March 31, 2025 • 33 mins
This is the first part of a two-part conversation with renowned South African fashion designer Palesa Mokubung. In this conversation, she shares her 20-year journey with Mantsho by Palesa Mokubung, the fashion brand she founded after working as an intern at another iconic South African fashion house, Stoned Cherrie.
This episode is both a celebration and a walk down memory lane with Palesa and here are some of the topics we discussed during our conversation:
• Founded Mantsho without formal education, working for seven years before hitting a ceiling
• Returned to school at 30, studying alongside teenagers to formally train in fashion design
• Describes education as transformative, bringing focus, technical knowledge, and business structure
• Collaborated with H&M in 2019
• Uses authentic South African cultural elements in designs, from specific color palettes to layering techniques
• Defines success as making a visible impact on African lives
• Attending trade show in Paris as a first step in global expansion for Mantsho
• Values sustainability and conscious production in fashion
• Maintains an informal "board of directors" to guide her in her business decisions
Keep an eye out for the second and final part of this conversation. Subscribe to the Shades and Layers newsletter on shadesandlayers.com or follow wherever you get your podcasts.
LINKS AND MENTIONS
Shweshwe (Seshoeshoe) - Traditional Bashoto printed colorful fabric
Stoned Cherrie - Iconic and seminal post-Apartheid South African fashion brand inspired by African aesthetics, as well as 50s and 60s urban African style with echoes of the Harlem Renaissance as seen in Janet Jackson's 'Got 'Til It's Gone' video
H&M Advert controversy - In 2018, the Swedish fast fashion brand faced a backlash over a racist advert featuring a Black child model wearing a sweatshirt that read "Coolest Monkey In The Jungle"
Amapostoli - United Apostolic African Church known for its iconic blue and white uniforms.
NEWSLETTER, stay in the loop and subscribe to our newsletter
SUPPORT this work so that we can keep it free. Become a MONTHLY SUPPORTER
LISTEN ON Apple and Spotify
FOLLOW US ON Instagram and Facebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kutloano Skosana (00:02):
And then listen to this.
I was pregnant with my firstdaughter so I thought, okay,
I'll take the meeting.
But H&M had been on everyone'sradar because a couple
of months, or less than a yearbefore it was in the hot water,
I cringed a little bit.
I mean, I think that Maxhosa isdoing really, really good.
Before it was like, oh, do Ihave to stay up to work, whereas
(00:27):
after school it was like, okay,if I don't stay up, then we
don't have work.
Palesa Mokubung (00:33):
Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers.
I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci host, , and this is the first part
of a two-part conversation.
My guest is renowned SouthAfrican fashion Palesa Mokubung,
, founder of the brand Mantsho, which she started 20 years ago
.
Yes, 20 years in business, sothat officially makes her a
legend.
Her journey to this milestoneincludes establishing a solid
(00:57):
business, winning severalindustry awards and some high
profile South Africancollaborations, and most notably
notably her internationalcollaboration with the Swedish
fast fashion brand H&M.
Unfortunately, soon after thatcollaboration, 2020 happened and
slowed down her internationalexpansion plans.
But now, with things almostback to normal and on Mantsho
(01:19):
20th year in business, we take alook back at where she came
from and the next steps she willbe taking to spread her wings
further.
But first let's find out whatbeing 20 years in business means
to Pales Mokubung.
Kutloano Skosana (01:35):
Late last year that I'd been in the 20-year
mark.
Right, it didn't cross my mind,because I had another baby when
the company was turning 20.
I was very pregnant with mysecond baby, with my daughter.
So I had all the pregnancybrain, if you want to call it.
I was very happy with it, withnot remembering the 20-year mark
(01:57):
, because then it meant I didn'thave to make a big deal out of
it.
But everyone else in my lifeand people who supported me and
been part of my journey werevery excited about it and I
didn't have time to really kindof figure out how I got there
Right, Just in simple terms,just in my own, like what were
(02:18):
the three steps?
Bam bam, bam, how did I getthere?
What does the 20-year markconsist of?
And I realized that it wasquite fractured in that I worked
after I left Stoned Cherrie andI was at Stoned Cherrie for, I
think, three years.
And when I was at StonedCherrie I had one year of
(02:38):
education, one year education inthe fashion field, and I
started working and interningand working really hard and
making my mark and creating myplace in the industry for that
three years.
After I left Stoned Cherrie.
I didn't take a break.
I won a competition and I went.
I traveled a little bit, Itraveled a little bit and then I
started my brand and I workedon it for about seven years.
(03:01):
So when the seven years that Iworked on my own after Stoned
Cherrie were without aqualification Right, I
accomplished many, many things.
(03:21):
I showcased all over the world.
Palesa Mokubung (03:23):
I created such a you know, a strong signature
and a very clear voice in thefashion industry and I carved
out a woman for myself, rightand a market for myself.
Yeah, yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (03:34):
But then I reached the ceiling after seven
years.
Because that's that happenswhen you have limited knowledge,
limited knowledge, you havelimited knowledge, formal
education in this technicalfield.
So I went to get my BA degreein fashion design.
Palesa Mokubung (03:53):
Right, where did you study?
Did you stay in Joburg or didyou travel abroad?
Kutloano Skosana (03:57):
No, I studied in Joburg.
I studied at Design School ofSA, which is now.
Palesa Mokubung (04:01):
Vega.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (04:03):
And yeah, so I took a break and I studied full
time and I wow I was not thatyoung anymore.
I mean, I was, I think I justturned 30, so I was studying
with 18 year olds and 19 yearolds yeah, yeah, I had a brand.
I was so competitive and I wasjust, it was just like, um, it's
just something that I needed todo.
(04:24):
You know, I felt like.
I felt like I owed myself atleast that much and also owed my
field, because I could tellthat this is what I want to do
for the long haul.
Palesa Mokubung (04:35):
And I didn't want to give myself any.
Kutloano Skosana (04:38):
I wanted to feel worthy.
I wanted to feel worthy of it.
Yeah, I wanted to feel worthyof it because I knew that it was
going to be, you know, a longyeah this was going to be your
life's work, kind of yeah.
It was going to be my life'swork, so I studied for three
years, I finished in 2014 andthen I started working again.
(04:59):
So what you're seeing is likenine, 10 years worth of a
business that was built againfrom scratch.
Palesa Mokubung (05:04):
Right, wow.
So what was the differencebetween the before and after?
Kutloano Skosana (05:11):
Oh my God, everything, oh my God.
The level of focus.
Can we talk about just thelevel of focus?
Palesa Mokubung (05:16):
Yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (05:17):
The level of focus, having a point of
reference, knowing that you willspend some nights, know up
because you're working, notbecause before it was like a oh,
do I have to stay up to work?
Whereas after school it waslike, okay, if I don't stay up
then we don't have work, thenwe're not working.
(05:39):
So the level of commitment, thelevel of respect that I had for
my field, the level ofunderstanding and I knew
technical things, I mean therewere subjects that I did not
know, that I was passionateabout I started paying more
focus into my fabrics.
That's when I started goinginto my own textiles.
(05:59):
You know, creating that kind ofcommunication between my
clients and I and being justbeing able to translate that
alone a milestone.
And then, having having had thetime to carve out a vision that
is based on research, in school, you learn about you.
You're forced to learn aboutthe top 10 designers in the
(06:23):
world and how they got there.
You know faculty history was soimportant, and before you know I
would read an article or two,but that was all the history I
had.
I was not really pinned down tolearn and be, you know, just
knowledgeable about my industry.
And, yeah, I did not know howbig the industry was.
Palesa Mokubung (06:44):
I think so.
It's quite a discipline, isn'tit?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, while you'restudying all these top designers
, who stands out to you?
Who do you want to modelyourself after?
Kutloano Skosana (06:55):
oh, you know, something very traumatic
happened when I was studying.
You know, that's when, uh,alexandra McQueen passed away.
So, yeah, that was definitely,that was definitely something
that stood out for me.
I was, I I had to really, youknow, dive into that world, into
into his world.
So I think that I I realizedhow intense, uh, the industry
(07:19):
can make a person and how, butalso how much choice we have in
allowing that to happen.
I think that McQueen enjoyedbeing intense.
So from that I learned to kindof find the balance.
I said, okay, I love what I do,but I also love myself, and if
(07:41):
I can find the balance betweencreating a healthy life for
myself and a healthy businesslife that can help myself and
other people, then I want to dothat.
So I was inspired not to belike anybody, but more to be
like myself more like myself.
Palesa Mokubung (07:59):
So how do you describe your brand Mantsho?
Kutloano Skosana (08:04):
Oh, my goodness, it's grown so much.
I mean, you must.
20 years, it's a long time tobe building something, and other
times it's at the tip of yourtongue, and other times it's at
the top of your head, and othertimes it lives in your heart,
and other times so I think I'vedescribed it in so many
different ways and I thinkthat's fine, you know, at
different phases of my life,yeah, but how I would describe
(08:26):
it now, or describe the woman,at least, she is a global woman.
She's a global woman who hasbuilt herself from scratch.
She's really built herself, youknow, piece by piece.
She is a wholesome woman who isinterested in the community
(08:47):
that she comes from.
She's a giver.
She is very driven, but she isvery humble and really, really
remembers where she comes from.
She values her culture, hertraditions.
She's authentic.
She's authentic, a global andauthentic woman.
That is something that you haveto work for.
It's something that you build.
It's like she's a project.
(09:08):
She's her own project, that'swho she is.
She's her number one project.
Palesa Mokubung (09:14):
Right.
So how do you reflect this in,let's say, the style of clothes?
How is it captured?
Kutloano Skosana (09:22):
You know, we are very bold people, we're very
loud, I mean, you might find,and sometimes loud is not in how
we dress, sometimes it's justin our personality and just in
our character as Africans.
And these are like qualitiesthat I would see from like a
(09:42):
woman that I admire from downthe road, who wears the best
jackets with a stretcher skirt,and she doesn't have a very
fancy job, but she she's able to.
You know, put the two togetherand from the village now called.
Palesa Mokubung (10:01):
Yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (10:01):
I reflect that by, first of all, our just
culture through the colors thatwe use.
Yeah, because we, when I thinkabout, you know, as South
Africans, very I think of adiverse, you know, right, a very
, very diverse nation.
So I think a lot of color and Ithat I'm not very shy to draw,
you know, to draw from.
(10:22):
If I think of a, you know, ared, it's like it's a zulu blood
red yeah, if I think of theroyal blue.
It's like I'm a postola royalblue and that's the color.
That's the mantu royal blue.
So when I go to print that'sthe, that the blueprint.
If we're looking for a blue,we're not going to see which
(10:43):
blue is trending now.
No, we go to the royal blue,the one that runs through the
Mantsho blood.
That's the one.
So it is about finding meaning.
I reflect it by finding meaningin the colors that we exude
ever so gracefully and wear everso gracefully as Africans, as
(11:04):
South Africans.
I expressed that through justour love for layering.
You know, if you think of asuture woman, she will wear
everything, everything.
(11:26):
She will wear her treasure, thefirst layer, everything she will
wear her treasure, the firstlayer, and then she will wear
the apron, and then she willwear the blanket on the shoulder
and then she will wear the headwrap, and then she will wear a
hat over the head wrap and thenlike if we do accessories.
(11:47):
we don't do one little bracelet.
We pack it.
Oh gosh, yeah, you know we packit up.
Oh gosh, yeah, I think about it.
In South Africa, we love tothrow things over our shoulders.
Maybe that is why I have a longline of collars that you can
just throw over your shoulder.
It's like it's a sign ofrespect for yourself, it is a
(12:08):
sign of just giving yourself.
You know the epilat, you knowit's a sign of pride.
And so it's those little, youknow little nuances that I take
from different cultures that Iincorporate in my designs.
Palesa Mokubung (12:30):
Yeah, hey, it's Shades and Layers, and I'm
speaking to South Africanfashion designer Palesa Mokubung
about her brand, Mantsho.
She attributes her success tobeing ready for any eventuality,
positive or negative, and shebelieves that this is what made
her collaboration with theglobal fast fashion brand H&M a
success.
Let's find out how thatcollaboration came about and how
(12:53):
everything unfolded.
Kutloano Skosana (12:56):
H&M came after I'd been in the industry for
about 15 years, so I'd had myhead down for quite a while,
first as an untrained designerand then a qualified designer,
and then a designer who is nowall about her business and is
building from dress to dress now, and I think they came in about
(13:16):
five years after I had gottenmy qualification and created
this new business.
I mean, I looked at my businessas a new business after.
Right, it felt like a newbusiness.
I spoke a different language, Ipresented it better, I packaged
.
I actually packaged my business, whereas before it was just
something that I loved, that Iwas just doing, but I had
(13:37):
started packaging my business.
So I think that what H&M waslooking for was the full package
.
They were looking for someone.
Yeah, they were looking for thefull package and I presented
that because I had had the focusto package my business and I
did it at the right time.
But how it came about is that II mean, they reached out to me
(14:00):
on Instagram.
Hey, oh, insta, it's not fancy.
I mean it's really not fancy.
It's so not fancy, but I thinkit was a WhatsApp.
Actually, I think it was aWhatsApp.
Someone sent me just an oddWhatsApp.
Hey, do you want to?
I work at H&M.
I'll be in Joburg next week.
Can we have a meeting?
No way, I promise you.
(14:22):
And then and then listen tothis I was pregnant with my
first daughter.
So I thought, okay, I'll, I'lltake the meeting.
But but H&M had been oneveryone's radar because the a
couple of months, or, you know,less than a year before it, it
(14:42):
year before it, it was in the inthe hot water.
Oh, there was a controversyaround it.
So I thought, you know, h&m, Ihad a.
I cringed a little bit to evenjust take a meeting with H&M,
because I know how I felt youknow about.
Palesa Mokubung (14:52):
It was the ad, yeah, the ad with the black kid,
yeah, but I was like okay, Iwas like, okay, it's just a
meeting.
Kutloano Skosana (14:59):
And then I went and they, you know, I met.
I met someone from the localteam and they expressed a
possible collaboration.
I had no idea what that looked.
I didn't even know that theywere doing those collaborations.
I learned then that they hadbeen having collaborations that
were very popular.
It was very short-lived.
It's very, it's very likepunchy collaborate like three
months.
Palesa Mokubung (15:20):
And they sell out immediately.
Kutloano Skosana (15:21):
Very limited stock, yeah, and they sell out
and then they move on.
So I took the meeting and Ididn't think much of it and and
there were follow up calls thatthe global team came to South
Africa still did not think muchof it, but what I loved about it
is that I was ready for it.
So anything that they asked forand they asked for, that they
asked for and they asked foreverything they asked for.
(15:42):
You know, financials for thelast, you know, three years,
five years.
They asked for everything theywanted I had at the press of a
button, literally at the pressof a button, and I did not know.
I've always known that obviouslyI'm special and I'm going to
have a moment.
I did not know when that momentwould be, and after 15 years,
(16:05):
you begin to think, oh, if it'sgoing to happen ever.
But by a moment, though, I meanlike a moment where you have
not for popularity, but to standfor something, to have an
opportunity to change people'sminds about something, to have
an opportunity to show them anew way of thinking.
And I think that's what thecollaboration did for me.
(16:27):
Is that, because it came aftersuch a controversy, I could
actually stand up and be likelisten, if I didn't do this
collaboration, someone elsewould have.
That's the first thing, but I'mglad that it's me, because
someone has to stand up and say,okay, so that has happened.
How do we move forward?
How do we move forward?
What did we want before this?
(16:49):
Can we go back to now?
You know those conversations.
It doesn't have to stop hereand it doesn't, and this is.
It's a big moment, you know,for the continent.
That's what I found when thenews broke out is that I thought
my people would be happy for me, but I realized that the whole
world, the very same world thatwas upset, the entire world that
(17:11):
was upset, the entire world wasnow so happy that this was
happening and I think that itjust symbolized just something
so incredibly good.
It symbolized second chances,first of all, deserved or not,
but it symbolized them.
I loved being a part of thatconversation.
That's one.
I also loved the fact that theychose me.
(17:34):
I had often felt like aunderground sort of, you know,
an underdog.
I had felt like an underdog andI loved that they did not go
for someone who was already wellknown, right, they went for
someone who was deserving andthey did the research because I
was deserving.
(17:55):
You know, I was the girl whostarted with Stoned Cherrie.
I was the girl who had been,who had lost everything, so they
could just start making onedress again.
And they sat down with me tohear and learn about those
stories.
But they also they knew so muchabout me when they came to me
it was very genuine.
(18:15):
Obviously this is not somethingthat people knew, but it is not
a relationship also that Iwould have gotten into if it was
not a good relationship.
Palesa Mokubung (18:25):
Yeah, so there was something authentic about
that interaction.
They were so sensitive.
Kutloano Skosana (18:30):
You know I was pregnant also, you must
remember, with my first baby andI'm 38 years old, so I could
have given up anything just tohave my baby.
So the fact that I could, youknow just my.
I wanted that more than Iwanted a break, right.
Palesa Mokubung (18:46):
But they came at the same time.
Kutloano Skosana (18:48):
So to have a company that and it's not just
them, I think it's a Swedenthing.
You know, it's a Swedishcompany company and I think it's
a.
Sweden thing that they are socaring when it comes to and so
kind when it comes to women, andyou know and oh yeah, I mean,
(19:09):
that's my experience.
Palesa Mokubung (19:11):
It's definitely my experience.
Yeah, I had basically birthingtwo kids.
Kutloano Skosana (19:16):
Yeah, my company was birthing the biggest
break, and I was having myfirst baby and it was such a
(19:37):
smooth process and I think it'sbecause the timing was perfect.
I love that they had huge, theyhad.
They had like such strictsustainability laws.
There was just so many thingsthat were aligned.
Eh, like it was just one ofthose um partnerships that were
really, really, really writtenin the stars.
Palesa Mokubung (19:56):
Yeah yeah, everything came together at the
right time oh that's nice,that's nice yeah but let's say,
let's look at other milestonesthat you've had, uh, during this
journey into the fashionbusiness.
Um, are there any, maybe twomore that stand out that have
made this journey worthwhile?
Kutloano Skosana (20:15):
Oh, my goodness, I think I've had.
I mean, I'm standing in myoffice and I'm looking at how
many two, four, six, eight I'mlooking at 10 fashion awards.
Palesa Mokubung (20:24):
Wonderful yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (20:26):
I have a few right and I'm just trying to see
which one kind of stands outfor me.
I mean, it's anything from.
Actually.
I mean, these are words thatjust now, just standing in my
office, but I, if I have tothink about them, I guess they
meant something to someone atsome point.
For me, some of theachievements that I'm very proud
of are not even here.
I can't even.
Yeah, they're not representedwith a, they don't have a
(20:50):
shining mark at the top of theshelf.
There are some cool projectsthat we've done, that I've, that
have meant a lot to me, thatare not, you know, largely
talked about.
Yeah, I mean I, I, I did awardrobe for coming to america.
That was really good, I did yeahum, I mean, that was, that was
(21:11):
big, actually, that really, thatwas really cool for me.
Palesa Mokubung (21:13):
That was quite good.
Kutloano Skosana (21:13):
It was cool for me because it was like a
little childhood dream, you know, coming through.
So it's something that tickledme.
Not really didn't really domuch for the world, didn't
really, but it tickled me.
I mean I would have to ask myteam.
There's so many things that Ido.
Let me just say this becauseI'm so passionate about what I
do do.
Let me just say this becauseI'm so passionate about what I
(21:35):
do For me.
If we make a jacket and it's asuccess, I'm like, oh my God,
I'm a winner.
But things that I guess couldmean something to the world is
that I've been on the Forbesstage.
You know I've given a.
I've been on the Forbes stage,forbes Women's Conference stage.
I think that I do a lot of workwith interns.
I love that Again not popularnot popular info?
(21:56):
Yeah, but I do.
I work with the school here andI've been taking interns for
the last maybe five years.
I take two to three interns ayear.
I train them and then I takenew ones and I love it.
It's done so much for so manyyoung people, something that's
very close to my heart, that Iwould have to send them to you.
I mean, I can't think of.
Palesa Mokubung (22:18):
No problem, yeah, I mean.
Kutloano Skosana (22:20):
I travel the world, I showcase my clothes,
but there's nothing glamorousabout it.
Sure, maybe I'm glamorous whenI'm doing it, but it's real work
.
Yeah, it's like it's me tryingto do it.
Maybe it's real work.
Yeah, yeah, it's like it's metrying to do it.
Maybe I'm glamorous when I'mdoing it, but it it is not.
It's not glamorous at all.
It's me really really trying tobuild a company that can feed
(22:42):
families, and that's what I'mvery, very proud of.
Yeah, Having been able tosustain my business for so long,
having workers that have beenwith me for 12 years, having
it's little things.
That's why I'm like it's notwhat you think.
Palesa Mokubung (22:58):
I know you want me to say no, no, no, I mean
whatever it means to you.
Actually, I am more aiming forthe things that are meaningful
to you.
You know it's things that meansomething to me.
Kutloano Skosana (23:10):
Showcasing all over the world is wonderful,
but it's a lot of work.
I'm about to do something thatI'm going to be very, very proud
of, though I'll tell you thatmuch because it's a dream I'm
doing a trade show in Paris.
Wonderful, and it's somethingI've always wanted to do, just
because it is important to openourselves up to the global
market, ourselves up to theglobal market.
(23:38):
I did H&M in 2019.
And then and I was reallylooking forward to doing a
global tour to all the topmarkets you know that the
collection reached.
It reached years and I was notable to everything shut down
2020, everything shut down 2021.
So I just I feel like no, it'sjust something that I wanted to
do and I kind of put that on theback seat a little bit and
(23:58):
allowed the world to do thechange that it needed to change,
because the world has changed.
it's not what it was 2019absolutely yeah, yeah or last
year yeah it's changed so muchand I I've just been watching
and learning new trades and I'mready to start attending and
kind of reaching out to theworld in a way that is current
(24:22):
yeah, doing business in acurrent way.
So I'm doing my first tradeshow next week in Paris and then
I've got another one later inthe month and I'm hoping for
more.
But it's all about the globalmarket.
Sure, it's all about takingit's all about globalizing the
brand.
Palesa Mokubung (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which brings me to the idea ofmaking it on a global stage for
an African designer.
I mean, we've seen a lot of,you know, accolades, lvmh, et
cetera.
So you know what's your take onthat?
When you say an Africandesigner has made it, what does
(25:00):
that look like?
And yeah, what does it mean forthe African continent, the
ecosystem on the African?
Kutloano Skosana (25:07):
continent.
Sure, when you say an Africandesigner has made it, what does
that look like?
I think it would mean differentthings for each designer.
I think when an Africandesigner has made, in my opinion
, if an African designer hasmade it, it would be if they
could carry.
I mean, I think that theMarcosa is doing really good.
I think that is a good exampleof what an African designer
(25:32):
making it looks like.
And I say this mainly for acouple of points.
One, they are a conscious brand.
They are very aware of theamount of work that they produce
and the waste that they produce, and they try to curb that as
(25:53):
much as they could.
Um, it's something that shouldbother more people, um, but I
don't think it does.
Just, waste in the fashionindustry is is a major.
I mean, I I traveled last yearto a recycling uh uh company in
portugal, not last two years ago, and I just I I still can't
(26:15):
everything that I saw there,just how much waste cause, just
as as the fashion industry.
So I cannot just imagine otherindustries.
So so for me to have that mindand to that, to have that as
like a core principle of of thebusiness, for me is like such a
great example of an Africanleader, creative leader one.
(26:38):
The other point is, obviously,you know employment, if you can
take people with you and employand provide employment for as
many people as you possibly can.
For me, that is an example ofan African designer who has made
(26:58):
it.
Making it on your own acrossthe seas and you are doing
something on your own is justliving a nice life.
That's not an African designermaking it.
An African designer making itis a designer that makes a
difference in the lives of otherAfricans.
Palesa Mokubung (27:19):
Great.
So that brings me to financingthis whole business.
You know you're going to atrade show.
We have a Department of Tradeand Industry.
You know I mean all of this.
No one's come to the party.
Yeah, hey, we have a Departmentof Trade and Industry.
And you know I mean all of this.
No one's come to the party girl.
Kutloano Skosana (27:36):
No one's come to the party.
Palesa Mokubung (27:37):
Okay, I was hoping you'd say something
different Just before you ask me.
Let me tell you the answer.
Kutloano Skosana (27:42):
Let me tell you the answer before you ask me
no one's come to the party.
Okay, we sent out the emailsand we also have, have, you know
, a day-to-day business to run,so you can't be chasing.
Sure, um, you send out what youcan to who you can.
You, you know the contacts arethere, you know the channels are
there, but if you're notgetting word on the other side,
you do it yourself.
That's why you have to be verysavvy with your money.
(28:05):
You always have to savesomething for a rainy day.
Um, as a as a business, um, as abusiness, as an entrepreneur,
you always have to havesomething for a rainy day,
because opportunities just canjust spring up on you and you
need to be able to do it.
So some of these opportunitiesare funded.
(28:25):
Obviously, you know that youare catered for, but it's like
sometimes like an 80-20situation Sure, so we will give
you, um, you will be able totrade, we'll cover those
expenses, we'll, you know,accommodations covered, but
you've got to fly yourself andget your collection there and
get your insurances and and itcan add up if you're not on, if
(28:48):
you're not ready for it, youwon't be able to do it.
So most of the time you'realone.
You're alone, you're doing thison your own.
That's why you have to have,that's why financial literacy is
so important.
But sometimes just learning thehard way is illiteracy.
Just learning the hard way isgood enough, and that is the
(29:10):
school I've been at.
I'm still learning.
I've just learned the hard way.
That's a very good school, right, um?
And then obviously you have tohave, uh, you know, someone in
finance that you speak to.
You have to have someone in allareas of your business.
I mean I, I mean, I have aboard of directors.
They, I did not, I did notappoint them to the like.
(29:38):
They don't know that they're myboard of directors, but they
are, you know.
I love that they don't know,they just don't.
They don't know.
But they've been my board ofdirectors for years.
Like I don't move unless theysay you can do it.
I don't.
Palesa Mokubung (29:52):
Right.
Kutloano Skosana (29:53):
But they don't move unless they say you can do
it.
I don't right, they don't knowthis.
No, I have.
I have a great, great uh uh,you know support uh system when
it comes to different areas ofof my uh business life and it
has helped me so much because Istarted as a baby designer and
along the way you meet peoplewho you get introduced to,
(30:19):
people who change your life forthat moment and it is up to you
to keep that relationship going.
Later you find that you'vecreated a little hub and a
(30:44):
family and directors, peoplewho've been showing you the way
without having to by just beinga student.
When it comes to business, Idon't have a background in
business.
I don't Everything that I'mcreating, I just it's intuition.
Sure, right, right, just tostart, the brand was intuition
business.
I don't everything that I'mcreating I've, I just it's
intuition.
Sure, my right, right just tostart the brand was intuition.
Just everything that I've, thedecisions I've made, have been
based on you know tuition of,you know intuition and you know
(31:04):
support and you know advise andyou know prayer and you know
hard work and you know supportnot only from you know hard work
and you know support not onlyfrom you know support from just
my workers you know my employees.
So it takes a whole entirevillage.
That saying it doesn't onlyapply in the family setting.
(31:27):
It applies when it comes tobusiness on the.
African continent.
Palesa Mokubung (31:32):
No one makes it alone.
It really takes a village.
Kutloano Skosana (31:35):
Yeah, it's taken a village.
So where do I get the money?
I save it.
You know I've got a smalladdiction.
I've got a slight addiction.
Tell me, I like to save money.
I like to save money, it's mything.
Palesa Mokubung (31:49):
Your little squirrel yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (31:52):
It's the thing that I do.
That's the thing that I do.
Uh, just because there was atime, you know the reason I went
to school when I reached theceiling.
Yeah, I reached the ceiling andwent straight to rock bottom,
can you?
Palesa Mokubung (32:06):
see that in your head, absolutely.
I mean, I know how broke youcan be after studies.
I mean, I went for a midlifeupdate.
Kutloano Skosana (32:18):
This is before .
This is before the reason.
I got up and I said what am Igoing to do?
And school seemed like the onlyway, and I didn't have the
money to do it.
But at least I had the will.
At least I had the will.
It's because I had reached theceiling and I went straight to
rock bottom.
So I have been at a place whereI don't have any money to even
(32:40):
just dream, to just do thethings that I want to do and to
just.
I've been broke and since thenI said okay, this lesson is not
only about all the other things,but it's a lesson about money
and I'm going to learn it.
Palesa Mokubung (32:56):
And I'm not going to be.
Kutloano Skosana (32:57):
I don't want to find myself in this position
again because of who I am in thesociety.
If I want to be the person whois employing and helping people
and creating jobs, I've got tobe responsible.
When it comes to money, I'mjust like I'm going to have to
just grab these opportunities,you know when they come.
So, paris, all these things, Ido them out of the business, my
(33:19):
own capacity.
Palesa Mokubung (33:21):
And that brings us to the end of part one of
this conversation with PalesaMokubung.
Thanks for listening and keepan eye out for the second and
final part.
Be the first to find out whenit drops by subscribing to the
Shades and Layers newsletter onshadesandlayerscom, or follow
the show wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Thank you for listening.
(33:41):
I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci anduntil next time, please do take
good care.
And then listen to this.
I was pregnant with my firstdaughter so I thought, okay,
I'll take the meeting.
But H&M had been on everyone'sradar because a couple
of months, or less than a yearbefore it was in the hot water,
I cringed a little bit.
I mean, I think that Maxhosa isdoing really, really good.
Before it was like, oh, do Ihave to stay up to work, whereas
(00:27):
after school it was like, okay,if I don't stay up, then we
don't have work.
Palesa Mokubung (00:33):
Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers.
I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci host, , and this is the first part
of a two-part conversation.
My guest is renowned SouthAfrican fashion Palesa Mokubung,
, founder of the brand Mantsho, which she started 20 years ago
.
Yes, 20 years in business, sothat officially makes her a
legend.
Her journey to this milestoneincludes establishing a solid
(00:57):
business, winning severalindustry awards and some high
profile South Africancollaborations, and most notably
notably her internationalcollaboration with the Swedish
fast fashion brand H&M.
Unfortunately, soon after thatcollaboration, 2020 happened and
slowed down her internationalexpansion plans.
But now, with things almostback to normal and on Mantsho
(01:19):
20th year in business, we take alook back at where she came
from and the next steps she willbe taking to spread her wings
further.
But first let's find out whatbeing 20 years in business means
to Pales Mokubung.
Kutloano Skosana (01:35):
Late last year that I'd been in the 20-year
mark.
Right, it didn't cross my mind,because I had another baby when
the company was turning 20.
I was very pregnant with mysecond baby, with my daughter.
So I had all the pregnancybrain, if you want to call it.
I was very happy with it, withnot remembering the 20-year mark
(01:57):
, because then it meant I didn'thave to make a big deal out of
it.
But everyone else in my lifeand people who supported me and
been part of my journey werevery excited about it and I
didn't have time to really kindof figure out how I got there
Right, Just in simple terms,just in my own, like what were
(02:18):
the three steps?
Bam bam, bam, how did I getthere?
What does the 20-year markconsist of?
And I realized that it wasquite fractured in that I worked
after I left Stoned Cherrie andI was at Stoned Cherrie for, I
think, three years.
And when I was at StonedCherrie I had one year of
(02:38):
education, one year education inthe fashion field, and I
started working and interningand working really hard and
making my mark and creating myplace in the industry for that
three years.
After I left Stoned Cherrie.
I didn't take a break.
I won a competition and I went.
I traveled a little bit, Itraveled a little bit and then I
started my brand and I workedon it for about seven years.
(03:01):
So when the seven years that Iworked on my own after Stoned
Cherrie were without aqualification Right, I
accomplished many, many things.
(03:21):
I showcased all over the world.
Palesa Mokubung (03:23):
I created such a you know, a strong signature
and a very clear voice in thefashion industry and I carved
out a woman for myself, rightand a market for myself.
Yeah, yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (03:34):
But then I reached the ceiling after seven
years.
Because that's that happenswhen you have limited knowledge,
limited knowledge, you havelimited knowledge, formal
education in this technicalfield.
So I went to get my BA degreein fashion design.
Palesa Mokubung (03:53):
Right, where did you study?
Did you stay in Joburg or didyou travel abroad?
Kutloano Skosana (03:57):
No, I studied in Joburg.
I studied at Design School ofSA, which is now.
Palesa Mokubung (04:01):
Vega.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (04:03):
And yeah, so I took a break and I studied full
time and I wow I was not thatyoung anymore.
I mean, I was, I think I justturned 30, so I was studying
with 18 year olds and 19 yearolds yeah, yeah, I had a brand.
I was so competitive and I wasjust, it was just like, um, it's
just something that I needed todo.
(04:24):
You know, I felt like.
I felt like I owed myself atleast that much and also owed my
field, because I could tellthat this is what I want to do
for the long haul.
Palesa Mokubung (04:35):
And I didn't want to give myself any.
Kutloano Skosana (04:38):
I wanted to feel worthy.
I wanted to feel worthy of it.
Yeah, I wanted to feel worthyof it because I knew that it was
going to be, you know, a longyeah this was going to be your
life's work, kind of yeah.
It was going to be my life'swork, so I studied for three
years, I finished in 2014 andthen I started working again.
(04:59):
So what you're seeing is likenine, 10 years worth of a
business that was built againfrom scratch.
Palesa Mokubung (05:04):
Right, wow.
So what was the differencebetween the before and after?
Kutloano Skosana (05:11):
Oh my God, everything, oh my God.
The level of focus.
Can we talk about just thelevel of focus?
Palesa Mokubung (05:16):
Yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (05:17):
The level of focus, having a point of
reference, knowing that you willspend some nights, know up
because you're working, notbecause before it was like a oh,
do I have to stay up to work?
Whereas after school it waslike, okay, if I don't stay up
then we don't have work, thenwe're not working.
(05:39):
So the level of commitment, thelevel of respect that I had for
my field, the level ofunderstanding and I knew
technical things, I mean therewere subjects that I did not
know, that I was passionateabout I started paying more
focus into my fabrics.
That's when I started goinginto my own textiles.
(05:59):
You know, creating that kind ofcommunication between my
clients and I and being justbeing able to translate that
alone a milestone.
And then, having having had thetime to carve out a vision that
is based on research, in school, you learn about you.
You're forced to learn aboutthe top 10 designers in the
(06:23):
world and how they got there.
You know faculty history was soimportant, and before you know I
would read an article or two,but that was all the history I
had.
I was not really pinned down tolearn and be, you know, just
knowledgeable about my industry.
And, yeah, I did not know howbig the industry was.
Palesa Mokubung (06:44):
I think so.
It's quite a discipline, isn'tit?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, while you'restudying all these top designers
, who stands out to you?
Who do you want to modelyourself after?
Kutloano Skosana (06:55):
oh, you know, something very traumatic
happened when I was studying.
You know, that's when, uh,alexandra McQueen passed away.
So, yeah, that was definitely,that was definitely something
that stood out for me.
I was, I I had to really, youknow, dive into that world, into
into his world.
So I think that I I realizedhow intense, uh, the industry
(07:19):
can make a person and how, butalso how much choice we have in
allowing that to happen.
I think that McQueen enjoyedbeing intense.
So from that I learned to kindof find the balance.
I said, okay, I love what I do,but I also love myself, and if
(07:41):
I can find the balance betweencreating a healthy life for
myself and a healthy businesslife that can help myself and
other people, then I want to dothat.
So I was inspired not to belike anybody, but more to be
like myself more like myself.
Palesa Mokubung (07:59):
So how do you describe your brand Mantsho?
Kutloano Skosana (08:04):
Oh, my goodness, it's grown so much.
I mean, you must.
20 years, it's a long time tobe building something, and other
times it's at the tip of yourtongue, and other times it's at
the top of your head, and othertimes it lives in your heart,
and other times so I think I'vedescribed it in so many
different ways and I thinkthat's fine, you know, at
different phases of my life,yeah, but how I would describe
(08:26):
it now, or describe the woman,at least, she is a global woman.
She's a global woman who hasbuilt herself from scratch.
She's really built herself, youknow, piece by piece.
She is a wholesome woman who isinterested in the community
(08:47):
that she comes from.
She's a giver.
She is very driven, but she isvery humble and really, really
remembers where she comes from.
She values her culture, hertraditions.
She's authentic.
She's authentic, a global andauthentic woman.
That is something that you haveto work for.
It's something that you build.
It's like she's a project.
(09:08):
She's her own project, that'swho she is.
She's her number one project.
Palesa Mokubung (09:14):
Right.
So how do you reflect this in,let's say, the style of clothes?
How is it captured?
Kutloano Skosana (09:22):
You know, we are very bold people, we're very
loud, I mean, you might find,and sometimes loud is not in how
we dress, sometimes it's justin our personality and just in
our character as Africans.
And these are like qualitiesthat I would see from like a
(09:42):
woman that I admire from downthe road, who wears the best
jackets with a stretcher skirt,and she doesn't have a very
fancy job, but she she's able to.
You know, put the two togetherand from the village now called.
Palesa Mokubung (10:01):
Yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (10:01):
I reflect that by, first of all, our just
culture through the colors thatwe use.
Yeah, because we, when I thinkabout, you know, as South
Africans, very I think of adiverse, you know, right, a very
, very diverse nation.
So I think a lot of color and Ithat I'm not very shy to draw,
you know, to draw from.
(10:22):
If I think of a, you know, ared, it's like it's a zulu blood
red yeah, if I think of theroyal blue.
It's like I'm a postola royalblue and that's the color.
That's the mantu royal blue.
So when I go to print that'sthe, that the blueprint.
If we're looking for a blue,we're not going to see which
(10:43):
blue is trending now.
No, we go to the royal blue,the one that runs through the
Mantsho blood.
That's the one.
So it is about finding meaning.
I reflect it by finding meaningin the colors that we exude
ever so gracefully and wear everso gracefully as Africans, as
(11:04):
South Africans.
I expressed that through justour love for layering.
You know, if you think of asuture woman, she will wear
everything, everything.
(11:26):
She will wear her treasure, thefirst layer, everything she will
wear her treasure, the firstlayer, and then she will wear
the apron, and then she willwear the blanket on the shoulder
and then she will wear the headwrap, and then she will wear a
hat over the head wrap and thenlike if we do accessories.
(11:47):
we don't do one little bracelet.
We pack it.
Oh gosh, yeah, you know we packit up.
Oh gosh, yeah, I think about it.
In South Africa, we love tothrow things over our shoulders.
Maybe that is why I have a longline of collars that you can
just throw over your shoulder.
It's like it's a sign ofrespect for yourself, it is a
(12:08):
sign of just giving yourself.
You know the epilat, you knowit's a sign of pride.
And so it's those little, youknow little nuances that I take
from different cultures that Iincorporate in my designs.
Palesa Mokubung (12:30):
Yeah, hey, it's Shades and Layers, and I'm
speaking to South Africanfashion designer Palesa Mokubung
about her brand, Mantsho.
She attributes her success tobeing ready for any eventuality,
positive or negative, and shebelieves that this is what made
her collaboration with theglobal fast fashion brand H&M a
success.
Let's find out how thatcollaboration came about and how
(12:53):
everything unfolded.
Kutloano Skosana (12:56):
H&M came after I'd been in the industry for
about 15 years, so I'd had myhead down for quite a while,
first as an untrained designerand then a qualified designer,
and then a designer who is nowall about her business and is
building from dress to dress now, and I think they came in about
(13:16):
five years after I had gottenmy qualification and created
this new business.
I mean, I looked at my businessas a new business after.
Right, it felt like a newbusiness.
I spoke a different language, Ipresented it better, I packaged
.
I actually packaged my business, whereas before it was just
something that I loved, that Iwas just doing, but I had
(13:37):
started packaging my business.
So I think that what H&M waslooking for was the full package
.
They were looking for someone.
Yeah, they were looking for thefull package and I presented
that because I had had the focusto package my business and I
did it at the right time.
But how it came about is that II mean, they reached out to me
(14:00):
on Instagram.
Hey, oh, insta, it's not fancy.
I mean it's really not fancy.
It's so not fancy, but I thinkit was a WhatsApp.
Actually, I think it was aWhatsApp.
Someone sent me just an oddWhatsApp.
Hey, do you want to?
I work at H&M.
I'll be in Joburg next week.
Can we have a meeting?
No way, I promise you.
(14:22):
And then and then listen tothis I was pregnant with my
first daughter.
So I thought, okay, I'll, I'lltake the meeting.
But but H&M had been oneveryone's radar because the a
couple of months, or, you know,less than a year before it, it
(14:42):
year before it, it was in the inthe hot water.
Oh, there was a controversyaround it.
So I thought, you know, h&m, Ihad a.
I cringed a little bit to evenjust take a meeting with H&M,
because I know how I felt youknow about.
Palesa Mokubung (14:52):
It was the ad, yeah, the ad with the black kid,
yeah, but I was like okay, Iwas like, okay, it's just a
meeting.
Kutloano Skosana (14:59):
And then I went and they, you know, I met.
I met someone from the localteam and they expressed a
possible collaboration.
I had no idea what that looked.
I didn't even know that theywere doing those collaborations.
I learned then that they hadbeen having collaborations that
were very popular.
It was very short-lived.
It's very, it's very likepunchy collaborate like three
months.
Palesa Mokubung (15:20):
And they sell out immediately.
Kutloano Skosana (15:21):
Very limited stock, yeah, and they sell out
and then they move on.
So I took the meeting and Ididn't think much of it and and
there were follow up calls thatthe global team came to South
Africa still did not think muchof it, but what I loved about it
is that I was ready for it.
So anything that they asked forand they asked for, that they
asked for and they asked foreverything they asked for.
(15:42):
You know, financials for thelast, you know, three years,
five years.
They asked for everything theywanted I had at the press of a
button, literally at the pressof a button, and I did not know.
I've always known that obviouslyI'm special and I'm going to
have a moment.
I did not know when that momentwould be, and after 15 years,
(16:05):
you begin to think, oh, if it'sgoing to happen ever.
But by a moment, though, I meanlike a moment where you have
not for popularity, but to standfor something, to have an
opportunity to change people'sminds about something, to have
an opportunity to show them anew way of thinking.
And I think that's what thecollaboration did for me.
(16:27):
Is that, because it came aftersuch a controversy, I could
actually stand up and be likelisten, if I didn't do this
collaboration, someone elsewould have.
That's the first thing, but I'mglad that it's me, because
someone has to stand up and say,okay, so that has happened.
How do we move forward?
How do we move forward?
What did we want before this?
(16:49):
Can we go back to now?
You know those conversations.
It doesn't have to stop hereand it doesn't, and this is.
It's a big moment, you know,for the continent.
That's what I found when thenews broke out is that I thought
my people would be happy for me, but I realized that the whole
world, the very same world thatwas upset, the entire world that
(17:11):
was upset, the entire world wasnow so happy that this was
happening and I think that itjust symbolized just something
so incredibly good.
It symbolized second chances,first of all, deserved or not,
but it symbolized them.
I loved being a part of thatconversation.
That's one.
I also loved the fact that theychose me.
(17:34):
I had often felt like aunderground sort of, you know,
an underdog.
I had felt like an underdog andI loved that they did not go
for someone who was already wellknown, right, they went for
someone who was deserving andthey did the research because I
was deserving.
(17:55):
You know, I was the girl whostarted with Stoned Cherrie.
I was the girl who had been,who had lost everything, so they
could just start making onedress again.
And they sat down with me tohear and learn about those
stories.
But they also they knew so muchabout me when they came to me
it was very genuine.
(18:15):
Obviously this is not somethingthat people knew, but it is not
a relationship also that Iwould have gotten into if it was
not a good relationship.
Palesa Mokubung (18:25):
Yeah, so there was something authentic about
that interaction.
They were so sensitive.
Kutloano Skosana (18:30):
You know I was pregnant also, you must
remember, with my first baby andI'm 38 years old, so I could
have given up anything just tohave my baby.
So the fact that I could, youknow just my.
I wanted that more than Iwanted a break, right.
Palesa Mokubung (18:46):
But they came at the same time.
Kutloano Skosana (18:48):
So to have a company that and it's not just
them, I think it's a Swedenthing.
You know, it's a Swedishcompany company and I think it's
a.
Sweden thing that they are socaring when it comes to and so
kind when it comes to women, andyou know and oh yeah, I mean,
(19:09):
that's my experience.
Palesa Mokubung (19:11):
It's definitely my experience.
Yeah, I had basically birthingtwo kids.
Kutloano Skosana (19:16):
Yeah, my company was birthing the biggest
break, and I was having myfirst baby and it was such a
(19:37):
smooth process and I think it'sbecause the timing was perfect.
I love that they had huge, theyhad.
They had like such strictsustainability laws.
There was just so many thingsthat were aligned.
Eh, like it was just one ofthose um partnerships that were
really, really, really writtenin the stars.
Palesa Mokubung (19:56):
Yeah yeah, everything came together at the
right time oh that's nice,that's nice yeah but let's say,
let's look at other milestonesthat you've had, uh, during this
journey into the fashionbusiness.
Um, are there any, maybe twomore that stand out that have
made this journey worthwhile?
Kutloano Skosana (20:15):
Oh, my goodness, I think I've had.
I mean, I'm standing in myoffice and I'm looking at how
many two, four, six, eight I'mlooking at 10 fashion awards.
Palesa Mokubung (20:24):
Wonderful yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (20:26):
I have a few right and I'm just trying to see
which one kind of stands outfor me.
I mean, it's anything from.
Actually.
I mean, these are words thatjust now, just standing in my
office, but I, if I have tothink about them, I guess they
meant something to someone atsome point.
For me, some of theachievements that I'm very proud
of are not even here.
I can't even.
Yeah, they're not representedwith a, they don't have a
(20:50):
shining mark at the top of theshelf.
There are some cool projectsthat we've done, that I've, that
have meant a lot to me, thatare not, you know, largely
talked about.
Yeah, I mean I, I, I did awardrobe for coming to america.
That was really good, I did yeahum, I mean, that was, that was
(21:11):
big, actually, that really, thatwas really cool for me.
Palesa Mokubung (21:13):
That was quite good.
Kutloano Skosana (21:13):
It was cool for me because it was like a
little childhood dream, you know, coming through.
So it's something that tickledme.
Not really didn't really domuch for the world, didn't
really, but it tickled me.
I mean I would have to ask myteam.
There's so many things that Ido.
Let me just say this becauseI'm so passionate about what I
do do.
Let me just say this becauseI'm so passionate about what I
(21:35):
do For me.
If we make a jacket and it's asuccess, I'm like, oh my God,
I'm a winner.
But things that I guess couldmean something to the world is
that I've been on the Forbesstage.
You know I've given a.
I've been on the Forbes stage,forbes Women's Conference stage.
I think that I do a lot of workwith interns.
I love that Again not popularnot popular info?
(21:56):
Yeah, but I do.
I work with the school here andI've been taking interns for
the last maybe five years.
I take two to three interns ayear.
I train them and then I takenew ones and I love it.
It's done so much for so manyyoung people, something that's
very close to my heart, that Iwould have to send them to you.
I mean, I can't think of.
Palesa Mokubung (22:18):
No problem, yeah, I mean.
Kutloano Skosana (22:20):
I travel the world, I showcase my clothes,
but there's nothing glamorousabout it.
Sure, maybe I'm glamorous whenI'm doing it, but it's real work
.
Yeah, it's like it's me tryingto do it.
Maybe it's real work.
Yeah, yeah, it's like it's metrying to do it.
Maybe I'm glamorous when I'mdoing it, but it it is not.
It's not glamorous at all.
It's me really really trying tobuild a company that can feed
(22:42):
families, and that's what I'mvery, very proud of.
Yeah, Having been able tosustain my business for so long,
having workers that have beenwith me for 12 years, having
it's little things.
That's why I'm like it's notwhat you think.
Palesa Mokubung (22:58):
I know you want me to say no, no, no, I mean
whatever it means to you.
Actually, I am more aiming forthe things that are meaningful
to you.
You know it's things that meansomething to me.
Kutloano Skosana (23:10):
Showcasing all over the world is wonderful,
but it's a lot of work.
I'm about to do something thatI'm going to be very, very proud
of, though I'll tell you thatmuch because it's a dream I'm
doing a trade show in Paris.
Wonderful, and it's somethingI've always wanted to do, just
because it is important to openourselves up to the global
market, ourselves up to theglobal market.
(23:38):
I did H&M in 2019.
And then and I was reallylooking forward to doing a
global tour to all the topmarkets you know that the
collection reached.
It reached years and I was notable to everything shut down
2020, everything shut down 2021.
So I just I feel like no, it'sjust something that I wanted to
do and I kind of put that on theback seat a little bit and
(23:58):
allowed the world to do thechange that it needed to change,
because the world has changed.
it's not what it was 2019absolutely yeah, yeah or last
year yeah it's changed so muchand I I've just been watching
and learning new trades and I'mready to start attending and
kind of reaching out to theworld in a way that is current
(24:22):
yeah, doing business in acurrent way.
So I'm doing my first tradeshow next week in Paris and then
I've got another one later inthe month and I'm hoping for
more.
But it's all about the globalmarket.
Sure, it's all about takingit's all about globalizing the
brand.
Palesa Mokubung (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which brings me to the idea ofmaking it on a global stage for
an African designer.
I mean, we've seen a lot of,you know, accolades, lvmh, et
cetera.
So you know what's your take onthat?
When you say an Africandesigner has made it, what does
(25:00):
that look like?
And yeah, what does it mean forthe African continent, the
ecosystem on the African?
Kutloano Skosana (25:07):
continent.
Sure, when you say an Africandesigner has made it, what does
that look like?
I think it would mean differentthings for each designer.
I think when an Africandesigner has made, in my opinion
, if an African designer hasmade it, it would be if they
could carry.
I mean, I think that theMarcosa is doing really good.
I think that is a good exampleof what an African designer
(25:32):
making it looks like.
And I say this mainly for acouple of points.
One, they are a conscious brand.
They are very aware of theamount of work that they produce
and the waste that they produce, and they try to curb that as
(25:53):
much as they could.
Um, it's something that shouldbother more people, um, but I
don't think it does.
Just, waste in the fashionindustry is is a major.
I mean, I I traveled last yearto a recycling uh uh company in
portugal, not last two years ago, and I just I I still can't
(26:15):
everything that I saw there,just how much waste cause, just
as as the fashion industry.
So I cannot just imagine otherindustries.
So so for me to have that mindand to that, to have that as
like a core principle of of thebusiness, for me is like such a
great example of an Africanleader, creative leader one.
(26:38):
The other point is, obviously,you know employment, if you can
take people with you and employand provide employment for as
many people as you possibly can.
For me, that is an example ofan African designer who has made
(26:58):
it.
Making it on your own acrossthe seas and you are doing
something on your own is justliving a nice life.
That's not an African designermaking it.
An African designer making itis a designer that makes a
difference in the lives of otherAfricans.
Palesa Mokubung (27:19):
Great.
So that brings me to financingthis whole business.
You know you're going to atrade show.
We have a Department of Tradeand Industry.
You know I mean all of this.
No one's come to the party.
Yeah, hey, we have a Departmentof Trade and Industry.
And you know I mean all of this.
No one's come to the party girl.
Kutloano Skosana (27:36):
No one's come to the party.
Palesa Mokubung (27:37):
Okay, I was hoping you'd say something
different Just before you ask me.
Let me tell you the answer.
Kutloano Skosana (27:42):
Let me tell you the answer before you ask me
no one's come to the party.
Okay, we sent out the emailsand we also have, have, you know
, a day-to-day business to run,so you can't be chasing.
Sure, um, you send out what youcan to who you can.
You, you know the contacts arethere, you know the channels are
there, but if you're notgetting word on the other side,
you do it yourself.
That's why you have to be verysavvy with your money.
(28:05):
You always have to savesomething for a rainy day.
Um, as a as a business, um, as abusiness, as an entrepreneur,
you always have to havesomething for a rainy day,
because opportunities just canjust spring up on you and you
need to be able to do it.
So some of these opportunitiesare funded.
(28:25):
Obviously, you know that youare catered for, but it's like
sometimes like an 80-20situation Sure, so we will give
you, um, you will be able totrade, we'll cover those
expenses, we'll, you know,accommodations covered, but
you've got to fly yourself andget your collection there and
get your insurances and and itcan add up if you're not on, if
(28:48):
you're not ready for it, youwon't be able to do it.
So most of the time you'realone.
You're alone, you're doing thison your own.
That's why you have to have,that's why financial literacy is
so important.
But sometimes just learning thehard way is illiteracy.
Just learning the hard way isgood enough, and that is the
(29:10):
school I've been at.
I'm still learning.
I've just learned the hard way.
That's a very good school, right, um?
And then obviously you have tohave, uh, you know, someone in
finance that you speak to.
You have to have someone in allareas of your business.
I mean I, I mean, I have aboard of directors.
They, I did not, I did notappoint them to the like.
(29:38):
They don't know that they're myboard of directors, but they
are, you know.
I love that they don't know,they just don't.
They don't know.
But they've been my board ofdirectors for years.
Like I don't move unless theysay you can do it.
I don't.
Palesa Mokubung (29:52):
Right.
Kutloano Skosana (29:53):
But they don't move unless they say you can do
it.
I don't right, they don't knowthis.
No, I have.
I have a great, great uh uh,you know support uh system when
it comes to different areas ofof my uh business life and it
has helped me so much because Istarted as a baby designer and
along the way you meet peoplewho you get introduced to,
(30:19):
people who change your life forthat moment and it is up to you
to keep that relationship going.
Later you find that you'vecreated a little hub and a
(30:44):
family and directors, peoplewho've been showing you the way
without having to by just beinga student.
When it comes to business, Idon't have a background in
business.
I don't Everything that I'mcreating, I just it's intuition.
Sure, right, right, just tostart, the brand was intuition
business.
I don't everything that I'mcreating I've, I just it's
intuition.
Sure, my right, right just tostart the brand was intuition.
Just everything that I've, thedecisions I've made, have been
based on you know tuition of,you know intuition and you know
(31:04):
support and you know advise andyou know prayer and you know
hard work and you know supportnot only from you know hard work
and you know support not onlyfrom you know support from just
my workers you know my employees.
So it takes a whole entirevillage.
That saying it doesn't onlyapply in the family setting.
(31:27):
It applies when it comes tobusiness on the.
African continent.
Palesa Mokubung (31:32):
No one makes it alone.
It really takes a village.
Kutloano Skosana (31:35):
Yeah, it's taken a village.
So where do I get the money?
I save it.
You know I've got a smalladdiction.
I've got a slight addiction.
Tell me, I like to save money.
I like to save money, it's mything.
Palesa Mokubung (31:49):
Your little squirrel yeah.
Kutloano Skosana (31:52):
It's the thing that I do.
That's the thing that I do.
Uh, just because there was atime, you know the reason I went
to school when I reached theceiling.
Yeah, I reached the ceiling andwent straight to rock bottom,
can you?
Palesa Mokubung (32:06):
see that in your head, absolutely.
I mean, I know how broke youcan be after studies.
I mean, I went for a midlifeupdate.
Kutloano Skosana (32:18):
This is before .
This is before the reason.
I got up and I said what am Igoing to do?
And school seemed like the onlyway, and I didn't have the
money to do it.
But at least I had the will.
At least I had the will.
It's because I had reached theceiling and I went straight to
rock bottom.
So I have been at a place whereI don't have any money to even
(32:40):
just dream, to just do thethings that I want to do and to
just.
I've been broke and since thenI said okay, this lesson is not
only about all the other things,but it's a lesson about money
and I'm going to learn it.
Palesa Mokubung (32:56):
And I'm not going to be.
Kutloano Skosana (32:57):
I don't want to find myself in this position
again because of who I am in thesociety.
If I want to be the person whois employing and helping people
and creating jobs, I've got tobe responsible.
When it comes to money, I'mjust like I'm going to have to
just grab these opportunities,you know when they come.
So, paris, all these things, Ido them out of the business, my
(33:19):
own capacity.
Palesa Mokubung (33:21):
And that brings us to the end of part one of
this conversation with PalesaMokubung.
Thanks for listening and keepan eye out for the second and
final part.
Be the first to find out whenit drops by subscribing to the
Shades and Layers newsletter onshadesandlayerscom, or follow
the show wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Thank you for listening.
(33:41):
I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci anduntil next time, please do take
good care.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.