Episode Transcript
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Kutloano Skosana (00:02):
it's been
trial and error.
I've had great, great wins andmany, many losses, but the fact
that there are untapped uh, youknow places, spaces, markets, is
what keeps me going, becauseI'm built for a challenge I'm a
creative period hello andwelcome to shades and layers.
Palesa Mokubung (00:21):
I'm I'm your
host, Kutloano Skosana Ricci.
And this is the conclusion of atwo-part conversation with
Palesa Mokubung, fashiondesigner and founder of the
renowned South African labelMantsho.
So far, we discussed thetransition from passionate
intern to iconic designer.
We also got into one of herbiggest milestones of her
(00:42):
20-year entrepreneurial journeybeing the first African black
designer to collaborate with theSwedish fast fashion brand H&M.
If you missed the first part ofthis conversation, I have
included a link in the shownotes For part two.
We focus on the challenges thatface African designers in
general, balisa's love forlearning and why that has been
(01:05):
an important character trait forher success.
She also mentions some lifelessons that come with being a
business owner, as well as thenext steps in her journey as an
entrepreneur.
So here is Balisa in part twoof a conversation with Shades
and Layers.
One of the challenging thingsfor a lot of fashion brands out
of the African continent isdistribution, and because
(01:29):
there's a trend towards onlineshopping, that also becomes
doubly challenging because ofinfrastructure.
So how have you got around?
I know you have an online shoptoo, so how have you got around
all these challenges?
Kutloano Skosana (01:44):
It's still a
challenge.
It's a huge challenge, I meanto have a distribution.
It's actually a privilege tohave a challenge to distribute.
It's a privilege because itmeans that at least someone
still wants your items.
Right, you're still in the game.
You're still in the game.
You just have to figure out howto be in the game and then
other other issues then start.
(02:05):
Where do you make the items?
You know quality, you know insouth africa, our industry, you
know our suffered.
Palesa Mokubung (02:11):
Yeah, yeah,
yeah it started suffering years
ago.
Kutloano Skosana (02:14):
So we're
slowly trying to rebuild it
remotely.
You know designers on their ownyou are doing.
You know you run your own smallproduction line and you know
you produce your items.
But if you want to play on theglobal market, you've got to.
You have to find a way to dothat in.
You can't do that internally,you know.
So those challenges are reallythere.
(02:37):
They're really there.
Step of going to do a tradeshow now that is one of the
things that I'm most not nervous, but it's one of the
conversations I'm lookingforward to having with other
designers, because it's Africandesigners from all over.
You know the continent from ourbase.
You know globally and some here, and I'm looking forward to
(02:58):
having conversations with mycolleagues you know fellow
designers to say how do youtackle uh, you know such such
issues.
Obviously, I've never had alarge order that I needed to
produce myself and when I did,which was with h&m, I had great
support.
So, unless you have a backer toto produce, to even just get
the orders to be in a positionwhere you are exposed to
(03:21):
different buyers is you know?
You know it needs support, youneed someone to back you.
So I'm looking forward tohaving those conversations.
It's an ongoing struggle, Ithink, for most of us who've
been in the industry for areally long time and who want to
stay there and play on thatscale.
So I don't have answers.
(03:43):
I don't have answers at thispoint.
I'm really looking forward topicking people's brains.
I'm looking forward to pickingpeople's brains and seeing what
connections I can make.
It's not just about gettingbuyers, it's also just finding
out how to.
Then, once you have buyers andyou've got big or small what is
then?
What is that channel like onthe global?
Palesa Mokubung (04:04):
Because there's
that also.
Kutloano Skosana (04:05):
There's that
knowledge.
There's that knowledge and thatbusiness model that it's good
and well that I'm going there.
It's a good first step.
I'm opening myself up to awhole new way of working.
But it is exciting because,like I was saying to you, that
when you're at a point where youdon't know something, it's a
fantastic place to be at,because then it means that you
(04:28):
can open the door and startlearning about it.
You can start learning about it.
It is a fantastic place, so Ilove it when I'm not, when I
don't know everything.
Palesa Mokubung (04:37):
I prefer it
actually.
You've always expressed thatenthusiasm.
I think I told you when I sawyou in Johannesburg that you
know, you had told me about youhad just done a song with Zubz
and you were telling me that youknow, you know singing is
something that I can do, but youknow sewing and design.
It's something that I'veactually had to learn and I love
(04:57):
it.
Kutloano Skosana (04:58):
Thank you.
Yeah, I love the layers thatare in entrepreneurship because
I've never known anything aboutit.
Like I said, there's noblueprint.
I've never had one.
It's been trial and error.
I've had great, great wins andmany, many losses, but the fact
(05:19):
that there are places, spaces,markets is what keeps me going,
because I'm built for achallenge.
Palesa Mokubung (05:27):
I'm a creative
period.
Kutloano Skosana (05:28):
I'm a creative
, but you know, my mom is an
intellectual and my father is acreative and my brother is a
bona fide creative.
Palesa Mokubung (05:36):
And I'm a bit
of both.
Kutloano Skosana (05:37):
So I'm a bit
of both, which I'm so grateful
for.
But it's something that youhave to lean into and really,
really harness and enjoy thechallenge of it.
So I take that with me and Ibring it to the business.
I enjoy the business part of mybusiness as much as I enjoy the
creative, and that is kind ofrare, that is quite rare
(05:58):
actually.
Because it's quite rare.
It's quite rare, but I enjoyboth and sometimes it's a good
thing, I think, and other timesmaybe not, because with design
you can be both of them.
You have to be calculative, andsometimes you can be too
calculative with design becauseyou're in a business mode, or
you can be too playful andcreative with business because
(06:19):
you are in a creative mode.
So you've got to find a reallynice balance, or else you might
find yourself doing thingsbecause they just tickle you and
it's that's not a good enoughreason.
But uh, I'm glad that I've gota very strong footing, you know,
in my, in my business, and thatallowed me to go at my own pace
.
That's another important thing,yeah, and it allows me to go at
(06:42):
my own pace and for me to createa bubble.
That cannot be easily influencedto create a world and a
business.
That where I'm not easily kindof swayed.
There's a vision.
It's a very fluid vision.
You know this is what I wouldlike, but if something else
comes in that I have had hopesfor and dreams, I can adjust
(07:05):
myself.
So I've got a vision, but it'sfluid and my feet are firm on
the ground and I think that'sthe formula I've been using.
It's creative, like I said, butit kind of it works for me, but
I need to make sure that itworks for the business as well.
Palesa Mokubung (07:19):
So how do you
describe yourself as a leader?
Kutloano Skosana (07:23):
I'm very
strict, but I'm also quite
maternal about what I do, so I'mvery caring, I'm very caring
and I'm very.
It's like a family, it's likeI'm family orientated, you know.
And by family I mean not justus.
I treat my business like that,but not just us.
It extends to our clients.
You know the clients are partof the family.
(07:44):
Hence we have the Jita dress,because we named it after our
client, one of our biggestclients.
The Jita dress, it's like it isvery warm and fuzzy.
That's the kind of Vida I am,but I'm very strict.
I'm very strict.
Palesa Mokubung (07:58):
You have
expectations.
Kutloano Skosana (08:02):
I do have
expectations, I have high
expectations, but I can also.
But immediately after that Ican relax and we can all go back
to like it's not tense.
Palesa Mokubung (08:12):
It's not tense.
Kutloano Skosana (08:13):
I'm a lot of
fun because what we do is very
serious.
I know it doesn't look like it.
I know you guys don't think sohey.
Palesa Mokubung (08:21):
I do, but yeah,
okay, thank you.
Hey, someone do, but yeah okay,very brilliant.
Kutloano Skosana (08:25):
Thank you, hey
.
Someone at least takes usseriously.
But what we do, it's quitedemanding.
So I do not.
I'm not high strung.
I'm not a high strung leader.
I'm the one who comes everybodydown and makes sure that
there's still people can bethemselves in order to be
(08:46):
productive.
Palesa Mokubung (08:46):
That's good to
hear, and where did you learn
that?
Who have been some of yourmentors?
Kutloano Skosana (08:52):
That's a good
question.
I think it's my mom.
Okay, tell me more I think Igot that from my mom, my mother,
you know, mother of energy, youknow about that mother who was
always bringing kids to school.
She was an educator for many,many years and my mother is a
qualified psychologist who'snever practiced, she's been an
(09:14):
educator.
So I was raised by her and youknow she was a single mom for
most of our lives.
So she, she very much raised usto be to be able to, to express
ourselves, to learn how toexpress ourselves in order to
get what we want in the world.
So I think that and she's verysubtle about her ways, very
(09:35):
elegant.
So the creativity in my work ismy dad and the class and
elegance and style is my mom.
The creativity is my dad and Ithink just the leadership is my
mom.
So I love that question.
I love that question.
Palesa Mokubung (09:53):
And your vision
going forward.
I know you're going to a tradeshow and there's, you know
aspirations, but I mean what youknow.
How do you see Mantsho evolving, Like, how would you like to
direct it?
Kutloano Skosana (10:05):
I think you
know what I want us to talk
about the now, because who am I?
I don't know where.
I cannot tell you.
I cannot tell you for sure.
By God's grace, right.
By God's grace, right?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's aGod question and that is
something that you ask for.
You know, you ask for life.
(10:26):
Ask God to give him to, to, tomake sure.
I've asked if I could see mykids turn 40.
Hey, and my kids are only fiveyears old.
My child is one, five, it'slike, the other one is eight
months.
Palesa Mokubung (10:36):
So you better
know You've been living a long,
long life.
Kutloano Skosana (10:39):
Yes, oh my God
, I better start eating well and
going to the gym, because I'veasked for a long life.
But there are just certainthings that you just ask for.
And then there are things thatyou but there are just certain
things that you just ask for.
And then there are things thatyou work towards.
Right, so, working towards, Ithink it's just new markets.
Gwano, that's what I want tosay, because I've been doing
(11:00):
this for so long.
My market here is loyal and I'mgrateful for that, but the
brand that you see now is like10 years feet firm on the, you
know on the ground.
Then I think tennis is a goodbenchmark for me to start really
exploring new markets.
That's the only way to sum itup.
(11:21):
Um, as to when, how I'm goingwith it as as it comes, you know
, but I'm like I I like to stayready, right in my business.
I like to stay ready.
I really I like to stay ready,right In my business.
I like to stay ready, I reallylike to stay ready.
Yeah, perfect so we do thingsbecause we are always getting
ready for something great.
We don't know what it is but,we're always getting ready for
something great.
Palesa Mokubung (11:41):
Yeah, so you
know, 20 years is quite an
achievement and you know ifsomeone had to ask you to
document it and put it in a book.
What would you call that bookand why what?
Kutloano Skosana (11:58):
Don't ask me
that question?
Palesa Mokubung (11:59):
I don't know.
Kutloano Skosana (12:00):
Oh my God,
I've never been asked that
question.
Palesa Mokubung (12:04):
What are?
Kutloano Skosana (12:04):
your thoughts.
I've never thought about it,but I call it.
This doesn't have to stickright, it doesn't have to stick,
it changed my mind right, ofcourse, and it would have to be
about the business, right?
Palesa Mokubung (12:15):
I mean, you're
the heartbeat of the business
too, so and true, true, true,true, true, true.
Kutloano Skosana (12:21):
Oh, I don't,
I'm on.
Why are you doing this Now, ifI don't answer you?
Even if I answer you, I'm goingto think about it.
You don't have to answer me.
Palesa Mokubung (12:29):
The point is,
this is a huge milestone.
It needs to be marked somehow.
It's a celebration and you know, just getting you to, we don't.
We very often don't reflect onour journeys as just as people
in general.
Kutloano Skosana (12:42):
It's like oh
yeah, that happens.
That's amazing.
So you know, this is a way todo it.
You know what I would call it.
I would call it beingcomfortable with success.
Palesa Mokubung (12:55):
Oh, say more
why.
Kutloano Skosana (12:57):
No, because,
yay, because we can be so
uncomfortable with justacknowledging that you've worked
hard and that it's paid off.
Right, I hear you beingcomfortable.
It's scary Like my heart isbeating so fast, like I can feel
my body, I can feel my insides,because I'm like, ooh, am I Now
, you question, am I successful?
Yeah, to a large degree.
(13:18):
Yeah, is it.
Am I at the top of the hill?
No, but this is successful tome.
This is my level of success,one of the levels there's many
levels.
Palesa Mokubung (13:30):
I'm just at one
of them.
So another controversialquestion for you, because I do
this to everyone who comes onthe podcast.
Kutloano Skosana (13:37):
So let's take
that book being Comfortable with
.
Palesa Mokubung (13:39):
Success.
We turn it into a movie.
Who do you choose to be thelead actress?
Oh my God.
Kutloano Skosana (13:47):
Oh my God,
From Hollywood Anyway.
Palesa Mokubung (13:50):
Anyway.
Are they going to be fromHollywood anyway anyway.
Kutloano Skosana (13:53):
Anyway, is it
like the stars of our generation
?
Anyway, now can I tell you whoI love right now?
Right, I love me some good.
Palesa Mokubung (13:59):
Kiki Palmer oh
yeah, she's fun.
Oh, I love she is so much fun,she's got energy and drive.
Kutloano Skosana (14:07):
And she's got
energy and she's got drive and
you know she can pull herselfout of any gutter.
That's the person who shouldpay me.
Who should play me?
Anybody who can pull themselvesout of a sticky situation is
the person who should pay me.
Okay.
Palesa Mokubung (14:19):
What else?
Okay?
So let's say you're hosting adinner and you could choose one
famous black woman to invite,living or dead.
Who would it be?
Kutloano Skosana (14:28):
Let me think,
famous, and I'm having just one
person, just one person.
I love her Mind, spirit, I loveher, I love her and I think
she's such an incredible voicefor our generation and she's
like a mirror, you know, like amirror, and it's an exceptional
(14:51):
way to look at yourself, youknow, if you, if she's like a
mirror and it's a, it's anexceptional way to look at
yourself, you know.
Yeah, yeah, she is so incredible, and the amount of talent, but
the wisdom as well.
Do you know, when someone is inher, in her place in the world
and doing the work that she'smeant to be doing, that's the
girl.
I love her.
Thank you for asking me that.
(15:12):
I love that.
Thank you for asking me that.
Palesa Mokubung (15:14):
Yeah, yeah, so
we are wrapping it up now.
If people want to reach you,give you money.
Where can they find you?
Kutloano Skosana (15:22):
Oh my God,
give me money.
All the email addresses you'vebeen sending us, they must find
us there.
They can also DM me.
Imagine, find us there.
They can also DM me work.
Imagine a whole globalcollaboration happened over a DM
and a WhatsApp.
Imagine.
Palesa Mokubung (15:35):
Those are real
platforms.
Kutloano Skosana (15:37):
They work.
Palesa Mokubung (15:37):
Don't shun them
.
Yes, okay.
Kutloano Skosana (15:40):
They work.
Yeah, good old Instagram, Ithink, all social platforms,
email and just study the work,study us and feel our heartbeat
before you come, because if youdon't, we will know.
Palesa Mokubung (15:53):
And that is all
from me this time around.
Thank you, Balisa, for tellingyour story with such a great
sense of humor.
If you liked this episode andyou know someone else who might
like it, please go ahead andshare it.
As always, thank you forlistening and your ongoing
support.
I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci, anduntil next time, please do take
(16:14):
good care.