August 5, 2025 • 22 mins
What do you do when your massive mastiff mix - described as "half grizzly bear, half donkey" - turns into a reactive nightmare? For Alice, the journey with Bonnie began with serious doubts about whether she could provide a forever home for such a challenging dog.
Most small reactive dogs get labeled "cute" despite their behaviour. But for Bonnie, a large brindle mix with impressive strength, her reactive episodes weren't just embarrassing - they triggered public concern about dangerous dogs. Alice needed solutions that worked in real-world situations, not just controlled environments.
The transformation came through three key concepts: calmness, disengagement, and optimism. Alice shares the three specific games from Absolute Dogs' Games Club that fundamentally changed her relationship with Bonnie and Bonnie's relationship with the world.
Figure of Eight created meditative, smooth movement patterns that calmed Bonnie's jerky anxiety.
Orientation Game provided crucial "pulse checks" before off-lead adventures, allowing Alice to assess Bonnie's mental state in any environment.
Finally, Disengagement Pattern and Rewind gave both dog and owner muscle memory for redirecting attention away from triggers.
Perhaps most powerful is Alice's candid admission that these games didn't just modify behaviour - they saved Bonnie's home. "There was probably several months where Chris and I sort of felt like, can we do this? Can we maintain a forever home for Bonnie?"
Today, Alice speaks with confidence about advocating for her dog and creating an environment where both can thrive. Their relationship has transformed from struggle to partnership, proving that even the most challenging dogs can become calm companions with the right approach.
Want to experience a similar transformation with your dog? Visit the Absolute Dog Store to discover these games and more training solutions that could change everything for you and your dog.
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https://absolutedogs.me/jointheclub
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
Bonnie's top three games.
(00:31):
Now, alice, I've challenged youto bonnie's best three games
club games.
How are you doing this?
How are you even gonna handlegiving us just three?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Outrageously mean I can't believe you're limiting me
to three, but I'm going to try.
I'm going to try and I can say,for the start, her top three
concepts will start there.
For her it's always beencalmness, disengagement and
optimism.
These are the three mainconcepts that she really did not
come with and that we've grownand we've built over time and
(01:05):
her transformation has beenremarkable and continues to be.
But these are the three mainareas that we keep topping up
and keep sort of focusing on.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So can I pause you there.
Tell everybody who's listeningour amazing listeners I know
they're sharing this, lovingthis.
They want to hear from realowners like you and your
gorgeous dog, bonnie.
Tell us, alice, what does thatactually mean?
Practically like, when someonesays disengagement, you're like,
yeah, that sounds like a goodword, but what does that
actually mean?
So what does it mean to you,what does it mean to Bonnie, and
(01:35):
why is it important for yougoing forward before we dive
into the games yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So when we got Bonnie , she definitely saw that there
was there, that there was valueand there was importance in
paying attention to just aboutanything and everything in her
environment.
So being able to teach her someskills of disengagement
actually the value is in comingaway from it, the value is in
ignoring it was hugely important.
(02:00):
I also mentioned optimism, andthat's because not only did she
pay attention to a lot of whatwas in her environment and I
think that there was a lot ofimportance in distractions in
the environment but she tendedto be on the pessimistic side,
so she would tend to think thatsomething novel, something
ambiguous if in doubt, shout atit, make a big noise, make a big
(02:22):
scene, hope it goes away, sortof thing.
So she wasn't sort of veryhappy about seeing things and
things moving around herenvironment.
So actually working on optimismgames has helped us to turn
that around.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Just to give everyone the picture, when you say she
might like bark at it or shemight notice it, or she might
notice it in a pessimistic way,how big is Bonnie and what does
that look like to someone else?
And maybe even give us thecolor and how she looks like.
Just run us through that,because I think with the little
miniature dash hound they getaway with stuff.
Bonnie ain't getting away withit, right?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
no, we we referred to it affectionately as as her
going full baskerville whenevershe'd have an outburst like this
and and luckily this thishardly ever happens these days
and hasn't for quite a long timenow.
But yeah, this, this she's, uh,she's sort of a giant breed mix
of we call her the sort of theMastiff Megamot Canicorso mix,
(03:16):
but she might as well be halfgrizzly bear, half donkey.
This, you know there's someshe's, she's, she's, she stands
out, she's sort of a big brindlepony and she's big and she's on
a on a on a lead and and she'sunder control.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
But she could actually almost tow you if she
so like, if she chooses to,right, and you've, you've worked
on that and you've got therelationship with her now that
you can handle it.
But actually for most people,if they see a dog like bonnie
and someone like you, you are.
For those that don't know alice, she's super tiny, super slim,
really neat, prim and proper.
And then she's got this massivemastiff mutt, as she just
describes as like a donkey cross, grizzly bear, and she could
(03:55):
look almost like penelopepitstop trying to hold on to her
, like you can just imagine thatthat moment, that look, and so
so for me it's important that wewe acknowledge that yes, she
needs disengagement and yes, sheneeds optimism, because
actually a dog like this willnot get away with it.
And I'm not saying a dash houndshould get away with it.
What I am saying is that a cutelittle fluffy bichon or a super
like long little sausage dog,if they sort of act up, people
(04:18):
kind of acknowledge them and goha ha, funny, little like, like,
like small, like small dog witha chip on its shoulder.
Actually, with her she fitsinto.
The dangerous dogs act quitequickly in most people's minds
and they will go much.
They will escalate it much,much quicker.
On a dog like Bonnie, would yousay that is correct and what
you've seen on the whole.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Definitely yeah, because, yeah, when if a smaller
dog is very upset and verypessimistic about something in
its environment you know, noticethe noise, you might notice you
know that it's it's sort ofpulling on lead or something.
But when as humans we're notsort of on the whole feeling
inherently threatened by that,but when a dog of bonnie's size
and and appearance sort of hasthat same emotional response to
(05:01):
something as humans, we're morelikely to think, oh my gosh,
it's going to eat me.
So yeah, for for any dog that'ssort of struggling with things
in its environment, theseconcepts of calmness and
disengagement, of optimism areso crucial.
But particularly we found, asbonnie's owners, that not only
to advocate for her well-beingand and her sort of health and
(05:22):
happiness and her ability tosort of go through life in a
much, much nicer way, but alsoto advocate for anybody else we
might see.
You know we really needed tohave these concepts locked down,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So we've got the concepts and we can definitely
see why they're relevant to youand to our donkey cross grizzly
bear, and she's definitely I'mgoing to, I'm not going to
forget that one.
Now, what about the games?
Which games are you choosing?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
All right, yeah, I think I think I've got my
shortlist, so I'm kind of goingto go like start a main course
dessert with this, because Ithink it's actually.
Yeah, yeah, we might have somehonorable mentions as well.
So one of the I think one ofthe most maybe underrated games
club games, but one that hasreally moved the needle for us
(06:11):
properly is figure of eights.
So this is just a nice sort ofactivation game, just kind of
getting started, just gettingsome smooth, calm movement with
your dog.
There's no cueing behavior,there's no, you know, not even
really any sort of marking, it'sjust moving together.
(06:31):
It's just getting into a nicesmooth pattern where you know
you've seen sort of reactivedogs out and about.
Maybe you have a reactive dogyourself and you've seen that
their movements can be quitesticky, quite jerky, quite stiff
, and this is not the movementof a happy, relaxed, calm dog.
So if we can help them to justease into some calmer movement,
it's almost kind of meditative,if I've said that right, and I
(06:55):
definitely found that withBonnie.
And we could do that inside inthe house, we could do that in
the yard, in the alley behindour the terrace house where we
live, where we live.
We could do that in the park,we could take this behavior and
sort of just start to grow thatin different environments where
actually it was just a hey,we're just moving together nice
and smooth, nice and calm, andyou know that, you know that it
(07:18):
was a nice gentle start to someinteraction and of course we
could then utilize it in figureof eight, moving towards and
away from a distraction at adistance that she was
comfortable with, or movingparallel in that nice smooth
motion to something, so that wecould actually start to reduce
(07:39):
the importance and reduce thesort of her even being aware or
kind of noticing those sort ofdistractions that had once got
us the full basketball response.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Now I love this, Alice, because selfishly, I was
the one that brought figure ofeight to Games Club.
It was my game and, of course,there is no original thought.
I always think that someoneelse will have had that thought
at some point.
However, that was my game and,of course, no, there is no
original thought.
I always think that someoneelse will have had that thought
at some point.
However, that was my game tobring to games club.
And what I particularly like andlove about figure of eight is I
really really really enjoy theidea that it almost feels a bit
(08:12):
meditative, that you're almostin meditation.
When you're in it you like I goa bit trance, like I get
walking and I just sort of walkthe mile, walk the mile and I
don't really think aboutanything else.
And it's a bit like for mefeeding the fish, or I'm
currently watching the goat outmy window with two feet in her
bucket eating, munching away, ormaybe I'm watching the chickens
eat, like it's quite ameditative state.
(08:32):
So you're doing something veryrhythmical and it feels very
rhythmical and it feels verysteady.
I really love that you pickedfigure of eight and it's one of
those games.
It's definitely a games clubgame.
It's an absolute dog's game,but it's one of those games I
think is, like you said, reallyunderrated because it actually
looks very simple, but it hasreally far-reaching results and
I love that you picked it.
Now we're up for game two.
(08:53):
What is your second choice?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I have a quick story, actually about figure of eight,
so I've just remembered.
So when it was snowing over thewinter, just sort of recently
and it I mean we don't get hugeamounts of snow up here, but
like so, bonnie had never seenthe amount of snow we had one of
these days and we were like wewent to down to the normal sort
of field where we have a lot ofour walks and of course it
(09:16):
looked completely different andyou know, the kids were off,
there was lots of kids sort ofsledging, there was people
building, snowmen and all sortsof novelty that Bonnie had not
seen before, not experiencedbefore, even though this was an
environment she comes to almostdaily.
And of course she was noticingthis novelty.
She was trying.
(09:37):
Is it a good thing?
Is it a bad thing?
No-transcript one.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I love it, I absolutely love it and I love,
like you said, this is a placeshe goes every single day and
yet suddenly it's a completelydifferent place, because here I
mean, looks so green today, butyou pick it on a day of snow and
it's going to be completely.
It looks like a differentcountry.
So absolutely agree on that.
Go on then, alice.
What's your game two, all rightgame two.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So this is so.
This is kind of.
If figure of eights was mystarter, then this is like our
sort of main course and such agood optimistic engagement game.
I'm going for orientation game.
So this is so versatile and so,again, it's a low pressure game
.
There's no particular cueing,there's no nagging involved with
(10:47):
it.
There's no major criteria thatwe're putting on the dog to
offer a certain behavior.
It's very simple.
We're just sort of marking,rewarding those little check-ins
.
I feel that orientation game isa great conversation starter.
So sometimes, if you know we'rekind of on the walk and we're
(11:08):
thinking, okay, we've got somespace, we could have some
off-lead freedom, you knowthere's a kind of opportunity
for that.
Perhaps Like, where's your brainat Bonnie?
Let's just check that outbefore we unclip.
Let's just kind of see wherewe're at, see what kind of
engagement you're currentlycapable of today, in this moment
, and so just by starting a bitof orientation game we can very
(11:30):
quickly ascertain whereaboutsher brain is, how engaged she is
with us and how responsible sheis in that particular moment.
To maybe then and have somesome playing off lead and it's
so you can start playingorientation game on lead and
then you can actually justunclip, carry on playing and it
(11:51):
makes such a non-event of goingoff lead as well.
So I love that one.
And another reason why I loveit for bonnie is that actually
there can be a little bit ofscent work involved, because if
I throw a piece of food and shedoesn't immediately see where
it's gone, she can actuallyreally enjoy just sort of
snuffling that out in the grassand she enjoys that part just as
(12:11):
much as she enjoys the movementpart.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And then you can start kind of layering up into
the weather games, you kind ofthunder and a typhoon and all
the rest of it what I love aswell, though, alice, is that I
feel safe, knowing that whenyou're going to let a grizzly
bear off and I've got like avery tiny teddy bear blink like
she really is diddy it makes mefeel comfortable that you're
doing your pulse checks beforeyou're getting into an off-lead
(12:35):
space.
And all of our listeners aregoing to be saying this too.
What a brilliant owner you arelike.
You are the owner I want tomeet on a walk.
You are, and yet dogs likebonnie typically aren't the dogs
I want to meet on walks, butwith you, as an owner, I do.
And yet my dog can be a realhassle with the wrong owner.
Right like she's good as gold,but suddenly she's going up and
saying hi to naughty but nicedogs and that's not appropriate.
(12:56):
And she's so.
She really doesn't hear if theygrowl at her and she's kind of
going a little bit sort ofcognitive declining.
So she's a little bit doddery.
You don't want to meet hereither.
You don't want her under yourtreats, snuffling out your best
bakery, and she is that dogwho's like almonds.
So she's the dog who'sunderneath your feet, and I
think it's really important weacknowledge that.
The right dog with the wrongowner and wrong owner, right dog
(13:19):
scenarios, that there are somany of those and I just think
you're so well placed when yousay things like orientation
gives me a pulse check.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, and Games Club's full of this.
This is why it's so hard topick three, because you know we
certainly went from a positionof like not knowing what to do
with Bonnie and it feels sort ofhelpless and you feel
vulnerable and you feel out yourdepth when you're in that
situation.
But like with having access tothe games club games, with
(13:49):
having those little kind ofsnippet sort of videos, those a
few minutes of your day, just toquickly learn something that
can then be so applicable toyour real life situation and to
so quickly changing it.
It's like if anyone listeningis thinking well, you know, I'm
not sure how responsible,whether I should be letting my
dog off lead or not, orsomething like this, or kind of
(14:11):
how can I tell, though theymight be thinking I want to make
progress, but are they ready?
And second guessing themselves.
A game like orientation game issuch a good kind of a good
little check it.
You can kind of you can startplaying and you can just see
because it changes from day today.
You know there'd be if we'vehad cold weather and then all of
a sudden we've got a day whenthe sun's out.
Bonnie can be a bit loopy, youknow so.
(14:33):
So sometimes it might be like,yeah, okay, no off lead for you
today because you're not, you'renot really checking in as much
as I would like right now.
Let's play some games where wejust top that up instead and you
can just change tactic, butonly if you've got those tools
in your toolbox, only if you'vegot those games in your head
where you can just go.
That's okay.
I know what to do in thissituation.
That's okay.
We're going to do this and youjust know how to advocate for
(14:56):
your dog and how to advocate forany other users of the space
that you're in.
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You know, on any given day, I love that you say
it's got to be at yourfingertips.
It's something you've alreadywatched, rehearsed.
It's a bit like dog training.
You've done it at home beforeyou go and take it out.
So you, you do know what you'redoing now, knowing that, alice,
you're going to pick your thirdgame.
So what is your third game?
I know there are more, but whatis your third game for all of
our listeners?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
all right.
So when we've looked at kind ofa, something for calmness,
something for kind of optimism.
So my, my dessert game isdisengagement pattern or maybe
rewind.
I've never been able to onlypick one dessert, so but yeah.
So the disengagement pattern oror rewind, both really great
(15:40):
games for you know, for kind ofgetting the attention sort of
away from a distraction in theenvironment that's none of your
dog's business, and getting thatattention back on you, these
are, they're just good maneuversthat become almost kind of
muscle memory.
A to b is another really goodone as well, like kind of all
they're all kind of in the samesort of family and and again,
(16:01):
just such a great thing to havein mind to just know what to do.
So it's it's muscle memory foryou as much as it is for your
dog in terms of just being ableto go okay, right, there's
something up ahead.
She's noticed that you knowwe've got a six kilo spaniel off
lead or something like that.
Bonnie's going to be interestedin that.
We don't need to be any of itsbusiness.
Let's do something more fun inthe other direction.
(16:23):
Let's actually turn the valueback this way, and and and
disengagement pattern, rewind,are both fantastic for that.
You know, there's like, say,game games club is just full of
these really fun but reallypractical games that are there
to help you with your dogtraining struggle, whether
that's reactivity or whetherit's something else.
You know these are not justkind of fun games, they are fun
(16:47):
games with a real life purpose.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I love that, alice, and I'm just thinking if there
were to be a thumb war betweendisengagement pattern and rewind
, sam is disengagement pattern.
If those of you listening knowSam, she's amazing green eggs
and ham and I would be rewind.
I really love rewind aboutsports sort of events and I'm
kind of pulling, being pulledforward into something and I'm
(17:10):
like rewind and it just gives mea bit of a moment of like,
regaining a level of connection.
And then I know Sam fordisengagement pattern with their
naughty little terriers.
They are just fantastic dogs,they're hooligans and I again
love, love, love, love theconcept and the game.
Ultimately, what we're lookingat is can we get our dogs to
reorient to us when the goinggets tough?
(17:31):
And for some dogs the answer isno, and actually that's where
we need to assess theenvironment and are we even
capable of being in thatenvironment right now?
And sometimes the answer tothat is no.
Ultimately, what I love is, asowners, we are given these tools
to almost test where we're atand effectively do a bit of a
temperature check.
Now, I know you're you're abaker and so you've got some of
your amazing bakeryopportunities behind you.
(17:54):
Do you ever test your cakes?
Do you like test them by eatingthem?
Do you test them withtemperature, like thermometers,
or what do you do?
Are there various tests thatyou have for cakes?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
If we're doing like a new recipe or something like
that, where we're kind ofthinking, is this quite right?
Or you know we'll kind of wemight be.
You know, yeah, testing forsort of flavour texture.
Does it slice neatly?
Is it going to be good for thecafes?
How long will it keep for Allof these things?
Yeah, we'll definitely sort oftest for something and put it
through its paces before it goeson sale, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And so it's exactly the same.
We're effectively going intoenvironment, we're putting it
out to test and we're seeingwhere we are with it and it's a
bit of a temperature check.
So I love the games you chose.
I think they're all reallyvalid.
I love that you picked yoursort of starter, your main and
your desserts and I love thatyou managed to get an extra one
in there and I also know thatthey've had real life and
meaningful impact.
(18:41):
Like you said, they're fun butequally.
They're fun but equally.
They've also kind of got a goodbang for their buck.
They've actually given you reallife results.
How do you feel now, owning adog like Bonnie, compared to
where you did when you started?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So much more kind of cool, calm and in control.
Because now, you know, let'shypothesise a situation of we're
kind of walking along andthere's, you know, know, another
dog walker in the environment.
Without any of those games,we'd have been walking in with a
bonnie who's moving verystiffly, very alert, certainly
(19:17):
not paying attention towhoever's on the other end of
the lead and is in debt, insteadjust scanning the environment,
spotting something that's moving, something that's novel,
deciding it's a bad thing, andgetting into a kind of a full
Baskerville moment about it andpossibly dragging me across the
field.
Whereas when you then look atthat same situation with these
(19:40):
games, we've got a situationwhere we're taking a Bonnie into
that situation where we canstart off with some nice smooth
movement, get so kind of workingas a team and moving nicely
together, and then, you know, wecan sort of get her feeling
good in that environment, youknow, and sort of feeling kind
of optimistic, feeling, rewardedin that environment where her
focus actually is on, is on meor, you know, whoever is playing
(20:02):
with her, that that's where thereward is coming from and
that's where it's worth puttingher focus.
And then if there is another dogowner kind of in the
environment.
Yeah, she might, she's stillgoing to notice it, you know
she's, you know, a very awaresort of dog.
But I can say, oh well, spottedbonnie, let's go and play in
this direction.
And we've got that rewind,we've got that disengagement
pattern where she actually knowsthat the guaranteed reward, the
(20:24):
guaranteed result, theguaranteed fun is happening by
coming away from thatdistraction.
So it's a just polar oppositepicture and that is like
literally real world examplesthat we've experienced without
the games, and then now whatthat feels like with the games
and alice, how do you feel as anowner in terms of confidence
(20:45):
and, probably most importantly,competent?
Far more competent, certainlyLike, yeah, definitely.
There was probably severalmonths where Chris and I sort of
felt like, can we do this?
Can we sort of maintain aforever home for Bonnie?
Can we handle her?
Can we look after ourselves andher and everybody's?
Sort of maintain a forever homefor Bonnie?
(21:05):
Can we handle her?
Can we look after ourselves andher and everybody's sort of
best interests and keepeverybody sort of safe and
healthy and happy and andcertainly seriously question
that?
But it's it's so nice to knowthat we've sort of come through
that and that we are able to bethe very best home that she
could have and that we are ableto advocate for her and we are
able to transform her sort ofstruggles.
(21:29):
And to keep on going like we'renot done.
We'll just keep looking forother things that we can do,
other things we can teach, otherthings we can play, because
it's just, it's just it's funnow, it's enjoyable and it's
just a way of life now.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Alice, I'm proud of you.
I know that all of ourlisteners are listening, going
yes, yes and yes, if and yes.
If you want to find the gameshead over to the Absolute Dog
Store, whether you purchase oneof our courses, our mini courses
, our 10 days to stop, orwhether you dive into the games
club like Alice has, I know thatthis makes a difference to dogs
worldwide.
If you want to share it like it, love it, we celebrate you for
(22:01):
doing that, and you for doingthat and Alice, most of all, I
celebrate you.
Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel
podcast.
I'm Lauren Langman.
I'm one of the world's leadingdog trainers and it's my mission
to help owners become theirdog's top priority.
In each episode, you'lldiscover how to gain trust and
communicate with your dog likenever before, creating
unbreakable bonds that make youthe most exciting part of their
world.
Bonnie's top three games.
(00:31):
Now, alice, I've challenged youto bonnie's best three games
club games.
How are you doing this?
How are you even gonna handlegiving us just three?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Outrageously mean I can't believe you're limiting me
to three, but I'm going to try.
I'm going to try and I can say,for the start, her top three
concepts will start there.
For her it's always beencalmness, disengagement and
optimism.
These are the three mainconcepts that she really did not
come with and that we've grownand we've built over time and
(01:05):
her transformation has beenremarkable and continues to be.
But these are the three mainareas that we keep topping up
and keep sort of focusing on.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So can I pause you there.
Tell everybody who's listeningour amazing listeners I know
they're sharing this, lovingthis.
They want to hear from realowners like you and your
gorgeous dog, bonnie.
Tell us, alice, what does thatactually mean?
Practically like, when someonesays disengagement, you're like,
yeah, that sounds like a goodword, but what does that
actually mean?
So what does it mean to you,what does it mean to Bonnie, and
(01:35):
why is it important for yougoing forward before we dive
into the games yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So when we got Bonnie , she definitely saw that there
was there, that there was valueand there was importance in
paying attention to just aboutanything and everything in her
environment.
So being able to teach her someskills of disengagement
actually the value is in comingaway from it, the value is in
ignoring it was hugely important.
(02:00):
I also mentioned optimism, andthat's because not only did she
pay attention to a lot of whatwas in her environment and I
think that there was a lot ofimportance in distractions in
the environment but she tendedto be on the pessimistic side,
so she would tend to think thatsomething novel, something
ambiguous if in doubt, shout atit, make a big noise, make a big
(02:22):
scene, hope it goes away, sortof thing.
So she wasn't sort of veryhappy about seeing things and
things moving around herenvironment.
So actually working on optimismgames has helped us to turn
that around.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Just to give everyone the picture, when you say she
might like bark at it or shemight notice it, or she might
notice it in a pessimistic way,how big is Bonnie and what does
that look like to someone else?
And maybe even give us thecolor and how she looks like.
Just run us through that,because I think with the little
miniature dash hound they getaway with stuff.
Bonnie ain't getting away withit, right?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
no, we we referred to it affectionately as as her
going full baskerville whenevershe'd have an outburst like this
and and luckily this thishardly ever happens these days
and hasn't for quite a long timenow.
But yeah, this, this she's, uh,she's sort of a giant breed mix
of we call her the sort of theMastiff Megamot Canicorso mix,
(03:16):
but she might as well be halfgrizzly bear, half donkey.
This, you know there's someshe's, she's, she's, she stands
out, she's sort of a big brindlepony and she's big and she's on
a on a on a lead and and she'sunder control.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
But she could actually almost tow you if she
so like, if she chooses to,right, and you've, you've worked
on that and you've got therelationship with her now that
you can handle it.
But actually for most people,if they see a dog like bonnie
and someone like you, you are.
For those that don't know alice, she's super tiny, super slim,
really neat, prim and proper.
And then she's got this massivemastiff mutt, as she just
describes as like a donkey cross, grizzly bear, and she could
(03:55):
look almost like penelopepitstop trying to hold on to her
, like you can just imagine thatthat moment, that look, and so
so for me it's important that wewe acknowledge that yes, she
needs disengagement and yes, sheneeds optimism, because
actually a dog like this willnot get away with it.
And I'm not saying a dash houndshould get away with it.
What I am saying is that a cutelittle fluffy bichon or a super
like long little sausage dog,if they sort of act up, people
(04:18):
kind of acknowledge them and goha ha, funny, little like, like,
like small, like small dog witha chip on its shoulder.
Actually, with her she fitsinto.
The dangerous dogs act quitequickly in most people's minds
and they will go much.
They will escalate it much,much quicker.
On a dog like Bonnie, would yousay that is correct and what
you've seen on the whole.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Definitely yeah, because, yeah, when if a smaller
dog is very upset and verypessimistic about something in
its environment you know, noticethe noise, you might notice you
know that it's it's sort ofpulling on lead or something.
But when as humans we're notsort of on the whole feeling
inherently threatened by that,but when a dog of bonnie's size
and and appearance sort of hasthat same emotional response to
(05:01):
something as humans, we're morelikely to think, oh my gosh,
it's going to eat me.
So yeah, for for any dog that'ssort of struggling with things
in its environment, theseconcepts of calmness and
disengagement, of optimism areso crucial.
But particularly we found, asbonnie's owners, that not only
to advocate for her well-beingand and her sort of health and
(05:22):
happiness and her ability tosort of go through life in a
much, much nicer way, but alsoto advocate for anybody else we
might see.
You know we really needed tohave these concepts locked down,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So we've got the concepts and we can definitely
see why they're relevant to youand to our donkey cross grizzly
bear, and she's definitely I'mgoing to, I'm not going to
forget that one.
Now, what about the games?
Which games are you choosing?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
All right, yeah, I think I think I've got my
shortlist, so I'm kind of goingto go like start a main course
dessert with this, because Ithink it's actually.
Yeah, yeah, we might have somehonorable mentions as well.
So one of the I think one ofthe most maybe underrated games
club games, but one that hasreally moved the needle for us
(06:11):
properly is figure of eights.
So this is just a nice sort ofactivation game, just kind of
getting started, just gettingsome smooth, calm movement with
your dog.
There's no cueing behavior,there's no, you know, not even
really any sort of marking, it'sjust moving together.
(06:31):
It's just getting into a nicesmooth pattern where you know
you've seen sort of reactivedogs out and about.
Maybe you have a reactive dogyourself and you've seen that
their movements can be quitesticky, quite jerky, quite stiff
, and this is not the movementof a happy, relaxed, calm dog.
So if we can help them to justease into some calmer movement,
it's almost kind of meditative,if I've said that right, and I
(06:55):
definitely found that withBonnie.
And we could do that inside inthe house, we could do that in
the yard, in the alley behindour the terrace house where we
live, where we live.
We could do that in the park,we could take this behavior and
sort of just start to grow thatin different environments where
actually it was just a hey,we're just moving together nice
and smooth, nice and calm, andyou know that, you know that it
(07:18):
was a nice gentle start to someinteraction and of course we
could then utilize it in figureof eight, moving towards and
away from a distraction at adistance that she was
comfortable with, or movingparallel in that nice smooth
motion to something, so that wecould actually start to reduce
(07:39):
the importance and reduce thesort of her even being aware or
kind of noticing those sort ofdistractions that had once got
us the full basketball response.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Now I love this, Alice, because selfishly, I was
the one that brought figure ofeight to Games Club.
It was my game and, of course,there is no original thought.
I always think that someoneelse will have had that thought
at some point.
However, that was my game and,of course, no, there is no
original thought.
I always think that someoneelse will have had that thought
at some point.
However, that was my game tobring to games club.
And what I particularly like andlove about figure of eight is I
really really really enjoy theidea that it almost feels a bit
(08:12):
meditative, that you're almostin meditation.
When you're in it you like I goa bit trance, like I get
walking and I just sort of walkthe mile, walk the mile and I
don't really think aboutanything else.
And it's a bit like for mefeeding the fish, or I'm
currently watching the goat outmy window with two feet in her
bucket eating, munching away, ormaybe I'm watching the chickens
eat, like it's quite ameditative state.
(08:32):
So you're doing something veryrhythmical and it feels very
rhythmical and it feels verysteady.
I really love that you pickedfigure of eight and it's one of
those games.
It's definitely a games clubgame.
It's an absolute dog's game,but it's one of those games I
think is, like you said, reallyunderrated because it actually
looks very simple, but it hasreally far-reaching results and
I love that you picked it.
Now we're up for game two.
(08:53):
What is your second choice?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I have a quick story, actually about figure of eight,
so I've just remembered.
So when it was snowing over thewinter, just sort of recently
and it I mean we don't get hugeamounts of snow up here, but
like so, bonnie had never seenthe amount of snow we had one of
these days and we were like wewent to down to the normal sort
of field where we have a lot ofour walks and of course it
(09:16):
looked completely different andyou know, the kids were off,
there was lots of kids sort ofsledging, there was people
building, snowmen and all sortsof novelty that Bonnie had not
seen before, not experiencedbefore, even though this was an
environment she comes to almostdaily.
And of course she was noticingthis novelty.
She was trying.
(09:37):
Is it a good thing?
Is it a bad thing?
No-transcript one.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I love it, I absolutely love it and I love,
like you said, this is a placeshe goes every single day and
yet suddenly it's a completelydifferent place, because here I
mean, looks so green today, butyou pick it on a day of snow and
it's going to be completely.
It looks like a differentcountry.
So absolutely agree on that.
Go on then, alice.
What's your game two, all rightgame two.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So this is so.
This is kind of.
If figure of eights was mystarter, then this is like our
sort of main course and such agood optimistic engagement game.
I'm going for orientation game.
So this is so versatile and so,again, it's a low pressure game
.
There's no particular cueing,there's no nagging involved with
(10:47):
it.
There's no major criteria thatwe're putting on the dog to
offer a certain behavior.
It's very simple.
We're just sort of marking,rewarding those little check-ins
.
I feel that orientation game isa great conversation starter.
So sometimes, if you know we'rekind of on the walk and we're
(11:08):
thinking, okay, we've got somespace, we could have some
off-lead freedom, you knowthere's a kind of opportunity
for that.
Perhaps Like, where's your brainat Bonnie?
Let's just check that outbefore we unclip.
Let's just kind of see wherewe're at, see what kind of
engagement you're currentlycapable of today, in this moment
, and so just by starting a bitof orientation game we can very
(11:30):
quickly ascertain whereaboutsher brain is, how engaged she is
with us and how responsible sheis in that particular moment.
To maybe then and have somesome playing off lead and it's
so you can start playingorientation game on lead and
then you can actually justunclip, carry on playing and it
(11:51):
makes such a non-event of goingoff lead as well.
So I love that one.
And another reason why I loveit for bonnie is that actually
there can be a little bit ofscent work involved, because if
I throw a piece of food and shedoesn't immediately see where
it's gone, she can actuallyreally enjoy just sort of
snuffling that out in the grassand she enjoys that part just as
(12:11):
much as she enjoys the movementpart.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And then you can start kind of layering up into
the weather games, you kind ofthunder and a typhoon and all
the rest of it what I love aswell, though, alice, is that I
feel safe, knowing that whenyou're going to let a grizzly
bear off and I've got like avery tiny teddy bear blink like
she really is diddy it makes mefeel comfortable that you're
doing your pulse checks beforeyou're getting into an off-lead
(12:35):
space.
And all of our listeners aregoing to be saying this too.
What a brilliant owner you arelike.
You are the owner I want tomeet on a walk.
You are, and yet dogs likebonnie typically aren't the dogs
I want to meet on walks, butwith you, as an owner, I do.
And yet my dog can be a realhassle with the wrong owner.
Right like she's good as gold,but suddenly she's going up and
saying hi to naughty but nicedogs and that's not appropriate.
(12:56):
And she's so.
She really doesn't hear if theygrowl at her and she's kind of
going a little bit sort ofcognitive declining.
So she's a little bit doddery.
You don't want to meet hereither.
You don't want her under yourtreats, snuffling out your best
bakery, and she is that dogwho's like almonds.
So she's the dog who'sunderneath your feet, and I
think it's really important weacknowledge that.
The right dog with the wrongowner and wrong owner, right dog
(13:19):
scenarios, that there are somany of those and I just think
you're so well placed when yousay things like orientation
gives me a pulse check.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, and Games Club's full of this.
This is why it's so hard topick three, because you know we
certainly went from a positionof like not knowing what to do
with Bonnie and it feels sort ofhelpless and you feel
vulnerable and you feel out yourdepth when you're in that
situation.
But like with having access tothe games club games, with
(13:49):
having those little kind ofsnippet sort of videos, those a
few minutes of your day, just toquickly learn something that
can then be so applicable toyour real life situation and to
so quickly changing it.
It's like if anyone listeningis thinking well, you know, I'm
not sure how responsible,whether I should be letting my
dog off lead or not, orsomething like this, or kind of
(14:11):
how can I tell, though theymight be thinking I want to make
progress, but are they ready?
And second guessing themselves.
A game like orientation game issuch a good kind of a good
little check it.
You can kind of you can startplaying and you can just see
because it changes from day today.
You know there'd be if we'vehad cold weather and then all of
a sudden we've got a day whenthe sun's out.
Bonnie can be a bit loopy, youknow so.
(14:33):
So sometimes it might be like,yeah, okay, no off lead for you
today because you're not, you'renot really checking in as much
as I would like right now.
Let's play some games where wejust top that up instead and you
can just change tactic, butonly if you've got those tools
in your toolbox, only if you'vegot those games in your head
where you can just go.
That's okay.
I know what to do in thissituation.
That's okay.
We're going to do this and youjust know how to advocate for
(14:56):
your dog and how to advocate forany other users of the space
that you're in.
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You know, on any given day, I love that you say
it's got to be at yourfingertips.
It's something you've alreadywatched, rehearsed.
It's a bit like dog training.
You've done it at home beforeyou go and take it out.
So you, you do know what you'redoing now, knowing that, alice,
you're going to pick your thirdgame.
So what is your third game?
I know there are more, but whatis your third game for all of
our listeners?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
all right.
So when we've looked at kind ofa, something for calmness,
something for kind of optimism.
So my, my dessert game isdisengagement pattern or maybe
rewind.
I've never been able to onlypick one dessert, so but yeah.
So the disengagement pattern oror rewind, both really great
(15:40):
games for you know, for kind ofgetting the attention sort of
away from a distraction in theenvironment that's none of your
dog's business, and getting thatattention back on you, these
are, they're just good maneuversthat become almost kind of
muscle memory.
A to b is another really goodone as well, like kind of all
they're all kind of in the samesort of family and and again,
(16:01):
just such a great thing to havein mind to just know what to do.
So it's it's muscle memory foryou as much as it is for your
dog in terms of just being ableto go okay, right, there's
something up ahead.
She's noticed that you knowwe've got a six kilo spaniel off
lead or something like that.
Bonnie's going to be interestedin that.
We don't need to be any of itsbusiness.
Let's do something more fun inthe other direction.
(16:23):
Let's actually turn the valueback this way, and and and
disengagement pattern, rewind,are both fantastic for that.
You know, there's like, say,game games club is just full of
these really fun but reallypractical games that are there
to help you with your dogtraining struggle, whether
that's reactivity or whetherit's something else.
You know these are not justkind of fun games, they are fun
(16:47):
games with a real life purpose.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I love that, alice, and I'm just thinking if there
were to be a thumb war betweendisengagement pattern and rewind
, sam is disengagement pattern.
If those of you listening knowSam, she's amazing green eggs
and ham and I would be rewind.
I really love rewind aboutsports sort of events and I'm
kind of pulling, being pulledforward into something and I'm
(17:10):
like rewind and it just gives mea bit of a moment of like,
regaining a level of connection.
And then I know Sam fordisengagement pattern with their
naughty little terriers.
They are just fantastic dogs,they're hooligans and I again
love, love, love, love theconcept and the game.
Ultimately, what we're lookingat is can we get our dogs to
reorient to us when the goinggets tough?
(17:31):
And for some dogs the answer isno, and actually that's where
we need to assess theenvironment and are we even
capable of being in thatenvironment right now?
And sometimes the answer tothat is no.
Ultimately, what I love is, asowners, we are given these tools
to almost test where we're atand effectively do a bit of a
temperature check.
Now, I know you're you're abaker and so you've got some of
your amazing bakeryopportunities behind you.
(17:54):
Do you ever test your cakes?
Do you like test them by eatingthem?
Do you test them withtemperature, like thermometers,
or what do you do?
Are there various tests thatyou have for cakes?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
If we're doing like a new recipe or something like
that, where we're kind ofthinking, is this quite right?
Or you know we'll kind of wemight be.
You know, yeah, testing forsort of flavour texture.
Does it slice neatly?
Is it going to be good for thecafes?
How long will it keep for Allof these things?
Yeah, we'll definitely sort oftest for something and put it
through its paces before it goeson sale, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And so it's exactly the same.
We're effectively going intoenvironment, we're putting it
out to test and we're seeingwhere we are with it and it's a
bit of a temperature check.
So I love the games you chose.
I think they're all reallyvalid.
I love that you picked yoursort of starter, your main and
your desserts and I love thatyou managed to get an extra one
in there and I also know thatthey've had real life and
meaningful impact.
(18:41):
Like you said, they're fun butequally.
They're fun but equally.
They've also kind of got a goodbang for their buck.
They've actually given you reallife results.
How do you feel now, owning adog like Bonnie, compared to
where you did when you started?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So much more kind of cool, calm and in control.
Because now, you know, let'shypothesise a situation of we're
kind of walking along andthere's, you know, know, another
dog walker in the environment.
Without any of those games,we'd have been walking in with a
bonnie who's moving verystiffly, very alert, certainly
(19:17):
not paying attention towhoever's on the other end of
the lead and is in debt, insteadjust scanning the environment,
spotting something that's moving, something that's novel,
deciding it's a bad thing, andgetting into a kind of a full
Baskerville moment about it andpossibly dragging me across the
field.
Whereas when you then look atthat same situation with these
(19:40):
games, we've got a situationwhere we're taking a Bonnie into
that situation where we canstart off with some nice smooth
movement, get so kind of workingas a team and moving nicely
together, and then, you know, wecan sort of get her feeling
good in that environment, youknow, and sort of feeling kind
of optimistic, feeling, rewardedin that environment where her
focus actually is on, is on meor, you know, whoever is playing
(20:02):
with her, that that's where thereward is coming from and
that's where it's worth puttingher focus.
And then if there is another dogowner kind of in the
environment.
Yeah, she might, she's stillgoing to notice it, you know
she's, you know, a very awaresort of dog.
But I can say, oh well, spottedbonnie, let's go and play in
this direction.
And we've got that rewind,we've got that disengagement
pattern where she actually knowsthat the guaranteed reward, the
(20:24):
guaranteed result, theguaranteed fun is happening by
coming away from thatdistraction.
So it's a just polar oppositepicture and that is like
literally real world examplesthat we've experienced without
the games, and then now whatthat feels like with the games
and alice, how do you feel as anowner in terms of confidence
(20:45):
and, probably most importantly,competent?
Far more competent, certainlyLike, yeah, definitely.
There was probably severalmonths where Chris and I sort of
felt like, can we do this?
Can we sort of maintain aforever home for Bonnie?
Can we handle her?
Can we look after ourselves andher and everybody's?
Sort of maintain a forever homefor Bonnie?
(21:05):
Can we handle her?
Can we look after ourselves andher and everybody's sort of
best interests and keepeverybody sort of safe and
healthy and happy and andcertainly seriously question
that?
But it's it's so nice to knowthat we've sort of come through
that and that we are able to bethe very best home that she
could have and that we are ableto advocate for her and we are
able to transform her sort ofstruggles.
(21:29):
And to keep on going like we'renot done.
We'll just keep looking forother things that we can do,
other things we can teach, otherthings we can play, because
it's just, it's just it's funnow, it's enjoyable and it's
just a way of life now.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Alice, I'm proud of you.
I know that all of ourlisteners are listening, going
yes, yes and yes, if and yes.
If you want to find the gameshead over to the Absolute Dog
Store, whether you purchase oneof our courses, our mini courses
, our 10 days to stop, orwhether you dive into the games
club like Alice has, I know thatthis makes a difference to dogs
worldwide.
If you want to share it like it, love it, we celebrate you for
(22:01):
doing that, and you for doingthat and Alice, most of all, I
celebrate you.
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