Loving an Addict: A Daughter's Journey to Healing

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Addiction, the disease that makes you too
selfish to see the havoc you'vecreated or care about the people
whose lives you have shattered.
On today's episode of Share theStruggle podcast, we're going
to dig in to addiction and whatit means to love somebody who
has an addiction.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let me tell you something Everybody struggles.
The difference is some peoplechoose to go through it and some
choose to grow through it.
The choice is completely yours.
Which one you choose will havea very profound effect on the
way you live your life.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
If you find strength in the struggle, then this
podcast is for you.
Do you have a relationship thatis comfortable with
uncomfortable conversations?
Uncomfortable conversationschallenge you, humble you and
they build you.
When you sprinkle a little timeand distance on it, it all

(01:04):
makes sense.
Most disagreements they stemfrom our own insecurities.
You are right where you need tobe.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
The whole day gone, falling behind, to rest in peace
.
What it do, what it do.
Good Lord, almighty, am Ifeeling thankful to be back with
you Today's?
A milestone episode for usEpisode 250.
Milestone episode for usepisode 250.

(01:46):
That's kind of a crazy momentin time for us to be at 250
consecutive episodes of thepodcast and, ironically, I think
that episode 250 has thepotential to be one of the most
difficult yet inspiring episodesof the podcast, one that we are

(02:08):
going to put out today withtrue hopes and aspirations of
helping someone with a realdesire of causing and affecting
change today.
With that being said, I couldnot be any more proud to be
joined tonight by my lovely,beautiful wife, miss Allie

(02:31):
Liberty, over there.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
That's me, hey guys.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Welcome to the show.
My dear I'm not my dear.
My dear, my dear, oh here, here, that's something mya would say
right here.
I was trying to think of aMadea line real quick, and I
couldn't think of one, hit mewith one alert alert.
That's it, alert alert.

(02:56):
Last week you joined me as well.
You picked the topic for theshow last week because you were
some fired up about.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh yeah, that's right .
I was like did I join you lastweek?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
I know right, it feels like it's been longer than
a week, doesn't it?
Yeah.
So last week you picked thetopic and, as life would have it
, this week you picked the topicagain and here we are getting
ready to discuss reallysomething that everybody in the
country deals with, somethingthat I think every household at

(03:33):
this point has dealt with hassome kind of struggle with named
share the struggle.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
I think it's important for us to discuss and
dig into one of the greateststruggles in our country today
and that's addiction yeah, insome way, shape or form, it has
touched you, whether it be afamily member, a close friend, a
friend of a friend.
It has touched everyone.

(04:03):
And if, if you say it hasn't,you haven't dug deep enough
because it has in some way shapeor form, you just start peeling
back the onion and you're goingto find it.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
It's like whether it's one layer, two layers, four
layers deep you're going tofind somebody.
I think addiction is a greatequalizer because it does not
care about your social status,it does not care about how big
your bank account is, it doesnot care who you voted for, who

(04:34):
you pray to.
Addiction really has noboundaries and I am willing to
bet in some way, shape or form,with varying degrees, every
household in America has someform of struggle with addiction.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
So this is I think we should start this episode off
with a trigger warning.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
A trigger warning.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, talk to me trigger warning.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, okay, talk to me.
Trigger warning is basicallywhen you're going to get into
like a deep, uh, conversationthat could trigger somebody,
like it could be, emotional, itcould be.
I think we should use that fromhere on out, like if it's going
to be, or even when you're inthe middle of it and you know
that you're about to get likedeep and dark and it might like
yeah hit you in the feels youknow it's gonna trigger some

(05:27):
kind of heavy thought or emotion.
Yeah, I think it's important tolet people know, um, that it
goes with a heavy heart as towhat we're about to talk about
and if you are listening to thepodcast, we're super thankful
and we appreciate you taking thetime.
But we want to give you thatheads up and that warning that

(05:48):
if you're about to walk intowork, we don't want this to be
some sort of trigger for youthat you have to gather yourself
.
You know what I mean.
I think it's important.
I think it's important.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think some of our episodes are uplifting.
We always try to put a positivespin on an episode, which we
shall do again today.
We always do.
But some of our episodes are alot more lighthearted and fun,
right, and others there's a lotof heavy lifting and emotion.
That goes into it.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
And today is certainly going to be one of
those.
Yeah, real, raw and honest.
Real, raw and honest and intrue liberty fashion.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
yesterday, when all of this situation took place, I
said to you let's record thepodcast yeah, before we even
really dive head over heels intothis, I want to start off by
saying to you that I'm proud ofyou for saying to you that I'm
proud of you for opening up,sharing something so personal

(06:49):
and the fact that that was yourfirst thought right.
Like not your first thought, butwhen you started to process
things and some time had kind ofset in, you said well, let's
talk about this.
And I think that shows a fewthings.
Number one it shows the type ofperson you are, that you're

(07:09):
transparent, you're willing tobare your soul and your heart
with the hopes of making adifference for somebody else.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, I hope that my story, my message that I put
across can help somebody or givethem the push that they need to
make the change that they need.
Because, I'll tell you, whatwe're about to dig into is not
for the weak.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
I commend you for sharing your story, your thought
process in wanting to helpsomebody, and also I'm proud of
you for having the strength toshare your story, because too
many people keep this stuff in.
Too many people bottle thisstuff up and then it turns into

(07:58):
a cancer inside you that willeat away at you, so I'm so
thankful for you that yourthought process was I'm going to
get this out, I want to sharemy thoughts and I'm going to do
what's right and I'm going tohope that by being transparent
and heartfelt, that I'm going tohelp somebody.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
That's my goal.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Without any further ado.
I think to kind of rip off theband-aid and start getting into
the discussion this is apersonal topic for you and to
tackle addiction head on.
We are going to start right offwith a family dynamic and what

(08:38):
your childhood was like and, um,if you could just express to
some of the people that maybethis is the first time that
they've joined the podcast ormaybe they're long time loyal
day ones, but they just it'sbeen a long time since they
heard any of this.
But really, for those of thefolks that are listening for the

(08:58):
first time or they're new to uswe've picked up a lot of new
listeners as of late kind of setthe scene for them a little bit
about what your childhood waslike and, you know, just kind of
paint the picture to pave theroad a little bit here about
your upbringing.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, so I am the oldest of two children, so
myself and my brother and I canrecall up until my brother and I
were maybe like I think I waseight, so my brother was

(09:34):
probably like four.
Life was great.
Mom, dad, I can remember thosethings, but I didn't know any
better either.
So what I recall is that welived in this beautiful house,
we had four wheelers, we werenear a lake, we would do those

(09:57):
things, but every night myparents would have people show
up at the house all the time andthey were always in their
quote-unquote office and Iremember so well that all I

(10:18):
could smell was skunk all thetime, all the time.
And I didn't know any better.
We lived in the woods and I waslike, and my parents would
always cover it up and just saylike, oh, it's a skunk outside.
Well, the more I grew older, yourealize that they were just
smoking weed, and this topic isnot going to be about smoking

(10:40):
weed, because everybody in theretom, dick, dick and Harry
smokes weed.
It's not about that.
So I just want to put that outthere.
Day in and day out there wouldbe people at the house, and the
more that I grew older, the morethis addiction became more

(11:04):
intense.
There was alcohol involved,there was pills involved, there
was weed involved, and thesesort of transactions and
situations happened around us,so around, like I don't know.

(11:30):
Maybe nine or ten is when Ireally started to realize like
what?

Speaker 2 (11:32):
exactly was going on?
Um, from the age eight to ten,there's constant flows in the
evening, people coming by eitherduring the day.
In the evening we were meetingsomewhere doing whatever they
were taking you guys on meetupsto drop things off.
So after about a year or twoyears of this you kind of
realized this isn't normalreally and you start to really

(11:53):
put together what's actuallyhappening.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
At that time it started to become more clear
because the aggression started.
That's when it started to comeup.
So the alcohol and the drugsmixed together formed, um, an
aggression, uh towards me, um,and so at that point, um, it

(12:18):
became like a constant thing.
Um, I was, I was beat down, Iwas abused, I was hurt, and I
would stand up to my parentsbecause I didn't want my brother
to get hurt.
So I took the brunt of itbecause he was so young.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
When you say you stood up to your parents and
took the brunt of it to protectyour brother are you referring
to abuse.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yes, yes, physical abuse.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Is this coming from both of your parents?
One of your parents?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Well, the physical was not from my mother, the
verbal was from my mother.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
So you have your father being abusive, physically
abusive, putting hands on youand then when you're thinking
that your mother should bestepping in to protect you,
she's, in turn, actually beingmentally abusive or manipulative
yeah, she would turn the otherway.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
She wouldn't.
Yeah, she would turn the otherway.
She would go downstairs in thebasement or in the office and
close the door and she wouldjust lie about it.

(13:44):
If I would say something aboutit house and tell her what
happened, or if I had a mark onme and I would tell her, she
would say she's lying and shejust wants attention.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I'm sure at this age going to school, you're 10 years
old and you have marks on you.
Other kids had to notice orbring things up or the marks
were always in a hidden spotyeah, did you so at that time I
started going to the guidancecouncil I'm gonna say did you
ever speak with somebody atschool like this is what's, this

(14:16):
is what's happening at home yep, um, and the first time that I
did that um, a d DHS workershowed up at the house.
That didn't go so well.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
No, no, that did not go over very well at all, and
again it was just a lie.
I was lying.
I do this all the time.
I am a manipulator.
I am the problem.
I have a problem.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
I've met many 10-year-olds that were the
manipulative problem, you know.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
So at that point, when the abuse would happen, I
began to run away.
I would run away to my friendCatherine's house and they would
, they would protect me, theywould um, I can't tell you how
many times, um, I ran away toher house and they knew I went
there.
And the police would go totheir house and and Catherine's

(15:14):
dad would say she's not here, Ihaven't seen her, and I would be
upstairs on the top, on the topbunk with a blanket over my
head and just begging him not tolet them.
Let them come in.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
This already triggers the fact that this many years
ago, there's still so much wrongin this country with not
stepping in and protectingchildren.
Like DHS has to know betterthan just to show up at the
house.
This is going to, this iswhat's going to happen.
Like DHS, has to know betterthan just to show up at the
house.
This is what's going to happen,like you're provoking this

(15:47):
abusive father to beating theshit out of his kid, like
questioning them is not the way.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's not the answer.
Yeah, all they did was justcome and do a welfare check.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, that's, and I get it because a lot of times
there could be situations where,like, you need to do some
research, but do your damnresearch if the kid has marks
and stuff or you know the thewhole law enforcement thing
going out and looking for you.
Um, it's just crazy that thatthey couldn't see this.

(16:17):
Like you can't interviewsomebody that's all messed up on
pills and weed and drunk andbelieve them.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's crazy, but that's thething.
It was masked.
Yeah.
So when DHS would show up, theywere this perfect mom and dad,
we have this beautiful house, wehave this four-wheeler, we have
all this stuff and she's justungrateful.
I remember them saying that allthe time.

(16:45):
And she's just ungrateful.
I remember them saying that allthe time.
She's just ungrateful, she's aspoiled brat and she doesn't get
what she wants, so she makes uplies and she runs away.
Those are the things that Ioverheard them say to the DHS
worker.
She has a beautiful bedroom,she has this, she has that, she
has this, but what you don't see?

Speaker 2 (17:11):
is what happens behind closed doors.
That's the problem.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
One of the uh craziest stories that I've heard
from you about how far theywould go to portray themselves
as not being abusive addicts was, um the family photo yeah yeah,
they were on the wall, theywere perfect, they were the

(17:35):
perfect photo and that was theonly photos that we ever had had
done I remember you saying thatthey were like under
investigation.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Right, they were under investigation so it was a
dhs open case, so to overcomethat, they were like under
investigation, right, mm-hmm?
They were under investigation.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, it was a DHS open case.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
So to overcome that, they wanted to paint the picture
of this great, happy family.
So they go, book the JCPenney.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Macy's, whatever mall glamour shot photo.
We had never done that, ever,ever.
And then immediately we camehome and they made sure to get
like the biggest package and itwas like, but I'm all up on the
wall.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
That's completely an addict's justification in
covering something too.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, yeah, because I was goingthrough pictures and I found
them and I just like thosepictures.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
Like I look at them and they just make me cringe.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, that's the hardest thing.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
That's the thing, like if we're starting to relate
this to other people that arelistening.
That's the thing that, like you, can't believe in social media.
You know, like this waspre-social media.
But how many people do we havein our lives right now that
they're putting these, you know,filter-fueled images on social
media to protect the fact ofwhat's going on behind closed

(18:40):
doors?
You?
Know what I mean To paint thatfalse image that we have this
happy family when in actualitybehind closed doors.
You know what I mean to paintthat false image that we have
this happy family when inactuality behind closed doors
like it's all hell.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
You know yeah, and it's as simple as like baseball
games and all this kind of stufflike that we would go to to
attend.
I can recall my dad having agatorade or fruit punch gatorade
bottle with a Cape Cod in it onthe bleachers of a kid's
baseball game.

(19:11):
I can recall these things andit's like who knows how many
pills you took before youstarted drinking.
And then here you are sittingon the bleachers dozing off.
I can't tell you how many timesyou'd be sitting there having a
conversation with him and hewould just doze off.
I can't tell you how many timesyou'd be sitting there having a
conversation with him and hewould just doze off, like you're
not tired, like here.
I am thinking that's, that'snormal.
You know, I don't know anydifferent.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
People got to understand you're.
We're talking about an eightyear old, a 10 year old, where
this shit's happening.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
I'm 10 years old, yeah, so um, after multiple
times of of hiding from thepolice, every time I had to go
home, and it never got easierwhen.
I went home, yeah.
It was always.
You get what you want.

(19:58):
The grass is always greener onthe other side, like you're a
spoiled brat, but really never.
Yeah sure, we have this houseand we're down the street from
the lake and we have these fourwheelers, but if you're being
abused and neglected, none ofthat stuff means anything to me.
I'm 10 years old.
I don't want any.
I don't want any of that.

(20:19):
I want to get away.
I want to get away fromeverything, from the hurt, from
the pain, but I don't feelcomfortable doing that with my
little brother being there.
Right.
My goal as the I guess it's noteven my goal my job as an older

(20:42):
sibling is to protect him.
That is your duty as an oldersibling to protect him.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
That is your duty as an older sibling to protect your
younger siblings the sad thingis is that's your fucking
parents duty, but they just werenot actual adults and parents.
You know right, and I know, ifyou have an abusive parent, then
you're trying to confide in theother one.
You're running to the other onefor protection and in turn,
you're trying to confide in theother one.
You're running to the other onefor protection and in turn,

(21:07):
you're actually getting accusedof things and manipulated and to
the point where, like you, havea mother that's jealous of a
10-year-old.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, I couldn't go to the store with my dad.
We couldn't go on, you know, ongood.
There was good days.
You know, my dad and my brotherand I we would go on four
wheeler rides and um, during theday was great.
It was at nighttime when hewould like start to drink and do
pills and he would getaggressive and um it.

(21:40):
Anytime we did anything thatAngel didn't want to be a part
of.
I would always return to thehouse and receive an attitude
like, like I'm entitled, likeI'm like just made me feel so

(22:01):
little.
I'm 10 years old.
I just want to come home and belike oh my god, guess what we
did?
Like we did this, we did that.
Like you want to share withthat other person, like what
happened, and she's like coolmust be nice.
That is what I heard my entirelife, my entire must be nice,
must be nice.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
In that monotone you had mentioned too.
She's always.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
She's not doing mom things either, like she's
playing on the computer alwaysplaying like farmville and being
on the computer just on socialmedia, because anytime that she
would get a job she would gethurt at it on purpose so she
could collect unemployment andsit at home.
She never wanted to keep a realjob.

(22:46):
To be honest with you, I can'teven.
The only job that I can recallthat she actually kept was when
she was a worker for my grandma,for one of her foster kids, and
that, to be honest, thinkingabout it now, never should have
happened.
That should have been aconflict of interest at its

(23:06):
finest, because here's angelworking with my grandmother's
foster kids as an employee yeah,that's not that's a conflict of
interest across the board, butthey allowed it to happen.
so she would would come in, shewould take care of um one of the
children and that she wouldtake them places and do things

(23:28):
and do that, and that's the onlyjob that I can actually recall
that she ever kept.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
So it's one of those situations where I'm going to
get a job long enough to eitherget let go or to have an injury
so I can collect unemployment.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
It was always an injury.
Until I get to the point oftrying to just collect
disability and never have towork again, basically Mm-hmm,
yep, yeah, I can recall like shefell down the stairs at work,
she slipped on the ice and hurther back and she got head-butted
at work, and this, that and thethird, like the list goes on

(24:07):
and on and on.
Like she had to have had like ared flag on her, you would
think yeah, unemployment status.
Unemployment status, disabilitystatus.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
This lady's had 15 injuries at work type of
scenario.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Once a year.
Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, it wasone of those things.
And then, like, god forbid, ifyou missed the bus and had to,
like, ask for a ride to school,forget about it.
Forget about it, you might have.
You might as well have justasked her to run a marathon.

(24:42):
Yeah, have just asked her torun a marathon.
She was not walking away fromher computer to bring you to
school.
No, you better walk.
I used to miss the bus onpurpose because she would make
my brother not at eight yearsold, this was like a little bit,
he was a little bit older.
He would miss the bus becausethat boy did not want to get up
out of school like out of bedand he would have to walk to

(25:03):
school and she would be sittingon the computer.
I would miss the bus becausethat boy did not want to get up
out of school like out of bedand he would have to walk to
school and she would be sittingon the computer.
I would miss the bus on purposeand walk with him because I
would have to walk by to go toschool how long was the walk?

Speaker 2 (25:17):
uh, you know where the um the gazebo is because, in
biddeford oh, so I didn't knowif you were still talking about
no this is like in biddefordokay yeah to the elementary
school in biddeford.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Wow, he's like eight that's crazy.
That's the shittiest part oftown for some little kid to be
walking yes in the first place Iwould purposely miss the bus so
that I could walk with him what, um, what happened to the nice
house and lost it because shedidn't want to work lost
everything.

(25:51):
Dan couldn't afford it on hisown lost everything.
But in the meantime, before allthat happened um, I mean they
were after that situation webounced from people's houses.
We stayed in people's houses,sharing living quarters, because

(26:17):
they lost everything, right,and we were staying in motels.
We were staying in motels, wewere staying in cottages, we
were staying with mygrandparents, we were staying
with Meme, really anywhere, butwe weren't anywhere for a long

(26:37):
period of time.
We jumped from place to placebut we were allowed at my gram's
house, but my dad wasn't.
They didn't have a goodrelationship because my
grandmother did not trust Dan.

(27:00):
She could read right throughhim.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
She knew what was happening at home Because she
believed me.
Yeah, she was the only one,correct, correct?
I know that there was a timewhen you were a little kid and
you ran away from home and stolea pedal bike and this is yep,
actually, you're correct, thatwas before we left the um water
from waterborough tondel, which,for those that don't know, I

(27:25):
don't even know the miles onthat, but that's it takes us 30
minutes to drive.
It takes us 30 minutes to drivethere and you pedal biked it as
a little kid.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, so actually, um , my bad on that, uh yeah.
So what had actually happenedis I had gone to the guidance
counselor for the last time.
Um, I had had enough, um, andthis time I was like you know
what, I'm going to the guidancecounselor and this time I'm not
leaving, I'm not going home,unless someone's coming with me.

(27:53):
Right.
I'm, I'm done, I can't do thisanymore.
Um, I will run away.
Um, I'm telling them everything.
I'm telling them everything.
And that day, um telling themeverything, and that day, the
guidance counselor was like Ican't physically do anything.
I remember them checking me forbruises and I remember them

(28:18):
calling DHS while I was in theroom.
They said that someone wouldmeet me there.
I'm, at this point, middleschool, I think.
Middle school, age 12, I think.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
How can a guidance counselor in DHS negotiate with
a 12-year-old?
You know what I mean?
Well, you get there and thenwe'll meet you there.
That's not how this shit shouldwork, man like you're not
protecting anybody nope.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
So at that point, when I had got home, there was
nobody there, there was no newvehicles in the driveway, there
was no, nothing.
So I had, uh, broken into theshed, um, and there was my
brother's mongoose bike and Itook it.
I took it, I had actually drove.

(29:09):
I took the bike and I went overto Catherine's house first and
they weren't home, and that wasmy safety net.
They weren't home and I saidwhat other option do I have?
I have to go somewhere.
And I know they're going to gothere anyway.
And that was their first lineof defense.

(29:30):
They went right there becauseCatherine told me afterwards
that they had gone there and itwas.
I don't know exactly who wentthere, but I know that it wasn't
just the officers, that's whatthey said.
There was multiple people thatwent to katherine's house, um
and um.
So instead, I, I just, I justdrove my bike, I, I just my

(29:53):
brother's bike, I rode and rodetalking about a 50 55 mile an
hour road, by the way, like it'snot yeah it's a trucker route
it's a trucker's route with a 12year old on a pedal bike like
not not safe at all.
Not one person stopped to ask meif I was okay.
Nope, nope, and these are backroads that I'm taking to, so

(30:15):
there's no street lights.
There's you know, it's afterschool, like I'm just driving,
I'm just pedaling and I'm goingto get there and every hill that
I got to I'm like counting, I'mlike, all right, I know I'm
this far away, I know I'm thisfar away.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
At this point you're scared of them coming up behind
you.
I'm sure I'm pedaling.
That's why I'm taking randomside roads, because I know if I
Trying to lose them Becausethey're not going to think that
I'm going to a rundle.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
They're going in Waterboro.
They're going to stay in thatarea.
They know that's where all myfriends are.
Right.
And so I get to mygrandmother's house and no one's
home.
Mind you, the driveway isactually.
My aunt and uncle live in thefirst house.

(31:05):
My uncle and cousins live inthe next house, like it's
basically just like a familycompound.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Family dead end road yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah.
And so like I end up, like mygrandma's actually on vacation,
and I break into the house and Icall her cell phone from the
house and immediately she saidwhat are you doing?
Yeah, and I just said I can't,I can't do it and I can't go

(31:32):
home.
I can't go home.
And she said lock the door anddo not open the door for anyone.
I'll be on the next plane homeand I will.
I will be there.
Don't open the door, becauseshe knew if I opened the door
they would take me home.
Yeah.
And I got worried this timearound that if I went home, how

(31:58):
bad it would be.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Like.
So I didn't open the door.
They did show up.
I didn't open the door, um, andI heard them out there um, but
I did what she said don't openthe door.
And then she was there and thenext day she is a um foster

(32:22):
parent.
So she has to legally reach outto the.
She has to reach out to DHS andsay listen, this is the
circumstances.
I know you have an open case.
I don't want to lose my licenseand I don't want to lose the
kids that I have here, but thisis the circumstances and she
does not want to go home.
You have open cases on herright now and I'm okay with her

(32:45):
staying here.
And they never I never became a.
They allowed me to stay there.
I moved in.
I had the ability to go with aDHS caseworker back to the house
in Waterboro to collect mybelongings and I remember Angel

(33:07):
saying I was sitting on thestairs going up to my bedroom
and she said you don't know whatyou're doing to this family,
you are breaking this family upand I remember that and I will
remember that for the rest of mylife, not the fact that I was
protecting myself and you wereseeing that.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
You were doing what she should have always done,
which is protect you.
Correct, you were the adult inthe situation and you're 12
years old.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
So at that point DHS allowed me to get all my
belongings pack them up and it'smy understanding now that I
never became a ward of the state, so I never became like a
foster kid or anything like that, like I.
What it sounds like to me isthat my parents allowed it to

(34:01):
happen.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Right, I got you.
This is they basically wantedto avoid a court case and
everything else, Correct correct.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
And so, with that being said, I was allowed to go
see them and they were allowedto come see me, and I could go
on weekend visits or any of thatnature if I wanted to.
And I didn't for a very, verylong time.

(34:31):
And then one time I went to govisit and I found myself on a
plane headed to see my UncleBruce.
I thought this was great.
It was the 4th of July, it'sperfect timing.
I'm like this is great, I'mgoing to watch all the fireworks
.
I haven't seen my uncle in solong and they tried to keep me

(34:54):
there.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
That's wild.
You don't spend any time withthem for months and then you go
to spend a weekend with them andthey try to abduct you and
bring you to Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
They didn't go with me, so they just threw you on a
plane.
They put me on a plane inPortland and my uncle was
waiting in Atlanta for mebecause I had a direct flight.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
So your uncle On a buddy pass, I'm sure has no clue
that their motive is to stealyou away from your grandmother.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
No idea, wow.
So it's summer break.
I'm there visiting, having thetime of my life.
I'm going to Six Flags.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Does your grandmother know where you are during this?

Speaker 1 (35:39):
I think so because when I called her she asked me.
Think so because when I calledher she asked me like I can't
remember like exactly, but I doremember after calling, like I
called to tell her like what wasgoing on because, like, I
talked to her not my parents andI remember having a
conversation with her abouteverything that was going on and

(36:01):
she asked me so when are youcoming home?
And my conversation with her isI don't know, I don't know.
So I asked my uncle, bruce,like I want to go home, when can
I go home?
And he didn't have an answerfor me.

(36:23):
Jeez, bro, and to be honest withyou, I don't really recall how
long I was there.
Yeah, I know it wasn't aweekend.
I know it wasn't a like.
I was on summer break, so I washaving a good time.
I'm 12 years old.
Like I'm in in another state,I'm visiting cousins I haven't
seen in a long time, so I don'trecall how long I was actually
there, but I was there for sometime.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
There was another situation where they had you for
a weekend and they dropped youoff somewhere, right?
What was that?

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, they had me for a weekend and this was like
this actually happened beforethe trip to Georgia.
So I was actually dropped offat the Halifax house, which is
for children who are disobedient, which is for children who are

(37:14):
disobedient.
Out of line, just not sane.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
So here you are.
You're a little kid.
You're getting the shit kickedout of you by your dad.
You're getting mentally abusedby your mother.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
They're blaming you as the problem and they drop you
off, basically at a halfwayhouse for kids.
Yeah, there was alarms on thedoor.
There was bars on the windows.
You couldn't come out of yourbedroom without the alarm going
off.
Um, you had to attend meetings.
There had like group meetings.
You weren't allowed to go offthe property.
Um, when I got there, I gavethem all my stuff, they went
through all my stuff and then Iwas told I couldn't use the

(37:56):
phone for like a week.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
They basically admitted their child to prison
for being the mature one in thefamily.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
And I was there for a couple of weeks.
And I called my gram every dayand I said come get me.
And she said I don't know whereyou are and I can't Because,
again, they're still my parents.
I never became a ward of thestate or she could have stepped

(38:30):
in.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
This is just a snippet of what your upbringing
was like.
They lose the house andeverything that they thought was
like their showpiece of life.
Basically, right the thing,that could cover everything up.
Angel doesn't want to work.
They're deep in drugs, sothey're bouncing from couch to

(38:53):
couch, to motel, to hotel towhatever.
Yep.
Do you have an instance where,unfortunately for you, your
whole world changes because yourgrandmother, who's raising you,
passes?

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, and she passed away when I had been living with
her from the age of I think itwas like 11, and I turned 12
when I was with her.
Yeah, because I remember I wasin middle school and so I lived
with her until, mind you, Ilived with her on and off on her

(39:30):
property, right, yeah, dealingwith this chaos, yeah because we
actually had a camper that wasbacked into like one bay of a
three-bay garage and one of thebays was turned into like a
living room so it was attachedto the camper that was in the
garage.
So I would honestly sneak outin the middle of the night and

(39:51):
run across the driveway and gointo my grandparents' room and
stay with them.
So I would honestly sneak outin the middle of the night and
run across the driveway and gointo my grandparents room and
and stay with them.
This is when I'm like way young, before my brother's even born,
um, but dan wasn't allowedthere yeah like.
So I lived with her most of mylife, um, and so I had been
living with her from the age offull term, lived with her every

(40:17):
day from the age of 11 to 17,when she passed away.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
So you feel like you're starting to get your life
straightened out.
You're 17, you're about tograduate high school.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yep, yep, and she's about to set me up.
Like you know, we're talkingabout like getting driver's ed
and getting like a real job anddoing all the things.
Um, she's, uh, she's setting me, setting me straight, she's
making me earn, uh, everything,working my tail off.

(40:51):
You know, nothing I ever hadwas ever given to me.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
She's instilling core values in you and making up for
the wrongs and teaching you thelife lessons that you should
have been taught, as opposed tothe ones that you were taught.
Correct.
And you're starting to makesomething of yourself and trust
me, I was an angry kid I wasfighting everyone at school.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, I had a bad attitude, but I had great reason
to do that.
I had a grown-ass man goingtoe-to-toe with me day in and
day out.
So of course I'm angry.
Yeah, I have so much to beangry for and I remember like
constantly being pulled into theprincipal's office because I
didn't care if you were fivefoot or six foot two.

(41:43):
You looked at me the wrong wayand I'm going to swing on you
because I have so much pent upanger.
By the time I was 17 years old,I had 10 assault charges.
Four of them, maybe even five,were on my own mother.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, she called the cops on you.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
And pressed charges.
Every single time, I defendedmyself.
Every single time I defendedmyself.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
So think about the fact that you have this young
girl growing up that is beingphysically abused by her father
Bullied, Bullied, standing upfor herself and then fighting
back.
And then you're rewarded byyour mother calling the police
and pressing assault charges onyou.
Yes.
Yeah, Yep, so you're starting toovercome this stuff.

(42:36):
You're you're learning rightfrom wrong, Like your, your,
your grandmother's really makingyou earn every single thing in
life and you're reallyestablishing these core values.
And the worst thing that couldhave ever happened is you wake
up and find that your uh, thatyour, your grandmother who
really is your mother at thispoint has passed.

(42:57):
Not only has she passed?
But you have to be the one tofind her.
Yeah.
And as if you hadn't alreadygrown up way too fast.
Now here we are again, and tonot go down that whole road.
What people need to understandis now, at this point, the rest
of your family steps in andtakes everything from you that

(43:19):
your grandmother had eitherawarded you or made you work for
.
Family steps in, takesabsolutely everything Correct,
and now your safety net and theonly person that you can trust
that's taking care of you isgone and you have nothing.
Nothing.
You had to go out on your ownand start a life for yourself by

(43:42):
yourself at age 17.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yep.
So, for whatever reason, angelshowed up at the house the day
that my gram had passed away andshe said come on, let's go.
I'm 17 years old, I just lostmy everything.
I don't know any better.

(44:05):
I don't know what I'm supposedto do.
I don't know which way is up atthis point.
All I do know is that my lifehad just changed in that moment,
that I had woken up and Ididn't know what to do.
So I ended up with Angel attheir motel room in Kennebunk

(44:29):
and we basically just sat thereand talked and I was like what?
I had my grandmother's dog,trixie, her little Datsun, with
me, and Trixie is just likecrying and crying.
And I just remembered, likeAngel, just I don't even know, I

(44:50):
don't even recall her cryingLike I don't even there was no
mourning, there was no, and Imean, everybody grieves
differently, but we were just ina hotel room, like just hanging
out Like it was a normal casualday.
Meanwhile, my life is beingpulled out in a body bag and
everybody is running through thehouse that I grew up in, taking

(45:11):
anything and everything,running through my room, her
room, in taking anything andeverything, running through my
room, her room, looking foranything and everything they
could of value.
Because again, here's thepicture.
We live on a compound.
They watched the hearse pull in.
They watched the hearse pullout.
They knew the house was no onewas there.
They knew the house was no onewas there.

(45:33):
They ran through that houselike it was no, like nothing
even happened, like they weresome sort of criminals breaking
in.
When I went back to that houseto collect some of my belongings
, to try and just not be in thehouse that I just found my
grandmother in the house was insuch disarray I threw up.

(45:56):
Like the house looked likesomeone had burglarized it and
this was only a few hours that Ihad been out of the house
because I said I can't be here.
Why am I here in this hotelroom?
Like here, I am 17 years old.
Like get me the fuck out ofhere.
I don't want to be here.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
That's crazy.
You never know people's truecharacter until times like that,
and it's extremely hard toforgive people when they act
that way.
You know, I know there's familyin your life that you've
reconnected with, but when youthink about those times, it's
like I don't even know how youcan.
You know what?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Sometimes it's like how do I forgive and forget
people for their actions whenthey did stuff like this Every
time.
This goes for pretty mucheverybody.
I feel like every time I losesomebody in my family I learn
some of the worstcharacteristics about the rest
of my family that's still living.
You see people's true insightsfor who they are and it's

(47:02):
disgusting.
So you're trying to reallysticking on addiction, because
this does stem from addiction.
At this point your parentschose pills and alcohol and weed

(47:23):
or whatever over you and you'restruggling with this.
The repeat scenario here isthat you always give them
another chance.
So after your grandmotherpasses, you're trying to make it
on your own, but this startsthe repeat effect of always

(47:46):
giving them another chance,another opportunity.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, as soon as she passed away, I didn't have
anything.
They wouldn't allow me, thefamily wouldn't allow me, to
stay at the house, even though Iwas 17 years old and I had
grown up in that house.
What they didn't know was thatI was about to come into some
money, a big chunk of money.
To be honest, I want to say itwas $122,000.

(48:12):
I was about to come into at 18years old because I had gotten
my arm caught in a hay baler atthe age you almost lost your arm
.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Yes, this opens up a whole other can where, like your
parents, manipulated thesituation to take money.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Oh yeah, they got their money for sure, for sure,
for sure, for sure and um.
So what the family didn't knowis that I was about to come into
some money and I would be okayto stay in that house, right,
but they refused to let me stayin the house that I grew up in
yeah they kicked me out and thenlet somebody else a family

(48:48):
member move in and destroy thehouse.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
The ironic thing is is you could have paid rent and
everything would have been fine.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
And there barely was a mortgage.
I think there wasn't a mortgage, it was just taxes.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
And the thing is is like we talk about when you
sprinkle time and distance onthings.
Eventually that house getsbasically destroyed and it gets
sold for less than you couldhave paid for it at age 17.
So you could have rented there,stayed there until you were 18
and bought that house, and everysingle family member that was

(49:20):
entitled to money would havemade more money off of you
buying that house than what theyeventually did when they sold
it because it was half destroyed.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah, they allowed a flood to happen purposely, I
don't know, but yeah, and sothey allowed a flood to happen
purposely, I don't know, butyeah, and so they sold it for
next to nothing.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
It's crazy how people's greed tends to come
back and eat them alive you know, so I don't know the best place
where you want to take this,but I know that it's a constant
struggle for you with them.
You end up going back with thembecause you have no other
option.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
I have no other option.
It was very short, short lived.
I had actually stayed with them, I can't exactly.
I had to stay with them for ashort amount of time because I
was still in high school, right?
So I had to I had to stay withthem for a short amount of time
because I was still in highschool, right, so I had to get
my diploma and while doing thatI was staying in the motel in

(50:20):
Kennebunk with them.
And then they had moved out ofthat motel into Biddeford and a
family member whose angel'sbrother called, called the
school Kenny bunk school andsaid Alison doesn't live in
Kenny bunk anymore, that's why,senior year I had to transfer

(50:44):
schools to Biddeford for avocational school program which
was early childhood developmentand a study hall.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
All because you know no one wanted hair across his
ass and wanted to prove a point.
Yeah, basically.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Yep, that my mom, that I wasn't living living in
Kennebunk anymore, so I didn'tdeserve to get a diploma from
Kennebunk and I didn't deserveto go to that school anymore.
Yeah, when the assistantprincipal was very close with my
family and very close with thisuncle of mine.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Here's another scenario, and less on
unforgiveness, because you haveforgiven him and just yesterday
you're counseling this man.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Wrong uncle.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Oh, this one's no longer here.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
I got you.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
This one has passed on, but I have a relationship,
then if that's the case.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
He's also the one that almost cut your arm off.
Correct, Correct.
What an asshole Yep.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yep.
So if anything, you owed mesomething.
Of course you did and if youwould have looked at the
scenario and been like, okay,she's going to a vocational
school in Biddeford and comingback for a study hall in
Kennebunk who gives a fuck ifshe graduated, I need one credit
, that's insane.
So I have a diploma fromBiddeford High School, but I

(52:13):
didn't attend Biddeford HighSchool.
Yeah.
I so much so that I ran the damnthing over.
I ran it over Like so.
During this entire process,angel and I saw more on hand of

(52:33):
the addiction.
I would see more and more Nowyou're basically an adult.
I'm an adult, yeah, at thatpoint, and I wouldn't stay there
at the motel.
90% of the time I was either atKatie's house or Lindsay's
house.
I didn't want to be there.
But where am I supposed to go?

(52:53):
What am I supposed to do?
But these friends of mine knewwhat was going on and basically
took me in Because, like theyunderstand the circumstances,
like they know, I don't want tobe with my parents based on the
addiction, based on the trauma,based on the abuse.
So they're trying to help me.

(53:14):
But I would see, day in and dayout, like we would just be
going to the store to get dinnerand you know, we'd be in the
parking lot and I'd look out thewindow and you see, like a hand
to hand, like he's, he's doinga drug deal while we're trying
to pick food up at Hannaford.
Yeah, you know what I mean,like it's just a constant thing.
And then you'd get back andAngel would be in front of the

(53:39):
computer, just like dozing off,like just staring, like hello,
hello, are you there?

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Like no, no, no.
So this is hard, it's hard toprocess and and we could go on
for hours about, yeah, separateexperiences and things um, but I
do know that there comes a timeI can only speak to, when you
and me start, start dating and Ican see the addiction with both

(54:13):
of them and you know themanipulation, all the lies, all
the times they promised you thatthey would, you know, be here
for something or we were goingto do something.
I see all of those things andall those letdowns and you know
you go over and see themanipulation and the sense of,

(54:34):
like Angel was always.
What am I going to get out ofthis scenario?

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Always it was a one-sided relationship, for sure
.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
And anytime we would be over there and you'd be
talking about something, itwould always be the must be nice
.
I heard that a multiple amountof times.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
I got a new job.
I got a new vehicle.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
We're going on vacation because we earned it,
all that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
I had actually heard from people that are no longer
friends of ours, that were atone point in time friends of
both of our families separately,that came to me at my work and
told me all the shit.
She was talking about you and me, you know, um, so you just you
hear those things, but but thedrug use became obvious and it

(55:22):
was tough for me to see youalways get your hopes up that
they would change and become theparents that you deserved.
So what would happen was arepeated cycle of you removing
yourself from a situation andthen them, you know, taking this

(55:44):
time, and they would run youthrough the mud like angel would
really be the vocal one thatwould run your name through the
shitter, that would talk shit toyour brother to keep you away
from from from us and, um, shewould be the one stirring the
pot and causing the argumentswith you and eventually you
would just cut all ties.

(56:04):
And then some time would passand you would forgive and forget
and try to mend therelationship, there'd be a
glimpse of hope you'd see someglimmer of hope that you could
fix this and you would gorunning back in to fix it.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah, Because I learned those characteristics
from my grandma.
She taught me to wear her, thatshe wore her heart on her
sleeve and she was always thereto help people.
And I learned that from her andI felt that, with that glimmer
of hope that I could fix it.

(56:39):
And that's what I hoped for.
I can fix this, I can fix this.
And I constantly said that.
And then I remember you and Ihaving a conversation and you're
like you can do whatever youwant, but I'm sick of picking up
the pieces for you becauseyou're getting hurt.
And it was at that moment thatI was like you're right, it's

(57:00):
not fair to you, it's not fairto you and it's not fair to me
to constantly be coming back,thinking and hoping and praying
and then just get my heartcrashed like crashed on again.
And it was at that moment thatI made the decision to I had to
walk away for us, yeah, for ourrelationship, because I was

(57:22):
worried it was going to put awedge in between us and that
what we have wasn't going to bewhat we had anymore.
And so at that point I startedto distance myself for longer
times.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
I know how hard that was for you because we went
through these cycles of like toyour point.
We would all of us would try towelcome them back.
Yeah.
My parents included, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
We would have them over for holidays, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
For dinners, and then it would turn into something
you know, like Always We'd maketheseners and then it would turn
into something you know like.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Always make these plans and then there would be
nothing and then it would wasalways some sort of drama, like
we were the problem.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
We did something, we said something.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah, we created something and the more this went
on, we realized that it wasshe's a narcissist at its finest
, of course, but we didn't untilyou had that conversation with
me to open my eyes to this iswhat's happening and you need to
see it.
Yeah, like I didn't see it, and, and that's the hardest thing,

(58:21):
is that I was constantlymanipulated, constantly like
this has been happening to youmy whole room, to this your
entire life, my whole life.
so I didn't see it, but you wereon the outside, so for you to
see it and open my eyes andexpress to me listen, I'm going
to support you 110% on what youdo, but I'm going to tell you
this is what's happening andthis is what I see.
It was not an easy conversation.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
It hurt.
Very difficult conversationbecause, like to your point it
was also you can do whatever youwant to do and I'm going to
support you.
But I'm getting tired ofpicking up the pieces every time
you come home and you aredestroyed and then it's a month
or two months to try to get yourconfidence back to get you back
to being who you are supposedto be to the person that I know

(59:06):
you are.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Right, you fall in this depression.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
It was just a vicious cycle all the time and at the
time there was a great portionof this where we were living
with my parents.
The whole household was livingthrough the depression.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
I read a thing the other day that said that loving
an addict is like grieving aloss.
You go through this like rollercoaster.
So you're like I'm good, I'mnot good, I'm good, I'm not good
.
And when I read that I thoughtback to our conversation and I
thought back to, wow, he wasright.

(59:43):
Wow, that's that's exactly whatI was going through, but I
didn't know anything different.
That was comfort to me.
The constant uh, fight like,fight for fight.
For me is what I is what I grewup on on.
There was constant likefighting and bickering in my
household, but it was likealways fighting for someone's
attention and you're getting anattitude from this person
because you were giving this oneattention.
I was used to that.

(01:00:03):
That was the.
That was the life that I livedand, to put it into perspective,
I started to dig in a littlebit deeper about what a
narcissist is and I'm likethat's it.

(01:00:25):
It's a narcissistic behaviorand she would know right where
to hit me.
That it would be she knew whatwould hurt.
Yes, she knew what would hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
She knew what would hurt, she knew what to say, and
the thing that always killed mewas that you always wanted their
happiness more than they did.
Every time I wanted you pushedharder for them to be happy.
You pushed harder for them tobe healthy.
You pushed harder for them tomake the right choices than they
did and they began to resentyou for it.

(01:00:52):
They began to resent you for thefact that you were becoming
happy.
They resented you for the factthat you were building a life
for yourself, that you got outof the scenario, that you were
bettering yourself.
They resented you for it.
She completely hated you for it.
But talk about how you'veruined the family and you chose

(01:01:13):
me over the family and all thesethings, and you wanted her
happiness more than she ever did.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah, I wanted her to be healthy, happy and sober.
Yeah, More than they did.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Because it was always— you wanted the mother
that you should have always had.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Correct.
That little girl inside of mebegged and pleaded for a
relationship and I tried, and Itried and I tried day in and day
out.
Let's go to counseling, let'swork on this, and it was always
you're the problem, you're it,you cause all of this and I

(01:01:57):
don't have a problem.
That's what I would be greetedwith.
I don't have an addiction, I'mnot the problem.
You're just right back to beingspoiled, rotten, and it has
nothing to do with that.
I just see through theaddiction and the thing of it is
is loving someone who is anaddict is so hard.

(01:02:24):
It's so hard because, likeyou're saying, you want it more
than they do, and I can't tellyou how many times I have left
their driveway crying because Ijust wanted them to do better
and I had hopes and I prayedthat they could do it, that they
could get sober and they couldchange.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
We got to the point where you had to cut all ties.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
All ties from both of them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
We talk a lot on this podcast about having to make
the difficult decision to walkaway from negativity at all
costs, no matter how close thatperson is to you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Yeah, letting go of things that are not serving you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
The greatest challenge you could have ever
had is walking away from yourparents because they were taking
you down.
They were toxic and by doing so, your life changed.
Drastically.
You've built an amazing lifefor yourself and so many
positive things have happened.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
I've prayed for this life and here I am living it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
We To try to connect some of the dots here, just so
people can kind of understandyour parents.
They separate.
Your dad goes through somestruggles but he's come out of
this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
He was having a real hard time with the addiction.
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
And we had a time where we helped him get through
the addiction and everything wasgreat.
And then he relapsed, and thenhe would relapse and fall right
out of the graces.
Just stop talking to her andthen we said, okay, that's it,
we can't help here anymore, I'mdone.
But he's doing great now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
He is doing wonderful .
He's in a healthy relationshipA great career.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
He's happy.
He's held down a great careerfor years.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
And we've invited him with all of the work that he's
put in and that he's put theeffort forward.
We've allowed him and welcomedhim back into our life, but
there was a good amount of timethat.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
The most important thing you can say in this is
that he's in his granddaughter'slife.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
He is now and it didn't start out that way.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
That's great for both of them you know, and, and I'm
still at an arm's length withthis whole scenario and uh, but
I'm proud of him for thedifferences and I can see that
he has that he has changed, andI'm me too and I'm happy for him
.
And this is all we ever wantedfor angel was for her to see the

(01:04:59):
light, take the actionablesteps herself to change herself
so that she too could have thesame thing because they both got
the same treatment from you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
They did, they did.
They both got cut off.
Uh, 100 completely.
Uh, no communication, I'm done.
They would reach out and Iwouldn't respond.
Um, I would see them in publicand I wouldn't respond.
I would walk in the otherdirection, um, because they
weren't ready and I knew theyweren't ready.
Based on the conversation andthe messages that I would
receive, like, um, I could tellthat they had not had enough

(01:05:37):
time to think about thereasoning why I was away, other
than the fact that, again, I'mthe problem.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
I think that Dan got to a point where he realized
these are my mistakes that Ihave to own and I caused.
This angel never got to a pointof believing or accepting
responsibility or accountabilityfor any of her actions.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Yeah, dan getting sober.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Is what really allowed all of those feelings to
kind of surface.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
You remove yourself.
Your life changes.
Your brother removes himselfYep.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
His life changes.
Yep he, your brother, removeshimself.
Yep His life changes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Yep, he's a dad now.
Yep, your dad's rebounded andmaking it a second life for
himself.
Mm-hmm.
And Angel spirals down Hard.
Yes, to the point where wereally weren't keeping tabs on
anything, mm-hmm.
And we were informed that shewas on the news.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Yeah, we were.
I would get updates here andthere from people, but just
dismissed it because I justdidn't want it to be reality.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
You're trying to remove yourself too, right yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Because we live in a small town, everybody knows
everybody, everybody knows her,and that she's my mother.
So I would constantly get thesereminders, but I wouldn't feed
into them and I wouldn't reachout and I wouldn't do anything
about them, because I didn'twant them.
Number one didn't want them tobe true.
Number one, number two, I didn'twant to associate myself with

(01:07:09):
it.
I didn't want to let her lifeand her situation live rent-free
in my head.
I was doing good, things weregreat, I was on the up and up,
and the moment that I spent evena glimpse of time thinking
about it, I immediately feltthat depression kicking in and I

(01:07:30):
immediately felt my heart sink,preparing for the hurt.
Yeah, every time, every time.
So, yeah, we got informed thatshe was on the news and
basically came, I guess.
We got the information that shewas homeless, yeah, and she was

(01:07:53):
living in the encampmentsdowntown Biddeford and she had
made some suggestions that ifshe hadn't had the people that
were there, she probably wouldhave jumped in the river.
Right Making indications thatshe would commit suicide.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
She was so when dan dan had removed himself and got
healthy, and then he made themistake of going back to help
her again to help her correct,and then the he's spent 20
something years together so hemoves out again for the final
time.
Her apartment turns into a drughouse essentially it's a party
drug house.

(01:08:39):
It's a party frat house yeah.
There's a few dudes sleeping onthe couch, whatever.
There are pop-up rooms,makeshift rooms, everywhere.
I remember going in there tomove a TV for your dad and it
was just people sleeping.
It was a drug house.
I remember going in there tomove a TV for your dad and it
was just people sleeping.
It was a drug house.
The neighbors had told youthere was people in and out
because you ended up having towork with one of our neighbors.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Yeah and they just said all hours of the night
there was constant traffic inand out, which was her selling
drugs and doing drugs, and Ihadn't seen her in a very long
time until we had seen her onthe news.
Someone had sent us the articleand I and her name had come up

(01:09:20):
and I looked at it and I waslike that's not her no way like,
uh, she's let me see 52 yearsold and looking at her on there,
she looked like she was 70 twoyears old and looking at her on
there she looked like she was 70it's crazy, she's 10 years
older than I am right, um, yeah,if you look, she loses that
place.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
She's now like on the news and a newspaper article as
well, giving an interview thatshe's living in a tent yeah, and
a homeless, you know,encampment downtown biddeford,
and now making the statementthat if it wasn't for the fellow
people in tent city, I wouldhave basically killed myself
right and she was making theseum statements of suicide your

(01:10:01):
entire life yeah, essentiallyright.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Yep, if Dan ever leaves me, I'm going to commit
suicide and I just want to bewith my dad, who died in 2004.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
I've had multiple conversations with your dad when
I was trying to help him out ofhis scenario and him saying if
I leave, she's going to killherself.
I don't want that on me, andoften people will say that to
hold people in place you know,and she did.
So it's to the point where she'sunrecognizable.
These camps get closed down andthen I know we're kind of fast

(01:10:32):
forwarding around here, but butnow she's living in the parking
lot of our local walmart and arundown camper basically for
yeah, that looks like a meth lab, exactly yeah, and I ended up
mounted up all outside of it,propane tanks all outside of it
like it's it's.
I don't know how the city letsthese things happen, but there's

(01:10:53):
a few of them over there andit's basically just a drug
addict paradise trailer parkover there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
I had run into her in Walmart and the only reason why
I recognized that it was herwas because of the rings on her
hand.
Wow.
Because the rings on her handhave been on her hand forever
and um, and they were like,there was like a mother's ring,

(01:11:22):
there was a ring from mygrandmother there I knew those
rings, yeah.
And she was holding onto thecart in the clearance rack and I
looked over I didn't recognizeher at all, but I recognized the
rings and I made a commentalong something along the lines
of don't you just love thissection?

(01:11:46):
Or something of that nature,like it was just like trying to
make conversation, because atthis point I hadn't talked to
her in over a year.
Yeah.
Hadn't talked to her and I nevershould have said anything,
because the next form ofcommunication was she found me

(01:12:07):
on Facebook and she said I ranthrough the store the entire
time looking for you because Ididn't recognize it was you.
You're a manipulator, you're anarcissist, you are a liar.
I haven't changed one bit.
The only person that haschanged in this situation is you

(01:12:28):
.
You knew it was me.
The look on your face that Iactually said something to you
looked like you had seen a ghost.
You knew it was me.
You lied to my messenger sayingthat you looked for me in the
store.
You snubbed me when I saiddon't you just like this section

(01:12:51):
?
You didn't even say anything tome.
You looked at me like you saw aghost and looked back to the
section that you were looking atand didn't say boo.
And I took that and I said,okay, you've done enough, and I
walked away.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
There was another altercation that happened at
Walmart sometime after that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Where she was, was she yelling and freaking out at
you and um yeah, she was livingin an RV and I was at the
Walmart to go and I didn't evenknow that she was living like I
had heard that she was living inan rv, but here I'm not looking

(01:13:35):
for an rv, like, not an rv,excuse me, a u-haul.

Speaker 5 (01:13:39):
I'm not a u-haul I'm not looking for a u-haul truck,
folks.
Yes she's.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
She rented the u-haul because she got kicked out of
the oh, this was right after theapartment.
This because I ran into herwhen she was in the apartment
and then she had gotten all ofher stuff out of the apartment
and moved into this rv and like,basically stole it yeah like
stole the u-haul and like it waslike called in stolen, like.

(01:14:06):
But in this amount of time, I'mpicking up my walmart to go
order and she parks directly infront of my car, gets out and
just starts losing it on me,like, first of all didn't
recognize her again, becausethis is like a little bit of
time in between, probably like acouple of months still don't

(01:14:27):
recognize you.
And all of a sudden she's justlike like I'm like sitting on my
phone waiting for my order, youknow what I mean.
And all of a sudden's just likelike I'm like sitting on my
phone waiting for my order, youknow what I mean.
And all of a sudden there'ssomeone at my window like bang,
bang, bang, you fucking piece ofshit.
Like just I don't even rememberwhat the conversation like, I
can't even like recall, but shewas so mad at me yeah and all I

(01:14:50):
said was I didn't said was Ididn't put you here.
I didn't put you.
You know I lost everything andthat's my fault.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Right, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
I didn't put the drugs in your arm.
I didn't tell you to take thedrugs.
Right, You're an addict.
Check yourself in.
And she said why?
Because that would make youfeel better.
I said, no, because you needthe help.
You're mentally not okay.

(01:15:20):
She says well, I don't evenhave any money to drive this
U-Haul anywhere.
Great, so use that last littlebit of gas and park that U-Haul
in the hospital parking lot,Walk in the emergency room and
check yourself in.
Is what I said to her.
And she said I'm not doing that.
That's all you guys want.

(01:15:41):
Yeah, we want you to get help.
Right.
That's what we want.
She stormed off, and then Ididn't, and then that's when we
had saw the news article on theyeah so after the the news thing
there's, you know again, youtry to make some distance there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
But then not too long ago another situation arises
where she's living in thisrundown rv camper scenario and
the walmart parking lot yeah anduh, you decide to try to do
something nice yeah, I had seentry to try to like.
You've distanced yourself andyou're doing what's right, but

(01:16:27):
you're trying to extend theolive branch to try to help
because you realize she needssomething, like she's in an
abusive relationship now with apiece of shit
addict you know, and he'sabusing her and you know this.
There's times where she goesmissing, like there's all this
crazy stuff so you know baby,kind of speak to that for

(01:16:52):
everybody as to like this islike the last big attempt at
trying to help.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Yeah.
So I had seen that she made apost out on social media that
she was looking for warm clothesand she was looking for
blankets and that sort of thing.
So I'm like in conversationwith her like just, and the
conversations they're light butthey're not anything like we've
ever had before.

(01:17:19):
So it's weird to me like she'sbeing nice and, of course, like
here I am like naive, holding onto the glimmer of hope.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
This could be it.
This could be it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
This could be it.
I don't know what she's doing.
I haven't talked to her, butshe's talking to me in ways
she's never talked to me beforein my life.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
For anybody out there listening that doesn't also
know at this point, she's agrandmother Of two, Two
grandkids.
She's seen Zach's baby, right,but she's never seen our little
girl I don't believe right.
No, or I don't know if shehasn't met her.
So there's a glimmer of hopethere and Dan's involved and

(01:18:03):
then maybe she sees that, maybeshe sees the light Correct.
Dan's straightened himself out.
He's involved.
Maybe this is my opportunity.
I can meet.
I, he's involved.
Maybe this is my opportunity, Ican meet.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
I'm a grandmother.
I'm a grandmother.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
Maybe that's the glimmer of hope and you're
hoping that.
Maybe this is what we need tosee her take a step.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Yeah, so I'm having conversations, light
conversations, with her.
I'm not getting into herdetails, I'm not getting into
where you're living, I'm not somuch so also.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
I don't know anything about this.
Yeah, what you're?
I'm not so much so also I don'tknow anything about this.
Yeah, because you don't want tolet me know like it's more or
less, because I didn't want toget anybody's hopes up about
yeah correct.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
So here I am just erring on the side of caution,
having these like two armslength conversations away, like
she's, you know, trying to bemanipulative in some of the
conversations, but not likeyou're the problem, this, that.
And manipulative in some of theconversations, but not like
you're the problem this, that.
And the third Like some of theconversations are just light and
I'm like, okay, well, have agreat day, like good luck, see

(01:19:01):
you later, what have you?
Like?
I'm not asking you where youare, what you're up to, I don't
want to know.
I don't want to know.
And so this goes on for alittle while.
And then all of a sudden, andthis is the dead of winter,
right, let's just put that.
This is like this last winterwe just had and I see her make a

(01:19:24):
post on social media that she'scold.
I know she's homeless.
I've seen the news article.
I don't know where you'reliving, I don't know what you're
doing, but you make a post thatyou're cold and you're looking
for warm clothes and blankets.
I make a post on a communitypage that I'm a part of and I'm
like I'm looking for warmclothes and blankets for a

(01:19:46):
family in need.
It's all I put.
I don't put anything, nobody'sname.
I even post my thing anonymousso nobody knows that it's me.
And I have like four or fivebeautiful women reach out to me
that are like I have blankets, Ihave coats, I have mittens, I
have hats.
I go and collect all thesethings and I message her when

(01:20:08):
are you?
I have some blankets and I havejackets and all kinds of things
.
She tells me I'm staying in thecamper in Walmart and I'm not
there.
Right now I'm at Seeds of Hopegetting a warm meal, which
there's a local warming stationin Biddeford and you can go

(01:20:31):
there and they feed you threemeals a day for complete free.
And so she said she's there.
She said just open the door andset my stuff in there.
This is just before Christmas.
Well, christmas comes and goesand I've been having everyday
conversations with her, lightconversations.
Christmas goes by no message,no message, no message.

(01:20:53):
A week goes by nothing, nomessage.
Hey, did you get the blankets?
Hey, did you get the jackets?
Nothing, no response.
No, red, no, nothing.
And I'm like okay, so then Ibring it up to you.
So listen, hey, this is what'shappening, this is what's going
on.
I have been talking to her.
I'm concerned that she might bedead somewhere.

(01:21:14):
That's the conversation that Ihave with you.
I'm really worried.
I know, based on theconversation that she's had with
me, that she's not in a verygood relationship.
She has been seen with a fewshiners.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Family members have reported you.
They've seen her on the buswith a black eye or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
I haven't seen any of it yet.
But at this point I'm like, I'mconcerned.
So I start looking around, Istart calling the jail, I start
calling the hospital, I startcalling people around, I don't
know.
I know that there is thisgentleman that works at the
local bus station, that givesthem bus tickets so that they
can go back and forth to seedsof hope.
I reach out to him and he thisis like a week or so after

(01:22:01):
christmas, and so at this pointit's two weeks after I've
dropped everything off and Ihaven't heard anything and this
gentleman tells me she is aliveafter he looks for her correct
because the first time you callhim and he's like I haven't seen
him, haven't seen him, yeahyeah.
So he calls me back a couple ofdays later and was like I found
them, they are, she's alive.

(01:22:22):
And I said is she okay?
And he responded with she has ablack eye.
Yeah, um, and then a few dayslater he sees them, tells them
hey, listen, your, yourdaughter's trying to reach you.
You gotta reach out to her.
Um and uh.

(01:22:42):
So I get another facebookmessage.
I don't know how, I don't knowhow, but what she says to me is
that my phone was stolen.
My phone was stolen and that'swhy I haven't been able to talk
to you.
But once I start getting intothe conversation with her, she
doesn't remember her liesbecause she's high.
Then she tells me that herphone was broken and the truth

(01:23:06):
starts coming out.
I tell her I know you have ashiner, I know you have a shiner
, someone's told me and they'veseen you.
And she tells me that shetripped over a shoe getting out
of the bed and hit her eye onthe corner.
Like, I know these lies.

(01:23:27):
You did this when I was younger.
You fell down the stairs, youbumped your head.
I was younger, you fell downthe stairs, you bumped your head
.
I know these.
It's unfortunate, becausehere's just another round of you
being manipulated as you'vemanipulated us.
So right around the time thatshe finally starts to message me

(01:24:08):
back, she sends me a message.
A couple of days had gone byand then, january 6th, she sent
me a message and said I'm done,I can't do this anymore.
I love you, go, be happy.
So these conversations happenall the time.
She's dramatic and talks likethis and I literally just said

(01:24:33):
to her not very nice, because Ireread the message enough with
the drama what are you talkingabout?
Because if you're just tellingme that you're cutting me out of

(01:24:54):
your life again, okay, but theway that I'm reading into this
message, you're making it soundlike you're about to just end
your life.
Not only did I receive thatmessage, but three other people
received that message.
My Aunt Janine received thatsame message.
She calls me immediately andsays have you heard from Angel?
Do you know what's going on?

(01:25:14):
She just sent me a message andthis is what she said.
And I said she sent me the samemessage.
I can't make sense of it.
She said do you know where sheis?
I said I do know where she is.
I'm getting off of work here inabout 20 minutes and I'll head
over there.
She says well, I'm sure thepolice will meet you there.
And I said what are you talkingabout?
And she said I called thepolice because I'm worried and I

(01:25:37):
want her to do a welfare check.
And the last known place that Iknew she was was Walmart
parking lot.
Last known place that I knewshe was was Walmart parking lot
and that's where I sent them.
And I said well, that's whereshe is.
And so what I had done was Ihad left work and drove right
over to the Walmart.
When I got there there was twoofficers there and she had
barricaded herself in the camperand was refusing to come out.

(01:26:01):
But the only one that was outthere was her deadbeat boyfriend
, who was fucked up.
I I can tell you that his drugof choice was cocaine and and
meth, and I can put money on thefact that he had her addicted
to the same thing yeah.

(01:26:23):
So he's stumbling all overhimself, he's yelling and
swearing at the officer.
He's so belligerent that hedoesn't even realize that I have
pulled up directly next to them.
I blow my door open and I saidDustin, this shit isn't about

(01:26:45):
you.
He turned his head around soquick and I tell you what, if
the officer wasn't there, Iwould have dropped him like a
bad fucking habit.
The amount of anger that I hadbased on the stupidity, the
amount of anger that I had ingeneral.
And he got in my face and saidwho the fuck are you?

(01:27:07):
And I looked at him and I saidthis isn't about you.
This is about her in thatcamper who's about to commit
suicide and you're not going tostand in the way.
Who the fuck do you think youare?
Well, I said to him I'm aboutthe one, I'm about the only one
that's about to lay you on yourfucking ass if you don't get out

(01:27:29):
of my face.
And the officer was like whoa,whoa.
And I was like this isn't aboutyou.
And he one of the officers tookme aside and he's talking to
Dustin and he says so, who,trying to get to know like, who
am I?
Why am I there?
And I'm explaining to him.
This is the message that I got.

(01:27:50):
And he said perfect, this isthe message.
This is why we're here.
And I said so what now?
I know she has an activewarrant.
She's not supposed to be herein this parking lot.
Are you going to arrest her, orare we going to do the right
thing and bring her to thehospital to be admitted for a
psych evaluation Because shewants to commit suicide?
She's high, clearly he is.

(01:28:11):
Look at him.
He's all over the place.
And the officer looked at me andsaid at this moment in time, I
can't do anything.
I said what do you mean youcan't do anything?
I said what do you mean youcan't do anything?
I have the messages on my phoneand he says well, let me read
the message.
He reads the message and hesays you and I know what that

(01:28:32):
means.
She didn't come out and say thatshe's going to commit suicide.
That could mean that could thatcould be scripted.
It could be like I just wantyou out of my life and I said so
.
Now what?
You guys are just going to walkaway and leave her in there and
let, and I said so.
Now what?
You guys are just going to walkaway and leave her in there and
let.
He says I don't know if she'sin there.
And I said, oh, she's in there,she's in there, I know she's in
there.
And he was like, if I can getpermission, that she's in there.

(01:28:53):
Meanwhile I'm having aconversation with the officers.
Dustin goes back in the campertrying to talk her off the ledge
to come outside.
Goes back in the camper tryingto talk her off the ledge to
come outside.
This motherfucker walks outside, closes the door and says she's
not coming out.
I looked at the officer and Igo there, you go.
That dumb ass just gave it awayseriously I was like you can go

(01:29:15):
in.
Now he's like, yeah, you'reright, I can, but I'm not going
to.
What do you mean you're notgoing to?
What are we waiting on?
Are we waiting for her to justblow her brains out?
And we hear it outside, likewhat are you doing here, I am
boiling.
You just got confirmation,she's in there.

(01:29:37):
You just got confirmation thatshe wants to commit suicide and
you're just standing here.
You have an active warrant.
You know she's in there.
You have every right to go inthere.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
She's trespassing.
She was arrested at walmart.
She's not supposed to be atwalmart, correct?

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
so finally, dustin goes inside and gets her to come
out.
The officer says to her I'm notarresting you, I don't care
about your, your petty warrant,because I know that if you get
arrested, cuffed and stuffedtoday, they're going to release
you tomorrow.
So I don't really care aboutthat.
What I care about is yougetting help and going to the

(01:30:14):
hospital.
That's what I want.
I want you to get to thehospital and get evaluated.
So she comes blowing out thedoor and she sees I'm there.
All hell broke loose.
Fuck, you, get out of here, youpiece of shit.
You did this to me.
You abandoned me.

(01:30:34):
You cut ties.
You won't let me see mygrandkids.
Me, me, me, me, me, me.
You're the victim, you're thevictim, you're the victim.
Narcissistic behavior everyfucking time.
And here it is.

(01:30:54):
I had a glimmer of hope.
I thought you were doing theright thing.
You were having greatconversations with me.
I thought you, based on theconversations we had, I thought
there might've been a chancethat you might've actually
listened to me to go to rehab.
I thought there might've been achance and nope, you pushed me

(01:31:21):
away and told me how you reallyfelt.
This is my fault.
This is my fault that you arean addict because my brother and
I disowned you, because wepushed you away to keep our
hearts and family safe.
It's our fault that you're inthis camper in the Walmart

(01:31:44):
parking lot doing meth andcocaine and drinking every day.
That's my fault.

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
That's mind-blowing that the city, that law
enforcement can't do anythingabout this, because this is one
of many when it comes to thesestories, these, these
encampments, these, you know,transients living in campers and
stuff and parking lots.
This stuff is happening allover the country and they could
put a stop to some of that shit,but they just don't.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
They just don't yeah so, um, I said to the officer
I'm I'm not trying to make thesituation worse.
I only stopped by here to makesure that she got the help that
she needed.
I'm genuinely concerned.
I didn't even call you.
I'm not the one that called you.
I just want to know that she'sgoing to get the help that she

(01:32:36):
needs, and I don't think that mebeing here is going to make
anything better.
It's only going to provoke her.
And so I got in my car and Ileft.
The detective took myinformation and said I'll circle
back with you and let you knowwhat's going on.
And so I drove around theparking lot and I drove far

(01:32:59):
enough away that I could stillsee what was going on.
But I couldn't.
She couldn't see me and Iwatched her throw a fit piss and
moan cuss.
What have you?
The officer said before I droveaway Angel, I'm not arresting
you, I'm going to just be yourtaxi service to the hospital.

(01:33:22):
We're going to walk in, you'regoing to go in, be admitted, get
help you need and you can leave.
You can leave, but I'm notgoing to arrest you on some
petty warrant.
I'm not going to do it.
And I thanked him for that.
I said because as much as Iwould love for her to get away

(01:33:45):
from Dustin, maybe withdraw alittle bit in a jail cell, maybe
that was going to be enough tosnap her out of it.
I knew that what she reallyneeded was help, and throwing
her in a jail cell may not havehelped her, but maybe it would
have.
I don't really know.

(01:34:08):
So I get a phone call later onthat day from the crisis worker
at the hospital and he'sexplaining to me what is
happening.
And I'm going to tell you what.
I was not nice to this manBecause the shit that he is

(01:34:29):
telling me.
I'm baffled, baffled by whatthis crisis worker is telling me
.
He's telling me that she'sgoing to get out because she's a
manipulator.
She's going to tell me anythingand everything I want to hear
and she doesn't need a psychevaluation.

(01:34:51):
I said as a crisis worker, youshould be able to see through
her bullshit and realize thatshe needs help.
She just threatened to commitsuicide.
I was like I want her bluepapered.
And if you don't know what bluepapered is, blue papered means
that law enforcement or familymembers can call the hospital

(01:35:14):
that they're in or lawenforcement can put the blue
papered on.
I don't know if it's anywhereelse called blue papered, here
it is.
And basically what that meansis that the person needs a psych
evaluation, needs to be furtherevaluated and then go before a
judge.
The judge then makes thedecision on whether or not that
person is sane enough to returnto society right or needs

(01:35:40):
further evaluation, needsfurther treatment, needs to be
admitted to a psych ward, needsa rehab, needs something.
And he basically just laughedit off, basically did not take
me seriously.
And I said to him she's anaddict, she is homeless and

(01:36:02):
she's trying to commit suicide.
I'm begging you to please bluepaper her for her own, for her
own good.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
Yeah, this could be her last opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
This is her last chance.
And he said I'll see what I cando and I'll call you back.
Just like that he didn't callme back.
So instead I called thehospital myself, because I work
for this hospital, I know theprocess, I know what it takes
and I know what to do.
I called the emergencydepartment and I said listen, I

(01:36:40):
don't want you to talk to meabout the situation.
I'm not on her record.
I'm her daughter.
I'm her daughter.
I'm genuinely concerned.
This is why she's here.
She was brought to you by thepolice because she made comments
about wanting to commit suicideand I want her blue papered.
Please, for the love of God,I'm begging you to please blue

(01:37:01):
paper her.
The nurse took me seriously andshe said okay, I hear you.
I don't understand why thatwasn't done yesterday.
And I told her that I talked tothe crisis team and he laughed
at me like I was some sort ofjoke, that I didn't know what I

(01:37:21):
was talking about.
But the moment that I told himthat I worked for the company,
he changed his tune and said letme see what I can do.
So at that moment that nursetook me seriously and she was
taken from a standard room inthe emergency room to a cell

(01:37:47):
behind closed, locked closeddoors in the emergency room.
Where she is in there withpaper, johnny, that she cannot
hurt herself.
She can't talk to anybody onthe phone, can't do anything.
She is in a cell by herself.

(01:38:08):
And I called the lady back and Iasked her.
I said can you tell me whatthis was?
The next day, I said can youtell me what's going on?
And she said she's blue papered.
The sigh of relief that I gotat that moment it it's like okay
, this might be it.
I know that blue papering meansthat she's going to be in there

(01:38:32):
for three to four days and thenshe'll go before a judge.
Even if she has the ability tomanipulate the staff, she's not
going to be able to manipulate ajudge.
Right, the judge is going tosee through her bullshit and
they're going to say no, thislady needs help.

(01:38:52):
And I, that night, I I prayedand I prayed and I said please,
please, let her get the helpthat she needs, because I want

(01:39:12):
her to get clean and sober.
And I knew that this might justbe the glimpse of hope that
I've been holding on to, that.
This might be it that I've beenholding on to, that.
This might be it.
A couple days went by.
I called back, talked to thesame lady and she said to me I'm

(01:39:39):
sorry.
I said what do you mean?
You're sorry?
Wait a minute, hold on.
What do you mean?
Mean you're sorry?
Wait a minute, hold on.
What do you mean?
Not you're sorry?
She said they discharged her,she manipulated the system, she
pissed and moaned and explainedto them that she was fine and

(01:40:03):
this was all Mine and mybrother's fault and that she was
fine.
She just needed to distanceherself from us.
Once again she puts it on usthat we're the problem.

(01:40:26):
And I said to the lady I saidwhat do you mean?
She just came to you becauseshe was going to commit suicide
and you just let her out.
She's blue paper.
I know what that means.
I work for the hospital.
Did she go before a judge?
She said no.

(01:40:47):
She said I held strong on it.
I heard what you had to say andI took that to the psych
provider and let them know thatyou guys are genuinely concerned
.

(01:41:09):
And she manipulated the systemand they let her out and then
from that moment on, probablytill recently, I didn't know
where she was.
She had blocked us on allsocial media because she said

(01:41:30):
this was our fault.
She knew that my aunt janinehad called the police because my
aunt janine tried to call her,and at the hospital and they
told her that my Aunt Janine wason the phone and she said some
very hurtful things Not on thephone, but my aunt could hear

(01:41:52):
every single thing that she wassaying and she knew that I was
there when the police got there.
So again, she thinks this wasme.
She thinks I did this all bymyself and that's fine, I have
broad shoulders.
But I knew that I was doingwhat was right and I was trying
to get her the help that sheneeded and the help that she

(01:42:13):
deserved.
So just a couple of weeks ago Ihad run into her again and I was
coming home from work and shewas walking across the street,

(01:42:39):
looking like hell.
Looking across the street,looking like hell Bleach, blonde
hair, like she had just dyed itin the sink with a bottle of
bleach, straight skin and bones,like a true addict.

(01:43:06):
I drove past her but somethinginside of me told me to turn
around, and I did, and I pulledup beside her.

(01:43:43):
And I did, and I pulled upbeside her and I didn't know if
she was dead or alive.
And she said to me we're hiding, we don't need you, we don't
want you to know where we're at.

(01:44:05):
The only thing that I'm worriedabout right now is my fiance
laying up in a hospital bed onlife support.
And I said that's the onlything you're worried about.
And she says yes, you guys wantto keep my grandkids from me.

(01:44:26):
That's fine, I don't need you.
Once again, this whole situationright back on me, right, and
here I am, turning aroundbecause something in my heart
said turning around, becausesomething in my heart said don't

(01:44:49):
drive by, don't drive by, turnaround.
And all I remember is her justsaying you want to keep my

(01:45:12):
grandkids from me.
Fuck you, fuck you.
I said you will never, ever seemy daughter or be a part of her
life Ever.
If you're going to be high, ifyou're going to choose addiction

(01:45:37):
over us, I will never let yoube a part of her life.
I will never let you hurt herlike you hurt me.
And she walked away and saidFuck you, allison, fuck you.
And I drove away.

(01:45:58):
It's been months.
I didn't know whether she wasalive or not.
I happened to run into herbecause I was coming home,
coming home from work, and shewas crossing right in front of

(01:46:18):
me.
Would I have stayed at work acouple minutes longer?
Would I have seen her?
No.
Would I have put myself work acouple minutes longer?
Would I have seen her?
No.
Would I have put myself in thissituation?
No.
But I truly believe thateverything happens for a reason.
Addiction's hard, and it's hardon the family more than it's on

(01:46:50):
the person doing the drugs,because they don't feel it.
Everything they're doing ismasked.
They don't feel no pain,everything is perfect in their
world.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Everything revolves around the next fix.
That's all that matters.

Speaker 1 (01:47:20):
When am I going to get high?
Where am I going to get it?

Speaker 2 (01:47:24):
I think that fate puts you on that road so that
when am I going to get high?
Where am I going to get it?
And I think that, as much as ithurts, that conversation I

(01:47:48):
think should just heal thingsfor you, knowing that you did
all you could do, she made everydecision she wanted to make and
when it comes right down to it,you should be very proud of the
fact that you stood up for yourdaughter and you protected her,
because you know what you'vebeen through and what she would

(01:48:11):
have to go through yeah it'sbeen a fear for us as to what
life would be like for her.
If you know, she was involved inher life, like knowing that she
was living in the parking lotat walmart.
I always questioned when Iwould go to the store, like what
am I supposed to do?
How am I supposed to act onyour behalf if she tries to come

(01:48:36):
over to right, you know, totalk to the baby, and stuff like
that.
I think that that you as muchit sucks.
You needed to have thatconversation to realize that
nothing's changed, nothing'sgoing to change, the priorities
are still the same, and realizethat you've done everything you
possibly could do.

(01:48:56):
Yeah.
I know that for quite some timeyou have been preparing for what
you feel was inevitable.

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
Yeah, I've constantly found myself preparing to
receive a phone call that she'soverdosed, knowing how deep she
is in her addiction and how badher fiancé that came up just
days ago, how that, how bad hisaddiction was, that fed to her

(01:49:53):
Right.
Um, because, to be completelyhonest with you, I don't think
it would have been as bad if shewouldn't have gotten tied up
with him.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
Sure, she had her own demons and she I think he
escalated what the level ofdrugs were.
That she could get access to.
Yeah, because his level ofdrugs were higher than what she
was ever doing.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
As far as we know, he's on life support in a
hospital today.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
He has been on life support for the last month due
to drugs, alcohol and seizures,and I know that to be certain,
and so I had to have aconversation with my brother
about this situation.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
You had multiple family members Come to you and
tell you this is the situation,because they find Angel on a bus
, correct, run into her at thestore.

Speaker 1 (01:50:52):
And that's the reason why I had run into her Leaving
my work, because I work near thehospital.

Speaker 2 (01:50:58):
So it's confirmed by everybody around, correct, this
is a scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:51:03):
Absolutely yeah.
So it is confirmed that he isstill on life support.
And so I had a conversationwith my brother just this past
weekend.
He reached out to me and saidhey, have you heard from Angel?
Do you know what's going on?
And I said I don't have muchinformation.
I don't know where she is.

(01:51:24):
I know she was stayingsomewhere in Old Orchard Beach,
but I don't know where and herboyfriend, fiance, is on life
support.
That's all I know.
And he said, okay, we left itat that.
The next day I had.
He said, okay, we left it atthat.

(01:51:46):
The next day he had called meagain and we had had a
conversation again.
And I said I want to be verytransparent with you and I want
to be very brutally honest.
This is not going to be an easyconversation or not.
A conversation I want to havewith you, but I want you to be
prepared.

(01:52:06):
The fact that if somethinghappens to Dustin, I truly
believe that she's going tooverdose and take her own life.
He didn't seem to think thatthat was going to happen, and
good for him.

Speaker 2 (01:52:25):
I know I was also of the thinking of your brother
that I was hopeful, that and I'mnot hoping for someone's demise
, I'm not like hoping thatDustin were to die, no, of
course not.
My thought was much like yourbrother and I'm not speaking for
him.
But my thought and I said toyou is, hey, if Dustin actually
doesn't make it, maybe thisscares her straight, like maybe

(01:52:48):
this is what it takes for her torealize like, wow, he was, just
we were doing the same shit andnow he's not here and it scared
her straight.
I was of that mindset and soI'm assuming your brother was
thinking much like I was, thatmaybe this would scare her
straight.
But your intuition was differentbecause you felt completely

(01:53:09):
different, based off of theinteractions and as well as you
know her 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:53:15):
I hoped that was going to be the case.
However, I'm a realist and I'vebeen hurt too many times and I
have heard the threats of herwanting to commit suicide so
many times, and I'm just lookingat the big picture here.
She has lost everything.

(01:53:36):
She claims that her childrenhave walked away from her and
abandoned her, not looking atthe big picture of what she did
to us.

Speaker 2 (01:53:46):
Right?
Of course not.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
And now we're keeping her grandkids from her and her
fiance is on life support.
Here's the facts.
Okay, I'm not trying tosugarcoat things at this point.
I'm being a realist and I'mlike listen, take this
information how you want and howyou want to dissect it, flip it
.
I'm being a realist and I'mlike listen, take this
information how you want and howyou want to dissect it, flip it

(01:54:07):
, I don't care.
I want you to know.
This is my thought process onthis.
I hope and I pray that I'mwrong.
I hope and I pray that I'mwrong, but this is my thought
process and I think you and Ineed to have this conversation
and we had that conversation.
You and I need to have thisconversation and we had that

(01:54:29):
conversation.
He was looking at the situationone way and I was looking at it
a different way, and neitherone of us are wrong for thinking
either way.
No, of course not.
We both have differentrelationships with her and
that's why it's okay for both ofus to feel this way.
So the weekend passes, we have,you know, easter.

(01:54:57):
Things are great.
Don't hear from anybody.
I go to work on Monday and I'msitting in my office and my
watch is dinging like bing, bing, bing.
I'm like what is that?
I'm looking around my officelike what is that noise?

(01:55:20):
My phone goes on work mode whenI immediately get to work, oh
yeah.
And so the only people that canactually contact me are people
that are in my favorites and youcan contact me if I'm on Do Not
Disturb.
But at the very bottom it'llsay notify me anyway.
And I kept getting bing, bing,bing.

(01:55:46):
Like what is this?
So I pick up my phone and Iunlock it.
I have six missed calls, ton oftext messages.
Call me, it's an emergency.
Call me from a friend.
We talk here and there, nothingnot on the daily.

(01:56:16):
But then I get a phone callfrom somebody that I don't even
talk to, I don't even ride with.
We are on totally oppositespectrums of the world, like I'd
love to just punch you in themouth.
Let's just be frank.
Okay, I get a phone call fromsomeone else that explains to me

(01:56:39):
well, let me back up.
So I get a phone call from afriend that breaks some news to
me, following by another personthat I don't ride with,
explaining the same information.
So the phone call went a littlesomething like this this hey, I

(01:57:16):
just wanted to let you know.
Unfortunately, angel was foundthis morning in a motel room.
She took her own life byoverdosing.
She took her own life byoverdosing.
The phone call that I dreaded,this entire process prepared

(01:57:39):
myself for, but I guess I wasn'tready for.
But I guess I wasn't ready for.
And at that moment I said waitwhat she said.

(01:58:00):
I'm so sorry.
I know you don't have the bestrelationship with her, but the
motel, they have just gotten incontact with this person that I
can't stand and they're lookingfor your contact information.
That's what this my friend hadtold me and I said okay, I have

(01:58:25):
to call my brother.
No, sooner did I hang up with myfriend, did this girl call me?
And with no respect did she sayto me so did you hear?
Did she say to me so did youhear?

(01:58:47):
And I said who is this?
I knew who it was and she saidthis is so-and-so and I said
yeah, I heard.
She says all right, just wantsto make sure you knew.

(01:59:08):
I said do you want to tell mewhy you are there and why you're
the one telling me, hangs upthe phone on me, doesn't want to
tell me anything?
I just want to paint a littlepicture here for you this girl
that I do not ride with.
I do not, can't stand.
The girl has been going aroundtown for years talking shit

(01:59:34):
about Angel.
Does not like her, does not,can't stand her Knows I can't
stand this girl and I want toknow why she's the one calling
me to tell me that Angel hastaken her own life.

(02:00:00):
I don't have the answers.
Immediately after I got off thatphone call office with my door

(02:00:35):
closed, pissed, and all I keptsaying was fuck you.
Fuck you for doing this to me,fuck you for hurting me one last
time, because if you could havestood in front of me and done
it, you would have said that tome.
You would have said fuck you.

(02:00:55):
That's what you would have done, because that's what you did to
my face.
You told me just that and this,right here you taking your own
life and forcing my brother andI to pick up the pieces, is a
fuck you to me.
One last time.

(02:01:16):
You did it.
I hope that's what you wanted.
I hope that's what you wanted.
I hope and I pray that youdidn't feel it.
I hope it was quick and youdidn't suffer, and I hope, now

(02:01:42):
that you're not in any pain.
You can join your dad rightwhere you want to be and you're
not fighting these demonsanymore.
Meanwhile, I'll be here to pickup the pieces and stand beside
my brother, as I have thisentire time of my life

(02:02:03):
protecting him once again,because you couldn't do it, here
I am, I got this, I've had thisall along and I'll continue to
be his rock.

(02:02:34):
This is not easy.
I've constantly found myselfsaying that it would be that
getting the phone call, knowingthat she was, that she had
passed, would be easier, becauseI wouldn't be wondering and I

(02:02:58):
wouldn't be hurting, scared onwhere she is, what she's up to
if she's hurt.
What I didn't realize is all ofthe anger and all of the hurt

(02:03:22):
that surfaced during thisprocess, hurt that surface
during this process, all of thisanger that I have just bottled
up inside and put away, becauseI have a life to live and I
refuse to let her live rent-freein my head anymore.

(02:03:43):
I refuse to let her takecontrol and manipulate me and my
life.
This has definitely been.
A lot of emotions have come up.

(02:04:07):
The hardest one to understandis that I'm not sad.
I'm not sad that she's gone,for the reasonings that I said

(02:04:27):
just a couple moments ago.
She's not hurting.
She wanted this.
She wanted to be with her dad.
She's been fighting thesedemons in her head for years.
She just didn't know how to goout.

(02:04:51):
This was her way of closing thechapter on her life Closing the
book, I should say Not even achapter.
I have a hard time looking atoverdoses and not categorizing
them as suicide.
To me, my mother committedsuicide.

(02:05:25):
Mother Committed suicide.
She knew what she was doing.
I truly believe this waspremeditated and if this was her
time to go and this is what shewanted, then so be it.

(02:05:49):
But I have a hard time notlooking at overdoses as suicide,
and that's my way of looking atit.
I'm not asking anyone else tolook at this situation in that

(02:06:10):
way, shape or form, but I can'tjustify what she did as an
accident.
This was her choice.

Speaker 2 (02:06:27):
I agree completely with you.
I think that we often read orhear about overdoses and they
don't get classified as suicideor you don't look at it as a
suicide because maybe it wassomebody that was like a casual
drug user and they got intosomething that was, you know,

(02:06:51):
more than they can handle.
But I'm not making an excuseand I'm not justifying or
defending a drug user.
I'm not doing that.
But I'm just saying sometimespeople might be casual and they
get something that's laced orsomething.
That's not what the situationis.
This is essentially a lifelongdrug user.
The majority of her life was asa drug user who has threatened

(02:07:16):
suicide multiple times.
This was the easiest way out,because I think that my
assumption would be that sheplanned it.
Much like you're saying thatI'm just going to get so high
that I don't have to return, andI think that there's probably
been times where she's done thisbefore, but just was surprised

(02:07:38):
that she made it.

Speaker 1 (02:07:38):
Yeah, why am I still here?
Why am I still here?

Speaker 2 (02:07:41):
I think that suicide is the most cowardly thing that
anybody can do, because maybe itends your story when you feel
like your story should end, butyou rob everybody else of your
true story.
You leave everybody behind topick up the pieces to deal with

(02:08:03):
it and ultimately you came intothis earth.
The Lord gave you a gift andyou were here to share your gift
, and if you end that story toosoon, then you snuffed out your
gift and your opportunity tomake an impact on this world,
and I just think that suicide isincredibly selfish.

(02:08:24):
I went to one funeral in my lifewhere my cousin committed
suicide and I remember mourninguntil I got there and then, when
I got there, I had thisoverwhelming sense of anger.
Like my whole body got hot, myface got hot and I was just
pissed and I was like, why arewe here celebrating you?
You did this like you causedthis, like this was you, this

(02:08:44):
this was you, this was yourdecision.
You said screw you to the restof us.
And I have a hard timecelebrating suicide and I have a
hard time not looking atoverdoses as suicide, especially
when you're a lifelong druguser that knows what the hell

(02:09:05):
you're doing.
So I agree with you completelyand I know that today's show has
been a long, difficult show,but we share this and you've
been bold enough and transparentenough to share this.

Speaker 1 (02:09:46):
You've been bold enough and transparent enough to
share this, hoping that ifAngel wasn't able to finish her
story, if she ended her book toosoon and she did not get to
fulfill or live her purpose,that maybe you, having the
courage to speak her story intoexistence, that maybe her legacy
could be that her story savedsomebody else.
I can only hope, and I can onlyhope that if you're in a
situation where, similar to whatI was in, where you're
constantly being manipulated, Ibeg you to please be strong.
I beg you to please be strong.
It's okay to set boundaries andit's okay to walk away and let

(02:10:08):
them deal with the demons, butit's more important for you to
protect yourself and protectyour heart, because if you can't
protect yourself, you can'tprotect anybody else and they're
not going to protect you.

Speaker 2 (02:10:27):
There's a great lesson here in the fact that you
getting out of this situation,you have built a tremendous life
for yourself when you couldhave been most likely would have
been a part of the statisticmost likely would have been a
part of the statistic, had youstayed in this situation, you

(02:10:48):
very likely could have had awhole different story.
You having the strength toremove yourself from this
situation and do what you did,you rewarded yourself with an
amazing life and a family ofyour own.
I truly believe you removingyourself and being the adult and
doing these things alsoinspired your father to do the

(02:11:11):
same thing, and he's living adifferent life and he's
fulfilling a different purpose.

Speaker 1 (02:11:19):
I honestly believe that my strength rubbed off on
my brother, that my strengthrubbed off on my brother.
I think that he has done anamazing job at forming a life
for himself, but he was alsomanipulated.
And he also could be, couldhave been another statistic as

(02:11:41):
well.

Speaker 2 (02:11:41):
It takes one person to be strong enough to make the
decision, to make the commitment, to take the plunge, to be the
difference.
I truly feel like you were thecatalyst for your family in
making change.
I want you to know, as I lookyou in the eyes, and tell you
that I'm proud of you not onlyfor sharing your story.

(02:12:01):
I'm proud of you for being thecatalyst, for being the change.
I wholeheartedly believe thatif you weren't the one to make
the change, I don't know whatthe story is for the entire
family.
You have a different story, Ifeel.
Your father has a differentstory and your brother has a
different story.
They all write their ownchapters, they all put in their

(02:12:24):
own work, but you were the onethat started the positive
movement.
You need to be thankful andgrateful and count your
blessings that you had apositive effect that could have
potentially saved two of them.
You can't look back at Angeland her decisions and hold an
ounce of responsibility, becausethere's proof in the pudding

(02:12:47):
that everybody chooses their ownactions and write their own
destiny.
By you being bold enough andstrong enough to step out and do
what you did, we can hope andthink and inspire others, and
sharing your story today canhopefully inspire somebody that
if you're listening and you'rein one of these situations, if
you're holding on to arelationship, if you're holding

(02:13:09):
on to a friendship because youfeel like if you leave,
someone's going to hurtthemselves, that's no way to
live your life.
It's going to take your lifeand ultimately, they're not
going to change their own life.
Ultimately, they're not goingto change their own life.
If someone makes the decision toend their life, regardless of
what you do and say, it ain'tgoing to make the difference.
You can do all these things.

(02:13:29):
You might prolong some things,but true change comes from
within.
If you're not willing to change, you are not going to change.
If you stick around praying andhoping and begging someone to
change, eventually you're goingto be the one that changes, but
for the wrong reason.
You're going to change forchange.
Eventually you're going to bethe one that changes, but for
the wrong reason.
You're going to change for theworse, because you're not
prioritizing yourself.
Be the change, be the light.

(02:13:51):
Get yourself out of thesituation and hopefully you can
inspire somebody else.
You have the opportunity to bethe mother that you always
prayed you would have.

Speaker 1 (02:14:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:14:11):
And I truly think, when we sprinkle time and
distance on something and welook back at something as much
as we thought we were going tohave a little boy, we had the
beautiful little girl that weneeded, and I think that this
shows you even more that this ispart of fulfilling your mission

(02:14:32):
, your life's purpose.
This completes the circle, thismakes your life whole.
By doing what's right, byrighting the wrongs with your
own daughter, what's right, byrighting the wrongs with your
own daughter and, ultimately,whatever the relationship is
that you have had with Angel,you can right those wrongs and

(02:14:57):
change the statistics right now,and by sharing what you did,
maybe her story can changesomebody else's and maybe this
episode can be a catalyst forchange for someone else, for
some other family, and that'sthe reason why you sat here and
bared your soul today.

Speaker 1 (02:15:19):
Yeah, I want to be the strength that maybe somebody
doesn't have, because I was 12years old and had to find the
strength on my own because noone would listen to me.
Something deep down inside saidthis is not okay.
Be strong and move forward.
And I want that strength tocome through this episode and be

(02:15:45):
that strength that you need tomove forward and make the change
.

Speaker 2 (02:15:52):
That's all I can do.
Yeah, if you're somebody outthere that's struggling with
addiction, maybe this story, thepain and the heartache, could
be something that motivates youto make a change, to make a
difference.
There's strength in this storytoday that can show you that you

(02:16:12):
can recover.
There's strength in here aboutsomebody changing their life and
recovering.
There's strength in here aboutpeople removing themselves from
a situation and getting better,and there's also the fear and
reality of remaining in asituation and what your final
outcome could be.
If we don't encourage you tochange with positivity, then

(02:16:34):
hopefully we can motivate youwith fear and reality.
There's a better way to liveand we're all here to listen.
If someone's struggling, reachout.
We're always here to help and Ifsomeone's struggling, reach out
.
We're always here to help andto talk and to figure things out
.
There's plenty of resources outthere, but if we could be a
resource for anybody, theneither one of us absolutely

(02:16:55):
would be and would be more thanhappy to try to be a support
system for someone looking tochange Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (02:17:06):
It's always important to have that support system.
Whether you are addicted orwhether you are the family of
someone who's addicted, makesure that your support group is
very strong and has your back.
And it doesn't have to befamily.
It can be friend, it can be ateacher, it can be a coworker,
it can be.
It doesn't matter.
Just make sure that you have asupport system and you're taking

(02:17:29):
care of yourself before youtake care of anybody else.

Speaker 2 (02:17:33):
That's important there's another lesson in here
today that I'm realizing, andthat is that if other people are
pushing for you to get help,they're gonna be met with
resistance.
The system will fail them, lawenforcement will fail them, the

(02:17:54):
health care system will failthem.
But if you are bold enough andstrong enough to ask for help
yourself and demand help, youwill get help you will get help.
You will get help.
Yep, well, I know that we'vegone way longer than we've
expected, we've said way morethan we planned, but, like we

(02:18:16):
said to each other and we turnedthe microphone on is, we'll
just see where this takes youand you get everything off your
chest and hopefully that, bybearing your soul, you feel
better and it helps someone.
And I just got to say to you,much like I did to start the
show I'm incredibly proud of youfor having the strength, the
courage to share your story andto let it live on forever.

(02:18:40):
So I'm proud of you, I love you, and there's a little girl in
the next room that is proud ofyou.
I love you.
And, um, there's a little girlin the next room that is proud
of you and loves you too.

Speaker 1 (02:18:48):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate that Now it's timeto go to Reiki and heal this
shit.

Speaker 2 (02:18:54):
That's right, I'm going to change, um, the ending
of our show a little bit today.
Um, as much as I had adifficult relationship with
Angel and I can only imagine andfathom the relationship that
you had If we try to turn thisinto a positive, then maybe your

(02:19:17):
story can be a difference,maybe Angel's life can change
somebody else's, so maybe, justmaybe, that was her American
dream.
Maybe, so thank you forsupporting Angel's American

(02:19:40):
Dream.
That's it and that's all BiggieSmalls.
If you're a loud, proudAmerican and you find yourself

(02:20:05):
just wanting more, find me onYouTube and Facebook at loud,
proud American, for the facepage, as my mama calls it.
If you're a fan of the GrahamCracker, want to find me on
Instagram or all the kids bytickety-talking on the TikTok,
you can find me on both of thoseat loud, underscore, proud,

(02:20:27):
underscore, american.
A big old thank you to the boysfrom the Gut Truckers for the
background beats and the themesong for this year's podcast.
If you are enjoying what you'rehearing, you can track down the

(02:20:47):
Gut Truckers for the backgroundbeats and the theme song for
this year's podcast.
If you are enjoying what you'rehearing, you can track down the
Gut Truckers on Facebook.
Just search Gut Truckers.
Give them motherfuckers a liketoo.

(02:21:13):
I truly thank you forsupporting my American dream.
Now go wash your fucking hands,you filthy savage.

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