexuality awareness week andthis month, october, is kink
awareness month.
And again, as usual, if you'vegot any myths you'd like us to
debunk, to debunk topics you'dlike us to cover or basically
anything else, send us a messageat sexeddebunkedgmailcom and
follow us on all the socials atSex Ed Debunked.
Christine (31:40):
Take care everyone.
Happy Halloween Whoo.
Thanks for tuning in for thisweek's episode of Sex Ed
Debunked During the course ofour podcast.
We have limited time together,which means that, unfortunately,
many identities, groups andmovements may not be represented
(32:03):
each week.
The field of sexuality andgender orientations, identities
and behaviors are changing andgrowing rapidly, and we remain
committed to being as inclusiveas possible.
Shannon (32:14):
Please remember that all of us, including us, are
learning in this area and mayoccasionally slip up.
We ask that we all continue tobe kind to one another so that
we can create a truly inclusiveand accepting environment.
As always, if you have anyquestions or comments, please
feel free to reach out to us atSex Ed Debunked on Instagram,
facebook and Twitter.
Christine (32:33):
Sex Ed Debunked is produced by Trailblaze Media in
Providence, Rhode Island.
Our sound producer is EzraWinters, with production
assistance from Shea Winentree.
Hi, this is Sex Ed Debunked, a cross-generational
podcast hosted bymother-daughter duo, christine
and.
Shannon (00:09):
Shannon Curley.
Every episode we tackle a newmyth about sex, sexuality and
pleasure, and use research andexpert insights to debunk
stereotypes and misinformationfrom the bedroom and beyond.
In 2022,.
We won the American Associationof Sexuality Educators,
counselors and Therapists Awardfor Best Podcast and also
managed to not totally freak outour family and friends along
the way.
Christine (00:29):
We believe in healthy , sex-positive, pleasure-focused
sex education, backed by realresearch and real experience.
Shannon (00:34):
Follow us on Instagram, facebook or Twitter at Sex Ed
Debunked or email us atSexEdDeBunked at gmailcom to
share your sex miseducationtales and the myths you'd like
to hear us debunk.
Thanks for listening.
Hi, this is Sex.
Ed Debunked across-generational podcast about
sexual health, sex positivityand the sheer number of acronyms
in the sex and gender world.
It's crazy.
It's like being in corporate.
(00:55):
I think, goodness, I'm not incorporate anymore.
It's wild.
Sometimes I just throw outacronyms that don't mean
anything, just to see if peoplecatch me and they just nod.
I'm like that wasn't real.
I said an N-P-W and they justsaid okay, and I'm like an N-P-W
is nothing.
It's nothing.
Christine (01:11):
And you said yes, well, part of the problem is
people don't know if they'recurrent and like, oh my gosh,
have I missed something?
So maybe that's not the kindestthing, shannon.
Shannon (01:21):
It is the kindest thing , because the best way to learn
is to ask questions.
Christine (01:24):
True enough.
So, anyway, that leads intothis week's episode, where we're
talking about BDSM, bondage anddiscipline, domination,
submission, sadism and masochism, Just in time for October,
national Kick Month.
Shannon (01:42):
Wow, didn't know it had its own month.
Also, what a complicatedacronym, because you, for sure,
just said six different wordsfor four letters.
Christine (01:50):
Yes, so perhaps I should slow down and we go over
it one more time, even thoughwe've discussed BDSM on several
other podcast episodes.
Let's just have a refresher soyou all don't have to go back
and listen to those episodesagain.
Shannon (02:05):
That would be the worst , if you had to go back and
listen to some of our episodes.
Christine (02:09):
Well, you know, while you're listening to this one,
you don't want to have to pauseand go back.
Shannon (02:14):
All right, so give us the definition, give us the
placeholder letters there.
Christine (02:19):
Okay, bdsm, b, bondage, which can also be
restraining.
D, which is dominance ordomination.
Sometimes the D can be referredto as a DOM or a top.
Now, sometimes the BDSM the Sis a little S, and when it's a
(02:40):
little S it means submission,which is letting go of control,
and that is being a sub or abottom, and sometimes the S is a
big S, which means you're intospecifically sadism and
inflicting pain, and then the Mis masochism and receiving pain.
(03:02):
So the letters can overlap and,importantly, they don't always
mean it's a sexual experience,although often it's an erotic
experience.
Shannon (03:14):
Give our audience a quick refresher on the
difference between sexualexperience and erotic experience
.
Christine (03:21):
Well, in the context of BDSM and Kink practitioners,
there is not an expectation thatwhat is happening is going to
lead to some type of genitalcontact or sexual activity.
Sometimes, and in many cases,one activity doesn't lead to the
(03:42):
other.
So, for example, if someone isengaging in bondage and is being
tied up as part of roleplay, itdoesn't necessarily mean at the
end, when the person is untied,they are going to engage in a
sexual experience with the topor otherwise known as the rigor.
So in the community there's noexpectation that it's going to
(04:05):
be sexual.
Shannon (04:07):
It's interesting because I don't know if you knew
this actually, mom, but it'sasexual asexuality awareness
week this week, and not that wewill delve into this whole
separate myth, but it isinteresting because asexual
people who identify as asexualcan and do participate in BDSM,
which just goes to show you thatyou can participate in BDSM
without being involved in asexual act.
(04:27):
Excellent point, the more youknow.
In a prior episode, we talkedabout the myth that BDSM is all
about sex and pain, and wedebunked that myth and talked
about all the different elementsand how control and dominance
and power dynamics all play in.
But that doesn't necessarilymean that it is painful.
And then, in myth 23, wediscussed the myth that BDSM is
(04:50):
only for deviance, and we talkedabout that with Rin Fufer, who
also gave us a lot of otherreally interesting information
about her experience in sex workand sex journalism.
But we are returning to thetopic of BDSM today, not because
we're obsessed with it, butbecause there's a lot to be
understood about BDSM.
And again, it is kink month, soit feels appropriate.
(05:13):
But the myth that we'retackling today is the myth that
BDSM is a trauma response, andwhere this myth comes from is
the idea that people seek outbondage and submission and power
dynamics and kink, in a word,because they have been sexually
traumatized or are otherwisesexually dysfunctional.
So this is kind of that ideathat this myth that comes from
(05:36):
very heteronormative but alsojust sort of socially normative
perspectives that are notcorrect, but the idea that well,
if you're into BDSM then it'sbecause you're into weird stuff
or you got something weird goingon or there's something weird
about you.
And we're here to debunk thatmyth because, believe it or not,
a lot of people participate ina lot of BDSM at various ranges.
(05:58):
But also there's a lot ofresearch that supports that BDSM
is not just not a traumaresponse but in fact can help
work through trauma.
Christine (06:07):
Yes, shannon, and I just want to point out like this
is kind of a particularly likepainful myth for people in the
BDSM kink community because, aswe've mentioned, there's already
a stigmatization that it'ssomehow deviant, and now you're
piling on to say, well, on topof that, you're all a bunch of
damaged people, and so it iscritically important, in my
(06:29):
opinion, that we debunk thismyth separately, even though
we've talked about BDSM and kinkbefore, because, as you said,
there is an abundance researchthat suggests that BDSM kink is
actually can be, for a lot ofpeople, a path to healing.
But, as a general matter, Iwant to point out the research
(06:49):
that's consistent, that showsthere are absolutely no greater
percentage of people in the kinkcommunity who have experienced
trauma or abuse when compared tothe general population and, for
that matter, no higherincidence of depression, anxiety
(07:11):
, ptsd, personality disorders.
So, basically, the BDSMcommunity and kink community is
really no different from thepopulation at large.
Shannon (07:22):
In other words, they're no more messed up than you are.
Vanilla people Come on.
Christine (07:27):
Well said Shannon.
So let's talk a little bitabout the recent research that
has actually found thatparticipating in BDSM kink can
actually be a healing experiencefor some people who have
experienced either sexual traumaor other abuse, especially in
childhood.
Shannon (07:48):
Yeah, and just a reminder if this is a topic of
interest to folks, rinne againin episode or in myth number 23,
talked about her personalexperience with BDSM and power
dynamics and how she used thatto heal from her own sexual
trauma.
So if you are interested in apersonal story about that, myth
number 23,.
But we are talking about theresearch side of things in this
(08:09):
episode.
So there was a study publishedthis year, 2023, in the sexual
and relationship therapy journal.
It was a qualitative study,which we talk about all the time
.
But what I found the mostinteresting from this study and
I'll let you, dr, go into moreof the details here but what I
found interesting was that frominterviewing 20 participants
(08:30):
about BDSM and about theirexperience with BDSM, there were
six themes that were kind ofpulled out for what BDSM is used
for, what the practice of BDSMcan do.
And so those six themes wereBDSM in the cultural context of
healing, bdsm as a restructuringof the self concept
(08:51):
relationally liberation throughBDSM dynamics so things like
tops and bottoms and powerdynamics creating liberation for
BDSM as a reclamation of power.
Five as BDSM repurposingbehaviors and six BDSM
redefining relationships withpain.
So kind of just interesting toeven just walk through that list
(09:13):
of six, because everything inthat is obviously really
positively connotated.
For the most part it's allabout reclamation and
repositioning and understandinga new perspective, not just
about, obviously, sex andintimacy and erotic
relationships, but all aboutthose relationships with
yourself.
Christine (09:31):
Well, and what's really particularly interesting,
even though this is a studywith a relatively small sample,
the sample was taken from fivedifferent countries, so the
participants came from fivedifferent countries and these
themes came from their storiesand their narratives and their
interviews.
So the researchers called thesethemes that were pretty
(09:52):
consistent across a majority ofthe people they were interviewed
.
So let's talk specificallyabout what each of these themes
mean in terms of the potentialof BDSM kink in connection with
different types of trauma.
So the first it was framed as acultural context of healing and
(10:16):
under this category,individuals talked about the
fact that the norms around BDSMin terms of having a highly
consensual culture, having anunderstanding that these
activities don't have to lead tosex those changing norms
(10:36):
actually allowed them, allowedthese participants to reframe
what kink means and what traumameans.
And, importantly, a lot of theparticipants in this study were
also working with kink awaretherapists at the time.
So that helped them reframetheir experiences using BDS
(10:57):
norms of saying, hey, you knowwhat?
This is a different way to goabout structuring erotic play
and erotic relationships.
Shannon (11:06):
And then the second one was the restructuring, the self
concept, and this one'sinteresting to me because I
think there's all differentlevels of this right like what
your self concept is.
So it's something as much assexual self-esteem and new
self-knowledge and reclaimingyour confidence.
But I've even heard folks talkabout this in the context of in
my day-to-day life, in my wakinglife, I'm so in control and I'm
(11:29):
such a powerful person that inBDSM I love being a sub, because
it lets me completely embodythis other part of myself that I
don't get to live out in myday-to-day life.
And so that's where I thinkthis is an interesting one with
the whole restructuring selfconcept, because one way or
another, if your self concept isthat you're always in power or
your self concept is that you'rea little bit more subordinate
(11:49):
in your daily life, there's anopportunity to really switch
that role playing, you know,both within yourself and with a
partner, through BDSM, which isjust a really interesting,
striking balance.
Christine (11:59):
It is, it's striking.
Is that a pun intended?
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know if it's tied up inthe metaphors, but Well and I
think the other layer of that iswhat you just mentioned is the
role playing aspect.
So the role playing allowsindividuals to experiment with
who they are and experiment within a gradual way of how to
(12:22):
unravel how they might have beenimpacted by other past negative
experiences.
So it allows individuals tostep into their power because
it's starting as role play, andas role play, you can you know
for lack of a better term kindof fake it till you make it and
explore these areas in a safeway.
(12:42):
Yeah, all right.
That's the one thing that youcan't fake Well but it does
allow you to play with differentroles and to explore yourself
in a different way, kind ofoutside the box.
So that is kind of the part ofthe whole dynamics of BDSM and
(13:04):
role play and power exchange isit lets you play with things
that might be outside of yourordinary lived experience.
Shannon (13:13):
And then that leads to the third sort of theme that was
pulled out of this research,which was liberation through
relationships, so similar to theidea of self-concept, except
now bringing a relationaldynamic into it.
Christine (13:27):
And that is an important distinction is that
now these individuals are not,are talking about learning a
different kind of connectedness.
Shannon (13:36):
Yeah, and learning to be seen and valued in different
ways as well by those intimatepartners.
You know, I think a submith ofBDSM and of Kink is again, and
we talked about it being aboutpain, sex and pain being the
BDSM myth.
But there's also with bondageand with tying up and with
(13:56):
blindfolding and things likethat, there's an intimacy to it
that I think will overlook.
Where it's like you're beinggentle, there's a gentleness and
of course that ranges too.
But there is so muchopportunity in BDSM to be gentle
and to be intimate and to becareful and thoughtful and I
think that gets overlooked a lot.
But when we look at this thirdtheme of relational dynamics
(14:19):
with others, of liberation andrelationships, that's the flip
side.
It's not just pain and power,it's also tenderness.
Christine (14:27):
Well, and the tenderness and the vulnerability
and the openness comes fromthis really enhanced need for
trust in a BDSM relationship,and it doesn't have to be.
It doesn't have to be arelationship like we think of it
in terms of a romanticrelationship.
Instead, it's more like what'smy relationship between the Dom
(14:48):
and the sub, and in order for asub to give consent, a
submissive to give consent, thatrequires such a high degree of
trust and that's part of the waythese types of relationships
can be liberating, because,because BDSM has such strong
consent guidelines and boundaryguidelines, you can learn
(15:11):
liberation of a new relationshipof trust that allows you to be
more vulnerable and more open tonew experiences that maybe you
couldn't explore in the quote.
Unquote vanilla world.
Shannon (15:25):
Which leads to that fourth theme, which is
reclaiming power.
So very similar, but settingand maintaining personal
boundaries is a reclamation ofpower.
So being able to say no in thatcontext, that context Well, and
setting and maintaining andthat's another main myth too is
that there's no consent in BDSM.
There is so much consent inBDSM because of that, because
(15:47):
setting boundaries andmaintaining personal boundaries
is such a valued part, and asacred part even, of the BDSM
relationship.
Christine (15:59):
Really it is, and on top of that, much like when we
talked way, way back in thebeginning, we talked about
consent and we talked aboutfries.
Even in the BDSM world, you arefree to revoke consent and you
are free to have boundaries thatare yellow or red when you come
across something that you'reuncomfortable in at the moment.
(16:22):
So even if you are in the roleof a submissive and you have
given consent to the dominantperson, you can still revoke
that consent, even in the middleof a scene, and that is really
part of what reclaiming power isabout.
Some of the individuals whotalked about that actually said
(16:43):
and this was a quote from thestudy that being powerless is
powerful.
That's a really kind of I don'tknow.
A very deep theme, I think, isbeing able to be so in such a
space that you can give up allyour power transcends a lot of
(17:05):
what we come to understand ineveryday life in terms of giving
up power.
You don't usually see it as apositive, but the participants
in this study saw it as a way totransition into a new sense of
their own power, which was very,very cool.
Shannon (17:20):
Yeah, and I think just this is an important place to
pause and remind everyone againabout what the myth of this
episode is.
The myth is that BDSM is atrauma response, but what the
research really supports is thatit helps heal trauma.
So, as we're talking throughthese themes, it makes sense
that being powerless is powerful.
Imagine, right In the contextof healing from trauma, to be
(17:41):
able to feel like you don't haveto be in utter control and you
can still trust yourself andfeel trusted and in control when
you're out of control.
It actually makes a ton ofsense, when you think about it
in the context of this myth thatwe're talking about today, that
if you can use BDSM to coachyourself through feelings that
maybe once were triggering toyou and instead use them as a
(18:04):
reclamation of control, thatmakes sense.
And so that leads to the fifththeme, which is repurposing
behaviors.
And so that's engaging in actsthat maybe have harmed someone
in the past.
And you can think of that asmaybe role playing, where you
role place through maybe a scarysituation or a traumatic
situation.
And how do you work throughthat?
(18:25):
Even thinking about it with avery easy example, but maybe
something traumatic occurred inthe dark and you can really have
them to be blindfolded and thatmight take a while to work
through that and you may have towork through your setting of
boundaries constantly.
Where I'm blindfolded for fiveseconds, I'm done stop and it's
stopped and respected.
But next time you can do that.
Christine (18:45):
But that's a good point.
Shannon is under this theme.
It's considered very gradual, agreat gradual, prolonged
exposure, which is reallysimilar to any form of like
exposure therapy in psychology,where you have something that
you're traumatized with oryou're afraid of and the idea is
to to slowly become acclimatedto that so you no longer have
(19:10):
the trauma response.
The flip side of that is anumber of participants talked
about re-centering theirpleasure.
So if you talk about, likedarkness and the blindfold your
example, to take your example,shannon well, instead of being
when you're blindfolded, you canhave the opportunity to just
focus on your own pleasure andyour own body rather than
(19:33):
focusing on fear.
And so, once again, to quotefrom one of the participants in
the study, focusing on thepleasure in the moment created a
better reality, which is alsopretty, pretty stunning that
that there's such potential inthe BDSM kink space to alter
reality and for some that's areally powerful experience.
Shannon (19:56):
Well, and I think this is a good place to remind people
that they're, you know, atherapist who is kink aware is
really important.
If someone is using BDSM to workthrough trauma, having a
therapist who understands whatparticular trauma they're trying
to work through is veryimportant and, at a minimum,
having a partner who understandswhat they're trying to work
(20:16):
through in that BDSM context.
Because, you know, one of themore extreme examples of role
play with BDSM or healingthrough trauma would be you know
power dynamics right.
If you are a victim of sexualassault or sexual abuse,
something you might try to workthrough is asserting power in a
situation where there is someonewho is in a more natural
position of privilege and you'reworking through setting
(20:37):
boundaries or you're workingthrough inverting that power
structure so that you're incontrol.
Well, that's all well and goodon paper, but you are still a
person processing trauma.
So having a partner whounderstands the trauma you are
still going through to processand doesn't immediately throw
you in the deep end, and alsopairing that with a kink aware
therapist, is just reallyimportant.
That you know you don't listento this and think I'm going to
(20:58):
heal it, I'm going to go do someBDSM and I'm going to be great
tomorrow.
As with any form of therapy, itis important to be mindful of
the way that your psychologyworks with your body.
Christine (21:09):
And it's important to know too, Shannon, there and we
can post this when we post thepodcast there are a lot of kink
aware practitioners out thereand there are resources where to
find them.
You know the hours in Pawtucket.
Rhode Island has resources, butmore and more counselors are
actually becoming aware of thispotentiality.
(21:30):
So I would suggest find theright therapist, as we've talked
about in other podcasts.
Finding the right therapist iscrucial, but I want to add, they
are out there.
In fact, I have some friendswho are in that space so, and
they are eager to practice inthat space in order to find this
(21:52):
new, the kind of a new tool interms of helping people through
trauma to a more positivesexuality for themselves.
So that leads us to the lastsub theme, right, Shannon?
Shannon (22:06):
Yup Sub theme.
Christine (22:09):
Okay, which is redefining pain.
So there are people in the BDSMkink space who actually do
contrary to what some may sayactually do find the pain
experience very transcendent.
So for this group ofparticipants in this study, they
(22:29):
found that, in order, enduringthe painful experience actually
allowed them to transcend thosememories and allowed them to
reframe the experience of painas something that was more
positive.
Shannon (22:43):
And we have another research study where we'll talk
a little bit more about that andsome of the findings from that.
But I think you know just again, it's important to emphasize
here that even though thisresearch happens to show a
relationship between healingfrom trauma, it doesn't mean
that people who participate inBDSM are more likely to have
(23:04):
experienced trauma.
Christine (23:05):
No, exactly the opposite.
Bdsm kink community, vanillacommunity the numbers are the
same.
We, as humans, have experiencedtrauma and you know, there is
no research that I've been ableto find and I have looked
through a fair amount of it toshow that there's any higher
prevalence in the BDSM kinkcommunity of any.
(23:27):
You know pathology, contrary tothe myth.
So, which leads us to the nextresearch, because, although this
study involved a smallqualitative sample, the findings
of this study are actually inline with other research about
potential benefits of BDSM kinkpractices.
So I'm going to refer to astudy from 2020 that was
(23:51):
published in the Journal of SexResearch, and this one looked at
testimonials of 227practitioners about potential
benefits of BDSM.
Shannon (24:06):
Yes, the first one is sort of meditation, mindfulness
and relaxation.
So that's the potential benefitis that you have to be present
and focused in the BDSM dynamic.
You can't.
You know, it's pretty difficultto not be tuned in to that
experience.
Christine (24:26):
Well, and that's part of the practice of BDSM kink is
part of it, quite honestly, islearning how to be present and
focused.
So it's in line with kind ofthe vanilla world of meditation
and mindfulness, and theexperiences of BDSM
practitioners are quite similarto those people who are like
(24:46):
yogis or meditating and I thinkit leads to the same type of
benefits, which is basicallylearning how to be more focused
in the rest of your life andlearning how to be more present
in the rest of your life.
Shannon (25:00):
And again it's that idea that we talked about under
that fifth theme of repurposingbehaviors, of centering your
pleasure.
How often in meditation andmindfulness practices do you
hear find your center, centeryourself?
Christine (25:12):
Exactly Similar theme we have going on Like return to
your breathing right.
Shannon (25:18):
Well, maybe that hitting is really fast paced and
escalating by the second, whoknows?
Christine (25:24):
Or it might simply be return to your skin, return to
your body, return to the feelingof the impact of, you know, of
a flog or a whip or whateveryour, your, your kink is in the
moment, which actually leads toa second potential benefit,
reported by a fair amount ofpractitioners, which this this
(25:45):
idea of an altered state ofconsciousness, which in the
community is often referred toas subspace, and that is almost
like, if you're so in the momentand you're so focused, you can
actually, kind of like, leaveyour body, for lack of a better
term, the the participants inthe study who talked about the
(26:07):
experience referred to it as atrance and referred to it as
like really being outside ofthemselves, which is a very
interesting experience, I wouldimagine.
Shannon (26:20):
Yeah, it's funny.
I think that Rin mentioned thatwhen we interviewed her and I
don't remember if we included iton the episode or not, but
maybe I'll do a little diggingand find out if we can get that
sound bite, because Rin didmention that and that was part
of her experience with usingBDSM as a trauma.
Healing experience was beingable to separate herself and
just enjoy pleasure in thatsubspace.
Christine (26:42):
Then the last one that came up in this study,
which was contrary to what theresearchers expected, was that
for some participants, pain isactually enjoyed for its own
benefit.
They asked a lot of questionsof these individuals and found
that a fair amount of themactually just had a very high
(27:04):
pain tolerance to begin with.
But the experience that theydiscussed was like a runner's
high, when you reach that pointnot that I've done it all that
much, but you reach that pointwhere it's painful and then you
push through the pain and youstart feeling euphoric.
Well, the idea of the pain inthe BDSM context is really
(27:29):
similar, because the endorphinsboth are analgesic, which means
they ease pain, and euphoric,which means it's energizing and
it can put you on a high.
So that was a really curiousand unexpected finding, but I
think it really reinforces theidea that BDSM is not something
(27:51):
that's a result of sexualdysfunction.
It's actually a way to practicea higher state of eroticism.
Really.
Shannon (28:00):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I could see that some of ourlisteners might hear that and
say okay, so you should want tobe in pain.
No, no, no, this is a subset ofthe study.
Christine (28:11):
It was an unexpected finding because most
practitioners talk about themeditation aspect and the
trans-like aspect and the otherbenefits, like the fun of being
able to roleplay and, like youmentioned earlier, shannon, the
idea of, hey, I'm in control ofeverything in my real life, it's
(28:31):
so good to get up control, or Iam my real life, I have no
control, and so it's so fun tobe dominant.
And there are individuals inthe community that are called
switches that alternate,depending on context, what they
want to do.
So all of those are differentaspects of the experience, and
(28:53):
the idea that some individualsactually enjoy the pain aspect
is just one more facet of theBDSM kank experience.
Shannon (29:02):
It's funny.
I was talking to a friend ofmine.
The podcast comes up, naturally, in conversation quite a bit
and I've found and this is whywe do the show but when someone
finds out that you're willing totalk about sex, they sure will
talk about sex with you.
And so I was talking to afriend of mine and they said you
know, I love being tied up.
And I was like cool.
And they said I love being tiedup by my husband.
(29:24):
And I said cool.
And they said I love being tiedup by my husband because I
spend all of my time running thehousehold and having to ask him
to do things and like remindinghim of stuff and having to tell
him to pick up his towels anddo this.
And that's just like.
I just love being tied up andrestrained because I feel like
all the time I'm the one tellinghim what to do.
I'm like you know I go out on alimb and say your husband
(29:48):
probably likes it for similarreasons.
Very perceptive BDSM.
Again, it gets this very thisbad rep for being so extreme or
being deviant or being all aboutsex and pain, and we've
debunked all those myths at thispoint.
But the thing is too that muchlike pretty much everything we
talk about in the world ofsexuality and gender.
(30:09):
It's a spectrum, it is a rangeand you can play with it as much
as you'd like and we are not ago do BDSM podcast, but
certainly, if you want toconsider adding it to your all a
cart menu of sexual experience,as we have shown, there can be
benefits for the individual andfor couples and for not couples
and for anyone who's interestedin playing around, you might
(30:31):
find something you like.
Christine (30:32):
Well said, Shannon.
So the myth today was thatpracticing BDSM is a form of a
trauma response.
In fact, for many individualswho practice BDSM kink, engaging
in these activities in atrusting, highly consensual,
conscious environment has been ahealing and transformative
experience for persons toreclaim their sexuality and
(30:54):
sexual agency.
Shannon (30:57):
So that, my friends, is another myth Put to bed.
Thanks so much for tuning in toSex Ed Debunked.
We will be back again next weekwith another study session.
You won't want to miss it.
It is very specific to NovemberBonus points, if you can guess
what it's about.
We hope that everyone enjoysand acknowledges that this week
(31:20):
is asexuality awareness week andthis month, october, is kink
awareness month.
And again, as usual, if you'vegot any myths you'd like us to
debunk, to debunk topics you'dlike us to cover or basically
anything else, send us a messageat sexeddebunkedgmailcom and
follow us on all the socials atSex Ed Debunked.
Christine (31:40):
Take care everyone.
Happy Halloween Whoo.
Thanks for tuning in for thisweek's episode of Sex Ed
Debunked During the course ofour podcast.
We have limited time together,which means that, unfortunately,
many identities, groups andmovements may not be represented
(32:03):
each week.
The field of sexuality andgender orientations, identities
and behaviors are changing andgrowing rapidly, and we remain
committed to being as inclusiveas possible.
Shannon (32:14):
Please remember that all of us, including us, are
learning in this area and mayoccasionally slip up.
We ask that we all continue tobe kind to one another so that
we can create a truly inclusiveand accepting environment.
As always, if you have anyquestions or comments, please
feel free to reach out to us atSex Ed Debunked on Instagram,
facebook and Twitter.
Christine (32:33):
Sex Ed Debunked is produced by Trailblaze Media in
Providence, Rhode Island.
Our sound producer is EzraWinters, with production
assistance from Shea Winentree.
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