Testosterone & Male Hormone Optimization with Dr. Tracy Gapin

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Tracy Gapin (00:00):
Any guy should have healthy, normal sex drive,
and that goes for any age, andoften older men have a declining
libido or sex drive because thehormones are declining, and so
I view that as an indicator, asa subjective assessment or
metric that we can use to gaugethat.
And so when your hormones areoptimized, yes, you should still

(00:23):
be having sex drive and sexualactivity.

Taylor Johnson (00:29):
Hello, friend, and welcome to the Sex Upgraded
Podcast, a podcast from an allabout sex, where we'll combine
real, authentic and down toearth conversations about sex
life and relationships with somepretty wild personal stories
and practical how-to episodes,as well with guest experts from
around the world to help youhave the most amazing sex life
you can possibly have.

(00:51):
My name is Taylor and I'll beyour host on this journey, and
it's my goal with each episodeto give you practical,
actionable things you can startdoing today to improve your sex
life and your entire life,because a thriving sex life will
help you thrive in all areas ofyour life.
So let's begin today's episodeby starting with a deep breath
in through the nose, into thebelly together, exhaling with an

(01:14):
audible sigh, and let's getinto today's episode.
So there has been a lot of talkabout hormones recently, at
least in the circles that I'm apart of and in some of the

(01:36):
podcasts I listened to and someof the men's groups I'm a part
of too and maybe it's becauseI'm 38 now I'm getting what some
would call older the talk ofhormones and the talk of life
optimization.
It's coming up more and moreand more, and today I'm really
excited to be joined by Dr TracyGappen, who is a board
certified urologist and who issomebody who not only is that,

(01:57):
but also who works withentrepreneurs and athletes and
helps people to optimize theirperformance in all areas of life
, and so I'd love to dive into abunch of this stuff and share
some of my own personal journeywith it and get your perspective
here today for the benefit ofeverybody listening and men
around the world.
Thank you, tracy, for beinghere.

Oh, absolutely Thanks, Taylor, glad to be with
you.

Yeah.
So could you give just a littlerundown?
What is it that you do?
Who are you and what do you doin the world?
And then I'll ask some morespecific questions.

So I like to joke that I'm a retired.
I'm a recovering urologistafter almost 25 years of urology
.
I set away from traditionalmedicine about three years ago
and now I'm the founder CEO ofGappen Institute, where we focus
on precision medicine, reallyto help entrepreneurs who want
to optimize health, performanceand longevity.

Great.
So what are some of the mainthings that you find yourself
doing with people?

So the most common things I see with
entrepreneurs are I have lowenergy, I have difficulty
focusing, I have brain fog, Ican't think like I used to,
can't burn fat, can't buildmuscle like I used to.
Sex drive isn't what it is.
Not performing the way I couldin the past, and guys will say I

(03:15):
want to be the best version ofmyself.
What I got to do to live notjust longer but better.
And there's a lot of talk aboutlongevity, which is great, but
I mean shit.
I want to be my best self rightnow.
I'm not focused on when I'm 90or 100.
And so a lot of guys have thosesame concerns and you know, men
are simple creatures.
Most the clients I work withare men.

(03:36):
We work with some women as well, the mostly men, and it's those
same issues over and over again.
And so that's what we reallygot good at.
Yeah.

Would you say it's always the same cause, or,
oh my gosh no, no, yeah, no,it's actually interestingly
different.

Almost every guy we work with, yeah, and so I
have a what I call my Gappenmethod where we take a very
precision based approach.
So we start with precisiondiscovery, where we understand
you know, where are you now?
Where do you want to be?
Diving deep into lifestyleenvironment.
It could be alcohol, it couldbe toxins, it could be poor
sleep, it could be anything youcould think of related to

(04:13):
lifestyle.
And then we look at precisiondiagnostics, where we dive deep
into the, into the advancedtesting, looking at labs for
hormones, micronutrient levels,inflammation, cardiovascular
risk, gut health, stuff likethat, and that's I call that,
finding your blind spots.
And then precision data.
I like to say one size failsall, and so we use data like

(04:36):
genetics and wearable technologyand body composition testing
also, that we can understandexactly what's right for you and
have clear metrics tounderstand if what's working or
not, because every guy is sodifferent and what I recommend
for Joe isn't going to be thesame for Bob or Paul or Taylor,
right.

(04:56):
And then it comes down toprecision design, and that's the
fun part.
That's where we really design ablueprint for you.
When it comes to, you know,guys say just tell me what to do
.
Again, we're simple creaturesand we just want to give me
clear framework of what do Ineed to do in my daily life, and
so that includes lifestyle, youknow, stress and sleep and
fitness and nutrition.

(05:16):
It involves molecules, so we'lloften prescribe hormones or
supplements or some fun peptides, and then we may incorporate
some alternative therapies, likeyou know, red light, cryo sauna
, pemf you know fun stuff likethat as well.

This just sounds quite different from
traditional urology.

This is not urology, my friend.
Yeah this is precision medicine.
This is for high performers whoreally want to, you know, have
more energy, burn fat, buildmuscle, have better sex and live
longer.

Right, Right, got it.
So lots of guys are differentand you prescribe different
things for different people.
Have you seen some generalthemes, though, in terms of the
underlying causes?

Yeah, great question.
I would say yes, withoutquestion.
Some of the common culprits wesee are number one hormones.
So I call it a testosteroneepidemic we're dealing with,
where almost every man I meethas low testosterone levels, and
when they have low testosterone, they often have issues with
other hormones.
And you know, the mistake thata lot of men's health centers

(06:17):
will make I'm using Eric quoteshere for those of you listening
is they'll focus on justtestosterone.
Come on and get yourtestosterone shot and you're
good.
Well, the problem with that isthat we have 50 hormones on our
body we have to worry about.
Yeah, it's not justtestosterone, it's DHEA, it's
thyroid, it's nitric oxide, it'svitamin D, it's nulletone, it's
progesterone, it's estrogen,it's leptin, it's growing.
It's all these hormones thatcome together and have an

(06:40):
influence, and so we need tolook at them as a whole and
understand how they're eachcoming into play.
So hormones is, withoutquestion, one of the biggest
culprits.
Yeah, gut, health will be thenext one.
So issues with our microbiome,which is the balance of the good
bugs and bad bugs in our gut,and there's this constant battle
between the good and bad, andthat dramatically affects energy

(07:01):
, hormone, neurotransmitters,metabolism, immune system, and
so that's often an underlyingproblem as well.
Taylor.

Cool.
So before we keep going in thatdirection, I want to jump into
the testosterone piece, becauseyou just said almost every man
you meet has low testosteroneand I'm curious like what sort
of metric are you using for that?
Do you have a certain number inmind?

Great question.
So, in general, most docs arelooking at total testosterone,
which is flawed for many reasons.
Number one your totaltestosterone doesn't matter,
right?
Because a lot of yourtestosterone, most of it, in
fact almost all of it is boundto proteins in the bloodstream
which make it inactive orunavailable for use.

(07:46):
It's bound to proteins likeSHBG or sex hormone binding, and
then, to a lesser extent, otherproteins like albumin, etc.
When testosterone is bound, itcannot get into the cell, it
cannot bind to the androgenreceptor on the surface of any
cell and therefore it cannothave any physiologic effect.
And so we care about freetestosterone specifically.

(08:08):
And so for all the men outthere listening, be sure you're
checking your free testosteronenot total, but the free, because
that's what really matters.
The next thing to understand isthat the lab numbers on the
right side of the page whenyou're looking at your lab
results, that's not optimalideal, where you should be.
That range on the right youlook at the top doesn't say

(08:32):
optimize levels or best levels.
It says what reference range.

Yeah, it says normal.
This is the normal.

So what is normal is the question, and your
doctor will tell if you're inthat range.
Your doctor is gonna tell youyour quote normal.
I would tell you that wordnormal makes me want to puke.
Yeah, because that range issimply the average of all the
lab tests that this lab may do.
So Lab core quest, or whereveryou're going, is going to get a

(09:04):
billion testosterone levelsdrawn and they're going to
simply have the average or themedian, and Then, statistically,
two standard deviations aboveand below that median will give
you that reference range thatthey put on that page, and so
you'll see this ridiculous rangeof like two, twelve to eight,
eighty or something like that,as, as this quote reference

(09:24):
range, and guys will go to theprimary care doctor and, well,
your test, your your toldtestosterone 301.
So your normal quote unquoteyour god and Therefore you don't
quote qualify for testosteronetherapy.

Yeah.

So the problems with that are number one, you
can't look at all, you have tolook at free and number two, you
have to understand that thereference range is just the
average.
We know from three massivelongitudinal studies, one here
in the US, some two in Europe.
These were 20 30 year studiesthat follow lab numbers and they
found that free testosterone isdown by almost 50% Over the

(10:01):
last 20 years.
50% drop in free testosteroneit's crazy.
Yeah, that's nuts, it is yeah,yeah.
And so when you look, when youlook at that reference range,
next time you look at that,think about the fact that range
is Almost 50% lower than it was20 years ago.
Yeah, and so you don't want tobe on the lower end of that
range, you want to be in theupper end of that range.
In fact, sometimes you want toactually even be above the range

(10:22):
, and that's okay.
Hmm and so to give the listenersa target, guys always just give
me a number.
What's the number?
Yeah, in general depends on thescale you're using.
But in general you want thefree testosterone To be around
20 to 25.
Hmm, got.
Some guys may be needed higherthan that, some guys may be okay

(10:42):
with a little lower than that,but generally a target for free
testosterone is around 20 to 25.
Some labs have a differentscale where that number should
be 200 to 250, so you gottaunderstand which scale you're
using got it, but it's just adecimal point we're talking
about here.

That's right, yeah, and that's right and most
guys.

Taylor, they'll come in and they're free to.
You will be four, it'll be six,and their doctor told them
they're fine.
Yeah, and so that's the realproblem, yeah so alright, so
let's.

I want to make this personal because I think
it'll be really interesting forthe listeners and maybe add a
new, a new nuance that youhaven't done on the show, who
knows.
So a couple months ago Idecided you know what I'm gonna
do?
A testosterone test, but I'mgonna do some hormone tests.
And I got a before and afterand I did a 30 day like not
extreme, but somewhat of atestosterone boosting protocol,
to see what would happen.

(11:27):
You know, awesome, and it wasreally a really interesting
experience.
I have some numbers that I canshare.
I can also link to the YouTubevideo that I shared about that
in the description, but just thequick Baseline is that after 30
days, my testosterone, mytestosterone levels, didn't
change at all, but what didchange was my cortisol, my
stress hormones, dropped like25%.

(11:48):
It was really interestingbecause I was experiencing
Lethargy, lack of motivation,lack of sexual desire.
I was experiencing difficultygetting regular erections with
my partner.
And when I look at my lifestylewe had bought a house months
beforehand we had beenrenovating, renovating,
renovating I had been workingconstantly, doing all the shit
all the time and then I thought,oh, if I just work harder and

(12:09):
boost my testosterone, thencertainly I'll feel better again
.
But it seems like what my whatI'm making it mean is that, oh,
maybe I needed to actually justde-stress and get some Massages.
Yeah, at least that's whatseems to be reflected in the
data.
I'm wondering what yourthoughts are on that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get
that.
Stress is such a big deal.
And then, taylor, I'm gladyou're bringing this up.
So Most guys I work with when Iask about stress like yeah,
yeah, I'm fine, I'm no, I'm okay, I'm.
You know, I'm driven, I'm agrinder, I just doesn't bother
you, yeah.
But what happens is when you'reconstantly going, you're like a

(12:46):
race car in the red where youthink you can survive and be
okay.
Yeah, that cronically elevatedcortisol, which is your stress
hormone.
What does it do?
It's a bad consequence.
It's number one is it crushesother hormones.
It turns off testosteroneproduction, turns off thyroid
production, turns on DHEA.
It crushes your gut.
So cortisol is a catabolicHormone.

(13:10):
It is.
That means it's preparing yourbody to go fight that tiger.
That doesn't exist, right, it'sjust in our minds.
It's just us not knowing how toturn it off, and so it's
mobilizing fuel To fight thistiger.
Yeah, it raises a blood sugarwhich is not good for building
muscle, burning fat.
It crushes your gut.

(13:30):
It's actually depleting thehealthy amino acid lining that's
protecting your gut.
To use those.
It's like carrying down yourhouse to use the bricks.
Yeah, and what that does now isit causes major gut issues,
which then have a Even furtherconst.
You know, downstream effect onthe rest of your body as well,
and neurotransmitters onhormones, on everything, yeah,

(13:51):
and so it's really importantthat we understand how stress,
how cortisol, is affecting ourbodies and being cognizant of
what are we doing to overcomethat totally.

I think this is something that Obviously I'll
speak for myself.
But what I've seen in workingwith a lot of men and in the
society right now is that menOftentimes like, well, we're
really socialized to beproduction machine, machines,
right, we're programmed to likework, work, work constantly
produce, produce, produce,provide, provide, provide, and
there is a certain kind ofreward that comes from that,
like it felt really good in manyways to be doing all the stuff

(14:26):
that I did earlier this year.
It was very successful by anumber of metrics, you know.
And at the same time there wassort of this like Running on
empty that I was fueling fromcaffeine and just, I guess,
stress like cortisol.
I was fueling this from anothersource that ultimately wasn't
giving me the lifestyle that Iwanted, and I know there's a
number of other guys out therewho are experiencing something

(14:46):
like that.
It's funny, my men's group wewere joking about it just within
the last couple days, how like,oh, taylor, maybe you didn't
need to work out more, maybe youjust needed to cuddle with your
puppy and then you would havehad better sex.
Who knows?

that's right, you know yeah, the last hour,
just before our interview heretoday, I met with a wealth
advisor, a local wealth advisor.
He's very successful andthere's a first-time meeting and
I said, thomas, what do youlike to do?
I like to work, and he has atwo-year-old at home, little
baby at home, he's busy at workand he has no hobby other than

(15:21):
just work and coming home andbeing a dad and and it's so
common when hyperfoaming men getinto this routine, this habit
of taking care of everyone elsearound them but when is a time
for you?
And and where's the balance inyour life where you are create?
And this is about I talk aboutliving with attention, where
you're carving out time For justyou to do whatever the hell you

(15:43):
want, whatever it is you liketo do I don't care if you like
to go bowling or like to go fora walk on the beach when is you
time where you can literallyturn it off?
No phone, no tablet, no device,certainly no emf producing
things in your ears and Justenjoy whatever hobby it is that
you enjoy?

enjoy life.
So you, I mean, sounds likesome pretty straight-up, simple
advice.
You want to live a better life,like do fun things, do you find
?

enjoy your life , right?
Yeah, you have to enjoy it.

It'll probably reflect in your hormones and
then all these other areas,right, yeah?
So I want to give you a coupleother numbers because I think
it's really interesting andyou're making me scratch my head
too, because I just did one ofthose online tests.
Right, I didn't go I don't havea medical provider right now
analyzing any of these resultsand I thought similar to what
you said.
I thought, huh well, justbecause it's normal doesn't mean

(16:31):
that's where I necessarily wantto be, and my levels run the
lower and upper ranges of whatnormal is.
So they were lower in terms of,like, the free testosterone
range was actually nine, sothat's quite a bit lower than
the 20.
There you go, 20 you talkedabout and my sex listen half
where you want to be yeah, yeah,which is interesting to hear
and my sex hormone bindingglobulin, which is the thing you
talked about earlier, whichbinds to the testosterone in

(16:52):
your body.
That was up at 48.7, which issuper, very high, very close to
what the quote-unquote normalrange is, and so yeah.
I'm sitting here thinking likehuh, when you're looking at me
right now and you're hearingthose numbers, like, what
thoughts are you having?
Are you thinking, oh, taylor?

very common, yeah, so very common.
So what's happening is you knowyou have low testosterone, okay
, make no mistake about it, andyour primary may say something
very different, which is flatout wrong.
But when you have suboptimallevels of free testosterone,
what does it do?
And from head to toe it'saffecting cognitive function, so
you don't have the mentalacuity, the focus, the
concentration, the memory thatyou should.

(17:31):
It affects your mood, so youdon't have as much pleasure but
as much enjoyment in life.
It affects your relationshipwith your partner.
We don't feel Like being asintimate as maybe you would
otherwise.
It's important, for, obviously,body composition is important
for skin, is important formuscle and bone health, so it
helps you burn visceral fat,which relates to cardiovascular

(17:53):
disease.
In fact, we know that now withlow testosterone have about a
30% increased risk of coronaryvascular disease, cardiovascular
disease, major adverse cardiacevents about 30% increased With
guys with low testosterone.
That's been validated in over adozen studies.
So it's pretty clear evidencethere.
It's associated with energy,for sure.

(18:14):
It's associated with sleepquality, associated with, of
course you know, physicalperformance and recovery from
workouts, recovery in sports.
Obviously it affects sexualperformance.
It affects nearly everything,yeah, yeah but, yet it goes
under the surface, relativelyunnoticed, because you

(18:35):
compensate for it and youovercome it with other.
You know raising cortisol tohelp your mind.
You know try to function better, all these ways of coping.

A compensator, yeah yeah, and my cortisol
levels were pretty close to thehigh end of what's considered
normal and similar withprolactin levels, yeah, and it
just gave me this picture oflike huh wonder what's really
going on there.
Sounds to me like you wouldn'ttell me to just take
testosterone supplements, right?
Sounds like we'd have a longerconversation about a bunch of
stuff.

Yeah, it's never just testosterone, and I
want to just preface that byfirst saying that I Recognize
and appreciate in value then thenatural ways to boost
testosterone I don't want tominimize those and that they are
effective to raise testosterone.
What I find when you do thosethings you know improving sleep
quality, micronutrients, heavystrength training especially the

(19:25):
large belly muscles like quadsand hamstrings, and back and
core Work on proper nutrition,reducing stress, all these key,
you know.
Sunlight to your, to yourtesticles actually helps.
Tea.
When you do all thesenon-invasive, natural approaches
to testosterone, it may helpget your free tea from seven to
nine.
Yay, and Most guys need morethan that as well, and so I

(19:48):
don't look at it as either, or Ilook at it as, and a lot of
guys need testosteronereplacement as well.
However, that's just one pieceof a much more complex picture
that that guys need tounderstand that, yes,
testosterone is important asWell as everything else that we
talk about.

Yeah, interesting.
So 30 years ago testosteronelevels are higher in everybody,
right, mm-hmm, and they're yeah,it's just not that way right
now.
So I'm curious like what do youthink If you could hypothesize,
like on a systemic level, asocietal level?
Like what do you think some ofthe societal level, and then
we'll move to the Individual,but some of the societal level

(20:27):
impacts are of a whole, likesociety of men with lower
testosterone.
Have you thought about that?

Yeah, yeah, great question, no, great, yeah,
very good question.
So what we've seen is that theparallel here is not just
testosterone.
We've actually seen a similar50% decline in fertility.
Yeah, we've seen a decline insperm counts and sperm function
and infertility.
And so the underlying cause ofall this, the etiology, which I

(20:56):
believe is clearly toxins in ourenvironment which have been
demonstrated dramatic effects ontesticular function, which
includes sperm and testosterone.
I truly believe, taylor, if wedon't change something I've said
this before and I've been veryoutspoken if we don't change the
current path, in 20 years fromnow, we're going to have an
impotent and infertilepopulation of men.
It's a big deal and, forwhatever reason, it just doesn't

(21:19):
get the attention that I thinkit needs.

Yeah, yeah, perhaps because people are still
having babies.
Yeah, maybe less so than usualor less so than it used to be,
but still babies are popping outpretty regularly.

It seems to me Definitely declining, though,
and we see obesity is worsening.
We've seen for the first timein decades that lifespan is
actually decreasing, and some ofit may be related to COVID, but
without question, we're seeingfor the first time in a long
time we're dying younger, and sowe've got to make change.

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
You're saying that you thinkthat one of the biggest causes,
if not the main cause, of thisis overall toxins in the
environment, plastics, all kindsof hormones and stuff in the
water supply, which seems to meif I'm thinking about it out
loud right now it's not the sortof thing you can optimize a lot
of stuff in your life.

(22:13):
But what I'm thinking is youcan't necessarily optimize away
from using plastics, and does itactually balance it out?
I mean, I guess you could tryto shift over to using all glass
, everything.
But here I am sitting in thismicrophone cable as plastic, I'm
sitting on a plastic chair, mywhole room is full of plastics
everywhere, and I'm drinkingwater that I am having filtered

(22:34):
and reverse osmosis and addingminerals to it, but I'm still in
the air with all thesepollutants.
So then I guess yeah, thequestion is going back to what
you said is it even possible,with lifestyle and diet, to
optimize enough to get up to thelevels that you're talking
about being optimal?

Very point.
So can you eliminate exposureto these toxins that are
ubiquitous, that are freakingeverywhere?
Totally no, you can't.
You're absolutely right,they're truly everywhere.
They're in your car Shit IVtubing.
You go to the hospital and getan IV.
The IV tubing is plastic aswell, but what we know is that

(23:13):
the longer that chemical, thatplastic, is in contact with our
food or water or us, is when itmakes a difference.
So things like our things thatyou can control are things like
your laundry detergent, thingslike your deodorant, your soap,
your shampoo, things that aregoing to be on your skin for a
while.
Plastic bottles.

(23:34):
Water bottles are everywhere.
Plastic power rate gatoradebottles are everywhere.
Plastic cake cups areeverywhere.
Yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Non-organic fruits andvegetables which are sprayed
with chemicals like atrazine andglyphosate.
A lot of the non-organic, a lotof the non-grass-fed organic

(23:56):
milk is full of chemicals andfull of hormone, synthetic
hormones.
Non-filtered drinking water hassynthetic estrogen from women's
birth control.
So yes, there are toxinseverywhere and yes, it's
literally impossible to avoidthem completely.
I believe that there are a lotof things that we can do on a

(24:18):
daily basis to dramaticallyminimize that exposure.
Now, unfortunately, there arestudies that show that there's a
transgenerational effect and sothe exposures that our
grandparents had and our parentshad have been passed down to us
and will continue to pass thosedown to our next generation.
That's kind of scary to thinkabout, interesting.

(24:41):
So it makes it that much moreimportant that you want to do
the best thing for your kids,and there's a lot of epigenetics
involved in how your lifestyleand exposures is directly
affecting your germ cells, yoursperm, that are being passed
down.

This podcast is brought to you by all the men
who have gone through mytrainings over the years.
Thank you.
You are the sponsors of thisshow.
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You can live the life you trulywant.
If you want to check those out,there are links in the episode
description.
With all that being said, thankyou again.
Let's get back to today'sepisode.
I'm the sake of science, Justfor anyone who's listening I

(25:57):
previously also did a fertilitytest, just to see, because I
think it's really interesting ifI'm going to be here talking
about all this stuff.
For me, all those levels wereactually higher.
Well, I guess here I'm thinkingout loud they were in the
normal range.
But then what is normal?

Yeah, that's the question.

That's right Interesting.
Okay, I've got a handful ofquestions over here on my list
that I would like to ask you.
I guess, just talking about thehormones for a little bit
longer.
In terms of lifestyle, say, forexample, somebody does want to
make a shift and they do want tostart with just general
lifestyle stuff.

(26:37):
They optimize their diet, theystart heavy strength training,
they do what a lot of the videoson YouTube are talking about
and they hope to see results.
How long does that take?
Is there a general baseline forthat?
Is it a month?
Is it three months?
I say that because I posted onthis YouTube video and I shared

(26:57):
all the details of everythingthat I was doing based on these
other videos, and somebody said,oh, you should really recheck
at the three-month mark, becauseone month isn't enough time to
change anything.
I'm curious.

I see it as a spectrum, no-transcript.
What are the natural thingsthat we can do?
I think, for us to set thefoundation for the listener of
what are these naturalapproaches or what are these
lifestyle maneuvers that we canis nutrition, sleep, stress and
fitness would be, and I guesstoxins could be our fifth.
We'll talk about toxins verybriefly.
Nutrition I like to never paintmyself in the corner and talk

(27:35):
about one specific diet, becauseeveryone's so different and
genetics and testing can tell uswhat foods you should or should
not be eating.
But in general, it's focusingon whole food diet.
It's focusing on eating realfoods, fresh fruits and
vegetables, preferably organic.
It's the lean meats and fish.
If you're not vegan orvegetarian or plant based, focus

(27:58):
on grass-fed meats.
Focus on wild caught fish.
If you're going to eat those.
Focus on making sure thatyou're eating the right
macronutrient ratio, and that'sdifferent for every individual.
Make sure you're focusing onthe right amount to be caloric
intake.
That's based on race tometabolic rate, et cetera, and
what your goals are and how muchyou should be eating.
So work with someone to helpfigure that stuff out.

(28:21):
Fitness make sure that you'reincorporating something into
your daily life.
I like to just simply say getoff your ass and do something
every day.
I think at least three days aweek need to be strength
training.
I think a lot of guys tend tooverdo cardio.
Just go for a three-mile jog.
That's not going to get youanywhere.
You need to be building muscleand often that requires strength

(28:41):
training.
Most guys don't eat enoughprotein, so I like to emphasize
at least 0.8 to one gram ofprotein per body weight and
pounds daily.
That's tough to do.
If you know this, you have toreally work and get enough
protein in your diet.
I like intermittent fasting afew days a week.
Looking at stress stressmitigation we talked about that

(29:02):
a little bit already.
I won't belabor that point.
But what can you do to mitigatestress?
Meditation, mindfulness, saunais great for that as well.
Just freaking, go out and enjoywhatever hobbies you like.
Then finally, it's sleep.
Sleep gets underappreciated,but you need to get seven and a
half hours of sleep.
Most guys don't get nearlyclose to that.

(29:22):
They think I'm fine with fivehours of sleep and you're just
not.
You're fooling yourself if youthink you're okay with five
hours of sleep.
That requires that you reallymake sleep a priority and set a
schedule and have a sleeproutine for those few hours
before you go to bed whereyou're avoiding blue light and
you're getting your mind in acalm space.
That's all the foundation Iwant to make sure that we
establish.
Those are the things we'retalking about doing.

(29:43):
When you do all that stuff,you're going to see benefits
from day one all the way throughday 365.
Some of them are going to bevery quick.
Others are going to take a lotlonger.
A lot of guys are like well, Igot to burn 20 pounds of fat
fast.
Well, you're not going to dothat in a week.
You're just not Be realisticand think of how long it took
you to get there.
It's going to take that long toget you back again.

(30:04):
I think being realistic aboutexpectations is really important
.
I think that in the first week,when you do all these things
perfectly, you're going to havemore energy.
You're going to have moremental clarity.
You're going to have more focus.
You're going to be able tothink a little clearer.
Things are going to be a littlebit sharper.
Your mood may be a littlebetter.
The next week it may be alittle bit more, a little better

(30:24):
, a little better by the end ofmonth one.
Yeah, you're starting to havesome momentum.
Now you may be lost a pound,that's okay.
We don't care about weight.
We care more about bodycomposition.
We're obsessed with metricslike lean muscle mass and
visceral fat and body fat, whichyou need to measure that with a
device of some kind.
Don't look at the scale so muchas look at how you're feeling,

(30:45):
look at how you look in themirror.
Even the body compositionchanges are the last things
you're going to see.
Guys are wanting to see thoselove handles disappear.
They're just not.
But when you have the energynow and the focus and you start
to feel some confidence andmomentum and drive now you can
start to really start to be thatmuch more disciplined and

(31:06):
vigilant about the fitness andthe sleep and the nutrition.
It's a journey, it's a process.
There's not an end.
I think guys are looking forthat magic day where they're
finally done and I feel greatand I have great sex and I love
my body.
I can just stop and go to shitagain.
Give it as a process and you'realways getting better, you're

(31:27):
always refining it.
But yeah, it's tough becauseguys have unrealistic
expectations about what's goingto happen after a month.
Yeah, yeah and so look what.

Well, yeah, I'll just say, in doing the brief
research that I did a littleover a month ago, starting to do
my own 30-day thing, there weretons of videos and articles out
there about 30-day testosteroneprotocol.
Do this thing in 30 days, dothis thing in 30 days, do this
thing in 30 days.
You want the quick metric andyeah, quick win.

(31:58):
Yeah, totally Quick win.
Take the pill.
Well, don't take the pill inthis case, do the lifestyle
thing, but have it in a quickamount of time.
So that makes sense.
Three months probably would bea little bit different than one
month, that's right.

Yeah, Now I'll tell you as part of my precision
medicine practice, we doprescribe a lot of hormones, we
prescribe a lot of supplements.
We do prescribe a lot ofpeptides as well.
But I want to emphasize that Ido not believe that those
replace the lifestyle stuff thatwe're talking about here.
I think they go hand in handand for a lot of guys like you,

(32:31):
for example, when yourtestosterone goes from seven to
nine after all the hard work youdid, it could be a little
deflating.
We're like God damn it, I didall this hard work in it.
Yeah, I still haven't gottenanywhere close to where I need
to be.
When we can fix hormones bysimply giving testosterone, we
can try and talk about ways ofdoing that and safety and all
that is documented.
But when you do that, you'regoing to feel better so much

(32:53):
quicker.
You're going to have the energyin the drive where you're going
to want to just crush it everyday because now you've gotten
some momentum behind you.
That kind of helps give youthat kickstart so you can do all
the other hard work that youneed to do.
But I never want to leave myclients to believe that
prescribing these molecules inany way can replace all the
lifestyle stuff as well.

Totally yeah.
I heard somebody once say Iforget who it was but when your
testosterone levels do increase,it makes doing the work feel
rewarding itself like inherently.
Yeah, it's like a rewardingmechanism.
It's pretty cool, that's right.

Yeah, it's pretty cool, it's motivational.
It's like you feel like you'remaking progress.
It's like you're checking theboxes off that list.
Some people get obsessed withjust checking boxes off a list
and it gives you thatsatisfaction for sure, totally.

As you were talking earlier, I was thinking,
and I felt this at differenttimes in my life.
You know, you listed exercise,you listed diet, you listed
working out, you listed sleep,you listed all these protocols
man, that's a lot of work to dojust to be in an optimized space
.
Like can't I just sit aroundand my body will work it out?
Or I know there are people whofall into that and I fall into

(34:04):
that sometimes Like why can't itjust be simpler, or something.
And I guess I think back to if Ithink back to how we evolved,
like we didn't evolve to bedoing the things that we're
doing today.
Right, like I'm sitting waymore even than I used to do in
my previous career because ofthis particular kind of work,
and I'm sitting way more in myprevious career than I was

(34:27):
sitting, way more in my previouscareer than I would have 100
years ago, you know, becausethere weren't even computers.
I would have been doing outsomething with my body on a
regular basis.
So like the entire context oflife is just fundamentally
different right now and I thinkthat's probably why we're seeing
so much of what we're seeing inthe world, which is why you're
doing the work you're doingsounds like.

It's complex.
You're exactly right, and guysare looking for the easy button
and there's just not one, andthat's why we do what we do,
where we honestly you know wherewe thrive and where we
specialize is and help themconnect the dots and put all
those pieces together, becauseit's confusing, it's
overwhelming, and God, you lookon, you go to Twitter and
there's like 10 different peoplebattling over the right tests

(35:11):
to do for cardiovascular healthor the right diet, or the right
fitness or it's all nonsensewhere you need to individualize
it based on what's right for you, and that's why I say one size
fails all and so it'scomplicated.

So would you say that there's a lot of men out
there.
They're living suboptimally andthey don't even know it, and
they don't necessarily have areference point for what optimal
even would be.

I love the way you put that.
Yeah, I would definitely agreewith that.
You know, it's like you don'tknow what you don't know.
You don't know how good youcould feel.
And our tagline at GabinInstitute is be your absolute
best again.
And that last word is verycritical, because we find that a
lot of guys will suddenly wakeup one day, and maybe when

(36:00):
they're 45, maybe when they're52, but someone that kind of 40
to 55 range.
We're like, wait a second, shit, I don't feel like I used to, I
can't recover like I used to, Ican't burn fat, I can't build
muscle like I used to, I can'thave sex like I used to, I can't
think like I used to and I justwant to be my best again.
And so you're right that itsneaks up on you where for a
while you tend to compensate andthink I'm fine, I'm fine, until

(36:22):
suddenly you're like holy cow,what happened?
And it's predictably rightaround that age, anywhere from,
you know, 40 to 55, when thathappens.

Yeah, so do you think?
I know that there's talk of,and I've just kind of generally
understood, that the desire forsex drops over time and with age
and our bodies change as well.
Right, like, say, you lived in90 years old, right, you're not
going to be functioning at 89the same way that you're
functioning at 30, you know, butyou're saying you still can't

(36:50):
optimize that.
So I'm wondering is there let'ssee how to phrase this question
there is this emphasis insociety on performance and
strength and being optimized,and might that in some way for
some people overshadow the verynatural process of aging into a
lifestyle that is potentiallymore relaxed or more, you could

(37:16):
say, getting into the wisdomcategory?
Do you know what I mean by that?
Am I articulating that?

Yeah, I think I understand where you're going
here and I think it'sinteresting the current focus on
longevity.
There's a lot of talk aroundlongevity and what are the we
now understand kind of the 12basic hallmarks?
What does aging look like firstof all?
So then we can learn how tomeasure and how to affect that.

(37:44):
But a lot of things that we'retrying to do to improve
ourselves today may actually goagainst longevity.
They may go against that.
So you know, for example, mtor,m-tor, mammalian tarvia
rapamycin.
It's a gene and MTOR is a genethat is associated with anabolic

(38:05):
growth and so, like, when youeat protein, when you, when
growth hormone kicks in, youhave a twice a day peak,
especially just after midnight,growth hormone surges.
Those stimulate MTOR.
So we know that inhibition ofM-Tor is what actually promotes
longevity in animal studies, andso those kind of go obviously

(38:27):
in opposite directions.
And so there's this, this, thisbalance that we have to have
between how do we optimizeourself today while still also
looking that we can live to be90 and not be like 90, like our
grandparents were 90, but 90,like feeling like we do right
now, and that's what I dobelieve is possible.
But there's a really finebalance there and a lot of guys

(38:52):
are so focused on.
You know these bodybuilders,for example.
You see a lot of them you knowdrop dead at age 50.
And you can now understand theconcept.
You can understand why thatit's kind of a double at sword.

So is there a secret balance point?
Where is that balance point?

Great question.
So there is.
It's different for everyone,but there are ways that we can
actually measure that.
So we have several differentclocks that we can measure
biologic aging clocks that wecan look at the rate of aging,
and what I mean by that is notchronologically, you know, 365
days or a year older, we'retalking that we actually measure

(39:36):
biologic aging processes.
There are several tests outthere now we can measure how
fast or slow your body is agingas an indicator of if what we're
doing is actually working ornot, and everyone's different.

Interesting.
So I guess it probably goeswithout saying that the earlier
somebody starts to be mindfuland aware of this stuff, the
greater the impact it's going tohave on longevity.

Yeah, I think, without question.
We know that chronicinflammation, blood sugar
regulation, cardiovascularhealth, hormone optimization all
these things affect longevity,and we do believe that the area
under the curve matters, meaningthat the duration of which
you're having issues therematter.
And so, yes, I do believe thatthe earlier you identify those

(40:24):
challenges and those blind spots, we call them, then the better
off you're going to be.

Got it.
So paint me a picture.
I'm going to go back a coupleof minutes here.
You said most men don't reallyknow how good they can feel.
How is it possible?
How good can you feel For theman who's listening, who's
thinking oh, I think my life'sfine, I have a decent.
What could be better?

(40:52):
What's the optimal?

And I asked this question a lot when I first
meet clients what is your, why,what's important to you and
what are your goals and whatdoes success look like?
And all these kind of forwardcasting kind of questions.
To me, it means that you feelyour absolute best.
Your mind is clear and focusedand sharp, your crystal clear

(41:20):
clarity.
You have I like to use the wordsunparalleled purpose and power
and productivity.
Where you are confident, whereyou are driven, where you feel
alive, you feel like a man, youhave a strong sex drive, which I

(41:42):
believe is part of being a man,and if you're missing that,
that's a problem.
I believe that you have energyto last you throughout the day
and that you don't hit a walland that you have passion in
your life and you have healthyrelationships and you're active

(42:06):
and you're balanced in terms ofthe time that you spend at work
versus with your family, versuswith hobbies, versus fitness, et
cetera.
To me, that's what it's allabout.
And you talk about living yourbest life, and that's different
for everybody, obviously, butit's optimizing your I like to
say optimizing your mind andbody to function at the highest

(42:27):
level.

Totally.
Yeah, thanks for going intothat.
It answers another questionthat I had, which is what are
some metrics?
What should men be experiencingin terms of health?

And I heard motivation.

I heard drive, I heard passion as a sort of
markers of being a healthy man.
You also mentioned the strongsex drive piece and I'm guessing
you mean beyond 30s and 40s,but even in those ages you said
if that's missing then that'ssort of a problem.
Can you say a little bit moreabout that?

Any guy should have healthy, normal sex drive,
and that goes for any age, andoften older men have a declining
libido or sex drive becausetheir hormones are declining,
and so I view that as anindicator, as a subjective
assessment or metric that we canuse to gauge that.
And so when your hormones areoptimized, yes, you should still

(43:25):
be having sex drive and sexualactivity.

Yeah.
So let's say a guy came intoyou and he said I've been really
feeling low sex drive.
My wife and I have beentogether for a long time and I
just don't feel aroused anymoreor I can't get it up.
Would you be quick to prescribeViagra or Cialis or something
like that, or would you want todo a deeper dive into everything

(43:50):
we've talked about?

Yeah, definitely a deeper dive there.
And look, when you're in along-term relationship, of
course it's going to becomeroutine.
You're with the same partnerfor decades, I get it.
And that comes down to in thatrelationship, what can you do to
spice it up?
What can you do to the variedup?
What can you do to make itexciting again?

(44:12):
And it's about communicationwith your partner what your
needs are, what your desires are, and that may be something that
you haven't had a conversationabout.
And then it's testing tounderstand what are the
underlying hormone issues thatmay be applied.
Maybe it's cortisol, as youbrought up A lot of times.
It's related to that.
It may be related tomicronutrient issues.
Toxins.
Gut health can directly affectthis.

(44:33):
Nutrition can directly affectus, Alcohol can affect us.
So a lot of underlying things,Taylor, that I think need to be
addressed first and once you'vedone all that.
And sometimes a little dose ofagar or sialis in addition can
also just give a little nicekickstart to sensitivity and
performance as well.
But that's never the standalonesolution, though.

(44:55):
I like to think of that as aband-aid.

Got it Okay, cool, and so, yeah, use a
band-aid sometimes, but, if I'mhearing you correctly, try not
to make a lifestyle of relyingon the band-aid.

Correct.
Yeah, it's a sign of anunderlying issue.
Whatever that may be, yeah.

Got it Interesting, cool.
So yeah, I'm thinking of someother examples of times when
guys aren't in long-termrelationships and they're still
experiencing that.
But when I know these people,I'm like, oh yeah, there are
other psychological things goingon that you could take a pill
for and it might mask things,but it's not going to solve the

(45:36):
underlying things happening.
Right, exactly.
So you talked about longevity,you talked about aging a little
bit, and it seems like you'repretty on the forefront of
what's happening in the men'smedicine space in the world.
Is there anything that's reallyinteresting or exciting to you,
that's coming out, that's newor that you're seeing on the

(45:56):
horizon, or any sort of advancesthat you're like, wow, it's
cool and that is going to changethe game, or there's already
something here like that?
Maybe those are two differentquestions.

It's here.
It's just not being adoptedmuch yet, and that's really I
like to call it, a data-drivenapproach.
And so what I mean by that isthat there are tools that we can
use to measure things right now, today, that could be having an
impact on the things we'retalking about when it comes to
energy, cognitive function, bodycomposition, sex, things like

(46:26):
CGM.
So continuous glucose mod, orCGM, is a way that you can track
blood sugar, and this data iscritically important because
fluctuations in your blood sugaron a day-to-day basis can
dramatically affect yourmetabolism, your energy, your
ability to burn fat and so on.
So if your blood sugar ischronically elevated, you'll

(46:46):
never burn fat.
You're storing fat, not burningit.
I don't care how much you'reworking out, you're constantly
going to be storing fat.
And so, with a simple littlesensor that you can put on your
arm for those of you looking outon video, it's a little, you
know, half-dollar-sized sensorthat's about maybe a quarter of
an inch thick, that goes on yourarm.
It has a little in the middleof it.

(47:07):
It has a little sensor thatgoes under the skin and when you
apply it, you don't even feelit.
It's a tiny little sensor andit's measuring your blood sugar
24-7.
And you can wear this devicethe ones that we use last for
two weeks at a time there are acouple of different companies
out there that make these, butthe ones that we use last for
two weeks some of them last aweek, but the ones I used last
two weeks and it connects viaBluetooth to an app on your

(47:29):
phone and you can real-time,24-7, track your blood sugar,
and so imagine that you havethis tool that now allows you to
understand how food isaffecting your blood sugar
real-time and understanding whatfoods may be great for you and
what foods may be terrible foryou.
So I'll give you an example.
I would have steel cut organicoats and berries for breakfast

(47:53):
in the morning.
Sounds like a pretty goodbreakfast, right?
Not a protein, not a protein.
Okay, this was years ago and Iwas like, yeah, I'm doing fine,
y'all protein.
Later Wrong, because my bloodsugar spiked over 200 for a
couple hours, which is bad.
Typically, you want it under140 or less, and if you eat it
may go a little higher than that, but you want to keep it as low
as possible, and what I foundwas I was eating way too much

(48:17):
carbs like that without protein,that has a disastrous effect on
blood sugar.
When I would simply put proteinfirst and that could be eggs,
if they fit for me based ongenetics and testing, et cetera,
it could be Greek yogurt, itcould be a protein smoothie,
anything protein first Before Ieat those exact same foods, if

(48:39):
they fit my macro calendar, mymacro schedule my blood sugar
wouldn't spike at all by simplyputting protein first.
There's a great picture I liketo show of eating a pear how
your blood sugar may spike to180, 200 depending on the
individual, but if you have ascoop of almond butter first,
negligible effect.

Really, that's interesting.

Fascinating right.
I would eat white rice.
Blood sugar would go throughthe roof for over an hour, hour
and a half, If I had salmon andBrussels sprouts first and had
the same portion of white rice.
Negligible effect on bloodsugar.
So by understanding theselittle tweaks and nuances in my

(49:21):
diet, it changed everything.
It allowed me to understand howdo I eat to control blood sugar
.
It helped me understand also tosee how poor sleep crushes your
blood sugar because it raisescortisol which is mobilizing
glucose for that tiger that'snot coming.

(49:45):
And so, understanding that Ihate to belabor the point here
on CGM, but it's one example ofhow we can use a tool, tech, to
understand physiology.
We can measure stress.
We can actually directlymeasure stress through a metric
called Hary variability or HRV.
So HRV is simply the variationin your heartbeat from one beat

(50:09):
to the next and you think, well,my heart beats 70 or 80, or
what do you mean?
Well, yeah, it is.
However, it actually varieswith every single beat.
So it may be 70.01 and then goto 69.98 and it may vary by
microseconds with each heartbeatand that variation is actually

(50:31):
a direct indicator of our body'sstress.
It's the balance between oursympathetic and parasympathetic
nervous systems that arereflected in that Hary
variability.
The higher the variability, thehigher the variation in your
heart rate shows that you havedynamic ability to adapt to the
environment as it's happeningreal time, fast, and that's a
sign of a nice parasympatheticrested system.

(50:53):
And so high heart variability isgood.
Low heart variability isgenerally bad Okay, Although you
never want big fluctuations andso you can measure this real
time.
So we use a device and I'lllower my camera for a second.
It goes just right here, justunder your chest, and right here
under the xyfoid process, whichis your rib cage.
Here you can put the sensor andevery morning I do this, my

(51:16):
clients do this.
Six AM, wake up and for threeminutes, two and a half minutes,
I'll measure my HRV and fromone day to the next.
Now I can see real time changesin my heart variability and if
it's varied, I can understandwhy, and I could see real time
the effects of the work that I'mdoing to help lower quarters
all in lower stress.

Yeah, I could see how, having real time
metrics to watch what's actuallyhappening in the body, I could
see how that could be reallyuseful.
Like I have a fit bit whichdoes not anything nearly as
advanced as that, but it's beenjust a cool reminder to just see
oh, have you got your heartrate up today?
No, like it's time to get outand move your ass, just like
something there on my system tohelp me remember.

(51:59):
Oh yeah, don't just sit on yourass today.
So that's awesome and that'sreally interesting, and I'm
guessing a million guys aren'tgoing to go out and immediately
start doing that, like in yourideal world.
If you could do like Dr Tracy'sfantasy world for a second,
what would you prescribe societyIf you could prescribe like

(52:21):
three things for all men to domore of or less of?

That's, I would say and this may sound a little
corny, cheesy, but living withintention.
You know, we all know what todo.
We know generally yeah, you'resupposed to eat clean, you're
supposed to exercise, you'resupposed to sleep, mitigate
stress and I can see it in guys'eyes sometimes yeah, yeah, yeah

(52:50):
, but give me the good stuff,give me the.
I want the testosterone, I wantthe peptides, give me the fun
stuff.
But when you're living withintention, what do I mean by
that?
That means that you're focusedon your why, that you have a
burning desire.
Keywords there from NapoleonHill's book Think and Grow Rich.
When you have a burning desireto achieve something.
You will stop at no end toachieve that, and whatever your

(53:14):
why is for me, as my kids be thebest dad I can be, that burning
desire carries me through tomake the right decisions.
Whatever else we may talk aboutit's I'm now focused and I'm
dedicated.
I'm committed to living withintention and doing the right
things.
I think it starts with that andeverything else kind of goes
downhill from there.
But first is that the secondone I would come back to again

(53:37):
sleep, and most guys will notappreciate the value of sleep
and how important it is.
For you know, think about itthis way when you exercise,
you're not building muscle,right, you're not building.
When you exercise, you're notbuilt.
In fact, you're freaking,tearing down muscle.
When you exercise, right,you're lifting weights, you're
tearing down muscle so that what?

(53:59):
So that you can build it backup against stronger.
When, when you're sleepingthat's the key point here is
anabolic repair, recovery,muscle build, et cetera, happens
when you're sleeping.
Growth hormone peaks.
Just have to admit that whenyou're sleeping, and so I can't
emphasize enough how importantit is to be intentional about

(54:19):
your sleep and make sure you'regetting at least seven and a
half hours of sleep at nightSchedule it.
I got to be up at six,therefore 10 o'clock I got to be
in bed.
Yeah, like like it's a dealbreaker.
There's no non-negotiable,there's nothing that's going to
change that.
And when you're clear like that, it becomes much easier to kind
of stay focused Totally.

I mean, I just a personal anecdote, for if
you're listening to this andyou're thinking, yeah, yeah,
yeah, sleep, I'll sleep better,et cetera, I've been on this
personal journey this year ofoptimizing my health in a few
different ways and I decided,after hearing enough people say
this, I was like you know what?
I fuck it.
I've got to figure this sleepthing out to get to improve my
sleep, because it's something Ihaven't had.
I haven't, guys, had greatsleep in years.

(54:59):
So I've in the process ofinvesting like 1500 bucks in a
sleep therapy program.
It's cognitive behavioraltherapy and it's.
It's working for me.
It's working really well.
So I'm just sharing that as anexample of, if you're a listener
, like I'm taking action youknow I'm.
I decided this is doesn't needto just live in the hypothetical
realms anymore.
Like and, and it's so far haspaid off to.

(55:20):
The guys in my men's group havealso done the same program and
I've had great results.
And I'm sure there's plenty ofother programs that are out
there and I'm trying toadvertise this.
I'm not going to share it'sjust a local therapist who does
it, but like it's, it's changingme after being in it for five
weeks and it's, yeah, I'm stokedabout it.
That's awesome.

Yeah, kudos to you, man, congratulations.
Thank you, I love it.

So that was your number two.
What's your number?

That's number two, yeah, and the third one I
would be is watch what you eat.
And I know this sounds simple,but watch what you eat, and
watch to the point that you'reactually tracking it, you're
actually measuring it.
And so by this I mean use atool.
Again, there's tech at ourdisposal here.
You can use my fitness pals Agreat one.

(56:03):
You can use chronometer.
I love I use with my clients,and you can get a free version
and simply watch what you eat,enter in every single thing you
eat for a day, do it for threedays straight and look at your
caloric intake and look at themacronutrient ratios of what
you're eating, and most guyswill be shocked to see how

(56:23):
little protein they're eating,how much carbs they're eating
and how much they're eatingoverall.
And so just watch what you eat,literally, and you'd be shocked
to see some changes you canmake right there.
Yeah.

And none of those first three involved heavy
weightlifting, that's right,that's right, which is pretty
wild, you know.
Just to reflect on it for amoment, I grew up eating cold
sugary cereal and milk.
You know like half percent orwhatever.
It was like non-organic,non-grass-fed milk.
Growing up, I'm like man, whatwould you know?

(56:59):
Here I am now.
Today is great, but like whatwould life have been like if I
had eaten some eggs in themorning in high school?
Like I certainly would not havefallen asleep every day Like
holy shit.
Why was that even a thought ofas a good idea?
You know?

Yeah.

Just side note.

We didn't know back then.
Yeah, we were really crisp andthe fruity pebbles and yeah, I
was with you, man Popped hearts.
We didn't know any better.

Yeah, cookies and milk for breakfast yeah, All
right.
Is there any last piece andwe're getting to here to the end
of our interview time any lastpiece that feels important to
share that you haven't shared,or something that you want to
leave men with like a hopefulnote, like society's fucked
testosterone levels are dropping, but hey, you can also
experience thriving life?
It's kind of what I'm hearingyou say.

That's right.
It's too late to turn thecorner.
Get tested.
You know I call.
Find your blind spots.
Identify what's holding youback, what may be holding you
back, without even realizing it,below the surface.
It may be hormones, it may bemicro nutrients, it may be
inflammation, gut health.
Get tested, and you could dothat through.
You know we have testingavailable to a bunch of other
companies out there that offertesting.

(58:06):
Get your labs checked, seewhere you are and find those
blind spots and just start fromthere.

Got it.
So it sounds like you'drecommend, if a guy is feeling
unmotivated or kind of lowenergy, low sex drive, go out
and get a testosterone test orget something that looks at more
than just testosterone.

Yeah, I think any guy over 35 with a heartbeat
needs to get tested.
There's a lot of tests that Ifind valuable as really just
baseline testing, and you know,when I first started this, I got
tested and I didn't even knowhow bad I felt.
I was like yeah, yeah, I'm alittle off, but I'm not that bad
.
So we are in general, we as menare poor judges of how far off

(58:45):
we may be, and so just gettested and you'll be shocked.

So I'm like your life improved.

Post testing based on all the things that you
did For sure.

Cool.
Well, so I'll put in the shownotes again that link to my
YouTube video if you want tohear a little bit more of my
journey with this stuff and thenumbers and everything, and I
want to make a follow up videoin a little while.
And, Tracy, are you open to anemail with just some questions
for me for the follow up video?

Cool, awesome.

And say somebody wants to find your work or work
with you, how can they find you?

Oh, thanks so much.
So.
Website GapinInstitutecom.
And we do have a gift for thelisteners.
I have my high performancehealth handbook.
It's 15 strategies and tacticsthat anyone can use today to
have more energy, lose weight,burn fat, build muscle, have
better sex.
And that's just text.
The word health H-E-A-L-T-Htext.
The word health, the two, six,seven, eight, six.

(59:36):
Again, that's two, six, seven,eight, six.
The word health Awesome.

Sweet.
Wow, thank you so much, reallyinteresting conversation Giving
me a lot to think about, and Iappreciate your time and
appreciate the work you're doingin the world.
And if you listener or watch onYouTube, have any questions or
thoughts, leave a comment onYouTube is the best place to do
it and or reach out to Dr Gapin.
And, yeah, I hope you all havea beautiful rest of your day and
I'll see you next time.

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Episode Transcript

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Testosterone & Male Hormone Optimization with Dr. Tracy Gapin

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