December 8, 2025 • 31 mins
Curiosity is a skill, and it can carry a medical career farther than raw talent. We sit down with interventional gastroenterologist Dr. Doug Adler to unpack 30 years of change in training, technology, and the mindset it takes to serve patients well. From the rise of gap years and research-heavy applications to the moment you realize you’re responsible for another human life, Doug brings candid advice and memorable stories that cut through the noise.
We dig into why GI is now one of the most in-demand specialties: broad organ systems, high-impact procedures, and advances that turned yesterday’s surgeries into today’s same-day endoscopy. Dr. Adler breaks down important techniques, evolving devices, and the practical realities of staying current so you never become the clinician practicing like it’s 1998.
For students and early clinicians, the conversation turns to professionalism and presence. Everything is part of the interview: your tone, pacing, clothing, and judgment under mild pressure. You’ll get a simple exercise to test whether your delivery inspires TRUST. And because a full life fuels better medicine, Doug opens up about flying single‑engine planes and writing about aerospace, space exploration, and the people who inspired him as a kid.
More about Dr. Adler at:
podcast: GIE
X (twitter): @DouglasAdlerMD
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ashley Love (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast
where I take you into and behindthe scenes of the medical world
to provide you with a deeperunderstanding of the human side
of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to incredible members of the
(00:22):
healthcare field and uncovertheir unique stories, the joys
and challenges they face, andwhat drives them in their
careers.
It's access you want andstories you need.
Whether you're a pre-healthstudent or simply curious about
the healthcare field, I inviteyou to join me as we take a
conversational and personal lookinto the lives and minds of
(00:43):
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And follow us on Instagram andFacebook at Shadow Me Next,
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(01:03):
After 30 years in medicine,this physician somehow stays
more curious, more energized,and more committed than ever.
Dr.
Doug Adler.
Dr.
Adler describes the way he hasseen the field evolve.
We talk about the shift towardsgap years, the rising pressure
on students, and the quietmaturity that separates
applicants who are ready fromthose who still see this as an
(01:25):
extension of college.
He describes the day herealized what it actually means
to be responsible for anotherhuman life, and how research
became the place where heexpands his reach far beyond the
walls of his own clinic,shaping the care of thousands of
patients he'll never meet.
And his hobby is incrediblycool: flying planes, writing
(01:46):
about space exploration, andinterviewing the very people he
dreamed of becoming as a kid.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests anddo not necessarily reflect the
(02:09):
official policy or position ofany other agency, organization,
employer, or company.
This is Shadow Me Next with Dr.
Doug Adler.
Dr.
Adler, thank you so much forjoining us today on Shadow Me
Next and taking the time toshare your incredible story,
including a hobby that I thinkis one of the coolest things
I've ever heard.
Dr. Doug Adler (02:29):
Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
So, Dr.
Ashley Love (02:33):
Adler, you have been working in medicine for 30
years, over 30 years.
30 years this year.
You've seen a lot.
30 years is a long time inmedicine, especially with the
number of changes that I'm sureyou've seen.
And um, yeah, I usually like tostart the episodes talking
about your path to your careerand your journey into medicine,
but maybe we can do things alittle differently because you
(02:53):
also have mentored a lot ofstudents through this journey.
So, Dr.
Adler, tell me how that hastell me how it looks different.
Tell me how that's changed,that journey into medicine from
when you did it until now, whatyou're seeing with your
students.
Dr. Doug Adler (03:07):
Sure.
So I do think that stuff haschanged quite a lot.
And it's, you know, at 30years, you can kind of see
things or bigger trends thatwere invisible to you earlier
on.
You know, when I was anundergrad, um, and I was never
somebody who wanted to go tomedical school.
Like I was never the kids whosaid they wanted to go to
medical school.
I was never that person.
(03:28):
I really went to college unsureof what I was gonna do.
Um, and then I really didn'tdecide to apply to medical
school till I was a junior.
And I I sort of I had looked atother classes and other fields
of study, like I very seriouslythought about getting a PhD in
astronomy or physics.
(03:49):
Whoa.
Um, and then uh I ended uptaking a biology class, I think
it was the last semester of mysophomore year, and I really,
really enjoyed that.
And I thought, oh, maybe Ishould go to medical school.
And then I did a summer in alaboratory.
I worked at Cold Spring Harbor.
Uh, and that made me realizetwo things.
One is that I really likedbiology, and two, I did not want
(04:10):
to be a PhD in biology at all.
Uh, and then I came back to tocollege in the the fall of my
junior year and realized thathey, I should go to medical
school, but then I I had twoyears to basically do all of the
prerequisites.
So I sort of I sort of wastaking four and five science
(04:30):
classes a semester to geteverything done and graduate in
four years.
So, like my my sort of time ofthinking about doing this,
taking the pre-med classes,taking the MCAT and applying to
medical school was very, verycompressed.
But in my first two years, uh Ireally kind of wasn't, you
(04:50):
know, I was taking math andphysics and chemistry and you
know, English and anthropology,and I just really wasn't focused
on medical school till late.
Um, but when I went and Igraduated college in '91, um
everybody went straight to medschool.
Like if you didn't go straightto med school, there was
something wrong with you, youwere a loser, like you had like
(05:15):
a deficit that you had to makeup for.
And I didn't know anyone.
I mean, I everybody I knew waspre-med by the end, and and
everybody went straight in.
And I think one of the biggestchanges now is that people are
almost expected to have a coupleof gap years, additional
experiences, publications,research, and that really was
(05:39):
not required for us.
We were expected to, you know,have good grades in our core
pre-med classes and a strongMCAT score and good letters.
And that was kind of what theyexpected of us.
Um, and virtually nobody hadresearch experience.
And, you know, I had worked inlaboratories by the time I
graduated college, I had acouple of years of laboratory
experience under my belt, andthat was very uncommon.
(06:01):
So, you know, I was a21-year-old first-year medical
student, and I was a 25-year-oldintern.
Um, and now, you know, the medstudents that I am working with,
and we we get med students fromtwo medical schools at my
hospital, you know, they're 27,28, 29, and they're third-year
med students, you know.
(06:22):
And when I was 29, I was a GIfellow.
Ashley Love (06:25):
Wow.
Dr. Doug Adler (06:26):
So it I think that is a big change.
On the one hand, it's good inthat they are more mature,
they're certainly more maturethan you know most people.
You know, I mean, you can'tcompare a 29-year-old to a
25-year-old, it's just adifferent phase of life.
But on the other hand, um, youknow, a lot of them are starting
families when they're still inmedical school and they're
(06:48):
accruing debt, um, and they aregoing to de facto, you know, be
shaving a couple of years off oftheir career financially.
So it does give and it doestake.
But like when I was a medicalstudent, my first year, the
average age in my class, Ithink, was 21.
Ashley Love (07:07):
Like we were all straight out.
Dr. Doug Adler (07:09):
There were one or two people who weren't
straight out and they were theywere viewed as highly atypical.
Ashley Love (07:14):
Yeah, the demographics, I would imagine,
have just vastly changed.
And you mentioned somethingthat I would like to touch on
quickly, and that's that'sresearch.
And I think that's a maindifferentiator between do you
want to go to medical school, doyou want to go to PA school for
a lot of the students that I'mtalking about is well, do you
have any research experience?
And as you said, when you werewhen you were going through
this, research really wasn't ahuge, you know, it's not
(07:36):
something you saw in everyresume.
And I think now for medicalschools it is, but now you've
published over what 500scientific papers and 700?
Right, yeah.
And you've written textbooksand you're so do you think that
that research background isreally, really needed for
physicians these days?
Dr. Doug Adler (07:56):
I well, I mean, not for everybody.
I mean, you have to really careabout it, you know.
And I I've said this many timesthat it's literally what gets
me up in the morning.
Like people who know me knowthat like I am very, very
focused on the research.
Like I'm in full-time clinicalpractice.
Um, but you know, I get up atfour in the morning.
(08:19):
And before I go to work, like Iusually leave for work around
6, 6.30.
But before I go to work, I workon a couple of projects for a
few hours in the morning everyday because I like it and I
care, and it's a way for me toaffect the care of thousands of
patients that I'll never meet.
You know, like you write anarticle, somebody reads that, it
(08:39):
affects the way they care forpatients.
Like I've never met thosepatients, but I can have an
input in their care.
Um, and you know, like at thispoint in my life, like I don't
need to do research anymore.
Like I've been a tenuredprofessor, I'm a professor now.
Like, you know, I don't reallyneed to publish anymore, but I I
really enjoy it.
It's good to work with otherpeople, it's good to sort of
(08:59):
push the envelope or see howother people treat diseases or
do procedures.
So I really, really enjoy it.
Like it it is very motivating.
And I see, yeah, I don't wantto be negative, but I see a lot
of my colleagues are bored.
And and you know, they've beendoing the same thing for 20, 30
years.
They're master clinicians, likenothing surprises them.
(09:21):
And, you know, like sometimesI'll say to my friends, any good
cases?
And they'll be like, no, notreally.
You know, like they're bored,and the the research keeps you
from getting bored because it'salways new, it's always
different, there's alwayssomething new to write, there's
always a new study to do,there's a new device to
evaluate, or a new drug, orsomething to do.
(09:41):
And it it's a way to stayengaged, and I think it also
keeps your brain a littlesharper.
I hope it's keeping my brainsharper.
Ashley Love (09:48):
Absolutely.
That is, of course, Dr.
Adler, a perfect transitioninto my next question as well.
We sell medicine as being aplace for lifelong learners,
right?
And so much of your resume isabout education.
Um, but it sounds like thisresearch is kind of where that
(10:09):
lifelong learning kind of comesto fruition.
Is it just that, or do you seethat in clinic as well?
Are you still learning inclinic in in the OR?
Dr. Doug Adler (10:17):
Oh, you're definitely still learning.
I think you have to.
Um, I was just just thismorning thinking about this, and
I'm gonna post on X about thislater today.
And I think that a lot ofpeople do get stale and they
sort of they sort of petrify uhat the end of their training,
and they just basically practicethe way that they learn in
(10:38):
their training, and that'll getyou by for about four or five
years, and then things reallystart to drift, and then drugs
change and devices change andprocedures change, and new
procedures come, and oldprocedures are you know
obsolete.
And you know, like I make aneffort, like I'm an
interventionist, I'm inprocedures every day.
(10:58):
Um, and I make an effort tolearn a couple of new procedures
every single year.
Like when I learn them, am Isure I'm gonna use them or need
them?
Like, I don't know, like youdon't know what's gonna take off
or what's gonna get traction,but it's always good to sort of
have your hand in new things sothat you don't get scale stale,
you don't become a dinosaur.
(11:19):
And I've practiced with morethan a few doctors who were just
literally ossified, you know,and they were using drugs that
had been obsolete for 20 yearsor doing their procedures in a
way that really, really datedthem.
And unfortunately, mostpatients aren't sophisticated
enough to pick up on that, like,oh, you know, she's practicing
(11:41):
like it's 1998, right?
And they just they just think,oh, the doctor told me to do
this.
But but other doctors know, andyou don't want to be that
dinosaur.
Ashley Love (11:52):
It's a nice teaser for talking about your podcast,
which we'll talk about later,that I know a lot of c a lot of
clinicians listen to, but a lotof patients listen to as well.
It's it's great to be informed,it's great to know, oh, you
know, I'm going to see my GI docfor this procedure.
Let me see how they'repracticing it now, and let me
see what my physician is goingto recommend.
You know, I I don't really, Idon't, I don't know if I want a
(12:14):
procedure that was, you know,popular in 1995.
Maybe I do, maybe I do, butthere's, you know, there's been
so much advancement, and it isso exciting for us as clinicians
to practice those advances, butit should also be equally
exciting for the patient tobenefit from those advances as
well.
So we're gonna dive into thatnow.
You mentioned something that Iam just so excited to talk
(12:34):
about, and it is the fact thatyou're an interventionalist, you
do procedures every day.
So you are agastroenterologist.
For our listeners, describewhat that means, and then what
does your day look like?
I'm thrilled to hear this.
Dr. Doug Adler (12:47):
So uh GI is kind of misunderstood.
Like nobody on earth goes tomedical school to be a GI.
Nobody at all ever.
Uh, because you know, they haveperceptions of what a GI does
based on jokes they heard injunior high school.
Guy goes to a phontologist'soffice, um, you know, or like,
(13:10):
oh, that would smell bad, orthat's disgusting.
Um, and then when people go tomed school and they start
hanging around the hospital fora couple of years, they suddenly
realize, like, oh wow, that's areally good specialty.
Um, because we get young andold patients, not all
specialties get young and oldpatients.
We get benign and malignantdisease.
(13:32):
Uh, we get, and this is gonnasound silly, but we get a lot of
organs.
Like, you know, somespecialties get one organ, like
that's it, that's all they get.
Like some specialtiespractically get one chief
complaint.
Um, but we get esophagus, thestomach, the small bowel, the
large bowel, the pancreas, thebile ducts, the liver.
(13:53):
You know, like we get all theseorgans and they can have all
sorts of dysfunctions.
And GI in 2025 is very much aprocedural specialty.
I mean, you know, when peoplethink of a colonoscopy, like
that's kind of people'sperception.
But colonoscopy is just one ofmany, many things that we do.
There's all manner of upper andlower endoscopy complex
(14:16):
interventions in the bile,ducts, in the pancreas, in the
liver, in the gallbladder.
Um there's uh what they'recalled third space procedures
that we do all the time now,where uh we violate tissue
planes and enter into otherareas of the body that would
otherwise not be accessible.
And some of those areas havenothing to do with the GI tract,
(14:39):
and we just use our endoscopes,and there's a huge variety of
devices to do things that many,many years ago were surgery, and
now you know you would neverconsider doing surgery.
You know, my wife and I arere-watching ER.
On ER, you know, like thepatient is seen in the emergency
room, and then they callsurgery, and the patient has
(15:01):
always run off to surgery, andthey show them, you know, doing
these giant surgeries with theirhands in the patient's abdomen
and chest.
And like every day I say to mywife, like, none of this would
happen anymore.
Like, this is all likeminimally invasive.
Like, like we would do thiswith a scope, and the patient
would eat dinner at home thatday and wouldn't even stay in
the hospital.
And like it is interesting to,you know, at least within the
(15:24):
context of that particular mediaprogram, to see how much stuff
has changed, you know.
And again, when I was a medstudent, everybody got run off
to the OR and they were in thehospital 10 days, you know, off
of work six weeks.
And it's just not like thatanymore.
And GI has really been at theforefront of that.
(15:44):
So, like, again, nobody goes tomed school to do GI, but GI is
now the most in-demandspecialty, like bar none.
Like, it's easier to become aplastic surgeon than it is to
become a gastroenterologist.
And when I was at theUniversity of Utah, uh, I was a
fellowship director there forseven years.
You know, we had two or threespots a year.
(16:05):
I mean, we never got less than400 applications.
Ashley Love (16:09):
Oh my goodness.
Dr. Doug Adler (16:10):
Right, but that's what I mean.
So, like, there's there's theperception that you have going
into med school, which is basedon nothing, essentially.
And then there's the reality ofthat you you acquire from
hanging around the hospital fora couple of years, and then
people think very, verydifferently about stuff.
But I do think, you know, Iknow you have a lot of
(16:31):
pre-medical applicants listeningto the pot.
You know, it's really hard toescape these media influences,
whether it's House or Scrubs orGray's Anatomy.
You know, I was I was heavilyinfluenced by Dr.
McCoy and Hawkeye Pierce,right?
These are the media doctors ofmy youth.
(16:53):
And it has nothing to do withreality, like zero.
It has zero bearing on reality.
So I think that, you know, ifyou're going to med school, you
have to go in just open and justsort of see like what is
concordant with yourpersonality, what is concordant
with, you know, how much do youwant to work?
(17:14):
What do you want to do?
Do you like to do procedures?
Do you want to be in clinic?
Do you want to be readingx-rays?
And you don't really know thatabout yourself until you get out
there.
And that's a that I think a lotof people have that difficult
sort of needle scratching on therecord moment where they they
say, like, oh, the thing I'vebeen saying since third grade,
(17:37):
I'm really not interested in.
You know, this other thing thatI had never even considered is
a better fit for me.
And like, for example, one ofmy best friends in medical
school, she became apathologist, you know, and and
that was not something I I gotthe sense she had ever
considered before going tomedical school.
(17:59):
And then, you know, apathologist is a highly atypical
physician job, doesn't seepatients ever, right?
Not you know what I'm saying,like like with a microscope all
day looking at slides, and andshe's really, really, she's
really engaged in her job andglad she does what she does.
But, you know, like she didn'tgo to medical school saying, I
want to look at glass slides for40 years, right?
(18:21):
Like you you just have to kindof be willing to go where it
leads you.
Ashley Love (18:26):
It's really great advice, and it's one of the
reasons why I created thispodcast, Shadow Me Next.
You know, it's it's becomingmore and more difficult to get
that exposure and thatexperience that you're talking
about.
But if we can just get a sneakpeek into some of the lives of
these clinicians and say, okay,that guy's a GI doc.
Why does he like working in GI?
(18:47):
Um, I had a urology NP on justbefore this.
And somebody might say, Why inGod's name would she want to
look at that body part all day?
And she's so passionate aboutit.
And until you really understandand talk to these people why it
might not make sense to you.
And you mentioned a couple ofthings that I think are so
great.
You can't just focus on whatmedicine you want to do.
(19:09):
You have to focus on what thatlooks like, what your life are
do you want to be more clinical?
Do you want to be moreprocedural?
Dr. Doug Adler (19:14):
Right.
Ashley Love (19:14):
Like you mentioned, how hard do you want to work?
And it's it's even more thanthat, it's how passionate are
you about working that hard too,you know?
And um, these are questionsthat are so important, and
something that I'm sure over the100 plus, probably much more
than that, physicians thatyou've mentored from undergrad
all the way through, these areconversations you're having
(19:35):
frequently.
What is something that you wishstudents were more focused on?
A character trait.
Let's go with that one.
Dr. Doug Adler (19:43):
I do think that it is important to be serious
about the undertaking you aregetting into.
Um, and again, not to be tooserious, but I think when I was
a third year, the enormity ofwhat I had undertaken finally
hit me.
Because first and second yearis kind of well, it's college.
(20:04):
I'm in a lecture hall, I I takenotes, I I take tests, and it
just felt like two more years ofyou know, more arduous college.
And and I did not come from afamily of physicians, I'm the
only physician in my family.
Um, and I remember in themiddle of third year, that was
kind of the first time that theenormity of the responsibility
(20:29):
of caring for living humans hitme.
Um and that's a big momentbecause you know, when you're a
kid, there's always somebodyolder, smarter, bigger, more
wise.
And then when you're an adult,like you're that person, like
you're the one doing theprocedure, writing the drug,
(20:53):
making the decision.
Um and I I think that I wish Ihad made that realization a
little earlier.
Um, and and you know, we mentorlike in my current job, we have
medical students, residents,and GI fellows with us all the
time.
Um and so I don't work with toomany undergrads now, but I
(21:15):
think as an undergrad, if you'reconsidering getting, you know,
an NP or a PA or an MD or a DOdegree, like you do have to kind
of recognize the seriousnessand the enormity of what you are
undertaking.
And some people never figurethat out, right?
But I think that those who takeit more seriously and have more
(21:36):
ownership tend to do better.
Nobody gets everything rightevery time, but like I just
distinctly remember the momentwhen I was a third year when I
had that realization that, like,you know, even as just a
knucklehead third year, I wasmaking decisions that affected
patients' lives.
So I I think that when youapply to these programs, right,
(21:59):
P I N P M D D O, like the peoplewho can convey that have a
maturity that will help themboth during the application
cycle and in school.
And unfortunately, and I Iinterviewed for uh I've
interviewed for many medicalschools over the years that I've
been faculty on.
(22:20):
A lot of people come off asvery juvenile in their
interviews, and like I I can'tconvey strongly enough what a
deal ender that is, right?
Like it's not a lark, like it'sit's it's you're you know,
you're you're going intohealthcare.
So again, we I know we've kindof taken a serious turn, but but
(22:41):
it's I think it's reallyimportant.
And and I remember people whowere like goofing around in the
interview, and it was fun and wehad a good time, but I re I
scored them low.
And the people who seemedawake, awake, alert, committed,
and understanding what the jobthey were asking to do, right,
scored higher, even if theymaybe weren't so charismatic,
(23:04):
right?
Like, who would you rather havetake care of you?
Ashley Love (23:08):
Here on Shadow Me Next, we include a quality
question, something that you canuse to help you prepare for
your own interviews.
Today's quality question isn'tsomething Dr.
Adler said outright.
It's a reflection of what hemeant.
He talked about how applicantsshow up, the tone they use, the
way they carry themselves, eventhe little things like clothing
(23:30):
choices or casual comments.
And it made one point so clear.
Your interview is the firstmoment you're asking someone to
trust you with their patience.
And eventually with their owncare.
So here's your reflection fortoday.
Would your interview presencemake someone trust you with
their care?
Not your GPA, not your resume,your presence.
(23:52):
So here's your action step.
Record a 30 to 60 second answerto any common interview
question.
Watch it back only through thelens of trust.
Would I trust this person tocare for someone I love?
Adjust one small thing tone,posture, pace, or word choice,
and then re-record.
Keep in mind that there's moreinterview prep, such as mock
(24:15):
interviews and personalstatement review, over on
shadowmext.com.
There you'll find amazingresources to help you as you
prepare to answer your ownquality questions.
It goes back toprofessionalism, right?
I mean, what you know yourinterview really is the start of
your whole career.
And that's what I tell RPAstudents.
(24:35):
You know, are you looking at PAschool and medical school as
years five, six, seven, andeight of college?
Or are you looking at theseyears as years one, two, three,
four of your career?
The rest of your life.
And you're absolutely right.
And you can definitelyunderstand the students who kind
of feel that weight and feelthat significance.
(24:56):
When you were talking, it justit reminded me of our very first
episode we ever recorded.
I had a PA student on the show,actually, and she mentioned how
she was sitting with a patientand she had just told this
patient they had pancreaticcancer.
But um, she said, Ashley, itwas just, it was the it was so
heavy because I knew pancreaticcancer.
(25:17):
I had read about it in a book.
I could describe thepathophysiology, I could
describe all the treatments, Icould describe, you know, the
expected outcomes, all the allthe numbers.
But looking at that patient andsaying those words to that
patient was just all of a suddenall that went away, you know,
and really the gravity of thesituation was felt.
Dr. Doug Adler (25:33):
So um it's the worst news they're ever going to
hear in their whole life.
Ashley Love (25:37):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And and so much of the data andthe studying doesn't really
prepare you for that moment.
So I'm really glad youmentioned that.
Thank you for describing that,discussing that.
Finding situations to reallyimprove upon that is um going to
be the student's uh battle.
Dr. Doug Adler (25:54):
Yeah.
Well, no, I think I think theinterview, you know, you have so
little time in that interview.
And you know, some interviewersare just looking for a reason
to reject you, right?
Because everyone has goodgrades, everyone was the
smartest kid in third grade, youknow, like they're looking for
(26:14):
a reason, like, do they standout in a positive or a negative
way?
And I've posted on X a coupleof times about you know, you
have to take the whole thingseriously.
As my wife always sayseverything is part of the
interview.
Um, you know, dressconservatively.
Like now is not a time to showyour style or flair.
(26:34):
Like weird clothing choiceswill be remembered negatively,
you know, like like dressconservatively.
And you don't know, you know,you don't know who your
interviewer is.
You don't know what what theirpolitical alignment is.
And you know, I I've had peoplestart making very, great
political statements with me ininterviews, and I'm like, why
(26:56):
would you do that at all?
Like, you know, like no matterwhat I think or who I am, why
would you do that?
So like I don't know, likeyou've got to play it very, very
straight in the interview.
But we we've like we used tosometimes like marvel what
people would wear to theirmedical school interviews, and
we would be like, Wow, wow.
(27:16):
Like, okay, you know, you doyou, oh right, I mean you do
you, but but that's not whatmedical school is about.
Like, I mean, because really tobring it back home, medical
school is not about you, right?
It's about you saying, Allthese other people are more
important than me, right?
(27:38):
But like, but if you come indress, you know, dressed like a
peacock, like you didn't getthat message, right?
You didn't you didn't pick thatup.
Ashley Love (27:47):
Oh, it's just we're laughing because it's it's
inconceivable, but it happens,you know.
I mean, it it it really and andnot just, I mean, what they
wear is an easy example.
A lot of times it's what theysay or what they do um while
they're sitting there, whilethey're sitting there chatting.
You're right, we did take avery serious term.
It's absolutely something thatneeded to be said, and I'm
really glad we talked about it,but what let's end on a really
(28:10):
light note, and that is umthat's something that you you
hinted at earlier when you weretalking about your original
major in college.
And um, and it has turned inthis incredible hobby that you
have.
Tell us a little bit about it,and then if you would please
explain why it is so importantto do things outside of
medicine.
Dr. Doug Adler (28:30):
So um I am one of those people who wanted to be
an astronaut.
Um, to the point where, youknow, there was a time where I
lived and worked at the JohnsonSpace Center and did research
down there.
Um, unfortunately, when I wasuh thinking seriously about
applying for astronautcandidacy, I mean everybody who
(28:51):
knows me knows this.
Um the Columbia disasteroccurred and then astronaut
selection ended.
Uh so that there was like a thekind of the period where I was
like the perfect age anddemographics, they closed it and
it didn't open for years.
Uh, but I've always beeninterested in aviation astronomy
and aerospace.
I learned to fly single-engineaircraft a couple of years ago.
(29:14):
Um, and I became uh anaerospace writer.
Um, you know, I do a lot ofmedical writing, but I found
that it was very, very enjoyableto have outlets that were
non-medical.
I think now I've written about90 magazine and web articles on
aviation, aerospace, andastronomy, and it's given me the
(29:36):
opportunity to travel aroundand meet some amazing people and
interview some people that Ihad read about my whole life.
Cool.
Um, and then actually get themto sit down for an hour long
interview.
Um, so that has been really,really rewarding.
So maybe, maybe I'll maybe I'llget to fly on a Blue Origin
rocket or a SpaceX rocketsomeday.
(29:59):
I don't know.
A little expensive right now,but uh but you know, I just a
couple of years ago, I guessabout a decade or so ago, I just
started writing.
And then I would just coldemail editors in chief at
aviation and aerospacemagazines, and I would say, Hey,
can I write articles for you?
(30:19):
And you know, sometimes younever got a response, and
sometimes they told you to poundsand, and that was okay.
But sometimes they would sayyes, and then they, you know,
you would get something in ontime and submit something of
good quality, and that openedthe door for the next article
and the next article and thenext article.
So uh, in addition to you know,all the medical stuff, I'm
always working on a couple ofnon-medical articles, and it's
(30:42):
you know, it's nice, like youknow, they come out in the
Barnes and Noble, like medicalarticles don't come out in the
Barnes and Noble, like write anarticle about going to the moon
or going to the Mars orinterstellar travel.
You go to the Barnes and Noble,and there's your magazine with
your article in it, so it's kindof exciting.
Ashley Love (30:57):
That is very cool.
It's it's incredible to havethose those hobbies just to just
to tickle another side of yourbrain, a similar side.
I mean, you're still writing,but something that is that
you're very equally passionateabout.
And Dr.
Adler, it has been such apleasure getting to talk to you.
Dr. Doug Adler (31:13):
Thank you for having me.
Ashley Love (31:14):
It's been great.
Definitely check out hispodcast, Gastrointestinal
Endoscopy, that's G-I-E, andfollow him on X, previously
Twitter, at Douglas AdlerMD.
It's been so fun.
Dr. Doug Adler (31:26):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Ashley Love (31:28):
Thank you so very much for listening to this
episode of Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode, orif you think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast
where I take you into and behindthe scenes of the medical world
to provide you with a deeperunderstanding of the human side
of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to incredible members of the
(00:22):
healthcare field and uncovertheir unique stories, the joys
and challenges they face, andwhat drives them in their
careers.
It's access you want andstories you need.
Whether you're a pre-healthstudent or simply curious about
the healthcare field, I inviteyou to join me as we take a
conversational and personal lookinto the lives and minds of
(00:43):
leaders in medicine.
I don't want you to miss asingle one of these
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So make sure that you subscribeto this podcast, which will
automatically notify you whennew episodes are dropped.
And follow us on Instagram andFacebook at Shadow Me Next,
where we will review highlightsfrom this conversation, and
where I'll give you sneakpreviews of our upcoming guests.
(01:03):
After 30 years in medicine,this physician somehow stays
more curious, more energized,and more committed than ever.
Dr.
Doug Adler.
Dr.
Adler describes the way he hasseen the field evolve.
We talk about the shift towardsgap years, the rising pressure
on students, and the quietmaturity that separates
applicants who are ready fromthose who still see this as an
(01:25):
extension of college.
He describes the day herealized what it actually means
to be responsible for anotherhuman life, and how research
became the place where heexpands his reach far beyond the
walls of his own clinic,shaping the care of thousands of
patients he'll never meet.
And his hobby is incrediblycool: flying planes, writing
(01:46):
about space exploration, andinterviewing the very people he
dreamed of becoming as a kid.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests anddo not necessarily reflect the
(02:09):
official policy or position ofany other agency, organization,
employer, or company.
This is Shadow Me Next with Dr.
Doug Adler.
Dr.
Adler, thank you so much forjoining us today on Shadow Me
Next and taking the time toshare your incredible story,
including a hobby that I thinkis one of the coolest things
I've ever heard.
Dr. Doug Adler (02:29):
Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
So, Dr.
Ashley Love (02:33):
Adler, you have been working in medicine for 30
years, over 30 years.
30 years this year.
You've seen a lot.
30 years is a long time inmedicine, especially with the
number of changes that I'm sureyou've seen.
And um, yeah, I usually like tostart the episodes talking
about your path to your careerand your journey into medicine,
but maybe we can do things alittle differently because you
(02:53):
also have mentored a lot ofstudents through this journey.
So, Dr.
Adler, tell me how that hastell me how it looks different.
Tell me how that's changed,that journey into medicine from
when you did it until now, whatyou're seeing with your
students.
Dr. Doug Adler (03:07):
Sure.
So I do think that stuff haschanged quite a lot.
And it's, you know, at 30years, you can kind of see
things or bigger trends thatwere invisible to you earlier
on.
You know, when I was anundergrad, um, and I was never
somebody who wanted to go tomedical school.
Like I was never the kids whosaid they wanted to go to
medical school.
I was never that person.
(03:28):
I really went to college unsureof what I was gonna do.
Um, and then I really didn'tdecide to apply to medical
school till I was a junior.
And I I sort of I had looked atother classes and other fields
of study, like I very seriouslythought about getting a PhD in
astronomy or physics.
(03:49):
Whoa.
Um, and then uh I ended uptaking a biology class, I think
it was the last semester of mysophomore year, and I really,
really enjoyed that.
And I thought, oh, maybe Ishould go to medical school.
And then I did a summer in alaboratory.
I worked at Cold Spring Harbor.
Uh, and that made me realizetwo things.
One is that I really likedbiology, and two, I did not want
(04:10):
to be a PhD in biology at all.
Uh, and then I came back to tocollege in the the fall of my
junior year and realized thathey, I should go to medical
school, but then I I had twoyears to basically do all of the
prerequisites.
So I sort of I sort of wastaking four and five science
(04:30):
classes a semester to geteverything done and graduate in
four years.
So, like my my sort of time ofthinking about doing this,
taking the pre-med classes,taking the MCAT and applying to
medical school was very, verycompressed.
But in my first two years, uh Ireally kind of wasn't, you
(04:50):
know, I was taking math andphysics and chemistry and you
know, English and anthropology,and I just really wasn't focused
on medical school till late.
Um, but when I went and Igraduated college in '91, um
everybody went straight to medschool.
Like if you didn't go straightto med school, there was
something wrong with you, youwere a loser, like you had like
(05:15):
a deficit that you had to makeup for.
And I didn't know anyone.
I mean, I everybody I knew waspre-med by the end, and and
everybody went straight in.
And I think one of the biggestchanges now is that people are
almost expected to have a coupleof gap years, additional
experiences, publications,research, and that really was
(05:39):
not required for us.
We were expected to, you know,have good grades in our core
pre-med classes and a strongMCAT score and good letters.
And that was kind of what theyexpected of us.
Um, and virtually nobody hadresearch experience.
And, you know, I had worked inlaboratories by the time I
graduated college, I had acouple of years of laboratory
experience under my belt, andthat was very uncommon.
(06:01):
So, you know, I was a21-year-old first-year medical
student, and I was a 25-year-oldintern.
Um, and now, you know, the medstudents that I am working with,
and we we get med students fromtwo medical schools at my
hospital, you know, they're 27,28, 29, and they're third-year
med students, you know.
(06:22):
And when I was 29, I was a GIfellow.
Ashley Love (06:25):
Wow.
Dr. Doug Adler (06:26):
So it I think that is a big change.
On the one hand, it's good inthat they are more mature,
they're certainly more maturethan you know most people.
You know, I mean, you can'tcompare a 29-year-old to a
25-year-old, it's just adifferent phase of life.
But on the other hand, um, youknow, a lot of them are starting
families when they're still inmedical school and they're
(06:48):
accruing debt, um, and they aregoing to de facto, you know, be
shaving a couple of years off oftheir career financially.
So it does give and it doestake.
But like when I was a medicalstudent, my first year, the
average age in my class, Ithink, was 21.
Ashley Love (07:07):
Like we were all straight out.
Dr. Doug Adler (07:09):
There were one or two people who weren't
straight out and they were theywere viewed as highly atypical.
Ashley Love (07:14):
Yeah, the demographics, I would imagine,
have just vastly changed.
And you mentioned somethingthat I would like to touch on
quickly, and that's that'sresearch.
And I think that's a maindifferentiator between do you
want to go to medical school, doyou want to go to PA school for
a lot of the students that I'mtalking about is well, do you
have any research experience?
And as you said, when you werewhen you were going through
this, research really wasn't ahuge, you know, it's not
(07:36):
something you saw in everyresume.
And I think now for medicalschools it is, but now you've
published over what 500scientific papers and 700?
Right, yeah.
And you've written textbooksand you're so do you think that
that research background isreally, really needed for
physicians these days?
Dr. Doug Adler (07:56):
I well, I mean, not for everybody.
I mean, you have to really careabout it, you know.
And I I've said this many timesthat it's literally what gets
me up in the morning.
Like people who know me knowthat like I am very, very
focused on the research.
Like I'm in full-time clinicalpractice.
Um, but you know, I get up atfour in the morning.
(08:19):
And before I go to work, like Iusually leave for work around
6, 6.30.
But before I go to work, I workon a couple of projects for a
few hours in the morning everyday because I like it and I
care, and it's a way for me toaffect the care of thousands of
patients that I'll never meet.
You know, like you write anarticle, somebody reads that, it
(08:39):
affects the way they care forpatients.
Like I've never met thosepatients, but I can have an
input in their care.
Um, and you know, like at thispoint in my life, like I don't
need to do research anymore.
Like I've been a tenuredprofessor, I'm a professor now.
Like, you know, I don't reallyneed to publish anymore, but I I
really enjoy it.
It's good to work with otherpeople, it's good to sort of
(08:59):
push the envelope or see howother people treat diseases or
do procedures.
So I really, really enjoy it.
Like it it is very motivating.
And I see, yeah, I don't wantto be negative, but I see a lot
of my colleagues are bored.
And and you know, they've beendoing the same thing for 20, 30
years.
They're master clinicians, likenothing surprises them.
(09:21):
And, you know, like sometimesI'll say to my friends, any good
cases?
And they'll be like, no, notreally.
You know, like they're bored,and the the research keeps you
from getting bored because it'salways new, it's always
different, there's alwayssomething new to write, there's
always a new study to do,there's a new device to
evaluate, or a new drug, orsomething to do.
(09:41):
And it it's a way to stayengaged, and I think it also
keeps your brain a littlesharper.
I hope it's keeping my brainsharper.
Ashley Love (09:48):
Absolutely.
That is, of course, Dr.
Adler, a perfect transitioninto my next question as well.
We sell medicine as being aplace for lifelong learners,
right?
And so much of your resume isabout education.
Um, but it sounds like thisresearch is kind of where that
(10:09):
lifelong learning kind of comesto fruition.
Is it just that, or do you seethat in clinic as well?
Are you still learning inclinic in in the OR?
Dr. Doug Adler (10:17):
Oh, you're definitely still learning.
I think you have to.
Um, I was just just thismorning thinking about this, and
I'm gonna post on X about thislater today.
And I think that a lot ofpeople do get stale and they
sort of they sort of petrify uhat the end of their training,
and they just basically practicethe way that they learn in
(10:38):
their training, and that'll getyou by for about four or five
years, and then things reallystart to drift, and then drugs
change and devices change andprocedures change, and new
procedures come, and oldprocedures are you know
obsolete.
And you know, like I make aneffort, like I'm an
interventionist, I'm inprocedures every day.
(10:58):
Um, and I make an effort tolearn a couple of new procedures
every single year.
Like when I learn them, am Isure I'm gonna use them or need
them?
Like, I don't know, like youdon't know what's gonna take off
or what's gonna get traction,but it's always good to sort of
have your hand in new things sothat you don't get scale stale,
you don't become a dinosaur.
(11:19):
And I've practiced with morethan a few doctors who were just
literally ossified, you know,and they were using drugs that
had been obsolete for 20 yearsor doing their procedures in a
way that really, really datedthem.
And unfortunately, mostpatients aren't sophisticated
enough to pick up on that, like,oh, you know, she's practicing
(11:41):
like it's 1998, right?
And they just they just think,oh, the doctor told me to do
this.
But but other doctors know, andyou don't want to be that
dinosaur.
Ashley Love (11:52):
It's a nice teaser for talking about your podcast,
which we'll talk about later,that I know a lot of c a lot of
clinicians listen to, but a lotof patients listen to as well.
It's it's great to be informed,it's great to know, oh, you
know, I'm going to see my GI docfor this procedure.
Let me see how they'repracticing it now, and let me
see what my physician is goingto recommend.
You know, I I don't really, Idon't, I don't know if I want a
(12:14):
procedure that was, you know,popular in 1995.
Maybe I do, maybe I do, butthere's, you know, there's been
so much advancement, and it isso exciting for us as clinicians
to practice those advances, butit should also be equally
exciting for the patient tobenefit from those advances as
well.
So we're gonna dive into thatnow.
You mentioned something that Iam just so excited to talk
(12:34):
about, and it is the fact thatyou're an interventionalist, you
do procedures every day.
So you are agastroenterologist.
For our listeners, describewhat that means, and then what
does your day look like?
I'm thrilled to hear this.
Dr. Doug Adler (12:47):
So uh GI is kind of misunderstood.
Like nobody on earth goes tomedical school to be a GI.
Nobody at all ever.
Uh, because you know, they haveperceptions of what a GI does
based on jokes they heard injunior high school.
Guy goes to a phontologist'soffice, um, you know, or like,
(13:10):
oh, that would smell bad, orthat's disgusting.
Um, and then when people go tomed school and they start
hanging around the hospital fora couple of years, they suddenly
realize, like, oh wow, that's areally good specialty.
Um, because we get young andold patients, not all
specialties get young and oldpatients.
We get benign and malignantdisease.
(13:32):
Uh, we get, and this is gonnasound silly, but we get a lot of
organs.
Like, you know, somespecialties get one organ, like
that's it, that's all they get.
Like some specialtiespractically get one chief
complaint.
Um, but we get esophagus, thestomach, the small bowel, the
large bowel, the pancreas, thebile ducts, the liver.
(13:53):
You know, like we get all theseorgans and they can have all
sorts of dysfunctions.
And GI in 2025 is very much aprocedural specialty.
I mean, you know, when peoplethink of a colonoscopy, like
that's kind of people'sperception.
But colonoscopy is just one ofmany, many things that we do.
There's all manner of upper andlower endoscopy complex
(14:16):
interventions in the bile,ducts, in the pancreas, in the
liver, in the gallbladder.
Um there's uh what they'recalled third space procedures
that we do all the time now,where uh we violate tissue
planes and enter into otherareas of the body that would
otherwise not be accessible.
And some of those areas havenothing to do with the GI tract,
(14:39):
and we just use our endoscopes,and there's a huge variety of
devices to do things that many,many years ago were surgery, and
now you know you would neverconsider doing surgery.
You know, my wife and I arere-watching ER.
On ER, you know, like thepatient is seen in the emergency
room, and then they callsurgery, and the patient has
(15:01):
always run off to surgery, andthey show them, you know, doing
these giant surgeries with theirhands in the patient's abdomen
and chest.
And like every day I say to mywife, like, none of this would
happen anymore.
Like, this is all likeminimally invasive.
Like, like we would do thiswith a scope, and the patient
would eat dinner at home thatday and wouldn't even stay in
the hospital.
And like it is interesting to,you know, at least within the
(15:24):
context of that particular mediaprogram, to see how much stuff
has changed, you know.
And again, when I was a medstudent, everybody got run off
to the OR and they were in thehospital 10 days, you know, off
of work six weeks.
And it's just not like thatanymore.
And GI has really been at theforefront of that.
(15:44):
So, like, again, nobody goes tomed school to do GI, but GI is
now the most in-demandspecialty, like bar none.
Like, it's easier to become aplastic surgeon than it is to
become a gastroenterologist.
And when I was at theUniversity of Utah, uh, I was a
fellowship director there forseven years.
You know, we had two or threespots a year.
(16:05):
I mean, we never got less than400 applications.
Ashley Love (16:09):
Oh my goodness.
Dr. Doug Adler (16:10):
Right, but that's what I mean.
So, like, there's there's theperception that you have going
into med school, which is basedon nothing, essentially.
And then there's the reality ofthat you you acquire from
hanging around the hospital fora couple of years, and then
people think very, verydifferently about stuff.
But I do think, you know, Iknow you have a lot of
(16:31):
pre-medical applicants listeningto the pot.
You know, it's really hard toescape these media influences,
whether it's House or Scrubs orGray's Anatomy.
You know, I was I was heavilyinfluenced by Dr.
McCoy and Hawkeye Pierce,right?
These are the media doctors ofmy youth.
(16:53):
And it has nothing to do withreality, like zero.
It has zero bearing on reality.
So I think that, you know, ifyou're going to med school, you
have to go in just open and justsort of see like what is
concordant with yourpersonality, what is concordant
with, you know, how much do youwant to work?
(17:14):
What do you want to do?
Do you like to do procedures?
Do you want to be in clinic?
Do you want to be readingx-rays?
And you don't really know thatabout yourself until you get out
there.
And that's a that I think a lotof people have that difficult
sort of needle scratching on therecord moment where they they
say, like, oh, the thing I'vebeen saying since third grade,
(17:37):
I'm really not interested in.
You know, this other thing thatI had never even considered is
a better fit for me.
And like, for example, one ofmy best friends in medical
school, she became apathologist, you know, and and
that was not something I I gotthe sense she had ever
considered before going tomedical school.
(17:59):
And then, you know, apathologist is a highly atypical
physician job, doesn't seepatients ever, right?
Not you know what I'm saying,like like with a microscope all
day looking at slides, and andshe's really, really, she's
really engaged in her job andglad she does what she does.
But, you know, like she didn'tgo to medical school saying, I
want to look at glass slides for40 years, right?
(18:21):
Like you you just have to kindof be willing to go where it
leads you.
Ashley Love (18:26):
It's really great advice, and it's one of the
reasons why I created thispodcast, Shadow Me Next.
You know, it's it's becomingmore and more difficult to get
that exposure and thatexperience that you're talking
about.
But if we can just get a sneakpeek into some of the lives of
these clinicians and say, okay,that guy's a GI doc.
Why does he like working in GI?
(18:47):
Um, I had a urology NP on justbefore this.
And somebody might say, Why inGod's name would she want to
look at that body part all day?
And she's so passionate aboutit.
And until you really understandand talk to these people why it
might not make sense to you.
And you mentioned a couple ofthings that I think are so
great.
You can't just focus on whatmedicine you want to do.
(19:09):
You have to focus on what thatlooks like, what your life are
do you want to be more clinical?
Do you want to be moreprocedural?
Dr. Doug Adler (19:14):
Right.
Ashley Love (19:14):
Like you mentioned, how hard do you want to work?
And it's it's even more thanthat, it's how passionate are
you about working that hard too,you know?
And um, these are questionsthat are so important, and
something that I'm sure over the100 plus, probably much more
than that, physicians thatyou've mentored from undergrad
all the way through, these areconversations you're having
(19:35):
frequently.
What is something that you wishstudents were more focused on?
A character trait.
Let's go with that one.
Dr. Doug Adler (19:43):
I do think that it is important to be serious
about the undertaking you aregetting into.
Um, and again, not to be tooserious, but I think when I was
a third year, the enormity ofwhat I had undertaken finally
hit me.
Because first and second yearis kind of well, it's college.
(20:04):
I'm in a lecture hall, I I takenotes, I I take tests, and it
just felt like two more years ofyou know, more arduous college.
And and I did not come from afamily of physicians, I'm the
only physician in my family.
Um, and I remember in themiddle of third year, that was
kind of the first time that theenormity of the responsibility
(20:29):
of caring for living humans hitme.
Um and that's a big momentbecause you know, when you're a
kid, there's always somebodyolder, smarter, bigger, more
wise.
And then when you're an adult,like you're that person, like
you're the one doing theprocedure, writing the drug,
(20:53):
making the decision.
Um and I I think that I wish Ihad made that realization a
little earlier.
Um, and and you know, we mentorlike in my current job, we have
medical students, residents,and GI fellows with us all the
time.
Um and so I don't work with toomany undergrads now, but I
(21:15):
think as an undergrad, if you'reconsidering getting, you know,
an NP or a PA or an MD or a DOdegree, like you do have to kind
of recognize the seriousnessand the enormity of what you are
undertaking.
And some people never figurethat out, right?
But I think that those who takeit more seriously and have more
(21:36):
ownership tend to do better.
Nobody gets everything rightevery time, but like I just
distinctly remember the momentwhen I was a third year when I
had that realization that, like,you know, even as just a
knucklehead third year, I wasmaking decisions that affected
patients' lives.
So I I think that when youapply to these programs, right,
(21:59):
P I N P M D D O, like the peoplewho can convey that have a
maturity that will help themboth during the application
cycle and in school.
And unfortunately, and I Iinterviewed for uh I've
interviewed for many medicalschools over the years that I've
been faculty on.
(22:20):
A lot of people come off asvery juvenile in their
interviews, and like I I can'tconvey strongly enough what a
deal ender that is, right?
Like it's not a lark, like it'sit's it's you're you know,
you're you're going intohealthcare.
So again, we I know we've kindof taken a serious turn, but but
(22:41):
it's I think it's reallyimportant.
And and I remember people whowere like goofing around in the
interview, and it was fun and wehad a good time, but I re I
scored them low.
And the people who seemedawake, awake, alert, committed,
and understanding what the jobthey were asking to do, right,
scored higher, even if theymaybe weren't so charismatic,
(23:04):
right?
Like, who would you rather havetake care of you?
Ashley Love (23:08):
Here on Shadow Me Next, we include a quality
question, something that you canuse to help you prepare for
your own interviews.
Today's quality question isn'tsomething Dr.
Adler said outright.
It's a reflection of what hemeant.
He talked about how applicantsshow up, the tone they use, the
way they carry themselves, eventhe little things like clothing
(23:30):
choices or casual comments.
And it made one point so clear.
Your interview is the firstmoment you're asking someone to
trust you with their patience.
And eventually with their owncare.
So here's your reflection fortoday.
Would your interview presencemake someone trust you with
their care?
Not your GPA, not your resume,your presence.
(23:52):
So here's your action step.
Record a 30 to 60 second answerto any common interview
question.
Watch it back only through thelens of trust.
Would I trust this person tocare for someone I love?
Adjust one small thing tone,posture, pace, or word choice,
and then re-record.
Keep in mind that there's moreinterview prep, such as mock
(24:15):
interviews and personalstatement review, over on
shadowmext.com.
There you'll find amazingresources to help you as you
prepare to answer your ownquality questions.
It goes back toprofessionalism, right?
I mean, what you know yourinterview really is the start of
your whole career.
And that's what I tell RPAstudents.
(24:35):
You know, are you looking at PAschool and medical school as
years five, six, seven, andeight of college?
Or are you looking at theseyears as years one, two, three,
four of your career?
The rest of your life.
And you're absolutely right.
And you can definitelyunderstand the students who kind
of feel that weight and feelthat significance.
(24:56):
When you were talking, it justit reminded me of our very first
episode we ever recorded.
I had a PA student on the show,actually, and she mentioned how
she was sitting with a patientand she had just told this
patient they had pancreaticcancer.
But um, she said, Ashley, itwas just, it was the it was so
heavy because I knew pancreaticcancer.
(25:17):
I had read about it in a book.
I could describe thepathophysiology, I could
describe all the treatments, Icould describe, you know, the
expected outcomes, all the allthe numbers.
But looking at that patient andsaying those words to that
patient was just all of a suddenall that went away, you know,
and really the gravity of thesituation was felt.
Dr. Doug Adler (25:33):
So um it's the worst news they're ever going to
hear in their whole life.
Ashley Love (25:37):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And and so much of the data andthe studying doesn't really
prepare you for that moment.
So I'm really glad youmentioned that.
Thank you for describing that,discussing that.
Finding situations to reallyimprove upon that is um going to
be the student's uh battle.
Dr. Doug Adler (25:54):
Yeah.
Well, no, I think I think theinterview, you know, you have so
little time in that interview.
And you know, some interviewersare just looking for a reason
to reject you, right?
Because everyone has goodgrades, everyone was the
smartest kid in third grade, youknow, like they're looking for
(26:14):
a reason, like, do they standout in a positive or a negative
way?
And I've posted on X a coupleof times about you know, you
have to take the whole thingseriously.
As my wife always sayseverything is part of the
interview.
Um, you know, dressconservatively.
Like now is not a time to showyour style or flair.
(26:34):
Like weird clothing choiceswill be remembered negatively,
you know, like like dressconservatively.
And you don't know, you know,you don't know who your
interviewer is.
You don't know what what theirpolitical alignment is.
And you know, I I've had peoplestart making very, great
political statements with me ininterviews, and I'm like, why
(26:56):
would you do that at all?
Like, you know, like no matterwhat I think or who I am, why
would you do that?
So like I don't know, likeyou've got to play it very, very
straight in the interview.
But we we've like we used tosometimes like marvel what
people would wear to theirmedical school interviews, and
we would be like, Wow, wow.
(27:16):
Like, okay, you know, you doyou, oh right, I mean you do
you, but but that's not whatmedical school is about.
Like, I mean, because really tobring it back home, medical
school is not about you, right?
It's about you saying, Allthese other people are more
important than me, right?
(27:38):
But like, but if you come indress, you know, dressed like a
peacock, like you didn't getthat message, right?
You didn't you didn't pick thatup.
Ashley Love (27:47):
Oh, it's just we're laughing because it's it's
inconceivable, but it happens,you know.
I mean, it it it really and andnot just, I mean, what they
wear is an easy example.
A lot of times it's what theysay or what they do um while
they're sitting there, whilethey're sitting there chatting.
You're right, we did take avery serious term.
It's absolutely something thatneeded to be said, and I'm
really glad we talked about it,but what let's end on a really
(28:10):
light note, and that is umthat's something that you you
hinted at earlier when you weretalking about your original
major in college.
And um, and it has turned inthis incredible hobby that you
have.
Tell us a little bit about it,and then if you would please
explain why it is so importantto do things outside of
medicine.
Dr. Doug Adler (28:30):
So um I am one of those people who wanted to be
an astronaut.
Um, to the point where, youknow, there was a time where I
lived and worked at the JohnsonSpace Center and did research
down there.
Um, unfortunately, when I wasuh thinking seriously about
applying for astronautcandidacy, I mean everybody who
(28:51):
knows me knows this.
Um the Columbia disasteroccurred and then astronaut
selection ended.
Uh so that there was like a thekind of the period where I was
like the perfect age anddemographics, they closed it and
it didn't open for years.
Uh, but I've always beeninterested in aviation astronomy
and aerospace.
I learned to fly single-engineaircraft a couple of years ago.
(29:14):
Um, and I became uh anaerospace writer.
Um, you know, I do a lot ofmedical writing, but I found
that it was very, very enjoyableto have outlets that were
non-medical.
I think now I've written about90 magazine and web articles on
aviation, aerospace, andastronomy, and it's given me the
(29:36):
opportunity to travel aroundand meet some amazing people and
interview some people that Ihad read about my whole life.
Cool.
Um, and then actually get themto sit down for an hour long
interview.
Um, so that has been really,really rewarding.
So maybe, maybe I'll maybe I'llget to fly on a Blue Origin
rocket or a SpaceX rocketsomeday.
(29:59):
I don't know.
A little expensive right now,but uh but you know, I just a
couple of years ago, I guessabout a decade or so ago, I just
started writing.
And then I would just coldemail editors in chief at
aviation and aerospacemagazines, and I would say, Hey,
can I write articles for you?
(30:19):
And you know, sometimes younever got a response, and
sometimes they told you to poundsand, and that was okay.
But sometimes they would sayyes, and then they, you know,
you would get something in ontime and submit something of
good quality, and that openedthe door for the next article
and the next article and thenext article.
So uh, in addition to you know,all the medical stuff, I'm
always working on a couple ofnon-medical articles, and it's
(30:42):
you know, it's nice, like youknow, they come out in the
Barnes and Noble, like medicalarticles don't come out in the
Barnes and Noble, like write anarticle about going to the moon
or going to the Mars orinterstellar travel.
You go to the Barnes and Noble,and there's your magazine with
your article in it, so it's kindof exciting.
Ashley Love (30:57):
That is very cool.
It's it's incredible to havethose those hobbies just to just
to tickle another side of yourbrain, a similar side.
I mean, you're still writing,but something that is that
you're very equally passionateabout.
And Dr.
Adler, it has been such apleasure getting to talk to you.
Dr. Doug Adler (31:13):
Thank you for having me.
Ashley Love (31:14):
It's been great.
Definitely check out hispodcast, Gastrointestinal
Endoscopy, that's G-I-E, andfollow him on X, previously
Twitter, at Douglas AdlerMD.
It's been so fun.
Dr. Doug Adler (31:26):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Ashley Love (31:28):
Thank you so very much for listening to this
episode of Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode, orif you think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
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