What happens when a physician practices medicine across three different continents? Dr. Gregory Adaka's remarkable journey from Nigeria to the UK to the United States reveals surprising truths about global healthcare that every medical professional should consider.
Born in Manchester and raised in Nigeria, Dr. Adaka's path to emergency medicine began with an unexpected source of inspiration: the American TV show "ER." His story weaves through vastly different healthcare systems, highlighting both technological advancement and accessibility challenges that shape patient care worldwide.
A powerful moment comes when Dr. Adaka shares his shock at encountering cost barriers in American healthcare that reminded him of practicing in Nigeria. "I've not practiced medicine like that since I left Nigeria," he recalls telling a nurse after a patient couldn't afford a prescription, a jarring reality in the world's wealthiest nation. This perspective challenges us to reconsider what truly constitutes an advanced healthcare system.
Beyond comparing healthcare models, Dr. Adaka offers thoughtful insights on artificial intelligence in medicine, predicting it will augment rather than replace clinicians in the near term. His discussion on reconciling scientific practice with religious faith provides a nuanced view of how these seemingly opposing worldviews can harmoniously coexist, drawing inspiration from scientists like Dr. Francis Collins who bridge this perceived divide.
For pre-health students and practicing clinicians alike, Dr. Adaka's global perspective demonstrates how understanding different approaches to healthcare delivery enhances our ability to improve medicine at home. It's a powerful reminder that sometimes we need to look beyond our borders to solve problems within them.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ashley (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast where
I take you into and behind thescenes of the medical world to
provide you with a deeperunderstanding of the human side
of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to incredible members of the
(00:22):
healthcare field and uncovertheir unique stories, the joys
and challenges they face andwhat drives them in their
careers.
It's access you want andstories you need, whether you're
a pre-health student or simplycurious about the healthcare
field.
I invite you to join me as wetake a conversational and
personal look into the lives andminds of leaders in medicine.
(00:44):
I don't want you to miss asingle one of these
conversations, so make sure thatyou subscribe to this podcast,
which will automatically notifyyou when new episodes are
dropped, and follow us onInstagram and Facebook at shadow
me next, where we will reviewhighlights from this
conversation and where I'll giveyou sneak previews of our
upcoming guests.
From Nigeria to the UK, to theUnited States, dr Adaka has
(01:08):
practiced emergency medicine onthree continents.
In this episode, we trace hisfascinating career path, from
his early aspirations ofbecoming a surgeon to
discovering emergency medicinethanks to a surprising source,
the TV show ER.
But beyond the geography andaccolades, dr Adaka shares
powerful stories aboutpracticing medicine in vastly
(01:31):
different healthcare systems andhow those experiences shaped
his philosophy of care.
We'll explore cost barriers inthe United States that echo his
time in developing nations, thepromise and limitations of AI in
medicine, and the surprisingways his faith deepens his
(01:51):
commitment to science andhealing.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests anddo not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany other agency, organization,
(02:15):
employer or company.
This is Shadow Me Next with DrGregory Adaka.
Hey, dr Adaka, thank you somuch for joining us today.
I cannot wait to discuss yourjourney in medicine, because it
does not only span time, itspans continents.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (02:32):
Thank you very much, Ashley.
Ashley (02:33):
You started in the UK, and then Nigeria, and then the
United States.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (02:40):
Well, if you're talking from my life
story, yes, started in the UK.
I was born in Manchester in thenorth of England.
I left the UK when I was stillyoung I was eight in Nigeria
because my parents were Nigerianand they returned to the
country.
As was a trend back in the1960s and 1970s, they would go
(03:00):
to the UK or America to gethigher education, the plan being
that they they go back toNigeria and land a great job or
something like that.
But, as often happens, they goabroad to study and then start
having kids and things like thatand plans all change.
Even up until the 80s, therewere many Nigerians in the UK or
in America for that matterwho'd been there for more than
(03:22):
10 years and started raising afamily People like me.
We later returned with ourparents to Nigeria where,
essentially, I did most of mygrowing up.
I like to tell people I waseducated in Nigeria because I
got to Nigeria when I was stillin elementary school.
So all of my education, fromthe elementary through secondary
to university level, was donein Nigeria, started to practice
(03:43):
medicine there with a heart ofreturning to the UK.
I wanted to be a surgeon at thetime.
I was in Nigeria for five yearsas a doctor before I went to the
UK where I stumbled uponemergency medicine.
That specialty does not exist,or did not exist in Nigeria at
the time.
It was still a relatively newspecialty even in the UK at that
(04:05):
time in the mid-90s Same inAmerica, as a matter of fact,
because the emergency medicineas a field was just a part of
somebody else's specialty.
I remember in England in the1970s it was called casualty,
later changed its name toaccident and emergency.
That's the name of thespecialty and the accidents and
emergency department.
The ER is a very Americanexpression, the emergency room
(04:27):
and it's a specialty thatdeveloped again through the
1970s and by the 1980s it hadbecome an arm of surgeons
basically, and that wassimilarly how it started in the
UK, although when it became aroyal college we were under the
auspices of the Royal College ofAnesthetists.
It became a royal college, wewere under the auspices of the
(04:47):
Royal College of Anesthetists,and emergency medicine is an
offshoot of internal medicinerather than an offshoot of
surgery in the UK which Idiscovered.
My inspiration to become anemergency physician in the UK in
the mid-90s was one certaintelevision show that I saw
several times, which you mayhave heard of, is called ER.
Ashley (05:08):
I love it.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (05:10):
And it was quite to my surprise.
A few years after that Idiscovered that what had
happened to me was actually athing.
Quite a few medical studentswere inspired to join the
practice of emergency medicinebecause of the show ER, because
back in the 90s it was very,very popular and was enjoyed by
so many people.
It was a lot better than, say,general Hospital and the other
(05:31):
soap operas of the 1970s and1980s.
It was on another level.
Even I as a doctor used towatch it and think this looks
pretty good and I got bit by theER bug, as I say, and the rest
is history the ER bug, as I say,and the rest is history.
Ashley (05:47):
You know, what is so amazing to me is that you have
worked in, you've worked as adoctor on three continents.
I mean not just three differenthospitals.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (05:54):
I've lost count of the hospitals.
Ashley (05:57):
I'm sure you have, which is amazing.
But what are some, maybe one ortwo of the most striking
differences that you've noticed,either?
Working for the NHS in the UK,I would imagine, versus
healthcare systems in Nigeria,maybe, and the United States?
Dr. Gregory Adaka (06:12):
Okay, the NHS is a national health service of
England and Wales and there's anational health service of
Scotland as well, but the UK,basically the health system, 90%
of the people who receivehealthcare in the UK do so
through the National HealthService.
There is no National HealthService in Nigeria.
I can tell you that.
And then again, anything I tellyou about healthcare in Nigeria
(06:35):
is what?
30 years old, because I leftNigeria in the mid 90s, so a lot
has changed.
A lot has changed.
A couple of years ago, my unclehad severe kidney failure and
was told my uncle in Nigeria,that is.
I got wind that he required akidney transplant and I thought,
(06:57):
gosh, how are we going tomanage that?
But the information I wasgetting from the Nigerian
practitioners was as if it wasroutine.
So I had to like put my modernNigeria hat on to recognize the
fact that, yes, they do dokidney transplants routinely in
Nigeria these days, unlike 30 or40 years ago.
(07:18):
So yes, they have come a longway.
But I think the distinctivedifference between practicing in
Nigeria as opposed topracticing in the UK for me was
the access the access totechnology and even things like
medication.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're in Ghana or Egypt or
Guatemala or just name thedeveloping country Vietnam.
(07:41):
The major restriction is justits cost.
The more money you've got, thebetter access to healthcare you
have.
Going to the UK, it was veryrefreshing to be able to
practice medicine where you canprescribe a medication and the
issue is does he care to get itor not?
Not a matter of can he affordit.
Everybody gets it.
You need this treatment, allright, fair enough, and I'll
(08:02):
take this days off, work orwhatnot.
But it's not an issue of can heafford it or not.
It doesn't matter what thetreatment is, and to me that was
just the blessing of living ina Western country where you can
practice easy medicine.
Focus on the diagnosis and onyour treatment, and that's all
you need to bother about.
Of course, the other socialdeterminants of health you need
(08:22):
to be concerned about as well.
Bother about, of course, theother social determinants of
health you need to be concernedabout as well, that's for sure.
But you don't have therestriction of if I prescribe
this medication for this family,are they going to look at me
like I'm crazy thinking doctor?
You know we can't afford thatand there's nothing we can do
about it.
That's the horror of practicingmedicine in an undeveloped
nation.
Coming to the US, I mean we'dall heard about what America is
(08:45):
like.
The stereotype is thathealthcare is so expensive here,
nobody can get it.
That's obviously anexaggeration, right?
Because I mean I'd come toAmerica several times over the
years before we finally moved in2014.
So I was familiar with thesystem to a good extent.
But it did strike me that thereare some similarities and this
(09:07):
is shocking between my practiceof medicine in Nigeria and my
practice of medicine in the US.
Ashley (09:12):
Wow.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (09:13):
Yes, shortly after I got here I was working
in New Hampshire in an ERdepartment.
I'd probably been working forabout a month or a month and a
half.
I remember this story vividly Ayoung woman came into the ER
and she had some sort of earpain.
I believe it was, or sinusinfection.
Working for about a month or amonth and a half I remember this
story vividly A young womancame into the ER and she had
some sort of ear pain.
I believe it was, or sinusinfection.
Either way, I prescribedAugmentin Cuomoxiclav as an
antibiotic 10-day prescription.
(09:35):
Here you go, after I'd finisheddealing with the case, gave her
a paperwork and she left.
Then, about half an hour later,I got a call from the
receptionist who said Dr Adaka,there's a call for you from the
pharmacy.
I said which pharmacy?
The hospital pharmacy?
He said no, the pharmacy justdown the street.
I thought that was odd.
I've never got a call from apharmacy before practicing in
England.
So I picked up the phone.
The chap says you, dr Adaka.
(09:55):
I said yes, I am.
Well.
There's this young lady who's inhere.
You prescribed augmenting forher and she can't afford it.
And that was a rude shock to me.
This is america right?
I mean, I prescribed theaugment and it's what she.
What else can you give her?
What else can I give her?
That's the appropriateantibiotic for the infection I
believe that she has said.
Well, she said you can't afford.
It's 80 something dollars.
(10:15):
Why was it so expensive in thefirst place?
Said he could do some sort ofdiscount to 60 or so, but she
doesn't have that kind of a job.
She, she's younger, she can'tafford it.
I said, all right, how aboutKeflex?
And he said, okay, we can trythat Instead.
It was much cheaper and Ithought this is a compromise
because I didn't feel that itwas an approved antibiotic with
enough spectrum activity or thiscoverage that would not be
(10:37):
resisted by the organisms thatshe probably had.
But what could I do?
So I just got the Keflex andthen I hung up and I turned to
the nurse who was standing by meand I said I've not practiced
medicine like that since I leftNigeria.
She looked at me a bitastounded, but yes, that was my
sort of wake up call of there isa similarity with all the
(10:58):
technology and all that we haveand, believe you me, the most
cutting edge technology inhealthcare and science comes
from this country.
I can say that proudly becauseI'm an American now.
Ashley (11:07):
So yes, it is true, but it's unfortunate that it's just
not as available to everyone, asother Western countries have
managed to make the sametechnology available to their
own people.
That's such a good point andyou know, honestly, I don't know
what's better.
I mean, they're just.
You almost can't compare themapples and oranges.
Do we want cutting edgetechnology but leaving people in
(11:30):
the dust when we do it?
Or do we want maybe not themost cutting edge stuff and
protect all people you know andgive people the antibiotics that
they need?
That's a hard one.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (11:42):
If we take the first option, manage with
reasonable technology andeverybody gets it.
That sounds like the horribleterm.
I've heard a lot dating back tothe 1980s, but in fact I think
it goes back further than that,and that's socialized medicine.
I don't approve of the term,nor do I approve of the practice
.
It does exist, obviously, insome communist countries, but
(12:03):
that's not what you have inother Western nations, although
that's the label they've oftengot from this side of the pond.
The reality is that not all,but most of the cutting-edge
technology and medications comefrom the United States.
That's true, but not all of it.
Every now and then you runacross stuff that was invented
in Japan or Germany, or the testyou baby in vitro fertilization
(12:26):
was the first successful in theUK.
Western nations have, let me say, wealthy, advanced nations have
one thing in common, and that'sthat they tend to lead the
world when it comes tobreakthroughs in technology.
The United States leads theleaders.
You know what I mean.
Whatever we get here, whetherit's an MRI nucleus scan or some
(12:46):
latest robotic surgery,whatever we get here eventually
gets over there, whether that beJapan or Australia or Sweden or
Finland, everybody gets it, andvery quickly.
The difference is when theseother countries get hold of this
technology or these latest newdrugs, they get it and everybody
in their country has access toit, whereas it was invented here
(13:10):
and here, where it came from,not everybody has got access to
it.
It's frustrating, but it's theworld we live in, so so that
hopefully answers the question.
We don't need to have a worldin this country certainly not in
this country or any otherwealthy country where healthcare
is rationed and it doesn'texist in wealthy nations they
(13:33):
all have the best technologyavailable because, just like
everybody's got an iPhone,everybody's got a computer on
their desktop and everybodytakes a lot of the technology
for granted in wealthy Westernnations.
The same thing with ourhealthcare, but it's just that
it's free and available overthere and maybe a lot more
expensive over here.
Ashley (13:53):
Unbelievable.
It's unbelievable and you know,dr Adaka, it brings up a really
good question, because I'm surethere is a person listening
that says he's so impressive.
He's practiced medicine onthree continents, he understands
medicine in a number ofdifferent countries, but why
does that matter to me?
(14:15):
As a pre-health student in theUnited States, maybe I'm not
going to go practice in the UKor in Nigeria, and as a PA which
is what I am there might noteven be a profession, a PA
profession, in some of thesecountries.
So I guess the question forsome of these pre-health
students would be I'm in America, why does it impact me what
(14:35):
other countries are doing?
And I think it's a goodquestion, but I know you have a
great answer to this.
I admire your faith in me, isn'the great?
Well, dr Adak and I did nothave the opportunity to discuss
a quality question, but at thispoint it brings up an absolutely
fabulous interview questionthat I could see you hearing at
(14:57):
some point on your interviewjourney.
See you hearing at some pointon your interview journey.
The question would be why doesit impact me what other
countries are doing with theirhealthcare systems?
So, as you'll find, dr Adakaemphasizes the importance of
perspective, understandingglobal systems and how it gives
us depth, almost like binocularvision in the brain.
(15:20):
Without it, our view ofhealthcare falls flat.
So why should a pre-healthstudent care about how medicine
works in the UK or Nigeria?
You may never practice there,but the answer is perspective.
Knowing how others solve thesame problem can shape how you
lead, what you question and howboldly you advocate for change.
(15:43):
Listen in to how Dr Adakabeautifully explains this
concept.
Keep in mind that there's moreinterview prep, such as mock
interviews and personalstatement review over on
shadowmenextcom.
There you'll find amazingresources to help you as you
prepare to answer your ownquality questions.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (16:02):
Well, I would say the importance of it, as is
the case in many other thingsin life, is perspective.
You get a better perspective onyour own reality if you can see
the reality in many otherdifferent places.
In many other different places.
(16:24):
The eye, for example.
All animals that have got twoeyes on the front of their heads
.
Whether you be an owl or ahuman being, or a monkey, or
even a dog, they've all got twoeyes on the front of their head,
even though they're slightlyoff to one side, unlike most
birds that have an eye on eitherside.
Now, what the birds have is avery wide vision that goes
almost 300, some degrees, butthey have very narrow binocular
(16:45):
vision where both eyes can seethe same part of the visual
field.
Animals that have got binocularvision, both your eyes are
pointing roughly in the samedirection or seeing two images
of the two visions of the sameimage slightly different, and
what that enables us to do is todetermine depth of field.
(17:06):
That gives us 3d vision and wetake it for granted.
But if you lose one eye, youclose one eye.
You suddenly realize you can nolonger assess depth.
Get better depth in yourunderstanding of many things in
life and in particular in yourunderstanding of many things in
life and in particular in yourunderstanding of medicine and
healthcare, is improved if yougo to other places and see how
they do it.
(17:26):
I believe one of the reasons whywe struggle here in our country
and I mean when I say ourcountry, I mean the United
States about improving ourhealthcare system is because
we're so very insular so wedon't see how it's done
elsewhere and so we run with theimpression that we're doing our
best here.
We're the wealthiest country inthe world.
We have most of them.
(17:48):
Cutting-edge technology isinvented here.
For sure we have the besthealthcare, even though we
struggle.
Well, it can't be betteranywhere else, can it?
And if you don't go anywhereelse, then you'll never know.
Even if you're a doctor and youdon't see any reason why you're
going to leave your family andgo to some other country and
practice medicine in Sweden, beaware of what healthcare is like
(18:09):
in these other nations.
I did a course in comparativehealthcare when I was in Cornell
doing my master's in healthcareadministration.
It was very eye-opening.
I was aware of a lot of itbefore, but it really honed my
skills in the area ofcomparative medicine and showed
me a whole lot, so I wouldadvise anybody else.
You don't have to go to anothercountry, but find out how other
(18:30):
health care systems work so youcan compare it with your own.
When you are in a position tomake changes and you'd be
surprised at how many peoplelisten to your podcast will be
at some point in a position tomake some changes, to do and not
just believe anything you hearoff the internet about what life
is like in these other nations,especially as pertains to
healthcare.
Ashley (18:50):
As expected, an absolutely fabulous, fabulous
answer, and not one that justapplies to medicine.
You know, this is such animportant point and it's
something that I think we arelosing so much of is the ability
to converse.
And conversing does notnecessarily mean you and I are
agreeing on the things we'retalking about.
We can have very differentopinions, and those different
(19:13):
opinions and the different waysthat we approach things.
If we listen and if weunderstand, then we can both get
better or at least have adeeper understanding of those
differences.
And that's not just in medicine, although I think, gosh, I
think we could make such a majorimprovements.
And I was just speaking withit's so interesting I was just
speaking with a anesthesiologistassistant so PAs, but for
(19:36):
anesthesia.
She was telling me about theway they are educated and it is
so different than the way we'reeducated and yet we have a
similar role in the healthcareteam, just different fields.
I was listening to it, justthinking at first it seems so
foreign and then, of course, asshe was talking about it, I
thought you know, we couldreally improve.
If we just took a little bit ofthis with our PA education, it
(20:00):
could be so much better, which,of course, you know this might
be a good segue to talking alittle bit about AI and
healthcare, because I think youhave seen so much change over
the course of your time inmedicine and your geographic
location in medicine.
You've seen major improvements.
I think AI it's here to stay.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (20:20):
It's here to stay.
Ashley (20:21):
But is AI in healthcare, do you think?
In your opinion, is it morelikely to empower clinicians or
replace them?
Dr. Gregory Adaka (20:30):
I don't have a crystal ball and I can't see
that far out.
When I say that far out, I meana couple of generations from
now, I can't tell.
But I can say at least in theshort run, the next five, 10, 15
, maybe 20 years or more, ai isgoing to vastly improve, or
(20:51):
certainly in the next 10 years,vastly improve the way in which
we perform our duties inhealthcare.
It's going to augment.
It cannot replace certainly inmost fields cannot replace but
it will certainly augment.
I do see a day in I don't know,maybe the not too distant
future, where you would be ableto replace a surgeon with a
(21:13):
robot.
After all, we use robots insurgery now, but it's controlled
by the hands of the surgeon.
If we have a level of I hate touse the word intelligence,
because robots don't really haveintelligence but a level of AI
that can do what a surgeon cando and think the way a surgeon
can think, my goodness, I thinkit will be possible in 20 or 30
(21:34):
years' time where a robot willdo an appendectomy on its own
without needing a human being.
I think it's certainly possible.
Well, we haven't got overautonomous driving yet, so we're
still on our way.
Certain cuts the wrong bloodvessel and you know there'll
always have to be some sort ofbackup if the robot does the
wrong thing.
For a human being to take overand say, ah no, like this
instead.
But certainly I think in theshort term, there are many ways
(21:58):
in which AI can augment ourpractice.
A few years ago, when I firstheard I think I was still in New
Hampshire then this would havebeen in 2014, 2015, thereabouts
heard about how computers wereable to read these scans and
x-rays and give, in someinstances, a more accurate
diagnosis than a humanradiologist.
I thought, gosh, and that waswhat 10 years ago.
(22:21):
We've come a long way sincethen.
Right now, don't quote me, butI believe that that AI reading
of most radiographs and CT scansis more accurate than the human
being.
It doesn't make human error,mistakes.
You know bias or seeing thingsthat are not supposed to be
there, but you think they'rethere.
(22:42):
I can see, unfortunately,radiologists being the first to
be replaced by software, evenpathologists reading slides,
making decisions about, and Ithink even certainly in the
short term, you will still needto have a human being that vets
these cases and says yay or nayat some point.
But those are the ways in whichI believe AI can actually help
(23:03):
us to become better and dothings faster, where one doctor
can be 10 doctors because he'sgot software systems doing what
he can't do or can do.
But they can do it a lot fasterBecause AI is good for mundane
tasks that normally bore humanbeings, who can get mentally
fatigued and begin to create andmake errors.
(23:23):
The machine doesn't get tiredand just goes on and on.
So I believe, yes, it'llaugment our practice, but it
won't replace us, at least notyet.
Ashley (23:31):
Not yet.
That's exactly right, Thank you.
First of all, thank you forsuch a hopeful, a hopeful take
on AI.
It is nice you know.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (23:38):
I For our lifetime, right?
Ashley (23:39):
I don't know about my kids' lifetime it's different
but At least for us right now,before I wrap up, you know we've
talked about our robots, whichis always fun.
You are a man of faith and Ithink that it's so interesting
to jump from robots andartificial intelligence in
medicine and then kind of shiftit and turn it on his head and
talk a little bit about faith inmedicine.
And I guess the easiestquestion here is how can someone
(24:03):
who's so committed to thescientific method also maintain
a deep religious faith?
And how does that for you?
How does that translate on theday-to-day?
Dr. Gregory Adaka (24:13):
Well, you've asked an interesting question.
I'll tackle the first part ofthe question how am I able to
marry my faith with mycommitment to the scientific
method and then I'll talk abouthow it impacts my day-to-day.
People who are not of areligious faith understand that
although one may have areligious faith, that doesn't
mean that they walk blind intothings.
(24:34):
Faith is not simply a lack ofevidence and you just trust that
something is the way it isbecause you believe it's that
way.
There has to be evidence behindit.
This means that we all havefaith.
Even an atheist has faith,because you believe in certain
things where the evidence is not100%.
(24:54):
There may be those who wouldargue that the scientific method
requires that we take 100% ofevidence and that's all.
The reality is it's never 100%.
I can't say that if I stood upfrom this chair and I sat down
again, that the chair wouldstill be there.
There could be some quantumhole in physics somewhere that
enables the chair to disappear,but it never happens because
(25:16):
it's only a one in a 10 trillionchance possibility that that
could happen and a space timewarp wormhole would open up.
But if it did happen, I wouldbe shocked because I believe and
I trusted that the chair wouldbe there.
How did I believe the chairwould be there?
Because at my age I have livedmy life knowing that when you
get up from a chair, if nobodytouches it when you sit down,
(25:37):
it'll still be there.
Now that might be different ifI was a year old or a toddler,
but at this age I've taken thesethings for granted.
So that's the faith that I have.
This is how things happen.
I know that when I wake up inthe morning, the sun is going to
rise and then the evening isgoing to set.
If some astrophysicist told methat that's not going to happen
tomorrow, I would need moreevidence.
(25:58):
The point is that you can't knoweverything 100%.
There's always a gap ofinformation, because no
knowledge is perfect.
That gap is your trust in thatwhich the evidence has led you
to the edge.
And the last bit is bridged byfaith.
Now, if that faith is areligious faith, it's exactly
the same thing.
I don't simply believe in Godbecause, oh, the Bible tells me.
(26:19):
I've got enough evidence thatI've seen that makes me believe
there is a God out there, if youknow what I mean.
And for all those who do have areligious conviction, I believe
they see the same thing.
And if you don't have areligious conviction, I believe
they see the same thing.
And if you don't have areligious conviction, then you
are still operating in faith,because the evidence cannot
disprove the existence of God orthe supernatural.
(26:39):
I'm not an astrophysicist and Iwill not step into territory and
argue on that point, but Ibelieve there's enough
information, which I first beganto hear about back in the early
80s.
They were talking about the BigBang and how they'd gotten to
within fractions of a second ofthe occurrence of the Big Bang,
describing what would havehappened.
Now I know a lot more about itthan I did back then.
(27:02):
And, yes, physicists havegotten in their investigations
to that close to when the BigBang happened.
But you can't go to the momentof the Big Bang with any sort of
investigation, because that'sthe limit of physics Space and
time.
The episode we now refer to, thehuge expansion of the
(27:23):
singularity that occurred 13billion years ago, that we refer
to as the Big Bang.
But what happened before then?
Silly question.
There can't be a before becausethere was no time, all right.
So why did the singularityexplode in the big bang?
We don't know, can we ever findout?
The simple answer is no,because that's beyond physics.
So is there an existence beyondthe singularity?
There is, and human beings, for100,000 years, have always felt
(27:48):
that there's something else outthere, and we keep thinking
that science will.
Well, back in the Enlightenmentdays, they felt that science
will eliminate that altogether,and science was everything, and
everything before theEnlightenment was just simply
superstition.
The reality is that science hasled us to the edge of the cliff
(28:08):
and has shown us yes, there isthat which exists beyond the
singularity and it cannot beinvestigated by physics.
That is where my mind is when itcomes to things of faith or the
supernatural.
There's a lot more to it thanthat, of course, but that is to
me foundational.
A couple of people I admire,like Dr Francis Collins, who led
the team that finally decodedthe human genome, for which they
won the Nobel Prize.
(28:29):
He is a man of faith and when heled the NIH but he led the NIH
for years one of the questionsthat many asked him at the time
was how can you, a man of faith,lead a scientific institution
of this sort of repute?
And he was able to defendhimself adequately and he was
given the position and, as Isaid, he led the NIH.
I think he just retired fromthe NIH a couple of years ago,
but yet he's a man of faith, andthose are the sort of people
(28:51):
that I admire, that have a faithand understand that it does not
prevent them from investigatingscience.
In fact, my belief in Godenables me to pursue science
even further, because I believethere's so much that that
supreme being has put in placeand given us, mere mortals, a
glimpse of, and the excitementis discovering more and more of
(29:12):
what that supernatural being,whom we call God, has put in
place in the existence that weare living in.
Ashley (29:18):
And that is it sounds like that's what translates into
your life.
In medicine it does.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (29:22):
I try to live my life according to the
dictates not by my own strength,but an inner strength that
comes from knowing God.
Ashley (29:28):
I often fall short of that and some of my patients
will tell you that, especiallyin the ER.
But, yes, I do my best.
I think it's fabulous.
Dr Adaka, you are incredible.
I am so grateful to have beenable to talk to you today.
Your love for this career istangible and you've seen it.
You've seen it and the peoplein it at its best and also on
days at its worst.
(29:49):
So thank you for persevering,thank you for sharing that with
us and thank you so much forjoining us today on Shadow Me
Next.
I'm so grateful.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (29:57):
Thank you very much.
Ashley Appreciate that.
Ashley (29:59):
Thank you so very much for listening to this episode of
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday, as always.
If you have any questions, letme know on Facebook or Instagram
Access.
You want stories you need?
You're always invited to shadowme next.
Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast where
I take you into and behind thescenes of the medical world to
provide you with a deeperunderstanding of the human side
of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to incredible members of the
(00:22):
healthcare field and uncovertheir unique stories, the joys
and challenges they face andwhat drives them in their
careers.
It's access you want andstories you need, whether you're
a pre-health student or simplycurious about the healthcare
field.
I invite you to join me as wetake a conversational and
personal look into the lives andminds of leaders in medicine.
(00:44):
I don't want you to miss asingle one of these
conversations, so make sure thatyou subscribe to this podcast,
which will automatically notifyyou when new episodes are
dropped, and follow us onInstagram and Facebook at shadow
me next, where we will reviewhighlights from this
conversation and where I'll giveyou sneak previews of our
upcoming guests.
From Nigeria to the UK, to theUnited States, dr Adaka has
(01:08):
practiced emergency medicine onthree continents.
In this episode, we trace hisfascinating career path, from
his early aspirations ofbecoming a surgeon to
discovering emergency medicinethanks to a surprising source,
the TV show ER.
But beyond the geography andaccolades, dr Adaka shares
powerful stories aboutpracticing medicine in vastly
(01:31):
different healthcare systems andhow those experiences shaped
his philosophy of care.
We'll explore cost barriers inthe United States that echo his
time in developing nations, thepromise and limitations of AI in
medicine, and the surprisingways his faith deepens his
(01:51):
commitment to science andhealing.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests anddo not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany other agency, organization,
(02:15):
employer or company.
This is Shadow Me Next with DrGregory Adaka.
Hey, dr Adaka, thank you somuch for joining us today.
I cannot wait to discuss yourjourney in medicine, because it
does not only span time, itspans continents.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (02:32):
Thank you very much, Ashley.
Ashley (02:33):
You started in the UK, and then Nigeria, and then the
United States.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (02:40):
Well, if you're talking from my life
story, yes, started in the UK.
I was born in Manchester in thenorth of England.
I left the UK when I was stillyoung I was eight in Nigeria
because my parents were Nigerianand they returned to the
country.
As was a trend back in the1960s and 1970s, they would go
(03:00):
to the UK or America to gethigher education, the plan being
that they they go back toNigeria and land a great job or
something like that.
But, as often happens, they goabroad to study and then start
having kids and things like thatand plans all change.
Even up until the 80s, therewere many Nigerians in the UK or
in America for that matterwho'd been there for more than
(03:22):
10 years and started raising afamily People like me.
We later returned with ourparents to Nigeria where,
essentially, I did most of mygrowing up.
I like to tell people I waseducated in Nigeria because I
got to Nigeria when I was stillin elementary school.
So all of my education, fromthe elementary through secondary
to university level, was donein Nigeria, started to practice
(03:43):
medicine there with a heart ofreturning to the UK.
I wanted to be a surgeon at thetime.
I was in Nigeria for five yearsas a doctor before I went to the
UK where I stumbled uponemergency medicine.
That specialty does not exist,or did not exist in Nigeria at
the time.
It was still a relatively newspecialty even in the UK at that
(04:05):
time in the mid-90s Same inAmerica, as a matter of fact,
because the emergency medicineas a field was just a part of
somebody else's specialty.
I remember in England in the1970s it was called casualty,
later changed its name toaccident and emergency.
That's the name of thespecialty and the accidents and
emergency department.
The ER is a very Americanexpression, the emergency room
(04:27):
and it's a specialty thatdeveloped again through the
1970s and by the 1980s it hadbecome an arm of surgeons
basically, and that wassimilarly how it started in the
UK, although when it became aroyal college we were under the
auspices of the Royal College ofAnesthetists.
It became a royal college, wewere under the auspices of the
(04:47):
Royal College of Anesthetists,and emergency medicine is an
offshoot of internal medicinerather than an offshoot of
surgery in the UK which Idiscovered.
My inspiration to become anemergency physician in the UK in
the mid-90s was one certaintelevision show that I saw
several times, which you mayhave heard of, is called ER.
Ashley (05:08):
I love it.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (05:10):
And it was quite to my surprise.
A few years after that Idiscovered that what had
happened to me was actually athing.
Quite a few medical studentswere inspired to join the
practice of emergency medicinebecause of the show ER, because
back in the 90s it was very,very popular and was enjoyed by
so many people.
It was a lot better than, say,general Hospital and the other
(05:31):
soap operas of the 1970s and1980s.
It was on another level.
Even I as a doctor used towatch it and think this looks
pretty good and I got bit by theER bug, as I say, and the rest
is history the ER bug, as I say,and the rest is history.
Ashley (05:47):
You know, what is so amazing to me is that you have
worked in, you've worked as adoctor on three continents.
I mean not just three differenthospitals.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (05:54):
I've lost count of the hospitals.
Ashley (05:57):
I'm sure you have, which is amazing.
But what are some, maybe one ortwo of the most striking
differences that you've noticed,either?
Working for the NHS in the UK,I would imagine, versus
healthcare systems in Nigeria,maybe, and the United States?
Dr. Gregory Adaka (06:12):
Okay, the NHS is a national health service of
England and Wales and there's anational health service of
Scotland as well, but the UK,basically the health system, 90%
of the people who receivehealthcare in the UK do so
through the National HealthService.
There is no National HealthService in Nigeria.
I can tell you that.
And then again, anything I tellyou about healthcare in Nigeria
(06:35):
is what?
30 years old, because I leftNigeria in the mid 90s, so a lot
has changed.
A lot has changed.
A couple of years ago, my unclehad severe kidney failure and
was told my uncle in Nigeria,that is.
I got wind that he required akidney transplant and I thought,
(06:57):
gosh, how are we going tomanage that?
But the information I wasgetting from the Nigerian
practitioners was as if it wasroutine.
So I had to like put my modernNigeria hat on to recognize the
fact that, yes, they do dokidney transplants routinely in
Nigeria these days, unlike 30 or40 years ago.
(07:18):
So yes, they have come a longway.
But I think the distinctivedifference between practicing in
Nigeria as opposed topracticing in the UK for me was
the access the access totechnology and even things like
medication.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're in Ghana or Egypt or
Guatemala or just name thedeveloping country Vietnam.
(07:41):
The major restriction is justits cost.
The more money you've got, thebetter access to healthcare you
have.
Going to the UK, it was veryrefreshing to be able to
practice medicine where you canprescribe a medication and the
issue is does he care to get itor not?
Not a matter of can he affordit.
Everybody gets it.
You need this treatment, allright, fair enough, and I'll
(08:02):
take this days off, work orwhatnot.
But it's not an issue of can heafford it or not.
It doesn't matter what thetreatment is, and to me that was
just the blessing of living ina Western country where you can
practice easy medicine.
Focus on the diagnosis and onyour treatment, and that's all
you need to bother about.
Of course, the other socialdeterminants of health you need
(08:22):
to be concerned about as well.
Bother about, of course, theother social determinants of
health you need to be concernedabout as well, that's for sure.
But you don't have therestriction of if I prescribe
this medication for this family,are they going to look at me
like I'm crazy thinking doctor?
You know we can't afford thatand there's nothing we can do
about it.
That's the horror of practicingmedicine in an undeveloped
nation.
Coming to the US, I mean we'dall heard about what America is
(08:45):
like.
The stereotype is thathealthcare is so expensive here,
nobody can get it.
That's obviously anexaggeration, right?
Because I mean I'd come toAmerica several times over the
years before we finally moved in2014.
So I was familiar with thesystem to a good extent.
But it did strike me that thereare some similarities and this
(09:07):
is shocking between my practiceof medicine in Nigeria and my
practice of medicine in the US.
Ashley (09:12):
Wow.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (09:13):
Yes, shortly after I got here I was working
in New Hampshire in an ERdepartment.
I'd probably been working forabout a month or a month and a
half.
I remember this story vividly Ayoung woman came into the ER
and she had some sort of earpain.
I believe it was, or sinusinfection.
Working for about a month or amonth and a half I remember this
story vividly A young womancame into the ER and she had
some sort of ear pain.
I believe it was, or sinusinfection.
Either way, I prescribedAugmentin Cuomoxiclav as an
antibiotic 10-day prescription.
(09:35):
Here you go, after I'd finisheddealing with the case, gave her
a paperwork and she left.
Then, about half an hour later,I got a call from the
receptionist who said Dr Adaka,there's a call for you from the
pharmacy.
I said which pharmacy?
The hospital pharmacy?
He said no, the pharmacy justdown the street.
I thought that was odd.
I've never got a call from apharmacy before practicing in
England.
So I picked up the phone.
The chap says you, dr Adaka.
(09:55):
I said yes, I am.
Well.
There's this young lady who's inhere.
You prescribed augmenting forher and she can't afford it.
And that was a rude shock to me.
This is america right?
I mean, I prescribed theaugment and it's what she.
What else can you give her?
What else can I give her?
That's the appropriateantibiotic for the infection I
believe that she has said.
Well, she said you can't afford.
It's 80 something dollars.
(10:15):
Why was it so expensive in thefirst place?
Said he could do some sort ofdiscount to 60 or so, but she
doesn't have that kind of a job.
She, she's younger, she can'tafford it.
I said, all right, how aboutKeflex?
And he said, okay, we can trythat Instead.
It was much cheaper and Ithought this is a compromise
because I didn't feel that itwas an approved antibiotic with
enough spectrum activity or thiscoverage that would not be
(10:37):
resisted by the organisms thatshe probably had.
But what could I do?
So I just got the Keflex andthen I hung up and I turned to
the nurse who was standing by meand I said I've not practiced
medicine like that since I leftNigeria.
She looked at me a bitastounded, but yes, that was my
sort of wake up call of there isa similarity with all the
(10:58):
technology and all that we haveand, believe you me, the most
cutting edge technology inhealthcare and science comes
from this country.
I can say that proudly becauseI'm an American now.
Ashley (11:07):
So yes, it is true, but it's unfortunate that it's just
not as available to everyone, asother Western countries have
managed to make the sametechnology available to their
own people.
That's such a good point andyou know, honestly, I don't know
what's better.
I mean, they're just.
You almost can't compare themapples and oranges.
Do we want cutting edgetechnology but leaving people in
(11:30):
the dust when we do it?
Or do we want maybe not themost cutting edge stuff and
protect all people you know andgive people the antibiotics that
they need?
That's a hard one.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (11:42):
If we take the first option, manage with
reasonable technology andeverybody gets it.
That sounds like the horribleterm.
I've heard a lot dating back tothe 1980s, but in fact I think
it goes back further than that,and that's socialized medicine.
I don't approve of the term,nor do I approve of the practice
.
It does exist, obviously, insome communist countries, but
(12:03):
that's not what you have inother Western nations, although
that's the label they've oftengot from this side of the pond.
The reality is that not all,but most of the cutting-edge
technology and medications comefrom the United States.
That's true, but not all of it.
Every now and then you runacross stuff that was invented
in Japan or Germany, or the testyou baby in vitro fertilization
(12:26):
was the first successful in theUK.
Western nations have, let me say, wealthy, advanced nations have
one thing in common, and that'sthat they tend to lead the
world when it comes tobreakthroughs in technology.
The United States leads theleaders.
You know what I mean.
Whatever we get here, whetherit's an MRI nucleus scan or some
(12:46):
latest robotic surgery,whatever we get here eventually
gets over there, whether that beJapan or Australia or Sweden or
Finland, everybody gets it, andvery quickly.
The difference is when theseother countries get hold of this
technology or these latest newdrugs, they get it and everybody
in their country has access toit, whereas it was invented here
(13:10):
and here, where it came from,not everybody has got access to
it.
It's frustrating, but it's theworld we live in, so so that
hopefully answers the question.
We don't need to have a worldin this country certainly not in
this country or any otherwealthy country where healthcare
is rationed and it doesn'texist in wealthy nations they
(13:33):
all have the best technologyavailable because, just like
everybody's got an iPhone,everybody's got a computer on
their desktop and everybodytakes a lot of the technology
for granted in wealthy Westernnations.
The same thing with ourhealthcare, but it's just that
it's free and available overthere and maybe a lot more
expensive over here.
Ashley (13:53):
Unbelievable.
It's unbelievable and you know,dr Adaka, it brings up a really
good question, because I'm surethere is a person listening
that says he's so impressive.
He's practiced medicine onthree continents, he understands
medicine in a number ofdifferent countries, but why
does that matter to me?
(14:15):
As a pre-health student in theUnited States, maybe I'm not
going to go practice in the UKor in Nigeria, and as a PA which
is what I am there might noteven be a profession, a PA
profession, in some of thesecountries.
So I guess the question forsome of these pre-health
students would be I'm in America, why does it impact me what
(14:35):
other countries are doing?
And I think it's a goodquestion, but I know you have a
great answer to this.
I admire your faith in me, isn'the great?
Well, dr Adak and I did nothave the opportunity to discuss
a quality question, but at thispoint it brings up an absolutely
fabulous interview questionthat I could see you hearing at
(14:57):
some point on your interviewjourney.
See you hearing at some pointon your interview journey.
The question would be why doesit impact me what other
countries are doing with theirhealthcare systems?
So, as you'll find, dr Adakaemphasizes the importance of
perspective, understandingglobal systems and how it gives
us depth, almost like binocularvision in the brain.
(15:20):
Without it, our view ofhealthcare falls flat.
So why should a pre-healthstudent care about how medicine
works in the UK or Nigeria?
You may never practice there,but the answer is perspective.
Knowing how others solve thesame problem can shape how you
lead, what you question and howboldly you advocate for change.
(15:43):
Listen in to how Dr Adakabeautifully explains this
concept.
Keep in mind that there's moreinterview prep, such as mock
interviews and personalstatement review over on
shadowmenextcom.
There you'll find amazingresources to help you as you
prepare to answer your ownquality questions.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (16:02):
Well, I would say the importance of it, as is
the case in many other thingsin life, is perspective.
You get a better perspective onyour own reality if you can see
the reality in many otherdifferent places.
In many other different places.
(16:24):
The eye, for example.
All animals that have got twoeyes on the front of their heads
.
Whether you be an owl or ahuman being, or a monkey, or
even a dog, they've all got twoeyes on the front of their head,
even though they're slightlyoff to one side, unlike most
birds that have an eye on eitherside.
Now, what the birds have is avery wide vision that goes
almost 300, some degrees, butthey have very narrow binocular
(16:45):
vision where both eyes can seethe same part of the visual
field.
Animals that have got binocularvision, both your eyes are
pointing roughly in the samedirection or seeing two images
of the two visions of the sameimage slightly different, and
what that enables us to do is todetermine depth of field.
(17:06):
That gives us 3d vision and wetake it for granted.
But if you lose one eye, youclose one eye.
You suddenly realize you can nolonger assess depth.
Get better depth in yourunderstanding of many things in
life and in particular in yourunderstanding of many things in
life and in particular in yourunderstanding of medicine and
healthcare, is improved if yougo to other places and see how
they do it.
(17:26):
I believe one of the reasons whywe struggle here in our country
and I mean when I say ourcountry, I mean the United
States about improving ourhealthcare system is because
we're so very insular so wedon't see how it's done
elsewhere and so we run with theimpression that we're doing our
best here.
We're the wealthiest country inthe world.
We have most of them.
(17:48):
Cutting-edge technology isinvented here.
For sure we have the besthealthcare, even though we
struggle.
Well, it can't be betteranywhere else, can it?
And if you don't go anywhereelse, then you'll never know.
Even if you're a doctor and youdon't see any reason why you're
going to leave your family andgo to some other country and
practice medicine in Sweden, beaware of what healthcare is like
(18:09):
in these other nations.
I did a course in comparativehealthcare when I was in Cornell
doing my master's in healthcareadministration.
It was very eye-opening.
I was aware of a lot of itbefore, but it really honed my
skills in the area ofcomparative medicine and showed
me a whole lot, so I wouldadvise anybody else.
You don't have to go to anothercountry, but find out how other
(18:30):
health care systems work so youcan compare it with your own.
When you are in a position tomake changes and you'd be
surprised at how many peoplelisten to your podcast will be
at some point in a position tomake some changes, to do and not
just believe anything you hearoff the internet about what life
is like in these other nations,especially as pertains to
healthcare.
Ashley (18:50):
As expected, an absolutely fabulous, fabulous
answer, and not one that justapplies to medicine.
You know, this is such animportant point and it's
something that I think we arelosing so much of is the ability
to converse.
And conversing does notnecessarily mean you and I are
agreeing on the things we'retalking about.
We can have very differentopinions, and those different
(19:13):
opinions and the different waysthat we approach things.
If we listen and if weunderstand, then we can both get
better or at least have adeeper understanding of those
differences.
And that's not just in medicine, although I think, gosh, I
think we could make such a majorimprovements.
And I was just speaking withit's so interesting I was just
speaking with a anesthesiologistassistant so PAs, but for
(19:36):
anesthesia.
She was telling me about theway they are educated and it is
so different than the way we'reeducated and yet we have a
similar role in the healthcareteam, just different fields.
I was listening to it, justthinking at first it seems so
foreign and then, of course, asshe was talking about it, I
thought you know, we couldreally improve.
If we just took a little bit ofthis with our PA education, it
(20:00):
could be so much better, which,of course, you know this might
be a good segue to talking alittle bit about AI and
healthcare, because I think youhave seen so much change over
the course of your time inmedicine and your geographic
location in medicine.
You've seen major improvements.
I think AI it's here to stay.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (20:20):
It's here to stay.
Ashley (20:21):
But is AI in healthcare, do you think?
In your opinion, is it morelikely to empower clinicians or
replace them?
Dr. Gregory Adaka (20:30):
I don't have a crystal ball and I can't see
that far out.
When I say that far out, I meana couple of generations from
now, I can't tell.
But I can say at least in theshort run, the next five, 10, 15
, maybe 20 years or more, ai isgoing to vastly improve, or
(20:51):
certainly in the next 10 years,vastly improve the way in which
we perform our duties inhealthcare.
It's going to augment.
It cannot replace certainly inmost fields cannot replace but
it will certainly augment.
I do see a day in I don't know,maybe the not too distant
future, where you would be ableto replace a surgeon with a
(21:13):
robot.
After all, we use robots insurgery now, but it's controlled
by the hands of the surgeon.
If we have a level of I hate touse the word intelligence,
because robots don't really haveintelligence but a level of AI
that can do what a surgeon cando and think the way a surgeon
can think, my goodness, I thinkit will be possible in 20 or 30
(21:34):
years' time where a robot willdo an appendectomy on its own
without needing a human being.
I think it's certainly possible.
Well, we haven't got overautonomous driving yet, so we're
still on our way.
Certain cuts the wrong bloodvessel and you know there'll
always have to be some sort ofbackup if the robot does the
wrong thing.
For a human being to take overand say, ah no, like this
instead.
But certainly I think in theshort term, there are many ways
(21:58):
in which AI can augment ourpractice.
A few years ago, when I firstheard I think I was still in New
Hampshire then this would havebeen in 2014, 2015, thereabouts
heard about how computers wereable to read these scans and
x-rays and give, in someinstances, a more accurate
diagnosis than a humanradiologist.
I thought, gosh, and that waswhat 10 years ago.
(22:21):
We've come a long way sincethen.
Right now, don't quote me, butI believe that that AI reading
of most radiographs and CT scansis more accurate than the human
being.
It doesn't make human error,mistakes.
You know bias or seeing thingsthat are not supposed to be
there, but you think they'rethere.
(22:42):
I can see, unfortunately,radiologists being the first to
be replaced by software, evenpathologists reading slides,
making decisions about, and Ithink even certainly in the
short term, you will still needto have a human being that vets
these cases and says yay or nayat some point.
But those are the ways in whichI believe AI can actually help
(23:03):
us to become better and dothings faster, where one doctor
can be 10 doctors because he'sgot software systems doing what
he can't do or can do.
But they can do it a lot fasterBecause AI is good for mundane
tasks that normally bore humanbeings, who can get mentally
fatigued and begin to create andmake errors.
(23:23):
The machine doesn't get tiredand just goes on and on.
So I believe, yes, it'llaugment our practice, but it
won't replace us, at least notyet.
Ashley (23:31):
Not yet.
That's exactly right, Thank you.
First of all, thank you forsuch a hopeful, a hopeful take
on AI.
It is nice you know.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (23:38):
I For our lifetime, right?
Ashley (23:39):
I don't know about my kids' lifetime it's different
but At least for us right now,before I wrap up, you know we've
talked about our robots, whichis always fun.
You are a man of faith and Ithink that it's so interesting
to jump from robots andartificial intelligence in
medicine and then kind of shiftit and turn it on his head and
talk a little bit about faith inmedicine.
And I guess the easiestquestion here is how can someone
(24:03):
who's so committed to thescientific method also maintain
a deep religious faith?
And how does that for you?
How does that translate on theday-to-day?
Dr. Gregory Adaka (24:13):
Well, you've asked an interesting question.
I'll tackle the first part ofthe question how am I able to
marry my faith with mycommitment to the scientific
method and then I'll talk abouthow it impacts my day-to-day.
People who are not of areligious faith understand that
although one may have areligious faith, that doesn't
mean that they walk blind intothings.
(24:34):
Faith is not simply a lack ofevidence and you just trust that
something is the way it isbecause you believe it's that
way.
There has to be evidence behindit.
This means that we all havefaith.
Even an atheist has faith,because you believe in certain
things where the evidence is not100%.
(24:54):
There may be those who wouldargue that the scientific method
requires that we take 100% ofevidence and that's all.
The reality is it's never 100%.
I can't say that if I stood upfrom this chair and I sat down
again, that the chair wouldstill be there.
There could be some quantumhole in physics somewhere that
enables the chair to disappear,but it never happens because
(25:16):
it's only a one in a 10 trillionchance possibility that that
could happen and a space timewarp wormhole would open up.
But if it did happen, I wouldbe shocked because I believe and
I trusted that the chair wouldbe there.
How did I believe the chairwould be there?
Because at my age I have livedmy life knowing that when you
get up from a chair, if nobodytouches it when you sit down,
(25:37):
it'll still be there.
Now that might be different ifI was a year old or a toddler,
but at this age I've taken thesethings for granted.
So that's the faith that I have.
This is how things happen.
I know that when I wake up inthe morning, the sun is going to
rise and then the evening isgoing to set.
If some astrophysicist told methat that's not going to happen
tomorrow, I would need moreevidence.
(25:58):
The point is that you can't knoweverything 100%.
There's always a gap ofinformation, because no
knowledge is perfect.
That gap is your trust in thatwhich the evidence has led you
to the edge.
And the last bit is bridged byfaith.
Now, if that faith is areligious faith, it's exactly
the same thing.
I don't simply believe in Godbecause, oh, the Bible tells me.
(26:19):
I've got enough evidence thatI've seen that makes me believe
there is a God out there, if youknow what I mean.
And for all those who do have areligious conviction, I believe
they see the same thing.
And if you don't have areligious conviction, I believe
they see the same thing.
And if you don't have areligious conviction, then you
are still operating in faith,because the evidence cannot
disprove the existence of God orthe supernatural.
(26:39):
I'm not an astrophysicist and Iwill not step into territory and
argue on that point, but Ibelieve there's enough
information, which I first beganto hear about back in the early
80s.
They were talking about the BigBang and how they'd gotten to
within fractions of a second ofthe occurrence of the Big Bang,
describing what would havehappened.
Now I know a lot more about itthan I did back then.
(27:02):
And, yes, physicists havegotten in their investigations
to that close to when the BigBang happened.
But you can't go to the momentof the Big Bang with any sort of
investigation, because that'sthe limit of physics Space and
time.
The episode we now refer to, thehuge expansion of the
(27:23):
singularity that occurred 13billion years ago, that we refer
to as the Big Bang.
But what happened before then?
Silly question.
There can't be a before becausethere was no time, all right.
So why did the singularityexplode in the big bang?
We don't know, can we ever findout?
The simple answer is no,because that's beyond physics.
So is there an existence beyondthe singularity?
There is, and human beings, for100,000 years, have always felt
(27:48):
that there's something else outthere, and we keep thinking
that science will.
Well, back in the Enlightenmentdays, they felt that science
will eliminate that altogether,and science was everything, and
everything before theEnlightenment was just simply
superstition.
The reality is that science hasled us to the edge of the cliff
(28:08):
and has shown us yes, there isthat which exists beyond the
singularity and it cannot beinvestigated by physics.
That is where my mind is when itcomes to things of faith or the
supernatural.
There's a lot more to it thanthat, of course, but that is to
me foundational.
A couple of people I admire,like Dr Francis Collins, who led
the team that finally decodedthe human genome, for which they
won the Nobel Prize.
(28:29):
He is a man of faith and when heled the NIH but he led the NIH
for years one of the questionsthat many asked him at the time
was how can you, a man of faith,lead a scientific institution
of this sort of repute?
And he was able to defendhimself adequately and he was
given the position and, as Isaid, he led the NIH.
I think he just retired fromthe NIH a couple of years ago,
but yet he's a man of faith, andthose are the sort of people
(28:51):
that I admire, that have a faithand understand that it does not
prevent them from investigatingscience.
In fact, my belief in Godenables me to pursue science
even further, because I believethere's so much that that
supreme being has put in placeand given us, mere mortals, a
glimpse of, and the excitementis discovering more and more of
(29:12):
what that supernatural being,whom we call God, has put in
place in the existence that weare living in.
Ashley (29:18):
And that is it sounds like that's what translates into
your life.
In medicine it does.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (29:22):
I try to live my life according to the
dictates not by my own strength,but an inner strength that
comes from knowing God.
Ashley (29:28):
I often fall short of that and some of my patients
will tell you that, especiallyin the ER.
But, yes, I do my best.
I think it's fabulous.
Dr Adaka, you are incredible.
I am so grateful to have beenable to talk to you today.
Your love for this career istangible and you've seen it.
You've seen it and the peoplein it at its best and also on
days at its worst.
(29:49):
So thank you for persevering,thank you for sharing that with
us and thank you so much forjoining us today on Shadow Me
Next.
I'm so grateful.
Dr. Gregory Adaka (29:57):
Thank you very much.
Ashley Appreciate that.
Ashley (29:59):
Thank you so very much for listening to this episode of
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday, as always.
If you have any questions, letme know on Facebook or Instagram
Access.
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You're always invited to shadowme next.
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