November 29, 2023 • 26 mins
We're rolling up our sleeves and taking a deep-dive into the turbulent world of sex education in today's episode. With insights right from the frontline of the Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality conference, we're tackling the shocking rise in rough sex, heavily influenced by internet pornography and social media. We share some staggering statistics and discuss these distressing trends with our esteemed guest, researcher Dr. Renee Rena Evans Paulson. She highlights the pivotal role of critical media literacy as a safeguard, stressing the need for open dialogues with young individuals about their digital consumption.
Switching gears, we shift focus to the importance of comprehensive sex education and its much-needed societal adoption. Remember GPT-3? We're exploring its potential footprint in sex education, celebrating some successful initiatives like Rhode Island's Department of Health's comprehensive sex ed app, and dissecting a study that reveals the overestimation of sexual health knowledge among college students. Our key takeaway? Comprehensive sex education is not just an option; it's a necessity to bridge the knowledge gap and promote safer sexual behaviors. Join us as we champion the power of research evidence and its crucial role in advocating for comprehensive sex education to policymakers. Tune in, get informed, and help us rewrite the narrative.
Follow us on social @sexeddebunked or send us a message at sexeddebunked@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shannon (00:03):
This is Study Sessions brought to you by Sex Ed
Debunked In these mini-sodes.
Christine (00:07):
We'll discuss a myth suggested to us by listeners.
Like you, Like what?
Shannon (00:11):
you hear, want to hear more?
Follow us on Instagram,facebook and Twitter at Sex Ed
Debunked to suggest new myths.
Provide your own show notes andgive us ideas for what to talk
about next.
Christine (00:20):
Now take some notes.
The study group is in session.
Hi, this is Study Sessions, abi-weekly mini-sode where we
cover topics brought to us bySex Ed Debunked listeners.
Shannon (00:38):
On this week's episode we are taking these study part
of study sessions literally andtalking about some of the
trending research topics in sexeducation.
So not necessarily brought tous directly by Sex Ed Debunked
listeners, but definitelybrought to us by people who
would be interested in listening.
Christine (00:53):
This is so true and you guys, our listeners, might
recall that we had a similarepisode last year when they came
back from the SexualityConference in Vancouver, canada.
Well, they had another annualconference this year, this time
in New Orleans.
New Orleans, the big, easy, andthe official name of the
(01:14):
society is the Society for theScientific Study of Sexuality,
otherwise known as QUADES, andthey bring together literally
sex researchers from all overthe world to present what's new
and up-coming in research to sexeducators, sex therapists,
counselors and people who arejust generally interested in
(01:37):
getting more information aboutwhat's going on, especially in
light of what's going on in ourcountry and the world these days
.
Shannon (01:43):
Yeah, fair enough.
Fair enough, and I think youknow every year.
I'm sure there are similartopics that are discussed, but
what we thought would be fun andintriguing for this study
session is to talk about some ofthe topics that maybe we
haven't thought about so much.
So we're going to give you atop five hottest and trendiest
in coming in from the big sleazy.
Christine (02:05):
No, no, no.
The big easy which is what Isaid.
Shannon (02:09):
I said what I said.
All right, I said what I said.
Christine (02:12):
So I'm going to start with one that maybe is a little
bit sobering, but also really,really important and that we
really we've only touched on.
We had the one episode onpornography not being real sex,
but the plenary of thedistinguished speaker and
researcher at this conferencewas Debbie Hermanick, who is
researching for many years outof the Kinsey Institute in
(02:35):
Indiana University, and she hada talk on the rise of rough sex,
what we've learned and whatsexuality researchers, educators
and clinicians need to know.
Shannon (02:46):
Interesting.
So what do we mean by rough sexand tell me how we know it's on
the rise.
Christine (02:51):
Well, it's first of all, one rough sex is beyond
what we might think of as BDSMand kink.
It is choking, punching,slapping, spanking, hitting,
tying, restraining, but in a waythat's not necessarily part of
(03:13):
quote unquote BDSM or kink, butactually in a way that's become
quite mainstream.
And that's the part that's alittle bit troubling, and
troubling because it seems to bea global trend.
So this isn't research that wasjust done in the US.
This was done across the worldand what they're saying.
And just listen to thesestatistics, which are really
(03:36):
stunning One in four teens havesent or received a sex and 80%
of young adults, includingcollege students, have engaged
in rough sex 80.
Oh, my gosh, 80.
And I will say anecdotally, Ihave a group of students who are
(03:58):
presenting this week onpornography use and I said to
them hey, you know which I'msure is the other half of your
question why?
And the answer is internet,pornography and social media.
And I said you know, it reallyhas increased rough sex, things
like choking.
And these students, these threevery bright students, said to
me that came from porn.
(04:19):
It's like basically what we doall the time.
Oh, yeah.
Shannon (04:26):
But okay, okay, so, okay.
So the woman who is presentingon this you're using the plenary
speaker was on those talkstalking about this.
Yeah, debbie Herbanek, andshe's from the Kinsey, which
some of our listeners mayremember.
The Kinsey scale on.
The Kinsey Institute continuesto do work in sex research, but
80% Oof.
Christine (04:45):
Well, and this is so.
This is the title of her newbook.
It's called yes, you're Kid,and the book is actually much
broader than rough sex.
It's actually a book designedto help parents who have young
teens and, you know, to helparound sexual communication,
(05:05):
because parents think that'shappening to other kids, and the
interviews of young collegestudents that were done as part
of this book said that mostlearned about rough sex between
eighth and tenth grade.
Shannon (05:25):
Oh boy, that is disheartening at best.
Christine (05:29):
Well, except except that this book offers a real,
good, solid guide tocommunicating and makes parents
aware of it.
So, the idea is like if you'rearmed with knowledge, then you
can find the tools to actuallytalk to your students, your kids
which leads me to the secondstudy that I wanted to mention,
(05:52):
and it was not, as it was, apresentation, not a big plenary
speech, but there was aresearcher, dr Renee Rena Evans
Paulson, phd, who had apresentation also looking at the
connection between pornographyuse and sexual violence and
(06:13):
dating violence, and found thatthe buffer against that
connection was critical medialiteracy.
Shannon (06:24):
Yeah, yeah that makes sense.
Christine (06:27):
But it means that to the extent that we teach our
young you know, children,nephews, nieces our young people
to look at what they see on theinternet and porn and social
media and TikTok with a criticaleye, it actually works as a
protective factor, which I thinkis kind of encouraging that if
(06:51):
parents and adults andcaregivers can get the courage
to have these conversations,yeah, Research suggests that it
can make a substantialdifference.
Shannon (07:02):
Yeah, it's interesting not to derail that particular
point, but I remember when I wasdoing research in my
communications master's program,one thing we talked about was
the importance of engaging inthat critical media lens.
You know, because parents wholet their kids watch a lot of TV
get a lot of flack rightBecause, like, oh, they're not
going to learn, they're going topoison their brains.
(07:23):
Actually, if they watch TV butyou engage in critical
discussions about it, it can bereally good for them and helps
them develop theory of self.
That helps them developcritical thinking.
So, similarly, yeah, if youwatch yeah, I mean you're going
to if you don't have the abilityto critically analyze
information, then of course youare going to be more easily
succumbing to mistruth.
Christine (07:45):
Well and like we had the episode on the myths that
porn sex is real sex.
Right, and we know that's amyth, but if you are in eighth
grade, maybe you don't.
If you have, if you're notgetting comprehensive sex
education in your school, youmight think that what you're
seeing on the internet isactually closer to reality than
it really is.
To your point, Shannon, that'sone of the recommendations in
(08:08):
Debbie Hervinick's book is, ifsomething is too difficult to
talk about it, find some mediaand talk about it in the context
of the media that you'rewatching as a framework for
communication.
Shannon (08:20):
Interesting.
Pretty, yeah, it's.
It's rough, though.
I like the name of the bookthough.
Yes, you work it, not somebodyelse's.
Christine (08:29):
Shannon, I literally when, as soon as I got back from
the conference, I literallywent on Amazon and bought it,
and then I also emailed thelibrarian at Wesleyan to make
sure it would be on the shelvesat Wesleyan University.
So it's that important.
But let's shift to something alittle lighter and interesting
that we can talk about Somethingthat's not as rough.
Shannon (08:50):
You might say Not as rough, no, a little more gentle.
Great Love that.
Christine (08:56):
And actually something that I absolutely
never really thought about in acomprehensive way, which is
saying a lot.
It was a talk on eco-sexuality.
Shannon (09:06):
Well, that is really interesting.
Yes, it was so cool.
Sex it's good for the planet.
Christine (09:11):
Well, we talk.
We did talk a little bit aboutsustainable sex toys when we had
our episode on Love Not War,where they made you know
environmentally friendly sextoys, but this took it to a
whole new level.
So Dr Amanda Morgan was talkingabout the idea of not as the
earth, being your earth mother,but being your earth lover.
(09:35):
If you treated the earth in thesame way you treated a lover,
we would be much more likely tobe, to be kind to the earth and
to do things that are going tosustain it.
So that was kind of like herfoundation and her framework.
Thank you, and I will.
I've emailed her to try to gether slides, because then she
(09:58):
went through all these ways.
Like, for a lot of people, theywant to be eco-friendly.
Right, we hate the idea ofclimate change.
We want to make a difference.
Well, she went through a listof eco-friendly sex toys based
on how they're made, what thematerials that they come from.
There's.
Actually, it was aneco-friendly butt plug, believe
(10:21):
it or not, made of wood.
Shannon (10:23):
Oh no, I don't believe it.
Christine (10:25):
But made of wood, but made of wood that had a very
natural laminate to it.
That was actually really kindof sustainable and healthy.
It sounds kind of nice.
It was actually if you couldput it on your mantle and no one
would know it was a sex toy butalso eco-friendly lube,
(10:46):
eco-friendly condoms, all thosethings that are being naturally
so, looking at both thematerials that are used and also
how they are created in termsof a sustainable, a sustainable
corporation, a sustainablemanufacturing, all of that which
I thought was reallyinteresting.
(11:09):
But then there was one area thatwas really kind of outside the
box, shall we say, talking aboutactual eco-sexuality and two
researchers out in Las Vegas whowant a movement to have the E
be added to the LGBTQ aseco-sexual meaning, and she
(11:35):
showed all of these clips ofpeople, basically naked, rolling
around in the dirt.
I am one with the dirt, so forany of our listeners who are
curious, she also showed a clipfrom Greenpeace, which, as you
know, is like the climateenvironmental activist group,
called Forest Love, and it wasimages of the forest and the
(11:59):
overlay was love making sounds.
It was out of the blue.
Shannon (12:03):
Oh, I mean it's weird.
It's like a weird mix betweenASMR, but also kind of like you
know, there are a lot ofwellness practices, of course,
around the earth andsustainability right, like mud
baths or thing.
Christine (12:22):
And she actually said that.
You know, if you think about itand I know that we've
experienced it when you go outand you see, like this amazing
sunset, and you go, oh, and it'sthat feeling of awe which is
almost erotic and almost sexual,so that it's not necessarily
(12:42):
you don't have to take itliterally as the earth, as your
lover, but certainly you canhave a very erotic, sensual
experience being in touch withthe earth, and there are a lot
of people who practice that on aregular basis.
Just might not call iteco-sexuality, yeah.
Shannon (13:03):
I got.
Okay, no, I'm bought, I'mbought, I get it.
I mean, sustainability is ahuge part of the modern consumer
.
It might as well be a huge partof the modern bedroom too, well
, or?
Christine (13:16):
well, outdoor bedroom .
Shannon (13:18):
Yeah, interesting.
Christine (13:20):
So it was pretty cool .
So, and coming back again,looping back to the issue of
consent, right, so we weretalking about porn and how that
impacts, you know, consent anddating violence and all of that.
So there was one researcher,anna Thrasch, who had a poster
and I was attracted to itbecause the title of the poster
(13:42):
was hey, chat GPT, what issexual consent?
Shannon (13:50):
Oh, I really want to believe that it said good things
.
I really want to believe thatit said good things Well it did.
Oh my God, Okay great.
Christine (13:59):
And I know you know more about AI than I do.
But if AI is, if someone'sasking these questions of the AI
and the AI comes up with ananswer that is current,
currently talking about, youknow, enthusiastic consent, all
the fries things we've talkedabout, right, Really, given
specific can be withdrawn at anytime.
(14:21):
What does that mean to you, oh,AI expert?
Shannon (14:26):
Well, it means that the aggregate information that is
being pulled by AI is allpointing to accurate definitions
of consent.
I'm actually flustered over howwell the robots did on this one
, yes, well, and let me say I'veactually been on another
podcast talking about theproblems with AI and there are a
(14:48):
lot of ethical issues with AI,but that's because a lot of the
internet is problematic and soyou know.
Again, because AI is based onaggregate data, you often get
the bias towards whatever themajority perspective is.
So to hear that.
The reason why I'm excited ifanyone doesn't totally put this
together is that it means thatthe majority of information
(15:08):
that's on the internet aboutconsent is about informed
consent and is actually pullingin the true definition of
consent.
Not just merely saying no, butactually getting that
affirmative yes.
Christine (15:20):
Exactly, and there was a whole series of questions
around consent and you knowthere were even questions about,
you know, scenarios.
You know if somebody had Xamount to drink and, you know,
appeared drunk, could theyconsent?
No, I mean, like they got theanswers right and I think it
shows that some of thesemessages are actually, I think,
(15:44):
becoming the majority.
So that's pretty great, I think, and pretty great from this
perspective of maybe a youngperson, a teen, saying oh okay,
I'm going to ask chat, gpt whatconsent is, and they get the
right answer.
Shannon (15:59):
I'm not sure who it is that you think talks like that.
I'd like to meet them, butpoint taken, fair enough.
Christine (16:10):
So I think we had two more we wanted to discuss
briefly.
So the one of the ones that Ithought was really interesting
because it was based in RhodeIsland, hey, hey, I was chatting
with a researcher from the whowas commissioned by the Rhode
Island Department of Health towork on a new survey measure for
(16:32):
gender, because, as we, as weknow, and me and you obviously
as researchers you get thequestion of what is your gender?
Male, female, yeah, clearly,clearly not appropriate.
And this researcher wasactually tasked with the with
the job of saying well, how manytrans, gender diverse people
(16:55):
live in Rhode Island, andbasically she said I got nothing
to measure that I don't knowthat.
So it's very much a still a workin progress, but what their
efforts are is to take what usedto be a very bad one question
scale, which merged into a sortof better two question scale,
(17:18):
which generally is somethinglike what sex were you assigned
at birth and then what is yourcurrent gender, to add a third
step which allows for open endedresponses and, really
importantly, on the question ofwhat is your gender, allows
people to answer and check morethan one checkbox.
(17:40):
Nice, so Rhode Island is ismaking progress.
Hopefully they're hoping thatthey're going to do one more.
I think, when I talk to her,they're going to do another
round of, you know, testing ofthe data and testing of the
scales, but they're hopingthey're going to have something,
something done and up andrunning within the next year or
so.
Shannon (18:01):
You know, something I really have loved about doing
this podcast is realizing thatour little state does try its
best to lead the way in a lot ofthings.
Like, of course, we did theinterview last year with the
Rhode Island Department ofHealth and they're launching of
that you know, comprehensive sexed app.
Yeah, yeah, and, like you know,it makes me.
It makes me proud of our littlestate, because if if you can't
(18:21):
get the little people to startdoing it, then you're not going
to get the big ones to startdoing it either.
Christine (18:26):
Well, and some of this, and actually the
researcher, one of theresearchers on the chat GPT one
was from, was affiliated withBrown.
So there's some good stuffcoming out of Rhode Island and
I'm proud of it.
Little Rody too.
Shannon (18:41):
All right, what's the last one?
What are we wrapping up with?
Christine (18:43):
Well, the last one is is one more push, and because
of our, because of the nature ofour podcast is, you know, sex
ed debunked and pushing the needfor more comprehensive sex
education.
Well, a study was done by Anumber of researchers at James
Madison University.
Looking at the title, anunsurprising and scary study
(19:08):
overestimation of sexual healthknowledge of college students
regardless of previous sexhealth education.
So, basically, what they did isit's like your classic if
you've ever heard ofDunning-Kruger right, people
know a heck of a lot less thanthey think they know.
Shannon (19:28):
Yeah.
So to put that in lay person'sterms for anyone who was like
wait, what does that mean?
It means that people areassuming they know more than
they actually do about sex ed.
Christine (19:38):
Right, and so the way they structured this survey is
they asked participants, collegestudents.
They asked them to first take aseries I think it was like a
series of four or six questionsabout how much do you think you
know about you know sexualanatomy, sexual pleasure, all
these things and rate howconfident you are in that
(19:58):
knowledge.
And the participants had a highrating for what they thought
they knew 85%, very high.
However, then they gave them a30 question test on sexual
health knowledge based on actualquestions.
Yeah, and scores were about17.9%.
Shannon (20:24):
This is giving Alabama and their estimations of certain
sizes of things energy.
You don't know as much as youthink you know.
Christine (20:36):
Yeah, so, and the bottom line is they said that
most 68% rated their sexknowledge as high as high, but
they show actually scored lessthan 50%, and yeah.
Shannon (20:55):
So what does that mean?
Like, let's boil that down,because we do feel like the
reason people are estimatingthat presumably is because they
are getting sex education.
So what do we pull away fromthat?
They're getting sex education,but the sex education isn't
matching up with actual sexualknowledge.
Christine (21:11):
Well, I think two things.
I think college students thinkthat they have sexual education
because they either have sexualexperience or they have watched
a lot of social media andinternet porn.
So, they think they know thingssimply because they have watched
it and absorbed it from otherways.
(21:32):
A flip side of it is that theyhaven't gotten actual
comprehensive sex education thatwould cover these 30 questions.
I mean, looking at the teststhat they used on sexual
knowledge, these were not hardquestions.
These were basic questions thatif you had comprehensive sexual
education between K and 12, youwould know the answers to these
(21:56):
questions.
I was talking about this studyto my roommate just before we
went on the podcast and she wassaying that she was looking at I
think she was relaying aconversation that she saw on
social media, but the gist of itwas that a guy was talking to
his girlfriend and thegirlfriend started laughing
(22:18):
hysterically and she said oh myGod, I'm laughing so hard I'm
going to pee in my pants.
And this college guy was likewell, how can you do that?
You have your period, aren'tyou wearing a tampon?
So did you actually realizethat they were separate?
Shannon (22:34):
Oh yeah, no, that's scary, I would say.
Christine (22:39):
It is scary, but it's important to realize that we
cannot assume that just becausestudents, and maybe our kids or
our nieces, nephews, whoever,just because they're in college,
they actually have a base ofknowledge.
And I can confirm that when Iwas teaching psychology of human
(23:00):
sexuality at UConn, I had grown.
A grown ex-military guy come upto me and say, oh my God, I
never learned this stuff.
Shannon (23:10):
Yeah, and it's scary.
And it's scary is like one wordfor it, but it's also
disappointing and, as we'vetalked about on the show,
there's just such a rippleeffect of that not having that
education, overestimating thateducation.
It really can lead tounintentionally much riskier
sexual behaviors when you don'tknow what you don't know.
Christine (23:31):
Well, it does and it's true.
But I also think that this typeof research, shannon, really is
really underlining even moreand emphasizing even more the
need to have comprehensive sexeducation, because you can't
assume that simply becausesomeone reaches the age of 18,
19, 20, 25, and they have theactual sexual knowledge they
(23:53):
need to really explore sex in ahealthy, safe and pleasurable
way.
And I think that, although youkind of use that adjective of
scary for some of this research,I guess for me, being in the
research field, I say this isevidence.
Shannon (24:11):
I came out of the research field.
Christine (24:13):
And now I'm in the research field and this is
evidence.
This is evidence to take topolicymakers at every level to
say we still need this, we'restill doing a terrible job.
And if we want to reduce stigma, reduce suicidality for sexual
and gender minorities, if wewant to reduce dating violence,
(24:36):
if we want to reduce sexualassault, if we want to reduce
situations of non-consent,education really is the answer
and that's what this research isall across the board, this
whole conference.
The bottom line is the more weknow, the more we know and the
more we educate, the better offwe're all going to be, at every
(24:58):
single level of our society.
Shannon (25:01):
Boom Boom, absolutely, yeah, no, that makes sense.
It's good to know that you haveempirical evidence to support
that.
There is still work that needsto be done.
Christine (25:13):
Well, and the work is being done and you know what
the chat GPT study says.
The work is getting donebecause at least on consent it's
getting out there.
So maybe we'll just keepshouting from the podcast To the
podcast rooftop, that's rightand say keep doing it and we'll
try to influence what chat GPTfunds and AI funds, yeah, and
(25:36):
then we'll go into the algorithm.
Shannon (25:37):
It'll all be good.
Christine (25:38):
It's all about that algorithm.
Hey, we're getting so close tothose 20,000 downloads.
People Just keep listening tothis one over and over again.
Shannon (25:45):
Yeah, yeah, find our shortest episode and listen to
it about 20 times and we'll bein business.
We'll be all set Awesome.
Well, that is our recap of justsome of the trending research
in sexuality and sexual healthright now.
Maybe some surprises for you,maybe some topics you'd like to
hear more about?
So let us know, we can continueto share the research and, as
(26:05):
usual, we will be back nextWednesday with another episode
of Sex Ed Debunked.
Christine (26:10):
Take care everyone.
Bye now.
Sex Ed Debunked is produced byTrailblaze Media in Providence,
Rhode Island.
Our sound producer is EzraWinters, with production
assistance from Shea Weintra.
This is Study Sessions brought to you by Sex Ed
Debunked In these mini-sodes.
Christine (00:07):
We'll discuss a myth suggested to us by listeners.
Like you, Like what?
Shannon (00:11):
you hear, want to hear more?
Follow us on Instagram,facebook and Twitter at Sex Ed
Debunked to suggest new myths.
Provide your own show notes andgive us ideas for what to talk
about next.
Christine (00:20):
Now take some notes.
The study group is in session.
Hi, this is Study Sessions, abi-weekly mini-sode where we
cover topics brought to us bySex Ed Debunked listeners.
Shannon (00:38):
On this week's episode we are taking these study part
of study sessions literally andtalking about some of the
trending research topics in sexeducation.
So not necessarily brought tous directly by Sex Ed Debunked
listeners, but definitelybrought to us by people who
would be interested in listening.
Christine (00:53):
This is so true and you guys, our listeners, might
recall that we had a similarepisode last year when they came
back from the SexualityConference in Vancouver, canada.
Well, they had another annualconference this year, this time
in New Orleans.
New Orleans, the big, easy, andthe official name of the
(01:14):
society is the Society for theScientific Study of Sexuality,
otherwise known as QUADES, andthey bring together literally
sex researchers from all overthe world to present what's new
and up-coming in research to sexeducators, sex therapists,
counselors and people who arejust generally interested in
(01:37):
getting more information aboutwhat's going on, especially in
light of what's going on in ourcountry and the world these days
.
Shannon (01:43):
Yeah, fair enough.
Fair enough, and I think youknow every year.
I'm sure there are similartopics that are discussed, but
what we thought would be fun andintriguing for this study
session is to talk about some ofthe topics that maybe we
haven't thought about so much.
So we're going to give you atop five hottest and trendiest
in coming in from the big sleazy.
Christine (02:05):
No, no, no.
The big easy which is what Isaid.
Shannon (02:09):
I said what I said.
All right, I said what I said.
Christine (02:12):
So I'm going to start with one that maybe is a little
bit sobering, but also really,really important and that we
really we've only touched on.
We had the one episode onpornography not being real sex,
but the plenary of thedistinguished speaker and
researcher at this conferencewas Debbie Hermanick, who is
researching for many years outof the Kinsey Institute in
(02:35):
Indiana University, and she hada talk on the rise of rough sex,
what we've learned and whatsexuality researchers, educators
and clinicians need to know.
Shannon (02:46):
Interesting.
So what do we mean by rough sexand tell me how we know it's on
the rise.
Christine (02:51):
Well, it's first of all, one rough sex is beyond
what we might think of as BDSMand kink.
It is choking, punching,slapping, spanking, hitting,
tying, restraining, but in a waythat's not necessarily part of
(03:13):
quote unquote BDSM or kink, butactually in a way that's become
quite mainstream.
And that's the part that's alittle bit troubling, and
troubling because it seems to bea global trend.
So this isn't research that wasjust done in the US.
This was done across the worldand what they're saying.
And just listen to thesestatistics, which are really
(03:36):
stunning One in four teens havesent or received a sex and 80%
of young adults, includingcollege students, have engaged
in rough sex 80.
Oh, my gosh, 80.
And I will say anecdotally, Ihave a group of students who are
(03:58):
presenting this week onpornography use and I said to
them hey, you know which I'msure is the other half of your
question why?
And the answer is internet,pornography and social media.
And I said you know, it reallyhas increased rough sex, things
like choking.
And these students, these threevery bright students, said to
me that came from porn.
(04:19):
It's like basically what we doall the time.
Oh, yeah.
Shannon (04:26):
But okay, okay, so, okay.
So the woman who is presentingon this you're using the plenary
speaker was on those talkstalking about this.
Yeah, debbie Herbanek, andshe's from the Kinsey, which
some of our listeners mayremember.
The Kinsey scale on.
The Kinsey Institute continuesto do work in sex research, but
80% Oof.
Christine (04:45):
Well, and this is so.
This is the title of her newbook.
It's called yes, you're Kid,and the book is actually much
broader than rough sex.
It's actually a book designedto help parents who have young
teens and, you know, to helparound sexual communication,
(05:05):
because parents think that'shappening to other kids, and the
interviews of young collegestudents that were done as part
of this book said that mostlearned about rough sex between
eighth and tenth grade.
Shannon (05:25):
Oh boy, that is disheartening at best.
Christine (05:29):
Well, except except that this book offers a real,
good, solid guide tocommunicating and makes parents
aware of it.
So, the idea is like if you'rearmed with knowledge, then you
can find the tools to actuallytalk to your students, your kids
which leads me to the secondstudy that I wanted to mention,
(05:52):
and it was not, as it was, apresentation, not a big plenary
speech, but there was aresearcher, dr Renee Rena Evans
Paulson, phd, who had apresentation also looking at the
connection between pornographyuse and sexual violence and
(06:13):
dating violence, and found thatthe buffer against that
connection was critical medialiteracy.
Shannon (06:24):
Yeah, yeah that makes sense.
Christine (06:27):
But it means that to the extent that we teach our
young you know, children,nephews, nieces our young people
to look at what they see on theinternet and porn and social
media and TikTok with a criticaleye, it actually works as a
protective factor, which I thinkis kind of encouraging that if
(06:51):
parents and adults andcaregivers can get the courage
to have these conversations,yeah, Research suggests that it
can make a substantialdifference.
Shannon (07:02):
Yeah, it's interesting not to derail that particular
point, but I remember when I wasdoing research in my
communications master's program,one thing we talked about was
the importance of engaging inthat critical media lens.
You know, because parents wholet their kids watch a lot of TV
get a lot of flack rightBecause, like, oh, they're not
going to learn, they're going topoison their brains.
(07:23):
Actually, if they watch TV butyou engage in critical
discussions about it, it can bereally good for them and helps
them develop theory of self.
That helps them developcritical thinking.
So, similarly, yeah, if youwatch yeah, I mean you're going
to if you don't have the abilityto critically analyze
information, then of course youare going to be more easily
succumbing to mistruth.
Christine (07:45):
Well and like we had the episode on the myths that
porn sex is real sex.
Right, and we know that's amyth, but if you are in eighth
grade, maybe you don't.
If you have, if you're notgetting comprehensive sex
education in your school, youmight think that what you're
seeing on the internet isactually closer to reality than
it really is.
To your point, Shannon, that'sone of the recommendations in
(08:08):
Debbie Hervinick's book is, ifsomething is too difficult to
talk about it, find some mediaand talk about it in the context
of the media that you'rewatching as a framework for
communication.
Shannon (08:20):
Interesting.
Pretty, yeah, it's.
It's rough, though.
I like the name of the bookthough.
Yes, you work it, not somebodyelse's.
Christine (08:29):
Shannon, I literally when, as soon as I got back from
the conference, I literallywent on Amazon and bought it,
and then I also emailed thelibrarian at Wesleyan to make
sure it would be on the shelvesat Wesleyan University.
So it's that important.
But let's shift to something alittle lighter and interesting
that we can talk about Somethingthat's not as rough.
Shannon (08:50):
You might say Not as rough, no, a little more gentle.
Great Love that.
Christine (08:56):
And actually something that I absolutely
never really thought about in acomprehensive way, which is
saying a lot.
It was a talk on eco-sexuality.
Shannon (09:06):
Well, that is really interesting.
Yes, it was so cool.
Sex it's good for the planet.
Christine (09:11):
Well, we talk.
We did talk a little bit aboutsustainable sex toys when we had
our episode on Love Not War,where they made you know
environmentally friendly sextoys, but this took it to a
whole new level.
So Dr Amanda Morgan was talkingabout the idea of not as the
earth, being your earth mother,but being your earth lover.
(09:35):
If you treated the earth in thesame way you treated a lover,
we would be much more likely tobe, to be kind to the earth and
to do things that are going tosustain it.
So that was kind of like herfoundation and her framework.
Thank you, and I will.
I've emailed her to try to gether slides, because then she
(09:58):
went through all these ways.
Like, for a lot of people, theywant to be eco-friendly.
Right, we hate the idea ofclimate change.
We want to make a difference.
Well, she went through a listof eco-friendly sex toys based
on how they're made, what thematerials that they come from.
There's.
Actually, it was aneco-friendly butt plug, believe
(10:21):
it or not, made of wood.
Shannon (10:23):
Oh no, I don't believe it.
Christine (10:25):
But made of wood, but made of wood that had a very
natural laminate to it.
That was actually really kindof sustainable and healthy.
It sounds kind of nice.
It was actually if you couldput it on your mantle and no one
would know it was a sex toy butalso eco-friendly lube,
(10:46):
eco-friendly condoms, all thosethings that are being naturally
so, looking at both thematerials that are used and also
how they are created in termsof a sustainable, a sustainable
corporation, a sustainablemanufacturing, all of that which
I thought was reallyinteresting.
(11:09):
But then there was one area thatwas really kind of outside the
box, shall we say, talking aboutactual eco-sexuality and two
researchers out in Las Vegas whowant a movement to have the E
be added to the LGBTQ aseco-sexual meaning, and she
(11:35):
showed all of these clips ofpeople, basically naked, rolling
around in the dirt.
I am one with the dirt, so forany of our listeners who are
curious, she also showed a clipfrom Greenpeace, which, as you
know, is like the climateenvironmental activist group,
called Forest Love, and it wasimages of the forest and the
(11:59):
overlay was love making sounds.
It was out of the blue.
Shannon (12:03):
Oh, I mean it's weird.
It's like a weird mix betweenASMR, but also kind of like you
know, there are a lot ofwellness practices, of course,
around the earth andsustainability right, like mud
baths or thing.
Christine (12:22):
And she actually said that.
You know, if you think about itand I know that we've
experienced it when you go outand you see, like this amazing
sunset, and you go, oh, and it'sthat feeling of awe which is
almost erotic and almost sexual,so that it's not necessarily
(12:42):
you don't have to take itliterally as the earth, as your
lover, but certainly you canhave a very erotic, sensual
experience being in touch withthe earth, and there are a lot
of people who practice that on aregular basis.
Just might not call iteco-sexuality, yeah.
Shannon (13:03):
I got.
Okay, no, I'm bought, I'mbought, I get it.
I mean, sustainability is ahuge part of the modern consumer
.
It might as well be a huge partof the modern bedroom too, well
, or?
Christine (13:16):
well, outdoor bedroom .
Shannon (13:18):
Yeah, interesting.
Christine (13:20):
So it was pretty cool .
So, and coming back again,looping back to the issue of
consent, right, so we weretalking about porn and how that
impacts, you know, consent anddating violence and all of that.
So there was one researcher,anna Thrasch, who had a poster
and I was attracted to itbecause the title of the poster
(13:42):
was hey, chat GPT, what issexual consent?
Shannon (13:50):
Oh, I really want to believe that it said good things
.
I really want to believe thatit said good things Well it did.
Oh my God, Okay great.
Christine (13:59):
And I know you know more about AI than I do.
But if AI is, if someone'sasking these questions of the AI
and the AI comes up with ananswer that is current,
currently talking about, youknow, enthusiastic consent, all
the fries things we've talkedabout, right, Really, given
specific can be withdrawn at anytime.
(14:21):
What does that mean to you, oh,AI expert?
Shannon (14:26):
Well, it means that the aggregate information that is
being pulled by AI is allpointing to accurate definitions
of consent.
I'm actually flustered over howwell the robots did on this one
, yes, well, and let me say I'veactually been on another
podcast talking about theproblems with AI and there are a
(14:48):
lot of ethical issues with AI,but that's because a lot of the
internet is problematic and soyou know.
Again, because AI is based onaggregate data, you often get
the bias towards whatever themajority perspective is.
So to hear that.
The reason why I'm excited ifanyone doesn't totally put this
together is that it means thatthe majority of information
(15:08):
that's on the internet aboutconsent is about informed
consent and is actually pullingin the true definition of
consent.
Not just merely saying no, butactually getting that
affirmative yes.
Christine (15:20):
Exactly, and there was a whole series of questions
around consent and you knowthere were even questions about,
you know, scenarios.
You know if somebody had Xamount to drink and, you know,
appeared drunk, could theyconsent?
No, I mean, like they got theanswers right and I think it
shows that some of thesemessages are actually, I think,
(15:44):
becoming the majority.
So that's pretty great, I think, and pretty great from this
perspective of maybe a youngperson, a teen, saying oh okay,
I'm going to ask chat, gpt whatconsent is, and they get the
right answer.
Shannon (15:59):
I'm not sure who it is that you think talks like that.
I'd like to meet them, butpoint taken, fair enough.
Christine (16:10):
So I think we had two more we wanted to discuss
briefly.
So the one of the ones that Ithought was really interesting
because it was based in RhodeIsland, hey, hey, I was chatting
with a researcher from the whowas commissioned by the Rhode
Island Department of Health towork on a new survey measure for
(16:32):
gender, because, as we, as weknow, and me and you obviously
as researchers you get thequestion of what is your gender?
Male, female, yeah, clearly,clearly not appropriate.
And this researcher wasactually tasked with the with
the job of saying well, how manytrans, gender diverse people
(16:55):
live in Rhode Island, andbasically she said I got nothing
to measure that I don't knowthat.
So it's very much a still a workin progress, but what their
efforts are is to take what usedto be a very bad one question
scale, which merged into a sortof better two question scale,
(17:18):
which generally is somethinglike what sex were you assigned
at birth and then what is yourcurrent gender, to add a third
step which allows for open endedresponses and, really
importantly, on the question ofwhat is your gender, allows
people to answer and check morethan one checkbox.
(17:40):
Nice, so Rhode Island is ismaking progress.
Hopefully they're hoping thatthey're going to do one more.
I think, when I talk to her,they're going to do another
round of, you know, testing ofthe data and testing of the
scales, but they're hopingthey're going to have something,
something done and up andrunning within the next year or
so.
Shannon (18:01):
You know, something I really have loved about doing
this podcast is realizing thatour little state does try its
best to lead the way in a lot ofthings.
Like, of course, we did theinterview last year with the
Rhode Island Department ofHealth and they're launching of
that you know, comprehensive sexed app.
Yeah, yeah, and, like you know,it makes me.
It makes me proud of our littlestate, because if if you can't
(18:21):
get the little people to startdoing it, then you're not going
to get the big ones to startdoing it either.
Christine (18:26):
Well, and some of this, and actually the
researcher, one of theresearchers on the chat GPT one
was from, was affiliated withBrown.
So there's some good stuffcoming out of Rhode Island and
I'm proud of it.
Little Rody too.
Shannon (18:41):
All right, what's the last one?
What are we wrapping up with?
Christine (18:43):
Well, the last one is is one more push, and because
of our, because of the nature ofour podcast is, you know, sex
ed debunked and pushing the needfor more comprehensive sex
education.
Well, a study was done by Anumber of researchers at James
Madison University.
Looking at the title, anunsurprising and scary study
(19:08):
overestimation of sexual healthknowledge of college students
regardless of previous sexhealth education.
So, basically, what they did isit's like your classic if
you've ever heard ofDunning-Kruger right, people
know a heck of a lot less thanthey think they know.
Shannon (19:28):
Yeah.
So to put that in lay person'sterms for anyone who was like
wait, what does that mean?
It means that people areassuming they know more than
they actually do about sex ed.
Christine (19:38):
Right, and so the way they structured this survey is
they asked participants, collegestudents.
They asked them to first take aseries I think it was like a
series of four or six questionsabout how much do you think you
know about you know sexualanatomy, sexual pleasure, all
these things and rate howconfident you are in that
(19:58):
knowledge.
And the participants had a highrating for what they thought
they knew 85%, very high.
However, then they gave them a30 question test on sexual
health knowledge based on actualquestions.
Yeah, and scores were about17.9%.
Shannon (20:24):
This is giving Alabama and their estimations of certain
sizes of things energy.
You don't know as much as youthink you know.
Christine (20:36):
Yeah, so, and the bottom line is they said that
most 68% rated their sexknowledge as high as high, but
they show actually scored lessthan 50%, and yeah.
Shannon (20:55):
So what does that mean?
Like, let's boil that down,because we do feel like the
reason people are estimatingthat presumably is because they
are getting sex education.
So what do we pull away fromthat?
They're getting sex education,but the sex education isn't
matching up with actual sexualknowledge.
Christine (21:11):
Well, I think two things.
I think college students thinkthat they have sexual education
because they either have sexualexperience or they have watched
a lot of social media andinternet porn.
So, they think they know thingssimply because they have watched
it and absorbed it from otherways.
(21:32):
A flip side of it is that theyhaven't gotten actual
comprehensive sex education thatwould cover these 30 questions.
I mean, looking at the teststhat they used on sexual
knowledge, these were not hardquestions.
These were basic questions thatif you had comprehensive sexual
education between K and 12, youwould know the answers to these
(21:56):
questions.
I was talking about this studyto my roommate just before we
went on the podcast and she wassaying that she was looking at I
think she was relaying aconversation that she saw on
social media, but the gist of itwas that a guy was talking to
his girlfriend and thegirlfriend started laughing
(22:18):
hysterically and she said oh myGod, I'm laughing so hard I'm
going to pee in my pants.
And this college guy was likewell, how can you do that?
You have your period, aren'tyou wearing a tampon?
So did you actually realizethat they were separate?
Shannon (22:34):
Oh yeah, no, that's scary, I would say.
Christine (22:39):
It is scary, but it's important to realize that we
cannot assume that just becausestudents, and maybe our kids or
our nieces, nephews, whoever,just because they're in college,
they actually have a base ofknowledge.
And I can confirm that when Iwas teaching psychology of human
(23:00):
sexuality at UConn, I had grown.
A grown ex-military guy come upto me and say, oh my God, I
never learned this stuff.
Shannon (23:10):
Yeah, and it's scary.
And it's scary is like one wordfor it, but it's also
disappointing and, as we'vetalked about on the show,
there's just such a rippleeffect of that not having that
education, overestimating thateducation.
It really can lead tounintentionally much riskier
sexual behaviors when you don'tknow what you don't know.
Christine (23:31):
Well, it does and it's true.
But I also think that this typeof research, shannon, really is
really underlining even moreand emphasizing even more the
need to have comprehensive sexeducation, because you can't
assume that simply becausesomeone reaches the age of 18,
19, 20, 25, and they have theactual sexual knowledge they
(23:53):
need to really explore sex in ahealthy, safe and pleasurable
way.
And I think that, although youkind of use that adjective of
scary for some of this research,I guess for me, being in the
research field, I say this isevidence.
Shannon (24:11):
I came out of the research field.
Christine (24:13):
And now I'm in the research field and this is
evidence.
This is evidence to take topolicymakers at every level to
say we still need this, we'restill doing a terrible job.
And if we want to reduce stigma, reduce suicidality for sexual
and gender minorities, if wewant to reduce dating violence,
(24:36):
if we want to reduce sexualassault, if we want to reduce
situations of non-consent,education really is the answer
and that's what this research isall across the board, this
whole conference.
The bottom line is the more weknow, the more we know and the
more we educate, the better offwe're all going to be, at every
(24:58):
single level of our society.
Shannon (25:01):
Boom Boom, absolutely, yeah, no, that makes sense.
It's good to know that you haveempirical evidence to support
that.
There is still work that needsto be done.
Christine (25:13):
Well, and the work is being done and you know what
the chat GPT study says.
The work is getting donebecause at least on consent it's
getting out there.
So maybe we'll just keepshouting from the podcast To the
podcast rooftop, that's rightand say keep doing it and we'll
try to influence what chat GPTfunds and AI funds, yeah, and
(25:36):
then we'll go into the algorithm.
Shannon (25:37):
It'll all be good.
Christine (25:38):
It's all about that algorithm.
Hey, we're getting so close tothose 20,000 downloads.
People Just keep listening tothis one over and over again.
Shannon (25:45):
Yeah, yeah, find our shortest episode and listen to
it about 20 times and we'll bein business.
We'll be all set Awesome.
Well, that is our recap of justsome of the trending research
in sexuality and sexual healthright now.
Maybe some surprises for you,maybe some topics you'd like to
hear more about?
So let us know, we can continueto share the research and, as
(26:05):
usual, we will be back nextWednesday with another episode
of Sex Ed Debunked.
Christine (26:10):
Take care everyone.
Bye now.
Sex Ed Debunked is produced byTrailblaze Media in Providence,
Rhode Island.
Our sound producer is EzraWinters, with production
assistance from Shea Weintra.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!