January 28, 2025 • 36 mins
Amanda Sebolai is the founder of the South African natural haircare brand, Dignify Afro Beauty and my guest in this episode of Shades and Layers.
Amanda's personal journey of embracing her natural hair led her to create a line of innovative haircare products that celebrate African beauty and self-love. Inspired by her daughters, Amanda's products are helping to transform hair care for African women in post-apartheid South Africa. Her story gives insight into how long it takes and exactly what it takes to build a brand step by step.
There is no entrepreneurial journey that is totally smooth and Amanda's is no different. In our conversation she highlights some of the bumps she hit while transitioning from homemade formulations to becoming a thriving business that seeks to own its entire value chain. She also credits customer engagement and feedback as the core of Dignify Afro Beauty's success. According to her, one of the most important pillars of her brand is being rooted in cultural identity and empowerment.
Amanda wants to build a legacy company and leave a meaningful imprint on the world. Find out how she plans to do it all.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers.
I'm your host, GuguanosKosanarichi.
My guest today isJohannesburg-based haircare
entrepreneur Amanda Sibulai.
Her brand, Dignify Afro Beauty,has been growing in leaps and
bounds over the past five yearsand having an impact beyond
providing products that go onyour hair that go on your hair.
Amanda tells us about hervision for this brand and how
(00:25):
she thinks it can contribute tothe growing self-love movement
in post-apartheid South Africa.
She shares her own hair journey, how she launched and grew out
her product line, and the pathto being available online and
slowly expanding to localretailer stores.
Our conversation is bothinstructive and informative and,
(00:46):
as always, we keep thingscandid.
So, without further ado, let'sget into the story of Dignify
Afro Beauty and its founder,Amanda Sibulai.
Let's start with what it isthat you do as a company, what
you do in the company and whatit means to you on a deeper
level.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Wow, dignify Afro Beauty has become literally my
fourth child.
I have three children and it isso dear to me.
So what we do and you know,really, it's in the name, right
we dignify African beauty.
And I think for us for a verylong time, have really never
took a stand on defining our ownbeauty and not let the Western
(01:30):
environment to define our beauty.
We have definitely focused onthe Afro beauty, which is really
the natural hair piece which wecompletely believe is the
essence of our identity.
So, as Dignify Afro Beauty, wedignify natural hair beauty and
we believe that that translatesinto overall self-love.
(01:51):
What I do in the business I'mthe founder of Dignify Afro
Beauty I always say togetherwith my two daughters, because
everything we've done to startthis off has been together with
them and all the recipes we'vetried have tried on my hair and
on their hair.
They've even inspired some ofthe products themselves.
(02:11):
So, yeah, no, really, that'swhat I do and that's what
Dignify Afro Beauty is about.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, let's talk about your products.
So what do you offer out therefor all these naturalistas?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So we literally right now have about I'll call 10
products in the market and weoffer this one product called a
pre-wash.
In America they call it apre-poo, so we've called it a
pre-wash and this is reallyamazing because it's got a
garlic, it's got an onion thatreally helps with antifungal
(02:46):
properties.
It helps address the bacteriathat causes dandruff and it's
really awesome during, let's say, you've had braids for a very
long time.
You're undoing it.
Right, put this on as you undo,it will completely detangle
your hair.
It will cleanse your hair,literally deal with that
bacteria.
By the time you wash your hairor go to a hair salon, your hair
(03:08):
is completely moist, detangledand easy to look after.
We also have a shampoo andwe've got two types of shampoos.
So we've got this shampoo butalso a two-in-one shampoo and
conditioner and this is reallyawesome for your wash day Also
is great for let's.
You have your long-termprotective style.
You can use this while you'vegot your braids on, when you've
(03:30):
got your twists, when you've gotyour cornrows.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So that's the combo, the washer conditioner, washer
conditioner.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So that's really awesome.
And then we have two types ofconditioners.
So one is your normal hairconditioner that you would use
as part of just your wash day.
We also have a deep mask, whichis really your hair treatment
to keep your hair healthy.
We also then have a live-inconditioner, so after you've
(03:58):
washed and you've treated, itmoisturizes our hair naturally,
but also you can use it with wethair or dry hair.
It also revitalizes your curls,one of the biggest issues I
think that we battled with whenwe thought about Dignify for
Beauty was.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, I was wondering about that.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, was really to moisturize our hair.
We just found that whateverproduct we used, it was very
difficult to keep your hairmoisturized longer than the day
you applied that product.
And the inspiration of startingDignify Afro Beauty started
actually when I turned 40.
And I decided to cut my hairshort, and that was because my
(04:39):
girls had actually grown up withtheir hair either relaxed or in
braids and had never seen me inparticular with short hair like
yourself you know, um, and so Iwas like I need my girls to
know that you look beautiful,irrespective of what type of
hair you have.
That was really it.
It was not.
I want to start a natural haircompany, you know um and then I
wore my hair naturally for, youknow, two to three, four years.
(05:02):
Then I decided, okay, I want togrow this hair.
And as I journeyed to figureout how do you grow natural hair
, I realized it was a verydifficult journey At the time we
didn't have any of theseAmerican products in South
Africa literally had to definethis out myself.
I navigated the space.
(05:22):
It was extremely painful, untilI got to the point where I was
like, okay, let me just startcooking some stuff in my house.
And as I started really makingyour avocado oils, your carrot
oil, I mean, I think my familywas like there goes our grocery
bill right, and then, you know,olive oil.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You can imagine how expensive olive oil is.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So we literally did.
I mean it got to the pointwhere my helper knew when she
makes rice she has to put ricewater on the side for me.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I would find rice water in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And I think the reason I decided to go that
route was because I had triedwhatever I could find in the
market at the time and nothingwas working.
And if it was working, it wasfor a day, and then the next day
it's a different scenario.
And if it was working, it wasfor a day, and then the next day
it's a different you knowdifferent scenario.
I even had American friends atthe time that I also engaged.
I'm like guys, what are youusing?
They told me what products arewe using?
I shipped some of thoseproducts.
They did not work, you know.
(06:13):
And so I realized that there'ssomething really different about
our hair and all no one hasactually thought about how to
help our hair stay moisturized.
And literally even today, whenpeople find my products with all
these American products inSouth Africa, they always say
where have you been all my life?
Oh, that's so cool, honestly,honestly, and yeah, and I mean
(06:36):
one of our best products that wemoisturize with is this shine
lotion.
It is such a very simpleproduct that you put on your
hair every day, every morning,your hair in the morning.
It keeps your hair nice andshiny, but also moisturized.
Works for boys works for girls,works for teens, works for men
and women.
The second thing we realizedwas to also stop breakage.
Our hair breaks a lot, not onlybecause it's prone to breaking,
(07:01):
but also we don't know the haircare routine of how to gently
look after our hair.
So these products, they stopbreakage and people are really
blown away by that.
But then we also teach how tothen look after your hair.
Fingers are your best comb andjust how gentle one needs to be,
Because I think we grew upthinking our hair is tough, I
(07:21):
can handle anything.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Actually our hair is the most brittle.
Actually, let's get mostbrittle.
Yeah, actually, let's get intothat.
Because I'm wondering aboutyour hair journey.
Right, you have this part whichled to dignify Afro beauty.
Yeah, but before that, right,you had this period where you
are relaxing, braiding, and Iremember that was a requirement
in high school.
But you know before that,growing up, before entering into
(07:47):
these multiracial or majoritywhite spaces, what was your
experience with your own naturalhair?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
True, actually, I remember being in, you know,
growing up in lower primary.
We had my cousin.
She was the only one.
She was older than me, was theonly one who knew how to plait
our hair, and so literally onSundays, sundays she would be
the one plaiting our hair, asnatural as could be, and I just
remember how tight she wouldmake my plaits.
(08:10):
I think she hated plaiting ourhair.
You know you wouldn't be ableto smile for days.
Yeah, you know.
Number one.
Number two I remember us using,you know, that iron comb that
you put on the stove you know,to straighten our hair.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Silk press.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yes, I remember that and I mean, you know that's what
it was.
It was Vaseline, it wasglycerine that we used on our
hair, and I never had to thinkabout literally relaxing my hair
.
I think when I started relaxingmy hair I was about 16, which
was the time I was actually atthe multiracial school, but most
(08:46):
of the times and also braidingwas not allowed while I was in
junior school because it was aluxury.
It was expensive to put hairpieces on your hair, but only
when I was in high school thosethings started being introduced
in my life.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So there is a lost tradition there right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Because hair care is a community ritual and that's
where we find ourselves in ourown bathrooms trying to play,
and you know formulators, etc Iknow one of the things I really
want to do is to investigatethose old ways of how we looked
after hair, because one of thethings you see now a lot of us
as black women, especially insouth africa, are battling with
(09:24):
alopecia, are battling withthinning hair and it is
sometimes related to how we'velooked after hair, with the
different hair pieces, differentwigs, but I really want to know
how they got their hair.
Beautiful, big afros, remember,and for me that's the health,
that's the healthy hair no,absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
you say you worked with your daughters on this, so
tell me about how you eventuallystarted actually selling to
people, to the public.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah so.
So I tried these on the stoveproducts on my hair and for
first year and I was like I wasblown away.
I was blown away by how my hairresponded and how moisturized
it felt and how it startedgrowing.
The second year I said to mygirls girls, listen, can I
please try these on you?
Because I might be crazy, Imight be thinking these things
work but they actually don'twork for other people.
(10:12):
Can I try these on?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
you.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And literally for that second year, there was, you
know, willing, and we tried andwe realized how different our
three hair types were and howthe different products worked.
On this one I didn't work onthat one, and my girls one of
them is very much interested,you know she's she would make
her own products herself, like,oh, don't worry, I don't need
your, your pre-wash I've made myown, you know?
Okay, yeah, I know Right, andum, and so all the mayonnaise
(10:37):
and the eggs and everything,anyway, so, um.
So then, after I realized itworks on them as well, I thought
to myself wait a minute, thisneeds to be professionalized,
right.
And so I looked for amanufacturer that was willing,
or be willing, to take myrecipes and manufacture these
products for me.
(11:03):
I found a manufacturer that waswilling to literally take in
some of my ingredients, eventest them and create these
amazing products.
So this hair shine lotion wasour first one and one of the
things it has in here, which wasmy requirement.
I said I need some amazing herbthat you only get in India
included, and I literallybrought it to the manufacturer.
They created this whole productfor me.
Even today, I'm always testingnew products, but I start at
home.
I start at home, I test and Isee, and then I'm able to send
the recipes to them to say thisis what I want in this product.
(11:24):
I'll put it in so that's how ithappened.
And then we're able to sell, andthis product was quite
interesting because it was myfirst one.
So the minute I started selling, I think where I realized there
was value was when peoplewanted to buy it again, when I
started having repeat purchases.
This, of all of our products,this is the one that I think we,
we, we replenish three to fourtimes a year because it just
(11:45):
goes, and we're very gratefulfor that and very grateful for
our repeat clients that providesuch great reviews on the use of
our products.
So we're very grateful for that?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Hey, it's Shades and Layers.
And my guest today is founderof the South African hair care
brand Dignify Afro Beauty,amanda Sibulai.
Up next, we get into thepracticalities of how to run a
hair care brand her company'smilestones so far, as well as
how she balances her full-timejob with the demands of running
(12:21):
a small business the demands ofrunning a small business.
Before we get into the salesside of things, let's start with
the sourcing of youringredients.
How does that work for you?
What are some of?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
the challenges that you come across or advantages
being a small batch producer.
Yeah, it is not easy, so thegood thing is that when I'm at
home I don't need, obviously,large amounts of testing the
ingredients at first, so I usevery small volumes in terms of
those individual ingredients.
We do have amazing companieshere that sell natural either
dried leaves or dried spicesthat I'm able to purchase from.
(12:59):
One of the thingsfuturistically that I've
realized was that actually Iwould love to own the whole
value chain and actually startplanting my own ingredients.
So things like your avocados,things like my herbs that I use,
the spices that we use, I'dlove to be able to have a farm,
you know, so that I'm able toown that whole value chain.
(13:21):
But for now, I source them, andthere is one that I really can
you can only find in India.
One of the things that we'veengaged with our agriculture
department or minister is to saywhat are the processes of
bringing some of these plants,that we can farm them in South
Africa.
So it's for sure those are someof the things I'd love to be
able to do, but for now I sourcelocally.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Okay, that's great.
How do you find thesecollaborators?
Because it's quite a step fromformulating in your kitchen to
formalizing the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, I mean, it was really knocking on doors.
Hey, you knock and you knockand you knock and you like,
listen, I have this.
And you know you can imagine,like female young, who are you?
What are you looking for?
We can't help you.
You know you can imagine, likefemale, young, who are you?
What are you looking for?
We can't help you.
You know, and that's what youreceive A lot of just no's and
no's and no's.
You know, to the point, when Ifound this particular individual
(14:15):
and remember at the time, youdon't even have high amounts of
capital to really invest in thiswhole thing I can't buy a whole
ton of a product, you know andI needed a manufacturer that
will understand my financialstanding and that I'm really
looking to grow slowly and butsurely.
And it was very difficult, I'mnot going to lie, and I feel it
(14:36):
was very challenging for anyblack females, I suppose, or
SMMEs and entrepreneurs, to justenter this market and be able
to find people that will believein your dream and be able to
support you in implementing yourdream to the next level.
But, to be honest, I did pray alot, I did fast, a lot for this
business and I still do.
I meditate a lot because I needsome guidance, I need direction
(14:58):
and throughout all the stagesof the business, I feel like
I've been quite I don't know ifI want to call it lucky, but I
really appreciate the responsesand the answers that God has
given me through this journey.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Luck plays a role, but how did you raise the
capital?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Honestly from my pockets right.
Um, honestly from my pockets,right, it was really because you
know it was.
It's not a business that youjust jump out of your corporate
job and be like this is what I'mgoing to do full time, when
you've got a bond to pay andchildren to take to private
school.
You know so your costs are here, your revenues.
There is no way, you know.
(15:42):
So continued work full timefrom a corporate perspective and
then whatever additional extraincome I could, I invested in my
business and I continue to dothat.
Now the business is starting toliterally almost sustain itself
.
It's not there yet, but it'sreally awesome.
(16:03):
Looked for funding here andthere and quite a lot of the
funding for SMMEs.
I find you see a lot ofcompanies willing and able, but
when you think about it it's aninterest.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I'm like look, I'm not ready to get into debt to
run a business.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So we're at the point now where we're just like
listen, we're going to run it asfast as our income allows us,
but we are not going to breakthe bank, nor are we going to
get ourselves into debt.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, so slow productivity is the philosophy.
So what are the big milestonesfor you so far?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Wow, so big milestones for us.
Definitely the product range,because after we had the first
product out we realized that wecouldn't really launch big
without having a whole range.
I only sold to people that Iknew at the time, but being able
to have the whole range oflooking after your hair has been
really amazing.
So the fact that you couldliterally it will before you
(17:06):
wash, while you wash, treat yourhair and then on-go daily hair
care.
So that was a great milestonefor us.
The second milestone hasdefinitely been being able to
get your basics in place right.
Your website, with e-commerceenabled you know getting sales
on the website, you know creditcard payments that was really a
huge milestone for us is enabledyou know, getting sales on the
website, you know credit cardpayments that was really a huge
milestone for us.
(17:27):
And then, thirdly, being ableto just get onto social media
and understand how social mediaworks is something that we're
still learning, but the factthat we're on social media and
people know us, people are like,oh, I think I've seen you, I
think I've seen you know, sothat's really exciting.
And then, fourthly, just beingon take a lot.
It was a okay, so you'redistributing that nice I am
(17:47):
distributing through take a lotand just the process of getting
on to take a lot was you.
It was overwhelming.
You know the technical skillsthat are required to just enable
your product through thatplatform and being able to
create operational processes tomake sure you meet their
deadline.
Because the minute you get theorder you have to make sure you
meet their deadline.
Because the minute you get theorder you have to make sure it
arrives at take a lot within acertain time and if you miss
(18:08):
that SLA you get kicked out.
So being able to create thoseprocesses in the background has
been really amazing.
So those are great milestonesfor us.
What we're looking forward tois definitely being on the
retail space.
Okay, okay, so that's whereyou're going.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
We've looked at everything and knocked on quite
a few of these doors, yourclicks, your discounts, and what
we've realized, and with thesupport and the advice of one of
the big banks in South Africa,IDC, a big funder- was look I
think, rather than goingstraight into retail right now,
rather slow down, rather focuson just growing your market as
(18:44):
best as you can, as the minuteyou get into retail then you've
got other targets to achieve.
You must make sure that yourproduct gets sold.
If it doesn't get sold, youmust buy it back from the
retailer.
So where we are now is just weactually are okay not being on
the retail.
You know we are doing smallerretailers, so we are in smaller
(19:04):
retailers.
We've got two hair salons thatuse our products.
We've got one small pharmacynot far from where we stay.
We literally got an email aweek ago from a retailer that's
looking that actually said hey,people are coming to our
retailer asking for yourproducts.
Can you come?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh, that's interesting, that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, so that's really encouraging.
No, I mean, we think that theright time will come for us to
be able to pivot To do itcountrywide?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, but you know you say we.
Is it still your daughters ordo you have other members of the
team?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
For me, it's still my daughters, you know, still my
daughters.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Not good for them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So they guide me, they help me.
And then I've got anadministrator, a client service
administrator, that works tohelp with basic things like
making sure we've got thecontainers, making sure we've
got orders we do a lot ofmarkets as well Make sure we
prepare for the markets and justbasic administration type of
work.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So I've got someone that I hire that does that tell
me about the hiring process,because your first hire is super
important.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I'm on my third oh my goodness, I can't.
I can't, guys, you know so.
I mean you can imagine that Iwork full time.
You know so I need, when I sayI want to hire them, I say
you're here to run my businessfull-time and run it like it's
your business and sometimes youget good ones, sometimes you get
(20:35):
really bad ones with such badattitudes, you know.
So, yeah, I think it's a verysad situation that we're in.
Honestly, I think that basicwork ethic it's not about the
complex job, it's just very sadsituation that we're in.
Honestly, I think that basicwork ethic it's not about the
complex job, it's just a basicwork ethic.
Your work starts at eight,arrive at eight your boss told
you to do x, do x, don't do xminus one, like I don't
(20:55):
understand that and it's basicbasic tasks, so I am I am losing
my mind's very sad, honestly,because where do these
youngsters, where are they goingto get hired?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Oh, young people, I'm sorry.
I mean, I was once a youngperson running a business, so
I'm just like I'm very wary ofcriticizing, but everybody
complains about the same thing.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
What are we going to do?
And these are our children,Like in fairness, these are our
children and I'm just thinkingto myself what can we do?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
This is Shades and Layers, and we're coming up to
the final part of ourconversation with Amanda Sibulai
.
Let's now talk big picture andget into the Shades and Layers
rapid fire.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So what role do you think Dignify Afro Beauty plays
in the South African beautylandscape?
I really think I think we playbigger than the beauty landscape
, right and for us, we believethat our whole vision and
mission is to make sure thatpeople start loving themselves.
And if you think about hair andthe history of South Africa,
(22:10):
our hair was used against us.
There was a time during theapartheid regime.
At the time they used a penciltest on our hair to determine if
you were black and if thatpencil didn't fall off your hair
, you were black.
Determine if you're black andif that pencil don't fall off
your hair, you are black.
You know, and being black was,you can imagine, deemed to be a
(22:34):
very negative identity and ourgoal is to eradicate that trauma
that was placed upon us.
And we believe that by justletting people teach and let
them love their hair the way itis translates in them loving
themselves and who they are andhow beautiful they are and how
black and beautiful they are.
So for us, it's not just, it'snot really about beauty.
(22:56):
It's more than just reallybeing able to drive that
self-love back into our societyand just let people know you are
beautiful the way you are andno one should define that for
you.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I mean, it sounds like you're running a busy
operation.
How do you keep that center andfocus when the busyness of
running a business takes over?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, you know one of the things I and a lot of
people ask me that because I doquite a lot within this 24 hours
that we have in a day but onething that I've learned is to
compartmentalize my time.
So I know, between this timeand this time, I'm doing my
corporate job.
Between this time and this time, I do my business, and my
Saturdays, my weekends, are myweekends for me to do things
(23:39):
like my business, and that's whyI hire someone during the week
that they manage the customerservice piece.
I've got a contractor thatlooks after the development of
the website and then also, youknow, with all these AI tools as
well as the automation ofsocial media, it makes it a lot
easier because then I candedicate a weekend to literally
think about the social mediastrategy and design the content,
(24:03):
and then it gets postedautomatically on the system on
the days that I want it to beposted.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So there's also the regulatory side of things.
You have to make sure yourproducts are safe.
You have to get them tested.
What are some of theadjustments you've had to make
or any challenges that have comeyour way in that process?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
We've actually been quite privileged to be part of
the Consumer Goods Council, andwithin the Consumer Goods
Council they have EntrepreneurSupplier Development Arm, and so
we've been part of that andthey've really been amazing at
educating and teaching us aroundproduct development and
management and making sure thatwe are compliant.
So through that process, we'vebeen able to get our products
(24:43):
officially tested, get a testingresults and test certificates
so that's really been amazingand also being able to get
barcodes, which is reallycritical and important labeling
of your products.
You can't get into retailwithout a barcode.
So, and even within the barcodespace, there's elements of
(25:04):
compliance that you need toadhere to.
So we've been really exposed tothe whole value chain as well
as the compliance requirementsof each of these products.
There's the next level in termsof all of that process is
understanding the compliance ofshipping internationally, and
that's what we're starting tofigure out.
We've had literally clientsasking us please, can I have
your product?
And the minute we have to ship,obviously there's a whole other
(25:26):
requirement that we need toadhere to, so that's something
that we're working on now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, I don't even ask friends anymore, it's just
like, okay, it's way tooexpensive.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, but it's great to have Amazon here, so we're
excited about it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, so okay, has that helped in any way?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, that's my project for December.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
You're going to be busy, then I'm looking forward
to unpack that.
Okay, that's great.
I look forward to seeing yourproducts on this side.
That'll's great.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I look forward to seeing your product on this side
.
That'll be great, yay, so whatdo you think has been the most
fulfilling part of yourentrepreneurial journey so far?
Wow, I think it till today.
The most fulfilling for me arecomments and pictures I get from
our clients.
I just want to cry when aclient you know so, one of the
clients that I have.
I worked with her at the currentjob and she's like Amanda.
I heard that you've got naturalhair products my child's hair.
(26:23):
I'm about to relax it.
I don't know what to do with it.
I said to her wait, just trythese products.
So I gave her literally, Ithink, a shine lotion and, most
probably, oil.
She tried these products withina week.
She's like Amanda what is this?
I mean, she's been using it, Ithink, now for six months and
this week still she sends me apicture.
(26:45):
Amanda, look at your daughter'shair, look at my, you know, and
the child loves her afro.
The child loves her hair.
For me, that's the mostfulfilling when these young
children love their hair the wayit is.
I have a little salon chairthat every so often I get a
chance to play around with theseyoung children's hair and we
(27:06):
speak.
We speak about how beautifultheir hair is and how it shrinks
and why shrinkage is soimportant and how they can do
anything with it's the only typeof hair that can transform and
look like any other type of hairright, so you can take it from
a kink to a curly to a straight.
The other hair type can neverbe a kink.
(27:28):
They can never revert to ourstate, yet we can revert to all
the other states.
How beautiful is is that it'sgorgeous, it's gorgeous.
And having those conversationsfor me has been the most
fulfilling, fulfillingexperience.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great, that's really
really great.
So you basically want to createa legacy company, or would you
be interested if L'Oreal came toyou and offered you a buyout?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You know we've had this discussion with my husband
a lot.
You know he's like no, I mean,consider it, consider it.
You know, I think for me I'llbe very conflicted.
I'm not going to lie.
I'll be absolutely conflictedbecause I think for me I don't
know if you can translate mypassion and the vision of this
business to someone else, unless, of course, they're willing to
(28:20):
buy.
But I can still run the brandand continue driving what it
stands for.
So not L'Oreal, but I findthese company aggregators yeah,
sure.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So do you get any kind of support from other women
who are working with brands inthis space?
What's your mentorship andeducation looking like in here?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, it is not easy because obviously you can
imagine that we are competingagainst each other, so there's
no one who's going to be sittingaround and guiding and you know
, and advising you.
So I found great mentorship inum, the consumer goods council.
I'm on audio books quite a lotbecause you know time to sit and
(29:02):
read is actually very limited.
When I'm in my car, when I'm,you know, doing my my morning
meditation, I have opportunitiesto listen to audio, so I'm
going through that, learning howto do that.
My husband is an entrepreneurand he's been running his
business for 24 years, so he'sum provides me quite good, good
guidance in terms of, um, whatto do and what not to do.
Um, yeah, so if there's anyother ideas that you have there
(29:26):
of who could mentor me, I wouldbe open to it.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So now we've come to the part where we get to know
you a little bit more, and it'sthe shades and layers rapid fire
.
So first question is what wouldyou call your memoir and why um
?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I would call it.
She came and left with impactokay, and why is that?
I think for me, um, you know,when I turned 40, I looked at my
life, I looked back and Ithought, yo, I spent the first
40 years all about me, me, me,me, me, and which was right,
right, because then I had tofocus on my education, my job,
(30:07):
my, you know exactly yeah, and Ithought you're doing yeah
exactly, you know.
But I look back and I thought,no, the next 40 years, how could
I spend just all being about me, me, me.
What am I giving back?
What am I giving back to theworld?
And I feel like you know, Ireally want to do that.
I want to be able to provide animpact.
I want to change someone's life, even if it's just a little bit
(30:30):
of it or a little aspect.
So, for me, I want to make animpact and I would call it that
Okay, because the impact I madefor me was not only in the hair
business.
I also started a nonprofitafter I turned 40, and that
focuses on just being able togive back, you know, to my
hometown, soweto.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
What nonprofit it's called, first Things First and
we provide extra lessons andtutoring and Saturday schools to
a township school or highschool and remedial English
lessons.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, we've been running it now since 2016.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And it's been also quite fulfilling.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Oh, amanda, you're so inspiring.
This is so great, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Thank you and you're so inspiring.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
This is so great, thank you.
Thank you, and you look sohappy I am, you know.
I'm so grateful.
That is so great it's lovely.
I love it.
I love it, thanks.
So if you had to turn your lifestory into a movie, who would
play the lead actress?
If you had to turn your lifestory into a movie, who would
play the lead actress,interestingly, I think.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know, I think I couldn't think of anyone else
but my two daughters.
To be honest, oh good, are theyyour mini-me twins?
But no, the thing is, they knowme, but they know different
sides of me.
You, the one will act they'refirm.
You know strict, um, you know,because she's actually like that
(32:01):
.
And then the other one wouldact the soft.
Uh, you know giving to everyone, never getting anything back.
You know, miserable and sad andcries all the time for little
things.
You know, and I can see myselfin both of them.
It's so interesting how they,each one of them, have taken
different aspects of my, of me.
I think they would really actme the best way, but you'd have
(32:24):
to use both of them because okay, great, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And then, finally, which famous black woman or dead
would you invite to dinner, andwhy?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
This is going to sound very different and I can't
say famous, but the one blackwoman I'd love to invite for
dinner, dead or alive, would bemy mother's mom.
Okay, life would be my mother'smom.
Okay, I had never met her and,um, and she left my mom or died
when my mom was 12, and thethings that she taught my mom in
(33:06):
that those first 12 years havehad a multi-generational impact,
you know, and and I don't know,you know because I've
personally benefited from her Iwould love to meet her.
I'd love to have her for dinner, right, I'd love to understand.
How did she know what she'sknown?
And one of the biggest lessonsthat have helped us as a family
(33:30):
on the back of this black womanthat I've never met has been
just having a positive mindsetand being able to be a visionary
and my mom has been able to bethat and that's how she's lived
her life but also to be able toknow what she liked and what she
didn't like Because of her mom.
I'll give you one example Hermom stayed in her marriage that
(33:52):
was abusive because of herchildren, but through that
process, my mom learned that ifshe ever found herself in that
situation, she would leave themarriage for the sake of her
children.
So that was one aspect.
The second aspect was reallyaround being clear around what
you want.
My mom, when the schools in1986 fell apart in the townships
(34:15):
In her mind, I don't rememberthat.
Yeah, it was crazy In her mindand it didn't work to take me to
the rural areas.
It didn't work, couldn't fetchthe water from the river, I'm
sorry, anyway.
So she literally said toherself I want the best.
That's all she said to herself.
I want the best school for mykids.
(34:37):
Yeah, and she was a nurse,didn't earn much and single mom
of two children, and she endedup at the school that I was at,
you know, and of all the schoolsyou know that she took me.
I had to write these entryexams and apparently I didn't do
(35:01):
well in any of them except forthe one that I went to, which
was the most expensive of all ofthem.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
It was just like ah, she worked, that lady Exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So I mean, I just think that you know she taught
us such amazing lessons aroundbeing firm, around mindset,
around fighting for what isright.
For instance, my mom choseeducation above marriage at that
age because those were herchoices.
She was like no, I want tostudy, I want to finish my
(35:28):
metric and you can imagine whereour lives would be I don't know
if it would be born, but anyway, but where our lives would be
had she made different decisions.
So I'd love to just spend sometime with her and understand who
she was and thank her for themulti-generational impact that
she's had in our lives.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
That's great.
So if people want to work withyou, invest in your business,
buy some products.
Where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, you know we are on at Dignify Afro beauty on
our social media so they can dm,they can phone, they can email
amanda.
Dignify afro beauty does heretoday.
We are completely open, opendoors and willing to work with
anyone who can transform notonly our business but the the
vision that we have for ourcountry and our women and men.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And that is all from me today.
Thank you, Amanda, for sharingyour story and, of course, I
appreciate that you've listenedto this episode.
If you like it, please sharewith a friend or someone who
would find it useful andinspirational.
I'm Kutlonos Kosanarichi anduntil next time, please do take
(36:38):
good care.
Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers.
I'm your host, GuguanosKosanarichi.
My guest today isJohannesburg-based haircare
entrepreneur Amanda Sibulai.
Her brand, Dignify Afro Beauty,has been growing in leaps and
bounds over the past five yearsand having an impact beyond
providing products that go onyour hair that go on your hair.
Amanda tells us about hervision for this brand and how
(00:25):
she thinks it can contribute tothe growing self-love movement
in post-apartheid South Africa.
She shares her own hair journey, how she launched and grew out
her product line, and the pathto being available online and
slowly expanding to localretailer stores.
Our conversation is bothinstructive and informative and,
(00:46):
as always, we keep thingscandid.
So, without further ado, let'sget into the story of Dignify
Afro Beauty and its founder,Amanda Sibulai.
Let's start with what it isthat you do as a company, what
you do in the company and whatit means to you on a deeper
level.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Wow, dignify Afro Beauty has become literally my
fourth child.
I have three children and it isso dear to me.
So what we do and you know,really, it's in the name, right
we dignify African beauty.
And I think for us for a verylong time, have really never
took a stand on defining our ownbeauty and not let the Western
(01:30):
environment to define our beauty.
We have definitely focused onthe Afro beauty, which is really
the natural hair piece which wecompletely believe is the
essence of our identity.
So, as Dignify Afro Beauty, wedignify natural hair beauty and
we believe that that translatesinto overall self-love.
(01:51):
What I do in the business I'mthe founder of Dignify Afro
Beauty I always say togetherwith my two daughters, because
everything we've done to startthis off has been together with
them and all the recipes we'vetried have tried on my hair and
on their hair.
They've even inspired some ofthe products themselves.
(02:11):
So, yeah, no, really, that'swhat I do and that's what
Dignify Afro Beauty is about.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, let's talk about your products.
So what do you offer out therefor all these naturalistas?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So we literally right now have about I'll call 10
products in the market and weoffer this one product called a
pre-wash.
In America they call it apre-poo, so we've called it a
pre-wash and this is reallyamazing because it's got a
garlic, it's got an onion thatreally helps with antifungal
(02:46):
properties.
It helps address the bacteriathat causes dandruff and it's
really awesome during, let's say, you've had braids for a very
long time.
You're undoing it.
Right, put this on as you undo,it will completely detangle
your hair.
It will cleanse your hair,literally deal with that
bacteria.
By the time you wash your hairor go to a hair salon, your hair
(03:08):
is completely moist, detangledand easy to look after.
We also have a shampoo andwe've got two types of shampoos.
So we've got this shampoo butalso a two-in-one shampoo and
conditioner and this is reallyawesome for your wash day Also
is great for let's.
You have your long-termprotective style.
You can use this while you'vegot your braids on, when you've
(03:30):
got your twists, when you've gotyour cornrows.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So that's the combo, the washer conditioner, washer
conditioner.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So that's really awesome.
And then we have two types ofconditioners.
So one is your normal hairconditioner that you would use
as part of just your wash day.
We also have a deep mask, whichis really your hair treatment
to keep your hair healthy.
We also then have a live-inconditioner, so after you've
(03:58):
washed and you've treated, itmoisturizes our hair naturally,
but also you can use it with wethair or dry hair.
It also revitalizes your curls,one of the biggest issues I
think that we battled with whenwe thought about Dignify for
Beauty was.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, I was wondering about that.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, was really to moisturize our hair.
We just found that whateverproduct we used, it was very
difficult to keep your hairmoisturized longer than the day
you applied that product.
And the inspiration of startingDignify Afro Beauty started
actually when I turned 40.
And I decided to cut my hairshort, and that was because my
(04:39):
girls had actually grown up withtheir hair either relaxed or in
braids and had never seen me inparticular with short hair like
yourself you know, um, and so Iwas like I need my girls to
know that you look beautiful,irrespective of what type of
hair you have.
That was really it.
It was not.
I want to start a natural haircompany, you know um and then I
wore my hair naturally for, youknow, two to three, four years.
(05:02):
Then I decided, okay, I want togrow this hair.
And as I journeyed to figureout how do you grow natural hair
, I realized it was a verydifficult journey At the time we
didn't have any of theseAmerican products in South
Africa literally had to definethis out myself.
I navigated the space.
(05:22):
It was extremely painful, untilI got to the point where I was
like, okay, let me just startcooking some stuff in my house.
And as I started really makingyour avocado oils, your carrot
oil, I mean, I think my familywas like there goes our grocery
bill right, and then, you know,olive oil.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You can imagine how expensive olive oil is.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So we literally did.
I mean it got to the pointwhere my helper knew when she
makes rice she has to put ricewater on the side for me.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I would find rice water in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And I think the reason I decided to go that
route was because I had triedwhatever I could find in the
market at the time and nothingwas working.
And if it was working, it wasfor a day, and then the next day
it's a different scenario.
And if it was working, it wasfor a day, and then the next day
it's a different you knowdifferent scenario.
I even had American friends atthe time that I also engaged.
I'm like guys, what are youusing?
They told me what products arewe using?
I shipped some of thoseproducts.
They did not work, you know.
(06:13):
And so I realized that there'ssomething really different about
our hair and all no one hasactually thought about how to
help our hair stay moisturized.
And literally even today, whenpeople find my products with all
these American products inSouth Africa, they always say
where have you been all my life?
Oh, that's so cool, honestly,honestly, and yeah, and I mean
(06:36):
one of our best products that wemoisturize with is this shine
lotion.
It is such a very simpleproduct that you put on your
hair every day, every morning,your hair in the morning.
It keeps your hair nice andshiny, but also moisturized.
Works for boys works for girls,works for teens, works for men
and women.
The second thing we realizedwas to also stop breakage.
Our hair breaks a lot, not onlybecause it's prone to breaking,
(07:01):
but also we don't know the haircare routine of how to gently
look after our hair.
So these products, they stopbreakage and people are really
blown away by that.
But then we also teach how tothen look after your hair.
Fingers are your best comb andjust how gentle one needs to be,
Because I think we grew upthinking our hair is tough, I
(07:21):
can handle anything.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Actually our hair is the most brittle.
Actually, let's get mostbrittle.
Yeah, actually, let's get intothat.
Because I'm wondering aboutyour hair journey.
Right, you have this part whichled to dignify Afro beauty.
Yeah, but before that, right,you had this period where you
are relaxing, braiding, and Iremember that was a requirement
in high school.
But you know before that,growing up, before entering into
(07:47):
these multiracial or majoritywhite spaces, what was your
experience with your own naturalhair?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
True, actually, I remember being in, you know,
growing up in lower primary.
We had my cousin.
She was the only one.
She was older than me, was theonly one who knew how to plait
our hair, and so literally onSundays, sundays she would be
the one plaiting our hair, asnatural as could be, and I just
remember how tight she wouldmake my plaits.
(08:10):
I think she hated plaiting ourhair.
You know you wouldn't be ableto smile for days.
Yeah, you know.
Number one.
Number two I remember us using,you know, that iron comb that
you put on the stove you know,to straighten our hair.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Silk press.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yes, I remember that and I mean, you know that's what
it was.
It was Vaseline, it wasglycerine that we used on our
hair, and I never had to thinkabout literally relaxing my hair
.
I think when I started relaxingmy hair I was about 16, which
was the time I was actually atthe multiracial school, but most
(08:46):
of the times and also braidingwas not allowed while I was in
junior school because it was aluxury.
It was expensive to put hairpieces on your hair, but only
when I was in high school thosethings started being introduced
in my life.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So there is a lost tradition there right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Because hair care is a community ritual and that's
where we find ourselves in ourown bathrooms trying to play,
and you know formulators, etc Iknow one of the things I really
want to do is to investigatethose old ways of how we looked
after hair, because one of thethings you see now a lot of us
as black women, especially insouth africa, are battling with
(09:24):
alopecia, are battling withthinning hair and it is
sometimes related to how we'velooked after hair, with the
different hair pieces, differentwigs, but I really want to know
how they got their hair.
Beautiful, big afros, remember,and for me that's the health,
that's the healthy hair no,absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
you say you worked with your daughters on this, so
tell me about how you eventuallystarted actually selling to
people, to the public.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah so.
So I tried these on the stoveproducts on my hair and for
first year and I was like I wasblown away.
I was blown away by how my hairresponded and how moisturized
it felt and how it startedgrowing.
The second year I said to mygirls girls, listen, can I
please try these on you?
Because I might be crazy, Imight be thinking these things
work but they actually don'twork for other people.
(10:12):
Can I try these on?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
you.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And literally for that second year, there was, you
know, willing, and we tried andwe realized how different our
three hair types were and howthe different products worked.
On this one I didn't work onthat one, and my girls one of
them is very much interested,you know she's she would make
her own products herself, like,oh, don't worry, I don't need
your, your pre-wash I've made myown, you know?
Okay, yeah, I know Right, andum, and so all the mayonnaise
(10:37):
and the eggs and everything,anyway, so, um.
So then, after I realized itworks on them as well, I thought
to myself wait a minute, thisneeds to be professionalized,
right.
And so I looked for amanufacturer that was willing,
or be willing, to take myrecipes and manufacture these
products for me.
(11:03):
I found a manufacturer that waswilling to literally take in
some of my ingredients, eventest them and create these
amazing products.
So this hair shine lotion wasour first one and one of the
things it has in here, which wasmy requirement.
I said I need some amazing herbthat you only get in India
included, and I literallybrought it to the manufacturer.
They created this whole productfor me.
Even today, I'm always testingnew products, but I start at
home.
I start at home, I test and Isee, and then I'm able to send
the recipes to them to say thisis what I want in this product.
(11:24):
I'll put it in so that's how ithappened.
And then we're able to sell, andthis product was quite
interesting because it was myfirst one.
So the minute I started selling, I think where I realized there
was value was when peoplewanted to buy it again, when I
started having repeat purchases.
This, of all of our products,this is the one that I think we,
we, we replenish three to fourtimes a year because it just
(11:45):
goes, and we're very gratefulfor that and very grateful for
our repeat clients that providesuch great reviews on the use of
our products.
So we're very grateful for that?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Hey, it's Shades and Layers.
And my guest today is founderof the South African hair care
brand Dignify Afro Beauty,amanda Sibulai.
Up next, we get into thepracticalities of how to run a
hair care brand her company'smilestones so far, as well as
how she balances her full-timejob with the demands of running
(12:21):
a small business the demands ofrunning a small business.
Before we get into the salesside of things, let's start with
the sourcing of youringredients.
How does that work for you?
What are some of?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
the challenges that you come across or advantages
being a small batch producer.
Yeah, it is not easy, so thegood thing is that when I'm at
home I don't need, obviously,large amounts of testing the
ingredients at first, so I usevery small volumes in terms of
those individual ingredients.
We do have amazing companieshere that sell natural either
dried leaves or dried spicesthat I'm able to purchase from.
(12:59):
One of the thingsfuturistically that I've
realized was that actually Iwould love to own the whole
value chain and actually startplanting my own ingredients.
So things like your avocados,things like my herbs that I use,
the spices that we use, I'dlove to be able to have a farm,
you know, so that I'm able toown that whole value chain.
(13:21):
But for now, I source them, andthere is one that I really can
you can only find in India.
One of the things that we'veengaged with our agriculture
department or minister is to saywhat are the processes of
bringing some of these plants,that we can farm them in South
Africa.
So it's for sure those are someof the things I'd love to be
able to do, but for now I sourcelocally.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Okay, that's great.
How do you find thesecollaborators?
Because it's quite a step fromformulating in your kitchen to
formalizing the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, I mean, it was really knocking on doors.
Hey, you knock and you knockand you knock and you like,
listen, I have this.
And you know you can imagine,like female young, who are you?
What are you looking for?
We can't help you.
You know you can imagine, likefemale, young, who are you?
What are you looking for?
We can't help you.
You know, and that's what youreceive A lot of just no's and
no's and no's.
You know, to the point, when Ifound this particular individual
(14:15):
and remember at the time, youdon't even have high amounts of
capital to really invest in thiswhole thing I can't buy a whole
ton of a product, you know andI needed a manufacturer that
will understand my financialstanding and that I'm really
looking to grow slowly and butsurely.
And it was very difficult, I'mnot going to lie, and I feel it
(14:36):
was very challenging for anyblack females, I suppose, or
SMMEs and entrepreneurs, to justenter this market and be able
to find people that will believein your dream and be able to
support you in implementing yourdream to the next level.
But, to be honest, I did pray alot, I did fast, a lot for this
business and I still do.
I meditate a lot because I needsome guidance, I need direction
(14:58):
and throughout all the stagesof the business, I feel like
I've been quite I don't know ifI want to call it lucky, but I
really appreciate the responsesand the answers that God has
given me through this journey.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Luck plays a role, but how did you raise the
capital?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Honestly from my pockets right.
Um, honestly from my pockets,right, it was really because you
know it was.
It's not a business that youjust jump out of your corporate
job and be like this is what I'mgoing to do full time, when
you've got a bond to pay andchildren to take to private
school.
You know so your costs are here, your revenues.
There is no way, you know.
(15:42):
So continued work full timefrom a corporate perspective and
then whatever additional extraincome I could, I invested in my
business and I continue to dothat.
Now the business is starting toliterally almost sustain itself
.
It's not there yet, but it'sreally awesome.
(16:03):
Looked for funding here andthere and quite a lot of the
funding for SMMEs.
I find you see a lot ofcompanies willing and able, but
when you think about it it's aninterest.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I'm like look, I'm not ready to get into debt to
run a business.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So we're at the point now where we're just like
listen, we're going to run it asfast as our income allows us,
but we are not going to breakthe bank, nor are we going to
get ourselves into debt.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, so slow productivity is the philosophy.
So what are the big milestonesfor you so far?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Wow, so big milestones for us.
Definitely the product range,because after we had the first
product out we realized that wecouldn't really launch big
without having a whole range.
I only sold to people that Iknew at the time, but being able
to have the whole range oflooking after your hair has been
really amazing.
So the fact that you couldliterally it will before you
(17:06):
wash, while you wash, treat yourhair and then on-go daily hair
care.
So that was a great milestonefor us.
The second milestone hasdefinitely been being able to
get your basics in place right.
Your website, with e-commerceenabled you know getting sales
on the website, you know creditcard payments that was really a
huge milestone for us is enabledyou know, getting sales on the
website, you know credit cardpayments that was really a huge
milestone for us.
(17:27):
And then, thirdly, being ableto just get onto social media
and understand how social mediaworks is something that we're
still learning, but the factthat we're on social media and
people know us, people are like,oh, I think I've seen you, I
think I've seen you know, sothat's really exciting.
And then, fourthly, just beingon take a lot.
It was a okay, so you'redistributing that nice I am
(17:47):
distributing through take a lotand just the process of getting
on to take a lot was you.
It was overwhelming.
You know the technical skillsthat are required to just enable
your product through thatplatform and being able to
create operational processes tomake sure you meet their
deadline.
Because the minute you get theorder you have to make sure you
meet their deadline.
Because the minute you get theorder you have to make sure it
arrives at take a lot within acertain time and if you miss
(18:08):
that SLA you get kicked out.
So being able to create thoseprocesses in the background has
been really amazing.
So those are great milestonesfor us.
What we're looking forward tois definitely being on the
retail space.
Okay, okay, so that's whereyou're going.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
We've looked at everything and knocked on quite
a few of these doors, yourclicks, your discounts, and what
we've realized, and with thesupport and the advice of one of
the big banks in South Africa,IDC, a big funder- was look I
think, rather than goingstraight into retail right now,
rather slow down, rather focuson just growing your market as
(18:44):
best as you can, as the minuteyou get into retail then you've
got other targets to achieve.
You must make sure that yourproduct gets sold.
If it doesn't get sold, youmust buy it back from the
retailer.
So where we are now is just weactually are okay not being on
the retail.
You know we are doing smallerretailers, so we are in smaller
(19:04):
retailers.
We've got two hair salons thatuse our products.
We've got one small pharmacynot far from where we stay.
We literally got an email aweek ago from a retailer that's
looking that actually said hey,people are coming to our
retailer asking for yourproducts.
Can you come?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh, that's interesting, that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, so that's really encouraging.
No, I mean, we think that theright time will come for us to
be able to pivot To do itcountrywide?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, but you know you say we.
Is it still your daughters ordo you have other members of the
team?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
For me, it's still my daughters, you know, still my
daughters.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Not good for them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So they guide me, they help me.
And then I've got anadministrator, a client service
administrator, that works tohelp with basic things like
making sure we've got thecontainers, making sure we've
got orders we do a lot ofmarkets as well Make sure we
prepare for the markets and justbasic administration type of
work.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So I've got someone that I hire that does that tell
me about the hiring process,because your first hire is super
important.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I'm on my third oh my goodness, I can't.
I can't, guys, you know so.
I mean you can imagine that Iwork full time.
You know so I need, when I sayI want to hire them, I say
you're here to run my businessfull-time and run it like it's
your business and sometimes youget good ones, sometimes you get
(20:35):
really bad ones with such badattitudes, you know.
So, yeah, I think it's a verysad situation that we're in.
Honestly, I think that basicwork ethic it's not about the
complex job, it's just very sadsituation that we're in.
Honestly, I think that basicwork ethic it's not about the
complex job, it's just a basicwork ethic.
Your work starts at eight,arrive at eight your boss told
you to do x, do x, don't do xminus one, like I don't
(20:55):
understand that and it's basicbasic tasks, so I am I am losing
my mind's very sad, honestly,because where do these
youngsters, where are they goingto get hired?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Oh, young people, I'm sorry.
I mean, I was once a youngperson running a business, so
I'm just like I'm very wary ofcriticizing, but everybody
complains about the same thing.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
What are we going to do?
And these are our children,Like in fairness, these are our
children and I'm just thinkingto myself what can we do?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
This is Shades and Layers, and we're coming up to
the final part of ourconversation with Amanda Sibulai
.
Let's now talk big picture andget into the Shades and Layers
rapid fire.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So what role do you think Dignify Afro Beauty plays
in the South African beautylandscape?
I really think I think we playbigger than the beauty landscape
, right and for us, we believethat our whole vision and
mission is to make sure thatpeople start loving themselves.
And if you think about hair andthe history of South Africa,
(22:10):
our hair was used against us.
There was a time during theapartheid regime.
At the time they used a penciltest on our hair to determine if
you were black and if thatpencil didn't fall off your hair
, you were black.
Determine if you're black andif that pencil don't fall off
your hair, you are black.
You know, and being black was,you can imagine, deemed to be a
(22:34):
very negative identity and ourgoal is to eradicate that trauma
that was placed upon us.
And we believe that by justletting people teach and let
them love their hair the way itis translates in them loving
themselves and who they are andhow beautiful they are and how
black and beautiful they are.
So for us, it's not just, it'snot really about beauty.
(22:56):
It's more than just reallybeing able to drive that
self-love back into our societyand just let people know you are
beautiful the way you are andno one should define that for
you.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I mean, it sounds like you're running a busy
operation.
How do you keep that center andfocus when the busyness of
running a business takes over?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, you know one of the things I and a lot of
people ask me that because I doquite a lot within this 24 hours
that we have in a day but onething that I've learned is to
compartmentalize my time.
So I know, between this timeand this time, I'm doing my
corporate job.
Between this time and this time, I do my business, and my
Saturdays, my weekends, are myweekends for me to do things
(23:39):
like my business, and that's whyI hire someone during the week
that they manage the customerservice piece.
I've got a contractor thatlooks after the development of
the website and then also, youknow, with all these AI tools as
well as the automation ofsocial media, it makes it a lot
easier because then I candedicate a weekend to literally
think about the social mediastrategy and design the content,
(24:03):
and then it gets postedautomatically on the system on
the days that I want it to beposted.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So there's also the regulatory side of things.
You have to make sure yourproducts are safe.
You have to get them tested.
What are some of theadjustments you've had to make
or any challenges that have comeyour way in that process?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
We've actually been quite privileged to be part of
the Consumer Goods Council, andwithin the Consumer Goods
Council they have EntrepreneurSupplier Development Arm, and so
we've been part of that andthey've really been amazing at
educating and teaching us aroundproduct development and
management and making sure thatwe are compliant.
So through that process, we'vebeen able to get our products
(24:43):
officially tested, get a testingresults and test certificates
so that's really been amazingand also being able to get
barcodes, which is reallycritical and important labeling
of your products.
You can't get into retailwithout a barcode.
So, and even within the barcodespace, there's elements of
(25:04):
compliance that you need toadhere to.
So we've been really exposed tothe whole value chain as well
as the compliance requirementsof each of these products.
There's the next level in termsof all of that process is
understanding the compliance ofshipping internationally, and
that's what we're starting tofigure out.
We've had literally clientsasking us please, can I have
your product?
And the minute we have to ship,obviously there's a whole other
(25:26):
requirement that we need toadhere to, so that's something
that we're working on now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, I don't even ask friends anymore, it's just
like, okay, it's way tooexpensive.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, but it's great to have Amazon here, so we're
excited about it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, so okay, has that helped in any way?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, that's my project for December.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
You're going to be busy, then I'm looking forward
to unpack that.
Okay, that's great.
I look forward to seeing yourproducts on this side.
That'll's great.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I look forward to seeing your product on this side
.
That'll be great, yay, so whatdo you think has been the most
fulfilling part of yourentrepreneurial journey so far?
Wow, I think it till today.
The most fulfilling for me arecomments and pictures I get from
our clients.
I just want to cry when aclient you know so, one of the
clients that I have.
I worked with her at the currentjob and she's like Amanda.
I heard that you've got naturalhair products my child's hair.
(26:23):
I'm about to relax it.
I don't know what to do with it.
I said to her wait, just trythese products.
So I gave her literally, Ithink, a shine lotion and, most
probably, oil.
She tried these products withina week.
She's like Amanda what is this?
I mean, she's been using it, Ithink, now for six months and
this week still she sends me apicture.
(26:45):
Amanda, look at your daughter'shair, look at my, you know, and
the child loves her afro.
The child loves her hair.
For me, that's the mostfulfilling when these young
children love their hair the wayit is.
I have a little salon chairthat every so often I get a
chance to play around with theseyoung children's hair and we
(27:06):
speak.
We speak about how beautifultheir hair is and how it shrinks
and why shrinkage is soimportant and how they can do
anything with it's the only typeof hair that can transform and
look like any other type of hairright, so you can take it from
a kink to a curly to a straight.
The other hair type can neverbe a kink.
(27:28):
They can never revert to ourstate, yet we can revert to all
the other states.
How beautiful is is that it'sgorgeous, it's gorgeous.
And having those conversationsfor me has been the most
fulfilling, fulfillingexperience.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great, that's really
really great.
So you basically want to createa legacy company, or would you
be interested if L'Oreal came toyou and offered you a buyout?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You know we've had this discussion with my husband
a lot.
You know he's like no, I mean,consider it, consider it.
You know, I think for me I'llbe very conflicted.
I'm not going to lie.
I'll be absolutely conflictedbecause I think for me I don't
know if you can translate mypassion and the vision of this
business to someone else, unless, of course, they're willing to
(28:20):
buy.
But I can still run the brandand continue driving what it
stands for.
So not L'Oreal, but I findthese company aggregators yeah,
sure.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So do you get any kind of support from other women
who are working with brands inthis space?
What's your mentorship andeducation looking like in here?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, it is not easy because obviously you can
imagine that we are competingagainst each other, so there's
no one who's going to be sittingaround and guiding and you know
, and advising you.
So I found great mentorship inum, the consumer goods council.
I'm on audio books quite a lotbecause you know time to sit and
(29:02):
read is actually very limited.
When I'm in my car, when I'm,you know, doing my my morning
meditation, I have opportunitiesto listen to audio, so I'm
going through that, learning howto do that.
My husband is an entrepreneurand he's been running his
business for 24 years, so he'sum provides me quite good, good
guidance in terms of, um, whatto do and what not to do.
Um, yeah, so if there's anyother ideas that you have there
(29:26):
of who could mentor me, I wouldbe open to it.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So now we've come to the part where we get to know
you a little bit more, and it'sthe shades and layers rapid fire
.
So first question is what wouldyou call your memoir and why um
?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I would call it.
She came and left with impactokay, and why is that?
I think for me, um, you know,when I turned 40, I looked at my
life, I looked back and Ithought, yo, I spent the first
40 years all about me, me, me,me, me, and which was right,
right, because then I had tofocus on my education, my job,
(30:07):
my, you know exactly yeah, and Ithought you're doing yeah
exactly, you know.
But I look back and I thought,no, the next 40 years, how could
I spend just all being about me, me, me.
What am I giving back?
What am I giving back to theworld?
And I feel like you know, Ireally want to do that.
I want to be able to provide animpact.
I want to change someone's life, even if it's just a little bit
(30:30):
of it or a little aspect.
So, for me, I want to make animpact and I would call it that
Okay, because the impact I madefor me was not only in the hair
business.
I also started a nonprofitafter I turned 40, and that
focuses on just being able togive back, you know, to my
hometown, soweto.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
What nonprofit it's called, first Things First and
we provide extra lessons andtutoring and Saturday schools to
a township school or highschool and remedial English
lessons.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, we've been running it now since 2016.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And it's been also quite fulfilling.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Oh, amanda, you're so inspiring.
This is so great, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Thank you and you're so inspiring.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
This is so great, thank you.
Thank you, and you look sohappy I am, you know.
I'm so grateful.
That is so great it's lovely.
I love it.
I love it, thanks.
So if you had to turn your lifestory into a movie, who would
play the lead actress?
If you had to turn your lifestory into a movie, who would
play the lead actress,interestingly, I think.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know, I think I couldn't think of anyone else
but my two daughters.
To be honest, oh good, are theyyour mini-me twins?
But no, the thing is, they knowme, but they know different
sides of me.
You, the one will act they'refirm.
You know strict, um, you know,because she's actually like that
(32:01):
.
And then the other one wouldact the soft.
Uh, you know giving to everyone, never getting anything back.
You know, miserable and sad andcries all the time for little
things.
You know, and I can see myselfin both of them.
It's so interesting how they,each one of them, have taken
different aspects of my, of me.
I think they would really actme the best way, but you'd have
(32:24):
to use both of them because okay, great, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And then, finally, which famous black woman or dead
would you invite to dinner, andwhy?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
This is going to sound very different and I can't
say famous, but the one blackwoman I'd love to invite for
dinner, dead or alive, would bemy mother's mom.
Okay, life would be my mother'smom.
Okay, I had never met her and,um, and she left my mom or died
when my mom was 12, and thethings that she taught my mom in
(33:06):
that those first 12 years havehad a multi-generational impact,
you know, and and I don't know,you know because I've
personally benefited from her Iwould love to meet her.
I'd love to have her for dinner, right, I'd love to understand.
How did she know what she'sknown?
And one of the biggest lessonsthat have helped us as a family
(33:30):
on the back of this black womanthat I've never met has been
just having a positive mindsetand being able to be a visionary
and my mom has been able to bethat and that's how she's lived
her life but also to be able toknow what she liked and what she
didn't like Because of her mom.
I'll give you one example Hermom stayed in her marriage that
(33:52):
was abusive because of herchildren, but through that
process, my mom learned that ifshe ever found herself in that
situation, she would leave themarriage for the sake of her
children.
So that was one aspect.
The second aspect was reallyaround being clear around what
you want.
My mom, when the schools in1986 fell apart in the townships
(34:15):
In her mind, I don't rememberthat.
Yeah, it was crazy In her mindand it didn't work to take me to
the rural areas.
It didn't work, couldn't fetchthe water from the river, I'm
sorry, anyway.
So she literally said toherself I want the best.
That's all she said to herself.
I want the best school for mykids.
(34:37):
Yeah, and she was a nurse,didn't earn much and single mom
of two children, and she endedup at the school that I was at,
you know, and of all the schoolsyou know that she took me.
I had to write these entryexams and apparently I didn't do
(35:01):
well in any of them except forthe one that I went to, which
was the most expensive of all ofthem.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
It was just like ah, she worked, that lady Exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So I mean, I just think that you know she taught
us such amazing lessons aroundbeing firm, around mindset,
around fighting for what isright.
For instance, my mom choseeducation above marriage at that
age because those were herchoices.
She was like no, I want tostudy, I want to finish my
(35:28):
metric and you can imagine whereour lives would be I don't know
if it would be born, but anyway, but where our lives would be
had she made different decisions.
So I'd love to just spend sometime with her and understand who
she was and thank her for themulti-generational impact that
she's had in our lives.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
That's great.
So if people want to work withyou, invest in your business,
buy some products.
Where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, you know we are on at Dignify Afro beauty on
our social media so they can dm,they can phone, they can email
amanda.
Dignify afro beauty does heretoday.
We are completely open, opendoors and willing to work with
anyone who can transform notonly our business but the the
vision that we have for ourcountry and our women and men.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And that is all from me today.
Thank you, Amanda, for sharingyour story and, of course, I
appreciate that you've listenedto this episode.
If you like it, please sharewith a friend or someone who
would find it useful andinspirational.
I'm Kutlonos Kosanarichi anduntil next time, please do take
(36:38):
good care.
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