September 2, 2025 • 20 mins
When Karen's dog Rupert bit her father, it could have spelled disaster for family relationships and dog-sitting arrangements. Instead, it became a powerful learning opportunity that transformed their approach to managing challenging dog behavior.
The bite occurred during what should have been a simple interaction – Karen's father attempting to put Rupert's harness on while the dog was comfortably settled on the sofa. Without understanding Rupert's need for consensual handling, her father physically tried to move him, triggering a defensive response. This moment highlights how even loving family members can inadvertently create situations where dogs feel the need to communicate boundaries through their teeth.
Karen shares the practical management strategies that prevented further incidents, including keeping Rupert's harness on during family visits and teaching relatives to use food to encourage movement rather than physical manipulation. She identifies the core behavioral concepts Rupert was missing: disengagement (the ability to break focus), optimism, emotional regulation, and flexibility – all trainable skills that reduce bite risk.
The conversation delves into specific games that build these crucial skills, like Disengagement Pattern, Noise Box, and Toy Switch. Karen explains how trick training completely transforms Rupert's emotional state, building confidence and skills simultaneously. Most importantly, she emphasizes that a bite incident, while serious, doesn't need to define a dog or permanently damage relationships.
This candid discussion offers hope and practical guidance for anyone navigating the aftermath of a dog bite within their family. Through understanding, management, and targeted training, most dogs can learn more appropriate communication and families can rebuild trust and safety. If you're struggling with challenging dog behavior or recovering from a bite incident, join our supportive community where you'll find the tools and encouragement to transform your relationship with your dog.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
Oh, my goodness, my dog bit mydad.
(00:33):
You know what?
I guess you guys are listening,thinking what the hell?
And yet it happens.
It happens.
Dogs are dogs and there are byincidents, and that doesn't make
them a terrible dog and itdoesn't make your dad a terrible
person for doing the wrongthing.
Actually, sometimes thesethings happen.
Now, karen, I'm joined byRupert's mum.
Karen, this is a bigopportunity for you to really
get Rupert's story out there,also from the point of view of
(00:56):
your dad, from you, like how didit actually happen and how did
it come about?
Because when we play it back,it all feels fairly obvious and
yet in that moment it wenthorribly wrong.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
My dad had Rupert for the weekend and my parents had
Rupert for the weekend and heneeded to have his harness put
on and he was on the sofa verycomfortable, happily chilling
away, probably not reallywanting to go out for a bedtime
wee, wee and my dad moved him tophysically put the harness on.
So, whereas I know that thebest opportunity for Rupert if I
(01:31):
got, to get his harness on isto move him with some food, get
him actually moving, loosen himoff and then make that a
consensual activity, my dadwasn't quite as clued up on that
and just physically tried tomove him.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And when he went to physically move Rupert, rupert
basically said no.
So effectively he didn't giveconsent.
He was like I don't giveconsent to getting off the sofa
right now.
I quite like sitting on thesofa and I'm quite happy in this
space.
And no, I don't want to go outfor a late outside, possibly
rainy, wee, wee.
Thank you, no.
And it was his version ofsaying no, thank you.
He just didn't maybe have thethank you or the no in the
(02:07):
potentially correct sort ofspace.
Now, how might you prevent that?
Or how might we do better?
By our dog?
Or how might we prevent,prevent I suppose it's happening
to our dad and and actually,where did you go from here?
Because it's really easy for usto fall out with our family
members, it's really easy for usto lose our dog sitter, it's
really easy for us to feel veryguilty, and guilty for a long
time, on this, and these are allreally normal observations,
(02:30):
feelings, frustrations, upset,angst.
Where do you sit with that?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
now, yeah.
So I did and do feel guilty andmy parents are one of the few
people who can or will lookafter Rupert.
He's not the easiest dog tolook after.
So it was important from myrelationship with my parents'
point of view, and also fromoccasionally needing somebody to
look after Rupert point of view, that that relationship didn't
break down and they were stillhappy to have him and not
(02:57):
feeling like he was going to bedangerous or difficult.
So I guess the first thing wasexplaining to them why stillness
is not his.
He's not in a good headspace.
If he's still, he struggleswith disengagement, which is
something I know that kind ofgoes through.
All of his behavior struggles.
Disengagement or an inabilityto disengage is one of his
(03:21):
biggest struggles.
So explaining that to them andthen giving them strategies so
actually at the moment, if ifrupert goes to my parents house,
he wears his harness all thetime.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That's just the easiest for him and for them and
I think that's a great idea toshare these things with people
because that makes completesense to me.
Leave the dog in the harnessand lots of people say, oh, but
they're not comfy overnight orthey might chew it.
Well, they might, but theymight not and actually maybe
they're not as comfortableovernight but actually the whole
family and the whole dynamic ismore comfortable and we don't
have these bite incidents whichactually fundamentally don't
(03:51):
make the dog or the human feelvery good.
They're not actually good foranyone, because the dog ends up
being in the bad book of thehouse and the bad dog in the
house and the human ends upfeeling frustrated, upset,
anxious that it hurt.
They feel all the bad thingstoo.
So actually it's no good foranyone and ultimately, like you
said, it does break therelationship down.
So that's one of yourstrategies.
What other strategies have youcome up with so that actually we
(04:12):
don't have the moment of help?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
my dog's just bitten my dad so they also know now
that if they need to move him,the best way to do that is to
throw some food, and he willtypically follow it and make him
well.
Movement is really valuable forhim because once he's in that
kind of stuck state, then he ispotentially going to react if
he's not happy about something.
So getting him moving is alwaysa good strategy, whether that's
(04:34):
me or my parents or anyone elsewho's handling him, but I mean
I don't.
He doesn't eat from a bowl withme.
We've ditched the bowl.
My parents are slightly less onboard with that, so they have
an easy version of ditch the theBowl when he stays with them,
which might be puzzle feedersand snuffle mats and whatever
else.
They're not playing games withhim, but some of that food is
(04:57):
there for you need to attachRupert's lead to his harness, or
you need to move him, or youneed to distract him from
chewing my auntie's scarf, whichis another thing he's done when
he stayed with them.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
It's all about understanding him and not having
the right management in placereally, and I get it that some
dogs are easier than rupert, andI also know that actually
rupert is a little bit morecomplex and there are lots of
learnt behaviors but alsogenetics or tendencies.
So, knowing that he's got thosefrustrations and those spaces
and those early learnings andthose genetics, actually these
(05:29):
are, these are ways of lifereally for Rupert.
So you know, these are thingsthat we likely will have to do
for a little while orpotentially forever.
Now, when we're thinking aboutwhat got him into the situation
in the first place, the factthat he is even on sofas in
their house I know that'ssomething he enjoys doing and I
know that's something theyprobably enjoy having him there
as well.
But are there any boundaries orrules around sofas?
(05:49):
Probably enjoy having him thereas well, but is there are there
any boundaries or rules aroundsofas, or could there be any
boundaries or?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
rules around sofas?
There certainly could be.
I mean, he does have boundariesat their house.
He doesn't go in their bedroom,for example, and he, he just
knows well, he doesn't have theoption of going in their, their
bedroom at all, whereas in myhouse, my rules and I know how
to to kind of deal with that andthat doesn't present us with a
problem.
Yeah, he's allowed in mybedroom.
Yeah, he's not allowed in theirbedroom.
That's a definite barrier andyes, certainly we could give
(06:15):
them right.
Here's his bed, his boundary.
He goes on there.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah you're on the sofa.
Yeah, and I think this is worththinking about.
If you've got a dog, that mightbe similar to this.
I know I was working withbehavior case not that long ago
and the owner was havingstruggles with a sofa and
actually we just took the sofaoff bounds so the sofa was no
longer a part of that dog'sspace and actually the behavior
went away at the same timebecause we'd removed the access
to the sofa.
So sometimes by removing access, then actually you've you've
(06:40):
solved some of that problem orpart of that problem, because
they no longer have access to it.
Another thing you touched basedon it touched based on there
was about ditching the bowl forr rupert to stop actually any of
these bite incidents happening.
You've actually got lots offood to utilize and to use.
If you were thinking bitingspecifically or rupert and
struggling to um effectivelydisengage, let's.
(07:01):
Let's just look at the biting.
What concepts is?
Is rupert lacking when he'sgone into bites?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
well, probably quite a of them, but disengagement is
definitely one.
I mean, the opposite end ofdisengagement is engagement,
isn't it?
So he is extremely engagingwith me in a very inappropriate
way, which involves his teeth,and I think another missing
concept, optimism is definitelyone.
You're going to move me.
I don't really know why don'tlike it.
(07:29):
So that's another one.
And then I think the other kindof key one here is probably a
lack of a dimmer switch or alack of an ability to kind of
regulate his emotions, so he'llgo up very quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I'd also say flexibility.
So I don't think Rupert's thatflexible.
I think Rupert likes thingsthat Rupert's sort of way and so
they kind of go in a set order.
It's funny.
I've got a team member who'sjust started working for me and
he really loves the list andhe's like thank you so much for
a list.
And he's like really quiteinteresting.
He's like I love my list, Ireally love my list, and you can
(08:05):
really see he's very attachedto his list and I think Rupert
should really get on well withmy mum because she likes a list.
They'd get on well, wouldn'tthey?
And so I feel that there's thatregimented likes to know what's
coming, how and when, and likesfull explanations of all before
he signs up for anything, andso I think the flexibility sort
of switch is there, isn't itLike we're not that flexible,
(08:26):
and I think that that issomething also to be grown.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, and then his bucket as well.
He's got quite a small bucket,however much work I do to try
and make it bigger and to helpit empty.
So he's been put into asituation where his routine is
disrupted, I guess as much as hehas a routine For whatever
reason.
He's not in my house, he's intheir house.
I'm not there, they're there.
So that isn't actually going tofill his bucket a bit more.
(08:49):
So it's a bit of a kind ofmixed bag of missing concepts
that all play into that, I think.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So much, so much there.
Now, if we think about Rupertas a dog, who you do earn his
food and you do play games withhis food, what sort of games and
what sort of strategies?
And guys, if you're not alreadypart of Games Club and if
you're not doing some of ourlearning, please, please, please
, please, please, jump in atGames Club.
What's the link for Games Club,karen?
Have you got that link?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
AbsoluteDogsme forward slash join the club.
She's got it, she's got it.
So once more, absolutedogs,join the club.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So join the club.
Join the club with us, becausewe'd love to show you some games
but what games?
Would be some of Rupert's bestgames to go to here to try and
solve some of these struggles?
Because these are struggles andyet there are so many games we
can play that are going toenhance and help and alleviate
some of these problems and reallong term issues, by actually
just adapting the games we'replaying with his food, because
(09:47):
he's ditched his bowl.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, so there's loads of disengagement games for
a start.
So any of those, and they canall be played with food, so
they're brilliant, because anydisengagement game is going to
boost that.
Give me an example of adisengagement game that you and
rupert like disengagementpattern and explain how it works
, so you would start with nodistractions but ultimately work
up to being able to disengagefrom distractions is the idea.
(10:09):
So throw some food, one pieceof food or some low value food
towards a distraction, butstarting off with something
that's really not thatinteresting, yeah, so setting
him up for success, that's notsomething he's gonna think like
big soft toy.
There's something that's notthat interesting for them and
then when he flips back towardsyou because he knows you've got
(10:30):
more food, then lots of food.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And it could be something as simple as like a I
don't know a lamppost or agoalpost or a statue.
It doesn't have to be anythingparticularly sort of nothing
your dog is actually worriedabout at first.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
So Rupert, for example, is not a dog who pays
the remotest bit of interest tothe TV remote, so I could put
that on the floor and play withthat, whereas if he was a dog
that stole my TV remote, Iwouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, easy peasy.
Okay, so we're going to go witha disengagement game and we're
going to go with disengagementpattern.
Okay, what next?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Flexibility you mentioned has been quite a key.
Rupert's concept I we putconcepts.
I really like playing aroundwith things like how many?
Different behaviors.
Can you do with one thing nicea cardboard box or a platform.
So can you put your two feet onthe platform, can you go around
the platform, can you sit onthe platform, can you put your
back feet on the platform, canyou ignore the platform, which
is then disengagement andflexibility in one nice.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Can you chin, target the platform.
Can you lift up the platform ifit's small enough and hold the
platform?
Can you watch another dog workon the platform and you?
You lift up the platform ifit's small enough and hold the
platform.
Can you watch another dog workon the platform and you sit on
your boundary?
There's so many different games.
That's a really niceflexibility game.
Any others?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I guess optimism as well, thinking about his other
kind of Key concepts.
There are so many, aren't there?
Noise Box is a great one.
So, stick some noisy things ina plastic box, scatter some of
his food in there and then gethim sticky.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I also think that Noise Box and games like Noise
Box, Carpool, Chaos and Knock EmOver all of the games again we
play in Games Club If youhaven't joined, get on it.
I also think with those they'resuch easy games and a great
bang for your buck.
Like you get a lot for them, Iwouldn't play them till I'm like
at the end of my session or I'mfeeling a bit lazy, because I
always feel like they're a bitof a cop out in terms of the
fact I don't have to work toohard, but actually you get great
(12:14):
value for doing them.
I just always feel like they'reso easy, they're such good games
.
Now, the other game I wasthinking that I definitely,
definitely, definitely,definitely definitely would be
or I suppose strategy I'll beworking on is arousal up,
arousal down.
So what do you do?
What's one of your favoritegames for?
Arousal up, arousal down?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
so actually just again with his food, starting
him on his boundary.
So nice, low level of arousal,pretty calm.
Get him off the boundary, gethim chasing bits of food, or
then move it maybe to luringfood, so kind of slow it down a
bit and then I might ping thatinto a game that he knows, so
having the middle, and then firehim out in the middle.
(12:52):
So basically take his energy upand down a little bit and then
pop him back on the boundary andsee if he can kind of bring
himself back down again nice,really really nice game.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
The other one I was thinking I like for him and I
know you like for him is toyswitch.
Do you want to talk to toyswitch very quickly?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
yes, so two toys.
We tend to use frisbees orsocks.
Both work quite well for him,but obviously, whatever works
for the dog that you're playingwith, you animate one and get
them engaged with it and tuggingon it, and then that one goes
dead, so effectively stopsmoving, and then you get them to
engage with the second one andyou flip them between the two.
(13:25):
This is a game that I used tohate because I really couldn't
do it, and actually there aresome very funny videos of when
rupert and I first played it,where I was literally kneeling
on the first frisbee and hestill wouldn't let go and he was
.
He was pulling me along thefloor.
He was so determined to not letgo of that first one bless him.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I just think that's such a cracking game like a
really, really, really good gamefor him and a game that I think
can definitely help.
Now another thing I know thatyou and rupa are superstars of
your brilliant tricks.
Just explain why you thinktricks help with stopping him
biting your dad, because thatsounds nuts like hang on a
second.
There's this dog he's doinglike circus tricks and one
(14:03):
minute he's biting and the nextminute he's doing a circus trick
Like how does that even work?
But I know it to be true thathe's so much better when he's
playing tricks and it almostcompletely it's like a light
switch.
It like changes him from likedark and night, like dark and
daylight, like he goes from likereal, like difficult to manage
(14:25):
right through to like night andday, isn't, yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
well, firstly, he enjoys it, so you're giving him
something to do that if he findsa real amount of joy in.
So he's having fun, so he's ina good headspace, and I think
when you're in a good headspaceyou're always more optimistic
and you're less in your oh,everything's bad, everything's
gonna get me kind of frame ofmind, aren't you?
So that is one aspect of itteaching tricks and playing
around with tricks.
(14:47):
They actually build all of theskills we've been talking about
as well.
So teaching him to put his toysin a box, he's learning
disengagement, because he's gotto pick one up and drop it and
then he's got to go and pickanother one up and drop it.
Flexibility, again, the samekind of thing.
You're right, you can put toysin a box.
Now can you put socks in a box?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
that every trick can build so many of these skills
yeah, the concepts, the tricksand the concepts work so well
hand in hand and I think themovement and the variety and the
animation and the fact they'refunny and the fact that he looks
so cute, teddy bear, and thefact that he's, um, doing it
with so much fun, I think for me, yeah, makes complete, complete
sense.
Now, anyone out there who'slistening, or maybe you want to
(15:25):
share this with a friend, ormaybe you want to share this
with another dog owner, or I'mgoing to suggest you do share it
, because you know what sharingis caring.
Anybody who's been through abite incident or been through an
incident where, um, they'resupporting someone who's had a
bite incident, or maybe you're atrainer and this is going to
happen at some point within yourstudents or classes.
What would you say?
Just as a, as a, as a way ofmoving on to the next stage,
(15:46):
because you can stay in thatproblem and it can feel pretty
horrific and obviously biteincidents can become very, very
serious, so they are worth like,taking note and being aware of,
but at the same time, I alsothink there's a good space.
It's not like you've ended inand this was a put to sleep case
.
This is actually your, yourfluffy dog and and he's still
your best mate.
It's just that we have had thisincident, so we need to now
take that as information.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah.
So I think the first thingreally is as much as possible,
don't let it define yourrelationship from now on,
because it was an isolatedincident and it was because of a
lack of knowledge on my dad'spart and an inappropriately
managed situation and lack ofskills on Rupert's part, and it
(16:29):
was just a bit of a kind ofboiling pot of lots of things
that led to that, so that itdoesn't define Rupert, it
doesn't actually define my dad'srelationship with Rupert and it
doesn't define mine with Ruperteither and I think, high five,
karen, because it really doesn't.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
And I think, at the same time, that information is
really important.
You've got the information.
You know what happened there.
Insanity is doing the samething over and over and
expecting a different result.
Have you done the same thingagain with him and have you let
him practice the same thingsince?
No, and I think this is reallyimportant, that we do what we do
now with the knowledge and thepower to, to do better, and for
me, that's really, really,really impactful.
(17:07):
And so let's not dwell on thepast, let's dwell on well, let's
not dwell, let's just goforward and let's go to the
future.
So, how does it look today?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So, we play games, we give my parents strategies when
they have Rupert and actually Ido minimize how many times they
have to have him Absolutely,because I think that's wise for
everybody but they are stillhappy to have him and we've just
done the things like we'vetalked about, so he has his
(17:35):
harness on and nobody's then inthat situation of conflict where
that could potentially happenagain.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
No, fantastic.
Now, guys, if you're listeningand you're thinking I wish I had
more help with my dog in thissituation, you need to get on
the games club.
You need to join us for pro dogtrainer club.
Has your life transformed withrupert and do you feel like
you've got the answers?
Whilst, yes, there's somemanagement, do you feel like you
know how to handle hisstruggles and helping your dad
and the relationship?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
yeah, and if anybody's listened to some of
our previous podcasts, theyprobably think fl a neck, she's
got a lot of struggles andwhat's she doing and why does it
not work?
Mindset of this is just one dayand actually look at the bigger
picture and there are things wecan do, and how would I tweak
(18:38):
it and what would I dodifferently next time?
And there's all of that.
And then there's always thesupport.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
That, for me, is massive, isn't it?
The support of the community.
So there's always a communityto support you and there's
always people out there who aregoing to be there to have your
backs and to look after you.
Now, I know that bite incidentscan be really, really serious,
and what we're talking about isa dog who gave a warning sort of
bite and said I don't want toget off this sofa.
What we do with that?
Information is important Now.
Important now if you'relistening and you want more
support.
(19:03):
We've got one-to-one support,we've got group support, we've
got pro dog trainer games club.
We've got so many differentthings that you can can get
involved in.
What I'm going to suggest isyou do get involved.
So thank you, karen, for sharingyou and rupert's story.
We're gonna do that again andyou absolutely are crushing it.
I love what karen said.
Look, this isn't because thisisn't working.
This is because, actually, I doknow how to handle this and we
(19:24):
can move this forward and weactually keep this dog rather
than being a put to sleep case,which, again, when they have had
incidents like that, that cango down that route, and I think
it's viable to discuss that too.
I think it's really importantwe don't have closed
conversations there.
I think it is actually.
You know, those things dohappen to dogs and that's why,
guys, if you're listening,please share this podcast.
There are so many people whoneed to hear this.
(19:45):
This dog yep, he did bitekaren's dad and, at the same
time, the information, thelearning, the growth and the
opportunities that have comefrom that.
They're massive.
That was this episode of thepodcast.
Please share it with yourfriends and we'll see you next
time.
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
Oh, my goodness, my dog bit mydad.
(00:33):
You know what?
I guess you guys are listening,thinking what the hell?
And yet it happens.
It happens.
Dogs are dogs and there are byincidents, and that doesn't make
them a terrible dog and itdoesn't make your dad a terrible
person for doing the wrongthing.
Actually, sometimes thesethings happen.
Now, karen, I'm joined byRupert's mum.
Karen, this is a bigopportunity for you to really
get Rupert's story out there,also from the point of view of
(00:56):
your dad, from you, like how didit actually happen and how did
it come about?
Because when we play it back,it all feels fairly obvious and
yet in that moment it wenthorribly wrong.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
My dad had Rupert for the weekend and my parents had
Rupert for the weekend and heneeded to have his harness put
on and he was on the sofa verycomfortable, happily chilling
away, probably not reallywanting to go out for a bedtime
wee, wee and my dad moved him tophysically put the harness on.
So, whereas I know that thebest opportunity for Rupert if I
(01:31):
got, to get his harness on isto move him with some food, get
him actually moving, loosen himoff and then make that a
consensual activity, my dadwasn't quite as clued up on that
and just physically tried tomove him.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And when he went to physically move Rupert, rupert
basically said no.
So effectively he didn't giveconsent.
He was like I don't giveconsent to getting off the sofa
right now.
I quite like sitting on thesofa and I'm quite happy in this
space.
And no, I don't want to go outfor a late outside, possibly
rainy, wee, wee.
Thank you, no.
And it was his version ofsaying no, thank you.
He just didn't maybe have thethank you or the no in the
(02:07):
potentially correct sort ofspace.
Now, how might you prevent that?
Or how might we do better?
By our dog?
Or how might we prevent,prevent I suppose it's happening
to our dad and and actually,where did you go from here?
Because it's really easy for usto fall out with our family
members, it's really easy for usto lose our dog sitter, it's
really easy for us to feel veryguilty, and guilty for a long
time, on this, and these are allreally normal observations,
(02:30):
feelings, frustrations, upset,angst.
Where do you sit with that?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
now, yeah.
So I did and do feel guilty andmy parents are one of the few
people who can or will lookafter Rupert.
He's not the easiest dog tolook after.
So it was important from myrelationship with my parents'
point of view, and also fromoccasionally needing somebody to
look after Rupert point of view, that that relationship didn't
break down and they were stillhappy to have him and not
(02:57):
feeling like he was going to bedangerous or difficult.
So I guess the first thing wasexplaining to them why stillness
is not his.
He's not in a good headspace.
If he's still, he struggleswith disengagement, which is
something I know that kind ofgoes through.
All of his behavior struggles.
Disengagement or an inabilityto disengage is one of his
(03:21):
biggest struggles.
So explaining that to them andthen giving them strategies so
actually at the moment, if ifrupert goes to my parents house,
he wears his harness all thetime.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That's just the easiest for him and for them and
I think that's a great idea toshare these things with people
because that makes completesense to me.
Leave the dog in the harnessand lots of people say, oh, but
they're not comfy overnight orthey might chew it.
Well, they might, but theymight not and actually maybe
they're not as comfortableovernight but actually the whole
family and the whole dynamic ismore comfortable and we don't
have these bite incidents whichactually fundamentally don't
(03:51):
make the dog or the human feelvery good.
They're not actually good foranyone, because the dog ends up
being in the bad book of thehouse and the bad dog in the
house and the human ends upfeeling frustrated, upset,
anxious that it hurt.
They feel all the bad thingstoo.
So actually it's no good foranyone and ultimately, like you
said, it does break therelationship down.
So that's one of yourstrategies.
What other strategies have youcome up with so that actually we
(04:12):
don't have the moment of help?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
my dog's just bitten my dad so they also know now
that if they need to move him,the best way to do that is to
throw some food, and he willtypically follow it and make him
well.
Movement is really valuable forhim because once he's in that
kind of stuck state, then he ispotentially going to react if
he's not happy about something.
So getting him moving is alwaysa good strategy, whether that's
(04:34):
me or my parents or anyone elsewho's handling him, but I mean
I don't.
He doesn't eat from a bowl withme.
We've ditched the bowl.
My parents are slightly less onboard with that, so they have
an easy version of ditch the theBowl when he stays with them,
which might be puzzle feedersand snuffle mats and whatever
else.
They're not playing games withhim, but some of that food is
(04:57):
there for you need to attachRupert's lead to his harness, or
you need to move him, or youneed to distract him from
chewing my auntie's scarf, whichis another thing he's done when
he stayed with them.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
It's all about understanding him and not having
the right management in placereally, and I get it that some
dogs are easier than rupert, andI also know that actually
rupert is a little bit morecomplex and there are lots of
learnt behaviors but alsogenetics or tendencies.
So, knowing that he's got thosefrustrations and those spaces
and those early learnings andthose genetics, actually these
(05:29):
are, these are ways of lifereally for Rupert.
So you know, these are thingsthat we likely will have to do
for a little while orpotentially forever.
Now, when we're thinking aboutwhat got him into the situation
in the first place, the factthat he is even on sofas in
their house I know that'ssomething he enjoys doing and I
know that's something theyprobably enjoy having him there
as well.
But are there any boundaries orrules around sofas?
(05:49):
Probably enjoy having him thereas well, but is there are there
any boundaries or rules aroundsofas, or could there be any
boundaries or?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
rules around sofas?
There certainly could be.
I mean, he does have boundariesat their house.
He doesn't go in their bedroom,for example, and he, he just
knows well, he doesn't have theoption of going in their, their
bedroom at all, whereas in myhouse, my rules and I know how
to to kind of deal with that andthat doesn't present us with a
problem.
Yeah, he's allowed in mybedroom.
Yeah, he's not allowed in theirbedroom.
That's a definite barrier andyes, certainly we could give
(06:15):
them right.
Here's his bed, his boundary.
He goes on there.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah you're on the sofa.
Yeah, and I think this is worththinking about.
If you've got a dog, that mightbe similar to this.
I know I was working withbehavior case not that long ago
and the owner was havingstruggles with a sofa and
actually we just took the sofaoff bounds so the sofa was no
longer a part of that dog'sspace and actually the behavior
went away at the same timebecause we'd removed the access
to the sofa.
So sometimes by removing access, then actually you've you've
(06:40):
solved some of that problem orpart of that problem, because
they no longer have access to it.
Another thing you touched basedon it touched based on there
was about ditching the bowl forr rupert to stop actually any of
these bite incidents happening.
You've actually got lots offood to utilize and to use.
If you were thinking bitingspecifically or rupert and
struggling to um effectivelydisengage, let's.
(07:01):
Let's just look at the biting.
What concepts is?
Is rupert lacking when he'sgone into bites?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
well, probably quite a of them, but disengagement is
definitely one.
I mean, the opposite end ofdisengagement is engagement,
isn't it?
So he is extremely engagingwith me in a very inappropriate
way, which involves his teeth,and I think another missing
concept, optimism is definitelyone.
You're going to move me.
I don't really know why don'tlike it.
(07:29):
So that's another one.
And then I think the other kindof key one here is probably a
lack of a dimmer switch or alack of an ability to kind of
regulate his emotions, so he'llgo up very quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I'd also say flexibility.
So I don't think Rupert's thatflexible.
I think Rupert likes thingsthat Rupert's sort of way and so
they kind of go in a set order.
It's funny.
I've got a team member who'sjust started working for me and
he really loves the list andhe's like thank you so much for
a list.
And he's like really quiteinteresting.
He's like I love my list, Ireally love my list, and you can
(08:05):
really see he's very attachedto his list and I think Rupert
should really get on well withmy mum because she likes a list.
They'd get on well, wouldn'tthey?
And so I feel that there's thatregimented likes to know what's
coming, how and when, and likesfull explanations of all before
he signs up for anything, andso I think the flexibility sort
of switch is there, isn't itLike we're not that flexible,
(08:26):
and I think that that issomething also to be grown.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, and then his bucket as well.
He's got quite a small bucket,however much work I do to try
and make it bigger and to helpit empty.
So he's been put into asituation where his routine is
disrupted, I guess as much as hehas a routine For whatever
reason.
He's not in my house, he's intheir house.
I'm not there, they're there.
So that isn't actually going tofill his bucket a bit more.
(08:49):
So it's a bit of a kind ofmixed bag of missing concepts
that all play into that, I think.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So much, so much there.
Now, if we think about Rupertas a dog, who you do earn his
food and you do play games withhis food, what sort of games and
what sort of strategies?
And guys, if you're not alreadypart of Games Club and if
you're not doing some of ourlearning, please, please, please
, please, please, jump in atGames Club.
What's the link for Games Club,karen?
Have you got that link?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
AbsoluteDogsme forward slash join the club.
She's got it, she's got it.
So once more, absolutedogs,join the club.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So join the club.
Join the club with us, becausewe'd love to show you some games
but what games?
Would be some of Rupert's bestgames to go to here to try and
solve some of these struggles?
Because these are struggles andyet there are so many games we
can play that are going toenhance and help and alleviate
some of these problems and reallong term issues, by actually
just adapting the games we'replaying with his food, because
(09:47):
he's ditched his bowl.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, so there's loads of disengagement games for
a start.
So any of those, and they canall be played with food, so
they're brilliant, because anydisengagement game is going to
boost that.
Give me an example of adisengagement game that you and
rupert like disengagementpattern and explain how it works
, so you would start with nodistractions but ultimately work
up to being able to disengagefrom distractions is the idea.
(10:09):
So throw some food, one pieceof food or some low value food
towards a distraction, butstarting off with something
that's really not thatinteresting, yeah, so setting
him up for success, that's notsomething he's gonna think like
big soft toy.
There's something that's notthat interesting for them and
then when he flips back towardsyou because he knows you've got
(10:30):
more food, then lots of food.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And it could be something as simple as like a I
don't know a lamppost or agoalpost or a statue.
It doesn't have to be anythingparticularly sort of nothing
your dog is actually worriedabout at first.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
So Rupert, for example, is not a dog who pays
the remotest bit of interest tothe TV remote, so I could put
that on the floor and play withthat, whereas if he was a dog
that stole my TV remote, Iwouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, easy peasy.
Okay, so we're going to go witha disengagement game and we're
going to go with disengagementpattern.
Okay, what next?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Flexibility you mentioned has been quite a key.
Rupert's concept I we putconcepts.
I really like playing aroundwith things like how many?
Different behaviors.
Can you do with one thing nicea cardboard box or a platform.
So can you put your two feet onthe platform, can you go around
the platform, can you sit onthe platform, can you put your
back feet on the platform, canyou ignore the platform, which
is then disengagement andflexibility in one nice.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Can you chin, target the platform.
Can you lift up the platform ifit's small enough and hold the
platform?
Can you watch another dog workon the platform and you?
You lift up the platform ifit's small enough and hold the
platform.
Can you watch another dog workon the platform and you sit on
your boundary?
There's so many different games.
That's a really niceflexibility game.
Any others?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I guess optimism as well, thinking about his other
kind of Key concepts.
There are so many, aren't there?
Noise Box is a great one.
So, stick some noisy things ina plastic box, scatter some of
his food in there and then gethim sticky.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I also think that Noise Box and games like Noise
Box, Carpool, Chaos and Knock EmOver all of the games again we
play in Games Club If youhaven't joined, get on it.
I also think with those they'resuch easy games and a great
bang for your buck.
Like you get a lot for them, Iwouldn't play them till I'm like
at the end of my session or I'mfeeling a bit lazy, because I
always feel like they're a bitof a cop out in terms of the
fact I don't have to work toohard, but actually you get great
(12:14):
value for doing them.
I just always feel like they'reso easy, they're such good games
.
Now, the other game I wasthinking that I definitely,
definitely, definitely,definitely definitely would be
or I suppose strategy I'll beworking on is arousal up,
arousal down.
So what do you do?
What's one of your favoritegames for?
Arousal up, arousal down?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
so actually just again with his food, starting
him on his boundary.
So nice, low level of arousal,pretty calm.
Get him off the boundary, gethim chasing bits of food, or
then move it maybe to luringfood, so kind of slow it down a
bit and then I might ping thatinto a game that he knows, so
having the middle, and then firehim out in the middle.
(12:52):
So basically take his energy upand down a little bit and then
pop him back on the boundary andsee if he can kind of bring
himself back down again nice,really really nice game.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
The other one I was thinking I like for him and I
know you like for him is toyswitch.
Do you want to talk to toyswitch very quickly?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
yes, so two toys.
We tend to use frisbees orsocks.
Both work quite well for him,but obviously, whatever works
for the dog that you're playingwith, you animate one and get
them engaged with it and tuggingon it, and then that one goes
dead, so effectively stopsmoving, and then you get them to
engage with the second one andyou flip them between the two.
(13:25):
This is a game that I used tohate because I really couldn't
do it, and actually there aresome very funny videos of when
rupert and I first played it,where I was literally kneeling
on the first frisbee and hestill wouldn't let go and he was
.
He was pulling me along thefloor.
He was so determined to not letgo of that first one bless him.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I just think that's such a cracking game like a
really, really, really good gamefor him and a game that I think
can definitely help.
Now another thing I know thatyou and rupa are superstars of
your brilliant tricks.
Just explain why you thinktricks help with stopping him
biting your dad, because thatsounds nuts like hang on a
second.
There's this dog he's doinglike circus tricks and one
(14:03):
minute he's biting and the nextminute he's doing a circus trick
Like how does that even work?
But I know it to be true thathe's so much better when he's
playing tricks and it almostcompletely it's like a light
switch.
It like changes him from likedark and night, like dark and
daylight, like he goes from likereal, like difficult to manage
(14:25):
right through to like night andday, isn't, yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
well, firstly, he enjoys it, so you're giving him
something to do that if he findsa real amount of joy in.
So he's having fun, so he's ina good headspace, and I think
when you're in a good headspaceyou're always more optimistic
and you're less in your oh,everything's bad, everything's
gonna get me kind of frame ofmind, aren't you?
So that is one aspect of itteaching tricks and playing
around with tricks.
(14:47):
They actually build all of theskills we've been talking about
as well.
So teaching him to put his toysin a box, he's learning
disengagement, because he's gotto pick one up and drop it and
then he's got to go and pickanother one up and drop it.
Flexibility, again, the samekind of thing.
You're right, you can put toysin a box.
Now can you put socks in a box?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
that every trick can build so many of these skills
yeah, the concepts, the tricksand the concepts work so well
hand in hand and I think themovement and the variety and the
animation and the fact they'refunny and the fact that he looks
so cute, teddy bear, and thefact that he's, um, doing it
with so much fun, I think for me, yeah, makes complete, complete
sense.
Now, anyone out there who'slistening, or maybe you want to
(15:25):
share this with a friend, ormaybe you want to share this
with another dog owner, or I'mgoing to suggest you do share it
, because you know what sharingis caring.
Anybody who's been through abite incident or been through an
incident where, um, they'resupporting someone who's had a
bite incident, or maybe you're atrainer and this is going to
happen at some point within yourstudents or classes.
What would you say?
Just as a, as a, as a way ofmoving on to the next stage,
(15:46):
because you can stay in thatproblem and it can feel pretty
horrific and obviously biteincidents can become very, very
serious, so they are worth like,taking note and being aware of,
but at the same time, I alsothink there's a good space.
It's not like you've ended inand this was a put to sleep case
.
This is actually your, yourfluffy dog and and he's still
your best mate.
It's just that we have had thisincident, so we need to now
take that as information.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah.
So I think the first thingreally is as much as possible,
don't let it define yourrelationship from now on,
because it was an isolatedincident and it was because of a
lack of knowledge on my dad'spart and an inappropriately
managed situation and lack ofskills on Rupert's part, and it
(16:29):
was just a bit of a kind ofboiling pot of lots of things
that led to that, so that itdoesn't define Rupert, it
doesn't actually define my dad'srelationship with Rupert and it
doesn't define mine with Ruperteither and I think, high five,
karen, because it really doesn't.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
And I think, at the same time, that information is
really important.
You've got the information.
You know what happened there.
Insanity is doing the samething over and over and
expecting a different result.
Have you done the same thingagain with him and have you let
him practice the same thingsince?
No, and I think this is reallyimportant, that we do what we do
now with the knowledge and thepower to, to do better, and for
me, that's really, really,really impactful.
(17:07):
And so let's not dwell on thepast, let's dwell on well, let's
not dwell, let's just goforward and let's go to the
future.
So, how does it look today?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So, we play games, we give my parents strategies when
they have Rupert and actually Ido minimize how many times they
have to have him Absolutely,because I think that's wise for
everybody but they are stillhappy to have him and we've just
done the things like we'vetalked about, so he has his
(17:35):
harness on and nobody's then inthat situation of conflict where
that could potentially happenagain.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
No, fantastic.
Now, guys, if you're listeningand you're thinking I wish I had
more help with my dog in thissituation, you need to get on
the games club.
You need to join us for pro dogtrainer club.
Has your life transformed withrupert and do you feel like
you've got the answers?
Whilst, yes, there's somemanagement, do you feel like you
know how to handle hisstruggles and helping your dad
and the relationship?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
yeah, and if anybody's listened to some of
our previous podcasts, theyprobably think fl a neck, she's
got a lot of struggles andwhat's she doing and why does it
not work?
Mindset of this is just one dayand actually look at the bigger
picture and there are things wecan do, and how would I tweak
(18:38):
it and what would I dodifferently next time?
And there's all of that.
And then there's always thesupport.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
That, for me, is massive, isn't it?
The support of the community.
So there's always a communityto support you and there's
always people out there who aregoing to be there to have your
backs and to look after you.
Now, I know that bite incidentscan be really, really serious,
and what we're talking about isa dog who gave a warning sort of
bite and said I don't want toget off this sofa.
What we do with that?
Information is important Now.
Important now if you'relistening and you want more
support.
(19:03):
We've got one-to-one support,we've got group support, we've
got pro dog trainer games club.
We've got so many differentthings that you can can get
involved in.
What I'm going to suggest isyou do get involved.
So thank you, karen, for sharingyou and rupert's story.
We're gonna do that again andyou absolutely are crushing it.
I love what karen said.
Look, this isn't because thisisn't working.
This is because, actually, I doknow how to handle this and we
(19:24):
can move this forward and weactually keep this dog rather
than being a put to sleep case,which, again, when they have had
incidents like that, that cango down that route, and I think
it's viable to discuss that too.
I think it's really importantwe don't have closed
conversations there.
I think it is actually.
You know, those things dohappen to dogs and that's why,
guys, if you're listening,please share this podcast.
There are so many people whoneed to hear this.
(19:45):
This dog yep, he did bitekaren's dad and, at the same
time, the information, thelearning, the growth and the
opportunities that have comefrom that.
They're massive.
That was this episode of thepodcast.
Please share it with yourfriends and we'll see you next
time.
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