October 9, 2024 • 33 mins
Author, business woman, retired financial advisor, and host of Australia's number 1 money podcast, She’s on the Money, Victoria Devine, gives tips on investing in the Australian markets, the benefits of diversification and how to invest in real estate without purchasing a house.
Hear about how you might consider investing while still in debt, how to decide on investments that are right for you and why your family home is not an investment.
For more or to watch on youtube—check out http://linktr.ee/sharedlunch
Investing involves risk. This episode is brought to you by Sharesies Australia Limited (ABN 94 648 811 830; AFSL 529893) in Australia and Sharesies Limited (NZ) in New Zealand. Information provided is general only and current at the time and does not take into account your circumstances, objectives or needs.
We do not provide recommendations and you should always read the disclosure documents available to the product's issuer before making a financial decision. Our disclosure documents, including a Target Market Determination for Sharesies, can be found on our website. If you require financial advice, you should consider speaking with a qualified financial advisor. The views expressed by individuals are their own and Sharesies does not endorse any of the guests or the views they hold.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Kyoda and welcome to this episode of Shared Lunch, which
we're recording from Melbourne. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to my house.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Sorry, I was meant to be introduced, but I just
jumped Tridy in there.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah. Well, and we've joined by Victoria Divine from She's
on the Money and we're going to be talking all
things about investing misconceptions and as well about investing in
the AX, which is the Australian Stock Exchange.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Investing involves risk you might lose the money you start with.
We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. We also
recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. Everything
you're about to see and here is current at the
time of recording.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Before we get started, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of the land, water and sky where we're coming
to you from today. There were reundery people of the
Kulin nation and paying my respects to their elders past,
present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm so excited about this.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You've come to my house to talk about ourd and
butter like, how lucky.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, thanks for hosting us.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Oh wait, I'm excited about this.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I feel like it's going to be a good chat
but also just a fun chat.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well we both love and visiting, really do we?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Who would have thought?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
And here we are now we can share that love,
you know with everyone. You've been in the game, you know,
in this world now for a.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
While, too long, too long? It's different all.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
What's changed about the investing environment since you trained as
a financial advisor versus now?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I feel like so much has changed. In fact, I'm
probably a little bit guilty of holding on too much
because the industry is changing so much. I mean, when
I retired as an advisor, you guys weren't even in Australia.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Wow, And how long ago would that have been.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I retired in twenty twenty one officially and stopped doing
advice back then, handed in my license the year after that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And I just feel like it's so much.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
More approachable now, it's so much more accessible. There's also
a lot more competition in the market, not necessarily from
different shares, but different platforms. And I feel like there's
a lot of analysis paralysis from our community about.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Who do we trust, what do we do, where do
we go?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
But even the idea and I mean I'm on the
Shares's podcast, so we're quite clearly fans of Shares's But
like even just the concept of being able to invest
with as little as one cent, like be for real,
that was never something that I was able to talk about.
And even when I started my investing journey, like you
would be the same you've come out of, you know,
(02:35):
actually legitimate big dog investing firms, and we used to
talk about investments that I could have at the time
only dreamed of being able to play with or be
involved in. And I remember talking to clients about minimum
investment amounts and there was this one fund that I
was like, oh, that sounds so good, but like the
minimum investment at the time was like twenty thousand dollars
(02:57):
and I remember thinking, oh, that's not for me. But
now I can have access to the same fund, and
I do now because it was more me going I
don't even want that. It's not even aligned to my
strategy anymore, but I want to buy it because historically
I thought I would never.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That was strategy right when you're if you can only
afford one.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Investment, yeah, And I think that's diversification is different acually,
like being able to spread, to have a really great
investment pootfolio, no matter how much you're looking to invest.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
If you told me in like twenty seventeen that I
listened to a finance podcast, I'd be like, what is
it like? Market updates from Morning Star? Like I would
have thought it would have been very technical and for
industry only because that's what that content was like. And
now it's this fun topic that everybody can get involved
in and it empowers us.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
The updates thing is interesting because it's like, you definitely
know it's like numbers, numbers, numbers, But the thing is
is it like it's all the exciting stuff that goes
on behind the numbers that's really interesting as an investor.
And I talk about that being like, yes, my job's
and finance, but my job is not my own personal finance.
So you've still got to have interesting. It's still going
(04:07):
to be interesting to right to want to do it
one hundred percent day job.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And I feel like we have learned and I mean,
I feel like I've been passionate about this for a
long time, but I feel like the market and everyone
is catching up with this concept that money is inherently
psychological and so because of that so many more people
are connecting in with this finance concept that they've previously
buried their heads in the sand about because it was
(04:33):
overwhelming and I'm not good at budgeting and I'm not
smart enough or good enough or whatnot, and like that's
actually not true, and that's not the narrative, Like it's
how you feel, it's your money story and all of
that stuff that I'm passionate about. But yeah, the world
has changed, but I think it's for the better. I
would say when it comes to people taking charge of
their investment journeys, it's one hundred percent positive.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So quite a big culture shift then, like happened in
that time around like more you know, more financial behavior,
like bringing that in those good kind of habits, accessibility
becoming more mainstream, just the richness of content now that
we can all get access to. What about when it
comes to like investing products and what's available.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I would have lost my mind, Sonia if even like
three years ago you'd told me you'd be able to
buy cryptocurrencies on the ASEX before real like that to
me is mind blowing. In fact, cryptocurrencies for me was
something that I discussed with my finance friends because we
were really nerdy and used to read Reddit threads like
(05:34):
that was not something that I ever thought would become
part of the mainstream conversation. And I mean here in Australia,
cryptocurrencies are not a recognized financial asset, which, to be honest,
I think we're probably headed that way because for me,
whilst I've been quite public about not adoring cryptocurrencies because
(05:54):
I feel like the risk is too much and it
does blow my mind that so many people are willing
to go so oh I invest in crypto, but the
share market is too overwhelming. That's clearly an education piece,
not necessarily the truth. And I think that when we
have these conversations about cryptocurrencies, people are confused because they say,
be like, you don't like crypto, why would you want
(06:16):
it to be recognized.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I want it to be recognized, sonya.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So it's regulated so that if that's your interest, you're
protected in that space.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So historically, I used to.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Work in a space where we were working with ultra
high net wealth individuals and so I worked in a
position where I had exposure. I think you could say
to a lot of self managed super funds. So here
in Australia, we have what's called a self managed superannuation fund.
So for us that was always like kind of reserved
for the really rich, and for me at the time,
(06:48):
I was envious because of the control that you had
so people could pick literally any type of asset. Now
that control we have now and we can invest in
literally anything we want without having to go down this
very complicated self managed route. So I don't know, just
this idea that things are not only more accessible, just
(07:09):
more fun, and like, how cool is it that we
have so much control over our own futures and.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What we set up today.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
It doesn't have to be the same as tomorrow or
even in fifteen years, but it does count towards future
us being in the best possible position. I think that's
like low key.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Really sexy.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I agreed. So, now, if we look at the A
six itself, what are some of the emergent emerging sectors?
We see like lots of mining, lots of banking, but
there's also a lot more going on. Can you tell
us about some other parts of the AX that are.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So the AX?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I don't know, it's pretty special because it's like our
little island. We are very big in mining, we are
very big in emerging our industries. Technology is a really
big one here. Education is something that I think is
definitely emerging in this space. But also I would say
that post COVID, people who've really prioritized essentials, So we're
seeing more people at a younger demographic purchasing things like
(08:07):
supermarkets and transurban, which is, you know, they run all
of our roads and toll roads here in Australia, here
in Victoria and New South Wales and in Australia. And
I find that we have gone from trying to find
something new and different and emerging to going, hey, how
can I find something that helps us beat inflation but
(08:29):
isn't blowing the lights out because I think our demographic
and this is like gen Z's and gen x is,
we're talking about just making sure that future US is
in the best possible position. When we hear about what's
going on in the broader international market, we hear, oh,
there's definitely a recession coming, we are often more protected
(08:49):
from that, and I think that that's given our investors
and our community a lot more security knowing that. And
I also think that there has been a lot more
pressure put on businesses to be transparent about their ESG policies.
I really welcome that, like I adore that people are
being held to what they are saying right Like historically,
(09:12):
I feel like a lot of businesses spoke or talked
to the talk, but didn't walk the walk. And now
people are being held accountable, and like that increase in
transparency is not just coming from I guess the ASX,
but platforms like Chase's who are you know deciphering that
information for people who aren't investing professionals to be able
to absorb, and they're the ones that are going to
(09:33):
hold them accountable because while we might be investing tiny
amounts along the way, we.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Have a lot of power on mass.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
So I think that's really good for us, but also
nice to see they're being more responsible.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
It's really that rise of the stakeholder, right.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I don't think anyone really took that seriously until when
Game Stop happened. And I feel like when Game Stop
happened and the rise of the minority investor really showed
its power, investing companies and organizations had to really go wow,
Like we didn't think that people with minor investments in
(10:08):
our business would have that much powered and.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think like, yeah, I think people as well, Like
what it is showing is like there is a lot
of engagement, and it's a group that should be engaged
and unlocks.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
A lot of potential when it is engaged.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Really well, you know, when we started ches Is, there
was this idea that people weren't engaged, didn't want to
be engaged. And I think that over time you show
actually people are people find this really interesting and want.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
To be engaged and like we've been jumping up in
data out there for a really long time, sonya, and
finally they're hearing us, and that's really exciting, Like listen
to us.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Investing is cool now.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I think like so much has changed. You're right around
like the experience and what we expect, and I think
it is, you know, democratizing access to information. You know,
that's what you know. Yeah, you're so right. The channels
are there to be able to do that. So if
we kind of flip now into say more investing in general,
what are some common misconceptions about investing?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So I would say, first thing, you need to be
wealthy to be able to invest is the number one
thing that I still see in my community. I feel
like I'm a broken record, and obviously you guys would
be the same. But when you're a retail investor, I
feel like so many people go, oh, I can't start
investing because I'm not wealthy enough or I don't have
enough money yet, And I think that it's kind of
(11:28):
like I've akin to this to like learning on the job.
So you go to university for years, right, and then
you finally graduate and you get so annoyed because you
learned so much more on the job in the first
three months and you haven't even finished probation yet than
you did in the whole time you're at university. And
I think that's investing in a nutshell. You can do
(11:50):
so much research. You can listen to every podcast, you
can absorb every single written piece of content, but you're
going to learn the most when you put yourself into
the market. For me, that tangible experience where you've got
some skin in the game is going to teach you
a lot more than you reading up on how to
you know, do an in species transfer. So I would
(12:11):
say not being in a position to invest, because the
assumption is you need to be contributing massive amounts each
and every single month or you know you are still
in debt. That's probably another big one. I see a
lot of my community asking the question of like, should
I invest if I'm in debt? And I mean as
a blanket response, no, At the end of the day,
(12:33):
you shouldn't be investing significantly if you have a heap
of personal debt. But when we talk about debt, we
need to decipher whether it's good debt or bad debt.
Good debt is good debt is helping you create wealth.
So for me, that's things like your mortgage or a
loan that you've got for a business, whereas bad debt
it's consumer debt. It's things where you've spent the money, sonya,
(12:55):
and you've got literally nothing to show for it except
some good memories.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And like, don't get me.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Wrong, I used to do that. I was the victim
of a personal loan. But so many people go, well,
I can't touch an investment until I've paid that debt
down and that's gonna be another seven years. That doesn't
mean you can't invest on the side, little bits so
that you're giving yourself that financial literacy and you're learning
on the go, and you're feeling empowered because they think
(13:23):
that when we're paying down debt, often we can crucify
ourselves the whole time and be like, I'm the worst.
I can't believe I've gotten myself into this position. But
if you're doing a little bit of an investment on
the side, maybe you're doing like ten dollars a month,
We're not talking like hundreds here, because your debt.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Should be your priority.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Like you're proving to yourself you have the capacity to
save that amount. Let's turn that into a benefit for
future you instead of going I can't do anything along
the way.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And it's true, you do like that experience. Sometimes you
can only just get there through doing it. I'll say,
like differently, have picked up some great listens through that.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
You're just gonna learn on the job, right, like it right,
it's down now, Like we're all just learning and growing.
And I think that a lot of people outside of
this investing conversation crucify themselves for being in debt and
then label themselves as being bad with money or not
good with money, when in reality, sonya, you just spent
more than you weren't. That's actually really easy to fix.
(14:20):
We don't need to talk about our past mistakes and
crucify ourselves. It's just draw line in the sand and
be like, did you want to do something different? We
can like that's completely within your power.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And I think that's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, and I like the idea of like really struggle
with like getting something wrong. It's like there's really no
right on wrong. You just got to kind of keep
going through it or it.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I'm a bit fluffy that way too. I always say
to my team there are no mistakes. They're either blessings
or lessons, like it's one or the other.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So you know, now that people know you can just
enviss with what you can afford, and it's not about
necessarily just one thing and you can you know, it's
about considering a broader your broader picture with money. Like
we have over eight thousand investments on sheers Ease, and.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
You okay, that's just a little bit of a flex.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I know that one of the common questions where you're
asked is what should I invest in?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I hate that question, Sonya that if beef over you,
you know, if we.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Kind of pivot that question into you know, how how
should people consider that feeling of being overwhelmed when it
comes to investing.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I feel like, I feel like it's a really good question,
like what should I invest in? I'm so glad you
asked genuinely, because if you're asking what I should invest in,
like you might be ready to invest, and that's an
exciting position to be in. But I can't legally tell you, hey, Sonia,
go buy abcd ETF because it's the best, because that
(15:45):
would be wildly irresponsible, not only from a licensing perspective,
but that actually might not be the right fit for you. Like,
there is no one asset, and I mean, if a
business creates one asset that meets the criteria of absolutely everybody,
they're going to make trilli. But that is not what
the world is like, that's not how markets work. It's
(16:05):
you need to work that out on your own.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
What are your goals? Why are you investing? Are you
investing for future?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Are you investing because in seven to ten years you
want to buy a property and you kind of want
to get a little bit ahead on that goal. Are
you investing because you've got fomo with your friends, like
deeply understand why you want to invest? Because that why
is then going to tell me how? So then the
next thing you're going to do. I'm going to assume
you've done.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Your risk profile already.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Here, I'm assuming that this person is at the stage
where they've downloaded the Chas's app and then saying far
out Chazy's has grown a bit. They don't have six
ETFs anymore, They've got eight thousand options.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
How do I pick?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
The question I would then ask myself is do I
want to be a direct share investor? Or do I
want to own an exchange traded fund? Now, both of
these have their pros and cons. If you're going down
the route of having direct shares, that's a bit more
responsibility because you've got to make sure you're well diversified.
So you can't just go and purchase BHP and be
(17:04):
done with it, Whereas you're going to get instant diversification
from choosing an ETF. So we need to make that
decision of like, Okay, well maybe in the future I
might have both, so maybe you go, We'll be I'm
a first time investor, and that diversification thing it feels
really overwhelming, so maybe I do start with an exchange
traded fund. Fantastic, We've already wiped out a heap of
(17:26):
the market and now we're only looking at what exchange
traded funds you would like to invest in.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Then we're going to go back to our values. Does
it need to be.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
An ethical fund? Do you want an ETF with only
women on the board? Do you just want tried and true,
something like a Vanguard ETF that you know lots and
lots of people use. That's going to make you feel
comfortable for your introduction to investing. What does that look like?
Are you somebody who just wants an ASX two hundred
(17:55):
index fund? Where that is that's an index fund that
basically takes the top two hundred companies in Australia, divides
your money across all of those, and you get the
average returns of the market. So I think it's about going, well,
which route do I want to go down? And then
once you're there, slowly whittling it down. It's like an
upside down triangle. We're making sure that we're starting really
broad and then we're starting really broad. And I promise
(18:19):
you if you keep doing this process of elimination and
going No, I do want an ETF. Okay, No, I
do want to make sure it's an ethical fund. No,
I do probably want one from the top five companies
in Australia. You're going to end up back where ches
is started with six options. In saying that I am
a victim of going through your app and just having
(18:39):
a bit of a look around. And I mean, I'm
not here to sell your app today, but the AI
tool that's pretty enough. DA Like the fact that you
can just type in what you're interested in and it's like, hey,
this might work, slagh like be for real, Like that
is actually so powerful because right now I can't even
Google that and get a clear response, whereas I can
(19:01):
look it up on your app and it will actually
give me legitimate options that are currently appearing on the ASX.
I feel like it's a really good educational tool. I
think people are going to assume that it's a search
and it will just spit out prout, but it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
So then coming back to getting information about your investments,
what's how should people do due diligence or what's what's
some ways of don some due diligence?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
And I guess that's dotting all your eyes and crossing
all your t's to make sure that this is the
right investment for you. And I guess due diligence goes
in two parts. There's due diligence. Are they a legitimate company?
And that's quite easy to check, Like if they are
on the Shares's app, they're legit because they are listed
on the Australian Stock Exchange or literally all the other
stock exchanges you guys have access to. So that's a
(19:46):
very big tick because it means that they can ply
with a sick they you know, are the Australian securities
exchanges looked at them and been like, yeah, okay, that's
pretty good. But the flip side of due diligence is
for me, is this right for you? Like I think
a lot of the time we get caught up in
not just analysis paralysis over deep diving too much, but
(20:10):
also fomo Like your due diligence is always going to
go back to the type of investment strategy you have.
So are you a buy and hold type of investor?
Like if you're going to purchase a SHA so on
your I mean, I don't know why I'm telling you
this because like you're going to know it better than me,
But is your plan to purchase the share hold it
over the long term and benefit from the dividends and
(20:31):
the ongoing growth of that share, or are you purchasing
that to kind of like flip it, Like you know
how people flip houses, They renovate them, they make more
money in twelve months, they sell it, they move on.
Some people purchase shares in order to get that upside.
That share might not pay any dividends, but they know
that over time it would increase significantly in value. Like
that's called value investing. Whereas I'm not a value investor,
(20:54):
I can't pick it. If I could time the market,
if I could predict what stocks are going to be doing, well,
Baba wouldn't be on this podcast. I'd be in the Bahamas,
like I'd be living my best life. Call me Warren
Buffett like I would not, And I can't do that.
So I think we need to work out what our
investing strategy is to then kind of reverse engineer it
(21:15):
and go, well, what does due diligence look like for me?
So for me, due diligence is about making sure it's
right for you, but then also making sure it's a
legitimate investment. Here in Australia, same goes for like New
Zealand and every other stock exchange, but I would literally go, well,
is this a company that I want to be involved in?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Say people are ready to live a lot out, they've
been envesting for a week, while how do people go
about getting more knowledge or liveling up?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
There is so much free content online. You don't need
to go to university to learn about this. There is podcasts.
If you're not an audio learner, you can read books.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
There is a plethora of books on the market.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
If you aren't like that, you can watch this podcast
on YouTube. You can watch video. You can literally absorb
so much content, like what community can I join? That
kind of perpetuates that and keeps it moving so that
it doesn't become stale or stagnant. Like do you have
a friend that might be on a similar savings or
investment journey where you could have like little monthly check
(22:15):
ins with them. Doesn't have to be your partner to
do money check ins.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
You know, when you talk about liveling up, you know,
it's kind of like I think the community angle as
a way of leveling up, I think was a really
unique and I think an actually really effective way by
leveling up.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Because I'm obsessed with my community.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But I think it's so true. We know that that's
actually what helps us in other areas of our life,
and money is the same. Like the ingredients that go
into making really good habits and other areas of your
life are also helps you with money. So love that
as a liver up.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
But it's true, like, if you're not ready to publicly
talk about.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know, a debt is a massive one.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
People carry a lot of shame around that, and they
shouldn't because at the end of the day, you didn't
have the tools and resources that you have today. And
if you're not ready to talk about that, that's so fine.
But look how much content and a community you can
engage in without having to share your personal details.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
The other one is like where you think people think
you should be better than you are, so you're kind
of not willing to admit that you're not.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Kind of Oh, I'm the first finance professional. I promise
you that will tell you do as I say, not
as I do. I know a lot of stuff I
would say, I'm very smart, but come to personal finances,
could you please not look.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So we've talked a bit about diversification, yes, what how
do people make sure they are truly diversified, what does
it even mean.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Diversification in its most simple form, I suppose is just
making sure that you don't have all your eggs in
one basket. Like that's the most common example, right that
our industry uses, and it's not it's going to mean
something different to other people. Like if you are talking
about diversification and you're a direction share investor. Historically, when
(24:02):
I was putting together direct share portfolios for people, we
would have between seven and maybe twelve shares, and like
twelve felt like a lot in that but every single
share that they held was in a different industry, and
we would, you know, hold maybe one that's probably a lie.
We maybe hold two banks, like one or two banks
and see what was going on. We'd never hold all
(24:24):
of them, but we'd make a decision at the time
of investing as to which bank in that sector was
performing well enough and was a good investment and wasn't
overvalued or underperforming or whatnot to put it into their portfolio.
So diversification in that aspect is something that you have
to manage ongoing, whereas diversification can be instant, Like in
(24:47):
that situation, these people that I was putting portfolios together,
for they were paying a lot of money to have
me manage those portfolios on a monthly basis, and I
mean every three months, I'd go in and make adjustment
and you know, take some profit off some and put
it back into another one, because you know, you wanted
to make sure that you always were consistent and met
(25:08):
their risk profile as well. But on the flip side,
we talk about instant diversification inside an ETF, and that's
because you've got a portfolio manager or a fund manager
making sure that everything inside that asset that you're purchasing
is okay and looked after. But essentially it's making sure
that if one industry is not doing so well, another is.
(25:30):
Like if you've got twelve different investments and over that
twelve one is actually down like thirty percent, that's terrifying.
Like if you said to me, hey, Ve, would you
be comfortable with your portfolio being down thirty percent? Be like,
absolutely not, sonya not willing to.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Take the risk.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But last year, if I look at my share portfolio,
there was an asset in my portfolio that returned negative
thirty two percent.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It made me feel sick.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But if I look at my portfolio as a whole
because everything.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Else kind of held it up.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
My portfolio returned about fourteen and a half percent, which
is very sexy, but that means that I wasn't all
in on one asset. So if one's doing really well,
something else is usually just slugging along. But that's the
beauty of diversification. My personal wealth and my wealth creation
journey was not impacted by the performance of that one share.
(26:24):
So we need to make sure that not all our
eggs are in one basket, because if you trip over,
you've broken all your eggs.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And so, once you have built this investment portfolio and
it's taking along, it's not just you know, sit and
forget forever.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Oh that's annoying.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So you know, how do people you know, how should
people be checking in on their portfolio once it's running?
And as well, you know, how should people stay informed
about the things that are in the airport.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
You've got the big questions today. I appreciate it. So
going back a little bit, this diversification is really important
for you, understand. So if you're a direct share investor
versus like an ETF investor, or even let's pretend you
have two ETFs, You've got an International ETF and you've
got an Australian ETF and maybe because of your risk profile,
(27:13):
which is essential for you to understand. And if you
don't understand your risk profile, there is so much content
on your website about it, like there are blogs. Do
you know how often I'm using your resources because I'm
too lazy to create my own that I send to
the sheese on the mining community when they dm us,
I'm like, oh, actually, shares this did a really good
blog on this. So it's really important to remember your
(27:33):
risk profile. So your risk profile, I was explaining it
earlier today to somebody. It's kind of like a pie
and you cut up your pie in different amounts and
some people say, I'm not that hungry, Victoria, I only
want a little bit of pie, or someone will be like,
I am ravenous, I need the whole thing. And that's
where your portfolio is going to differ from one person
to another. So if you're like a conservative person, you
(27:55):
probably asked for a small amount of pie and not
all of your assets are investor in the share market,
whereas if you are like me and pie is on
the table, like, most of my assets are in the
share market, So if most of my assets are in
the share market, and I know that of my portfolio,
let's say ninety five percent of my money is inside
the share market. Of that money, I would have then
(28:16):
broken it up. I would have then gone okay. So
some of it needs to be exposed to the Australian
share market and some of it needs to be exposed
to the international market. And let's pretend I've spent five
hundred dollars on an Australian ETF and five hundred dollars
on an international you cannot expect them to perform identically
over twelve months. So in twelve months time, we go
(28:39):
back and check, and let's pretend ones at seven hundred
and fifty dollars and ones at five hundred and fifty dollars.
At that point, we want to kind of rebalance our
portfolio and go, well, one did better. Should I take
some of the money off the table and redivide it
across my portfolio?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So I e.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
We maybe sell down some of our Australian and put
it back into the international. Always maintain about fifty percent.
And this happens across the board. So even if you're
a direct share investor, you might do that across a
number of different options, and over time investments are going
to perform differently, So we need to make sure that
(29:15):
we kind of sell down something or maybe we the
next month tip a little bit more money into the
other one to get it back to that balance. And
that's where diversification is really really important. But also rebalancing
is going to mean that that diversification doesn't completely go
out of whack.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And so talking about diversification and how does property fit.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
In property is something that is the great Australian dream
over here, right, I feel like New Zealand's not that
far yeah, Like we just have different accents but same values, right,
Like we all want to own our own home, and
it's getting further and further away from being the reality.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
For most of us.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
That's so important to highlight because they think so many
of us have our parents or our parents' parents telling
us like, why haven't you built property yet, Sonia, And
you're like, because I can't afford it. It's fourteen times
higher than my salary and when you purchased it was
four times.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So it feels further away.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
But property does make up a really good part of
your portfolio. If that's what you want, now, that doesn't
necessarily mean you have to go and buy your family home.
And I've got a bit of a controversial opinion here,
and that is that your family home is not an investment.
And I don't believe that the home you live in
is an investment because in order to benefit from that investment,
(30:35):
you have to sell it. And most of us, if
you purchase your family home, Sonia, and you live in it,
like let's say you bring up a heap of kids
in it, and then you've retired and we're sitting on
the front doorstep reflecting on the fact that we have
two point five perfect children and we're still married in
our rocking chairs.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I don't want for.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You to be able to officially retire, for you to
have to get rid of that asset that holds so
many memories. Whereas if you have an investment property, that's
a different story. Like, even when it comes to picking
investment property, we are picking it based on returns and
location and potential growth. We're not picking it based on
love and how much you really like that like and
(31:14):
how much you really like that clawful bath tub, right, Like,
there are different values at play, but I think it's
also important to highlight that in the share market you
can invest inside property, or you can have exposure to
property in the share market through an ARIIT. So a
real estate investment trust is an asset a bit like
an ETF where they purchase read where where they purchase
(31:38):
real estate, and then the returns of that ARIIT which
you purchase just the same as an ETF, are from property.
So if you're not ready to purchase your first home,
or you just love the idea of property and you're
really passionate about it, and you go, well v I
like shares like a love property like I'd love to
have that, you can have it as a part of
your portfolio without having to be a landlord and pay
(31:59):
for the hot water us when it breaks.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
We've gone all over the place today, covered so much
great stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I feel like we've.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Been everywhere we've been around the investment world.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Oh thanks Hets for joining us. So before we go
and wrap up today, it'd be great. We talked about
that AI search tool. If you want to go give
it a go. You can do that on the Sharesies platform.
Just log in, go to your where your investments are,
and you can go to investment portfolio AI search and
search whatever you want in your own words, have a
(32:33):
play around and see what comes back. Thanks again, Victoria
for joining.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Us, Thank you for having me sharing your.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Epic insights about the A six and also about just
investing in general. You can watch this on Shared Lunch
on YouTube, or follow on your favorite podcast app. Catch
you next time and have a great week.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
See you
Kyoda and welcome to this episode of Shared Lunch, which
we're recording from Melbourne. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to my house.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Sorry, I was meant to be introduced, but I just
jumped Tridy in there.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah. Well, and we've joined by Victoria Divine from She's
on the Money and we're going to be talking all
things about investing misconceptions and as well about investing in
the AX, which is the Australian Stock Exchange.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Investing involves risk you might lose the money you start with.
We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. We also
recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. Everything
you're about to see and here is current at the
time of recording.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Before we get started, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of the land, water and sky where we're coming
to you from today. There were reundery people of the
Kulin nation and paying my respects to their elders past,
present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm so excited about this.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You've come to my house to talk about ourd and
butter like, how lucky.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, thanks for hosting us.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Oh wait, I'm excited about this.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I feel like it's going to be a good chat
but also just a fun chat.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well we both love and visiting, really do we?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Who would have thought?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
And here we are now we can share that love,
you know with everyone. You've been in the game, you know,
in this world now for a.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
While, too long, too long? It's different all.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
What's changed about the investing environment since you trained as
a financial advisor versus now?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I feel like so much has changed. In fact, I'm
probably a little bit guilty of holding on too much
because the industry is changing so much. I mean, when
I retired as an advisor, you guys weren't even in Australia.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Wow, And how long ago would that have been.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I retired in twenty twenty one officially and stopped doing
advice back then, handed in my license the year after that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And I just feel like it's so much.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
More approachable now, it's so much more accessible. There's also
a lot more competition in the market, not necessarily from
different shares, but different platforms. And I feel like there's
a lot of analysis paralysis from our community about.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Who do we trust, what do we do, where do
we go?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
But even the idea and I mean I'm on the
Shares's podcast, so we're quite clearly fans of Shares's But
like even just the concept of being able to invest
with as little as one cent, like be for real,
that was never something that I was able to talk about.
And even when I started my investing journey, like you
would be the same you've come out of, you know,
(02:35):
actually legitimate big dog investing firms, and we used to
talk about investments that I could have at the time
only dreamed of being able to play with or be
involved in. And I remember talking to clients about minimum
investment amounts and there was this one fund that I
was like, oh, that sounds so good, but like the
minimum investment at the time was like twenty thousand dollars
(02:57):
and I remember thinking, oh, that's not for me. But
now I can have access to the same fund, and
I do now because it was more me going I
don't even want that. It's not even aligned to my
strategy anymore, but I want to buy it because historically
I thought I would never.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That was strategy right when you're if you can only
afford one.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Investment, yeah, And I think that's diversification is different acually,
like being able to spread, to have a really great
investment pootfolio, no matter how much you're looking to invest.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
If you told me in like twenty seventeen that I
listened to a finance podcast, I'd be like, what is
it like? Market updates from Morning Star? Like I would
have thought it would have been very technical and for
industry only because that's what that content was like. And
now it's this fun topic that everybody can get involved
in and it empowers us.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
The updates thing is interesting because it's like, you definitely
know it's like numbers, numbers, numbers, But the thing is
is it like it's all the exciting stuff that goes
on behind the numbers that's really interesting as an investor.
And I talk about that being like, yes, my job's
and finance, but my job is not my own personal finance.
So you've still got to have interesting. It's still going
(04:07):
to be interesting to right to want to do it
one hundred percent day job.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And I feel like we have learned and I mean,
I feel like I've been passionate about this for a
long time, but I feel like the market and everyone
is catching up with this concept that money is inherently
psychological and so because of that so many more people
are connecting in with this finance concept that they've previously
buried their heads in the sand about because it was
(04:33):
overwhelming and I'm not good at budgeting and I'm not
smart enough or good enough or whatnot, and like that's
actually not true, and that's not the narrative, Like it's
how you feel, it's your money story and all of
that stuff that I'm passionate about. But yeah, the world
has changed, but I think it's for the better. I
would say when it comes to people taking charge of
their investment journeys, it's one hundred percent positive.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So quite a big culture shift then, like happened in
that time around like more you know, more financial behavior,
like bringing that in those good kind of habits, accessibility
becoming more mainstream, just the richness of content now that
we can all get access to. What about when it
comes to like investing products and what's available.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I would have lost my mind, Sonia if even like
three years ago you'd told me you'd be able to
buy cryptocurrencies on the ASEX before real like that to
me is mind blowing. In fact, cryptocurrencies for me was
something that I discussed with my finance friends because we
were really nerdy and used to read Reddit threads like
(05:34):
that was not something that I ever thought would become
part of the mainstream conversation. And I mean here in Australia,
cryptocurrencies are not a recognized financial asset, which, to be honest,
I think we're probably headed that way because for me,
whilst I've been quite public about not adoring cryptocurrencies because
(05:54):
I feel like the risk is too much and it
does blow my mind that so many people are willing
to go so oh I invest in crypto, but the
share market is too overwhelming. That's clearly an education piece,
not necessarily the truth. And I think that when we
have these conversations about cryptocurrencies, people are confused because they say,
be like, you don't like crypto, why would you want
(06:16):
it to be recognized.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I want it to be recognized, sonya.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So it's regulated so that if that's your interest, you're
protected in that space.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So historically, I used to.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Work in a space where we were working with ultra
high net wealth individuals and so I worked in a
position where I had exposure. I think you could say
to a lot of self managed super funds. So here
in Australia, we have what's called a self managed superannuation fund.
So for us that was always like kind of reserved
for the really rich, and for me at the time,
(06:48):
I was envious because of the control that you had
so people could pick literally any type of asset. Now
that control we have now and we can invest in
literally anything we want without having to go down this
very complicated self managed route. So I don't know, just
this idea that things are not only more accessible, just
(07:09):
more fun, and like, how cool is it that we
have so much control over our own futures and.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What we set up today.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
It doesn't have to be the same as tomorrow or
even in fifteen years, but it does count towards future
us being in the best possible position. I think that's
like low key.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Really sexy.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I agreed. So, now, if we look at the A
six itself, what are some of the emergent emerging sectors?
We see like lots of mining, lots of banking, but
there's also a lot more going on. Can you tell
us about some other parts of the AX that are.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So the AX?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I don't know, it's pretty special because it's like our
little island. We are very big in mining, we are
very big in emerging our industries. Technology is a really
big one here. Education is something that I think is
definitely emerging in this space. But also I would say
that post COVID, people who've really prioritized essentials, So we're
seeing more people at a younger demographic purchasing things like
(08:07):
supermarkets and transurban, which is, you know, they run all
of our roads and toll roads here in Australia, here
in Victoria and New South Wales and in Australia. And
I find that we have gone from trying to find
something new and different and emerging to going, hey, how
can I find something that helps us beat inflation but
(08:29):
isn't blowing the lights out because I think our demographic
and this is like gen Z's and gen x is,
we're talking about just making sure that future US is
in the best possible position. When we hear about what's
going on in the broader international market, we hear, oh,
there's definitely a recession coming, we are often more protected
(08:49):
from that, and I think that that's given our investors
and our community a lot more security knowing that. And
I also think that there has been a lot more
pressure put on businesses to be transparent about their ESG policies.
I really welcome that, like I adore that people are
being held to what they are saying right Like historically,
(09:12):
I feel like a lot of businesses spoke or talked
to the talk, but didn't walk the walk. And now
people are being held accountable, and like that increase in
transparency is not just coming from I guess the ASX,
but platforms like Chase's who are you know deciphering that
information for people who aren't investing professionals to be able
to absorb, and they're the ones that are going to
(09:33):
hold them accountable because while we might be investing tiny
amounts along the way, we.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Have a lot of power on mass.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
So I think that's really good for us, but also
nice to see they're being more responsible.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
It's really that rise of the stakeholder, right.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I don't think anyone really took that seriously until when
Game Stop happened. And I feel like when Game Stop
happened and the rise of the minority investor really showed
its power, investing companies and organizations had to really go wow,
Like we didn't think that people with minor investments in
(10:08):
our business would have that much powered and.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think like, yeah, I think people as well, Like
what it is showing is like there is a lot
of engagement, and it's a group that should be engaged
and unlocks.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
A lot of potential when it is engaged.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Really well, you know, when we started ches Is, there
was this idea that people weren't engaged, didn't want to
be engaged. And I think that over time you show
actually people are people find this really interesting and want.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
To be engaged and like we've been jumping up in
data out there for a really long time, sonya, and
finally they're hearing us, and that's really exciting, Like listen
to us.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Investing is cool now.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I think like so much has changed. You're right around
like the experience and what we expect, and I think
it is, you know, democratizing access to information. You know,
that's what you know. Yeah, you're so right. The channels
are there to be able to do that. So if
we kind of flip now into say more investing in general,
what are some common misconceptions about investing?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So I would say, first thing, you need to be
wealthy to be able to invest is the number one
thing that I still see in my community. I feel
like I'm a broken record, and obviously you guys would
be the same. But when you're a retail investor, I
feel like so many people go, oh, I can't start
investing because I'm not wealthy enough or I don't have
enough money yet, And I think that it's kind of
(11:28):
like I've akin to this to like learning on the job.
So you go to university for years, right, and then
you finally graduate and you get so annoyed because you
learned so much more on the job in the first
three months and you haven't even finished probation yet than
you did in the whole time you're at university. And
I think that's investing in a nutshell. You can do
(11:50):
so much research. You can listen to every podcast, you
can absorb every single written piece of content, but you're
going to learn the most when you put yourself into
the market. For me, that tangible experience where you've got
some skin in the game is going to teach you
a lot more than you reading up on how to
you know, do an in species transfer. So I would
(12:11):
say not being in a position to invest, because the
assumption is you need to be contributing massive amounts each
and every single month or you know you are still
in debt. That's probably another big one. I see a
lot of my community asking the question of like, should
I invest if I'm in debt? And I mean as
a blanket response, no, At the end of the day,
(12:33):
you shouldn't be investing significantly if you have a heap
of personal debt. But when we talk about debt, we
need to decipher whether it's good debt or bad debt.
Good debt is good debt is helping you create wealth.
So for me, that's things like your mortgage or a
loan that you've got for a business, whereas bad debt
it's consumer debt. It's things where you've spent the money, sonya,
(12:55):
and you've got literally nothing to show for it except
some good memories.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And like, don't get me.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Wrong, I used to do that. I was the victim
of a personal loan. But so many people go, well,
I can't touch an investment until I've paid that debt
down and that's gonna be another seven years. That doesn't
mean you can't invest on the side, little bits so
that you're giving yourself that financial literacy and you're learning
on the go, and you're feeling empowered because they think
(13:23):
that when we're paying down debt, often we can crucify
ourselves the whole time and be like, I'm the worst.
I can't believe I've gotten myself into this position. But
if you're doing a little bit of an investment on
the side, maybe you're doing like ten dollars a month,
We're not talking like hundreds here, because your debt.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Should be your priority.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Like you're proving to yourself you have the capacity to
save that amount. Let's turn that into a benefit for
future you instead of going I can't do anything along
the way.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And it's true, you do like that experience. Sometimes you
can only just get there through doing it. I'll say,
like differently, have picked up some great listens through that.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
You're just gonna learn on the job, right, like it right,
it's down now, Like we're all just learning and growing.
And I think that a lot of people outside of
this investing conversation crucify themselves for being in debt and
then label themselves as being bad with money or not
good with money, when in reality, sonya, you just spent
more than you weren't. That's actually really easy to fix.
(14:20):
We don't need to talk about our past mistakes and
crucify ourselves. It's just draw line in the sand and
be like, did you want to do something different? We
can like that's completely within your power.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And I think that's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, and I like the idea of like really struggle
with like getting something wrong. It's like there's really no
right on wrong. You just got to kind of keep
going through it or it.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I'm a bit fluffy that way too. I always say
to my team there are no mistakes. They're either blessings
or lessons, like it's one or the other.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So you know, now that people know you can just
enviss with what you can afford, and it's not about
necessarily just one thing and you can you know, it's
about considering a broader your broader picture with money. Like
we have over eight thousand investments on sheers Ease, and.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
You okay, that's just a little bit of a flex.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I know that one of the common questions where you're
asked is what should I invest in?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I hate that question, Sonya that if beef over you,
you know, if we.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Kind of pivot that question into you know, how how
should people consider that feeling of being overwhelmed when it
comes to investing.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I feel like, I feel like it's a really good question,
like what should I invest in? I'm so glad you
asked genuinely, because if you're asking what I should invest in,
like you might be ready to invest, and that's an
exciting position to be in. But I can't legally tell you, hey, Sonia,
go buy abcd ETF because it's the best, because that
(15:45):
would be wildly irresponsible, not only from a licensing perspective,
but that actually might not be the right fit for you. Like,
there is no one asset, and I mean, if a
business creates one asset that meets the criteria of absolutely everybody,
they're going to make trilli. But that is not what
the world is like, that's not how markets work. It's
(16:05):
you need to work that out on your own.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
What are your goals? Why are you investing? Are you
investing for future?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Are you investing because in seven to ten years you
want to buy a property and you kind of want
to get a little bit ahead on that goal. Are
you investing because you've got fomo with your friends, like
deeply understand why you want to invest? Because that why
is then going to tell me how? So then the
next thing you're going to do. I'm going to assume
you've done.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Your risk profile already.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Here, I'm assuming that this person is at the stage
where they've downloaded the Chas's app and then saying far
out Chazy's has grown a bit. They don't have six
ETFs anymore, They've got eight thousand options.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
How do I pick?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
The question I would then ask myself is do I
want to be a direct share investor? Or do I
want to own an exchange traded fund? Now, both of
these have their pros and cons. If you're going down
the route of having direct shares, that's a bit more
responsibility because you've got to make sure you're well diversified.
So you can't just go and purchase BHP and be
(17:04):
done with it, Whereas you're going to get instant diversification
from choosing an ETF. So we need to make that
decision of like, Okay, well maybe in the future I
might have both, so maybe you go, We'll be I'm
a first time investor, and that diversification thing it feels
really overwhelming, so maybe I do start with an exchange
traded fund. Fantastic, We've already wiped out a heap of
(17:26):
the market and now we're only looking at what exchange
traded funds you would like to invest in.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Then we're going to go back to our values. Does
it need to be.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
An ethical fund? Do you want an ETF with only
women on the board? Do you just want tried and true,
something like a Vanguard ETF that you know lots and
lots of people use. That's going to make you feel
comfortable for your introduction to investing. What does that look like?
Are you somebody who just wants an ASX two hundred
(17:55):
index fund? Where that is that's an index fund that
basically takes the top two hundred companies in Australia, divides
your money across all of those, and you get the
average returns of the market. So I think it's about going, well,
which route do I want to go down? And then
once you're there, slowly whittling it down. It's like an
upside down triangle. We're making sure that we're starting really
broad and then we're starting really broad. And I promise
(18:19):
you if you keep doing this process of elimination and
going No, I do want an ETF. Okay, No, I
do want to make sure it's an ethical fund. No,
I do probably want one from the top five companies
in Australia. You're going to end up back where ches
is started with six options. In saying that I am
a victim of going through your app and just having
(18:39):
a bit of a look around. And I mean, I'm
not here to sell your app today, but the AI
tool that's pretty enough. DA Like the fact that you
can just type in what you're interested in and it's like, hey,
this might work, slagh like be for real, Like that
is actually so powerful because right now I can't even
Google that and get a clear response, whereas I can
(19:01):
look it up on your app and it will actually
give me legitimate options that are currently appearing on the ASX.
I feel like it's a really good educational tool. I
think people are going to assume that it's a search
and it will just spit out prout, but it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
So then coming back to getting information about your investments,
what's how should people do due diligence or what's what's
some ways of don some due diligence?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
And I guess that's dotting all your eyes and crossing
all your t's to make sure that this is the
right investment for you. And I guess due diligence goes
in two parts. There's due diligence. Are they a legitimate company?
And that's quite easy to check, Like if they are
on the Shares's app, they're legit because they are listed
on the Australian Stock Exchange or literally all the other
stock exchanges you guys have access to. So that's a
(19:46):
very big tick because it means that they can ply
with a sick they you know, are the Australian securities
exchanges looked at them and been like, yeah, okay, that's
pretty good. But the flip side of due diligence is
for me, is this right for you? Like I think
a lot of the time we get caught up in
not just analysis paralysis over deep diving too much, but
(20:10):
also fomo Like your due diligence is always going to
go back to the type of investment strategy you have.
So are you a buy and hold type of investor?
Like if you're going to purchase a SHA so on
your I mean, I don't know why I'm telling you
this because like you're going to know it better than me,
But is your plan to purchase the share hold it
over the long term and benefit from the dividends and
(20:31):
the ongoing growth of that share, or are you purchasing
that to kind of like flip it, Like you know
how people flip houses, They renovate them, they make more
money in twelve months, they sell it, they move on.
Some people purchase shares in order to get that upside.
That share might not pay any dividends, but they know
that over time it would increase significantly in value. Like
that's called value investing. Whereas I'm not a value investor,
(20:54):
I can't pick it. If I could time the market,
if I could predict what stocks are going to be doing, well,
Baba wouldn't be on this podcast. I'd be in the Bahamas,
like I'd be living my best life. Call me Warren
Buffett like I would not, And I can't do that.
So I think we need to work out what our
investing strategy is to then kind of reverse engineer it
(21:15):
and go, well, what does due diligence look like for me?
So for me, due diligence is about making sure it's
right for you, but then also making sure it's a
legitimate investment. Here in Australia, same goes for like New
Zealand and every other stock exchange, but I would literally go, well,
is this a company that I want to be involved in?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Say people are ready to live a lot out, they've
been envesting for a week, while how do people go
about getting more knowledge or liveling up?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
There is so much free content online. You don't need
to go to university to learn about this. There is podcasts.
If you're not an audio learner, you can read books.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
There is a plethora of books on the market.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
If you aren't like that, you can watch this podcast
on YouTube. You can watch video. You can literally absorb
so much content, like what community can I join? That
kind of perpetuates that and keeps it moving so that
it doesn't become stale or stagnant. Like do you have
a friend that might be on a similar savings or
investment journey where you could have like little monthly check
(22:15):
ins with them. Doesn't have to be your partner to
do money check ins.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
You know, when you talk about liveling up, you know,
it's kind of like I think the community angle as
a way of leveling up, I think was a really
unique and I think an actually really effective way by
leveling up.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Because I'm obsessed with my community.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But I think it's so true. We know that that's
actually what helps us in other areas of our life,
and money is the same. Like the ingredients that go
into making really good habits and other areas of your
life are also helps you with money. So love that
as a liver up.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
But it's true, like, if you're not ready to publicly
talk about.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know, a debt is a massive one.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
People carry a lot of shame around that, and they
shouldn't because at the end of the day, you didn't
have the tools and resources that you have today. And
if you're not ready to talk about that, that's so fine.
But look how much content and a community you can
engage in without having to share your personal details.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
The other one is like where you think people think
you should be better than you are, so you're kind
of not willing to admit that you're not.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Kind of Oh, I'm the first finance professional. I promise
you that will tell you do as I say, not
as I do. I know a lot of stuff I
would say, I'm very smart, but come to personal finances,
could you please not look.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So we've talked a bit about diversification, yes, what how
do people make sure they are truly diversified, what does
it even mean.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Diversification in its most simple form, I suppose is just
making sure that you don't have all your eggs in
one basket. Like that's the most common example, right that
our industry uses, and it's not it's going to mean
something different to other people. Like if you are talking
about diversification and you're a direction share investor. Historically, when
(24:02):
I was putting together direct share portfolios for people, we
would have between seven and maybe twelve shares, and like
twelve felt like a lot in that but every single
share that they held was in a different industry, and
we would, you know, hold maybe one that's probably a lie.
We maybe hold two banks, like one or two banks
and see what was going on. We'd never hold all
(24:24):
of them, but we'd make a decision at the time
of investing as to which bank in that sector was
performing well enough and was a good investment and wasn't
overvalued or underperforming or whatnot to put it into their portfolio.
So diversification in that aspect is something that you have
to manage ongoing, whereas diversification can be instant, Like in
(24:47):
that situation, these people that I was putting portfolios together,
for they were paying a lot of money to have
me manage those portfolios on a monthly basis, and I
mean every three months, I'd go in and make adjustment
and you know, take some profit off some and put
it back into another one, because you know, you wanted
to make sure that you always were consistent and met
(25:08):
their risk profile as well. But on the flip side,
we talk about instant diversification inside an ETF, and that's
because you've got a portfolio manager or a fund manager
making sure that everything inside that asset that you're purchasing
is okay and looked after. But essentially it's making sure
that if one industry is not doing so well, another is.
(25:30):
Like if you've got twelve different investments and over that
twelve one is actually down like thirty percent, that's terrifying.
Like if you said to me, hey, Ve, would you
be comfortable with your portfolio being down thirty percent? Be like,
absolutely not, sonya not willing to.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Take the risk.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But last year, if I look at my share portfolio,
there was an asset in my portfolio that returned negative
thirty two percent.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It made me feel sick.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But if I look at my portfolio as a whole
because everything.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Else kind of held it up.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
My portfolio returned about fourteen and a half percent, which
is very sexy, but that means that I wasn't all
in on one asset. So if one's doing really well,
something else is usually just slugging along. But that's the
beauty of diversification. My personal wealth and my wealth creation
journey was not impacted by the performance of that one share.
(26:24):
So we need to make sure that not all our
eggs are in one basket, because if you trip over,
you've broken all your eggs.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And so, once you have built this investment portfolio and
it's taking along, it's not just you know, sit and
forget forever.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Oh that's annoying.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So you know, how do people you know, how should
people be checking in on their portfolio once it's running?
And as well, you know, how should people stay informed
about the things that are in the airport.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
You've got the big questions today. I appreciate it. So
going back a little bit, this diversification is really important
for you, understand. So if you're a direct share investor
versus like an ETF investor, or even let's pretend you
have two ETFs, You've got an International ETF and you've
got an Australian ETF and maybe because of your risk profile,
(27:13):
which is essential for you to understand. And if you
don't understand your risk profile, there is so much content
on your website about it, like there are blogs. Do
you know how often I'm using your resources because I'm
too lazy to create my own that I send to
the sheese on the mining community when they dm us,
I'm like, oh, actually, shares this did a really good
blog on this. So it's really important to remember your
(27:33):
risk profile. So your risk profile, I was explaining it
earlier today to somebody. It's kind of like a pie
and you cut up your pie in different amounts and
some people say, I'm not that hungry, Victoria, I only
want a little bit of pie, or someone will be like,
I am ravenous, I need the whole thing. And that's
where your portfolio is going to differ from one person
to another. So if you're like a conservative person, you
(27:55):
probably asked for a small amount of pie and not
all of your assets are investor in the share market,
whereas if you are like me and pie is on
the table, like, most of my assets are in the
share market, So if most of my assets are in
the share market, and I know that of my portfolio,
let's say ninety five percent of my money is inside
the share market. Of that money, I would have then
(28:16):
broken it up. I would have then gone okay. So
some of it needs to be exposed to the Australian
share market and some of it needs to be exposed
to the international market. And let's pretend I've spent five
hundred dollars on an Australian ETF and five hundred dollars
on an international you cannot expect them to perform identically
over twelve months. So in twelve months time, we go
(28:39):
back and check, and let's pretend ones at seven hundred
and fifty dollars and ones at five hundred and fifty dollars.
At that point, we want to kind of rebalance our
portfolio and go, well, one did better. Should I take
some of the money off the table and redivide it
across my portfolio?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So I e.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
We maybe sell down some of our Australian and put
it back into the international. Always maintain about fifty percent.
And this happens across the board. So even if you're
a direct share investor, you might do that across a
number of different options, and over time investments are going
to perform differently, So we need to make sure that
(29:15):
we kind of sell down something or maybe we the
next month tip a little bit more money into the
other one to get it back to that balance. And
that's where diversification is really really important. But also rebalancing
is going to mean that that diversification doesn't completely go
out of whack.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
And so talking about diversification and how does property fit.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
In property is something that is the great Australian dream
over here, right, I feel like New Zealand's not that
far yeah, Like we just have different accents but same values, right,
Like we all want to own our own home, and
it's getting further and further away from being the reality.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
For most of us.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
That's so important to highlight because they think so many
of us have our parents or our parents' parents telling
us like, why haven't you built property yet, Sonia, And
you're like, because I can't afford it. It's fourteen times
higher than my salary and when you purchased it was
four times.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So it feels further away.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
But property does make up a really good part of
your portfolio. If that's what you want, now, that doesn't
necessarily mean you have to go and buy your family home.
And I've got a bit of a controversial opinion here,
and that is that your family home is not an investment.
And I don't believe that the home you live in
is an investment because in order to benefit from that investment,
(30:35):
you have to sell it. And most of us, if
you purchase your family home, Sonia, and you live in it,
like let's say you bring up a heap of kids
in it, and then you've retired and we're sitting on
the front doorstep reflecting on the fact that we have
two point five perfect children and we're still married in
our rocking chairs.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I don't want for.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You to be able to officially retire, for you to
have to get rid of that asset that holds so
many memories. Whereas if you have an investment property, that's
a different story. Like, even when it comes to picking
investment property, we are picking it based on returns and
location and potential growth. We're not picking it based on
love and how much you really like that like and
(31:14):
how much you really like that clawful bath tub, right, Like,
there are different values at play, but I think it's
also important to highlight that in the share market you
can invest inside property, or you can have exposure to
property in the share market through an ARIIT. So a
real estate investment trust is an asset a bit like
an ETF where they purchase read where where they purchase
(31:38):
real estate, and then the returns of that ARIIT which
you purchase just the same as an ETF, are from property.
So if you're not ready to purchase your first home,
or you just love the idea of property and you're
really passionate about it, and you go, well v I
like shares like a love property like I'd love to
have that, you can have it as a part of
your portfolio without having to be a landlord and pay
(31:59):
for the hot water us when it breaks.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
We've gone all over the place today, covered so much
great stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I feel like we've.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Been everywhere we've been around the investment world.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Oh thanks Hets for joining us. So before we go
and wrap up today, it'd be great. We talked about
that AI search tool. If you want to go give
it a go. You can do that on the Sharesies platform.
Just log in, go to your where your investments are,
and you can go to investment portfolio AI search and
search whatever you want in your own words, have a
(32:33):
play around and see what comes back. Thanks again, Victoria
for joining.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Us, Thank you for having me sharing your.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Epic insights about the A six and also about just
investing in general. You can watch this on Shared Lunch
on YouTube, or follow on your favorite podcast app. Catch
you next time and have a great week.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
See you
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