October 5, 2025 • 18 mins
Today on Shared Lunch, we’re remembering Nigel Latta — the psychologist, author, and storyteller who helped New Zealanders make sense of life’s big questions with curiosity, honesty, and warmth.
Early in 2023, Nigel joined Brooke Roberts for our Kids & Money series, sharing his reflections on how to talk to kids and whānau about money and how it relates to our values. We’re resharing this conversation as a tribute to Nigel, whose work inspired so many to think differently about how we live, parent, and connect.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on Shared Lunch, we're taking a moment to remember
Nigel Latter, who passed away last week at the age
of fifty eight. As most New Zealanders know, Nigel was
a true Kiwi icon, someone who tackled urgent, complex topics
with curiosity, honesty, and warmth. As an author and a broadcaster,
he made psychology and big national issues feel relatable and real.
(00:23):
Nigel made time for everyone, including us, and we're grateful
to have had the chance to talk with him. Today
we're resharing that conversation as a tribute to Nigel with
his personal and thoughtful reflections on how to talk to
kids and faro about money and connecting those conversations to
what really matters our values.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So thanks so much for Green to have a yarn
to me about kids and money and all that fun stuff.
Do you want to tell us a bit about you
and what your interests are?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I never ever expected to be on Telly, like I
grew up in the east coast of South Oland. It's
like I don't know, like it was just I don't
list all. A lot of us is mysteriou to me
how any of this happened, but so so for me
it's kind of like, so most people kind of know
me from that point where I started doing the Tally stuff,
but I like twenty something years of doing clinical stuff
(01:11):
before that, and so most of my clinical work was
kind of teenagers and families and they're sort of what
used to be suspects now that I rang out to
Mariki stuff in prisons and sort of all of that,
and so I kind of come out of that and
then into TV like literally everything that we ever makes
me going, I don't know anything about this thing. I'm
going to go and talk to some people who know,
(01:31):
and then I basically just go around asking questions because
I don't know what's going on. But still somehow people
think that's me saying I know stuff, and like no,
I'm really not, Like I'm literally just bumbling about the
place chatting to people who do know stuff, which is
actually that's the best part of it. I guess, like
if I really think about the stuff that interests me,
it's like it really is about how do you I
understand people and what's going on with people? And then
(01:54):
it's like how do you take that sort of complicated
stuff and simplify and make it easier for people? To understand.
And that's where Tally's really good. Like, I think a
lot of psychologists get really anxious about doing media stuff
because they think, oh, I can't give a full nuanced
answer this really complicated question. And it's like, well, no
you can't. Like so you can't you can't cover them
off because you'll get twenty or thirty seconds and they'll
cut you out. But I think what we can do is,
(02:17):
I think it is really important to be kind of
actively trying to help people to understand stuff. And what
doing TALLY is really greater at is you have to
make really complicated things simple.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
You're obviously very in tune with parents and families from
a lot of your research and know you have looked
into money and children and yeah those dynamics too. Yeah
what lengths did you have to go to kind of
explore that topic.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, So we made the kind of mind of a
money show a few years ago an Shua Kiwi bank
definitely Qui Bank great. They would just said, here's a
bunch of money. You guys know what you're doing, make
a TV show. So it was really good. We kind
of talk about like the secret engine, so you have
to have some kind of intellectual kind of secret engine
basis to the content that you're talking about, and then
try to make that kind of interesting for people. So
(03:02):
we started thinking about this idea of kind of money personalities,
and there is some stuff around that that you know
there some of us are more about security, and some
of us more about experiences, and some of us, you know,
money is about freedom, it's about the social stuff. And
so money is just like what we do with their
money fundamentally just reflects the values of who we are.
I mean, like I say, some people they just can't
say because it's like they just want that dopamine rush
(03:24):
of stuff. So it's like there are understanding I think
your kind of money personality. And again, like I think
that taps a lot into kind of temperament, and it
taps a lot into kind of your kind of values
and how you see the world. But that's another thing,
getting humans to think long term, to think about the future,
and that's really hard because we're not used to that.
We're made for, you know, basically prehistoric times. We've got
(03:49):
these one hundred thousand, maybe two hundred thousand year old brains.
We're doing enormously complicated stuff with them. But they're still
the same old brains. So they struggle with imagining the
future and these really abstract kind of concepts because you know,
they're more likely to be caught by you know, the
little aptic go is bing, you've got three coins? Did
I all amazing?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Do you know say that's complicated for humans? Do you
wonder if it's in some ways easier for kids without
dreaming about the future of what could come next?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think the children what you can do is you
can kind of model stuff, and you can start to
set up some habits and things, and so, you know,
for a lot of people, like I kind of grew
up on a house where we never really talked about money,
Like it wasn't a thing that anyone ever talked about,
and so I didn't really have any understanding of that
kind of stuff. And it was because you know, like
my dad was a builder and my mom was a mum,
and it was just like their world was you work
(04:42):
your money and then you spend it on stuff. And
so like I remember, like as a young man reading
that Richard Kiyosaki rich Dad, poor Dad thing and thinking, man,
this passive income stuff, this sounds pretty good, Like I
want me some of that, but like that wasn't stuff
that I ever learned, and so I do think it's
important for parents to to kind of talk to kids
about that stuff and to talk about you know, to
(05:04):
find ways to teach them that sort of delayed gratification stuff.
So like when I remember, like my boys were little,
they had the pocket money thing, right, and they would
just get like we didn't make them save it, and
we just said, well, look it's yours. You can decide
what you do. And so my youngest guy, he was
like every week ago and buy some two dollars crappy
little thing and that would break and break and break.
(05:27):
But his brother would kind of save up and he
would you know, get bigger, cooler stuff. And so eventually
the younger one thought I must start saving the stuff.
He had to go through that. It is like when
you first when you first get money, and it's like
your own money, that's a pretty amazing thing. I remember
my first job when I and I'm so old, I
got a check book and I remember thinking, oh my god,
(05:47):
like a check book, all right, checks for stuff. It
does feel kind of quite free and amazing. So you
do have to go through that phase of kind of
doing dumb stuff with it. But it's really helpful if
you can start that conversation I think earlier with kids
so they can start thinking about things like interest and
delayed gratification and yeah, you can spend it all now
or you could, but because that's about self control and
(06:10):
self regulation and lots of really good skills.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So for those that are thinking about setting up their
kids with pocket money, how did you what do they
need to do together their pocket money? And then also
do you think you would go about look you choose
what you do with it for a while, or actually,
for certain money personalities, we're going to teach you spend, save,
gift or whatever, you know, because actually I know you're
(06:33):
just going to do whatever you want with it.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You know. Yeah. Yeah, Well, So what I think is
like this, I don't think there's any kind of rights
or wrong, and I don't think there's any one sort
of hard research sciences based on So I do think
we know some stuff about about the stuff that you know,
how we spend money, and it is that stuff about
you know, saving someone, spending stuff and fun stuff and
giving stuff we like that makes that kind of makes
people feel better. So it's like, it's like all things parenting,
(06:54):
you know, you have to like the more you understand
about your kid and the attemperament and how they're wired
together and how they see the world, then you can
do some different things for them. Because for some kids
it'll be like I've got it and now I'm going
to spend it and what I don't know. I'm just
going to throw it out the window because it feels cool,
and other kids. He was like, man, you would say
this do you're a hundred and you wouldn't. You wouldn't
(07:15):
do anything with it. And so it is I think
about that that first thing of when they first start
to kind of get some pocket money and get a
little bit of money. It's that it's like every other
every other part of parenting. It's like, what kind of
kid do I have? And how is their temperament? How
is this going to work out for them later on?
(07:36):
And what are the skills that I need to start
teaching them now around the stuff. So if I've got
a little spender, you know, I'm going to let that
blow on for a bit so they can get that
out of the system and then just start kind of
gently file ways to kind of to bring it back. So,
like you know, with my youngest, we didn't have to
step in and make a policy. He just kind of
got there himself. But if he just kept doing it,
(07:58):
then I think we would have probably had some more
focus conversations with him about like what do you like,
what's the what's what's going on now? You know, and
then we might have done some stuff like Okay, we're
gonna we're going to take a fifty percent tax off you.
It's called the future tax, and we're going to put
this in this jar and you have to pay it
because we're the government. This helders. And then at a
certain time, we'll see how much is there and you
(08:19):
can you can spend it on some stuff. Well, then
you can make a decision about whether you increase your
tax rate or what you do like that that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm really intrigued on what people what kids should be
remunerated for with pocket money, Like how do you make
sure their money are aware but not money hungry or
money fearful? You know?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it should be kind
of values driven in your home, So like all families
need to kind of figure out, like what are the
values that drive our family and no one's got the
you know, it's it's it's about finding the stuff that
works for you. And so I personally, I think it's
a good thing for kids to like pocket money and
stuff that you get because you do some stuff to
(08:57):
help out. And so if you do the stuff to
help out, then you get paid, because it's kind of
how the world is. And I know other people don't.
They just just give it to their kids. And I
don't think either strategy is right or wrong. I just
think they are I think I think what people can
do sometimes is they can just chuck money at kids
and they have no sense of the value of it
and they just waste stuff. And I don't think that's
a good thing to do that. I think to have
(09:19):
some sort of consciousness of the fact that actually, you know,
this comes from somewhere, you know, like you losing your
shoes at school for like the third time, that stuff
comes from somewhere. So I think that you know, it's
that consequential learning stuff about money is still fundamentally it's
a resource that you have to make decisions about, and
if you make poor decisions, then you end up in
(09:40):
not such a great place.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I remember when I had my children and I was
becoming a parent, I was like, there's all these humans
out there, it can't be that hard. Well, and then
I thought there has to be a formula, like why
isn't there a formulator like how to raise his child
or how you know?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And it kind of is right, I mean, there is
a way of kind of there are some frameworks that
you can apply to people, the temperament stuff, so that
you can kind of understand because we all kind of
we all kind of have a basic temperament, right You're
you're an introvert or an extrovert, your you know, more
intense or less intense, and that's we We're kind of
keep that through our whole life. But it changes over
(10:16):
a life as well, and so that's the really important
but to kind of figure out what your kid's temperament
is and then apply the things that work to that.
Because really persistent, which is the nice way of saying
stubborn kids. They're very different to the more kind of
easy going quick do without to change kids.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, I've got both. I call a strong.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
World because you have to it's not what we mean.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I do need to touch on that introvert extra because
I feel like I hear all the time, you know
that being used, and I also hear all we shouldn't
be using that. It's not actually how people are well.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
No, so that the temperament stuff's been around for over
fifty years, and so what the extrast stuff is talking about?
I think, I think what people get tangled up and
they think there's a good one and a bad one,
and they're not like extroverts have their things going and
introverts to their thing going. That they're both introverts and
introverts like people, but introverts find it draining to be
around people and they fill up in quiet time, and
(11:14):
extroverts get their energy from being around people and they
find it draining being alone, and so like understanding that
basic thing about yourself is fundamentally important by nature. I'm
an introvert, so I find long periods of doing it
social stuff like it's really tiring. I just need a
little bit of quiet time. Weirdly, my partner is a
real extrovert, and so for her it's kind of the opposite,
but it's still kind of worked. And so it's not
(11:35):
like there's not a good one or a bad one.
They both have. There's both good and bad things about
all of that. Just like you know, there are having
a strong will kid is draining and exhausting. But those
are the kids when the will goes you can't do that,
they go shut up, I can't and they just do it,
you know. And the kids who are more flexible, what
they do is they find another way around it, or
(11:56):
they're better at working with teams of people, all that
kind of stuff. So there are good or bad temperaments.
It's just who we are and then understanding that and
trying to figure out how to use that.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, personally, I've noticed myne change that's becoming a parent too.
I think I was more extroverted and now I find
if I can get a bit of a loan time,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's just survival. That's just like even kids,
even if you're an ext of it, kids will scoop
all of that out of you, and you just you
just want to be away from tiny grasping fingers. It's
like just I just want peace of just no one
demanding stuff or anythings if something is my fault.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, what are some top tips that it might not
just be parents, grandparents, anybody in a child's life, What
are some things that you wish you saw people do more?
When that interacting with children when it comes.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
To money, money is just another way to teach kids'
values and to show kids the stuff that's important for you.
And so the way that you spend money and what
you spend it on, that's that's just like the way
you treat other people when you're out and about with
your kids, Like that's teaching them things about your values,
and they're looking at your values and making their decisions.
So so I kind of think it's about, Okay, you
(13:02):
just have to decide that values based stuff like how
do how do we think you look after people? And
how do we look after each other? And how do
we treat other people? And I think you just have
to be kind of values driven so that regardless of
kind of how much money you have with your kids,
that they are kind of making values based decisions about
(13:23):
what they do with it. Parenting is essentially it's a
long conversation, and so it's not like you do one
thing and it's like, okay, we've done that. We did
money from seven to nine, and now that's sorted. It's
just this continuous kind of ongoing conversation when you.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Reflect on yourself as a dad and how you've interacted
with money with your children or what you've installed in
them as anything you're really proud of, like a moment
where you're like, oh, I think that really helped them.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So I think one of the things that we kind
of tried to do is like, I think it's fine
to give your kids stuff, but you should give them
stuff because you want to give them stuff, not just
because they expect it or whatever. And so you know,
when it comes a little word, we do stuff. But
I remember again the youngest guy, I think we're in
Queenstown or something, and he wanted this silver money box
thing from Smuggle and like he never he was actually
(14:14):
really mallow cutler, He would never have. He had this
full on, two hour long meltdown because he had I
don't know, four bucks or something and it was going
to cost four dollars fifty and I chose that moment
to teach him a little money lesson, and like to
be honest, about twenty minutes and I was thinking, oh, man,
I shouldn't we should just give them the kid the
(14:35):
fifty cents because it's just getting really boring. It's like,
I don't believe that he didn't. He hasn't sat down
and say, you know, Baba, that day in Queenstown changed
my heart look on life. He just remembers being really
angry about us at the time. So if I look
back to my too, I actually think it's more about
their too, individual little personalities and temperaments are like I
(14:56):
didn't think. I don't think it was anything any of
that stuff that we didn't need necessary that made a difference.
But I think as part of I think you need
to see the money conversations with kids as being part
of all of that stuff. Like so it's a really
important part of life. And too, as they get older,
I think you have to have conversations with them about
the wider world of money, because like they're there. You know.
(15:17):
It is things like you know, the counter narrative that
poor people are poor because they're lazy and they do
work hard, and it's like, well, actually most people are
poor because they get paid the minimum wage and so
they're actually working seventy or eighty hours a week. Like, well,
now we've gone out and talked to and I've worked
in homes and your famis where they're working far harder
than I've ever worked. And so you know, the things
(15:39):
like having conversations with your kids about how they think
about stuff, because they get to vote at some point,
so you have to decide, like, you know, what do
you think about all the stuff about taxes and tax rates,
and do we help other people out or do we
just all help our soals? And what do we do
about that? And you know, and generally what happens in
the world as as more of us get closer to
(16:01):
the edge, we suddenly decide that safety nets are a
great thing. So all the people that winged about the
dull blood is COVID comes along and it's like we
get research and payments where there's big safety in that,
and everyone's going, oh, this is the most great And
then once we get more comfortable again, we forget that
learning and some people kind of move on.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I've got a real visual too of that. How you said,
parenting is a lifelong conversation, and you just see it
from you know, when you're your child is young and
you might be teaching them delayed gratification through the Marshal
arw test or chocolates to.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
You know, my oldest is now working and is doing
Key we Saver, and so we're now having conversations about
which Key we Save a scheme he is in and
what he thinks about that stuff. And it's so yeah,
it's like that stuff. It just it doesn't kind of
end it is. It is a long conversation, and it's
just like anything. It's not a separate conversation. And it's
not like one single thing is the be all around
(16:50):
all or anything. It's like they're all part of the
same sort of long thing.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I would love to see more people in the world
and in particular like feel more that their money is
we for them.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
There are some things that we can all do to
kind of make better decisions and end up in a
better place. Like if I if.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I knew.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
When I was like starting off what I know now,
I would be ending my life in a way different
financial position, like just way different. I would have made
some really different decisions. And so particularly in the world
where traditional idea has been that you know, I'll buy
a home and that'll be my biggest assort. Well, for
more and more and more people, that's just never going
to happen. So then what do you do with your
money and you have to have ways to understand that
(17:31):
basic concept of like making your money work for you,
like that passive income stuff like you just put in
a thing and then it does stuff. That's a really
that's a really important idea, and increasingly we're going to
have to, you know, those traditional routes of building some
(17:52):
sort of legacy, which is the house that it's just
not going to be for most people.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Thanks so much for your insights around money, and I
think it is really just important kind of to know
that there isn't a wrong way. It's just about sharing
the values and having those open communications and keeping their
dialogue and just watching it grow and evolve from that
nice The long conversation, The long conversation,
Today on Shared Lunch, we're taking a moment to remember
Nigel Latter, who passed away last week at the age
of fifty eight. As most New Zealanders know, Nigel was
a true Kiwi icon, someone who tackled urgent, complex topics
with curiosity, honesty, and warmth. As an author and a broadcaster,
he made psychology and big national issues feel relatable and real.
(00:23):
Nigel made time for everyone, including us, and we're grateful
to have had the chance to talk with him. Today
we're resharing that conversation as a tribute to Nigel with
his personal and thoughtful reflections on how to talk to
kids and faro about money and connecting those conversations to
what really matters our values.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So thanks so much for Green to have a yarn
to me about kids and money and all that fun stuff.
Do you want to tell us a bit about you
and what your interests are?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I never ever expected to be on Telly, like I
grew up in the east coast of South Oland. It's
like I don't know, like it was just I don't
list all. A lot of us is mysteriou to me
how any of this happened, but so so for me
it's kind of like, so most people kind of know
me from that point where I started doing the Tally stuff,
but I like twenty something years of doing clinical stuff
(01:11):
before that, and so most of my clinical work was
kind of teenagers and families and they're sort of what
used to be suspects now that I rang out to
Mariki stuff in prisons and sort of all of that,
and so I kind of come out of that and
then into TV like literally everything that we ever makes
me going, I don't know anything about this thing. I'm
going to go and talk to some people who know,
(01:31):
and then I basically just go around asking questions because
I don't know what's going on. But still somehow people
think that's me saying I know stuff, and like no,
I'm really not, Like I'm literally just bumbling about the
place chatting to people who do know stuff, which is
actually that's the best part of it. I guess, like
if I really think about the stuff that interests me,
it's like it really is about how do you I
understand people and what's going on with people? And then
(01:54):
it's like how do you take that sort of complicated
stuff and simplify and make it easier for people? To understand.
And that's where Tally's really good. Like, I think a
lot of psychologists get really anxious about doing media stuff
because they think, oh, I can't give a full nuanced
answer this really complicated question. And it's like, well, no
you can't. Like so you can't you can't cover them
off because you'll get twenty or thirty seconds and they'll
cut you out. But I think what we can do is,
(02:17):
I think it is really important to be kind of
actively trying to help people to understand stuff. And what
doing TALLY is really greater at is you have to
make really complicated things simple.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
You're obviously very in tune with parents and families from
a lot of your research and know you have looked
into money and children and yeah those dynamics too. Yeah
what lengths did you have to go to kind of
explore that topic.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, So we made the kind of mind of a
money show a few years ago an Shua Kiwi bank
definitely Qui Bank great. They would just said, here's a
bunch of money. You guys know what you're doing, make
a TV show. So it was really good. We kind
of talk about like the secret engine, so you have
to have some kind of intellectual kind of secret engine
basis to the content that you're talking about, and then
try to make that kind of interesting for people. So
(03:02):
we started thinking about this idea of kind of money personalities,
and there is some stuff around that that you know
there some of us are more about security, and some
of us more about experiences, and some of us, you know,
money is about freedom, it's about the social stuff. And
so money is just like what we do with their
money fundamentally just reflects the values of who we are.
I mean, like I say, some people they just can't
say because it's like they just want that dopamine rush
(03:24):
of stuff. So it's like there are understanding I think
your kind of money personality. And again, like I think
that taps a lot into kind of temperament, and it
taps a lot into kind of your kind of values
and how you see the world. But that's another thing,
getting humans to think long term, to think about the future,
and that's really hard because we're not used to that.
We're made for, you know, basically prehistoric times. We've got
(03:49):
these one hundred thousand, maybe two hundred thousand year old brains.
We're doing enormously complicated stuff with them. But they're still
the same old brains. So they struggle with imagining the
future and these really abstract kind of concepts because you know,
they're more likely to be caught by you know, the
little aptic go is bing, you've got three coins? Did
I all amazing?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Do you know say that's complicated for humans? Do you
wonder if it's in some ways easier for kids without
dreaming about the future of what could come next?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think the children what you can do is you
can kind of model stuff, and you can start to
set up some habits and things, and so, you know,
for a lot of people, like I kind of grew
up on a house where we never really talked about money,
Like it wasn't a thing that anyone ever talked about,
and so I didn't really have any understanding of that
kind of stuff. And it was because you know, like
my dad was a builder and my mom was a mum,
and it was just like their world was you work
(04:42):
your money and then you spend it on stuff. And
so like I remember, like as a young man reading
that Richard Kiyosaki rich Dad, poor Dad thing and thinking, man,
this passive income stuff, this sounds pretty good, Like I
want me some of that, but like that wasn't stuff
that I ever learned, and so I do think it's
important for parents to to kind of talk to kids
about that stuff and to talk about you know, to
(05:04):
find ways to teach them that sort of delayed gratification stuff.
So like when I remember, like my boys were little,
they had the pocket money thing, right, and they would
just get like we didn't make them save it, and
we just said, well, look it's yours. You can decide
what you do. And so my youngest guy, he was
like every week ago and buy some two dollars crappy
little thing and that would break and break and break.
(05:27):
But his brother would kind of save up and he
would you know, get bigger, cooler stuff. And so eventually
the younger one thought I must start saving the stuff.
He had to go through that. It is like when
you first when you first get money, and it's like
your own money, that's a pretty amazing thing. I remember
my first job when I and I'm so old, I
got a check book and I remember thinking, oh my god,
(05:47):
like a check book, all right, checks for stuff. It
does feel kind of quite free and amazing. So you
do have to go through that phase of kind of
doing dumb stuff with it. But it's really helpful if
you can start that conversation I think earlier with kids
so they can start thinking about things like interest and
delayed gratification and yeah, you can spend it all now
or you could, but because that's about self control and
(06:10):
self regulation and lots of really good skills.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So for those that are thinking about setting up their
kids with pocket money, how did you what do they
need to do together their pocket money? And then also
do you think you would go about look you choose
what you do with it for a while, or actually,
for certain money personalities, we're going to teach you spend, save,
gift or whatever, you know, because actually I know you're
(06:33):
just going to do whatever you want with it.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You know. Yeah. Yeah, Well, So what I think is
like this, I don't think there's any kind of rights
or wrong, and I don't think there's any one sort
of hard research sciences based on So I do think
we know some stuff about about the stuff that you know,
how we spend money, and it is that stuff about
you know, saving someone, spending stuff and fun stuff and
giving stuff we like that makes that kind of makes
people feel better. So it's like, it's like all things parenting,
(06:54):
you know, you have to like the more you understand
about your kid and the attemperament and how they're wired
together and how they see the world, then you can
do some different things for them. Because for some kids
it'll be like I've got it and now I'm going
to spend it and what I don't know. I'm just
going to throw it out the window because it feels cool,
and other kids. He was like, man, you would say
this do you're a hundred and you wouldn't. You wouldn't
(07:15):
do anything with it. And so it is I think
about that that first thing of when they first start
to kind of get some pocket money and get a
little bit of money. It's that it's like every other
every other part of parenting. It's like, what kind of
kid do I have? And how is their temperament? How
is this going to work out for them later on?
(07:36):
And what are the skills that I need to start
teaching them now around the stuff. So if I've got
a little spender, you know, I'm going to let that
blow on for a bit so they can get that
out of the system and then just start kind of
gently file ways to kind of to bring it back. So,
like you know, with my youngest, we didn't have to
step in and make a policy. He just kind of
got there himself. But if he just kept doing it,
(07:58):
then I think we would have probably had some more
focus conversations with him about like what do you like,
what's the what's what's going on now? You know, and
then we might have done some stuff like Okay, we're
gonna we're going to take a fifty percent tax off you.
It's called the future tax, and we're going to put
this in this jar and you have to pay it
because we're the government. This helders. And then at a
certain time, we'll see how much is there and you
(08:19):
can you can spend it on some stuff. Well, then
you can make a decision about whether you increase your
tax rate or what you do like that that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm really intrigued on what people what kids should be
remunerated for with pocket money, Like how do you make
sure their money are aware but not money hungry or
money fearful? You know?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it should be kind
of values driven in your home, So like all families
need to kind of figure out, like what are the
values that drive our family and no one's got the
you know, it's it's it's about finding the stuff that
works for you. And so I personally, I think it's
a good thing for kids to like pocket money and
stuff that you get because you do some stuff to
(08:57):
help out. And so if you do the stuff to
help out, then you get paid, because it's kind of
how the world is. And I know other people don't.
They just just give it to their kids. And I
don't think either strategy is right or wrong. I just
think they are I think I think what people can
do sometimes is they can just chuck money at kids
and they have no sense of the value of it
and they just waste stuff. And I don't think that's
a good thing to do that. I think to have
(09:19):
some sort of consciousness of the fact that actually, you know,
this comes from somewhere, you know, like you losing your
shoes at school for like the third time, that stuff
comes from somewhere. So I think that you know, it's
that consequential learning stuff about money is still fundamentally it's
a resource that you have to make decisions about, and
if you make poor decisions, then you end up in
(09:40):
not such a great place.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I remember when I had my children and I was
becoming a parent, I was like, there's all these humans
out there, it can't be that hard. Well, and then
I thought there has to be a formula, like why
isn't there a formulator like how to raise his child
or how you know?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And it kind of is right, I mean, there is
a way of kind of there are some frameworks that
you can apply to people, the temperament stuff, so that
you can kind of understand because we all kind of
we all kind of have a basic temperament, right You're
you're an introvert or an extrovert, your you know, more
intense or less intense, and that's we We're kind of
keep that through our whole life. But it changes over
(10:16):
a life as well, and so that's the really important
but to kind of figure out what your kid's temperament
is and then apply the things that work to that.
Because really persistent, which is the nice way of saying
stubborn kids. They're very different to the more kind of
easy going quick do without to change kids.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, I've got both. I call a strong.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
World because you have to it's not what we mean.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I do need to touch on that introvert extra because
I feel like I hear all the time, you know
that being used, and I also hear all we shouldn't
be using that. It's not actually how people are well.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
No, so that the temperament stuff's been around for over
fifty years, and so what the extrast stuff is talking about?
I think, I think what people get tangled up and
they think there's a good one and a bad one,
and they're not like extroverts have their things going and
introverts to their thing going. That they're both introverts and
introverts like people, but introverts find it draining to be
around people and they fill up in quiet time, and
(11:14):
extroverts get their energy from being around people and they
find it draining being alone, and so like understanding that
basic thing about yourself is fundamentally important by nature. I'm
an introvert, so I find long periods of doing it
social stuff like it's really tiring. I just need a
little bit of quiet time. Weirdly, my partner is a
real extrovert, and so for her it's kind of the opposite,
but it's still kind of worked. And so it's not
(11:35):
like there's not a good one or a bad one.
They both have. There's both good and bad things about
all of that. Just like you know, there are having
a strong will kid is draining and exhausting. But those
are the kids when the will goes you can't do that,
they go shut up, I can't and they just do it,
you know. And the kids who are more flexible, what
they do is they find another way around it, or
(11:56):
they're better at working with teams of people, all that
kind of stuff. So there are good or bad temperaments.
It's just who we are and then understanding that and
trying to figure out how to use that.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, personally, I've noticed myne change that's becoming a parent too.
I think I was more extroverted and now I find
if I can get a bit of a loan time,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's just survival. That's just like even kids,
even if you're an ext of it, kids will scoop
all of that out of you, and you just you
just want to be away from tiny grasping fingers. It's
like just I just want peace of just no one
demanding stuff or anythings if something is my fault.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, what are some top tips that it might not
just be parents, grandparents, anybody in a child's life, What
are some things that you wish you saw people do more?
When that interacting with children when it comes.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
To money, money is just another way to teach kids'
values and to show kids the stuff that's important for you.
And so the way that you spend money and what
you spend it on, that's that's just like the way
you treat other people when you're out and about with
your kids, Like that's teaching them things about your values,
and they're looking at your values and making their decisions.
So so I kind of think it's about, Okay, you
(13:02):
just have to decide that values based stuff like how
do how do we think you look after people? And
how do we look after each other? And how do
we treat other people? And I think you just have
to be kind of values driven so that regardless of
kind of how much money you have with your kids,
that they are kind of making values based decisions about
(13:23):
what they do with it. Parenting is essentially it's a
long conversation, and so it's not like you do one
thing and it's like, okay, we've done that. We did
money from seven to nine, and now that's sorted. It's
just this continuous kind of ongoing conversation when you.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Reflect on yourself as a dad and how you've interacted
with money with your children or what you've installed in
them as anything you're really proud of, like a moment
where you're like, oh, I think that really helped them.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So I think one of the things that we kind
of tried to do is like, I think it's fine
to give your kids stuff, but you should give them
stuff because you want to give them stuff, not just
because they expect it or whatever. And so you know,
when it comes a little word, we do stuff. But
I remember again the youngest guy, I think we're in
Queenstown or something, and he wanted this silver money box
thing from Smuggle and like he never he was actually
(14:14):
really mallow cutler, He would never have. He had this
full on, two hour long meltdown because he had I
don't know, four bucks or something and it was going
to cost four dollars fifty and I chose that moment
to teach him a little money lesson, and like to
be honest, about twenty minutes and I was thinking, oh, man,
I shouldn't we should just give them the kid the
(14:35):
fifty cents because it's just getting really boring. It's like,
I don't believe that he didn't. He hasn't sat down
and say, you know, Baba, that day in Queenstown changed
my heart look on life. He just remembers being really
angry about us at the time. So if I look
back to my too, I actually think it's more about
their too, individual little personalities and temperaments are like I
(14:56):
didn't think. I don't think it was anything any of
that stuff that we didn't need necessary that made a difference.
But I think as part of I think you need
to see the money conversations with kids as being part
of all of that stuff. Like so it's a really
important part of life. And too, as they get older,
I think you have to have conversations with them about
the wider world of money, because like they're there. You know.
(15:17):
It is things like you know, the counter narrative that
poor people are poor because they're lazy and they do
work hard, and it's like, well, actually most people are
poor because they get paid the minimum wage and so
they're actually working seventy or eighty hours a week. Like, well,
now we've gone out and talked to and I've worked
in homes and your famis where they're working far harder
than I've ever worked. And so you know, the things
(15:39):
like having conversations with your kids about how they think
about stuff, because they get to vote at some point,
so you have to decide, like, you know, what do
you think about all the stuff about taxes and tax rates,
and do we help other people out or do we
just all help our soals? And what do we do
about that? And you know, and generally what happens in
the world as as more of us get closer to
(16:01):
the edge, we suddenly decide that safety nets are a
great thing. So all the people that winged about the
dull blood is COVID comes along and it's like we
get research and payments where there's big safety in that,
and everyone's going, oh, this is the most great And
then once we get more comfortable again, we forget that
learning and some people kind of move on.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I've got a real visual too of that. How you said,
parenting is a lifelong conversation, and you just see it
from you know, when you're your child is young and
you might be teaching them delayed gratification through the Marshal
arw test or chocolates to.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
You know, my oldest is now working and is doing
Key we Saver, and so we're now having conversations about
which Key we Save a scheme he is in and
what he thinks about that stuff. And it's so yeah,
it's like that stuff. It just it doesn't kind of
end it is. It is a long conversation, and it's
just like anything. It's not a separate conversation. And it's
not like one single thing is the be all around
(16:50):
all or anything. It's like they're all part of the
same sort of long thing.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I would love to see more people in the world
and in particular like feel more that their money is
we for them.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
There are some things that we can all do to
kind of make better decisions and end up in a
better place. Like if I if.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I knew.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
When I was like starting off what I know now,
I would be ending my life in a way different
financial position, like just way different. I would have made
some really different decisions. And so particularly in the world
where traditional idea has been that you know, I'll buy
a home and that'll be my biggest assort. Well, for
more and more and more people, that's just never going
to happen. So then what do you do with your
money and you have to have ways to understand that
(17:31):
basic concept of like making your money work for you,
like that passive income stuff like you just put in
a thing and then it does stuff. That's a really
that's a really important idea, and increasingly we're going to
have to, you know, those traditional routes of building some
(17:52):
sort of legacy, which is the house that it's just
not going to be for most people.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Thanks so much for your insights around money, and I
think it is really just important kind of to know
that there isn't a wrong way. It's just about sharing
the values and having those open communications and keeping their
dialogue and just watching it grow and evolve from that
nice The long conversation, The long conversation,
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