April 21, 2025 • 54 mins
In this powerful episode of Shaping Freedom, we sit down with Nichole MacDonald — entrepreneur, community builder, and visionary — as she shares how she transformed her brand into not just a business, but a movement and a thriving community. Through every trial and tribulation, Nichole stayed committed to her decisions and stayed grounded in her purpose. She opens up about the everyday challenges she faced personally and being resilient, the power of walking through the storm, and how she learned to connect with her audience through positivity. This episode is a reminder that even on the hardest days, trying your best and making decisions on your own conscience can take you further than you think.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
The key is making decisions and empowering them and not
needing to know if it was the correct or incorrect.
There's positive and negative consequences to every decision that you make,
and you can try and anticipate them, but you're not
going to know them until you actually empower that choice
and move forward with a thing and then be willing
to make another decision. The harder part is not letting
(00:31):
other people's ideas about your decision making stop you from
making the decisions that you want to make.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Shaping Freedom podcast, where we dive into
conversations that inspire personal growth, transformation and clarity and challenging times.
I'm your host, Lissan Basquiat. Today's guest is a woman
who has done something truly rare. She's built a product
that became a brand, a brand that became a movement,
(01:00):
and a movement that became a community. Nicole MacDonald is
the visionary, founder and CEO of The sash Bag. The
sash Bag is a cross body design that solved a
real life problem and gained a global cult following. It
wasn't just about convenience or style, it was about freedom.
Nicole's creation became a symbol for women who were ready
(01:23):
to ditch the baggage literally and metaphorically and carry their
lives with more ease and confidence. But what makes Nicole
truly extraordinary is what she's done beyond the bag. On
top of the work that she's done with the bag.
She's one of the most respected and beloved entrepreneurial leaders
in the San Diego community. Through her years of hands
(01:47):
on leadership with NOBO San Diego, including serving as chapter president,
her connection to San Diego's entrepreneurial leaders looking for support
and mentorship, she serves She's lifted others while also climbing.
She fosters collaboration and championing women owned businesses and has
(02:11):
been doing that long before it became a trending topic.
Nicole's not just a businesswoman. She's a community architect. She's bold,
a heart led trailblazer, and she shows up fully and
completely even in the messy middle of life and business.
And she always shows up with authenticity, wit, and with
(02:33):
an open heart. She's held space for others, advocated for
policy change, she builds teams, she's rallied backers and turned
roadblocks into stories of triumph, and along the way, She's
curated a loyal and loving tribe who don't just buy
what she makes, they believe in who Nicole is. She's
(02:55):
a proud mother, a fierce friend, and a personal source
of inspiration for me. It's an honor to welcome my
dear friend and Powerhouse sister Nicole McDonald to the show. Nicole, welcome.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Oh my gosh, I didn't know I was going to
cry in the first five seconds.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
This is you, but this is you. I you know,
I felt nervous, and I I don't really feel nervous.
I usually feel excited about interviews, and for some reason
I was twirling around a bit.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I felt the same thing, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And I was like, wow, well, I don't know what
are we going to talk about? What what are we
going to talk about? Which is hilarious because you and
I talk all day every day, all day every day,
and so anyway, I I'm really excited that you've agreed
to come back on the show. I want to share
(04:06):
some of your incredible magic and resilience and power and
mentorship with the Shaping Freedom audience. And I guess let's
just kind of dive into it. How are you? What's
going on? What are the problems and solve them of.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
The world of the world, the world of the world.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I guess we could start with this. You know,
you have created this incredible movement, and again I think
it's so beyond a brand. And this conversation isn't just
from the perspective of you being an entrepreneur and founding
the sash bag. But you've created this movement, a national
(04:55):
movement amongst women and people who were this bag. What
has that kind of leadership meant to you? And was
that your intention?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Well, I'll start with was that my intention? And no,
not initially. So everything that has happened with this community
movement was it happened naturally. It happened organically. I didn't
expect it. I didn't know what to do with it.
It wasn't a strategy. It really came from the product itself.
(05:33):
Is something that changes people. And I hear this over
and over and the reason is because it like literally
changes your physiology a little bit. When you stop carrying
a purse that's like kind of even a little bit
like making you off center. And then there's also the
mental capacity of like not having to worry about this
(05:53):
thing that you're carrying around and so it shifts you
in multiple ways. And what I noticed is that people
were so impacted by that shift that they were wanting
to talk about it, like, oh my gosh. And it
seems like a small thing, like oh, a handbag of purse,
but when you think about it, like for centuries, there
has not been any innovation in the way that women
carry things, and so it just did something to people
(06:18):
where they wanted to connect. And so that was happening
so naturally that I thought, Okay, well, I need to
create a container for that. So people aren't, you know,
reaching out to me, and they were trying to connect
on our Facebook page and commenting on each other's things,
and I'm like, all right, let me let me organize
this a little bit because I think there's something to it.
(06:40):
So that's that's really how it began. And then what
it has meant to me is this is going to
sound like an exaggeration, but everything because everything that the
company has been through, and we have been through a lot,
the only reason I've been able to get through it
is because of the community. Because these women are like,
(07:02):
We're not going to let the pandemic ruin your company.
We're not going to let a manufacturing conflict ruin your company.
Like we're here and you know this is about all
of us. It's not actually about the purse. So that's
how it has turned from just this idea for connecting
into literally the thing that makes my business work.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I think that it's I think the carrying the
bag is such a metaphor for the experience that so
many women have, right where things are one sided and
we feel burdened and we're trying to find a way
to fill the other side and balance things out in
some way.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And also like doing kind of silly things just from
a place of automaticity. Right, it's like so auto actually, oh,
we just throw that in my purse, Like let me
just throw it in there and deal with it later.
And the next thing, I know, like all that adds
up into something that's like, oh now I need to
like dump my whole purse out. Right. That's what we
do with our life to it's like letting the things
(08:01):
go to do and.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Then all of a sudden, it's like that exactly what
I love about the the the just the way the
sash bag is designed is that it actually is designed
to accommodate our ever expanding.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Capacity, you know. And so it's like you start off
and it's very easy, and it's very slender in design intentionally,
I'm sure. And then like you do have the ability
to put more into it, but it also and it
also reminds you to pay attention to that.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, you have to be careful about what you put
in it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, because after a while you get to the point
where it's like, Okay, it's still looking really beautiful, but
it's all bunk bulky, like what do I need to
pull out of this bag that that that's just not
needed there? So what has so you've built this incredible
following of people who really use this platform and community
(09:02):
to talk about all kinds of things that are happening
in their lives. And what has it meant to you
to lead that, to lead that conversation? Because I think
the one thing and I mentioned it in the introduction,
the one thing that's so unique about you, Nicole, is
(09:22):
that you put it all on the table. You are raw,
You're authentic. I can tell you the things that that
that I see that you model. You model what life
looks like when you truly want to be baggage free.
I mean you you're vulnerable, you share your wins, you
(09:45):
share the losses, you share all of it, the entire journey.
What has that been like for you to model that
for so many people?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It it's been a while of things. I'll start with sharing.
The feedback that I get, Like, what it's been for
me is knowing what it's doing for other people. So
I often get people reaching out to me after every
time everything I share, everything I share, somebody or multiple
(10:18):
people will reach out to me and thank me for
it because I said something that they wanted to say,
or that they wish people would say, or I had
them feel seen, you know, because there's things that we
will say out loud in this community that a lot
of people only think. And the other thing is that
I've created a lot of safety in this group because
(10:39):
I do monitor it very closely and make sure that
the conversations are staying positive and elevated. Like we don't
need to talk about everything, right, we want to talk
about things that are real and true and vulnerable, but
we also like are zero tolerance for negativity, for hate,
(11:01):
for name calling, for anything like that. So it's like
this balance of being open and sharing, but also like
being a stand for it being a positive experience and
if you have something shitty to say about something vulnerable,
I'm sharing, get out right. And so then that allows
(11:21):
everyone else to know like, oh, this is a safe
space for me to share and for me to connect. Yeah,
I'd love.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That, because it's like, if you're in the community, someone
will say something and not something will maybe come on
and make a comment that is really unnecessary and kind
of you know, nasty, and it's almost like before you
could get in there, the community is like, no, leave
her alone. She said that this is going to happen,
(11:51):
or she already shared that. So it's really just as
someone who aspires to build community or who is in
the process of building community, you're such a role model
again an inspiration for how to do it and how
to do it with love and with heart and and
(12:14):
welcoming heart. You know, there's no one that goes through
your community in real life, online, in your meta group,
in your SASH community. There's no one who experiences you
who doesn't get the joy of feeling one hundred percent seen,
(12:39):
appreciated and respected and that and that is rare and
I'm hoping can be more normalized.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I was just going to say that I wish it
wasn't so rare, and I think that's why it's so
I don't want use the word addicting, but it's like
and so i'viting for people right, like because yeah, there
aren't a lot of places where people feel really safe
to be themselves and like someone is going to protect
you if someone comes after you or yeah to like
(13:12):
you know, have those boundaries in place. The Internet is
like the wild wild West almost everywhere else you go.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So literally literally, So how do you do that? How
do you do that? Like what are if you were
to think about like the three to five principles that
Nicole McDonald lives by, what would they be?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well? I think the first one is responsibility. So I
always try to communicate from a place of responsibility so
that I'm not leaving a lot of room for people
to say something to me that I don't already know,
Like yeah, yeah, I already know that, Like I already
said that, you know, you don't have to say it again.
(13:56):
So there's that, And then there's compassion. So I always
try to imagine how someone else is feeling, and I
do that in my communication, but also when I'm moderating
my community, and I can't tell you how many times
this has happened. So this happens in the community, it
(14:16):
helps happens with customer service, and just a little aside.
I train my customer service staff to treat people the
way you would treat a friend, and I mean that genuinely,
and compassion is such a huge part of it, because
if you can understand that, like people are people, people
are people in all over the place. You know, they're
(14:37):
coming into the community, they're coming into our inbox, and they're
people in So most of the time when they lash out,
when they when you tell them something from a place
of your heart and they take it in some other
way and they get angry, if you can just even
if you don't, you don't have to know what they're
going through, but you just like assume, like, Okay, there's
something else that's underneath this that actually has nothing to
(14:59):
do with me. Like I've our taking responsibility for what
I need to right, so that's already established, so I
know that this has nothing to actually do with me.
So what if I just connect with this person and
I can't tell you how many times somebody has popped
off and then either like customer service or in the community,
and then when you meet them with compassion, then it
(15:21):
turns around.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
The real story comes out.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yes, And how many times people will say like, oh
my gosh, I'm so sorry this was happening, that was happening,
and you're you know, you're right, I didn't mean that,
And then I'd say that other place or the other value.
I forget the way you worded the question. Just principles
that you live by, like yeah, levity, humor, you know,
(15:46):
not taking things too seriously. Sometimes that rubs people the
wrong way because they think that you might be just
like blowing off a problem. But it's like, no, if
I took every problem super seriously and like got upset,
I would probably be dead right now, you know, like
sometimes I just have to laugh, right, And it can
(16:06):
also be a really great strategy for people that lead
communities and have you know, a presence and a brand
online that when people are people and sometimes you can
hit them with some humor and it just flips things around.
And then I think the next I would say is
(16:27):
self care, just really allowing myself the space and the
grace that I need to like be who I am
and not at least try the best I can to
not let things creep into my mind in the middle
of the night, and my personal life and my relationships
with my kids and my friends.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So and I think that's important. I think it's important
to know the things that keep you to know what
you're doing. And we don't always know how every day
is going to go. But if you have those few principles,
I guess you know that helped to guide you and
lead you. It helps you to especially in the times
(17:09):
where things get challenging and difficult. Right, it's kind of
like where you stand, who you are and where you stand,
and it's clear that there's something under there for you.
So you started SASH twelve years thirteen years ago, twelve
and a half, and so now you have grown to
(17:30):
this and as we said, this incredible movement and you've
built this company and it's growing, it'll continue to grow.
Was there anything in your past that prepared you to
be in this position professionally?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It depends on how you view that question, because there's
different things that you deal with, right, Like there's being
prepared from a mindset place, from a resilience place, from
being someone who's resilient in that sense, my whole life
prepared me for it, right, like like a parfessional, right yeah,
(18:16):
in terms of managing a multimillion dollar company, no, like,
no preparation for that. So it's you know, but then
I could have had a life where I was only
prepared for that, but I wasn't a resilient human, and
then I would have a different set of problems. Right,
(18:37):
So I think it's a combination of things. But you know,
especially when you're doing something that's unknown, Like if I
if I was going to open a subway franchise, I
would have a you know, big a binder telling me
like everything to expect and everything to do. So I
think even somebody who would feel prepared, you know, when
(19:00):
you're creating a product that's never been created, and you're
creating a market that's never been created, and you're doing
it in a way that isn't it's not what's taught
in marketing classes. I don't think there's any way to prepare.
So it is all about your mindset, your resilience, your
ability to pivot and think on your feet and what
(19:21):
you know, the difficult things just roll off you and
all of that.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, I think it is those things. I mean, I
think that that's kind of part of the secret sauce.
And I know that a lot of folks come to
you and want to hear how you did it, and
there are or how you're doing it. You know, there
are there are the twelve steps you know that you
can take. You know, you start a business entity, you
(19:48):
create a team, and all of that. But it's those
other things that caused you to reach into your toolkit
for strength determination. The other thing about you that is amazing,
and that is that you also model competence in yourself
(20:11):
and a trust in yourself. You know, you make a
decision and you go with that decision, and you you know,
you have that conversation with yourself and then you choose
to move forward. And I think that that's something that
a lot of people admire about you, and it's something
(20:31):
that a lot of people would like to have because
so often people listen to everyone else and put their
own opinion, their own thoughts, their own wisdom. Last, how
do you do that? Well?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I guess that's maybe one of the benefits of not
technically knowing what you're doing, right, is you just do
whatever you want to you like, you used to just
having a kind of guess right, and then over time
that guesswork becomes more connected, you know, to your intuition.
(21:18):
Trusting myself is an interesting relationship I've had that's gone
up and down over time. And there's and there's different
areas of my life, you know. I mean, you know this.
When it comes to like relationships and stuff, I you know,
need to work on it a little bit. But when
it comes to my business, I wouldn't say that. I
(21:41):
wouldn't say I have to work on it. I mean
another conversation, Okay, we'll leave that. What I do is
if I'm clear on what I'm trying to create, and
I'm clear on my goal, and I don't always know
the exact steps, I just I just guess and then
I check in with my intuition and see if it
(22:03):
feels right, and then I just do the thing. And
But I think the thing that allows me to trust
myself and to just kind of go for it is
also because I know that I'm a really good problem solver.
So if something doesn't go right, like I know I'm
going to be able to fix it. I know I'm
going to be able to pivot. So I think it's
about knowing yourself and knowing what you're good at what
you're not good at. And I know that I'm good
(22:23):
at certain things. I'm good at communication, I'm good at
problem solving, I'm good at being agile. So I think
that helps me trust myself. If I didn't know what
I was good at, and I didn't know what I
didn't know, then I might have a more difficult time.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, thank you for that, And I asked because that's
what a lot of people want to know. And one
of the things that I try to offer with my guests,
for those who are listening, is steps like steps you
can take or how, because there's a lot of talk about,
you know, become a successful this or or have a
(22:59):
great that, and there isn't a lot of conversation about
the how part of it. And I think what I
get out of this is for the audience is it
really is just as much about the softer skills of
problem solving, flexibility, confidence in yourself, confidence and trust in yourself,
(23:22):
good old fashioned hard work, and being willing to try
things and fail, being willing to experiment with different things A.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Big one too. Is in the coaching work that we do,
we call it the ability to be with Yes, So
being able to be with conflict, be with stress, be
with problems, not operate on top of them, but just
like be with them. And your capacity to be with
things that are difficult grows and grows over time. So
(23:55):
it's almost like working a muscle, like your ability to
have things thrown at you and just continue to put
one foot in front of the other. And if you're
trying to look so many steps ahead, it's going to
feel impossible. But each step along the way, we'll expand
your capacity.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Absolutely, I agree. Getting back to the relationship thing, not
to go too deep into it just because we said it.
We opened the loops, we have to close it. Just
somebody out there is hanging waiting for an answer, So
not to go deep into it. But I do think
that the solution to one is really the solution for all.
(24:35):
I mean I think that sometimes we if you're willing
to go through this conversation with me for just two minutes,
I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact that
we just want one of whatever it is, one great business,
one great romantic relationship, one of whatever it is. And
(24:58):
I think that in romantic relationships, because it actually involves another,
we can forget that The goal really is to have one,
to find that one your person, and it takes time,
(25:18):
It takes time, it takes patience, and it takes being
very clear about what you don't want in your life.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I just had an epiphany that I think for me
the difference and this is something that I learned in
between my first business and my current business. So I
had another business before this that was not successful, and
it was a business where it was a similar type
of product, different design, but it was the same category,
(25:53):
the same industry as a handbag.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I believed so much in that product, and my belief
was greater than the evidence that this was something that
was going to work. Right. So when I started the
next business, I approached it completely differently and everything I
did was different, and we can talk about that if
(26:18):
you want to talk about it. But I took more
baby steps. I didn't rely on my passion. I didn't
It didn't matter how passionate I was about it. If
other people weren't willing to part with their money, it's
not a business. And it doesn't matter how many people
(26:40):
tell you that they love it, or people who love
you buy it.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So I got so hyped up in my first business
with the fact that people loved what I was doing,
and I was I had a dangerous set of skills. Right.
I could make something look good. I knew how to
make products. Have a background and product development of back
and graphic design, have a background in marketing communications. I've
worked in consumer product goods for twenty two years. Right,
(27:07):
so I can make something look great, and I can
talk about it in a way that gets people excited
and gets feedback and all of that. But at the
end of the day, if strangers who don't know you
and don't love you aren't giving you their money, you
gotta stop what you're doing, right. And it took me
so long to learn that lesson. So with Sash, I
(27:28):
started out, you know, much slower. It was like, let
me make five of these, Let me make then twenty
of them. Let me go to another city where nobody
knows me and set up a booth and see if
I can sell these. Okay, yes I can't. All right, cool,
now we're talking, right. So the foundation of it was
so different. And when I think about relationships, I think
(27:49):
there's a belief and there's a vision, and what for
me could get in the way is the lack of evidence, right,
or the lack of like surety because so and I'm
saying this because you were saying, like the solution to
one is the solution to the other. I think what
(28:09):
allows me to feel so confident with my business is
that I can see it, right. I have receipts, I
have yeah, orders coming in, customer feedback. I have all that.
And with an interpersonal relationship, it is more based on
like feeling and gut and connection and trust and like
a lack of evidence until there is evidence, till there
(28:31):
is the evidence, you know, and then you're like oh shit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Or you're like this wasn't the person forever. But there's
like something in all of it, whether it lasts forever
or not. I mean, I'm not convinced that a year
long relationship is any less valuable in our lives than
the relationship that spans twenty years. Yeah, completely, you know,
(28:59):
because of what you act actually what you can get
out of that relationship and what you're able to learn.
I know some really I know of relationships, romantic relationships
where you know, maybe they've lasted ten, fifteen, twenty years,
but they stopped at a certain point and they're you know,
(29:21):
so again, I don't think that there's that being in
a relationship or not being in one is any indicator
of success. I think the real indicator is the success
within the relationship. And so, you know, I've been in
relationships where they didn't last a really long time. I've
(29:43):
been in relationships that did and didn't, And I really
measure the success on how I'm showing up in the
relationship and how I'm able to bring the relationship to
completion in a way that is responsible and accountable for
my well being and the well being of the other person.
(30:04):
And I don't think that's less beautiful or powerful then.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You know, yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, because I have some relationships well yeah, we could
have stayed together, but come on, now, no lessons were done,
the graduation happened, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I don't think longevity is like a mark of success
in a relationship. I think it's you know, transformation, Yeah,
growth and absolutely, Yeah, there's so many things that you
can get out of it.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, that's said, I'm ready for my person.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You can say it.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You can say it so I wanted to go back
for a second two what you mentioned about wanting to
get the proof from strangers.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And I think that's so.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Important for people who are starting at a business or
who may be struggling in their business, because again, going
to the people that love you and care for you
and admire you, those folks are not the ones that
are going to grow your business to something that's self sustaining.
(31:17):
It's just not going to happen. And very often people
take their business idea and they put it in front
of their friend community. And when you do that, you
are kind of turning your back to the hundreds of
thousands or thousands or hundreds of people who are strangers
(31:38):
who have an interest in the thing, the product that
you're selling or the service you're offering.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I think you need to go to strangers first. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I was just going to say, I love you leaving
going to a completely different environment where you and your
bag or a stranger, you know, and just kind of
like setting up shop. Okay, guys, this is what I have.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, And that's literally what I did for the first
two and a half years that I round this company
is I had a ten by ten foot tent, and
I was at the La County Fair, Sandio County Fair,
State Fair, Farmers' markets. I went to this thing called
the Flower Festival in South Carolina. I did events in Vegas,
(32:20):
like I went at Atlanta, like all over setting up
musting content and sell them backs to one person at
a time. But that was the most valuable thing I
could have done for multiple reasons. Number one, it was lucrative,
like you make money that way, so you're not wasting
(32:42):
time trying to do like market research and you know,
you know, group focus groups and whatever, like just get
out there and talk to people and they either buy
it or they don't. If they don't, then you need
you need to pivot. And that's that's a whole other topic.
But and then number two, it gave me everything I
need to know about my SASH customer, who now you know,
(33:06):
the Sash community are known as Sash sisters. So yes,
now like my like a SASH sister, I can see
a sashistor a mile away, I know you know what
phase of life she's in. I know what question she's
going to ask before she asks them, I know what
she's going to buy first, second, third, Learning all of
that would have been I'm not going to say impossible,
(33:26):
but it definitely would have taken a lot more time
and money and focus away from actually just growing the business,
so that by the time I was able to launch
online and do the online community and all of that,
I already knew exactly what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
It's getting into it, it's putting your heart into it.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, And I think it again bypasses a lot because
I think people, you know, every launch you have and
every business, every product or whatever, is going to have obstacles.
And I think one of the hardest things for people
to figure out is is this obstacle telling me that
I need to do something different or is this just
(34:06):
a natural part of growth and a challenge that I
need to overcome.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
And how do you know? And I know it changes
and you know, but based on what you've encountered and experienced,
how would a person know.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
This is how I actually arrived at this, you know,
twelve years or fourteen, thirteen years ago before I started
the company, is because I had just gotten off of
this experience of my failed business, where I saw every
obstacle or every challenge or every you know, overdraft notice
(34:49):
in my bank account, is like I need to keep
going right, like I just need to persevere. Don't give up, right,
this is what you hear. You hear, don't give up,
you hear fake it till you make it, like keep
going right. And so that I was like, yes, I'm
not going to give up. I believe. I believe in
this idea, like I'm gonna keep going now. And then
(35:14):
I was like literally CouchSurfing with my child at the
end of that. So and then when I was starting
the second business, this current business, and I was on
my way to Vegas, this is this is a true story,
I obviously, because why would I told him it wasn't true. Okay,
So it just okay, whatever, Okay. So I'm in my
(35:35):
little tiny car and I've got Kiva in the back seat.
She was she was what at the time, she was
a year old, so Keipa was a year old. She's
in the back seat. Noah's in the front seat. He
was six seven at the time. Okay, And I've got
the rest of my car is packed. It was a
Honda fit and I have everything for my booth. I
(35:55):
was going to a trade show in this car, driving
in Vegas, and this is the first time that I'm
going to be selling my product to strangers. Right. I
come over the mountain, the hill where you can see
Vegas in the distance, and I'm like, all right, here
we go. Am I crazy? I don't know? Here we go?
And the next thing I know, Kiva projectile vomits all
(36:17):
over the car and all over everything. And it was
one of those moments, right, It was one of those
moments where I was like, maybe I shouldn't be doing this.
This is this is the universe literally barfing all over
my idea and my ambition, and I need to turn
this car around. I'm crazy. And that's what happens, right,
(36:38):
like like the big things will happen to like try
and stop us. And then so that's where you go
like should I is that? Do I listen to that?
Or is that just a challenge I need to overcome
right right? Right, because this happens in relationships too, right,
Like something will happen and you're like, oh, no, is
that a deal breaker? Do I break up with this person?
Or do we work? This is a sign?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Right, tell me more?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And then you get more and it's like but tell
me more. I was thinking about this morning in you know,
my most famous relationship blow up where there were so
many things that I overlooked, and I remember joking about
how I was going to write a book called God
give Me Four Signs because three one one is not enough,
(37:24):
two is not enough, three is not enough. I'm just
gonna be going maybe the fourth one. I'm like, oh
wait a second, but yeah, so that, but I kept going.
I just was like, no, I've I've put too much
into this. I'm gonna I'm gonna wait and not let
those types of things stop me, like the signs, and
(37:47):
I'm going to look for the evidence. So I get
to this trade show. I set up my booth and
this was my first time selling it in public. These
were handmade samples that I made in my backyard with
one of my friends, one of my neighbors, and I
wrote twenty thousand dollars in orders got begunned so that
I'm like, okay, the barf was just to keep me going.
(38:10):
The twenty thousand dollars is evidence that I need to
do this business.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And also to keep you going. Yeah, you know, I
was talking to Xavier last night, my grandson, and we
(38:35):
were talking about making a decision that maybe you're not
sure it was a decision he made, and he said
that he wasn't sure that it was the right decision,
and it was after the fact, and so I asked
(38:58):
him if he really believed that it wasn't the right decision,
and he said it wasn't sure, and I said, okay, well,
I'll leave you to figure that out. But in the meantime,
sometimes in life, we are so accountable, so responsible, that
we believe that once we make a decision, that that's
(39:21):
the decision that we have to take and continue to
go with, even if we know that it's wrong after
we've made it. And I think that the world tries
to convince us that, well, you made up your mind,
you did this, and now take this all the way
to the death of it. And so I asked him, like,
let's say that in twenty five thousand years you are
(39:44):
getting ready to get married, and imagine that it was
the day before you were getting ready to actually walk
down the aisle with this person. You know, the wedding's
been planned. People have, you know, put money into you
getting married, including you. You know, you have guests on
(40:05):
both sides of the family. And imagine if you knew
in your heart of hearts that this was not the
right decision for you, what would you do? And he
said I would I had given my word, I would
probably go forward. And I to which I said, no,
wrong answer, absolutely not, absolutely not, because when we move
(40:33):
forward past the point that we know in our gut
is the right place to go, sometimes we do it
because there are so many external things tied into it,
but ultimately staying that course is going to create more
damage than if you had stopped right then and there.
(40:54):
And so he said, well, how do you know? And
I said, well, it comes with giving yourself the same
grace that you would give to a friend who may
give you crappy ass advice one week and great advice
the following week, but you build trust with that person
so that even if the advice isn't great, you can
kind of tweak it. And you have to do the
(41:15):
same thing with yourself and know that what you believe
in and what you're able to put your heart into,
you can actually you should go ahead and move forward
with that thing. So I'm thinking about that with Kiva Barfing,
where it's like, does this mean you know that I
(41:35):
should stop this thing because I now have throw up
all over my backs. Or is it just, you know,
just something that happened and you chose to lean into
the road that you were on and the thing that
you were looking to accomplish, and it works. I don't
think there's an easy answer. It's not black and white,
(41:58):
but I think it's it's art. It's the art of
learning yourself. It's the art of trusting who you are
on the planet and trusting your gut.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, and sorry, I was like taking a couple of
notes while you were writing because or while you were talking,
because I don't want to forget to kind of riff
off what you were saying that when it comes to
decision making, I love the conversation you had with Savior
at the age that he's at because he yeah, that's
(42:30):
going to be a theme, right. And I think that
the key for me is empowering making decisions and empowering
them yes and not needing to know if it was
the correct or incorrect, Because if you empower the decision,
you don't waffle in this like, ooh is it the
(42:50):
right one? I don't know? Then you will learn faster
The impact right, And there's positive and negative consequences to
every decision that you make, and you can try and
anticipate them, but you're not going to know them until
you actually empower that choice and like move forward with
a thing and then be willing to make another decision right.
(43:11):
And so that's part of it, is like empowering your
decisions and then allowing yourself to continue making them, like
as soon as the impact is felt, as soon as
the circumstances present themselves, then you can decide, oh, I'm
going to keep doing this or I'm going to do
something else. And then the other part of it, which
I think is the harder part, is not letting other
(43:32):
people's ideas about your decision making stop you from making
the decisions that you want to make.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Thank you, or keep you stuck in that where you
feel like, well, they all told me not to do it,
and I'm doing it anyway, and trying to move forward
in a positive way with the weight of that, because
then you're putting yourself in a situation of literally trying
(44:01):
to move forward with a heavy ass bag, you know,
to move and and like own the decision. You have
to own the decision and own all parts of the decision.
It doesn't mean that you don't consider other people, obviously.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
But we're considerate people so exactly. If anything, you know,
we probably could practice only considering ourselves and we still
would consider other people.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
More exactly exactly. And I just think that's such a
lesson for especially for all people, not not younger people. Everyone,
you know, trust, learn to trust in yourself. You know,
there's so many people giving so many opinions, and quite frankly,
the folks who actually are doing what you're doing, those
(44:53):
are the folks that aren't going to be so quick
to give you there to impose their opinion because they
know the game you're playing. They know the game that
you're playing and what it takes to actually get there.
So the last time we spoke was I don't know,
we don't know when, right, it was a little bit after.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
During the pandemic at some point or five years ago
almost for I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
So this is a big question, and just to kind
of bring this full circle, what are the couple of
things or one whatever comes to you that you've learned
over the last few years personally, professionally, as a parent.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
One of the things that I've learned, and we kind
of touched on it a little bit, is how much
there are themes in my life and if I look
at my patterns that I'm familiar with in myself because
(46:04):
of my entire upbringing and things that I know that
I do, that they're also showing up in my business
and it's not always obvious to me because it's so
it's it's my own pattern and I don't always see
how it's playing out with like you know, partnerships or
(46:26):
vendors or other problems in the business. And so getting
allowing other people to get more involved in my day
to day so they can reflect those things to me,
and trusting them when they when they reflect it to me.
Has That's been a huge one, I would say. Another
(46:46):
one is I've relearned how important my community is because
when you and I met on the last podcast, it was,
you know, during the pandemic, and that I didn't know
yet at that time how important that community was going
to be to get me through that time. And when
(47:11):
when I talk to people now, because you know, to
your point, people do reach out to me a lot,
and they want to know, they want it, they have
an idea and they want to bring it to life,
or they're in a certain place for their business and
they want to grow it. The number one thing I
tell people to do is build a community. Build a
community around what you're doing. If you're having a hard
time building a community, then that tells you something too
write like maybe maybe the message, maybe the product, or
(47:34):
the goal or the idea isn't resonating with people, and
that's okay. You just have to figure out what will
or maybe it's not clear exactly. Yeah, So there's so
much that you can get, you know, for yourself, for
your business, you know, by building that community. And what
else have I learned? I have learned how flip and
(47:54):
resilient I am. Like I said, I something I already knew.
But you know, every every challenge is an opportunity to
reaquaint yourself with your own badassory.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, And you step up to the plate
on that one.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
You're like, you're coming.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
It's okay, I got something for this. Like there, you
are one of the most resilient people that I know.
And I'm saying that not and I know resilience and
strength are very similar, but I'm choosing resilience because to me,
(48:36):
resilience is being able to work through problems when they
come your way, and being able to stand in the
face of challenging times. And I think there's that extra
nuance and that that kind of secret sauce that you
possess and that you embody, which is not a lot
(48:57):
like you have the ability to be with the circumstances
that confront you or that you confront in your life,
and you do it in a way that keeps you
true to the core that is nicole like you don't
(49:20):
you you you stay nicole, You stay authentic, you stay present,
you stay vulnerable, curious, And I believe from the outside
looking in that that is what helps you to be
even more resilient, because you're clear, and when you're clear,
(49:42):
you can you're not so ameshed in the story around
it and the drama around it and the emotion of it.
Not that obviously you know you you're emotional and you
have emotions, but you seem very clear about who you
are and how you're going to show up on this
planet no matter what comes your way. And I think
(50:03):
that that is something that is such an inspiration to
those of us who know you and love you and
walk this path with you, and it's also a beautiful,
beautiful model for your children and the other children that
you know who are within your orbit. It's just really
(50:24):
a beautiful thing to watch it, truly is. I'm so
humbled and feel so honored to be your friend and
to be a sister friend, you know, because we've been
through a lot of shit together, lots and lots of
shit together. I do want to ask before we close,
(50:47):
how can we support you?
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Just being present is the support, the greatest support people
can offer, you know, like showing for the things that
people are putting out. If you are someone who is
having a regular handbag drama, come join the SASH community
(51:14):
and just being part of the community will lend its
support not just to me into the company, but to
so many women. And if you aren't, you know, there's
so many ways to connect. I think connect connection is support.
So connect connect with me. I just launched my sub
stack on Monday. I'm on social media. Yeah, just connecting
(51:37):
is I think the best way to support each other.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Nicole, Thank you, Thank you so much. I adore you.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
I adore you.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
I know that I actually know that one of the.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Things I love about us is like we see each
other all the time, and yet every single time we
see each other, we're like, hey, there you are.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
You know, And I'll just say just end with this.
Curate for yourself a community of friendship and people in
your life who help you to see who you are
and who love you in spite of yourself or in
(52:24):
spite of some of your behaviors at times. Find people
on this there they exist, they exist, And I think
having people in your life who can give you support,
encouragement and also call you out, you know when when
(52:44):
when the need arises, is one of the most important
things that we can do for ourselves and for each other.
Be an amazing friend and find amazing friends and community,
because that that's what we need. You know, no matter
what's happening in the world. You know, some years are
(53:04):
better than others. But over the long call, the long
game is community and connection and human beings. And so
I encourage you to to, if you're listening, make sure
that you're in community in real life, in real life community,
well said, yeah, thank you, thank you. That was an
(53:35):
amazing conversation with my incredible friend Nicole MacDonald. What I
really enjoyed about that conversation is the fact that she
was able to share so many gems about her own
journey from someone who had a business that didn't work
out where she was literally couch surfing with one of
(53:55):
her children, to building a multi multimillion dollar business. It
is an incredible story and model for those who are
seeking to do the same. What I loved most about
the conversation was her mention of the fact that you
need to stop when you know it's time to stop,
and I think that that is a wise and sage
(54:18):
advice for many many areas of life. Thank you so
much for listening to this podcast. It means so much.
I encourage you to share this episode if you think
that it will help someone you know, and continue listening.
I appreciate you. Love and peace until next time. This
is Lusan Boskia on the Shaping Freedom podcast.
The key is making decisions and empowering them and not
needing to know if it was the correct or incorrect.
There's positive and negative consequences to every decision that you make,
and you can try and anticipate them, but you're not
going to know them until you actually empower that choice
and move forward with a thing and then be willing
to make another decision. The harder part is not letting
(00:31):
other people's ideas about your decision making stop you from
making the decisions that you want to make.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Shaping Freedom podcast, where we dive into
conversations that inspire personal growth, transformation and clarity and challenging times.
I'm your host, Lissan Basquiat. Today's guest is a woman
who has done something truly rare. She's built a product
that became a brand, a brand that became a movement,
(01:00):
and a movement that became a community. Nicole MacDonald is
the visionary, founder and CEO of The sash Bag. The
sash Bag is a cross body design that solved a
real life problem and gained a global cult following. It
wasn't just about convenience or style, it was about freedom.
Nicole's creation became a symbol for women who were ready
(01:23):
to ditch the baggage literally and metaphorically and carry their
lives with more ease and confidence. But what makes Nicole
truly extraordinary is what she's done beyond the bag. On
top of the work that she's done with the bag.
She's one of the most respected and beloved entrepreneurial leaders
in the San Diego community. Through her years of hands
(01:47):
on leadership with NOBO San Diego, including serving as chapter president,
her connection to San Diego's entrepreneurial leaders looking for support
and mentorship, she serves She's lifted others while also climbing.
She fosters collaboration and championing women owned businesses and has
(02:11):
been doing that long before it became a trending topic.
Nicole's not just a businesswoman. She's a community architect. She's bold,
a heart led trailblazer, and she shows up fully and
completely even in the messy middle of life and business.
And she always shows up with authenticity, wit, and with
(02:33):
an open heart. She's held space for others, advocated for
policy change, she builds teams, she's rallied backers and turned
roadblocks into stories of triumph, and along the way, She's
curated a loyal and loving tribe who don't just buy
what she makes, they believe in who Nicole is. She's
(02:55):
a proud mother, a fierce friend, and a personal source
of inspiration for me. It's an honor to welcome my
dear friend and Powerhouse sister Nicole McDonald to the show. Nicole, welcome.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Oh my gosh, I didn't know I was going to
cry in the first five seconds.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
This is you, but this is you. I you know,
I felt nervous, and I I don't really feel nervous.
I usually feel excited about interviews, and for some reason
I was twirling around a bit.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I felt the same thing, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And I was like, wow, well, I don't know what
are we going to talk about? What what are we
going to talk about? Which is hilarious because you and
I talk all day every day, all day every day,
and so anyway, I I'm really excited that you've agreed
to come back on the show. I want to share
(04:06):
some of your incredible magic and resilience and power and
mentorship with the Shaping Freedom audience. And I guess let's
just kind of dive into it. How are you? What's
going on? What are the problems and solve them of.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
The world of the world, the world of the world.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I guess we could start with this. You know,
you have created this incredible movement, and again I think
it's so beyond a brand. And this conversation isn't just
from the perspective of you being an entrepreneur and founding
the sash bag. But you've created this movement, a national
(04:55):
movement amongst women and people who were this bag. What
has that kind of leadership meant to you? And was
that your intention?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Well, I'll start with was that my intention? And no,
not initially. So everything that has happened with this community
movement was it happened naturally. It happened organically. I didn't
expect it. I didn't know what to do with it.
It wasn't a strategy. It really came from the product itself.
(05:33):
Is something that changes people. And I hear this over
and over and the reason is because it like literally
changes your physiology a little bit. When you stop carrying
a purse that's like kind of even a little bit
like making you off center. And then there's also the
mental capacity of like not having to worry about this
(05:53):
thing that you're carrying around and so it shifts you
in multiple ways. And what I noticed is that people
were so impacted by that shift that they were wanting
to talk about it, like, oh my gosh. And it
seems like a small thing, like oh, a handbag of purse,
but when you think about it, like for centuries, there
has not been any innovation in the way that women
carry things, and so it just did something to people
(06:18):
where they wanted to connect. And so that was happening
so naturally that I thought, Okay, well, I need to
create a container for that. So people aren't, you know,
reaching out to me, and they were trying to connect
on our Facebook page and commenting on each other's things,
and I'm like, all right, let me let me organize
this a little bit because I think there's something to it.
(06:40):
So that's that's really how it began. And then what
it has meant to me is this is going to
sound like an exaggeration, but everything because everything that the
company has been through, and we have been through a lot,
the only reason I've been able to get through it
is because of the community. Because these women are like,
(07:02):
We're not going to let the pandemic ruin your company.
We're not going to let a manufacturing conflict ruin your company.
Like we're here and you know this is about all
of us. It's not actually about the purse. So that's
how it has turned from just this idea for connecting
into literally the thing that makes my business work.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I think that it's I think the carrying the
bag is such a metaphor for the experience that so
many women have, right where things are one sided and
we feel burdened and we're trying to find a way
to fill the other side and balance things out in
some way.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And also like doing kind of silly things just from
a place of automaticity. Right, it's like so auto actually, oh,
we just throw that in my purse, Like let me
just throw it in there and deal with it later.
And the next thing, I know, like all that adds
up into something that's like, oh now I need to
like dump my whole purse out. Right. That's what we
do with our life to it's like letting the things
(08:01):
go to do and.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Then all of a sudden, it's like that exactly what
I love about the the the just the way the
sash bag is designed is that it actually is designed
to accommodate our ever expanding.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Capacity, you know. And so it's like you start off
and it's very easy, and it's very slender in design intentionally,
I'm sure. And then like you do have the ability
to put more into it, but it also and it
also reminds you to pay attention to that.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, you have to be careful about what you put
in it.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, because after a while you get to the point
where it's like, Okay, it's still looking really beautiful, but
it's all bunk bulky, like what do I need to
pull out of this bag that that that's just not
needed there? So what has so you've built this incredible
following of people who really use this platform and community
(09:02):
to talk about all kinds of things that are happening
in their lives. And what has it meant to you
to lead that, to lead that conversation? Because I think
the one thing and I mentioned it in the introduction,
the one thing that's so unique about you, Nicole, is
(09:22):
that you put it all on the table. You are raw,
You're authentic. I can tell you the things that that
that I see that you model. You model what life
looks like when you truly want to be baggage free.
I mean you you're vulnerable, you share your wins, you
(09:45):
share the losses, you share all of it, the entire journey.
What has that been like for you to model that
for so many people?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It it's been a while of things. I'll start with sharing.
The feedback that I get, Like, what it's been for
me is knowing what it's doing for other people. So
I often get people reaching out to me after every
time everything I share, everything I share, somebody or multiple
(10:18):
people will reach out to me and thank me for
it because I said something that they wanted to say,
or that they wish people would say, or I had
them feel seen, you know, because there's things that we
will say out loud in this community that a lot
of people only think. And the other thing is that
I've created a lot of safety in this group because
(10:39):
I do monitor it very closely and make sure that
the conversations are staying positive and elevated. Like we don't
need to talk about everything, right, we want to talk
about things that are real and true and vulnerable, but
we also like are zero tolerance for negativity, for hate,
(11:01):
for name calling, for anything like that. So it's like
this balance of being open and sharing, but also like
being a stand for it being a positive experience and
if you have something shitty to say about something vulnerable,
I'm sharing, get out right. And so then that allows
(11:21):
everyone else to know like, oh, this is a safe
space for me to share and for me to connect. Yeah,
I'd love.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That, because it's like, if you're in the community, someone
will say something and not something will maybe come on
and make a comment that is really unnecessary and kind
of you know, nasty, and it's almost like before you
could get in there, the community is like, no, leave
her alone. She said that this is going to happen,
(11:51):
or she already shared that. So it's really just as
someone who aspires to build community or who is in
the process of building community, you're such a role model
again an inspiration for how to do it and how
to do it with love and with heart and and
(12:14):
welcoming heart. You know, there's no one that goes through
your community in real life, online, in your meta group,
in your SASH community. There's no one who experiences you
who doesn't get the joy of feeling one hundred percent seen,
(12:39):
appreciated and respected and that and that is rare and
I'm hoping can be more normalized.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I was just going to say that I wish it
wasn't so rare, and I think that's why it's so
I don't want use the word addicting, but it's like
and so i'viting for people right, like because yeah, there
aren't a lot of places where people feel really safe
to be themselves and like someone is going to protect
you if someone comes after you or yeah to like
(13:12):
you know, have those boundaries in place. The Internet is
like the wild wild West almost everywhere else you go.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So literally literally, So how do you do that? How
do you do that? Like what are if you were
to think about like the three to five principles that
Nicole McDonald lives by, what would they be?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well? I think the first one is responsibility. So I
always try to communicate from a place of responsibility so
that I'm not leaving a lot of room for people
to say something to me that I don't already know,
Like yeah, yeah, I already know that, Like I already
said that, you know, you don't have to say it again.
(13:56):
So there's that, And then there's compassion. So I always
try to imagine how someone else is feeling, and I
do that in my communication, but also when I'm moderating
my community, and I can't tell you how many times
this has happened. So this happens in the community, it
(14:16):
helps happens with customer service, and just a little aside.
I train my customer service staff to treat people the
way you would treat a friend, and I mean that genuinely,
and compassion is such a huge part of it, because
if you can understand that, like people are people, people
are people in all over the place. You know, they're
(14:37):
coming into the community, they're coming into our inbox, and they're
people in So most of the time when they lash out,
when they when you tell them something from a place
of your heart and they take it in some other
way and they get angry, if you can just even
if you don't, you don't have to know what they're
going through, but you just like assume, like, Okay, there's
something else that's underneath this that actually has nothing to
(14:59):
do with me. Like I've our taking responsibility for what
I need to right, so that's already established, so I
know that this has nothing to actually do with me.
So what if I just connect with this person and
I can't tell you how many times somebody has popped
off and then either like customer service or in the community,
and then when you meet them with compassion, then it
(15:21):
turns around.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
The real story comes out.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yes, And how many times people will say like, oh
my gosh, I'm so sorry this was happening, that was happening,
and you're you know, you're right, I didn't mean that,
And then I'd say that other place or the other value.
I forget the way you worded the question. Just principles
that you live by, like yeah, levity, humor, you know,
(15:46):
not taking things too seriously. Sometimes that rubs people the
wrong way because they think that you might be just
like blowing off a problem. But it's like, no, if
I took every problem super seriously and like got upset,
I would probably be dead right now, you know, like
sometimes I just have to laugh, right, And it can
(16:06):
also be a really great strategy for people that lead
communities and have you know, a presence and a brand
online that when people are people and sometimes you can
hit them with some humor and it just flips things around.
And then I think the next I would say is
(16:27):
self care, just really allowing myself the space and the
grace that I need to like be who I am
and not at least try the best I can to
not let things creep into my mind in the middle
of the night, and my personal life and my relationships
with my kids and my friends.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So and I think that's important. I think it's important
to know the things that keep you to know what
you're doing. And we don't always know how every day
is going to go. But if you have those few principles,
I guess you know that helped to guide you and
lead you. It helps you to especially in the times
(17:09):
where things get challenging and difficult. Right, it's kind of
like where you stand, who you are and where you stand,
and it's clear that there's something under there for you.
So you started SASH twelve years thirteen years ago, twelve
and a half, and so now you have grown to
(17:30):
this and as we said, this incredible movement and you've
built this company and it's growing, it'll continue to grow.
Was there anything in your past that prepared you to
be in this position professionally?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It depends on how you view that question, because there's
different things that you deal with, right, Like there's being
prepared from a mindset place, from a resilience place, from
being someone who's resilient in that sense, my whole life
prepared me for it, right, like like a parfessional, right yeah,
(18:16):
in terms of managing a multimillion dollar company, no, like,
no preparation for that. So it's you know, but then
I could have had a life where I was only
prepared for that, but I wasn't a resilient human, and
then I would have a different set of problems. Right,
(18:37):
So I think it's a combination of things. But you know,
especially when you're doing something that's unknown, Like if I
if I was going to open a subway franchise, I
would have a you know, big a binder telling me
like everything to expect and everything to do. So I
think even somebody who would feel prepared, you know, when
(19:00):
you're creating a product that's never been created, and you're
creating a market that's never been created, and you're doing
it in a way that isn't it's not what's taught
in marketing classes. I don't think there's any way to prepare.
So it is all about your mindset, your resilience, your
ability to pivot and think on your feet and what
(19:21):
you know, the difficult things just roll off you and
all of that.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, I think it is those things. I mean, I
think that that's kind of part of the secret sauce.
And I know that a lot of folks come to
you and want to hear how you did it, and
there are or how you're doing it. You know, there
are there are the twelve steps you know that you
can take. You know, you start a business entity, you
(19:48):
create a team, and all of that. But it's those
other things that caused you to reach into your toolkit
for strength determination. The other thing about you that is amazing,
and that is that you also model competence in yourself
(20:11):
and a trust in yourself. You know, you make a
decision and you go with that decision, and you you know,
you have that conversation with yourself and then you choose
to move forward. And I think that that's something that
a lot of people admire about you, and it's something
(20:31):
that a lot of people would like to have because
so often people listen to everyone else and put their
own opinion, their own thoughts, their own wisdom. Last, how
do you do that? Well?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I guess that's maybe one of the benefits of not
technically knowing what you're doing, right, is you just do
whatever you want to you like, you used to just
having a kind of guess right, and then over time
that guesswork becomes more connected, you know, to your intuition.
(21:18):
Trusting myself is an interesting relationship I've had that's gone
up and down over time. And there's and there's different
areas of my life, you know. I mean, you know this.
When it comes to like relationships and stuff, I you know,
need to work on it a little bit. But when
it comes to my business, I wouldn't say that. I
(21:41):
wouldn't say I have to work on it. I mean
another conversation, Okay, we'll leave that. What I do is
if I'm clear on what I'm trying to create, and
I'm clear on my goal, and I don't always know
the exact steps, I just I just guess and then
I check in with my intuition and see if it
(22:03):
feels right, and then I just do the thing. And
But I think the thing that allows me to trust
myself and to just kind of go for it is
also because I know that I'm a really good problem solver.
So if something doesn't go right, like I know I'm
going to be able to fix it. I know I'm
going to be able to pivot. So I think it's
about knowing yourself and knowing what you're good at what
you're not good at. And I know that I'm good
(22:23):
at certain things. I'm good at communication, I'm good at
problem solving, I'm good at being agile. So I think
that helps me trust myself. If I didn't know what
I was good at, and I didn't know what I
didn't know, then I might have a more difficult time.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, thank you for that, And I asked because that's
what a lot of people want to know. And one
of the things that I try to offer with my guests,
for those who are listening, is steps like steps you
can take or how, because there's a lot of talk about,
you know, become a successful this or or have a
(22:59):
great that, and there isn't a lot of conversation about
the how part of it. And I think what I
get out of this is for the audience is it
really is just as much about the softer skills of
problem solving, flexibility, confidence in yourself, confidence and trust in yourself,
(23:22):
good old fashioned hard work, and being willing to try
things and fail, being willing to experiment with different things A.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Big one too. Is in the coaching work that we do,
we call it the ability to be with Yes, So
being able to be with conflict, be with stress, be
with problems, not operate on top of them, but just
like be with them. And your capacity to be with
things that are difficult grows and grows over time. So
(23:55):
it's almost like working a muscle, like your ability to
have things thrown at you and just continue to put
one foot in front of the other. And if you're
trying to look so many steps ahead, it's going to
feel impossible. But each step along the way, we'll expand
your capacity.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Absolutely, I agree. Getting back to the relationship thing, not
to go too deep into it just because we said it.
We opened the loops, we have to close it. Just
somebody out there is hanging waiting for an answer, So
not to go deep into it. But I do think
that the solution to one is really the solution for all.
(24:35):
I mean I think that sometimes we if you're willing
to go through this conversation with me for just two minutes,
I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact that
we just want one of whatever it is, one great business,
one great romantic relationship, one of whatever it is. And
(24:58):
I think that in romantic relationships, because it actually involves another,
we can forget that The goal really is to have one,
to find that one your person, and it takes time,
(25:18):
It takes time, it takes patience, and it takes being
very clear about what you don't want in your life.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I just had an epiphany that I think for me
the difference and this is something that I learned in
between my first business and my current business. So I
had another business before this that was not successful, and
it was a business where it was a similar type
of product, different design, but it was the same category,
(25:53):
the same industry as a handbag.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I believed so much in that product, and my belief
was greater than the evidence that this was something that
was going to work. Right. So when I started the
next business, I approached it completely differently and everything I
did was different, and we can talk about that if
(26:18):
you want to talk about it. But I took more
baby steps. I didn't rely on my passion. I didn't
It didn't matter how passionate I was about it. If
other people weren't willing to part with their money, it's
not a business. And it doesn't matter how many people
(26:40):
tell you that they love it, or people who love
you buy it.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So I got so hyped up in my first business
with the fact that people loved what I was doing,
and I was I had a dangerous set of skills. Right.
I could make something look good. I knew how to
make products. Have a background and product development of back
and graphic design, have a background in marketing communications. I've
worked in consumer product goods for twenty two years. Right,
(27:07):
so I can make something look great, and I can
talk about it in a way that gets people excited
and gets feedback and all of that. But at the
end of the day, if strangers who don't know you
and don't love you aren't giving you their money, you
gotta stop what you're doing, right. And it took me
so long to learn that lesson. So with Sash, I
(27:28):
started out, you know, much slower. It was like, let
me make five of these, Let me make then twenty
of them. Let me go to another city where nobody
knows me and set up a booth and see if
I can sell these. Okay, yes I can't. All right, cool,
now we're talking, right. So the foundation of it was
so different. And when I think about relationships, I think
(27:49):
there's a belief and there's a vision, and what for
me could get in the way is the lack of evidence, right,
or the lack of like surety because so and I'm
saying this because you were saying, like the solution to
one is the solution to the other. I think what
(28:09):
allows me to feel so confident with my business is
that I can see it, right. I have receipts, I
have yeah, orders coming in, customer feedback. I have all that.
And with an interpersonal relationship, it is more based on
like feeling and gut and connection and trust and like
a lack of evidence until there is evidence, till there
(28:31):
is the evidence, you know, and then you're like oh shit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Or you're like this wasn't the person forever. But there's
like something in all of it, whether it lasts forever
or not. I mean, I'm not convinced that a year
long relationship is any less valuable in our lives than
the relationship that spans twenty years. Yeah, completely, you know,
(28:59):
because of what you act actually what you can get
out of that relationship and what you're able to learn.
I know some really I know of relationships, romantic relationships
where you know, maybe they've lasted ten, fifteen, twenty years,
but they stopped at a certain point and they're you know,
(29:21):
so again, I don't think that there's that being in
a relationship or not being in one is any indicator
of success. I think the real indicator is the success
within the relationship. And so, you know, I've been in
relationships where they didn't last a really long time. I've
(29:43):
been in relationships that did and didn't, And I really
measure the success on how I'm showing up in the
relationship and how I'm able to bring the relationship to
completion in a way that is responsible and accountable for
my well being and the well being of the other person.
(30:04):
And I don't think that's less beautiful or powerful then.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You know, yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, because I have some relationships well yeah, we could
have stayed together, but come on, now, no lessons were done,
the graduation happened, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I don't think longevity is like a mark of success
in a relationship. I think it's you know, transformation, Yeah,
growth and absolutely, Yeah, there's so many things that you
can get out of it.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, that's said, I'm ready for my person.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You can say it.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You can say it so I wanted to go back
for a second two what you mentioned about wanting to
get the proof from strangers.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And I think that's so.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Important for people who are starting at a business or
who may be struggling in their business, because again, going
to the people that love you and care for you
and admire you, those folks are not the ones that
are going to grow your business to something that's self sustaining.
(31:17):
It's just not going to happen. And very often people
take their business idea and they put it in front
of their friend community. And when you do that, you
are kind of turning your back to the hundreds of
thousands or thousands or hundreds of people who are strangers
(31:38):
who have an interest in the thing, the product that
you're selling or the service you're offering.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I think you need to go to strangers first. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I was just going to say, I love you leaving
going to a completely different environment where you and your
bag or a stranger, you know, and just kind of
like setting up shop. Okay, guys, this is what I have.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, And that's literally what I did for the first
two and a half years that I round this company
is I had a ten by ten foot tent, and
I was at the La County Fair, Sandio County Fair,
State Fair, Farmers' markets. I went to this thing called
the Flower Festival in South Carolina. I did events in Vegas,
(32:20):
like I went at Atlanta, like all over setting up
musting content and sell them backs to one person at
a time. But that was the most valuable thing I
could have done for multiple reasons. Number one, it was lucrative,
like you make money that way, so you're not wasting
(32:42):
time trying to do like market research and you know,
you know, group focus groups and whatever, like just get
out there and talk to people and they either buy
it or they don't. If they don't, then you need
you need to pivot. And that's that's a whole other topic.
But and then number two, it gave me everything I
need to know about my SASH customer, who now you know,
(33:06):
the Sash community are known as Sash sisters. So yes,
now like my like a SASH sister, I can see
a sashistor a mile away, I know you know what
phase of life she's in. I know what question she's
going to ask before she asks them, I know what
she's going to buy first, second, third, Learning all of
that would have been I'm not going to say impossible,
(33:26):
but it definitely would have taken a lot more time
and money and focus away from actually just growing the business,
so that by the time I was able to launch
online and do the online community and all of that,
I already knew exactly what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
It's getting into it, it's putting your heart into it.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, And I think it again bypasses a lot because
I think people, you know, every launch you have and
every business, every product or whatever, is going to have obstacles.
And I think one of the hardest things for people
to figure out is is this obstacle telling me that
I need to do something different or is this just
(34:06):
a natural part of growth and a challenge that I
need to overcome.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
And how do you know? And I know it changes
and you know, but based on what you've encountered and experienced,
how would a person know.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
This is how I actually arrived at this, you know,
twelve years or fourteen, thirteen years ago before I started
the company, is because I had just gotten off of
this experience of my failed business, where I saw every
obstacle or every challenge or every you know, overdraft notice
(34:49):
in my bank account, is like I need to keep
going right, like I just need to persevere. Don't give up, right,
this is what you hear. You hear, don't give up,
you hear fake it till you make it, like keep
going right. And so that I was like, yes, I'm
not going to give up. I believe. I believe in
this idea, like I'm gonna keep going now. And then
(35:14):
I was like literally CouchSurfing with my child at the
end of that. So and then when I was starting
the second business, this current business, and I was on
my way to Vegas, this is this is a true story,
I obviously, because why would I told him it wasn't true. Okay,
So it just okay, whatever, Okay. So I'm in my
(35:35):
little tiny car and I've got Kiva in the back seat.
She was she was what at the time, she was
a year old, so Keipa was a year old. She's
in the back seat. Noah's in the front seat. He
was six seven at the time. Okay, And I've got
the rest of my car is packed. It was a
Honda fit and I have everything for my booth. I
(35:55):
was going to a trade show in this car, driving
in Vegas, and this is the first time that I'm
going to be selling my product to strangers. Right. I
come over the mountain, the hill where you can see
Vegas in the distance, and I'm like, all right, here
we go. Am I crazy? I don't know? Here we go?
And the next thing I know, Kiva projectile vomits all
(36:17):
over the car and all over everything. And it was
one of those moments, right, It was one of those
moments where I was like, maybe I shouldn't be doing this.
This is this is the universe literally barfing all over
my idea and my ambition, and I need to turn
this car around. I'm crazy. And that's what happens, right,
(36:38):
like like the big things will happen to like try
and stop us. And then so that's where you go
like should I is that? Do I listen to that?
Or is that just a challenge I need to overcome
right right? Right, because this happens in relationships too, right,
Like something will happen and you're like, oh, no, is
that a deal breaker? Do I break up with this person?
Or do we work? This is a sign?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Right, tell me more?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And then you get more and it's like but tell
me more. I was thinking about this morning in you know,
my most famous relationship blow up where there were so
many things that I overlooked, and I remember joking about
how I was going to write a book called God
give Me Four Signs because three one one is not enough,
(37:24):
two is not enough, three is not enough. I'm just
gonna be going maybe the fourth one. I'm like, oh
wait a second, but yeah, so that, but I kept going.
I just was like, no, I've I've put too much
into this. I'm gonna I'm gonna wait and not let
those types of things stop me, like the signs, and
(37:47):
I'm going to look for the evidence. So I get
to this trade show. I set up my booth and
this was my first time selling it in public. These
were handmade samples that I made in my backyard with
one of my friends, one of my neighbors, and I
wrote twenty thousand dollars in orders got begunned so that
I'm like, okay, the barf was just to keep me going.
(38:10):
The twenty thousand dollars is evidence that I need to
do this business.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And also to keep you going. Yeah, you know, I
was talking to Xavier last night, my grandson, and we
(38:35):
were talking about making a decision that maybe you're not
sure it was a decision he made, and he said
that he wasn't sure that it was the right decision,
and it was after the fact, and so I asked
(38:58):
him if he really believed that it wasn't the right decision,
and he said it wasn't sure, and I said, okay, well,
I'll leave you to figure that out. But in the meantime,
sometimes in life, we are so accountable, so responsible, that
we believe that once we make a decision, that that's
(39:21):
the decision that we have to take and continue to
go with, even if we know that it's wrong after
we've made it. And I think that the world tries
to convince us that, well, you made up your mind,
you did this, and now take this all the way
to the death of it. And so I asked him, like,
let's say that in twenty five thousand years you are
(39:44):
getting ready to get married, and imagine that it was
the day before you were getting ready to actually walk
down the aisle with this person. You know, the wedding's
been planned. People have, you know, put money into you
getting married, including you. You know, you have guests on
(40:05):
both sides of the family. And imagine if you knew
in your heart of hearts that this was not the
right decision for you, what would you do? And he
said I would I had given my word, I would
probably go forward. And I to which I said, no,
wrong answer, absolutely not, absolutely not, because when we move
(40:33):
forward past the point that we know in our gut
is the right place to go, sometimes we do it
because there are so many external things tied into it,
but ultimately staying that course is going to create more
damage than if you had stopped right then and there.
(40:54):
And so he said, well, how do you know? And
I said, well, it comes with giving yourself the same
grace that you would give to a friend who may
give you crappy ass advice one week and great advice
the following week, but you build trust with that person
so that even if the advice isn't great, you can
kind of tweak it. And you have to do the
(41:15):
same thing with yourself and know that what you believe
in and what you're able to put your heart into,
you can actually you should go ahead and move forward
with that thing. So I'm thinking about that with Kiva Barfing,
where it's like, does this mean you know that I
(41:35):
should stop this thing because I now have throw up
all over my backs. Or is it just, you know,
just something that happened and you chose to lean into
the road that you were on and the thing that
you were looking to accomplish, and it works. I don't
think there's an easy answer. It's not black and white,
(41:58):
but I think it's it's art. It's the art of
learning yourself. It's the art of trusting who you are
on the planet and trusting your gut.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, and sorry, I was like taking a couple of
notes while you were writing because or while you were talking,
because I don't want to forget to kind of riff
off what you were saying that when it comes to
decision making, I love the conversation you had with Savior
at the age that he's at because he yeah, that's
(42:30):
going to be a theme, right. And I think that
the key for me is empowering making decisions and empowering
them yes and not needing to know if it was
the correct or incorrect, Because if you empower the decision,
you don't waffle in this like, ooh is it the
(42:50):
right one? I don't know? Then you will learn faster
The impact right, And there's positive and negative consequences to
every decision that you make, and you can try and
anticipate them, but you're not going to know them until
you actually empower that choice and like move forward with
a thing and then be willing to make another decision right.
(43:11):
And so that's part of it, is like empowering your
decisions and then allowing yourself to continue making them, like
as soon as the impact is felt, as soon as
the circumstances present themselves, then you can decide, oh, I'm
going to keep doing this or I'm going to do
something else. And then the other part of it, which
I think is the harder part, is not letting other
(43:32):
people's ideas about your decision making stop you from making
the decisions that you want to make.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Thank you, or keep you stuck in that where you
feel like, well, they all told me not to do it,
and I'm doing it anyway, and trying to move forward
in a positive way with the weight of that, because
then you're putting yourself in a situation of literally trying
(44:01):
to move forward with a heavy ass bag, you know,
to move and and like own the decision. You have
to own the decision and own all parts of the decision.
It doesn't mean that you don't consider other people, obviously.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
But we're considerate people so exactly. If anything, you know,
we probably could practice only considering ourselves and we still
would consider other people.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
More exactly exactly. And I just think that's such a
lesson for especially for all people, not not younger people. Everyone,
you know, trust, learn to trust in yourself. You know,
there's so many people giving so many opinions, and quite frankly,
the folks who actually are doing what you're doing, those
(44:53):
are the folks that aren't going to be so quick
to give you there to impose their opinion because they
know the game you're playing. They know the game that
you're playing and what it takes to actually get there.
So the last time we spoke was I don't know,
we don't know when, right, it was a little bit after.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
During the pandemic at some point or five years ago
almost for I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
So this is a big question, and just to kind
of bring this full circle, what are the couple of
things or one whatever comes to you that you've learned
over the last few years personally, professionally, as a parent.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
One of the things that I've learned, and we kind
of touched on it a little bit, is how much
there are themes in my life and if I look
at my patterns that I'm familiar with in myself because
(46:04):
of my entire upbringing and things that I know that
I do, that they're also showing up in my business
and it's not always obvious to me because it's so
it's it's my own pattern and I don't always see
how it's playing out with like you know, partnerships or
(46:26):
vendors or other problems in the business. And so getting
allowing other people to get more involved in my day
to day so they can reflect those things to me,
and trusting them when they when they reflect it to me.
Has That's been a huge one, I would say. Another
(46:46):
one is I've relearned how important my community is because
when you and I met on the last podcast, it was,
you know, during the pandemic, and that I didn't know
yet at that time how important that community was going
to be to get me through that time. And when
(47:11):
when I talk to people now, because you know, to
your point, people do reach out to me a lot,
and they want to know, they want it, they have
an idea and they want to bring it to life,
or they're in a certain place for their business and
they want to grow it. The number one thing I
tell people to do is build a community. Build a
community around what you're doing. If you're having a hard
time building a community, then that tells you something too
write like maybe maybe the message, maybe the product, or
(47:34):
the goal or the idea isn't resonating with people, and
that's okay. You just have to figure out what will
or maybe it's not clear exactly. Yeah, So there's so
much that you can get, you know, for yourself, for
your business, you know, by building that community. And what
else have I learned? I have learned how flip and
(47:54):
resilient I am. Like I said, I something I already knew.
But you know, every every challenge is an opportunity to
reaquaint yourself with your own badassory.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, And you step up to the plate
on that one.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
You're like, you're coming.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
It's okay, I got something for this. Like there, you
are one of the most resilient people that I know.
And I'm saying that not and I know resilience and
strength are very similar, but I'm choosing resilience because to me,
(48:36):
resilience is being able to work through problems when they
come your way, and being able to stand in the
face of challenging times. And I think there's that extra
nuance and that that kind of secret sauce that you
possess and that you embody, which is not a lot
(48:57):
like you have the ability to be with the circumstances
that confront you or that you confront in your life,
and you do it in a way that keeps you
true to the core that is nicole like you don't
(49:20):
you you you stay nicole, You stay authentic, you stay present,
you stay vulnerable, curious, And I believe from the outside
looking in that that is what helps you to be
even more resilient, because you're clear, and when you're clear,
(49:42):
you can you're not so ameshed in the story around
it and the drama around it and the emotion of it.
Not that obviously you know you you're emotional and you
have emotions, but you seem very clear about who you
are and how you're going to show up on this
planet no matter what comes your way. And I think
(50:03):
that that is something that is such an inspiration to
those of us who know you and love you and
walk this path with you, and it's also a beautiful,
beautiful model for your children and the other children that
you know who are within your orbit. It's just really
(50:24):
a beautiful thing to watch it, truly is. I'm so
humbled and feel so honored to be your friend and
to be a sister friend, you know, because we've been
through a lot of shit together, lots and lots of
shit together. I do want to ask before we close,
(50:47):
how can we support you?
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Just being present is the support, the greatest support people
can offer, you know, like showing for the things that
people are putting out. If you are someone who is
having a regular handbag drama, come join the SASH community
(51:14):
and just being part of the community will lend its
support not just to me into the company, but to
so many women. And if you aren't, you know, there's
so many ways to connect. I think connect connection is support.
So connect connect with me. I just launched my sub
stack on Monday. I'm on social media. Yeah, just connecting
(51:37):
is I think the best way to support each other.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Nicole, Thank you, Thank you so much. I adore you.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
I adore you.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
I know that I actually know that one of the.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Things I love about us is like we see each
other all the time, and yet every single time we
see each other, we're like, hey, there you are.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
You know, And I'll just say just end with this.
Curate for yourself a community of friendship and people in
your life who help you to see who you are
and who love you in spite of yourself or in
(52:24):
spite of some of your behaviors at times. Find people
on this there they exist, they exist, And I think
having people in your life who can give you support,
encouragement and also call you out, you know when when
(52:44):
when the need arises, is one of the most important
things that we can do for ourselves and for each other.
Be an amazing friend and find amazing friends and community,
because that that's what we need. You know, no matter
what's happening in the world. You know, some years are
(53:04):
better than others. But over the long call, the long
game is community and connection and human beings. And so
I encourage you to to, if you're listening, make sure
that you're in community in real life, in real life community,
well said, yeah, thank you, thank you. That was an
(53:35):
amazing conversation with my incredible friend Nicole MacDonald. What I
really enjoyed about that conversation is the fact that she
was able to share so many gems about her own
journey from someone who had a business that didn't work
out where she was literally couch surfing with one of
(53:55):
her children, to building a multi multimillion dollar business. It
is an incredible story and model for those who are
seeking to do the same. What I loved most about
the conversation was her mention of the fact that you
need to stop when you know it's time to stop,
and I think that that is a wise and sage
(54:18):
advice for many many areas of life. Thank you so
much for listening to this podcast. It means so much.
I encourage you to share this episode if you think
that it will help someone you know, and continue listening.
I appreciate you. Love and peace until next time. This
is Lusan Boskia on the Shaping Freedom podcast.
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