November 20, 2024 • 67 mins
The mask you wear isn’t the man you are - discover how authentic brotherhood and fatherhood transform modern masculinity in this week's newest episode with Adam Jackson.
Jacob sits down with Adam Jackson, co-founder of Sacred Sons, for an intimate and unfiltered conversation about what it truly means to be a man, father, and leader in today’s world. From birth portals to brotherhood circles, we dive deep into the journey of authentic masculinity.
This episode is a powerful reminder that true strength comes not from doing it all alone, but from having the courage to be seen, supported, and held by your brothers. Whether you’re a father, on your men’s work journey, or simply seeking deeper connection, this conversation will inspire you to step more fully into your authentic power.
They also riff off on:
• The sacred initiation of becoming a father
• Why men need to take off their masks and get real
• How men’s circles create profound transformation
• The power of receiving vs always giving
• Moving from lone wolf to supported brother
• Birth as a ceremonial portal
• The ancient technology of men’s circles
• Learning to ask “is there more?” and “how can I support you?”
• Balancing service to family with service to community
and many more.
🔥 Love this episode? Don’t forget to subscribe and share your thoughts in a review. We love hearing from our listeners!
🔥 Let’s stay connected:
•Follow Meg: @the.meg.o
•Follow Jacob: @thejacoboneill
🔥 Connect with Adam:
Instagram: @adam___jackson
Website: sacredsons.com
🔥 Want more?
⚡ Grab our relationship freebie: https://meg-oneill.com/relationship-freebie
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⚡ Join TGOM - https://www.theembodiedmaninstitute.com/tgom-2024
Jacob & Meg also coach individuals and couples—slide into their DMs for more info!
#menswork #authenticmasculinity #fatherhood #sacredbrotherhood #vulnerability #transformation #leadership #podcast #masculinity #personalgrowth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Um, yeah, these moments ofinitiation into what it means to
be human, when we when we allowourselves to remove the mask.
You know, this is a big part ofmen's work. Like take off the
mask that you that you can do itall on your own, that you got it
all together, you know, all thethings. Or take off the mask,
that you believe you're notenough. Take off the mask, that
you can't do it, that you're notdoing it right? You know these,
(00:22):
these are the type of thingsthat you know go on inside the
minds of men as as I've seen it,and when we take that mask off,
we get back to the essence ofwho we are and what we're here
to do in this lifetime.
Yo, yo, yo. Lovers. Welcome,welcome. Welcome to sex, love
(00:45):
and everything in between wherethe O'Neills you're here with
Megan Jacob, and this is theplace we have really uncensored
conversations about sex,intimacy and relationships.
We're super excited you're here.
Enjoy this episode. Youyo, yo. Lovers, hello, hello,
hello. Welcome to anotherepisode of sex, love and
(01:08):
everything in between. And Megis currently out taking our
beautiful son, oshin, for awalk, and I'm here having a
conversation with a man that'sdeeply inspired me and my
journey with men's work. Andyeah, we've got Adam Jackson
here. He's the co founder ofsacred sons. He hosts the sacred
sons podcast. And yeah, this hasbeen something
(01:32):
that I've wanted to reach outand make happen. And all year
I've been trying to reach out.
And I'll be like, Oh, I'll sendthe email now. I'll send the
email now, and I can nowunderstand like I had to go
through the birth portal. I hadto become a father to really
arrive here on this call withyou, bro. To I believe, like,
get as much value as I can, butalso really share some some
(01:53):
deeper truths with with ouraudience, man. So thank you so
much for taking the time to bewith us today.
Yeah, Jacob, thank you forinviting me. Thank you for
keeping me in your thoughts. Andcongratulations on the birth of
your little baby, ocean,33 days, 33 days of life. How
(02:13):
precious and what a beautifulceremony. Just before we started
recording, you were telling me alittle bit about the birth, and
I have a daughter, Winona, who's10 months so I have four
children. My oldest is 10 yearsold, and my youngest is 10
months old. So I am just as muchof a new dad as as what you're
(02:35):
stepping into as well. So Ireally feel you on that journey.
And congratulations to you andyour family.
Amazing man. Thank you so much.
And yeah, hearing that like, I'mthe eldest of four children
myself, and I grew up in thecountry with siblings and just
nature. And for me, that's theit's so amazing. What's come
(02:55):
online since Oh Sheen hasarrived. It's like, oh, I want
space. Ah, I want family. Ah,all of a sudden, my time is
sacred. Now, Netflix gone,scrolling gone. These things are
no longer valid. They no longerhold priority, or these
distractions are no longer havehave as much of a hold on me
(03:16):
because there's someone watchingme, there is someone that that
really is not that needs me atthe moment, but will need
someone to look to, to model howto move through this world. And
it's been a massive it's been abeautiful, beautiful wake up for
me like a another layer. And aswe were talking before this idea
(03:37):
of a ceremony, the birthceremony. It really feels like
that was a wonderful experience.
And now there's this kind ofongoing ceremony of like, how,
how am I moving today? How am Ifeeling today? And what is, what
is my intention?
And that has this whole newdepth of meaning, because ocean
is like laying in the bed nextto me, and his eyes are looking
(03:59):
at me. I'm like, Oh, this is notjust about me anymore.
Yeah. And how powerful for us asfathers to be a part of the
ceremony of birth. You know, Ifeel like there's so much
in the in the spiritualcommunity here. There's so much
attention given to the plantmedicines, which I revere and
(04:20):
honor, or to even the men'swork, or whatever modality you
choose, the morning ice bath. Ibelieve that all ceremonies are
trying to get back to that onesingular moment when we first
crossed the portal into thislife and as a father to be
present, not only for the birthof the child, but for the for
the mother to be justsupportive, to be encouraging,
(04:45):
to be acknowledging it's enough,and if more men could have that
experience of full presence astheir children come into this
world, just that alone, wouldmake this world a better place.
Oh, man, yeah.
You're speaking my language. Ireally what, what just like the
words that were coming was like,I'm not going anywhere, like I'm
(05:07):
not going to run, I'm not goingto hide, I'm not going to let
someone else step in and playthe role that I was. I'm here to
play for you, that I'm here toembody, that I'm here, that I'm
that is my sacred duty to you asmy woman, and that is that that
is really, really landed for meduring the birth. It's like I I
was meant, I'm meant to be here.
I'm meant to be standingalongside you, and so you have a
(05:28):
lived recent experience to giveyou that motivation not to run,
but to stay, to be the mountain,to be the pillar, to be the safe
space,you know, to be a force of of
generosity, evenWell, not all men have that. Not
(05:48):
all men have a lived experienceto inform them. So how do we get
and it's not, it's not to say wedon't have trials and
tribulations in life thatencourage us to move on, right?
However, like, family is sacred,you know, the the idea, like, I
have been someone who has ranin my life. You know what I'm
(06:13):
saying? Like, I know the sense.
I know the I know the urge to,like, I'm out of here. I'm done.
I can't sit in this. And so howdo we as men create those
experiences for ourselves to notonly to test us, but to give us
the the the amount of capacity,emotional capacity, to stay and
(06:36):
I believe that's what men's workdoes, you know? And I, I'm
curious about your experience.
You know, you joined sacred sonswhen we were in Australia last
year, yeah, man, it wasphenomenal. I
I was blessed to to have Carlyas my as the leader of the the
group that I was a part of. AndI had, I had just an incredible
(06:56):
experience, man, like I hadalways seen what you men were
creating over in in America, andI was like, this is this speaks
to me, because there's aceremonial aspect to this. There
is a cultural aspect to this,and there is a reverence for the
natural world that speaks to meand for my my journey. Just to
(07:18):
put into a sentence, it's like,it's been through the plants,
deep reverence for the plants.
Man like that has been that hasbeen how I found my way home.
And thenI realized I looked around, I
was amazing women doing the workaround me. And I was like, ah,
there's one thing missing here,and it's the men. It's my
brothers. So that's where men'swork came in for me, and it was
(07:40):
really the it landed a lot ofthe things that the plants
revealed and gave me a place tomove through the world, where I
could actually, like, have somereally solid mirrors and some
really solidmoments of of of breakthrough,
because I was around men, yeah,yeah. And my experience that I
had, I had a beautiful,beautiful experience at Sacred
(08:04):
suns, and the way that the Kaliled the group that I was in, and
the energy and the thecongruence and the way that the
team moved together, was abeautiful experience for me, man
and I had, I actually had ahuge, huge healing in that space
around something that I thoughtI dealt with, and it was like a
new layer that had to that hadto be peeled fast, had to be
(08:27):
peeled back. Yes, but there'ssomething about the power and
the sacredness of the collectivewitness of other men. I
just want to say Kali is thebest prayers up for my brother
CO at this time. And yeah,that's what in the beginning,
(08:47):
when we were conjuring up thisthing we call sacred sons.
That's what we saw. Was missingbroadly from this work. I saw
men's circles as 50 year oldwhite guys sitting around in
fold out chairs underfluorescent lights,
talking about how much theirsituation sucked, or how much,
you know, debt they were in. Andthere's more. There's more. When
(09:12):
we have been unlocked by theplants, and I see this work when
with the collective witness ofmen, with the circle, this is
ancient. This stuff is in ourbones. It's in our DNA. And so
when we circle up with othermen, it's a it's an incredible
opportunity to integrate thosebig blast off experiences which
are largely individual. And soI've had my own experiences with
(09:36):
Ayahuasca, where it was soprofound, but it was, it was my
own.
It's a dream within this dreamof life. But what you're
speaking to when you had thisbreakthrough had, you know, to
be held, supported and witnessedby others. It grounds in the
capacity that we have to heal.
Mm.
(10:00):
Yes,I, I resonate. That is exactly,
if it's to be witnessed, becauseI've had so many deep moments on
the mountain with, you know,with, with Ayahuasca, with and
San Pedro has been my mymedicine, and my teacher for
like, eight years, like, watchfuma. It's, it's constantly, and
once, once it's it's once Iworked with that medicine, I
(10:23):
learned that, ah, that medicineis working with me and I'm
working with it. And this is arelationship. I then saw the
value in awe. So when I go towork with men, I'm working with
men, and men are working withme. It's not just me having the
experience, it's them witnessingme having the experience that
act that deepens and grounds inthe healing or the the
(10:43):
embodiment that takes place inthose spaces.
Yeah, I don't. I agree with youthat relationship, and I feel,
you know, grandma, workingthrough me. I feel the the fire
tending working through me. Wewere talking about sweat lodge
earlier too. Like sweat lodgewas the experience that really
(11:05):
got my feet on the path, youknow, I had, I found a sweat
lodge.
How long it's probably 13 yearsago now.
I was coming out of a bigbreakup in my life. You know, we
had a house together, we had adog, we owned a business
together, and it was, it was areally challenging moment in my
(11:26):
life, and a good friend invitedme up the mountain to go to
sweat. And so I got up there,and we're sitting in circles. Is
the first time I ever sat in acircle like with intention to
share what was going on in mylife and
the man pouring Lodge, his nameis Daniel thunder Hawk moon. I
still sit with him to this day,shout out to the moon family.
(11:49):
And as it came around to me, hesaid, Why are you here?
Which is a question I now askevery man that I come into
contact with. And I, you know, Iwas filled with resentment man
of this breakup. And I said, youknow, she did this, she did
that.
You know she left.
And he just looked at me andsaid, Do you know what all of
(12:11):
your relationships have incommon?
You are in all of them.
And this was the first time aman had looked at me dead in my
eyes and given me an honestreflection,
not to tell me it's going to beokay, not to appease my
judgments of the situation,right, but to like, look me dead
(12:34):
in my eyes and into my heart andsay, Hey, man, take ownership
for this. Take ownership of yourpart. And I would say that began
my mentor journey. Not that itwas, it was a co Ed space and
everything, but I was like, Holyshit, I need a mentor, you know,
like, I could, I could use some,I could use some feedback from
other human beings. I don't gotit all. I don't got it all
(12:55):
figured out, you know what Imean? And it's okay. It's okay
men to admit that. Like, wedon't have it all, and we've
been sold a lie, and that lie isthat you have to do it all on
that you have to do it all onyour own, and if you ask for
help, it's weakness,if you don't have the answer to
lie. And that is fuckingbullshit.
(13:17):
And so what? What men's workalso does
nothing hides. Nothing hides inthese circles, you know, and
even the things that you don'teven know are there. You thought
you did all the work with theplants, and then you're like,
Whoa, the work is never done, myfriend. And there's something
that's that is very sacred aboutmen doing this together. And,
(13:38):
you know, I found it to be sopowerful that I've taken it on
as a part of my life's work andmission, and to bring this to
other men, and,you know, to to bring presence
to these things that I'mspeaking of. And you know,
globally, there's a lot ofconversation around men's mental
health. People are not doingwell. This is a wild fucking
(13:59):
time right now. It truly is. Ittruly is. And so
just like where you're at withyour family, what you will find
out, and what I have found out,even though you're willing to
stand in and stay it still takesa village. It takes community.
Moms need support from other.
Mothers, fathers need to connectwith each other and be real and
(14:22):
talk about what's going on. Thisis the way forward. It's not
about suppressing. It's nolonger about medicating. It's no
longer about numbing.
This is the old way and the newway. It's about really
expressing ourselves from aplace of vulnerability and truth
and honesty and getting real.
And I found that to be the mostpowerful medicine on the planet.
(14:52):
Yeah, I, I concur. Man, I don'thave much more to add to that,
other than, like, that's beenthe receiving I believe.
Is one of the hardest thingsthat I've had to remember to do
that fierce independence andthat I don't need anything, but
I'm willing to give everything.
And this was something,something that I learned on a
bridge in Peru.
(15:15):
I was going through a huge, ahuge sort of meltdown. On the
first journey, we went to aYeah, wonderful, wonderful
sacred site, and I was walking,and I was just started crying,
and I was purging, and I waslike, I'm just so sick of trying
to, trying to hold it alltogether. And we stood on this
(15:37):
bridge, and we looked down theriver, and the river was flowing
away from us. And my mentor atthe time, Gemma, she said, just
let the river take it all. Letit take it all. And I just stood
there, and I could just feel allof this weight, of the of
response, of this responsibilitythat I took thinking that it was
mine, when it really wasn't forI had to look after this person.
(15:59):
I had to be this for thisperson. I had to be this. And it
was this constant shape shiftingto be everything for everyone.
And I was letting it go. And Ithought that was the end of us,
like, all right, I feel lightnow. She's like, No, turn
around, andwe turn around, and the river
started rushing towards us, andshe's like, now, receive all
that you deserve. And thatcompletely and utterly rocked
me,because the letting go, I was
(16:22):
like, Oh yeah, I've got to, I'vegot to, you know, let go of the
baggage, or I've got to kill theboy to become the man. All of
these terminology of like,healing and fixing myself was so
intoxicating, but then to turnaround and actually feel
pleasure and feel joy andactually have my desires met.
(16:43):
That was what really opened meup to the idea of, like, Oh my
God, there's so much more herethan I could have ever imagined.
Yeah, yeah, these moments ofinitiation into what it means to
be human when we when we allowourselves to remove the mask.
You know, this is a big part ofmen's work, like take off the
(17:03):
mask that you that you can do itall on your own, that you got it
all together, you know, all thethings. Or take off the mask,
that you believe you're notenough. Take off the mask, that
you can't do it, that you're notdoing it right. You know, these,
these are the type of thingsthat you know go on inside the
minds of men, as as I've seenit, and when we take that mask
off, we get back to the essenceof who we are and what we're
(17:28):
here to do in this lifetime.
And it seems like when youstarted to receive from that
river, maybe life started toprovide a little bit more
sustenance and nourishment yourway and to the point where, here
you are with a beloved and witha child 33 days in, yeah, man,
and that, you know, that waswhat I realized, was I was,
(17:50):
I wasn't honoring the, you know,the guiding principle which we
learned in in Peru, which wasAyni, which is sacred
reciprocity, that nothing goesone way, giving and receiving,
receiving and giving when we'redoing it in alignment. That is
when you give, you receive, andwhen you receive, you give. And
that blew my mind. And then toactually
(18:12):
step into a space where I couldreceive, and like ask for help
and support I'veand like to be 33 days in, and I
only just cooked the first meal.
Wow, last night. You got sometribe over there. The meal
trains happening, dude, the mealtrains was, it was at the
(18:32):
station every day. So, like,man. Like, that's like, I, I
couldn't figure it out, becauseI need to go to the markets. I
need to go buy food. I've gotall this, I have, I have all
this stuff to do, and then I hadnothing to do because I had my
community. And the other part,which I'd love to just quickly
share with you, is that I run a,I run a large men's retreat
(18:53):
called the gathering of men, andit's a, it's an annual retreat
where we bring all the differentcommunities together, and we had
200 men on the landjust one month ago,
and I organized that. And I'mthis, I'm the, I'm the founder
of this, this, this movement.
And I didn't go because, oh,Sheen was born. The Meg's labor
started as the opening ceremonybegan.
(19:19):
How powerful. And he was bornthat evening, and I missed from
from Friday to Monday, I was athome with my family, while the
men that I trust and that Icalled in for my support, they
ran it like seamlessly, and itwas the best one we've done, and
I wasn't there. And that for mewas the this feels like a it was
(19:40):
a solidification of my myreceivership and my trusting in
other men. Wow. So that was ahuge and it's been such a
beautiful thing to be connectingwith these men now a couple of
weeks later, and hearing theirtheir stories from from the
experience that they had, and toknow.
That this was not just, it's notjust the Jacob O'Neill show or
(20:03):
I'm not the savior or the guru.
And that's what I loved aboutsacred sons, that there was no
one face to the brand. It was a,it was a circle. It was a it was
a brotherhood, it was acollective. And that's really
what this year felt like. Itfelt like I stepped away from
needing to be that the guy, andI let the circle really hold
form, and I got to receiveexactly what I needed, which was
(20:25):
space to be with my family,which is,
which was the kind of thinglike,
I didn't want to run for myresponsibility at home, but I
also want to have an impact inthe world.
I also want to have what, whatgreater responsibility Could
there have been for you to showup? Like, how this is like, a a
(20:47):
message for all of thosebrothers who you've gathered.
It's like, hey, when I have youknow this, this calling, this
responsibility, like, this ishow I show up. And I think,
yeah, man, I've gone through thethe same type of surrendering,
leaning into trust, trusting mento run events. We have events
(21:09):
around the world with men thatwe've trained and trained with.
But sacred sun started withthree of us, so we already
started as a triad and into acircle. There's enough of those
guys out there who are the guruor the dude, you know, enough of
that. There's plenty of coachesyou can go do that anywhere. And
there is something that'sincredibly powerful when a
(21:31):
circle of men come together,when we acknowledge each other's
gifts andand CO create, you know, from
that place, I think that'sthere's something that really
shifts from men that I see whenwe come together, not in
competition, but incollaboration. It activates a
new type of being within us.
(21:51):
And, you know, I could justshare. I wanted to say two
things when my son Holland wasborn,
the sacred sons brothers, as Ihad a meal train, they also made
my one of our chefs put togethera cookbook for me, which was
just a crock pot cookbook. So itwas like, different crock pot
recipes, because I, you know,having the postpartum meals
(22:12):
going. And so my brothers, theyshowed up. I'm not the greatest
Cook. I'm eggs, bacon, pancakes,you know, the whole things, but
at that time, it wasn't thatgreat. And they brought me all
these recipes, and I was like,fuck yeah, man. Like, let me,
let me get my got my crock potskills on. And I just love, I
love the creativity that cancome along with these things.
But at our first, at our firstsacred son's convergence, like I
(22:35):
said, there was three of us whoorganized and co founded it, but
it was, it was still an elementof like, wow, we have close to
100 guys here. How are we goingto pull all this together? And
what I noticed immediately, asthe men started showing up, how
can I help? What do you need meto do? I got two good hands.
Where can I put them? Where canI put myself to good use? And I
was like, oh, oh, yeah. Theseare men. They want to
(22:57):
contribute. They want to help.
And and it's like the smile thatyou have in your face lets me
know that you know this, like,the true nature of men is to be
of service. This is somethingthat doesn't get spoken enough
about, because I think the focusis put on providership, you
know, like, Oh, you gotta, yougotta do it. You gotta provide.
Yes, and when we are, when weare able and put in situations
(23:20):
to be of service to somethingthat we believe in, it also,
it's, it's also a part of thehealing experience, you know
what I mean? And so, yeah, it'sanother part of the reason I
like working with men.
There's, there's, there's littlenuance there that I think people
outside of this type of work maynot even realize is there,
(23:46):
man, my favorite, one of myfavorite
moments from last year's eventthat we had is, like, on day
three, when you look over andthere's, like, way too many
people in the kitchen helping,like, everyone's chocolate
parrots, like other guys arerunning water. These guys are
doing this. Other guys, and I'mjust looking over like, wow,
they're like this. This energyis really an energy of service.
(24:09):
Like, how can we come togetherand do this together? And I have
a memory ofof childhood. I remember we had
a big family barbecue, and wehad heaps of people there, and
then it was the boys turned todo the cleaning. We had its
cousins and sisters, and then Ihad brothers and cousins. And
(24:29):
when the sometimes the boyswould do the cleanup, sometimes
the girls would do the cleanup.
But anyway, I was the oldest,and we're doing the cleanup.
There's only three of us boysthere, my little brother Ryan,
who just recently came to hisfirst men's retreat, which was
great. And then my cousin Wyattand I remember, like, we had to,
we, like we were, we were like,Oh, we've got to do the cleanup.
(24:50):
But then we turned it into thiswhole extraction mission, and we
created this whole imaginaryworld of like, All right, we've
got to get these trays up to thesafest.
And we literally, like, we wereliterally, like, created a whole
and it became this, like,amazing experience. And we still
laugh, because, like, Man, thatwas such a fun time. And we were
washing dishes, but we're doingit together, and we're being of
(25:13):
service to the family. I just Itbrings tears to my eyes,
because, like, that was, like,that was, that's such a strong
memory. And we were, what, like,if you look at the task, what we
were doing was washing up andcleaning, but it was the it was
the feeling of service and theway that we created fun and play
around it. And for me, that'sthe nuance of men's work. Is
(25:33):
like when the when it, when itreaches that tipping point where
everything becomes just magicand the synchronicity just
flows. Yeah, I love that. And,you know, I'm raising boys. I
have three sons, and myyoungest, Winona, and yeah, with
the boys, we make everythinginto a challenge. We make
everything fun. And chores don'thave to be like, Hey, you gotta
(25:57):
do this before the fun starts. Ilike to be like, you know, who
can pick up all the toys thefastest go if you, if you give,
there is a bit of competition,I'll be real, but if you give a
little bit of the encouragementof play along with the chores,
all of a sudden, like, itdoesn't matter what we're doing.
We as men, you know why we haveall these sports globally?
(26:19):
Because we fucking make upgames. We like to make up games.
It's no secret, I think, even inindigenous culture, when the
food is in abundance, wheneverything is tended to, men,
tend to go and gamble or creategames or create like these other
worlds of competition. And so inraising boys, I'm kind of
(26:42):
unlocking these codes of how to,how to do that in a good way
with my own children, you know.
And it oftentimes looks like abit of like, hey, 100 points, if
you can, you know, do thisrandom thing, whether it's
taking out the trash or pickingup all the toys. This is, this
is a pretty common thing everyday, picking stuff up.
(27:04):
I'm like, yeah, it's a lot ofpicking up, but you know, that's
that's a special energy, andwe're not trained in these
relational ways as men. In myexperience of education, it had
to do a lot with memorization,with regurgitation of
information, and not so muchrelationship
(27:26):
and and I think there's a newlevel of education that's
possible here. And it doesn'tlook like sitting down, eyes
forward, being quiet. It lookslike being in our bodies. It
looks like challengingconfrontation. It looks like
wild celebration. And these arethe parts of men's work that
really light me up. You know,when we we can be in the
(27:48):
wildness of our full expressionas a human on this beautiful
planet that we're on, and wecan, we can be humble. We can be
close to the ground. We can crytogether, we can pray together,
you know. And in my experience,there wasn't a lot of room for
(28:10):
that. You know, I was raisedCatholic. I went to Catholic
school. They told me when thekneel, when to stand.
You know, I got in loads oftrouble because I was always
talking or drawing on my desk orwhatever I was doing. And
there's more all that to say.
There's more. And as a father,I'm I'm in deep in R and D,
trying to feel it out, trying toreally understand,
(28:35):
how do we raise strong men outof these young boys? Right?
Because this is another placewhere I see society, society,
the education system, whateverthat is, the previous generation
has kind of failed us, or atleast, at the very least, set us
up for failure. You know thedream of the initiation being
getting your driver's license,being able to drink this or
(28:59):
that, smoke this or that, andthat's, that's the initiation.
Then you go to college, then youthen you move on to a
relationship, you get the job,you get the girl, whatever
that's that is. I have seen thatas a dead end pathway,
and a lot of men areunfulfilled, chasing this
(29:21):
manufactured reality, and mymessaging in this way, is just
to let brothers know that thereis so much more to life, and
there is so much more to you.
Boom, we're back.
All right, I just want to sayit's, it's, it's ironic, but
(29:45):
it's also the realist of thereal. We're talking about the
roles of the Father, and just aswe're talking about it, you
know, real life is happening forme, my son, Johan, got hit with
a really harsh stomach bug. So.
And simultaneously, as I, as Itold you, my other son, Holland,
crapped his pants at the sametime, and his mom's like, Hey, I
(30:09):
don't know what you got going onthere, but I need you now. And
this is, this is the role of thefather, despite what's happening
around us, despite the chaosthat is swirling Can we, can we
be centered,be the mountain, and can we
prioritize our families? And Ithink I feel like for both of
us, prioritizing our homes, ourfamilies, our beloveds, it has
(30:34):
to be at the core of of thiswork,
100% man. And like you said, itwas just quite it was just so
beautiful that that was thething that happened right in the
middle of the podcast. It waslike, Oh, we're talking about
the sacred role of man and howwe do the work for our families.
And then it's literally in themiddle of the podcast, you get
called to embody that. And whatI loved was like, for me, I was
(30:58):
like, of course, there was nolike, oh, Adam's running away
from me. Or there's no Oh, thisisn't important to him. And the
beautiful thing, man, I justwant to honor you, was that your
communication immediatelyafterwards, okay, I want to pick
this up and complete this. Therewasn't like, just like, Oh,
we're not going to get to do it.
There was communication. Andthere was a level of like, hey,
let's get this done, and I'mstill going to show up and
(31:18):
complete this, this interview,and that, for me, was such a
beautiful experience. And itit's showing me, because
yesterday I had one of thosedays where, oh, Sheen just
didn't want to, you know, playto the schedule that I had for
my day. I had a full day of workplanned, and I did one thing. I
had a list of 10, and he neededme, and my wife needed me, and I
(31:40):
thought about you and you beingcalled to honor, you know, your
role. And it was like, Yes. Iwas like, This is what I'm here
to do. But if I can't do this,then what is the actual value of
the work that I'm that I'mbringing to the world in the
men's work space, if I can't doit in my own home? Yes. And that
brings to me the value of men'swork, you know, it's structure
(32:04):
and flow, and so, you know, I'malso just getting off a call
with a few brothers and sacredsons. And life is really
happening out here. We just wentthrough a massive election
season. This entire year hasbeen so divisive in many, on
many levels, but like in thepolitical ideology, the the
identity politics as it is,and circling up with a group of
(32:28):
men, not only for the witnessthat we were speaking of, but
to put our heads together like,maybe, maybe I'm fully resourced
at the moment, and there's abrother who's who's not, and
then maybe there's times whereI'm like, dude, like, I'm in the
unknown right now. I needsupport. That's really what
(32:49):
men's work invites in. It'sthere's no gurus here. It's the
circle. The circle is theteacher. You know, there's no
perfect there's no perfectpeople. And if anybody's coming
at you talking about perfectionrun. Yes. So, so funny. You say
that because like, I am, like Isaid, I got called to be in the
(33:09):
birth portal with my wife when Iwhen the gathering of men, we
call it, T Gong, was running,and I've got a bro, his name's
Keegan, and shout out to Keegan,he I called him. I said, bro, I
need you to step in for me. Ineed you to play, play the role
that I normally play, and I'mthe I'm the hot man, that's
that's drumming, that's singing,that's just like bringing the
bringing the energy. That's kindof the role that I play in the
(33:30):
lead team. And he said, I've gotyou, bro. And he's like, can you
just send me a voice note? Justsend me a voice note, though,
sort of encapsulating what theessence of this year is about,
and I remember sending it to abit. I hopped off, and I was
like, I think all I all I keptsaying, was the circle, the
circle, the power of the circle,the ancient technology, this
primordial technology of thecircle, where the circle can
(33:54):
hold everything that needs to beheld. It can witness everything
that needs to be witnessed. Andthe beautiful of the circles. It
can expand and contract based onhow many men are there, or if
some man needs to step away, thecircle can close in. It can the
container, can literallynavigate itself. And for me,
that that idea of the circle iseven to the point where I bring
(34:15):
it into my personal life aswell, is like, I've got my inner
circle. And it's funny, youknow, we were speaking last
week, it's like the fridge isfull again. Man, was talking
about, like, the I had, I hadone of the facilitators, my bro,
Nick, came by yesterday anddropped off fresh fruit and a
carton of eggs and a lasagna inthe freezer and some ice cream
for my wife.
(34:37):
And, like, that's for me, that'sthe circle. Literally,
intuitively guiding andsupporting and resourcing the
community. Yes, yes, it's got tobe. And I get this all the time.
How do I bring this work home?
How do I, you know, how do Iimplement it into my life? And I
believe that it's just in that.
(34:57):
It's in the relationships, it's.
In the actual bonds that we makewith one another, and the way
that we create those thosestrong bonds is through deeply
intimate, you know, situationsand you know, I think I said
last time we were talking that Ihave been someone who has ran in
(35:18):
the past, and very early on insacred sons, it was literally
the first time we had what'scalled an emX embodied masculine
experience. I remember there wasa brother facilitating
a Russian guy, and, you know, Iwas watching this process
unfold, and the facilitatorcalled me in to be a supporter
(35:42):
of this man, and somehow I endedup holding his feet to the
ground, and I'm holding his feetlooking at these sweaty, stinky
feet.
Tears are dropping. Beautifulmovement is happening. Energetic
shifts are happening. You know,healing is happening. But in my
mind, I was just going, like, ifI can do this for this brother,
(36:05):
for this stranger, can I bringthis home? Can I stand when it
gets hard, when the tantrum ishere, when the meltdown is here,
when the uncertainty of lifecreeps in? Because, as we know
in this work, like there'snowhere to arrive where we're
like, sorted all figured out. Igot this master, mastery of
(36:25):
life. And in fact, it's actuallythe moments when you think you
have it together the most thatthe other shoe drops or that
things go awry. And that momentis so vivid for me because it
taught me that I can stand inthe storm like I can just be
with it, and those experienceswe have to train for it. No one
is teaching us as men how to howto stand in, how to stay in the
(36:51):
game, how to stay in when it'swhen it's especially when it's
hard. And so we train, and we dothat over and over again, to the
point where, with something suchas primal recalibration. You can
have someone actually screamingin your face, and you can just
stand in and hold it. And youknow, in my home, there's,
there's two powerful questions,is there more?
(37:16):
And how can I support you menmastering these two questions,
and my for myself to masterthese, these, these moments like
even, like I'm saying,during the the times that would
typically, you know, shake us tothe core where we're like, Fuck,
I just want to be out of here.
Is there more? Is there more?
Because I have more capacitynow. And how do I have more
(37:39):
capacity because of the circleof men that not only has held me
in the depth of my uncertainty,but has also held me accountable
to standard and to my word,yeah,
that that what I take from thatand how, like, I'm sort of just
(38:02):
understanding my own journey alittle more. Is like, yeah, it
has almost felt like the lasteight years of my journeys from
that first ceremony through tomy then deepening into men's
work six years ago, and thenslowly finding my way to this
point of deep facilitation isit's really been a matter of how
much can I become like thehollow bone Yes, and clear out
(38:24):
my my nervous system, of all thethings that stop me from serving
but how do I expand that nervoussystem capacity? How do I become
resilient, but not rigid, and beable to ask, like, that's a
beautiful question. Is theremore and
for us? You know my wife, it'slike, how can I love you better?
Like, hey, how could, how couldI love you better? And rather
(38:45):
than trying to say, what do youneed, it's like, how can I love
you better? And that's, um, and,you know, being in that birth
portal, and my wife and I juststarted doing our podcast series
on that, I'm reallyunderstanding the process work
in a men's work space, how thatcalibrates a man's nervous
system to weather the storm,even if you're not the person
(39:07):
that's leading it, just bywitnessing it and holding the
frame, whether it's the feet ora hand or back on one of the,
you know, hand on the back ofthe heart of another man as he
holds that that that kind of thestructural intelligence of a
process like that. It gives youan experience of, I can I can be
with this? Yes, those are thewords, like, can you be with
(39:30):
this? That's, that's it, man.
And it's not, I want to say,like, we make agreements. So
there are agreements in men'swork, but then there's, there's
rules. And one of the rules ofmen's work is, don't facilitate
men's work on women or on yourwoman. And that's not what we're
saying, right? Yes, yes. Not tofacilitate. It's actually to
grow our capacity. And someguys, even myself may have
(39:50):
gotten that twisted like, Oh,I'm here to learn how to do this
magic everywhere I walk. Andit's not.
The, you know, it's not aboutnecessarily the doing.
It's in that capacity to bewith. I think you nailed it.
(40:11):
Yeah, man, rather than justtrying to paint every situation
with the same brush, like, Okay,I've done a men's work process.
Now I'm gonna do that on my dadwhen I go home for Christmas.
I'm going to do that. I'm goingto do that my friend, when he
doesn't show up at the waves atthe right time and he's five
minutes late, I'm going to callan accountability Yeah Or Yeah.
What I've learned too, is like,yes, there are, there are some
(40:32):
actual structured processes thatare great in like an initiatory
experience or rites of passageexperience. But what actually
has helped me is learning how toask good questions, being really
attuned to my own curiosity. Sothat example you gave you know a
man with his father, it's not togo facilitate your dad. That's
never going to work, by the way.
But can you ask good questions?
(40:55):
And for me, when I was goingthrough a separation
with my son, Noah's mom, Iremember that was the moment
where I really was like, fuck,what was my dad going through?
You know? Like, I never asked aquestion. I had always, I'd
always been with my mom's storyof what happened, you know what?
(41:16):
I mean,that was the side of the story
that I heard, and I got reallycurious and and instead of,
instead of holding my curiosityto myself, I started asking
those questions, Dad, what wasgoing on for you? You know, when
I was one, when you guys areseparating, not in with
(41:38):
absolutely no judgment from afrom a place like, Hey, man, I'm
going through it. I am you. Youmade me What were you going
through? You know? Because Ineed to know. And that's, that's
the kind of thing that thismen's work unlocks. I feel like
a lot of us, we, we, we don'tonly suppress our emotions.
(42:00):
Which is, which is broadlyunderstood in terms of the men's
mental health stuff, yeah, likeeverybody's stuffing it down,
stuffing it down, but we alsostuff down our own curiosity.
And becoming curious, onceagain, is such an accelerator
to our own personal growth.
(42:20):
Yes, yes, yes. I found too thatI had,
early on I'd kind of put my dadfucked me up, he's the bad guy.
So the curiosity wasn't there.
And through the process of doingsome emotional work where I got
to see a little clearly, moreclear, clearly, and that
(42:40):
curiosity came online, I thenwas able to actually see the
gold, or ask questions like becurious, and learn that there
was gold in my lineage, that itwasn't just this bad thing that
I kind of break the chain, cutthem off, and it became this
whole New so for me, like theconcept of inner child work or
(43:01):
this healing the lineage becamenot necessarily about me doing
all the work and becoming theperfect person in the line of
the generations. More so it'slike, how do I actually have
compassion and want tounderstand and connect deeper
through receiving wisdomand unlocking that through my
(43:23):
questioning. And yeah, we would.
I've been super grateful. Thelast two years, my dad has come,
and He crews in the kitchen, andhe brings all of the stuff for
our men's retreat. So he comes,and he's a part of it, and he in
him being there, I'm starting tosee even more of the qualities,
and I'm getting to learn moreabout him, and the Curiosity has
(43:45):
just led to a deeper and deeperconnection and a deeper and
deeper understanding of, like,all of the value that he's given
me as well, which has beenbeautiful, because before, it
was just like, not he's hewasn't there for me, for this,
this, this and this. So I've gotto heal and do all the work
myself, so I don't do that withmy children.
And now I'm starting to see thatthat's, that's folly, man like
(44:06):
that. One's perfect,absolutely. And there's, you
know, there's, there's alwaysmultiple sides to any situation
or story. And it's important tobe curious about perspectives
and also to be courageous enoughto to ask the question in the
first place. You know, so manythings go unspoken because,
because we may, at times, lackcourage. So another thing that
(44:28):
this work does is it, it expandsour ability to, like, make the
courageous choice. You know, Iused to say, like, whenever you
have a choice, just do thecoolest thing, right? Just do
whatever is the coolest that'sthat's where I come from. But
now I'm like, do the mostcourageous thing, like when you
have a choice in your life,really, at your doorstep, you
(44:48):
know, on your plate,do the thing that requires the
most courageand see what happens that's.
Like a good place to operatefrom in my experience. And what
you bring up for me, too is thatthis work of sacred sons, I've
(45:10):
been cultivating, creatingevents,
traditions. And you know, we'rewe just completed our
convergence nine and so 2025, wewill have convergence. 10. This
is, for me, this is a bigmilestone. And for the
Brotherhood, it's a bigmilestone, and what it has
informed me of is to createtraditions in my own family.
(45:34):
It's not to bring my family tosacred sons, right? It is
beautiful that your dad's in thekitchen. Don't get me wrong,
that's that's quite beautiful,and it's in the in between,
like, what are the traditionsI'm creating in my home? What
are the annual gatherings ofmyself, my brother, his
children, my mother and father,and we've been cultivating that.
Like, that's a learnedexperience, because so many of
(45:54):
us, myself included, especiallyin in America, you know, we've
been cut off from the root ofour ancestry.
It's, it's real. You know, thisis an immigrant culture here
this, and they call that. Youcall it a an orphan culture. You
can call it a culturelessculture. And so men's work in
masculine alchemy has reallyinformed me to create the
(46:17):
traditions in my home. Andthat's like, that's, that's more
fulfilling than putting on anevent. I can just, I can say,
like, what I've done with mybrother every year. And this,
this came because I wasconstantly telling my brother,
you got to come to sweat lodge.
Got to come to sweat lodge, bro,I got too much going on. I you
know, he's got, my brother's gotfive children, you know, you got
to come to convergence. I madethis thing, you will love it,
(46:40):
and eventually he's just likeAdam, like, what if we just get
our families together, you know,like, what if we just do our own
convergence, if you will, right?
And that's, that's what, that'swhere the real gold has been as
a result of this work, notnecessarily to
(47:02):
to bring my family to the work,but to bring the work to my
family.
Man, yeah, that's just like,made me reflect on, like, the
traditions that we had in myfamily as a young a young child,
we had a camping trip everyEaster, and that was a tradition
where we all went to the sameriver, the same place on the
(47:22):
river, the nemoy River, fromwhere I'm where I'm from, and we
would all camp for four days.
Now, our cousins would come downfrom Brisbane, like an eight
hour drive. We'd have otherfriends. And over the course of
like, 10 years, we developedthis campsite, and we built
tables and we set everything up.
We had those beautiful,beautiful thing. And that
property got sold. And anyway,my dad made this beautiful, big,
(47:45):
hard, hardwood table out therethat was like the big long
table that we'd eat at. Yeah,big long picnic table. And
when that property got sold, hewent out and he got that that
table, and he he cut it up andhe made chopping boards for all
of the children that were partof the camping that that
(48:06):
tradition was like a closing ofthat tradition. And you've just
really seeded this idea of,like, Okay, what tradition can I
bring to my family? And startwith my my son, he's only just
here. How can I bring atradition in that starts in the
first year of his life, andstart to build on that and use
it as a way, like, hey, let's,let's create something here that
becomes a family tradition, thatkind of anchors us and brings us
(48:30):
back together every year. Thatsounds Yeah, I'm really loving
the idea, right? It's soimportant to have those anchors.
You know what I mean? One of thethings I do is every New Year's
Day, the first of the year, wedrive out to the desert. I'm
here in San Diego, so it's anhour drive to on to Borrego
Desert. It's beautifullandscape, but it's barren. It's
(48:50):
cold, you know, it's it'slacking in the ways of life,
although there's lizards andthings that my boys like. But to
have that, to know that on thefirst day of the year we're
going to go out to the desert,we're going to be out there in
the land, we're going to light afire, where it's going to be
together, away from all thenoise, away from all the
technology, and always startingthe year off with this.
(49:13):
It's because of the place thatwe're in. But like, culture is
rooted in place, right? Andit's, it's important to
acknowledge the lands that we'reon, not just in the ways of of
the you know, this is a Kumi, aterritory, but like, have, have
I actually broken bread withthose people? Have I actually
went and put my own prayers onthe land? Because that's what
(49:36):
matters. You know, it's not inthe words, it's in the action,
the learning is in theparticipation, like getting in
the game, not just talking aboutthe game. Men have done so much
of that shit, especially in, youknow, sports and like, we give
all of our energy to theseiconic superstars, as if we're,
as if, as if we're less than SoI'm encouraging brothers, get in
(49:59):
the game of your.
Life. Treat you a fan like befamous amongst your friends and
family. Treat your family as ifthey are the superstars and as
if they are the ones who deserveyour best and deserve your you
know, I don't know if you likerugby or soccer or whatever
you're into, but like or maybenothing but like. Can we
champion our our own children inthe ways that we do these people
(50:20):
that are not even, you know,connected to us, there's a shift
that I have made in that way inmy life that's and it's
significant.
Doesn't mean you can't watchsports. I love the UFC. I'm
about to watch Mike Tyson, JColin this weekend.
I love him. And yes, can I haveCan I can I keep that same
energy when it's me and my boysand I put the boxing gloves on
(50:42):
them, you know what? I mean, canI, can I, can I be in it with
just as much passion? Yeah, man,yes. I have this sort of thing
that I say to me. I was like,like, Why do we always have to
tell stories about Gods andgreat men when we're right here?
Why didn't Why don't we createthat and become that? And I have
a lot of young, boys are friendswith young boys in that sort of
(51:03):
seven, seven to 10 range, andthey, like you have the capacity
to like, be a, be a mentor forthese young men in your life.
And that for me, like I, I wear,I wear this sort of a cowboy
hat, and I bought a brand newone because I was like, I want a
new cowboy hat, and I want tokeep it,
(51:23):
because I've got a good one, andthen I've got my, like, my work
one. And anyway, this young,young, young boy, he's named Sue
me. He's a son of some of ourclose friends. He He came in and
he put it on, he put my cowboyhat on, and he was just walking
around with it, and I just, andhe's like, Can I have this? And
I was like, the part of me wasone to hold on to it, because I
(51:44):
wanted to, I wanted to sparejust in case. I was like, Nah,
man, you can have it. You canhave this hat. And, like, he
hasn't, you know, his mom'sring, um, told me, like he
hasn't taken it off. And I thinkwe have the capacity to to be,
to be real, like not, not to bechampions, or to be the, the
famous celebrity, but we havethe ability to influence and be
that pillar of ofof what's possible, and play
(52:06):
that role and have men ratherthan be told, tell rather than
tell you a story or watch it onthe TV like come out into the
yard and let's experience lifetogether. Let's light the fire,
let's climb the tree, let's putthe gloves on, let's run the
race, let's swim across thecreek. And I think we spoke a
little bit about that idea ofplay before in it. And I think
that, like, what I'm hearing islike, yeah, it's all well and
(52:28):
good to cheer on the big sportsstars, but if we can't, like, go
out and have our own adventuresand have our own experiences,
we're just sitting in the in thebleachers, we're just sitting on
the sideline. And that for me,like I always say, you know, see
you in the arena, because that'swhere I do my best work. Yeah,
the Man in the Arena,that's just it. And I feel like,
(52:50):
maybe those great men in thepast, you know, there was no
Doom scrolling for them. Therewas no opportunity not to be the
man in the arena. And we havelost aspects of that because of
the technological culture, theindustrialized system that we
were literally born into.
(53:10):
Andwe get to acknowledge it, but we
don't have to accept that as ourfate,
right? It's like, if we knowbetter, let's let's do something
about it, and and it's aboutsmall wins. I want to just
reiterate right here, becausewe, I can get a little big with
it, but it's like, man, it's inthe mundane. The magic is in the
mundane. It's in the theeveryday situations, like where
(53:34):
Johan, he had that fuckingstomach ache, man, and we were
for a minute Hannah's like, youneed to take him to the ER, you
know, like, I don't know whatthis is, and I'm like, not so
much for that, but, but I'mlike, let me just sit with them.
Let me have them drink somewater. Let me rub his belly, let
me sing him a song. You know,can I just do what I do and see
(53:55):
if we can get through this? Andit did. It passed, you know, he
was able to to move through thepain, just with just with my
presence and in US rallyingaround him like everything
doesn't have to be medicalizedand industrialized here sat in
any type of ceremony, like ourbodies are so intelligent, even
(54:18):
when It's hard, even whensickness comes, like maybe that
fever is burning off somethingthat needs to be burnt off. And
so what is our capacity asparents, as guardians, to once
again, be with it,not to outsource because a
doctor, you know what's funny,and even Johan was like, Daddy,
(54:39):
should we go the doctor? And I'mlike, I'm like, I'm, I'm Doctor
daddy. Now, like, like, come on.
Like, I got tools too. I got a Igot a whole medicine cabinet
too. Like, yes, and don't get mewrong, I'm for doctors. They
provide all kinds of incrediblethings, especially in the form
(54:59):
of.
Like traumatic injuries andthings like that.
And we're we are much moreequipped than we give ourselves
credit for. Actually, we're moreequipped than the what's called
the system gives us credit for.
Once we're embodied, once wetake ownership.
Man, that and like that justcomes back to, can I be with
(55:22):
this? Is like, Am I willing tobe responsible and take
responsibility and ownership andbe like, cool, I I don't need to
run and give that myresponsibility away to us, to
someone who's got a pill or or amedicine that that's going to
take this away from the personmyself or my family member.
Because, once again, that, likeyou said, that fever might be
(55:43):
burning something off thisstomach ache might be, you know,
deepening something here, likeit's and it's not to say that,
like you said, and I totallyagree that the medical system is
there for very specific set ofreasons. For me, personally, I
don't engage with it otherwise,unless it's something a massive
emergency, but in those moments,very diplomatic, very
(56:05):
diplomatic,but I'm the same. I'm like, Oh,
this is my responsibility. AndI've had like, different types
of injuries and different typesof sicknesses where I'm like,
this is actually, even when Igot COVID, it was almost like I
was like, this is kind of like acollective purge. And like all
of our friends, got it at thesame time, and we I was like,
literally just in bed, justalmost hallucinating and
(56:26):
sweating. I was like, this is,this is this is asking me to
slow down. It's asking me tostop. This has asked me to be
with it. And I think that that'ssomething that, through my
ceremony journeys, has taught methat don't run from this. Don't
outsource your power. Don't rushoff and give your control away
to someone who's just going tomake life more comfortable. Be
(56:47):
with the discomfort. Be with thepart of you that isn't too sure
what to do and trust and ask forsupport. Call on your like, pick
up your heart. History tools,Jacob, trust, and that's been a
hugeand I feel that's going to be a
huge lesson for me as as oceancontinues to grow, and I get to
put all of those things intopractice in a much deeper way.
(57:08):
Yeah, and on the other side,when,
when reservoirs are full, whenresources are plenty, can we be
that friend that shows up withthe chicken soup that shows up
with, you know, the whatever itis that that that wants to be
provided. And we were, we werekind of talking about this just
(57:31):
a moment ago, but there's asense of men as provider. But
really,prosperity comes in more forms
than just money, right? It'sjust, it's a reality I work
with. So I've, I have workedwith so many men who have come
into the pitfall, have giventheir children everything they
wanted in the form of, you know,toys and memes and money, but
(57:54):
lacked actual presence. And sothe prosperity can't truly be
there unless the presence of theFather is is home, you know, and
not and not 24/7 like we were onmissions here, you know, I mean,
and in this case, you and I, itseems like we have a shared
mission, shared vision, sharedvalues, that we're working
(58:17):
towards and deepeningcollectively.
But the prosperity is going tocome from our presence as well
as the ability to put food onthe table.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah,man, the dinner table is kind of
the altar of the of the home.
That's the way I see. It's like,yeah, you can put food on the
table, but if you're not thereto share, share it with your
family. Can there's somethingmissing,
(58:41):
which is, like, really, reallyimportant for me. That's
something that I'm I listened toone of the podcasts with Vince
matoska, yeah, one of the liveones. And I think he, he read a
poem about how, like, men haveto go away, they have to go on
adventure, have to go and dotheir work, but they also have
to know when to come home. And Ithink that's the wrestle, like,
I work with a lot of guys thatthink they have to always be
(59:03):
like, it's about the quantity oftheir their time with their
family, rather than the quality.
And for me, it's like, you needto be when you're with your
family, be be with your family.
But when the when the vision andthe adventure calls, be with
that and know how to navigateand hold the tension of the two,
the paradox, which is, I'm a manon a mission, and I'm a man here
(59:26):
to be deeply present and stewardin this, this next generation,
and be with my woman, and bewith the garden and make sure
that the dishes are washed. Andthat's just as important as
taking this man through theprocess and changing his life.
And those nappies need to bechanged, man,
dude, we got to get our handsdirty building bridges to the
new earth, even when we changethe diapers. You call them
(59:48):
nappies? Yeah, we call themnappies. And I have failed at
this many, many times. One timeI went to an event and I didn't
have my car. Here in the States,we have car registry.
Shouldn't like your licenseplates. And Hannah, like,
halfway through this event, I'mout on some island in British
Columbia, leading men, and she'sgetting pulled over because I
(01:00:09):
didn't fucking take care of thetags. It's like, what the fuck
you know? And I like processthat process that in front of
the men, like, Hey, I know youguys. Like, I'm, I'm leading
this thing here. I'm, I'm cocreating this thing here, but
I'm also fucking up, and we getthe opportunity to own that
shit. You know what I'm saying?
Like, I just want to bring somehumility to it, like I'm gearing
(01:00:30):
up for a prime leadership thisweekend. It's here in San Diego.
We have 30 men coming from allaround the world to train, and
yeah, I'm out here today andtomorrow, making sure everything
is sorted, so that while I'mgone, my presence is still felt
in the preparation.
There's a difference between,like, readiness, which is
(01:00:51):
subjective, and the preparationthat it actually takes to do
something like go off on, onthese adventures, on these rites
of passage weekends and so likethat, that that idea of
preparation is is so important,yeah. And that, for me, is kind
of one of the things of like,when, when I look at masculine
energy, is like a consciousnessfeel, it's like, cool. I'm
(01:01:14):
conscious of what my home needswhilst I'm away. I'm actually
holding that field. I'm being orI'm having that level of
awareness, rather than beinglike, I'm going to this retreat.
I'm just going to completelyremove myself. It's okay. I've
tended to this place that is,that I will return to, which is,
um, which is, you know, as asmen, if any men are listening to
that have that drive or thatvision to go out and serve in
(01:01:35):
whatever industry you're in,it's like, remember that that
industry is there, and you willcome home to to a home, and that
home will, you know, most likelyhave, you know, all the things
that you care about. And that'sthe thing that, um, that I'm
conscious, like, very conscious,of these days with this, this
young man in my house, thislittle baby, it's like, yeah, go
(01:01:55):
do the work. But remember thatyou when the work is done you
this, there's, there's a homethat you return to, and what
does that home need from you? Soyou're not constantly in this
pendulum swing of trying to lookafter the home, trying to manage
the the big the big vision, and,um, that's going to be a like
you said, the humility is goingto it's going to be a humble a
(01:02:17):
humbling path, I'm sure, yeah,any good woman will, will humble
us right off of any pedestal wewe get placed upon. You know
what I mean? Like, I get humbledall the time, and
I, I choose to be good with it.
I choose to learn, versus to toresist and and I'm, I'm
constantly learning. I'mconstantly checking in with my
(01:02:41):
curiosity. And it's cool that wecan talk about this, because,
you know, we have a sharedexperience here too, that we
understand. But broadly for men,I just want to, I want to say
there's so many men that don'thave close friendships, and
sometimes even if you, if youhave, like, good friends, it's
like, Man, how deep do youreally go? How well do you
actually even know them? Or orwhat's, what's alive for them?
(01:03:03):
And so if you, if you havesomeone who doesn't have that as
a resource, like a circle ofmen, come out to these events.
You know, step into aconvergence, step into a
gathering of men. Sacred sons,has a couple of immersions come
into Australia, join thosecircles. There are really
incredible fathers, leaders,facilitators. You know,
(01:03:27):
everybody's a breath workpractitioner these days, but
this is so much more than that,and especially if you think that
you've done a lot of work,because, man, that's what I
hear. I've done so much work.
Great. You're in the rightplace, because there's more work
to do.
This circle has no beginning orend, man.
(01:03:50):
Man, hey, thank you so much.
This has been like, you know,I've followed you guys for
pretty much from the start of myjourney, and I really appreciate
you giving your time and energyto this conversation, man, and
it feels really beautiful toconnect with you. I've got a
brother, Benny. He's gonna he'son. He's in America now. He's
heading to prime leadership. Icame to emX earlier this year,
had an incredible experience,and it only deepened my desire
(01:04:13):
to continue to do the work thatI do, and support the work that
all of these differentfacilitators and these different
movements are doing so man, likefor me, this is like we're all
doing the work alongside eachother, and we're all going to
rise together. So thank you somuch. We've got
two, two events happening forSacred sons. There's one in WA
(01:04:36):
what dates are those ones again?
Yes, I want to shout out ourbrother, Ryan Rowlands will be
leading immersion in Perth,Australia, November 30 through
December 1. And then also wewill be in Byron Bay, New South
Wales. Yes, yes, in December, 7and eighth. And these immersions
are designed so you don't haveto go camping in the wilderness.
(01:05:00):
For four days. It's not as muchof a time investment. You can
sleep in the comfort of your ownhouse, but come out for the day,
do some deep work within thosetwo days. It's enough time
truly, with the modalities, withthe practices we have, and with
these men who have been trainingin this work for years, it's
enough time to really get, youknow, an immersive experience.
(01:05:22):
That's why we call it the theimmersion.
And, you know, some guys have athere's a barrier of entry, if,
if you're going out into thewilderness for a true rites of
passage, however, coming out foran immersion, it's like, it's,
it's less of a risk, man. So ifyou're listening to this. If
you've gotten this far, pleaseconsider this your invitation to
(01:05:45):
join sacred sons immersion. Joina gathering of men. You know, I
like to also just acknowledgethere are no teams in men's
work. There is one team, andthat is the evolution of
masculine consciousness on thisplanet. Get in the game.
I Goodman. Thank you so much, guys.
(01:06:07):
I'll put all the links downbelow in the show notes, once
again, brother, thank you somuch. Big Love to you and your
fam guys. We'll see you nextweek.
Yo, yo, yo. Thank you so muchfor tuning in to another episode
of sex, love and everything inbetween. Now, if you'd like to
(01:06:28):
stay connected with Meg and I,you can head on over to
Instagram and follow me at theJacob O'Neal and where can
people find you lover, at thedot. Meg, dot. O amazing. And
yeah, guys, check out the shownotes for all other information
in regards to what we've gotcoming up. And yeah, we're
super, super grateful that youguys for taking the time to
(01:06:50):
listen in to this podcast. Ifyou do have any topics or any
questions like I said, hit us upon Instagram, and we'll see what
we can do. Apart from that, havea beautiful, beautiful rest of
your day. Thanks for being here.
Big, big love you.
Um, yeah, these moments ofinitiation into what it means to
be human, when we when we allowourselves to remove the mask.
You know, this is a big part ofmen's work. Like take off the
mask that you that you can do itall on your own, that you got it
all together, you know, all thethings. Or take off the mask,
that you believe you're notenough. Take off the mask, that
you can't do it, that you're notdoing it right? You know these,
(00:22):
these are the type of thingsthat you know go on inside the
minds of men as as I've seen it,and when we take that mask off,
we get back to the essence ofwho we are and what we're here
to do in this lifetime.
Yo, yo, yo. Lovers. Welcome,welcome. Welcome to sex, love
(00:45):
and everything in between wherethe O'Neills you're here with
Megan Jacob, and this is theplace we have really uncensored
conversations about sex,intimacy and relationships.
We're super excited you're here.
Enjoy this episode. Youyo, yo. Lovers, hello, hello,
hello. Welcome to anotherepisode of sex, love and
(01:08):
everything in between. And Megis currently out taking our
beautiful son, oshin, for awalk, and I'm here having a
conversation with a man that'sdeeply inspired me and my
journey with men's work. Andyeah, we've got Adam Jackson
here. He's the co founder ofsacred sons. He hosts the sacred
sons podcast. And yeah, this hasbeen something
(01:32):
that I've wanted to reach outand make happen. And all year
I've been trying to reach out.
And I'll be like, Oh, I'll sendthe email now. I'll send the
email now, and I can nowunderstand like I had to go
through the birth portal. I hadto become a father to really
arrive here on this call withyou, bro. To I believe, like,
get as much value as I can, butalso really share some some
(01:53):
deeper truths with with ouraudience, man. So thank you so
much for taking the time to bewith us today.
Yeah, Jacob, thank you forinviting me. Thank you for
keeping me in your thoughts. Andcongratulations on the birth of
your little baby, ocean,33 days, 33 days of life. How
(02:13):
precious and what a beautifulceremony. Just before we started
recording, you were telling me alittle bit about the birth, and
I have a daughter, Winona, who's10 months so I have four
children. My oldest is 10 yearsold, and my youngest is 10
months old. So I am just as muchof a new dad as as what you're
(02:35):
stepping into as well. So Ireally feel you on that journey.
And congratulations to you andyour family.
Amazing man. Thank you so much.
And yeah, hearing that like, I'mthe eldest of four children
myself, and I grew up in thecountry with siblings and just
nature. And for me, that's theit's so amazing. What's come
(02:55):
online since Oh Sheen hasarrived. It's like, oh, I want
space. Ah, I want family. Ah,all of a sudden, my time is
sacred. Now, Netflix gone,scrolling gone. These things are
no longer valid. They no longerhold priority, or these
distractions are no longer havehave as much of a hold on me
(03:16):
because there's someone watchingme, there is someone that that
really is not that needs me atthe moment, but will need
someone to look to, to model howto move through this world. And
it's been a massive it's been abeautiful, beautiful wake up for
me like a another layer. And aswe were talking before this idea
(03:37):
of a ceremony, the birthceremony. It really feels like
that was a wonderful experience.
And now there's this kind ofongoing ceremony of like, how,
how am I moving today? How am Ifeeling today? And what is, what
is my intention?
And that has this whole newdepth of meaning, because ocean
is like laying in the bed nextto me, and his eyes are looking
(03:59):
at me. I'm like, Oh, this is notjust about me anymore.
Yeah. And how powerful for us asfathers to be a part of the
ceremony of birth. You know, Ifeel like there's so much
in the in the spiritualcommunity here. There's so much
attention given to the plantmedicines, which I revere and
(04:20):
honor, or to even the men'swork, or whatever modality you
choose, the morning ice bath. Ibelieve that all ceremonies are
trying to get back to that onesingular moment when we first
crossed the portal into thislife and as a father to be
present, not only for the birthof the child, but for the for
the mother to be justsupportive, to be encouraging,
(04:45):
to be acknowledging it's enough,and if more men could have that
experience of full presence astheir children come into this
world, just that alone, wouldmake this world a better place.
Oh, man, yeah.
You're speaking my language. Ireally what, what just like the
words that were coming was like,I'm not going anywhere, like I'm
(05:07):
not going to run, I'm not goingto hide, I'm not going to let
someone else step in and playthe role that I was. I'm here to
play for you, that I'm here toembody, that I'm here, that I'm
that is my sacred duty to you asmy woman, and that is that that
is really, really landed for meduring the birth. It's like I I
was meant, I'm meant to be here.
I'm meant to be standingalongside you, and so you have a
(05:28):
lived recent experience to giveyou that motivation not to run,
but to stay, to be the mountain,to be the pillar, to be the safe
space,you know, to be a force of of
generosity, evenWell, not all men have that. Not
(05:48):
all men have a lived experienceto inform them. So how do we get
and it's not, it's not to say wedon't have trials and
tribulations in life thatencourage us to move on, right?
However, like, family is sacred,you know, the the idea, like, I
have been someone who has ranin my life. You know what I'm
(06:13):
saying? Like, I know the sense.
I know the I know the urge to,like, I'm out of here. I'm done.
I can't sit in this. And so howdo we as men create those
experiences for ourselves to notonly to test us, but to give us
the the the amount of capacity,emotional capacity, to stay and
(06:36):
I believe that's what men's workdoes, you know? And I, I'm
curious about your experience.
You know, you joined sacred sonswhen we were in Australia last
year, yeah, man, it wasphenomenal. I
I was blessed to to have Carlyas my as the leader of the the
group that I was a part of. AndI had, I had just an incredible
(06:56):
experience, man, like I hadalways seen what you men were
creating over in in America, andI was like, this is this speaks
to me, because there's aceremonial aspect to this. There
is a cultural aspect to this,and there is a reverence for the
natural world that speaks to meand for my my journey. Just to
(07:18):
put into a sentence, it's like,it's been through the plants,
deep reverence for the plants.
Man like that has been that hasbeen how I found my way home.
And thenI realized I looked around, I
was amazing women doing the workaround me. And I was like, ah,
there's one thing missing here,and it's the men. It's my
brothers. So that's where men'swork came in for me, and it was
(07:40):
really the it landed a lot ofthe things that the plants
revealed and gave me a place tomove through the world, where I
could actually, like, have somereally solid mirrors and some
really solidmoments of of of breakthrough,
because I was around men, yeah,yeah. And my experience that I
had, I had a beautiful,beautiful experience at Sacred
(08:04):
suns, and the way that the Kaliled the group that I was in, and
the energy and the thecongruence and the way that the
team moved together, was abeautiful experience for me, man
and I had, I actually had ahuge, huge healing in that space
around something that I thoughtI dealt with, and it was like a
new layer that had to that hadto be peeled fast, had to be
(08:27):
peeled back. Yes, but there'ssomething about the power and
the sacredness of the collectivewitness of other men. I
just want to say Kali is thebest prayers up for my brother
CO at this time. And yeah,that's what in the beginning,
(08:47):
when we were conjuring up thisthing we call sacred sons.
That's what we saw. Was missingbroadly from this work. I saw
men's circles as 50 year oldwhite guys sitting around in
fold out chairs underfluorescent lights,
talking about how much theirsituation sucked, or how much,
you know, debt they were in. Andthere's more. There's more. When
(09:12):
we have been unlocked by theplants, and I see this work when
with the collective witness ofmen, with the circle, this is
ancient. This stuff is in ourbones. It's in our DNA. And so
when we circle up with othermen, it's a it's an incredible
opportunity to integrate thosebig blast off experiences which
are largely individual. And soI've had my own experiences with
(09:36):
Ayahuasca, where it was soprofound, but it was, it was my
own.
It's a dream within this dreamof life. But what you're
speaking to when you had thisbreakthrough had, you know, to
be held, supported and witnessedby others. It grounds in the
capacity that we have to heal.
Mm.
(10:00):
Yes,I, I resonate. That is exactly,
if it's to be witnessed, becauseI've had so many deep moments on
the mountain with, you know,with, with Ayahuasca, with and
San Pedro has been my mymedicine, and my teacher for
like, eight years, like, watchfuma. It's, it's constantly, and
once, once it's it's once Iworked with that medicine, I
(10:23):
learned that, ah, that medicineis working with me and I'm
working with it. And this is arelationship. I then saw the
value in awe. So when I go towork with men, I'm working with
men, and men are working withme. It's not just me having the
experience, it's them witnessingme having the experience that
act that deepens and grounds inthe healing or the the
(10:43):
embodiment that takes place inthose spaces.
Yeah, I don't. I agree with youthat relationship, and I feel,
you know, grandma, workingthrough me. I feel the the fire
tending working through me. Wewere talking about sweat lodge
earlier too. Like sweat lodgewas the experience that really
(11:05):
got my feet on the path, youknow, I had, I found a sweat
lodge.
How long it's probably 13 yearsago now.
I was coming out of a bigbreakup in my life. You know, we
had a house together, we had adog, we owned a business
together, and it was, it was areally challenging moment in my
(11:26):
life, and a good friend invitedme up the mountain to go to
sweat. And so I got up there,and we're sitting in circles. Is
the first time I ever sat in acircle like with intention to
share what was going on in mylife and
the man pouring Lodge, his nameis Daniel thunder Hawk moon. I
still sit with him to this day,shout out to the moon family.
(11:49):
And as it came around to me, hesaid, Why are you here?
Which is a question I now askevery man that I come into
contact with. And I, you know, Iwas filled with resentment man
of this breakup. And I said, youknow, she did this, she did
that.
You know she left.
And he just looked at me andsaid, Do you know what all of
(12:11):
your relationships have incommon?
You are in all of them.
And this was the first time aman had looked at me dead in my
eyes and given me an honestreflection,
not to tell me it's going to beokay, not to appease my
judgments of the situation,right, but to like, look me dead
(12:34):
in my eyes and into my heart andsay, Hey, man, take ownership
for this. Take ownership of yourpart. And I would say that began
my mentor journey. Not that itwas, it was a co Ed space and
everything, but I was like, Holyshit, I need a mentor, you know,
like, I could, I could use some,I could use some feedback from
other human beings. I don't gotit all. I don't got it all
(12:55):
figured out, you know what Imean? And it's okay. It's okay
men to admit that. Like, wedon't have it all, and we've
been sold a lie, and that lie isthat you have to do it all on
that you have to do it all onyour own, and if you ask for
help, it's weakness,if you don't have the answer to
lie. And that is fuckingbullshit.
(13:17):
And so what? What men's workalso does
nothing hides. Nothing hides inthese circles, you know, and
even the things that you don'teven know are there. You thought
you did all the work with theplants, and then you're like,
Whoa, the work is never done, myfriend. And there's something
that's that is very sacred aboutmen doing this together. And,
(13:38):
you know, I found it to be sopowerful that I've taken it on
as a part of my life's work andmission, and to bring this to
other men, and,you know, to to bring presence
to these things that I'mspeaking of. And you know,
globally, there's a lot ofconversation around men's mental
health. People are not doingwell. This is a wild fucking
(13:59):
time right now. It truly is. Ittruly is. And so
just like where you're at withyour family, what you will find
out, and what I have found out,even though you're willing to
stand in and stay it still takesa village. It takes community.
Moms need support from other.
Mothers, fathers need to connectwith each other and be real and
(14:22):
talk about what's going on. Thisis the way forward. It's not
about suppressing. It's nolonger about medicating. It's no
longer about numbing.
This is the old way and the newway. It's about really
expressing ourselves from aplace of vulnerability and truth
and honesty and getting real.
And I found that to be the mostpowerful medicine on the planet.
(14:52):
Yeah, I, I concur. Man, I don'thave much more to add to that,
other than, like, that's beenthe receiving I believe.
Is one of the hardest thingsthat I've had to remember to do
that fierce independence andthat I don't need anything, but
I'm willing to give everything.
And this was something,something that I learned on a
bridge in Peru.
(15:15):
I was going through a huge, ahuge sort of meltdown. On the
first journey, we went to aYeah, wonderful, wonderful
sacred site, and I was walking,and I was just started crying,
and I was purging, and I waslike, I'm just so sick of trying
to, trying to hold it alltogether. And we stood on this
(15:37):
bridge, and we looked down theriver, and the river was flowing
away from us. And my mentor atthe time, Gemma, she said, just
let the river take it all. Letit take it all. And I just stood
there, and I could just feel allof this weight, of the of
response, of this responsibilitythat I took thinking that it was
mine, when it really wasn't forI had to look after this person.
(15:59):
I had to be this for thisperson. I had to be this. And it
was this constant shape shiftingto be everything for everyone.
And I was letting it go. And Ithought that was the end of us,
like, all right, I feel lightnow. She's like, No, turn
around, andwe turn around, and the river
started rushing towards us, andshe's like, now, receive all
that you deserve. And thatcompletely and utterly rocked
me,because the letting go, I was
(16:22):
like, Oh yeah, I've got to, I'vegot to, you know, let go of the
baggage, or I've got to kill theboy to become the man. All of
these terminology of like,healing and fixing myself was so
intoxicating, but then to turnaround and actually feel
pleasure and feel joy andactually have my desires met.
(16:43):
That was what really opened meup to the idea of, like, Oh my
God, there's so much more herethan I could have ever imagined.
Yeah, yeah, these moments ofinitiation into what it means to
be human when we when we allowourselves to remove the mask.
You know, this is a big part ofmen's work, like take off the
(17:03):
mask that you that you can do itall on your own, that you got it
all together, you know, all thethings. Or take off the mask,
that you believe you're notenough. Take off the mask, that
you can't do it, that you're notdoing it right. You know, these,
these are the type of thingsthat you know go on inside the
minds of men, as as I've seenit, and when we take that mask
off, we get back to the essenceof who we are and what we're
(17:28):
here to do in this lifetime.
And it seems like when youstarted to receive from that
river, maybe life started toprovide a little bit more
sustenance and nourishment yourway and to the point where, here
you are with a beloved and witha child 33 days in, yeah, man,
and that, you know, that waswhat I realized, was I was,
(17:50):
I wasn't honoring the, you know,the guiding principle which we
learned in in Peru, which wasAyni, which is sacred
reciprocity, that nothing goesone way, giving and receiving,
receiving and giving when we'redoing it in alignment. That is
when you give, you receive, andwhen you receive, you give. And
that blew my mind. And then toactually
(18:12):
step into a space where I couldreceive, and like ask for help
and support I'veand like to be 33 days in, and I
only just cooked the first meal.
Wow, last night. You got sometribe over there. The meal
trains happening, dude, the mealtrains was, it was at the
(18:32):
station every day. So, like,man. Like, that's like, I, I
couldn't figure it out, becauseI need to go to the markets. I
need to go buy food. I've gotall this, I have, I have all
this stuff to do, and then I hadnothing to do because I had my
community. And the other part,which I'd love to just quickly
share with you, is that I run a,I run a large men's retreat
(18:53):
called the gathering of men, andit's a, it's an annual retreat
where we bring all the differentcommunities together, and we had
200 men on the landjust one month ago,
and I organized that. And I'mthis, I'm the, I'm the founder
of this, this, this movement.
And I didn't go because, oh,Sheen was born. The Meg's labor
started as the opening ceremonybegan.
(19:19):
How powerful. And he was bornthat evening, and I missed from
from Friday to Monday, I was athome with my family, while the
men that I trust and that Icalled in for my support, they
ran it like seamlessly, and itwas the best one we've done, and
I wasn't there. And that for mewas the this feels like a it was
(19:40):
a solidification of my myreceivership and my trusting in
other men. Wow. So that was ahuge and it's been such a
beautiful thing to be connectingwith these men now a couple of
weeks later, and hearing theirtheir stories from from the
experience that they had, and toknow.
That this was not just, it's notjust the Jacob O'Neill show or
(20:03):
I'm not the savior or the guru.
And that's what I loved aboutsacred sons, that there was no
one face to the brand. It was a,it was a circle. It was a it was
a brotherhood, it was acollective. And that's really
what this year felt like. Itfelt like I stepped away from
needing to be that the guy, andI let the circle really hold
form, and I got to receiveexactly what I needed, which was
(20:25):
space to be with my family,which is,
which was the kind of thinglike,
I didn't want to run for myresponsibility at home, but I
also want to have an impact inthe world.
I also want to have what, whatgreater responsibility Could
there have been for you to showup? Like, how this is like, a a
(20:47):
message for all of thosebrothers who you've gathered.
It's like, hey, when I have youknow this, this calling, this
responsibility, like, this ishow I show up. And I think,
yeah, man, I've gone through thethe same type of surrendering,
leaning into trust, trusting mento run events. We have events
(21:09):
around the world with men thatwe've trained and trained with.
But sacred sun started withthree of us, so we already
started as a triad and into acircle. There's enough of those
guys out there who are the guruor the dude, you know, enough of
that. There's plenty of coachesyou can go do that anywhere. And
there is something that'sincredibly powerful when a
(21:31):
circle of men come together,when we acknowledge each other's
gifts andand CO create, you know, from
that place, I think that'sthere's something that really
shifts from men that I see whenwe come together, not in
competition, but incollaboration. It activates a
new type of being within us.
(21:51):
And, you know, I could justshare. I wanted to say two
things when my son Holland wasborn,
the sacred sons brothers, as Ihad a meal train, they also made
my one of our chefs put togethera cookbook for me, which was
just a crock pot cookbook. So itwas like, different crock pot
recipes, because I, you know,having the postpartum meals
(22:12):
going. And so my brothers, theyshowed up. I'm not the greatest
Cook. I'm eggs, bacon, pancakes,you know, the whole things, but
at that time, it wasn't thatgreat. And they brought me all
these recipes, and I was like,fuck yeah, man. Like, let me,
let me get my got my crock potskills on. And I just love, I
love the creativity that cancome along with these things.
But at our first, at our firstsacred son's convergence, like I
(22:35):
said, there was three of us whoorganized and co founded it, but
it was, it was still an elementof like, wow, we have close to
100 guys here. How are we goingto pull all this together? And
what I noticed immediately, asthe men started showing up, how
can I help? What do you need meto do? I got two good hands.
Where can I put them? Where canI put myself to good use? And I
was like, oh, oh, yeah. Theseare men. They want to
(22:57):
contribute. They want to help.
And and it's like the smile thatyou have in your face lets me
know that you know this, like,the true nature of men is to be
of service. This is somethingthat doesn't get spoken enough
about, because I think the focusis put on providership, you
know, like, Oh, you gotta, yougotta do it. You gotta provide.
Yes, and when we are, when weare able and put in situations
(23:20):
to be of service to somethingthat we believe in, it also,
it's, it's also a part of thehealing experience, you know
what I mean? And so, yeah, it'sanother part of the reason I
like working with men.
There's, there's, there's littlenuance there that I think people
outside of this type of work maynot even realize is there,
(23:46):
man, my favorite, one of myfavorite
moments from last year's eventthat we had is, like, on day
three, when you look over andthere's, like, way too many
people in the kitchen helping,like, everyone's chocolate
parrots, like other guys arerunning water. These guys are
doing this. Other guys, and I'mjust looking over like, wow,
they're like this. This energyis really an energy of service.
(24:09):
Like, how can we come togetherand do this together? And I have
a memory ofof childhood. I remember we had
a big family barbecue, and wehad heaps of people there, and
then it was the boys turned todo the cleaning. We had its
cousins and sisters, and then Ihad brothers and cousins. And
(24:29):
when the sometimes the boyswould do the cleanup, sometimes
the girls would do the cleanup.
But anyway, I was the oldest,and we're doing the cleanup.
There's only three of us boysthere, my little brother Ryan,
who just recently came to hisfirst men's retreat, which was
great. And then my cousin Wyattand I remember, like, we had to,
we, like we were, we were like,Oh, we've got to do the cleanup.
(24:50):
But then we turned it into thiswhole extraction mission, and we
created this whole imaginaryworld of like, All right, we've
got to get these trays up to thesafest.
And we literally, like, we wereliterally, like, created a whole
and it became this, like,amazing experience. And we still
laugh, because, like, Man, thatwas such a fun time. And we were
washing dishes, but we're doingit together, and we're being of
(25:13):
service to the family. I just Itbrings tears to my eyes,
because, like, that was, like,that was, that's such a strong
memory. And we were, what, like,if you look at the task, what we
were doing was washing up andcleaning, but it was the it was
the feeling of service and theway that we created fun and play
around it. And for me, that'sthe nuance of men's work. Is
(25:33):
like when the when it, when itreaches that tipping point where
everything becomes just magicand the synchronicity just
flows. Yeah, I love that. And,you know, I'm raising boys. I
have three sons, and myyoungest, Winona, and yeah, with
the boys, we make everythinginto a challenge. We make
everything fun. And chores don'thave to be like, Hey, you gotta
(25:57):
do this before the fun starts. Ilike to be like, you know, who
can pick up all the toys thefastest go if you, if you give,
there is a bit of competition,I'll be real, but if you give a
little bit of the encouragementof play along with the chores,
all of a sudden, like, itdoesn't matter what we're doing.
We as men, you know why we haveall these sports globally?
(26:19):
Because we fucking make upgames. We like to make up games.
It's no secret, I think, even inindigenous culture, when the
food is in abundance, wheneverything is tended to, men,
tend to go and gamble or creategames or create like these other
worlds of competition. And so inraising boys, I'm kind of
(26:42):
unlocking these codes of how to,how to do that in a good way
with my own children, you know.
And it oftentimes looks like abit of like, hey, 100 points, if
you can, you know, do thisrandom thing, whether it's
taking out the trash or pickingup all the toys. This is, this
is a pretty common thing everyday, picking stuff up.
(27:04):
I'm like, yeah, it's a lot ofpicking up, but you know, that's
that's a special energy, andwe're not trained in these
relational ways as men. In myexperience of education, it had
to do a lot with memorization,with regurgitation of
information, and not so muchrelationship
(27:26):
and and I think there's a newlevel of education that's
possible here. And it doesn'tlook like sitting down, eyes
forward, being quiet. It lookslike being in our bodies. It
looks like challengingconfrontation. It looks like
wild celebration. And these arethe parts of men's work that
really light me up. You know,when we we can be in the
(27:48):
wildness of our full expressionas a human on this beautiful
planet that we're on, and wecan, we can be humble. We can be
close to the ground. We can crytogether, we can pray together,
you know. And in my experience,there wasn't a lot of room for
(28:10):
that. You know, I was raisedCatholic. I went to Catholic
school. They told me when thekneel, when to stand.
You know, I got in loads oftrouble because I was always
talking or drawing on my desk orwhatever I was doing. And
there's more all that to say.
There's more. And as a father,I'm I'm in deep in R and D,
trying to feel it out, trying toreally understand,
(28:35):
how do we raise strong men outof these young boys? Right?
Because this is another placewhere I see society, society,
the education system, whateverthat is, the previous generation
has kind of failed us, or atleast, at the very least, set us
up for failure. You know thedream of the initiation being
getting your driver's license,being able to drink this or
(28:59):
that, smoke this or that, andthat's, that's the initiation.
Then you go to college, then youthen you move on to a
relationship, you get the job,you get the girl, whatever
that's that is. I have seen thatas a dead end pathway,
and a lot of men areunfulfilled, chasing this
(29:21):
manufactured reality, and mymessaging in this way, is just
to let brothers know that thereis so much more to life, and
there is so much more to you.
Boom, we're back.
All right, I just want to sayit's, it's, it's ironic, but
(29:45):
it's also the realist of thereal. We're talking about the
roles of the Father, and just aswe're talking about it, you
know, real life is happening forme, my son, Johan, got hit with
a really harsh stomach bug. So.
And simultaneously, as I, as Itold you, my other son, Holland,
crapped his pants at the sametime, and his mom's like, Hey, I
(30:09):
don't know what you got going onthere, but I need you now. And
this is, this is the role of thefather, despite what's happening
around us, despite the chaosthat is swirling Can we, can we
be centered,be the mountain, and can we
prioritize our families? And Ithink I feel like for both of
us, prioritizing our homes, ourfamilies, our beloveds, it has
(30:34):
to be at the core of of thiswork,
100% man. And like you said, itwas just quite it was just so
beautiful that that was thething that happened right in the
middle of the podcast. It waslike, Oh, we're talking about
the sacred role of man and howwe do the work for our families.
And then it's literally in themiddle of the podcast, you get
called to embody that. And whatI loved was like, for me, I was
(30:58):
like, of course, there was nolike, oh, Adam's running away
from me. Or there's no Oh, thisisn't important to him. And the
beautiful thing, man, I justwant to honor you, was that your
communication immediatelyafterwards, okay, I want to pick
this up and complete this. Therewasn't like, just like, Oh,
we're not going to get to do it.
There was communication. Andthere was a level of like, hey,
let's get this done, and I'mstill going to show up and
(31:18):
complete this, this interview,and that, for me, was such a
beautiful experience. And itit's showing me, because
yesterday I had one of thosedays where, oh, Sheen just
didn't want to, you know, playto the schedule that I had for
my day. I had a full day of workplanned, and I did one thing. I
had a list of 10, and he neededme, and my wife needed me, and I
(31:40):
thought about you and you beingcalled to honor, you know, your
role. And it was like, Yes. Iwas like, This is what I'm here
to do. But if I can't do this,then what is the actual value of
the work that I'm that I'mbringing to the world in the
men's work space, if I can't doit in my own home? Yes. And that
brings to me the value of men'swork, you know, it's structure
(32:04):
and flow, and so, you know, I'malso just getting off a call
with a few brothers and sacredsons. And life is really
happening out here. We just wentthrough a massive election
season. This entire year hasbeen so divisive in many, on
many levels, but like in thepolitical ideology, the the
identity politics as it is,and circling up with a group of
(32:28):
men, not only for the witnessthat we were speaking of, but
to put our heads together like,maybe, maybe I'm fully resourced
at the moment, and there's abrother who's who's not, and
then maybe there's times whereI'm like, dude, like, I'm in the
unknown right now. I needsupport. That's really what
(32:49):
men's work invites in. It'sthere's no gurus here. It's the
circle. The circle is theteacher. You know, there's no
perfect there's no perfectpeople. And if anybody's coming
at you talking about perfectionrun. Yes. So, so funny. You say
that because like, I am, like Isaid, I got called to be in the
(33:09):
birth portal with my wife when Iwhen the gathering of men, we
call it, T Gong, was running,and I've got a bro, his name's
Keegan, and shout out to Keegan,he I called him. I said, bro, I
need you to step in for me. Ineed you to play, play the role
that I normally play, and I'mthe I'm the hot man, that's
that's drumming, that's singing,that's just like bringing the
bringing the energy. That's kindof the role that I play in the
(33:30):
lead team. And he said, I've gotyou, bro. And he's like, can you
just send me a voice note? Justsend me a voice note, though,
sort of encapsulating what theessence of this year is about,
and I remember sending it to abit. I hopped off, and I was
like, I think all I all I keptsaying, was the circle, the
circle, the power of the circle,the ancient technology, this
primordial technology of thecircle, where the circle can
(33:54):
hold everything that needs to beheld. It can witness everything
that needs to be witnessed. Andthe beautiful of the circles. It
can expand and contract based onhow many men are there, or if
some man needs to step away, thecircle can close in. It can the
container, can literallynavigate itself. And for me,
that that idea of the circle iseven to the point where I bring
(34:15):
it into my personal life aswell, is like, I've got my inner
circle. And it's funny, youknow, we were speaking last
week, it's like the fridge isfull again. Man, was talking
about, like, the I had, I hadone of the facilitators, my bro,
Nick, came by yesterday anddropped off fresh fruit and a
carton of eggs and a lasagna inthe freezer and some ice cream
for my wife.
(34:37):
And, like, that's for me, that'sthe circle. Literally,
intuitively guiding andsupporting and resourcing the
community. Yes, yes, it's got tobe. And I get this all the time.
How do I bring this work home?
How do I, you know, how do Iimplement it into my life? And I
believe that it's just in that.
(34:57):
It's in the relationships, it's.
In the actual bonds that we makewith one another, and the way
that we create those thosestrong bonds is through deeply
intimate, you know, situationsand you know, I think I said
last time we were talking that Ihave been someone who has ran in
(35:18):
the past, and very early on insacred sons, it was literally
the first time we had what'scalled an emX embodied masculine
experience. I remember there wasa brother facilitating
a Russian guy, and, you know, Iwas watching this process
unfold, and the facilitatorcalled me in to be a supporter
(35:42):
of this man, and somehow I endedup holding his feet to the
ground, and I'm holding his feetlooking at these sweaty, stinky
feet.
Tears are dropping. Beautifulmovement is happening. Energetic
shifts are happening. You know,healing is happening. But in my
mind, I was just going, like, ifI can do this for this brother,
(36:05):
for this stranger, can I bringthis home? Can I stand when it
gets hard, when the tantrum ishere, when the meltdown is here,
when the uncertainty of lifecreeps in? Because, as we know
in this work, like there'snowhere to arrive where we're
like, sorted all figured out. Igot this master, mastery of
(36:25):
life. And in fact, it's actuallythe moments when you think you
have it together the most thatthe other shoe drops or that
things go awry. And that momentis so vivid for me because it
taught me that I can stand inthe storm like I can just be
with it, and those experienceswe have to train for it. No one
is teaching us as men how to howto stand in, how to stay in the
(36:51):
game, how to stay in when it'swhen it's especially when it's
hard. And so we train, and we dothat over and over again, to the
point where, with something suchas primal recalibration. You can
have someone actually screamingin your face, and you can just
stand in and hold it. And youknow, in my home, there's,
there's two powerful questions,is there more?
(37:16):
And how can I support you menmastering these two questions,
and my for myself to masterthese, these, these moments like
even, like I'm saying,during the the times that would
typically, you know, shake us tothe core where we're like, Fuck,
I just want to be out of here.
Is there more? Is there more?
Because I have more capacitynow. And how do I have more
(37:39):
capacity because of the circleof men that not only has held me
in the depth of my uncertainty,but has also held me accountable
to standard and to my word,yeah,
that that what I take from thatand how, like, I'm sort of just
(38:02):
understanding my own journey alittle more. Is like, yeah, it
has almost felt like the lasteight years of my journeys from
that first ceremony through tomy then deepening into men's
work six years ago, and thenslowly finding my way to this
point of deep facilitation isit's really been a matter of how
much can I become like thehollow bone Yes, and clear out
(38:24):
my my nervous system, of all thethings that stop me from serving
but how do I expand that nervoussystem capacity? How do I become
resilient, but not rigid, and beable to ask, like, that's a
beautiful question. Is theremore and
for us? You know my wife, it'slike, how can I love you better?
Like, hey, how could, how couldI love you better? And rather
(38:45):
than trying to say, what do youneed, it's like, how can I love
you better? And that's, um, and,you know, being in that birth
portal, and my wife and I juststarted doing our podcast series
on that, I'm reallyunderstanding the process work
in a men's work space, how thatcalibrates a man's nervous
system to weather the storm,even if you're not the person
(39:07):
that's leading it, just bywitnessing it and holding the
frame, whether it's the feet ora hand or back on one of the,
you know, hand on the back ofthe heart of another man as he
holds that that that kind of thestructural intelligence of a
process like that. It gives youan experience of, I can I can be
with this? Yes, those are thewords, like, can you be with
(39:30):
this? That's, that's it, man.
And it's not, I want to say,like, we make agreements. So
there are agreements in men'swork, but then there's, there's
rules. And one of the rules ofmen's work is, don't facilitate
men's work on women or on yourwoman. And that's not what we're
saying, right? Yes, yes. Not tofacilitate. It's actually to
grow our capacity. And someguys, even myself may have
(39:50):
gotten that twisted like, Oh,I'm here to learn how to do this
magic everywhere I walk. Andit's not.
The, you know, it's not aboutnecessarily the doing.
It's in that capacity to bewith. I think you nailed it.
(40:11):
Yeah, man, rather than justtrying to paint every situation
with the same brush, like, Okay,I've done a men's work process.
Now I'm gonna do that on my dadwhen I go home for Christmas.
I'm going to do that. I'm goingto do that my friend, when he
doesn't show up at the waves atthe right time and he's five
minutes late, I'm going to callan accountability Yeah Or Yeah.
What I've learned too, is like,yes, there are, there are some
(40:32):
actual structured processes thatare great in like an initiatory
experience or rites of passageexperience. But what actually
has helped me is learning how toask good questions, being really
attuned to my own curiosity. Sothat example you gave you know a
man with his father, it's not togo facilitate your dad. That's
never going to work, by the way.
But can you ask good questions?
(40:55):
And for me, when I was goingthrough a separation
with my son, Noah's mom, Iremember that was the moment
where I really was like, fuck,what was my dad going through?
You know? Like, I never asked aquestion. I had always, I'd
always been with my mom's storyof what happened, you know what?
(41:16):
I mean,that was the side of the story
that I heard, and I got reallycurious and and instead of,
instead of holding my curiosityto myself, I started asking
those questions, Dad, what wasgoing on for you? You know, when
I was one, when you guys areseparating, not in with
(41:38):
absolutely no judgment from afrom a place like, Hey, man, I'm
going through it. I am you. Youmade me What were you going
through? You know? Because Ineed to know. And that's, that's
the kind of thing that thismen's work unlocks. I feel like
a lot of us, we, we, we don'tonly suppress our emotions.
(42:00):
Which is, which is broadlyunderstood in terms of the men's
mental health stuff, yeah, likeeverybody's stuffing it down,
stuffing it down, but we alsostuff down our own curiosity.
And becoming curious, onceagain, is such an accelerator
to our own personal growth.
(42:20):
Yes, yes, yes. I found too thatI had,
early on I'd kind of put my dadfucked me up, he's the bad guy.
So the curiosity wasn't there.
And through the process of doingsome emotional work where I got
to see a little clearly, moreclear, clearly, and that
(42:40):
curiosity came online, I thenwas able to actually see the
gold, or ask questions like becurious, and learn that there
was gold in my lineage, that itwasn't just this bad thing that
I kind of break the chain, cutthem off, and it became this
whole New so for me, like theconcept of inner child work or
(43:01):
this healing the lineage becamenot necessarily about me doing
all the work and becoming theperfect person in the line of
the generations. More so it'slike, how do I actually have
compassion and want tounderstand and connect deeper
through receiving wisdomand unlocking that through my
(43:23):
questioning. And yeah, we would.
I've been super grateful. Thelast two years, my dad has come,
and He crews in the kitchen, andhe brings all of the stuff for
our men's retreat. So he comes,and he's a part of it, and he in
him being there, I'm starting tosee even more of the qualities,
and I'm getting to learn moreabout him, and the Curiosity has
(43:45):
just led to a deeper and deeperconnection and a deeper and
deeper understanding of, like,all of the value that he's given
me as well, which has beenbeautiful, because before, it
was just like, not he's hewasn't there for me, for this,
this, this and this. So I've gotto heal and do all the work
myself, so I don't do that withmy children.
And now I'm starting to see thatthat's, that's folly, man like
(44:06):
that. One's perfect,absolutely. And there's, you
know, there's, there's alwaysmultiple sides to any situation
or story. And it's important tobe curious about perspectives
and also to be courageous enoughto to ask the question in the
first place. You know, so manythings go unspoken because,
because we may, at times, lackcourage. So another thing that
(44:28):
this work does is it, it expandsour ability to, like, make the
courageous choice. You know, Iused to say, like, whenever you
have a choice, just do thecoolest thing, right? Just do
whatever is the coolest that'sthat's where I come from. But
now I'm like, do the mostcourageous thing, like when you
have a choice in your life,really, at your doorstep, you
(44:48):
know, on your plate,do the thing that requires the
most courageand see what happens that's.
Like a good place to operatefrom in my experience. And what
you bring up for me, too is thatthis work of sacred sons, I've
(45:10):
been cultivating, creatingevents,
traditions. And you know, we'rewe just completed our
convergence nine and so 2025, wewill have convergence. 10. This
is, for me, this is a bigmilestone. And for the
Brotherhood, it's a bigmilestone, and what it has
informed me of is to createtraditions in my own family.
(45:34):
It's not to bring my family tosacred sons, right? It is
beautiful that your dad's in thekitchen. Don't get me wrong,
that's that's quite beautiful,and it's in the in between,
like, what are the traditionsI'm creating in my home? What
are the annual gatherings ofmyself, my brother, his
children, my mother and father,and we've been cultivating that.
Like, that's a learnedexperience, because so many of
(45:54):
us, myself included, especiallyin in America, you know, we've
been cut off from the root ofour ancestry.
It's, it's real. You know, thisis an immigrant culture here
this, and they call that. Youcall it a an orphan culture. You
can call it a culturelessculture. And so men's work in
masculine alchemy has reallyinformed me to create the
(46:17):
traditions in my home. Andthat's like, that's, that's more
fulfilling than putting on anevent. I can just, I can say,
like, what I've done with mybrother every year. And this,
this came because I wasconstantly telling my brother,
you got to come to sweat lodge.
Got to come to sweat lodge, bro,I got too much going on. I you
know, he's got, my brother's gotfive children, you know, you got
to come to convergence. I madethis thing, you will love it,
(46:40):
and eventually he's just likeAdam, like, what if we just get
our families together, you know,like, what if we just do our own
convergence, if you will, right?
And that's, that's what, that'swhere the real gold has been as
a result of this work, notnecessarily to
(47:02):
to bring my family to the work,but to bring the work to my
family.
Man, yeah, that's just like,made me reflect on, like, the
traditions that we had in myfamily as a young a young child,
we had a camping trip everyEaster, and that was a tradition
where we all went to the sameriver, the same place on the
(47:22):
river, the nemoy River, fromwhere I'm where I'm from, and we
would all camp for four days.
Now, our cousins would come downfrom Brisbane, like an eight
hour drive. We'd have otherfriends. And over the course of
like, 10 years, we developedthis campsite, and we built
tables and we set everything up.
We had those beautiful,beautiful thing. And that
property got sold. And anyway,my dad made this beautiful, big,
(47:45):
hard, hardwood table out therethat was like the big long
table that we'd eat at. Yeah,big long picnic table. And
when that property got sold, hewent out and he got that that
table, and he he cut it up andhe made chopping boards for all
of the children that were partof the camping that that
(48:06):
tradition was like a closing ofthat tradition. And you've just
really seeded this idea of,like, Okay, what tradition can I
bring to my family? And startwith my my son, he's only just
here. How can I bring atradition in that starts in the
first year of his life, andstart to build on that and use
it as a way, like, hey, let's,let's create something here that
becomes a family tradition, thatkind of anchors us and brings us
(48:30):
back together every year. Thatsounds Yeah, I'm really loving
the idea, right? It's soimportant to have those anchors.
You know what I mean? One of thethings I do is every New Year's
Day, the first of the year, wedrive out to the desert. I'm
here in San Diego, so it's anhour drive to on to Borrego
Desert. It's beautifullandscape, but it's barren. It's
(48:50):
cold, you know, it's it'slacking in the ways of life,
although there's lizards andthings that my boys like. But to
have that, to know that on thefirst day of the year we're
going to go out to the desert,we're going to be out there in
the land, we're going to light afire, where it's going to be
together, away from all thenoise, away from all the
technology, and always startingthe year off with this.
(49:13):
It's because of the place thatwe're in. But like, culture is
rooted in place, right? Andit's, it's important to
acknowledge the lands that we'reon, not just in the ways of of
the you know, this is a Kumi, aterritory, but like, have, have
I actually broken bread withthose people? Have I actually
went and put my own prayers onthe land? Because that's what
(49:36):
matters. You know, it's not inthe words, it's in the action,
the learning is in theparticipation, like getting in
the game, not just talking aboutthe game. Men have done so much
of that shit, especially in, youknow, sports and like, we give
all of our energy to theseiconic superstars, as if we're,
as if, as if we're less than SoI'm encouraging brothers, get in
(49:59):
the game of your.
Life. Treat you a fan like befamous amongst your friends and
family. Treat your family as ifthey are the superstars and as
if they are the ones who deserveyour best and deserve your you
know, I don't know if you likerugby or soccer or whatever
you're into, but like or maybenothing but like. Can we
champion our our own children inthe ways that we do these people
(50:20):
that are not even, you know,connected to us, there's a shift
that I have made in that way inmy life that's and it's
significant.
Doesn't mean you can't watchsports. I love the UFC. I'm
about to watch Mike Tyson, JColin this weekend.
I love him. And yes, can I haveCan I can I keep that same
energy when it's me and my boysand I put the boxing gloves on
(50:42):
them, you know what? I mean, canI, can I, can I be in it with
just as much passion? Yeah, man,yes. I have this sort of thing
that I say to me. I was like,like, Why do we always have to
tell stories about Gods andgreat men when we're right here?
Why didn't Why don't we createthat and become that? And I have
a lot of young, boys are friendswith young boys in that sort of
(51:03):
seven, seven to 10 range, andthey, like you have the capacity
to like, be a, be a mentor forthese young men in your life.
And that for me, like I, I wear,I wear this sort of a cowboy
hat, and I bought a brand newone because I was like, I want a
new cowboy hat, and I want tokeep it,
(51:23):
because I've got a good one, andthen I've got my, like, my work
one. And anyway, this young,young, young boy, he's named Sue
me. He's a son of some of ourclose friends. He He came in and
he put it on, he put my cowboyhat on, and he was just walking
around with it, and I just, andhe's like, Can I have this? And
I was like, the part of me wasone to hold on to it, because I
(51:44):
wanted to, I wanted to sparejust in case. I was like, Nah,
man, you can have it. You canhave this hat. And, like, he
hasn't, you know, his mom'sring, um, told me, like he
hasn't taken it off. And I thinkwe have the capacity to to be,
to be real, like not, not to bechampions, or to be the, the
famous celebrity, but we havethe ability to influence and be
that pillar of ofof what's possible, and play
(52:06):
that role and have men ratherthan be told, tell rather than
tell you a story or watch it onthe TV like come out into the
yard and let's experience lifetogether. Let's light the fire,
let's climb the tree, let's putthe gloves on, let's run the
race, let's swim across thecreek. And I think we spoke a
little bit about that idea ofplay before in it. And I think
that, like, what I'm hearing islike, yeah, it's all well and
(52:28):
good to cheer on the big sportsstars, but if we can't, like, go
out and have our own adventuresand have our own experiences,
we're just sitting in the in thebleachers, we're just sitting on
the sideline. And that for me,like I always say, you know, see
you in the arena, because that'swhere I do my best work. Yeah,
the Man in the Arena,that's just it. And I feel like,
(52:50):
maybe those great men in thepast, you know, there was no
Doom scrolling for them. Therewas no opportunity not to be the
man in the arena. And we havelost aspects of that because of
the technological culture, theindustrialized system that we
were literally born into.
(53:10):
Andwe get to acknowledge it, but we
don't have to accept that as ourfate,
right? It's like, if we knowbetter, let's let's do something
about it, and and it's aboutsmall wins. I want to just
reiterate right here, becausewe, I can get a little big with
it, but it's like, man, it's inthe mundane. The magic is in the
mundane. It's in the theeveryday situations, like where
(53:34):
Johan, he had that fuckingstomach ache, man, and we were
for a minute Hannah's like, youneed to take him to the ER, you
know, like, I don't know whatthis is, and I'm like, not so
much for that, but, but I'mlike, let me just sit with them.
Let me have them drink somewater. Let me rub his belly, let
me sing him a song. You know,can I just do what I do and see
(53:55):
if we can get through this? Andit did. It passed, you know, he
was able to to move through thepain, just with just with my
presence and in US rallyingaround him like everything
doesn't have to be medicalizedand industrialized here sat in
any type of ceremony, like ourbodies are so intelligent, even
(54:18):
when It's hard, even whensickness comes, like maybe that
fever is burning off somethingthat needs to be burnt off. And
so what is our capacity asparents, as guardians, to once
again, be with it,not to outsource because a
doctor, you know what's funny,and even Johan was like, Daddy,
(54:39):
should we go the doctor? And I'mlike, I'm like, I'm, I'm Doctor
daddy. Now, like, like, come on.
Like, I got tools too. I got a Igot a whole medicine cabinet
too. Like, yes, and don't get mewrong, I'm for doctors. They
provide all kinds of incrediblethings, especially in the form
(54:59):
of.
Like traumatic injuries andthings like that.
And we're we are much moreequipped than we give ourselves
credit for. Actually, we're moreequipped than the what's called
the system gives us credit for.
Once we're embodied, once wetake ownership.
Man, that and like that justcomes back to, can I be with
(55:22):
this? Is like, Am I willing tobe responsible and take
responsibility and ownership andbe like, cool, I I don't need to
run and give that myresponsibility away to us, to
someone who's got a pill or or amedicine that that's going to
take this away from the personmyself or my family member.
Because, once again, that, likeyou said, that fever might be
(55:43):
burning something off thisstomach ache might be, you know,
deepening something here, likeit's and it's not to say that,
like you said, and I totallyagree that the medical system is
there for very specific set ofreasons. For me, personally, I
don't engage with it otherwise,unless it's something a massive
emergency, but in those moments,very diplomatic, very
(56:05):
diplomatic,but I'm the same. I'm like, Oh,
this is my responsibility. AndI've had like, different types
of injuries and different typesof sicknesses where I'm like,
this is actually, even when Igot COVID, it was almost like I
was like, this is kind of like acollective purge. And like all
of our friends, got it at thesame time, and we I was like,
literally just in bed, justalmost hallucinating and
(56:26):
sweating. I was like, this is,this is this is asking me to
slow down. It's asking me tostop. This has asked me to be
with it. And I think that that'ssomething that, through my
ceremony journeys, has taught methat don't run from this. Don't
outsource your power. Don't rushoff and give your control away
to someone who's just going tomake life more comfortable. Be
(56:47):
with the discomfort. Be with thepart of you that isn't too sure
what to do and trust and ask forsupport. Call on your like, pick
up your heart. History tools,Jacob, trust, and that's been a
hugeand I feel that's going to be a
huge lesson for me as as oceancontinues to grow, and I get to
put all of those things intopractice in a much deeper way.
(57:08):
Yeah, and on the other side,when,
when reservoirs are full, whenresources are plenty, can we be
that friend that shows up withthe chicken soup that shows up
with, you know, the whatever itis that that that wants to be
provided. And we were, we werekind of talking about this just
(57:31):
a moment ago, but there's asense of men as provider. But
really,prosperity comes in more forms
than just money, right? It'sjust, it's a reality I work
with. So I've, I have workedwith so many men who have come
into the pitfall, have giventheir children everything they
wanted in the form of, you know,toys and memes and money, but
(57:54):
lacked actual presence. And sothe prosperity can't truly be
there unless the presence of theFather is is home, you know, and
not and not 24/7 like we were onmissions here, you know, I mean,
and in this case, you and I, itseems like we have a shared
mission, shared vision, sharedvalues, that we're working
(58:17):
towards and deepeningcollectively.
But the prosperity is going tocome from our presence as well
as the ability to put food onthe table.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah,man, the dinner table is kind of
the altar of the of the home.
That's the way I see. It's like,yeah, you can put food on the
table, but if you're not thereto share, share it with your
family. Can there's somethingmissing,
(58:41):
which is, like, really, reallyimportant for me. That's
something that I'm I listened toone of the podcasts with Vince
matoska, yeah, one of the liveones. And I think he, he read a
poem about how, like, men haveto go away, they have to go on
adventure, have to go and dotheir work, but they also have
to know when to come home. And Ithink that's the wrestle, like,
I work with a lot of guys thatthink they have to always be
(59:03):
like, it's about the quantity oftheir their time with their
family, rather than the quality.
And for me, it's like, you needto be when you're with your
family, be be with your family.
But when the when the vision andthe adventure calls, be with
that and know how to navigateand hold the tension of the two,
the paradox, which is, I'm a manon a mission, and I'm a man here
(59:26):
to be deeply present and stewardin this, this next generation,
and be with my woman, and bewith the garden and make sure
that the dishes are washed. Andthat's just as important as
taking this man through theprocess and changing his life.
And those nappies need to bechanged, man,
dude, we got to get our handsdirty building bridges to the
new earth, even when we changethe diapers. You call them
(59:48):
nappies? Yeah, we call themnappies. And I have failed at
this many, many times. One timeI went to an event and I didn't
have my car. Here in the States,we have car registry.
Shouldn't like your licenseplates. And Hannah, like,
halfway through this event, I'mout on some island in British
Columbia, leading men, and she'sgetting pulled over because I
(01:00:09):
didn't fucking take care of thetags. It's like, what the fuck
you know? And I like processthat process that in front of
the men, like, Hey, I know youguys. Like, I'm, I'm leading
this thing here. I'm, I'm cocreating this thing here, but
I'm also fucking up, and we getthe opportunity to own that
shit. You know what I'm saying?
Like, I just want to bring somehumility to it, like I'm gearing
(01:00:30):
up for a prime leadership thisweekend. It's here in San Diego.
We have 30 men coming from allaround the world to train, and
yeah, I'm out here today andtomorrow, making sure everything
is sorted, so that while I'mgone, my presence is still felt
in the preparation.
There's a difference between,like, readiness, which is
(01:00:51):
subjective, and the preparationthat it actually takes to do
something like go off on, onthese adventures, on these rites
of passage weekends and so likethat, that that idea of
preparation is is so important,yeah. And that, for me, is kind
of one of the things of like,when, when I look at masculine
energy, is like a consciousnessfeel, it's like, cool. I'm
(01:01:14):
conscious of what my home needswhilst I'm away. I'm actually
holding that field. I'm being orI'm having that level of
awareness, rather than beinglike, I'm going to this retreat.
I'm just going to completelyremove myself. It's okay. I've
tended to this place that is,that I will return to, which is,
um, which is, you know, as asmen, if any men are listening to
that have that drive or thatvision to go out and serve in
(01:01:35):
whatever industry you're in,it's like, remember that that
industry is there, and you willcome home to to a home, and that
home will, you know, most likelyhave, you know, all the things
that you care about. And that'sthe thing that, um, that I'm
conscious, like, very conscious,of these days with this, this
young man in my house, thislittle baby, it's like, yeah, go
(01:01:55):
do the work. But remember thatyou when the work is done you
this, there's, there's a homethat you return to, and what
does that home need from you? Soyou're not constantly in this
pendulum swing of trying to lookafter the home, trying to manage
the the big the big vision, and,um, that's going to be a like
you said, the humility is goingto it's going to be a humble a
(01:02:17):
humbling path, I'm sure, yeah,any good woman will, will humble
us right off of any pedestal wewe get placed upon. You know
what I mean? Like, I get humbledall the time, and
I, I choose to be good with it.
I choose to learn, versus to toresist and and I'm, I'm
constantly learning. I'mconstantly checking in with my
(01:02:41):
curiosity. And it's cool that wecan talk about this, because,
you know, we have a sharedexperience here too, that we
understand. But broadly for men,I just want to, I want to say
there's so many men that don'thave close friendships, and
sometimes even if you, if youhave, like, good friends, it's
like, Man, how deep do youreally go? How well do you
actually even know them? Or orwhat's, what's alive for them?
(01:03:03):
And so if you, if you havesomeone who doesn't have that as
a resource, like a circle ofmen, come out to these events.
You know, step into aconvergence, step into a
gathering of men. Sacred sons,has a couple of immersions come
into Australia, join thosecircles. There are really
incredible fathers, leaders,facilitators. You know,
(01:03:27):
everybody's a breath workpractitioner these days, but
this is so much more than that,and especially if you think that
you've done a lot of work,because, man, that's what I
hear. I've done so much work.
Great. You're in the rightplace, because there's more work
to do.
This circle has no beginning orend, man.
(01:03:50):
Man, hey, thank you so much.
This has been like, you know,I've followed you guys for
pretty much from the start of myjourney, and I really appreciate
you giving your time and energyto this conversation, man, and
it feels really beautiful toconnect with you. I've got a
brother, Benny. He's gonna he'son. He's in America now. He's
heading to prime leadership. Icame to emX earlier this year,
had an incredible experience,and it only deepened my desire
(01:04:13):
to continue to do the work thatI do, and support the work that
all of these differentfacilitators and these different
movements are doing so man, likefor me, this is like we're all
doing the work alongside eachother, and we're all going to
rise together. So thank you somuch. We've got
two, two events happening forSacred sons. There's one in WA
(01:04:36):
what dates are those ones again?
Yes, I want to shout out ourbrother, Ryan Rowlands will be
leading immersion in Perth,Australia, November 30 through
December 1. And then also wewill be in Byron Bay, New South
Wales. Yes, yes, in December, 7and eighth. And these immersions
are designed so you don't haveto go camping in the wilderness.
(01:05:00):
For four days. It's not as muchof a time investment. You can
sleep in the comfort of your ownhouse, but come out for the day,
do some deep work within thosetwo days. It's enough time
truly, with the modalities, withthe practices we have, and with
these men who have been trainingin this work for years, it's
enough time to really get, youknow, an immersive experience.
(01:05:22):
That's why we call it the theimmersion.
And, you know, some guys have athere's a barrier of entry, if,
if you're going out into thewilderness for a true rites of
passage, however, coming out foran immersion, it's like, it's,
it's less of a risk, man. So ifyou're listening to this. If
you've gotten this far, pleaseconsider this your invitation to
(01:05:45):
join sacred sons immersion. Joina gathering of men. You know, I
like to also just acknowledgethere are no teams in men's
work. There is one team, andthat is the evolution of
masculine consciousness on thisplanet. Get in the game.
I Goodman. Thank you so much, guys.
(01:06:07):
I'll put all the links downbelow in the show notes, once
again, brother, thank you somuch. Big Love to you and your
fam guys. We'll see you nextweek.
Yo, yo, yo. Thank you so muchfor tuning in to another episode
of sex, love and everything inbetween. Now, if you'd like to
(01:06:28):
stay connected with Meg and I,you can head on over to
Instagram and follow me at theJacob O'Neal and where can
people find you lover, at thedot. Meg, dot. O amazing. And
yeah, guys, check out the shownotes for all other information
in regards to what we've gotcoming up. And yeah, we're
super, super grateful that youguys for taking the time to
(01:06:50):
listen in to this podcast. Ifyou do have any topics or any
questions like I said, hit us upon Instagram, and we'll see what
we can do. Apart from that, havea beautiful, beautiful rest of
your day. Thanks for being here.
Big, big love you.
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