November 26, 2025 • 21 mins
Can spending money actually build your long-term wealth? Sharesies says yes.
Scott Nixon, GM Sharesies Personal, and Ruth Riviere, Country Manager for Mastercard, are talking about Spend (AKA the Sharesies debit card) and the Investback reward system that earns 1% investments as you spend. Scott explains how day-to-day money management is a big part of wealth, how payments factor into Sharesies’ bigger vision, and Mastercard's role in creating network access.
Why is NZ’s digital payments adoption lower than in Australia and Europe? Why is now such a crucial moment for new tech to challenge the country's consolidated retail banking environment?
Plus, hear about anti-fraud innovations like tokenization, biometrics, and numberless cards.
For more or to watch on YouTube—check out http://linktr.ee/sharedlunch
Shared Lunch is brought to you by Sharesies Australia Limited (ABN 94 648 811 830; AFSL 529893) in Australia and Sharesies Limited (NZ) in New Zealand. It is not financial advice. Information provided is general only and current at the time it’s provided, and does not take into account your objectives, financial situation and needs. We do not provide recommendations and you should always read the disclosure documents available from the product issuer before making a financial decision. Our disclosure documents and terms and conditions—including a Target Market Determination and IDPS Guide for Sharesies Australian customers—can be found on our relevant Australian or NZ website.
Investing involves risk. You might lose the money you start with. If you require financial advice, you should consider speaking with a qualified financial advisor. Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance.
Appearance on Shared Lunch is not an endorsement by Sharesies of the views of the presenters, guests, or the entities they represent. Their views are their own.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome to She had lunch brought to you by Chasa's.
I'm Helen Madison. Today we're doing something a little bit different.
We're talking all things payments. Do you use Google Pay,
Apple Pay or the Chasa's new spend card. In a moment,
I'll be talking to country manager for master Card at
Ruth Riviere.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
The plus that from cards is a is a small
proportion of overall plastic consumption globally, but we feel like
we need to pay our part in that.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And She'sa's personal general manager, Scott Nixon.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
A lot of people don't kind of think about their
income and what they're doing day to day as part
of their wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Before we get started, here's some important information.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you
start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor.
We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest.
Everything you're about to see and hear is current at
the time of recording.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So welcome, Ruth, Welcome Scott. Great to have you here
at MasterCard. Let's start with you, Scott, and why has
Shesis decided to launch a debit card?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So we've been thinking for quite a long time that
if we really want to deliver on that heart of
wealth vision, we really do need to be doing something
in that kind of everyday spending, day to day money
management kind of space. So we feel like this is
the sort of next evolution for chas E's being that
kind of integrated experience.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It does seem a little bit counterintuitive to some though,
to think that spending is part of building you out.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
A lot of people don't kind of think about their
income and what they're doing day to day as part
of their wealth. We do, and it is a really
important part of those kind of financial steps that you
are taking to grow your wealth in the long run.
Good money management, kind of financial management, good habits are
all part of your wealth picture overall.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So you partnered with master Card to bring spend to
investors in anyone else? Really, what does the contry detection entail?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, so, I guess at a functional level, what it
means is that we issue a Chezy's branded master card,
which we love because it gives us immediate access to
a global network. So you can use your card in
New Zealand and all over the world where master Card
is accepted straight off the bat. Which is obviously very
(02:22):
attractive for us.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Likewise, Bruce, what was it attracted you to cheesies?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
We started to see a few examples globally of people
who are thinking about wealth and spending at the same time.
But really, Nason and I think when we thought about
the idea and we thought about New Zealand as a market,
Chassis was such an obvious partner. Someone who is seen
as super innovative, who is not just about an investment
(02:49):
platform but is now doing so many other things, and
a brand that people already deeply trust with their money.
And so that felt like a really natural fit with
some of what we were seeing globally and how you
could make it a really brilliant example here in New Zealand.
And also I just always really wanted a pink car,
(03:12):
so that was part of the conversation too.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's a nice way. And to the global payments sector,
if you like, I mean, technology is really changing the
way we pay for sayings, what would you say is
probably the biggest change in the last five years.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, So the last five years has been a story
of mass digitization and particularly the adoption of mobile wallets.
So since I think twenty three to twenty twenty seven,
we're expecting nearly to double the volume going through those wallets,
and that's in terms of card holder spending. But equally,
(03:51):
you're seeing the adoption of mobile on the acceptance side too,
so you don't need you know, that separate big terminal anymore. Actually,
you can accept payment on your mobile phone. So that
digitization and the pace of digitization five years isn't that
long in payments terms, but we've just seen such a
rapid adoption of that and that will continue.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
So does that mean that people are using plastic cards
a little less in that the likes of Apple Pay,
Google Pay, the digitization.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
That you kind of talked about is way more prevalent.
And do we have any figures on that adoption.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
So the interesting thing about payments is you see technologies coexisting.
So not in New Zealand, but in the US they
still they still love a check. We don't have that here,
but we do. We do still have cash, We do
still have mag stripe, and we certainly see car physical
cards and digital wallets coexisting for really you know a
(04:51):
good period of time going forward. In New Zealand, we're
sort of twenty to thirty percent now in a digital wallet,
someone like Chares E and more innovative players are seeing
a slightly higher proportion of that versus mass and that's
quite a lot lower than Australia, which is about fifty
percent now through a digital wallet, and some parts of
(05:14):
Europe again you know higher, so so New Zealand probably
we're still going to see that pick up more and
particularly as some of these new propositions come to market,
we expect those to be a very digitally engaged customer.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So New Zealand often we've thought about is it back border,
but also for FinTechs, we can be a place to
experiment because it's a small audience. Are we quite behind
when it comes to payments?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So New Zealand was at the forefront of payments and
obviously FPOs and that just made New Zealand so digital
so quickly compared to other other places. But what's interesting
now is that you know, mags write technology. F POS
technology was from the sixties and it hasn't really changed
(06:07):
since and most markets see a lot less of that
than we do here and I think that's part of
why we see that slightly lower adoption on the digital side.
But you're absolutely right, and I think we're at the
cusp of some pretty exciting moves in retail banking to
(06:28):
see some great challenges come in. We've got a pretty
consolidated retail banking environment versus other markets.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
That leads me to a question about if you do
want to use your plastic card every now and again,
is it plastic? Is there any cards that are environmentally freenely?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, Look, the plastic from cards is a is
a small proportion of overall plastic consumption globally, but we
feel like we need to play our part in that.
So by twenty twenty, there will be no more first
time use plastics in the network. And the shares Ease
card is a recycled plastic card, so we we absolutely
(07:11):
see the need to make sure that that recycled plastic
comes in. And then obviously the digital only cards, I
think for shares Ease, you need to request that you
want a physical card, So if you know that you're
only going to use it really digitally, then great, you
can be environmental and not have the plastic.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
The other thing that comes to mind with cards in
digital walllots and like is the loyalty and incentives that
often go with the offerings that you might have signed
up for. How has that evolved, you know in that
five years or recent times, do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah? I mean with lots of conversation about that. And
what's clear as we're moving away from that toaster loyalty,
you know, saving up for however many years and then
having a look through the catalog and getting getting a toaster,
and what we're seeing now is that consumers are expecting
(08:14):
brands to have a much better understanding about what they
care about, what they're passionate about, and rewarding them in
that way. And so we're seeing a move towards experiences
and moved towards access, and moved towards better alignment between
(08:34):
what the brand has as part of their core proposition
and what the consumer wants. We're also seeing that skew
towards corporate social responsibility, towards sustainability, and so we are
definitely seeing that start to change, which you know is exciting.
(08:57):
I look at me and you know, for my very
very much a fan of like the Macca and that's
not points, that's not five percent cash back, that's all
about access and experience.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And Scott Spend does have a fairly different if you
like incentive proposition. Let's let's unpack that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, so, so we're pretty excited to launch invest back
as part of Cheersy's spend. So a little bit like
people might be familiar with like cash back, as Ruth
just mentioned, but this is invest back. So this is
earning investments as you spend, which you know I talked
earlier about that. Now that link between your day to
(09:39):
day money management, spending habits, and growing your long term wealth.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We thought what.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Better way than show a really tangible link between those
two things, which is, as you're tapping your shining new
pink card using online wherever, you're earning investments back, which
is helping you grow wealth in the long run. It's
obviously something unique in New Zealand. This is sort of
probably a handful of examples of this around the world
that we've been able to find you.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So, invest back how does it actually work though? Does
it mean that the more I spend, the more I
get to invest?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So if you if you spend one hundred dollars at
a store, then we might put a dollar into an
investing poll and then that will be invested off on your.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Behalf and you would choose where you want to invest it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I'm presuming initially, I think we're going to make a
We're going to make a default choice, but something we
think will be quite broad appeal, and then as it evolves,
I think we will look to offer choice. We already
have things like auto invest and people putting investing on
repeat and being able to select what they want. So
I think that's probably where you'd say it going over time.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, because with this and like anything shares just does
you know, we usually often have a wait list of beta.
Sometimes there's a lot of back and forth with customers,
isn't there.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Just on that?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I mean so far, what sort of reaction have you
had to spend given it's in order to wait list
for a.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Little while now, Yeah, I mean it's definitely something that
customers have asked about proactively over the year. When you
guys going to do a card. You know, we have
a lot of you know, huge fans of the brand
who just want to be doing more with us. So
it's been great to be able to kind of satisfy
that need. Yep, we started up a waitlist back end
of last year. There's definitely some interest there, you know.
(11:30):
To your point, though, one of the things I love
about working at Shares's is we do experiment a lot
with our customers and we try and get things as
quickly as we can into their hands because they are
obviously the best judge of whether this is a good
product or not, and we're speaking to them quite frequently
about what they'd like to see next, and how it's
working and any bugs we need to fix and et cetera.
(11:51):
So we will have a period where we're ironing out
a few things. But like I said, it's much better
for us to do that with our customers, not sort
of hide it away and then do a big Tata
and then for great a bunch of stuff after that.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So yeah, just still ower the tone a little bit.
Ruth security is something that is part of life, and
particularly with finances, and unfortunately hacking is more prevalent than
it probably has ever been. Do you know what the
stats are around fraud with cards in Australasia for example.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Fraud is such an arms race
and whatever we're spending, the bad guys are spending as much,
if not more to try and undermine it. So it's
a huge area of focus for us, both as MasterCard
and where we're investing internally as well as in acquisitions,
but also with our partners to make sure we are
(12:47):
doing everything we can to protect cardholders and retailers against
that fraud. About ninety percent of fraud comes in the
online space, and so that's really a big focus for
us and why we're implementing things are really focused or
(13:08):
on things like tokenization. So that means that when you
use your card online, we don't actually put the card
number on the website with the retailer, We put a
representation or a token in there. So it means if
then that retailer is hacked and frauds does get hold
of that card number, it can't be used again somewhere else.
(13:29):
So that's one thing that where we think will help
to address that.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And the other is.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Around biometric authentication. So most people are pretty comfortable now
with face ID or thumbprint if you're still on that,
and so making sure more and more payments are authenticated
with biometrics again just makes it much harder to hack
and for that fraud to happen. And then I think
(13:57):
we'll talk a little bit about some of thedditional innovation
that shares these has put around this card, which makes
it even more secure and safe customers to use.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Do you think that consumers particularly need more education about
how to keep safe online, given that's probably where the
line's share of the hacking does happen.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I think so, But it's so sophisticated nowadays, and the
breaches don't always happen with the cardholder. They also happen
with the retailer. They happen at all the stages, and
so just telling people that they need to be careful
is not the full story. So that's why we're really
(14:42):
focused on what can you embed from a technology perspective
to make sure that that security is inherent in every transaction.
Obviously people should be aware about, you know, not giving
other people their card details, making sure that they trust
the retailer that transacting with. But we think if we
can enable it at a technology level, that's going to
(15:06):
be a better outcome because.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You wouldn't always know. I mean, we've all got friends
or ourselves who have been hit through various ways. I
had no idea at the time, would we yeah, okay,
this card spend it doesn't hit a number on it.
So how does a numberless card work in practice?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
You're absolutely right, there's no card number, so you can
use it contactless and when you're shopping, but if you
wanted to enter a card detail online, you'd need to
go to your Charesase app, You'd need to use face
idea to get into your phone, so you've got that
layer of biometric protection. And then just as Chase's customers
are already so used to going into the app as
(15:45):
part of their overall shars experience, you'd go in there
and you'd be able to get your card number in
the app, So that again is another layer of protection
that we're building in to the proposition. Amp Bank launched
it in Australia earlier this year and they say they
(16:07):
will but eradicated the card fraud on that because it
just makes it so much harder for someone to get
hold of your details and to use them without your consent.
So we think this is an awesome part of the
proposition and we would hope to see more of that
coming to market and just consumers getting more comfortable that
(16:28):
four card details you go back to the app.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
How prevalent is it though? Is this something that's just
been adopted slowly or the numberless card.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, so shares Is will be amongst a handful of
the first globally to be rolling this out, but we
expect it to become the norm and it helps with that.
As you said before, will have this coexistence of physical
and digital, but you can make physical more secure with digital,
(17:01):
kind of bringing the two together.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So raise just to kind of finish up, what excites
you about payments in the future, what's coming up?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
So, I mean, I'm a payments check but I do
think payments is really exciting and it it just continues
to evolve and things you weren't even thinking about six
or twelve months ago suddenly like, gosh, this is coming
for me. One of the one of the things I
think is going to be transformative. And you wouldn't be
(17:32):
able to host a podcast without someone saying AI at
some point. But I do think that that AI, as
it is transforming, you know, every other part of our lives,
will transform the way we pay as well, and it
will start to transform it really quickly. You think about
how quickly you've moved your search, you know, into into
(17:59):
these agents, and so we're going to see agents making
payments really soon, so it's already live in the US,
I would not be surprised if it's not here in
the next six to twelve months. And so you'll set
off your agent. You'll say, you know, I'd like to
buy when you see this at this price in this size,
(18:20):
with these shipping or whatever it is, or I'm looking
for a holiday end to end. So it will be
fantastic for consumers to have that capability. But what then
becomes interesting is, well, how do you know as a
bank or as a retailer that someone has authorized that
(18:43):
agent to go and do that thing? And so that's where,
you know, we come back to some of the technologies
we've already talked about around biometric authentication, around the tokenization,
and those become foundational for a really effective agentic payments ecosystem.
(19:04):
So it won't all be brand new. These building blocks
that we're putting in place now will be so important
so that you know that that agent is doing the
work that it's supposed to do. But I think, you know,
we're back talking in a year or so, we'd expect
to see the Chasa's card being used as part of
(19:26):
some of those experiences across New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And scott for you that, are there anything else you
can tell us about where the payment's card spenge will
go in the future gender the ecosystem we have a chooses.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, I mean there's as I said, there's lots of
ideas we've got about where it could go, and we're
certainly keen to hear from our customers on that. The
other thing we haven't probably touched on much today is
open banking, and you know it has been a bit
of a slow burn in New Zealand for a number
of years, but we're really starting to see that accelerate
(20:01):
in recent months and we think that opens up a
whole bunch of other payment related opportunities for us at
Cheeseys make it much easier to get money in and
out of the platform, to be using that money a
more holistic view of your overall financial picture. So with
some of these building blocks coming ai open banking and
(20:23):
then the capability that we're putting down with Cheesy Spend,
we think we think we can create some really neat experiences.
Like I say, our almost singular focus though is how
do they help people grow their wealth in the long term.
So that's what we want to keep anchoring ourselves.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Back to Thanks everyone for tuning in. You can watch
Shared Lunch on YouTube or follow us on your favorite
podcast step, leave us a rating and tell us what
you'd like to hear next. Right now, we're going to
go test the cheesy Spend card with Ruth and Scott.
So here we are at Cafe Menza at the Viaduct
in downtown Auckland.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
What do we do now, Scott, I've got my card,
so I think we should probably buy something.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Oh no, ol me
Kyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome to She had lunch brought to you by Chasa's.
I'm Helen Madison. Today we're doing something a little bit different.
We're talking all things payments. Do you use Google Pay,
Apple Pay or the Chasa's new spend card. In a moment,
I'll be talking to country manager for master Card at
Ruth Riviere.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
The plus that from cards is a is a small
proportion of overall plastic consumption globally, but we feel like
we need to pay our part in that.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And She'sa's personal general manager, Scott Nixon.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
A lot of people don't kind of think about their
income and what they're doing day to day as part
of their wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Before we get started, here's some important information.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you
start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor.
We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest.
Everything you're about to see and hear is current at
the time of recording.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So welcome, Ruth, Welcome Scott. Great to have you here
at MasterCard. Let's start with you, Scott, and why has
Shesis decided to launch a debit card?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So we've been thinking for quite a long time that
if we really want to deliver on that heart of
wealth vision, we really do need to be doing something
in that kind of everyday spending, day to day money
management kind of space. So we feel like this is
the sort of next evolution for chas E's being that
kind of integrated experience.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It does seem a little bit counterintuitive to some though,
to think that spending is part of building you out.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
A lot of people don't kind of think about their
income and what they're doing day to day as part
of their wealth. We do, and it is a really
important part of those kind of financial steps that you
are taking to grow your wealth in the long run.
Good money management, kind of financial management, good habits are
all part of your wealth picture overall.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So you partnered with master Card to bring spend to
investors in anyone else? Really, what does the contry detection entail?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, so, I guess at a functional level, what it
means is that we issue a Chezy's branded master card,
which we love because it gives us immediate access to
a global network. So you can use your card in
New Zealand and all over the world where master Card
is accepted straight off the bat. Which is obviously very
(02:22):
attractive for us.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Likewise, Bruce, what was it attracted you to cheesies?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
We started to see a few examples globally of people
who are thinking about wealth and spending at the same time.
But really, Nason and I think when we thought about
the idea and we thought about New Zealand as a market,
Chassis was such an obvious partner. Someone who is seen
as super innovative, who is not just about an investment
(02:49):
platform but is now doing so many other things, and
a brand that people already deeply trust with their money.
And so that felt like a really natural fit with
some of what we were seeing globally and how you
could make it a really brilliant example here in New Zealand.
And also I just always really wanted a pink car,
(03:12):
so that was part of the conversation too.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's a nice way. And to the global payments sector,
if you like, I mean, technology is really changing the
way we pay for sayings, what would you say is
probably the biggest change in the last five years.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, So the last five years has been a story
of mass digitization and particularly the adoption of mobile wallets.
So since I think twenty three to twenty twenty seven,
we're expecting nearly to double the volume going through those wallets,
and that's in terms of card holder spending. But equally,
(03:51):
you're seeing the adoption of mobile on the acceptance side too,
so you don't need you know, that separate big terminal anymore. Actually,
you can accept payment on your mobile phone. So that
digitization and the pace of digitization five years isn't that
long in payments terms, but we've just seen such a
rapid adoption of that and that will continue.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
So does that mean that people are using plastic cards
a little less in that the likes of Apple Pay,
Google Pay, the digitization.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
That you kind of talked about is way more prevalent.
And do we have any figures on that adoption.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
So the interesting thing about payments is you see technologies coexisting.
So not in New Zealand, but in the US they
still they still love a check. We don't have that here,
but we do. We do still have cash, We do
still have mag stripe, and we certainly see car physical
cards and digital wallets coexisting for really you know a
(04:51):
good period of time going forward. In New Zealand, we're
sort of twenty to thirty percent now in a digital wallet,
someone like Chares E and more innovative players are seeing
a slightly higher proportion of that versus mass and that's
quite a lot lower than Australia, which is about fifty
percent now through a digital wallet, and some parts of
(05:14):
Europe again you know higher, so so New Zealand probably
we're still going to see that pick up more and
particularly as some of these new propositions come to market,
we expect those to be a very digitally engaged customer.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So New Zealand often we've thought about is it back border,
but also for FinTechs, we can be a place to
experiment because it's a small audience. Are we quite behind
when it comes to payments?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So New Zealand was at the forefront of payments and
obviously FPOs and that just made New Zealand so digital
so quickly compared to other other places. But what's interesting
now is that you know, mags write technology. F POS
technology was from the sixties and it hasn't really changed
(06:07):
since and most markets see a lot less of that
than we do here and I think that's part of
why we see that slightly lower adoption on the digital side.
But you're absolutely right, and I think we're at the
cusp of some pretty exciting moves in retail banking to
(06:28):
see some great challenges come in. We've got a pretty
consolidated retail banking environment versus other markets.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
That leads me to a question about if you do
want to use your plastic card every now and again,
is it plastic? Is there any cards that are environmentally freenely?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, Look, the plastic from cards is a is
a small proportion of overall plastic consumption globally, but we
feel like we need to play our part in that.
So by twenty twenty, there will be no more first
time use plastics in the network. And the shares Ease
card is a recycled plastic card, so we we absolutely
(07:11):
see the need to make sure that that recycled plastic
comes in. And then obviously the digital only cards, I
think for shares Ease, you need to request that you
want a physical card, So if you know that you're
only going to use it really digitally, then great, you
can be environmental and not have the plastic.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
The other thing that comes to mind with cards in
digital walllots and like is the loyalty and incentives that
often go with the offerings that you might have signed
up for. How has that evolved, you know in that
five years or recent times, do you think?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah? I mean with lots of conversation about that. And
what's clear as we're moving away from that toaster loyalty,
you know, saving up for however many years and then
having a look through the catalog and getting getting a toaster,
and what we're seeing now is that consumers are expecting
(08:14):
brands to have a much better understanding about what they
care about, what they're passionate about, and rewarding them in
that way. And so we're seeing a move towards experiences
and moved towards access, and moved towards better alignment between
(08:34):
what the brand has as part of their core proposition
and what the consumer wants. We're also seeing that skew
towards corporate social responsibility, towards sustainability, and so we are
definitely seeing that start to change, which you know is exciting.
(08:57):
I look at me and you know, for my very
very much a fan of like the Macca and that's
not points, that's not five percent cash back, that's all
about access and experience.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And Scott Spend does have a fairly different if you
like incentive proposition. Let's let's unpack that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah, so, so we're pretty excited to launch invest back
as part of Cheersy's spend. So a little bit like
people might be familiar with like cash back, as Ruth
just mentioned, but this is invest back. So this is
earning investments as you spend, which you know I talked
earlier about that. Now that link between your day to
(09:39):
day money management, spending habits, and growing your long term wealth.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We thought what.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Better way than show a really tangible link between those
two things, which is, as you're tapping your shining new
pink card using online wherever, you're earning investments back, which
is helping you grow wealth in the long run. It's
obviously something unique in New Zealand. This is sort of
probably a handful of examples of this around the world
that we've been able to find you.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So, invest back how does it actually work though? Does
it mean that the more I spend, the more I
get to invest?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So if you if you spend one hundred dollars at
a store, then we might put a dollar into an
investing poll and then that will be invested off on your.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Behalf and you would choose where you want to invest it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I'm presuming initially, I think we're going to make a
We're going to make a default choice, but something we
think will be quite broad appeal, and then as it evolves,
I think we will look to offer choice. We already
have things like auto invest and people putting investing on
repeat and being able to select what they want. So
I think that's probably where you'd say it going over time.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, because with this and like anything shares just does
you know, we usually often have a wait list of beta.
Sometimes there's a lot of back and forth with customers,
isn't there.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Just on that?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I mean so far, what sort of reaction have you
had to spend given it's in order to wait list
for a.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Little while now, Yeah, I mean it's definitely something that
customers have asked about proactively over the year. When you
guys going to do a card. You know, we have
a lot of you know, huge fans of the brand
who just want to be doing more with us. So
it's been great to be able to kind of satisfy
that need. Yep, we started up a waitlist back end
of last year. There's definitely some interest there, you know.
(11:30):
To your point, though, one of the things I love
about working at Shares's is we do experiment a lot
with our customers and we try and get things as
quickly as we can into their hands because they are
obviously the best judge of whether this is a good
product or not, and we're speaking to them quite frequently
about what they'd like to see next, and how it's
working and any bugs we need to fix and et cetera.
(11:51):
So we will have a period where we're ironing out
a few things. But like I said, it's much better
for us to do that with our customers, not sort
of hide it away and then do a big Tata
and then for great a bunch of stuff after that.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So yeah, just still ower the tone a little bit.
Ruth security is something that is part of life, and
particularly with finances, and unfortunately hacking is more prevalent than
it probably has ever been. Do you know what the
stats are around fraud with cards in Australasia for example.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Fraud is such an arms race
and whatever we're spending, the bad guys are spending as much,
if not more to try and undermine it. So it's
a huge area of focus for us, both as MasterCard
and where we're investing internally as well as in acquisitions,
but also with our partners to make sure we are
(12:47):
doing everything we can to protect cardholders and retailers against
that fraud. About ninety percent of fraud comes in the
online space, and so that's really a big focus for
us and why we're implementing things are really focused or
(13:08):
on things like tokenization. So that means that when you
use your card online, we don't actually put the card
number on the website with the retailer, We put a
representation or a token in there. So it means if
then that retailer is hacked and frauds does get hold
of that card number, it can't be used again somewhere else.
(13:29):
So that's one thing that where we think will help
to address that.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And the other is.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Around biometric authentication. So most people are pretty comfortable now
with face ID or thumbprint if you're still on that,
and so making sure more and more payments are authenticated
with biometrics again just makes it much harder to hack
and for that fraud to happen. And then I think
(13:57):
we'll talk a little bit about some of thedditional innovation
that shares these has put around this card, which makes
it even more secure and safe customers to use.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Do you think that consumers particularly need more education about
how to keep safe online, given that's probably where the
line's share of the hacking does happen.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I think so, But it's so sophisticated nowadays, and the
breaches don't always happen with the cardholder. They also happen
with the retailer. They happen at all the stages, and
so just telling people that they need to be careful
is not the full story. So that's why we're really
(14:42):
focused on what can you embed from a technology perspective
to make sure that that security is inherent in every transaction.
Obviously people should be aware about, you know, not giving
other people their card details, making sure that they trust
the retailer that transacting with. But we think if we
can enable it at a technology level, that's going to
(15:06):
be a better outcome because.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You wouldn't always know. I mean, we've all got friends
or ourselves who have been hit through various ways. I
had no idea at the time, would we yeah, okay,
this card spend it doesn't hit a number on it.
So how does a numberless card work in practice?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
You're absolutely right, there's no card number, so you can
use it contactless and when you're shopping, but if you
wanted to enter a card detail online, you'd need to
go to your Charesase app, You'd need to use face
idea to get into your phone, so you've got that
layer of biometric protection. And then just as Chase's customers
are already so used to going into the app as
(15:45):
part of their overall shars experience, you'd go in there
and you'd be able to get your card number in
the app, So that again is another layer of protection
that we're building in to the proposition. Amp Bank launched
it in Australia earlier this year and they say they
(16:07):
will but eradicated the card fraud on that because it
just makes it so much harder for someone to get
hold of your details and to use them without your consent.
So we think this is an awesome part of the
proposition and we would hope to see more of that
coming to market and just consumers getting more comfortable that
(16:28):
four card details you go back to the app.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
How prevalent is it though? Is this something that's just
been adopted slowly or the numberless card.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, so shares Is will be amongst a handful of
the first globally to be rolling this out, but we
expect it to become the norm and it helps with that.
As you said before, will have this coexistence of physical
and digital, but you can make physical more secure with digital,
(17:01):
kind of bringing the two together.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So raise just to kind of finish up, what excites
you about payments in the future, what's coming up?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
So, I mean, I'm a payments check but I do
think payments is really exciting and it it just continues
to evolve and things you weren't even thinking about six
or twelve months ago suddenly like, gosh, this is coming
for me. One of the one of the things I
think is going to be transformative. And you wouldn't be
(17:32):
able to host a podcast without someone saying AI at
some point. But I do think that that AI, as
it is transforming, you know, every other part of our lives,
will transform the way we pay as well, and it
will start to transform it really quickly. You think about
how quickly you've moved your search, you know, into into
(17:59):
these agents, and so we're going to see agents making
payments really soon, so it's already live in the US,
I would not be surprised if it's not here in
the next six to twelve months. And so you'll set
off your agent. You'll say, you know, I'd like to
buy when you see this at this price in this size,
(18:20):
with these shipping or whatever it is, or I'm looking
for a holiday end to end. So it will be
fantastic for consumers to have that capability. But what then
becomes interesting is, well, how do you know as a
bank or as a retailer that someone has authorized that
(18:43):
agent to go and do that thing? And so that's where,
you know, we come back to some of the technologies
we've already talked about around biometric authentication, around the tokenization,
and those become foundational for a really effective agentic payments ecosystem.
(19:04):
So it won't all be brand new. These building blocks
that we're putting in place now will be so important
so that you know that that agent is doing the
work that it's supposed to do. But I think, you know,
we're back talking in a year or so, we'd expect
to see the Chasa's card being used as part of
(19:26):
some of those experiences across New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And scott for you that, are there anything else you
can tell us about where the payment's card spenge will
go in the future gender the ecosystem we have a chooses.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, I mean there's as I said, there's lots of
ideas we've got about where it could go, and we're
certainly keen to hear from our customers on that. The
other thing we haven't probably touched on much today is
open banking, and you know it has been a bit
of a slow burn in New Zealand for a number
of years, but we're really starting to see that accelerate
(20:01):
in recent months and we think that opens up a
whole bunch of other payment related opportunities for us at
Cheeseys make it much easier to get money in and
out of the platform, to be using that money a
more holistic view of your overall financial picture. So with
some of these building blocks coming ai open banking and
(20:23):
then the capability that we're putting down with Cheesy Spend,
we think we think we can create some really neat experiences.
Like I say, our almost singular focus though is how
do they help people grow their wealth in the long term.
So that's what we want to keep anchoring ourselves.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Back to Thanks everyone for tuning in. You can watch
Shared Lunch on YouTube or follow us on your favorite
podcast step, leave us a rating and tell us what
you'd like to hear next. Right now, we're going to
go test the cheesy Spend card with Ruth and Scott.
So here we are at Cafe Menza at the Viaduct
in downtown Auckland.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
What do we do now, Scott, I've got my card,
so I think we should probably buy something.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Oh no, ol me
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