September 30, 2025 • 19 mins
The hardest part of “socialising your puppy” isn’t getting out the door—it’s knowing when to say no. We unpack the difference between ticking boxes and shaping feelings, contrasting Rupert, a sensitive dog overexposed to chaotic greetings and traditional classes, with Tokyo, a dog raised on low-drama, consistently positive experiences. The takeaway is simple and powerful: quality beats quantity. A handful of safe, well-managed exposures paired with concept games builds neutrality, optimism, and handler focus far better than a hundred random hellos in busy parks.
We talk through the pivotal moments that set behaviour in stone: off-lead sprints to unknown dogs, crowded church halls where proximity is mistaken for progress, and the one-event learning that can turn curiosity into reactivity. Then we pivot to solutions that actually transfer to the real world. You’ll hear how games like Middle and Feet-on-Toes create portable safety boundaries, letting you feel arousal shifts through contact and move your dog with calm precision. We break down what a truly safe class setup looks like—space, non-interaction, and clear lanes—and why scent work can quietly drain stress without social pressure.
Owner mindset threads through everything. Dogs read our tension, so we offer simple ways to stack the deck in your favour: pick routes with visibility, walk with trusted teams, use long lines as seatbelts, and replace chance encounters with planned, appropriate choices—or none at all. If you’ve ever felt pressured by a vet’s tick-sheet or the “socialise more” chorus at the park, this conversation gives you the language and the tools to protect your dog and build the skills that matter.
Ready to trade overexposure for smart training? Grab 10 Days to Stop Reactivity and jump into the Games Club for a library of practical games and support. If this helped, follow, rate, and share the episode with a friend who needs a calmer walk tomorrow.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Text in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers, and it's my
mission to help owners becometheir dog's top priority.
In each episode, you'll discoverhow to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
So a long time ago, I rememberhaving conversations about
(00:33):
socialization, and I think weshould tell our stories about
our dogs and how theirsocialization journey was
different.
So tell us about Rupert'supbringing in terms of meeting
other dogs and actually how hefeels about dogs today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
Okay.
So when I first got Rupert, Iwas given all the traditional
advice (00:51):
take him to puppy class, meet lots of dogs, socialise
him, take him to new places, doall of those things, check off
the list of things.
He was actually quite a nervouspuppy.
I wasn't massively savvy, but itwas really obvious from the day
I picked him up.
He was hiding at the back of thepen.
He didn't really want to bepicked up.
(01:13):
We seem to have had apersonality transplant from the
time before when I'd met him.
He was he was not a confidentdog.
So putting him in lots ofsituations was probably the
worst thing I could do for him,but that's not what I knew at
the time.
So when he was old enough, wedid go to puppy classes, and
they were kind of probably quitetraditional puppy classes in a
church hall.
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
And I imagine that was after having
multi-vaccinations, going tovisit a vet who was possibly a
bad experience for him, and thenpossibly trying to put the dog
on a harness in a lead anddidn't really like that
experience either, and maybedrag him around a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
Yep.
Yep.
And then it was the kind ofclass where you would learn to
walk in circles around a hallwith lots of dogs in a big
circle and recalls two dogs headto head down the middle of a
church hall.
And it was a lovely class, andwe did kind of little bits of
agility foundations and littlebits of tricks, and it's where
he first learned to ring a bellwith his paw and all the things
(02:03):
he still loves doing.
But a lot of what he learnedthere was dogs are quite
overwhelming, people are quiteoverwhelming, environments like
this are a bit too much.
Dogs might look at me funny, Imight need to bark back at them.
I'm not quite sure I like dogsor people or going out at all.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Now there's a lot there, right, to unpack.
And I'm thinking of my gorgeousdog Tokyo and his early days.
He was born at my house.
He was raised by ourselves, andhe was here with his mum, Brave.
And he stayed with Brave as longas he could, so I didn't really
take him away from Brave somuch.
Like right through till I don'tknow, he was not a puppy, like
(02:45):
six months really.
He was always hanging out withBrave.
He was always with her.
She's a very robust dog, very,very kind dog, very, very
easygoing with dogs, but alsoknows what she'll tolerate and
what she won't.
He never really got told off byanother dog or didn't really
realise that dogs would bark orshow their teeth or bite or
anything.
He didn't say boo to a dog.
He only met my own dogs and heonly met the appropriate dogs
(03:08):
like Venture, he never metbecause she doesn't like other
dogs, so he wasn't allowed tomeet her, and she wasn't allowed
to meet him for a while.
And I remember taking him to adog show when he was about, I
don't know, two or three.
And the interesting thing washe'd been like a puppy through
COVID.
And I know there are a lot ofpeople out there that say, My
dog's a COVID dog, so he's likea lockdown puppy, and so he's
(03:30):
got no social skills.
And I think to myself, Tokyo wasprobably one of the most social
dogs in the sense that he wasable to handle any situation,
but he also never needed to goand investigate them.
He was just cool in his ownskin.
So if there were dogs reactingand lunging, he'd look over and
then he'd carry on walking.
Or if we were sat in the carpark, he could lie at my feet,
no lead on, and just watch whatwas happening in the world.
(03:52):
And when I say car park, I meanat the training centre,
Bowerland.
If you haven't been here, get onover, it's Devon Dogs, it's a
beautiful space to train in.
But he could sit at my legs andnot need to be involved in the
other dogs.
And the moment that I realizedhow little he'd been exposed to,
I was walking through a dog showand a dog lunged in the back of
the vehicle at him.
And he literally, like he hitthe deck, like, what the hell
(04:16):
just happened?
Like, you know, when a planejust goes right over your head
and you weren't seeing it like aI don't know, like one of those
crazy like red arrows orsomething.
Like one of those moments whereyou're like, what just happened?
He he really was so shocked thatthose things happened.
Like he didn't even know thosewords came out of their mouth,
but he was not aware of theswear words or all the things
that that dogs might say or doand think about.
(04:36):
And he was just shocked.
He was completely shocked by it.
Now, if I think back to hissocialization, did he meet a
hundred people in hats?
No.
Did he meet loads of differentage and stage and different ways
of people moving or anythinglike that?
No.
Did he meet loads of other dogs?
No.
However, did he have all goodexperiences?
Yes.
(04:57):
Did he learn through games andconcepts?
Yes.
Did he have good genetics?
Yes.
Did he have a good upbringing?
Yes.
Did he ever get sort of told offor like worried by other dogs?
No.
And I really believe there's alot to take from that because my
first dogs grew up very muchlike Rupert, who had lots and
lots of experiences, but oftenbad ones too.
(05:18):
What do you think in hindsightof how that went for you being a
first-time dog owner and youdoing your blooming best?
And I think that's the hardestbit.
I know you were doing your best.
And yet when I reflect back onmy dogs and their back
backgrounds and upbringings andeverything that came from the
beginning with them, I thinkthere's so much to unpack.
And you can see why some thingsgo wrong, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
Absolutely, yeah.
I think he learned that dogs area big deal, that dogs are
important.
When we got to walking and theadvice I was given, which may
well be right in some contexts,take him off lead as quickly as
possible.
But in this context, was takingoff lead as quickly as possible,
(05:59):
and he was bombing off the otherside of a field to interact with
lots of other dogs of lots ofdifferent ages and stages and
sizes that I didn't know, andthey're not really coming back.
So he then learned other dogsare really exciting, really
important, way more fun thanyou.
But then at some point thattipped because he had a bad
experience with another dog thatI didn't know, and now he really
(06:22):
does not like any dog, and itcould be the nicest dog, and his
immediate instinct is that dog'sprobably gonna get me, so I
probably need to do somethingabout that, and therefore I'm
going to react and tell it Idon't like it.
And that's all come fromoverexposure, not putting in
appropriate boundaries withexperiences, not safeguarding
(06:45):
his experiences, and notexposing him to too much and not
doing enough at home to skillhim up before he went into those
environments.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
Now, given that opportunity again, how might you
do things differently, or whatmight you definitely change?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Um, we would definitely not do as l as much
out and about stuff from earlyon.
He would spend a lot more timeplaying games, building skills
at home.
He would probably still meetdogs, but they would be
appropriate dogs that I knewwere appropriate for him to
interact with that weren't goingto, I don't know, end up with
it's his head in their mouth,which is one of the things that
(07:22):
happened.
He's he's just had experiencesthat were not good for him.
And he's very quick to pair, andhe's very quick to make
associations, and it's quitedifficult to unpick those with
him.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
So he he basically makes pairings really, really
fast and learns anything that'sbad very, very quickly.
It takes him a long time tolearn learn the good stuff
effectively.
Now, if we think back to umclasses and the level of of what
he did at class and the level ofappropriateness, again,
reviewing that, was he the rightdog for a training class?
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
No, but I would say no with a provide with a kind of
but because I bring into classeshere and they're perfect for him
because of the setup and becausehe's safeguarded, and because
everybody here knows uh aboutnot super nice dogs, and no dogs
interact with other dogs.
They come and they work in theirown space.
So that kind of class, yes,absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
That's great.
I well I wasn't thinking of thatanswer, so that's a really nice
one.
Nice, Karen.
Good job.
And yeah, the the big thing forme, I think probably one of the
biggest ones for him, if I thinkabout it from what you just
said, because I obviously don'tknow everything he did, and this
is a conversation that we've nothad before, was actually uh him
being allowed to run over toother dogs because those
situations are is it good, is itbad?
(08:35):
Like what's gonna actuallyhappen here because it could go
either way.
Yeah, and if he runs up to apoppy, my late naughty but nice
dog, it's gonna be bad.
If he runs up to a brave, it'sgonna be neutral.
If he runs up to a skittle, it'sgonna be zoomies.
Yeah, so you do depend on whoyou run up to, don't you?
And then if he runs up to maybe,I don't know, venture, she's
gonna scream.
She's not gonna hurt him, butshe's gonna scream, and that's
gonna make him probably want toland on her.
(08:56):
So, actually, all of thosethings they're just so out of
your control.
So the bit that's under yourcontrol or in your control is
like you said, who you walk withor how they interact or where
they interact or when theyinteract.
And if I go back to Tokyo'supbringing, he actually had very
little interaction with any newdogs, just the dogs he did
interact with, and I'm luckyenough to have my own multiple
dogs, they were all veryappropriate.
(09:18):
So he only learned appropriate.
So he didn't really know how notto say please and thank you.
He didn't really know how not tosay, How may I help you?
He didn't really know, and andwith his mum having his brave
had an accident as a as an olderdog, um, and and whilst he was
still young, he had to almostmoderate himself to work around
her.
So he almost learned thatgentleness, which I really enjoy
(09:39):
in a dog, but actually didn'tappreciate that it it needed to
be learnt, the capacity neededto be there, but it was learnt
through almost um modellinganother dog.
So that's cool as well.
And then the other thing for himis he doesn't have other dogs to
model so much, right?
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Like he can't model and copy.
No, and we were talking aboutthis the other day, weren't we?
I think if he had enoughpositive interactions with
appropriate dogs, he would learnthat they're not a threat and
they're fine.
And that doesn't mean that Iwould then put him back into
those situations of charging offsaying hi to every dog,
absolutely not, but I do thinkwe could unpick his learning.
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
Now, just thinking about this, when we think about
Rupert, if there was one thingyou wish you'd done differently,
one thing out of everything thatyou wish you'd done differently
as a youngster.
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
I do think it's letting him go and meet and
greet random dogs.
I do think that is the root of alot of his, not necessarily his,
I mean, he's got a personality,and I think he came with that
personality, and I think hewould have always potentially
had struggles with the certaincertain skills and concepts.
But I do think that that is thething that's kind of taken his
(10:47):
path where it's gone a bit.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
It's a really interesting thing.
It's just what one thing thatwent through my head then was I
wonder if Rupert had grown up ina group of like five or six or
seven or eight dogs who arefairly stable.
I think if he'd grown up in thatstable household of lots of dogs
and role models, say you grew upin a household of eight braves,
like you're gonna be prettysound on the whole, I would say.
And it just depends on, again,who you're growing up around.
Whereas actually his role modelto a degree are the dogs he met
(11:11):
and you.
Now, I think this is reallyimportant question.
When you meet other dogs or seeother dogs or know there are
other dogs in the environment,do you feel completely calm or
not?
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
No, no, and that is a problem.
It's a problem for me because itmeans I don't particularly enjoy
walking him unless I know I'm inan environment where I have a
loss of control over who we'regonna come across and what
corners are going around.
But it's a problem because ofwhat I communicate to him down
the lead.
However much I try to relax andbe chilled, I know that he knows
(11:41):
that I'm worried.
Isn't that massive?
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Isn't it massive?
And it was just one of thoseones that just ran through my
head.
I bet one of the biggeststruggles is how we respond as
owners.
And if you're listening rightnow and you're thinking, oh my
god, this is so like my dog, andwhat I'm thinking.
Well, 10 days to stopreactivity, it's available to
you right now.
It used to be 97 pounds for you,sexiness girl.
You're here, you're listening.
(12:05):
Go and get that course.
10 days to stop reactivity, ormaybe just want to learn about
all of this, more of this,because people could join our
club, right?
They could get involved.
You've got the link, you'regonna have to remember it.
You could get involved byjoining the games club.
The games club is an immensespace to be.
Recommend it, share it, makesure everybody knows about it
because it prevents things likethis ever happening in the first
(12:25):
place.
What's the link, Karen?
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
Absolute dogs.me forward slash join the club.
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
And once more, absolute dogs.me forward slash
join the club.
So if somebody was thinking, ohgod, like I really need to
socialise, socialise, socialise,socialise, over-socialise, and
then do a bit more because myvet's given me the tick sheet
and I'm not doing enough of it.
What would you say they could doinstead?
Like, might it be valuable theywere involved in something like
(12:50):
Games Club or similar?
SPEAKER_01 (12:52):
Absolutely.
I would first of all say screwup the gloom sheet because the
sheet is not useful unless it'sthe sheet in our puppy
resources, which is a kind ofalternative bingo style
socialization done right, thenotherwise screw up the sheets
because use it as firewood.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Firewood goes in the fire, pop it in the fire, it is
done.
There is no socialization ticksheet from your vet.
Your vet is gonna hear it heretoo.
Like it is not a thing, it's sonot what we do these days.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Unless you've got a really, really robust dog who
can handle it, and even then Idon't think it's what you should
do.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Even then that you're relying on the sheer
great genetics plus the factthat it can still go horribly
wrong.
Like it can go horribly wrongbecause you do not know the dogs
they're running into.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
No, and this is where Rupert's, I think I think
it's where a lot of thereactivity towards other dogs
comes from.
I let him run towards a dog thatI didn't know.
I mean, not intentionally, butit's what happened.
This was a rescue dog, firsttime out with its owner.
It was on lead, but it did notappreciate him, and all he did
(13:57):
was run up and say hi, I think,really.
But the result was, and this wasa Staffy Gross, so quite a big
dog compared to him.
He ended up with his face in itsmouth.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
And that was that was a real one-time learning
event for Rupert.
But how does his behaviourchange after that event?
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
Yeah, really, quite significantly.
He now does well.
Staffies uh just know he justhas to see one and he's not
happy.
And other dogs pretty much thesame to some or to some degree
or other, he will think it's abad deal coming his way.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Now, guys, if you're listening, we know there is a
way, we know there's a path foryou, we know there's a better
way.
If you join our games clubtoday, you get all of our 10
days to stop (14:40):
reactivity, barking, stealing, all the
things.
You get all of that.
And in addition to that, you geta library full of games.
Now, what games do you enjoywith Rupert from the Games Club?
And actually, is he easy to livewith when playing games?
He's brilliant when playinggames.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
And I think I I really will what ifs don't
really help, do they?
But if I'd have known this wayof training from the beginning,
not only would I not haveoverexposed him to all the
things which have kind of shapedhis his feelings about the
world, I would have trained himso differently, and we would
have just built such a differentfoundation.
We have a brilliant relationshipbecause we play games and
(15:17):
because we enjoy tricks, andbecause of all the things we do,
scent work is another brilliantthing for him.
He loves it.
But we would have a differentpicture.
So games, I mean, all of them,anyone, they're all good.
It depends what you want to workon.
Middle, we love, middle toes,anything where I can keep him
safe, actually.
I really like that one for that.
(15:38):
So if we're on about and I cansee that there's somebody
coming, popping him in middle,putting his feet on my toes is
brilliant because it anchorshim.
He feels safe because he'sprotected between my legs.
I can sense where he is andwhere his weight is, and if his
weight shifts and if he's likelyto back out or lunge forwards,
and I can actually move with hisfeet on my feet as well.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
And so similarly, uh KD, the same.
It's one of my favourite gamesbecause of all of the reasons
that you've just just said, andone of the biggest ones is that
I can feel the pressure.
So I know if she's mine or not.
I know if she's off, I know ifshe's about to, she might be on
my feet, but her intention iselsewhere.
Like I can feel her on her toes,or I can feel that she's like
dancing, and I can also feelwhen she gets tired.
So I can feel that she'sactually tired at the game I'm
(16:20):
playing and she needs to have abreak, and I'm and she needs to
go.
She's breaking it more and more.
It's another form of a boundary.
So, guys, if you're listening, Iabsolutely know that we can do
better by our dogs when it comesto socializing.
This is a message that needs togo worldwide.
This is a message that's goingto help dogs, it's going to help
owners, it's going to help otherdogs and other owners.
It's going to ripple effect ifwe could just get it right.
(16:42):
If we could just do that onething, which is actually just
share good information, right,Karen?
SPEAKER_01 (16:48):
Yeah, because the the flip of this or the other
side of the story, I guess, isyou don't know those dogs that
you're letting your dog run upto.
What learning they've had andwhat experiences they've had, if
everybody had learnt this, thenall of these situations would
probably be much less likely tohappen.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
And I would really love for more owners to know
what to do in these situationsand how to handle these
situations.
And I would also love to knowthat more owners felt better
equipped in terms of if a dogdoes run over to my dog or if
another dog maybe is is lunging,barking at the other end of the
street, how should I diffusethat or whether I should walk
into them or whether I shouldn'twalk into them.
(17:26):
What we're talking about isskilling owners up and getting
owners really, really, really,really, really on board so that
more people know about it.
Now, the more people that knowabout this way of training, the
more that you are going tocreate that riffle effect so
that our dogs don't run intoother dogs or that other dogs
don't run into our dogs.
So instead of complaining aboutthe neighbour's dog, or instead
of complaining about the dogthat runs up to your dog on a
(17:47):
walk, or instead of complainingabout the loose dog that really
doesn't, shouldn't be loose,shouldn't be off leash,
shouldn't be doing whatever it'sdoing, let's actually do what's
in your control.
And what's in your control is tolike it, to share it, to make
sure you share some of the freeresources, to do your part in
helping dogs worldwide.
What do you think, Karen?
SPEAKER_01 (18:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's loads of free stuffto get hold of as well, isn't
there, on the website?
There's blogs, there's there'sdownloads, there's there's ways
in if you're curious.
Absolutely, I would say you youshould be joining Games Club or
getting hold of one of thecourses.
But if you want to kind of putyour feet in the water a bit,
there's loads of ways to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
I love that.
Free resources, free blogs, freeopportunities.
Go get them, Tiger.
That was this episode of theSexy in the Squirrel podcast.
I will see you for the nextepisode.
And remember, stay sexy.
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Text in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers, and it's my
mission to help owners becometheir dog's top priority.
In each episode, you'll discoverhow to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
So a long time ago, I rememberhaving conversations about
(00:33):
socialization, and I think weshould tell our stories about
our dogs and how theirsocialization journey was
different.
So tell us about Rupert'supbringing in terms of meeting
other dogs and actually how hefeels about dogs today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
Okay.
So when I first got Rupert, Iwas given all the traditional
advice (00:51):
take him to puppy class, meet lots of dogs, socialise
him, take him to new places, doall of those things, check off
the list of things.
He was actually quite a nervouspuppy.
I wasn't massively savvy, but itwas really obvious from the day
I picked him up.
He was hiding at the back of thepen.
He didn't really want to bepicked up.
(01:13):
We seem to have had apersonality transplant from the
time before when I'd met him.
He was he was not a confidentdog.
So putting him in lots ofsituations was probably the
worst thing I could do for him,but that's not what I knew at
the time.
So when he was old enough, wedid go to puppy classes, and
they were kind of probably quitetraditional puppy classes in a
church hall.
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
And I imagine that was after having
multi-vaccinations, going tovisit a vet who was possibly a
bad experience for him, and thenpossibly trying to put the dog
on a harness in a lead anddidn't really like that
experience either, and maybedrag him around a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
Yep.
Yep.
And then it was the kind ofclass where you would learn to
walk in circles around a hallwith lots of dogs in a big
circle and recalls two dogs headto head down the middle of a
church hall.
And it was a lovely class, andwe did kind of little bits of
agility foundations and littlebits of tricks, and it's where
he first learned to ring a bellwith his paw and all the things
(02:03):
he still loves doing.
But a lot of what he learnedthere was dogs are quite
overwhelming, people are quiteoverwhelming, environments like
this are a bit too much.
Dogs might look at me funny, Imight need to bark back at them.
I'm not quite sure I like dogsor people or going out at all.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Now there's a lot there, right, to unpack.
And I'm thinking of my gorgeousdog Tokyo and his early days.
He was born at my house.
He was raised by ourselves, andhe was here with his mum, Brave.
And he stayed with Brave as longas he could, so I didn't really
take him away from Brave somuch.
Like right through till I don'tknow, he was not a puppy, like
(02:45):
six months really.
He was always hanging out withBrave.
He was always with her.
She's a very robust dog, very,very kind dog, very, very
easygoing with dogs, but alsoknows what she'll tolerate and
what she won't.
He never really got told off byanother dog or didn't really
realise that dogs would bark orshow their teeth or bite or
anything.
He didn't say boo to a dog.
He only met my own dogs and heonly met the appropriate dogs
(03:08):
like Venture, he never metbecause she doesn't like other
dogs, so he wasn't allowed tomeet her, and she wasn't allowed
to meet him for a while.
And I remember taking him to adog show when he was about, I
don't know, two or three.
And the interesting thing washe'd been like a puppy through
COVID.
And I know there are a lot ofpeople out there that say, My
dog's a COVID dog, so he's likea lockdown puppy, and so he's
(03:30):
got no social skills.
And I think to myself, Tokyo wasprobably one of the most social
dogs in the sense that he wasable to handle any situation,
but he also never needed to goand investigate them.
He was just cool in his ownskin.
So if there were dogs reactingand lunging, he'd look over and
then he'd carry on walking.
Or if we were sat in the carpark, he could lie at my feet,
no lead on, and just watch whatwas happening in the world.
(03:52):
And when I say car park, I meanat the training centre,
Bowerland.
If you haven't been here, get onover, it's Devon Dogs, it's a
beautiful space to train in.
But he could sit at my legs andnot need to be involved in the
other dogs.
And the moment that I realizedhow little he'd been exposed to,
I was walking through a dog showand a dog lunged in the back of
the vehicle at him.
And he literally, like he hitthe deck, like, what the hell
(04:16):
just happened?
Like, you know, when a planejust goes right over your head
and you weren't seeing it like aI don't know, like one of those
crazy like red arrows orsomething.
Like one of those moments whereyou're like, what just happened?
He he really was so shocked thatthose things happened.
Like he didn't even know thosewords came out of their mouth,
but he was not aware of theswear words or all the things
that that dogs might say or doand think about.
(04:36):
And he was just shocked.
He was completely shocked by it.
Now, if I think back to hissocialization, did he meet a
hundred people in hats?
No.
Did he meet loads of differentage and stage and different ways
of people moving or anythinglike that?
No.
Did he meet loads of other dogs?
No.
However, did he have all goodexperiences?
Yes.
(04:57):
Did he learn through games andconcepts?
Yes.
Did he have good genetics?
Yes.
Did he have a good upbringing?
Yes.
Did he ever get sort of told offor like worried by other dogs?
No.
And I really believe there's alot to take from that because my
first dogs grew up very muchlike Rupert, who had lots and
lots of experiences, but oftenbad ones too.
(05:18):
What do you think in hindsightof how that went for you being a
first-time dog owner and youdoing your blooming best?
And I think that's the hardestbit.
I know you were doing your best.
And yet when I reflect back onmy dogs and their back
backgrounds and upbringings andeverything that came from the
beginning with them, I thinkthere's so much to unpack.
And you can see why some thingsgo wrong, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
Absolutely, yeah.
I think he learned that dogs area big deal, that dogs are
important.
When we got to walking and theadvice I was given, which may
well be right in some contexts,take him off lead as quickly as
possible.
But in this context, was takingoff lead as quickly as possible,
(05:59):
and he was bombing off the otherside of a field to interact with
lots of other dogs of lots ofdifferent ages and stages and
sizes that I didn't know, andthey're not really coming back.
So he then learned other dogsare really exciting, really
important, way more fun thanyou.
But then at some point thattipped because he had a bad
experience with another dog thatI didn't know, and now he really
(06:22):
does not like any dog, and itcould be the nicest dog, and his
immediate instinct is that dog'sprobably gonna get me, so I
probably need to do somethingabout that, and therefore I'm
going to react and tell it Idon't like it.
And that's all come fromoverexposure, not putting in
appropriate boundaries withexperiences, not safeguarding
(06:45):
his experiences, and notexposing him to too much and not
doing enough at home to skillhim up before he went into those
environments.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
Now, given that opportunity again, how might you
do things differently, or whatmight you definitely change?
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Um, we would definitely not do as l as much
out and about stuff from earlyon.
He would spend a lot more timeplaying games, building skills
at home.
He would probably still meetdogs, but they would be
appropriate dogs that I knewwere appropriate for him to
interact with that weren't goingto, I don't know, end up with
it's his head in their mouth,which is one of the things that
(07:22):
happened.
He's he's just had experiencesthat were not good for him.
And he's very quick to pair, andhe's very quick to make
associations, and it's quitedifficult to unpick those with
him.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
So he he basically makes pairings really, really
fast and learns anything that'sbad very, very quickly.
It takes him a long time tolearn learn the good stuff
effectively.
Now, if we think back to umclasses and the level of of what
he did at class and the level ofappropriateness, again,
reviewing that, was he the rightdog for a training class?
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
No, but I would say no with a provide with a kind of
but because I bring into classeshere and they're perfect for him
because of the setup and becausehe's safeguarded, and because
everybody here knows uh aboutnot super nice dogs, and no dogs
interact with other dogs.
They come and they work in theirown space.
So that kind of class, yes,absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
That's great.
I well I wasn't thinking of thatanswer, so that's a really nice
one.
Nice, Karen.
Good job.
And yeah, the the big thing forme, I think probably one of the
biggest ones for him, if I thinkabout it from what you just
said, because I obviously don'tknow everything he did, and this
is a conversation that we've nothad before, was actually uh him
being allowed to run over toother dogs because those
situations are is it good, is itbad?
(08:35):
Like what's gonna actuallyhappen here because it could go
either way.
Yeah, and if he runs up to apoppy, my late naughty but nice
dog, it's gonna be bad.
If he runs up to a brave, it'sgonna be neutral.
If he runs up to a skittle, it'sgonna be zoomies.
Yeah, so you do depend on whoyou run up to, don't you?
And then if he runs up to maybe,I don't know, venture, she's
gonna scream.
She's not gonna hurt him, butshe's gonna scream, and that's
gonna make him probably want toland on her.
(08:56):
So, actually, all of thosethings they're just so out of
your control.
So the bit that's under yourcontrol or in your control is
like you said, who you walk withor how they interact or where
they interact or when theyinteract.
And if I go back to Tokyo'supbringing, he actually had very
little interaction with any newdogs, just the dogs he did
interact with, and I'm luckyenough to have my own multiple
dogs, they were all veryappropriate.
(09:18):
So he only learned appropriate.
So he didn't really know how notto say please and thank you.
He didn't really know how not tosay, How may I help you?
He didn't really know, and andwith his mum having his brave
had an accident as a as an olderdog, um, and and whilst he was
still young, he had to almostmoderate himself to work around
her.
So he almost learned thatgentleness, which I really enjoy
(09:39):
in a dog, but actually didn'tappreciate that it it needed to
be learnt, the capacity neededto be there, but it was learnt
through almost um modellinganother dog.
So that's cool as well.
And then the other thing for himis he doesn't have other dogs to
model so much, right?
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Like he can't model and copy.
No, and we were talking aboutthis the other day, weren't we?
I think if he had enoughpositive interactions with
appropriate dogs, he would learnthat they're not a threat and
they're fine.
And that doesn't mean that Iwould then put him back into
those situations of charging offsaying hi to every dog,
absolutely not, but I do thinkwe could unpick his learning.
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
Now, just thinking about this, when we think about
Rupert, if there was one thingyou wish you'd done differently,
one thing out of everything thatyou wish you'd done differently
as a youngster.
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
I do think it's letting him go and meet and
greet random dogs.
I do think that is the root of alot of his, not necessarily his,
I mean, he's got a personality,and I think he came with that
personality, and I think hewould have always potentially
had struggles with the certaincertain skills and concepts.
But I do think that that is thething that's kind of taken his
(10:47):
path where it's gone a bit.
SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
It's a really interesting thing.
It's just what one thing thatwent through my head then was I
wonder if Rupert had grown up ina group of like five or six or
seven or eight dogs who arefairly stable.
I think if he'd grown up in thatstable household of lots of dogs
and role models, say you grew upin a household of eight braves,
like you're gonna be prettysound on the whole, I would say.
And it just depends on, again,who you're growing up around.
Whereas actually his role modelto a degree are the dogs he met
(11:11):
and you.
Now, I think this is reallyimportant question.
When you meet other dogs or seeother dogs or know there are
other dogs in the environment,do you feel completely calm or
not?
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
No, no, and that is a problem.
It's a problem for me because itmeans I don't particularly enjoy
walking him unless I know I'm inan environment where I have a
loss of control over who we'regonna come across and what
corners are going around.
But it's a problem because ofwhat I communicate to him down
the lead.
However much I try to relax andbe chilled, I know that he knows
(11:41):
that I'm worried.
Isn't that massive?
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Isn't it massive?
And it was just one of thoseones that just ran through my
head.
I bet one of the biggeststruggles is how we respond as
owners.
And if you're listening rightnow and you're thinking, oh my
god, this is so like my dog, andwhat I'm thinking.
Well, 10 days to stopreactivity, it's available to
you right now.
It used to be 97 pounds for you,sexiness girl.
You're here, you're listening.
(12:05):
Go and get that course.
10 days to stop reactivity, ormaybe just want to learn about
all of this, more of this,because people could join our
club, right?
They could get involved.
You've got the link, you'regonna have to remember it.
You could get involved byjoining the games club.
The games club is an immensespace to be.
Recommend it, share it, makesure everybody knows about it
because it prevents things likethis ever happening in the first
(12:25):
place.
What's the link, Karen?
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
Absolute dogs.me forward slash join the club.
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
And once more, absolute dogs.me forward slash
join the club.
So if somebody was thinking, ohgod, like I really need to
socialise, socialise, socialise,socialise, over-socialise, and
then do a bit more because myvet's given me the tick sheet
and I'm not doing enough of it.
What would you say they could doinstead?
Like, might it be valuable theywere involved in something like
(12:50):
Games Club or similar?
SPEAKER_01 (12:52):
Absolutely.
I would first of all say screwup the gloom sheet because the
sheet is not useful unless it'sthe sheet in our puppy
resources, which is a kind ofalternative bingo style
socialization done right, thenotherwise screw up the sheets
because use it as firewood.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Firewood goes in the fire, pop it in the fire, it is
done.
There is no socialization ticksheet from your vet.
Your vet is gonna hear it heretoo.
Like it is not a thing, it's sonot what we do these days.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Unless you've got a really, really robust dog who
can handle it, and even then Idon't think it's what you should
do.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Even then that you're relying on the sheer
great genetics plus the factthat it can still go horribly
wrong.
Like it can go horribly wrongbecause you do not know the dogs
they're running into.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
No, and this is where Rupert's, I think I think
it's where a lot of thereactivity towards other dogs
comes from.
I let him run towards a dog thatI didn't know.
I mean, not intentionally, butit's what happened.
This was a rescue dog, firsttime out with its owner.
It was on lead, but it did notappreciate him, and all he did
(13:57):
was run up and say hi, I think,really.
But the result was, and this wasa Staffy Gross, so quite a big
dog compared to him.
He ended up with his face in itsmouth.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
And that was that was a real one-time learning
event for Rupert.
But how does his behaviourchange after that event?
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
Yeah, really, quite significantly.
He now does well.
Staffies uh just know he justhas to see one and he's not
happy.
And other dogs pretty much thesame to some or to some degree
or other, he will think it's abad deal coming his way.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Now, guys, if you're listening, we know there is a
way, we know there's a path foryou, we know there's a better
way.
If you join our games clubtoday, you get all of our 10
days to stop (14:40):
reactivity, barking, stealing, all the
things.
You get all of that.
And in addition to that, you geta library full of games.
Now, what games do you enjoywith Rupert from the Games Club?
And actually, is he easy to livewith when playing games?
He's brilliant when playinggames.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
And I think I I really will what ifs don't
really help, do they?
But if I'd have known this wayof training from the beginning,
not only would I not haveoverexposed him to all the
things which have kind of shapedhis his feelings about the
world, I would have trained himso differently, and we would
have just built such a differentfoundation.
We have a brilliant relationshipbecause we play games and
(15:17):
because we enjoy tricks, andbecause of all the things we do,
scent work is another brilliantthing for him.
He loves it.
But we would have a differentpicture.
So games, I mean, all of them,anyone, they're all good.
It depends what you want to workon.
Middle, we love, middle toes,anything where I can keep him
safe, actually.
I really like that one for that.
(15:38):
So if we're on about and I cansee that there's somebody
coming, popping him in middle,putting his feet on my toes is
brilliant because it anchorshim.
He feels safe because he'sprotected between my legs.
I can sense where he is andwhere his weight is, and if his
weight shifts and if he's likelyto back out or lunge forwards,
and I can actually move with hisfeet on my feet as well.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
And so similarly, uh KD, the same.
It's one of my favourite gamesbecause of all of the reasons
that you've just just said, andone of the biggest ones is that
I can feel the pressure.
So I know if she's mine or not.
I know if she's off, I know ifshe's about to, she might be on
my feet, but her intention iselsewhere.
Like I can feel her on her toes,or I can feel that she's like
dancing, and I can also feelwhen she gets tired.
So I can feel that she'sactually tired at the game I'm
(16:20):
playing and she needs to have abreak, and I'm and she needs to
go.
She's breaking it more and more.
It's another form of a boundary.
So, guys, if you're listening, Iabsolutely know that we can do
better by our dogs when it comesto socializing.
This is a message that needs togo worldwide.
This is a message that's goingto help dogs, it's going to help
owners, it's going to help otherdogs and other owners.
It's going to ripple effect ifwe could just get it right.
(16:42):
If we could just do that onething, which is actually just
share good information, right,Karen?
SPEAKER_01 (16:48):
Yeah, because the the flip of this or the other
side of the story, I guess, isyou don't know those dogs that
you're letting your dog run upto.
What learning they've had andwhat experiences they've had, if
everybody had learnt this, thenall of these situations would
probably be much less likely tohappen.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
And I would really love for more owners to know
what to do in these situationsand how to handle these
situations.
And I would also love to knowthat more owners felt better
equipped in terms of if a dogdoes run over to my dog or if
another dog maybe is is lunging,barking at the other end of the
street, how should I diffusethat or whether I should walk
into them or whether I shouldn'twalk into them.
(17:26):
What we're talking about isskilling owners up and getting
owners really, really, really,really, really on board so that
more people know about it.
Now, the more people that knowabout this way of training, the
more that you are going tocreate that riffle effect so
that our dogs don't run intoother dogs or that other dogs
don't run into our dogs.
So instead of complaining aboutthe neighbour's dog, or instead
of complaining about the dogthat runs up to your dog on a
(17:47):
walk, or instead of complainingabout the loose dog that really
doesn't, shouldn't be loose,shouldn't be off leash,
shouldn't be doing whatever it'sdoing, let's actually do what's
in your control.
And what's in your control is tolike it, to share it, to make
sure you share some of the freeresources, to do your part in
helping dogs worldwide.
What do you think, Karen?
SPEAKER_01 (18:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's loads of free stuffto get hold of as well, isn't
there, on the website?
There's blogs, there's there'sdownloads, there's there's ways
in if you're curious.
Absolutely, I would say you youshould be joining Games Club or
getting hold of one of thecourses.
But if you want to kind of putyour feet in the water a bit,
there's loads of ways to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
I love that.
Free resources, free blogs, freeopportunities.
Go get them, Tiger.
That was this episode of theSexy in the Squirrel podcast.
I will see you for the nextepisode.
And remember, stay sexy.
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