Ever wondered about the fascinating world of somatic sexology? Join us as we uncover this intriguing field with Uma Ayelet from the Institute of Somatic Sexology.
Our enlightening conversation gathers momentum as Uma shares her unique journey that beautifully amalgamates the spiritual aspects of sex with the practical techniques of somatic sexology.
This body-based approach to sex - focusing on the physical aspects - brings about a new perspective on how the mind and body interact, leading to a more satisfying sexual experience for you and your partner.
In our discussion, Uma sheds light on how individual arousal and pleasure can be enhanced, giving you the tools to be more present and in-tune during your sexual experiences.
Uma emphasizes the importance of mindfulness and experimenting with various types of touch, showcasing how this practice can lead to a more intimate and pleasurable sexual journey. We also explore the fascinating world of hormonal cycles and how understanding these can empower you in your sexual life.
We discuss the importance of somatic sex coaching and how it can help people gain a better understanding of their bodies, arousal patterns, and self-practice (which can vastly improve their romantic and sexual relationships.
We also explore the empowering practice of taking responsibility for your own pleasure. Get ready to be enlightened as we share the wisdom and insights of Uma and the intriguing world of somatic sexology. Dive in, the water's warm!
Connect with Uma: https://instituteofsomaticsexology.com/
Past episodes and show notes are located here: https://www.sexmoneyrage.com/podcast
"Genuinely thank you for creating this space for people like-minded to talk openly and feel OK to talk about these things." Beau, Australia
Disclaimer:
I do not promote trying plant medicine or psychedelics (they are a whole other beast). All information provided is for general information and educational purposes only. Please consult with your doctor and do your own research before diving in. There are risks involved, it can interact with certain medications, and it's illegal in most Western countries.
I'm not a doctor, therapist, or counsellor, and nothing said on the podcast is a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, treatment, or a professional therapeutic relationship. All content is intended to provide general health information for educational purposes only.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellie Goode (00:00):
Today I am here with Uma from the Institute of
Sematic Sexology and reallyinterested to have a chat today
with you, uma.
But firstly, how are you, how'sit going this morning?
Uma Ayelet (00:12):
I'm doing really well.
I'm here in sunny Brisbane,australia.
We're having a beautiful springday, so I'm enjoying all the
flowers opening and the weatherwarming up and, yeah, feels
quite joyful in my body today.
Thanks for asking, nice.
Ellie Goode (00:33):
That's good.
No, I love, I love spring andwe're actually going into rainy
season here, so everythinghopefully will start turning
green soon, because it's beenreally dry and dusty.
So, yeah, it's, it's cool beingin nature, but, yeah, maybe we
can start off by sort of talkinga bit about maybe who you are
and what you do, and maybe whatis somatic sexology for people
(00:56):
who don't know.
Uma Ayelet (00:58):
Yeah, that's a really great question because
not that many people know.
So I my name is Uma, and I amwhat I sometimes.
I say I'm a somatic sexologist,or sometimes I would say that I
am a somatic sex educator,depending who I'm speaking to.
(01:19):
What I do is I work withpeople's sex and sexuality, but
I do it in a somatic way.
Somatic means, in two words, ofthe body, where.
(01:39):
So when we look at sex andsexuality, there are lots of
different things that come intoplay for humans.
We have a lot of stuff that goeson cognitively for us and we
have a lot of stuff that goes onphysically for us, and my
specialty is working with thephysical aspect of sex and
(02:02):
sexuality and arousal andpleasure, and helping people
access more pleasure in theirbodies.
We we live in a world that'svery much focused on the
cognitive and narrative, andwe're very intelligent creatures
and we spend a lot of time inour heads and we spend a lot of
(02:23):
our sex lives in our heads too,and that has great benefits and
that is super important.
But most people have not spenta lot of time fostering those
same aspects in their bodies.
So that's my specialty, where Isupport people, walk beside
(02:47):
them, teach them how to accessthose beautiful sensations that
are available to everybody andanybody, right here, right now
in magnificent bodies.
So in essence, that's what I doand I'm part of an institute we
(03:09):
are the Institute of SomaticSexology and we train
practitioners.
So people come to us who wantto become somatic sexologist or
somatic sex educators and wehave different courses that we
offer Practitioners so they cango and support even more people
(03:29):
around the world.
Ellie Goode (03:32):
Amazing.
I love it.
I'm a huge fan of, I guess,more the body based modalities.
I think they're very underratedand I think it's really cool to
be able to pair the somatickind of framework or methodology
with sexuality, like youmentioned.
I think that's really cool.
And so how did you get intosomatic sexology?
(03:52):
What sort of drew you in?
Uma Ayelet (03:56):
I was always a very sexually curious person and in
my early 20s I got interested inmore esoteric forms of
sexuality like Taoism and Tantraand sexual shamanism.
(04:17):
I realized I found out thatthere was all these ancient
teachings around sex andsexuality that were very
different, almost opposite towhat I knew about what sex was
and how sex felt for me.
So I started studying all ofthese teachings and they are
(04:41):
very somatic, because Tantra,taoism, all lots of different
ancient teachings are a lotabout the body and the subtle
sensations that we can developin the body, and so I got into
it from that more, I guess,esoteric, spiritual realm, and
(05:06):
then I discovered that there wasan emerging new form that was
called somatic sexology.
I discovered that peoplestarted teaching sexology in a
somatic way.
So sexology has traditionallybeen a very analytical, very
(05:31):
cognitive what would you call it?
Profession or body of work, andthis is fairly new.
The idea of somatic sexology.
It's not new because peoplethought about it 5000, 6000
years ago already, but they justcalled it something else, and
(05:54):
so I love the old teachings.
I think they have a lot in therefor us, but they're not always
that applicable to modern lifeand to modern people and they're
not always that applicable ifyou perhaps are not seeking a
(06:15):
spiritual experience, or perhapssitting a little bit outside
the old boxes of masculine andfeminine and men and women, or
perhaps if you're not that intoidea of energy and energy flow
(06:36):
and all those woo-woo thingsthat some people really resonate
with and other people just wantnothing to do with.
And so somatic sexology kind ofcame out of a lot of somatic
methods that started developingin the 60s, 70s and 80s around
the world, a lot of somaticpsychotherapy that came out and
(07:02):
also a lot of methods aroundmovement, around breathing
around.
So we look at, okay, what arethese elements that help our
body thrive, what are theseelements that help our body feel
(07:24):
more and access more sensation,and how can we harness those
elements when we look atsexuality?
And so that's been my journeyaround it and I do a bit of
everything.
Now I love the spiritual aspectof sexuality.
I still practice tantra, Istill teach it, I still study
(07:50):
those more esoteric realms, butwhat I teach and what I pass on
is more, I guess, moreapplicable and more modern and
more relevant, I feel.
Ellie Goode (08:07):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, that's really cool.
I yeah, I think that's superinteresting, sort of yeah, what
you said about it beingpreviously being quite
analytical and now kind ofbringing in that physical
element, the somatic element,you know, playing with
sensations and, I guess,reconnecting the body and the
mind because they are veryclosely interlinked.
(08:29):
And so do you find that byworking with the body in the, in
this like somatic sexology,that that helps the brain or the
mind, or how do you see thatrelationship?
Uma Ayelet (08:41):
Well, we're kind of separating them artificially.
Really, the mind and the bodyare one and the same, like we
have this artificial separationto talk about it.
But absolutely, when you learnthings through your body, you're
changing your neurology in yourbrain.
When you learn new things inyour brain cognitive you're also
(09:01):
changing neurology and so,particularly when it comes to
sexuality, we most people on theplanet are really really good
at thinking of sex, fantasizingabout sex, watching sex, and we
(09:22):
call that the psychogenicarousal pathway.
I think of something it turns meon that's called psychogenic
arousal.
We're not that great at thesomatic pathway of arousal and
so often what happens is sex isvery much in the brain but then
(09:44):
it's felt very little in thebody because there are all these
habits and patterns that havebeen created over the years that
are actually blocking sensationrather than helping us feel
more and, ideally, to havereally great sex.
We want both of those switchedon.
We want to understand ourpsychogenic arousal and our
(10:06):
fantasies and desires and whatturns us on and who turns us on,
and play with it and explore it.
But we want to also feel it inour bodies in the best possible,
in the most possible way we canand we can, and so when someone
comes to me and says, oh, I canthink about sex, and that turns
(10:29):
me on a lot, and if I try notto think about sex I end up
thinking about a whole bunch ofother random stuff and that
completely turns me off, I know,okay, the somatic element has
not been switched on.
So what we have to do, at leastin the beginning, is put the
psychogenic bit aside anddevelop the somatic aspect.
(10:53):
So then eventually a person haschoice.
A person can either just be inthe feeling or just be in the
thinking, or have them bothcoming together, like weave them
together and in any shape, wayor form that they want to.
But most people that have thathave come across are lacking of
(11:15):
that choice.
A lot of people don't even knowthat there is a choice.
Actually, I didn't know therewas a choice before I came into
this world.
Ellie Goode (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense, I think.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't realize.
It's something I talked to afriend about.
Is you know?
It's all well and good to lookback and be like, oh, now I know
what it means to be in my body,but before you've had that
experience of feeling what itfeels like to be in your body,
it's very hard to conceptualize.
(11:46):
I've found, like, how, say,someone came to you and there
like it sounds like a lot ofpeople there in their head,
they're, you know, thinking andthey're not in their body.
What's sort of the process toget them to drop into their body
?
What it?
How do you sort of get them tostart focusing on sensations and
things to bring that sexualpleasure on board even more?
Uma Ayelet (12:08):
We look at the five somatic pillars or somatic tools
.
We've got breath, movement,placement of awareness, what are
you doing with your mind?
We've got sound and touch.
So we have those five elements.
The more elements weincorporate and the more
(12:30):
elements we have going in onetime, the more full I experience
in our body will be.
And so each person is a littlebit different because they will
have things that resonate withthem, that feel really good when
they do it, and other thingsare a bit more tricky for them.
So I look at these fiveelements with a person and we'll
(12:54):
say, okay, where, where shouldwe begin?
Where where's a good place tostart?
Do we want and, and so and it'salways a collaborative effort
because every person is sounique and it's not for me to
decide what's good for them.
It's for the person that comesto me to understand the
possibilities and say that'swhat I want or this is what I
(13:16):
want, and we decide whichelement we're going to start
with and start exploring it.
So let's say you said to me oh,I'm really interested in breath
.
I think that will be a good wayfor me to start connecting with
our body.
So we try lots of differentthings around breath, different
types of breath that createdifferent sensations in your
(13:40):
body, and through thiscollaborative effort we figure
out what works for you.
So I just throw a whole lot ofdifferent ideas at people and
they throw them back at me andsometimes they say, yeah, that
one's great, or I hate that one,that's shit.
So we throw it out.
Or this one's okay, but it'snot sitting quite right, and so
(14:00):
we tailor it to whatever worksfor that person, and that
changes with time as well.
But we've got us, we need toget in somehow, and so we find
it.
I find I try and find theeasiest way to get in, and so we
say, okay, let's just add thosetwo or three breaths that
(14:22):
you've learned to all the sexyou're having right now.
Don't change anything else, howyou masturbating, how you're
having sex with your partner.
Just add this breath and let'ssee what happens.
It's a bit of an experiment,right, and then they'll come
back to me and say, well, thisis what happened and that's what
happened.
And then we see what's beenworking and what's been not
(14:47):
working.
Meaning I tried this breath.
I got so distracted I couldn'tfeel anything.
So, okay, maybe that's notquite the way or maybe we need
to practice it a bit more on itsown before we integrate it in
to this, to sex, and then wealso look at how we integrate it
in as well, because when we'rehaving sex, either with
(15:15):
ourselves or with another person, a lot of the times we're
really invested in that.
We want to have a good time, wewant the other person to have a
good time.
It's not always that easy to trynew things, especially things
that you on a bit, you feel abit clunky around.
(15:37):
There's the new things of oh,let's try this new sexual
position or I've got this newtoy.
But when it comes to changinghow our bodies react in the
moment, when we in a state ofarousal, it's not so easy.
Our sexual habits are reallyprobably some of our strongest
(15:57):
habits that we have and so wealso need to work at okay, let's
say we worked out that doingthese three breaths helps you
really feel really open andreally relaxed and you think
it's a really good idea to startintegrating into your sex life.
How do we integrate it?
(16:17):
How do we bring it in and again, that's individual for each
person how do we titrate in thateventually it feels kind of
natural and flows, and that's ahard thing to do on your own.
It's really useful to havesomeone walking beside you that
you can say, that you can comeback and feedback with, and, and
(16:41):
that's where practitioners arereally important.
There's a lot of informationthat you can get online amazing
books we are in an unprecedentedtime of in information and
there's some incredible thingsout there.
But often people try to dosomething.
It sounds like a good idea,they try it, but they they don't
(17:04):
necessarily know exactly how totitrate it or how to transition
it, and that's when apractitioner working with a
practitioner can be so importantdo you find that like?
Ellie Goode (17:18):
so people who are in, I guess, relationships, if
one partner's sort of on boardwith it and practicing it, does
the other partner need to be, oris it something that people can
do on their own, or how does itall that work?
Uma Ayelet (17:31):
it can be either.
So, when we think of oursexuality, that there's the
sexuality that we have withourselves, and then there's how
we relate to others.
What you have with yourself hasis not impacted by whether your
(17:55):
partner is into changinganything or not, and it's and
and self-practice for me is thefoundation of sex and sexuality
and I wish there was moreattention to it.
I wish there were teachingyoung people how to have amazing
self-practice sessions and howto activate their bodies,
(18:17):
because once you have thatfoundation in your own body,
you're already relatingdifferently to someone else,
whether they're doing somethingelse or not, instead of just
projecting oh, they're not doingwhat I want.
How about learning what it isthat you want?
How about getting really greatat accessing all the pleasure in
(18:39):
your body?
How about getting really greatat articulating what it is that
works for you?
All of those things that we canreally learn on us, on on our
own, whether our partners areinto changing anything in the
relating or not, but you'rechanging yourself, it will
impact the relations thatthey're relating anyway.
(19:00):
And, yes, when partners areinterested, then absolutely we
can go from there, because thereare lots of things that you can
kind of harness your partner todo a lot of practices, wait,
that you can do with a partnertogether and that creates a
(19:20):
whole very unique experience.
But just because a partner isnot interested doesn't mean that
you should avoid doing thiswork for sure, for sure.
Ellie Goode (19:35):
I remember when I I didn't even know semantics,
sexology was the thing.
I kind of ended up doing it.
I guess by accident I got very,very much got into semantics.
Maybe four years ago I startedseeing a somatic counselor and
then I started getting intodoing, I guess, regular somatic
exercises, sort of day to dayabout three years ago, and it
(19:57):
was really interesting.
I can't remember what made methink to do it, but I started
going, oh, like I wonder whathappens if I pair these
techniques of, you know, feelingthe ground or paying attention,
like you said, to differentsensations or movement, bringing
that awareness in of thephysical body.
What if I brought that into thesexual realm?
And it was like it blew my mind, like it was like having sex
(20:19):
for the first time it's right,oh, my god, like how?
yeah, it's like what was I doingbefore you know?
Uma Ayelet (20:25):
so, like I think, well done for integrating it.
Ellie Goode (20:29):
You can do thanks, yeah, it was.
It's been a lot of fun.
I think like super empoweringas well and bringing you into
the present moment as well, butalso, just like you said, it
heightens the sensations in thebody.
It's like improved myrelationship with myself and and
and with other people as well.
(20:49):
I think that was a really coolpoint you made about.
You know, like as you becomemore embodied or more present in
your physical body, you know inthe sexual realm, like you're
going to change the way yourelate to people and your
partner and whoever, and andprobably without even realizing
it, you know you'll be more ableto speak up and say, oh, can
you, can you do this, or can wedo that, or yeah, it's, it's
(21:12):
really cool yeah, it inevitablychanges the relationship for the
better and or sometimes itchanges the relationship when
you realize you're in the wrongrelationship because the partner
your partner can't meet yourneeds and that's that's can.
Uma Ayelet (21:27):
That can be sad but also useful, but it it's.
It certainly does, and I foundover the years that, by me being
open and embodied and alive, itencouraged my partners to do
the same, because we all say, oh, I want what she's having.
(21:49):
Yeah, you know your partner cansay, oh my god, she's having
such a great time.
I want to do that too.
So it's that kind of curiositythat sparks other people's
willingness to explore and tolearn and and to see different
things.
But we can't.
It's not our job to change ourpartners.
It's it's our job to changeourselves absolutely, absolutely
(22:14):
.
Ellie Goode (22:14):
And do you find I mean I assume this would be
pretty common but for somepeople, like I guess there's for
a lot of people, there'sprobably a reason.
They're not in their body,whether it's that they don't
feel safe or they'reuncomfortable, or maybe just
that they don't know how tobeing that we live in a very
mental society.
But do you find I guess peoplehave, I guess, triggers or
(22:35):
things that come up from thatthey're dealing with when
they're kind of going throughthese practices, where they
maybe have to, you know, in themiddle of sex, say like let's,
let's take a pause, like I can'tkeep going at the moment, like
I just need a five minute breakor or whatever, like do you find
that people sort of have thoseissues come up?
Uma Ayelet (22:55):
they can, and again, it depends how much trauma
you're carrying.
I think it can be even.
If so, when you startconnecting with what's happening
in your body, regardless ofwhether it's through sex or just
through other somatic practicesthat are non-sexual, you feel
(23:17):
more, and you feel more.
You can feel more pleasure, butyou also feel all sorts of
emotions that are sitting in thebody.
You can have, all of a sudden,a flow of sadness or a flow of
anger, or a flow of joy.
I don't know if did that happento you when you first started
doing the work?
Ellie Goode (23:36):
Yeah, absolutely well, it was interesting.
It sort of became like a vesselfor like processing or
releasing emotion.
Like, weirdly enough, it waslike I'd have this rage come up
and then I was able to sort ofchannel the rage and express it
through a sexual practice whichlack again was really really
cool because I guess, from thenervous system angle, when
(23:59):
you're in a sexual situation,whether on your own or with
someone else or other people,you're in a heightened, more of
a sympathetic state.
So rage and grief and theseother emotions often come out
when you're in a sympatheticstate.
So it made a lot of sense andit was really helpful to be able
to channel that through anactivity and release it in that
(24:21):
way.
But yeah, for sure, there weretimes when I had to say to
someone like look, I can't keepgoing, like I have to stop.
Yeah, and you know, somepartners obviously are more
understanding than others, butyou know, most people are
actually really good, thankfully, absolutely.
For me.
It was like it's like saying nois like it felt like such a
(24:42):
huge thing to do, but it was soimportant to be able to learn to
do that, regardless of theoutcome.
But, yeah, totally had thatexperience.
Uma Ayelet (24:50):
Yeah, so it is.
It's that kind of sense ofoverwhelm or emotions moving
through, and in the beginning itcan be quite disorientating and
after a while you get used toit and you understand it and you
also know what's going on.
And so part of the work ispreparing a person to say, oh,
this might happen, and when thathappens, what are we going to
(25:14):
do?
Like, like you, we're going tohave a pause, having a pause,
you don't have to push throughit, or and so what I teach
people is self-regulation.
And so, amongst other things,so when those big emotions come
up or when the rage come up, youhave a choice.
Ok, do I want to run with itand let it flow out, or do I
(25:38):
want to take myself fromsympathetic down, back down to
parasympathetic, and calm mynervous system down, Because we
have a choice, you know.
And so what do I want to do atany given moment?
So when people feel not justknow that they have a choice,
but feel in their body andexplore that in their body and
(26:02):
go, oh yeah, I can changedirection.
Look, I just changed direction.
Oh, my god.
Oh, I just did that.
I changed my breath, I changedmy touch, I asked that person to
stop and I changed direction.
That's empowerment, and so themore empowered you feel, the
more you can play with thesethings, the more brave you are
(26:24):
to go.
Yeah, let's go down that road.
And because I know I havechoice.
I know, and the other choice aswell is through communication,
which is another piece that'sreally important to teach people
around.
How do we say no easily Withoutbefore we've crossed our
(26:47):
boundaries?
How do we feel the no or thepause or the?
I need to change direction andare able to communicate it in
the moment, while we're at aheightened state, rather than
think of it, think of it, thinkof it, go past all of our
boundaries and consent andeventually say it while when
(27:10):
we're really triggered and again, that's the work that you do in
sessions.
That then helps you do that inreal life, in practice.
Ellie Goode (27:24):
Yeah.
Uma Ayelet (27:25):
But I also think that sensation, particularly
arousal, can get sometimesoverwhelming.
When you feel a lot, it'ssometimes like it can be really
overwhelming, even if it's justthat pleasure and arousal and
(27:46):
sensation.
And for some of us thatoverwhelm shuts us down.
It's a defense mechanism of thebody.
Oh, this feels like too much.
I'm done, I'm checking out, I'min my head or I've got to walk
away, and it's a little bit.
(28:09):
I think of it a little bit likefitness.
If you went into a CrossFitclass for advanced people and
you've got no fitness, you'lllast five minutes and just go.
I can't.
Your body will literally shutdown.
It's a little bit like thatwith pleasure and arousal.
(28:29):
If it's too much, too soon,your system can't handle it.
And so this is again.
It's that piece of ah.
Ok, we'll just take thisarousal slowly and have a little
bit at a time and then relaxthe body and then have a little
bit more and teach the nervoussystem how to hold first that it
(28:54):
can hold and how to hold this,all of that sensation, all of
that arousal, without gettingtoo overwhelmed or shutting down
.
Ellie Goode (29:07):
Yeah, it's almost like you're building this
capacity, this, I can handlethis a little bit.
Ok, let's do a little bit morenext time.
And then I guess that buildsself-trust as well, because
you're getting this data pointsof why I can handle this and I
can do this, and maybe I didn'tsay no that time, but I saw it
or I noticed it and I pulledback.
(29:28):
Or like seeing these littlemicro shifts happening can
definitely build a lot ofself-trust.
Uma Ayelet (29:35):
Yeah, completely, and there are two.
I'm being very binary here andI'm very much generalizing, but
what I've seen, it's that thereare the intensity junkies of us
(29:57):
where the overwhelm is just soexciting.
I'm one of those.
Let's get to the overwhelm.
Ellie Goode (30:03):
This is like oh my god, I can't even think Well,
let's just do more of that.
Uma Ayelet (30:09):
And the learning for an intensity junkie is not how
to dive right in, but how toslow down and feel those more
subtle, nuanced sensations andpleasures.
What is it like to just be alittle bit aroused and hang out
there?
What is it like to be relaxedand aroused and hang out there?
(30:31):
What happens when you just hangout there for a really long
period of time?
And so there's a whole bunch oflearning around slowing down.
And then for the other people,it is about learning to hold
that arousal, because thatintensity is too much and it
shuts you down.
And then you learn OK, I canhandle this, I can do a little
(30:53):
bit more and a little bit more.
So everybody's quite unique andit's important to.
Sometimes you listen to thingsand you read things and it's
written by someone, let's say,that really loved that intensity
and you're trying it and it'sway too much for you and you're
thinking, oh, what's wrong withme?
(31:13):
How come I'm not enjoying it?
Everybody else is saying it'ssuch a great thing.
No, it's just that your nervoussystem is structured a little
bit differently to their nervoussystem and you need to approach
it in a different way, You'renot broken.
There's nothing wrong.
It's just something foreveryone, but not the one thing
that works for all of us.
Ellie Goode (31:35):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point to
make Just that kind ofdifference between some people
are going to be more yeah, go,go, go, let's do all these
things and excitement,excitement.
And then other people are goingto be that quieter, and so it's
kind of pulling yourself intothe opposite of what you're used
(31:56):
to and just exploring thingswhich sometimes can be quite
uncomfortable.
Like I know, for me, not evenin a sexual sense, but just in a
general sense, I'm very muchalways doing something, always
on the go, Like I'm verypassionate, motivated, which
traditionally people go.
That's really good, but thenyou get burnt out and there's
all these other things that canhappen.
So for me it's been a reallygood practice to learn to slow
(32:19):
down.
I hadn't ever thought about itin a sexual context, so I think
that's really interesting toreflect on.
But I think for a lot of peopleit's learning how to slow down,
learning how to be present, andI think I guess for a lot of
people, especially myself, thething that maybe prevents people
from slowing down often is thatmind is those racing thoughts
(32:42):
and not wanting to be with that,Because sometimes it's just not
enjoyable listening to all thatstuff going in the head.
Uma Ayelet (32:50):
But yeah, Absolutely , and it takes.
So if we think of arousal andI'm speaking specifically about
sexual arousal, because thereare lots of different types of
arousal that we can experienceand if you have a tendency to be
in your head, whether it'sthrough sexual fantasy or just
(33:14):
have random thoughts coming inat all sorts of inappropriate
moments, at a certain level ofarousal we can quieten our mind
down.
The arousal itself can have animpact on our mind and help it
(33:35):
slow down a little bit.
But it's quite a high level ofarousal, like if we think of 0
to 10, with 10 being an orgasm,we're probably talking about the
7, 8, and 9.
And so, in an attempt toquieten our mind, some people
race towards that high arousal,because it is much harder to
(34:00):
stay present in those low levelsof arousal in the beginning
until you learn how to do it.
And this is why we need to, andthis is why using the body is so
important, because if I justcount on my arousal, if I have
no other skills, then yeah, I'vegot to kind of hang out in
those high numbers and I canonly hang out there for so long
(34:23):
really Not that many people canhang out there for a really long
amount of time and I'm missingout on all of that pleasure that
happens before, so much of thatpleasure that happens before.
Engorgement and pleasuresaturation and being really
expansive, all sorts of thingshappen before that we miss out
(34:47):
on, if we skip those numbers.
And so if we can use breath, ifwe can use movement, if we know
where to put our awareness andwe have some ideas of how to
give the monkey mind somethingto do, as the Buddhists say, if
(35:09):
we know how to use sound andcommunication, if we understand
touch and really understand howtouch impacts us and our bodies,
what kind of touch takes us up,brings us down, helps us feel
safe, helps us feel grounded,helps us feel pleasure all these
things then we have all thesetools and we don't just solely
(35:34):
have to lean on the arousal totake us there.
Ellie Goode (35:41):
I think that's a really cool point, especially,
like I think you mentionedbefore, with sex toys and
different things.
It's easy to use these things.
But one idea I had just then iswhat if you just stripped all
of that away and you just hadyour hands, for instance, or you
just had, like you said,physical touch, how would that
(36:01):
change your experience?
How would that change how youfelt physically?
And then it's sort of.
I remember doing a I think itwas a Tantra workshop a few
years ago, and one of theexercises they got us to do was
just different forms of touch.
So you have just regular touch.
Then you had I think it waslike fire, where you're like
(36:24):
kind of clamping the person'sarms.
You could use your nails, likeyou could sort of hover.
There's all these differentforms of touch that you can play
with, and so it's almost likebringing that curiosity into it
and experimentation to go, likeyou said, what does my body like
?
Because, like you said, it'sgoing to be different for
everyone and figuring out whatfeels good and then obviously
(36:46):
then being able to communicatethat to a partner.
It's really cool.
Uma Ayelet (36:50):
And also understanding that that change
is constantly, that what feelsgood, what felt good yesterday,
is not the same as what's goingto feel good today.
And for people who ovulate, thehormonal configuration and
(37:10):
fluctuating a hormonalconfiguration changes the
relationship with touch.
So sometimes, when you havemore estrogen in your body,
you'll want a particular, you'llhave extra sensitivity, and
that will be different fordifferent people what that means
.
And then other times you haveless estrogen, your sensitivity
(37:32):
will change again and you'd wantsomething else.
And so that is constant andthat's changing.
And that's just one aspect.
This is a hormonal aspect.
And then when you're goingthrough perimenopause and
menopause, where the hormonesare changing again, here's
(37:53):
another mystery OK, all of thosethings that worked for me
before don't feel the same now.
What does, what will?
And so many people give uparound that stage and say, oh
well, it's not working for meanymore, so I must not be a
sexual being anymore.
It's like, no, just because thething that you figured out when
you were 16 is not working foryou at 60 doesn't mean you're
(38:17):
not a sexual being.
It just means your body'schanged and we've got to figure
out what it wants and what itneeds.
And I get a lot of people whocome to me at a time of change
in their lives after birth,after different medical
(38:39):
procedures around menopause,perimenopause, menopause.
If you're a penis owner as well, you know hormones change.
Not, they don't fluctuate forthe day as much, but around 50s
and 60s your testosterone goesdown.
(39:03):
So again, a life change.
And people are kind of comingand saying it's not working
anymore and broken, and so wehave to figure out okay, no,
you're not broken, it's justdifferent.
And are you doing anythingdifferently?
No, I'm still doing the samething, but it's not working.
Okay, let's figure out, bytrying different types of touch,
(39:25):
by trying to calm your minddown, by helping you focus, what
can work for you now.
And if you have that mindsetfrom your age, Ellie, if you
start having that mindset of, oh, I'll just try different things
and I'll constantly be curiousabout it and explore, then you
won't have a crisis.
It will just naturally, youknow, evolve.
(39:50):
You'll just you're speaking,you're listening to your body,
and so you will.
You'll just be in tune aroundwhat it needed at any given time
.
Ellie Goode (40:02):
And I think like how empowering that is for
people to realize, like you know, you're not broken.
Like you said, you just need toreconfigure what feels good for
you and go back into your bodyand test things and just play
around.
Yeah, I think that's reallycool, and especially what you
said about the hormonal changesas well, especially different
(40:25):
times of the menstrual cycle forwomen.
My friend and I actually talkabout.
This is like you know, our sexdrive really can change
depending on where we are in ourcycle, and you know it's it's
like very consistent.
I tracked it one one time andit's just blows my mind just how
like, like even the touch couldchange, you know, and the
(40:47):
sensations that you desire orjust come down to hormones
largely, which is so interesting.
Uma Ayelet (40:53):
Yeah, we are slaves to our hormones.
Yeah.
Ellie Goode (40:59):
But then you can play into it and you know, if
you know kind of what's going on, or if you have a partner, you
can sort of play into that andgo, okay, like this is, let's
try this thing around this timeand it's yeah, becomes very much
like a game which is yeah,absolutely, and you know, I love
that.
Uma Ayelet (41:15):
You tracked it and I think keeping a diary around
send touch and drive, becausethere's the sexual drive, but
there's, what kind of touch do Ienjoy beyond sex, beyond
getting off, so to speak?
And it's through the month andtracking it for a few months and
(41:36):
having that data and havingyour partner know that data as
well and so they know whereyou're at.
I think it's just it's soprecious and it's just lovely
and you build on that right, youcan get then curious, go oh, I
know I like that, so maybe wecan add this or add that and
(41:57):
let's just see what happens.
And there isn't that mysterythat goes on in especially in
relationships, but also in solorelationships around.
Oh, I don't know, I don't knowwhat she wants, I don't know
what he wants, what they want.
I'm just going to guess my wayaround and hope something sticks
(42:18):
, yeah.
Ellie Goode (42:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think too, like it takes a lot of
pressure off because it's like,you know, something might not be
working like you mentioned, andpeople can get really stressed
out or like, oh, my partner, Idid this last time and now
they're not enjoying it thistime, like am I doing something
wrong?
And again we go back into ourheads and all the stories.
(42:40):
So, by understanding, like thehormonal cycles, like you said,
touch and sex drive, you know itreally takes the stress out of
it or the shame of I'm not doingsomething right, and it's like,
oh, maybe it's just a differentpart of the month than the
hormone system is just different.
Uma Ayelet (42:57):
Exactly, and I think you raised a really good point
around this idea, which is areally current kind of modern
idea that we have, that someoneelse is responsible for our
pleasure.
I am responsible for yourpleasure.
So if you, if I couldn't giveyou pleasure, I give you this
(43:21):
pleasure, and if I couldn't doit, I did a bad job, I'm
unworthy, you don't.
I'm not a good enough person,I'm not a attractive enough
person, you must not love me,you name it, and all of these
projections that we have on eachother which can be so
destructive.
(43:42):
Because nobody should be incharge of anybody else's
pleasure.
I deal, you know, like weshould all be in charge of our
own pleasure and ask otherpeople to help out.
Absolutely yes, please, butit's not your job.
Ellie Goode (43:59):
Need an extra pair of hands over here.
Yes, it's not your job.
Uma Ayelet (44:02):
It's not your job to just know, and it's not your
job to give me a pleasure or togive me an orgasm.
And if you didn't do your jobright I'm quoting then that
makes you a really bad person.
That's just so destructive, andit's destructive for both
people, because yeah,disempowering.
(44:24):
Right If, if one person takes iton as doing a bad job, then the
other person feels guiltybecause innately they know it's
not really their job.
And that can create a lot ofpleasure, a lot of pressure in
relationships, especially whensomething is not, let's say,
(44:44):
functioning the way it's meantto function.
Let's say, someone has an issuewith engorgement.
They're not getting engorgedenough, and then the other
person is taking it on as oh,that was my job to get you
engorged, and now you're notgetting engorged enough, so I'm
doing a really bad job.
And the person that's notgetting engorged enough is
(45:05):
thinking oh my God, I don't wantthem to feel bad, I need to get
engorged.
And then they put all thispressure on themselves, which is
actually making it worse, notbetter.
Ellie Goode (45:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's so interesting.
Just yeah, I totally agree that.
You know.
Yeah, pleasure is iseverybody's individual
responsibility and I think, likeyou mentioned, you know, as
soon as we put that onto someoneelse, it's like you're just
adding stress to yourself andthe other person which, like you
(45:35):
said, is just going to have thecomplete opposite effect of
what you're you're seeking.
So, yeah, it makes total sense.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so so Iguess what are some of the
common problems that people saywould come to see a somatic
sexologist about?
Like, is it kind of boundaries,consent, communication, or is
(45:59):
it more kind of sexualdysfunction?
What are some of the problemsthat people, the common ones
that people face?
Uma Ayelet (46:06):
Yeah, so I don't like calling it dysfunction,
because I think a lot of, Ithink it's very medicalized and
very it's a very negative way oflooking at these things.
I like calling them issues andconcerns, because sometimes it's
, you know, like we have,because we have this narrow idea
(46:27):
of what is function.
Sexual function it's this verynarrow thing of an erect penis
inside a wet vagina goingtowards orgasm.
In a very kind of normative wayit's, you know, it's just so
(46:47):
limiting and if we think, if wethink of function in a wider way
, lots of things can be sex, youknow, because my, if a penis
doesn't get erect, does thatmean it's dysfunctioning, like
it's just not getting erect?
It doesn't mean it's not thereand then you can't play with it
(47:09):
and that the penis owner can'thave pleasure.
If a clitoris can't reach apeak orgasm, a clitoral orgasm
or peak experience, that meansit's not, it's incapable of
having a really nice time andthe owner of the clitoris is not
able to actually to enjoy asexual interaction.
(47:32):
And so I like to kind of takethe dysfunction away.
Now, going back to your question, about half of the people that
come to see me are coming withissues and concerns and the
other half of the people are notcoming because there's anything
wrong.
They're coming because theywant to learn more, they're
(47:54):
curious, they think they'resaying, no, everything's fine,
but I know there's more.
It's a bit like what you didwith when you brought all of
your somatic tools intosexuality.
There wasn't any.
I'm not hearing there wasanything wrong.
It was.
You would just thought, oh,what if I just did that?
It might be even better.
(48:15):
And so that's a lot of fun towork with when people are kind
of saying, yeah, everything'sgreat, but I want it to be even
better.
And then the other half of thepeople that come to see me are
coming with.
There's a huge variety of issuesand concerns.
So everything from issuesaround engorgement whether it's
(48:42):
penises getting erect, volversgetting sufficiently engorged,
issues around orgasm I ejaculatetoo quickly or I can't
ejaculate at all or people withvolvers who have issues
orgasming they can't reach thatpeak experience or lack of
(49:03):
sensation I'm not feeling muchin my genitals or any other
erogenous zones.
Pain sometimes pains withintercourse, internal pain,
often with people with vaginas,and then so there's our like,
the more localized issues, andthen you have more generalized
(49:26):
issues around boundaries andconsent.
I want to have betterboundaries.
I want to be able tocommunicate what it is that I
want or I don't actually knowwhat it is that I want.
I want to figure it out so Ican communicate it to someone
else.
Social anxiety is a really bigthing, and so we know a lot of
(49:50):
people talk about having socialanxiety.
It's a really common thing thatpeople experience and that
often translates to the bedroom.
If you're anxious in a roomfull of people, it's likely you
might be anxious with a newpartner and how do, and it's so
anxious, in fact, that you mightnot even try going with someone
(50:15):
because just the thought of itis anxiety producing for you.
And so how do we working withthat, getting more confidence
around being with another person, getting confidence in your
body, and often, if we'reanxious in our minds, it
(50:37):
translates to our body in someway.
Ellie Goode (50:41):
Yeah, yeah, definitely Super interesting.
And do you find that the morepeople become present in their
body through the breath,movement, awareness, all of
those things?
Uma Ayelet (50:53):
Ali, can I pause you for a moment?
Yeah, sure, I'm just going togo and close the windows because
I've got a lot of backgroundnoise here.
I don't know if you can hear it, but Okay, no worries.
Ellie Goode (51:04):
Be a safe.
Uma Ayelet (51:05):
Oh, that's better, I can hear myself Awesome.
Ellie Goode (51:27):
Awesome.
Do you repeat that question?
What's it going to say yeah,yeah, sure, Hang on, let me just
so.
With people who have these, Iguess, concerns and issues
social anxiety do you find thatthe more they learn to come into
their body through, like yousaid, the breath, movement,
(51:49):
awareness, sound and touch, doyou find a lot of these issues
kind of self-correct?
Or what does the process looklike for some of these people?
Uma Ayelet (52:00):
That's like my favorite thing to do is to
figure out the process.
I like to think of it as alittle bit like detective work,
where I imagine that I'm a flyon the wall.
There's a situation happeningand I'm fly on the wall and I'm
trying to figure out what ishappening for that person that
created that situation and andwhat are some of the things that
(52:25):
their body is unconsciouslydoing to support that situation
that we need to unwind and takeback.
And so, like you said in thebeginning about when you first
learned about somatic practices,there's just all these things
(52:48):
that you didn't know.
You didn't know, and once youknew them, your body experienced
lots of different things.
And so we carry habits in ourbodies that from a very, very
young age, where we learn todumb down our breath, we learn
to carry a lot of tension in ourbody, we learn to shut
(53:11):
ourselves kind of in by closingour shoulders down, we learn to
say nothing and not communicatebecause we don't want to create
a fast, or maybe we were toldoff or or something of that sort
, and and all of those thingsthat we unconsciously doing
exacerbate that particular that,the issue that we're working on
(53:36):
, the concern that we're workingon.
So I want to know, I want tokind of imagine that I'm in the
room and I want to see what'shappening to that person, and
then we start working on going.
Ah, alright, so let's get youreally comfortable with your
breath, let's start working onyour posture, let's work on ways
(53:56):
that, once your mind startskicking in with anxiety, how do
we regulate?
How do we down regulate youranxiety?
Sympathetic functioning, how dowe get you into parasympathetic
functioning?
When do we need to do it beforeit's too late and you're just
gone, you're completely gone andit's too hard to bring it back.
(54:18):
And so we figure all of thosethings out and we start just
practicing those elementsoutside of any situation.
Just get really good with theseparticular tools that you then
have in your toolbox, and thenwe start looking at, alright,
when are we pulling these toolsout and when do we start using
(54:41):
them and when do they work andwhen is it too late for them and
they're not working anymore.
So it's, it's a process, and,and part of working with a
somatic sexologist is that youdon't just go for sessions.
You, you, you have a session,you learn skills, you go home
and practice.
The more you practice, thefaster your transformation is
(55:06):
going to be.
There's no doubt to that.
You put in the time.
It's not what happens insession, it's everything that
happens between sessions thatcreates the difference.
And then we create, we, we kindof approach these situations and
we look at, okay, if we thinkof social anxiety, for example,
(55:28):
and and, and we think, oh, I'mabout, I, I try to even put my
profile on a dating site, andjust thinking about putting that
my profile on a dating site isshutting, you know, I'm getting
completely anxious about it.
And so, okay, how about we takesome time to downregulate the
(55:50):
body before we approach the ideaof going and and going to the
dating site?
And how about we just put thedating site on without you
needing to put a profile on,just so you can have a look at
it?
And then, when you startfeeling your anxiety, how, what
tools do we need to bring toregulate that anxiety?
(56:10):
Or I'm just about to go on adate, I'm so excited, which is
great, but now I'm I'm I'mactually completely anxious and
I can't get through with my date.
What do we need to do to kindof calm the body down enough so
you still feel excited but notpetrified.
Yeah, that's on a natural.
(56:33):
It works like that for lots ofdifferent things and sometimes
we get really gritty around oh,what is actually happening in
the bedroom?
What is actually happening whenyou're having intercosco?
Sometimes the issue is thereand sometimes the issues are
more global around dating andrelating and things like that
yeah.
Ellie Goode (56:52):
I think, that's, yeah, a really good point is
just just the versatility of, Iguess, the somatic practices,
because you know it's it's thesefoundational things you can do
like in the day-to-day, you know, learning how to create that
safety in your body, in theenvironment.
You know, like you mentioned,social anxiety being a really
common thing, that obviously isnot just limited to the bedroom,
(57:16):
it's it's probably, you know,most of the person's life, you
know, in different settings, andso by by working on it, like
with those different exercises,sort of bit by bit throughout
the day, it's sort of all kindof overlaps and translates
throughout all the differentareas, which is really cool,
yeah, awesome.
And so I guess, for people whowant to, I guess, learn more
(57:39):
about, maybe studying somaticsexology or want sessions I know
you've got two courses comingup.
Did you want to sort of chat abit about those?
Uma Ayelet (57:50):
and I'd love to.
So the Institute teachesdifferent trainings.
One training that we have beenteaching for a really long time
is the certificate insexological body work, which is
the brainchild of Dr JosephKramer, who's, who lives in San
(58:13):
Francisco, and his certificateis taught all over the world
where the people who teach it inAustralia and this is for
people who are wanting to besomatic sex educators and body
workers so this certificateteaches you not just have to be
an educator, but how to workwith people's bodies, how to
(58:36):
teach your clients about touch,how to help people understand
their anatomy to physiology,their, their arousal patterns.
So we run that every year.
We have a current trainingalready going, and then we have
(58:58):
a training that is starting inOctober, which is our first
training of its kind, and it'stheir certificate in somatic sex
coaching.
And so what?
What we realized teachingsexological body work because
it's a body work modality isthat a lot of people are not
(59:18):
comfortable receiving touch frompractitioners.
Some are really appreciating itand a lot of people really need
it, but a lot of people on at anentry level that's kind of a
little bit before that they'renot comfortable with a
practitioner putting their handson them to do the work, as
important as it is, and so wedeveloped their certificate in
(59:41):
somatic sex coaching, which is anon-touch modality for people,
for practitioners, who want towork with clients in a slightly
different way.
It covers different aspect ofsex and sexuality.
We look at different aspects ofrelating different aspect of
(01:00:02):
self-practices.
We and how do you coach someonein a somatic way?
So how do we take the coachingfrom cognitive, from solely
cognitive, to somatic?
How do you teach them how to,how to feel something in their
bodies?
So that's starting in Octoberand I'm very excited about it
(01:00:24):
because we've just finisheddeveloping it and it's the first
time we're teaching it.
So, yeah, it's like our littlebaby that we are birthing.
Ellie Goode (01:00:37):
Yeah, anybody who's interested, all you got to do
is contact the Institute and wewill send you all the materials
and talk to you about it amazing, and so I guess one question I
had was because I mean, I don'tknow myself but what, what I
(01:00:58):
guess happens in a somaticsexology session for, say you
mentioned?
You know there's touch indifferent things and that maybe
somatic coaching is more thesort of hands-off sort of more
getting people to sort of feelinto their body or feeling
embodied, yeah, like whathappens sort of in a standard
(01:01:18):
somatic sexology session.
Uma Ayelet (01:01:20):
Lots of things can happen in a somatic sexology
session, and again, depending onthe scope of the practitioner
and on what works for the client, and so I work with people on a
wide scope.
And some people come to me andthey're not ready for any touch
(01:01:42):
to happen for them, and so wework somatically but without any
touch.
And some people are comfortablewith touch.
What kind of touch changes froma person to person.
But essentially we start bychecking in, where we look at
their intention for the sessionwhat and then, from their
(01:02:04):
intention, we work out what wecall a learning objective why
are you here for what?
What can what?
What do you like, do you wantto learn?
And through that learningobjective, we work out what we
call an educational contract.
So you might have a learningobjective around.
(01:02:25):
I want to learn how to accessmore pleasure in my body, and
that's a wonderful learningobjective.
And then we talk about it alittle bit because I want to see
, okay, what are you currentlydoing that's working for you and
where are the places where youcan learn more about?
And so once we figure that out,I will suggest a couple of
(01:02:48):
different learning objectives wecould do some work around.
Let's say, map your body forsensation and sorry, my cats are
going off, sorry, yeah, whatwas I saying?
(01:03:16):
So we work out a learning, alearning objectives and from
there, an educational contract,and so I suggest a few different
things, possibilities for thesessions.
I mean, maybe we do a full-bodymapping, where we literally map
your body for different typesof touch, or maybe we learn
about different types ofmovement that could help you
(01:03:40):
access more pleasure in yourbody.
So I give some ideas to theclient.
The client then chooses, theydecide what feels right for them
.
They might say I don't like anyof your ideas and then I'll
come up with some more ideas.
Or they might have a reallyclear thing oh yeah, I really
want to do this or I want to dothat.
And then we we work out.
(01:04:03):
Part of the educational contractis that we work out what that
would look like.
So if we're doing a fullmapping session, what would that
look like?
Are we going to toucheverywhere in the body, or would
, or some places of the body?
Where do we touch?
Where don't we touch?
Are you clothed?
How many layers of clothing areyou having on?
(01:04:23):
Are you covered?
Like all of those pieces arenot really up to me.
They're completely up to theclient and I have no investment
in what that looks like.
So it's all about empoweringtheir client to make their own
choices around what works forthem and what feels right for
them in the moment.
(01:04:43):
Because often people come withgreat ideas and once you know
moment like, oh, actually, Idon't want that, I that that
doesn't seem relevant anymore,and so it's that it's really
getting into the needy-greenly,having really clear agreements
what will happen during our timeof doing, and then we can
decide.
We decide how long that's goingto be for as well.
(01:05:03):
We'll do this for half an hour,45 minutes an hour.
Whatever that happens, thatwhat's, whatever is applicable,
whatever the client also feelsis a useful time for them, we
close, we go ahead and do thework.
Once that's finished, we have alittle feedback session.
(01:05:25):
We talk about what was thatlike, what worked, what didn't
work, what they learned, whatthey're taking away and what
they're going to do at home.
So, ideally, everything I teacha person or we work on in
session, there is a version ofthat that they take home to
practice.
So the last bit of the sessionis us figuring out what is that
(01:05:50):
version what that looks like,how often you're going to
practice it, and that's wheresometimes some people find it
really useful with that sense ofaccountability.
You know how, where we mightwork out an accountability
system.
Are you going to send me anemail after your practice or are
you just committing to doing it?
(01:06:10):
You know whatever works for eachperson and then we close the
session, they go home, they dotheir practice, they or they
don't do the practice, which isalso part of the learning,
because sometimes coming backand saying I couldn't practice,
I had a complete block, it'slike great, let's figure that
out, let's figure out what thisblock is all about.
(01:06:33):
And that's the work.
So ideally, you know this is.
This is not like you can onlydo so much in a one-off session.
This is all about continuous, abody of work, that that you do
with a practitioner over aperiod of time and and see your
(01:06:54):
practitioner regularly, howeverregularly, whatever regularly
means to you some people forwanting to come once a week,
others once a month, some everysix months, and that that's very
individual.
Yeah, so that's what a sessionlooks like, and then what
happens at each session isreally relevant to that
(01:07:17):
particular time, that in thatparticular session and is always
negotiated.
Ellie Goode (01:07:25):
Yeah, it sounds like, yeah, really interesting
and empowering, I think, for,you know, people to come in and
learn to practice things like,yeah, like what feels good,
these different exercisessexually, the consent, the
boundaries, even you know,saying no or, you know, just
working through whatever it isthey want to work through in a
(01:07:48):
controlled environment.
You know, because often if it'swith a partner or someone
you're having a one night standwith, probably it's not going to
be, as you know, necessarilyproductive as sort of seeing a
professional who can sit thereand process okay, let's stop and
pause and dialogue here.
You know, I think that it's,yeah, really empowering and cool
(01:08:10):
to have that container forpeople to explore these
different things sexually.
Yeah.
Uma Ayelet (01:08:15):
I think it's very important and very rare.
We don't really haveopportunities in our lives in
modern society to have thoseenvironments where we call it
practice versus concerto.
So let's say concerto is I'mjust having, I want to have
great sex with my partner, withmyself, and practice is when we
(01:08:37):
can actually put a bit of oh,excuse me add in the background.
I just saw the bays like I knowI'm trying to be serious.
Anyway, you don't have to editthis out.
So yeah, practice versusconcerto.
(01:08:59):
And this is when you knowpractice.
Concerto is when you wantthings to work really well for
you and you invest it in it, andpractice is when we can put
some of our traction or ideally,all of our traction aside and
work outside of attraction, inthat space of experimentation
and exploration and clunkinessand stopping and starting and
(01:09:24):
trying different things and notbeing invested in it working or
even feeling good, with justinvested in being curious and
having a goal.
And that can be hard to do withsomeone you're having a
romantic or sexual relationshipwith.
It's much easier to do with apractitioner who has a really
clear code of practice and acode of ethics and it's not
(01:09:44):
there to play out yourattraction to them or their
attraction to you.
Ellie Goode (01:09:51):
Yeah yeah, I think that's really cool.
Yeah, to have that.
I like to sit about practiceand concerto.
It sort of reminds me when Iused to I do piano lessons as a
kid and I would have to do thesescales, you know, over and over
and over again, and it's like,oh, this is so boring, like why
do I have to do this?
But then that forms thefoundation of the song, and so
(01:10:12):
it's very similar with thesomatic sexology where it's like
you said, you know, doing thesepractices and building that, I
guess, sexual foundation,building those skills and
grading them as habits and thenbeing able to take that into the
bedroom or into wherever, yeah,I think that's really cool.
Uma Ayelet (01:10:33):
And the other thing I wanted to mention as well,
which is an opportunity forpeople to come and practice, is
that when COVID started, wethere's a group of practitioners
we started teaching what wecall erotic embodiment classes.
(01:10:54):
So they're classes where peoplecome to do self practice, but
they're guided classes.
So it's a bit like you go to anonline yoga class and you have
a teacher that guides youthrough some kind of yoga
process.
We come in and I always had afantasy of being a yoga teacher,
that's why I say it so we comein and guide you through an
(01:11:21):
erotic practice.
We call them erotic embodimentpractices.
Some of them are more explicitthan others.
Most of them are not thatexplicit in a way, but they're
all designed to work anywhereand everywhere.
Meaning what we realized is whenpeople went into lockdown, they
(01:11:43):
were disconnected with otherpeople, they weren't receiving
touch, they weren't having a lotof them were not having sexual
connections and everybody seemedto have forgotten that they can
actually support themselves.
They don't actually needsomeone else to give them touch.
(01:12:03):
So we started.
We came up with like, oh well,let's do these online classes.
We know a lot of practices,let's just run these classes
twice a week.
People can just drop in.
It's for anybody and everybody,and people can do it.
They could be in their bedcompletely naked or they could
be in their garage on a yoga matwith, like you know, very
(01:12:25):
little privacy completelydressed, and it will work for
everyone.
There will be a version of thisthat will work for any, each,
every person, and they've beenrunning since we run them.
There are two groups now.
We have four classes a week andwe've got hundreds of people on
our mailing list who are justreally curious and really
(01:12:47):
interested and drop in atdifferent times and we get to be
really creative about what weteach and quite sometimes it's a
tariff, sometimes, you know,very explorative.
We just try a whole lot ofdifferent things.
They're completely optional.
So people come and we all sayhello to each other.
(01:13:10):
We don't stay on screen for thepractices, like you can if you
wanted to, but it's not aboutpeople watching each other.
It's more about people being ina community by doing their solo
practice on their own, and thenwe come back and have a little
feedback afterwards and say andtalk about what it was like for
(01:13:32):
us.
So, yes, if anybody'sinterested as well, there's
information on the institute'swebsite.
They're fabulous classes and Iwish the whole world got into
them, because for me I can't seea better solution to people's,
to our sense of loneliness, toour sense of anxiety, to being
(01:13:55):
able to connect better with ourbodies, to bringing some
eroticism into our lives.
You know there are lots ofpeople who are also interested
in that, and if you don't knowanything, that's fine.
You'll get lots of ideas fromus.
Ellie Goode (01:14:14):
That's awesome.
It's like a yoga class, buterotic.
I like it yeah.
Uma Ayelet (01:14:21):
We used to be called orgasmic yoga.
That was the original name ofit, that's, joseph Kramer coined
the term orgasmic yoga, whichwe loved.
But then the word orgasmic canbe a little bit tricky for some
people, because if you're notfeeling particularly orgasmic,
you think, oh well, that's notthe space for me.
(01:14:42):
Or if orgasm is difficult, youthink, oh well, that's not for
me.
And some of the practices arepleasurable, but I wouldn't say
they're orgasmic, and so wewanted to give it a wider kind
of and it's not yoga, it's notactually yoga, so we're not
doing assanas, and we thought,okay, let's talk culturally
(01:15:03):
appropriating this thing andcall it something that has a bit
more relevant yeah.
Ellie Goode (01:15:11):
Nice, that sounds super cool.
Yeah, I will be sure to link toeverything in the description,
thank you, so people can find itall.
But thank you, yeah, so muchfor coming on the podcast.
It's been a great chat, veryinsightful.
I've learned a lot.
I think everyone will enjoy it.
Uma Ayelet (01:15:27):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really I'd be reallyexcited to come on this podcast.
I've listened to it and it'sreally really great.
And yeah, thanks so much forthe invitation and thank you for
whoever's listening, forputting up with my chatting.
Ellie Goode (01:15:45):
No it's great, yeah , cool.
Well, that's the official end.
I'll just pause the recording.
But yeah, thank you so much.
Yeah, it was great.
Today I am here with Uma from the Institute of
Sematic Sexology and reallyinterested to have a chat today
with you, uma.
But firstly, how are you, how'sit going this morning?
Uma Ayelet (00:12):
I'm doing really well.
I'm here in sunny Brisbane,australia.
We're having a beautiful springday, so I'm enjoying all the
flowers opening and the weatherwarming up and, yeah, feels
quite joyful in my body today.
Thanks for asking, nice.
Ellie Goode (00:33):
That's good.
No, I love, I love spring andwe're actually going into rainy
season here, so everythinghopefully will start turning
green soon, because it's beenreally dry and dusty.
So, yeah, it's, it's cool beingin nature, but, yeah, maybe we
can start off by sort of talkinga bit about maybe who you are
and what you do, and maybe whatis somatic sexology for people
(00:56):
who don't know.
Uma Ayelet (00:58):
Yeah, that's a really great question because
not that many people know.
So I my name is Uma, and I amwhat I sometimes.
I say I'm a somatic sexologist,or sometimes I would say that I
am a somatic sex educator,depending who I'm speaking to.
(01:19):
What I do is I work withpeople's sex and sexuality, but
I do it in a somatic way.
Somatic means, in two words, ofthe body, where.
(01:39):
So when we look at sex andsexuality, there are lots of
different things that come intoplay for humans.
We have a lot of stuff that goeson cognitively for us and we
have a lot of stuff that goes onphysically for us, and my
specialty is working with thephysical aspect of sex and
(02:02):
sexuality and arousal andpleasure, and helping people
access more pleasure in theirbodies.
We we live in a world that'svery much focused on the
cognitive and narrative, andwe're very intelligent creatures
and we spend a lot of time inour heads and we spend a lot of
(02:23):
our sex lives in our heads too,and that has great benefits and
that is super important.
But most people have not spenta lot of time fostering those
same aspects in their bodies.
So that's my specialty, where Isupport people, walk beside
(02:47):
them, teach them how to accessthose beautiful sensations that
are available to everybody andanybody, right here, right now
in magnificent bodies.
So in essence, that's what I doand I'm part of an institute we
(03:09):
are the Institute of SomaticSexology and we train
practitioners.
So people come to us who wantto become somatic sexologist or
somatic sex educators and wehave different courses that we
offer Practitioners so they cango and support even more people
(03:29):
around the world.
Ellie Goode (03:32):
Amazing.
I love it.
I'm a huge fan of, I guess,more the body based modalities.
I think they're very underratedand I think it's really cool to
be able to pair the somatickind of framework or methodology
with sexuality, like youmentioned.
I think that's really cool.
And so how did you get intosomatic sexology?
(03:52):
What sort of drew you in?
Uma Ayelet (03:56):
I was always a very sexually curious person and in
my early 20s I got interested inmore esoteric forms of
sexuality like Taoism and Tantraand sexual shamanism.
(04:17):
I realized I found out thatthere was all these ancient
teachings around sex andsexuality that were very
different, almost opposite towhat I knew about what sex was
and how sex felt for me.
So I started studying all ofthese teachings and they are
(04:41):
very somatic, because Tantra,taoism, all lots of different
ancient teachings are a lotabout the body and the subtle
sensations that we can developin the body, and so I got into
it from that more, I guess,esoteric, spiritual realm, and
(05:06):
then I discovered that there wasan emerging new form that was
called somatic sexology.
I discovered that peoplestarted teaching sexology in a
somatic way.
So sexology has traditionallybeen a very analytical, very
(05:31):
cognitive what would you call it?
Profession or body of work, andthis is fairly new.
The idea of somatic sexology.
It's not new because peoplethought about it 5000, 6000
years ago already, but they justcalled it something else, and
(05:54):
so I love the old teachings.
I think they have a lot in therefor us, but they're not always
that applicable to modern lifeand to modern people and they're
not always that applicable ifyou perhaps are not seeking a
(06:15):
spiritual experience, or perhapssitting a little bit outside
the old boxes of masculine andfeminine and men and women, or
perhaps if you're not that intoidea of energy and energy flow
(06:36):
and all those woo-woo thingsthat some people really resonate
with and other people just wantnothing to do with.
And so somatic sexology kind ofcame out of a lot of somatic
methods that started developingin the 60s, 70s and 80s around
the world, a lot of somaticpsychotherapy that came out and
(07:02):
also a lot of methods aroundmovement, around breathing
around.
So we look at, okay, what arethese elements that help our
body thrive, what are theseelements that help our body feel
(07:24):
more and access more sensation,and how can we harness those
elements when we look atsexuality?
And so that's been my journeyaround it and I do a bit of
everything.
Now I love the spiritual aspectof sexuality.
I still practice tantra, Istill teach it, I still study
(07:50):
those more esoteric realms, butwhat I teach and what I pass on
is more, I guess, moreapplicable and more modern and
more relevant, I feel.
Ellie Goode (08:07):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, that's really cool.
I yeah, I think that's superinteresting, sort of yeah, what
you said about it beingpreviously being quite
analytical and now kind ofbringing in that physical
element, the somatic element,you know, playing with
sensations and, I guess,reconnecting the body and the
mind because they are veryclosely interlinked.
(08:29):
And so do you find that byworking with the body in the, in
this like somatic sexology,that that helps the brain or the
mind, or how do you see thatrelationship?
Uma Ayelet (08:41):
Well, we're kind of separating them artificially.
Really, the mind and the bodyare one and the same, like we
have this artificial separationto talk about it.
But absolutely, when you learnthings through your body, you're
changing your neurology in yourbrain.
When you learn new things inyour brain cognitive you're also
(09:01):
changing neurology and so,particularly when it comes to
sexuality, we most people on theplanet are really really good
at thinking of sex, fantasizingabout sex, watching sex, and we
(09:22):
call that the psychogenicarousal pathway.
I think of something it turns meon that's called psychogenic
arousal.
We're not that great at thesomatic pathway of arousal and
so often what happens is sex isvery much in the brain but then
(09:44):
it's felt very little in thebody because there are all these
habits and patterns that havebeen created over the years that
are actually blocking sensationrather than helping us feel
more and, ideally, to havereally great sex.
We want both of those switchedon.
We want to understand ourpsychogenic arousal and our
(10:06):
fantasies and desires and whatturns us on and who turns us on,
and play with it and explore it.
But we want to also feel it inour bodies in the best possible,
in the most possible way we canand we can, and so when someone
comes to me and says, oh, I canthink about sex, and that turns
(10:29):
me on a lot, and if I try notto think about sex I end up
thinking about a whole bunch ofother random stuff and that
completely turns me off, I know,okay, the somatic element has
not been switched on.
So what we have to do, at leastin the beginning, is put the
psychogenic bit aside anddevelop the somatic aspect.
(10:53):
So then eventually a person haschoice.
A person can either just be inthe feeling or just be in the
thinking, or have them bothcoming together, like weave them
together and in any shape, wayor form that they want to.
But most people that have thathave come across are lacking of
(11:15):
that choice.
A lot of people don't even knowthat there is a choice.
Actually, I didn't know therewas a choice before I came into
this world.
Ellie Goode (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense, I think.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't realize.
It's something I talked to afriend about.
Is you know?
It's all well and good to lookback and be like, oh, now I know
what it means to be in my body,but before you've had that
experience of feeling what itfeels like to be in your body,
it's very hard to conceptualize.
(11:46):
I've found, like, how, say,someone came to you and there
like it sounds like a lot ofpeople there in their head,
they're, you know, thinking andthey're not in their body.
What's sort of the process toget them to drop into their body
?
What it?
How do you sort of get them tostart focusing on sensations and
things to bring that sexualpleasure on board even more?
Uma Ayelet (12:08):
We look at the five somatic pillars or somatic tools
.
We've got breath, movement,placement of awareness, what are
you doing with your mind?
We've got sound and touch.
So we have those five elements.
The more elements weincorporate and the more
(12:30):
elements we have going in onetime, the more full I experience
in our body will be.
And so each person is a littlebit different because they will
have things that resonate withthem, that feel really good when
they do it, and other thingsare a bit more tricky for them.
So I look at these fiveelements with a person and we'll
(12:54):
say, okay, where, where shouldwe begin?
Where where's a good place tostart?
Do we want and, and so and it'salways a collaborative effort
because every person is sounique and it's not for me to
decide what's good for them.
It's for the person that comesto me to understand the
possibilities and say that'swhat I want or this is what I
(13:16):
want, and we decide whichelement we're going to start
with and start exploring it.
So let's say you said to me oh,I'm really interested in breath
.
I think that will be a good wayfor me to start connecting with
our body.
So we try lots of differentthings around breath, different
types of breath that createdifferent sensations in your
(13:40):
body, and through thiscollaborative effort we figure
out what works for you.
So I just throw a whole lot ofdifferent ideas at people and
they throw them back at me andsometimes they say, yeah, that
one's great, or I hate that one,that's shit.
So we throw it out.
Or this one's okay, but it'snot sitting quite right, and so
(14:00):
we tailor it to whatever worksfor that person, and that
changes with time as well.
But we've got us, we need toget in somehow, and so we find
it.
I find I try and find theeasiest way to get in, and so we
say, okay, let's just add thosetwo or three breaths that
(14:22):
you've learned to all the sexyou're having right now.
Don't change anything else, howyou masturbating, how you're
having sex with your partner.
Just add this breath and let'ssee what happens.
It's a bit of an experiment,right, and then they'll come
back to me and say, well, thisis what happened and that's what
happened.
And then we see what's beenworking and what's been not
(14:47):
working.
Meaning I tried this breath.
I got so distracted I couldn'tfeel anything.
So, okay, maybe that's notquite the way or maybe we need
to practice it a bit more on itsown before we integrate it in
to this, to sex, and then wealso look at how we integrate it
in as well, because when we'rehaving sex, either with
(15:15):
ourselves or with another person, a lot of the times we're
really invested in that.
We want to have a good time, wewant the other person to have a
good time.
It's not always that easy to trynew things, especially things
that you on a bit, you feel abit clunky around.
(15:37):
There's the new things of oh,let's try this new sexual
position or I've got this newtoy.
But when it comes to changinghow our bodies react in the
moment, when we in a state ofarousal, it's not so easy.
Our sexual habits are reallyprobably some of our strongest
(15:57):
habits that we have and so wealso need to work at okay, let's
say we worked out that doingthese three breaths helps you
really feel really open andreally relaxed and you think
it's a really good idea to startintegrating into your sex life.
How do we integrate it?
(16:17):
How do we bring it in and again, that's individual for each
person how do we titrate in thateventually it feels kind of
natural and flows, and that's ahard thing to do on your own.
It's really useful to havesomeone walking beside you that
you can say, that you can comeback and feedback with, and, and
(16:41):
that's where practitioners arereally important.
There's a lot of informationthat you can get online amazing
books we are in an unprecedentedtime of in information and
there's some incredible thingsout there.
But often people try to dosomething.
It sounds like a good idea,they try it, but they they don't
(17:04):
necessarily know exactly how totitrate it or how to transition
it, and that's when apractitioner working with a
practitioner can be so importantdo you find that like?
Ellie Goode (17:18):
so people who are in, I guess, relationships, if
one partner's sort of on boardwith it and practicing it, does
the other partner need to be, oris it something that people can
do on their own, or how does itall that work?
Uma Ayelet (17:31):
it can be either.
So, when we think of oursexuality, that there's the
sexuality that we have withourselves, and then there's how
we relate to others.
What you have with yourself hasis not impacted by whether your
(17:55):
partner is into changinganything or not, and it's and
and self-practice for me is thefoundation of sex and sexuality
and I wish there was moreattention to it.
I wish there were teachingyoung people how to have amazing
self-practice sessions and howto activate their bodies,
(18:17):
because once you have thatfoundation in your own body,
you're already relatingdifferently to someone else,
whether they're doing somethingelse or not, instead of just
projecting oh, they're not doingwhat I want.
How about learning what it isthat you want?
How about getting really greatat accessing all the pleasure in
(18:39):
your body?
How about getting really greatat articulating what it is that
works for you?
All of those things that we canreally learn on us, on on our
own, whether our partners areinto changing anything in the
relating or not, but you'rechanging yourself, it will
impact the relations thatthey're relating anyway.
(19:00):
And, yes, when partners areinterested, then absolutely we
can go from there, because thereare lots of things that you can
kind of harness your partner todo a lot of practices, wait,
that you can do with a partnertogether and that creates a
(19:20):
whole very unique experience.
But just because a partner isnot interested doesn't mean that
you should avoid doing thiswork for sure, for sure.
Ellie Goode (19:35):
I remember when I I didn't even know semantics,
sexology was the thing.
I kind of ended up doing it.
I guess by accident I got very,very much got into semantics.
Maybe four years ago I startedseeing a somatic counselor and
then I started getting intodoing, I guess, regular somatic
exercises, sort of day to dayabout three years ago, and it
(19:57):
was really interesting.
I can't remember what made methink to do it, but I started
going, oh, like I wonder whathappens if I pair these
techniques of, you know, feelingthe ground or paying attention,
like you said, to differentsensations or movement, bringing
that awareness in of thephysical body.
What if I brought that into thesexual realm?
And it was like it blew my mind, like it was like having sex
(20:19):
for the first time it's right,oh, my god, like how?
yeah, it's like what was I doingbefore you know?
Uma Ayelet (20:25):
so, like I think, well done for integrating it.
Ellie Goode (20:29):
You can do thanks, yeah, it was.
It's been a lot of fun.
I think like super empoweringas well and bringing you into
the present moment as well, butalso, just like you said, it
heightens the sensations in thebody.
It's like improved myrelationship with myself and and
and with other people as well.
(20:49):
I think that was a really coolpoint you made about.
You know, like as you becomemore embodied or more present in
your physical body, you know inthe sexual realm, like you're
going to change the way yourelate to people and your
partner and whoever, and andprobably without even realizing
it, you know you'll be more ableto speak up and say, oh, can
you, can you do this, or can wedo that, or yeah, it's, it's
(21:12):
really cool yeah, it inevitablychanges the relationship for the
better and or sometimes itchanges the relationship when
you realize you're in the wrongrelationship because the partner
your partner can't meet yourneeds and that's that's can.
Uma Ayelet (21:27):
That can be sad but also useful, but it it's.
It certainly does, and I foundover the years that, by me being
open and embodied and alive, itencouraged my partners to do
the same, because we all say, oh, I want what she's having.
(21:49):
Yeah, you know your partner cansay, oh my god, she's having
such a great time.
I want to do that too.
So it's that kind of curiositythat sparks other people's
willingness to explore and tolearn and and to see different
things.
But we can't.
It's not our job to change ourpartners.
It's it's our job to changeourselves absolutely, absolutely
(22:14):
.
Ellie Goode (22:14):
And do you find I mean I assume this would be
pretty common but for somepeople, like I guess there's for
a lot of people, there'sprobably a reason.
They're not in their body,whether it's that they don't
feel safe or they'reuncomfortable, or maybe just
that they don't know how tobeing that we live in a very
mental society.
But do you find I guess peoplehave, I guess, triggers or
(22:35):
things that come up from thatthey're dealing with when
they're kind of going throughthese practices, where they
maybe have to, you know, in themiddle of sex, say like let's,
let's take a pause, like I can'tkeep going at the moment, like
I just need a five minute breakor or whatever, like do you find
that people sort of have thoseissues come up?
Uma Ayelet (22:55):
they can, and again, it depends how much trauma
you're carrying.
I think it can be even.
If so, when you startconnecting with what's happening
in your body, regardless ofwhether it's through sex or just
through other somatic practicesthat are non-sexual, you feel
(23:17):
more, and you feel more.
You can feel more pleasure, butyou also feel all sorts of
emotions that are sitting in thebody.
You can have, all of a sudden,a flow of sadness or a flow of
anger, or a flow of joy.
I don't know if did that happento you when you first started
doing the work?
Ellie Goode (23:36):
Yeah, absolutely well, it was interesting.
It sort of became like a vesselfor like processing or
releasing emotion.
Like, weirdly enough, it waslike I'd have this rage come up
and then I was able to sort ofchannel the rage and express it
through a sexual practice whichlack again was really really
cool because I guess, from thenervous system angle, when
(23:59):
you're in a sexual situation,whether on your own or with
someone else or other people,you're in a heightened, more of
a sympathetic state.
So rage and grief and theseother emotions often come out
when you're in a sympatheticstate.
So it made a lot of sense andit was really helpful to be able
to channel that through anactivity and release it in that
(24:21):
way.
But yeah, for sure, there weretimes when I had to say to
someone like look, I can't keepgoing, like I have to stop.
Yeah, and you know, somepartners obviously are more
understanding than others, butyou know, most people are
actually really good, thankfully, absolutely.
For me.
It was like it's like saying nois like it felt like such a
(24:42):
huge thing to do, but it was soimportant to be able to learn to
do that, regardless of theoutcome.
But, yeah, totally had thatexperience.
Uma Ayelet (24:50):
Yeah, so it is.
It's that kind of sense ofoverwhelm or emotions moving
through, and in the beginning itcan be quite disorientating and
after a while you get used toit and you understand it and you
also know what's going on.
And so part of the work ispreparing a person to say, oh,
this might happen, and when thathappens, what are we going to
(25:14):
do?
Like, like you, we're going tohave a pause, having a pause,
you don't have to push throughit, or and so what I teach
people is self-regulation.
And so, amongst other things,so when those big emotions come
up or when the rage come up, youhave a choice.
Ok, do I want to run with itand let it flow out, or do I
(25:38):
want to take myself fromsympathetic down, back down to
parasympathetic, and calm mynervous system down, Because we
have a choice, you know.
And so what do I want to do atany given moment?
So when people feel not justknow that they have a choice,
but feel in their body andexplore that in their body and
(26:02):
go, oh yeah, I can changedirection.
Look, I just changed direction.
Oh, my god.
Oh, I just did that.
I changed my breath, I changedmy touch, I asked that person to
stop and I changed direction.
That's empowerment, and so themore empowered you feel, the
more you can play with thesethings, the more brave you are
(26:24):
to go.
Yeah, let's go down that road.
And because I know I havechoice.
I know, and the other choice aswell is through communication,
which is another piece that'sreally important to teach people
around.
How do we say no easily Withoutbefore we've crossed our
(26:47):
boundaries?
How do we feel the no or thepause or the?
I need to change direction andare able to communicate it in
the moment, while we're at aheightened state, rather than
think of it, think of it, thinkof it, go past all of our
boundaries and consent andeventually say it while when
(27:10):
we're really triggered and again, that's the work that you do in
sessions.
That then helps you do that inreal life, in practice.
Ellie Goode (27:24):
Yeah.
Uma Ayelet (27:25):
But I also think that sensation, particularly
arousal, can get sometimesoverwhelming.
When you feel a lot, it'ssometimes like it can be really
overwhelming, even if it's justthat pleasure and arousal and
(27:46):
sensation.
And for some of us thatoverwhelm shuts us down.
It's a defense mechanism of thebody.
Oh, this feels like too much.
I'm done, I'm checking out, I'min my head or I've got to walk
away, and it's a little bit.
(28:09):
I think of it a little bit likefitness.
If you went into a CrossFitclass for advanced people and
you've got no fitness, you'lllast five minutes and just go.
I can't.
Your body will literally shutdown.
It's a little bit like thatwith pleasure and arousal.
(28:29):
If it's too much, too soon,your system can't handle it.
And so this is again.
It's that piece of ah.
Ok, we'll just take thisarousal slowly and have a little
bit at a time and then relaxthe body and then have a little
bit more and teach the nervoussystem how to hold first that it
(28:54):
can hold and how to hold this,all of that sensation, all of
that arousal, without gettingtoo overwhelmed or shutting down
.
Ellie Goode (29:07):
Yeah, it's almost like you're building this
capacity, this, I can handlethis a little bit.
Ok, let's do a little bit morenext time.
And then I guess that buildsself-trust as well, because
you're getting this data pointsof why I can handle this and I
can do this, and maybe I didn'tsay no that time, but I saw it
or I noticed it and I pulledback.
(29:28):
Or like seeing these littlemicro shifts happening can
definitely build a lot ofself-trust.
Uma Ayelet (29:35):
Yeah, completely, and there are two.
I'm being very binary here andI'm very much generalizing, but
what I've seen, it's that thereare the intensity junkies of us
(29:57):
where the overwhelm is just soexciting.
I'm one of those.
Let's get to the overwhelm.
Ellie Goode (30:03):
This is like oh my god, I can't even think Well,
let's just do more of that.
Uma Ayelet (30:09):
And the learning for an intensity junkie is not how
to dive right in, but how toslow down and feel those more
subtle, nuanced sensations andpleasures.
What is it like to just be alittle bit aroused and hang out
there?
What is it like to be relaxedand aroused and hang out there?
(30:31):
What happens when you just hangout there for a really long
period of time?
And so there's a whole bunch oflearning around slowing down.
And then for the other people,it is about learning to hold
that arousal, because thatintensity is too much and it
shuts you down.
And then you learn OK, I canhandle this, I can do a little
(30:53):
bit more and a little bit more.
So everybody's quite unique andit's important to.
Sometimes you listen to thingsand you read things and it's
written by someone, let's say,that really loved that intensity
and you're trying it and it'sway too much for you and you're
thinking, oh, what's wrong withme?
(31:13):
How come I'm not enjoying it?
Everybody else is saying it'ssuch a great thing.
No, it's just that your nervoussystem is structured a little
bit differently to their nervoussystem and you need to approach
it in a different way, You'renot broken.
There's nothing wrong.
It's just something foreveryone, but not the one thing
that works for all of us.
Ellie Goode (31:35):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point to
make Just that kind ofdifference between some people
are going to be more yeah, go,go, go, let's do all these
things and excitement,excitement.
And then other people are goingto be that quieter, and so it's
kind of pulling yourself intothe opposite of what you're used
(31:56):
to and just exploring thingswhich sometimes can be quite
uncomfortable.
Like I know, for me, not evenin a sexual sense, but just in a
general sense, I'm very muchalways doing something, always
on the go, Like I'm verypassionate, motivated, which
traditionally people go.
That's really good, but thenyou get burnt out and there's
all these other things that canhappen.
So for me it's been a reallygood practice to learn to slow
(32:19):
down.
I hadn't ever thought about itin a sexual context, so I think
that's really interesting toreflect on.
But I think for a lot of peopleit's learning how to slow down,
learning how to be present, andI think I guess for a lot of
people, especially myself, thething that maybe prevents people
from slowing down often is thatmind is those racing thoughts
(32:42):
and not wanting to be with that,Because sometimes it's just not
enjoyable listening to all thatstuff going in the head.
Uma Ayelet (32:50):
But yeah, Absolutely , and it takes.
So if we think of arousal andI'm speaking specifically about
sexual arousal, because thereare lots of different types of
arousal that we can experienceand if you have a tendency to be
in your head, whether it'sthrough sexual fantasy or just
(33:14):
have random thoughts coming inat all sorts of inappropriate
moments, at a certain level ofarousal we can quieten our mind
down.
The arousal itself can have animpact on our mind and help it
(33:35):
slow down a little bit.
But it's quite a high level ofarousal, like if we think of 0
to 10, with 10 being an orgasm,we're probably talking about the
7, 8, and 9.
And so, in an attempt toquieten our mind, some people
race towards that high arousal,because it is much harder to
(34:00):
stay present in those low levelsof arousal in the beginning
until you learn how to do it.
And this is why we need to, andthis is why using the body is so
important, because if I justcount on my arousal, if I have
no other skills, then yeah, I'vegot to kind of hang out in
those high numbers and I canonly hang out there for so long
(34:23):
really Not that many people canhang out there for a really long
amount of time and I'm missingout on all of that pleasure that
happens before, so much of thatpleasure that happens before.
Engorgement and pleasuresaturation and being really
expansive, all sorts of thingshappen before that we miss out
(34:47):
on, if we skip those numbers.
And so if we can use breath, ifwe can use movement, if we know
where to put our awareness andwe have some ideas of how to
give the monkey mind somethingto do, as the Buddhists say, if
(35:09):
we know how to use sound andcommunication, if we understand
touch and really understand howtouch impacts us and our bodies,
what kind of touch takes us up,brings us down, helps us feel
safe, helps us feel grounded,helps us feel pleasure all these
things then we have all thesetools and we don't just solely
(35:34):
have to lean on the arousal totake us there.
Ellie Goode (35:41):
I think that's a really cool point, especially,
like I think you mentionedbefore, with sex toys and
different things.
It's easy to use these things.
But one idea I had just then iswhat if you just stripped all
of that away and you just hadyour hands, for instance, or you
just had, like you said,physical touch, how would that
(36:01):
change your experience?
How would that change how youfelt physically?
And then it's sort of.
I remember doing a I think itwas a Tantra workshop a few
years ago, and one of theexercises they got us to do was
just different forms of touch.
So you have just regular touch.
Then you had I think it waslike fire, where you're like
(36:24):
kind of clamping the person'sarms.
You could use your nails, likeyou could sort of hover.
There's all these differentforms of touch that you can play
with, and so it's almost likebringing that curiosity into it
and experimentation to go, likeyou said, what does my body like
?
Because, like you said, it'sgoing to be different for
everyone and figuring out whatfeels good and then obviously
(36:46):
then being able to communicatethat to a partner.
It's really cool.
Uma Ayelet (36:50):
And also understanding that that change
is constantly, that what feelsgood, what felt good yesterday,
is not the same as what's goingto feel good today.
And for people who ovulate, thehormonal configuration and
(37:10):
fluctuating a hormonalconfiguration changes the
relationship with touch.
So sometimes, when you havemore estrogen in your body,
you'll want a particular, you'llhave extra sensitivity, and
that will be different fordifferent people what that means
.
And then other times you haveless estrogen, your sensitivity
(37:32):
will change again and you'd wantsomething else.
And so that is constant andthat's changing.
And that's just one aspect.
This is a hormonal aspect.
And then when you're goingthrough perimenopause and
menopause, where the hormonesare changing again, here's
(37:53):
another mystery OK, all of thosethings that worked for me
before don't feel the same now.
What does, what will?
And so many people give uparound that stage and say, oh
well, it's not working for meanymore, so I must not be a
sexual being anymore.
It's like, no, just because thething that you figured out when
you were 16 is not working foryou at 60 doesn't mean you're
(38:17):
not a sexual being.
It just means your body'schanged and we've got to figure
out what it wants and what itneeds.
And I get a lot of people whocome to me at a time of change
in their lives after birth,after different medical
(38:39):
procedures around menopause,perimenopause, menopause.
If you're a penis owner as well, you know hormones change.
Not, they don't fluctuate forthe day as much, but around 50s
and 60s your testosterone goesdown.
(39:03):
So again, a life change.
And people are kind of comingand saying it's not working
anymore and broken, and so wehave to figure out okay, no,
you're not broken, it's justdifferent.
And are you doing anythingdifferently?
No, I'm still doing the samething, but it's not working.
Okay, let's figure out, bytrying different types of touch,
(39:25):
by trying to calm your minddown, by helping you focus, what
can work for you now.
And if you have that mindsetfrom your age, Ellie, if you
start having that mindset of, oh, I'll just try different things
and I'll constantly be curiousabout it and explore, then you
won't have a crisis.
It will just naturally, youknow, evolve.
(39:50):
You'll just you're speaking,you're listening to your body,
and so you will.
You'll just be in tune aroundwhat it needed at any given time
.
Ellie Goode (40:02):
And I think like how empowering that is for
people to realize, like you know, you're not broken.
Like you said, you just need toreconfigure what feels good for
you and go back into your bodyand test things and just play
around.
Yeah, I think that's reallycool, and especially what you
said about the hormonal changesas well, especially different
(40:25):
times of the menstrual cycle forwomen.
My friend and I actually talkabout.
This is like you know, our sexdrive really can change
depending on where we are in ourcycle, and you know it's it's
like very consistent.
I tracked it one one time andit's just blows my mind just how
like, like even the touch couldchange, you know, and the
(40:47):
sensations that you desire orjust come down to hormones
largely, which is so interesting.
Uma Ayelet (40:53):
Yeah, we are slaves to our hormones.
Yeah.
Ellie Goode (40:59):
But then you can play into it and you know, if
you know kind of what's going on, or if you have a partner, you
can sort of play into that andgo, okay, like this is, let's
try this thing around this timeand it's yeah, becomes very much
like a game which is yeah,absolutely, and you know, I love
that.
Uma Ayelet (41:15):
You tracked it and I think keeping a diary around
send touch and drive, becausethere's the sexual drive, but
there's, what kind of touch do Ienjoy beyond sex, beyond
getting off, so to speak?
And it's through the month andtracking it for a few months and
(41:36):
having that data and havingyour partner know that data as
well and so they know whereyou're at.
I think it's just it's soprecious and it's just lovely
and you build on that right, youcan get then curious, go oh, I
know I like that, so maybe wecan add this or add that and
(41:57):
let's just see what happens.
And there isn't that mysterythat goes on in especially in
relationships, but also in solorelationships around.
Oh, I don't know, I don't knowwhat she wants, I don't know
what he wants, what they want.
I'm just going to guess my wayaround and hope something sticks
(42:18):
, yeah.
Ellie Goode (42:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think too, like it takes a lot of
pressure off because it's like,you know, something might not be
working like you mentioned, andpeople can get really stressed
out or like, oh, my partner, Idid this last time and now
they're not enjoying it thistime, like am I doing something
wrong?
And again we go back into ourheads and all the stories.
(42:40):
So, by understanding, like thehormonal cycles, like you said,
touch and sex drive, you know itreally takes the stress out of
it or the shame of I'm not doingsomething right, and it's like,
oh, maybe it's just a differentpart of the month than the
hormone system is just different.
Uma Ayelet (42:57):
Exactly, and I think you raised a really good point
around this idea, which is areally current kind of modern
idea that we have, that someoneelse is responsible for our
pleasure.
I am responsible for yourpleasure.
So if you, if I couldn't giveyou pleasure, I give you this
(43:21):
pleasure, and if I couldn't doit, I did a bad job, I'm
unworthy, you don't.
I'm not a good enough person,I'm not a attractive enough
person, you must not love me,you name it, and all of these
projections that we have on eachother which can be so
destructive.
(43:42):
Because nobody should be incharge of anybody else's
pleasure.
I deal, you know, like weshould all be in charge of our
own pleasure and ask otherpeople to help out.
Absolutely yes, please, butit's not your job.
Ellie Goode (43:59):
Need an extra pair of hands over here.
Yes, it's not your job.
Uma Ayelet (44:02):
It's not your job to just know, and it's not your
job to give me a pleasure or togive me an orgasm.
And if you didn't do your jobright I'm quoting then that
makes you a really bad person.
That's just so destructive, andit's destructive for both
people, because yeah,disempowering.
(44:24):
Right If, if one person takes iton as doing a bad job, then the
other person feels guiltybecause innately they know it's
not really their job.
And that can create a lot ofpleasure, a lot of pressure in
relationships, especially whensomething is not, let's say,
(44:44):
functioning the way it's meantto function.
Let's say, someone has an issuewith engorgement.
They're not getting engorgedenough, and then the other
person is taking it on as oh,that was my job to get you
engorged, and now you're notgetting engorged enough, so I'm
doing a really bad job.
And the person that's notgetting engorged enough is
(45:05):
thinking oh my God, I don't wantthem to feel bad, I need to get
engorged.
And then they put all thispressure on themselves, which is
actually making it worse, notbetter.
Ellie Goode (45:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's so interesting.
Just yeah, I totally agree that.
You know.
Yeah, pleasure is iseverybody's individual
responsibility and I think, likeyou mentioned, you know, as
soon as we put that onto someoneelse, it's like you're just
adding stress to yourself andthe other person which, like you
(45:35):
said, is just going to have thecomplete opposite effect of
what you're you're seeking.
So, yeah, it makes total sense.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so so Iguess what are some of the
common problems that people saywould come to see a somatic
sexologist about?
Like, is it kind of boundaries,consent, communication, or is
(45:59):
it more kind of sexualdysfunction?
What are some of the problemsthat people, the common ones
that people face?
Uma Ayelet (46:06):
Yeah, so I don't like calling it dysfunction,
because I think a lot of, Ithink it's very medicalized and
very it's a very negative way oflooking at these things.
I like calling them issues andconcerns, because sometimes it's
, you know, like we have,because we have this narrow idea
(46:27):
of what is function.
Sexual function it's this verynarrow thing of an erect penis
inside a wet vagina goingtowards orgasm.
In a very kind of normative wayit's, you know, it's just so
(46:47):
limiting and if we think, if wethink of function in a wider way
, lots of things can be sex, youknow, because my, if a penis
doesn't get erect, does thatmean it's dysfunctioning, like
it's just not getting erect?
It doesn't mean it's not thereand then you can't play with it
(47:09):
and that the penis owner can'thave pleasure.
If a clitoris can't reach apeak orgasm, a clitoral orgasm
or peak experience, that meansit's not, it's incapable of
having a really nice time andthe owner of the clitoris is not
able to actually to enjoy asexual interaction.
(47:32):
And so I like to kind of takethe dysfunction away.
Now, going back to your question, about half of the people that
come to see me are coming withissues and concerns and the
other half of the people are notcoming because there's anything
wrong.
They're coming because theywant to learn more, they're
(47:54):
curious, they think they'resaying, no, everything's fine,
but I know there's more.
It's a bit like what you didwith when you brought all of
your somatic tools intosexuality.
There wasn't any.
I'm not hearing there wasanything wrong.
It was.
You would just thought, oh,what if I just did that?
It might be even better.
(48:15):
And so that's a lot of fun towork with when people are kind
of saying, yeah, everything'sgreat, but I want it to be even
better.
And then the other half of thepeople that come to see me are
coming with.
There's a huge variety of issuesand concerns.
So everything from issuesaround engorgement whether it's
(48:42):
penises getting erect, volversgetting sufficiently engorged,
issues around orgasm I ejaculatetoo quickly or I can't
ejaculate at all or people withvolvers who have issues
orgasming they can't reach thatpeak experience or lack of
(49:03):
sensation I'm not feeling muchin my genitals or any other
erogenous zones.
Pain sometimes pains withintercourse, internal pain,
often with people with vaginas,and then so there's our like,
the more localized issues, andthen you have more generalized
(49:26):
issues around boundaries andconsent.
I want to have betterboundaries.
I want to be able tocommunicate what it is that I
want or I don't actually knowwhat it is that I want.
I want to figure it out so Ican communicate it to someone
else.
Social anxiety is a really bigthing, and so we know a lot of
(49:50):
people talk about having socialanxiety.
It's a really common thing thatpeople experience and that
often translates to the bedroom.
If you're anxious in a roomfull of people, it's likely you
might be anxious with a newpartner and how do, and it's so
anxious, in fact, that you mightnot even try going with someone
(50:15):
because just the thought of itis anxiety producing for you.
And so how do we working withthat, getting more confidence
around being with another person, getting confidence in your
body, and often, if we'reanxious in our minds, it
(50:37):
translates to our body in someway.
Ellie Goode (50:41):
Yeah, yeah, definitely Super interesting.
And do you find that the morepeople become present in their
body through the breath,movement, awareness, all of
those things?
Uma Ayelet (50:53):
Ali, can I pause you for a moment?
Yeah, sure, I'm just going togo and close the windows because
I've got a lot of backgroundnoise here.
I don't know if you can hear it, but Okay, no worries.
Ellie Goode (51:04):
Be a safe.
Uma Ayelet (51:05):
Oh, that's better, I can hear myself Awesome.
Ellie Goode (51:27):
Awesome.
Do you repeat that question?
What's it going to say yeah,yeah, sure, Hang on, let me just
so.
With people who have these, Iguess, concerns and issues
social anxiety do you find thatthe more they learn to come into
their body through, like yousaid, the breath, movement,
(51:49):
awareness, sound and touch, doyou find a lot of these issues
kind of self-correct?
Or what does the process looklike for some of these people?
Uma Ayelet (52:00):
That's like my favorite thing to do is to
figure out the process.
I like to think of it as alittle bit like detective work,
where I imagine that I'm a flyon the wall.
There's a situation happeningand I'm fly on the wall and I'm
trying to figure out what ishappening for that person that
created that situation and andwhat are some of the things that
(52:25):
their body is unconsciouslydoing to support that situation
that we need to unwind and takeback.
And so, like you said in thebeginning about when you first
learned about somatic practices,there's just all these things
(52:48):
that you didn't know.
You didn't know, and once youknew them, your body experienced
lots of different things.
And so we carry habits in ourbodies that from a very, very
young age, where we learn todumb down our breath, we learn
to carry a lot of tension in ourbody, we learn to shut
(53:11):
ourselves kind of in by closingour shoulders down, we learn to
say nothing and not communicatebecause we don't want to create
a fast, or maybe we were toldoff or or something of that sort
, and and all of those thingsthat we unconsciously doing
exacerbate that particular that,the issue that we're working on
(53:36):
, the concern that we're workingon.
So I want to know, I want tokind of imagine that I'm in the
room and I want to see what'shappening to that person, and
then we start working on going.
Ah, alright, so let's get youreally comfortable with your
breath, let's start working onyour posture, let's work on ways
(53:56):
that, once your mind startskicking in with anxiety, how do
we regulate?
How do we down regulate youranxiety?
Sympathetic functioning, how dowe get you into parasympathetic
functioning?
When do we need to do it beforeit's too late and you're just
gone, you're completely gone andit's too hard to bring it back.
(54:18):
And so we figure all of thosethings out and we start just
practicing those elementsoutside of any situation.
Just get really good with theseparticular tools that you then
have in your toolbox, and thenwe start looking at, alright,
when are we pulling these toolsout and when do we start using
(54:41):
them and when do they work andwhen is it too late for them and
they're not working anymore.
So it's, it's a process, and,and part of working with a
somatic sexologist is that youdon't just go for sessions.
You, you, you have a session,you learn skills, you go home
and practice.
The more you practice, thefaster your transformation is
(55:06):
going to be.
There's no doubt to that.
You put in the time.
It's not what happens insession, it's everything that
happens between sessions thatcreates the difference.
And then we create, we, we kindof approach these situations and
we look at, okay, if we thinkof social anxiety, for example,
(55:28):
and and, and we think, oh, I'mabout, I, I try to even put my
profile on a dating site, andjust thinking about putting that
my profile on a dating site isshutting, you know, I'm getting
completely anxious about it.
And so, okay, how about we takesome time to downregulate the
(55:50):
body before we approach the ideaof going and and going to the
dating site?
And how about we just put thedating site on without you
needing to put a profile on,just so you can have a look at
it?
And then, when you startfeeling your anxiety, how, what
tools do we need to bring toregulate that anxiety?
(56:10):
Or I'm just about to go on adate, I'm so excited, which is
great, but now I'm I'm I'mactually completely anxious and
I can't get through with my date.
What do we need to do to kindof calm the body down enough so
you still feel excited but notpetrified.
Yeah, that's on a natural.
(56:33):
It works like that for lots ofdifferent things and sometimes
we get really gritty around oh,what is actually happening in
the bedroom?
What is actually happening whenyou're having intercosco?
Sometimes the issue is thereand sometimes the issues are
more global around dating andrelating and things like that
yeah.
Ellie Goode (56:52):
I think, that's, yeah, a really good point is
just just the versatility of, Iguess, the somatic practices,
because you know it's it's thesefoundational things you can do
like in the day-to-day, you know, learning how to create that
safety in your body, in theenvironment.
You know, like you mentioned,social anxiety being a really
common thing, that obviously isnot just limited to the bedroom,
(57:16):
it's it's probably, you know,most of the person's life, you
know, in different settings, andso by by working on it, like
with those different exercises,sort of bit by bit throughout
the day, it's sort of all kindof overlaps and translates
throughout all the differentareas, which is really cool,
yeah, awesome.
And so I guess, for people whowant to, I guess, learn more
(57:39):
about, maybe studying somaticsexology or want sessions I know
you've got two courses comingup.
Did you want to sort of chat abit about those?
Uma Ayelet (57:50):
and I'd love to.
So the Institute teachesdifferent trainings.
One training that we have beenteaching for a really long time
is the certificate insexological body work, which is
the brainchild of Dr JosephKramer, who's, who lives in San
(58:13):
Francisco, and his certificateis taught all over the world
where the people who teach it inAustralia and this is for
people who are wanting to besomatic sex educators and body
workers so this certificateteaches you not just have to be
an educator, but how to workwith people's bodies, how to
(58:36):
teach your clients about touch,how to help people understand
their anatomy to physiology,their, their arousal patterns.
So we run that every year.
We have a current trainingalready going, and then we have
(58:58):
a training that is starting inOctober, which is our first
training of its kind, and it'stheir certificate in somatic sex
coaching.
And so what?
What we realized teachingsexological body work because
it's a body work modality isthat a lot of people are not
(59:18):
comfortable receiving touch frompractitioners.
Some are really appreciating itand a lot of people really need
it, but a lot of people on at anentry level that's kind of a
little bit before that they'renot comfortable with a
practitioner putting their handson them to do the work, as
important as it is, and so wedeveloped their certificate in
(59:41):
somatic sex coaching, which is anon-touch modality for people,
for practitioners, who want towork with clients in a slightly
different way.
It covers different aspect ofsex and sexuality.
We look at different aspects ofrelating different aspect of
(01:00:02):
self-practices.
We and how do you coach someonein a somatic way?
So how do we take the coachingfrom cognitive, from solely
cognitive, to somatic?
How do you teach them how to,how to feel something in their
bodies?
So that's starting in Octoberand I'm very excited about it
(01:00:24):
because we've just finisheddeveloping it and it's the first
time we're teaching it.
So, yeah, it's like our littlebaby that we are birthing.
Ellie Goode (01:00:37):
Yeah, anybody who's interested, all you got to do
is contact the Institute and wewill send you all the materials
and talk to you about it amazing, and so I guess one question I
had was because I mean, I don'tknow myself but what, what I
(01:00:58):
guess happens in a somaticsexology session for, say you
mentioned?
You know there's touch indifferent things and that maybe
somatic coaching is more thesort of hands-off sort of more
getting people to sort of feelinto their body or feeling
embodied, yeah, like whathappens sort of in a standard
(01:01:18):
somatic sexology session.
Uma Ayelet (01:01:20):
Lots of things can happen in a somatic sexology
session, and again, depending onthe scope of the practitioner
and on what works for the client, and so I work with people on a
wide scope.
And some people come to me andthey're not ready for any touch
(01:01:42):
to happen for them, and so wework somatically but without any
touch.
And some people are comfortablewith touch.
What kind of touch changes froma person to person.
But essentially we start bychecking in, where we look at
their intention for the sessionwhat and then, from their
(01:02:04):
intention, we work out what wecall a learning objective why
are you here for what?
What can what?
What do you like, do you wantto learn?
And through that learningobjective, we work out what we
call an educational contract.
So you might have a learningobjective around.
(01:02:25):
I want to learn how to accessmore pleasure in my body, and
that's a wonderful learningobjective.
And then we talk about it alittle bit because I want to see
, okay, what are you currentlydoing that's working for you and
where are the places where youcan learn more about?
And so once we figure that out,I will suggest a couple of
(01:02:48):
different learning objectives wecould do some work around.
Let's say, map your body forsensation and sorry, my cats are
going off, sorry, yeah, whatwas I saying?
(01:03:16):
So we work out a learning, alearning objectives and from
there, an educational contract,and so I suggest a few different
things, possibilities for thesessions.
I mean, maybe we do a full-bodymapping, where we literally map
your body for different typesof touch, or maybe we learn
about different types ofmovement that could help you
(01:03:40):
access more pleasure in yourbody.
So I give some ideas to theclient.
The client then chooses, theydecide what feels right for them
.
They might say I don't like anyof your ideas and then I'll
come up with some more ideas.
Or they might have a reallyclear thing oh yeah, I really
want to do this or I want to dothat.
And then we we work out.
(01:04:03):
Part of the educational contractis that we work out what that
would look like.
So if we're doing a fullmapping session, what would that
look like?
Are we going to toucheverywhere in the body, or would
, or some places of the body?
Where do we touch?
Where don't we touch?
Are you clothed?
How many layers of clothing areyou having on?
(01:04:23):
Are you covered?
Like all of those pieces arenot really up to me.
They're completely up to theclient and I have no investment
in what that looks like.
So it's all about empoweringtheir client to make their own
choices around what works forthem and what feels right for
them in the moment.
(01:04:43):
Because often people come withgreat ideas and once you know
moment like, oh, actually, Idon't want that, I that that
doesn't seem relevant anymore,and so it's that it's really
getting into the needy-greenly,having really clear agreements
what will happen during our timeof doing, and then we can
decide.
We decide how long that's goingto be for as well.
(01:05:03):
We'll do this for half an hour,45 minutes an hour.
Whatever that happens, thatwhat's, whatever is applicable,
whatever the client also feelsis a useful time for them, we
close, we go ahead and do thework.
Once that's finished, we have alittle feedback session.
(01:05:25):
We talk about what was thatlike, what worked, what didn't
work, what they learned, whatthey're taking away and what
they're going to do at home.
So, ideally, everything I teacha person or we work on in
session, there is a version ofthat that they take home to
practice.
So the last bit of the sessionis us figuring out what is that
(01:05:50):
version what that looks like,how often you're going to
practice it, and that's wheresometimes some people find it
really useful with that sense ofaccountability.
You know how, where we mightwork out an accountability
system.
Are you going to send me anemail after your practice or are
you just committing to doing it?
(01:06:10):
You know whatever works for eachperson and then we close the
session, they go home, they dotheir practice, they or they
don't do the practice, which isalso part of the learning,
because sometimes coming backand saying I couldn't practice,
I had a complete block, it'slike great, let's figure that
out, let's figure out what thisblock is all about.
(01:06:33):
And that's the work.
So ideally, you know this is.
This is not like you can onlydo so much in a one-off session.
This is all about continuous, abody of work, that that you do
with a practitioner over aperiod of time and and see your
(01:06:54):
practitioner regularly, howeverregularly, whatever regularly
means to you some people forwanting to come once a week,
others once a month, some everysix months, and that that's very
individual.
Yeah, so that's what a sessionlooks like, and then what
happens at each session isreally relevant to that
(01:07:17):
particular time, that in thatparticular session and is always
negotiated.
Ellie Goode (01:07:25):
Yeah, it sounds like, yeah, really interesting
and empowering, I think, for,you know, people to come in and
learn to practice things like,yeah, like what feels good,
these different exercisessexually, the consent, the
boundaries, even you know,saying no or, you know, just
working through whatever it isthey want to work through in a
(01:07:48):
controlled environment.
You know, because often if it'swith a partner or someone
you're having a one night standwith, probably it's not going to
be, as you know, necessarilyproductive as sort of seeing a
professional who can sit thereand process okay, let's stop and
pause and dialogue here.
You know, I think that it's,yeah, really empowering and cool
(01:08:10):
to have that container forpeople to explore these
different things sexually.
Yeah.
Uma Ayelet (01:08:15):
I think it's very important and very rare.
We don't really haveopportunities in our lives in
modern society to have thoseenvironments where we call it
practice versus concerto.
So let's say concerto is I'mjust having, I want to have
great sex with my partner, withmyself, and practice is when we
(01:08:37):
can actually put a bit of oh,excuse me add in the background.
I just saw the bays like I knowI'm trying to be serious.
Anyway, you don't have to editthis out.
So yeah, practice versusconcerto.
(01:08:59):
And this is when you knowpractice.
Concerto is when you wantthings to work really well for
you and you invest it in it, andpractice is when we can put
some of our traction or ideally,all of our traction aside and
work outside of attraction, inthat space of experimentation
and exploration and clunkinessand stopping and starting and
(01:09:24):
trying different things and notbeing invested in it working or
even feeling good, with justinvested in being curious and
having a goal.
And that can be hard to do withsomeone you're having a
romantic or sexual relationshipwith.
It's much easier to do with apractitioner who has a really
clear code of practice and acode of ethics and it's not
(01:09:44):
there to play out yourattraction to them or their
attraction to you.
Ellie Goode (01:09:51):
Yeah yeah, I think that's really cool.
Yeah, to have that.
I like to sit about practiceand concerto.
It sort of reminds me when Iused to I do piano lessons as a
kid and I would have to do thesescales, you know, over and over
and over again, and it's like,oh, this is so boring, like why
do I have to do this?
But then that forms thefoundation of the song, and so
(01:10:12):
it's very similar with thesomatic sexology where it's like
you said, you know, doing thesepractices and building that, I
guess, sexual foundation,building those skills and
grading them as habits and thenbeing able to take that into the
bedroom or into wherever, yeah,I think that's really cool.
Uma Ayelet (01:10:33):
And the other thing I wanted to mention as well,
which is an opportunity forpeople to come and practice, is
that when COVID started, wethere's a group of practitioners
we started teaching what wecall erotic embodiment classes.
(01:10:54):
So they're classes where peoplecome to do self practice, but
they're guided classes.
So it's a bit like you go to anonline yoga class and you have
a teacher that guides youthrough some kind of yoga
process.
We come in and I always had afantasy of being a yoga teacher,
that's why I say it so we comein and guide you through an
(01:11:21):
erotic practice.
We call them erotic embodimentpractices.
Some of them are more explicitthan others.
Most of them are not thatexplicit in a way, but they're
all designed to work anywhereand everywhere.
Meaning what we realized is whenpeople went into lockdown, they
(01:11:43):
were disconnected with otherpeople, they weren't receiving
touch, they weren't having a lotof them were not having sexual
connections and everybody seemedto have forgotten that they can
actually support themselves.
They don't actually needsomeone else to give them touch.
(01:12:03):
So we started.
We came up with like, oh well,let's do these online classes.
We know a lot of practices,let's just run these classes
twice a week.
People can just drop in.
It's for anybody and everybody,and people can do it.
They could be in their bedcompletely naked or they could
be in their garage on a yoga matwith, like you know, very
(01:12:25):
little privacy completelydressed, and it will work for
everyone.
There will be a version of thisthat will work for any, each,
every person, and they've beenrunning since we run them.
There are two groups now.
We have four classes a week andwe've got hundreds of people on
our mailing list who are justreally curious and really
(01:12:47):
interested and drop in atdifferent times and we get to be
really creative about what weteach and quite sometimes it's a
tariff, sometimes, you know,very explorative.
We just try a whole lot ofdifferent things.
They're completely optional.
So people come and we all sayhello to each other.
(01:13:10):
We don't stay on screen for thepractices, like you can if you
wanted to, but it's not aboutpeople watching each other.
It's more about people being ina community by doing their solo
practice on their own, and thenwe come back and have a little
feedback afterwards and say andtalk about what it was like for
(01:13:32):
us.
So, yes, if anybody'sinterested as well, there's
information on the institute'swebsite.
They're fabulous classes and Iwish the whole world got into
them, because for me I can't seea better solution to people's,
to our sense of loneliness, toour sense of anxiety, to being
(01:13:55):
able to connect better with ourbodies, to bringing some
eroticism into our lives.
You know there are lots ofpeople who are also interested
in that, and if you don't knowanything, that's fine.
You'll get lots of ideas fromus.
Ellie Goode (01:14:14):
That's awesome.
It's like a yoga class, buterotic.
I like it yeah.
Uma Ayelet (01:14:21):
We used to be called orgasmic yoga.
That was the original name ofit, that's, joseph Kramer coined
the term orgasmic yoga, whichwe loved.
But then the word orgasmic canbe a little bit tricky for some
people, because if you're notfeeling particularly orgasmic,
you think, oh well, that's notthe space for me.
(01:14:42):
Or if orgasm is difficult, youthink, oh well, that's not for
me.
And some of the practices arepleasurable, but I wouldn't say
they're orgasmic, and so wewanted to give it a wider kind
of and it's not yoga, it's notactually yoga, so we're not
doing assanas, and we thought,okay, let's talk culturally
(01:15:03):
appropriating this thing andcall it something that has a bit
more relevant yeah.
Ellie Goode (01:15:11):
Nice, that sounds super cool.
Yeah, I will be sure to link toeverything in the description,
thank you, so people can find itall.
But thank you, yeah, so muchfor coming on the podcast.
It's been a great chat, veryinsightful.
I've learned a lot.
I think everyone will enjoy it.
Uma Ayelet (01:15:27):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really I'd be reallyexcited to come on this podcast.
I've listened to it and it'sreally really great.
And yeah, thanks so much forthe invitation and thank you for
whoever's listening, forputting up with my chatting.
Ellie Goode (01:15:45):
No it's great, yeah , cool.
Well, that's the official end.
I'll just pause the recording.
But yeah, thank you so much.
Yeah, it was great.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.