September 24, 2025 • 58 mins
What happens when the people we count on to save us need saving themselves? In this raw and powerful conversation, former Marine and police officer Connor Wainscott reveals the hidden battles fought by many first responders – battles that don't end when the uniform comes off.
From experiencing childhood sexual abuse at age eight to confronting death regularly as a police officer, Connor's story is one of accumulating trauma that nearly cost him everything. After discovering a murder victim during field training and later being involved in a shooting that lasted just four seconds but changed his life forever, he found himself spiraling into increasingly risky behavior on duty while battling suicidal thoughts at home.
"I was in three or four felony stops a week," Connor reveals, describing his post-shooting mindset. "I didn't really have the ability to refrain from going after it. It was like I've already been here, I've proven myself, and I don't want someone else to have to go through what I'm dealing with."
The conversation explores the unique challenges first responders face: the stigma around mental health treatment, the difficulty separating identity from the badge, and the instinct to protect loved ones from their darkest experiences – sometimes at the cost of true connection. Connor speaks honestly about marriage during crisis, parenting while struggling, and how his faith ultimately became his foundation for healing.
Most powerfully, we witness how trauma can transform into purpose. Now volunteering at the same retreat that helped save his life, Connor walks alongside other first responders battling similar demons. "I've been able to share the gospel more at these retreats than I ever got the opportunity on a call for service," he shares. "That's where it sucks to have had to go through what I did to get to that point, but I wouldn't give it up for anything."
If you or someone you know works in emergency services, this conversation might just save a life. Because as Connor's journey proves, even our darkest experiences can become the light that guides others home.
If you or someone you know is in crisis and at risk of self-harm, please call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline.
To contact us directly send an email to Dan@10-42project.org or call 515-350-6274
Visit our website! 10-42project.org
Check us out on social media!
Youtube: @1042project
Facebook: www.facebook.com/1042project
Instagram: 1042_project
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices podcast brought to you bythe 1042 Project.
I'm excited to introduce you.
You probably saw him on someother podcasts, but Conor's here
.
We're going to do a one-on-one.
You want to do a one-on-one,bro?
Let's go.
We're going to do a one-on-oneand we're going to have a talk.
Conor has a story that issimilar to a lot of people's,
but his happened in a very shortperiod of time.
(00:22):
Um, I don't know everything ofa story, so I'm gonna learn some
of it right here, but I am soproud of you for having the
courage to come on here andshare your story.
Um.
I think you sharing your storyis going to unlock somebody
else's healing, right, that'swhy we share it.
(00:43):
Right and that's what's cool iswhen we start to share these
things that we held in as asecret, that we held for shame.
I think it.
They need first responders,need other first responders
being willing to stand up andsay and verbalize what we're
about to talk about the uglyparts, because they're there.
We can either address them orwe can keep hiding from them.
I don't know know about you.
(01:03):
I'm tired of seeing watchingfirst responders kill themselves
.
I'm tired of watching familiesdestroyed.
I'm tired of watchingchildren's going through
divorces and marriages and homesbeing destroyed.
I'm tired of addictions.
I'm tired of us firstresponders eating each other up
and not having grace for eachother.
I'm tired of it because it heldme back so many years to get
(01:28):
help, and I'm sure it held youback a little bit, but you had
the courage to to reach out forhelp.
So I'll just dive into a littlebit of your story and let's
just kind of set set the tonehere.
Tell us a little bit about youand how you went from Kansas to
now you're in Iowa talking on apodcast, because I doubt, when
(01:50):
you started your police career,when they pinned your badge on,
you're like, I hope, in a fewyears I'm on a podcast talking
about um, the trauma I wentthrough and how I about lost it
all.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, so I started and well, I went to the Marine
Corps right out of high schooland I did that and then, once I
got done there, went into lawenforcement in Olathe in Kansas.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I like how he says he did that.
Like I was in Marines.
Like I did that, like I visitedthat place, it was cool, like
you're the freaking Marines man.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That's awesome it was a.
It was its own unique challenge, and one thing I'll say is that
everything I've done in lifehas had a hidden meaning.
There's a lot that's happenedto me that it's weird to say and
when you tell it to peoplethey're confused.
(02:38):
But I've been through a lot ofstuff I'd never want anyone to
go through but it's shaped meand molded me into who I am
today and I think that's reallythe big part I have to cling on
to.
So I had a lot of stuff in theMarine Corps that was unexpected
and had a lot of stuff inchildhood that was unexpected,
(02:59):
that really, really I held.
I had I mean, like I said, I'man open book, so I'll go back
even farther had had sexualabuse as a eight-year-old and
from someone close enough to ourfamily.
(03:19):
That just made it verydifficult.
There's a different dynamicthere and I spent 10 years up
until I was 18, just hating,hating what had happened to me,
hating the person who had donethat and led to a lot of just
(03:42):
dark times in my childhood anddon't remember a times in my
childhood and don't remember aton of my childhood.
I'm realizing, the more that Iget into my adult life, that
there's a lot there that Ireally can't think back on
without some assistance.
There's obviously memoriesthere, but they're just, they're
(04:06):
not the ones that pop up when Igo back to it.
So, yeah, and that's been itsown journey.
You know, I spent, like I said,ten years working through the
hatred and and, honestly, justthe spirit of revenge and
wanting to take back what wasmine.
(04:28):
So that's actually what led meinto the marine corps.
Uh, was revenge.
Pretty much.
I genuinely was.
I wanted to join the military inorder to learn how to do what I
needed to do to take care ofthis person that had had harmed
(04:49):
me as a child, and so, obviously, I decided to go the hardest
route with the Marine Corps, andthere was a sense of pride
there.
With you know they're the bestof the best when it comes to the
military.
With you know they're the bestof the best when it comes to the
(05:11):
military, and, and so I I wentinto that and realized very
quickly you know, the lord justworked on my heart as I was
going through boot camp that Iwas doing it for the wrong
reasons.
Um, you got to share the gospelthere with people.
Boot camp was such a uniqueexperience.
I unfortunately watched someonetry and commit suicide and that
(05:37):
led to its all stuff that I'vecarried for a long time, and
then had someone that wassupposed to be an example and a
leader and attacked methroughout that physically.
I think back on that and ifthey hadn't been pulled off they
(06:01):
probably would have tried tokill me in that moment and so
there's a lot there that justkind of broke down who I was and
what I was doing and why I wasdoing it.
And so I got that from from bootcamp completely changed not
this innocent kid that I've been, not this innocent kid that
(06:31):
I've been, you know, putting outthere to people and just what
it did was reshaped who I was,who I thought I was, and who the
Lord was to me and my faith isa huge component to me and
through all that hard work justfound a spirit of forgiveness.
So I actually got to go andmeet this person Really, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Wow, that's not bad.
Yeah, so close enough, are yougoing?
To talk about this.
Yes, okay, good, yes, closeenough.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yes yeah, close enough that I was able to set up
a meeting with him and justexplain that I knew what had
happened as a kid, that becauseI hadn't told anybody up to this
point at all, I had just heldit in and was able to talk about
(07:25):
that with him and just forgivehim for what was done, not
(07:46):
knowing whether I could rememberand all of the second guessing
that had gone on in their headand self-destructive behaviors
and attempts on their own lifeand different things because of
it.
And seeing the change in thatperson even till now, being able
to see that, has been just anincredible, like it's a god
thing.
(08:06):
absolutely 100 percent you wereable to forgive him yeah, I
wasn't yeah, it's throughthrough me that they got a lot
of it.
But, um, yeah, I mean I don'thave any explanation when people
ask me other than god gave methe ultimate forgiveness and
grace and how many things thatI've done, continue to do and
(08:28):
that he's able to forgive me.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know what's stopping me so, dude, that says
a lot about your character rightthere.
Seriously, like I just learneda lot about you.
You're a standout dude man,thank you, wow.
So then you go from Marines tohow the heck did you end up in
uniform?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, so when I was 14, my brother went in to a
neighboring city that I ended upstarting with and it was always
one of those jobs that had alot of people in my life that
were were law enforcement that Irespected, that I looked up to
as a kid but I never knew how toget there.
(09:10):
It's that like mystical jobthat you just don't know the
process and so once my brotherdid it.
It's like okay it can't be, youknow.
But you know we were, we werehomeschooled, there was a
certain level of like what isthe?
Process for a homeschooler toget into that kind of work, same
(09:32):
thing with the marine corps,and having to come up with all
these things that you know wemight not have had, and and so
once he did that I was prettysure, sure, that's the route I
wanted to go.
So I started there.
Let's see, I would have turned21 in December of 2001.
(09:58):
And then started, let's see,started in March of I think it
was March of 21.
I mean, it might be my years.
Mixed up, it all blendstogether.
Got on with Olathe, had a buddyfrom Church that still works
there that I got to do a coupleride-alongs with, and just
(10:22):
really good department verysolid.
Yeah, I mean, mean, it wasalways something I knew I wanted
to do.
And then going there, even tothis day, although I'm not a
part of it anymore very soliddepartment and training wise and
taking care of their people.
They, they, they care andthey'll follow through with what
(10:43):
they say they're going to.
Yeah, so got started and wentto the academy.
That went really well, and thenwent into patrol, got started
and immediately you know theytalk about people being magnets
(11:05):
for certain things oh yeah, itwas pretty evident that that was
just my lane.
I had the nose to sniff it outand I had a passion to go get
people who were doing bad things.
I got into quite a bit of stuffand before I was out of field
(11:26):
training had already gonethrough the process of um.
We had a lady that we werelooking for and ended up finding
her, you know, in a, in afreezer in her basement, and
that is something I'll neverforget um, a smell and a view
(11:49):
that I'll always remember andand just set the tone for
there's a certain level of like,what's actually going to happen
out here, what are we actuallygoing to see or get into?
And so that was kind of thefirst real major.
All right, we're in it.
(12:10):
And this is real, it's not TV,exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Like you can prepare for it and compare it for it and
think you're ready.
But this was the real one.
It's like whoa yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, I feel like you're living a movie at that
movie at that it does.
And you know, always tellpeople is like the last place I
wanted to look because I knew ifthere was somewhere she was
that was going to be it.
So dealt with that um, takingthe suspect back to to jail and
just sitting in silence withthem for so long and no remorse
(12:43):
at all, and then not gettingcharged for certain reasons and
having to continually havecontacts with that person on the
street, made it my life goal toarrest that person as many
(13:03):
times as I could, and I got likefour or five, so I was pretty
happy with that hey, man, ifthey're breaking the law,
they're breaking the law exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
We just happen to be there every time.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I don't tell you yeah um, but yeah, I mean I just had
that and then once I got out onmy own, really like I wanted to
go and get bad people off thestreet and I was a big warrants
guy.
I like wasn't on anyspecialized unit for it or
(13:36):
anything, but that was um, itwas like easy pickings, it's
like yeah.
I know where you're at, and ifI don't, I'm gonna figure it out
yeah and uh, so I'd I'd go pickup quite a few of those.
Um, I think my last year I hadlike 96 arrests and about 70
percent of them were guys withfelonies and it was a, it was a
(14:00):
good time, um, but through thatI got into a lot.
I saw a lot, had a lot of kindof once in career calls that you
know you get back to thestation and your sergeant's
patting you on the back like man.
I've never seen that before.
And in the moment there's thisculture of like yes, like I
(14:23):
could, you know, check that offmy bingo card for for this
career.
And the more I got into it, themore I realized like that's not
something that I was superproud of, like I was proud of
the work I did, but what camealong with it was was just
really starting to wear on meand, you know, dealt with some,
(14:45):
uh, back-to-back high schoolersthat um were killed on the
highway and you know one oneboth trying to kill themselves,
but you know one running acrosstrying to get hit and dealing
with the aftermath of that on ayou know quarter mile long scene
(15:08):
and then won the next weekjumping off of a bridge and that
was my first death notificationthat I gave to his family those
are so hard they are, and itwas a.
It was a local officer's son ohgeez, um, who had actually heard
(15:28):
it on the radio and I guess wasconcerned enough about you know
where his son was at mentally,that uh, he had already started
making his way home, so met himand, um, just so many of those
like when people talk about thescream of a mother, and uh, you
know the, just the passion thatwas felt there I always call it
(15:53):
like a blood curdling cry likeyou can't, there's no other.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It's like a guttural yeah you don't?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
it's hard to get that noise out of your ears.
It is, it is and uh, so I spent, you know, about three hours
within that evening waiting fordetectives and everyone to wrap
up and come over and, um, it'slike the most useless feeling
and I had to deal with that alot and I still one of the
toughest parts of what I lookback on is, you think about, you
(16:23):
know, being this person behindthe badge and not just making it
a badge but having humanitybehind it.
And that was the one momentthat I felt like I didn't have
anything to offer.
And, um, you know, they had, um, another child who had cancer
his whole life and had beenfighting that, and it was just,
(16:45):
it was a tough, tough scene tobe a part of, and but I moved on
and, well, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
but I told myself, we tell myself yeah we tell you
yeah, we moved on, we got itwhipped.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And I didn't realize you know how much weight that
had until I was just driving thestreets on a midnight patrol
and I don't think I'd everreally thought about where their
house was.
But I turned on that street andimmediately just felt the
weight of a two-month-old callcome right back.
So that's kind of what startedopening my mind and eyes up to.
(17:21):
Okay, this stuff I'm seeing isnot the normal stuff that people
you know, regular, everydaypeople, deal with.
Obviously, cops andfirefighters are a different
story.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
But you're new and young, so are you feeling like I
can't?
I just got to keep going andtoughing through it, because
everybody else is fine, because.
I don't know for me, whenyou're the young one, you kind
of just keep your mouth shutright.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And you kind of mock what everybody else not mock.
You mirror what everybody elseis doing, like yeah, I mean
there's this level.
You know the Marine Corps, likeI think that was also kind of
the same time where I realizedhow much they'd really changed
my thought process.
And you know they talk aboutbreaking you down, building you
back up into what they want youto be.
But that was kind of the firsttime that I realized like I was
emotionally detached from thingswhen I needed to be and because
(18:12):
you know there you're taught to.
You know if you lose the guynext to you, you got to keep
moving because the mission's infront of you.
And so there was a level oflike I just gotta bottle it up,
and you know I did that for 10years with my childhood stuff.
And so there was a level oflike I just gotta bottle it up,
and you know I did that for 10years with my childhood stuff.
And so there was a level ofjust all right, I know the
process, even though I knew theharm that holding it in for 10
(18:35):
years will do, yeah, but there'sjust this repetition and muscle
memory to okay, let's, let'sshove it down, start the next,
next shift, and time heals allwounds right.
Yep, it'll go away.
No, it doesn't at all Just pourbooze on it.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
That's what I did.
That helps a lot.
Yeah, nod, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I am thankful that that was not a vice for me, but
mine was go get into stuffthat's twice as dangerous.
I think it was about the timethat I started really putting
myself in some precarious spots,and so I started kind of giving
(19:13):
some thought to getting helpand then I don't know how much
longer it was ended up gettinginto an officer-involved
shooting.
That was just a crazy.
Had a buddy on a stop that hadstopped somebody and he had
(19:34):
talked to a random member of thepublic that had come by in
their own car and asked for helpand then drove off.
And so he was.
I think he'd been out on hisown for about two weeks and so
he asked for backup and and Iwas pretty close by Um so once I
was pulling up that, that uhcitizen returned to the scene
(19:59):
and ended up getting out of hiscar with a knife and coming at
both of us, so we both.
It all leads into a lot of stuff, but when I got put on
administrative leave, I washelping out detectives with
(20:20):
reports and organization.
As a curious mind, I went backand read those reports because I
had never seen them yet.
They broke it down because Ihad no clue still on what the
timeline was.
But from the time that I gotout of my car to firing my
(20:41):
weapon was four seconds and thatblew my mind because there's so
much that happened in that timeand Spidey Sense is a real
thing Like the world did slowdown and I experienced a lot of
different things than what fourseconds makes it seem like.
So, um, you know, we both bothended up firing and uh tried to
(21:09):
to work on that guy.
It unfortunately lost him andum, so that kind of started the
process of, you know, being onadmin leave for three months
waiting to get cleared and, um,a lot, of, a lot of access to
reports.
Um, this is the one thing thatI, you know, I've talked to my
(21:34):
department and have made surenever happens again is that they
put me in charge of sortinghomicide files.
Oh geez.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
What are we doing to each other?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, I know, it's like we say it now and it's like
how does that make any sense?
Here it happens.
And with that came, you know,the access to every homicide
file from 100 years ago till now, ever since they started.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
In cop brain.
You're digging into it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah.
So you know, in that momentwent through all of them
pictures and all that'ssomething.
(22:23):
It's not a regret that I have,but it is something that got a
lot more faces to my nightmaresand all the things that I have
to deal with.
And so that was kind of one ofthose things that I talked to my
chief after.
I said, hey, like once I was ina better it was actually after
I went to the retreat that Iwent to that I went back.
I said that's something thatnever to that.
I went back and I said that'ssomething that never like that
can never happen again.
Because I was in a vulnerablespot and not realizing it and uh
(22:44):
just piling on, keep it comingand um.
So that was about three months.
I got cleared in September of23.
Uh, the shooting happened inJune of 23 and um went back for
about three months Septembertill the end of the year and I
(23:06):
was on fire Like I was in threeor four felony stops a week.
You know know, getting realclose to um, getting in more
another shooting, um likehunting people down, that that
had, you know, just shot roundsoff at people and um like I
didn't really have the uhability to refrain from going
(23:31):
after it it was like I'vealready been here and I've
proven myself and I don't wantsomeone else to have to go
through what I'm dealing with.
Yeah, so I might as well justadd it on.
Yeah, um, but that led to avery dangerous mindset.
Very, it wasn't haphazard, butit was bordering on just being
(23:52):
unsafe for those around me andwhere I used to do a lot of prep
work and learning about who Iwas going after.
I started just, you know,nonchalant, let's go after
somebody and see what happens,um.
So then I went to my first orlike my six month checkup with
our our therapist and, uh, wentto her and immediately just
(24:17):
broke down realizing where I wasat.
I had like two weeks off forChristmas and that was the first
time.
You know, kept, obviously, yougot to keep your your work email
on your phone so you don't missanything.
And you know all of the groupchats are going off even when
you're not at work.
And, yep, that two weeks wasthe first time in my career that
(24:40):
I had ever like I just shuteverything off because I knew I
wasn't in state, I wasn'tanywhere that I could help.
Anything that went on.
I wasn't going to come in on anextra shift if they needed it,
so it was.
I turned it all off and it wasthe first time that I realized
like, and there is a huge weighton my shoulders and mind and
this is the first time I feellike I've been able to relax on
(25:02):
the weekend.
Um, so we, we just that was kindof the start to feeling like,
okay, I'm not normal, I'm notdoing, I need to go talk to
somebody.
And then I had my six-monthappointment post-shooting and
(25:27):
that led to going to thisretreat that we were talking
about earlier, wcpr.
Thankfully, it was only like amonth away and just led to an
entire new process of healingand, um, yeah, so it was and
you're married at this time,right yeah?
So I've been married for sixyears.
So um got married while I wasstill in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Okay, so your wife's been with you through all this
kiddos.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
We've got one.
Yeah, kiddos, we've got one.
Yeah, so we actually.
She's about 16 months old and Iall of this was happening about
the time she was being born, soI got to spend the first eight
months at home with her, whichwas that's a blessing, yeah,
huge blessing yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
That's that's when, when the babies bond with us the
most.
It's most important for you tobe there as dad.
So that was a blessing.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, and so a kid comes intothis world and you're already
struggling at this point.
Are you talking to your wifeabout that?
Are you talking to anybody atthis point?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
So I have this issue that I am still, to this day,
working through.
My wife is extremely strong.
She can take a lot more thanI've ever given her, and that's
the tough part is that I want toprotect her.
(26:53):
I don't go into a lot of detailwith certain things How's?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
that working out.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
We have a balance that I.
It took us a while, um, tofigure out really what that
looked like, what ourconversation looked like.
A big issue that I I mean, Istill deal with it is just
short-term memory loss and uh,so that was a big thing.
You know, she, she would thinkthat I wasn't listening to her
(27:26):
and it's like I just forgot,like I don't even remember that
conversation.
Yeah.
My head's somewhere else.
Um, my sleep was terrible.
I was was.
You know, I'm on medication now, which has helped a lot me too
and that's its own stigma.
Like I, I was the last personthat I ever thought would get on
medication, but I've seen thedifference on and off and then
(27:50):
now back on yeah and uh also,don't cut cold turkey.
That's a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Never.
Yeah, that's a bad idea.
Your brain goes into like thesebrain zaps like every once in a
while.
It's weird.
Don't ever do it.
They think and actually likereally hurt yourself.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, getting off those medicines yeah, so I um
through that, like we, we kindof built this process of how we
talk to each other and reallyit's just her having a ton of
grace for me and not gettingupset when I forget something or
um, just completely don't evenhear her talking, um, and just
(28:26):
understanding, like my brain hasa lot going on and there's a
lot up there that she can't see,and so that's where we're kind
of at with that, but there'sstill a level of of I keep
certain things that I know aretough.
Um, you know, one of the thingsI struggled a lot with during
(28:50):
that time was just suicidalthoughts.
And um time was just suicidalthoughts and um, that was like
because of my faith and and whatI believe there, I don't
believe in suicide as a way out,but I was still having the
thoughts of it and so it wasthis internal battle I was
(29:12):
already having with myself ofhow do I go about, you know,
telling someone I love that I'vebeen thinking you know every
day about killing myself and howto do it, Especially your wife,
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, it's the hardest yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, it's like she's not going to want to leave me
at the house alone.
Yeah.
And realistically it probablywould have been a good thing to
have told her.
But there was like I don't knowif it was shame or just trying
to be super protective of herand and her view of how things
were going in my journey to, youknow, trying to get back to
(29:47):
this new normal that I had, andso I just kind of kept that you
know buried down, and theretreat was the first time that
I had ever opened up about thatThought.
I was the only person we all dowho had ever dealt with it, and
so I started talking about thefirst night I was there.
(30:09):
And then they ask you know, hey, everyone in this room who's
ever had that raise your hand?
And there was every singleperson, yeah, and so that was my
first like, okay, I can trustthe people here and they know
what I'm going through.
And, um, it scared me more thananything, you know, the same
(30:29):
thing, like when I was talkingabout the thoughts I was having
towards this person who hadabused me as a kid Like.
Those thoughts scared me,because at what level do you
become comfortable with havingthem but not acting on them?
Right.
Um, and so it's a, it's aprocess and you know there are.
(30:51):
There are things that, um, thatI bring up in therapy, that
stay in therapy, but I've triedto open up a lot more.
We have good conversation mywife and I, but she's very
patient and gracious to give metime and space and work through
(31:13):
it.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We put our families through a lot, don't we?
We put our families through alot and sometimes we dump it on
the ones that are closest to us.
I know I put my ex-wife througha lot stuff she didn't deserve
because some, for whateverreason, it's like we take it out
on the people closest to us andnot on the, you know, the
people that should and, and somany of our spouses and family
members are are struggling alongwith the first responder.
(31:37):
Yeah.
And and.
As a husband and as a dad,sometimes that guilt and shame
comes in, because they're likethe people you're supposed to be
protecting the most, like yourwife and your kids.
You feel like you can't beenough.
For me it was.
I never felt enough.
A good enough dad, a goodenough husband?
A good enough officer?
A good enough husband, a goodenough officer?
Like the devil just constantlytells us that we're not enough
(31:57):
yeah and it comes after us.
We struggle with our mentalhealth and then, for me, it got
to a point where it was, youknow my brain, where the enemy
would be telling myself I'mbetter off, they're better off
without me um they'd be betteroff.
I was dead and you start tobelieve those thoughts.
I mean, I went out and boughtaccidental death insurance just
because I knew I was going tokill myself in a car.
Like we start to do thesethings, that gets ugly, man.
(32:21):
And hearing your story fromsomebody, your age and what you
have gone through is and towhere you are now, it's
inspiring because you had twopaths you could have taken and I
know how hard it is to go downthe healing path because
sometimes staying on the hurtpath sometimes it's easier
(32:43):
because we get used to it there.
We're used to being numb, we'reused to being full of anger and
hate.
We can deal with that.
Sometimes, when the emotionscome in like love and compassion
, sometimes we don't know whatto do with that because we're
not used to it.
Sometimes our loved ones cantry to love us well, but because
we feel like we're hated byeverybody else in the world,
because you deal with peoplethat hate you every day, it's
(33:03):
hard to feel that love.
And for me, when you go to numbyour emotions like for me it
was hydrocodone, pills andalcohol and other things when
I'm losing my train of thoughthere as soon as I start to talk
about things I've gone through.
But uh, help me out, when was Iat?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Just talking about, like, the different paths, that
that, uh, to go down, yeah, togo down.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
And it's hard for me.
I kept trying to pick thatright path and it's hard because
you, you start to go down thatright path and you start to do a
little good and people start tothink you're, you're finally
there.
And you start to think you'rethere and then you have that
next call or that next, or you,you have that.
You go down that street and itall re-triggers it and then you
fall back to the.
You feel like you fall back tothe bottom again and now you're
looking back up going.
I got to get all the way backup there yeah and you get to
(33:51):
this point like what's the point?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
yeah, I think you know that's been one of the
toughest hurdles to jump whenworking through my incidents,
you know, with uh, with myclinician is this idea that,
because I have this history of,you know, just shoving it,
bottling it up, keeping it quietand moving on and trying to
(34:15):
work away from that?
But there's still this battlebetween, okay, this stuff that
you know, I've forgiven thisperson who wronged me as a child
and I've moved on from it, butit, you know, that's that's what
I'm working through now is, uh,just all of that and going back
and experiencing it again.
The first few times was, like,what am I doing?
(34:48):
Like am I making it worse onmyself to go back and reopen
these wounds that I would haveconsidered healed, but there's
still a lot of scar tissue therethat had to be dealt with, and
so that's where, trusting thatprocess and the people that know
what they're talking about andthat God's put in my life, um,
you know, I'm super thankfulthat I only have ever had to go
to one person as a clinician andnot, you know, not shop around
(35:11):
to find the person that made theright fit.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, sounds like you found it right away.
That's, that's great.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah and uh.
So through that learning that,um, that there is beneficial
things to going back andre-experiencing.
And then I worked a lot in EMDRthrough that process, um, which
was exhausting physically andemotionally, and just working
(35:41):
through it, experiencing it likeI was there again, um, reliving
every bit of it, to thenswitching to art, which I don't
know if you've heard of it ordone it or was ART it's
accelerated resolution.
Therapy.
I don't think I have it'sbasically I've only done like
two or three sessions of it, butit's slightly condensed version
(36:05):
um of EMDR.
It uses different techniquesand I love it and and I wouldn't
use it on every incident thatI've had to work through but
this one was fantastic.
It goes from being able to takethese images in your head that
(36:25):
you have and work through themand then the next session we go
through and we see them againand we get to cover them up with
our own image that we we wantto replace.
And even now when I think backon it like I know what I would
(36:46):
title the old images.
So when I think about those, Istill like I can't see them it's
the new stuff that I'vereplaced it with, and so, yeah,
it's just, it's incredible, likeI know that God's design for
the brain is extremely complexand having people that have
(37:07):
given time and effort andknowledge and experience into
learning and building thesetechniques that just compliment
his handiwork is incredible.
Like everybody thinks, it'svoodoo magic right.
That's like no, like we'redesigned this way and for us to
(37:27):
be able to like even just thatlittle inkling into how it works
, we're able to get these thingsthat just help so much with
healing and uh.
So it's been an awesome process.
Like I think that's why I'm atwhere I'm at right now is just
all of the the work I mean it'sbeen two years of every other
week just going in and grindingit out and uh, and being able to
(37:52):
see the difference and peoplesee it in me as well.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
And that's when, that's when it really starts to
feel good is when other peoplenotice it, right.
Yeah.
Cause you start to see thefruits of all this hard work of
healing, and when people startto start to respond, it's a good
feeling.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yeah, and that's where that that fire of helping
others starts to really KindleCause it's like when you're
hurting and feel like you got amountaintop you got to climb,
there's not a lot to give, eventhough that's who we are as
first responders.
But once you finally get overthat hump and there's, it's not
to say there aren't more peaksto climb later, but you start to
(38:32):
get that refreshing feelingagain and it's like all right,
let's go do this, let's go help.
And uh, that's why I lovegiving of my time to that
retreat that I went to and, likeI have not been to one that I
didn't get, to see an awesomechange in somebody and continue
to see it and it's like the mostrewarding thing and you go and
(38:54):
volunteer.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So you went there and then now you go back and
volunteer.
Yeah.
You've gone back three times, Ithink you said in the last
podcast that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
And I just started a new job in February.
That's completely unrelated,and they are backing me a
hundred percent.
Like you know, I asked for forno pay.
I just want time away, andthey're more than willing to
give that and and know thatthat's where my passion's at wow
, what a blessing.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, it is.
Do you see yourself sometime,maybe in life, doing this
full-time helping people?
Speaker 3 (39:26):
uh, yeah, I'm actually in the process.
I haven't done a ton of workinto it, but um need to get
going back to school.
I don't have any college, butyou don't need college.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Don't go back to school.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, I've thought about going back and getting my
license professional counselingand being able to do that in our
local area, and there's acouple of people who are really
good, but there's an abundanceof people who still need it.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, so it's a long process, but Well, when someone
like you can become a therapistto start helping other first
responders, man, that's likedouble superpower, man, yeah,
because you you're a therapistand you've been in their shoes,
you know right, that's powerful.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, and that's the thing, like there are a lot of
people who have gone to it, whoare now working through that
process to do it themselves, and, yeah, it's a unique position
to be put in.
And again, I think I said itearlier, but that's where I'm
(40:28):
appreciative of each thingthat's happened, because it'll
lead me to a different path thanI could have ever made on my
own.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, like I mean I've never.
I people say like would youundo it all?
I mean I wouldn't want to hurtthe people I hurt, but it's the
same time.
What I went through is createdat first.
I am now, which is now full ofcompassion and understanding and
grace which I didn't havebefore.
Because when you get, when youstart to get healing for your
mental health and you startrealizing that there are
brothers and sisters that loveon you, that they're not going
(40:58):
to treat you like you're garbage, and you start to get healing
and you start to feel that it'san instant thing that happens
where you want to give that tosomebody else and that's
biblical right.
I mean, god calls us tomultiply.
He helps us.
We then go out and disciple forhim and help others.
(41:19):
I love the.
I love that so many of ourfirst responders and just like
you, could really easily justwalk away from the field and
never look back, but the factthat you're willing to take what
the story you've gone throughand I know you've only shared a
small part of it.
There's a lot more.
You didn't um to be able totake all of that and yeah, it's
(41:42):
tough.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I mean even to this day.
I wish I was still out there.
Yeah.
Like that's where I want to be,but I know it's not good for me,
Like I've been able to,thankfully, have the people
around me and in my circle tofigure out that if I was to
continue down that path, it wasa it was not a healthy one, and
(42:04):
and yeah, I mean my heart'sstill there and I still have the
skillset.
And it's unfortunate that thethings that happened did, and at
the time they did, but it'sit's opened all these doors that
have allowed, allowed me tomeet people like you, meet
people from all over the UnitedStates, um, that I'm still in
(42:24):
contact with and and stillmaking a difference in their
life.
That honestly to me as more ofan impact than I ever did on the
street.
So it's, it's a way to reframeit and I am all here for it dude
, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, because you and I look at each other right now.
Neither one of us should behere yeah.
I should have been dead a longtime ago.
I've tried several times.
You've tried, you've thoughtabout it yeah, for sure yeah,
you know, I've got five kids alltogether and sometimes, even
when you have kids, sometimesthat that's not even enough to
make you not want to end yourlife, because in a way, we're
(43:01):
telling ourselves we're helpingour kids by doing it.
And I'm so glad you are here,I'm so glad that your wife still
has a husband, that your childstill has a dad.
I know every day is not abreeze.
It's not like you get betterwith your mental health and all
of a sudden you check that boxand now it's all roses.
It's not, it's an up and down,but what you're doing, by the
(43:24):
way you're healing, is showingyour family, your wife, and
it'll show your kid one or two.
It'll teach your child and it'llteach other kids how to recover
from trauma, how to recoverfrom trauma, how to cope with
trauma, how to deal with hardthings, how we talk about our
feelings, how it's okay to openup about the thoughts that are
(43:45):
inside our head to somebody else, because as we as dads and moms
, as we do that, our kids arewatching and I learned that when
I caused my kids a lot of pain,but I learned that me working
to get sober and to do all thatum impacted my kids because I
(44:08):
know and I hope that when theyhave times in their life that
they can realize, I hope thatthey realize and I think to do
that they don't have to hold inthose thoughts.
If you're having thoughts ofharming yourself or you're
having thoughts of of any ofthose things that just get ugly
in our life, I want to.
I want my kids to walk that outin a healthy way and I think
the best way we can do that isby showing them as dads as, and
(44:30):
do that is by showing them asdads, as husbands.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
So it's pretty amazing.
Yeah, I'm thankful that I justhad a little baby at that point,
but I have nine nieces andnephews and they're old enough
to understand and that'shonestly something I'm still
trying to navigate.
I know kids are extremelyforgiving and they understand
more than you give them creditfor, Um, but that's it's tough
(44:55):
to navigate.
You know, they all knew I was acop and I don't know how many
of them know I'm not anymore.
You know, I'm sure the olderones have kind of figured out
that's not what I'm doing, but Idon't know if any of them know
why, or that's hard, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
It is Because it's hard explaining to people why
you're not in it anymore.
It feels shameful, it feels youfeel weak.
It's, it's.
It's so hard.
You feel like that's youridentity.
Now it's gone, right.
Who are you now?
Speaker 3 (45:22):
yeah, and you know I I tried to make such a a point
to not make it my identity youknow, like I did not hang out
with people outside of work onthe weekends because you know
I'd had people for you know, mywhole life telling me, like,
when you get into that job,don't do that.
Yeah, they're not your family.
Yeah, like you need to haveseparation from it.
(45:44):
And so having that, you know,came with its its positives and
its negatives, but it made iteasier to like I had a great
support group outside of work,which was the plus.
But yeah, then you realize, ohwow, like actually there was
(46:06):
quite a bit of myself that wasin that job and just perspective
.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
But what I had to learn was that our identities
aren't our bad.
Once I gave my life to Christand started learning that our
identities are in Him.
When we think about ourself-worth, our self-worth comes
from Him and that's who we needto be balancing it off of.
Our identity comes from Him.
Our identity.
Anything outside of that where,if we're not getting it from
him, we're chasing, we'rechasing something that's
unhealthy yeah and but thosehealth unhealthy ways.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Sometimes is the easiest way, because booze works
, sex works I mean all thisstuff that I had to help people
(46:57):
was never fulfilled.
On patrol it's so quick, youknow you get there on their
worst day, you sort things outand you have to move on.
And I think that's been one ofthe coolest changes is that,
like this gospel truth that Iwant to proclaim and the love of
Christ that I want to show,being in the position that I was
(47:19):
put in and now, having walkedthe path that I have and now
getting to go back, I'm now ableto be in this person's worst
day, but in a completelydifferent context.
I'm not there to fix theproblem, I'm there to walk
through it with them and I'vebeen able to share the gospel
more at these retreats that I goback to than I ever get the
(47:41):
opportunity on a call forservice.
And again, that's where itsucks to have had to go through
what I did to get to that point,but I wouldn't give it up for
anything.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, and it's made it who you are.
You know and the things youwent through as a child, the
things you went through in yourcareer, especially as a child,
god did not want that to happento you.
He did not want that to happento you.
Some people say, oh God, no,god did not want that to happen
to you.
But because God does give humanbeings free will and we are
very hurt people, we are ugly toeach other Because God gives us
(48:16):
free will.
If he doesn't give us free will, we're programmed robots and
that's not love.
So with love comes free willand we do things that are just
ugly to each other.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I mean, we live in a sinful world and sinful
creatures until he's regeneratedus.
And yeah, it's a, it's a worldwe're in.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
For me is when I was rock bottom, I realized that
that's a pretty good foundationto start building on.
I mean, when, when I, when,when Jesus is all I had, I
realized that's all I needed.
I lost the house, I lost myfamily, I lost it all, and and
and I hate, I hate the pain Icaused to my family.
But I am glad that I'm heretoday and that I was able to get
through that.
Um cause I was very lost, likeyou, yeah, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
It's like you said earlier, it shows.
It shows those who are aroundyou who you are and what you can
go through.
And, and you know, if you makeit your goal to continually
point that back to, it's allbecause of God and what he's
done in us.
Like that's talk about a lightshining.
You know that is the brightestthing out there, yep.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
So yeah, cause I didn't, you know, we.
It's amazing how God can useour pain for purpose.
It blows my mind sometimes thatthe things I hid from all those
years, all the guilt and shame,the addictions, all those
things are now what makes meunique and allowed to walk
alongside other people.
It feels weird that our, thebad things we did, are now.
(49:43):
You know what I mean.
But God does that.
That's what he does Well yeah,and you know.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
that's why I believe in being so open about
everything that has happened,because you know, if I would
have had somebody when I wasgrowing up that talked, about.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
You know abuse as a kid that happened to like.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I didn't know as a little kid what all that meant,
and you know if it was bad, likeyou just don't.
That's not something aneight-year-old should have to go
through.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
And so being open, like I don't want to hide those
things that hurt they still hurtand it's not fun to talk about
them but knowing that there's alot of other people who have
gone through things that aresimilar, that then we can bond
(50:41):
and like I have an answerbecause of the truth that's in
scripture that I can share andlead them to.
It's like that is why Godallowed that to happen, because
there's benefit to it.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
And all we have to do is show up with our fishes and
loaves and he'll feel he'll feedthe 5,000.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
We don't have to do.
All we have to do is show up.
The specialness of ourorganization is simply, we show
up for each other.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Well, yeah, there's so many times that I get in my
own head about man.
What do I say to this person?
What do they need to hear rightnow?
How am I supposed to help themthrough this?
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
And it was the moment that I realized just give it to
God and let him speak throughyou.
And most of the time I talk fora while and have no clue what I
said.
Me too.
Then I go back and either talkto him or listen to it and I'm
like, oh, that made some goodpoints there.
He really did, you know, bringforth what needed to be heard
(51:45):
and help that person in some way.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
That's pretty cool and I broke these out earlier.
I use these a lot.
When I talk to people.
They call them Russian nestingdolls, I call them action
figures.
But go back to your childhoodand kind of what we talked about
.
Right, a lot of times we're alltrying to address this person,
the big doll or action figure,and trying to get this one to
change, and this is what I wastrying to do.
I was trying to get this one tochange and this is what I was
(52:09):
trying to do.
I was trying to cover paint allover this, make it look better,
try to cover it all up, butwhat I didn't realize is I had
to start opening.
God showed me this in prayerone day.
I had to start opening these upand unpacking all these other
action figures or dolls insidethis, because five-year-old
Daniel was still dealing withabandonment and abandoning this
and some of the things thathappened in my past.
At this age I dealt with thisand there's all these things in
(52:31):
my life of abandonment and otherissues that had changed me that
I had no idea.
And we can't just go and startfrom here.
We have to unpack this.
We have to and we have to do itin a safe way, and there's a
safe way to do that and that's,you know, like our organization,
it's sitting down with somebodywho you trust and talking about
(52:51):
these things and putting truthto them, because we take on our
identities when we go throughtrauma, when things are done to
us, we take on these identitiesand we hold those throughout our
whole life.
And if we can speak truth tothat moment in your life and
make you understand that you, asa kid, didn't deserve that, you
did nothing wrong to deservethat God didn't want that to
happen to you, when we can goback and address what happened
here and put some truth to ityou did nothing wrong, because a
(53:14):
lot of times you hold guilt andshame of like what?
Maybe I shouldn't.
You did nothing wrong.
We got to go back and get help.
As we get help for that, thatunlocks healing through our
whole life.
Absolutely, because it'schanged.
Now this has been addressed.
Yeah, it's changed.
Now this has been addressed andnow at Unlocked, you have a
clear path to start addressingthis one.
Would you say that's accuratewith you?
Speaker 3 (53:32):
Oh yeah, I mean, when I look back at my
eight-year-old trauma, I wantedto put it away and just be done
with it, but there's so muchthere that I've learned from
going through it.
The fact that that's probablywhy I'm the level of protective
person that I am is because Isee this, this younger version
(53:59):
of myself that has to beprotected.
That wasn't, and being able tofigure out like is that why I am
who I am today, in the way thatI protect my wife from some
stuff that I tell her, is thatthe reason that I had such a
(54:23):
passion to go and hunt these badpeople down?
And it makes more sense to methat that is because in that
moment I had, you know, justinnocence.
I mean, I was sinful, but I wasan eight year old kid.
Yeah.
And and so figuring out, likeall this time, what I really
wish had happened was that I hadsomeone there in that moment to
(54:46):
stop it from happening.
And it's built me into what Iam and you know, each of those
things layers into the next, andthat's, you know, why some of
the stuff in the Marine Corpshas, I think I think because of
that and and where my mind wasat even being molded, and you
(55:09):
know, growing has led to the waythat I hold things and the way
that I experience them is a muchmore personal level than some
people might, and so I havethings that you know it happened
in the Marine Corps thatshouldn't have happened, but
(55:30):
they hold this whole new doublemeaning because the thing that
happened there took me rightback to when I was an eight year
old.
Nope.
And like I feel the weight ofboth now in each other, like I
see them both now simultaneouslyeach other, like I see them
(55:55):
both now simultaneously, and sobeing able to deal with that has
allowed me the process I mean,it's still a long process of
working through each thing.
And you know I have people askme like, does it ever get better
or does it ever go away?
You know, like I'm two and ahalf years, you know past, when
(56:18):
I got in my shooting and I stilldeal with nightmares.
They're not as frequent,thankfully, but part of that's
the medication.
Um, it's always going to bethere, as far as I can tell.
But the things that we learn,the ways that we learn to deal
with things and in the processand recognizing it earlier, and
(56:39):
all of those are how we getbetter.
Yep, it's still there, it'sstill going to come up.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
We're still going to have things that bring it up but
it doesn't control you, correct, and that's the difference that
you get control over thatswitch is being able to
recognize it and address it in ahealthy way.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yep, instead of all these other ways that we were
doing it yeah, wow, man, you'reuh, you're a miracle.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
I'm glad you're here I said it before but I'm I'm
glad you're still alive and withus, because I know god's got
plans for you that you don'teven know yet.
The fact that you're willing toshare your story and be a
disciple for him is amazing.
I thank you for that.
I know that's not easy.
I know it gets a little easierover time, but it's hard,
especially at the beginning.
Thank you for being there forthem.
We're going to have you on morepodcasts in the future, if
(57:24):
you're all right with that.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
With that, we can do it over line and we'll get you
back up here.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
But, man, I just I'm glad we met.
Yeah, I am too, and I'm gladthat you're here today and I'm
glad that you're the man you are.
Thank you, and I know right nowthat heaven is dancing because
you, you, you sought yourheavenly father and you, you got
reminded of who you are.
Yeah, because you were made onpurpose, for a purpose, and you
were sitting here on a purpose.
Yeah, and it wasn't to be abadge, it's to help people and
(57:51):
to be his hands and feet, andyou do that well, my friend.
Um, thank you absolutely thankyour wife for letting you come
up here, and I know you're awayfrom your family.
Thank you for sharing that.
Um, wow.
Well, thank you guys for uhtuning in and and letting me
share his story, because there'shealing in that, isn't there?
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
It's hard, but there's healing every time you
talk about it.
There really is.
So sharing it in a platformlike this can really bring
healing, not just to you but toothers.
So thank you for that and we'llhave you back on again.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
Thank you.
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices podcast brought to you bythe 1042 Project.
I'm excited to introduce you.
You probably saw him on someother podcasts, but Conor's here
.
We're going to do a one-on-one.
You want to do a one-on-one,bro?
Let's go.
We're going to do a one-on-oneand we're going to have a talk.
Conor has a story that issimilar to a lot of people's,
but his happened in a very shortperiod of time.
(00:22):
Um, I don't know everything ofa story, so I'm gonna learn some
of it right here, but I am soproud of you for having the
courage to come on here andshare your story.
Um.
I think you sharing your storyis going to unlock somebody
else's healing, right, that'swhy we share it.
(00:43):
Right and that's what's cool iswhen we start to share these
things that we held in as asecret, that we held for shame.
I think it.
They need first responders,need other first responders
being willing to stand up andsay and verbalize what we're
about to talk about the uglyparts, because they're there.
We can either address them orwe can keep hiding from them.
I don't know know about you.
(01:03):
I'm tired of seeing watchingfirst responders kill themselves
.
I'm tired of watching familiesdestroyed.
I'm tired of watchingchildren's going through
divorces and marriages and homesbeing destroyed.
I'm tired of addictions.
I'm tired of us firstresponders eating each other up
and not having grace for eachother.
I'm tired of it because it heldme back so many years to get
(01:28):
help, and I'm sure it held youback a little bit, but you had
the courage to to reach out forhelp.
So I'll just dive into a littlebit of your story and let's
just kind of set set the tonehere.
Tell us a little bit about youand how you went from Kansas to
now you're in Iowa talking on apodcast, because I doubt, when
(01:50):
you started your police career,when they pinned your badge on,
you're like, I hope, in a fewyears I'm on a podcast talking
about um, the trauma I wentthrough and how I about lost it
all.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, so I started and well, I went to the Marine
Corps right out of high schooland I did that and then, once I
got done there, went into lawenforcement in Olathe in Kansas.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I like how he says he did that.
Like I was in Marines.
Like I did that, like I visitedthat place, it was cool, like
you're the freaking Marines man.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That's awesome it was a.
It was its own unique challenge, and one thing I'll say is that
everything I've done in lifehas had a hidden meaning.
There's a lot that's happenedto me that it's weird to say and
when you tell it to peoplethey're confused.
(02:38):
But I've been through a lot ofstuff I'd never want anyone to
go through but it's shaped meand molded me into who I am
today and I think that's reallythe big part I have to cling on
to.
So I had a lot of stuff in theMarine Corps that was unexpected
and had a lot of stuff inchildhood that was unexpected,
(02:59):
that really, really I held.
I had I mean, like I said, I'man open book, so I'll go back
even farther had had sexualabuse as a eight-year-old and
from someone close enough to ourfamily.
(03:19):
That just made it verydifficult.
There's a different dynamicthere and I spent 10 years up
until I was 18, just hating,hating what had happened to me,
hating the person who had donethat and led to a lot of just
(03:42):
dark times in my childhood anddon't remember a times in my
childhood and don't remember aton of my childhood.
I'm realizing, the more that Iget into my adult life, that
there's a lot there that Ireally can't think back on
without some assistance.
There's obviously memoriesthere, but they're just, they're
(04:06):
not the ones that pop up when Igo back to it.
So, yeah, and that's been itsown journey.
You know, I spent, like I said,ten years working through the
hatred and and, honestly, justthe spirit of revenge and
wanting to take back what wasmine.
(04:28):
So that's actually what led meinto the marine corps.
Uh, was revenge.
Pretty much.
I genuinely was.
I wanted to join the military inorder to learn how to do what I
needed to do to take care ofthis person that had had harmed
(04:49):
me as a child, and so, obviously, I decided to go the hardest
route with the Marine Corps, andthere was a sense of pride
there.
With you know they're the bestof the best when it comes to the
military.
With you know they're the bestof the best when it comes to the
(05:11):
military, and, and so I I wentinto that and realized very
quickly you know, the lord justworked on my heart as I was
going through boot camp that Iwas doing it for the wrong
reasons.
Um, you got to share the gospelthere with people.
Boot camp was such a uniqueexperience.
I unfortunately watched someonetry and commit suicide and that
(05:37):
led to its all stuff that I'vecarried for a long time, and
then had someone that wassupposed to be an example and a
leader and attacked methroughout that physically.
I think back on that and ifthey hadn't been pulled off they
(06:01):
probably would have tried tokill me in that moment and so
there's a lot there that justkind of broke down who I was and
what I was doing and why I wasdoing it.
And so I got that from from bootcamp completely changed not
this innocent kid that I've been, not this innocent kid that
(06:31):
I've been, you know, putting outthere to people and just what
it did was reshaped who I was,who I thought I was, and who the
Lord was to me and my faith isa huge component to me and
through all that hard work justfound a spirit of forgiveness.
So I actually got to go andmeet this person Really, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Wow, that's not bad.
Yeah, so close enough, are yougoing?
To talk about this.
Yes, okay, good, yes, closeenough.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yes yeah, close enough that I was able to set up
a meeting with him and justexplain that I knew what had
happened as a kid, that becauseI hadn't told anybody up to this
point at all, I had just heldit in and was able to talk about
(07:25):
that with him and just forgivehim for what was done, not
(07:46):
knowing whether I could rememberand all of the second guessing
that had gone on in their headand self-destructive behaviors
and attempts on their own lifeand different things because of
it.
And seeing the change in thatperson even till now, being able
to see that, has been just anincredible, like it's a god
thing.
(08:06):
absolutely 100 percent you wereable to forgive him yeah, I
wasn't yeah, it's throughthrough me that they got a lot
of it.
But, um, yeah, I mean I don'thave any explanation when people
ask me other than god gave methe ultimate forgiveness and
grace and how many things thatI've done, continue to do and
(08:28):
that he's able to forgive me.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know what's stopping me so, dude, that says
a lot about your character rightthere.
Seriously, like I just learneda lot about you.
You're a standout dude man,thank you, wow.
So then you go from Marines tohow the heck did you end up in
uniform?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, so when I was 14, my brother went in to a
neighboring city that I ended upstarting with and it was always
one of those jobs that had alot of people in my life that
were were law enforcement that Irespected, that I looked up to
as a kid but I never knew how toget there.
(09:10):
It's that like mystical jobthat you just don't know the
process and so once my brotherdid it.
It's like okay it can't be, youknow.
But you know we were, we werehomeschooled, there was a
certain level of like what isthe?
Process for a homeschooler toget into that kind of work, same
(09:32):
thing with the marine corps,and having to come up with all
these things that you know wemight not have had, and and so
once he did that I was prettysure, sure, that's the route I
wanted to go.
So I started there.
Let's see, I would have turned21 in December of 2001.
(09:58):
And then started, let's see,started in March of I think it
was March of 21.
I mean, it might be my years.
Mixed up, it all blendstogether.
Got on with Olathe, had a buddyfrom Church that still works
there that I got to do a coupleride-alongs with, and just
(10:22):
really good department verysolid.
Yeah, I mean, mean, it wasalways something I knew I wanted
to do.
And then going there, even tothis day, although I'm not a
part of it anymore very soliddepartment and training wise and
taking care of their people.
They, they, they care andthey'll follow through with what
(10:43):
they say they're going to.
Yeah, so got started and wentto the academy.
That went really well, and thenwent into patrol, got started
and immediately you know theytalk about people being magnets
(11:05):
for certain things oh yeah, itwas pretty evident that that was
just my lane.
I had the nose to sniff it outand I had a passion to go get
people who were doing bad things.
I got into quite a bit of stuffand before I was out of field
(11:26):
training had already gonethrough the process of um.
We had a lady that we werelooking for and ended up finding
her, you know, in a, in afreezer in her basement, and
that is something I'll neverforget um, a smell and a view
(11:49):
that I'll always remember andand just set the tone for
there's a certain level of like,what's actually going to happen
out here, what are we actuallygoing to see or get into?
And so that was kind of thefirst real major.
All right, we're in it.
(12:10):
And this is real, it's not TV,exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Like you can prepare for it and compare it for it and
think you're ready.
But this was the real one.
It's like whoa yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, I feel like you're living a movie at that
movie at that it does.
And you know, always tellpeople is like the last place I
wanted to look because I knew ifthere was somewhere she was
that was going to be it.
So dealt with that um, takingthe suspect back to to jail and
just sitting in silence withthem for so long and no remorse
(12:43):
at all, and then not gettingcharged for certain reasons and
having to continually havecontacts with that person on the
street, made it my life goal toarrest that person as many
(13:03):
times as I could, and I got likefour or five, so I was pretty
happy with that hey, man, ifthey're breaking the law,
they're breaking the law exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
We just happen to be there every time.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I don't tell you yeah um, but yeah, I mean I just had
that and then once I got out onmy own, really like I wanted to
go and get bad people off thestreet and I was a big warrants
guy.
I like wasn't on anyspecialized unit for it or
(13:36):
anything, but that was um, itwas like easy pickings, it's
like yeah.
I know where you're at, and ifI don't, I'm gonna figure it out
yeah and uh, so I'd I'd go pickup quite a few of those.
Um, I think my last year I hadlike 96 arrests and about 70
percent of them were guys withfelonies and it was a, it was a
(14:00):
good time, um, but through thatI got into a lot.
I saw a lot, had a lot of kindof once in career calls that you
know you get back to thestation and your sergeant's
patting you on the back like man.
I've never seen that before.
And in the moment there's thisculture of like yes, like I
(14:23):
could, you know, check that offmy bingo card for for this
career.
And the more I got into it, themore I realized like that's not
something that I was superproud of, like I was proud of
the work I did, but what camealong with it was was just
really starting to wear on meand, you know, dealt with some,
(14:45):
uh, back-to-back high schoolersthat um were killed on the
highway and you know one oneboth trying to kill themselves,
but you know one running acrosstrying to get hit and dealing
with the aftermath of that on ayou know quarter mile long scene
(15:08):
and then won the next weekjumping off of a bridge and that
was my first death notificationthat I gave to his family those
are so hard they are, and itwas a.
It was a local officer's son ohgeez, um, who had actually heard
(15:28):
it on the radio and I guess wasconcerned enough about you know
where his son was at mentally,that uh, he had already started
making his way home, so met himand, um, just so many of those
like when people talk about thescream of a mother, and uh, you
know the, just the passion thatwas felt there I always call it
(15:53):
like a blood curdling cry likeyou can't, there's no other.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It's like a guttural yeah you don't?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
it's hard to get that noise out of your ears.
It is, it is and uh, so I spent, you know, about three hours
within that evening waiting fordetectives and everyone to wrap
up and come over and, um, it'slike the most useless feeling
and I had to deal with that alot and I still one of the
toughest parts of what I lookback on is, you think about, you
(16:23):
know, being this person behindthe badge and not just making it
a badge but having humanitybehind it.
And that was the one momentthat I felt like I didn't have
anything to offer.
And, um, you know, they had, um, another child who had cancer
his whole life and had beenfighting that, and it was just,
(16:45):
it was a tough, tough scene tobe a part of, and but I moved on
and, well, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
but I told myself, we tell myself yeah we tell you
yeah, we moved on, we got itwhipped.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And I didn't realize you know how much weight that
had until I was just driving thestreets on a midnight patrol
and I don't think I'd everreally thought about where their
house was.
But I turned on that street andimmediately just felt the
weight of a two-month-old callcome right back.
So that's kind of what startedopening my mind and eyes up to.
(17:21):
Okay, this stuff I'm seeing isnot the normal stuff that people
you know, regular, everydaypeople, deal with.
Obviously, cops andfirefighters are a different
story.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
But you're new and young, so are you feeling like I
can't?
I just got to keep going andtoughing through it, because
everybody else is fine, because.
I don't know for me, whenyou're the young one, you kind
of just keep your mouth shutright.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And you kind of mock what everybody else not mock.
You mirror what everybody elseis doing, like yeah, I mean
there's this level.
You know the Marine Corps, likeI think that was also kind of
the same time where I realizedhow much they'd really changed
my thought process.
And you know they talk aboutbreaking you down, building you
back up into what they want youto be.
But that was kind of the firsttime that I realized like I was
emotionally detached from thingswhen I needed to be and because
(18:12):
you know there you're taught to.
You know if you lose the guynext to you, you got to keep
moving because the mission's infront of you.
And so there was a level oflike I just gotta bottle it up,
and you know I did that for 10years with my childhood stuff.
And so there was a level oflike I just gotta bottle it up,
and you know I did that for 10years with my childhood stuff.
And so there was a level ofjust all right, I know the
process, even though I knew theharm that holding it in for 10
(18:35):
years will do, yeah, but there'sjust this repetition and muscle
memory to okay, let's, let'sshove it down, start the next,
next shift, and time heals allwounds right.
Yep, it'll go away.
No, it doesn't at all Just pourbooze on it.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
That's what I did.
That helps a lot.
Yeah, nod, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I am thankful that that was not a vice for me, but
mine was go get into stuffthat's twice as dangerous.
I think it was about the timethat I started really putting
myself in some precarious spots,and so I started kind of giving
(19:13):
some thought to getting helpand then I don't know how much
longer it was ended up gettinginto an officer-involved
shooting.
That was just a crazy.
Had a buddy on a stop that hadstopped somebody and he had
(19:34):
talked to a random member of thepublic that had come by in
their own car and asked for helpand then drove off.
And so he was.
I think he'd been out on hisown for about two weeks and so
he asked for backup and and Iwas pretty close by Um so once I
was pulling up that, that uhcitizen returned to the scene
(19:59):
and ended up getting out of hiscar with a knife and coming at
both of us, so we both.
It all leads into a lot of stuff, but when I got put on
administrative leave, I washelping out detectives with
(20:20):
reports and organization.
As a curious mind, I went backand read those reports because I
had never seen them yet.
They broke it down because Ihad no clue still on what the
timeline was.
But from the time that I gotout of my car to firing my
(20:41):
weapon was four seconds and thatblew my mind because there's so
much that happened in that timeand Spidey Sense is a real
thing Like the world did slowdown and I experienced a lot of
different things than what fourseconds makes it seem like.
So, um, you know, we both bothended up firing and uh tried to
(21:09):
to work on that guy.
It unfortunately lost him andum, so that kind of started the
process of, you know, being onadmin leave for three months
waiting to get cleared and, um,a lot, of, a lot of access to
reports.
Um, this is the one thing thatI, you know, I've talked to my
(21:34):
department and have made surenever happens again is that they
put me in charge of sortinghomicide files.
Oh geez.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
What are we doing to each other?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, I know, it's like we say it now and it's like
how does that make any sense?
Here it happens.
And with that came, you know,the access to every homicide
file from 100 years ago till now, ever since they started.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
In cop brain.
You're digging into it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah.
So you know, in that momentwent through all of them
pictures and all that'ssomething.
(22:23):
It's not a regret that I have,but it is something that got a
lot more faces to my nightmaresand all the things that I have
to deal with.
And so that was kind of one ofthose things that I talked to my
chief after.
I said, hey, like once I was ina better it was actually after
I went to the retreat that Iwent to that I went back.
I said that's something thatnever to that.
I went back and I said that'ssomething that never like that
can never happen again.
Because I was in a vulnerablespot and not realizing it and uh
(22:44):
just piling on, keep it comingand um.
So that was about three months.
I got cleared in September of23.
Uh, the shooting happened inJune of 23 and um went back for
about three months Septembertill the end of the year and I
(23:06):
was on fire Like I was in threeor four felony stops a week.
You know know, getting realclose to um, getting in more
another shooting, um likehunting people down, that that
had, you know, just shot roundsoff at people and um like I
didn't really have the uhability to refrain from going
(23:31):
after it it was like I'vealready been here and I've
proven myself and I don't wantsomeone else to have to go
through what I'm dealing with.
Yeah, so I might as well justadd it on.
Yeah, um, but that led to avery dangerous mindset.
Very, it wasn't haphazard, butit was bordering on just being
(23:52):
unsafe for those around me andwhere I used to do a lot of prep
work and learning about who Iwas going after.
I started just, you know,nonchalant, let's go after
somebody and see what happens,um.
So then I went to my first orlike my six month checkup with
our our therapist and, uh, wentto her and immediately just
(24:17):
broke down realizing where I wasat.
I had like two weeks off forChristmas and that was the first
time.
You know, kept, obviously, yougot to keep your your work email
on your phone so you don't missanything.
And you know all of the groupchats are going off even when
you're not at work.
And, yep, that two weeks wasthe first time in my career that
(24:40):
I had ever like I just shuteverything off because I knew I
wasn't in state, I wasn'tanywhere that I could help.
Anything that went on.
I wasn't going to come in on anextra shift if they needed it,
so it was.
I turned it all off and it wasthe first time that I realized
like, and there is a huge weighton my shoulders and mind and
this is the first time I feellike I've been able to relax on
(25:02):
the weekend.
Um, so we, we just that was kindof the start to feeling like,
okay, I'm not normal, I'm notdoing, I need to go talk to
somebody.
And then I had my six-monthappointment post-shooting and
(25:27):
that led to going to thisretreat that we were talking
about earlier, wcpr.
Thankfully, it was only like amonth away and just led to an
entire new process of healingand, um, yeah, so it was and
you're married at this time,right yeah?
So I've been married for sixyears.
So um got married while I wasstill in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Okay, so your wife's been with you through all this
kiddos.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
We've got one.
Yeah, kiddos, we've got one.
Yeah, so we actually.
She's about 16 months old and Iall of this was happening about
the time she was being born, soI got to spend the first eight
months at home with her, whichwas that's a blessing, yeah,
huge blessing yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
That's that's when, when the babies bond with us the
most.
It's most important for you tobe there as dad.
So that was a blessing.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, and so a kid comes intothis world and you're already
struggling at this point.
Are you talking to your wifeabout that?
Are you talking to anybody atthis point?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
So I have this issue that I am still, to this day,
working through.
My wife is extremely strong.
She can take a lot more thanI've ever given her, and that's
the tough part is that I want toprotect her.
(26:53):
I don't go into a lot of detailwith certain things How's?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
that working out.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
We have a balance that I.
It took us a while, um, tofigure out really what that
looked like, what ourconversation looked like.
A big issue that I I mean, Istill deal with it is just
short-term memory loss and uh,so that was a big thing.
You know, she, she would thinkthat I wasn't listening to her
(27:26):
and it's like I just forgot,like I don't even remember that
conversation.
Yeah.
My head's somewhere else.
Um, my sleep was terrible.
I was was.
You know, I'm on medication now, which has helped a lot me too
and that's its own stigma.
Like I, I was the last personthat I ever thought would get on
medication, but I've seen thedifference on and off and then
(27:50):
now back on yeah and uh also,don't cut cold turkey.
That's a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Never.
Yeah, that's a bad idea.
Your brain goes into like thesebrain zaps like every once in a
while.
It's weird.
Don't ever do it.
They think and actually likereally hurt yourself.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, getting off those medicines yeah, so I um
through that, like we, we kindof built this process of how we
talk to each other and reallyit's just her having a ton of
grace for me and not gettingupset when I forget something or
um, just completely don't evenhear her talking, um, and just
(28:26):
understanding, like my brain hasa lot going on and there's a
lot up there that she can't see,and so that's where we're kind
of at with that, but there'sstill a level of of I keep
certain things that I know aretough.
Um, you know, one of the thingsI struggled a lot with during
(28:50):
that time was just suicidalthoughts.
And um time was just suicidalthoughts and um, that was like
because of my faith and and whatI believe there, I don't
believe in suicide as a way out,but I was still having the
thoughts of it and so it wasthis internal battle I was
(29:12):
already having with myself ofhow do I go about, you know,
telling someone I love that I'vebeen thinking you know every
day about killing myself and howto do it, Especially your wife,
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, it's the hardest yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, it's like she's not going to want to leave me
at the house alone.
Yeah.
And realistically it probablywould have been a good thing to
have told her.
But there was like I don't knowif it was shame or just trying
to be super protective of herand and her view of how things
were going in my journey to, youknow, trying to get back to
(29:47):
this new normal that I had, andso I just kind of kept that you
know buried down, and theretreat was the first time that
I had ever opened up about thatThought.
I was the only person we all dowho had ever dealt with it, and
so I started talking about thefirst night I was there.
(30:09):
And then they ask you know, hey, everyone in this room who's
ever had that raise your hand?
And there was every singleperson, yeah, and so that was my
first like, okay, I can trustthe people here and they know
what I'm going through.
And, um, it scared me more thananything, you know, the same
(30:29):
thing, like when I was talkingabout the thoughts I was having
towards this person who hadabused me as a kid Like.
Those thoughts scared me,because at what level do you
become comfortable with havingthem but not acting on them?
Right.
Um, and so it's a, it's aprocess and you know there are.
(30:51):
There are things that, um, thatI bring up in therapy, that
stay in therapy, but I've triedto open up a lot more.
We have good conversation mywife and I, but she's very
patient and gracious to give metime and space and work through
(31:13):
it.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We put our families through a lot, don't we?
We put our families through alot and sometimes we dump it on
the ones that are closest to us.
I know I put my ex-wife througha lot stuff she didn't deserve
because some, for whateverreason, it's like we take it out
on the people closest to us andnot on the, you know, the
people that should and, and somany of our spouses and family
members are are struggling alongwith the first responder.
(31:37):
Yeah.
And and.
As a husband and as a dad,sometimes that guilt and shame
comes in, because they're likethe people you're supposed to be
protecting the most, like yourwife and your kids.
You feel like you can't beenough.
For me it was.
I never felt enough.
A good enough dad, a goodenough husband?
A good enough officer?
A good enough husband, a goodenough officer?
Like the devil just constantlytells us that we're not enough
(31:57):
yeah and it comes after us.
We struggle with our mentalhealth and then, for me, it got
to a point where it was, youknow my brain, where the enemy
would be telling myself I'mbetter off, they're better off
without me um they'd be betteroff.
I was dead and you start tobelieve those thoughts.
I mean, I went out and boughtaccidental death insurance just
because I knew I was going tokill myself in a car.
Like we start to do thesethings, that gets ugly, man.
(32:21):
And hearing your story fromsomebody, your age and what you
have gone through is and towhere you are now, it's
inspiring because you had twopaths you could have taken and I
know how hard it is to go downthe healing path because
sometimes staying on the hurtpath sometimes it's easier
(32:43):
because we get used to it there.
We're used to being numb, we'reused to being full of anger and
hate.
We can deal with that.
Sometimes, when the emotionscome in like love and compassion
, sometimes we don't know whatto do with that because we're
not used to it.
Sometimes our loved ones cantry to love us well, but because
we feel like we're hated byeverybody else in the world,
because you deal with peoplethat hate you every day, it's
(33:03):
hard to feel that love.
And for me, when you go to numbyour emotions like for me it
was hydrocodone, pills andalcohol and other things when
I'm losing my train of thoughthere as soon as I start to talk
about things I've gone through.
But uh, help me out, when was Iat?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Just talking about, like, the different paths, that
that, uh, to go down, yeah, togo down.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
And it's hard for me.
I kept trying to pick thatright path and it's hard because
you, you start to go down thatright path and you start to do a
little good and people start tothink you're, you're finally
there.
And you start to think you'rethere and then you have that
next call or that next, or you,you have that.
You go down that street and itall re-triggers it and then you
fall back to the.
You feel like you fall back tothe bottom again and now you're
looking back up going.
I got to get all the way backup there yeah and you get to
(33:51):
this point like what's the point?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
yeah, I think you know that's been one of the
toughest hurdles to jump whenworking through my incidents,
you know, with uh, with myclinician is this idea that,
because I have this history of,you know, just shoving it,
bottling it up, keeping it quietand moving on and trying to
(34:15):
work away from that?
But there's still this battlebetween, okay, this stuff that
you know, I've forgiven thisperson who wronged me as a child
and I've moved on from it, butit, you know, that's that's what
I'm working through now is, uh,just all of that and going back
and experiencing it again.
The first few times was, like,what am I doing?
(34:48):
Like am I making it worse onmyself to go back and reopen
these wounds that I would haveconsidered healed, but there's
still a lot of scar tissue therethat had to be dealt with, and
so that's where, trusting thatprocess and the people that know
what they're talking about andthat God's put in my life, um,
you know, I'm super thankfulthat I only have ever had to go
to one person as a clinician andnot, you know, not shop around
(35:11):
to find the person that made theright fit.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, sounds like you found it right away.
That's, that's great.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah and uh.
So through that learning that,um, that there is beneficial
things to going back andre-experiencing.
And then I worked a lot in EMDRthrough that process, um, which
was exhausting physically andemotionally, and just working
(35:41):
through it, experiencing it likeI was there again, um, reliving
every bit of it, to thenswitching to art, which I don't
know if you've heard of it ordone it or was ART it's
accelerated resolution.
Therapy.
I don't think I have it'sbasically I've only done like
two or three sessions of it, butit's slightly condensed version
(36:05):
um of EMDR.
It uses different techniquesand I love it and and I wouldn't
use it on every incident thatI've had to work through but
this one was fantastic.
It goes from being able to takethese images in your head that
(36:25):
you have and work through themand then the next session we go
through and we see them againand we get to cover them up with
our own image that we we wantto replace.
And even now when I think backon it like I know what I would
(36:46):
title the old images.
So when I think about those, Istill like I can't see them it's
the new stuff that I'vereplaced it with, and so, yeah,
it's just, it's incredible, likeI know that God's design for
the brain is extremely complexand having people that have
(37:07):
given time and effort andknowledge and experience into
learning and building thesetechniques that just compliment
his handiwork is incredible.
Like everybody thinks, it'svoodoo magic right.
That's like no, like we'redesigned this way and for us to
(37:27):
be able to like even just thatlittle inkling into how it works
, we're able to get these thingsthat just help so much with
healing and uh.
So it's been an awesome process.
Like I think that's why I'm atwhere I'm at right now is just
all of the the work I mean it'sbeen two years of every other
week just going in and grindingit out and uh, and being able to
(37:52):
see the difference and peoplesee it in me as well.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
And that's when, that's when it really starts to
feel good is when other peoplenotice it, right.
Yeah.
Cause you start to see thefruits of all this hard work of
healing, and when people startto start to respond, it's a good
feeling.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yeah, and that's where that that fire of helping
others starts to really KindleCause it's like when you're
hurting and feel like you got amountaintop you got to climb,
there's not a lot to give, eventhough that's who we are as
first responders.
But once you finally get overthat hump and there's, it's not
to say there aren't more peaksto climb later, but you start to
(38:32):
get that refreshing feelingagain and it's like all right,
let's go do this, let's go help.
And uh, that's why I lovegiving of my time to that
retreat that I went to and, likeI have not been to one that I
didn't get, to see an awesomechange in somebody and continue
to see it and it's like the mostrewarding thing and you go and
(38:54):
volunteer.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So you went there and then now you go back and
volunteer.
Yeah.
You've gone back three times, Ithink you said in the last
podcast that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
And I just started a new job in February.
That's completely unrelated,and they are backing me a
hundred percent.
Like you know, I asked for forno pay.
I just want time away, andthey're more than willing to
give that and and know thatthat's where my passion's at wow
, what a blessing.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, it is.
Do you see yourself sometime,maybe in life, doing this
full-time helping people?
Speaker 3 (39:26):
uh, yeah, I'm actually in the process.
I haven't done a ton of workinto it, but um need to get
going back to school.
I don't have any college, butyou don't need college.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Don't go back to school.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, I've thought about going back and getting my
license professional counselingand being able to do that in our
local area, and there's acouple of people who are really
good, but there's an abundanceof people who still need it.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, so it's a long process, but Well, when someone
like you can become a therapistto start helping other first
responders, man, that's likedouble superpower, man, yeah,
because you you're a therapistand you've been in their shoes,
you know right, that's powerful.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, and that's the thing, like there are a lot of
people who have gone to it, whoare now working through that
process to do it themselves, and, yeah, it's a unique position
to be put in.
And again, I think I said itearlier, but that's where I'm
(40:28):
appreciative of each thingthat's happened, because it'll
lead me to a different path thanI could have ever made on my
own.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, like I mean I've never.
I people say like would youundo it all?
I mean I wouldn't want to hurtthe people I hurt, but it's the
same time.
What I went through is createdat first.
I am now, which is now full ofcompassion and understanding and
grace which I didn't havebefore.
Because when you get, when youstart to get healing for your
mental health and you startrealizing that there are
brothers and sisters that loveon you, that they're not going
(40:58):
to treat you like you're garbage, and you start to get healing
and you start to feel that it'san instant thing that happens
where you want to give that tosomebody else and that's
biblical right.
I mean, god calls us tomultiply.
He helps us.
We then go out and disciple forhim and help others.
(41:19):
I love the.
I love that so many of ourfirst responders and just like
you, could really easily justwalk away from the field and
never look back, but the factthat you're willing to take what
the story you've gone throughand I know you've only shared a
small part of it.
There's a lot more.
You didn't um to be able totake all of that and yeah, it's
(41:42):
tough.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I mean even to this day.
I wish I was still out there.
Yeah.
Like that's where I want to be,but I know it's not good for me,
Like I've been able to,thankfully, have the people
around me and in my circle tofigure out that if I was to
continue down that path, it wasa it was not a healthy one, and
(42:04):
and yeah, I mean my heart'sstill there and I still have the
skillset.
And it's unfortunate that thethings that happened did, and at
the time they did, but it'sit's opened all these doors that
have allowed, allowed me tomeet people like you, meet
people from all over the UnitedStates, um, that I'm still in
(42:24):
contact with and and stillmaking a difference in their
life.
That honestly to me as more ofan impact than I ever did on the
street.
So it's, it's a way to reframeit and I am all here for it dude
, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, because you and I look at each other right now.
Neither one of us should behere yeah.
I should have been dead a longtime ago.
I've tried several times.
You've tried, you've thoughtabout it yeah, for sure yeah,
you know, I've got five kids alltogether and sometimes, even
when you have kids, sometimesthat that's not even enough to
make you not want to end yourlife, because in a way, we're
(43:01):
telling ourselves we're helpingour kids by doing it.
And I'm so glad you are here,I'm so glad that your wife still
has a husband, that your childstill has a dad.
I know every day is not abreeze.
It's not like you get betterwith your mental health and all
of a sudden you check that boxand now it's all roses.
It's not, it's an up and down,but what you're doing, by the
(43:24):
way you're healing, is showingyour family, your wife, and
it'll show your kid one or two.
It'll teach your child and it'llteach other kids how to recover
from trauma, how to recoverfrom trauma, how to cope with
trauma, how to deal with hardthings, how we talk about our
feelings, how it's okay to openup about the thoughts that are
(43:45):
inside our head to somebody else, because as we as dads and moms
, as we do that, our kids arewatching and I learned that when
I caused my kids a lot of pain,but I learned that me working
to get sober and to do all thatum impacted my kids because I
(44:08):
know and I hope that when theyhave times in their life that
they can realize, I hope thatthey realize and I think to do
that they don't have to hold inthose thoughts.
If you're having thoughts ofharming yourself or you're
having thoughts of of any ofthose things that just get ugly
in our life, I want to.
I want my kids to walk that outin a healthy way and I think
the best way we can do that isby showing them as dads as, and
(44:30):
do that is by showing them asdads, as husbands.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
So it's pretty amazing.
Yeah, I'm thankful that I justhad a little baby at that point,
but I have nine nieces andnephews and they're old enough
to understand and that'shonestly something I'm still
trying to navigate.
I know kids are extremelyforgiving and they understand
more than you give them creditfor, Um, but that's it's tough
(44:55):
to navigate.
You know, they all knew I was acop and I don't know how many
of them know I'm not anymore.
You know, I'm sure the olderones have kind of figured out
that's not what I'm doing, but Idon't know if any of them know
why, or that's hard, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
It is Because it's hard explaining to people why
you're not in it anymore.
It feels shameful, it feels youfeel weak.
It's, it's.
It's so hard.
You feel like that's youridentity.
Now it's gone, right.
Who are you now?
Speaker 3 (45:22):
yeah, and you know I I tried to make such a a point
to not make it my identity youknow, like I did not hang out
with people outside of work onthe weekends because you know
I'd had people for you know, mywhole life telling me, like,
when you get into that job,don't do that.
Yeah, they're not your family.
Yeah, like you need to haveseparation from it.
(45:44):
And so having that, you know,came with its its positives and
its negatives, but it made iteasier to like I had a great
support group outside of work,which was the plus.
But yeah, then you realize, ohwow, like actually there was
(46:06):
quite a bit of myself that wasin that job and just perspective
.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
But what I had to learn was that our identities
aren't our bad.
Once I gave my life to Christand started learning that our
identities are in Him.
When we think about ourself-worth, our self-worth comes
from Him and that's who we needto be balancing it off of.
Our identity comes from Him.
Our identity.
Anything outside of that where,if we're not getting it from
him, we're chasing, we'rechasing something that's
unhealthy yeah and but thosehealth unhealthy ways.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Sometimes is the easiest way, because booze works
, sex works I mean all thisstuff that I had to help people
(46:57):
was never fulfilled.
On patrol it's so quick, youknow you get there on their
worst day, you sort things outand you have to move on.
And I think that's been one ofthe coolest changes is that,
like this gospel truth that Iwant to proclaim and the love of
Christ that I want to show,being in the position that I was
(47:19):
put in and now, having walkedthe path that I have and now
getting to go back, I'm now ableto be in this person's worst
day, but in a completelydifferent context.
I'm not there to fix theproblem, I'm there to walk
through it with them and I'vebeen able to share the gospel
more at these retreats that I goback to than I ever get the
(47:41):
opportunity on a call forservice.
And again, that's where itsucks to have had to go through
what I did to get to that point,but I wouldn't give it up for
anything.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, and it's made it who you are.
You know and the things youwent through as a child, the
things you went through in yourcareer, especially as a child,
god did not want that to happento you.
He did not want that to happento you.
Some people say, oh God, no,god did not want that to happen
to you.
But because God does give humanbeings free will and we are
very hurt people, we are ugly toeach other Because God gives us
(48:16):
free will.
If he doesn't give us free will, we're programmed robots and
that's not love.
So with love comes free willand we do things that are just
ugly to each other.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I mean, we live in a sinful world and sinful
creatures until he's regeneratedus.
And yeah, it's a, it's a worldwe're in.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
For me is when I was rock bottom, I realized that
that's a pretty good foundationto start building on.
I mean, when, when I, when,when Jesus is all I had, I
realized that's all I needed.
I lost the house, I lost myfamily, I lost it all, and and
and I hate, I hate the pain Icaused to my family.
But I am glad that I'm heretoday and that I was able to get
through that.
Um cause I was very lost, likeyou, yeah, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
It's like you said earlier, it shows.
It shows those who are aroundyou who you are and what you can
go through.
And, and you know, if you makeit your goal to continually
point that back to, it's allbecause of God and what he's
done in us.
Like that's talk about a lightshining.
You know that is the brightestthing out there, yep.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
So yeah, cause I didn't, you know, we.
It's amazing how God can useour pain for purpose.
It blows my mind sometimes thatthe things I hid from all those
years, all the guilt and shame,the addictions, all those
things are now what makes meunique and allowed to walk
alongside other people.
It feels weird that our, thebad things we did, are now.
(49:43):
You know what I mean.
But God does that.
That's what he does Well yeah,and you know.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
that's why I believe in being so open about
everything that has happened,because you know, if I would
have had somebody when I wasgrowing up that talked, about.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
You know abuse as a kid that happened to like.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I didn't know as a little kid what all that meant,
and you know if it was bad, likeyou just don't.
That's not something aneight-year-old should have to go
through.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
And so being open, like I don't want to hide those
things that hurt they still hurtand it's not fun to talk about
them but knowing that there's alot of other people who have
gone through things that aresimilar, that then we can bond
(50:41):
and like I have an answerbecause of the truth that's in
scripture that I can share andlead them to.
It's like that is why Godallowed that to happen, because
there's benefit to it.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
And all we have to do is show up with our fishes and
loaves and he'll feel he'll feedthe 5,000.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
We don't have to do.
All we have to do is show up.
The specialness of ourorganization is simply, we show
up for each other.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Well, yeah, there's so many times that I get in my
own head about man.
What do I say to this person?
What do they need to hear rightnow?
How am I supposed to help themthrough this?
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
And it was the moment that I realized just give it to
God and let him speak throughyou.
And most of the time I talk fora while and have no clue what I
said.
Me too.
Then I go back and either talkto him or listen to it and I'm
like, oh, that made some goodpoints there.
He really did, you know, bringforth what needed to be heard
(51:45):
and help that person in some way.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
That's pretty cool and I broke these out earlier.
I use these a lot.
When I talk to people.
They call them Russian nestingdolls, I call them action
figures.
But go back to your childhoodand kind of what we talked about
.
Right, a lot of times we're alltrying to address this person,
the big doll or action figure,and trying to get this one to
change, and this is what I wastrying to do.
I was trying to get this one tochange and this is what I was
(52:09):
trying to do.
I was trying to cover paint allover this, make it look better,
try to cover it all up, butwhat I didn't realize is I had
to start opening.
God showed me this in prayerone day.
I had to start opening these upand unpacking all these other
action figures or dolls insidethis, because five-year-old
Daniel was still dealing withabandonment and abandoning this
and some of the things thathappened in my past.
At this age I dealt with thisand there's all these things in
(52:31):
my life of abandonment and otherissues that had changed me that
I had no idea.
And we can't just go and startfrom here.
We have to unpack this.
We have to and we have to do itin a safe way, and there's a
safe way to do that and that's,you know, like our organization,
it's sitting down with somebodywho you trust and talking about
(52:51):
these things and putting truthto them, because we take on our
identities when we go throughtrauma, when things are done to
us, we take on these identitiesand we hold those throughout our
whole life.
And if we can speak truth tothat moment in your life and
make you understand that you, asa kid, didn't deserve that, you
did nothing wrong to deservethat God didn't want that to
happen to you, when we can goback and address what happened
here and put some truth to ityou did nothing wrong, because a
(53:14):
lot of times you hold guilt andshame of like what?
Maybe I shouldn't.
You did nothing wrong.
We got to go back and get help.
As we get help for that, thatunlocks healing through our
whole life.
Absolutely, because it'schanged.
Now this has been addressed.
Yeah, it's changed.
Now this has been addressed andnow at Unlocked, you have a
clear path to start addressingthis one.
Would you say that's accuratewith you?
Speaker 3 (53:32):
Oh yeah, I mean, when I look back at my
eight-year-old trauma, I wantedto put it away and just be done
with it, but there's so muchthere that I've learned from
going through it.
The fact that that's probablywhy I'm the level of protective
person that I am is because Isee this, this younger version
(53:59):
of myself that has to beprotected.
That wasn't, and being able tofigure out like is that why I am
who I am today, in the way thatI protect my wife from some
stuff that I tell her, is thatthe reason that I had such a
(54:23):
passion to go and hunt these badpeople down?
And it makes more sense to methat that is because in that
moment I had, you know, justinnocence.
I mean, I was sinful, but I wasan eight year old kid.
Yeah.
And and so figuring out, likeall this time, what I really
wish had happened was that I hadsomeone there in that moment to
(54:46):
stop it from happening.
And it's built me into what Iam and you know, each of those
things layers into the next, andthat's, you know, why some of
the stuff in the Marine Corpshas, I think I think because of
that and and where my mind wasat even being molded, and you
(55:09):
know, growing has led to the waythat I hold things and the way
that I experience them is a muchmore personal level than some
people might, and so I havethings that you know it happened
in the Marine Corps thatshouldn't have happened, but
(55:30):
they hold this whole new doublemeaning because the thing that
happened there took me rightback to when I was an eight year
old.
Nope.
And like I feel the weight ofboth now in each other, like I
see them both now simultaneouslyeach other, like I see them
(55:55):
both now simultaneously, and sobeing able to deal with that has
allowed me the process I mean,it's still a long process of
working through each thing.
And you know I have people askme like, does it ever get better
or does it ever go away?
You know, like I'm two and ahalf years, you know past, when
(56:18):
I got in my shooting and I stilldeal with nightmares.
They're not as frequent,thankfully, but part of that's
the medication.
Um, it's always going to bethere, as far as I can tell.
But the things that we learn,the ways that we learn to deal
with things and in the processand recognizing it earlier, and
(56:39):
all of those are how we getbetter.
Yep, it's still there, it'sstill going to come up.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
We're still going to have things that bring it up but
it doesn't control you, correct, and that's the difference that
you get control over thatswitch is being able to
recognize it and address it in ahealthy way.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yep, instead of all these other ways that we were
doing it yeah, wow, man, you'reuh, you're a miracle.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
I'm glad you're here I said it before but I'm I'm
glad you're still alive and withus, because I know god's got
plans for you that you don'teven know yet.
The fact that you're willing toshare your story and be a
disciple for him is amazing.
I thank you for that.
I know that's not easy.
I know it gets a little easierover time, but it's hard,
especially at the beginning.
Thank you for being there forthem.
We're going to have you on morepodcasts in the future, if
(57:24):
you're all right with that.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
With that, we can do it over line and we'll get you
back up here.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
But, man, I just I'm glad we met.
Yeah, I am too, and I'm gladthat you're here today and I'm
glad that you're the man you are.
Thank you, and I know right nowthat heaven is dancing because
you, you, you sought yourheavenly father and you, you got
reminded of who you are.
Yeah, because you were made onpurpose, for a purpose, and you
were sitting here on a purpose.
Yeah, and it wasn't to be abadge, it's to help people and
(57:51):
to be his hands and feet, andyou do that well, my friend.
Um, thank you absolutely thankyour wife for letting you come
up here, and I know you're awayfrom your family.
Thank you for sharing that.
Um, wow.
Well, thank you guys for uhtuning in and and letting me
share his story, because there'shealing in that, isn't there?
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
It's hard, but there's healing every time you
talk about it.
There really is.
So sharing it in a platformlike this can really bring
healing, not just to you but toothers.
So thank you for that and we'llhave you back on again.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.