Irene Lyon — A Deep Dive into Repressed Anger, Kill Energy, Functional Freeze, Pain, Nervous System Healing and More - #28

Do you ever find yourself feeling numb, paralysed, frozen, or overwhelmed with anger? 

You're not alone. Join me as I sit down with Irene Lyon, a top-ranked nervous system expert, as we unpack these challenging emotions together. 

We dive into the science of "kill" energy, the fight or flight response, and shed light on societal conditioning that often restricts us from harnessing these protective mechanisms. 

This episode is not just about navigating anger and rage; it's about understanding our bodies and minds on a deeper level. 

Through shared experiences with Feldenkrais and Irene's background in exercise science and biomedical health science, we explore the importance of somatic practices and trauma works. 

We also delve into how our knowledge of the human system can provide an effective healing path for people struggling with injuries. 

Lastly, we cast an eye on the work-rest dynamic and share insights on maintaining a healthy balance. Transitioning from offline to online work, we discuss the importance of pushing boundaries and the challenges that come with it. 

Irene also shares her experiences and lessons on differentiating accurate impulses from inaccurate ones. 

This episode intertwines theory and practicality, providing you with transformative insights into healing your nervous system and managing anger.

Connect with Irene here.

Time stamps:

• 0:00 - Intro
• 5:40 - Somatic Practices and Trauma Work
• 18:01 - The Balance Between Pushing Through Resistance vs. Rest
• 33:45 - Healing Your Nervous System
• 41:08 - Managing Rage and Chemical Sensitivity
• 57:57 - Rage and Nervous System Regulation

Past episodes and show notes are located here: https://www.sexmoneyrage.com/podcast

"Genuinely thank you for creating this space for people like-minded to talk openly and feel OK to talk about these things." Beau, Australia

Disclaimer:
I do not promote trying plant medicine or psychedelics (they are a whole other beast). All information provided is for general information and educational purposes only. Please consult with your doctor and do your own research before diving in. There are risks involved, it can interact with certain medications, and it's illegal in most Western countries.

I'm not a doctor, therapist, or counsellor, and nothing said on the podcast is a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, treatment, or a professional therapeutic relationship. All content is intended to provide general health information for educational purposes only.

Episode Transcript

Ellie Goode (00:04):
Welcome to the sex, money and rage podcast
imagining and feeling the energyof wanting to kill that person
that hurt you and this goesagainst all the grains of love
and light and be kind andcompassionate and forgive.
I think that there's a placefor that, because if there
wasn't, we would be crazy peoplerunning around killing everyone

(00:27):
.
But there is that energy in thephysiology that wants to feel.
The protection mechanism thatnever got to happen because of
our societal conditioning ishumans hello rages, and welcome
back to sex, money and rage.

Irene Lyon (00:47):
I'm your host, ellie , and today's guest was super,
super interesting Irene Lyon.
She is an incredible nervoussystem expert.
She has a huge YouTube channeland just puts out so much
content all about the nervoussystem and how to release stored
survival stress from yourphysical body.
So today we chatted a lot aboutkill energy, really intense

(01:11):
rage or the fight response ofthe fight or flight mechanism in
your body and what to do aboutit, how to release it and what
to do if perhaps you don't feelkill energy and you feel really
numb inside and suppressed andfrozen, or in a state of just
not knowing how to feel, notknowing how to act or take
action because motivation, youknow, taking action it's all

(01:35):
tied into rage and so if you'resuppressing your rage, is
suppressing this kill energythat's inside because you're
afraid of it, then this episodeis for you.
We talked about all about howto work with anger and rage and
get into your nervous system andpeel back these layers of
protection that so many of usput on to keep ourselves safe.
If you've been listening to thepodcast and you're loving it

(01:55):
you're listening to it night andday, 24 hours a day, even while
you sleep, then please leave afive-star review.
It would be greatly appreciated.
It goes a long way.
It helps get the word out toother people and helps me get
really interesting guests.
So if you are enjoying it andyou want more interesting guests
, then please hit that five-starrating or review button on
Spotify, apple, wherever youlisten to sex, money and rage.

(02:19):
All right, that's it for me.
Enjoy this incredible episodewith Irene Lyon and I'll catch
you on the other side.
Hey, irene, thank you so muchfor coming on sex, money and
rage today.
How is your day going so far?

Ellie Goode (02:34):
It's going okay.
It's that time of year wherethe you know the days are
getting a little longer here inthe northern hemisphere, yeah,
so it's good there's a littlemore energy bubbling and I love
the title of your show, so it'sit's okay excited to talk about
those topics yeah, i wanted totalk about, i guess, the more

(02:57):
uncomfortable nitty-gritty stuffthat people kind of avoid
because everyone thinks about it, everyone goes through it.

Irene Lyon (03:04):
So so, yes, i wanted , i wanted to ask you a bit
about yourself and what you dofor people who haven't met you
or don't know anything about you.

Ellie Goode (03:15):
Yeah, it's a long story, but I'll start with like
now, in this moment, pretty muchall my work is in the online
space and it revolves around ifI really make it really macro
teaching people about theirnervous system, teaching people
about what trauma really is, andteaching people educational but

(03:39):
also practical through mycourses and classes how to
restore health and what we wouldcall the fancy term is
regulation to the nervous system, physiology, so it's it's like
a hybrid between body, mind,brain, but also cells, but also
and I know you know the work abit is that connection to the

(04:02):
environment.
So it's kind of that mind, body, environment intersection.
And at the moment, you know,we've we've been doing these
courses and these onlineteachings for almost it's like
been almost 10 years, which iscrazy, really, really

(04:23):
intensively.
The last I'd say six, i was inprivate practice before.
I brought everything online andwas working with people, all
kinds of folks so pain, ptsd,traumas, got problems, auto
immune, old injuries, kids,teenagers, all ages and so I was

(04:49):
in private practice for a verylong time and basically made a
shift to online just to changethings up and and really, ellie
and you know this there was somuch education that people
needed to learn, and it didn'tmake sense to do that one-on-one
when you could create a video,you create an article, you could

(05:10):
create a course, and so it wasso clear to me, working in
private practice six or so yearsago, i would be spending so
much of that hour of a person'stime and you know that wasn't
cheap.
You know, here in Vancouver fora session, just drawing
pictures and graphs, and this isyour fight flight and this is

(05:34):
your freeze and this is whathappens when you're born, and so
that was a huge, importantshift.
Gear shift, if you will, in mypractice was to go that route.
So that's sort of now and thenas my credentials, if we say
those.
I have training in somethingcalled somatic experiencing,

(05:55):
which is the work of Dr PeterLevine, and he's still alive and
well, but that was, he wasreally the godfather, the
grandfather of understandingthat humans store stress in ways
that animals in the wild don't,and that's why we get unwell
and that's why things linger.
So I'm trained in that.
I'm also trained in somethingcalled the Feldenkrais method,

(06:18):
which is also a person, dr MocheFeldenkrais.
He's long past and he was justbrilliant at teaching people how
to really relearn is the bestway to say it, but from the body
level.
But when you relearn how to moveand use your body, it also

(06:40):
surprise, surprise affects thebrain, because that's where
movement arises from.
So that's something else thatI'm trained in.
I was actually introduced tothat in Australia, your home
country, yeah, back in 2000, andWollongong.
And and then you know, anotherbranch of the work that I do is
the work of Kathy Kane andStephen Terrell.

(07:01):
I need to, you know, respectthem, because they taught me
about early trauma anddevelopmental trauma and working
at that pre-verbal level whichis sort of just starting to be
understood by the mainstream.
It's not enough to just talkabout your problems, and even
it's not enough to work withemotions.

(07:22):
You have to get into that deepcellular level which you've
learned about through some of mycourses.
So that's another bridge thatbrings in the body, the mind,
but also that cell physiologyelement.
And then you know before that,ellie, i had two degrees in we
call it here kinesiology, butit's exercise science and

(07:45):
another degree, research inbiomedical science.

Irene Lyon (07:48):
So I'm over qualified, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah
and and so what?
what prompted your interestinto the somatic world?
and and Fodenkreis and nervoussystem?

Ellie Goode (08:02):
yeah, well, i was actually in Australia.
I was in Wollongong going touniversity doing research and I
had just recovered from apatella, which is the kneecap
fracture, so I had broken mykneecap.
It's a long story, i won't getinto the full full, but

(08:23):
essentially I had a complicationfrom another surgery of my knee
replacing a ligament called theanterior cruciate ligament, acl
, and my kneecap broke aboutthree weeks after this surgery.
This was back in 2000, so 22years ago, which is crazy, and

(08:44):
that injury really screwed me.
It just, you know it, for lackof a better word fucked up my
body, if I can say that, yeahand it it.
What was so interesting, ellie,is I was in Australia about a
year after this happened.
The bone was healed, like Ilooked good, my muscle you know
definition was back, but I wasin so much stiffness and pain

(09:09):
and what.
What was so interesting is Ihad just spent 10 years learning
exercise, science and fitnessand rehab and working with
people with injuries and some ofthese people I was helping.
But whatever I had learneddidn't work for me, and so I was
doing the stretching and thestrengthening and physical

(09:31):
therapy and massage and it wasjust still not.
My body was still not well.
So I was introduced to theFeldenkrais method there in
Australia and it blew my mindand you can almost say I had an
awakening of my body andsensation.
Even with all my athleticpursuits in my teens and

(09:54):
twenties, never had I consideredhow to pay attention to my
movement, never had I consideredhow my breath might get held
when I strain or do something.
I had no understanding ofdevelopmental movement and even
though I had studied the spineand the bones and I could name

(10:17):
every single piece of anatomy, icould not.
I didn't know how they reallyworked together, which is so
strange, right?
so we could say about the sameabout some doctors.
You know they've studied somuch about the system, the human
system, but if you were to askthem to just heal someone with
their bare hands, they probablywouldn't know where to start.

(10:37):
So that led me into the somaticworld of Feldenkrais and one
could say the rest was history.
I got into that work intensivelywhen I returned back to Canada
and did a four-year training.
It's not short, you know.
So this stuff isn't just like aweekend course, it was a
four-year, like 800 hourtraining it was.

(11:00):
It was.
It was amazing for my if Icould go back and do another one
.
It'd be great because you'reliterally relearning every
single movement of your body.
And but what was interesting?
to follow that thread to how Igot into the trauma world with
Peter Levine's work.
I was working in privatepractice, having great success

(11:24):
with maybe 50 to 60 percent ofmy clients, but there was a
portion of folk who weren'tgetting better with the
Feldenkrais work which helped meso much and it made no sense at
the time and so I talked andasked questions and that led me
to somatic experiencing.
And then when I started readingsome of Peter's writings, i

(11:46):
went oh man, this is why some ofthese clients aren't doing well
.
They have had some reallyterrible traumatic abuse,
accidents, life stressors.
There's another layer that weneed to go to, that is even
under the neuro motordevelopment patterns, and so

(12:08):
that was in 2008.
And I just signed up for an SCtraining in California and just
kind of rode that way from 08,learning and learning and going
to classes, and at the end I wasassisting at the masterclass
level with Peter and hismasterclasses, which was a
blessing that I got in when Idid And that kind of ended, not

(12:33):
ended, but I chose to sort ofjust go off and do my own thing
intensively, kind of in about2000 and like 15 ish.
So I was really in thatcommunity learning as much as I
could for, you know, a goodeight or so years.
I'm doing my math correctly,yeah, so that's.

(12:57):
That's kind of a quick versionof how I got into what we would
call.
You know it's funny there's noactual designation for the word
somatic, like it's we kind ofuse it, and it's nice because it
encompasses not just my workbut, say, body mind centering,
which is body baby, whichCohen's work.
It might encompass dance andand other forms of even Eastern

(13:20):
arts like chigong and Tai Chi.
But this moment in time, unlike, say, physical therapy or
medicine, somatics is kind ofthis gray zone of everything
thrown into one bucket.
And then I would say I'm biasedand I know you are The combo of

(13:44):
Feldenkrais and somaticexperiencing and Kathy Cain's
work is just like the bomb in agood way.

Irene Lyon (13:51):
I was talking to John about this.
My brother And I was like youknow, so I was trying to figure
out, like what's, what's thedifference between all these
things?
And he explained it really well.
Like the somatic experiencingis really good for working with
charge, like big energy chargesthat come through the body, and
then the Feldenkrais is good forbringing in that more

(14:11):
parasympathetic state or thatkarma state, and so I just, yeah
, by having both, like you needboth because you're going to
have these big fight or fight,energy is coming through, but
then you need to also learn howto bring your body and your
system down to rest and recover.
And yeah, i thought that wasreally cool how you brought all

(14:31):
of this together in into onesort of thing.

Ellie Goode (14:35):
For sure.
That's a great way of lookingat it And in my evolution it was
really clear in, say, mysomatic experiencing trainings,
when I was just learning, thosewho struggled to really get what
was going on were often andthis is not always the case, i'm

(14:56):
generalizing They were the onesthat were more in the mental
world of psychotherapy andcounseling.
And my peers who are, say, yogatrained or Feldenkrais trained
or more Eastern, like there wassome Chinese medicine folk, they
had a much easier time I'mactually getting shivers

(15:16):
thinking about it right now,like we had no, i don't want to
say we had no trouble, but itwas so easy to go into that
learning because we were alreadyembodied and we knew how to be
in our awareness of our body.
And then I did feel for thosefolks who are more analytical It

(15:37):
was hard for many of them todrop in because they didn't have
time.
There was no time in thattraining to learn how to be in
your body.
Oddly it's called somaticexperiencing, but there was no
apprenticeship to teach, right?
You know, this is how you senseyour guts, this is how you
sense your inter interception,and so I think that was an eye

(16:01):
opener and it also gave me juiceto know how, when and if that
time comes.
When I teach this stuff toother people It's like, oh,
there's going to be so muchfoundational work before we get
even get into working withpeople, because if you have
those foundations on board, thehigher level stuff actually is a
lot simpler, if that makessense.

(16:22):
Yeah, definitely, like youcan't do calculus if you can't
read numbers Right.

Irene Lyon (16:29):
Yeah, it's like you need that kind of foundation of
like how to move.
I mean, i know I wasn't evenaware of it when I started with
a somatic therapist and it blewmy mind as well, because I was.
I was like whoa, i didn't, ijust had this hunch of like I'd
gone to talk therapy and I'dsort of resolved everything
mentally, but I was likesomething feels off in my body

(16:51):
still and and I don't want tojust go and talk about it I just
feel it.
And so that's what led me intothe somatic world, so to speak.
Yeah, i know, so it's yeah,it's a lot of fun.
So I wanted to ask as wellabout so you mentioned you did
one on one sessions and then youdecided to branch into the
online world and do courses andvideos.

(17:13):
And what was that transitionperiod like, and were you
working sort of part time withwith clients while you built up
the online business, or how didsort of all of that work?

Ellie Goode (17:25):
I was working full time clients.
Wow, it was.
One might say that I was stillin a bit of a functional freeze
In that period because, honestlyand my students know this
because I talk about this whenI'm teaching it wasn't really
until the last two years I thinkthat I finally lifted out of

(17:46):
that functional freeze, and alot of it had to do with COVID
per se, but the fact that Iwasn't traveling and training
and going places and, you know,uprooting myself.
I was just nestled, routine andit gave my body space to really

(18:06):
move some old, old, old oldstuff out.
So if I think about how Iworked back in 2013 ish to 16
ish, i was seeing not like 40clients a week.
That's impossible in our lineof work to do that.
Well, some might do it, butthey're probably doing it in a

(18:30):
deep functional freeze in myopinion.
But I was seeing, sometimesfour days a week, six clients,
five clients, you know, depended.
I was still teaching classes inmy little studio And then I
mean I had a routine I would goto my office in downtown
Vancouver and then I'd walk homeAnd I'd stop at a very specific

(18:54):
Starbucks.
I'd have a tea And I'm I had tosit and write an article or
write a piece of content for thelike, like that's.
It was like my routine.
Then I come home, i'd havedinner and I do it again till
often midnight.
So, yeah, it was just thisconstant, constant construction,

(19:16):
if you will, of written word,outlining lessons, slide, what
is it called PowerPoint, youknow, for the biology of stress
videos, audio exercises.
So whenever I had a sparemoment, i would get my husband,
seth, who has a, you know,professional sound studio.

(19:39):
He'd like set it up and I'd,you know, record a quick lesson
in between things, you know,before dinner's ready.
And so it was done in this verypiecemeal whenever I could.
If I had waited until I hadjust all this time, it never
would have happened.
So, and I think when you talkto anyone who creates something
like that, it usually has astory that's similar.

(20:02):
Yeah, and so it was a lot ofwork.
And then it wasn't until I'dhave to look back at my notes.
One of my mentors and I've donesome interviews with him, his
name is Chris Durkey's.
He's sort of my soul, spiritualmentor, confidant.
He used to be a priest, so he'sgot that very calming energy

(20:24):
And he left the church becausehe realized I want to have a
girlfriend and a wife and kids,and so kudos to him for
following his impulse right Andso now he does great, great work
.
But it was him who really saidyou need to get out of private
practice because there's a muchbigger need for this education.

(20:49):
And he was right.
And it took it took probablyfrom him saying that honestly,
ellie about three years toreally transition out.
It was tough.

Irene Lyon (21:00):
You know it's, it's.

Ellie Goode (21:02):
I mean, oddly, it's easy work When you have that
high level skill.
You don't have to prepareanything, you just show up.
I mean, i didn't prepare forour talk either, but you know
it's, you go, you, you come back, you leave, you do your work,
but with the online thing,there's always something else to
do.
Yeah, you know, and I'm stilllearning that boundary and

(21:25):
learning to get more help frommy staff and hire more people.
It's, yeah, it's been aninteresting journey of nervous
system push, because here's thething If you can't push a little
bit and override in some things, nothing ever gets done.
And so it's knowing thatbalance of okay, now I have to

(21:47):
really take a chill pill andjust unplug and like force
myself to be lazy, which is forme, that's my.
My upbringing was to work, work, work, work.
That's what my parents taughtme, and so I'm trying to like
shift that to have a goodbalance.

Irene Lyon (22:10):
It's a very Western, i think, motto is to just you
know work and work and makemoney and build a business.
And you know achieve, achieve.
And it is this, this unlearningof you know slowing down and
bringing that, you know usingthat fold and crash analogy of
bringing that slower movementand slowing us down to to rest.

Ellie Goode (22:31):
So, but it's it's also, you know it's also very
post war.
you know, after the SecondWorld War at least my
grandparents who lived throughthat you know it was a survival.
it was, you know, immigrants,like they had to work darn hard
to.
you know, my mom was to makeends meet and find the things

(22:54):
you needed to find, and I thinkthat that push is still
lingering in so many of ourworlds.
But it also can swing the otherway to nothing.
And so there's this finebalance of how do you contribute
?
And we still have money, so westill need to make money to buy

(23:15):
food and electricity and allthose things.
And I've accepted that like,okay, i'll play the game.
But then again, yeah, goingback to those, to the older ways
of being more slow and nomadicand not knowing where your next
meal is gonna come from, like itwas just such a different time,

(23:35):
you know, thousands andthousands of years ago, compared
to the last, say even 100 years.
So that fascinates me too ishow we're in this interesting
transition.
it seems, and some people arecaught in that you know, screw
you, i'm not doing anything, andsome are still asleep in that

(23:57):
very nine to five rat race world.
So it's interesting.
It's like nervous system.
regulation at that macro levelis interesting.

Irene Lyon (24:05):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
And, like you said, it's abalance of yeah, like there are
times you need to sort of pushand get things done, but then
also, yeah, it's that balance ofand I guess that comes back to
following your impulse, whichyou talk a lot about in your
programs as well.
So it's also yeah.

Ellie Goode (24:25):
Yeah, and the impulse is interesting, because
sometimes that impulse isn'taccurate.

Irene Lyon (24:29):
Yep.

Ellie Goode (24:31):
And so how does one discern that impulse to be lazy
in that being resistance todoing what is needed versus true
deep need for rest?
And, as you've learned, that'sjust something you learn with
trial and error Yeah, and it'snot always easy when you're

(24:52):
upbringing was one of the other.
And I do think that there isthis perfect I don't like that
word, perfect but this betterbalance, homeostasis, where we
know when that impulse isaccurate and then we know when
that impulse is like the littledevil trying to get us Yeah, and

(25:12):
how to say not no.
You know, like that's like oldstuff, that's like trying to
creep into sabotage my success,not just in business, but today,
or in this hour, or in thisconversation with this person.

Irene Lyon (25:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's a journey, for sure, and so you
mentioned functional freeze.
Could you just explain whatthat is for someone who wouldn't
know what that is?

Ellie Goode (25:37):
Yeah, so I'll explain that.
I'll explain the other Fs.
So fight, flight, that is ourclassic danger threat.
I need to punch this person orattack them or run for my life.
And while that is I've justgiven it literal like there was,
you know, like there's aburglar or an attacker or an

(26:00):
animal or something like a ballcoming.
it isn't just a person, itcould be a ball coming towards
your head and you have toprotect to not get hurt.
That is our what we callsympathetic nervous system, part
of our autonomic nervous system, that protects us.
It's also that energy that youhear when they say, oh, the

(26:21):
mother was able to lift the caroff of her baby, like heroic
hormones, just you know.
and then there's free.
So there's fight, flight, andthen something called freeze,
and that's part of what's calledthe parasympathetic nervous
system.
And then the parasympatheticnervous system is very complex.
There has elements of freeze,but also elements of rest,

(26:43):
digest, and also elements ofsocial engagement, which is very
much mammalian and human.
but the freeze element would beI can't fight, i can't flee,
i'm just going to freeze.
And the classic animal metaphorwould be the deer and the deer
in the headlights.
So you're driving, and I'm surein Australia that it would be

(27:04):
kangaroo with headlights.

Irene Lyon (27:07):
There's lots of kangaroos.

Ellie Goode (27:10):
Yep, and like they, you know, i don't know if they
freeze, they might, They do.

Irene Lyon (27:15):
They look at the car headlights and they just stop
in the middle of the road andstare at the headlights.

Ellie Goode (27:21):
Yeah, so that's freeze, they're in shock, they
don't, they lose orientationbecause they've been blinded And
they don't know where to gobecause if they, maybe they're
going to jump into something.
That's not good.
So they freeze.
So humans have that too.
And then freeze has a spectrumbecause, like, think about it,
if you literally had that deerin the headlight, shock, you

(27:43):
couldn't live, like it wouldn'twork.
So what happens is it happensin humans And let's just say it
isn't an accident, because we doneed freeze.
So my example is always, if yourupture an artery because of an
accident, you're going to wantto go into freeze And then

(28:03):
what's called shutdown so thatyour blood pressure and your
heart rate goes really, reallyhigh, your heart rate goes
really slow so that you don'tbleed out, right, that we want.
So freeze can turn intoshutdown And let's just say
there isn't an accident likethat, it's just intense

(28:25):
emotional trauma.
So there might be some shutdown, you might feel a little low,
you might even be what's calledcollapsed, where the tissues get
really kind of flaccid.
It's the opposite of fightingand bracing, right.
So it's just like I give up.
I give up, i'm just going to bevery suppressed and depressed

(28:46):
and collapsed.
That's kind of the tail end ofthis freeze response and to shut
down collapse.
But then let's just say andthis is just one example, but we
could extrapolate it to allsorts of things that emotional,
verbal or even maybe physicalsexual abuse happens, but you're
not harmed to the point whereyou need to go to a hospital,

(29:08):
Like it's a shake up, but you'retechnically not needing medical
attention.
You go into this kind of lullbut then you got to get up the
next morning.
Let's say you have kids.
Let's say you have animals.
Let's say you have a businessto run.
Let's say, whatever it is, igot to get going, but you don't

(29:32):
realize that your system isstill trapped in that collapse
freezy, deep, shut down,parasympathetic energy.
But because of life, we have tokeep going and we function with
that freeze.
So functional freeze in thatrespect is that.

(29:56):
But the thing that'sinteresting and I did do a video
on this that you can share withfolk I explain an analogy where
this starts, because it isn'talways abuse.
My classic example is you'reraising a child and they're
learning how to ride a bike, orthey fall and they hurt
themselves.
And a common thing that weusually say.

(30:18):
I would not say this anymore,but it is.
Oh, you're fine, you're fine,get up, get up.
Get up.
And maybe the kid didn't breakan arm, maybe they just scraped
some of their skin.
But that hurts.
If you've scraped your skinrecently, you know that it
stings and it burns and it hurtsand you need to take care of it
.
And so here you've got thislittle person who's maybe been

(30:41):
hurt this is the first timethey've been hurt And they have
this adult who apparently is theperson who knows, saying you're
fine.
But internally this little kidis like I don't think I'm fine,
but mom is telling me I'm fine,i must be fine.
And that's what slowly starts todiminish our feeling, our

(31:06):
sensation, our ability toprocess intensity.
And so we shut it down, we goby her lead.
Maybe she's like come on, wegotta go, we gotta go.
And so the movement of moving,getting that sympathetic, is not
addressing maybe the tears thatwanna come out, the emotions

(31:28):
that might wanna process thataccident, or the anger.
You know like kids sometimesget angry when they get hurt and
it's their frustration which isvalid, trying to reset their
system.
We could also say, like, if akid is angry about something,
you know rage, anger, aggressionand maybe it's valid.

(31:52):
Maybe their sibling just didsomething really mean to them
and they're trying to get it out.
And because mom doesn't wantviolence in the house, she sees
that aggression is violence whenit's really just sympathetic
energy, saying hey, that's notright, it's a boundary.
And so there's so many waysthat even when we're young, when

(32:16):
it's seemingly innocuous things, it screws with our capacity to
set boundaries.
Say that's not right.
You know that goes in with, ithink, and many would say, how
people get into trouble withabuse is they never knew when
enough was enough.

(32:36):
They never were given thatopportunity to say no, you know,
don't, don't, that's mine, notyour.
You know that kind of thing.
So functional freeze isn't justfrom one specific kind of
accident or abuse.
It's just this way in which wediminish a person's

(32:57):
physiological sensations andexpressions and then slowly,
over time, it's like justanother layer of cement is put
on the person and another thinlayer, until they have no clue
that they have this block ofprotection around them and their

(33:18):
living life And they just thinkthis is how life is.
And so that would be acomprehensive way of describing
functional freeze.
You won't find it in a textbook, that kind of thing.
But it's the more I talk tofolks, ellie, and the more
people get into the work they go.

(33:39):
Whoa, i have been living infunctional freeze from probably
before I was born.
Because if a mom is carrying alittle one in utero and she is
not connected to her emotionsand even feeling the interaction
with little one inside there,isn't that nice.

(33:59):
That symbiotic relationship ofcommunication and little one
that's growing inside gets themessage of oh, whenever there's
an emotion, let's throw somestress chemicals on it and shut
everything down.
Or every time there's emotioncould be the opposite let's rage
and get really obnoxious andraise our cortisol and all of

(34:21):
that, and then little one learnsthat.
So there's not just one or theother, it depends on so many
factors.
Yeah, i hope that clarifies all.
Definitely Does that make sense.

Irene Lyon (34:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no , it's, it's.
It was really good explanation,thank you.
If you're listening to this andrealizing that you've been
stuck in fight or flight orfreeze energy and you want to
learn more about this nervoussystem work and how to release
this stored survival stress fromyour nervous system, then go to
sexmoneyragecom.
Sign up for my free emails.
I talk about all of this stuffand more how to get into your

(34:55):
body, into your nervous systemand into feeling these emotions
in a physiological way, so thatit's released from your nervous
system and your body for good.
Check it out Sexmoneyragecom.
Yeah, it's almost, as you said,that the cement being piled on
and it's like you know you'reunderneath all of that is all
this energy of emotions thathaven't been released at the
time, and so, yeah, and so doyou find.

(35:19):
I mean you would know frompeople doing your course that as
they start doing this work andpaying attention to their body,
they start to feel, oh, there'ssome stuff in there that needs
to come out.

Ellie Goode (35:29):
They feel all sorts of things and it's it can be
shocking, because if you've hadagain it's a good analogy this
layer of thin cement and then ithardens, but you get used to
moving around it, right.
And another layer, and oh, it'sa little tight, oh, i'll just

(35:50):
get used to moving around it.
And then, before you know it,you have no clue how many layers
are there.
And so when you start to takethese layers off and everyone's
different, but a generalconsensus that folks say is I'm
feeling more pain becausethey've masked the pain I'm

(36:11):
feeling more what we would callanxiety, which is simply
survival energy.
It's the fight flight that wasburied under that cement, and so
that can come with, you know,the heart rate racing that can
come with panic fear, sometimesthe not sometimes a lot of the

(36:32):
times the internal organs,because the digestion detox
lymph brain immune.
That is governed by theautonomic nervous system.
So when you start to lift thefreeze response off, the system
might become more sympatheticAnd so there might be, you know,

(36:53):
a flip and digestion.
So someone's like, oh yeah, mydigestion is just great, and
then and then the bowels aremoving way more and it's a
little alarming, but the systemis.
It's like it's been in one areaI'm using my hand to kind of
represent a pendulum and itswings the other way, and so
it's like this is crazy, wedon't know how to deal with this

(37:13):
, and then it poof, it goes theother way.
So it's kind of an interestingthing.
When I was coming out offunctional freeze There was this
was years ago there was amoment where I actually had
intestinal upset, which I'msomeone who never had that And I
remember my my belly bloatedlike insane for no reason, and

(37:37):
it was this read rejigging of myautonomic nervous system.
Some folks will get sick because, you know, their immune system
has been so primed to fight.
It's just vigilant, like we gotto protect this one like crazy.
And then when you take a bit ofthat fight, flight energy off,

(37:59):
it allows the system to kind ofactually collapse a little
because it's been so on guard.
And then that's when you cansuccumb to something.
And so when you don'tunderstand that, you can
sometimes think, oh, what am Idoing wrong?
What's what's happening Like?
and sometimes, yes, you,sometimes you might get sick

(38:19):
because you're run down, you'renot filled with good nutrients,
and that's true.
But there's also thisinteresting reshaping of the
system body like the posture.
As the posture changes, aperson might feel more clumsy
Because their sense of self andtheir kinesthetic awareness is

(38:41):
like I have these arms andthey're.
You know, when teenage boys getour girls really, you know,
when they grow like five inchesin a matter of two months, like
they hit themselves, they'rebumping into things and it's
because the system hasn't caughtup to that change.
And so, um, yeah, the nervoussystem is interesting because as

(39:02):
you start to heal it and comeout of that functional freeze,
what occurs I wish you knowthere was like a list of these
are the five things that alwaysoccur.
We don't know, memories mightcome back.
People's memories of terriblethings might come back,
sometimes memories of goodthings, right, even brain, you

(39:28):
know, i remember there's beenmoments where I might, my voice,
my speech, just isn't working.
Or you go to write somethingAnd then you don't remember how
to write words.
Wow, and it's not becauseyou've had a stroke, it's just
because there's been arestructuring of the system.
And then the other thing thatoften occurs, ellie, is people's
food preferences shift becausethey're listening more deeply to

(39:51):
what their body actually needs.
And that can be a tricky one,because if someone's been a
specific kind of eater, like Iam, a this I am that it can
throw them off because they'relike well, this is how I eat,
but my body is wanting this andI'm confused, and that is an
interesting shift for somepeople to you know, that's where

(40:14):
it's like well, you follow yourimpulse and the impulse will be
completely opposite to theirfood choices.
Yeah, there's so many ways thatthings shift.

Irene Lyon (40:25):
Yeah, it's interesting, especially the food
, the food thing, because I'venoticed, the more I've done this
work and gone on this path, youwrite it can get a bit hairy
before it starts to clear up,but it but I think you've wrote
in an email once to about, asyou do this work, more and more,
like you can become moresensitive to certain things And
so you know, like I can't havecaffeine anymore because my

(40:48):
hands crack and dry out And Ithink part of it is to do with
the altitude.
But yeah, really, reallyinteresting, you know, so I've
had to shape, reshape my dietjust to be like, well, that's
not working right now.
Hopefully one day I can havecoffee again.
But yeah, it's interesting Likeyou start to go, yeah.

Ellie Goode (41:08):
The other one that more and more people are talking
about these days which is goodis sensitivity to chemicals and
perfumes and just things thatwe've accepted as just part of
culture, and so many of thethings that were surrounded with

(41:29):
are poison, you know, like allthe detergents, the strong sense
, the scented candles, the airfresheners, so like just really
toxic to our hormones.
Actually they're calledendocrine disruptors And what
people will find is that as theybecome more regulated, they

(41:49):
can't stand these, they can'tstand to put perfume on, they
can't stand the lotions.
That they just don't even.
You know one point they didn'tsmell And now they're like, and
some might say, oh well, nowyou're becoming overly sensitive
, but that's actually good,because that stuff is
technically poison.
And so in the wild, you know,animals aren't putting candles

(42:12):
in their dens and spraying youknow, spray when they take a
poop in the woods.
It's what it is, and we'vegotten more so in North America.
Europe is a little less heavyfrom what I've experienced with.
I don't know what it's like inSouth America, but here I hate
getting into a cab, for instance, because usually that's just

(42:34):
filled with that stuff.
So one thing people, one thingpeople will notice, is they just
don't have tolerance for thatanymore.
My hope is that as more peoplelearn this, there is a demand to
not have those things thataren't necessary.
Yeah, you know, if you just ifyou just keep something clean
with jet, like just simple soapand water, you don't need all

(42:57):
these things.
So that's another piece that Ihave found, because a lot of
folks will swing and be likethis is insane.
My hope is that that shifts andwill just become more conscious
around not having thoseproducts everywhere.
That's my hope at least.

Irene Lyon (43:16):
Yeah, yeah, well, time will tell.
Hopefully things will shift.
And so you mentioned earlierrage and the child not not being
able to express it or lookingto mom and and being confused,
and so I guess, for, for some ofyour students, what are some of
the things that you?
could you help them or advisethem how to start working with

(43:37):
this rage?
Because I know for me, likewhen I started working with it,
there was a lot of it that cameup and and it could be.
You know, it's like trying notto get overwhelmed by it, but
then also rage is, like you said, link to setting boundaries and
even motivation and gettingstuff done and going after your
goals.
So how would I guess you, yeah,talk about some healthy ways

(44:00):
maybe to work with rage and andapproach that?

Ellie Goode (44:04):
That's sort of the spectrum, so the pure emotion we
would call its anger.
And so anger is like one of thesix basic mammalian emotions of
joy, surprise, sadness, disgust, fear and anger.
So if you think of like aspectrum, like a line that's

(44:24):
horizontal, you might have angerin the middle And then as you
go one way you might have justmild aggression, frustration,
irritation, like those are lightversions of anger.
But then if we think of youknow, i'm driving on the road
and someone cuts me off, i'mgoing to get angry Right, and I

(44:47):
I'm not someone who's going tochase that person down and, you
know, gun them down with my caror whatever The person that that
can't process that anger andknows that doesn't make sense to
get into an accident to teachthem a lesson.
We can say that that becomesviolence.

(45:08):
So that's like the very far endis things becoming violent.
Rage is an interesting onebecause anger can tip to that
rage and I'm not going to screambecause it'll distort my mic,
but it's like that.
That's like like just create,like I can't handle it and
stomping and a verge of likehurting things but not, and so

(45:36):
that is natural.
And so if we think of someonewho is attacked right,
physically, sexually, verballythere is a desire in that person
who's being attacked to protect.
Of course, for many people it'snot going to happen because
chances are it won't be usefulto attack because you might get

(45:59):
hurt more.
So we shut it down, right?
This goes back to that freezething.
So when someone knows that theyprobably have anger and then
that whole spectrum of all theother things, sometimes, usually
, it will pop out in ways thatare kind of explosive, like it

(46:20):
isn't just little mildfrustrations, it is that I just
want to hit my kid.
And this is what happens inhouseholds, right?
A parent doesn't know how toprocess and integrate their rage
and it turns to violencebecause they don't know how to
direct that energy in a positiveway out of their bodies and
they're not harming anotherperson or the stuff around them.

(46:43):
You know the classic punchingyour fist through a wall kind of
thing.

Irene Lyon (46:48):
It happens in the movies all the time.

Ellie Goode (46:54):
That wall is so thin If I did that here, that
would break my knuckles.
But like so, that's like that,that's that spectrum.
And so, in a perfect worldwhere someone is titrating which
is a fancy word for going slowand learning these things slowly
rather than you know, if I usemy concrete example, we don't

(47:20):
want to break the concrete inone big piece and shatter it.
When we're uncovering ourlayers, we want to, like, take
one off and another off.
So if we do it that way, withthe slow way of entering back
and getting to know our body andlearning some theory and doing
some movement and orienting andall these things, we might like

(47:41):
notice, huh, a little frustratedtoday, like everything's just
pissing me off, you know.
And so that might be anindication that that sympathetic
fight flight is starting tobubble up.
And so, again, you don't wantto hurt anyone, harm yourself,
screw you, you know, by doingsomething stupid.

(48:01):
But this is where stomp yourfeet, you know, this is where I
would teach people what is yourimpulse.
Maybe you need to like squeezesomething like a towel, which is
what we teach people.
Maybe we need to, you know,stomp on the ground or push
against a wall and just get thatfrustration out.
And then, as you take some ofthose layers off, you start to

(48:25):
realize, huh, I actually feel abit better Now that I've let
that energy out.
And then it lets, you know,okay, anger, rage, frustration,
irritation it's not bad.
No, i'm okay.
I actually feel better.
There's a lightness through myarms because I've released that
charge.
It then allows bigger bolusesof anger and rage to come out

(48:49):
And, you know, this is whereit's important for the person to
stay connected to the ground,connected to the here and now,
because some things that getworked on, when you get to that
level of being able to reallyexpress big, big fight flight
energy.
I call it kill energy, seth,and I would also call my husband

(49:12):
, who teaches with me,annihilation energy, where you
are literally imagining andfeeling the energy of wanting to
kill that person that hurt youAnd this goes against all the
grains of love and light and bekind and compassionate and
forgive.
I think that there's a placefor that, because if there

(49:33):
wasn't, we would be crazy peoplerunning around killing everyone
.
Yeah, there is that energy inthe physiology that wants to
feel the protection mechanismthat never got to happen because
of our societal conditioning ashumans.
And so in learning from, say,peter Levine, i'll never forget

(49:57):
one of the demos he did.
This was a video, so it was avideo we were watching in class
And I'll speak to it.
This woman was at home.
This is actually a really greatstory.
She came into the house and sheshe had to get ready to go out
and so she had to have a shower.
And she walked into the house,she sent something was off And

(50:22):
she thought she smelledcigarette smoke.
But she doesn't smoke and noone smokes.
But she ignored that, thatalert.
She got into her house, sheundressed, she got into the
shower and it turned out someonehad broken into her house and
was looking to attack her And heeventually did rape her and

(50:44):
left And of course she was justnot good And so she passed
forward to years later, i thinkit was.
She was still having troublewith I can't remember what it
was And it's not important, butsome kind of ailments, some kind
of I think it was more physicalailment, i think it was
headaches, maybe I can'tremember.

(51:04):
And so he's working with herAnd he's walking her through
that day And she knew somethingwas off when she smelled,
because it was.
He was clearly someone whosmoked, and when someone smokes
you it lingers on their clothesand hair and all that, and so
they kind of process that.
And then they got to this pointwhere he had her imagine and

(51:27):
this is, you know, a sessionover an hour, so I'm really
speeding this up And what wouldshe have done if she could have
done anything?
and she was using her hands inthis way, and her hands got
above her head And and he said,is like, stay there.
And she just felt it and feltit, and so she had this feeling,

(51:48):
this, this image of basicallyhaving a huge butcher knife in
her arms and her hands.
And then he had her wait untilthat feeling of rage and wanting
to kill entered, and then shejust went through the motions of
like seeing him and stabbinghim to death, and so, in a sense

(52:10):
, unlocked that tension that hadhelped and because there's no
way she was going to fight offthis person.
He was bigger than her and so,but after the fact, he, he and
this is what I would teach mystudents to do would they worked
through?
if your body could executeliterally it's kind of a funny
word but allow that movement,execute that activity.

(52:34):
It would have been for her todo that.
Now you can't then take thatsomeone might be listening to
this going.
I also was attacked.
Okay, i'll imagine taking aknife and stabbing this, this
perpetrator it won't necessarilywork because he followed her
somatic movement of her handscoming up And he didn't say to

(52:58):
her I want you to put a knife inyour hands.
Imagine this is imaginary folks.
It came to her impulse Forsomeone else.
It might have been I want totake some dynamite and blow that
person up, or I might want totake gasoline and light them on
fire, or I might want to stompon them.
You know, and I've worked withyou know many folks where all

(53:22):
those things I just saidnaturally come up.
And so this is where you alsohave to educate the person,
alley, because what will occurwhen someone isn't ready for
that, when the layers haven'tbeen slowly released?
is they all feel deep shame forwanting to harm a human?
Yeah, even though that personharmed them.

(53:43):
And this is where you know thevery like the 10 commandments
don't hurt thy neighbor.
You know all those things.
It's like yeah, yes, definitelytrue, don't?
you?
don't want to go around doingthese things, but in your animal
physiology there is this desireto rage and kill and annihilate
, and then that it just frees upso much energy And it's done in

(54:06):
a way that's safe, right, andso this is where humans are
really, really different.
You know, i don't think thatanimals see animals in the wild.
If they get attacked, they getattacked and they die.
They're not lingering with, youknow.
Or if they get attacked, they,they, they move through, and if

(54:27):
they recover and they're not,you know, feeble and and lame
they survive and they go back.
But they don't hold that memorybecause their brains aren't
developed to the degree thatours are.
And so we can hold so manymemories in our system, and the
human system is so complex.
All you have to do is studydissociative identity disorder,

(54:50):
which once was called multiplepersonality disorder, and see
how well we can compartmentalizethe feelings, and you know,
there'll be a person who willhave all these different alters.
One alters the good person, thebad person, the.
There's a great show called theUnited States of Tara.

(55:11):
Did you ever see that?

Irene Lyon (55:12):
No, I've, I've heard of it, but I haven't, I haven't
seen it.

Ellie Goode (55:16):
Oh good, tony Colette.
She's amazing And she plays awoman who has this and the whole
series is about them uncoveringwhat occurred to her when she
was young And the alters arereally cool, like she basically
is an actress that is playinglike 10, eight different

(55:36):
characters.
So she shows how amazing she isas an actress And you see that,
and that is a really goodexample to convince people how
much stuff we can store and howmany memories we can store.
So, to answer your questionabout rage, that's like a very

(55:57):
macro way, but different littleexamples, and then the final
thing I'll say is it's part ofus, it's our birthright, and
babies express aggression inhealthy ways by, like pulling on
mom's hair and, you know,pounding their little fists and
feeling energy and pulling, youknow, and we want to cultivate

(56:18):
that in a contained way thatlets them feel their strength,
and so many of us didn't getthat.
So when we start to feel ourstrength, it gets a bit scary,
and then this transfer is into,you know, career and how we work
is sometimes we need to push alittle.
You know, we need to put oursome people say our big girl

(56:39):
pants on or big boys pants onand all the other foul sayings
that I won't I won't utter rightnow, but, like you know, strap
that on and get some energy inthere and do the work.
But again, if we're stuck inthis freeze, this functional
freeze, it's going to feel scaryto be a little aggressive with

(57:01):
our career, and not in a bad way, in a go forth and like be
powerful way.
And I learned from Peter thatthe word aggression comes from
the Latin, a grady, which meansto push forward, to break
through.
It's not about violence, it'sabout, it's about pushing

(57:21):
through and and that life force,energy.
So I love that rage, anger,aggression, but violence, that's
the one we don't want, right?
Yeah, that's.
That's the one that happenswhen we don't know how to
process, and that's where badthings, that's.
That's where people that areviolent get it.
It's not cause they're you know, it's not cause they're trying

(57:43):
to be malicious, they don't knowany other way.

Irene Lyon (57:46):
Yeah, They don't have that outlet, that healthy
outlet, to release.

Ellie Goode (57:50):
No, Yeah, And they probably didn't have it from a
very young age.
Yeah, Right, Yeah, Often.
I'm not an expert in serialkillers, but often those folks
are quite calm And when you lookin their eyes they're dead.
It's just this blank slate,vacant, exactly.

(58:10):
There's like the soul has beenturned off and it's like well,
that's why the because how couldthe people will say how can
they do this?
That's why they're completelyshut down and they're looking.
They're looking for that energy.
That's why people do drugs andtense drugs, right.
They want that high or thedrugs that bring down.

Irene Lyon (58:30):
They need that low Right Cause they haven't got
that built in their system.
Exactly Fascinating, oh, icould talk all day about this
stuff.
It's awesome And so and Iwanted to ask us to sort of talk
about rage.
You sort of mentioned, in thecontext of working and business,
just some of the benefitsyou've seen in students who have

(58:51):
started to learn to peel backthose concrete layers and to
follow their impulse and toreally harness their rage in a
healthy way, whether it'sthrough a towel or stomping.
Just some of the benefits interms of what they've gone on to
do.

Ellie Goode (59:06):
Yeah, I'd say that the the most important thing is
it lets them break through theresistance Kind of a buzzword
these days.
Steven Pressfield popularizedit in his book the war of art, i
believe And that resistancethat comes up and stops you from

(59:29):
doing what you're supposed todo.
Some people say and he will saythat it's always there, that
you can never break free of it.
I would love to sit down withhim and have a conversation and
teach him about nervous systemphysiology, cause it's like,
actually, when you have a solid,healthy nervous system and you

(59:49):
know how to feel, your fight,flight, life force, energy, you
don't need to break through thatresistance because it's just,
it's like it makes it obsolete.
And so the few folks that I ammore connected with who are
building businesses and usingthis nervous system lens, they

(01:00:12):
will say that they catchthemselves much quicker dilly
dallying, you know, not focusingAnd if they can really stay
connected with their body, ithelps push forward.
But it's just when the monthwhen they're just working with
the mind or the higher brain,it's like it's like you're

(01:00:33):
working with one cylinder, sothe more one can be regulated in
their nervous system and learnthe tools and all the skills
that I teach and you and yourbrother have learned, for
example, it's like the impulsesare clear, the gut hits are
clear.
Of course you have to followthem.

(01:00:55):
Yeah, because because we arevery clever as humans and we can
deke ourselves out and andconvince ourselves that that
impulse isn't right.
And maybe it isn't right, maybeit's the beginnings of trial
and error where you actually domake the wrong decision.
But for the most part, i haveseen my folks who are getting

(01:01:18):
this on board and using theirhealthy aggression, their
healthy life force, theirimpulse, they're, they're,
they're building their businessfrom their body and they're got
not so much the heart or thehead Like the head still has to
do the analytical work But theheart would be in, you know,
having compassion for youremployee who's just having a

(01:01:40):
hard time, like it's okay totake the day off, that kind of
thing.
But that gut, if we reallythink of, if we bring the soul
in and like the authenticity ofwhat each of us are supposed to
do here on this planet.
It's hard to do that when we'renot connected to our body,
because our body is the vesselthat drives that stuff And

(01:02:04):
there's some that would argue no, it's not the body, it's the
energy and the soul.
It's like, yes, that's true,but this body holds that stuff.
It's like the ship.
It's like if you have a ship,the ship doesn't do anything if
there isn't a crew inside doingthe stuff Right.
And so you need that body, butyou also need all the innards
working properly.

(01:02:25):
And so I mean, like I said, irarely have resistance, if at
all, with my work And ininstalling those elements of
going with the gut and listening, and it just things just open
up in ways that you can'texplain.

(01:02:49):
So I would say it is essentialmaterial for work, business
creation, projects, when aperson is ready for that and
wanting to do that.

Irene Lyon (01:03:05):
Yeah, that's cool.
It reminds me of what you saidabout the lady in the cigarette
smoke.
It's like learning to attune tothese signals, because our body
can pick up on these things somuch quicker than our mind.
I mean, you know, sometimesI'll knock a cup off the bench
and I've before I know what.
I've caught the cup and I haveno idea how it happens.
But it's just, the body hasthese incredible reflexes and

(01:03:29):
impulses that when we start totune in, yeah, it's when the
magic really happens.

Ellie Goode (01:03:35):
Oh, definitely, yeah, I've been really into lots
of Marvel shows lately and itmakes me think of the movie
Doctor Strange, the first one,where he is getting his skills
and you know, and just thatyou're right, like just being
able to catch things and balance, and that you have to kind of
accept that that magic.

(01:03:56):
But it's like, is it magic oris it just how we're supposed to
be?
Yeah, true, Or both.

Irene Lyon (01:04:06):
Yeah Yeah, So cool.
We're almost on time.
But before we wrap up, ifpeople want, I know you've got
some amazing online courses thatI've done, but if people wanted
to find out more about you andyour work and maybe do one of
your courses, what's the bestplace to find?

Ellie Goode (01:04:20):
you Just my name, so Irene lioncom, l Y O Ncom.
Everything is there.
There's a lot there, so do notbe overwhelmed.
For those that are new, we'retrying to create a better page
That's a bit more basic, butthere are there.
You will find more of myhistory, my YouTube channel

(01:04:43):
links, all my classes, courses.
There's ebooks.
I would say, if someone'swanting to just start the work,
the 21 day nervous system tuneup is the best place to start.
And then, when we run smartbody, smart mind, which is the
longer curriculum, get into that, because that really is the,

(01:05:04):
the, the holy grail, if you will, of all of the things I
mentioned at the start of ourtalk.
Ellie, that it brings in theFeldenkrais, the somatic
experiencing in the early traumaelements, whereas the 21 days
is more of a.
It's still wonderful, but itdoesn't bring in the early
trauma elements and there's lesssomatic work only because you

(01:05:27):
can only get so far in 21 days.
Sure, but the education basicsare in that program, along with
some some good practical toolsAwesome.

Irene Lyon (01:05:39):
Awesome, sounds exciting.
Well, i highly recommend itguys.
I've done the SPSM, which isthe 12 week course, and highly
recommend it.
So, yeah, check it out.
And thank you, Irene, forcoming on and sharing your
knowledge.

Ellie Goode (01:05:54):
It was a good fun chat.
I enjoyed it, ellie, thanks.

Irene Lyon (01:05:57):
Awesome.
Thanks for listening And,before you go, if you have 30
seconds to please leave a fivestar reading or review on
whatever platform you'relistening on Spotify, Apple,
wherever I would be super, superappreciative.
It just helps get the word out,especially as it's a new
podcast, If you've already doneit.
Thank you so so much.
I will catch you all next time.