October 6, 2025 • 31 mins
What if the most powerful tool in your clinical toolkit isn’t a monitor or a protocol, but a feeling you’ve learned to trust? We sit down with ER nurse Jenn Johnson to follow her unexpected path from failing organic chemistry to thriving in emergency care. She began in a tiny rural hospital where one RN ran the show, then in a major stroke center with full support and faster medicine. Along the way, Jenn exposes the hidden curriculum of healthcare: how culture shapes confidence, why bullying and micromanagement derail good care, and how real resilience starts with better sleep, better boundaries, and saying yes to yourself without guilt.
Jenn opens up about the COVID years, stressed with parenting two small kids while working nights, running on fragments of sleep, and realizing that self-preservation is patient safety. She breaks down the practical side of intuition as high-speed pattern recognition at triage: spotting “sick vs really sick,” acting before vitals crash, and asking the awkward questions that prevent disasters in the waiting room. We explore how stories teach better than lectures, why an extra physician touchpoint improves outcomes even when orders don’t change, and how simple advocacy can convert worry into action.
If you’re a pre-health student, new grad nurse, or seasoned clinician rethinking your limits, you'll benefit from Jenn's directives: choose supportive environments, leverage agency and flexible shifts, and build clinical instincts with mentorship and reps. Jenn's book—Nursing Intuition: How to Trust Your Gut, Save Your Sanity, and Survive Your Career—offers an evidence-backed blueprint for making your instincts reliable and your career sustainable. Subscribe, share this episode with a colleague who needs it, and leave a review to help more listeners find these stories and tools. Your gut is talking—ready to listen?
More about Jenn at her website: www.nursejenn.ca
And check out her book: Nursing Intuition: How to Trust Your Gut, Save Your Sanity, and Survive Your Career
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Check out our pre-health resources. Great for pre-med, pre-PA, pre-nursing, pre-therapy students or anyone else with an upcoming interview!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ashley (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast where
I take you into and behind thescenes of the medical world to
provide you with a deeperunderstanding of the human side
of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to incredible members of the
(00:22):
healthcare field and uncovertheir unique stories, the joys
and challenges they face, andwhat drives them in their
careers.
It's access you want andstories you need.
Whether you're a pre-healthstudent or simply curious about
the healthcare field, I inviteyou to join me as we take a
conversational and personal lookinto the lives and minds of
(00:43):
leaders in medicine.
I don't want you to miss asingle one of these
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So make sure that you subscribeto this podcast, which will
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And follow us on Instagram andFacebook at Shadow Me Next,
where we will review highlightsfrom this conversation and where
I'll give you sneak previews ofour upcoming guests.
(01:03):
Nursing was never on JenJohnson's radar.
In fact, she'll tell you shefell into it after failing
organic chemistry.
What started as a compressednursing program led her to a
small rural hospital in NorthernOntario, where she often was
the only RN on duty, callingphysicians in as needed,
(01:24):
learning to MacGyver solutions,and realizing she had a gift for
the fast-paced world ofemergency medicine.
But Jen's story gets even moreinteresting.
She opens up about beingbullied early in her career,
hitting a breaking point duringCOVID when she was juggling ER
shifts and two small childrenwithout sleep, and how she
(01:45):
rebuilt resilience.
She shares the lessons thatshaped her, like why trusting
your gut in medicine can savelives, why saying yes to
yourself doesn't mean saying noto others, and how listening to
stories can be the most powerfulform of medical education.
Today, Jen is not just an ERnurse.
(02:06):
She's a mentor, a writer, andan advocate helping other nurses
survive their careers with bothskill and sanity intact.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
(02:27):
those of the host and guests anddo not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany other agency, organization,
employer, or company.
This is Shadow Me Next with JenJohnson.
Jen, thank you so much forjoining us on Shadow Me Next
today.
This is going to be a reallyeye-opening conversation for a
lot of people.
Number one, because of what youdo and where you work, but
(02:50):
number two, because of yourexperiences in those places.
So thanks for joining us.
Thanks for taking the time.
Oh my God, Ashley, thank you somuch for having me.
I'm excited.
So number one, because you workin the ER, which is just an
incredible, um, it's anincredible place.
Incredible is a big word andit's a it's a big place.
So that's fitting.
Um but your career spans almostdecades, multiple decades now.
(03:12):
Uh you live in Ontario.
Looking back, tell us whatinitially drew you to emergency
medicine nursing.
Let's start there.
Jenn (03:21):
Yeah, I mean, I I fell into nursing first.
I never once wanted to be anurse.
I never thought about being anurse.
It was never on my radar ever.
Um, I ended up going intobiology right after high school
and went through that programfor about a year, got into
second year, and then failed myfirst half of organic chemistry.
I, for the life of me, couldn'twrap my head around it.
(03:43):
It just wasn't happening.
So I kind of looked around andI'm like, well, now I'm a year
behind.
Like, do I really want to keepdoing this?
I still don't even know if Icould pass the class totally.
Um, so what else?
And thank God one of myroommates in first year had was
a nursing student, and we'd gothrough her textbooks and her
Mosby's dictionary and look atall the really gross pictures.
And you're like, oh my God,that's what I want to do.
(04:05):
So thankfully, my universityhad a three-year compressed
program for uh the BSCN.
So swapped right into that, wasable to work it at a four-year
pace because I'd already hadalmost two years worth of
credits.
It was a win-win.
And then with the ER, my myfirst job out of high school or
out of high school, out ofuniversity was um a very
(04:27):
exceedingly small rural hospitalin Northwest Ontario because
I'd met my husband and he livedup there and was from there.
And so I was like, I'm gonnamove in, I'm gonna save the
town.
Genius.
The the hospital was so smallthat there was one RN for a
merge.
That was it.
And you called the physician inwhen you needed them.
(04:48):
And they were a familyphysician who happened to cover
a merge.
Looking back, so many redflags.
Um, and then, you know, therewas one RN for the floor with
two RPNs or LVNs.
Um, and the floor was maybe 14beds total.
But I mean, anything thatactually was remotely ill, we
sent out.
(05:08):
Um, seeing the helicopter comedown, I mean, that was a big
love moment when it was likelanding at the ER doors, and
you're like, oh my gosh, this isso cool.
But I mean, I I never thoughtabout a merge.
I it never even clicked.
But because of this role, um,because there were only two RNs
(05:29):
on at a time, you just swap.
So one day shift, you'd be,you'd usually start out first
day at eMERGE, and then thesecond day, then you'd be on the
floor.
Uh, and you just swap back andforth.
And that's it.
And that's what was theexpectation, and and that was
the job.
So half the time I was inemerge, and I'm like, oh, I
really, really like this.
I like the quick in and out, Ilike the quickie problem solved.
(05:53):
You know, if what I'm seeingnow 70% walks into the ER, they
shouldn't even be there.
Um, I'm gonna say 90% of what Isaw up north really shouldn't
have been there, but they thetownsfolk had driven around and
seen which doctor was on callbecause everybody knew
everybody's cars.
My gosh.
So they so they, oh, I couldn'tget in to see my family doc.
(06:14):
So they'd drive around, oh,they're on today.
So then they'd come in toemerge.
It was just a lovelyintroduction to rural nerds.
It is something else.
Like you, you want a MacGyve orsomething, that's that's gonna
be the place to go for sure.
Ashley (06:30):
The skills that you learn and that you really hone
in rural medicine, they arethey're very eye-opening,
they're incredible, and theystill serve you even when you're
working in, you know, biggerhospital medicine where there's
more gadgets and more gizmos forfor you to use.
I'm so glad that you've you'vetalked about kind of the
differences there.
And I'd like to tap into that alittle bit more.
Because you've worked in bothcenters.
(06:52):
How do those settings uh, well,I guess I should say, how did
those settings shape yourperspective on team culture?
Because my God, when a team istwo people, two people can be a
team, but your team is rathersmall.
And now you felt like a biggerteam and what that's like.
What's changed or what's kindof helped out with that for you?
Jenn (07:13):
Honestly, the politics.
Um, you know, bullying andnursing, while it is finally
being addressed and finallyreally coming down, um it was
pervasive when I first started.
And so my my first job thathospital, I um I was bullied
relentlessly by my superior.
(07:35):
Couldn't tell you why, otherthan I was a southerner coming
up to the north.
I, you know, I was marryinginto the north.
I don't, I don't know why shehated me so much, but man, she
made my life absolutelymiserable to the point of um
ideation at a point.
Um, but yeah, it was bad.
Um, but getting out of that andrealizing how bad it could be
(08:00):
to then coming to a much largercenter, a stroke center, a huge
hospital system, and beingsurrounded by so many wonderful
people, it made it that muchsweeter to finally have left
that town and had to have gottenout of that situation, come to
the rural to come to the city,kind of quote unquote, come to
(08:21):
the city, and go like, oh hey,this is actual medicine.
This is what's actuallysupposed to be happening.
This is what happens when youhave access to a CT scanner and
RT and um, you know, all theseextra support services and
support people.
Um, holy cow, what do you meanwe've got social work?
(08:42):
What's social work?
You know, it's it was uhmind-boggling to be fair.
And and then the people werejust so incredibly lovely that
it just was such a change.
And I mean, truly, theyprobably could have been
miserable.
And just because I was simplyout of the fact if I wasn't up
north anymore, I probably stillwould have been so excited,
(09:04):
regardless, that it probablywouldn't have mattered.
But the people there, they'vebeen lifelong friends.
I've I keep talking with them.
I just went to, I justvolunteered to do some um camp
nursing with my originalpreceptor from that job.
And we really haven't hung outfor over 10 years, but like it
was like we were back in the ER,it was so much fun.
(09:26):
The options for supportservices and learning and people
actually having your back.
Um, and again, that is not tosay that all rural is like that,
but unfortunately, because itwas so much slower, you know, if
you made mistakes, they wereamplified 100%.
So you would get hauled intothe office if you did not put
(09:49):
extra pieces of blank paper onnight shift into the charts for
day shift.
There were four patients.
Four patients.
You couldn't reach down and andgrab a sheet of paper and put
like that.
Like you're joking.
So when when I made amedication error as a new hire,
(10:11):
it was catastrophic and I gotfired, um, but was able to fight
it and do lots of remediationand and come back and then
worked another five years inthat place.
Um it just goes to show thatlike because there's nothing
else to focus on, they theymitigate the very, very small
things.
(10:31):
So just be aware that that maybe the case.
Ashley (10:37):
I think that's a really good cautionary tale.
And sometimes when you're somicromanaged and you're quote
unquote doing things incorrectlythat really don't contribute to
patient care.
Jenn (10:49):
It don't matter.
Ashley (10:50):
It makes it more stressful when you are making
decisions that contribute topatient care.
And I think those, you know,the environments we talk a lot
with with pre-health studentsabout your environment that
you're working in.
And it's one of the reasons whyI love Shadowy Next because
people describe these settingswhere the environments are just,
I don't want to use the wordtoxic, but toxic.
Oh no, um, you know, it really,like you said, it can really
(11:14):
inhibit you from doing your jobappropriately.
Jen, you you mentioned bullyingin healthcare.
And I'm thank you so much fordiving into that and giving us a
really good example of whatthat looks like.
Um, we hear a lot aboutburnout.
I think you're really goodabout talking about a lot of
these challenges that we'reexperiencing in healthcare right
now.
Bullying is one, burnout'sanother.
You had an experience duringCOVID that was, of course, we
(11:37):
all did, that was reallychallenging.
Challenging for sure, right?
And and you've you've basicallysaid saying in the in the past,
you've said saying yes toyourself doesn't mean saying no
to others.
And I'm sure that that phrasehas come from an understanding
and appreciating all of thesechallenges.
Write that down for us for justa little bit.
Before we hear what Jen has tosay, let's pause briefly for
(12:00):
quality questions.
This is a segment on the showwhere we discuss potential
interview questions that youmight hear on your own
pre-health interview.
Now, this is a really great oneand something that I ask myself
during interviews, and that istell me a time when you said yes
to yourself.
It's incredibly open-ended, butit gives you the opportunity to
(12:22):
really talk about what you feelpassionate about, or perhaps an
opportunity to explain why youchose something that others
might find controversial.
Keep in mind that there's moreinterview prep, such as mock
interviews and personalstatement review, over on
Shadowme Next.com.
There you'll find amazingresources to help you as you
prepare to answer your ownquality questions.
Jenn (12:42):
Yeah, there's nothing like breaking to your absolute
bottom, which again, I thoughtmy bottom was working in that,
you know, place up north andgetting fired and fighting
months to get back.
Um, I thought that was bottom.
And at the time, it was mybottom.
Um, COVID brought a whole newlayer.
Uh, and it wasn't so much, itwasn't so much the medical
(13:06):
ethical decisions.
Like we, thank God, Canna, weweren't nearly to the well, we
just don't have the population.
So we weren't the volume thatyou guys were.
Um, and so that kind of it tookthat portion of the burnout
off.
Um, but then it was the sleepdeprivation.
So I had young kids, my kidswere four and five and a half at
(13:29):
the at the time of lockdown.
Daycare shut down.
All of a sudden we had noaccess to daycares.
Um, my family was um adamantthat they couldn't help out
because granted, they werepetrified.
So they they kind of shut down.
Um, so they weren't able tocome and help watch the kids.
So all of a sudden, and myhusband's also um essential,
he's infection control, no less.
(13:49):
So he um it's one of thosethings where it's we were both
working and I was working shiftwork, he's Monday to Friday,
eight to four.
So there was a little bit ofoverlap where it's like I worked
all night and then I have tostay up all day with the kids
because you can't really let afour and five and a half year
old like go without a moderateamount of supervision.
You like you can't.
(14:11):
You're you're asking fortrouble, it's not gonna go well.
Back in the ED if you do thathundred percent.
So it's like I would stay upall night, then stay up all day,
and then go back into work andstay up all night and then stay
up all day.
Like I was on three days, nosleep at a time.
And when I tell you sleepdeprivation is absolutely used
as a torture method for verygood reason, it is it is it is
(14:35):
something that I had no ideacontributed that much to burnout
because I'd never experiencedit before.
You know, you have your yourmorning, your, you know, the new
mother phase and and getting upwith the kids every two hours
for three to 12 months.
Thank you, Elise.
So, like, yes, you're out ofyour mind, but you got to nap in
between, whereas this was likeflat out.
(14:55):
I was lucky if I got maybe athree-hour nap at work, and then
maybe a one-hour nap at homeonce my husband came home and
before I went into work.
So it was fragmented at best.
So the sleep deprivation, thefear, the anxiety, the you know,
you you underestimate how muchyou take for granted as to
(15:17):
people up top know what they'redoing.
When policies are changingmorning to noon to night, and
then again in the morning, noonto night, and changing almost
hourly, you you feel thatnobody, and again, nobody knew
what was going on, nobody knewwhat was happening in the early
days.
So we all were just kind oftrying to put it together.
(15:39):
But that fear level of, youknow, am I gonna bring this
home?
Am I gonna be put on event?
Am I gonna survive this?
Am I gonna bring it home to mykids?
Am I gonna am I gonna infectsome other family member?
Or am I gonna infect anotherpatient?
Like that was what was runningaround our heads a lot.
Um, so that, you know, thatmixed with the anxiety, mixed
(16:00):
with the fear, mixed with thesleep deprivation, just
completely bottomed out.
So when it came to the pointof, you know, we finally got a
little bit of daycare back, um,I was very adamant, like, I need
sleep.
And and, you know, thank Godthere were therapists who were
willing to volunteer their time.
And I probably racked up likefive grand in free therapy.
I was like, I'm allowed to sayI need to sleep.
(16:23):
That's that's something thatI'm allowed to say.
So let me start taking thatroute and putting myself first.
And, you know, it wasn't untilAugust 2020 that I'm like, no, I
I seriously need to put myselffirst.
Like, I do need to go on medanti uh and like
antidepressants.
I'd never been onantidepressants before.
(16:43):
I need to go to therapy, I needto take time off, I need to
swap my job.
I went to PACU for a period oftime uh for about a year.
Um, I, you know, I needed toswap a whole bunch of things
around to kind of start to makethings work.
And I was like, well, that'swhat needs to happen because I
can't do it all.
And and I we're not even gonnadive into, you know, we're
(17:07):
expected to do it at all andsmile and make dinner.
Um, so like we're not evengonna go down that road.
But the whole point of mesaying, I am it's my happiness
is only my job, and it's nobodyelse's job to focus on me or my
happiness.
It's nice if my husband, youknow, understood that and put
(17:28):
that first.
Great.
But he also was strugglingreally, really hard with COVID,
as as we all were.
So it's like, no, I I very needto put myself first.
And so doing so um led to, oh,okay, like I can I can play with
my career a little bit, I canswap jobs, I can go part-time, I
(17:48):
can then pick up a little bitof agency work on the side,
which two shifts of agency intwo weeks is full-time wages
versus six shifts of my of myregular gig.
So I'm like, oh, okay, I cankind of play with that.
And there's money to be made inflexibility and last minute
notice.
And and travel nursing doesn'tmean, doesn't have to mean
(18:10):
traveling, you know, hours andhours.
I I work within a one-hourradius of my home.
So I can go to work that nightand come home that morning.
It's there's options, but youdo have to be very mindful of
putting yourself first becausenobody else is gonna.
Ashley (18:27):
I love that.
And I love how you've describedthat putting yourself first
doesn't necessarily meanstepping away from your career.
And it might, it might, but foryou, you know, you shifted, you
went to another portion of thehospital, you you maybe took
different hours, you you youtook on places at a different
hospital completely.
You know, you just just justthe ability to be flexible in
(18:49):
nursing, I think is one of thebiggest gifts about nursing.
And um, and there are reallycool opportunities as well.
I always think that travelnursing and getting to meet
people and do something new, um,it really does, it sounds very
exciting.
Let's shift a little bitbecause something that you feel
very passionate about and andsomething I'm excited to talk
about is trusting your gut.
And uh we hear about all thisin medicine on TV all the time.
(19:12):
Like you see Dr.
House and he has a gut feelingand he chases it down and it's
right.
Okay, but but in medicine, wedon't we don't hear about this a
lot.
We always hear about the theevidence-based medicine and the
data and the histories and allthis.
Tell me about trusting yourgut.
What does that look like inmedicine and what does that look
like in nursing too?
Jenn (19:30):
Yeah, I mean, we do it.
I mean, we as women, we do itintuitively.
You know, we've been doing itsince we're 12 plus, you know,
you see a guy on the street,your your gut, you're just like,
oh, I don't know about thatperson.
I don't know about thesituation.
I'm gonna pull myself out.
That's it's more related toself-preservation at that point,
which we have been doing forages.
So we know that feeling, but wedon't know how to use it within
(19:53):
medicine or healthcare uh oreven office settings.
Like we just we don't know howto do it.
So within nursing, I firstfigured out I was doing it at
triage.
Like I just thought I wasplaying a game at triage where I
would start to guess whatpeople were coming in with.
I mean, if they're holdingtheir chest or they're holding
their abdomen, you could, okay,I can kind of understand where
(20:13):
you're coming from.
But if somebody comes in andthey've kind of got vague
complaints and you're like, I'mmissing more to this story.
Like somebody comes in, they'vefallen, things have gotten
inserted in places.
Um, and you know you're missing90% of the story because people
are embarrassed.
They don't want to tell you,they don't, they think that this
(20:34):
is a one-off, that this neverhappens.
Happens all the time.
Um, PSA, please use flaredbases if you're going to insert
anything into your rectum.
Please and thank you.
Love your local URL.
Very much.
Please trust me on this one.
You'll thank me later.
Um, so when people come in andthe story is I've fallen down 10
(20:56):
stairs naked, fallen onto alight bulb, and the light bulb
is still intact.
No, the physics alone do notmake that plausible.
So then it's getting to thepoint of, you know, I understand
that's what you're saying, butlike, you know, this happens all
(21:16):
the time.
This is not even the first timetoday I've seen this.
You know, I just need to knowwhat what's it made of, how long
has it been in there?
Are you having any rectalbleeding?
Are you having any pain,fevers?
Just let me start from there.
And then I could care lessabout what it is and whatever
else.
I don't care.
I just want to make sure thatI'm not missing enough as the
(21:39):
triage nurse that I'mpotentially missing a perforated
bowel.
And now you're gonna sit in mywaiting room for six hours and
have you code in my waiting roomor bleed out or something.
Worst nightmare ever.
Um, so like getting peoplecomfortable to the point of
like, yes, you know, you it'sokay.
(21:59):
Just tell me, just tell me whatit's made of.
And am I worried about likesharp jagged edges in said spot
said safe space, please.
But you know, you would kind ofget to a point where you could
figure out people before theyreally even got into triage.
You go, okay, like I wonder,okay, you're short of breath and
(22:19):
you're kind of, and again, youyou can pick up a lot by just
looking and just listeningwithout even talking to
somebody.
You can really pick up or atleast get a really good sense of
are you sick, not sick, reallysick?
And you know, are they pink,warm, and dry?
So, you know, are there istheir skin pink, warm and dry,
or is it pale, gray, um, green,um, diaphoretic, and and they're
(22:45):
sweating buckets and um andpink or and and cold, you know,
like do they look like they'redeath on a stick?
Um, those and it doesn't matterwhat the story is at that
point, you're just going, no,and I'm just gonna bring you
right back because I don't evenneed your vitals.
Your vitals could have beenpristine, just the physical look
(23:06):
of you, your body is shuttingdown and you're it's
compensating with vitals for themoment, but it's not going to
for long.
So trusting that gut instinctof like, holy crap, something's
wrong.
Let's let's move you and let'slet's do that quickly, um, has
been, you know, I just thought Iwas good at my job.
Like that's what I thought thatwas.
And, you know, thank God thatthere was a teacher in fourth
(23:29):
year who like one timeoff-handedly mentioned trust
your gut.
And then she was off talkingabout some other topic.
And I'm like, okay.
So when it came to, you know,that big center and seeing 80 to
100 people in 12 hours, you gotreally good at like what sick,
not sick, really sick lookedlike.
And then you could followpeople through their journeys.
(23:49):
And and when I'd play and andbe like, oh, I wonder if this is
a pancreatitis, oh, I wonder ifthis is an appendix, oh, I
wonder if it's a PE, or I wonderif it's a fluid overload, like
I wonder what's causing allthis.
And then you can kind of followthem through their your
journey.
And at the end, when you get togo, I called that.
I called that, and that's I'mgonna take that win.
(24:10):
Cause again, you have to takethe wins.
Please take the smallest ofwins because the small wins are
actually go what's gonna make acareer.
Um, but it's just when youfinally get that validation
that, okay, this is what'shappening, um, you know, it's
staggering.
And it can feel like a coupleof different things.
It can feel like a heaviness inyour gut, it can feel kind of
(24:32):
like a little bit of chest painall of a sudden, just like a
heaviness.
You can be at triage andquestions pop into your head
when they wouldn't be typicalquestions that you'd ask at
triage.
When I'm suddenly asking aboutyour death plans um of a very
young guy who's got pancreaticcancer, that's not something I
ask at triage.
Like, you know, I'm not askingabout how your wife's coping and
(24:53):
and what are you thinking andwhat are your plans and all this
kind of stuff.
I don't have time to go intothat usually.
But for that patient, I went onthat tangent after I had
finished triage.
And he and I had a reallydecent five to seven minute
conversation about death cafesand and places where people can
talk about death openly withoutum stigma or or any of that kind
(25:15):
of thing.
And I think I provided him morerelief with that conversation
than the pain relief he wasactually seeking.
Um, and again, it was veryminor pain relief that was just
kind of that's what he waslooking for.
But um that made a difference.
And so sometimes nursing isn'tquite what you think it's gonna
(25:36):
look like on the day-to-day,especially when you start just
kind of going with it and andtrusting your gut.
Ashley (25:43):
I think that is such an incredible story.
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna do abig loop and I'm gonna tie this
around.
But it's trusting your gut uhlargely comes from experience.
And we've already mentionedyou've been doing this for a
really long time.
And I think, I think even as ayoung clinician, as a young
provider, you can have a gutinstinct, but really to have an
(26:05):
established gut instinct, itcomes from seeing things.
And you wrote on your websitethat 30 to 60 percent of new
graduate nurses leave theprofession with entire.
Which is which is just sodisappointing to me when I hear
about these incredible storiesand situations that happen
because of that gut that you'vedeveloped over the course of
time.
So here's the big loop you havecreated this incredible system
(26:28):
to help reduce those numbers andto help people establish this
gut instinct and then be able toshare their own stories.
Um, one of these, well, youhave this incredible website and
you offer amazing resourcesthere with mentorship and an
opportunity to work with andlearn from you.
But you have a book calledNursing Intuition, How to Trust
Your Gut, Save Your Sanity, andSurvive Your Career.
(26:51):
It's an incredible opportunityfor students to really
understand and for nurses tohave the support.
So thank you for writing that.
What would you hope that peopleare taking away from the pages
of this book that you haveworked so hard on?
Jenn (27:07):
Um, that we all learn from stories better than we do from
classrooms.
If somebody is telling you astory, please listen.
They that story has stuck for areason.
There is a lesson in it, eventhough it might just seem like a
funny, ha ha, you know, goofykind of story at 3 a.m., there
(27:27):
is always more to that story andthere's more, there's always a
lesson within it.
So please listen to otherstories because that's half the
fun of nursing is bonding overour very shared experiences that
has spanned, you know, it's 17years at this point with me.
But like we all have thingsthat if you can learn from my
mistakes and please do, I'mreally hoping that you don't
(27:49):
make them yourself.
Like you can save yourself thatagony and and stress and all
that kind of stuff.
I'm hoping you can learn fromit from me.
But at the same time, like thescience is behind nursing
intuition.
So just in the last, I thinkeight months alone, there's
been, I think, 1,300 papers,peer-reviewed, evidence-based,
scholarly-based papers that havebeen published with some form
(28:11):
of um based on nursingintuition, specifically nursing
intuition.
And there's also the statisticthat um even if you so say
you're the new nurse, you haveyou think that something's wrong
with your patient, you go getthe doctor, the doctor has
another touch point on yourpatient.
Even if you're wrong and thedoc nothing changes, there's no
(28:32):
new orders, nothing new happens,that patient outcome still
improves.
So even if you're wrong, you'restill advocating for your
patient, you're still improvingyour patient outcomes, even when
nothing changes.
But again, had you said, okay,I think something's wrong,
doctor comes in, you're right.
You've now saved yourself a tonof grief, a ton of stress and
(28:55):
worry and anxiety, and notpotentially not having that
patient lost, potentially notbringing having to carry that
patient with you, because youwill carry patients with you.
If you can decrease it by oneor five or ten, you know, that
that again builds into havingresilience because now you're
not having to carry thosepatients and their stories with
(29:17):
you as negative stories.
Now it's a learning story.
Hey, I had this patient, thingsweren't going well.
I thought that maybe I shouldjust call the doc, call the doc
something they came in, went,holy cow, we've missed this
entirely.
We're changing course, and nowI've saved that patient.
We don't get saved that often,and usually not in a way that
(29:39):
you can actually come back to.
So when you get those moments,like take them, take them for
all they're worth because thebad days will overshadow the
good for the simple fact ofwe're so hard on ourselves.
Um, so just take it with agrain of salt, trust your gut.
If nothing else, ask somebodyelse, you know, ask.
(29:59):
A coworker, ask your chargenurse, but voice it.
Please just voice it.
Ashley (30:06):
Absolutely incredible.
Jen, you're amazing.
Tell us your website.
Tell us where we can find youand how we can connect with you
and get our hands on these greatresources.
Jenn (30:16):
Yeah.ca.
My TikTok and Instagram is aternurse.genj-e-n-n and LinkedIn,
where I'm actually probably themost active, um, is Jennifer
Johnson B-S-C-N-R-N.
Don't come for me.
There's too many JenniferJohnsons.
(30:37):
So that's where you can findme.
You can also email me atJenj-EN N at NurseJenj-EN dot C
A.
Ashley (30:44):
You are incredible, Jen.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story, for developing these
incredible resources, and forjoining us on Shadow Me Next.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so very much forlistening to this episode of
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
(31:04):
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
Hello and welcome to Shadow Me Next, a podcast where
I take you into and behind thescenes of the medical world to
provide you with a deeperunderstanding of the human side
of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to incredible members of the
(00:22):
healthcare field and uncovertheir unique stories, the joys
and challenges they face, andwhat drives them in their
careers.
It's access you want andstories you need.
Whether you're a pre-healthstudent or simply curious about
the healthcare field, I inviteyou to join me as we take a
conversational and personal lookinto the lives and minds of
(00:43):
leaders in medicine.
I don't want you to miss asingle one of these
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So make sure that you subscribeto this podcast, which will
automatically notify you whennew episodes are dropped.
And follow us on Instagram andFacebook at Shadow Me Next,
where we will review highlightsfrom this conversation and where
I'll give you sneak previews ofour upcoming guests.
(01:03):
Nursing was never on JenJohnson's radar.
In fact, she'll tell you shefell into it after failing
organic chemistry.
What started as a compressednursing program led her to a
small rural hospital in NorthernOntario, where she often was
the only RN on duty, callingphysicians in as needed,
(01:24):
learning to MacGyver solutions,and realizing she had a gift for
the fast-paced world ofemergency medicine.
But Jen's story gets even moreinteresting.
She opens up about beingbullied early in her career,
hitting a breaking point duringCOVID when she was juggling ER
shifts and two small childrenwithout sleep, and how she
(01:45):
rebuilt resilience.
She shares the lessons thatshaped her, like why trusting
your gut in medicine can savelives, why saying yes to
yourself doesn't mean saying noto others, and how listening to
stories can be the most powerfulform of medical education.
Today, Jen is not just an ERnurse.
(02:06):
She's a mentor, a writer, andan advocate helping other nurses
survive their careers with bothskill and sanity intact.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
(02:27):
those of the host and guests anddo not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany other agency, organization,
employer, or company.
This is Shadow Me Next with JenJohnson.
Jen, thank you so much forjoining us on Shadow Me Next
today.
This is going to be a reallyeye-opening conversation for a
lot of people.
Number one, because of what youdo and where you work, but
(02:50):
number two, because of yourexperiences in those places.
So thanks for joining us.
Thanks for taking the time.
Oh my God, Ashley, thank you somuch for having me.
I'm excited.
So number one, because you workin the ER, which is just an
incredible, um, it's anincredible place.
Incredible is a big word andit's a it's a big place.
So that's fitting.
Um but your career spans almostdecades, multiple decades now.
(03:12):
Uh you live in Ontario.
Looking back, tell us whatinitially drew you to emergency
medicine nursing.
Let's start there.
Jenn (03:21):
Yeah, I mean, I I fell into nursing first.
I never once wanted to be anurse.
I never thought about being anurse.
It was never on my radar ever.
Um, I ended up going intobiology right after high school
and went through that programfor about a year, got into
second year, and then failed myfirst half of organic chemistry.
I, for the life of me, couldn'twrap my head around it.
(03:43):
It just wasn't happening.
So I kind of looked around andI'm like, well, now I'm a year
behind.
Like, do I really want to keepdoing this?
I still don't even know if Icould pass the class totally.
Um, so what else?
And thank God one of myroommates in first year had was
a nursing student, and we'd gothrough her textbooks and her
Mosby's dictionary and look atall the really gross pictures.
And you're like, oh my God,that's what I want to do.
(04:05):
So thankfully, my universityhad a three-year compressed
program for uh the BSCN.
So swapped right into that, wasable to work it at a four-year
pace because I'd already hadalmost two years worth of
credits.
It was a win-win.
And then with the ER, my myfirst job out of high school or
out of high school, out ofuniversity was um a very
(04:27):
exceedingly small rural hospitalin Northwest Ontario because
I'd met my husband and he livedup there and was from there.
And so I was like, I'm gonnamove in, I'm gonna save the
town.
Genius.
The the hospital was so smallthat there was one RN for a
merge.
That was it.
And you called the physician inwhen you needed them.
(04:48):
And they were a familyphysician who happened to cover
a merge.
Looking back, so many redflags.
Um, and then, you know, therewas one RN for the floor with
two RPNs or LVNs.
Um, and the floor was maybe 14beds total.
But I mean, anything thatactually was remotely ill, we
sent out.
(05:08):
Um, seeing the helicopter comedown, I mean, that was a big
love moment when it was likelanding at the ER doors, and
you're like, oh my gosh, this isso cool.
But I mean, I I never thoughtabout a merge.
I it never even clicked.
But because of this role, um,because there were only two RNs
(05:29):
on at a time, you just swap.
So one day shift, you'd be,you'd usually start out first
day at eMERGE, and then thesecond day, then you'd be on the
floor.
Uh, and you just swap back andforth.
And that's it.
And that's what was theexpectation, and and that was
the job.
So half the time I was inemerge, and I'm like, oh, I
really, really like this.
I like the quick in and out, Ilike the quickie problem solved.
(05:53):
You know, if what I'm seeingnow 70% walks into the ER, they
shouldn't even be there.
Um, I'm gonna say 90% of what Isaw up north really shouldn't
have been there, but they thetownsfolk had driven around and
seen which doctor was on callbecause everybody knew
everybody's cars.
My gosh.
So they so they, oh, I couldn'tget in to see my family doc.
(06:14):
So they'd drive around, oh,they're on today.
So then they'd come in toemerge.
It was just a lovelyintroduction to rural nerds.
It is something else.
Like you, you want a MacGyve orsomething, that's that's gonna
be the place to go for sure.
Ashley (06:30):
The skills that you learn and that you really hone
in rural medicine, they arethey're very eye-opening,
they're incredible, and theystill serve you even when you're
working in, you know, biggerhospital medicine where there's
more gadgets and more gizmos forfor you to use.
I'm so glad that you've you'vetalked about kind of the
differences there.
And I'd like to tap into that alittle bit more.
Because you've worked in bothcenters.
(06:52):
How do those settings uh, well,I guess I should say, how did
those settings shape yourperspective on team culture?
Because my God, when a team istwo people, two people can be a
team, but your team is rathersmall.
And now you felt like a biggerteam and what that's like.
What's changed or what's kindof helped out with that for you?
Jenn (07:13):
Honestly, the politics.
Um, you know, bullying andnursing, while it is finally
being addressed and finallyreally coming down, um it was
pervasive when I first started.
And so my my first job thathospital, I um I was bullied
relentlessly by my superior.
(07:35):
Couldn't tell you why, otherthan I was a southerner coming
up to the north.
I, you know, I was marryinginto the north.
I don't, I don't know why shehated me so much, but man, she
made my life absolutelymiserable to the point of um
ideation at a point.
Um, but yeah, it was bad.
Um, but getting out of that andrealizing how bad it could be
(08:00):
to then coming to a much largercenter, a stroke center, a huge
hospital system, and beingsurrounded by so many wonderful
people, it made it that muchsweeter to finally have left
that town and had to have gottenout of that situation, come to
the rural to come to the city,kind of quote unquote, come to
(08:21):
the city, and go like, oh hey,this is actual medicine.
This is what's actuallysupposed to be happening.
This is what happens when youhave access to a CT scanner and
RT and um, you know, all theseextra support services and
support people.
Um, holy cow, what do you meanwe've got social work?
(08:42):
What's social work?
You know, it's it was uhmind-boggling to be fair.
And and then the people werejust so incredibly lovely that
it just was such a change.
And I mean, truly, theyprobably could have been
miserable.
And just because I was simplyout of the fact if I wasn't up
north anymore, I probably stillwould have been so excited,
(09:04):
regardless, that it probablywouldn't have mattered.
But the people there, they'vebeen lifelong friends.
I've I keep talking with them.
I just went to, I justvolunteered to do some um camp
nursing with my originalpreceptor from that job.
And we really haven't hung outfor over 10 years, but like it
was like we were back in the ER,it was so much fun.
(09:26):
The options for supportservices and learning and people
actually having your back.
Um, and again, that is not tosay that all rural is like that,
but unfortunately, because itwas so much slower, you know, if
you made mistakes, they wereamplified 100%.
So you would get hauled intothe office if you did not put
(09:49):
extra pieces of blank paper onnight shift into the charts for
day shift.
There were four patients.
Four patients.
You couldn't reach down and andgrab a sheet of paper and put
like that.
Like you're joking.
So when when I made amedication error as a new hire,
(10:11):
it was catastrophic and I gotfired, um, but was able to fight
it and do lots of remediationand and come back and then
worked another five years inthat place.
Um it just goes to show thatlike because there's nothing
else to focus on, they theymitigate the very, very small
things.
(10:31):
So just be aware that that maybe the case.
Ashley (10:37):
I think that's a really good cautionary tale.
And sometimes when you're somicromanaged and you're quote
unquote doing things incorrectlythat really don't contribute to
patient care.
Jenn (10:49):
It don't matter.
Ashley (10:50):
It makes it more stressful when you are making
decisions that contribute topatient care.
And I think those, you know,the environments we talk a lot
with with pre-health studentsabout your environment that
you're working in.
And it's one of the reasons whyI love Shadowy Next because
people describe these settingswhere the environments are just,
I don't want to use the wordtoxic, but toxic.
Oh no, um, you know, it really,like you said, it can really
(11:14):
inhibit you from doing your jobappropriately.
Jen, you you mentioned bullyingin healthcare.
And I'm thank you so much fordiving into that and giving us a
really good example of whatthat looks like.
Um, we hear a lot aboutburnout.
I think you're really goodabout talking about a lot of
these challenges that we'reexperiencing in healthcare right
now.
Bullying is one, burnout'sanother.
You had an experience duringCOVID that was, of course, we
(11:37):
all did, that was reallychallenging.
Challenging for sure, right?
And and you've you've basicallysaid saying in the in the past,
you've said saying yes toyourself doesn't mean saying no
to others.
And I'm sure that that phrasehas come from an understanding
and appreciating all of thesechallenges.
Write that down for us for justa little bit.
Before we hear what Jen has tosay, let's pause briefly for
(12:00):
quality questions.
This is a segment on the showwhere we discuss potential
interview questions that youmight hear on your own
pre-health interview.
Now, this is a really great oneand something that I ask myself
during interviews, and that istell me a time when you said yes
to yourself.
It's incredibly open-ended, butit gives you the opportunity to
(12:22):
really talk about what you feelpassionate about, or perhaps an
opportunity to explain why youchose something that others
might find controversial.
Keep in mind that there's moreinterview prep, such as mock
interviews and personalstatement review, over on
Shadowme Next.com.
There you'll find amazingresources to help you as you
prepare to answer your ownquality questions.
Jenn (12:42):
Yeah, there's nothing like breaking to your absolute
bottom, which again, I thoughtmy bottom was working in that,
you know, place up north andgetting fired and fighting
months to get back.
Um, I thought that was bottom.
And at the time, it was mybottom.
Um, COVID brought a whole newlayer.
Uh, and it wasn't so much, itwasn't so much the medical
(13:06):
ethical decisions.
Like we, thank God, Canna, weweren't nearly to the well, we
just don't have the population.
So we weren't the volume thatyou guys were.
Um, and so that kind of it tookthat portion of the burnout
off.
Um, but then it was the sleepdeprivation.
So I had young kids, my kidswere four and five and a half at
(13:29):
the at the time of lockdown.
Daycare shut down.
All of a sudden we had noaccess to daycares.
Um, my family was um adamantthat they couldn't help out
because granted, they werepetrified.
So they they kind of shut down.
Um, so they weren't able tocome and help watch the kids.
So all of a sudden, and myhusband's also um essential,
he's infection control, no less.
(13:49):
So he um it's one of thosethings where it's we were both
working and I was working shiftwork, he's Monday to Friday,
eight to four.
So there was a little bit ofoverlap where it's like I worked
all night and then I have tostay up all day with the kids
because you can't really let afour and five and a half year
old like go without a moderateamount of supervision.
You like you can't.
(14:11):
You're you're asking fortrouble, it's not gonna go well.
Back in the ED if you do thathundred percent.
So it's like I would stay upall night, then stay up all day,
and then go back into work andstay up all night and then stay
up all day.
Like I was on three days, nosleep at a time.
And when I tell you sleepdeprivation is absolutely used
as a torture method for verygood reason, it is it is it is
(14:35):
something that I had no ideacontributed that much to burnout
because I'd never experiencedit before.
You know, you have your yourmorning, your, you know, the new
mother phase and and getting upwith the kids every two hours
for three to 12 months.
Thank you, Elise.
So, like, yes, you're out ofyour mind, but you got to nap in
between, whereas this was likeflat out.
(14:55):
I was lucky if I got maybe athree-hour nap at work, and then
maybe a one-hour nap at homeonce my husband came home and
before I went into work.
So it was fragmented at best.
So the sleep deprivation, thefear, the anxiety, the you know,
you you underestimate how muchyou take for granted as to
(15:17):
people up top know what they'redoing.
When policies are changingmorning to noon to night, and
then again in the morning, noonto night, and changing almost
hourly, you you feel thatnobody, and again, nobody knew
what was going on, nobody knewwhat was happening in the early
days.
So we all were just kind oftrying to put it together.
(15:39):
But that fear level of, youknow, am I gonna bring this
home?
Am I gonna be put on event?
Am I gonna survive this?
Am I gonna bring it home to mykids?
Am I gonna am I gonna infectsome other family member?
Or am I gonna infect anotherpatient?
Like that was what was runningaround our heads a lot.
Um, so that, you know, thatmixed with the anxiety, mixed
(16:00):
with the fear, mixed with thesleep deprivation, just
completely bottomed out.
So when it came to the pointof, you know, we finally got a
little bit of daycare back, um,I was very adamant, like, I need
sleep.
And and, you know, thank Godthere were therapists who were
willing to volunteer their time.
And I probably racked up likefive grand in free therapy.
I was like, I'm allowed to sayI need to sleep.
(16:23):
That's that's something thatI'm allowed to say.
So let me start taking thatroute and putting myself first.
And, you know, it wasn't untilAugust 2020 that I'm like, no, I
I seriously need to put myselffirst.
Like, I do need to go on medanti uh and like
antidepressants.
I'd never been onantidepressants before.
(16:43):
I need to go to therapy, I needto take time off, I need to
swap my job.
I went to PACU for a period oftime uh for about a year.
Um, I, you know, I needed toswap a whole bunch of things
around to kind of start to makethings work.
And I was like, well, that'swhat needs to happen because I
can't do it all.
And and I we're not even gonnadive into, you know, we're
(17:07):
expected to do it at all andsmile and make dinner.
Um, so like we're not evengonna go down that road.
But the whole point of mesaying, I am it's my happiness
is only my job, and it's nobodyelse's job to focus on me or my
happiness.
It's nice if my husband, youknow, understood that and put
(17:28):
that first.
Great.
But he also was strugglingreally, really hard with COVID,
as as we all were.
So it's like, no, I I very needto put myself first.
And so doing so um led to, oh,okay, like I can I can play with
my career a little bit, I canswap jobs, I can go part-time, I
(17:48):
can then pick up a little bitof agency work on the side,
which two shifts of agency intwo weeks is full-time wages
versus six shifts of my of myregular gig.
So I'm like, oh, okay, I cankind of play with that.
And there's money to be made inflexibility and last minute
notice.
And and travel nursing doesn'tmean, doesn't have to mean
(18:10):
traveling, you know, hours andhours.
I I work within a one-hourradius of my home.
So I can go to work that nightand come home that morning.
It's there's options, but youdo have to be very mindful of
putting yourself first becausenobody else is gonna.
Ashley (18:27):
I love that.
And I love how you've describedthat putting yourself first
doesn't necessarily meanstepping away from your career.
And it might, it might, but foryou, you know, you shifted, you
went to another portion of thehospital, you you maybe took
different hours, you you youtook on places at a different
hospital completely.
You know, you just just justthe ability to be flexible in
(18:49):
nursing, I think is one of thebiggest gifts about nursing.
And um, and there are reallycool opportunities as well.
I always think that travelnursing and getting to meet
people and do something new, um,it really does, it sounds very
exciting.
Let's shift a little bitbecause something that you feel
very passionate about and andsomething I'm excited to talk
about is trusting your gut.
And uh we hear about all thisin medicine on TV all the time.
(19:12):
Like you see Dr.
House and he has a gut feelingand he chases it down and it's
right.
Okay, but but in medicine, wedon't we don't hear about this a
lot.
We always hear about the theevidence-based medicine and the
data and the histories and allthis.
Tell me about trusting yourgut.
What does that look like inmedicine and what does that look
like in nursing too?
Jenn (19:30):
Yeah, I mean, we do it.
I mean, we as women, we do itintuitively.
You know, we've been doing itsince we're 12 plus, you know,
you see a guy on the street,your your gut, you're just like,
oh, I don't know about thatperson.
I don't know about thesituation.
I'm gonna pull myself out.
That's it's more related toself-preservation at that point,
which we have been doing forages.
So we know that feeling, but wedon't know how to use it within
(19:53):
medicine or healthcare uh oreven office settings.
Like we just we don't know howto do it.
So within nursing, I firstfigured out I was doing it at
triage.
Like I just thought I wasplaying a game at triage where I
would start to guess whatpeople were coming in with.
I mean, if they're holdingtheir chest or they're holding
their abdomen, you could, okay,I can kind of understand where
(20:13):
you're coming from.
But if somebody comes in andthey've kind of got vague
complaints and you're like, I'mmissing more to this story.
Like somebody comes in, they'vefallen, things have gotten
inserted in places.
Um, and you know you're missing90% of the story because people
are embarrassed.
They don't want to tell you,they don't, they think that this
(20:34):
is a one-off, that this neverhappens.
Happens all the time.
Um, PSA, please use flaredbases if you're going to insert
anything into your rectum.
Please and thank you.
Love your local URL.
Very much.
Please trust me on this one.
You'll thank me later.
Um, so when people come in andthe story is I've fallen down 10
(20:56):
stairs naked, fallen onto alight bulb, and the light bulb
is still intact.
No, the physics alone do notmake that plausible.
So then it's getting to thepoint of, you know, I understand
that's what you're saying, butlike, you know, this happens all
(21:16):
the time.
This is not even the first timetoday I've seen this.
You know, I just need to knowwhat what's it made of, how long
has it been in there?
Are you having any rectalbleeding?
Are you having any pain,fevers?
Just let me start from there.
And then I could care lessabout what it is and whatever
else.
I don't care.
I just want to make sure thatI'm not missing enough as the
(21:39):
triage nurse that I'mpotentially missing a perforated
bowel.
And now you're gonna sit in mywaiting room for six hours and
have you code in my waiting roomor bleed out or something.
Worst nightmare ever.
Um, so like getting peoplecomfortable to the point of
like, yes, you know, you it'sokay.
(21:59):
Just tell me, just tell me whatit's made of.
And am I worried about likesharp jagged edges in said spot
said safe space, please.
But you know, you would kind ofget to a point where you could
figure out people before theyreally even got into triage.
You go, okay, like I wonder,okay, you're short of breath and
(22:19):
you're kind of, and again, youyou can pick up a lot by just
looking and just listeningwithout even talking to
somebody.
You can really pick up or atleast get a really good sense of
are you sick, not sick, reallysick?
And you know, are they pink,warm, and dry?
So, you know, are there istheir skin pink, warm and dry,
or is it pale, gray, um, green,um, diaphoretic, and and they're
(22:45):
sweating buckets and um andpink or and and cold, you know,
like do they look like they'redeath on a stick?
Um, those and it doesn't matterwhat the story is at that
point, you're just going, no,and I'm just gonna bring you
right back because I don't evenneed your vitals.
Your vitals could have beenpristine, just the physical look
(23:06):
of you, your body is shuttingdown and you're it's
compensating with vitals for themoment, but it's not going to
for long.
So trusting that gut instinctof like, holy crap, something's
wrong.
Let's let's move you and let'slet's do that quickly, um, has
been, you know, I just thought Iwas good at my job.
Like that's what I thought thatwas.
And, you know, thank God thatthere was a teacher in fourth
(23:29):
year who like one timeoff-handedly mentioned trust
your gut.
And then she was off talkingabout some other topic.
And I'm like, okay.
So when it came to, you know,that big center and seeing 80 to
100 people in 12 hours, you gotreally good at like what sick,
not sick, really sick lookedlike.
And then you could followpeople through their journeys.
(23:49):
And and when I'd play and andbe like, oh, I wonder if this is
a pancreatitis, oh, I wonder ifthis is an appendix, oh, I
wonder if it's a PE, or I wonderif it's a fluid overload, like
I wonder what's causing allthis.
And then you can kind of followthem through their your
journey.
And at the end, when you get togo, I called that.
I called that, and that's I'mgonna take that win.
(24:10):
Cause again, you have to takethe wins.
Please take the smallest ofwins because the small wins are
actually go what's gonna make acareer.
Um, but it's just when youfinally get that validation
that, okay, this is what'shappening, um, you know, it's
staggering.
And it can feel like a coupleof different things.
It can feel like a heaviness inyour gut, it can feel kind of
(24:32):
like a little bit of chest painall of a sudden, just like a
heaviness.
You can be at triage andquestions pop into your head
when they wouldn't be typicalquestions that you'd ask at
triage.
When I'm suddenly asking aboutyour death plans um of a very
young guy who's got pancreaticcancer, that's not something I
ask at triage.
Like, you know, I'm not askingabout how your wife's coping and
(24:53):
and what are you thinking andwhat are your plans and all this
kind of stuff.
I don't have time to go intothat usually.
But for that patient, I went onthat tangent after I had
finished triage.
And he and I had a reallydecent five to seven minute
conversation about death cafesand and places where people can
talk about death openly withoutum stigma or or any of that kind
(25:15):
of thing.
And I think I provided him morerelief with that conversation
than the pain relief he wasactually seeking.
Um, and again, it was veryminor pain relief that was just
kind of that's what he waslooking for.
But um that made a difference.
And so sometimes nursing isn'tquite what you think it's gonna
(25:36):
look like on the day-to-day,especially when you start just
kind of going with it and andtrusting your gut.
Ashley (25:43):
I think that is such an incredible story.
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna do abig loop and I'm gonna tie this
around.
But it's trusting your gut uhlargely comes from experience.
And we've already mentionedyou've been doing this for a
really long time.
And I think, I think even as ayoung clinician, as a young
provider, you can have a gutinstinct, but really to have an
(26:05):
established gut instinct, itcomes from seeing things.
And you wrote on your websitethat 30 to 60 percent of new
graduate nurses leave theprofession with entire.
Which is which is just sodisappointing to me when I hear
about these incredible storiesand situations that happen
because of that gut that you'vedeveloped over the course of
time.
So here's the big loop you havecreated this incredible system
(26:28):
to help reduce those numbers andto help people establish this
gut instinct and then be able toshare their own stories.
Um, one of these, well, youhave this incredible website and
you offer amazing resourcesthere with mentorship and an
opportunity to work with andlearn from you.
But you have a book calledNursing Intuition, How to Trust
Your Gut, Save Your Sanity, andSurvive Your Career.
(26:51):
It's an incredible opportunityfor students to really
understand and for nurses tohave the support.
So thank you for writing that.
What would you hope that peopleare taking away from the pages
of this book that you haveworked so hard on?
Jenn (27:07):
Um, that we all learn from stories better than we do from
classrooms.
If somebody is telling you astory, please listen.
They that story has stuck for areason.
There is a lesson in it, eventhough it might just seem like a
funny, ha ha, you know, goofykind of story at 3 a.m., there
(27:27):
is always more to that story andthere's more, there's always a
lesson within it.
So please listen to otherstories because that's half the
fun of nursing is bonding overour very shared experiences that
has spanned, you know, it's 17years at this point with me.
But like we all have thingsthat if you can learn from my
mistakes and please do, I'mreally hoping that you don't
(27:49):
make them yourself.
Like you can save yourself thatagony and and stress and all
that kind of stuff.
I'm hoping you can learn fromit from me.
But at the same time, like thescience is behind nursing
intuition.
So just in the last, I thinkeight months alone, there's
been, I think, 1,300 papers,peer-reviewed, evidence-based,
scholarly-based papers that havebeen published with some form
(28:11):
of um based on nursingintuition, specifically nursing
intuition.
And there's also the statisticthat um even if you so say
you're the new nurse, you haveyou think that something's wrong
with your patient, you go getthe doctor, the doctor has
another touch point on yourpatient.
Even if you're wrong and thedoc nothing changes, there's no
(28:32):
new orders, nothing new happens,that patient outcome still
improves.
So even if you're wrong, you'restill advocating for your
patient, you're still improvingyour patient outcomes, even when
nothing changes.
But again, had you said, okay,I think something's wrong,
doctor comes in, you're right.
You've now saved yourself a tonof grief, a ton of stress and
(28:55):
worry and anxiety, and notpotentially not having that
patient lost, potentially notbringing having to carry that
patient with you, because youwill carry patients with you.
If you can decrease it by oneor five or ten, you know, that
that again builds into havingresilience because now you're
not having to carry thosepatients and their stories with
(29:17):
you as negative stories.
Now it's a learning story.
Hey, I had this patient, thingsweren't going well.
I thought that maybe I shouldjust call the doc, call the doc
something they came in, went,holy cow, we've missed this
entirely.
We're changing course, and nowI've saved that patient.
We don't get saved that often,and usually not in a way that
(29:39):
you can actually come back to.
So when you get those moments,like take them, take them for
all they're worth because thebad days will overshadow the
good for the simple fact ofwe're so hard on ourselves.
Um, so just take it with agrain of salt, trust your gut.
If nothing else, ask somebodyelse, you know, ask.
(29:59):
A coworker, ask your chargenurse, but voice it.
Please just voice it.
Ashley (30:06):
Absolutely incredible.
Jen, you're amazing.
Tell us your website.
Tell us where we can find youand how we can connect with you
and get our hands on these greatresources.
Jenn (30:16):
Yeah.ca.
My TikTok and Instagram is aternurse.genj-e-n-n and LinkedIn,
where I'm actually probably themost active, um, is Jennifer
Johnson B-S-C-N-R-N.
Don't come for me.
There's too many JenniferJohnsons.
(30:37):
So that's where you can findme.
You can also email me atJenj-EN N at NurseJenj-EN dot C
A.
Ashley (30:44):
You are incredible, Jen.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story, for developing these
incredible resources, and forjoining us on Shadow Me Next.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so very much forlistening to this episode of
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
(31:04):
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
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