June 10, 2025 • 27 mins
What makes some dogs able to handle anything life throws at them while others crumble under pressure? The answer lies in resilience – that magical quality that transforms anxious, reactive dogs into confident companions who can accompany you anywhere.
Lauren Langman and special guest Amanda dive deep into how to build rock-solid resilience in dogs of all ages. They share personal stories of their most bomb-proof dogs – from Tokyo the unflappable Border Collie who could sleep through chaos to Salty the adventurous Labrador who sailed boats and rode gondolas without a care in the world. These weren't just lucky genetic accidents but the result of deliberate, thoughtful training and lifestyle choices.
The conversation unpacks the fascinating "stress bucket" concept – a model for understanding how dogs process and manage stressors. You'll discover the five critical components that build resilience: optimism, thinking in arousal, arousal control, calmness, and disengagement. Each component can be developed through specific games and management strategies that transform how your dog perceives and responds to the world around them.
Perhaps most eye-opening is the discussion of "rehearsal" – how what we allow our dogs to practice becomes their default behavior. Whether it's a Border Collie working sheep, a spaniel flushing birds, or a terrier hunting vermin – understanding your training goals before allowing certain behaviors to be rehearsed can make all the difference in creating the companion you want. The hosts emphasize that resilience training isn't just for puppies. Even rescue dogs and older canines can develop these skills through patient, consistent work.
Ready to create a dog who can truly share your adventures? This episode provides the roadmap to an enriched life for both you and your canine companion. As Amanda beautifully summarizes: "Resilience leads to an enriched life for your dog."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
So we're talking resilience.
(00:30):
We're talking resilience forpuppies, resilience for adult
dogs, resilience all round, andI know that this is always going
to be a good thing for dogs.
I'm joined by the wonderfulAmanda today.
Amanda, what are we thinking?
Where are we going?
Where are we heading withresilience?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Resilience is like the most critical foundation for
any dog.
I've had the great fortune ofhaving what I regard as the most
resilient dog in the world,right Salty dog, my Labrador
Retriever, and this is a dog whoI could literally take anywhere
.
He was a sailor, he was atraveler, he was he.
He went up and down gondolasLike this dog was unbelievable.
(01:09):
He could have been a servicedog, he he was like bomb proof.
I have a fantastic photographout there somewhere of my boat
which had been pulled out.
It's sitting there on the hardon the ground being worked on,
with a ladder at the back end, agreat, huge travel-ish lift
which is moved I used to movelike really huge boats and he's
(01:31):
sitting there in his crate, fastasleep, upside down.
I mean, if that's notresilience, I don't know what is
.
So, um, as you know, I do umvolunteer work with uh, with the
uh the Response Team, and Ihelp to train their team on
working with dogs specifically,and so for me, disaster
preparedness is a massive thing,and that's a massive topic that
(01:53):
we can talk about later.
But at the core of this is howdo we build a resilient dog?
And I mean, you have someamazingly resilient dogs.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And for me, thinking about, about resilience,
listening to you there, I mean,tokyo was a salty dog for me.
I could take him anywhere andhe would just like collapse and
sleep.
And you might be thinking, heyboy, we're at a dog show, like
come on.
Or you'd be like we're in theoffice and he just was like
therapy on legs, like I wouldwatch him and I'd be like
(02:24):
mesmerized by his ability tojust flop on his back and sleep
anywhere and he just had themost resilient temperament to so
many things, like dog growlingat him.
I remember staying in a.
I love staying in these things.
It's part of my adventuring,like dreams, like these little
huts where you're like againstlots of other little huts but
you can't really see them, likeyurts and huts and things.
(02:44):
And I remember staying in thislittle hut, like tiny little hut
, and he was always a pleasureto take in anywhere with you
because he was alwaysappropriate.
And I think that's theimportant thing.
It's not that it's appropriate,resilience as well, like it's
done so appropriately in so manydifferent ways, like you watch
and it's just so appropriate.
And he, this dog, came flyingfrom nowhere and hit the glass
(03:07):
and I remember him just like heshot up and he just went back to
sleep again.
Perfect, wow, what the helljust happened.
Perfect, yeah, fuck you, youmoron, okay, I'm going back to
sleep.
And it was like why did youmake me for that?
And I love appropriateresilience, I really love
appropriate like it was justreally appropriate.
(03:27):
Like he he was, everythingabout him was like alert,
something's going to get wronghere.
Okay, no, just some crazy assterrier that's just not behaving
in the way I was expecting andit was just brilliant how he
just went again probably myterrier, because I've had the
advantage of having a reallyresilient dog and having a dog
who's not resilient.
And when you do both, you reallydo understand the extremes
(03:49):
right, Like you understand howdifferent it is.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Exactly.
And, of course, now I'm buildingthe spaniel and he's you know,
he's got some like he's aworking cocker spaniel.
That's the very definition ofinsanity, right?
So going through this processof building him up to be that
resilient dog, it's been abrilliant opportunity for me to
really, really dive down andtake a look at those basic
fundamental skills that we wantto get into our dogs as early as
(04:13):
possible.
I mean, this is ideal forpuppies, like really important
for puppies.
But even if you have an olderdog, like a rescue dog, these
can still be put into them, wecan still train them and again
we can say we've trained them orwe've played games, and playing
the games shifts our attitude,which makes the whole thing fun.
(04:35):
So it's really important andhelpful for people to maintain
that really good, positiveattitude whenever you're
training, because resilience isbased on a positive emotion, and
so when we build it that way,as soon as our dogs make
decisions, we want that done ina way that triggers that
(04:58):
positive, relaxed attitude likeTokyo had.
And so the foundation of allthis is what we call bucket work
right the stress bucket andGames Club has an excellent
description of all of this.
You can find all of these gamesin the amazing Games Club and
you know there's many differentapproaches that you can take
(05:19):
within that.
The beautiful thing about gamesis there's more than one game
to build a skill.
And so when we take a look atthe stress bucket and just a
quick, quick overview of whatthe stress bucket is every dog
has a bucket.
The stress bucket is used as amodel to describe how dogs deal
with stress as it comes intotheir lives.
You have a bucket of a certainsize.
(05:40):
That size is determined by yourdog's ability to think in
arousal.
What goes into that bucket isbased on your dog's perception
of what's going on around themand what stresses them, so
that's based on optimism.
Now, every bucket has a hole,so it drains slowly, and that's
their ability to arousal up andarousal down, so they can get
(06:02):
their energy high and they canbring that energy down in a
graduated manner, kind of like adimmer switch.
And then, of course, how do youempty the bucket?
Calmness, and so we all knowthat if we've had a stressful
event, the best thing, the bestsolution, is for us to have a
hot bath, take a nap, dosomething that's calming for us,
and that's really a foundation.
(06:25):
Calming skills sounds socomplicated.
How do you train your dog tocalm down?
Well, again, in Games Clubthere's so many games that will
help us to develop that skill.
The basic one, the foundation ofit all, is boundary games.
Boundary games teaches our dogsa safe place to go, where they
(06:47):
can decompress, and safe iscritical.
This has to be guarded.
So no kids get in there, noother dogs get in there.
Your dog has a place where theycan let it all down, let their
hair down and relax, right.
And so with each of theseconcepts, with the optimism,
thinking and arousal, arousal up, arousal down and calm, come a
(07:12):
set of games.
Now there's one more conceptwhich is really, really critical
here and Tokyo obviously had itin spades and that is the
ability to disengage, and that'srelated to optimism in many
ways.
So our dogs will see somethinglike that dog that comes
smacking at them, but then theycan sort of go not so important
(07:33):
and then settle back down again.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And I was thinking when I was thinking about
disengagement.
The other thing that I thinkcomes in massively here is is
rehearsal.
Oh yes, rehearsal is one of thethings I realized with Tokyo
and of all of my dogs I think Imean Skittles similarly like.
(07:58):
She's very good, but becauseshe's very busy, spaniel fast
she doesn't have his lollipycolliness, so sometimes she
attracts dogs accidentally eventhough she's not really trying
to engage them, but her bodymovement is just fast, so they
get.
They're interested in her,which I prefer they weren't, but
I think she would prefer theyweren't.
(08:18):
But they are interested in herbecause she's busy.
But with him I think that he'dhad.
If he'd been exposed a lot as ayoung dog to lots of other dogs
, I think he would have beenlike the village flirt exposed a
lot as a young dog to lots ofother dogs.
I think he would have been likethe village flirt.
I think he would have been allover everyone rolling on his
back and engaging with everyoneand struggling to leave because
he was so soppy.
Yeah, I actually feel likerehearsal was also really
(08:39):
important and impactful for himbecause he never really learned
to become that character, so hischaracter was like cool hand,
luke.
I always think of him like he'dalways be there doing his job,
diligently, getting on with it,but he was never trying to get
involved in like the gossip orthe.
He was always able to justcarry on doing his job
effectively and andprofessionally very professional
(09:01):
.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He'd never got in those like funny little
conversations at the side, or hewasn't that dog no, and you are
right, 100% like rehearsal ismassive, and that's one of those
really important key thingsthat gets forgotten about in the
dog training world is you cantrain your dog all of these
things to do, but if they'restill running out and chasing
birds or, you know, barking atthe dog next door, you're not
(09:25):
going to make a lot of progress,lot of progress.
Now here's an interesting thingfor you.
I have a bird dog, you know,working carcass spaniel, and
he's been trained for gundogwork, so I want him to chase
birds.
So that makes for a reallyinteresting thing, because when
we are creative, we can actuallyutilize those things as a
(09:46):
reward system.
Now, if I had a dog that I didnot want to do gun dog work with
, I would not be allowing thatto be rehearsed.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I think that's such a big thing.
So I'm going to say the samewith sheep dogs.
If I wasn't going to allow Nellto work sheep, I don't want to
switch the light on, and onceyou switch the light on, that
light ain't switching off right.
Like you can't say you used towork sheep and now you don't.
Now will always be a sheep dog,she will always be a sheep dog.
So when I took her on as anadult dog, I knew that I would
(10:16):
have to meet those needs ofthose sheep on her.
Like she's the package, likeshe doesn't come without sheep
and I personally don't feel it'sfair to her to own her without
working her on sheep, becauseI'm missing part of her life.
And at the same time, when Iget my next border collie puppy,
I will not teach them to worksheep unless I intend for them
to be a sheepdog.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I think that's really important and and this is one
of the big mistakes that weoften make like um, we got
Murphy the terrier as vermincontrol because of where we
lived.
We needed someone to get thesquirrels, the rats and the mice
out from underneath the houseand he was brilliant.
But then we moved to suburbiaand, guess what?
He's a dog without a job.
So there happens to be aninteresting sport out there
(10:56):
called barn hunt, and so webecame North Island barn hunt
and he did really well in it.
But you know, again, comingback to resilience, you know we
need to think about what ourgoals are with this dog in terms
of what we allow them torehearse.
I mean again.
You know brilliant comment.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
What our goals are and then align it with what we
allow them to rehearse, becauseI think so many people allow
them to rehearse everything andthen retract and go oh my God,
my goals and my alignment arewrong, like I've allowed them to
rehearse the wrong things.
They've done it so late.
And when you think about and Iknow we've got to get back to
(11:38):
track of where we are, but whenyou think about, I think it's
really interesting.
Often people come to me withtheir agility dog but their
agility dog's more botheredabout playing with other their
other dogs or, um, doingsomething that they've rehearsed
a long time, and then theybring them to do agility and
expect them to just suddenly,like switch a light on but
they've built such a strongrelationship with other dogs or
having movement or doing otherthings.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Actually doing agility isn't really on their
agenda and I think that's reallyinteresting and that's one of
the biggest problems with a lotof the puppy classes where they
end up having, you know, all thepuppies playing together in a
pile.
You know we could have a wholediscussion on its own on
rehearsal, and I think we should.
I mean, let's do that Likerehearsal and breeds, because
there's a huge relationship withthat.
(12:18):
So, with Tokyo, what would yousay were the number one things
that you did to help build thatresilience in him?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I think resilience in him Very, very, very much was
relationship, so advocated forhim at every level.
So didn't ever let him losetrust in any situation.
So again comes back torehearsal.
I think the biggest games thatI played were often confidence
(12:49):
and noise related games, knowingthat he was a border collie and
I didn't think that he was aparticularly sensitive border
collie.
And then as he went throughadolescence he was more
sensitive and when he camethrough adolescence he was
amazing.
Like he was so bomb-proof andyet going into adolescence I was
like my Lord, you're quite thebaby.
(13:10):
Like he was really at pointslike a marshmallow would be how
I describe him.
Like he'd be hard to like getoff the ground like he was.
He was sort of gooey and yet hewas just such a fantastic dog
to work with resilience, uh, ashe, as he grew up.
But I think, yeah, noise games,noise box, knock him over.
Um, any level of DMT game, lotsof games with saucepans and
(13:33):
cupboards and loads of cardboardchaos and, as my good friend
Dave, or our good friend Davewould say, concrete chaos.
I did a lot of lifestyling withTokyo and doing life with him.
So whatever I did, I tried toinclude him where appropriate,
but at an appropriate level.
So huge amounts of scatterfeeding.
He wasn't a very foodie dog forthe first probably eight weeks
(13:56):
of his life and very quickly hebecame very foodie because that
is how he earned his food.
So it's a ball eight weeks toreally get on board, but within
eight weeks he was really onboard and he went from like this
floppy puppy to this like cool,like funky adult who was really
really just cool.
(14:17):
I can't describe anything butcool.
What I loved most about him ishe didn't take offense easily
and yet he emotionally got mostsituations Like he read the dogs
that didn't need him.
He read the dogs that maybe didneed him.
Like he was very, veryemotionally intelligent as a dog
.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So let me ask you two questions.
One is and this is a reallycommon one I find out there out
there in sort of puppy classland, letting him make his own
decisions.
At what point did you let himstart to make his own decisions?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I had him on a line as a pup, like a puppy line from
the absolute dog store, thethin one and so I used to try
wherever possible to drop hislead and see what his choices
were.
And because he wasn't a spaniel, he was a collie, so he's a
little bit, I find I found him alittle bit slower than the
spaniels.
I actually found him quitefrustrating as a puppy because
(15:13):
I'd be like gosh, you're slowlike and he wasn't, he was just
slow compared to like a skittle,like skittles, headbutted you
giving you a nose bleed and twoblack eyes before you even
thought about training her.
Like she's so quick and in yourface, um, you haven't got your
food out, you haven't got yourbag ready, and she's barking and
backing up from you and likelet's go, let's go, let's go,
lady.
Uh, whereas he was always alittle bit steadier.
(15:36):
But the interesting thing hewas he was never steady in
training.
Once you asked him to doanything explosive, he was very
explosive.
But yeah, I think, I think Iallowed him, where I possibly
could, to be, off lead a lot,but I also gave him huge
opportunity for reinforcement.
So I would say I started to seehim making the correct
decisions and then gave him moreto make, and that was probably
(15:58):
around six months, but with thecaveat that I didn't allow him
to rehearse the wrong thing.
So one thing that he did, forexample, is he growled quite
often at my dad.
I think my dad was often quiteloud and quite a big presence
and quite a big guy, and or atleast he was at first.
With Tokyo, my dad droppedweight quite quickly as he got
(16:19):
more poorly and a bit older.
But when Tokyo really firstknew my dad, he was quite a big
guy and Tokyo would growl at him.
So rather than Tokyo having tobe in the position where he was
going to growl at him, I wouldput Tokyo away.
When my dad came in, my dadwould be sat at a seat and I'd
give him a cup of tea orwhatever you're going to give
him normally a cup of tea and abiscuit, and he'd hover and and
(16:40):
then I'd let Tokyo in so thatTokyo saw him already stationary
rather than him approachingTokyo, and that then always
worked.
So again, a level of like howyou're going to allow them to
rehearse that situation and alevel of giving them an
opportunity to be resilient whenthat person's stationary rather
than that person walking intotheir situation.
Those would be the same.
(17:00):
I saw him maybe not resilientor as in not confident probably.
Uh, so he wasn't necessarilyconfident when a new person
would walk in on him, but hereally was.
By the time he was a year andthis was interesting because in
the past I'd had a dog that wasreactive to people and poppy and
um and dogs, but she got worsewith exposure, whereas tokyo I
(17:24):
set up the exposure to be betterand he got with the exposure
yeah, and that's that's thedifference between sensitization
and desensitization.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
and that's one of those examples of the right
setup.
And you know antecedents ifyou're into applied behavioral
analysis or you know doing toomuch, so going overboard, and
that's why it's so importantthat we be very aware of our
dog's behaviors and those littlenuances, you know that little
(17:52):
ear flick or that little squintof the eye, that little ear
flick or that little squint ofthe eye.
You mentioned lifestyling andI'm going to ask you about that.
But I just want to quickly say,with lifestyling, lifestyling
is one of those things which isthe little bit, little bit,
little bit in the day to daylife.
And this is the amazing exampleof Salty versus Murphy.
Now, salty was my 100% resilientLabrador retriever.
(18:14):
Came with me everywhere when Iwas working at the university.
I'd smuggle him in, he'd sleepunder my desk until the janitor
caught us, but he would goeverywhere and everything was
positive.
Number one thing was he hadsolid crates and he could calm
down.
Now Murphy.
On the other hand, jack RussellTerrier mix three quarters Jack
(18:35):
Russell Terrier.
Now Murphy.
On the other hand, jack RussellTerrier mix three quarters Jack
Russell Terrier.
I think the rest is Dash Hound,but anyways, sensitive dog got
sensitized.
Totally the opposite.
I tried to bring him everywherebut I was not as aware of when
he was getting stressed as I waswith salty dog, just by the
condition of life, and that'swhere you can see things go
sideways, because he became apessimistic, very dog dog,
(18:58):
reactive dog.
So lifestyling to me is thatlittle bit that you do every day
, but with the awareness of yourdog's stress level, how their
bucket is filled, and managementof the situation.
What would you say in terms oflifestyling?
What is lifestyling for you?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I was talking to Linda, whoI know you get on really well
with and I think is a fantastictrainer.
I feel very grateful to haveher in my life and she's got a
new poodle puppy.
Oh my god, really funny as well.
He's called Bobble or Bob, andso I said to her I hope he's
coming with you everywhere.
(19:37):
And she was like, absolutely,and he is, but what she's not
doing is putting him out withlike a group of dogs and
expecting him to fend forhimself, but what she is doing
is taking him with her and hecan hear the other dogs from the
other side of the car and she'sgot the radio playing and he's
getting on with it.
And I think there's a lot ofthat for me, that they are maybe
the other side of bars or theother side of the car, or sat in
(19:58):
the front seat or with the carstationary, of course, or they
are watching at a distance orthey are, say, I'm going to.
I'll give you a great example.
I was recording an audio bookand so what I did was I took my
young dog with me, popped her inthe next to the recording
(20:20):
studio room and then I went andrecorded next door.
I knew that she'd be safe there.
I knew there were no other dogs, no other people, only the
people that we were recordingwith.
Nothing was going to go wrongfor her.
But she's kind of doing lifeLike that is what our life is.
Our life is going from recordingstudio to recording studio, or
our life is going fromcompetition to competition,
whereas there are some peoplewho won't take their dog with
(20:41):
them because they're only apuppy, so they'll let them stay
in the warm, so they're just apuppy actually.
No, this is your adult dog in ayear.
Let's get them used to thislifestyle now.
So me like taking the puppywith me to a competition, but
not necessarily pulling them outand taking them all around the
rings, but taking them with me,getting them out for a wee break
, putting them back in again,taking them out again, putting
them back in again.
(21:01):
So actually they'reexperiencing what their
lifestyle is going to be beforeit's fully occupied, but also
not allowing it to go wrong toomuch either.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And this is absolutely critical.
So you know, this morning again, no-transcript.
(21:42):
The whole disaster preparednessthing is often people don't
want to leave their dogs in carsor they don't want to create
them for very long.
Harley will create for fourhours, no problem.
When I drove down to Oregonlast year it was a 10 hour drive
and so he was crated, let outfor a wee, crated again.
Not a peep out of him, and whenhe was down there he was
(22:03):
fantastic.
It's all that building it up.
So we must not allow ourselvesto be worried about what other
people think.
We need to have that goal, thatpowerful.
Why on, why do we have this dog?
How do we want to build thisdog?
And if you're not too sure, goback to the beginning of this
podcast, listen to the stressbucket.
(22:24):
Because, regardless of what youwant to do, you want to build
those five skills.
You want to build optimism,calm thinking and arousal
arousal up, arousal down anddisengagement, because those
five concepts are what are goingto build that rock solid dog
that you can take anywhere withyou in life.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And for me, whilst it can take a little while to get
with this program and geteverything on board or even to
start a dog, what I really lovewith this, Amanda and I don't
know if you found this too thispays dividends later on.
This is like compoundinginterest.
This is like over and over andover.
It's like an investment in therest of your life with this dog,
(23:08):
and what you allow them torehearse and what you build in
these stages just comes back onyou again and again and again,
in such a beautiful way.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I'm going to give you an example that I'm living
right now.
I've got two dogs.
I have one who has very littleresilience.
If I go away, I have to eitherhire someone to stay at the
house or I found a kennel I knowa lot of people don't like
kennels but a kennel that hedoes well in but I can't take
him with me.
He can't come with meeverywhere because he stresses
too easily.
I can't take him with me.
He can't come with meeverywhere because he stresses
too easily.
Harley, on the other hand, cango anywhere with me.
(23:40):
He's solid and in fact, inOctober, we're actually going
out to the interior to chasesome birds around, and, shall we
say, an undisciplined way,because when you do gun dog work
, especially if you're doingtesting, which is what we do do
it's very formal and you have tohave complete control of your
dog.
In this scenario, it'sbasically letting the dogs be
(24:02):
themselves, and so he's going toget to go around and flush
birds and we're going to be in atotally different environment.
It's going to be something verydifferent for him, and so I
need to build him up now.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
It's so much fun.
You're excited for youradventure.
I can feel your excitement.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Your adventure is so exciting and I'm so excited for
him though, because you know, Ioriginally, as you know, when I
got him because I thank you verymuch for helping to organize
that whole thing um, you know, Ithought you know I'd do agility
and I discovered I'm the onewho can't do agility because I
my knees are not so greatanymore and my background is
largely obedience.
(24:37):
Anyways, and to top things off,I'm not a competitor, and I
found this out way back when,when I used to train horses, I
loved training them.
I did not like competing.
Same thing when I was doingobedience trialing.
So, you know, we found a nichethat we love and I discovered
that he had a real knack for thewhole gundog thing when I went
out spontaneously with a realknack for the whole gundog thing
, when I went out spontaneouslywith a group of people who were
(24:59):
trying to form a spaniel grouphere on the island of Vancouver,
ireland, and I watched him andI'm going, wow, he doesn't need
me, like he already knew what todo and so that's his thing yeah
, I'm guessing that I love aboutall of this is that resilience
and all of these skills thatyou've taught him enable him to
have a better life and enablehim to have a life where he can
(25:22):
go to all of these places andcan do all of these things.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And I suppose it's a lovely way to end this podcast.
Guys teach resilience.
Listen to Amanda, listen to theGames Club.
Head over to the Games Club.
If you haven't already, go getyourself a membership.
It is the best space you can be.
I know that it's going to helpit, right well with resilience.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I want everyone to remember if you have a resilient
dog, your dog and you have anenriched life and it's so true.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
It's true at every level, because you are going to
allow your dog more freedom.
The more resilient they are,the more you're able to work
with them effectively in thisspace.
So let's leave it on that.
You know what that's gorgeous,amanda?
Say it once more.
The enriched life.
Tell us once more the enrichedlife.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Resilience leads to an enriched life for your dog.
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
So we're talking resilience.
(00:30):
We're talking resilience forpuppies, resilience for adult
dogs, resilience all round, andI know that this is always going
to be a good thing for dogs.
I'm joined by the wonderfulAmanda today.
Amanda, what are we thinking?
Where are we going?
Where are we heading withresilience?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Resilience is like the most critical foundation for
any dog.
I've had the great fortune ofhaving what I regard as the most
resilient dog in the world,right Salty dog, my Labrador
Retriever, and this is a dog whoI could literally take anywhere
.
He was a sailor, he was atraveler, he was he.
He went up and down gondolasLike this dog was unbelievable.
(01:09):
He could have been a servicedog, he he was like bomb proof.
I have a fantastic photographout there somewhere of my boat
which had been pulled out.
It's sitting there on the hardon the ground being worked on,
with a ladder at the back end, agreat, huge travel-ish lift
which is moved I used to movelike really huge boats and he's
(01:31):
sitting there in his crate, fastasleep, upside down.
I mean, if that's notresilience, I don't know what is
.
So, um, as you know, I do umvolunteer work with uh, with the
uh the Response Team, and Ihelp to train their team on
working with dogs specifically,and so for me, disaster
preparedness is a massive thing,and that's a massive topic that
(01:53):
we can talk about later.
But at the core of this is howdo we build a resilient dog?
And I mean, you have someamazingly resilient dogs.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And for me, thinking about, about resilience,
listening to you there, I mean,tokyo was a salty dog for me.
I could take him anywhere andhe would just like collapse and
sleep.
And you might be thinking, heyboy, we're at a dog show, like
come on.
Or you'd be like we're in theoffice and he just was like
therapy on legs, like I wouldwatch him and I'd be like
(02:24):
mesmerized by his ability tojust flop on his back and sleep
anywhere and he just had themost resilient temperament to so
many things, like dog growlingat him.
I remember staying in a.
I love staying in these things.
It's part of my adventuring,like dreams, like these little
huts where you're like againstlots of other little huts but
you can't really see them, likeyurts and huts and things.
(02:44):
And I remember staying in thislittle hut, like tiny little hut
, and he was always a pleasureto take in anywhere with you
because he was alwaysappropriate.
And I think that's theimportant thing.
It's not that it's appropriate,resilience as well, like it's
done so appropriately in so manydifferent ways, like you watch
and it's just so appropriate.
And he, this dog, came flyingfrom nowhere and hit the glass
(03:07):
and I remember him just like heshot up and he just went back to
sleep again.
Perfect, wow, what the helljust happened.
Perfect, yeah, fuck you, youmoron, okay, I'm going back to
sleep.
And it was like why did youmake me for that?
And I love appropriateresilience, I really love
appropriate like it was justreally appropriate.
(03:27):
Like he he was, everythingabout him was like alert,
something's going to get wronghere.
Okay, no, just some crazy assterrier that's just not behaving
in the way I was expecting andit was just brilliant how he
just went again probably myterrier, because I've had the
advantage of having a reallyresilient dog and having a dog
who's not resilient.
And when you do both, you reallydo understand the extremes
(03:49):
right, Like you understand howdifferent it is.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Exactly.
And, of course, now I'm buildingthe spaniel and he's you know,
he's got some like he's aworking cocker spaniel.
That's the very definition ofinsanity, right?
So going through this processof building him up to be that
resilient dog, it's been abrilliant opportunity for me to
really, really dive down andtake a look at those basic
fundamental skills that we wantto get into our dogs as early as
(04:13):
possible.
I mean, this is ideal forpuppies, like really important
for puppies.
But even if you have an olderdog, like a rescue dog, these
can still be put into them, wecan still train them and again
we can say we've trained them orwe've played games, and playing
the games shifts our attitude,which makes the whole thing fun.
(04:35):
So it's really important andhelpful for people to maintain
that really good, positiveattitude whenever you're
training, because resilience isbased on a positive emotion, and
so when we build it that way,as soon as our dogs make
decisions, we want that done ina way that triggers that
(04:58):
positive, relaxed attitude likeTokyo had.
And so the foundation of allthis is what we call bucket work
right the stress bucket andGames Club has an excellent
description of all of this.
You can find all of these gamesin the amazing Games Club and
you know there's many differentapproaches that you can take
(05:19):
within that.
The beautiful thing about gamesis there's more than one game
to build a skill.
And so when we take a look atthe stress bucket and just a
quick, quick overview of whatthe stress bucket is every dog
has a bucket.
The stress bucket is used as amodel to describe how dogs deal
with stress as it comes intotheir lives.
You have a bucket of a certainsize.
(05:40):
That size is determined by yourdog's ability to think in
arousal.
What goes into that bucket isbased on your dog's perception
of what's going on around themand what stresses them, so
that's based on optimism.
Now, every bucket has a hole,so it drains slowly, and that's
their ability to arousal up andarousal down, so they can get
(06:02):
their energy high and they canbring that energy down in a
graduated manner, kind of like adimmer switch.
And then, of course, how do youempty the bucket?
Calmness, and so we all knowthat if we've had a stressful
event, the best thing, the bestsolution, is for us to have a
hot bath, take a nap, dosomething that's calming for us,
and that's really a foundation.
(06:25):
Calming skills sounds socomplicated.
How do you train your dog tocalm down?
Well, again, in Games Clubthere's so many games that will
help us to develop that skill.
The basic one, the foundation ofit all, is boundary games.
Boundary games teaches our dogsa safe place to go, where they
(06:47):
can decompress, and safe iscritical.
This has to be guarded.
So no kids get in there, noother dogs get in there.
Your dog has a place where theycan let it all down, let their
hair down and relax, right.
And so with each of theseconcepts, with the optimism,
thinking and arousal, arousal up, arousal down and calm, come a
(07:12):
set of games.
Now there's one more conceptwhich is really, really critical
here and Tokyo obviously had itin spades and that is the
ability to disengage, and that'srelated to optimism in many
ways.
So our dogs will see somethinglike that dog that comes
smacking at them, but then theycan sort of go not so important
(07:33):
and then settle back down again.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And I was thinking when I was thinking about
disengagement.
The other thing that I thinkcomes in massively here is is
rehearsal.
Oh yes, rehearsal is one of thethings I realized with Tokyo
and of all of my dogs I think Imean Skittles similarly like.
(07:58):
She's very good, but becauseshe's very busy, spaniel fast
she doesn't have his lollipycolliness, so sometimes she
attracts dogs accidentally eventhough she's not really trying
to engage them, but her bodymovement is just fast, so they
get.
They're interested in her,which I prefer they weren't, but
I think she would prefer theyweren't.
(08:18):
But they are interested in herbecause she's busy.
But with him I think that he'dhad.
If he'd been exposed a lot as ayoung dog to lots of other dogs
, I think he would have beenlike the village flirt exposed a
lot as a young dog to lots ofother dogs.
I think he would have been likethe village flirt.
I think he would have been allover everyone rolling on his
back and engaging with everyoneand struggling to leave because
he was so soppy.
Yeah, I actually feel likerehearsal was also really
(08:39):
important and impactful for himbecause he never really learned
to become that character, so hischaracter was like cool hand,
luke.
I always think of him like he'dalways be there doing his job,
diligently, getting on with it,but he was never trying to get
involved in like the gossip orthe.
He was always able to justcarry on doing his job
effectively and andprofessionally very professional
(09:01):
.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He'd never got in those like funny little
conversations at the side, or hewasn't that dog no, and you are
right, 100% like rehearsal ismassive, and that's one of those
really important key thingsthat gets forgotten about in the
dog training world is you cantrain your dog all of these
things to do, but if they'restill running out and chasing
birds or, you know, barking atthe dog next door, you're not
(09:25):
going to make a lot of progress,lot of progress.
Now here's an interesting thingfor you.
I have a bird dog, you know,working carcass spaniel, and
he's been trained for gundogwork, so I want him to chase
birds.
So that makes for a reallyinteresting thing, because when
we are creative, we can actuallyutilize those things as a
(09:46):
reward system.
Now, if I had a dog that I didnot want to do gun dog work with
, I would not be allowing thatto be rehearsed.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I think that's such a big thing.
So I'm going to say the samewith sheep dogs.
If I wasn't going to allow Nellto work sheep, I don't want to
switch the light on, and onceyou switch the light on, that
light ain't switching off right.
Like you can't say you used towork sheep and now you don't.
Now will always be a sheep dog,she will always be a sheep dog.
So when I took her on as anadult dog, I knew that I would
(10:16):
have to meet those needs ofthose sheep on her.
Like she's the package, likeshe doesn't come without sheep
and I personally don't feel it'sfair to her to own her without
working her on sheep, becauseI'm missing part of her life.
And at the same time, when Iget my next border collie puppy,
I will not teach them to worksheep unless I intend for them
to be a sheepdog.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I think that's really important and and this is one
of the big mistakes that weoften make like um, we got
Murphy the terrier as vermincontrol because of where we
lived.
We needed someone to get thesquirrels, the rats and the mice
out from underneath the houseand he was brilliant.
But then we moved to suburbiaand, guess what?
He's a dog without a job.
So there happens to be aninteresting sport out there
(10:56):
called barn hunt, and so webecame North Island barn hunt
and he did really well in it.
But you know, again, comingback to resilience, you know we
need to think about what ourgoals are with this dog in terms
of what we allow them torehearse.
I mean again.
You know brilliant comment.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
What our goals are and then align it with what we
allow them to rehearse, becauseI think so many people allow
them to rehearse everything andthen retract and go oh my God,
my goals and my alignment arewrong, like I've allowed them to
rehearse the wrong things.
They've done it so late.
And when you think about and Iknow we've got to get back to
(11:38):
track of where we are, but whenyou think about, I think it's
really interesting.
Often people come to me withtheir agility dog but their
agility dog's more botheredabout playing with other their
other dogs or, um, doingsomething that they've rehearsed
a long time, and then theybring them to do agility and
expect them to just suddenly,like switch a light on but
they've built such a strongrelationship with other dogs or
having movement or doing otherthings.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Actually doing agility isn't really on their
agenda and I think that's reallyinteresting and that's one of
the biggest problems with a lotof the puppy classes where they
end up having, you know, all thepuppies playing together in a
pile.
You know we could have a wholediscussion on its own on
rehearsal, and I think we should.
I mean, let's do that Likerehearsal and breeds, because
there's a huge relationship withthat.
(12:18):
So, with Tokyo, what would yousay were the number one things
that you did to help build thatresilience in him?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I think resilience in him Very, very, very much was
relationship, so advocated forhim at every level.
So didn't ever let him losetrust in any situation.
So again comes back torehearsal.
I think the biggest games thatI played were often confidence
(12:49):
and noise related games, knowingthat he was a border collie and
I didn't think that he was aparticularly sensitive border
collie.
And then as he went throughadolescence he was more
sensitive and when he camethrough adolescence he was
amazing.
Like he was so bomb-proof andyet going into adolescence I was
like my Lord, you're quite thebaby.
(13:10):
Like he was really at pointslike a marshmallow would be how
I describe him.
Like he'd be hard to like getoff the ground like he was.
He was sort of gooey and yet hewas just such a fantastic dog
to work with resilience, uh, ashe, as he grew up.
But I think, yeah, noise games,noise box, knock him over.
Um, any level of DMT game, lotsof games with saucepans and
(13:33):
cupboards and loads of cardboardchaos and, as my good friend
Dave, or our good friend Davewould say, concrete chaos.
I did a lot of lifestyling withTokyo and doing life with him.
So whatever I did, I tried toinclude him where appropriate,
but at an appropriate level.
So huge amounts of scatterfeeding.
He wasn't a very foodie dog forthe first probably eight weeks
(13:56):
of his life and very quickly hebecame very foodie because that
is how he earned his food.
So it's a ball eight weeks toreally get on board, but within
eight weeks he was really onboard and he went from like this
floppy puppy to this like cool,like funky adult who was really
really just cool.
(14:17):
I can't describe anything butcool.
What I loved most about him ishe didn't take offense easily
and yet he emotionally got mostsituations Like he read the dogs
that didn't need him.
He read the dogs that maybe didneed him.
Like he was very, veryemotionally intelligent as a dog
.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So let me ask you two questions.
One is and this is a reallycommon one I find out there out
there in sort of puppy classland, letting him make his own
decisions.
At what point did you let himstart to make his own decisions?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I had him on a line as a pup, like a puppy line from
the absolute dog store, thethin one and so I used to try
wherever possible to drop hislead and see what his choices
were.
And because he wasn't a spaniel, he was a collie, so he's a
little bit, I find I found him alittle bit slower than the
spaniels.
I actually found him quitefrustrating as a puppy because
(15:13):
I'd be like gosh, you're slowlike and he wasn't, he was just
slow compared to like a skittle,like skittles, headbutted you
giving you a nose bleed and twoblack eyes before you even
thought about training her.
Like she's so quick and in yourface, um, you haven't got your
food out, you haven't got yourbag ready, and she's barking and
backing up from you and likelet's go, let's go, let's go,
lady.
Uh, whereas he was always alittle bit steadier.
(15:36):
But the interesting thing hewas he was never steady in
training.
Once you asked him to doanything explosive, he was very
explosive.
But yeah, I think, I think Iallowed him, where I possibly
could, to be, off lead a lot,but I also gave him huge
opportunity for reinforcement.
So I would say I started to seehim making the correct
decisions and then gave him moreto make, and that was probably
(15:58):
around six months, but with thecaveat that I didn't allow him
to rehearse the wrong thing.
So one thing that he did, forexample, is he growled quite
often at my dad.
I think my dad was often quiteloud and quite a big presence
and quite a big guy, and or atleast he was at first.
With Tokyo, my dad droppedweight quite quickly as he got
(16:19):
more poorly and a bit older.
But when Tokyo really firstknew my dad, he was quite a big
guy and Tokyo would growl at him.
So rather than Tokyo having tobe in the position where he was
going to growl at him, I wouldput Tokyo away.
When my dad came in, my dadwould be sat at a seat and I'd
give him a cup of tea orwhatever you're going to give
him normally a cup of tea and abiscuit, and he'd hover and and
(16:40):
then I'd let Tokyo in so thatTokyo saw him already stationary
rather than him approachingTokyo, and that then always
worked.
So again, a level of like howyou're going to allow them to
rehearse that situation and alevel of giving them an
opportunity to be resilient whenthat person's stationary rather
than that person walking intotheir situation.
Those would be the same.
(17:00):
I saw him maybe not resilientor as in not confident probably.
Uh, so he wasn't necessarilyconfident when a new person
would walk in on him, but hereally was.
By the time he was a year andthis was interesting because in
the past I'd had a dog that wasreactive to people and poppy and
um and dogs, but she got worsewith exposure, whereas tokyo I
(17:24):
set up the exposure to be betterand he got with the exposure
yeah, and that's that's thedifference between sensitization
and desensitization.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
and that's one of those examples of the right
setup.
And you know antecedents ifyou're into applied behavioral
analysis or you know doing toomuch, so going overboard, and
that's why it's so importantthat we be very aware of our
dog's behaviors and those littlenuances, you know that little
(17:52):
ear flick or that little squintof the eye, that little ear
flick or that little squint ofthe eye.
You mentioned lifestyling andI'm going to ask you about that.
But I just want to quickly say,with lifestyling, lifestyling
is one of those things which isthe little bit, little bit,
little bit in the day to daylife.
And this is the amazing exampleof Salty versus Murphy.
Now, salty was my 100% resilientLabrador retriever.
(18:14):
Came with me everywhere when Iwas working at the university.
I'd smuggle him in, he'd sleepunder my desk until the janitor
caught us, but he would goeverywhere and everything was
positive.
Number one thing was he hadsolid crates and he could calm
down.
Now Murphy.
On the other hand, jack RussellTerrier mix three quarters Jack
(18:35):
Russell Terrier.
Now Murphy.
On the other hand, jack RussellTerrier mix three quarters Jack
Russell Terrier.
I think the rest is Dash Hound,but anyways, sensitive dog got
sensitized.
Totally the opposite.
I tried to bring him everywherebut I was not as aware of when
he was getting stressed as I waswith salty dog, just by the
condition of life, and that'swhere you can see things go
sideways, because he became apessimistic, very dog dog,
(18:58):
reactive dog.
So lifestyling to me is thatlittle bit that you do every day
, but with the awareness of yourdog's stress level, how their
bucket is filled, and managementof the situation.
What would you say in terms oflifestyling?
What is lifestyling for you?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I was talking to Linda, whoI know you get on really well
with and I think is a fantastictrainer.
I feel very grateful to haveher in my life and she's got a
new poodle puppy.
Oh my god, really funny as well.
He's called Bobble or Bob, andso I said to her I hope he's
coming with you everywhere.
(19:37):
And she was like, absolutely,and he is, but what she's not
doing is putting him out withlike a group of dogs and
expecting him to fend forhimself, but what she is doing
is taking him with her and hecan hear the other dogs from the
other side of the car and she'sgot the radio playing and he's
getting on with it.
And I think there's a lot ofthat for me, that they are maybe
the other side of bars or theother side of the car, or sat in
(19:58):
the front seat or with the carstationary, of course, or they
are watching at a distance orthey are, say, I'm going to.
I'll give you a great example.
I was recording an audio bookand so what I did was I took my
young dog with me, popped her inthe next to the recording
(20:20):
studio room and then I went andrecorded next door.
I knew that she'd be safe there.
I knew there were no other dogs, no other people, only the
people that we were recordingwith.
Nothing was going to go wrongfor her.
But she's kind of doing lifeLike that is what our life is.
Our life is going from recordingstudio to recording studio, or
our life is going fromcompetition to competition,
whereas there are some peoplewho won't take their dog with
(20:41):
them because they're only apuppy, so they'll let them stay
in the warm, so they're just apuppy actually.
No, this is your adult dog in ayear.
Let's get them used to thislifestyle now.
So me like taking the puppywith me to a competition, but
not necessarily pulling them outand taking them all around the
rings, but taking them with me,getting them out for a wee break
, putting them back in again,taking them out again, putting
them back in again.
(21:01):
So actually they'reexperiencing what their
lifestyle is going to be beforeit's fully occupied, but also
not allowing it to go wrong toomuch either.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And this is absolutely critical.
So you know, this morning again, no-transcript.
(21:42):
The whole disaster preparednessthing is often people don't
want to leave their dogs in carsor they don't want to create
them for very long.
Harley will create for fourhours, no problem.
When I drove down to Oregonlast year it was a 10 hour drive
and so he was crated, let outfor a wee, crated again.
Not a peep out of him, and whenhe was down there he was
(22:03):
fantastic.
It's all that building it up.
So we must not allow ourselvesto be worried about what other
people think.
We need to have that goal, thatpowerful.
Why on, why do we have this dog?
How do we want to build thisdog?
And if you're not too sure, goback to the beginning of this
podcast, listen to the stressbucket.
(22:24):
Because, regardless of what youwant to do, you want to build
those five skills.
You want to build optimism,calm thinking and arousal
arousal up, arousal down anddisengagement, because those
five concepts are what are goingto build that rock solid dog
that you can take anywhere withyou in life.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And for me, whilst it can take a little while to get
with this program and geteverything on board or even to
start a dog, what I really lovewith this, Amanda and I don't
know if you found this too thispays dividends later on.
This is like compoundinginterest.
This is like over and over andover.
It's like an investment in therest of your life with this dog,
(23:08):
and what you allow them torehearse and what you build in
these stages just comes back onyou again and again and again,
in such a beautiful way.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I'm going to give you an example that I'm living
right now.
I've got two dogs.
I have one who has very littleresilience.
If I go away, I have to eitherhire someone to stay at the
house or I found a kennel I knowa lot of people don't like
kennels but a kennel that hedoes well in but I can't take
him with me.
He can't come with meeverywhere because he stresses
too easily.
I can't take him with me.
He can't come with meeverywhere because he stresses
too easily.
Harley, on the other hand, cango anywhere with me.
(23:40):
He's solid and in fact, inOctober, we're actually going
out to the interior to chasesome birds around, and, shall we
say, an undisciplined way,because when you do gun dog work
, especially if you're doingtesting, which is what we do do
it's very formal and you have tohave complete control of your
dog.
In this scenario, it'sbasically letting the dogs be
(24:02):
themselves, and so he's going toget to go around and flush
birds and we're going to be in atotally different environment.
It's going to be something verydifferent for him, and so I
need to build him up now.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
It's so much fun.
You're excited for youradventure.
I can feel your excitement.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Your adventure is so exciting and I'm so excited for
him though, because you know, Ioriginally, as you know, when I
got him because I thank you verymuch for helping to organize
that whole thing um, you know, Ithought you know I'd do agility
and I discovered I'm the onewho can't do agility because I
my knees are not so greatanymore and my background is
largely obedience.
(24:37):
Anyways, and to top things off,I'm not a competitor, and I
found this out way back when,when I used to train horses, I
loved training them.
I did not like competing.
Same thing when I was doingobedience trialing.
So, you know, we found a nichethat we love and I discovered
that he had a real knack for thewhole gundog thing when I went
out spontaneously with a realknack for the whole gundog thing
, when I went out spontaneouslywith a group of people who were
(24:59):
trying to form a spaniel grouphere on the island of Vancouver,
ireland, and I watched him andI'm going, wow, he doesn't need
me, like he already knew what todo and so that's his thing yeah
, I'm guessing that I love aboutall of this is that resilience
and all of these skills thatyou've taught him enable him to
have a better life and enablehim to have a life where he can
(25:22):
go to all of these places andcan do all of these things.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And I suppose it's a lovely way to end this podcast.
Guys teach resilience.
Listen to Amanda, listen to theGames Club.
Head over to the Games Club.
If you haven't already, go getyourself a membership.
It is the best space you can be.
I know that it's going to helpit, right well with resilience.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I want everyone to remember if you have a resilient
dog, your dog and you have anenriched life and it's so true.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
It's true at every level, because you are going to
allow your dog more freedom.
The more resilient they are,the more you're able to work
with them effectively in thisspace.
So let's leave it on that.
You know what that's gorgeous,amanda?
Say it once more.
The enriched life.
Tell us once more the enrichedlife.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Resilience leads to an enriched life for your dog.
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