Conscious Kink & BDSM with Kimi Inch - Professional Dominatrix

If you’re curious about Conscious Kink & BDSM, and you want a simple set of tools to help you explore this with your partner, this episode is for you. Kimi Inch is a somatic therapist, professional Kink & BDSM expert, and professional dominatrix, who loves helping people explore and heal their sexuality. I first met Kimi at a Tantra festival last year where she taught a workshop on Conscious Kink. I went, and had my mind blown by some of the exercises we did. Thanks for that Kimi. :)

If you’re someone who wants to explore kinky things with your partner, this episode is for you. You’ll learn some easy conversation tools & techniques to make it easy for you to explore these realms. (And remember, the main thing that makes something kinky is your own subjective feelings around the act itself). One person’s kink is another person’s vanilla. I hope you enjoy! And as always, if you like the episode, please share it with a friend.

Episode Times & Topics:

• 08:43 What is kink?
• 10:39 Do kinks come from our childhood? Are they bad?
• 22:42 Is the “good girl” kink an unhealthy expression?
• 30:48 How to begin your own kink journey
• 45:31 Surprise - Kimi guides Taylor through an exercise
• 53:03 Dominance & Masculinity
• 59:10 Shame & Masculinity

Connect with Kimi Inch

• Kimi’s Instagram 
• Kimi’s Website (for the Kink Checklist)

Connect with Taylor:

• Orgasmic Mastery Course
• Taylor’s Instagram
• Taylor’s Youtube Channel
• FREE 7-Day Semen Retention Challenge
• FREE Ejaculation Control Guide

Support the show

Episode Transcript

Kimi (00:00):
But you're right with the idea of conscious kink.
Like how do I bring the elementof the taboo and the creativity
and the unconventional in withintention with consciousness
that will be serving us for morethan just, you know, uh, a slap
and a tickle

Taylor (00:20):
Hello friend, and welcome to the Eros Rising
Podcast, a podcast for men, allabout sex, where we'll combine
real, authentic down to earthconversations about sex with
some pretty wild, personalstories and practical how-to
episodes as well.
To help you have the mostamazing sex life you can
possibly have.
My name is Taylor, and I'll beyour host on this journey.

(00:42):
And in each episode, it's mygoal to give you practical,
actionable things that you canstart doing today to improve
your sex life and to improveyour entire life.
So let's begin today's episodeby taking a deep breath in
together through the nose, anexhale with an audible sigh,

(01:04):
thank you friend for being hereand let's begin today's episode,
give inch, welcome to the show.
I'm so happy to be here with youtoday.
Thank you for showing up forthis conversation.

Kimi (01:23):
It's my pleasure to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.

Taylor (01:26):
Mm-hmm.
I first met you, I believe at atantra festival and I came to
one of your workshops aroundkink and, and it blew my mind
and I thought it was so awesomethat eventually one day we would
have a conversation about it andhere we are.

Kimi (01:42):
yay.
I love how that works.
And I really enjoyed meeting youat the tantra festival and all
the gifts that you brought.
So I was super honored to hearthat you wanted to continue our
conversation.

Taylor (01:51):
Yeah, thanks.
And actually, I, I don't evenknow why I blanked on it, but
this is our second conversation.
Kind of like this.
I had you come in to help theguys in my orgasmic mastery
course.
And that was really valuable.
I keep, uh, getting emails frompeople of like, oh, that was
such a great interview.
Thank you.
I learned this thing.
I learned this thing and yeah,it's awesome.

(02:12):
So I'm excited to go into a lotof that today and you are a
professional kink and expert.
Is that accurate?
Is that how you, what you'd say?

Kimi (02:26):
Yeah.
You know, um, it's beeninteresting cuz I've been a
professional dominatrix for over20 years and um, I have worked
internationally with thousandsand thousands of clients, um, in
the field.
And also, um, I'm a somatictherapist, essential Alchemist,
a, um, sex positive entertainerand comedian.

(02:48):
Um, and when it comes to theword kink, I've been playing
more with what that means to mebecause kink tends to have such
a limited definition for mostpeople, what pops into their
mind of what kink is.
And to me, kink is just likeunlimited creativity and
possibility.
Mm.
So I love, um, the invitationyou asked me to be here today.

(03:12):
I love creating invitations forpeople to step into what could
be possible in their eroticlives.
And kink is just one of thosetools and that I'm a purveyor
of, but there's many other toolsin my tool belt that I like to
bring in as well.

Taylor (03:29):
Yeah.
So I want to ask you thequestion, what, what is kink,
but I also, before I wanna dothat, I want to ask you if this
is something I'd like to askpeople at the beginning.
If you could go back in time andtell your younger self something
about sex that you wish you hadknown, what would you tell
yourself?

Kimi (03:49):
Ah, um, I was very adventurous and very curious
about sex, um, very early on inmy life.
And I think I would just letmyself know that this is part of
my life force energy and to keepgoing into that curiosity and,
um, embracing the creativity andthe desire and all the things

(04:13):
that were coming up for me,because it was actually really
normal and really natural andhas helped me become the amazing
extraordinary lover and playerthat I am today.

Taylor (04:24):
So embrace instead of, uh, ignore or sweep under the
rug or

Kimi (04:29):
Yeah, or be led in a direction that wasn't really
authentically my truth by thosearound me and by society as a
whole, that it's not okay forlittle girls or girls to be
interested in sex and wanting toembrace their power in the
bedroom.
And it's, uh, not okay toexpress your desires and, and
ask for what you want and all ofthese sort of things, these

(04:51):
little messages that we gotgrowing up.
Um, yeah.

Taylor (04:56):
Beautiful.
Thank

Kimi (04:58):
You.
You know, it's funny, there's aquote by, um, John Waters.
He talks about I'm so glad I wasborn Catholic because sex will
always be dirty.
I love that because I, um, I'm,I, I love that I was able to,

(05:18):
um, you know, explore the waythat I did, but also that it
wasn't just handed to me on asilver platter.
I mean, because I didn't haveany healthy role models and
didn't really know what the hellI was doing.
I had to make it up as I wentalong.
Yeah.
Um, and I think that that reallytapped me into my creativity
inside and outside of thebedroom, because I didn't know

(05:40):
what I was doing, but I knewwhat felt good.
I knew where my imaginationwould take me.
So I'm almost like grateful forthe, for the, um, yeah, for sort
of the repressions and the, thejudgements and all of that sort
of stuff.
It actually helped lead me towhere I am today.
Can you relate to that?

Taylor (05:57):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
I mean our shadow areas, ouroppressions are, are, are hurts
and pain points from younger canoften be the source of immense
learning and growth.
Mm-hmm if wechoose, if we choose them to be
mm-hmm,that doesn't mean that's easy,
but there's a lot of, uh, valueto be explored there.

(06:18):
For sure.
Totally.
And so along your journey, atsome point you became a
professional dominatrix.
Is that something you alwaysknew you wanted to do?
Or it just.

Kimi (06:30):
Oh my gosh.
You know, um, it's so funny cuzpeople are, I always am curious
if people can pinpoint certaintimes in their history where
they could be like, oh, youknow, that might have been a
contributing factor of why I am,how I am sexually today.
Mm-hmm right.
Like why I have the desires Ihave, why I have the kinks, the
fantasies, the stuff that Ihave.

(06:51):
And I remember being five or sixyears old and I was, didn't have
a lot of parental supervisiongrowing up.
My parents were pretty relaxedif they were around at all.
And I remember watching anR-rated movie with my mom and
the scene had turned into likealmost like very violent sexual
exchange between a man and awoman.

(07:12):
And I remember my mom turning tome saying, I don't know if you
should be watching this.
And I remember my whole bodywent, whew, Ooh, I'm not
supposed to be watching this why, why am I not
supposed to be watching this?
Um, and this, the immediate rushthat I got that, um, I didn't

(07:35):
know, even what that sensationwas.
It was very foreign to me, um,was just such an, an immediate
sense of aliveness and, um, anawareness and consciousness and,
um, yeah, and pleasure and, andall of these sort of conflicting
emotions at the same time that Iremember that being so poignant

(07:57):
in my life that I wanted to seehow I could recreate moments
like that.
Um, that feeling of like,

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Uh, should I be doing this?
I don't know if I should, butI'm gonna do it anyway.
It feels so

Kimi (08:10):
Good to be bad, you know, kind of feelings.
Um, and so looking back, um, asa dominatrix today, I'm like, oh
yeah, this has been in themaking for years.
Like really, really has been inthe making for years.
Um, as somebody who reallyenjoyed stepping into different

(08:31):
roles that like to createdifferent scenes and scenarios
that, you know, that was turnedon by what I perceived to be
taboo or what was told to me bysociety was considered to be
taboo.
Um, and you know, when peopleask me what is kink, it is the
unconventional insect, but the,the, the juice and the charge

(08:51):
that kink brings is usually thatthe naughty taboo nature that it
holds as well.
And that's different foreverybody.
So it's a very personal journeyand very personal experience.
Um, but yeah, um, I love lookingback on those moments of like,
oh, this is sort of this, thisis why I started to kind of move

(09:13):
in this direction because itjust felt so juicy there, it
felt way juicier to be in thatplace than the alternative.
So

Taylor (09:21):
Yeah, mm-hmm, exponentially more
juicy probably.
Yeah.

Kimi (09:25):
Yeah.

Taylor (09:26):
Probably.
So, so kink is contextdependent.
is context dependent I'm I'mhearing.
And I imagine one person couldfind doggy style sex for another
person that could be totallyvanilla for them.
And maybe their kink is theylike to get peed on or totally
pretend like they're a giraffeor something I, whatever, you

(09:48):
know.
Yeah.

Kimi (09:50):
It's interesting.
I mean, the brain is a veryfunny creature that it has a lot
of mysteries that, you know,neurologists are still trying to
figure out, but you know, thethings that, um, are centered
around are pleasure centers andpain centers and how those trans
, uh, transmitters sort ofinteract with each other.
It's no wonder that, you know,one person might grow up with a

(10:10):
foot fetish while the other isinterested in incorporating
elements of pain or fear basedplay into their, um, erotic
lives.
You know, it's, it's really, uh,such an individual process for
each person.
And, um, it, it can be a reallycomplicated or really simple
pathway to getting to where youare today, but with the
consciousness, then you can kindof decide how you wanna move

(10:32):
forward from there.

Taylor (10:34):
Yeah.
So I heard you say in anotherinterview that a lot of our
kinks or our desires andinterests have something to do
with our childhood and or thingsthat happen to us in our
childhood and hearing yourstory, I'm kind of making those
connections.
I wonder if you could speak alittle bit more to that.

Kimi (10:54):
Yeah.
You know, it's so funny cuz um,there is, uh, a sort of a common
misconception that all of ourkinks are, are tied to some sort
of traumatic episodes.
Mm-hmm could be bigT or little T.
And what I had just described toyou, I wouldn't say is a
traumatic episode, right?
That was an impression that Imade as a child based on, um,

(11:16):
you know, being with my motherand she telling me that I'm not
supposed to watch something.
And the, the physical reaction Ihad to learning that from her.
And, um, I really see that we,we get our desires, our kinks,
our fetishes from theseimpressions that are made upon
us as children.
Yes.
There could be a possibility ofsomething more traumatic

(11:37):
happening, but that's not alwaysthe case for everybody.
It is more around theimpressions that are made around
sex, intimacy, love, connection,desire, you know, like all of
these sort of things, what welearn in our home, what do we
learn in the media?
What do we learn from our peers?
Mm-hmm um, and notonly are, what are we seeing,
but what are we having physicaland visceral reactions to cuz

(12:00):
that really, you know, sets intoplace.
The, the neurotransmitters oflike, Ooh, brain is like, Ooh, I
just got something from this.
Let's let's see how we canrepeat that and repeat that and
repeat that.
The problem with that is, youknow, if people start falling
into the trap of using theirkinks and fetishes as a crutch,
then you have to keep upping theante.

(12:22):
Like how do I keep getting thatdose of, um, serotonin and
dopamine?
So how do I keep increasingthat?
Um, and yeah, we, what I do inthe work that I'm in is helping
people accept where they're at,but also giving them an
opportunity to understandthemselves better so they can
have choice in how they wannanavigate their erotic lives.

(12:42):
And they're not necessarilyaddicted or compelled to only
one sort of possibility that canmaybe open up to more from there
.

Taylor (12:54):
Yeah.
One, one piece of what I'mhearing you say seems really
important and you didn't usethis word, but the word
intentionality really comes tomind.
And from the quote that youshared earlier, when the person
said, I'm glad I was raisedCatholic, because sex will
always be dirty, dirty

Kimi (13:12):
um,

Taylor (13:14):
There's, it's interesting, like that word
dirty, it's really fun and canbe sexy, but also there's a
whole other side of it where alot of people see kink and and
related things as dirty, not ina good way.
Mm-hmm as like badand dark and shameful and devoid
of consciousness and love.

(13:36):
And yeah, I'd like to go intothat a little bit with you.
Yeah.

Kimi (13:41):
Yeah.
It's interesting because, um,I'll just, I'll just interject
for a moment to say, please,that I have actually had clients
who are struggling with theshame aspect of their desires,
their kinks and fetishes, um,and want to create more choice
and possibility in their livesand have a fear of what happens

(14:05):
though.
If I move away from this onepossibility, am I gonna actually
leave behind the feeling ofimmense pleasure and intense, um
, aliveness and things that I'vebecome so, you know, drawn to,
and, and I don't know if I'mready to walk away from that.
So the, the idea of it justlooking one way is, uh,

(14:27):
something that I try to shift ina person's perception because
you can still achieve moments ofintensity and, and, and
pleasure.
And, and maybe it's gonna beintegrated in a different way in
the body, but ultimately, um,you know, living in extremes can
be dangerous.
You know, living in thoseextremes can just be really
dangerous and limiting at thesame time.

Taylor (14:49):
Yeah.
And I could see how people wouldhave potentially really
challenging experiences ifthey're in sexual partnership or
sexual scenarios.
And one person is doing quoteunquote, doing their kinks to
the other person without someform of communication or
intentionality around it.
And then they're just being doneto, and experiencing this thing.

(15:12):
And maybe they're all of asudden that's being labeled as
kink and then it's bad.
And then is bad and then is bad.
And anyone who does, this isalso bad.
I could see like, yeah, thedistinction between there and
what I'm imagining the termconscious kink exemplifies.
Right.

(15:32):
Those are all like polaropposites almost.

Kimi (15:35):
Absolutely.
And I mean, Taylor, no wonderkink has such a stigma.
I mean, we've all experiencedconsensual pain.
We've all experienced beingconsensually submissive to an
authority perhaps, or, um, youknow, experiencing some form of
sadism that we did not consentto in masochism that we

(15:56):
definitely were unconscious of.
Yeah.
Um, so no wonder, like no wonderthere can be, uh, a feeling of
shame or there's a, a wrongnessabout kink based on our life
experience, but you're rightwith the idea of conscious kink.
Like how do I bring the elementof the taboo and the creativity

(16:18):
and the unconventional in withintention with consciousness,
um, that will be serving us formore than just, you know, a, a
slap and a tickle, but maybeit's gonna take us to deeper
places of self knowledge andexpansiveness that can really
help us, um, ultimately be moreof who we wanna be in the world.

Taylor (16:39):
Yeah.
Do you have any examples of thator stories you could share or
something to help that land alittle bit more?

Kimi (16:47):
Yeah, I have, I have so many clients, um, from many
different backgrounds, onethat's coming to mind right now
is someone who was born in aMuslim culture mm-hmm
and was actuallyraised, um, outside of this
country in a Muslim culture.
And he had discovered he waswhen he was a boy, he would
sneak these like, uh, comicbooks that sort of depicted

(17:10):
women getting kidnapped and tiedup.
And he had imagined himself onboth the giving side of that and
the receiving side of that andfound it to be really, really
thrilling.
But of course in this strictlyreligious Muslim culture, um,
any sort of sexual expressionis, you know, sort of looked
down upon in, in any sense.
So he really had to constricthis own energetic flow in order

(17:35):
to belong, right in belonging issuch an instilled survival
tactic for us, if you don'tbelong, you could be
annihilated.
Um, essentially, you know, and,um, when he came to work with
me, he had just recently, youknow, sort of stepped away from
his religion and his culture,um, and had been carrying a lot

(17:57):
of shame around who he is a lotof negative self talk and, um,
you know, slowly but surely wehave allowed space for him to
like talk about his desires in away where he's not only feeling
accepted by it, but he's beingcelebrated.
Like, you know, we want peopleto feel celebrated for who they
are and the courage it takes tospeak truth to power, to like

(18:19):
actually come out of the closetbecause there's a lot of juice
in that closet too.
Don't get me wrong.
But what we're talking about is,um, almost like the, the, the
closet can be our master.
You know, it can be our, um,repressor, mm-hmm,
been working with him and it'sbeen about a year.

(18:42):
We just had a session and hejust had his first, um, you
know, encounter with aprofessional Dom mm-hmm
.
Um, when we were speaking, hewas crying and he was telling me
that.
So for so long, he was like, ifI die, it doesn't matter.
Like it really, maybe I'll evenbe better off and maybe everyone

(19:02):
else will be better off if I wasno longer on this planet.
And now he's in this place oflike, I want to treat my body.
Well, I wanna live longer.
I want to, I see the light atthe end of the tunnel.
I'm finally able to enjoy mypleasure and not beat myself up
over it.
And I actually wanna be in thisworld, like, I wanna be a part

(19:24):
of this world and I wanna helpothers know that they're not
alone.
And just to see thetransformation from when I met
him a year ago to where he isnow, I'm like, wow, like this
is, so this is so inspiring toknow that, um, when we're able
to really step into our pleasureand be the authentic parts of

(19:44):
ourselves that we've exiledbecause of, you know, societal
norms that mm-hmm,,there's so much magic there, you
know, there's so much magicthere and he's, he's doing so
well.
And he's, he's doing a, a sixmonth private training with me
at the moment.
Um, but just to see thetransformation in a, in a year,
I'm like, oh, I can't wait tosee, you know, what's gonna

(20:06):
happen in two years, in, in fiveyears, the fact that he actually
wants to live this in this worldand he wants to live this life
because he's able to have all ofhimself is, is just so beautiful
and really exciting.

Taylor (20:21):
Mm mm that's all listening.
Take a deep breath to that for amoment.
Mm that's.
Rich sexual healing.
The desire to be alive.
Yeah, man.

(20:42):
Mm-hmm thank youfor doing that work with him and
speaking to it.
And yeah, it's, I I'm marveledby how much can be wrapped up in
our sexuality and our sexualdesires and, and how deeply that
can impact our entire lives.
I mean, I talk about this allthe time and I imagine you do

(21:02):
too, but it's, it's still likeblows me away when I hear things
like this.
I mean, people do killthemselves sometimes because
they're ashamed of their desiresand, or afraid of acting them
out.
It's it's wild.
So mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And even myself, like I'veexperienced deep healing in
certain sexual context whensomething happens.
And then all of a sudden I havea big emotional release and this

(21:26):
huge weight has been lifted fromme.
And it never would've beencleared or healed outside of the
sexual context, but somethingabout being aware of Aeros and
that energy and being in itsomehow like unlocked a door
that allowed something else toflow through.
It's magical,

Kimi (21:43):
It's magical.
You're right.
You know, I'm recently beengoing through a breakup myself
and have, um, explorederotically, not sexually so
much, but erotically with otherplay partners.
And it has been super, superhealing for my heart.
And, um, and it's just medicinethat people don't actually
realize that is so potent, youknow, the medicine of sex of

(22:07):
tantra, of kink of, uh, youknow, it's different for each
person, but it is medicine.
And, um, yeah, I love that.
You're spreading the word aboutthat.
And, and so am I, so, um, Ithink it's important for people
to know

Taylor (22:22):
Same.
Mm.
And I want to bring a story toyou right now to see what your
reaction is to it, because I sawthis and I had a reaction to it
and yeah, it's, it's along thelines of healing or shadow and
kink and all this stuff, andI'll do my best to summarize it,
but essentially maybe a month ortwo ago, I saw somebody, a woman

(22:46):
making a post on Instagram,talking about the kink and BDSM
world.
And this woman was, is in thetantra space, energetic sex
space, the, you know, that, thatvibe and exclusively that vibe.
And she was saying that there'slike fundamental darkness and

(23:08):
some amount of badness in thekink and BDSM world specifically
around this one element ofplaying the role of good girl or
using the language good girl orany man saying to any woman,
good girl, or any woman enjoyingthat.
She was kind of pathologizingthat and saying, there's no way
that can be a healthyexploration because you're

(23:31):
playing out all kinds ofpatriarchal patterns in this
sort of a thing.
And I disagree and I'm not akink and BDSM expert.
And so I made a post about thison Instagram and it ruffled some
feathers, of course.
And then some people said, well,you have no...

Kimi (23:48):
Good job, Babe.

Taylor (23:49):
Yeah.
And they were like, well, youcan't speak to that.
You can't speak to any woman'sissue cuz you're a man.
And I'm like, I'm not reallytrying to well yeah.
Speak to it.
It was a whole, yeah.
It was a whole big thing.
And so I'm just curious whatthat brings up in you,

Kimi (24:01):
If anything.
Yeah.
You know, thank you.
I, what comes up for meinitially is again, what we're
talking about, the individualexperience, um, and what one
individual experience ofdesiring words like good girl to
be said within a neurotic space,what that means to one person as
it does to another mm-hmm um, because it is

(24:22):
such a personal experience.
And again, through the consciouskink realm, there is an idea of
like, we are consciously goinginto this and having agreements
and consent around the wordswe're using, the activities
we're engaging in and the energyof the interaction that we're
gonna be.
Um, also engaging in as well.
Mm-hmm, um, Jean inas well.
Um, and I do get curious with myplay partners.

(24:44):
Like if let's say, you know, Ihave a, a female play partner
and she's telling me I lovereassuring language.
I like to words like good girlor you're my good little girl or
things like that.
You know, I get curious around,like, what does that do for you?
What does it do for you when Iuse these words?
Like I do like to help peopledig a little deeper, um, before
I pass judgment on why it'sthere in the first place,

(25:07):
because there could be elementsof the patriarchy and that's
okay too.
Why not?
Like, like we can go into thatconsciously mm-hmm
um, it could be also somethingfrom childhood that can be
really strong for people.
It could be from a past memorythat like, again, I had told you
a past memory of mine, but it,it could be another past memory
for somebody else that theywanna explore that in a safe

(25:29):
container.
Um, maybe they always wanted tobe set told that, but they never
were, you know, there could beso many things.
Um, but I get really curious andI don't like blanket statements
about, um, one thing that it'sone size fits all for
everything.
These generalizations that tendto be so typically encapsulated

(25:50):
for and kink, like it'sdifferent for each individual.
And instead I would love to bemet with curiosity around like,
what is it about being told goodgirl that feels good for you?
Or what does it bring up foryou?
Or what are those things?
And like, let's continue tobring in more consciousness and
intentionality in it, you know,let's continue to, um, dive

(26:11):
deeper into these activities andthese roles into these, um, you
know, energies that we'recreating.
Um, yeah.
But yeah, as a blanketstatement, like you're
describing it, it saddens me.
It really does sadden me.
Um, I think women should havethe right to explore their
surrender with a malecounterpart.

(26:32):
Um, even if it were to evensymbolize the patriarchy in a
more avert sort of way, mm-hmm if they feel like
it's gonna benefit them and helpthem grow in some way, I, I
give, you know, I give kudos tothose that are, you know,
bringing that level ofconsciousness in and those who
are not as long as they're doingit with consent.

(26:52):
Um, and, and that they're, youknow, taking care of themselves,
that's all that matters to mebecause I know when I'm in a
place space with someone, I amno longer available to be used
as a tool that's going to abuseyou or that is going to
traumatize you, or that is goingto, um, hold you back from your
ex you know, from your, um, selflove.

(27:14):
I'm not available for that kindof exchange.
Even if it's a humiliationscene, I have to have a really
thorough conversation withsomeone before I'll engage in
that kind of scene, because I'mnot interested in doing your
dirty work.
Like I'm not interested in beingused to, um, say the words that
you already say to yourself.

(27:35):
Like, I, if anything, I wannabring that more into your
consciousness.
And I've said that in session,like I am going to rip you into
pieces, but I want you to knowthat I could never ever do this
as well as you do this toyourself.
And if anything, I'm anextension of you that you can

(27:56):
stand up to at any point.
And I usually, after an end of a, uh, humiliation scene, I
usually bring in a lot of reallyloving language and really like
kind language and bring inreally kind touch and, and
gentleness, um, and presence.
And I mean, I'm always present,but that loving presence, um, so
that they can really feel that,that they know that this was,

(28:18):
you know, um, an agreementbetween the two of us, for them
to have an ex experience thatI'm hoping will help them have
less charge around.
Um, whatever's lying underneathall of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hmm.

Taylor (28:33):
Thank you.

Kimi (28:34):
Yeah, you're welcome.

Taylor (28:36):
Yeah.
I'm gonna make a broad sweepinggeneralization here and
say, I love it.
Um, yeah, I have explored a fairamount in the tantra world, uh,
the energetic sex world and somein the kink world, not nearly as
much, but one thing that I'mregularly impressed with is the

(28:59):
level of intentionality andcommunication and expression of
boundaries and desires andrelationship statuses and all
this stuff in the conscious kinkworld as compared to what I've
experienced a lot of in thetantra world.
And it's, it's, it's been quitedifferent in my experience.
Mm-hmm and a lot ofthe times in the quote, unquote,

(29:22):
tantra world, I have experienceda lot of, oh, it'll just be
fine, like trust and surrender,or like I'm aligned with spirit
or this sort of a thing.
And then it might feel good inthe moment, but then later on
you realize that you actuallycrashed the car or the train,
and now you have to deal withall this fallout.
And I see it happen more oftenthan I would imagine.

(29:42):
And I'm sure things like thathappen in the conscious kink
world too.
And maybe I'm just not exposedto it, but in my experience,
well, that's, yeah, that's beenmy experience.

Kimi (29:53):
yeah.
It's interesting.
Cuz you know, I've been in thisgame for 20 years and there has
been, um, and it's, and it'sfinally merging together, but
there has been a lot of, um,judgment and separation between
the kink and tantra communities.
Yeah.
Um, and again, they, you see howthey're merging now, which I
think is so beautiful becausethey're, you know, these erotic

(30:14):
spaces where I think there'sgifts and uh, that each
community can bring into, uh,you know, the, the, the middle.
But, um, yeah, I've been in alot of, um, it's so funny.
I, I can almost say this aboutconscious communities in
general.
I've seen a lot ofunconsciousness and conscious
communities.
Yeah.
And a lot of like what ishappening and, and cttra spaces

(30:37):
and, and yeah.
There has been in kink spaces aswell.
I mean, it's, it's just sort ofall over the place, so yeah.
Fighting the good fight and keepspeaking out about, you know, um
, healthy practices, um, yeah.
Is important.

Taylor (30:51):
Yeah.
So kink all this stuff,conscious kink, let's say
there's somebody listening rightnow and they're kind of new to
this and they're interested,intrigued and they have a
partner and they're wondering,okay, well what, how do I do
this thing?
What, how would I, yeah.
Where do I start?

(31:11):
Where

Kimi (31:12):
Do I start?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fair question.
You know, um, I love, um, forpeople where wherever they're
at, if they are able to tap intotheir own communities, that's
usually a really good start.
Um, you know, if you're in a, atown that's not close to a major
city, like what is your closestmajor city and finding out what

(31:34):
are the mus and gatherings andmus are, um, gatherings for
like-minded people in the kinkscene that don't necessarily
feature any play or activitiesexchanged at the, at the space.
It's just more of a meeting and,and a place to greet others and
to make community and to makeconnections.

(31:54):
Um, and it's really good.
You know, again, we were talkingabout belonging E uh, earlier,
um, for people struggling withtheir kinks and desires and
fetishes.
You know, one of the things Irecommend is finding community
is like finding others thatmaybe don't have the exact same
interests as you do, but have anidea of what it feels like to,

(32:16):
you know, be pursuing theseunconventional practices.
And it's good to have a sense ofcommunity.
I feel like for those lookingfor play partners or, or
partners that they want to divedeeper with and explore with
mm-hmm,, there's somuch, um, personal work to be
done.
It's kind of amazing to me whenI meet people on their journey.

(32:38):
And they're like, well, when Ihave a partner, then I'm gonna
really explore my sexuality, myside, mm-hmm, my
sensuality, but you know, I haveto find the right person to do
it with.
And, um, mm-hmm,,I'm like, and I'm sure you can
agree with this Taylor, likethere's even in kink, which is
very heavy, uh, heavily sort of,um, dependent on partner

(33:01):
interactions.
There's still a lot ofindividual exploration and work
that one can do to start reallylaying the foundation, um, and
creating the fertile grounds togrow the erotic life that you
wanna to, to have bountiful likereally like starting with
yourself.
The education piece could not bemore important.

(33:24):
And if you want to again, findmore community being in, um, you
know, online classes and inperson classes and workshops.
So you're continuing to expandand educate yourself and meeting
more people and, and learningmore, uh, just by yourself is
gonna create that magnetism ofdrawing in what you wanna
experience more of in your life.

(33:44):
So don't sit there listener andthink that you need to have a
partner in order to start thispath and this journey, um,
really look in the mirror andsee like, where are you at in
your own journey in your ownpath?
And are you ready for the playpartner?
Like, are you like gonna be ableto provide that container with

(34:06):
your partner in order to havethat exploration, even with the
kink checklist, um, which I knowwe're gonna talk about later,
but even with the kink checklist, um, that's a great powerful
tool for communication with yourpartner, but it's also a great
introspective tool for anindividual to go through and
feel into their own bodies andinto their own hearts and see,

(34:27):
where am I at?
What is exciting to me?
And not only what activities amI interested in like, oh, I see
spanking here.
That sounds cool.
All right, let's go deeper.
Why does that sound cool?
What would be the perfectscenario, spanking scenario that
you're aware of in this moment?
Mm-hmm, likespanking for me might be
spanking, might be different foryou, Taylor.
So, you know, it's such a greatintrospection tool.

(34:50):
And again, I feel like thebetter understanding you have of
your desires, the more, um, openyou are to attracting what you
want in your life, because youhave that understanding and you
know how to take care ofyourself.

Taylor (35:06):
Yeah.
Exploration is availableeverywhere.
everywhere.
Single or not.

Kimi (35:13):
So many resources.

Taylor (35:15):
Ugh, totally.
And there's so much pressure outby yourself too.
It's amazing.
Yeah.

Kimi (35:20):
And listen, Hey, you know, you can, and for those that are
like, Hey, I, I kind of wannadip my toe in with a partner
mm-hmm and I'mstruggling to find one, hello,
there's professionals out therethat can provide an experience,
um, tailored to yourspecifications where it's really
an experience for you to haveand to be supported and

(35:43):
witnessed and, and cared for in,um, that is also available.
Like I'm all about sex work.
Mm-hmm and tocontacting, um, someone so that
you can get more experienceunder your belt and to learn
more about yourself in theprocess.
That's also, uh, available aswell.

Taylor (36:00):
Yeah.
Cheer to that.

Kimi (36:02):
Yeah.

Taylor (36:03):
So let's talk about this kink checklist thing.
I have a copy here.

Kimi (36:09):
Yay.
Good.
How do you filled it out?

Taylor (36:11):
not this one, this one's blank, but I wanna
share a story when my partnerNaema and I came to your
workshop at the Tantra festival.
Yeah.
Last year, I think it was lastyear.
We got this kink checklist andI'll read a couple of things off
of here just for the peoplelistening.
So you get an idea.
There's a few differentcategories on the C checklist

(36:32):
there's impact, play,restraints, sensation play,
fetishes, sexual activity,breath, play bodily fluids, et
cetera, roles.
And underneath those are a bunchof check boxes.
And for example, like underimpact play there's spanking and
flogging belts, paddles, whips,uh, under bondage, there could

(36:53):
be rope or gags and under breathplay, there could be choking or
smothering or breath control,bodily fluids.
There can be water sports orgolden showers.
And so what my partner and I didin your workshop is we had two
different, um, we had twodifferent copies of this and she
went through and she checked herlist.

(37:14):
And then I went through and Ichecked my list, all the
different things that I wasinterested in.
And then we compared notes andit was this really cool
communication and explorationtool of, okay, what am I
interested?
Okay.
What are you interested in?
Whoa, you're interested in that.
Interesting.
I didn't know, you know, Ididn't check that box, but that
actually seems really intriguingto me.

(37:36):
I think I'd like to try that.
And it was a really cool tool toexplore

Kimi (37:41):
How fun I love that you guys had that, um, experience of
doing it individually and thenbringing it together to, um,
compare notes and to, to sort offind maybe your hell yeses
together and maybe even wereinspired by each other's, um,
interests and delights.
So how fun.

Taylor (37:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, I believe how canpeople find this checklist it's
on your website,

Kimi (38:05):
Right?
Yeah.
It's on my website.
You sign up for my mailing listand you'll be, um, emailed a
free copy of the kink checklist.
And, um, I wanted your listenersto know that this is not a
complete list because mm-hmm, there are so many
possibilities, um, and endless,yeah.
Endless possibilities of whatcould be explored in a space

(38:27):
like this.
But, um, it's a good littlebasic, um, foundational sort of
list that hopefully is a goodconversation starter, or at
least we'll start to, um, openpeople up to different
possibilities maybe that theydidn't consider before.
And it's always evolving, youknow?
Yeah.
It's always evolving.
Like the more you build trustwithin yourself and your

(38:47):
partner, you might be like,actually I am interested in this
whole breath play thing, or I aminterested in things that feel a
little, that felt a little riskybefore.
I'm actually kind of curious onwhat it would look like and what
would the, the pinky toe looklike for me to experiment with
this.

Taylor (39:04):
Yeah.
And, and there's a lot of stuffon there too, that that's will
probably expand your mindaround.
What's possible.
I mean, there definitely is forme even looking at this right
now, I see one mm-hmm that says
mummification I'm like, whoa.
Wow, cool.
Yeah.
All right.
And then there's role playing.
Yeah.
Sorry, go ahead.

Kimi (39:23):
No, it's okay.
Just taking a mobilization tothe ultimate level of really,
um, yeah.
IMing someone from head to toeso that they can really feel
their helplessness or it helpsthem just feel so relieved of
responsibility that it justtakes them to these really
amazing places of liberation.
Um, depending on the person.

(39:44):
Yeah.

Taylor (39:44):
Mm-hmm yeah.
So all kinds of stuff in here,threesomes, fisting, anal plugs,
interrogation, medical scenes,age play.
And so say a couple is goingthrough this list and they're
wanting to try some of thesethings.
What, what, what next?

Kimi (40:03):
Yeah.
I tell people, I think a healthybaby step in exploration doesn't
actually involve acting outanything just yet.
Like, I think it's a really wiseidea to go through the list and,
you know, maybe hit some of the,like the top three or five of

(40:24):
the desires per person and, andlay down together.
And maybe there's some strokingor touching of some kind, but
ultimately it's about, you know,bringing in the language of what
the scenario might look likebetween the two of you and just
using your imaginations andpower of voice to have a mental
exploration to see like, oh, arewe on the same page?

(40:48):
Like, I'm actually, now thatwe're talking about it more, I'm
hearing how you are enjoyingfeeling more of your
helplessness.
And before I thought, you know,maybe you just wanted to feel
punished, but, um, this isactually illuminating because
I'm having a betterunderstanding of why you like
these certain things and what itmeans to you and not just the

(41:09):
activities themselves, butwhat's the energy that we're
participating in these actslike, is it a light, playful,
coy exchange?
Is it a hardcore intense, no,kind of a scenario.
Um, because all of that energyis gonna be really important in
the expression of what you'redoing.
And you can do something thatmight seem on paper as hardcore,

(41:33):
like whipping you can doactually do that very lightly
and playfully and, uh, somethingon paper that maybe feels to
most people as, oh, that's solight and that's not a big deal,
like dirty talk.
You could do that really.
I intensely and really hardcore.
So there's a spectrum ofintensity and you can decide
what level of intensity youwanna bring these sort of, um,

(41:53):
encounters to life within.
And I think that's part of thenuances that people forget that,
that there's this whole sort oflike range of intensity that you
can play in and you could doeverything in a really light way
and start to increase theintensity as you go mm-hmm

Taylor (42:08):
yeah, yeah.
Super useful.
You don't have to jump rightinto full mummification
no, you could try maybehandcuffs or even just thinking
about it.

Kimi (42:19):
Yeah.
Right, right.
You could tell your partner,like, you know, I want you to
see how it feels to sit in thisone position and if you move one
muscle, you're gonna, you'regonna get it or you're gonna,
you know, suffer some sort ofconsequence or yeah.
Um, you know, and, and see howthat feels even, or how does it
feel if we agree that we aregoing to explore something for

(42:40):
10 minutes and 10 minutes onlywe'll actually set a timer.
So we both know whether we loveit or hate it.
It's gonna be over in 10 minutes, um, and dive into the
exploration and theexperimentation of it.
And then after the 10 minuteshave some reflection around,
like, how did that feel?
Is that something that we wannabring more into and go deeper

(43:00):
with?
Were you longing for me to goeven harder?
You know, I, I do that in airquotes when I say harder, but,
um, mm-hmm,, youknow, and, and you're, you're
creating little science labs foryourself to sort of decide, oh,
what is feeling really good tous in this moment?
And again, it changes yeah.
All the time.
Like what, what your partnermight love one day is like, oh,

(43:21):
that's not, that's not my body.
Isn't yearning for that rightnow.
My body can't take that rightnow.
Let's, let's, let's switchgears.
So it's an ongoing conversationand it's never static.

Taylor (43:32):
Yeah.
And so that 10 minute time chunkwhere you're experimenting and
then it's over, and then youhave the reflection period that
would be called.
You could call it a scene.

Kimi (43:43):
That's true.
I mean, a scene is...

Taylor (43:45):
Heard you, I heard you use the word.
Okay.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm I heard youused the word scene earlier and
I'm, I'm

Kimi (43:50):
Sure.
Thank you.
Yeah.
It's an, it's an agreement forthe holding space of the time
we're gonna play in.
So yeah, that container could be, um, a 10 minute scene of us
doing exploration of these fiveor 10 different, um, activities
that we've discussed previously.
And, um, and we can kind ofstart small there.

(44:11):
It's interesting because so manypeople feel like that over
planning and that, um, that sortof pace feels like it takes the
passion or the excitement out ofthe play, but it's actually just
creating a stronger foundationfor you to be able to really
open your bodies up to becauseas fun as the whirlwind of like,

(44:33):
we like, um, you know, kind ofjust being in the moment and,
and maybe exploring something,meanwhile, there are gonna be
parts of you that may not be aspresent because of your nervous
system, because of your past,um, you know, traumas or, or an
E, or sort of interactions thatyou've had.
And when you're really able tomove slow, you're able to really

(44:56):
be fully embodied in everythingthat you do.
So your play can actually go todeeper places than in the
whirlwind of, oh, like let'sjust, you know, try this out and
just like, go for it.
Like, it actually is beneficialto create a little structure and
foundation, um, because it doesopen you up to a deeper
expression of what's possible.

(45:19):
Hmm.
I love this conversation.
I still love it.
Like, I feel like my body'sreally warm right now.
It feels good, you know?

Taylor (45:31):
Yeah, yeah.
It does.
When you were speaking, justthen I had this idea come to me
of yeah.
A scene as something I wouldlike to do.
That's yeah.
Um, what, what's the term?
Is there a term for it?
Uh, it doesn't yeah.
Medical scene.
I think it'd be really fun toset a timer.

(45:52):
And I like, I really like thisidea of a timer.
I haven't thought of thatbefore, but with my girlfriend,
maybe she plays the role of thedoctor and I'm the patient.
And I come in and maybe we havea 12 minute window, you know, or
whatever, whatever the time is,cuz in a doctor's visit, you
only have a little bit of time.
Maybe she would even start thattimer.
And then it would be the sceneof what would happen in there.

(46:12):
We could come up with whateveragreements we wanted to, but
yeah, that seems fun.

Kimi (46:17):
so let me ask you, would you be willing to try
something with me right now?

Taylor (46:22):
Sure.

Kimi (46:23):
Okay.
Why not?
So let's say let's do a quicklittle check in, so tell me a
little bit more about themedical thing.
Like let's say I was the doctor.
Okay.
Like what have you, what, inthis very short period of time,
could you imagine being athrilling experience in that
dynamic for you?

Taylor (46:43):
Uh, so this ultimately stemmed from, I think a couple
years ago I went to thedermatologist to get a mole
check and the dermatologistdoctor was totally just gorgeous
to me.

Kimi (46:56):
Attractive.
Yeah.

Taylor (46:58):
Yeah.
Great.
And in my head, in my head, Iwas like, don't get in erection,
don't get in erection what weneed to like don't think about
sex, you know?
Yeah.
And afterwards this fantasy sortof, uh, percolated up and like,
Ooh, what if she had actuallylike brushed her hand a little
bit more against my abdomen anddid a slight smile kind of
thing, but I wasn't sure if shewas doing that or not.

(47:20):
And there was this intrigue andthere was this exploration and
she did another light brush overhere, long story short.
And it turns out like we wereboth into each other.
And then there was like a reallyhot five minutes of just all
kinds of sexual, sexy stuffbefore she had to go on to the
next patient and then boom doneover

Kimi (47:40):
Mm-hmm I like it.
Why don't you close your eyesfor a minute and you can stop
this at any time.
Cool.
You can stop this at any time.
And I just want you to take adeep breath and just feel your
body.
And what are you noticing?
How your body feels aftersharing that with me,

Taylor (47:58):
It's warm.
And uh, if, if entertained canbe a feeling it's entertained,
there's like gidiness to it likea tickle feeling maybe in my
belly.
Good.

Kimi (48:11):
Mm-hmm yeah.
So staying with your body withyour eyes closed, I want you to
imagine you're in a doctor'soffice right now and that same
gorgeous doctor is walking intothe room and you're noticing
just how sexy she is.
Mm-hmm um, howbeautiful.

(48:31):
And she's like Taylor.
So I understand there's beensome concern about the small,
I'm gonna have to do a reallythorough examination and make
sure that we cover every inch ofyour body to make sure that
there's nothing there that is ofconcern.
Do you understand?

Taylor (48:50):
Mm mm-hmm

Kimi (48:52):
You do good.
Yeah.
Then I want you to take off yourshirt and I'm going to explore
your body a bit more.
And I want you to imagine thatthe tips of my fingertips are
running along your skin.
As I'm looking you up and downand you're feeling really
exposed and you might be evenfeeling a little excited and I'm

(49:17):
noticing the energy shifting inyour body.
And I tell you, I think it'sbest for you to take off your
pants because I wanna be able tosee all of you.
So I sit down in my chair and Itell you to take your pants off
for me really slowly while I sitthere and look at you, as you
begin to expose yourself.
So taking a deep breath, doesthis scenario seem sexy to you?

(49:42):
Or what is this feeling like foryou?

Taylor (49:46):
Yeah.
Mm, yeah, definitely sexy.

Kimi (49:49):
Good.

Taylor (49:50):
For sure.
Just even the little spark ofarousal.
Yeah, yeah,

Kimi (49:54):
Yeah.
So this way of sharing with yourpartner, what you were sharing
with me, and I'm not yourpartner I'm um, um, but I'm
interested in like picking up onwhat you're setting down and
also like investigating more,like, how is this though for you
and is this what you wereimagining and what would make
this even juicier and what wouldthis make, what would make this

(50:17):
even hotter?
So I'm collecting theinformation and the data you're
going deeper into the fantasy.
And, um, so many people that Ispeak to are like, I know we do
the checklist and we did allthat, but I don't really know
how to begin or how totransition into a scene.
And, and you know, they're like,okay, we did the list, I guess,
come over here and bend over,you know, like, and, um,

(50:42):
yeah, um, it can be awkward tolike move into that erotic
space.
So, um, I love using languageand imagination and feeling our
own bodies to kind of drop in tothe moment deeper.
I may not be in the same roomwith you, but I could feel a
synergy between us as you'resharing with me.
So vulnerably and thank you forthat.

(51:03):
Um, and the excitement it causesme of like, oh, like if, if I am
what I'm hearing brings up thisfor me of how I would interact
with you, if I were your doctorin that scenario.
Um, and it's just unlimited whatwe could create together.
I mean, that was just a fewseconds or a couple minutes, but
, um, it's so rich, you know?

Taylor (51:25):
Yeah, it is rich and it occurs to me how luscious of a
resource our minds andimaginations can be in the
exploration of sex.
I mean, this is something Ihaven't personally explored much
of is this role playing scenetype stuff.
Like I've explored lots of otherthings, but not so much here.

(51:46):
And I noticed being guidedthrough that, there was this
intrigue to try it and likeactually go for it, you know,
like really try taking on thoseroles and seeing what happens.

Kimi (51:57):
Yeah.
And it could have gone in a lotof different directions where
totally, you know, and it couldhave, could turn into something
that is a, maybe a little, uh,bit more power dynamic, where
I'm gonna start to tell you whatto do and this, and, and then,
or it could turn into somethingmore sensual.
Um, and maybe you even turn thetables on me.
I don't know.

(52:18):
Like it could, it could bereally, um, it could be whatever
you want it to be.
And that's sort of the biggestmessage I try to drill into
people is like, really, what doyou wanna create?
Because you don't have to makeit look a certain way.
You don't have to, as, as a manTaylor, you don't have to be the
dominant.
Or if you do wanna be thedominant at one point, maybe
we'll switch at a certain stageand play in different

(52:39):
polarities.
Like it's really like a dancebetween two people and you get
to decide what sort of dance youwanna create.

Taylor (52:46):
Yeah.
Yum.

Kimi (52:49):
Yeah.
yes, please.
The,

Taylor (52:52):
The piece that you just spoke to, um, you said as a man,
you don't have to be dominant.
I'd love to unpack that.
Maybe that's the last topic wego into here, but yeah, that's,
that's such a big one andthere's so many guys out there
that have this idea of dominancebeing linked with masculinity

(53:13):
and that if you step out of thisrole, then it means maybe you're
not a man or you lose part ofyour manhood or masculinity or
something like that.

Kimi (53:24):
And yeah,

Taylor (53:25):
That's a, I get it.
I get the fear.
I understand the fear and it's abummer.
That's sad to me.

Kimi (53:32):
Yeah.
And it's so interesting cuz Idon't equate dominance
necessarily with the masculine,um, energy per se.
There are the polarities presentbetween masculine, feminine
dominance and submissiveness,um, that are really fun to play
in, but I've been deeply in myfeminine, in a dominant role.

(53:54):
Um yeah.
Where it was more about themagnetism and drawing in, uh,
that was the power that I wascultivating in that moment
instead of the more masculine,um, you know, acting out or, you
know, mm-hmm, uh,doing.
So I think you can incorporatethat.
I actually love a term in tantracalled, um, AISM and I'm not

(54:15):
sure if you're familiar withAISM, but it's the consciously
taking on roles to play outdifferent power dynamics that
aren't just limited to dominanceand submission, but it could be
Sheva, Shaki energy.
It could be tiger and antelopeenergy.
Yeah.
Right.
Like you don't have to limityourself to this idea of, um,
dominance, maybe it's solar andlunar energies are still these,

(54:36):
um, polarizing dynamics, but itcan still be really juicy and
not necessarily thishierarchical, um, idea of what
dominance and submission isbecause really at the end of the
day, when I think aboutdominance and submission, both
people already have power.
Both people have choice, youknow, it's, it's all kind of a
role.

(54:56):
It's almost like pretend.
So sometimes I'm like, why do weeven call it dominance and
submissions sometimes?
You know, I'm like, if anything,the hierarchy is not real.
You know, the submissive isthere of their own free will and
is creating the opportunity.
And I like to think of thedynamic more as dominant is more
of the artist and the submissiveis more of the muse, like both

(55:18):
are needed mm-hmmand they inspire each other and
um, they create the arttogether.
Um, but there is no hierarchythere.
And the thing I, I get sort oftired about the language that's
been used in kink for so long issort of this like limited
hierarchical sort of viewpointsof what power and surrender are

(55:40):
if I speak to another man.
Um, and it's usually men morethan women.
Um, when I ask them, you know,what do they love about
dominance?
And they're like, I lovecontrolling my partner.
I love controlling theenvironment and I love
controlling this scenario andI'm like, but that's not what
you're doing.
Like you're actually notcontrolling any of it.
At least I hope you're not.
Um, because really, maybe

Taylor (56:00):
That's where the problem comes in.

Kimi (56:01):
Maybe that's where, cause it's the such of this limited
mindset.
Um, because it's already notreal, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But the polarization it's real,you know, the feminine and
masculine is real.
The, you know, um, what we wannastep into, um, in that dance can
be real.
The leader follower is real.

(56:22):
Um, but it's a, it's a workingwith, it's a, co-creation, it's
a collaboration.
Um, yeah.
And that's the message that Ireally want people to start
shifting into out of.
Like, I'm gonna do a bunch of toyou.
Like I'm not interested in doinga bunch of stuff to my partner
as the one who steps into thedominant role.
More often, I'm more interestedin helping my partner feel

(56:43):
themselves deeper.
I want my partner to be morevulnerable.
I wanna open my partner up innew ways.
Um, and I'm not attached to iteither.
Like I'm not, you know what Imean?
I have no attachment to, um,what that's gonna look like, but
I want, I have a desire and Iwanna create the space for
anything to show up that needsto show up.
But when I mm-hmm,am going in with this idea of

(57:04):
control, I think it's reallylimiting on what you can create.

Taylor (57:10):
Yeah,

Kimi (57:11):
Yeah.
I'll take so for the men, so themen out there, yeah.
Let's take another breath andthe women really wanting their
men to step into that dominance.
I ask the women like, what areyou really wanting to feel
through that?
And if it's the surrender andthe care, um, and the safety and

(57:33):
the security, um, I think that'sjust a really wonderful thing to
recognize.
And to know that it doesn't haveto look one way.
Yeah.
Um, that it can look a lot ofdifferent ways.
Um, I love as an attunementexercise before I play with
someone after we've done ourkink checklist and after we've
decided, you know what our yesesand no's are, um, mm-hmm,

(57:57):
we, well, I'lldance with my partner and I'll
say let's just dance.
And like, let's not even worryabout who's leading.
And who's following, let'sactually switch off and there'll
be moments where we're bothleading.
There's be moments where we'reboth following.
Um, but we'll kind of switchback and forth.
And then we'll start moving intolike the agreed upon dynamic of
me being leader.

(58:17):
And I'll really step into thatinto the dance.
And then, um, at a certainpoint, I'll start incorporating
some of the activities andthings we discussed in our kink
checklist, but it's actually areally fun way to just dance and
move my body with my partner andplay in the leader follower and
the polarity and, and kind ofswitch back and forth as we warm
ourselves up and then startmoving into the places we really

(58:40):
wanna travel to.

Taylor (58:42):
Yeah.
I love that.
That resonates with me a lot.
And I've been taking more andmore partner dance classes
actually here in Asheville thisyear.

Kimi (58:49):
How fun

Taylor (58:50):
It's super fun.
And yeah, it's helping me getmore accustomed to the different
energetics of the leader andfollower position, cuz in these
dance classes we're rotatingbetween those, you have the
option to, and I'm learning alot being in both positions.
And one thing that's striking meas I'm hearing you speak about

(59:11):
all, this is just how much, uh,fear or shame or baggage or
thoughts or whatever is wrappedup in all of this.
At least from a maleperspective, from my perspective
there have I've experienced inthe past fears of, uh, being in
this submissive position fearsof receiving.

(59:33):
It's really hard for me to letgo of control and hard to
surrender in those experiences.
I've also had fears of beingdominant fears of being the
quote unquote toxic man, youknow, fears of hurting that my
partner or being, having mydesires be too much or dirty or
something like that.
And there's, there's fear andbaggage on both sides of these

(59:54):
things.
Mm-hmm and I'veexperienced immense pleasure and
joy in exploring all of it too.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
All, all parts.

Kimi (01:00:07):
I love that.
You're acknowledging the fearsthat have come up and um, what
interesting information for youto maybe get curious about and
what that, you know, what that'sum, what that's an extension of?
Is it really yours or is itsomething, does it come from
somewhere else?
And if it is yours, then maybebringing that into the space,

(01:00:28):
um, and letting it be present inthis space would be really fun.
It's so funny.
You know, I, I talk to men whowant to, um, that want to step
in more of their leadership anddominance and they are very,
very adverse to the idea of themstepping into any semblance of
submission mm-hmm,um, and to step into that

(01:00:50):
follower role.
And I, I let them know that thatcould be a place to really look
at because if you are expectingyour partner to step into a role
that you have a lot ofresistance to and judgment on.
Yeah.
Then why are you, why would youfeel like you're creating the
space for your partner to reallyfully embody that aspect of

(01:01:10):
themselves?
Um, there are always gonna be,there's always gonna be a little
level of separation and I'm notsaying that you need to get down
on all, all fours and lick thefeet of your partner in order to
, to understand what I'm talkingabout.
But like we're talking aboutlevels of intensity and in
different ways of engaging inenergy and it could all be

(01:01:31):
energetic doesn't ever have toresult to an interactive
physical exchange.
Yeah.
Um, seeing what that brings upin you and, and what feels like
what comes through in your body,because it might actually take
you to some deep places.
And, um, ultimately my partnersare only gonna go as deep as I'm
willing to go.
My partners are only gonna go asfar as I'm willing to go.

(01:01:54):
And that is where it endsperiod.
So if I'm not gonna let it in,if I'm not gonna feel it, if I'm
not going to be in my surrenderand in my openness, they are not
going to be as fully into theirsas I, as I want them to be.
It's just the way it works.
Um, and when I start torecognize that and what I wanna

(01:02:16):
create, it's a bit more of amotivation to be like, yeah, I
actually do want to look at theplaces that I'm adverse to and
resistant to and, and understandthose places better.
Um, and through that courage, Ihope that I can inspire my
partner to do the same cuz theyknow that I'm there with them in
every step of the way I've beenthere myself.

Taylor (01:02:36):
Mm mm mm mm yum.
That is a wow.
The perfect.
I think maybe we'll call it atthat.


Kimi (01:02:48):
Yay.
Great.

Taylor (01:02:49):
That was good.
Is there any, um, any last thingyou want to add before I ask you
how people can find you?

Kimi (01:02:56):
Uh, you know, uh, I just like to remind people again, I
know we mentioned it earlier.
No, none of this ever has tohappen by yourself.
Um, there are resources, thereare others out there.
Um, there are, you know, so manydifferent options these days
that we're super blessed by.
So please know that you, your,um, isolation or your fear or

(01:03:17):
your shame, um, can be temporaryand that there is something on
the other side of it.
And it's really the life thatyou wanna create is at your
fingertips, you know, just trustin that.

Taylor (01:03:28):
Hmm.
Yeah.
And for any guy out there whowants to explore submission type
experiences, I'm here to tellyou they're awesome.
Yay.
They can be incredible.
Yeah.
From personal experience and Ilove the other side as well.
So it there's pleasure to be hadin all of it.

Kimi (01:03:45):
All of it.

Taylor (01:03:46):
Yeah.
All of it, man.
So I, I kind of want to, I mean,we'll have to circle back around
in the future and do anotherepisode doing a deep dive.
I

Kimi (01:03:53):
Would love that into

Taylor (01:03:54):
All this stuff.
Love that.

Kimi (01:03:55):
It'd be super fun.

Taylor (01:03:56):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Um, you're welcome.
In the meantime, how can peopleconnect with you and find you?

Kimi (01:04:02):
Yeah.
You know, uh, my website is agood place to start.
It's just my name, Kimmyinch.com.
K I M I I N C H.
And then you can find me throughsocial media, through my
[e-mail], um, ornot.com, but just at Kimmy inch.
And, um, yeah, I do everythingfrom online courses and programs
to in person immersiveexperiences.

(01:04:24):
I do something called consciouskink journeys, which are like
medicine journeys, but kink isthe medicine.
Um, and there are greatopportunities for people to have
an experience of kink thathopefully will help them achieve
more that they want out of life.
And also, I, I work privatelyand mentor and train and educate
those that are interested instepping into this work, even

(01:04:45):
bigger.
Um, everyone from just curiouscouples to, you know, healers
and therapists, um, and I workwith all individuals and couples
alike.
So just reach out to me and wecould set up a call and see, uh,
if this could be a right fit foryou.
And I'm happy to just be able tohave a chance to speak to your
audience.
So thank you for having me.

Taylor (01:05:05):
Hmm.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for thisconversation.
I really appreciate your timeand your wisdom and your
knowledge and all yourexperiences.
Thank you.
And if you're listening andyou're ever at a workshop or a
festival and Kimmy's gonna leadsomething, definitely go.
They've been some of my favoriteexperiences so far.
So yeah.
Thank you again, Kimmy.
I hope you have a beautiful restof you day and to all you

(01:05:27):
listeners.
Thank you too.
I hope you have a beautiful restof your day, cheers to your
success and your pleasure.
We'll see you next time.
Thank you friend for listeningto this episode.
I have one request before yougo.
If you got something useful, ifyou got something valuable from
this episode, please take amoment right now to go to apple

(01:05:49):
or Spotify and leave a review ofthis podcast.
That'll be really, reallyhelpful.
And it'll do two things.
Number one, it'll let me knowthat you actually like this
podcast.
Number two, it'll help morepeople find this podcast.
And I think that's reallyimportant because I believe we
all need to be talking about sexmore.
So the more I share it, the moreyou share, the more we all talk
about this, the bettereveryone's lives will become all

(01:06:11):
around the world.
So thank you.
Thank you for sharing thiswherever you share it.
Thank you for your review.
And if there was anything aboutthis episode that really hit
you, that really struck you orimpacted you, please shoot me a
message too on Instagram or withan email and let me know.
I'd love to hear how this hasimpacted your life.
So thank you.
Thank you.

(01:06:32):
Thank you again.
Cheers to your success.
Cheers to your pleasure.
And I look forward to seeing younext episode.